February 5, 2025 • 45 mins
In this episode, Julie talks about the California LA wild fires, as well as the new Hateful Conduct policies being employed in 2025 for all META social media products. From the stripping away from hard-fought-for LGBTQIA+ community protections to the end of Facebook third-party fact checking, those in the queer community are facing some fundamental changes that require individuals to make the decision to abandon the META platforms or stick it out and remain present and visible.
Show Notes Links:
GLAAD Response to META Policy Changes
https://glaad.org/releases/meta-anti-lgbtq-hate-speech-dei/
https://transparency.meta.com/policies/community-standards/hateful-conduct/
PSYCHIATRIC RESPONSE TO GENDER DYSPHORIA
https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria
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SAVANNAH HAUK is the author of “Living with Crossdressing: Defining a New Normal” and “Living with Crossdressing: Discovering your True Identity“. While both focus on the male-to-female (mtf) crossdresser, “Defining a New Normal” delves into crossdressing and relationships and “Discovering Your True Identity” looks at the individual crossdressing journey. Her latest achievements are two TEDx Talks, one entitled "Demystifying the Crossdressing Experience" and the other "13 Milliseconds: First Impressions of Gender Expression". Savannah is a male-to-female dual-gender crossdresser who is visible in the Upstate of South Carolina, active in local groups and advocating as a public speaker at LGBTQ+ conferences and workshops across the United States. At the moment, Savannah is working on more books, blogs, and projects focused on letting every crossdresser–young and mature–find their own confidence, expression, identity and voice.
IG @savannahhauk | FB @savannahhauk | FB @livingwithcrossdressing | web @livingwithcrossdressing.com
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JULIE RUBENSTEIN is a dedicated ally to transgender community and the certified image consultant and co-owner of Fox and Hanger. F&H is a unique service for transgender women and male-to-female crossdressers that creates customized virtual fashion and style “lookbooks”. Julie intuitively connects with each client to find them appropriate clothes, makeup, hair, and shape wear all in alignment with their budget, body type, authentic style and unique personality. Julie also provides enfemme coaching and wardrobe support. Julie has made it her life’s work to help MTF individuals feel safe and confident when it comes to their female persona, expression and identity.
IG @Juliemtfstyle | FB @foxandhanger | web @FoxandHanger.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
You're listening to the Fox and the Phoenix podcast
Understanding the Feminine CrossDressing experience.
I'm Savannah Hawk, dual gender male to female cross dresser,
LGBTQ plus advocate, TEDx speaker, and author of the
Living with Cross Dressing book series.
(00:28):
And I'm Julie Rubenstein, proud ally and Co founder of Fox and
hanger.com, a feminine styling and life coaching service for
crossdressers and transgender women.
Hi, Savannah. Hey, Julie, Julie, Julie, how
are you today? I mean, lots is happening in our
world right now. So I'm considering that there's
(00:50):
a giant fire or was at this point, giant fires in Los
Angeles and lots of trauma with the LA fires.
Lots of stuff coming up for me around that.
Living in Northern California, not really being in it in terms
of even be affected by the air. Like, I really, I'm just on the
outside of the experience, but how am I doing?
(01:13):
Strangely fine and a little bit and and a little bit magical and
I can't describe it other than the fact I don't know.
There's a lot happening. I don't even know how to voice
it beyond saying that now that the dust is settled, trust me,
anything can pop up at any moment.
But I'm able to see kernels of positivity and there's a shift
(01:35):
in humanity and in sensitivity that we needed at this time as a
collective. And I will explain, OK, When
this fire first broke, it was shocking.
It was awful for me. I'm very much an empath.
And in the past kind of this, I heard this phrase on Instagram
(01:56):
and it stuck with me. Trauma porn where you sit and
you watch the devastation happenand you don't have much personal
boundaries because not only are you fully signing up for the
whole vortex that is social media, you're literally watching
like you're watching from a window and you're thinking, and
(02:18):
a lot of depletion is coming up,a lot of it.
And so for me, I've learned overthe years just through figuring
out how to survive during these times that I dipped in for a
little bit just to be aware thatI haven't really thought much
about that beyond the self-care I need to do.
Because around me, everyone is responding in this kind of big
(02:40):
collective way. And then it affects people that,
you know, like it may be a colleague who lost all the house
on their street, but like that one house remained.
And then you find out that your good friend who had returned
from a funeral in Los Angeles a week prior, their husband is
still there and they're getting the grieving aunt that just lost
(03:03):
her spouse ready to evacuate. And but they're still there and
they're going to take her to a safe place.
And then they're going to try toget on an airplane, but they
haven't. So they're stuck.
So there's this, the ability to,OK, how do I compartmentalize?
Which I am good at the worry, right?
(03:24):
So I'm going to be texting with my friend and being like, get
prepared to evacuate, get all the stuff.
I get in that mode and then I get a little worried, but then I
like take a shower or take a walk or put my hands in the
soil. There's something that's taking
place in myself that's very animalistic.
I'm usually very in my head, as you know, very in my head.
(03:45):
And there's something that has happened with this disaster that
has forced me to be present. I, and I think this is what it's
like for many of us, be present,be in our bodies.
And I don't really have time forall the in the IT is just called
mish mishegas, all the worry andstress that is going to erode my
brain and it's too easy for me. It's too easy to go there.
(04:08):
So I'm going to counter it really, really hard.
Anyhow, what I want to say, what's unique about this fire
and what I think will bring on this amazing, necessary change
is you've got this population ofroyalty, celebrity royalty that
have had this life of wealth anda privilege and have donated so
(04:31):
much to Haiti, so much to the tsunami.
They had parties, they raise raffles, they use their
privilege in a way of power to get resources over to these not
wealthy communities at the otherside of the world away from
their castle and protected livesand their ability to relate.
And now this kind of tragedy andthis vulnerability is going to
(04:55):
allow them to when there is another devastation happening at
somewhere in the world, they're able to internalize with that
feeling of what it's like to lose everything of to be
stripped from everything they'veever known, something that is a
very, very different experience for them.
And it's just going to cause a global softening that we need.
(05:18):
We needed it before Trump came in.
We're all very up in arms. We needed there to be something
that literally burnt to the ground for people to remember
that we're all people, for fire engines to come from all over,
to go to this castle. It reminds me of Encanto.
There's a scene where that magical house, that magical
(05:40):
place where no one is affected, and fame and fortune and riches,
that house rumbled to the groundand all the community would reap
from the benefits. We're reaping from this idea of
celebrity. We're reaping from this idea of
watching our Instagram and watching Paris Hilton's perfect
life and watching Kathy Hilton and all these celebrities.
(06:00):
And sure, there was the Malibu fire, but you know what?
This has covered more acreage and affected more people.
So it's just, I don't know. And people are surrounding this
land and they're rebuilding it. And these people that are
usually giving out the dough, they're giving out the dough,
but they're also dealing with trauma that makes them relatable
(06:22):
and forced to receive from firefighters from all over the
world. I think it is that are calling
to aid and to service. So I really feel this expansion
and the softening and this vibe that is really beautiful and
makes me feel really in touch with approaching my life with
(06:43):
heart, not with head, with heart.
And for me, when I can make thattransition, I can feel other
people doing that. It feels so profound.
So yeah, that's the little Nuggets.
And now I'm not going to say so much and I'll let you talk, but
I had to get that out. I haven't been able to process
so thank you. I've heard about all the
celebrities who've lost their 14and $15 million homes, or Mel
(07:08):
Gibson was off doing a podcast with Joe Rogan and comes home
and his home is half gone. The only thing I can say on a
personal level is our LA branch for my business, my company's
business, they lost power, lost water because they were
probably, I don't know, maybe 20miles away from the line of the
(07:30):
fire at that time. The people who worked there
obviously live in the area, so they are very close to where
those fires were hitting at the time.
So it's still something for me that it's relatable, but still
separate. I guess it would be the same as
like somebody living through 911who lives in Oregon.
But me being there, 20 miles away from the World Trade
(07:50):
Center, I understand. I can empathize, sympathize with
your situation, but you're not in it.
So I'm not going to be able to be in what's in going through
the heads of people, celebrity, non celebrity people, just be
what they're going through. I couldn't go through what you
went through when they had the fires up in Northern California
where the sky was always red anddark and sooty and I could see
(08:13):
from the pictures you'd send me.But I didn't have first hand
trauma and anxiety of going through it other than through
you. So yeah, it is nice to have
people relating to each other and lifting each other up
regardless of status because there is that thing.
I like what you said about yeah celebrity that usually throw a
party or a fundraiser for something around.
(08:36):
So much money, give so much money to something they have no
idea and they're going to be fine.
Don't get me wrong, they're going to be fine.
So this is very different than in a lot of ways, in a
fundamental way than what happens in less affluent
communities, less populated. There's movement and there's
change. So I know that we have I there
(08:57):
is a topic that I want to get totoday.
I just wanted to just share fromthe state of California my
feelings because I felt like it was timely and I have I had no
choice like I had to. I'm glad.
I'm glad we could be an outlet for you.
And thank goodness, through the magic of editing, when all of
you will hear this episode, it will be as clean as it can get
(09:19):
and know that there was a whole lot more.
I I might keep every word you don't know.
Oh sweetie, I love you. I love you too.
So what else are you bringing tothe table today?
So another thing that happened rather timely, if you will, is I
don't and you might, but I don'thave the exact date that this
(09:41):
happened. OK, maybe I want to say it was
within a week of the fire. It could have been a couple
days. All I know is the two seem very
closely connected and yet separate, so they're pretty
timely. It's about Mark Zuckerberg make
an announcement that they were going to be removing from Meta,
(10:04):
so from Facebook and Instagram, protections for minorities,
LGBTQ, trans. They removed certain protections
that made it safe from cyberbullying and all this kind
of stuff and open this freedom of speech wasn't even a debate
concept. And I just lost my shit.
(10:26):
Like I just really was just like, that's it.
And by that's it, I mean, what am I going to do?
Because I have these communitieswe do that we built, We have put
a lot of time in fostering relationships, but I felt very
through Facebook and Instagram. It is in a way our currency and
(10:47):
our greatest platforms, if you will.
And but how can I align with someone who is doing this?
Gross. If I didn't have this work that
I did, I would have broken up with Zuckerberg years ago.
OK, so I freaked out. I texted you immediately.
(11:07):
I was like, wait, did you do this job?
And I'm just struggling. And that was before, all right,
I want everyone to listen to this really clearly.
That was before I actually watched the video of Zuckerberg
or maybe read an article. OK.
And my response, my trauma response to what I can only
(11:29):
relate it to as like a propaganda response or like some
response where I didn't have theinformation.
All I had was a picture. I mean, it's what we do, it's
what we do, It's what's happening where we could just
see a picture with some kind of sentence.
And then on the wall there's other people who are enraged
about this. And of course I'm enraged, this
(11:50):
is my family, but I've conflicted.
But fuck you. So I just really had a lot of
feelings. And then I took a moment where I
took care of myself. I went for a walk, I put my
hands in the soil, whatever. I took a freaking beat.
And I came back. And you know what?
I did like a big girl in 2025. I actually watched the video
that Zuckerberg put out, you know?
(12:13):
I haven't even done that. I mean, that's like, oh, look at
me being like a basic bitch, which is what basic basic of
what you should do. Let's get back to the basics.
I don't mean that as an insulting way.
No, no, not being, not being basic, but getting back to
basic, that's the. Whole thing exactly yes still
uses the word basic, but thank you for the clarification
(12:35):
getting back to basics and I watch it and I listen and I
first of all this Zuckerberg, helooks like a little matzo ball
soup. I mean he's very I don't know if
the word is impish or cherubic. I don't know, but there's
something very like this could give you Zonan on just by face,
like my mouth, nose and eyes like I am looking at one of the
(12:56):
kids I teach at the preschool like just got a like a not even
a like a just turned 4 like you know what I mean, just like.
Yeah, he's perpetually youthful for some reason.
And his curls. And his outfit and I knew he was
scared. And yet there's this Mr. Rogers
posturing and yet I can't tell if he's a snake like there I
(13:18):
have. I don't get his character.
It's not consistent. He's ominous to me.
He's this Oz, the Wizard of Oz like projection screen that
everyone that like the team I'm on quote, quote.
Which is kind of funny because Ican see truth in every different
angle. They don't like him.
They want to free themselves from the Zuckerberg and the
(13:39):
Meta. But like you and I have really
capitalized on what this platform has allowed it to do.
I give praise to the idea that different communities can
connect. That wouldn't, right?
So there's all these different things.
So what was So what was your biggest take away from the
video? Because I have not seen the
video. All right, so basically he went
(14:02):
down the the list of different things were getting rid of the
third party fact checking and some explanations.
But at the take away for me was basically relating to the fact
that you had some said somethingactually that trans people of
minorities and religious groups,they're still getting bullied
(14:24):
regardless of these protections.Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
So Zuckerberg said a couple of statements that made me recall
what this sensitivity like this ultra heightened sensitivity for
every word that you say being scrupulated.
(14:47):
And as someone who has been in Facebook jail, as someone who
has for a while now gone on my Facebook page just through
Messenger, as someone who is on this fringe of work, this fringe
society where I am able to use the word transgender, use the
word. We're using the words that is
(15:09):
sending the Facebook office in Silicon Valley off lame.
Every time we say whatever it isbecause it's so sensitive that
it's too much. People don't have room to be
able to freely express themselves.
And that's what I was able to hear the bullying after talking
to you and hearing the Zuckerberg thing is that some of
(15:30):
this is OK. Like it's like nothing is black
or white, right? And you want to pick a side and
pick a troop and go with the this and the that.
And once I realized that, OK, now I have more of an
understanding which made it for me in my head.
The sentence popped in of, oh, that's not so bad.
Was there manipulation in his video that was just going inside
me that I was missing, of course.
(15:53):
But the fact that I can find some understanding and I felt
very much like Chuck and Savannah in the sense of let me
hear it first. Let me know all the information.
Like it was very much a you. Like I felt like I experienced
this through you. What would Savannah do?
Wristband. Is that what's happening?
(16:14):
Well, just like slowed the fuck down a little like, and I maybe
it helps that I don't have a lotof things that pop up where I'm
like, this is blasphemy. I get really mad because it's
Gray. There's Gray.
I don't really have too many things that I value and I
understand, but this rocked my world.
All right. You're funny enough when you
(16:35):
said I need to do this topic or where were you do a different
topic. You had chosen something else
and then you came back and you said I want to do this thing
about Zuckerberg. I'm like, I don't know what
what's going on with Zuckerberg.I had no idea.
I wasn't even in in the know in the zeitgeist of what was
happening and I'm looking up. I said, did he did he die?
What? I was like, what happened?
And then you had to say, Oh, he's doing all this stuff with
(16:56):
bullying and stopping the protections.
And I'm like, really? So of course I did just a
general Google search. What is the deal with Zuckerberg
right now is the, oh, everybody has the ability now on Facebook
just called trans people mentally ill?
That was the first thing that popped up for me.
And I'm like, well, that's pretty fucked up because that's
not true. But then I went into that book
(17:20):
of what you just said. You had it.
We switched concerts. Yeah, we kind of, I was like,
well, yeah, I mean, I didn't getup in arms about it.
I'm like, well, we're not mentally ill.
And when I bring it to the pod today is if anybody is going to
tell you in your comments of a post you make on Facebook or
Instagram that you're mentally ill for being trans or
(17:41):
homosexual or any part of the LGBTQIA plus community, you can
just send them to a link to the DSM Five that says gender
dysphoria. It is not a disorder.
You know, So The thing is, yeah.So The thing is, that's the
first thing I I saw come back through my research as a person
(18:02):
who has an account on Facebook or Instagram or Threads, which I
don't use any of the Meta products.
A bunch of things you can do. You are the master of your own
domain or mistress of your own domain.
If you don't like a comment, delete it if you don't like.
Yes, don't respond. We don't.
We've done the work. This was just ridiculous.
Our audience knows. We have raised each other up to
(18:25):
know Beth. That's fine.
Let's get back to having fun andplanning girls trips and making
things. At least that's the caliber.
That's the level that I hold ourlisteners, but still.
People may be affected. I'm sure they are, but like you
said, that didn't stop people from getting bullying.
No, no. I mean, I can't tell you how
many threads I've. I would just look at the post
(18:47):
and look at the comments and thejust the vileness in a venom
being spewed in the comments of telling you how you're right or
wrong, whether it's religion, whether it's politics, whether
it's your transness or non binaryness, whatever you want to
say is I've been seeing it for years, even while all these
quote UN quote protections have been in place.
(19:08):
I think it was about reporting. I really think that there was
like if somebody says I'm mean to me in a comment, I could
report them or if they re sharedand had some vile thing to say,
I could report them and pass. And I don't know.
I haven't done it all that often.
So I don't know what the successrate was during the time of
having protections that those posts will be taken down or
(19:31):
those comments will be taken down.
In all the work I do, if I see stuff, I got two things that
happen. Rarely do I get bullied on my
Facebook, and if I do, I just freaking delete it and then
block the account, right? The second thing that happens, I
get a lot of dominances like commenting to people who comment
on my posts. They'd be like, hey, reach out
(19:51):
to me, DM me to somebody who's commenting to my post.
So I delete and block and hide their stuff.
It's like dude, I'm not here to further your Dom dungeon fares.
Wait, first of all Dom dungeon talk to me girlfriend.
Yeah, well, that's only if it's consensual, not because I'm
trying to gain business. Right, but I am not here to get
(20:11):
distracted. But I literally love the idea of
a powerful Dom. OK and I think I have one on.
I would be very good. I'm I know you would be.
Because the foundation is being a goddess and protecting and I
am good first. But I'm not looking for people
to try to gain clientele throughmy post.
(20:32):
And all I have to say about clientele through my business is
the fact there is a small percentage of people that you
cross dressing as a king. And let me just tell you, I
Mama's here to take care of you,OK?
In fact, no, you can't call me Mistress Goddess Works until I
want you to call me queen. All right, Where was I?
(20:53):
Sorry. This commercial break brought to
you by Fox and Hanger. So anyway, back to my point,
which is regardless of protections and regardless of
loss of protections, which to the all the things I've read is
basically allowing people to saymore non PC things about you.
(21:13):
They can call you training now, they can call you mentally ill
now. They could just point fingers at
you and add misinformation aboutwhat it is to be trans, what it
is to be. Right.
And you can say whatever you want about them, and you could
say they're nasty, mean, a bully, whatever.
(21:33):
All of this is time and energy that we don't have.
I'm just saying a lot of people.Have it.
A lot of people that's all theirentire time energy is spent for
trolling. And for me, I don't have time
for it. I don't have time to respond to
it. I don't have time to try to
change their mind. And so for me, if I'm going to
have it at the ready in my iPhone notes, a link to the TSM
(21:53):
5 chapter 13 about being gender dysphoric and saying here, read
this and then then just block them, delete them, hide their
posts or comment, whatever. Maybe reporting is not going to
be as effective as it once was. I don't know.
But I would say, you know what? You and I don't have time for
(22:16):
the trolls. So we give them like a 1-2 punch
and then knock them out by block.
At the end of the day, you control what people say on your
threads. So the problem is that people
are just going to just try to bury you in their trolling.
And that's where people are going to be more susceptible.
They're going to be more hurt. They're going to be more
(22:38):
stressed out and anxious about those things being said to them.
And I'm here to tell you that what you have is not a disorder.
What you have is not mental illness.
What you have is what makes you you.
And people coming to tell you you're not who you are just
means you're ignorant. I have never within our
community of the podcast and boxand hanger.
(22:59):
I'm not saying everyone's awesome and no one sucks, but
like I have never been in a chatthread with someone I know and
heard or seen any sort of bullying.
I just haven't so I don't have that perspective.
Empathy, whatever. I do know if I ever saw it I
(23:19):
would hunt them down like a dog in my verbiage when it came to
standing up for people I care about in the trans community.
So maybe it's a good thing I haven't witnessed it because I'm
I need to be appropriate and professional and not get blocked
in jail for reasons of protecting someone who has a
voice and can protect themselves.
(23:39):
I don't know. No, that's fucked up.
You know what I mean? Both are true.
Both are true. I've had people champion me on
my behalf, which is always superloved.
Like when the Ted X thing came and you're telling me don't read
the comments and I saw the finalcomments, but then I was seeing
people responding and protectingme from those comments.
(24:00):
So I'm all about people taking astand on my behalf.
It's very well appreciated. And then also, yeah, you as the
owner of an account on a social media and you as an owner of a
social media account or various social media accounts have the
basically the last say when it comes to people saying things
(24:21):
about you to you in the commentsthread.
What's probably or vague and maybe you know more about this
is where people just out now sayvile things in general like I'm
they're just. Yeah, and that is something that
I do care about. And I'm an advocate when it
comes to not standing by or following someone who just is
(24:43):
miserable and unhappy in their life just to see what they'll
say next or be like this guy. Oh my God, this guy.
They might get that guy out of the room of your life and block
a delete and every now and then do a cleanse.
When it comes to people that maynot align with their value, with
your values. They may be posting things that
you don't like. There may be just someone you
(25:04):
don't really know but you want to get to know.
But they have a friend that is really toxic.
Just keep your side of the street protected.
Protected and use social media as medicine and that sounds so
screwed up, but like what we're doing and how we're able to
build platforms and know each other and engage and do all this
(25:26):
fun, fun girls trips and soul affirming and yes, is through
these platforms. So I'm not going to abandon
freaking shit. But I did when I came to you
feel very conflicted because they felt so like, how can I do
this? So once I watched the video, I
was neutralized. I kind of understood it to the
(25:47):
point where someone came up to me and they were like, that's
ABBA Karberg. And I was like, yeah, well, have
you watched them? But I don't know, like more
leaning towards not all you cuddly politician.
I don't know. Because if Kamala won, all I'm
saying is if Kamala won the presidency, I'm just curious,
would this happen? I don't know.
(26:09):
It could be. It could be something they've
been planning for years, just launching at the.
I don't know, but it was a thought that came to me as well
as many other thoughts from manydifferent angles.
To which I say take up the Facebook app and I'll just post
naturally when I feel like it, just like Instagram.
And I still need to show up and show that I'm present
(26:30):
regardless, so. Totally agree.
And just to reset the stage a bit and I will put all these
links in the show notes. I will be giving you the meta
hateful conduct transparency link.
I'm going to read to you right now the GLAAD GLAAD responses to
these new I. Know.
Transparencies and I'll give youthe DSM 5 link so you can use it
(26:53):
at your leisure if you want to in any kind of response to
somebody calling you mentally ill.
January 10th, 2025, GLAAD, whichis the world's largest lesbian,
gay, bisexual, transgender and queer media advocacy
organization, responded to Meta's unprecedented set of
draconian changes to his corporate policies, hate speech
(27:16):
policies, and product features. So this is, I'm glad, draconian.
A little bit of language in there that's already setting the
mood so. But let me read to you what
these changes were just generally.
So in a single week, Meta modified major sections of his
hateful conduct policy to allow anti LGBTQ rhetoric and remove
(27:40):
protections for LGBTQ users, terminated its diversity,
equality and inclusion DEI programs, deleted trans and non
binary themes on Messenger, and ended its fact checking in
program. These striking announcements
follow years of imperfect but visible LGBTQ inclusion for
Meta, the parent company of Instagram, Facebook, and other
(28:02):
platforms. So that is what the response to
the changes were from a trans queer advocacy organization.
There are a lot of things that they said on this day, this is
what they did this day, that's what they did.
So I'll let everybody can read this on their own.
Again, I'm going to give you theconduct sheet to see what it
(28:23):
actually says, the GLAD response, so they can highlight
you can infer what was being highlighted or changed, and also
obviously put the DSM 5 in thereas well.
So I'd be very curious, Julie, because you said you were in
Facebook jail once or twice. Many times.
Oh, many times. And one was for be sorry.
Go ahead, go ahead, tell me. What, what, what?
(28:45):
What? Tell me I want.
To know, no, it's just a Little Mix.
I mean, some people need to be forced feminized.
They love that. It's part of my job and it's a
very small population. Forced feminization and the
cisification. And, you know, that's the area
where I got trouble. And I thought it was so weird
because I was in all these community boards where people
(29:07):
were like, like, I was among. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like, everyone was worse than me.
Like I don't know what it was. Maybe they didn't like the
competition. I rose to the top and I was
just, I don't know, I mean, I loved it.
I was really at the time I was just like, I felt like afraid
(29:31):
and they're like, you can be letin in 12 days or like whatever.
It was like all those things were like I feel like a bad
bitch but I. Mean, I love it.
Like I was whatever. I've never been put in jail, but
I did lose an entire page. I don't know if he was living
with cross dressing. It was a page and or a group.
(29:52):
I want to say it was a page and all of a sudden I got the alert
through e-mail that my page was taken down by the powers that
be. And this is probably 10-15 years
ago. This is like almost at the
advent of me starting use Facebook and I looked, I got the
e-mail and then I go tried to goto my page.
(30:13):
I mean, I couldn't even access it.
It was gone, absolutely gone. There was no determinate of 30
days you'll get it back. There was no, if you want to do
an appeal, nothing. There was like nothing I could
do. So you know what I did?
I said, F it, I'll just build another page because there was
no way to get it back. There was like, I've never to
this day been able to get to that page, do anything with that
page, appeal that page, and I'm like, well, if nobody's going to
(30:36):
tell me what happened, I'll justmove on.
Well, the weirdest thing as you're talking and recalling the
like I have been for the past year, getting this e-mail from
them, like no one could really contact me because I get this
e-mail. Like basically we're shutting
you down. We're not allowing you to
proceed. Like we're ripping down your
(30:57):
page. If you think we made a mistake,
please contact us at this thing,this area.
And finally, I did it once because I'm just like, because
to me, I've been living off the needs of the land.
This does not affect me. I'm not worried.
We've gotten to the point in ourbusiness that social media until
Trump came on and I'm like, all right, I need to be present
again. It doesn't affect our clients.
(31:17):
I haven't needed that Facebook thing.
I haven't been active. So it didn't really affect me.
But one day I did follow it through.
I'm like, why is my page shut down or why can't I access?
So I was curious and I contactedthe metaverse and they're like,
if like you said, if you think, if they think that there's a
problem or we made a mistake, please contact.
And by the time I got to an areawhere like they asked me to put
(31:41):
in any more information than I was comfortable, I was like,
fuck this. And I just didn't respond.
It's just been lifted recently actually.
Like I haven't been able to post.
I've been in jail for a while. So another take away from
Zuckerberg, the most obvious 1 is that that was lifted.
(32:03):
I don't know if that happened ornot, but somehow I'm back in
business, literally. And like I can do post there.
I can see things. Do you remember for so long I
was like, hey, can I share this to Fox and Hagar?
I would say these weird things to you based on the fact that
they cut me at the fucking knees.
And I get it. Suddenly the LGBT, the glad they
(32:26):
all have their stuff, but what about the people that are in the
trenches doing this? Like very not normalized work,
fringe work. Well, they're going to be all
over my ass. And for what?
Is it the fact that I take pictures of outfits online?
This feels very scandalosity from a copyright, like a snap of
a picture. I'm creating a lookbook.
(32:46):
Is that it? Probably not considering we have
Pinterest and that's the only thing that got me through this
guilt and allowed me to do this job was like, Oh my God, we're
going to get sued. OK, We're going to get sued.
Like there has been protections on me and not being able to get
in certain doors that needing togo under certain tables to get
through to do the work I've beenable to.
(33:08):
But yeah, I haven't had my box of Haggar Facebook running for a
while and all the e-mail and I don't I didn't think anyone can
could contact me through messenger for the business.
Literally, I can show you by phone of I could go on Facebook.
Oh, I deleted the app. But sometime after this episode,
(33:30):
I'll go on and I'll snap a pic of all the you have been shut
out. You have been shut out if you.
Yeah. Please do like to see.
That Oh man, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
God, add that to my victims list.
Yeah, and I'm saying you're probably you and I, well,
probably sounds like you more than me, run into this all the
time. It is a hassle.
It is, you know, why are you quote UN quote protecting the
(33:53):
trolls and all the file people, but the people just trying to do
their thing and get by. So it'd be the ones targeted
that I don't agree with. I think that's bullshit and
everybody should have equal footing to a point until it gets
really egregious. So I don't like the fact that
it's very uneven. A couple of things I want to
mention before we target down and focus into the end is you
(34:15):
said it before, I took some notes, but you said it before
and we spent so much time on social media and we've make that
our diary for every moment of every minute of every day I'm.
Not going to have it for myself.Yeah, and I think that I would
love for us to be less like that.
I am. I'm a Gen.
X kid, so being on Facebook for every meal and saying this is
(34:36):
what happened today, and that's just not my thing.
I'm on Facebook to be an advocate, to connect, to share,
to network. That's why I'm on Facebook.
So I would love for people to give social media less of their
energy, not in terms of time necessary but in terms of nobody
responded to my pose, therefore I'm not worthy or I'm only
(34:56):
worthy if I get 100 likes or 1000 likes.
I would like us to start seeing our worth and value beyond
social media because a lot of times when we get people who
attack us, that takes away from our self worth.
That's definitely one thing. And it is definitely the devil's
spawn. It is awful.
And if you're sitting at an office in Talla freaking Hassie
(35:19):
and you have not been able to dress as your feminine self for
quite some time, your identity is so poured into this feminine
circle. That is your female identity.
That's all you have at a large part of this social media
journey as it's been used as medicine.
(35:41):
That is your identity. You have a feminine name and you
don't even have to affect your whole space or need to dress.
That could be enough to fill that need.
And I want our listeners to knowthat.
I respect that wholeheartedly. I know it is a, it is an escape.
(36:03):
It is that dopamine, it is that validation.
So like anything, and we've donea whole episode on this, like
anything, chocolate, cigarettes,whatever it is that makes you,
brings you back to yourself and makes you feel whole.
But especially with the sensitivity that this is a
gender shape shifting thing and I'm suddenly able to be this
(36:24):
person safely. It is really important to dose
yourself to really dose out thistime you spend on these.
It's not just Facebook, can't belike fuck Facebook.
It's Instagram, it's community, it's love, it's your place.
And so really dose it out so that you think, OK, I've been on
(36:46):
Facebook or Instagram communing as my feminine self for this
amount of hours. I need to shut it down and get
back to where I am now. Or I need to come up with ways
not to be in front of a screen, but to do actual stuff in my
actual world that's going to make me feel that same feeling.
Because it's a drug. It's an important drug, but it's
(37:08):
a drug. So that's what I have to say
about that for me in closing is that.
Makes makes sense. Yeah.
Yeah, I have one more thing, andthis is what I've seen a lot of
as a result of this new regime of protection or non protection
is a lot of people running off to saying, you know what, F
Facebook, F meta, I'm going to blue sky or I'm going somewhere
(37:32):
else. And by the way, I opened up a
blue sky yesterday just to make sure I have one with my name.
What is the blue sky? I thought we had just.
Another social media outlet that's.
Is that old? No.
I, I, it's, it's new to me. I don't know.
It could be 1000 years old for all I know.
But so people are like saying I'm getting out of Facebook
because I don't like what's happening here and I'm leaving
and I'm going to blue Sky and you can find me there and F
(37:56):
them. You know F them, right?
Yes, I did open up one just in case, just to have it because I
wanted to be Savannah hawk dot blue sky dot I wanted to make.
Sure it was like there. This is.
Like a I've always set up the account.
I've not done anything. Do not ask me to be an expert on
this. I've no idea.
The point is you can fight or flight.
People are exiting Facebook in favor of a place that may be a
(38:20):
little more protected, a little more safe.
It's a safe space. So people have been going to
blue sky early saying they're going to blue sky.
People are finding home at Reddit.
There's a lot of subreddits thatare very popular with cross
dressers and trans folks and nonbinary folks.
So subreddits are also a good place to be if you don't want to
be on Facebook or be subjected to what Facebook may do it this
(38:43):
year and in the future. That's one way.
You could flight or you could fight.
And for me, I'm more of the, youknow what?
I'm going to stay here and I'm going to be present.
I'm going to be visible. I'm going to stay where I am.
I'm going to keep fighting the fight.
I'm going to keep posting. I'm going to keep being visible.
If somebody on Facebook doesn't like it or people start trolling
me or I'm in a Facebook jail, XYZI don't care.
(39:06):
I think I'd rather stay and justshow that we're not going to be
quote, UN quote, bullied off of the platform.
Right and the world needs you, Savannah Hawk, me, Julie Rubensy
to be visible. We don't know why this came to
into our life or this is our souls, whatever you want to call
(39:27):
it. But we are here to be visible,
period. And as transgender folks also
here to be visible. But we as a collective need to
create our own protections. We need to put our own
protections in place that have nothing to do with the rules
that they're going to tell us that we can and can't do.
(39:48):
But what are our own protectionsand policies that we're going to
put in for ourselves to protect ourselves?
That is all I care about. We need to come up with that for
us. And that's really a lot easier
to do when the protections go away and suddenly you're able
you're just a little more open. Well, now it's our job to say,
(40:10):
OK, how can I protect myself if this is really going to happen
or whatever it is? I mean, like the fire.
I can see some positives in this.
And again, I'm not going to go off on some other monologue
about this. But I like how you are tying it
in that even in dire disaster circumstances, there is always
(40:35):
something you can find positive from it.
For every fire you find, people,community come together like you
talking about fire trucks and departments coming in from all
over. Even in every fresh fire you
find new growth under that from the ashes.
So I know it's all metaphors at this point.
In both cases of fires and Facebook meta rule changes,
(40:57):
there's opportunity. Let's just say that there's
opportunity. There might be some strife,
there might be some bullshit, there might be some anxiety and
stressors, but at the end of theday, you can take control of
your own destiny and. Right.
At the end of the day, what elseis new?
And if someone calls you mentally ill, that's weird
because I know I'm mentally ill.Many people are mentally ill.
(41:20):
You know, like, to me that that's not a compliment at this
point. That's like normalcy.
OK, so whatever. I think everyone is so focused
on being their own very special version.
Maybe not you of mentally ill. I don't know.
I think the term has been exasperated and blown up Macy's
day float level, and now everyone's mentally ill and oh,
(41:41):
you, you thought you had a thing.
Oh, no, I have a thing, thing things.
I think I'm bipolar. Oh, don't worry, all the AD DS
are also autistic. I mean, it's just, you know,
blown up. So I think the idea that someone
would actually be like, you're mentally ill.
No, that's like a golden children's book with the the
golden binding. It was like, oh, this is the Red
Hen and Kalecki and will you help me build the weed?
(42:04):
That's like old school dinosaur Republicans that are like, oh,
it's about to little go, they'lldie out soon.
OK, we all have pill packs. I don't know if you do, you're
like the one exception to like totally normal.
OK, well, good for you, but. Hey, don't judge me for being
normal. No, no, today my friend Hadar,
we talk about ADD. She's like, I think I might be
(42:26):
autistic. I'm like, I just watched her.
She's like, I was joking. I'm like, I missed you so much
at work. And we like embrace because she
hasn't been at work for a while.But like where my AD DS at?
Why do they have to be all ADD with a triple lots double Sal
cow? You're always going to find
things that merge things that are alike on all these lists or
any who. All right, I love people, love
(42:48):
people. You have autism.
I respect that. It's a spectrum and it is a
Galaxy. OK and I hope everyone has a
beautiful day. I realize I haven't take my meds
but this conversation made me realize that I got a whole
Sunday through Sunday pack on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.
(43:09):
But I need to tend to, I need tore put my pills all right.
I'll tell you what I do carry around a thing of Advil.
Does that make you feel any better about my pills?
Look, my nipples were hard and then you just said Advil.
Not only did they get unirectus,they drooped like 3 inches.
They. Actually, they actually
inverted. What?
(43:30):
OK, I'm sorry. Exactly.
Oh, you're so funny, hog hog, always.
On that note, we appreciate all of you for listening and we love
you and keep on keeping and bye for now.
Until next time. You can find me on Facebook at
(44:00):
Savannah Hawk or at Living with Cross Dressing and on Instagram
at Savannah Hawk. Remember, that's HAUK and to
learn more, go to my website livingwithcrossdressing.com.
And you can find me on Instagramand Facebook at Fox and Hanger
or at Julie MTF Style, as well as on our website at
foxandhanger.com. Julie, it's your moment.
(44:26):
Fox in the Phoenix podcast uses anchor.
Copyright 2024. Yes, nailed it.
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(44:47):
listening, give it a five star rating or leave a review.
And for show ideas or comments, contact us through the podcast
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Fox and the Phoenix Podcast under Score.
You're listening to the Fox and the Phoenix podcast
Understanding the Feminine CrossDressing experience.
I'm Savannah Hawk, dual gender male to female cross dresser,
LGBTQ plus advocate, TEDx speaker, and author of the
Living with Cross Dressing book series.
(00:28):
And I'm Julie Rubenstein, proud ally and Co founder of Fox and
hanger.com, a feminine styling and life coaching service for
crossdressers and transgender women.
Hi, Savannah. Hey, Julie, Julie, Julie, how
are you today? I mean, lots is happening in our
world right now. So I'm considering that there's
(00:50):
a giant fire or was at this point, giant fires in Los
Angeles and lots of trauma with the LA fires.
Lots of stuff coming up for me around that.
Living in Northern California, not really being in it in terms
of even be affected by the air. Like, I really, I'm just on the
outside of the experience, but how am I doing?
(01:13):
Strangely fine and a little bit and and a little bit magical and
I can't describe it other than the fact I don't know.
There's a lot happening. I don't even know how to voice
it beyond saying that now that the dust is settled, trust me,
anything can pop up at any moment.
But I'm able to see kernels of positivity and there's a shift
(01:35):
in humanity and in sensitivity that we needed at this time as a
collective. And I will explain, OK, When
this fire first broke, it was shocking.
It was awful for me. I'm very much an empath.
And in the past kind of this, I heard this phrase on Instagram
(01:56):
and it stuck with me. Trauma porn where you sit and
you watch the devastation happenand you don't have much personal
boundaries because not only are you fully signing up for the
whole vortex that is social media, you're literally watching
like you're watching from a window and you're thinking, and
(02:18):
a lot of depletion is coming up,a lot of it.
And so for me, I've learned overthe years just through figuring
out how to survive during these times that I dipped in for a
little bit just to be aware thatI haven't really thought much
about that beyond the self-care I need to do.
Because around me, everyone is responding in this kind of big
(02:40):
collective way. And then it affects people that,
you know, like it may be a colleague who lost all the house
on their street, but like that one house remained.
And then you find out that your good friend who had returned
from a funeral in Los Angeles a week prior, their husband is
still there and they're getting the grieving aunt that just lost
(03:03):
her spouse ready to evacuate. And but they're still there and
they're going to take her to a safe place.
And then they're going to try toget on an airplane, but they
haven't. So they're stuck.
So there's this, the ability to,OK, how do I compartmentalize?
Which I am good at the worry, right?
(03:24):
So I'm going to be texting with my friend and being like, get
prepared to evacuate, get all the stuff.
I get in that mode and then I get a little worried, but then I
like take a shower or take a walk or put my hands in the
soil. There's something that's taking
place in myself that's very animalistic.
I'm usually very in my head, as you know, very in my head.
(03:45):
And there's something that has happened with this disaster that
has forced me to be present. I, and I think this is what it's
like for many of us, be present,be in our bodies.
And I don't really have time forall the in the IT is just called
mish mishegas, all the worry andstress that is going to erode my
brain and it's too easy for me. It's too easy to go there.
(04:08):
So I'm going to counter it really, really hard.
Anyhow, what I want to say, what's unique about this fire
and what I think will bring on this amazing, necessary change
is you've got this population ofroyalty, celebrity royalty that
have had this life of wealth anda privilege and have donated so
(04:31):
much to Haiti, so much to the tsunami.
They had parties, they raise raffles, they use their
privilege in a way of power to get resources over to these not
wealthy communities at the otherside of the world away from
their castle and protected livesand their ability to relate.
And now this kind of tragedy andthis vulnerability is going to
(04:55):
allow them to when there is another devastation happening at
somewhere in the world, they're able to internalize with that
feeling of what it's like to lose everything of to be
stripped from everything they'veever known, something that is a
very, very different experience for them.
And it's just going to cause a global softening that we need.
(05:18):
We needed it before Trump came in.
We're all very up in arms. We needed there to be something
that literally burnt to the ground for people to remember
that we're all people, for fire engines to come from all over,
to go to this castle. It reminds me of Encanto.
There's a scene where that magical house, that magical
(05:40):
place where no one is affected, and fame and fortune and riches,
that house rumbled to the groundand all the community would reap
from the benefits. We're reaping from this idea of
celebrity. We're reaping from this idea of
watching our Instagram and watching Paris Hilton's perfect
life and watching Kathy Hilton and all these celebrities.
(06:00):
And sure, there was the Malibu fire, but you know what?
This has covered more acreage and affected more people.
So it's just, I don't know. And people are surrounding this
land and they're rebuilding it. And these people that are
usually giving out the dough, they're giving out the dough,
but they're also dealing with trauma that makes them relatable
(06:22):
and forced to receive from firefighters from all over the
world. I think it is that are calling
to aid and to service. So I really feel this expansion
and the softening and this vibe that is really beautiful and
makes me feel really in touch with approaching my life with
(06:43):
heart, not with head, with heart.
And for me, when I can make thattransition, I can feel other
people doing that. It feels so profound.
So yeah, that's the little Nuggets.
And now I'm not going to say so much and I'll let you talk, but
I had to get that out. I haven't been able to process
so thank you. I've heard about all the
celebrities who've lost their 14and $15 million homes, or Mel
(07:08):
Gibson was off doing a podcast with Joe Rogan and comes home
and his home is half gone. The only thing I can say on a
personal level is our LA branch for my business, my company's
business, they lost power, lost water because they were
probably, I don't know, maybe 20miles away from the line of the
(07:30):
fire at that time. The people who worked there
obviously live in the area, so they are very close to where
those fires were hitting at the time.
So it's still something for me that it's relatable, but still
separate. I guess it would be the same as
like somebody living through 911who lives in Oregon.
But me being there, 20 miles away from the World Trade
(07:50):
Center, I understand. I can empathize, sympathize with
your situation, but you're not in it.
So I'm not going to be able to be in what's in going through
the heads of people, celebrity, non celebrity people, just be
what they're going through. I couldn't go through what you
went through when they had the fires up in Northern California
where the sky was always red anddark and sooty and I could see
(08:13):
from the pictures you'd send me.But I didn't have first hand
trauma and anxiety of going through it other than through
you. So yeah, it is nice to have
people relating to each other and lifting each other up
regardless of status because there is that thing.
I like what you said about yeah celebrity that usually throw a
party or a fundraiser for something around.
(08:36):
So much money, give so much money to something they have no
idea and they're going to be fine.
Don't get me wrong, they're going to be fine.
So this is very different than in a lot of ways, in a
fundamental way than what happens in less affluent
communities, less populated. There's movement and there's
change. So I know that we have I there
(08:57):
is a topic that I want to get totoday.
I just wanted to just share fromthe state of California my
feelings because I felt like it was timely and I have I had no
choice like I had to. I'm glad.
I'm glad we could be an outlet for you.
And thank goodness, through the magic of editing, when all of
you will hear this episode, it will be as clean as it can get
(09:19):
and know that there was a whole lot more.
I I might keep every word you don't know.
Oh sweetie, I love you. I love you too.
So what else are you bringing tothe table today?
So another thing that happened rather timely, if you will, is I
don't and you might, but I don'thave the exact date that this
(09:41):
happened. OK, maybe I want to say it was
within a week of the fire. It could have been a couple
days. All I know is the two seem very
closely connected and yet separate, so they're pretty
timely. It's about Mark Zuckerberg make
an announcement that they were going to be removing from Meta,
(10:04):
so from Facebook and Instagram, protections for minorities,
LGBTQ, trans. They removed certain protections
that made it safe from cyberbullying and all this kind
of stuff and open this freedom of speech wasn't even a debate
concept. And I just lost my shit.
(10:26):
Like I just really was just like, that's it.
And by that's it, I mean, what am I going to do?
Because I have these communitieswe do that we built, We have put
a lot of time in fostering relationships, but I felt very
through Facebook and Instagram. It is in a way our currency and
(10:47):
our greatest platforms, if you will.
And but how can I align with someone who is doing this?
Gross. If I didn't have this work that
I did, I would have broken up with Zuckerberg years ago.
OK, so I freaked out. I texted you immediately.
(11:07):
I was like, wait, did you do this job?
And I'm just struggling. And that was before, all right,
I want everyone to listen to this really clearly.
That was before I actually watched the video of Zuckerberg
or maybe read an article. OK.
And my response, my trauma response to what I can only
(11:29):
relate it to as like a propaganda response or like some
response where I didn't have theinformation.
All I had was a picture. I mean, it's what we do, it's
what we do, It's what's happening where we could just
see a picture with some kind of sentence.
And then on the wall there's other people who are enraged
about this. And of course I'm enraged, this
(11:50):
is my family, but I've conflicted.
But fuck you. So I just really had a lot of
feelings. And then I took a moment where I
took care of myself. I went for a walk, I put my
hands in the soil, whatever. I took a freaking beat.
And I came back. And you know what?
I did like a big girl in 2025. I actually watched the video
that Zuckerberg put out, you know?
(12:13):
I haven't even done that. I mean, that's like, oh, look at
me being like a basic bitch, which is what basic basic of
what you should do. Let's get back to the basics.
I don't mean that as an insulting way.
No, no, not being, not being basic, but getting back to
basic, that's the. Whole thing exactly yes still
uses the word basic, but thank you for the clarification
(12:35):
getting back to basics and I watch it and I listen and I
first of all this Zuckerberg, helooks like a little matzo ball
soup. I mean he's very I don't know if
the word is impish or cherubic. I don't know, but there's
something very like this could give you Zonan on just by face,
like my mouth, nose and eyes like I am looking at one of the
(12:56):
kids I teach at the preschool like just got a like a not even
a like a just turned 4 like you know what I mean, just like.
Yeah, he's perpetually youthful for some reason.
And his curls. And his outfit and I knew he was
scared. And yet there's this Mr. Rogers
posturing and yet I can't tell if he's a snake like there I
(13:18):
have. I don't get his character.
It's not consistent. He's ominous to me.
He's this Oz, the Wizard of Oz like projection screen that
everyone that like the team I'm on quote, quote.
Which is kind of funny because Ican see truth in every different
angle. They don't like him.
They want to free themselves from the Zuckerberg and the
(13:39):
Meta. But like you and I have really
capitalized on what this platform has allowed it to do.
I give praise to the idea that different communities can
connect. That wouldn't, right?
So there's all these different things.
So what was So what was your biggest take away from the
video? Because I have not seen the
video. All right, so basically he went
(14:02):
down the the list of different things were getting rid of the
third party fact checking and some explanations.
But at the take away for me was basically relating to the fact
that you had some said somethingactually that trans people of
minorities and religious groups,they're still getting bullied
(14:24):
regardless of these protections.Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
So Zuckerberg said a couple of statements that made me recall
what this sensitivity like this ultra heightened sensitivity for
every word that you say being scrupulated.
(14:47):
And as someone who has been in Facebook jail, as someone who
has for a while now gone on my Facebook page just through
Messenger, as someone who is on this fringe of work, this fringe
society where I am able to use the word transgender, use the
word. We're using the words that is
(15:09):
sending the Facebook office in Silicon Valley off lame.
Every time we say whatever it isbecause it's so sensitive that
it's too much. People don't have room to be
able to freely express themselves.
And that's what I was able to hear the bullying after talking
to you and hearing the Zuckerberg thing is that some of
(15:30):
this is OK. Like it's like nothing is black
or white, right? And you want to pick a side and
pick a troop and go with the this and the that.
And once I realized that, OK, now I have more of an
understanding which made it for me in my head.
The sentence popped in of, oh, that's not so bad.
Was there manipulation in his video that was just going inside
me that I was missing, of course.
(15:53):
But the fact that I can find some understanding and I felt
very much like Chuck and Savannah in the sense of let me
hear it first. Let me know all the information.
Like it was very much a you. Like I felt like I experienced
this through you. What would Savannah do?
Wristband. Is that what's happening?
(16:14):
Well, just like slowed the fuck down a little like, and I maybe
it helps that I don't have a lotof things that pop up where I'm
like, this is blasphemy. I get really mad because it's
Gray. There's Gray.
I don't really have too many things that I value and I
understand, but this rocked my world.
All right. You're funny enough when you
(16:35):
said I need to do this topic or where were you do a different
topic. You had chosen something else
and then you came back and you said I want to do this thing
about Zuckerberg. I'm like, I don't know what
what's going on with Zuckerberg.I had no idea.
I wasn't even in in the know in the zeitgeist of what was
happening and I'm looking up. I said, did he did he die?
What? I was like, what happened?
And then you had to say, Oh, he's doing all this stuff with
(16:56):
bullying and stopping the protections.
And I'm like, really? So of course I did just a
general Google search. What is the deal with Zuckerberg
right now is the, oh, everybody has the ability now on Facebook
just called trans people mentally ill?
That was the first thing that popped up for me.
And I'm like, well, that's pretty fucked up because that's
not true. But then I went into that book
(17:20):
of what you just said. You had it.
We switched concerts. Yeah, we kind of, I was like,
well, yeah, I mean, I didn't getup in arms about it.
I'm like, well, we're not mentally ill.
And when I bring it to the pod today is if anybody is going to
tell you in your comments of a post you make on Facebook or
Instagram that you're mentally ill for being trans or
(17:41):
homosexual or any part of the LGBTQIA plus community, you can
just send them to a link to the DSM Five that says gender
dysphoria. It is not a disorder.
You know, So The thing is, yeah.So The thing is, that's the
first thing I I saw come back through my research as a person
(18:02):
who has an account on Facebook or Instagram or Threads, which I
don't use any of the Meta products.
A bunch of things you can do. You are the master of your own
domain or mistress of your own domain.
If you don't like a comment, delete it if you don't like.
Yes, don't respond. We don't.
We've done the work. This was just ridiculous.
Our audience knows. We have raised each other up to
(18:25):
know Beth. That's fine.
Let's get back to having fun andplanning girls trips and making
things. At least that's the caliber.
That's the level that I hold ourlisteners, but still.
People may be affected. I'm sure they are, but like you
said, that didn't stop people from getting bullying.
No, no. I mean, I can't tell you how
many threads I've. I would just look at the post
(18:47):
and look at the comments and thejust the vileness in a venom
being spewed in the comments of telling you how you're right or
wrong, whether it's religion, whether it's politics, whether
it's your transness or non binaryness, whatever you want to
say is I've been seeing it for years, even while all these
quote UN quote protections have been in place.
(19:08):
I think it was about reporting. I really think that there was
like if somebody says I'm mean to me in a comment, I could
report them or if they re sharedand had some vile thing to say,
I could report them and pass. And I don't know.
I haven't done it all that often.
So I don't know what the successrate was during the time of
having protections that those posts will be taken down or
(19:31):
those comments will be taken down.
In all the work I do, if I see stuff, I got two things that
happen. Rarely do I get bullied on my
Facebook, and if I do, I just freaking delete it and then
block the account, right? The second thing that happens, I
get a lot of dominances like commenting to people who comment
on my posts. They'd be like, hey, reach out
(19:51):
to me, DM me to somebody who's commenting to my post.
So I delete and block and hide their stuff.
It's like dude, I'm not here to further your Dom dungeon fares.
Wait, first of all Dom dungeon talk to me girlfriend.
Yeah, well, that's only if it's consensual, not because I'm
trying to gain business. Right, but I am not here to get
(20:11):
distracted. But I literally love the idea of
a powerful Dom. OK and I think I have one on.
I would be very good. I'm I know you would be.
Because the foundation is being a goddess and protecting and I
am good first. But I'm not looking for people
to try to gain clientele throughmy post.
(20:32):
And all I have to say about clientele through my business is
the fact there is a small percentage of people that you
cross dressing as a king. And let me just tell you, I
Mama's here to take care of you,OK?
In fact, no, you can't call me Mistress Goddess Works until I
want you to call me queen. All right, Where was I?
(20:53):
Sorry. This commercial break brought to
you by Fox and Hanger. So anyway, back to my point,
which is regardless of protections and regardless of
loss of protections, which to the all the things I've read is
basically allowing people to saymore non PC things about you.
(21:13):
They can call you training now, they can call you mentally ill
now. They could just point fingers at
you and add misinformation aboutwhat it is to be trans, what it
is to be. Right.
And you can say whatever you want about them, and you could
say they're nasty, mean, a bully, whatever.
(21:33):
All of this is time and energy that we don't have.
I'm just saying a lot of people.Have it.
A lot of people that's all theirentire time energy is spent for
trolling. And for me, I don't have time
for it. I don't have time to respond to
it. I don't have time to try to
change their mind. And so for me, if I'm going to
have it at the ready in my iPhone notes, a link to the TSM
(21:53):
5 chapter 13 about being gender dysphoric and saying here, read
this and then then just block them, delete them, hide their
posts or comment, whatever. Maybe reporting is not going to
be as effective as it once was. I don't know.
But I would say, you know what? You and I don't have time for
(22:16):
the trolls. So we give them like a 1-2 punch
and then knock them out by block.
At the end of the day, you control what people say on your
threads. So the problem is that people
are just going to just try to bury you in their trolling.
And that's where people are going to be more susceptible.
They're going to be more hurt. They're going to be more
(22:38):
stressed out and anxious about those things being said to them.
And I'm here to tell you that what you have is not a disorder.
What you have is not mental illness.
What you have is what makes you you.
And people coming to tell you you're not who you are just
means you're ignorant. I have never within our
community of the podcast and boxand hanger.
(22:59):
I'm not saying everyone's awesome and no one sucks, but
like I have never been in a chatthread with someone I know and
heard or seen any sort of bullying.
I just haven't so I don't have that perspective.
Empathy, whatever. I do know if I ever saw it I
(23:19):
would hunt them down like a dog in my verbiage when it came to
standing up for people I care about in the trans community.
So maybe it's a good thing I haven't witnessed it because I'm
I need to be appropriate and professional and not get blocked
in jail for reasons of protecting someone who has a
voice and can protect themselves.
(23:39):
I don't know. No, that's fucked up.
You know what I mean? Both are true.
Both are true. I've had people champion me on
my behalf, which is always superloved.
Like when the Ted X thing came and you're telling me don't read
the comments and I saw the finalcomments, but then I was seeing
people responding and protectingme from those comments.
(24:00):
So I'm all about people taking astand on my behalf.
It's very well appreciated. And then also, yeah, you as the
owner of an account on a social media and you as an owner of a
social media account or various social media accounts have the
basically the last say when it comes to people saying things
(24:21):
about you to you in the commentsthread.
What's probably or vague and maybe you know more about this
is where people just out now sayvile things in general like I'm
they're just. Yeah, and that is something that
I do care about. And I'm an advocate when it
comes to not standing by or following someone who just is
(24:43):
miserable and unhappy in their life just to see what they'll
say next or be like this guy. Oh my God, this guy.
They might get that guy out of the room of your life and block
a delete and every now and then do a cleanse.
When it comes to people that maynot align with their value, with
your values. They may be posting things that
you don't like. There may be just someone you
(25:04):
don't really know but you want to get to know.
But they have a friend that is really toxic.
Just keep your side of the street protected.
Protected and use social media as medicine and that sounds so
screwed up, but like what we're doing and how we're able to
build platforms and know each other and engage and do all this
(25:26):
fun, fun girls trips and soul affirming and yes, is through
these platforms. So I'm not going to abandon
freaking shit. But I did when I came to you
feel very conflicted because they felt so like, how can I do
this? So once I watched the video, I
was neutralized. I kind of understood it to the
(25:47):
point where someone came up to me and they were like, that's
ABBA Karberg. And I was like, yeah, well, have
you watched them? But I don't know, like more
leaning towards not all you cuddly politician.
I don't know. Because if Kamala won, all I'm
saying is if Kamala won the presidency, I'm just curious,
would this happen? I don't know.
(26:09):
It could be. It could be something they've
been planning for years, just launching at the.
I don't know, but it was a thought that came to me as well
as many other thoughts from manydifferent angles.
To which I say take up the Facebook app and I'll just post
naturally when I feel like it, just like Instagram.
And I still need to show up and show that I'm present
(26:30):
regardless, so. Totally agree.
And just to reset the stage a bit and I will put all these
links in the show notes. I will be giving you the meta
hateful conduct transparency link.
I'm going to read to you right now the GLAAD GLAAD responses to
these new I. Know.
Transparencies and I'll give youthe DSM 5 link so you can use it
(26:53):
at your leisure if you want to in any kind of response to
somebody calling you mentally ill.
January 10th, 2025, GLAAD, whichis the world's largest lesbian,
gay, bisexual, transgender and queer media advocacy
organization, responded to Meta's unprecedented set of
draconian changes to his corporate policies, hate speech
(27:16):
policies, and product features. So this is, I'm glad, draconian.
A little bit of language in there that's already setting the
mood so. But let me read to you what
these changes were just generally.
So in a single week, Meta modified major sections of his
hateful conduct policy to allow anti LGBTQ rhetoric and remove
(27:40):
protections for LGBTQ users, terminated its diversity,
equality and inclusion DEI programs, deleted trans and non
binary themes on Messenger, and ended its fact checking in
program. These striking announcements
follow years of imperfect but visible LGBTQ inclusion for
Meta, the parent company of Instagram, Facebook, and other
(28:02):
platforms. So that is what the response to
the changes were from a trans queer advocacy organization.
There are a lot of things that they said on this day, this is
what they did this day, that's what they did.
So I'll let everybody can read this on their own.
Again, I'm going to give you theconduct sheet to see what it
(28:23):
actually says, the GLAD response, so they can highlight
you can infer what was being highlighted or changed, and also
obviously put the DSM 5 in thereas well.
So I'd be very curious, Julie, because you said you were in
Facebook jail once or twice. Many times.
Oh, many times. And one was for be sorry.
Go ahead, go ahead, tell me. What, what, what?
(28:45):
What? Tell me I want.
To know, no, it's just a Little Mix.
I mean, some people need to be forced feminized.
They love that. It's part of my job and it's a
very small population. Forced feminization and the
cisification. And, you know, that's the area
where I got trouble. And I thought it was so weird
because I was in all these community boards where people
(29:07):
were like, like, I was among. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like, everyone was worse than me.
Like I don't know what it was. Maybe they didn't like the
competition. I rose to the top and I was
just, I don't know, I mean, I loved it.
I was really at the time I was just like, I felt like afraid
(29:31):
and they're like, you can be letin in 12 days or like whatever.
It was like all those things were like I feel like a bad
bitch but I. Mean, I love it.
Like I was whatever. I've never been put in jail, but
I did lose an entire page. I don't know if he was living
with cross dressing. It was a page and or a group.
(29:52):
I want to say it was a page and all of a sudden I got the alert
through e-mail that my page was taken down by the powers that
be. And this is probably 10-15 years
ago. This is like almost at the
advent of me starting use Facebook and I looked, I got the
e-mail and then I go tried to goto my page.
(30:13):
I mean, I couldn't even access it.
It was gone, absolutely gone. There was no determinate of 30
days you'll get it back. There was no, if you want to do
an appeal, nothing. There was like nothing I could
do. So you know what I did?
I said, F it, I'll just build another page because there was
no way to get it back. There was like, I've never to
this day been able to get to that page, do anything with that
page, appeal that page, and I'm like, well, if nobody's going to
(30:36):
tell me what happened, I'll justmove on.
Well, the weirdest thing as you're talking and recalling the
like I have been for the past year, getting this e-mail from
them, like no one could really contact me because I get this
e-mail. Like basically we're shutting
you down. We're not allowing you to
proceed. Like we're ripping down your
(30:57):
page. If you think we made a mistake,
please contact us at this thing,this area.
And finally, I did it once because I'm just like, because
to me, I've been living off the needs of the land.
This does not affect me. I'm not worried.
We've gotten to the point in ourbusiness that social media until
Trump came on and I'm like, all right, I need to be present
again. It doesn't affect our clients.
(31:17):
I haven't needed that Facebook thing.
I haven't been active. So it didn't really affect me.
But one day I did follow it through.
I'm like, why is my page shut down or why can't I access?
So I was curious and I contactedthe metaverse and they're like,
if like you said, if you think, if they think that there's a
problem or we made a mistake, please contact.
And by the time I got to an areawhere like they asked me to put
(31:41):
in any more information than I was comfortable, I was like,
fuck this. And I just didn't respond.
It's just been lifted recently actually.
Like I haven't been able to post.
I've been in jail for a while. So another take away from
Zuckerberg, the most obvious 1 is that that was lifted.
(32:03):
I don't know if that happened ornot, but somehow I'm back in
business, literally. And like I can do post there.
I can see things. Do you remember for so long I
was like, hey, can I share this to Fox and Hagar?
I would say these weird things to you based on the fact that
they cut me at the fucking knees.
And I get it. Suddenly the LGBT, the glad they
(32:26):
all have their stuff, but what about the people that are in the
trenches doing this? Like very not normalized work,
fringe work. Well, they're going to be all
over my ass. And for what?
Is it the fact that I take pictures of outfits online?
This feels very scandalosity from a copyright, like a snap of
a picture. I'm creating a lookbook.
(32:46):
Is that it? Probably not considering we have
Pinterest and that's the only thing that got me through this
guilt and allowed me to do this job was like, Oh my God, we're
going to get sued. OK, We're going to get sued.
Like there has been protections on me and not being able to get
in certain doors that needing togo under certain tables to get
through to do the work I've beenable to.
(33:08):
But yeah, I haven't had my box of Haggar Facebook running for a
while and all the e-mail and I don't I didn't think anyone can
could contact me through messenger for the business.
Literally, I can show you by phone of I could go on Facebook.
Oh, I deleted the app. But sometime after this episode,
(33:30):
I'll go on and I'll snap a pic of all the you have been shut
out. You have been shut out if you.
Yeah. Please do like to see.
That Oh man, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
God, add that to my victims list.
Yeah, and I'm saying you're probably you and I, well,
probably sounds like you more than me, run into this all the
time. It is a hassle.
It is, you know, why are you quote UN quote protecting the
(33:53):
trolls and all the file people, but the people just trying to do
their thing and get by. So it'd be the ones targeted
that I don't agree with. I think that's bullshit and
everybody should have equal footing to a point until it gets
really egregious. So I don't like the fact that
it's very uneven. A couple of things I want to
mention before we target down and focus into the end is you
(34:15):
said it before, I took some notes, but you said it before
and we spent so much time on social media and we've make that
our diary for every moment of every minute of every day I'm.
Not going to have it for myself.Yeah, and I think that I would
love for us to be less like that.
I am. I'm a Gen.
X kid, so being on Facebook for every meal and saying this is
(34:36):
what happened today, and that's just not my thing.
I'm on Facebook to be an advocate, to connect, to share,
to network. That's why I'm on Facebook.
So I would love for people to give social media less of their
energy, not in terms of time necessary but in terms of nobody
responded to my pose, therefore I'm not worthy or I'm only
(34:56):
worthy if I get 100 likes or 1000 likes.
I would like us to start seeing our worth and value beyond
social media because a lot of times when we get people who
attack us, that takes away from our self worth.
That's definitely one thing. And it is definitely the devil's
spawn. It is awful.
And if you're sitting at an office in Talla freaking Hassie
(35:19):
and you have not been able to dress as your feminine self for
quite some time, your identity is so poured into this feminine
circle. That is your female identity.
That's all you have at a large part of this social media
journey as it's been used as medicine.
(35:41):
That is your identity. You have a feminine name and you
don't even have to affect your whole space or need to dress.
That could be enough to fill that need.
And I want our listeners to knowthat.
I respect that wholeheartedly. I know it is a, it is an escape.
(36:03):
It is that dopamine, it is that validation.
So like anything, and we've donea whole episode on this, like
anything, chocolate, cigarettes,whatever it is that makes you,
brings you back to yourself and makes you feel whole.
But especially with the sensitivity that this is a
gender shape shifting thing and I'm suddenly able to be this
(36:24):
person safely. It is really important to dose
yourself to really dose out thistime you spend on these.
It's not just Facebook, can't belike fuck Facebook.
It's Instagram, it's community, it's love, it's your place.
And so really dose it out so that you think, OK, I've been on
(36:46):
Facebook or Instagram communing as my feminine self for this
amount of hours. I need to shut it down and get
back to where I am now. Or I need to come up with ways
not to be in front of a screen, but to do actual stuff in my
actual world that's going to make me feel that same feeling.
Because it's a drug. It's an important drug, but it's
(37:08):
a drug. So that's what I have to say
about that for me in closing is that.
Makes makes sense. Yeah.
Yeah, I have one more thing, andthis is what I've seen a lot of
as a result of this new regime of protection or non protection
is a lot of people running off to saying, you know what, F
Facebook, F meta, I'm going to blue sky or I'm going somewhere
(37:32):
else. And by the way, I opened up a
blue sky yesterday just to make sure I have one with my name.
What is the blue sky? I thought we had just.
Another social media outlet that's.
Is that old? No.
I, I, it's, it's new to me. I don't know.
It could be 1000 years old for all I know.
But so people are like saying I'm getting out of Facebook
because I don't like what's happening here and I'm leaving
and I'm going to blue Sky and you can find me there and F
(37:56):
them. You know F them, right?
Yes, I did open up one just in case, just to have it because I
wanted to be Savannah hawk dot blue sky dot I wanted to make.
Sure it was like there. This is.
Like a I've always set up the account.
I've not done anything. Do not ask me to be an expert on
this. I've no idea.
The point is you can fight or flight.
People are exiting Facebook in favor of a place that may be a
(38:20):
little more protected, a little more safe.
It's a safe space. So people have been going to
blue sky early saying they're going to blue sky.
People are finding home at Reddit.
There's a lot of subreddits thatare very popular with cross
dressers and trans folks and nonbinary folks.
So subreddits are also a good place to be if you don't want to
be on Facebook or be subjected to what Facebook may do it this
(38:43):
year and in the future. That's one way.
You could flight or you could fight.
And for me, I'm more of the, youknow what?
I'm going to stay here and I'm going to be present.
I'm going to be visible. I'm going to stay where I am.
I'm going to keep fighting the fight.
I'm going to keep posting. I'm going to keep being visible.
If somebody on Facebook doesn't like it or people start trolling
me or I'm in a Facebook jail, XYZI don't care.
(39:06):
I think I'd rather stay and justshow that we're not going to be
quote, UN quote, bullied off of the platform.
Right and the world needs you, Savannah Hawk, me, Julie Rubensy
to be visible. We don't know why this came to
into our life or this is our souls, whatever you want to call
(39:27):
it. But we are here to be visible,
period. And as transgender folks also
here to be visible. But we as a collective need to
create our own protections. We need to put our own
protections in place that have nothing to do with the rules
that they're going to tell us that we can and can't do.
(39:48):
But what are our own protectionsand policies that we're going to
put in for ourselves to protect ourselves?
That is all I care about. We need to come up with that for
us. And that's really a lot easier
to do when the protections go away and suddenly you're able
you're just a little more open. Well, now it's our job to say,
(40:10):
OK, how can I protect myself if this is really going to happen
or whatever it is? I mean, like the fire.
I can see some positives in this.
And again, I'm not going to go off on some other monologue
about this. But I like how you are tying it
in that even in dire disaster circumstances, there is always
(40:35):
something you can find positive from it.
For every fire you find, people,community come together like you
talking about fire trucks and departments coming in from all
over. Even in every fresh fire you
find new growth under that from the ashes.
So I know it's all metaphors at this point.
In both cases of fires and Facebook meta rule changes,
(40:57):
there's opportunity. Let's just say that there's
opportunity. There might be some strife,
there might be some bullshit, there might be some anxiety and
stressors, but at the end of theday, you can take control of
your own destiny and. Right.
At the end of the day, what elseis new?
And if someone calls you mentally ill, that's weird
because I know I'm mentally ill.Many people are mentally ill.
(41:20):
You know, like, to me that that's not a compliment at this
point. That's like normalcy.
OK, so whatever. I think everyone is so focused
on being their own very special version.
Maybe not you of mentally ill. I don't know.
I think the term has been exasperated and blown up Macy's
day float level, and now everyone's mentally ill and oh,
(41:41):
you, you thought you had a thing.
Oh, no, I have a thing, thing things.
I think I'm bipolar. Oh, don't worry, all the AD DS
are also autistic. I mean, it's just, you know,
blown up. So I think the idea that someone
would actually be like, you're mentally ill.
No, that's like a golden children's book with the the
golden binding. It was like, oh, this is the Red
Hen and Kalecki and will you help me build the weed?
(42:04):
That's like old school dinosaur Republicans that are like, oh,
it's about to little go, they'lldie out soon.
OK, we all have pill packs. I don't know if you do, you're
like the one exception to like totally normal.
OK, well, good for you, but. Hey, don't judge me for being
normal. No, no, today my friend Hadar,
we talk about ADD. She's like, I think I might be
(42:26):
autistic. I'm like, I just watched her.
She's like, I was joking. I'm like, I missed you so much
at work. And we like embrace because she
hasn't been at work for a while.But like where my AD DS at?
Why do they have to be all ADD with a triple lots double Sal
cow? You're always going to find
things that merge things that are alike on all these lists or
any who. All right, I love people, love
(42:48):
people. You have autism.
I respect that. It's a spectrum and it is a
Galaxy. OK and I hope everyone has a
beautiful day. I realize I haven't take my meds
but this conversation made me realize that I got a whole
Sunday through Sunday pack on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.
(43:09):
But I need to tend to, I need tore put my pills all right.
I'll tell you what I do carry around a thing of Advil.
Does that make you feel any better about my pills?
Look, my nipples were hard and then you just said Advil.
Not only did they get unirectus,they drooped like 3 inches.
They. Actually, they actually
inverted. What?
(43:30):
OK, I'm sorry. Exactly.
Oh, you're so funny, hog hog, always.
On that note, we appreciate all of you for listening and we love
you and keep on keeping and bye for now.
Until next time. You can find me on Facebook at
(44:00):
Savannah Hawk or at Living with Cross Dressing and on Instagram
at Savannah Hawk. Remember, that's HAUK and to
learn more, go to my website livingwithcrossdressing.com.
And you can find me on Instagramand Facebook at Fox and Hanger
or at Julie MTF Style, as well as on our website at
foxandhanger.com. Julie, it's your moment.
(44:26):
Fox in the Phoenix podcast uses anchor.
Copyright 2024. Yes, nailed it.
If you enjoy our content and want to make it easier for
others to find us, please share with your friends, tap the
Subscribe or Follow button to the show wherever you're
(44:47):
listening, give it a five star rating or leave a review.
And for show ideas or comments, contact us through the podcast
on Facebook at Fox and Phoenix Podcast or on Instagram at the
Fox and the Phoenix Podcast under Score.
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