April 16, 2025 • 39 mins
In this episode, I sit down with entrepreneur and impact-driven business leader Tom Bilyeu to discuss the journey from startup to billion-dollar exit and the deeper personal costs of ambition. Tom opens up about the moment he saw life-changing wealth hit his bank account, only to realize that money doesn’t solve internal struggles. We dive into his relationship with his wife, Lisa, and how they navigate the balance between high-performance entrepreneurship and maintaining a strong marriage. Tom shares how he defines success, why skill acquisition is the key to freedom, and how he maintains his relentless drive while keeping his personal life intact. This conversation goes beyond business strategies—it’s about mindset, relationships, and personal growth. If you've ever wondered what happens after financial success or how to maintain a healthy marriage while chasing big dreams, this episode is for you.
Timestamps:
(00:00) - Introduction
(00:22) - Chris Visits Tom’s Studio
(01:04) - Billion-Dollar Exit: The Real Story
(02:33) - The Moment Money Hits Your Account
(03:47) - Money as a Tool vs. Self-Worth
(07:12) - The Thrill of the Chase
(08:32) - The Personal Cost of Success
(13:15) - Marriage, Relationships & Entrepreneurship
(17:03) - Prioritizing Marriage While Pursuing Success
(22:42) - The Balance Between Work & Love
(27:04) - The Importance of Understanding Your Partner
(31:55) - Making Relationships Work Long-Term
(38:08) - Chris & Tom Reflect on Ambition & Drive
(38:38) - Part Two Teaser: Creative Entrepreneurship
Check out today's guest, Tom Bilyeu:
Tom's Website: https://impacttheory.com/
Tom's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu
Tom's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/TomBilyeu
Check out The Futur:
Website: https://www.thefutur.com/
Courses: https://www.thefutur.com/shop
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-futur/
Podcasts: https://thefutur.com/podcast
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thefuturishere/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theFuturisHere/
Twitter: https://x.com/thefuturishere
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thefuturishere
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/thefuturishere
Check out Chris Do:
Website: https://zaap.bio/thechrisdo
LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/thechrisdo/
Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/BizOfDesign
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
All of your actions are goingto be downstream of your values.
So my number one value is mymarriage. Nothing has returned more
life is worth living dividendsthan my marriage. So my wife and
I state emphatically over andover that our marriage is our number
one priority. This is TomBilyeu and you're listening to the
(00:24):
Future.
It's not often that I'm ableto get out of the studio and oftentimes
when I'm trekking across LAand people are familiar with LA traffic,
really understand this, it isa nightmare. But here I am in Tom's
studio, his home, and it's anamazing setup. I'm in the belly of
the beast, the heart of theengine, and I'm really impressed
(00:46):
with what all you've done. Sotoday I hope to be able to ask you
some of the questions thatmaybe pull you into a space where
you might. It might get alittle saucy, as the kids say. Is
that okay?
I'm here for all the sauce.
So we've had a conversationprior to us going live that Tom's
encouraged me to push and pulland to pull in the threads and do
the deep follow up questions.So here's the thing, we'll just set
up this thing in case peopledon't know who you are. You have
(01:09):
exited, famously, out of acompany that you started with your
wife and partner and it'sreported as a billion dollars exit.
I've not had opportunities tosit in front of somebody where they've
achieved so much in suchlittle time. So if you don't mind,
I'd just like to pull on acouple of those strings.
Let's go.
Okay, so billion sounds like afreaking lot of money, everybody.
And it really does. So what isyour take home from that?
(01:31):
Money is far more powerfulthan people think, but it's not what
they think it is. So money isa great facilitator. It lets you
do things and that isincredible, but it doesn't make you
feel differently aboutyourself. So the awesome thing about
the way that I made money wasthat it was for years and years,
it was just on paper, onpaper, on paper. So I was worth hundreds
(01:52):
of millions of dollars and Iwas driving a beat up Ford Focus
with a leaky exhaust. And so Iused to laugh my ass off. I'm like,
this is hilarious. And thenone day you're on a call with like
nine lawyers and they're alllike, okay, release the funds, release
the funds, release the funds,release the funds. They're like,
all right, guys, It'll be inyour account in, like, three minutes.
And so you just sit there onyour banking app, like, hitting refresh.
(02:14):
And then all of a sudden,like, one refresh. Just a lot of
commas and zeros. And I'mlooking at my wife, and I'm like,
holy shit. Like, we did it.Like, this is crazy. And, oh, wow,
this is weird. All of myinsecurities are still here. So whatever
I thought might happen when Igot money, nope. Like, wherever you
go, there you are. Broke,you're going to be the same person.
(02:34):
Rich, you're going to be thesame person. But becoming the kind
of person that's able togenerate wealth, that's the game.
And so for me, luckily, Ilearned that in my early 20s and
realized, oh, I get it. Thisis a game of skill acquisition. And
if I can acquire enoughskills, then I literally can't be
told what I have to do. I canjust be so good at something, people
(02:55):
can't stop me. My favoritequote is from Kobe Bryant. Booze,
don't block dunks. And, oh,God, I love that so much that you
really can just becomeunstoppable. And so that whole moment
was really powerful for me torealize, okay, now I can build the
things that I want to build.And that is insane. That carries
with it something reallyprofound. And, I mean, look at what
(03:16):
we're going through now withElon Musk. He would not have the
opportunities that he has ifhe were just a really smart guy in
obscurity, but he's not. He'sa really smart guy that's put that
to use, generating a ton ofmoney so he can get politically involved,
building incredible companiesso he's got the proof of, like, this
is not a fluke. Like, I'm. Youknow, I mean, just the things he's
accomplished put him in atotally different league. So the
(03:37):
money is real. Money isinfluence. Money is power. You can
get people around you. Eitherthey want something from you because
you have the money, or you getto build things that you want is
a gravitational thing. Like,it. It distorts reality around it.
Very powerful. But I thinkpeople do think it will make them
think they're cool, and it won't.
So that moment that happenswhen you're, like, looking at your
(03:58):
bank account and those commasand the zeros start coming in. Can
you just take me back there intime? And, like, what did that emotionally
feel like for you? Just seeingthat? What's the story you're telling
yourself in that moment?
Okay, so in that Moment maynot be the most interesting thing.
I'll give you that. And thenI'll tell you maybe the far more
interesting moment. In thatmoment, I was thinking you're holding
(04:18):
your breath because you knowsomething could go wrong, that one
of the nine lawyers on thecall might be like, actually, wait,
guys, hold on. We can'tdistribute. So the whole time you're
doing all the paperwork, youjust keep saying to yourself, like,
are we really going to getthis across the finish line? Is this
really going to happen?Because you never know. Like, when
we finally sold. Sold thecompany, it was three months later
that Covid hit. So you neverknow. Like, if Covid hits right before
(04:41):
we sell, does that. Is itbetter? Is it worse? You never know.
But so you're always like, ah,anything could happen to the markets.
So that moment is more justthe relief of, like, oh, we actually
got this across the finishline. And then I think that moment
maybe was a little moresurprising to my wife than it was
to me, because she was like,oh, my God, like, we're so rich.
Like, what are we going to do?I was like, what do you mean? I'm
(05:02):
going to work? And she waslike, what? And I was like, yeah,
this is a normal day for me.I'm. I'm not going to suddenly be
the guy that made it. Like,I'm a certain way. I'm a builder.
I'm going into work. And ifyou had asked the average employee
at Quest, they would have noidea what day the money hit. They
just wouldn't know. I was inthe office, same as ever, was building,
(05:25):
trying to, like, get where Iwanted to go. That was a little jarring
for my wife. For her, she hadsacrificed for so many years before
becoming an entrepreneurherself that there was a lot of residual
of, like, I need there to be afinish line.
Yeah.
And so for her, I think thatfelt like, not like, okay, now we're
done, but like, that we wouldtake time off and we would go celebrate.
And so that was, oddly enough,there was a bit of friction between
(05:48):
us, where to be the person Ineeded to be. I needed to go to work.
For her to be the person sheneeded to be, she needed to say,
like, this is my life. I wantto celebrate this moment. So that
was interesting. Now, themoment that I think is really fascinating
in all this is before I gotthe money. And this, if you can hear
my voice, this is the moment.This is your whole life is about.
(06:10):
Every now and then, you'regoing to get what I'm about to describe,
which is, everything isworking. It's about to pay off. That's
the best moment. So the bestmoment in all of this was the first
day. Remember, I don't havethe money yet, but the first day,
I allowed myself to go mansionshopping and be like, I might actually
be able to afford this housein, like, three weeks. This is crazy.
(06:33):
And so I go from a kid fromTacoma who's always lived modestly
to I am in Bel Air, and I'mlooking at mansions, and I'm like,
if this goes through, I'll beable to afford that mansion. Like,
this is nuts. And I couldn'thelp myself. I would get up super
early and just drive out,because I used to go there to inspire
(06:55):
myself, to stay motivated. Iwould go drive around Bel Air and
be like, one day. One day, Oneday, one day. And all of a sudden,
I'm like, I'm three weeks fromthat one day. And I remember saying
to Lisa, like, this is sodangerous because something could
fall apart, and this will justbe emotionally devastating because
now I'm, like, really leaninginto this, but I'm like, I can't
help myself. I got to go doit. So that was sort of peak emotion.
(07:18):
It was actually before ithappened. And I've just found every
time in my life that somethingreally, like a pinnacle thing that
you're going to be like, I'llremember this thing forever. It's
the buildup to that moment isawesome. The moment itself is great,
and it has a lot of utility.But there's something about the dopamine
cycle. Dopamine isn't thereward for having. It's the pursuit
(07:40):
molecule. It's the thing thatmakes you chase. And so when you're
at that, like, oh, my God,I've gotten so good at running, and
I'm chasing, and I'm about tograb that thing. That is the coolest
part.
I got an opportunity to talkto Lisa briefly before this, and
she said it broke her, thiswhole pursuit. It took a toll on
her. So this is the story oftwo entrepreneurs. You're building
(08:02):
this thing together, and ifthe research is right, she's the
one who crafts the first barand helps you figure out this thing.
Right? And so it has taken atoll on her. And her thing is, we've
been running at this, and I'mready to take a break and celebrate.
So two entrepreneurs look atthe same, quite literally the exact
same circumstance. Becauseyou're in this two together, what
(08:23):
is it that makes you wired alittle bit Differently or what? Can
you draw upon these two verydifferent ways of looking at this
one moment that's about to happen?
Yeah. Well, so for historicalaccuracy, it was my other partner's
wife who made the first bar.
Okay, shout out to her.
I sucked Lisa into this veryshortly thereafter. And the way that
(08:43):
two people can look at thesame thing comes down to something
I call frame of reference. Soyour whole life, one, you're 50%
hardwired, and there's nothingyou're going to be able to do to
change that. We all have anessence. We have a personality. You
can see it when kids are very,very young, and then you have 50%
of you that's malleable, butit's being shaped from the time that
(09:04):
you're born. And so, arguably,the first three years are the most
important three years of yourdevelopment that's going to establish
who you're going to be for therest of your life. So Lisa and I
are just two different people.So already we have different frames
of reference. And then men andwomen are going to look at this stuff
very differently. And then ontop of that, like, just the things
(09:25):
that we reinforce in eachother are going to be very different.
And so my whole thing is,like, I value myself for getting
tougher, being stronger, beingable to endure that. This isn't just
about the money, because I hadto really turn a corner on that.
The first almost decade of myentrepreneurial career was just about
getting rich. That burned meout. And so another part of it was
(09:47):
just being true to the factthat I'm not just doing this for
the money. Money's a real partof it. And I'm still pursuing more
money despite all my success,but it's not just about that. And
so for me to take time off onthe day that I got the money was
like a betrayal of that. Andso that's just my frame of reference.
I'm not saying it'sempirically true. I'm just saying
(10:09):
with my frame of reference andall the things that I told myself
to stay motivated, all thevalues that I've built up, it just
wasn't in alignment to thentake that time off. The most gangster
way to be me was to go to workon the day that you just got enough
money, you never need to workagain. And so same when we started
Impact Theory. So we leaveImpact Theory, we've now been rich
for quite a while. And I leaveQuest on a Monday, and I start Impact
(10:35):
Theory the next morning,Tuesday. And that to me was like,
again, Just like, yo. Provingsomething to myself about who I am
and what I value. But I'm nottrying to persuade my wife to see
it the same because my frameof reference isn't right. It's just
right for me. And so I'malways a little bit worried that
(10:58):
my wife will get sucked intomy reality distortion field so far
that she's not having funanymore. So just physically, my wife
can't handle the levels ofstress that I can. So something won't
even make my radar asstressful. And my wife is like losing
weight and digestive system,which she struggled with for a very
long time, will start goinghaywire. And so we had to really
(11:21):
make a delineation and say,look, you're not valuable to the
company in that you can matchme hour for hour. You bring a totally
different skill set. Wecelebrate that. We identify it. This
is not some mystery like, oh,I just want to make her feel good.
She's unbelievably good atthings that I am just absolute trash
at. And so it's like, cool,you're not going to be able to match
me hour for hour, but you havea partner that can work those crazy
(11:41):
hours. So you should be stokedabout that. Just as I'm stoked about
somebody that has the skillset of an integrator that can actually
make sure I don't drive usoff, off a cliff. So we had to really
bring that stuff to theforefront so she wouldn't sort of
subconsciously go, well, I'mnot as valuable because I can't work
as much as you. You have tonavigate that stuff because the work
has to get done, somebody hasto do it. But especially because
(12:03):
I'm her husband, it's like Iwant to take the physical toll. I
want to be the one that goesout and hunts the mastodon and puts
myself at risk. And I want youto be safe. So it makes me feel good.
Good that I'm like drivingmyself like crazy over here, clocking.
At one point, I was working120 hours a week for eight months.
Not good. I don't advise it.It was misery. But when I was doing
(12:25):
it, I was like, I'm doing itso you don't have to. And that made
me feel really good. Now wehad to work with her to make sure
she didn't feel really badlybecause that was her initial impulse.
But yeah, it all boils down toframe of references.
I'm trying to keep track ofall the threads. I want to follow
up with you on but we're hereright now, so this hits home a lot
because a lot of people are inrelationships not at this level of
(12:47):
success, not this level ofstress or this workload. But you
said, you know, first of all,we're in this together. Don't feel
bad because I just operate ata different speed. That's awesome
that you did that. But whatabout the other side? I'm asking
more for me and my ownpersonal relationship here, where
it's like, hey, can you slowdown? And us time, Is it always about
the work? And how do youmanage that? Because I always admire
people who are able to buildthings together and still together
(13:09):
in a relationship. It's. It'sa miracle for me to see that when.
When that happens. So how doyou address that? Or is that even
an issue?
It's an issue every day. Soone value system is everything. All
of your actions are going tobe downstream of your values. So
my number one value is mymarriage. Nothing has returned more
life is worth living dividendsthan my marriage. So my wife and
(13:31):
I state emphatically over andover that our marriage is our number
one priority. So when I wasworking 120 hours for eight months,
finally I had to say to mywife, I will find my way back to
you. So I know that I'm nowstressing the marriage unduly. This
is not good for ourrelationship. And there's a thing
that I thought I would be ableto get on the other side of just
(13:52):
by outworking. It's not goingto work. I realized now I need a
different strategy. I'm goingto have to do less and find other
people that can make up someof the ground here. And so I said,
give me a couple months, andby the end of that, I will show you.
I will be back to you. Mystress levels will be back to me,
normal. My hours will be backto normal, and we'll be good. And
I did it. And so that ended upgiving a lot of credibility in that
(14:14):
I will get out of thosesituations. Now. At the end of that,
my wife said, this has leftscar tissue for me. So for eight
months, I basically had to goback to being the wife who just disengages
from her husband, who'sworking so much that I don't feel
like I'm in an activemarriage. And I was like, hey, that
is extremely fair. I now haveprotection mechanisms to make sure
(14:37):
I don't ever find myself backthere again. I understood what led
to it. Not going to do thatanymore. And we'll have to process
through to show you that I'mwilling to do the things, meaning
to corral the amount of timethat I spend working on the business
to make sure that you get whatyou need from a husband. So we have
found a thing. When I work 93hours a week, everything runs smooth.
(15:00):
And because I sleep so muchless than my wife, just naturally,
I don't set an alarm. Ihaven't set an alarm in over 15 years.
I just wake up after roughlysix hours. So we go to bed at the
same time. I wake up aftersix. She'll wake up after, like,
nine. So on a weekend, I canget six hours. So three hours Saturday,
three hours Sunday, justbefore she wakes up. Then on top
(15:22):
of that, there are things thatshe wants to do. So we call it selfish
time. So it's like you do yourselfish thing and I'll do my selfish
thing, which is work. And thenwe'll reconvene, say, at noon. And
then that's going to give usover the course of a weekend. I mean,
we end up clocking, like, atleast 10 hours a day together. So
now we've got 20 hours overthe weekend where it's just me as
a husband totally locked in.It's me and her. And because we're
(15:46):
building the businesstogether, even though I'm working
a lot, we're together. We'rein the same space with a shared dream
and objectives, and we areworking with each other to make that
work. And then on theweekends, I get the work done that
I need to get done to outpacemy competition. It's probably the
right way to think about itbecause this is a competition. And
then we have a line atnoonish, and then it's just husband
(16:08):
and wife thereon after. And wefound that works perfectly. Now we
don't have kids, so that'spart of the cheat code. But when
we stick to that, then it'slike she's emotionally fulfilled.
She feels connected. And I'vejust said, you're going to feel disconnected
before I will. So you are thecanary in the coal mine. If you ever
tell me I need more of yourtime, I'm going to give it to you,
(16:29):
no questions. Even if thatmeans the business slows down. Even
if that means that we lose amultimillion dollar opportunity.
Don't care. My marriage is mymost important thing. She's always
respectful. She's never goingto, like, suddenly be petty and be
like, I just want to see ifhe'll give me the time. Even though
I don't care. It's like sheonly says it when she really means
it and then I respect it everytime she says it. And we've been
able to manage that for, withthe exception of that one eight month
(16:51):
period, she's only had to saythat to me twice. So the first six
years I was a mess and thenthe 18 month period and the rest
of the time it's been, I won'tsay perfect, but it's been very high
functioning.
It's time for a quick break,but we'll be right back.
(17:15):
When I started my motiondesign company blind in 95, there
was a lot I didn't know. So Itried reaching out to other business
owners and professionals forhelp. What did I find? Many saw me
as competition and those whodidn't weren't able to give advice
that made sense for my line ofwork. Thankfully, I was able to find
my first and only businesscoach, Kier McLaren, who mentored
me for 13 years. I alsolearned that my story isn't unique.
(17:38):
Many entrepreneurs feel likethey're left to figure everything
out on their own. It's why Icreated the Future Pro Membership,
the community I wish I hadwhen I first started. And I'd like
to invite you to check out allthat we have waiting for you inside@thefuture.com
pro.
And Rebecca, welcome back toour conversation.
(18:00):
It's a weird question. I'llstay on the marriage thing for a
little bit longer because I'masking mostly in a very selfish way
here. How would you rankyourself as a husband on a scale
of 1 to 10, where you're like,I'm showing up as the best husband
I can be. And then how wouldthat be different than how she would
answer a question without youin the room?
Well, she would certainlyscore me lower than I would score
myself. This is where peoplejust have to understand the architecture
(18:22):
of the human mind. So I seemyself through my frame of reference
looking back at me as I thinkshe ought to look at me versus how
she actually looks. What wouldshe give me? She would probably give
me an 8 or a 9. And I wouldsay I'm as close to perfect as a
husband is ever going to get.I really mean that too, by the way.
(18:42):
Anything else would be falsemodesty because I have taken us from
clipping coupons to making aton of money. We've had a thriving
emotional relationship for 22years. Marriage been together even
longer than that. The timeswhere she has had problems, I've
addressed those problemsliterally at A foundational personality
(19:04):
level. The times, times whereI'm driving her absolutely crazy.
I don't say, hey, you're beingunreasonable here. I'm like, I want
to get to the point where Ican say to you your position in a
way that you're like, yes, youunderstand me completely. And so
we had this one big area offriction around. It was right after
the eight month thing. And Icame back to her and I'm like, I'm
here, I'm present again. Butshe had that scar tissue and I just
(19:26):
could not figure out what wasgoing on. And she kept saying that,
I want my husband back. AndI'm like, but wait, your husband
is back. I've solved all theseproblems. I'm a better man for it.
I'm stronger, stronger thanI've ever been. I mean, really, like,
it was the hardest period ofmy life, full stop. That is a true
statement. So I come out theother side, I get everything back.
I get my workload back inline. I was so stressed during that
(19:49):
period, I was getting vertigo.Like, all of my physical problems
go away. Like, I'm back, I'mback. And there was something still
that she couldn't put into away that I could understand. She
just, I want my husband back.I want my husband back. And so I
was getting like, reallyannoyed. And I'm like, man, I just
went through like theHerculean test, like the literal
Greek mythology, Hercules hasto clean the stables and all that
(20:12):
stuff, like nobody could doit. But he pulls it off and oh my
God. And so I feel like I justdid that. So finally I'm like, I'm
really trying to articulateback to her what I think she's saying.
And so finally I'm like, okay,I think I have it. Is it. When you
say you want your husbandback, is your husband defined as
somebody who can receive andbroadcast love? And she said, yes.
(20:35):
And I was like, okay. So I'mlike the very thing I'm taking pride
in, how strong I've become,how impervious to emotion, that I
just look at what needs to bedone and I do it and I grind through
and I find the essence ofwhere I'm trying to get to, that's
the very thing that's drivingyou crazy? Yes. Okay, got it. Now,
when you say I want my husbandback, you want me to be soft. You
(20:59):
want me to receive your lovein a very. All my armor is down.
You want me to broadcast loveto you in a really soft way. Kisses
on the neck Eye gazing,playfulness. None of the brute that's
had to just tear throughbusiness. I think of myself as a
(21:20):
warrior in a loincloth with asword covered in the blood of my
enemies. And that makes mefeel good about myself. But that
is not making you feel likeyou have the husband that you married
who was playful and silly andhad not yet been scarred by 10,000
failures and challenges fromthe outside world. She's like, yes,
yes, yes. Like, cool. Now Iget it. I had a hard time translating
(21:43):
those words. But now that Iget where we're at, now I can give
you what you need. So anyway,I read all of that and I say, man,
I don't know if most guys havethe self awareness to get here. They
either stay stuck in theoverwork or when the wife's like,
I need my husband back. Andyou're super proud of yourself and
you're like, what the fuck?This chick is crazy. So I think a
(22:05):
lot of people derail in thosemoments, and I didn't. But my wife
has to put up with a guy whothinks of himself as a warrior holding
a sword and a loincloth,covered in the blood of his enemies,
and has to like consciouslystep out of that and be in husband
mode. So I do feel her painthat I have gone way, way out of
my way to slather myself inarmor to be a fighter, which is not
(22:29):
who she married in herdefense. So I think she would probably
give me an 8 or a 9. But Ithink all men should act like I act.
God, that's so horriblyegotistical, but nonetheless true.
Act by how you act in terms tobe able to take the armor off and
be vulnerable and there, or togo out and get the blood on the armor.
All of it, okay?
(22:49):
All of it is the thing. Youhave to be able to switch gears.
You have to like. The thing inall of that that I'm most proud of
is I ask myself, what do Ihave to do to be successful in business?
I have to get a lot tougher. Ihave to be willing to say hard things,
hear hard things, face all thedifficulties that come with business,
get punched in the face overand over and over, fail a lot, fail
publicly, be embarrassed.Like, all of it. All of it, all of
(23:11):
it. Cool. Then as a husband,you have to go, I can't write her
off. So however she'sapproaching this, even though the
way that women process theworld is so alien to me that I'm
just like, whoa, okay, Iaccept that it is true. But If I
place a value judgment onthat, which is what most men do,
women act this way, and it iscrazy. Now you have a problem. So
(23:34):
I was like, okay, women actthis way. It's very different than
how I process the world. ButI'm going to step inside her shoes
without judgment, and I'mgoing to look back at myself and
try to see what I look likefrom her perspective. Which is why
I was like, oh, you wantsomebody who's soft in an embodied
way. Like the literalantithesis of what I've just spent
the last 20 years doing to mypsyche. I see that. I don't judge
(23:56):
that. That is what you need.Cool, then. Now it's my job to develop
that gear. And so Lisa and Ido a lot of relationship content.
And when I really think about,okay, how have we been able to last
22 years in a highfunctioning, emotionally connected
relationship? It's all thatcomplexity. And so I know better
(24:17):
than to trust that I'mactually a 10. Like, whatever my
wife tells you, if she saysI'm a six, that's probably closer
to the truth. I don't know ifyou had her give me a score, but
I would guess it's somewherearound there. But if it wasn't and
it was lower, I'd be like,okay, I'm open to that.
Yeah. I can't help but justsay this, that a lot of what you're
saying so aligns with the wayI think of myself. So I'm having,
like, a strange outer bodyexperience where you're articulating
(24:40):
things I've said in differentways, obviously, but that I felt.
And here's the one thing Ihave to ask you, because I'm trying
to look at myself now from adifferent point of view. Right. Is
when you say our marriage isour priority. My wife, if she were
here, she's like, it's notyour priority because you want to
go and read and you want to godo workshops and you want to create
(25:01):
content and you want to justpush, push, push. And we don't need
that anymore. We have enough.Let's chill out. Being vulnerable
here, it's something thatwe're still working through. It's
a big struggle because mydescription to her is like, the guy
that you fell in love with isthe guy who was going to make sure
we're financially okay todefend off enemies at the gate. So
(25:21):
I always tell my wife, theperson you married is the person
who would provide financial,emotional, physical security for
you. And that's what I becameActually, I didn't become that. I
was already that person. Ithink just like how I think you see
yourself, blood on your hands,and then now we're at a time of peace
and prosperity, and they wantyou to hang up the armor and get
fat and lazy. And then theydon't know that sometimes an enemy
(25:44):
can come in the gates, and nowyou're not prepared, but they want
someone else now because theyfeel like that part of their life
is over. And so if youcontinue down that path, the feeling
that get that's communicatedto me is, I want to be your priority.
And I don't feel like I amyour priority. And so how, when you
say that, I'm just curious,what are some things that you can
do? Put it in very tangibleways where you act as if that is
(26:05):
the priority.
Okay, so first I have toestablish what I said to her at the
very beginning of ourrelationship is this is before we
were married. I said, you canask me to give up virtually anything,
and I will do it, but youcan't ever ask me to give up my ambition.
I don't want to know who I amwithout my ambition. And so when
(26:25):
you look at somebody like KobeBryant, he went from winning basketball
championships to retiring andthen winning an Academy Award and
was moving into a totallydifferent phase of his career, but
with the same level ofintensity and pursuit that made him
great at basketball. Andanybody that marries that type of
(26:46):
person and then thinks thatthere's a finish line, they don't
understand the fundamentalarchitecture of that person's mind.
So I am not a person who isgoing to ever be chilling around
the house and feel good aboutmyself, not and be the person that
I am. I am a pursuit machine.I was put on this earth to pursue.
(27:08):
Now, as long as I'm pointed atthings that are honorable to pursue,
it's great. So my wife hasunderstood from the very beginning
of time that, hey, this is whoI am. It's the one thing you can't
ask me to give up. But now, toyour point, what are the tangible
things that I do to make surethat I'm actually prioritizing the
(27:28):
marriage? It was. What doesthat look like for you? Dear Lisa,
my wife. Define being therefor you, and then I will do those
things. And so a big part ofit just was. There is a certain number
of hours that we need to spendtogether every week where you're
not pursuing while we'retogether. By all means. In the morning
(27:52):
before I wake up, while I'mdoing my Selfish thing, go crazy,
pursue. But once we cometogether now, pursue being the best
husband ever. And so in thatwe find things that we love doing
together. And I won't lie,here are ways that I blend this.
I build a video game that's abig part of my identity. Storytelling
(28:12):
game creation. So I decidedabout five or six years ago that
I was going to try to get mywife into playing video games. So
that way I could be having funbecause I love playing them. I could
be sharing something with mywife because we play co op competitive
games so we're on the sameteam against other people, which,
whether it's pickleball orvideo games, I don't care. But get
(28:34):
something like that if yourboth personalities line up with that.
And it also allows me to like,oh, there's a new game that I want
to try out because I need thatfor the gaming side of our world.
And so just for a while waslike, hey, I'd really love it if
you would try this video game.And so we ended up exchanging. She
wanted me to be present whenshe went shopping and to be engaged
(28:55):
and not like, if you see wherewomen will park their husband, they
actually have in Korea, Ithink they're called husband. Like
parking lots. Yeah. So I said,cool, I'll go shopping with you.
But like, as if this is myeverything. And so when I go shopping
with my wife, which admittedlynow is not very often, but back in
the day, like, that was aretail therapy for her, was like
a thing. And so we would goshopping and I would be looking for
(29:17):
clothes that I found excitingthat I wanted to see her try on.
I was right outside the spacegiving her advice. When she would
come out and be like, oh, Ilike that. No, I don't like that.
Oh my God, you could combinethis with that. What about those
shoes at home? I mean, I wasin it. And so first of all, that
allowed me to trigger thatpart of myself that's like, okay,
if we're going to play the mywife fashion game, I'm going to use
my pursuit mechanism. I'mgoing to be the greatest. Like, I'm
(29:39):
going to look at rad stuff.I'm going to find things that she
thinks is dope. And so I'mgoing to fully engage myself while
I'm here not looking at myphone, not anything. This is about
her also. Gentlemen, I don'tknow if you have more men or women
in your audience. Gentlemen,women like to be the center of sexual
attention. So if you've everwondered why they pose for photos
in a way that would make youfeel ridiculous. It's because they
(30:02):
love to be looked at likethat. So when my wife's trying on
clothes, I'm fully engaged.I'm trying to like, what are the
things that legitimately, I'mlike, ooh, you look good in that.
And so now she's like, shegets to be the center of that attention,
and I'm legitimately engaged.And so now I'm like, I'd love it
if you play games with me. Andshe's like, oh, my God, you were
so amazing when we wentshopping. And, yeah, I'm going to
play. I don't want to playthat long, but I'll play for an hour,
(30:24):
whatever. And then over time,because you've got to be smart about
it. I'm getting her to playthings that I know she's actually
going to do well at. And thenI'm infinite patience. When she first
started, I wasn't trying towin. I was trying to make sure she
had a good time. Because I'mlike, if I invest in this in the
long run, and so infinitepatience playing games that I know
that she'll like. We're on thesame team. We're fighting for the
(30:45):
same thing in game. If I finda good weapon, I'm going to give
it to her. All the things tomake her feel special and seen and
appreciated and all that. Andthen she likes playing. And so you
do things like that, andeverything's a compromise, but you
find ways where it's like,this is really a shared activity.
Like, we played pickleballtogether the other day. It was so
fun. So finding things likethat where you're like, I love this
(31:08):
thing, and this meets mywife's definition of this is quality
time. And now all of a sudden,it's awesome. But if you don't get
them to define what they thinkmeets that need, you're going to
have a problem, because you'regoing to think you're meeting it
and they're not. So you getthat defined, and then you find ways
where you can both have alegitimately good time doing it.
(31:30):
I'm going to air this one. Forfolks that are in a relationship,
you did a very logical, Ithink, male energy thing, which is
to tell me what it is that youwant. And I would be happy to meet
you there, as long as she cantell me I've done these things before.
And then my wife will saysomething like, no, I just want you
to figure it out. Because meTelling you robs me of the reward,
(31:51):
that you're prioritizing thisbecause the argument comes back.
No one tells you to show up towork and hit certain goals. You tell
yourself that, and you figureout what's needed and you look for
gaps because your mind isfocused on that. And I think what
she's saying to me is, I wantthat same intensity, the energy to
solve the problem. Problem ofwhat do we need to do together versus
(32:12):
what is it you want? And goingon the checklist, you know, the way
she communicates it to me, itfeels like that's what's happening.
It's very robotic, analyticalthing. And do you have any thoughts
on that?
A whole bunch. So, one, Iwould say it's something I call trapping
people in their values. So I'mgoing to ask her, what are the things
that she believes and that shevalues? And then we're just going
to go down the line so that Ican get her what she wants, but I'm
(32:35):
going to get her to define it.So let's say that I start saying,
okay, do you think men andwomen are the same? No, I do not.
Okay, cool. In what ways arethey different? Let's say she maps
those out. Okay, so do youthink that men need to act like women
with their wife in order toplease them? Yes, I do. Oh, interesting.
Okay, cool. So define how youwant a man to act around his woman.
(33:00):
I want him to be soft. Right.The whole thing that my wife did,
and maybe she doesn't saythat's being, like, female. Whatever.
I don't care what it is. Ijust want to know how she's defining
all of this in her mind. Now Istart asking all these questions,
and she's going to be like,oh, my God, you're already robbing
this of the romance. Chris,come on. Like the whole point of
this was for you to figurethis out, not make this, like another
one of your marketing videoswhere you're figuring out how all
(33:22):
the things work. You're justturning me into an algorithm. This
is so grotesque. And so you'relike, okay, remember when we said
that men and women aredifferent? So here's the reality
I must understand before I canact in a way that you're going to
find useful. So please forgiveme my foibles, if I could accurately
read your mind, I would. Butthe reality is you have superpowers.
(33:45):
As a woman, I literally don'tpossess them. I'm not trolling you.
I'm not trying to wind you up.I'm Trying to use the only skills
that I have at my disposal inorder to be amazing for you. So if
you can forgive me that thisprocess will be a little clunky,
but it's going to result inthe thing that you need. And by the
way, if what you really needis girlfriends that you can hang
(34:07):
out with, that just totallyget it, and there's no translation.
You guys all see the world thesame way. Please don't feel that
that's a betrayal of me or ourmarriage. I get it. If there's a
feminine energy that you needthat I'll never be able to give you,
I totally understand. In themeantime, though, I want to get to
the point where I can say backto you what you want from me in a
way that you're like, yes, youunderstand my position perfectly.
(34:28):
Now, let's say as we walkthrough all that, she's like, no,
for real. I can't enjoy itunless you figure it out. Cool. You
don't have a problem withthat? You don't expect the algorithms
to tell you exactly what worksand what doesn't. Part of what has
made you you is that you'vebeen able to look at human behavior
as it marries with analgorithm. Go, oh, I know how to
do this. Turn your wife intothat. So your wife now becomes an
(34:52):
equally thrilling a B test ofI'm going to. Honey, make her. Bring
her in on it, Honey, I'm goingto try all these things with you.
What she really cares about,whether she's going to be able to
articulate it or not, is thislook where she's like, oh, shit,
he's really looking at me.He's really trying to understand
me. He's really trying to getto what I want. And then if it's
like, okay, cool, here's adeal. For your birthday, for our
(35:15):
anniversary, for Valentine'sDay, whatever her big ones are for
a random Friday, maybe everyFriday, like every Friday, I'm going
to figure out from you whatthe thing is that you most want this
week on that Friday. Andthat's going to be the game. And
so every morning, you put aquestion up on the fridge, or every
morning, if you guys wake upat the same time, you ask three questions
(35:36):
and you make it a game, right?I only get three questions each day,
but by Friday, I'm going toknow the thing that would make you
feel. And now she's like, oh,damn, he's really doing the thing
now. Look, some of that shemight be like, no, I hate this game.
This is boring, whatever. Butthen you try something else. You
try something else. You trysomething else. There ultimately
is a thing that she wants aslong as you make her articulate what
it is so that, you know, Ijust need to know that I'm actually
(35:58):
making you happy. If you makethis a guessing game that only a
woman could pass, you're goingto be forever frustrated. That's
not fair on you. It's not fairon me. And so one question that I
will ask my wife a lot is, doyou think I'm upsetting you on purpose?
If the answer is yes, then wehave to address that. If she's like,
no, I don't think you'reupsetting me on purpose. Okay, is
(36:18):
it maybe that I lack a certainskill? Yeah, it probably is that.
Okay, what skill do you thinkI lack? And then you start going
down. So she's like, it'sexactly this. This is the exact problem.
Okay, cool. Here's how I wantto address it. The only place that
is game breaking is if shesecretly, though, can't articulate
it, wants you to be a woman.Because then you can't win because
(36:41):
you don't process the world inthat way. And then one thing Lisa
and I found is there's justbeen a series of videos where it
will be a big breakthrough forher when she's like, that's what
you were trying to say? Yes.So I'll find a woman that will say
the exact thing I've beensaying. Like the one that we got
recently was this woman goesin this really awesome diatribe about
(37:02):
men, like quests, they want toknow, I need to do this thing, and
it's going to make you happy.And then I will go do that thing,
no matter how hard it is. Now,once Lisa heard a woman say it, she
was like, oh, so I'm actuallynot being a pain in the ass when
I say, could you go get me aglass of water? You actually want
to go do that thing for me?Yes. And so. But I need you to tell
me, I would like a glass ofwater and I would like you to go
(37:24):
get it. Then I'm like, ah,word. I got this. And so that was
a big breakthrough for readingthe female brain. Was a big breakthrough
for both of us understandingjust that the female brain works
in a different way. So it'sgoing to be a whole host of things
like that. But you have tohave a shared vision of how people
ought to act and a sharedvision of how men and women differ
(37:45):
and how each of you differ andthen what of those differences we're
going to tolerate and whichones we're going to be like? You
know, I can't that part of it.I need you to shelve.
That was a lot. I wasn'tplanning on going down this relationship
thing, but I felt like I wastalking to Amir for some of this
conversation, so that wassuper helpful to me. Just out of
curiosity, what is yourfavorite game to play together?
(38:07):
Video game Fortnite. Thatgamers can take Fortnite's existence
for granted is crazy. As agame developer, I will tell you how
hard every bit of polish inthat game is obscenely difficult.
It is optimized to be one ofthe most fun, competitive shooters
you're ever going to play.I've played a ton of them. It's unbelievable.
(38:28):
Thanks for checking out thisepisode with Tom. As you heard, we
went deep into the personalside of success and how it impacts
relationships. But that's justthe beginning. Part two is coming
your way in a couple of days.In it, we're going to switch it up
and go deep into the mindsetand strategies behind creative entrepreneurship.
And trust me, we don't see eyeto eye on everything, so you don't
want to miss it.
(38:53):
Thanks for joining us. If youhaven't already, subscribe to our
show on your favoritepodcasting app and get new insightful
episodes from us every week.The Future Podcast is hosted by Chris
do and produced and edited byRich Cardona Media. Thank you to
Adam Sanborn for interviewIntro music. If you enjoyed this
episode, then do us a favor byreviewing and rating our show on
(39:15):
Apple Podcasts. It will helpus grow the show and make future
episodes that much better. Ifyou'd like to support the show and
invest in yourself whileyou're at it, visit thefuture.com
and you'll find video courses,digital products, and a bunch of
helpful resources about designand the creative business. Thanks
again for listening and we'llsee you next time.
All of your actions are goingto be downstream of your values.
So my number one value is mymarriage. Nothing has returned more
life is worth living dividendsthan my marriage. So my wife and
I state emphatically over andover that our marriage is our number
one priority. This is TomBilyeu and you're listening to the
(00:24):
Future.
It's not often that I'm ableto get out of the studio and oftentimes
when I'm trekking across LAand people are familiar with LA traffic,
really understand this, it isa nightmare. But here I am in Tom's
studio, his home, and it's anamazing setup. I'm in the belly of
the beast, the heart of theengine, and I'm really impressed
(00:46):
with what all you've done. Sotoday I hope to be able to ask you
some of the questions thatmaybe pull you into a space where
you might. It might get alittle saucy, as the kids say. Is
that okay?
I'm here for all the sauce.
So we've had a conversationprior to us going live that Tom's
encouraged me to push and pulland to pull in the threads and do
the deep follow up questions.So here's the thing, we'll just set
up this thing in case peopledon't know who you are. You have
(01:09):
exited, famously, out of acompany that you started with your
wife and partner and it'sreported as a billion dollars exit.
I've not had opportunities tosit in front of somebody where they've
achieved so much in suchlittle time. So if you don't mind,
I'd just like to pull on acouple of those strings.
Let's go.
Okay, so billion sounds like afreaking lot of money, everybody.
And it really does. So what isyour take home from that?
(01:31):
Money is far more powerfulthan people think, but it's not what
they think it is. So money isa great facilitator. It lets you
do things and that isincredible, but it doesn't make you
feel differently aboutyourself. So the awesome thing about
the way that I made money wasthat it was for years and years,
it was just on paper, onpaper, on paper. So I was worth hundreds
(01:52):
of millions of dollars and Iwas driving a beat up Ford Focus
with a leaky exhaust. And so Iused to laugh my ass off. I'm like,
this is hilarious. And thenone day you're on a call with like
nine lawyers and they're alllike, okay, release the funds, release
the funds, release the funds,release the funds. They're like,
all right, guys, It'll be inyour account in, like, three minutes.
And so you just sit there onyour banking app, like, hitting refresh.
(02:14):
And then all of a sudden,like, one refresh. Just a lot of
commas and zeros. And I'mlooking at my wife, and I'm like,
holy shit. Like, we did it.Like, this is crazy. And, oh, wow,
this is weird. All of myinsecurities are still here. So whatever
I thought might happen when Igot money, nope. Like, wherever you
go, there you are. Broke,you're going to be the same person.
(02:34):
Rich, you're going to be thesame person. But becoming the kind
of person that's able togenerate wealth, that's the game.
And so for me, luckily, Ilearned that in my early 20s and
realized, oh, I get it. Thisis a game of skill acquisition. And
if I can acquire enoughskills, then I literally can't be
told what I have to do. I canjust be so good at something, people
(02:55):
can't stop me. My favoritequote is from Kobe Bryant. Booze,
don't block dunks. And, oh,God, I love that so much that you
really can just becomeunstoppable. And so that whole moment
was really powerful for me torealize, okay, now I can build the
things that I want to build.And that is insane. That carries
with it something reallyprofound. And, I mean, look at what
(03:16):
we're going through now withElon Musk. He would not have the
opportunities that he has ifhe were just a really smart guy in
obscurity, but he's not. He'sa really smart guy that's put that
to use, generating a ton ofmoney so he can get politically involved,
building incredible companiesso he's got the proof of, like, this
is not a fluke. Like, I'm. Youknow, I mean, just the things he's
accomplished put him in atotally different league. So the
(03:37):
money is real. Money isinfluence. Money is power. You can
get people around you. Eitherthey want something from you because
you have the money, or you getto build things that you want is
a gravitational thing. Like,it. It distorts reality around it.
Very powerful. But I thinkpeople do think it will make them
think they're cool, and it won't.
So that moment that happenswhen you're, like, looking at your
(03:58):
bank account and those commasand the zeros start coming in. Can
you just take me back there intime? And, like, what did that emotionally
feel like for you? Just seeingthat? What's the story you're telling
yourself in that moment?
Okay, so in that Moment maynot be the most interesting thing.
I'll give you that. And thenI'll tell you maybe the far more
interesting moment. In thatmoment, I was thinking you're holding
(04:18):
your breath because you knowsomething could go wrong, that one
of the nine lawyers on thecall might be like, actually, wait,
guys, hold on. We can'tdistribute. So the whole time you're
doing all the paperwork, youjust keep saying to yourself, like,
are we really going to getthis across the finish line? Is this
really going to happen?Because you never know. Like, when
we finally sold. Sold thecompany, it was three months later
that Covid hit. So you neverknow. Like, if Covid hits right before
(04:41):
we sell, does that. Is itbetter? Is it worse? You never know.
But so you're always like, ah,anything could happen to the markets.
So that moment is more justthe relief of, like, oh, we actually
got this across the finishline. And then I think that moment
maybe was a little moresurprising to my wife than it was
to me, because she was like,oh, my God, like, we're so rich.
Like, what are we going to do?I was like, what do you mean? I'm
(05:02):
going to work? And she waslike, what? And I was like, yeah,
this is a normal day for me.I'm. I'm not going to suddenly be
the guy that made it. Like,I'm a certain way. I'm a builder.
I'm going into work. And ifyou had asked the average employee
at Quest, they would have noidea what day the money hit. They
just wouldn't know. I was inthe office, same as ever, was building,
(05:25):
trying to, like, get where Iwanted to go. That was a little jarring
for my wife. For her, she hadsacrificed for so many years before
becoming an entrepreneurherself that there was a lot of residual
of, like, I need there to be afinish line.
Yeah.
And so for her, I think thatfelt like, not like, okay, now we're
done, but like, that we wouldtake time off and we would go celebrate.
And so that was, oddly enough,there was a bit of friction between
(05:48):
us, where to be the person Ineeded to be. I needed to go to work.
For her to be the person sheneeded to be, she needed to say,
like, this is my life. I wantto celebrate this moment. So that
was interesting. Now, themoment that I think is really fascinating
in all this is before I gotthe money. And this, if you can hear
my voice, this is the moment.This is your whole life is about.
(06:10):
Every now and then, you'regoing to get what I'm about to describe,
which is, everything isworking. It's about to pay off. That's
the best moment. So the bestmoment in all of this was the first
day. Remember, I don't havethe money yet, but the first day,
I allowed myself to go mansionshopping and be like, I might actually
be able to afford this housein, like, three weeks. This is crazy.
(06:33):
And so I go from a kid fromTacoma who's always lived modestly
to I am in Bel Air, and I'mlooking at mansions, and I'm like,
if this goes through, I'll beable to afford that mansion. Like,
this is nuts. And I couldn'thelp myself. I would get up super
early and just drive out,because I used to go there to inspire
(06:55):
myself, to stay motivated. Iwould go drive around Bel Air and
be like, one day. One day, Oneday, one day. And all of a sudden,
I'm like, I'm three weeks fromthat one day. And I remember saying
to Lisa, like, this is sodangerous because something could
fall apart, and this will justbe emotionally devastating because
now I'm, like, really leaninginto this, but I'm like, I can't
help myself. I got to go doit. So that was sort of peak emotion.
(07:18):
It was actually before ithappened. And I've just found every
time in my life that somethingreally, like a pinnacle thing that
you're going to be like, I'llremember this thing forever. It's
the buildup to that moment isawesome. The moment itself is great,
and it has a lot of utility.But there's something about the dopamine
cycle. Dopamine isn't thereward for having. It's the pursuit
(07:40):
molecule. It's the thing thatmakes you chase. And so when you're
at that, like, oh, my God,I've gotten so good at running, and
I'm chasing, and I'm about tograb that thing. That is the coolest
part.
I got an opportunity to talkto Lisa briefly before this, and
she said it broke her, thiswhole pursuit. It took a toll on
her. So this is the story oftwo entrepreneurs. You're building
(08:02):
this thing together, and ifthe research is right, she's the
one who crafts the first barand helps you figure out this thing.
Right? And so it has taken atoll on her. And her thing is, we've
been running at this, and I'mready to take a break and celebrate.
So two entrepreneurs look atthe same, quite literally the exact
same circumstance. Becauseyou're in this two together, what
(08:23):
is it that makes you wired alittle bit Differently or what? Can
you draw upon these two verydifferent ways of looking at this
one moment that's about to happen?
Yeah. Well, so for historicalaccuracy, it was my other partner's
wife who made the first bar.
Okay, shout out to her.
I sucked Lisa into this veryshortly thereafter. And the way that
(08:43):
two people can look at thesame thing comes down to something
I call frame of reference. Soyour whole life, one, you're 50%
hardwired, and there's nothingyou're going to be able to do to
change that. We all have anessence. We have a personality. You
can see it when kids are very,very young, and then you have 50%
of you that's malleable, butit's being shaped from the time that
(09:04):
you're born. And so, arguably,the first three years are the most
important three years of yourdevelopment that's going to establish
who you're going to be for therest of your life. So Lisa and I
are just two different people.So already we have different frames
of reference. And then men andwomen are going to look at this stuff
very differently. And then ontop of that, like, just the things
(09:25):
that we reinforce in eachother are going to be very different.
And so my whole thing is,like, I value myself for getting
tougher, being stronger, beingable to endure that. This isn't just
about the money, because I hadto really turn a corner on that.
The first almost decade of myentrepreneurial career was just about
getting rich. That burned meout. And so another part of it was
(09:47):
just being true to the factthat I'm not just doing this for
the money. Money's a real partof it. And I'm still pursuing more
money despite all my success,but it's not just about that. And
so for me to take time off onthe day that I got the money was
like a betrayal of that. Andso that's just my frame of reference.
I'm not saying it'sempirically true. I'm just saying
(10:09):
with my frame of reference andall the things that I told myself
to stay motivated, all thevalues that I've built up, it just
wasn't in alignment to thentake that time off. The most gangster
way to be me was to go to workon the day that you just got enough
money, you never need to workagain. And so same when we started
Impact Theory. So we leaveImpact Theory, we've now been rich
for quite a while. And I leaveQuest on a Monday, and I start Impact
(10:35):
Theory the next morning,Tuesday. And that to me was like,
again, Just like, yo. Provingsomething to myself about who I am
and what I value. But I'm nottrying to persuade my wife to see
it the same because my frameof reference isn't right. It's just
right for me. And so I'malways a little bit worried that
(10:58):
my wife will get sucked intomy reality distortion field so far
that she's not having funanymore. So just physically, my wife
can't handle the levels ofstress that I can. So something won't
even make my radar asstressful. And my wife is like losing
weight and digestive system,which she struggled with for a very
long time, will start goinghaywire. And so we had to really
(11:21):
make a delineation and say,look, you're not valuable to the
company in that you can matchme hour for hour. You bring a totally
different skill set. Wecelebrate that. We identify it. This
is not some mystery like, oh,I just want to make her feel good.
She's unbelievably good atthings that I am just absolute trash
at. And so it's like, cool,you're not going to be able to match
me hour for hour, but you havea partner that can work those crazy
(11:41):
hours. So you should be stokedabout that. Just as I'm stoked about
somebody that has the skillset of an integrator that can actually
make sure I don't drive usoff, off a cliff. So we had to really
bring that stuff to theforefront so she wouldn't sort of
subconsciously go, well, I'mnot as valuable because I can't work
as much as you. You have tonavigate that stuff because the work
has to get done, somebody hasto do it. But especially because
(12:03):
I'm her husband, it's like Iwant to take the physical toll. I
want to be the one that goesout and hunts the mastodon and puts
myself at risk. And I want youto be safe. So it makes me feel good.
Good that I'm like drivingmyself like crazy over here, clocking.
At one point, I was working120 hours a week for eight months.
Not good. I don't advise it.It was misery. But when I was doing
(12:25):
it, I was like, I'm doing itso you don't have to. And that made
me feel really good. Now wehad to work with her to make sure
she didn't feel really badlybecause that was her initial impulse.
But yeah, it all boils down toframe of references.
I'm trying to keep track ofall the threads. I want to follow
up with you on but we're hereright now, so this hits home a lot
because a lot of people are inrelationships not at this level of
(12:47):
success, not this level ofstress or this workload. But you
said, you know, first of all,we're in this together. Don't feel
bad because I just operate ata different speed. That's awesome
that you did that. But whatabout the other side? I'm asking
more for me and my ownpersonal relationship here, where
it's like, hey, can you slowdown? And us time, Is it always about
the work? And how do youmanage that? Because I always admire
people who are able to buildthings together and still together
(13:09):
in a relationship. It's. It'sa miracle for me to see that when.
When that happens. So how doyou address that? Or is that even
an issue?
It's an issue every day. Soone value system is everything. All
of your actions are going tobe downstream of your values. So
my number one value is mymarriage. Nothing has returned more
life is worth living dividendsthan my marriage. So my wife and
(13:31):
I state emphatically over andover that our marriage is our number
one priority. So when I wasworking 120 hours for eight months,
finally I had to say to mywife, I will find my way back to
you. So I know that I'm nowstressing the marriage unduly. This
is not good for ourrelationship. And there's a thing
that I thought I would be ableto get on the other side of just
(13:52):
by outworking. It's not goingto work. I realized now I need a
different strategy. I'm goingto have to do less and find other
people that can make up someof the ground here. And so I said,
give me a couple months, andby the end of that, I will show you.
I will be back to you. Mystress levels will be back to me,
normal. My hours will be backto normal, and we'll be good. And
I did it. And so that ended upgiving a lot of credibility in that
(14:14):
I will get out of thosesituations. Now. At the end of that,
my wife said, this has leftscar tissue for me. So for eight
months, I basically had to goback to being the wife who just disengages
from her husband, who'sworking so much that I don't feel
like I'm in an activemarriage. And I was like, hey, that
is extremely fair. I now haveprotection mechanisms to make sure
(14:37):
I don't ever find myself backthere again. I understood what led
to it. Not going to do thatanymore. And we'll have to process
through to show you that I'mwilling to do the things, meaning
to corral the amount of timethat I spend working on the business
to make sure that you get whatyou need from a husband. So we have
found a thing. When I work 93hours a week, everything runs smooth.
(15:00):
And because I sleep so muchless than my wife, just naturally,
I don't set an alarm. Ihaven't set an alarm in over 15 years.
I just wake up after roughlysix hours. So we go to bed at the
same time. I wake up aftersix. She'll wake up after, like,
nine. So on a weekend, I canget six hours. So three hours Saturday,
three hours Sunday, justbefore she wakes up. Then on top
(15:22):
of that, there are things thatshe wants to do. So we call it selfish
time. So it's like you do yourselfish thing and I'll do my selfish
thing, which is work. And thenwe'll reconvene, say, at noon. And
then that's going to give usover the course of a weekend. I mean,
we end up clocking, like, atleast 10 hours a day together. So
now we've got 20 hours overthe weekend where it's just me as
a husband totally locked in.It's me and her. And because we're
(15:46):
building the businesstogether, even though I'm working
a lot, we're together. We'rein the same space with a shared dream
and objectives, and we areworking with each other to make that
work. And then on theweekends, I get the work done that
I need to get done to outpacemy competition. It's probably the
right way to think about itbecause this is a competition. And
then we have a line atnoonish, and then it's just husband
(16:08):
and wife thereon after. And wefound that works perfectly. Now we
don't have kids, so that'spart of the cheat code. But when
we stick to that, then it'slike she's emotionally fulfilled.
She feels connected. And I'vejust said, you're going to feel disconnected
before I will. So you are thecanary in the coal mine. If you ever
tell me I need more of yourtime, I'm going to give it to you,
(16:29):
no questions. Even if thatmeans the business slows down. Even
if that means that we lose amultimillion dollar opportunity.
Don't care. My marriage is mymost important thing. She's always
respectful. She's never goingto, like, suddenly be petty and be
like, I just want to see ifhe'll give me the time. Even though
I don't care. It's like sheonly says it when she really means
it and then I respect it everytime she says it. And we've been
able to manage that for, withthe exception of that one eight month
(16:51):
period, she's only had to saythat to me twice. So the first six
years I was a mess and thenthe 18 month period and the rest
of the time it's been, I won'tsay perfect, but it's been very high
functioning.
It's time for a quick break,but we'll be right back.
(17:15):
When I started my motiondesign company blind in 95, there
was a lot I didn't know. So Itried reaching out to other business
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as competition and those whodidn't weren't able to give advice
that made sense for my line ofwork. Thankfully, I was able to find
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(17:38):
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the community I wish I hadwhen I first started. And I'd like
to invite you to check out allthat we have waiting for you inside@thefuture.com
pro.
And Rebecca, welcome back toour conversation.
(18:00):
It's a weird question. I'llstay on the marriage thing for a
little bit longer because I'masking mostly in a very selfish way
here. How would you rankyourself as a husband on a scale
of 1 to 10, where you're like,I'm showing up as the best husband
I can be. And then how wouldthat be different than how she would
answer a question without youin the room?
Well, she would certainlyscore me lower than I would score
myself. This is where peoplejust have to understand the architecture
(18:22):
of the human mind. So I seemyself through my frame of reference
looking back at me as I thinkshe ought to look at me versus how
she actually looks. What wouldshe give me? She would probably give
me an 8 or a 9. And I wouldsay I'm as close to perfect as a
husband is ever going to get.I really mean that too, by the way.
(18:42):
Anything else would be falsemodesty because I have taken us from
clipping coupons to making aton of money. We've had a thriving
emotional relationship for 22years. Marriage been together even
longer than that. The timeswhere she has had problems, I've
addressed those problemsliterally at A foundational personality
(19:04):
level. The times, times whereI'm driving her absolutely crazy.
I don't say, hey, you're beingunreasonable here. I'm like, I want
to get to the point where Ican say to you your position in a
way that you're like, yes, youunderstand me completely. And so
we had this one big area offriction around. It was right after
the eight month thing. And Icame back to her and I'm like, I'm
here, I'm present again. Butshe had that scar tissue and I just
(19:26):
could not figure out what wasgoing on. And she kept saying that,
I want my husband back. AndI'm like, but wait, your husband
is back. I've solved all theseproblems. I'm a better man for it.
I'm stronger, stronger thanI've ever been. I mean, really, like,
it was the hardest period ofmy life, full stop. That is a true
statement. So I come out theother side, I get everything back.
I get my workload back inline. I was so stressed during that
(19:49):
period, I was getting vertigo.Like, all of my physical problems
go away. Like, I'm back, I'mback. And there was something still
that she couldn't put into away that I could understand. She
just, I want my husband back.I want my husband back. And so I
was getting like, reallyannoyed. And I'm like, man, I just
went through like theHerculean test, like the literal
Greek mythology, Hercules hasto clean the stables and all that
(20:12):
stuff, like nobody could doit. But he pulls it off and oh my
God. And so I feel like I justdid that. So finally I'm like, I'm
really trying to articulateback to her what I think she's saying.
And so finally I'm like, okay,I think I have it. Is it. When you
say you want your husbandback, is your husband defined as
somebody who can receive andbroadcast love? And she said, yes.
(20:35):
And I was like, okay. So I'mlike the very thing I'm taking pride
in, how strong I've become,how impervious to emotion, that I
just look at what needs to bedone and I do it and I grind through
and I find the essence ofwhere I'm trying to get to, that's
the very thing that's drivingyou crazy? Yes. Okay, got it. Now,
when you say I want my husbandback, you want me to be soft. You
(20:59):
want me to receive your lovein a very. All my armor is down.
You want me to broadcast loveto you in a really soft way. Kisses
on the neck Eye gazing,playfulness. None of the brute that's
had to just tear throughbusiness. I think of myself as a
(21:20):
warrior in a loincloth with asword covered in the blood of my
enemies. And that makes mefeel good about myself. But that
is not making you feel likeyou have the husband that you married
who was playful and silly andhad not yet been scarred by 10,000
failures and challenges fromthe outside world. She's like, yes,
yes, yes. Like, cool. Now Iget it. I had a hard time translating
(21:43):
those words. But now that Iget where we're at, now I can give
you what you need. So anyway,I read all of that and I say, man,
I don't know if most guys havethe self awareness to get here. They
either stay stuck in theoverwork or when the wife's like,
I need my husband back. Andyou're super proud of yourself and
you're like, what the fuck?This chick is crazy. So I think a
(22:05):
lot of people derail in thosemoments, and I didn't. But my wife
has to put up with a guy whothinks of himself as a warrior holding
a sword and a loincloth,covered in the blood of his enemies,
and has to like consciouslystep out of that and be in husband
mode. So I do feel her painthat I have gone way, way out of
my way to slather myself inarmor to be a fighter, which is not
(22:29):
who she married in herdefense. So I think she would probably
give me an 8 or a 9. But Ithink all men should act like I act.
God, that's so horriblyegotistical, but nonetheless true.
Act by how you act in terms tobe able to take the armor off and
be vulnerable and there, or togo out and get the blood on the armor.
All of it, okay?
(22:49):
All of it is the thing. Youhave to be able to switch gears.
You have to like. The thing inall of that that I'm most proud of
is I ask myself, what do Ihave to do to be successful in business?
I have to get a lot tougher. Ihave to be willing to say hard things,
hear hard things, face all thedifficulties that come with business,
get punched in the face overand over and over, fail a lot, fail
publicly, be embarrassed.Like, all of it. All of it, all of
(23:11):
it. Cool. Then as a husband,you have to go, I can't write her
off. So however she'sapproaching this, even though the
way that women process theworld is so alien to me that I'm
just like, whoa, okay, Iaccept that it is true. But If I
place a value judgment onthat, which is what most men do,
women act this way, and it iscrazy. Now you have a problem. So
(23:34):
I was like, okay, women actthis way. It's very different than
how I process the world. ButI'm going to step inside her shoes
without judgment, and I'mgoing to look back at myself and
try to see what I look likefrom her perspective. Which is why
I was like, oh, you wantsomebody who's soft in an embodied
way. Like the literalantithesis of what I've just spent
the last 20 years doing to mypsyche. I see that. I don't judge
(23:56):
that. That is what you need.Cool, then. Now it's my job to develop
that gear. And so Lisa and Ido a lot of relationship content.
And when I really think about,okay, how have we been able to last
22 years in a highfunctioning, emotionally connected
relationship? It's all thatcomplexity. And so I know better
(24:17):
than to trust that I'mactually a 10. Like, whatever my
wife tells you, if she saysI'm a six, that's probably closer
to the truth. I don't know ifyou had her give me a score, but
I would guess it's somewherearound there. But if it wasn't and
it was lower, I'd be like,okay, I'm open to that.
Yeah. I can't help but justsay this, that a lot of what you're
saying so aligns with the wayI think of myself. So I'm having,
like, a strange outer bodyexperience where you're articulating
(24:40):
things I've said in differentways, obviously, but that I felt.
And here's the one thing Ihave to ask you, because I'm trying
to look at myself now from adifferent point of view. Right. Is
when you say our marriage isour priority. My wife, if she were
here, she's like, it's notyour priority because you want to
go and read and you want to godo workshops and you want to create
(25:01):
content and you want to justpush, push, push. And we don't need
that anymore. We have enough.Let's chill out. Being vulnerable
here, it's something thatwe're still working through. It's
a big struggle because mydescription to her is like, the guy
that you fell in love with isthe guy who was going to make sure
we're financially okay todefend off enemies at the gate. So
(25:21):
I always tell my wife, theperson you married is the person
who would provide financial,emotional, physical security for
you. And that's what I becameActually, I didn't become that. I
was already that person. Ithink just like how I think you see
yourself, blood on your hands,and then now we're at a time of peace
and prosperity, and they wantyou to hang up the armor and get
fat and lazy. And then theydon't know that sometimes an enemy
(25:44):
can come in the gates, and nowyou're not prepared, but they want
someone else now because theyfeel like that part of their life
is over. And so if youcontinue down that path, the feeling
that get that's communicatedto me is, I want to be your priority.
And I don't feel like I amyour priority. And so how, when you
say that, I'm just curious,what are some things that you can
do? Put it in very tangibleways where you act as if that is
(26:05):
the priority.
Okay, so first I have toestablish what I said to her at the
very beginning of ourrelationship is this is before we
were married. I said, you canask me to give up virtually anything,
and I will do it, but youcan't ever ask me to give up my ambition.
I don't want to know who I amwithout my ambition. And so when
(26:25):
you look at somebody like KobeBryant, he went from winning basketball
championships to retiring andthen winning an Academy Award and
was moving into a totallydifferent phase of his career, but
with the same level ofintensity and pursuit that made him
great at basketball. Andanybody that marries that type of
(26:46):
person and then thinks thatthere's a finish line, they don't
understand the fundamentalarchitecture of that person's mind.
So I am not a person who isgoing to ever be chilling around
the house and feel good aboutmyself, not and be the person that
I am. I am a pursuit machine.I was put on this earth to pursue.
(27:08):
Now, as long as I'm pointed atthings that are honorable to pursue,
it's great. So my wife hasunderstood from the very beginning
of time that, hey, this is whoI am. It's the one thing you can't
ask me to give up. But now, toyour point, what are the tangible
things that I do to make surethat I'm actually prioritizing the
(27:28):
marriage? It was. What doesthat look like for you? Dear Lisa,
my wife. Define being therefor you, and then I will do those
things. And so a big part ofit just was. There is a certain number
of hours that we need to spendtogether every week where you're
not pursuing while we'retogether. By all means. In the morning
(27:52):
before I wake up, while I'mdoing my Selfish thing, go crazy,
pursue. But once we cometogether now, pursue being the best
husband ever. And so in thatwe find things that we love doing
together. And I won't lie,here are ways that I blend this.
I build a video game that's abig part of my identity. Storytelling
(28:12):
game creation. So I decidedabout five or six years ago that
I was going to try to get mywife into playing video games. So
that way I could be having funbecause I love playing them. I could
be sharing something with mywife because we play co op competitive
games so we're on the sameteam against other people, which,
whether it's pickleball orvideo games, I don't care. But get
(28:34):
something like that if yourboth personalities line up with that.
And it also allows me to like,oh, there's a new game that I want
to try out because I need thatfor the gaming side of our world.
And so just for a while waslike, hey, I'd really love it if
you would try this video game.And so we ended up exchanging. She
wanted me to be present whenshe went shopping and to be engaged
(28:55):
and not like, if you see wherewomen will park their husband, they
actually have in Korea, Ithink they're called husband. Like
parking lots. Yeah. So I said,cool, I'll go shopping with you.
But like, as if this is myeverything. And so when I go shopping
with my wife, which admittedlynow is not very often, but back in
the day, like, that was aretail therapy for her, was like
a thing. And so we would goshopping and I would be looking for
(29:17):
clothes that I found excitingthat I wanted to see her try on.
I was right outside the spacegiving her advice. When she would
come out and be like, oh, Ilike that. No, I don't like that.
Oh my God, you could combinethis with that. What about those
shoes at home? I mean, I wasin it. And so first of all, that
allowed me to trigger thatpart of myself that's like, okay,
if we're going to play the mywife fashion game, I'm going to use
my pursuit mechanism. I'mgoing to be the greatest. Like, I'm
(29:39):
going to look at rad stuff.I'm going to find things that she
thinks is dope. And so I'mgoing to fully engage myself while
I'm here not looking at myphone, not anything. This is about
her also. Gentlemen, I don'tknow if you have more men or women
in your audience. Gentlemen,women like to be the center of sexual
attention. So if you've everwondered why they pose for photos
in a way that would make youfeel ridiculous. It's because they
(30:02):
love to be looked at likethat. So when my wife's trying on
clothes, I'm fully engaged.I'm trying to like, what are the
things that legitimately, I'mlike, ooh, you look good in that.
And so now she's like, shegets to be the center of that attention,
and I'm legitimately engaged.And so now I'm like, I'd love it
if you play games with me. Andshe's like, oh, my God, you were
so amazing when we wentshopping. And, yeah, I'm going to
play. I don't want to playthat long, but I'll play for an hour,
(30:24):
whatever. And then over time,because you've got to be smart about
it. I'm getting her to playthings that I know she's actually
going to do well at. And thenI'm infinite patience. When she first
started, I wasn't trying towin. I was trying to make sure she
had a good time. Because I'mlike, if I invest in this in the
long run, and so infinitepatience playing games that I know
that she'll like. We're on thesame team. We're fighting for the
(30:45):
same thing in game. If I finda good weapon, I'm going to give
it to her. All the things tomake her feel special and seen and
appreciated and all that. Andthen she likes playing. And so you
do things like that, andeverything's a compromise, but you
find ways where it's like,this is really a shared activity.
Like, we played pickleballtogether the other day. It was so
fun. So finding things likethat where you're like, I love this
(31:08):
thing, and this meets mywife's definition of this is quality
time. And now all of a sudden,it's awesome. But if you don't get
them to define what they thinkmeets that need, you're going to
have a problem, because you'regoing to think you're meeting it
and they're not. So you getthat defined, and then you find ways
where you can both have alegitimately good time doing it.
(31:30):
I'm going to air this one. Forfolks that are in a relationship,
you did a very logical, Ithink, male energy thing, which is
to tell me what it is that youwant. And I would be happy to meet
you there, as long as she cantell me I've done these things before.
And then my wife will saysomething like, no, I just want you
to figure it out. Because meTelling you robs me of the reward,
(31:51):
that you're prioritizing thisbecause the argument comes back.
No one tells you to show up towork and hit certain goals. You tell
yourself that, and you figureout what's needed and you look for
gaps because your mind isfocused on that. And I think what
she's saying to me is, I wantthat same intensity, the energy to
solve the problem. Problem ofwhat do we need to do together versus
(32:12):
what is it you want? And goingon the checklist, you know, the way
she communicates it to me, itfeels like that's what's happening.
It's very robotic, analyticalthing. And do you have any thoughts
on that?
A whole bunch. So, one, Iwould say it's something I call trapping
people in their values. So I'mgoing to ask her, what are the things
that she believes and that shevalues? And then we're just going
to go down the line so that Ican get her what she wants, but I'm
(32:35):
going to get her to define it.So let's say that I start saying,
okay, do you think men andwomen are the same? No, I do not.
Okay, cool. In what ways arethey different? Let's say she maps
those out. Okay, so do youthink that men need to act like women
with their wife in order toplease them? Yes, I do. Oh, interesting.
Okay, cool. So define how youwant a man to act around his woman.
(33:00):
I want him to be soft. Right.The whole thing that my wife did,
and maybe she doesn't saythat's being, like, female. Whatever.
I don't care what it is. Ijust want to know how she's defining
all of this in her mind. Now Istart asking all these questions,
and she's going to be like,oh, my God, you're already robbing
this of the romance. Chris,come on. Like the whole point of
this was for you to figurethis out, not make this, like another
one of your marketing videoswhere you're figuring out how all
(33:22):
the things work. You're justturning me into an algorithm. This
is so grotesque. And so you'relike, okay, remember when we said
that men and women aredifferent? So here's the reality
I must understand before I canact in a way that you're going to
find useful. So please forgiveme my foibles, if I could accurately
read your mind, I would. Butthe reality is you have superpowers.
(33:45):
As a woman, I literally don'tpossess them. I'm not trolling you.
I'm not trying to wind you up.I'm Trying to use the only skills
that I have at my disposal inorder to be amazing for you. So if
you can forgive me that thisprocess will be a little clunky,
but it's going to result inthe thing that you need. And by the
way, if what you really needis girlfriends that you can hang
(34:07):
out with, that just totallyget it, and there's no translation.
You guys all see the world thesame way. Please don't feel that
that's a betrayal of me or ourmarriage. I get it. If there's a
feminine energy that you needthat I'll never be able to give you,
I totally understand. In themeantime, though, I want to get to
the point where I can say backto you what you want from me in a
way that you're like, yes, youunderstand my position perfectly.
(34:28):
Now, let's say as we walkthrough all that, she's like, no,
for real. I can't enjoy itunless you figure it out. Cool. You
don't have a problem withthat? You don't expect the algorithms
to tell you exactly what worksand what doesn't. Part of what has
made you you is that you'vebeen able to look at human behavior
as it marries with analgorithm. Go, oh, I know how to
do this. Turn your wife intothat. So your wife now becomes an
(34:52):
equally thrilling a B test ofI'm going to. Honey, make her. Bring
her in on it, Honey, I'm goingto try all these things with you.
What she really cares about,whether she's going to be able to
articulate it or not, is thislook where she's like, oh, shit,
he's really looking at me.He's really trying to understand
me. He's really trying to getto what I want. And then if it's
like, okay, cool, here's adeal. For your birthday, for our
(35:15):
anniversary, for Valentine'sDay, whatever her big ones are for
a random Friday, maybe everyFriday, like every Friday, I'm going
to figure out from you whatthe thing is that you most want this
week on that Friday. Andthat's going to be the game. And
so every morning, you put aquestion up on the fridge, or every
morning, if you guys wake upat the same time, you ask three questions
(35:36):
and you make it a game, right?I only get three questions each day,
but by Friday, I'm going toknow the thing that would make you
feel. And now she's like, oh,damn, he's really doing the thing
now. Look, some of that shemight be like, no, I hate this game.
This is boring, whatever. Butthen you try something else. You
try something else. You trysomething else. There ultimately
is a thing that she wants aslong as you make her articulate what
it is so that, you know, Ijust need to know that I'm actually
(35:58):
making you happy. If you makethis a guessing game that only a
woman could pass, you're goingto be forever frustrated. That's
not fair on you. It's not fairon me. And so one question that I
will ask my wife a lot is, doyou think I'm upsetting you on purpose?
If the answer is yes, then wehave to address that. If she's like,
no, I don't think you'reupsetting me on purpose. Okay, is
(36:18):
it maybe that I lack a certainskill? Yeah, it probably is that.
Okay, what skill do you thinkI lack? And then you start going
down. So she's like, it'sexactly this. This is the exact problem.
Okay, cool. Here's how I wantto address it. The only place that
is game breaking is if shesecretly, though, can't articulate
it, wants you to be a woman.Because then you can't win because
(36:41):
you don't process the world inthat way. And then one thing Lisa
and I found is there's justbeen a series of videos where it
will be a big breakthrough forher when she's like, that's what
you were trying to say? Yes.So I'll find a woman that will say
the exact thing I've beensaying. Like the one that we got
recently was this woman goesin this really awesome diatribe about
(37:02):
men, like quests, they want toknow, I need to do this thing, and
it's going to make you happy.And then I will go do that thing,
no matter how hard it is. Now,once Lisa heard a woman say it, she
was like, oh, so I'm actuallynot being a pain in the ass when
I say, could you go get me aglass of water? You actually want
to go do that thing for me?Yes. And so. But I need you to tell
me, I would like a glass ofwater and I would like you to go
(37:24):
get it. Then I'm like, ah,word. I got this. And so that was
a big breakthrough for readingthe female brain. Was a big breakthrough
for both of us understandingjust that the female brain works
in a different way. So it'sgoing to be a whole host of things
like that. But you have tohave a shared vision of how people
ought to act and a sharedvision of how men and women differ
(37:45):
and how each of you differ andthen what of those differences we're
going to tolerate and whichones we're going to be like? You
know, I can't that part of it.I need you to shelve.
That was a lot. I wasn'tplanning on going down this relationship
thing, but I felt like I wastalking to Amir for some of this
conversation, so that wassuper helpful to me. Just out of
curiosity, what is yourfavorite game to play together?
(38:07):
Video game Fortnite. Thatgamers can take Fortnite's existence
for granted is crazy. As agame developer, I will tell you how
hard every bit of polish inthat game is obscenely difficult.
It is optimized to be one ofthe most fun, competitive shooters
you're ever going to play.I've played a ton of them. It's unbelievable.
(38:28):
Thanks for checking out thisepisode with Tom. As you heard, we
went deep into the personalside of success and how it impacts
relationships. But that's justthe beginning. Part two is coming
your way in a couple of days.In it, we're going to switch it up
and go deep into the mindsetand strategies behind creative entrepreneurship.
And trust me, we don't see eyeto eye on everything, so you don't
want to miss it.
(38:53):
Thanks for joining us. If youhaven't already, subscribe to our
show on your favoritepodcasting app and get new insightful
episodes from us every week.The Future Podcast is hosted by Chris
do and produced and edited byRich Cardona Media. Thank you to
Adam Sanborn for interviewIntro music. If you enjoyed this
episode, then do us a favor byreviewing and rating our show on
(39:15):
Apple Podcasts. It will helpus grow the show and make future
episodes that much better. Ifyou'd like to support the show and
invest in yourself whileyou're at it, visit thefuture.com
and you'll find video courses,digital products, and a bunch of
helpful resources about designand the creative business. Thanks
again for listening and we'llsee you next time.
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