342 - Winning Requires More Than Just Mindset - With Tom Bilyeu (Part 2) - The Futur with Chris Do

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome back to part two of myconversation with Tom Dilyeu. If
you haven't heard part oneyet, go check it out. We talked about
the reality of making millionsand how it can affect your relationships
or marriage and why moneydoesn't change who you are at your
core. In this half, we touchon something every creative and entrepreneur
needs to hear. Why so manytalented people never succeed. We

(00:20):
break down the real reasonspeople stay stuck, the mindset shifts
that actually matter and whyjust being good at what you do isn't
enough. Trust me, we don'tagree on it all. Enjoy the episode.
This is Tom Bilyeu and you'relistening to the future.

(00:45):
You didn't give me a number.Is that on purpose?
What number? No, give. I'm noteven sure what that means.
The take home from this exitfor a billion dollar company. Oh,
like what's, yeah, what is,what is. No, not the net worth, just
like what was the number?Because here's something like a lot
of people who look at peoplewho are like, oh, I've ex out of
this. Well, there's investors,there's partners, and then there

(01:06):
are IRS concerns. So it'snever as big as what.
I tell people is nine figures.
Okay, so nine figures. So yousaid something that I want to pull
back up or to kind of circleback to, which is the money doesn't
change you. Who you are beforeyou make the money is who you're
going to be after you make themoney. So you're a driven, motivated

(01:26):
person who has got a lot ofambition. And so just because money
was deposited account doesn'tchange you overnight. And you said.
I think I'm paraphrasing here.Hopefully. I got this idea, right?
It's about the pursuit ofbecoming a better person. That's
really interesting. That's thegame that you're playing. Did I get
that right?
Yeah.
Okay. And so what would yousay to folks who, and I get a lot
of people like, oh, what isyour goal? I just want to make money.

(01:48):
I said you might make money,but the pursuit of money isn't usually
what leads to you actuallymaking money.
Ironic but true.
Okay, so for those people,because that's, that's my audience,
they're like, okay, how come Idon't have money? Why am I always
fighting to kind of make endsmeet? And they, they want to get
there and I believe they canget there. It's not tactic.
You give them as you have to.

(02:08):
Be a different person.
Well, I know your audience hasheard it a million times. But yes.
Okay, so number one, I thinkthe pursuit of money is a hollow
pursuit. Money, for me is ascorecard of impact that you make.
You know, so the more impactthat you can make on people's lives,
the more money you will get asa reward. That's more purposeful,
at least for me, and it's morealigned with the creative entrepreneurs

(02:29):
I usually talk to. But impactto me isn't about, like, helping
people make more money. Itcould just be improving their relationships
or inspiring you, or givingyou just that one moment in your
day where you've been feelingkind of down and you read something,
you hear something, you watchsomething, it just changes your mood
or perspective for a moment.Or you make people feel connected
in a community. You hold spacefor folks to. To be seen, to be heard,

(02:51):
and to be understood. You makepeople feel loved. You help people
overcome grief. Impact can bemeasured in a lot of different dimensions.
Can we fight about this?
Yeah, please, let's do it.
Here is the hard reality.Being a good person is a terrible
business model. Meaning, be agood person, don't be a good person.

(03:12):
That's not going to matter.And we live in this weird age where
people think, I'm a goodperson, therefore I'm going to be
able to impact people and I'mgoing to make a lot of money. No,
you have to be business savvy.Like, you actually have to know how
to structure a deal. You haveto know how to do a sales funnel,
which I imagine a lot ofpeople in your community care about.
You can do those well, you cando those poorly. So you might have
somebody that is justunbelievably gifted at impacting.

(03:35):
Like, if you're sitting acrossfrom them, they're going to impact
you. But they don't even havea funnel. They don't know how to
do content. They're notlooking at algorithms. And so the
thing that I had to learn thehard way in my own life and with
other people is you have to bea good person and be business savvy.
And getting business savvy isexcruciatingly difficult. And most
people don't even know whatthat means. So I get what you mean

(03:58):
in that if somebody focuses ontactics but they don't have the product
that they put in, the worldisn't effective. It doesn't do for
the person what the personneeds it to do for them to pay money
for it. You're 100% correct.But let's say that you do have a
product that has that impact.On people. But maybe it's a little
too delayed. Maybe it's alittle too hard to explain. It won't

(04:18):
go anywhere. So if I tried tolaunch Quest today, it wouldn't go
anywhere. It's already beendone. It was that we did it before
anybody else. So now timingbecomes a part of why they don't
have any money. And then, oh,God, please be mad. Yell, scream,
challenge me. But I will makea statement that I hate more than
you can imagine. But I believethat this is true. This is a game

(04:39):
of skill acquisition andintelligence matters. And people
need to really think aboutwhether they have the ability to
problem solve novel problemswell enough or if they should be
the number two or number threefor somebody who is more aligned
with that and able to do it.And I think we've built mythology

(05:01):
that everybody could be anentrepreneur, and they're just not
yet. And I think the realityis, how much risk are you willing
to take? How much sufferingare you willing to take? Because
when you're the entrepreneur,you're the last one to get paid,
the first one to get sued.It's a rough business. It's awesome.

(05:21):
And for anybody that wants todo it, they should, but it's brutal.
And so I look out at the worldand I'm like, this is just too complicated.
Most people are not going tobe able to figure it out. Now, I
hope everybody listening to meassumes they're the ones that can
figure it out, butdirectionally, the number seems something
like 2%.
I'm not sure where you see the argument.

(05:41):
Oh, as long as we agree that.Because you said it's not tactics,
it's impact. And I thinkpeople think impact immediately means
sales, and it doesn't. But youmay mean more when you say that than
I am.
Okay, let's dive in therebecause you had such a strong reaction.
And I like to see if there isa point of difference, because I
believe the tension thatexists between two points of view

(06:04):
is where maybe a new truthmight live. And I'm willing, willing
to go into those waters and Iwant to do that with you. So most
people think that I just wantto make money. And so then what do
you do with that? I don't knowwhat to do with that. And everybody
wants to be rich. Sosomebody's making a hundred thousand
dollars. I say, what's yourgoal? I want to make a million. My
first question is, who are yougoing to become in the pursuit of
that? Because it's just notgoing to materialize overnight. No

(06:26):
one's going to just dump 10xwhat you're making if you're exactly
the same person. And that mostof the problems I see with entrepreneurs
who are stuck is they have amindset limiting belief problem.
They have an unhealthyrelationship with money. They don't,
they didn't get enough love intheir childhood and maybe we all
need a little bit more andthey, they don't. They're not capable
of receiving love in the wayof like a client saying, I, I think

(06:48):
I should pay you more. Theyjust don't want to respond to that.
Somebody gives them acompliment since you, you killed
it on that talk and they, theycan't hear it because that's not
their self, their own internaldialogue, their narrative. And so
usually then it's like we haveto reprogram you. Now. I think maybe
you growing up had a certainset of circumstances hardwired, DNA
wise that you looked at theworld differently and so the opportunity

(07:10):
is what you were looking for.And when you found it, you went all
in on it. Whereas somebodyelse would be like, I don't know.
Okay, I see a look on your face.
Yeah, so I'm not a bornentrepreneur. I am one of the 2%
of people that was like, ohwait, you can get good at this. But
when I think about what I hadto do and change, it really was,
yes, you have to get pastthose limiting beliefs. But the only

(07:32):
reason that getting pastlimiting beliefs matters is because
the only thing that matters isthe actions you take. And getting
past your limiting beliefsdoes not mean you'll take the right
actions. It just means you'lltake actions that's better than just
not taking actions. So gettingpast those limiting beliefs is absolutely
critical. And that was thefirst entire half of my public Persona.

(07:53):
I really thought by givingpeople mindset that it would have
the same impact that it had onme. And then I watched and it didn't.
And I was like, what ishappening? Why do people still then
not make that next leap ofsuccess? So then I started teaching
people just like, okay,entrepreneurship is novel problem
solving. It is the ability tosolve a problem. Not only that you've
never seen that nobody's everseen. How do you do that? You think

(08:15):
from first principles. Okay,cool. I start teaching first principles.
Still doesn't do anything. Ican't even get people to sign up
for the course. So I'm like,jesus, what is happening? Like somebody
with my track record istelling you the thing you need is
to understand how to thinkfrom first principles. Nobody Signs
up. So I'm like, okay, that'sinteresting. But if I teach tactics,
people will show up. So nowI'm like, very interesting. Now I

(08:37):
think you and I are going toagree. Ultimately, only tactics matter.
The problem is you'll neverget to tactics because you're going
to break somewhere else. So Ithink the vast majority of people,
they don't have the emotionalresilience to keep going. But being
emotionally resilient is notthe same as running a business. You
have to have the emotionalresilience. A psychotic desire to
get better, to acquire skills,an ability to get the timing right,

(09:01):
an ability to get people tofollow you, to paint a vision, to
create momentum. There are somany things after the limiting belief
that it is not at allsurprising to me that very few people
are successful. Just notsurprising in the slightest. So this
is where, like, success,unfortunately, is going to ask you

(09:24):
one question. How badly do youwant it? And are you capable enough
of getting the skills? And soI don't know what to do with that
man, because it's notmotivating. But I have such a profound
fear of contributing spiritualentertainment to the world. That

(09:45):
would have made me a lot moremoney in this arena. But it makes
me feel like I'm lying topeople, and I hate that feeling.
So the reason I don't like itis some people that really are in
the 2% and really could dothis, they'll quit because I didn't
just tell them they can doanything. So I think everybody should
believe that they're in the 2%because better that at least you
won't artificially stopyourself. But please know, solving

(10:09):
your mindset problems isnecessary but not sufficient. And
if all you ever do is work onyour mindset and you never say, elon
Musk is my competition, I haveto get better at this game than he
is. If you don't say that,you're not going to beat him. I mean,
he's just once in Lord knowshow many generations. But if you're
not willing to stare at thatand say, oh, that's the task is to

(10:32):
get as far on that journey asI can, you will lose. It's too hard.
It's so hard.
Let's draw maybe a parallel tosome kind of analog where you can
say, look, it's kind of likethis. And then maybe I can start
to see the differences betweenthe way you think about it. Let's
say it's a game of pickleball.So what are the tactics of pickleball

(10:52):
versus what Is the mindset orthe limiting beliefs around that?
Maybe we can just start to seehow it maps. Can we do something
like that?
Yeah, sure, of course.
So for you, what is tacticsfor, like, pickleball?
Tactics of pickleball aregoing to be, how close to the net
do you stand? And this iswhere you have to go. You have to
understand that certaintactics will be unavailable to you
because you're short. Soplaying against somebody who's 65

(11:14):
runs a 4 4, their fast twitchmuscle fiber is better than yours.
And so now it becomes aquestion of, well, have you trained
your fast twitch fibers? No, Ihaven't. Okay, we'll start there.
Because maybe you can go a lotfarther than you think you can. You're
not six. And so now you'regonna have to figure out, okay, how
do I as somebody, maybe you're5 4. How do I, as somebody who's
5 4, change the way that Iplay the game so that I can beat

(11:36):
the people that are 6 4? It'spossible, but it's going to require
you to have a totallydifferent strategy for the game to
do different things. Maybeyou're training in a different way
because you have to build updifferent muscles. Maybe this is
about speed and cutback,whatever. Maybe you have to work
on your hand eye coordinationso that you can respond to balls
coming over the net fasterthan the next person. So all of that,

(11:57):
what you train, how you trainis going to be different based on
the natural gifts that youhave. And that's going to ultimately
translate not only into thingsyou do in training, but how you hold
the racket, how you topspinthe ball. Maybe spin is all you focus
on and you just become like agangster of table tennis out on the
pickleball court and you justslice topspin sideways, just get

(12:17):
crazy with it. Those are theways that that is ultimately going
to manifest.
Okay, now, what would be like, the.
Mindset part of that, that youcan get better? Mindset can be summed
up in what I call the onlybelief that matters. The only belief
that matters. If I put timeand energy into getting better at
something, I will get better.If you believe that and act in accordance,
everything else will take youto the limits of your abilities.

(12:38):
If you don't believe in that,then why would you try hard? You're
not going to get any better.And you're right that you first have
to get people to embrace that,which is all the limiting belief
stuff you're talking aboutsimplified into one thing. But you
can be on the other side ofthat and start training as if you
were 64 when you're really 54and it's not going to work. And so
there's so many other thingsthat go into this. And by the way,

(13:02):
not everybody is going to beable to make the Olympic team. So
it's just one of those, okay,what are we doing? The easy one for
me is in business, you aregoing to get emotionally battered
about. And if you build yourself esteem around being right, being
better, being faster, beingstronger, you're very quickly going

(13:23):
to see that you're just losingprobably more than you win. But when
you win, you win big enough tomake up for all the failures. Most
people can't handle thatemotionally. They're going to quit
the first time. Like thisstory is as old as time. Budding
entrepreneur starts theirfirst company, begs their girlfriend
to give them time and space tofigure this out. They spend three
years making their girlfriendsleep in some tiny apartment while

(13:45):
all her friends are buying ahouse house and having kids. And
that company fails. And thenthe girlfriend says, nope, no more.
We're getting married, we'rehaving kids. You're going to get
a normal job. And thatperson's like, yeah, because that
was grueling and I spent allmy relationship capital. That person
won't make it. Even thoughmaybe they're smarter than I am,
but they weren't able to facethe embarrassment that I'm able to

(14:06):
face.
Wouldn't you consider thatlike more of a mindset?
Yeah, that when I'm trying tostay in your zone of it's important,
it's just not sufficient.
I'm not saying either. Neitherof them are important. They're both
important. But in my ownexperience, when I teach people tactics,
which I love to do becauseit's very easy, it's pretty straightforward.
You kind of have steps and youknow where you're going to start

(14:28):
and how it ends. The problemis you give people tactics and then
they don't execute. It's likeyou tell them, this is how you slice
the ball. Here's how you buildup your cardio, here's how you get
an advantage over a taller,shorter player. But then they just
don't know do that. So for me,mindset is like, do you want to play
sport? Do you care about yourhealth? Or do you want, do you want

(14:48):
to enjoy this life that youhave? Is it even important to you?
Because once they're properlylocked in and committed to taking
action and following throughand building up the resilience past
the frustration of, like, Ikeep missing that ball coach. I keep.
No, stick to it. You got this.Then the tactics are really streamlined.
I don't know what yourexperience has been like, but when
you teach people tactics, doyou track how many people actually

(15:11):
complete and actually have success?
We do, and it's adistressingly low number. But it
looks something like this.Like you. We start with mindset,
so we have what we callbillion dollar habits. So cool. Anybody
that's at the mindset stage,they're not sure where to start.
You go there. If you are readyto start your first business, then
we've got zero to founder. Andthat's for people that are like,

(15:31):
oh my God, I'm ready to try.But I don't know. We start with mindset
there, like as a sort of rstlne. For anybody that watches Wheel
of Fortune, it's the tablestakes. So you have to have your
mindset right. Otherwiseyou're not going to take the right
actions. Then the vastmajority of zero to founder is okay.
Now it's what are the skillsthat you're going to need to acquire

(15:53):
in order to build a business?And then the third step on the train
is how to scale a business.And that's where we're getting into
essentially novel decisionmaking all times. So it's entirely
possible that we don'tdisagree on anything. I have gone
through a brutal emotionaljourney on the mindset stuff because
I really thought mindset wasgoing to save the world. And then

(16:15):
I realized, oh, no, adults arebasically baked. And even though
they could make change, theywon't. Now. You cannot imagine how
sad that makes me. And you'rejust a more optimistic person than
I am, Chris. I mean, that's, Ithink, the reality of it. I really
realize, huh, most people willnever get out of this trap. And I

(16:37):
find it very unfulfilling toanswer the same questions over and
over and over and over andover and over and over to the same
person who clearly just is notprepared to do that. So I started
going upstream. So we stilloffer it, but that's the thing that
I engage with the least.They've got it. They've got all the
information prerecorded. Go doyour thing. If you graduate and realize,
oh, I'm actually willing to dothis now, cool, then we've got the

(16:59):
next thing. Now we're in thethick of, like, you actually have
to build a real business. Andthen we've got people making hundreds
of millions of dollars inrevenue in our scaling program. And
so that's like, oh, okay.You're obviously going to get the
most people at the verybeginning on the mindset side. But
I have, because of my ownweirdnesses. I've just needed to.

(17:20):
My content has changed overtime because I want to interface
with the most difficultproblems, literally, on earth. How
should the government run? Howis money? How do you found a company
with your wife? Like, how doyou navigate? Yeah, like, I want
that messy, messy stuffbecause I want to see if I can think
through it. I want to see if Ihave tools that actually work in

(17:41):
the knife fight of life.
Okay, well, that addresses oneof the things that I want to talk
to you about. But I just wantto circle back. You said this brutal
emotional journey that youwere on, is that tied to the beginning
of a content game that youwere playing, or is that something
else?
No, this. This. So Questreally broke me. So Quest went like
this. When I was 18, I startedbig brothering for this kid. This

(18:01):
is not tied to Quest yet, butit'll all come together. Big brothering
for this kid in the innercities for extra credit, they give
you the worst kid in the worstschool district in the nation, because
I went to usc, which is in themiddle of just an absolute horrifying
area. And they give you, ofcourse, the problematic child because
they want to get him out ofclass. It's supposed to be eight
weeks. I ended up bigbrothering for him for eight and
a half years, and I was tooyoung and stupid to actually help

(18:26):
him. I showed him somebodyloved him, but I was not able to
change the trajectory of hislife meaningfully. Flash forward
15 years later, I'm at Quest.I have 3,000 employees. A thousand
of them remind me of this kidthat I big brothered for. Grew up
hard in the inner cities,going nowhere fast. And I was suddenly
struck with, this is weird.Some of these guys are smarter than

(18:48):
me, meaning they can processraw data faster than I can. So I'm
like, they're smarter than me,but they're selling drugs.
Right?
Because we had this wholething. It doesn't matter who you
are today. Only matters whoyou want to become, the price you're
willing to pay to get there.So hiring drug dealers, former gang
members, like, all kinds ofstuff. I mean, it's awesome. It was
such an incredible,emotionally fulfilling moment in

(19:08):
my life. And I say, look, I'mgoing to do Quest University. I will
teach you anything andeverything I know about entrepreneurship.
I will teach you how to builda competing nutrition company. If
that's what you want. I willnot hold anything back. Anything
I know I will teach you. Thisis long before cameras. I'm just
trying to build a company, andI'm like, I want you to stay here
not because you aren'tqualified to work anywhere else,

(19:30):
but because you've never hadanybody invest in you the way I'm
going to invest in you. And myhypothesis is that you're going to
stay here because you believeI care more about your future than
your own mother. This is oneof the ways that Quest was able to
thrive, because we had peoplethat really felt like they had hope
in their life. For the firsttime, somebody believed in them,
gave them a second chance.Plenty of people took the piss and

(19:51):
took advantage. It was fuckingterrible, whatever. But there was
a core group of people that.It was unbelievable. So I spent years
with these guys only to findout, and these are rough numbers.
It's not literal. 2% of them.It changed their life forever. Some
of them have gone on to starttheir own very successful companies.
It's incredible. And they pingme every now and then. Some work

(20:13):
for other people, but haveclimbed the ladder and are making
six figures. Unbelievable. Theincredible success stories. And if
I were wired for, like, aslong as I help one person, I've done
it. That just doesn't resonatefor me. I'm glad it does for a lot
of people. It does notresonate for me. That would not be
a life well lived. I'd belike, well, at least I tried. Not
going to cry about it. But ifon my deathbed, tom, you helped one

(20:33):
person, I'd be like, jesus,I'd be traumatized. Anyway, so I'm
trying to scale this thing up.I realize only 2% of people do anything
with it. I had two guys get ina fight. They grew up together as
besties. And one of them, theywere in the same Quest University.
One of them got mad at hisfriend because guess what he did?
He started reading. And so theother guy got mad and actually punched

(20:57):
him in the face and said, I'mpunching you in the face because
you started reading. I askedhim that question like, six times.
So wait, the fight was over?You reading? Yes. Okay. So when he
threw the first punch, heactually said to you, you've changed.
You've started reading? Yes. Iwas like, I could not wrap my head
around because that's not howI grew up. That somebody would punch
you in the face because you'vestarted reading. That was just the

(21:18):
craziest shit I'd ever heard.In my life. So anyway, I begin to
realize, oh, you have to giveup on adults. I do not expect that
to be a popular view. Andthank the Lord that there are some
people who are going to takethat and say, I'll never give up
on adults, Tom. I'm glad theyexist. I realized this is a brain
development thing, so I'mgoing to focus my energy because

(21:38):
at the time I would have said,I'm trying to build a media company
to help adults never eventhought about kids. And then I realized,
oh, this is a braindevelopment problem. And I need to
focus on something known asthe age of imprinting, which is 11
to 15. It's when kids pushback from their parents and they
say, I'm now going to learnfrom culture. And I realized I can't
influence who your parentsare. I can't influence where you
grow up, but I can influencewhat your friends think is cool.

(22:01):
And so that's going to be myjob, to put empowering ideas into
entertainment so that nobodygets to the age of 15 without encountering
a growth mindset at scalethrough story entertainment games,
basically. And so that becamethe thing. But that really was. My
heart was broken because thesewere real people to me that I wanted
to see. You grew up in thehood, but you don't have to stay

(22:21):
there. And I want to see allof these guys turn their lives around
and they just don't. It is avery small for me. I'm perfectly
willing to accept I'm just notgood enough. Great. Somebody comes
in behind me and shows thereis a magical sequence of words or
things that you can do andthat adults really can change. But
I have a very bad feelingthey're all going to find the same
thing I do, which is it is waybetter. Rather than pulling, imagine

(22:43):
a waterfall. People keepfalling off the waterfall and you
scramble to pull them all outof the waterfall and you're like,
oh my God. And you're dryingthem off and oh my God, there's so
many people going by. There'slike too many for you to rescue.
And then finally one day yougo, maybe I should go upstream. Figure
out who's throwing them in thewater in the first place. That's
what I'm saying. I did. Irealized, oh, all the people that
are already. They've alreadyfallen off the waterfall. Yes, I

(23:04):
could pull some of them out ofthe water, but they're going by so
fast. I just can't help enoughpeople. Let me go upstream and stop
them from being thrown in the water.
In the first place, you have3,000 employees. Two of them get
into a fight. Is that themoment that breaks you or is that
just a metaphor for a lot of things?
Well, it's not a metaphor,unfortunately. Real story. But that
is an easy thing to explainand say, yes, it was a thousand little

(23:28):
things that built up to thatstory where I could be like, okay,
this is a straw that broke thecamel's back. And it's easy to explain.
So the people like, oh, I getthe kind of thing that ended up breaking
my poor little heart.
Okay, is the content thatyou're making now the thing that's
going to address the 11 to 15year olds? No.
Ironically, I cannot stopmyself from making content for adults,

(23:49):
but at least in a totallydifferent way. So here's how.
I don't know. It's like a slippery.
I tried, I tried.
Like, where are you going?
All I can do is give you thetruth. So that is why the primary
focus of this companyultimately better end up being content
aimed at 11 to 15 year olds.That's why I'm spending so much money
and time and energy buildingthe video game. It just takes years.

(24:11):
So we've already been doing itfor three years. Hopefully AI will
speed up, make this a wholelot easier. But we've been building
that for three years. Partnerwith Bruce Lee. We've got mentor
characters in the game that,while you're being entertained, are
giving you some of the dopestinsights in the world and how to
think. All mindsets,incredible. Shout out to Bruce Lee.
I love those guys so much.Could not be more grateful. Bruce
Lee changed my life when I wasa kid. So just absolutely beside

(24:34):
myself that we have thatpartnership. But the thing that I
have proven the world wantsfrom me is content for the 2%. So
I see myself as a filteringmechanism for the 2%. I'm going to
help you in the major aspectsof your life from mindset, business,
finance, world affairs,politics, the things that actually

(24:55):
make up your adult life in themost monumentally important ways.
Cool. I'm going to be thereand I'm going to give you an angle
on that stuff. And we're verygood at content and so we do that.
We make millions of dollarsdoing it. Yay. The business side,
I think I understand thisfreakishly well. And so we've got
amazing business humming alongthere. But in terms of what is it

(25:17):
like about. About what's mylegacy? Why haven't I written a book?
Because if I stop to write abook, I'm not going to be writing
a screenplay. I'm not going tobe developing the video game. And
those are the things that stoppeople from getting thrown in the
river. All the other stuff istrying to pull people that have already
gone off the waterfall.
I understand the strategy. Ithink you're going to meet those
kids where they're at, whichis in the realm of entertainment

(25:41):
games, and you're going to usethat as a way.
To teach them bigger ideas,introduce them to ideas. I don't
think that entertainment worksthat way. I think you plant seeds
that will influence theirbeliefs and their values. I mean,
this is how society hasinculcated their children with beliefs
and values from timeimmemorial. You tell them stories,
and the stories make itpossible for you to put information

(26:03):
in a hierarchy and to carry itwith you in life. And I personally
think in movies, so it's beenvery easy for me to build value system
beliefs, even a moral compassbased on things I've seen in stories
and how that's played out andwhat all that stuff means. So I want
to do that for the next generation.
It is kind of a darkstatement, but you're being a realist

(26:23):
and you're saying, I'm givingup on adults because I've seen so
much that it seems like at acertain age, there's very little
I can do to influence that. SoI want to go upstream, meet the more
of that before the problemeven occurs. Try and work on that
in the way that I know how.What surprises me a lot about you
is the different arcs you'vebeen on from prequest, Quest, video

(26:44):
games, comics, entertainment,the YouTube channel, and how it continues
to evolve. I think I'll watchone of the newest episodes that you
have, which is you kind oftalking about relevant news, topical
things, and it seems like,what an interesting, wild, crazy
arc that you're on. And then Iwas thinking, what kind of person
are you that you haveinformation like this, that where

(27:07):
you can talk about it in sucha detailed, granular way? You studied
film production, ufc.
Yeah.
So, like, that's a verydifferent start to, like, where you
are now. What happened inbetween? Or was it always there and
we just didn't know aboutthis, like, this brain of yours and
how it works and process information?
Oh, those might be verydifferent questions. Okay, so if

(27:27):
this were 10,000 years ago, Iwould not be the village chief. I
would be the villagestoryteller, for sure. I think the
thing that my brain is mostadept at is understanding myself.
That is huge leverage inunderstanding Other people. And I
have had the belief, though Iwould not repeat this if I had to

(27:49):
do it over again. I had thebelief that I needed to control the
finances in order to controlthe art. But ultimately, getting
to the art has always been thepoint. From the time I was 12, I
knew I was going to be astoryteller. And the way that my
brain processes the world isthrough story in story. That to me
is just the most powerful wayto give or get information. And the

(28:12):
business thing was like asidestep to get rich so that I could
build my own studio. Now,admittedly, when I started, I thought
it would take 18 months. Verynaive. Took 15 years, but it worked.
And so in that time, Idiscovered what I wanted to make
stories about. And so Iprobably would have just gone into
just regular entertaining,blockbuster Y type stuff. But along

(28:34):
the way realized, oh, whoa,there's this other thing that I care
deeply about because of howmuch it impacts the world. So the
right way to understand mybrain is that my brain is wildly
dysfunctional. I'm hyper lazy.I'm very easy to distract. And in
order to get the money that Ineeded to tell the stories I wanted
to tell, I had to learn totame my mind. In taming my mind and

(28:55):
getting control of it, Irealized, oh, my God, this is just
a set of ideas. This is notabout Tom having a special mind.
If anything, I've always feltlike my mind is pretty dysfunctional.
And the reason I'm good at thethings that I'm good at is that I
believe all instructionmanuals should be written by the
person who struggled to putthat thing together, because they
know exactly where you'regoing to get tripped up. So I can

(29:16):
say, ah, here are the thingsthat are going to mess you up. And
I can walk people throughthat. Now, the reason that I know
where you're going to gettripped up is I got tripped up. I
had all the same emotionalimpulses that anybody else had, but
I discovered that trusting myemotions was a mistake. I know that
trying to suppress youremotions is also a mistake. So it's
like, how do you navigate allthat? So once you understand, okay,

(29:38):
I am wired to help people, I'mjust obsessed with it, but I'm also
wired for efficacy. The thinghas to actually work. So what I call
spiritual entertainmentdoesn't make me feel good about myself.
It makes me feel like I'mpretending. And so I really hate
that feeling. And so phase oneof my content, which was all mindset,

(30:01):
I started realizing, oh, thisis just spiritual entertainment.
I have a two hour decliningarc of influence. I will help people
go through the realizationthat they can do anything they set
their mind to, basically. Butthey wouldn't. And they would just
come back the next week forthat same two hour declining arc
of making them feel like theycan do anything, but they wouldn't
do anything. And so then youget into, okay, well let me give

(30:22):
you the tactics and on and onthrough all the things. And then
ultimately just had to realizeI throw the bat symbol in the sky,
I take the 2%, I tell themwhat they need to do, and then I
hope that they do it all whilefocusing my own energies on pulling
people out. So that's theright way to understand me is I am
trying to map the world interms of truth. Truth is extremely

(30:43):
hard to identify. The closestthing you can do is run an experiment
with a predicted outcome, seeif you actually get the outcome.
If you get that outcome, yourmapping of the world is close to
the truth. If you do not getthat outcome, your mapping of the
world is inaccurate and youneed to update your mapping of the
world, come up with a newexperiment to run. Run it with the
predicted outcome, see if yougot that predicted outcome. You just

(31:04):
live in that loop and so yourvision of the world gets more and
more accurate over time.That's the right way to understand
me.
It's time for a quick break,but we'll be right back.

(31:25):
Enjoying the conversationyou're listening to right now. You're
going to love what we have foryou inside the Future Pro membership.
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it out@future.com pro.

(31:47):
And we're back. Welcome backto our conversation.
I think when I was younger Ithought that there's absolute truth
and there are a few thingsthat I think are seemingly can hold
true. But there's a lot ofinterpretations of truth. My new,
older kind of perspective onthis is like, I don't want to miscommunicate
this. There are multipletruths. Like your way of seeing the
world is true to you and myway of seeing the world is true to

(32:09):
me. I'm not going to say likemy truth is stronger than yours or
accept that yours is strongerthan mine. And the weird thing about
the truth is, as you say, asmore information becomes available,
what we thought is true wasn'ttrue at all. It's just in that Snapshot
in time, it felt true. And soI'm always a little kind of tentative
when I hold on to what I thinkis the truth. Like I don't want to

(32:30):
grip it so strongly that if abetter truth comes along that I can't
let go. And one of thosemindset things that I try and help
people through is you've toldyourself a story for a really long
time and you didn't even checkthe facts. And now when new, better,
more relevant informationcomes, you reject that information.
So you're holding on to thatold truth where it's not even serving
you. So what are your thoughtson this thing, this pursuit of truth?

(32:54):
Is there such a thing?
Every word you just said isaccurate, so there will be no debate.
The only thing I will say isthat the truth is out there. And
the reason, like you, I havestrong convictions, but they are
very loosely held, is I wantto have a one for one relationship
between what I think willhappen when I do something and what

(33:16):
actually happens when I dosomething. And I have to have a vision
of, okay, I believe this, Ithink this is what's going to happen.
I have to have that story,otherwise I won't move. So I construct
that story. It's like thereare stars in the sky and I draw a
constellation, okay? But theconstellation isn't quote unquote
real. It's not necessarilytrue. But if by looking at a certain
constellation I can navigatethe seas, that constellation has

(33:38):
high or low utility. So I'mjust looking for. Since I don't think
humans can really identifywhat's true, we don't even understand
full physics, then I'm justgoing to go off utility. So utility
for me is a stand in for anapproximation of the truth. And so
when I believe this and dothis, I get my desired outcome. I'm

(33:59):
going to keep doing andbelieving that. The second I'm like,
well, when I believe this andthen do this thing, I get an outcome
that I couldn't havepredicted. Then I'm like, ooh, the
thing I believe is wrong. So Ineed to update my thinking on that
thing. And so I'm justconstantly like, what is wrong about
what I believe about theworld? This is why I say, don't trust
your emotions because youremotions create those constellations

(34:20):
I'm talking about. And they'reoften deformed and they make no sense,
but they feel right becauseyou're angry. And now you're like,
this is how those starsconnect. They're there, a constellation
of war and so I'm going to goto war with my husband. And it's
like, that doesn't work. Like,I just saw a video of a woman in
a mall with her husbandpushing a baby stroller. The husband

(34:41):
is wearing a board on eachside claiming that he cheated on
his wife while she waspregnant. And the woman's yelling
at him, saying, this is a realvideo. My husband cheated on me.
We agreed to have a secondkid, but he was having an affair
the whole time. And I waslike, oh, this is somebody who thinks
by giving into the desire forvengeance that they're going to get
the life they want. So theybelieve a thing. They think when

(35:02):
they do a thing, they're goingto get this desired outcome. And
what they're going to find isthey're going to get vengeance and
it won't feel good. Andthey're going to get very confused.
And so now they're going to belike, oh, I haven't satisfied my
vengeance. I've got to punishhim more. And not realizing, oh,
this is going to create thevery thing I don't want. Now, the
reality is she just had thewrong belief. That's not how you

(35:25):
get what you want. The way youget what you want is to either find
forgiveness and a path tobuilding trust, or you get divorced
and you start over. Butcastigating him in front of everybody,
diminishing him, doesn't makehim a better husband, doesn't make
you feel better about whathappened. So to me, it's like, I
don't cast a moral judgment onher. She's stuck. She has a bad belief.

(35:47):
She doesn't understand theactual relationship between her belief
embodying that emotion and theresult that she's going to get. She
probably doesn't evenunderstand. The result she's looking
for is to feel at peace and tofeel loved. And because she doesn't
understand what her North Staris, she can't even steer. So she
has a wrong belief and anunknown North Star. And so that's

(36:08):
how people get themselves intoa really wacky place.
As you're exploring the truth,are you looking into metaphysics,
quantum entanglement,multidimensional parallel universes,
and things of that nature.
This is an emotion I won'ttrust in myself. But I go crazy when
people use quantum to meanmagical. There's no magic in quantum.

(36:33):
There's only what we don'tunderstand, so we don't understand.
There are plenty of thingsthat I can't tell you how they work.
I just know when People usethe word quantum like you're going
to cure cancer by tapping intothe quantum realm. I am running in
the opposite direction as fastas I can because that is a belief
that I don't think is going tomove you forward. Now, if I were
diagnosed with stage fourcancer, I'm going to try everything,

(36:54):
including, yo, bro, I'mgetting in the quantum right now
and I'm going to cure all mycancer. For real? For real. So don't
let me sound like I'm aboveit. I'm going to try everything,
but I would not do that to theexclusion of my chemotherapy and
other things. So, yeah, I justhave a. As somebody who's always
trying to figure out what hasa one to one relationship between
belief and actually gettingthe desired outcome. People, they

(37:18):
want beliefs that make themfeel hopeful. And I get that, but
this is how Steve Jobs ateapples and died of cancer.
Well, you mentioned before, Ilove the way you phrase it. I'm not
going to be able to do it, butmaybe truth and utility, you kind
of look at what's useful andyou kind of make moves on that. So
some of the magical thinking,it's like, if it's not moving you

(37:39):
forward, I have challengeswith that as well. So as you are
exploring these other kinds ofexplanations about how the world
may work in the actual physicsand things like that, does it influence
some of the things that youthink are utilitarian? And if so,
is there anything that you'vecome across that you are.
Yeah, look, if I've alwayssaid I don't worry about whether

(37:59):
something is true, I worryabout whether it has utility. So
I only do and believe thatwhich moves me towards my goals.
Now what people miss in thatis the reality is if believing something
gets you the desired outcome,odds are that you're getting pretty
close to the truth. But thereason I say that I don't worry about
whether it's true is that Iknow I'm prone to believe very negative

(38:20):
things about myself. So it'slike whatever they talk about, the
nine to one ratio for everynegative comment, you need five,
nine positive comments to feelbalanced. So it's like, okay, well
if I know that that's true,then it's like, well, that means
I'm more likely to thinksomething negative about myself that
isn't true. And so if Ibelieve negative things about me
that aren't true, that hold meback, I don't want to be in that

(38:41):
position. So I'm just notgoing to allow myself to believe
negative things, even though alot of those negative things probably
are true. But if they'restopping me from moving forward,
then I'm not going to. But if,by the way, I need to believe those
negative things about myselfin order to fix something, well,
then I'm going to believe init because that has high utility
to go well, that actuallymight be true. So I'm going to believe
in that. I'm going to act inaccordance. The key is not to let

(39:03):
believing a negative thingabout myself damaged my self esteem.
I want to just correct it. Iwant to improve my thinking, my actions,
my behaviors, whatever, to getthe outcome that I want, which is
something that we haven'tsaid, I should say expressly. One
of the biggest problems ispeople don't have clarity on where
they want to end up. And ifyou don't know where you're trying
to go, you're never going to.

(39:23):
Get there when you keepdescribing different ideas. I just
think you have a reallyhealthy frame of how you see things.
So it's like reality plus yourreaction equals I'm spacing out but
that expression. But like youhave a very strong, healthy, positive
mindset about how you look atcertain things. Right. So if you're
like, if there's negativecomments and it isn't useful to me,

(39:45):
then I'm not going to payattention to it. But if it is, you
will. Where? How did youdevelop this way of looking at the
world? Because I think if morepeople can have that mindset, I think
they'd be able to achievemore, at least be happier.
Okay, so this one has a reallyspecific moment in my life. So I
was working with two guys whowere far smarter than me and I had

(40:08):
just lost every battle we'dever gotten into and it was really
starting to hurt my selfesteem. And we got into another argument
about what we should do withthe business and I started fighting
for an idea that I knew wasbad. And there was a voice in my
head screaming, you know, thisidea is bad. But I needed to win
the argument. And I needed towin the argument because my self

(40:28):
esteem was built around beingsmarter than other people. And so
I was like, oh, they'reshowing me over and over and over
and over and over and over andover that they're smarter than me.
I can't lose another one ofthese. It's just too devastating.
And so I end up winning theargument and we all agree we're going
to do this thing for thebusiness and I know it's the wrong
answer. So they walk out ofthe room and I'm like, uh, oh, I'm

(40:52):
now having an existentialcrisis because I told my wife I would
make her rich. And she's athome right now as I'm arguing for
a terrible idea so that I canbe right. She's at home clipping
coupons. So which is it? Do Iwant to actually become successful
or do I want to be right? Do Iwant to feel good about myself? And

(41:14):
I was like, I actually want tobe successful. And so my initial
impulse was to stop buildingmy self esteem, to just let go and
accept I'm gonna feelhopelessly bad about myself, but
I'm gonna end up becomingsuccessful. And I was like, that
sounds like a high riskendeavor. So I was like, could I
build my self esteem aroundsomething that would move me ever

(41:36):
towards success? Now, I wouldcall this an antifragile mindset,
but I had not read NassimTaleb's book yet, so. Nor Carol Dweck's
book, which both of thosebooks held the secrets that I so
very much needed. But alas,this was before they wrote them.
And I was like, ooh, what if Ibuilt my self esteem around learning
instead of trying to be right,identifying the right answer no matter

(42:00):
who it comes from. And so, iffor no other reason than to not let
my father in law be rightabout me because he thought I was
going to fail to not leave mywife at home clipping coupons and
to become the person I wantedto become, I was going to switch
my self esteem to only valuingmyself. Meaning I only would emotionally
reward myself for times whereI was like, oh, that person's idea

(42:23):
is right. I can see it's rightnow. Boom. And I'm going to champion
that idea. I'm going to putall the energy behind that. And this
is all in business. And I'mgoing to say, yeah, this is the one.
Or in my marriage, I'm notgoing to argue with my wife. Oh my
gosh, you're right. You'reright. You're actually much better
at that than me. And so mywife's at home like, whoa, like,
this is so cool. Thank you. Ifeel so seen my business partners
are like, oh, wow. Like thisguy really will put the energy behind

(42:44):
whatever he thinks is theright idea. It changed everything
in my life. And I was like,okay, now I have to put work into.
Because even today, 25 yearslater, I still feel awesome when
I'm just right. Like, thatfeels rad. But I'm like, that's a
trap. I cannot trust thatemotion. I've got to always be looking
for what's the right answer.Champion who it came from. Don't

(43:04):
steal their idea. Shout themout. Let them know, hey, thank you
for that. But it's crazy howpeople will fall behind the person
who puts all the energy intosomething and is like, this is the
right one. Let's create somemomentum. Let's go, let's go. That
was transformative. So I valuemyself for my ability to stare nakedly
at my inadequacies. And thatswitch changed my entire life.
How old were you when you cameto this moment?

(43:25):
26.
Okay. And was there somethingthat preceded that moment where you
had this internal dialoguewhere you're, you're saying to yourself,
I could try to prove that I'mright, or I can just get the job
done. And at this pointforward, I'm going to choose get
the job done.
It was an endless parade ofhorrible decisions where I was making
my life smaller and smaller sothat I could be the smartest person

(43:48):
in every room I was in. Andsuddenly you're in a room where people
are smarter than you and yourealize, whoa, like I'm actually
going to get somewhere now.This is crazy. I can't believe I'm
around these people. They aremaking me think better about everything.
This is awesome. And you findyourself wanting to eject out of
that room because you don'tfeel smart anymore. I was like, okay,
that's a fool's errand. So Iremember I had a phrase. I was like,

(44:10):
as long as this group ofpeople is the surest path to my success,
I'm going to stay here. Andthe day it's no longer the surest
path to my success, I willleave. And it forced me to build
my self esteem aroundsomething different. Because when
you're not the smartest personin the room and you value yourself
for being the smartest personin the room, you're in a dark place.

(44:31):
And so if I hadn't been makingall those dumb decisions once, I
was in a much better situationbecause I was driven by that desire
to be successful. So when theysaid, hey, you should come work with
us, I was like, yes. Like,this is amazing. Not realizing the
day to day grind of feelinglike the dumb one. And so you just
look back at your life andyou're like, oh my God, I've been
doing this for years where I'mputting myself. Like I was selling

(44:54):
video games retail aftergetting a degree and all that. And
I was just in A video gamestore getting people to buy used
video games. It was crazy. AndI lived for those moments where the
guy interviewing me be like,why are you applying for this job?
You seem too smart for this.I'd be like, yes, but at the time

(45:14):
I really was excited. Thatfelt awesome. And so not realizing
how dysfunctional that was.And so then suddenly I'm in a better
place. Things finally feellike they're on track. I realize
I made a good decision bycoming here, but it's destroying
my self esteem. I was like,oh, the one thing I will say, I did
not earn this realization, butthat I had it. I will be eternally

(45:35):
grateful for that. I didn'tlie to myself and I said, you know
what's happening right now?You are arguing for an idea that
you know to be terriblebecause it makes you feel smart.
Not even that it makes youfeel smart, it makes you feel good
that they think you're smart.And so I was like, oh God, this is
a trap. And, and so I couldjust look out at my life. Getting
married has been so importantfor me because I was like, there's

(45:58):
now a witness to my crimes.There's now somebody that's going
to be punished because of thatdecision I'm making. Her life is
now going to be worse becauseI need to feel good about myself
for having the right answer.I'm like, jesus, that's dumb. And
so, yeah, anyway, wanting herlife to be better, wanting to really
honor what I told her when Iwas seducing her essentially to marry

(46:19):
me, was like, I'm gonna makeyou rich. I'm gonna make. This is
gonna be awesome. I know I'm abroke kid right now, but I'm not
gonna be forever. I'm the mostambitious person you've ever met.
Like, I'm really gonna dosomething. And so I painted this
dream for her and she got onboard and she married me. And so
I was like, I gotta make goodon this.
So your identity, how youdefined yourself and your esteem
self worth, was about beingthe smartest person in the room.

(46:40):
Your intelligence. And thenthat identity meets a different reality.
And then there's this conflictthat you're now in the room with
really smart people that youobjectively identify as much smarter
than you. So then you have tonow reinvent your identity or at
least define it differently.
My identity, I had to changewhat I built my self esteem around.
Okay, so.

(47:01):
And I mean, look, yes, youcould play that out because I will
often say that I adopted theidentity of the Learner. But it really
is about what you build yourself esteem around. And that was
game changing because now tofeel good about myself, I was constantly
on the hunt for how I waswrong, how somebody else's idea might
actually be better than mine.I didn't have any over investment

(47:22):
in my own ideas. And that justworks at every level. And if you're
surrounded by awesome peopleand you don't throw up the traditional
ego roadblocks, gonna be ableto get some stuff done.
And you said it's such a clearmoment in your mind and you know
exactly what, where it was,how old you were. Is this you laying

(47:42):
in bed? Is this you likedriving the car where you.
I was in the office. Theyliterally walked out the door and
I was like, oh, like that wasdumb. I can't believe I just did
that.
Oh, I see.
And so literally in thatmoment I was like, okay, no judgment.
If you just need to be thesmartest person in the room, quit
and go back to working theremedial jobs. Because it felt great.

(48:05):
We weren't going anywhere, butit felt great. And so I literally
remember saying in my ownhead, I'm not going to judge myself
right now. I just want to knowwhat's true, what do I really want?
And I was like, no, I reallydo want success. And I wouldn't have
had the words back then, butwhat I would say now is goals make
demands. And so the demandthat my goal made was that I need
to surround myself with peoplethat know more than me. If I can

(48:28):
find people that know morethan me and are smarter than me now,
that's really going to besomething. So I was like, these guys
are the surest path to mysuccess as of right now, today. And
so I need to find a way to behere, but I don't want to feel like
I'm a loser. So what can I doto be proud of myself and achieve

(48:50):
success? And the punchline wasa self esteem thing.
Okay, so it was in the directaftermath of you doing the thing
that you said you're going todo to.
Literally the next 30 minutesafter that, I was just like, oh,
what do we do? What do we do?
Right? And then they walkedout. And you're like, okay, I think
I won the war, but I've lostsomething else.
Yes.
Okay. Wow. I'm impressed byyour ability to recall things, your

(49:11):
clarity of thought and yourphraseology. How does one develop
this? I'm curious.
Ooh, well, my recall isterrible. I am mortified by my recall.
I'M highly verbal by nature.So every bit of energy that I put
into getting better atspeaking, I really get a return on
that. Do it a lot for a lot ofyears. So when I was 14, I started

(49:34):
doing stand up comedy. So Iwould stand in front of the mirror
for hours finding the funniestway to say something, how to cadence
something out to change themeaning or the way that it felt.
And then you get into businessand you're constantly talking and
then whatever. Nine years agoI stepped in front of the camera
and so now it's like, okay,I'm talking all, all the time. So

(49:55):
you do something enough andyou're going to get better. And if
you have a natural inclinationto something, then you're really
going to get better. With myrecall, what I say to people is I
remember about 10% of what Iencounter. So I just encounter a
lot of stuff. And so the 10%,even though it really like this,
is when I have to be carefulnot to let it damage my self esteem
because when I think about ifI could remember 20% of what I encountered,

(50:18):
oh my God, oh, I'd be so muchfarther in life. It really is a thing
of distress for me. But it iswhat it is and so it comes with trade
offs. I think the very reasonthat I can't hold onto things is
because I don't get stuck. SoI don't have emotional trauma in
the way the average persondoes because I'll forget it happened.

(50:39):
But it also means that I reada really cool business lesson and
then I'll forget that too. Soit giveth and it taketh away. So
it is what it is when.
You phrase something because Ithink you're really clear in how
you phrase stuff. Is it youworking on like writing this out
or you've said it enough timesthat you start to find the way? It
sounds good in your mind.
You're in my greatest hits. Sowhen I'm doing the Tom Bilyeu show,

(51:03):
you will get people in thefeed be like, damn, he talks a lot.
And the reason they say thatis I'm encountering the ideas in
a novel fashion. So I am averbal processor. So for me I either
have to write or speak if Iwant to understand something. So
I'll encounter an idea for thefirst time and my mind is like a
branching tree and I'll hitdead ends and come back. And then

(51:25):
15 minutes into talking abouta topic, I suddenly have a connection
with something else and I'mlike, oh, wow, okay, that's Interesting.
So that I sound very differentwhen I'm doing that versus when I'm
talking about things that I'vegot very crystallized ideas. And
then it's like what I talkabout putting in a VHS tape of like,
okay, cool. Yeah, you got mein, like, things I know so well.
So, yeah, depending on whatI'm talking about, I either sound

(51:48):
like I'm doing a Donald Trumpweave and I'm like, talking in these
weird patterns of people like,where is he going? Or I can be really
crisp, but I am. I'm notalways crisp, much to my dismay.
Okay, let's do something funbecause my brain hurts. I have to
admit, you've given me more toprocess than. Than a normal person
sitting in front of me. When Isay normal, I don't mean, like, you're

(52:08):
abnormal, but, like, I like,it's hard for me to keep up with
what you're saying, so I haveto, like, re. Listen to this a couple
of times. But let's dosomething fun. I like to ask you
a couple, like, randomquestions. If you can just give me
short answers, maybe we havesome fun.
Okay.
You said your goals makedemands. I love that. So what's the.
Your next big goal for the. Iguess your next 10 or 15 years?

(52:30):
I have to get really good atgame development, and I have to be
at the absolute bleeding edgeof AI Okay.
Are you doing any more comics?
Yes, but only if AI Makes themeffectively free. Comics cost a lot
of money and make effectively zero.
Okay. You've had a lot ofguests on your show. What's one guess
that you'd love to get on theshow? Haven't been able to yet, for

(52:50):
whatever reason.
And why Elon Musk? Because heis the most profound entrepreneur
of our generation. Maybe ever.
What is one episode that youthought was a total banger? Great
conversation. Either somebodytalking to you or you talking to
them where it just did notperform. What's that episode? So,
like, we can go there and digthat one up like a sleeper question.

(53:12):
Oh, man. I had a history guyon Graham, something I loved. Did
not perform. Did I think itwas a banger, though? I don't know.
I thought it was good. Idefinitely thought it was better
than the performance wouldhave you believe. That's a terrible
answer. Asking about backcatalog is where I really fail you.
Okay, apologies.

(53:33):
Well, we'll include in theshow notes after there.
I can look one up for you for sure.
Absolutely. We'll do that.
Send you. Absolutely.
Okay. Guilty pleasure you hadthat. You did As a kid, that was
just purely for fun, but kindof stupid.
I used to swim in my frontyard, but there was no swimming pool.
But really, I just readsomething about this that explains

(53:54):
to me why kids under the ageof seven, I think, are in a theta
wave state, which is the sameas dreaming. Because I remember as
a kid being like, I am reallyscuba diving in my front yard. It
was awesome. Yeah. So that wasincredible. It's some of my strongest
memories of being a kid. Butnonetheless, it was just me wandering
around my front yard withgoggles on.

(54:16):
Favorite game that you playthat maybe is under the radar?
Well, that's going to beProject Kaizen, the one that I'm
building. Because I reallyplay a small handful of games and
they're all mahusive. SoMinecraft. I'm obsessed. Fortnite.
I'm obsessed. Under the radar.Project Hyzen.
Okay, are you a PC or a Mac guy?
I game on PC exclusively, butI use a Mac for all work things.

(54:39):
And that's for the street credguys. Because if you said Mac for
gaming, they roll their eyes.
Oh, they'd be like, there's nogames on that. Come on, bro.
Like, my son works on a Mac,but he games on a PC. I'm like, you
have to.
Apple has done us all dirty.It does not need to be that way.
But Apple is so unfriendly togames. As a developer, we wanted
to develop for Mac. It is a nightmare.

(54:59):
I was admiring your collectionof manga, your figurines, all this
stuff that's around here, theartwork. Maybe it's nerd. Just seeing
another nerd. What are some ofyour favorite characters in comics
or anime or manga?
Okay. Deku is the characterthat I will forever be sad I didn't
create my hero. Academia isexactly the kind of story I want

(55:22):
to tell. It is unbelievable. Ilove it so much. Now, my favorite
anime, like, for me, for me isNeon Genesis Evangelion. But like,
I'm not telling people to gowatch it because you're going to
be like, this is sus. But itis so good. Oh my God. It is like
a European art house film, butas a cartoon. The whole time I was

(55:43):
watching it, I was like, theymade this for kids? It's unbelievably
good. Unbelievably good. Sothat is by far my favorite. But yeah,
character wise, I'm going togo with Deku from My Hero.
Okay, now for more mainstreamstuff. Marvel or dc?
Marvel.
Any particular character or franchise?
I grew up absolutely lovingSpider Man. What they did with Iron

(56:07):
man in the movies isabsolutely, unbelievably cool. I
was a huge fan. The whole upthrough endgame, I just thought was
unbelievable. I am so blownaway by what they did. I don't think
people give it enough credit.
Okay, this is a deep cutquestion for Tom, your favorite Spider
man comic book artist.

(56:28):
Ooh, Todd McFarlane.
Okay. What is it you loved about.
He made it hyper detailed.Like, the way that he did the webbing
and stuff was nuts. ToddMcFarlane, at least for people my
age, was unparalleled. When hespun off into Image Comics, I was
just like, bro, this is crazy.I was buying everything unreal. And

(56:50):
by the way, a big reason why Ihate that this is true. A big reason
why American comics haveessentially become a failed state
and Japanese comics rule theworld. But it was. When it was happening,
it was pretty cool.
It was pretty magical to bealive around that time, at the height
of comics. Are you a fan ofRobert Kirkman's work?
I have. Very much so.Incredible storyteller. Incredible.

(57:10):
Yeah. I think he became thefirst non artist to become a Image
founder or a partner. Right.
I think you were right aboutthat. I didn't know it was non artist,
but I knew he was one of thecause. He wasn't there for the founding,
but they made him a, like,equal partner. I can't swear to equal,
but they made him a partner.But, dude, what he's done from a

(57:31):
storytelling perspective isunbelievable. He just gets the economy
of storytelling that'snecessary in comics. Unbelievable.
And the whole Walking Deadworld is just amazing.
Are you still watching?
We just started up the newestone where. What's his name? Reedus.
Norman Reedus.
Yes.
Washes up in France.

(57:51):
Yeah.
So we're only one episode.
Yeah, yeah.
That's the character name.
Yeah.
I'll report back, but weenjoyed the first episode.
Okay, but you've. You'vewatched the entire series? No.
Okay. We've watched maybe 40of it.
Okay. I think the peak ofWalking Dead madness and emotional
hooks was Negan and the whole.What happens? Did. Are you there?

(58:15):
I don't want to say anything.
I know of Negan, but we didn'tsee his arc. He's the guy with the
bat with. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wegot some bad things through the primary
prison. They left the prison.Then we watched some of the stuff
with Negan, but he's inManhattan, so we don't know, like,
his whole arc. But spoileraway. I mean, it's been out for whatever
10 years.
Well, I, I, I think that scenewhen they're all kneeling on the

(58:38):
ground and he's walking aroundwith this baseball bat and he tells
everybody to get in linebecause if they don't, somebody's
going to die. And then he, hebashes Glenn's brain out. It broke
my heart. And, and he, they,they took Steven Yeun's character
out and he was the heart. Ithink I even get emotional thinking.

(58:58):
It broke the show.
It broke the show. Yeah.Because then it just became like
we're just moving through.There's more dead people and more
new members coming in. But itstarted to kind of feel like the
heart was gone.
Interesting. I love that thatmakes you emotional. That is so interesting.
That's our story.
It is. I mean there's momentswhen in the hands of crafted like
good craftspeople and theyknow how to frame it and set it up

(59:20):
and get you hooked in andemotionally involved. Like Game of
Thrones before it got mad was amazing.
Yeah, Game of Thrones isincredible. Basically. Until the
last season. Then it was okay.
Last question. Light fun 1.What is a movie or an anime that
you're most looking forward toseeing that's going to be released
sometime in the future?
Ooh, I haven't seen SakamotoDays yet. I think it's out. But I

(59:43):
really enjoy the manga. Mangathat may have already been made into
anime and I just don't knowthat. I would love to see. What have
I read that's super dopeberserk but that already has an anime.
Would love to see that. Didthey make Trigun into an anime?
I played a video game.
They must have. That wouldprobably because it feels a bit old

(01:00:06):
fashioned now as a manga. ButI have a feeling that the anime be
pretty dope because it was inthat 90s timeframe I think. Ish.
So that would be interesting.There's not other than Sakamoto Days.
I think everything that I likein manga is already out in anime.
Oh, you know what's crazy? DanTo Dan. Dude, have you seen anime?
No.
It's so fun. Oh my God.They're doing a phenomenal job. That's

(01:00:28):
sick.
Your level of knowledge aroundmanga and anime is like surpasses
eclipse anything that I couldpretend to.
People that really know it aregoing to be like this guy. So yeah,
I'm definitely a lightweightjust given the time. But I won't
lie. There have been a fewtimes where I have fantasized about
like I'm just going to take ayear off and I'm going to watch and
read everything. Every.There's something in my brain that

(01:00:51):
it triggers, like a collectorvibe in me to have seen it.
Yeah, I hear you. I see thecollection in another room. Do you
cosplay?
I don't. I'm really weirdabout that. I don't like playing
dress up, but I love whenother people do it, but I don't like
doing it.
Okay.
I'm surprised even I'm like,huh, that's kind of weird. But yeah,
okay.

(01:01:11):
Tom, it was great talking toyou. Thanks for having us in your
studio.
Thanks for having me on theshow. This is Tom Bilyeu and you're
listening to the Future.
Thanks for joining us. If youhaven't already, subscribe to our
show on your favoritepodcasting app and get new insightful

(01:01:32):
episodes from us every week.The Future Podcast is hosted by Chris
do and produced and edited byRich Cardona Media. Thank you to
Adam Sanborn for our intromusic. If you enjoyed this episode,
then do us a favor byreviewing and rating our show on
Apple Podcasts. It will helpus grow the show and make future
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(01:01:56):
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342 - Winning Requires More Than Just Mindset - With Tom Bilyeu (Part 2)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}342 - Winning Requires More Than Just Mindset - With Tom Bilyeu (Part 2)