October 15, 2025 • 37 mins
In this episode, Savannah tells Julie about a close friend who just happened to go to the mall and get into a traffic collision in the process. Of course, fender benders happen every day. This time, though, this friend just happened to be dressed enfemme! What happens when a gender expansive person is faced with a car accident where their identity and identification may be called into question? How can all of us be just a little bit ore prepared for when this might happen to us?
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SAVANNAH HAUK is the author of “Living with Crossdressing: Defining a New Normal” and “Living with Crossdressing: Discovering your True Identity“. While both focus on the male-to-female (mtf) crossdresser, “Defining a New Normal” delves into crossdressing and relationships and “Discovering Your True Identity” looks at the individual crossdressing journey. Her latest achievements are two TEDx Talks, one entitled "Demystifying the Crossdressing Experience" and the other "13 Milliseconds: First Impressions of Gender Expression". Savannah is a male-to-female dual-gender crossdresser who is visible in the Upstate of South Carolina, active in local groups and advocating as a public speaker at LGBTQ+ conferences and workshops across the United States. At the moment, Savannah is working on more books, blogs, and projects focused on letting every crossdresser–young and mature–find their own confidence, expression, identity and voice.
IG @savannahhauk | FB @savannahhauk | FB @livingwithcrossdressing | web @livingwithcrossdressing.com
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JULIE RUBENSTEIN is a dedicated ally to transgender community and the certified image consultant and co-owner of Fox and Hanger. F&H is a unique service for transgender women and male-to-female crossdressers that creates customized virtual fashion and style “lookbooks”. Julie intuitively connects with each client to find them appropriate clothes, makeup, hair, and shape wear all in alignment with their budget, body type, authentic style and unique personality. Julie also provides enfemme coaching and wardrobe support. Julie has made it her life’s work to help MTF individuals feel safe and confident when it comes to their female persona, expression and identity.
IG @Juliemtfstyle | FB @foxandhanger | web @FoxandHanger.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
You're listening to the Fox in aPhoenix podcast, Understanding
the feminine cross wrestling experience.
I'm Savannah Hawk, dual gender male to female cross wrestler,
LGBTQ plus advocate, TEDx speaker and author of the Living
with Cross Wrestling book series.
And I'm Julie Rubenstein, proud ally and Co founder of Fox and
(00:30):
hanger.com, a feminine styling and life coaching service for
crossdressers and transgender women.
Hey, Julie. Hi, Savannah.
How are you, my love? I am good.
I'm good in front of me. I have my latest obsession and
that's these at Costco. They sell the little cups of
(00:52):
Mandarin oranges. Think old school, like back in
the 80s where you'd be like, oh,have my cup of fruit, please.
And there is the little fruit cups and I just, I poke a hole
with my nail and I suckle out the sweet syrupy juice.
Hold on, let me see. It's so divine and refreshing.
And then I scoop out a little baby Mandarin orange like it's a
(01:14):
little yes, you are, you look atyou and it's so good.
It does look good. They have a nice bright color to
them. I'm sure it's all natural.
I'm sure, I'm sure it's. The finding the Finding Nemo
orange. I'm sure that's real Nat, but.
Anyway, first of all, it was a little deeper than that, so I
(01:36):
think it's probably not bad for you.
Do you remember? You're probably too young, but
do you remember when high C usedto come in a can and you used to
have to, or like see fruit punchand you'd have to take your
little key thing and put a hole on two sides of the top so it
had the thing to air out when you're trying to pour it out for
a drink? Do you remember those?
No, no, you're so young. No, but I remember the powder.
(02:00):
We were in a high C house, but like we did dye our hair with
Kool-aid and I'm sure hi the powder right Yes, there.
Was a powder, yeah. Yeah, I remember that.
Also, do you remember Nestle Quick?
Yep. With this.
Today. Yeah, oof.
Memory lane, baby memory lane. I love it.
(02:22):
Speaking of nothing in particular, with no segue at
all, I have a very topical topictoday.
Oh cool, I love topical topics. It's topical topics topic, not
because it's topical, because ithasn't existed in the world
forever or it likes the turn of the 20th century.
Just saying. You'll figure out why in a
(02:44):
moment. I have had friends of mine.
We share this text thread. What had happened to said person
was unfortunate and is somethingthat does happen more often than
we like to think. And so I'm going to read you
what had happened. In this.
This is from one of my lovely friends that I met at ACC and
(03:08):
also through Keystone and you probably met them offhandedly as
well. So they pose this to the group
and said happy Friday. That's nice when they say Happy
Friday. Oh they yeah they did.
But then they said Happy Friday.Had an eventful Thursday though.
Went to the mall in Femme last night.
A challenge these days with all the construction guys around the
(03:31):
house all day and a guy in a pickup ran into me in the
parking lot. He was very apologetic and said
it was his fault and his foot slipped off the brake to the gas
when he was trying to stop at the intersection.
But definitely a quote. Oh crap moment when I had to do
the whole exchange info thing and explain to him my driver's
(03:51):
license looks different than I do because I'm trans.
It didn't seem to be an issue, but I'm still kind of rattled.
Calling insurance today. Sad face.
So this is just one of at least three instances I know of
personally because of friends where the world doesn't go the
(04:12):
way you think it's going to go that day.
And now you're caught with something that if you were not
gender expansive or going out gender expansively, you wouldn't
probably think about it at all. Other than in fact, I'm like, oh
man, somebody hit my car and. I you'll be focused on your car.
Yeah, yeah. But the add that one element of,
oh shit, I'm dressed as a woman today.
(04:35):
How is that going to be affectedby exchanging information, The
people that I had, the collisionwith, possible police
involvement, what are they goingto say or what they may think or
say it or do? Because I'm dressed this way.
And I thought this was just something that just happens more
often than we believe it does. And I'm sure many of our
listeners have had a similar experience happened to them.
(04:58):
But I thought it would be interesting to talk through the
emotional and practical elementsof what happens when these
things happen. Yeah, there's like a a range of
experiences one could have depending on the circumstances,
depending on where you're from in the in the country, where
you're from in the world. But in this specific story, it
(05:21):
sounds like it was a pretty run-of-the-mill situation.
It was pretty safe in terms of this just being a place on the
map where things just happen. And it doesn't seem high stakes
like the zip code wasn't a part of the character, correct?
That is correct, yes. Correct.
OK. So with that being said, I can
(05:43):
only imagine the trauma and likewhether it's PTSD or trauma in
the moment of something like this happening, it's, I don't
want to say especially, but in spite of the person who got into
this collision with them being OK with it, right?
(06:04):
That doesn't mean the person, the gender expansive person is
OK. That doesn't mean that they're
not totally experiencing something really, really
intense. So yeah, I'd love to, I'd love
to discuss it and talk about thedifferent ways that this could
because I'm not trans, I'm not acrossdresser, I'm not in that
kind of scenario. But I do know that there's a
(06:27):
wide range of how this could look.
When you brought up this topic to me, I thought about the movie
we had watched at the movie watch Party with Tu Wong Fu.
Best to you, Julie Newmeyer. Anyways, it brought me back to
the movie Tu Wong Fu, where Patrick Swayze was pulled over
by police. And that having that whole
(06:48):
experience being so painful, so visceral for me as a as someone
watching it, and I can't even imagine to be in that situation.
How exposing? Yeah.
And it that kind of the marginalized population being
treated differently than others.And to your earlier point, yes,
(07:09):
this was not a geospecific problem.
It's not like deep Southish goodold boy against trans people.
That was not a consideration. The there was two people in the
opposing vehicle that were both none plus by it didn't seem to
be a factor as to why. I also did say to her, I said
you're a gorgeous woman. A gorgeous, gorgeous, passable
(07:32):
woman. Yeah, but they might not even
have realized it because it softened the interaction of that
passability factor could have been a factor and it did not.
If I recalled, it did not involve police.
So that was one element taken off the table, but just
interaction with people where you feel now very vulnerable
because your driver's license isdifferent than what you're
(07:56):
presenting as you, you have thatextra layer of vulnerability
built in because of stigma and social standards and normality,
quote UN quote. So yeah, there's a lot of things
that you just as soon as you come out of the car, the initial
is like, oh crap, somebody hit me and the deal with the
collision aspect. But then you're like, oh shit, I
(08:17):
need to open this door and I'm going to step out and just dress
in these heels. And it's going to be a whole
different experience than getting out of your car hurts a
dude. Right.
Yeah, right. And even the simply we have to
gear up to have a conversation because what's different on my
license is different. Let's say they have that total
passability including voice, right.
There's no differentiation. There's still that trauma of
(08:40):
having to out yourself for the sake of this identification
exchange that shows something different, you know, and that
also leads me to another point, and that's the idea of let's
just say that this person has worked really hard in therapy.
They're really comfortable with their trans identity.
(09:01):
They're really comfortable with their presentation and fam, they
have a community behind them, they have a spouse, children.
Everything has been fairly easy.Let's just say they've worked a
lot on themselves. They've worked hard for
overcoming the past, all these things, right?
When something happens like this, I believe the showcasing
of oneself as a gender expansiveperson digs up some of that old
(09:26):
shame. And this could be false or not,
but to me, it would feel like I just got outed, which would make
me feel a tremendous amount of shame, which would make me feel
less than, which would make me feel vulnerable, which would
make me feel like my identity issomething that I have to make
sure that you're OK with. So now I have to think about all
(09:48):
these things to make sure you'reOK with it, but I'm not OK with
it. I mean, it really just hits a
nerve that no matter how much you may have support and love on
a logical level, something simply a human moment, a mistake
that happens can bring up a lot.Yeah, and with the idea of a
shame and anxiety super huge. And the one thing that may also
(10:11):
be true because they said they went to the mall, that mall
could be 5 minutes from their home.
You may have run into somebody who knows your male side.
And now if you are, like they said in their message as well,
it's hard for me to dress because we got all of these
construction people at the house, so they have to slip out.
The. Thing a little covert now all of
(10:31):
a sudden you're in a very publicsetting with official things
happening where you could beat docs for Oh no, I didn't think
this was going to happen and nowmy real identity is on blast for
possibly anybody to see had thatperson that hit them who know
their male side or somehow have some familiarity with who you
(10:53):
are. So if you're not prepared to be
quote, UN quote outed, that's a whole other layer that we'd have
to contend with. Right.
Or just someone who you hit who's a transphobic person.
No matter where you live, there are transphobic people
everywhere, right? Right.
And it, it was luck and I don't know, I feel very protective of
(11:15):
this person and this person's inher child that got the dress
lifted up or their pants pulled down metaphorically, you know?
And how many people does this happen to every day where just
leaving the house, just going tothe mall, just dressing with the
intention to go out in the world, That's already enough.
(11:37):
OK, That already takes you calling on courage or that takes
being really fearful in the beginning, but knowing that So
if I keep on putting myself out there, maybe it will normalize
and normalize. And let's say this person was on
that track, right? They did it, yes.
And then suddenly something happens.
It's a bitch. No, you didn't.
You know what I mean? Like Nope.
(11:59):
I don't know if this came beforeor after their shopping
experience. Could you tell me that
information? I.
Don't know. No, that I don't know actually.
Because maybe they had a great experience at the mall.
Everything went great. Everyone was kind to them.
They were protected by the safe environment.
They may have even had some fun.They didn't have to go to the
bathroom because they didn't want to deal with that.
(12:20):
Whatever the circumstances mighthave been.
In my mind, I can imagine getting back in the car being
one of those things. Maybe not for you, but for many
people. One of those things was like,
OK, I'm going to make it to my house and then I'm going to go
home and check that off the list.
I made it through the hard part.The mall was great.
(12:40):
Let's just get home. And then when that gets
interrupted, it's like, oh man. I mean, oh woman.
I mean, definitely would interrupt any sort of endorphin
high from an amazing experience out.
Yeah, absolutely agree. I will have to ask whether it
was prior to them getting to theplace they wanted to be or not.
A couple things I want to do, since we're talking about these,
(13:03):
this kind of situation is like what to do in these situations.
Obviously with any accident, everybody should be getting out,
making sure that you're OK, making sure the others are OK.
Use typical and you get it. It's funny because I've been in
several accidents. I know the situation, but even
though I have been in accidents,the adrenaline and the panic and
(13:29):
the anxiety and stress of it, you forget all those typical
things you should be doing. I think we all know to get out,
check ourselves, check the others.
That second thing we typically do is we all look at the damage
point of the So it's what did you do to me?
What did you do to me? You put peanut butter in my
chocolate. No, you put chocolate in my
(13:49):
peanut butter. And so you do that and you like
assess the damage, you start photographing the damage.
And then obviously you're that next step, which is the crux of
this story, is exchanging information.
Why does your driver license notsay who you look like?
And in that you need to do just so.
The most important part of this part is you need to use your
(14:12):
legal documentation both for exchanging information with the
other driver and if necessary, if there is an accident report
that needs to be taken by the police.
You have to use the identity youhave official, state or federal,
whatever that information is. Your registration, your
insurance, your driver's license, all needs to match was
(14:35):
officially on your officially who you are, quote UN quote.
Now that may or may not apply because I am not that versed in
how transitioning folks are, especially in today's world
where your registration may be under your male name, but you
may have a new driver's license that has a female name.
So that I will not really get deeper into, but I'm sure
(14:55):
there's a little difficulty there when it starts
mismatching. But do please use whatever
official documentation you have because that is what's going to
be needed going forward. So that being said, I have
another story for you. So the response in the yes, the
response in the same friend group as that story was said,
this happened to me. So this was I know the feeling.
(15:19):
Early in my CD career I was travelling home late from one of
our bimonthly CD meetings, dozedoff and ran off the road through
a snow bank, into the yes and into the grass at an Interstate
exit. Luckily I woke up just in time
(15:40):
to miss a signpost and very lucky I had guy clothes in the
back seat. Well.
Yeah, I changed in the car but had to walk through the bitter
cold. I made it about halfway down the
exit ramp before an exceedingly kind couple stopped and asked if
I needed a ride. They took me home and didn't ask
(16:01):
about the makeup all. Right.
First of all, that's like a freaking movie.
So let's hope that this person at least wrote in a journal
because that is like an epic part of your CD journey or
however this person identifies. But if they didn't, and that was
just a story that they tucked away till this perfect moment to
(16:21):
bring it out and soothe the trauma of the the story you just
told prior to this moment, what a tale to tell.
I mean, I, I didn't laugh, but Icried.
And these people like you need aride.
They didn't comment on the makeup.
I really saw that visually, as if I was watching it on one of
these, I don't know, streaming services, but I, I really,
(16:45):
that's an amazing, harrowing journey.
It is, and we have mentioned this prior because I had another
friend on Long Island who kept, they called him Melissa in a
box. So they had their Feb clothes
and like a go bag of their of male clothes in case any
eventuality could happen. So that's another thing that we
(17:06):
could take away from this, not necessarily from a Fender
Bender, but because I don't think there's a need for that.
But if there was something more dire that happened, especially
in this case where it's like I was stuck in a snow bank and I'm
in heels in a dress, there may be a jacket that really wasn't
made for traveling and hitchhiking down the road.
(17:27):
To have a pair of winter boots that have something more
insulated and improper if you were to find yourself in a
situation where. Insulated.
Yeah. And but to have something that's
more made for the challenge ahead, like I can guarantee you
I don't have a shovel in my car.I don't have a blanket.
I don't have anything. If I were still in New York and
(17:51):
emergency, I'm on the side of the road in stock in the snow
bank, I would not be prepared whether it was for Chuck or for
Savannah, Important to be prepared.
And in this case, for both of these situations, be prepared
for just in case you get stuck, and be prepared in case you need
to make a quick change for some reason that would be more
applicable or appropriate for whatever situation to find
(18:14):
yourself in. So let me just say this, that if
a stranger was to see a damsel in distress versus some dude
that was just like walking on the road for me, I pull over for
a damsel. I'm just saying for that's all
I'm saying. So when we say mail mode closed,
I think that the major thing to say is that they had clothes
(18:36):
appropriate for the situation, at least for me, because if
there was, I don't know, excuse me, person who this happened to,
I totally accept what you said and thank goodness.
But for me, like I'm glad they had the boots, the waterproof
stuff, right? And it wasn't so much I have to
go outside and fam and I'm so shamed in the winter.
(18:56):
So let's thank goodness I had mymy LL Bean Parker and my
masculine man for hat. I just feel like I don't know
well. I, I think it just goes to being
prepared and I can guarantee youI am woefully.
I'm not prepared. Yeah, I'm woefully under
prepared myself in most situations.
I live down South now so I'm notworried about snow as much, but
(19:20):
floods happen. I could get hit by a deer on a
highway, which is very prevalentdown here.
So on the highway. So lots of things could happen
and I think at the very least weshould have a little something
emergency bag or duffel or something to cover most
eventualities. And also I want to make a
statement. Also on Long Island years ago, I
(19:42):
have a friend who experienced a hit and run and they were so
worried about the police. Well first of all, they didn't
even chase the person that hit and run them because they were
dressed in femme. They worried about get the
police involved because this wasback in the let's say lady in
his early 90s or it was even more not cool to be in femme as
(20:04):
a biological male and they decided just to call it a day
and go home. They basically just crunched
their way home in this car with the damage, took care of all the
repairs themselves because of the fact that in heat of concern
and worry. For the fact that, Oh no, I'm
going to be at blame somehow or in the wrong somehow because I
(20:27):
dress this way. Right and right.
And that to me feels really real.
To me, it feels like the person would rather have a leg that's
bleeding out and drive home withthe leg bleeding out.
I'm making up the story and it'snot going so well, but
especially compared to the wholeParker story.
(20:47):
I'm just saying, all right, for the listeners, the leg is
bleeding out and they could callthe the EMS emergency, the
EMT's, you know what I mean? The freaking.
But they don't want to because of the way they're dressed and
because if they were to get picked up wearing this wrap
dress and clip on hoop earrings with their full face of makeup,
(21:11):
not only could it be a harmful situation for this person, but
mainly it would out them to their family.
It would cause a lot of shame for possibly their business.
There'll be a slew of reasons onwhy this person is not choosing
safety. They're choosing safety.
Does that make sense? They're not choosing the safety
as if. Let me think about the safe
(21:31):
helpers that would help me in a emergency situation.
Let's say the police and ambulance, the fire station.
No, they're thinking about the safety and security of their
discretion when it comes to thispart for themselves.
When you're in that state of mind, maybe in their mind they
would rather bleed out than ever.
(21:51):
Ever expose themselves to a evenbigger moment where they have to
be exposed under lights and paperwork and money and
embarrassed and embarrassed for the people that are in their
lives. I could just crack this wide
open in my mind and heart and think about how a person who
experiences some trauma and doesn't want to reach out to the
(22:13):
quote appropriate channels for fear that they will get caught
for whatever society or the world views as wrong, unnatural,
not OK, not safe, unacceptable, no.
You're you're now in it. You're definitely now in it.
Which leads me to my second partof how to what to do and not in
(22:34):
a bleeding out situation. We would all like to think that
instead of taking that scarf offfrom around your neck and making
a tourniquet out of it and make yourself home to John Wick,
stitch yourself up. But that should go to the word 0
or get EMT involved. You have flaws, suddenly you
make it sew up the stitches situation and then you you
(22:55):
connect your eyelashes to createthe perfect exact.
So understanding, but understanding that we would make
a different choice because of how much concern we would have
about our discretion, which it sounds insane, but it's so
ingrained in us to be like or the first thing we need to do is
(23:15):
protect our identity in some way.
What I want to say about if you get into a Fender Bender, it's
it says how to navigate identityand presentation.
So the first thing was it is your right to present however
you choose. So just because your driver's
license says Chuck and I'm dressed up as Savannah, there's
nothing in my presentation that anything to do with the
(23:37):
accident. We should not have a concern
that has a relevancy to the accident.
But as we said earlier, we mighthave to explain ourselves a
little bit because like you said, that might be transphobic
people. There might be some trans
ignorant people. There might be, I don't know,
somebody in the police force that has an issue about it.
But it's our right to dress the way we want to dress in most
(24:01):
places. I have not looked up any laws to
say deep dark Tennessee is stillillegal for a man to dress as a
woman and you could be arrested.I'm sure that exists.
And please look at your localityto know like how true or not
true that is. But yes, you might have to
answer questions. You might have to unfortunately
defend why you're dressed one way and your your license says
(24:22):
something different. Stay factual.
Focus on the issue at hand because your presentation is not
the issue at hand is like, OK, we have an accident, we are
going to exchange information. Here's my insurance, but do we
need to call the police for a police report?
OK, do that. Call my insurance.
Do all the things that you typically would checklist and we
(24:43):
would tell our kids to do as they're learning to drive.
It's like, hey, Remy, and when you're learning to drive, Oh my.
God, stop it, it's too soon. I'm sorry, I'm saying there
should be a checklist that all of us are aware of because there
are so many times when it's the first time it ever happens to
us. What do I do?
I oh I should have done this when it happened.
(25:04):
Ready. You're like that.
You get in that panic fight or flight mode and suddenly you're
all right. I know what to do.
Can get quiet. That being said, an experienced
person versus someone doing thisfor the first time is a
completely different story, right?
And like, let's say someone comes to help you and you're
(25:24):
just like, you know, at the window.
Let's hope that the person can help you through this kind of,
you know, nothingness shock space to say, well, do you have
your registration? Do you have all this?
All the things on the list. Yeah, it is funny because I just
got my new tag, my new registration tag.
(25:45):
It starts September 1st, which is not passed.
And I think I told, I don't knowif I told you, but I was looking
like, hey man, where's my registration?
Because I don't know, I was feeling some weird sort of way
about where's my, my insurance card, where's my registration
card? I know I have my driver's
license on me all times. And I look at all my
registration, I could not find the current year's registration.
(26:07):
I found twelve other ones from like everyone up till the one
that I need to give to the cops if they first show up.
I'm like, thank God my registration is renewing.
So I can put that in a very specific spot that I always know
where it is. And I don't know for what
reason, but I've been very much like, OK, I need to get all
these things in alignment just to make sure that if somebody
(26:28):
get pulls me over or I'm in an accident, I have it all on this
quick little booklet just like here it is, I'm ready to go.
No, no hassle, no fuss. I've been watching a lot of cop
Cam videos and watching the person in the car try to find
the registration is so just sad and just painful to watch them
(26:49):
go through a stack of receipts in their box to try to find a
thing they can't find so I'm trying to be a little.
Man. Yeah, yeah.
So anyway, be prepared, have that checklist because I, like
you said, I have been very luckybecause either myself or the
driver I was a passenger in the car with.
(27:10):
There's always been two of us. If one person's in shock, the
other person could kind of go into action about, OK, taking
pictures, OK, call the person, do this.
And the other person. I was in one accident where the
driver of the car was taken awayin an ambulance.
EMTs came and said, do you need professional help?
This is she was in such shock that she's just kind of mumbled
(27:31):
yes. And they took her away.
And I, as a passenger, had to figure out the towing the rental
car, calling the insurance company.
And it wasn't like I was affected, but it was one of
those things where having two people is very helpful to get
through the situation. So of course.
In that way more tips is make sure you have all the right
(27:53):
information. As I said, document thoroughly.
And again, that's not your documents.
That is document the situation as thoroughly as you can.
And in the modern age of cell phones and cameras and video, we
can do all that. And now even more so, people are
talking about having those dash cams that's always running every
time you're driving so that you could have that as backup to
(28:16):
know that you were not at fault,that the other person ran the
way. So again, there's so many things
we could do. I know we're getting off the
gender topic and more about whatto do in these situations.
It's important because with the with the gender stuff on top of
it, yes, you want to make sure that you have organized your
list because making sure that you're prepared and organized
(28:39):
plus knowing that you're going to be dealing with all these
shock and shame and how I have to have this talk and what is
this person to say? It's a lot.
So making sure you at least havethe basics.
It's really important, especially being a trans person.
You know, it's kind of like being a person of color, being a
trans person. You, I think internally have or
(29:02):
how you were when you were coming out about your cross
dressing. You had a list of those
questions that you already knew from your experience that people
would ask. You were prepared because you
knew that that's where they'd go.
I think that that's also quite useful to start a checklist like
that as well, for one. And if something like this
happens, just put it in writing,make it a little more tangible
(29:26):
than in your head of fears. Come up with an action plan for
that so that you can, even if you have to review these lines
before going out, at least you'll feel safe and comforted
knowing that should this, God forbid happen, you already have
been rehearsing these steps and lists.
You know, my identities is different than my than what I
(29:48):
look like right now. I'm trans.
Like that kind of stuff is just as useful because shock is
shock. And as as much as I don't even
want to think about these thingshappening, because when I think
about these things happening, I'm worried that I'll manifest
them already. You saying I've been thinking
about getting prepared a lot. I'm just thankful that you said
I've been watching a lot of the cop shows because I'm like, oh,
(30:10):
God, is this an omen for something psychic about the
future? You know what I mean?
Like my Jewish superstitious nature, you could never be too
prepared when it comes from something like this, especially
when leaving the house as someone different than your
biology. Stay safe out there, especially
if you're driving alone, going to the mall alone.
(30:32):
So yeah. Yeah.
And if this whole idea of preparedness, and you brought up
the concept very early on this conversation about the
vulnerability, there's such a vulnerability of being in an
accident and having property damage and this thing that's
unexpected and you're never prepared for, even if you've
been in too many accidents, you've never prepared for the
next accident. So to be prepared when it is a
(30:55):
very vulnerable situation, number one.
And the last thing I want to throw in here is in those cases
of an accident that's a little more severe.
And you and I both saw this first hand at Keystone, OK,
where there may be the requirement or the need or the
want to have a additional card in your purse or in your wallet
(31:17):
that says this is who I am. Here's my pronouns.
I am dressed this way today. I am blah, blah, blah.
A card, a card, it's an accidentcard that if there's a reason
that you're incapacitated that that would allow some
understanding because you're notgoing to be able to possibly
verbalize it in that moment. But if you're like in shock and
(31:37):
you could just say hand this card over to somebody because
you're like make cognizant conversation to know that
that's. A great idea.
Yeah, again, we're talking aboutFender benders, but it's a
universal thing. Be prepared.
Have your information quickly inhand at all times because that
way it's just like it's a non thought.
It's like, oh, it's right here in this little black booklet I
(31:59):
have in my glove. Box an emergency contact also
like someone who if it's not, ifyou're not comfortable having
it, be your spouse. Is it your neighbor?
Who knows who is your girlfriendthat you can call at 3:00 in the
morning and would pick you up and would help you in this
situation? No one's going to judge you when
it comes to yourself and life saving skills.
(32:21):
If you put someone other than your spouse because you were in
a unique situation that is separate from your spouse
knowing or whatever it is, who is that person?
Have that conversation after this episode with that person
and say, hey, I was listening toan episode of can you be my
person? Because I'm not, I'm not out to
my family. As you know, discretion is 100%,
(32:44):
but I need to have a person and I love you.
Would you be willing to be that person?
And then you add that number in case of emergency, you know, and
then put the number and then putin brackets.
Use my female name, you know, you know, something like that.
All in the nature of preparing yourself for things that you
can't be prepared for, basically.
(33:05):
Absolutely, absolutely on that point exactly.
I think about it always in termsof my partner's always known and
will know that I'm going on a Savannah.
I forget those who are even closeted from their spouse
knowing the one thing I want to say about the first story is
their partner was away. Their wife was away on the girls
weekend and they said I'm back from my weekend.
(33:27):
Obviously did not check my phone.
Missed a lot including my spousegetting into an accident trans
mode. My bad.
I feel guilty and I'm sorry for not being present.
Sounds like you handled it amazingly well.
So I thought it was so sweet that she's like, Oh my God, I
wish I would have been there in case you need it.
Of course. Yeah.
(33:47):
I just wanted to say that because this spouse is a rock
star. Yeah, it's a lot.
And I just want to say thank youso much to the parties that were
involved and their spouses and everyone on this text that
really gave permission for us tohave this story read on our
episode. I think that it created some
important dialogue and it allowsour listeners to really hear new
(34:11):
bits and bobs of advice that maybe they can use, that maybe
we'll be a life saving, life changing bit of information.
Yeah, and the fact that I know several of my sisters who have
had this happen. So I know this is not like it
just happens to people around me.
It happens to everybody. And I'm sure our listeners each
(34:33):
have 5 stories they could tell us and share with us about share
it says in this and please sharewith that we'd love to have a
follow up episode talking about my time on the road and this is
what happened. Whether it's a car accident or
being pulled over or some strange hitchhiker, I don't
care. I want.
We want to hear it. I want to.
Hear So please, please, please give us all your commentary.
(34:56):
We would love to have an episodededicated to the strange
happenings on the road and how it went down and how you handled
it and what came of it. We would love that.
We would love that. I would love that too.
And I love you. I love you.
I was coming up with a post to suss out some of the gossips.
Was the strange gossip from a TGCD?
(35:18):
I'm literally writing this as I say it.
God the road. Yeah, on the.
Rd. Things that happen on the road.
On the road again, I got my heels and pearls and tit is with
me. I've got my map and I'm aware
that my false eyelashes are falling off on my cheek, but at
least there's a 711 where I knowsomeone named Steve.
(35:40):
I'm on the road again, someone named Steve.
As part of the whole song, now Iwant to know who Steve is.
Steve, Steve's also name is Shirley and they're in my CD
group, so they all right, what am I saying now?
I'm just like. Now we're now you're just.
Like. Yeah, you're just.
Improv. Oh yeah.
Freestyle your freestyle. One.
(36:01):
Yep. Love it, love that for you
because I know every so often you say, you know what?
I haven't sang enough on this show.
I. Do.
And here you are bringing it. I do, I do say that, yes.
So to all our listeners that have came on and they're like,
she says that please check out earlier episodes and get to know
(36:22):
us better. But we're glad we're here.
Absolutely. And I also want to say I'm so
happy to have you in my life allthese years.
It's like 6 years my love that we've.
Done here. No, it's not.
Yeah. 5. It's been a long time, darling.
Yeah, I remember we didn't just start the podcast day one, so.
Right. We started at like day 20, day
20. Oh, I wish we were that good
(36:45):
that early, but love to you and all to.
You all. The time we've been together,
it's been amazing so far and I can't wait for what comes next.
Yes, me too. OK, bye for now.
Until next time. Be safe out there y'all.
Yeah, please. And prepared, you can find me on
(37:07):
Facebook at Savannah Hawk or at Living with Cross Dressing and
on Instagram at Savannah Hawk. Remember, that's HAUK.
And to learn more, go to my website
livingwithcrossdressing.com. And you can find me on Instagram
and Facebook at Fox and Hanger or at Julie MTF Style, as well
as on our website at foxandhanger.com.
(37:34):
Julie, it's your moment. The Fox and the Phoenix podcast
uses Spotify for creators. Copyright 2025.
Yes, nailed it.
You're listening to the Fox in aPhoenix podcast, Understanding
the feminine cross wrestling experience.
I'm Savannah Hawk, dual gender male to female cross wrestler,
LGBTQ plus advocate, TEDx speaker and author of the Living
with Cross Wrestling book series.
And I'm Julie Rubenstein, proud ally and Co founder of Fox and
(00:30):
hanger.com, a feminine styling and life coaching service for
crossdressers and transgender women.
Hey, Julie. Hi, Savannah.
How are you, my love? I am good.
I'm good in front of me. I have my latest obsession and
that's these at Costco. They sell the little cups of
(00:52):
Mandarin oranges. Think old school, like back in
the 80s where you'd be like, oh,have my cup of fruit, please.
And there is the little fruit cups and I just, I poke a hole
with my nail and I suckle out the sweet syrupy juice.
Hold on, let me see. It's so divine and refreshing.
And then I scoop out a little baby Mandarin orange like it's a
(01:14):
little yes, you are, you look atyou and it's so good.
It does look good. They have a nice bright color to
them. I'm sure it's all natural.
I'm sure, I'm sure it's. The finding the Finding Nemo
orange. I'm sure that's real Nat, but.
Anyway, first of all, it was a little deeper than that, so I
(01:36):
think it's probably not bad for you.
Do you remember? You're probably too young, but
do you remember when high C usedto come in a can and you used to
have to, or like see fruit punchand you'd have to take your
little key thing and put a hole on two sides of the top so it
had the thing to air out when you're trying to pour it out for
a drink? Do you remember those?
No, no, you're so young. No, but I remember the powder.
(02:00):
We were in a high C house, but like we did dye our hair with
Kool-aid and I'm sure hi the powder right Yes, there.
Was a powder, yeah. Yeah, I remember that.
Also, do you remember Nestle Quick?
Yep. With this.
Today. Yeah, oof.
Memory lane, baby memory lane. I love it.
(02:22):
Speaking of nothing in particular, with no segue at
all, I have a very topical topictoday.
Oh cool, I love topical topics. It's topical topics topic, not
because it's topical, because ithasn't existed in the world
forever or it likes the turn of the 20th century.
Just saying. You'll figure out why in a
(02:44):
moment. I have had friends of mine.
We share this text thread. What had happened to said person
was unfortunate and is somethingthat does happen more often than
we like to think. And so I'm going to read you
what had happened. In this.
This is from one of my lovely friends that I met at ACC and
(03:08):
also through Keystone and you probably met them offhandedly as
well. So they pose this to the group
and said happy Friday. That's nice when they say Happy
Friday. Oh they yeah they did.
But then they said Happy Friday.Had an eventful Thursday though.
Went to the mall in Femme last night.
A challenge these days with all the construction guys around the
(03:31):
house all day and a guy in a pickup ran into me in the
parking lot. He was very apologetic and said
it was his fault and his foot slipped off the brake to the gas
when he was trying to stop at the intersection.
But definitely a quote. Oh crap moment when I had to do
the whole exchange info thing and explain to him my driver's
(03:51):
license looks different than I do because I'm trans.
It didn't seem to be an issue, but I'm still kind of rattled.
Calling insurance today. Sad face.
So this is just one of at least three instances I know of
personally because of friends where the world doesn't go the
(04:12):
way you think it's going to go that day.
And now you're caught with something that if you were not
gender expansive or going out gender expansively, you wouldn't
probably think about it at all. Other than in fact, I'm like, oh
man, somebody hit my car and. I you'll be focused on your car.
Yeah, yeah. But the add that one element of,
oh shit, I'm dressed as a woman today.
(04:35):
How is that going to be affectedby exchanging information, The
people that I had, the collisionwith, possible police
involvement, what are they goingto say or what they may think or
say it or do? Because I'm dressed this way.
And I thought this was just something that just happens more
often than we believe it does. And I'm sure many of our
listeners have had a similar experience happened to them.
(04:58):
But I thought it would be interesting to talk through the
emotional and practical elementsof what happens when these
things happen. Yeah, there's like a a range of
experiences one could have depending on the circumstances,
depending on where you're from in the in the country, where
you're from in the world. But in this specific story, it
(05:21):
sounds like it was a pretty run-of-the-mill situation.
It was pretty safe in terms of this just being a place on the
map where things just happen. And it doesn't seem high stakes
like the zip code wasn't a part of the character, correct?
That is correct, yes. Correct.
OK. So with that being said, I can
(05:43):
only imagine the trauma and likewhether it's PTSD or trauma in
the moment of something like this happening, it's, I don't
want to say especially, but in spite of the person who got into
this collision with them being OK with it, right?
(06:04):
That doesn't mean the person, the gender expansive person is
OK. That doesn't mean that they're
not totally experiencing something really, really
intense. So yeah, I'd love to, I'd love
to discuss it and talk about thedifferent ways that this could
because I'm not trans, I'm not acrossdresser, I'm not in that
kind of scenario. But I do know that there's a
(06:27):
wide range of how this could look.
When you brought up this topic to me, I thought about the movie
we had watched at the movie watch Party with Tu Wong Fu.
Best to you, Julie Newmeyer. Anyways, it brought me back to
the movie Tu Wong Fu, where Patrick Swayze was pulled over
by police. And that having that whole
(06:48):
experience being so painful, so visceral for me as a as someone
watching it, and I can't even imagine to be in that situation.
How exposing? Yeah.
And it that kind of the marginalized population being
treated differently than others.And to your earlier point, yes,
(07:09):
this was not a geospecific problem.
It's not like deep Southish goodold boy against trans people.
That was not a consideration. The there was two people in the
opposing vehicle that were both none plus by it didn't seem to
be a factor as to why. I also did say to her, I said
you're a gorgeous woman. A gorgeous, gorgeous, passable
(07:32):
woman. Yeah, but they might not even
have realized it because it softened the interaction of that
passability factor could have been a factor and it did not.
If I recalled, it did not involve police.
So that was one element taken off the table, but just
interaction with people where you feel now very vulnerable
because your driver's license isdifferent than what you're
(07:56):
presenting as you, you have thatextra layer of vulnerability
built in because of stigma and social standards and normality,
quote UN quote. So yeah, there's a lot of things
that you just as soon as you come out of the car, the initial
is like, oh crap, somebody hit me and the deal with the
collision aspect. But then you're like, oh shit, I
(08:17):
need to open this door and I'm going to step out and just dress
in these heels. And it's going to be a whole
different experience than getting out of your car hurts a
dude. Right.
Yeah, right. And even the simply we have to
gear up to have a conversation because what's different on my
license is different. Let's say they have that total
passability including voice, right.
There's no differentiation. There's still that trauma of
(08:40):
having to out yourself for the sake of this identification
exchange that shows something different, you know, and that
also leads me to another point, and that's the idea of let's
just say that this person has worked really hard in therapy.
They're really comfortable with their trans identity.
(09:01):
They're really comfortable with their presentation and fam, they
have a community behind them, they have a spouse, children.
Everything has been fairly easy.Let's just say they've worked a
lot on themselves. They've worked hard for
overcoming the past, all these things, right?
When something happens like this, I believe the showcasing
of oneself as a gender expansiveperson digs up some of that old
(09:26):
shame. And this could be false or not,
but to me, it would feel like I just got outed, which would make
me feel a tremendous amount of shame, which would make me feel
less than, which would make me feel vulnerable, which would
make me feel like my identity issomething that I have to make
sure that you're OK with. So now I have to think about all
(09:48):
these things to make sure you'reOK with it, but I'm not OK with
it. I mean, it really just hits a
nerve that no matter how much you may have support and love on
a logical level, something simply a human moment, a mistake
that happens can bring up a lot.Yeah, and with the idea of a
shame and anxiety super huge. And the one thing that may also
(10:11):
be true because they said they went to the mall, that mall
could be 5 minutes from their home.
You may have run into somebody who knows your male side.
And now if you are, like they said in their message as well,
it's hard for me to dress because we got all of these
construction people at the house, so they have to slip out.
The. Thing a little covert now all of
(10:31):
a sudden you're in a very publicsetting with official things
happening where you could beat docs for Oh no, I didn't think
this was going to happen and nowmy real identity is on blast for
possibly anybody to see had thatperson that hit them who know
their male side or somehow have some familiarity with who you
(10:53):
are. So if you're not prepared to be
quote, UN quote outed, that's a whole other layer that we'd have
to contend with. Right.
Or just someone who you hit who's a transphobic person.
No matter where you live, there are transphobic people
everywhere, right? Right.
And it, it was luck and I don't know, I feel very protective of
(11:15):
this person and this person's inher child that got the dress
lifted up or their pants pulled down metaphorically, you know?
And how many people does this happen to every day where just
leaving the house, just going tothe mall, just dressing with the
intention to go out in the world, That's already enough.
(11:37):
OK, That already takes you calling on courage or that takes
being really fearful in the beginning, but knowing that So
if I keep on putting myself out there, maybe it will normalize
and normalize. And let's say this person was on
that track, right? They did it, yes.
And then suddenly something happens.
It's a bitch. No, you didn't.
You know what I mean? Like Nope.
(11:59):
I don't know if this came beforeor after their shopping
experience. Could you tell me that
information? I.
Don't know. No, that I don't know actually.
Because maybe they had a great experience at the mall.
Everything went great. Everyone was kind to them.
They were protected by the safe environment.
They may have even had some fun.They didn't have to go to the
bathroom because they didn't want to deal with that.
(12:20):
Whatever the circumstances mighthave been.
In my mind, I can imagine getting back in the car being
one of those things. Maybe not for you, but for many
people. One of those things was like,
OK, I'm going to make it to my house and then I'm going to go
home and check that off the list.
I made it through the hard part.The mall was great.
(12:40):
Let's just get home. And then when that gets
interrupted, it's like, oh man. I mean, oh woman.
I mean, definitely would interrupt any sort of endorphin
high from an amazing experience out.
Yeah, absolutely agree. I will have to ask whether it
was prior to them getting to theplace they wanted to be or not.
A couple things I want to do, since we're talking about these,
(13:03):
this kind of situation is like what to do in these situations.
Obviously with any accident, everybody should be getting out,
making sure that you're OK, making sure the others are OK.
Use typical and you get it. It's funny because I've been in
several accidents. I know the situation, but even
though I have been in accidents,the adrenaline and the panic and
(13:29):
the anxiety and stress of it, you forget all those typical
things you should be doing. I think we all know to get out,
check ourselves, check the others.
That second thing we typically do is we all look at the damage
point of the So it's what did you do to me?
What did you do to me? You put peanut butter in my
chocolate. No, you put chocolate in my
(13:49):
peanut butter. And so you do that and you like
assess the damage, you start photographing the damage.
And then obviously you're that next step, which is the crux of
this story, is exchanging information.
Why does your driver license notsay who you look like?
And in that you need to do just so.
The most important part of this part is you need to use your
(14:12):
legal documentation both for exchanging information with the
other driver and if necessary, if there is an accident report
that needs to be taken by the police.
You have to use the identity youhave official, state or federal,
whatever that information is. Your registration, your
insurance, your driver's license, all needs to match was
(14:35):
officially on your officially who you are, quote UN quote.
Now that may or may not apply because I am not that versed in
how transitioning folks are, especially in today's world
where your registration may be under your male name, but you
may have a new driver's license that has a female name.
So that I will not really get deeper into, but I'm sure
(14:55):
there's a little difficulty there when it starts
mismatching. But do please use whatever
official documentation you have because that is what's going to
be needed going forward. So that being said, I have
another story for you. So the response in the yes, the
response in the same friend group as that story was said,
this happened to me. So this was I know the feeling.
(15:19):
Early in my CD career I was travelling home late from one of
our bimonthly CD meetings, dozedoff and ran off the road through
a snow bank, into the yes and into the grass at an Interstate
exit. Luckily I woke up just in time
(15:40):
to miss a signpost and very lucky I had guy clothes in the
back seat. Well.
Yeah, I changed in the car but had to walk through the bitter
cold. I made it about halfway down the
exit ramp before an exceedingly kind couple stopped and asked if
I needed a ride. They took me home and didn't ask
(16:01):
about the makeup all. Right.
First of all, that's like a freaking movie.
So let's hope that this person at least wrote in a journal
because that is like an epic part of your CD journey or
however this person identifies. But if they didn't, and that was
just a story that they tucked away till this perfect moment to
(16:21):
bring it out and soothe the trauma of the the story you just
told prior to this moment, what a tale to tell.
I mean, I, I didn't laugh, but Icried.
And these people like you need aride.
They didn't comment on the makeup.
I really saw that visually, as if I was watching it on one of
these, I don't know, streaming services, but I, I really,
(16:45):
that's an amazing, harrowing journey.
It is, and we have mentioned this prior because I had another
friend on Long Island who kept, they called him Melissa in a
box. So they had their Feb clothes
and like a go bag of their of male clothes in case any
eventuality could happen. So that's another thing that we
(17:06):
could take away from this, not necessarily from a Fender
Bender, but because I don't think there's a need for that.
But if there was something more dire that happened, especially
in this case where it's like I was stuck in a snow bank and I'm
in heels in a dress, there may be a jacket that really wasn't
made for traveling and hitchhiking down the road.
(17:27):
To have a pair of winter boots that have something more
insulated and improper if you were to find yourself in a
situation where. Insulated.
Yeah. And but to have something that's
more made for the challenge ahead, like I can guarantee you
I don't have a shovel in my car.I don't have a blanket.
I don't have anything. If I were still in New York and
(17:51):
emergency, I'm on the side of the road in stock in the snow
bank, I would not be prepared whether it was for Chuck or for
Savannah, Important to be prepared.
And in this case, for both of these situations, be prepared
for just in case you get stuck, and be prepared in case you need
to make a quick change for some reason that would be more
applicable or appropriate for whatever situation to find
(18:14):
yourself in. So let me just say this, that if
a stranger was to see a damsel in distress versus some dude
that was just like walking on the road for me, I pull over for
a damsel. I'm just saying for that's all
I'm saying. So when we say mail mode closed,
I think that the major thing to say is that they had clothes
(18:36):
appropriate for the situation, at least for me, because if
there was, I don't know, excuse me, person who this happened to,
I totally accept what you said and thank goodness.
But for me, like I'm glad they had the boots, the waterproof
stuff, right? And it wasn't so much I have to
go outside and fam and I'm so shamed in the winter.
(18:56):
So let's thank goodness I had mymy LL Bean Parker and my
masculine man for hat. I just feel like I don't know
well. I, I think it just goes to being
prepared and I can guarantee youI am woefully.
I'm not prepared. Yeah, I'm woefully under
prepared myself in most situations.
I live down South now so I'm notworried about snow as much, but
(19:20):
floods happen. I could get hit by a deer on a
highway, which is very prevalentdown here.
So on the highway. So lots of things could happen
and I think at the very least weshould have a little something
emergency bag or duffel or something to cover most
eventualities. And also I want to make a
statement. Also on Long Island years ago, I
(19:42):
have a friend who experienced a hit and run and they were so
worried about the police. Well first of all, they didn't
even chase the person that hit and run them because they were
dressed in femme. They worried about get the
police involved because this wasback in the let's say lady in
his early 90s or it was even more not cool to be in femme as
(20:04):
a biological male and they decided just to call it a day
and go home. They basically just crunched
their way home in this car with the damage, took care of all the
repairs themselves because of the fact that in heat of concern
and worry. For the fact that, Oh no, I'm
going to be at blame somehow or in the wrong somehow because I
(20:27):
dress this way. Right and right.
And that to me feels really real.
To me, it feels like the person would rather have a leg that's
bleeding out and drive home withthe leg bleeding out.
I'm making up the story and it'snot going so well, but
especially compared to the wholeParker story.
(20:47):
I'm just saying, all right, for the listeners, the leg is
bleeding out and they could callthe the EMS emergency, the
EMT's, you know what I mean? The freaking.
But they don't want to because of the way they're dressed and
because if they were to get picked up wearing this wrap
dress and clip on hoop earrings with their full face of makeup,
(21:11):
not only could it be a harmful situation for this person, but
mainly it would out them to their family.
It would cause a lot of shame for possibly their business.
There'll be a slew of reasons onwhy this person is not choosing
safety. They're choosing safety.
Does that make sense? They're not choosing the safety
as if. Let me think about the safe
(21:31):
helpers that would help me in a emergency situation.
Let's say the police and ambulance, the fire station.
No, they're thinking about the safety and security of their
discretion when it comes to thispart for themselves.
When you're in that state of mind, maybe in their mind they
would rather bleed out than ever.
(21:51):
Ever expose themselves to a evenbigger moment where they have to
be exposed under lights and paperwork and money and
embarrassed and embarrassed for the people that are in their
lives. I could just crack this wide
open in my mind and heart and think about how a person who
experiences some trauma and doesn't want to reach out to the
(22:13):
quote appropriate channels for fear that they will get caught
for whatever society or the world views as wrong, unnatural,
not OK, not safe, unacceptable, no.
You're you're now in it. You're definitely now in it.
Which leads me to my second partof how to what to do and not in
(22:34):
a bleeding out situation. We would all like to think that
instead of taking that scarf offfrom around your neck and making
a tourniquet out of it and make yourself home to John Wick,
stitch yourself up. But that should go to the word 0
or get EMT involved. You have flaws, suddenly you
make it sew up the stitches situation and then you you
(22:55):
connect your eyelashes to createthe perfect exact.
So understanding, but understanding that we would make
a different choice because of how much concern we would have
about our discretion, which it sounds insane, but it's so
ingrained in us to be like or the first thing we need to do is
(23:15):
protect our identity in some way.
What I want to say about if you get into a Fender Bender, it's
it says how to navigate identityand presentation.
So the first thing was it is your right to present however
you choose. So just because your driver's
license says Chuck and I'm dressed up as Savannah, there's
nothing in my presentation that anything to do with the
(23:37):
accident. We should not have a concern
that has a relevancy to the accident.
But as we said earlier, we mighthave to explain ourselves a
little bit because like you said, that might be transphobic
people. There might be some trans
ignorant people. There might be, I don't know,
somebody in the police force that has an issue about it.
But it's our right to dress the way we want to dress in most
(24:01):
places. I have not looked up any laws to
say deep dark Tennessee is stillillegal for a man to dress as a
woman and you could be arrested.I'm sure that exists.
And please look at your localityto know like how true or not
true that is. But yes, you might have to
answer questions. You might have to unfortunately
defend why you're dressed one way and your your license says
(24:22):
something different. Stay factual.
Focus on the issue at hand because your presentation is not
the issue at hand is like, OK, we have an accident, we are
going to exchange information. Here's my insurance, but do we
need to call the police for a police report?
OK, do that. Call my insurance.
Do all the things that you typically would checklist and we
(24:43):
would tell our kids to do as they're learning to drive.
It's like, hey, Remy, and when you're learning to drive, Oh my.
God, stop it, it's too soon. I'm sorry, I'm saying there
should be a checklist that all of us are aware of because there
are so many times when it's the first time it ever happens to
us. What do I do?
I oh I should have done this when it happened.
(25:04):
Ready. You're like that.
You get in that panic fight or flight mode and suddenly you're
all right. I know what to do.
Can get quiet. That being said, an experienced
person versus someone doing thisfor the first time is a
completely different story, right?
And like, let's say someone comes to help you and you're
(25:24):
just like, you know, at the window.
Let's hope that the person can help you through this kind of,
you know, nothingness shock space to say, well, do you have
your registration? Do you have all this?
All the things on the list. Yeah, it is funny because I just
got my new tag, my new registration tag.
(25:45):
It starts September 1st, which is not passed.
And I think I told, I don't knowif I told you, but I was looking
like, hey man, where's my registration?
Because I don't know, I was feeling some weird sort of way
about where's my, my insurance card, where's my registration
card? I know I have my driver's
license on me all times. And I look at all my
registration, I could not find the current year's registration.
(26:07):
I found twelve other ones from like everyone up till the one
that I need to give to the cops if they first show up.
I'm like, thank God my registration is renewing.
So I can put that in a very specific spot that I always know
where it is. And I don't know for what
reason, but I've been very much like, OK, I need to get all
these things in alignment just to make sure that if somebody
(26:28):
get pulls me over or I'm in an accident, I have it all on this
quick little booklet just like here it is, I'm ready to go.
No, no hassle, no fuss. I've been watching a lot of cop
Cam videos and watching the person in the car try to find
the registration is so just sad and just painful to watch them
(26:49):
go through a stack of receipts in their box to try to find a
thing they can't find so I'm trying to be a little.
Man. Yeah, yeah.
So anyway, be prepared, have that checklist because I, like
you said, I have been very luckybecause either myself or the
driver I was a passenger in the car with.
(27:10):
There's always been two of us. If one person's in shock, the
other person could kind of go into action about, OK, taking
pictures, OK, call the person, do this.
And the other person. I was in one accident where the
driver of the car was taken awayin an ambulance.
EMTs came and said, do you need professional help?
This is she was in such shock that she's just kind of mumbled
(27:31):
yes. And they took her away.
And I, as a passenger, had to figure out the towing the rental
car, calling the insurance company.
And it wasn't like I was affected, but it was one of
those things where having two people is very helpful to get
through the situation. So of course.
In that way more tips is make sure you have all the right
(27:53):
information. As I said, document thoroughly.
And again, that's not your documents.
That is document the situation as thoroughly as you can.
And in the modern age of cell phones and cameras and video, we
can do all that. And now even more so, people are
talking about having those dash cams that's always running every
time you're driving so that you could have that as backup to
(28:16):
know that you were not at fault,that the other person ran the
way. So again, there's so many things
we could do. I know we're getting off the
gender topic and more about whatto do in these situations.
It's important because with the with the gender stuff on top of
it, yes, you want to make sure that you have organized your
list because making sure that you're prepared and organized
(28:39):
plus knowing that you're going to be dealing with all these
shock and shame and how I have to have this talk and what is
this person to say? It's a lot.
So making sure you at least havethe basics.
It's really important, especially being a trans person.
You know, it's kind of like being a person of color, being a
trans person. You, I think internally have or
(29:02):
how you were when you were coming out about your cross
dressing. You had a list of those
questions that you already knew from your experience that people
would ask. You were prepared because you
knew that that's where they'd go.
I think that that's also quite useful to start a checklist like
that as well, for one. And if something like this
happens, just put it in writing,make it a little more tangible
(29:26):
than in your head of fears. Come up with an action plan for
that so that you can, even if you have to review these lines
before going out, at least you'll feel safe and comforted
knowing that should this, God forbid happen, you already have
been rehearsing these steps and lists.
You know, my identities is different than my than what I
(29:48):
look like right now. I'm trans.
Like that kind of stuff is just as useful because shock is
shock. And as as much as I don't even
want to think about these thingshappening, because when I think
about these things happening, I'm worried that I'll manifest
them already. You saying I've been thinking
about getting prepared a lot. I'm just thankful that you said
I've been watching a lot of the cop shows because I'm like, oh,
(30:10):
God, is this an omen for something psychic about the
future? You know what I mean?
Like my Jewish superstitious nature, you could never be too
prepared when it comes from something like this, especially
when leaving the house as someone different than your
biology. Stay safe out there, especially
if you're driving alone, going to the mall alone.
(30:32):
So yeah. Yeah.
And if this whole idea of preparedness, and you brought up
the concept very early on this conversation about the
vulnerability, there's such a vulnerability of being in an
accident and having property damage and this thing that's
unexpected and you're never prepared for, even if you've
been in too many accidents, you've never prepared for the
next accident. So to be prepared when it is a
(30:55):
very vulnerable situation, number one.
And the last thing I want to throw in here is in those cases
of an accident that's a little more severe.
And you and I both saw this first hand at Keystone, OK,
where there may be the requirement or the need or the
want to have a additional card in your purse or in your wallet
(31:17):
that says this is who I am. Here's my pronouns.
I am dressed this way today. I am blah, blah, blah.
A card, a card, it's an accidentcard that if there's a reason
that you're incapacitated that that would allow some
understanding because you're notgoing to be able to possibly
verbalize it in that moment. But if you're like in shock and
(31:37):
you could just say hand this card over to somebody because
you're like make cognizant conversation to know that
that's. A great idea.
Yeah, again, we're talking aboutFender benders, but it's a
universal thing. Be prepared.
Have your information quickly inhand at all times because that
way it's just like it's a non thought.
It's like, oh, it's right here in this little black booklet I
(31:59):
have in my glove. Box an emergency contact also
like someone who if it's not, ifyou're not comfortable having
it, be your spouse. Is it your neighbor?
Who knows who is your girlfriendthat you can call at 3:00 in the
morning and would pick you up and would help you in this
situation? No one's going to judge you when
it comes to yourself and life saving skills.
(32:21):
If you put someone other than your spouse because you were in
a unique situation that is separate from your spouse
knowing or whatever it is, who is that person?
Have that conversation after this episode with that person
and say, hey, I was listening toan episode of can you be my
person? Because I'm not, I'm not out to
my family. As you know, discretion is 100%,
(32:44):
but I need to have a person and I love you.
Would you be willing to be that person?
And then you add that number in case of emergency, you know, and
then put the number and then putin brackets.
Use my female name, you know, you know, something like that.
All in the nature of preparing yourself for things that you
can't be prepared for, basically.
(33:05):
Absolutely, absolutely on that point exactly.
I think about it always in termsof my partner's always known and
will know that I'm going on a Savannah.
I forget those who are even closeted from their spouse
knowing the one thing I want to say about the first story is
their partner was away. Their wife was away on the girls
weekend and they said I'm back from my weekend.
(33:27):
Obviously did not check my phone.
Missed a lot including my spousegetting into an accident trans
mode. My bad.
I feel guilty and I'm sorry for not being present.
Sounds like you handled it amazingly well.
So I thought it was so sweet that she's like, Oh my God, I
wish I would have been there in case you need it.
Of course. Yeah.
(33:47):
I just wanted to say that because this spouse is a rock
star. Yeah, it's a lot.
And I just want to say thank youso much to the parties that were
involved and their spouses and everyone on this text that
really gave permission for us tohave this story read on our
episode. I think that it created some
important dialogue and it allowsour listeners to really hear new
(34:11):
bits and bobs of advice that maybe they can use, that maybe
we'll be a life saving, life changing bit of information.
Yeah, and the fact that I know several of my sisters who have
had this happen. So I know this is not like it
just happens to people around me.
It happens to everybody. And I'm sure our listeners each
(34:33):
have 5 stories they could tell us and share with us about share
it says in this and please sharewith that we'd love to have a
follow up episode talking about my time on the road and this is
what happened. Whether it's a car accident or
being pulled over or some strange hitchhiker, I don't
care. I want.
We want to hear it. I want to.
Hear So please, please, please give us all your commentary.
(34:56):
We would love to have an episodededicated to the strange
happenings on the road and how it went down and how you handled
it and what came of it. We would love that.
We would love that. I would love that too.
And I love you. I love you.
I was coming up with a post to suss out some of the gossips.
Was the strange gossip from a TGCD?
(35:18):
I'm literally writing this as I say it.
God the road. Yeah, on the.
Rd. Things that happen on the road.
On the road again, I got my heels and pearls and tit is with
me. I've got my map and I'm aware
that my false eyelashes are falling off on my cheek, but at
least there's a 711 where I knowsomeone named Steve.
(35:40):
I'm on the road again, someone named Steve.
As part of the whole song, now Iwant to know who Steve is.
Steve, Steve's also name is Shirley and they're in my CD
group, so they all right, what am I saying now?
I'm just like. Now we're now you're just.
Like. Yeah, you're just.
Improv. Oh yeah.
Freestyle your freestyle. One.
(36:01):
Yep. Love it, love that for you
because I know every so often you say, you know what?
I haven't sang enough on this show.
I. Do.
And here you are bringing it. I do, I do say that, yes.
So to all our listeners that have came on and they're like,
she says that please check out earlier episodes and get to know
(36:22):
us better. But we're glad we're here.
Absolutely. And I also want to say I'm so
happy to have you in my life allthese years.
It's like 6 years my love that we've.
Done here. No, it's not.
Yeah. 5. It's been a long time, darling.
Yeah, I remember we didn't just start the podcast day one, so.
Right. We started at like day 20, day
20. Oh, I wish we were that good
(36:45):
that early, but love to you and all to.
You all. The time we've been together,
it's been amazing so far and I can't wait for what comes next.
Yes, me too. OK, bye for now.
Until next time. Be safe out there y'all.
Yeah, please. And prepared, you can find me on
(37:07):
Facebook at Savannah Hawk or at Living with Cross Dressing and
on Instagram at Savannah Hawk. Remember, that's HAUK.
And to learn more, go to my website
livingwithcrossdressing.com. And you can find me on Instagram
and Facebook at Fox and Hanger or at Julie MTF Style, as well
as on our website at foxandhanger.com.
(37:34):
Julie, it's your moment. The Fox and the Phoenix podcast
uses Spotify for creators. Copyright 2025.
Yes, nailed it.
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