LinkedIn’s Untapped Business Potential - With Michelle J. Raymond | Episode 328 - The Futur with Chris Do

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
It is scary for a lot ofbusinesses to go, but everybody else
is doing it this way. I don'twant to be the one that stands out
and I think you have toconnect that. The greater risk to
the business is that you blendin. My name is Michelle J. Raymond

(00:21):
and you're listening to the Future.
I have talked to RichardMoore, I've talked to Jasmin Alic,
and I've actually did secondepisode with him, which was pretty
much fire. And to my surprise,the LinkedIn content does really
well elsewhere on podcasts andalso on YouTube. So I'm just happy

(00:42):
to have a different voice inthe LinkedIn creator space. And Michelle,
thank you very much forjumping on the podcast with me. How
are you doing?
I am doing fabulous and a goodday from Sydney. To all of your listeners
that might be joining fromanywhere in the world.
And for people who don't knowwho you are, can you please introduce
yourself and tell us a littlebit of your background story?

(01:03):
For sure. So I'm Michelle J.Raymond and the J is there just so
you can find me on LinkedInsearches. It's not to make me sound
smarter, which is whatsomebody asked me one day, but ultimately
I'm based here in Sydney, as Isaid, and I'm a LinkedIn specialist
that trains businesses on howto get active on the platform. I.
I've spent 20 years in B2Bspace in account management roles,

(01:27):
sales roles in themanufacturing industry. And it was
always dirty and a bit nastyaround the edges, but I was fascinated
with how things get made, andI still am to this day. And you might
be thinking, like, what isaccount managing and manufacturing
got to do with LinkedIn andhow am I here? Well, around 10 years

(01:49):
ago, I started a new job inthe chemical industry. So I used
to sell raw materials andingredients that go into beauty products
and I turn up at a new job ina new industry. And I just got my
job through LinkedIn. Prettycommon story back around then. And
what happened was my boss gaveme a customer list of 80 clients

(02:09):
that were spread aroundAustralia. So picture that's the
same size as the US with10,000 different ingredients to sell,
and said, go and sell. And Iwas like, I don't know how this maths
adds up, but I can't beeverywhere. It's just fantastic.
Physically impossible. And soI'd been messing around with creating
some content on LinkedIn and Isaid to him, do you mind if I do

(02:31):
this for this job? And hegoes, what's LinkedIn? I was like,
oh, you know where you getyour jobs through. And he's like,
yeah, is it free? And I waslike, I think so. And he said to
me, I don't care, just go andsell. And so off I went and figured
out if you build an amazingcommunity strategically on LinkedIn
and then you create contentthat's of value to that community,

(02:52):
boy did those sales comethrough. And so I am unashamedly
come from a sales background.But I, when I set up my own business
four years ago, I really hadto get across personal branding,
quick smart and branding formy business as well, because shout
out to any marketers that hashad the sales team take credit for

(03:14):
all of their work and thesales team takes all the glory for
the sale. I didn't realize thepower of branding and marketing.
So I just want to shout out toany marketers that are might be feeling
like the sales team doesn'tappreciate you. I can honestly say
I do.
Now that's a great story. Soyou've been doing content on LinkedIn
for as long as I've been doingcontent on YouTube. So I'm super

(03:36):
excited to talk to you. Onepoint of distinction here, if I heard
you correctly, you helpbusinesses get onto LinkedIn, right?
That's right. So typically,Chris, it's those people that say
we know we should be onLinkedIn, but. And they've identified
that all of their targetaudience is on the platform. That's
where the decision makers arehanging out. But they've been hesitant,

(03:58):
especially in the business tobusiness space. You know, it really
is just getting started now,which is crazy to think that the
B2C and E commerce, they'vebeen online for 15, 20 years. But
in business to business, it isliterally just getting started, which
it's mind blowing for me.
Okay. There's a lot for me totry to figure out with you. These

(04:19):
businesses who know theyshould be on there know that this
is potentially the mostconcentration of entrepreneurs and
businesses who are looking towork with people, to hire people.
The fact that they're notthere, the psychology of what these
businesses are going through,what's causing resistance or friction
for them, why they don't do it.
I think we have to rewind to atime before there was that thing

(04:40):
called the Internet. And Ihave been selling for long enough
to remember those times. And,and if you go back to that time,
the whole way that businesswas done was people like me in account
management roles would goaround and build relationships one
on one with customers. And itwas all about the little black book.
It was all about keepingsecrets. You didn't want your competitors

(05:03):
to know who you were workingwith, what you were selling them,
what price you were doing.That's where success came from. Fast
forward now you've gotinformation at your fingertips at
a rate that just is mindblowing. But what hasn't happened
is the culture of sellinghasn't caught up. We've still got
the same old KPIs, customervisits. How many calls do you have?

(05:24):
Like these kinds of things.And ultimately what's happening is
people still want to keepeverything a secret. Now in an online
world and selling online,we're asking them to throw that all
out of the window and nowstart to share everything with everybody.
And you can see people thathave been in that business, often
in senior leadershippositions, are just going, are you

(05:47):
guys nuts? There's no way wewant to tell people. Except now they've
realized that some of theircompetitors have got the jump on
them. And we're back at thatpoint now where it's like, well,
if you don't go now, you'regoing to get left behind. Like all
of those Internet deniers backthen, the advertising in the phone
book know, where are they now?They disappear. And so often with

(06:09):
these kind of industries, theydon't. They have a lot of repeat
business, a lot of ongoingbusiness, a lot of history. But it's
like what's happening now thatthese new players are coming into
the market and they're justgetting caught out.
I'm glad you brought thatperspective to the conversation,
that what has worked in thepast historically is the thing that's
actually keeping you fromtaking advantage of the next paradigm.

(06:29):
There's definitely a shifthere that's gone on, not only from
a technological point of view,but how we communicate ways of thinking.
It used to be it's aboutsecrets, trade secrets, and protecting
ip, certain processes, nondisclosures. And today, in the age
and in time of social mediaand social currency, it's all about
transparency in therelationship, the stickiness of your

(06:51):
brand and your communicationstyle and building community who
seeks you out so you're not somuch chasing them. That's perfect.
I think you gave us the rightkind of context for us to understand
why. All right. The kinds ofpeople that we typically talk to,
the LinkedIn experts, arereally trying to help solopreneurs,
solo operators. So I'd likefor us to focus more on the business
component to draw a sharperdistinction between the kind of expertise

(07:12):
that you have. I'm going toask this in a very selfish way. And
maybe this is the way for usto get into our conversation together.
I've been very fortunate toget a decent sized following on LinkedIn
and I'm also very fortunate tohave the kind of engagement and community
that I have. I've not beenable to be very effective at converting
those people into customers.And I'd love to get your insight

(07:35):
on this in any which way youthink this is going to be a productive
conversation.
Yeah, look, and that is apretty common question that I get
asked, you know, and I lovethat you've shared that, because
I think people when they'restarting out on LinkedIn, also faced
with this mountain of hang ona minute, I'm active on the platform,
I'm putting in all of thiseffort and I'm not getting any return

(07:55):
on that investment. And Iactually think that the problem that's
happened on LinkedIn and it'sa bit of a controversial opinion
here, and I'm just going toput it out there, is that there is
this undercurrent of don't besalesy on LinkedIn and I'm not sure
where it started and I'm notgoing to point the finger at anybody,

(08:16):
but what I think happened waswe got so focused on being of service
of people, which I'mabsolutely on board. Right. So just
to put it out there, sales forme is problem solving and helping
people. That's all it is forme. But what I think happened was
we're so busy sharingknowledge and empowering others and
being of service that weforget to talk about what we do,

(08:39):
the problems we solve and howour business exists literally to
solve problems for otherpeople. Like businesses exist so
that you can get paid to makeproblems go away. But I think we've
just made sales a dirty word.And I think it's to do with there's
so many bad DMs. Like, as wediscussed just before, you have an

(09:00):
inbox full of spam DMs thatare directed at products that you
probably have no interest in,you've never expressed a need for,
you can't even understand whythey're even targeting you because
it is just this mass numbers,spray and pray approach, which is
just awful. I'm not someonethat advocates for anything along

(09:21):
those lines, but I think weforgot the strategy for the business
on why we're there. And it'snot a bad thing to talk about what
you do and the problems thatyou solve. And it's all great to
be helpful. I love beinghelpful. It's Part of my brand. It's
why I love your content somuch. But there's also a piece of
it's okay to be salesy, aspeople say.

(09:44):
Okay, I understand that we getto play because we're paid at some
point. And so if we want tocontinue to play and be of service
to people, we got to make surewe pay some bills. But are there
specific strategies? Because Iam one of those people, I'm. I'll
throw myself out there. I tellpeople, your content sucks. Your
content isn't highly engaged.No one shows up to yourself because

(10:05):
it's so pretty much likefollowing the advertising model.
And you're pitching to menonstop on your content. And I keep
telling people, maybe thefirst thing you need to do is show
up for the people, dosomething that feels like an act
of generosity, and theneventually you can ask them for the
sale. So let's say I'm in thatspace. Like, I just went and pulled

(10:25):
up my analytics here. Are youa big analytics person?
I wouldn't say so. I lovelooking at the demographics part
of analytics, but the numbers,because they're so far out of our
control and quite often theytell a pretty bad story for a lot
of people, I think they putthem off from just being persistent.
So I'm on the fence is whereI'd say with analytics, okay, if

(10:47):
you've.
Ever looked at analytics,you'll know 10 times more than I.
Because I was recentlychatting with somebody from LinkedIn
and I'm like, okay, let mepull up my analytics. Cause I don't
even know what we're talkingabout. So I'm going to share some
analytics with you. It's notto say it's good or bad, but I want
you to listen to analytics andthen say, okay, Chris, I see some
problems already and feel freeto say whatever you want. Okay, so
I pulled it up here onLinkedIn. I'm looking at my thing.

(11:08):
It says 334,000 postimpressions in the last seven days,
which is up 110% because I'vebeen a little bit more consistent.
It says 36,000 profile viewsin the last 90 days, 8,500 search
appearances in the previousweek. Those sound like really good
numbers to me. But this is notreflective of any sales that we're
doing in terms of, like, realdollars in our bank account or prospects

(11:31):
that are qualified. What am Inot doing? Or what should I be doing?
Or whatever it is. What's yourperspective on this?
Look, and absolutely therewould be people listening to this
myself Included that woulddream about having high numbers like
that. The reality is, for alot of people, they're lucky to get
1,000 impressions in total forthe week. And so relying on posting

(11:51):
content alone, I think, iswhere people come unstuck. And your
way of doing business and whoyou are and what you've set up is
a little bit different to theeveryday business that's out there.
I would fit you more in theinfluencer category, which is completely
different to a normal everydaybusiness. So I'm going to talk to
the marketers that might beout there or business owners that

(12:12):
are looking at this. But Ithink there's an element of, I call
it what goes around comesaround. It's what my nan taught me.
And some of that is, what doyou do outside of your content? Do
you have a strategy foractually reaching out and connecting
with those in your targetaudience and nurturing those, you
know, social selling, for me,is finding the right people, connecting

(12:33):
with them and nurturing thoserelationships. So when they're ready
to buy, you are the firstperson or brand that they think of.
Now, a lot of people think thestrategy on LinkedIn is content alone.
And they keep saying to me,michelle, like, how do you have so
much success? And I'm like,because it's the things you can't
see. Yes. I post content ontwo company pages and my personal

(12:55):
profile pretty much daily,every week for as long as you can
remember. What you can't seeis how thoughtful I am. I might see
an opportunity for someonethat has nothing to do with me. I've
got nothing in it for me, butI will connect to people and say,
hey, you should have a look atthis. And so it's about using the

(13:15):
search bar. I would put a lotof dollars on a bet that most people
don't use the search bar aspart of their LinkedIn strategy.
It is the most underratedfeature that's there. Why? Because
they're too busy scrolling.And you have to keep in mind that
when people are scrolling,LinkedIn's job is to keep you distracted.
They're very good at it. Soyou have more ads go past your eyes.

(13:39):
Ultimately, that's how they'remaking a ton of money. Your job,
however, is to put theblinkers on, try and get out of that
home feed and get back into astrategy. So what's the game plan?
Who are you targeting, Chris?So that would be my first question.
Who's your dream customersthat you would love to work with?
Because if you can tell methat I can Tell you how I can give
you a LinkedIn strategy tofind those people, connect with them

(14:02):
and then go in through thatprocess. But most people don't even
have a dream customer thatthey're trying to target in the first
place. So they're just kind ofgoing all over the place on LinkedIn
and then end up exhausted, endup saying LinkedIn doesn't work for
them and moving on to the nextplatform where they have probably
the same problem as well.
Can I tell you what I thinkour dream customer is and we continue

(14:24):
down this rabbit hole?
Yeah.
Okay. You're the first personI've had on to talk about LinkedIn
who's even mentioned thesearch bar. So already this is kind
of interesting. As you cantell audience, hang in there. We're
going to get to some gold. Ifeel, I feel like the metal detector
is going beep, beep. I thinkthere's something going on here,
everybody. Okay. My dreamcustomer is pretty straightforward.
I understand who they are.They're a creative entrepreneur.

(14:45):
And when I say creative, Idon't mean you draw or you paint.
It means you're aprofessionally trained service provider
and you're solving a problemand you're usually creating bespoke
solutions for people. It's nota productized business. Next, you're
probably US based or in acountry where there's good arbitrage
and currency exchange becausewe probably price via the US dollar.

(15:07):
So if you're in a countrywhere the exchange is horrible, it's.
You're probably not acustomer. You've been in business
for three to five years at aminimum, you have a couple of people
on your team, so you're under10 people, but you're definitely
not over 30 because we don'tsolve those kinds of problems. And
you're in business. So you'vemade somewhere between a couple hundred
thousand dollars a year topossibly two and a half million dollars.

(15:27):
But you're looking to grow.You found out a lot of success early
on and now you're hitting thatplateau and you need business help.
And that's, I think, where wecome in and we serve that market.
Yeah, absolutely. So with allof those things in mind, things like,
you know that they're in theU.S. predominantly, that doesn't
mean you can't serve anyoneelse. But then we can narrow it down

(15:47):
and if you go to the searchbar, you can use keywords, you could
type in a target client, youcould narrow that geography down
to. Actually, we know that wehave more success with local entrepreneurs
in la. For instance, andyou'll probably find more than enough
results to keep you busy inthat. Then strategically move on

(16:08):
to the next area. So there arefilters for finding those kind of
geography areas. You can thengo into industries, you might realize
that most of them are workingin marketing services. You might
actually find that you've gota particular niche for people coming
from manufacturing like I did.But start to think about if you were

(16:28):
to look at where most of yourinquiries have come from with these
new clients that have reachedout from other platforms, what did
they all have in common thatyou could use the search filters.
So location industries, youcan see sizes of the company. You
could go and find those targetcompanies. As such, you could put
business sizes like there'sall kinds of different ways you can

(16:49):
do this. And this is for free.Right. So you don't need LinkedIn
Sales Navigator. I'm not a fanof LinkedIn Sales Navigator for most
people. Why? It's like givinga Ferrari to a learner driver. It
is super powerful. There'snothing wrong with the actual product.
It is a brilliant product.It's just not the right product for
most people starting out thatdon't even have a sales process.

(17:11):
The search bar is a much moreuser friendly version of that, a
paired back version that youcan really focus on. What am I looking
for now? The more that you canrefine that, and quite often what
happens is you teach theLinkedIn search algorithm by connecting
with a few peoplestrategically because it's going
to give you a list and thenwhat happens is it will start to

(17:34):
think, oh, how about youconnect with this person? Based on
your recent searches, we thinkyou might like this. And so there's
other ways that LinkedIn wantsto support you. Why? Go back to their
motivation. The more that youlove hanging out on LinkedIn and
it delivers results, the moreyou watch ads, right? So they want
you to be successful, theywant you to find the right answers.

(17:56):
And quite often it's findingthe first one or two people and that
could be someone that's like amicro influencer that's got everybody
hanging out with them. So finda much smaller creator that's like
the mini Christo of your idealclient in that industry and go and
see who's hanging out withthem and hang out there and it just
becomes so much easier.

(18:16):
Okay. So as I'm searching formy ideal customer, eventually I'm
going to hit pay dirt. Andonce I find that LinkedIn is already
trained to make othersuggestions and recommendations,
there are more people likethat around here. And now that I
found this person, what is thenext step that I need to do?
I think the next thing is justto take a look and show up and support

(18:37):
that person. Often a cold DMor a random connection request from
someone you don't know, mostpeople are sitting there with their
arms crossed, stay the heckaway from me, because they're getting
bombarded all day, every day.So from that perspective, if we just
slow this process down, right,there's no rush in trying to build
these relationships, which Ithink is also another mistake that

(19:00):
people make. They think, findthem, connect with them, sell to
them. Bang, bang, bang, bang.Oh, they didn't buy from me. I think
most selling that I've done inmy career took 18 months, sometimes
longer, give or take, youknow, up to five years. So there's
no need to try and just wham,bam, thank you, ma'am. You know,
it's like, just slow down. Sogo and support their content. If

(19:21):
they're creating, send them apersonalized connection message to
say, why do you want toconnect with them? And I often say
I'm trying to build mycommunity of, say, Sydney marketing
managers. Here's what you canexpect from my content. Don't worry,
you won't receive a spammessage if we connect, you know,
because I have a job title ora headline on LinkedIn that people

(19:42):
get a bit nervous about, and Iwant to put them at ease. I want
them to know why I come. AndI'm waving my little white flag.
I come in peace and I'm justcoming with curiosity. I want to
know more about them. Youcan't sell a product to someone that
has no need, doesn't want tobuy, and there's no point trying

(20:03):
to sell to them. But if youcome into those direct messages after
connecting with curiosity,just to find out, park the sales
side over on the bench for amoment and just think, what can I
learn about this person? Ittakes the pressure off you, and,
God, it makes a differentexperience to them because they literally
are now no longer going, oh,my God, I've got a duck and weave

(20:27):
because this person's tryingto get me. Nothing feels worse than
someone trying to get you onLinkedIn. So slowing things down,
just go in with curiositymakes a huge difference.
Okay, Michelle. I'm jaded. Ithink, because when people say, I
just want to connect, Ipromise you I'm not going to spam
you or sell you anything. Iactually know they're going to sell

(20:47):
me something eventually. SoI'm like, I don't really want to
get into this conversationright now. And I can tell, look,
the way they ask questionslike, Chris, what are you working
on right now? I'm like, I knowwhere this is going, going. You're
prospecting me right now. Idon't know you from Adam, and I'm
not really that interested inthis. So do you think that that's
a pretty typical reaction oris it because I get bombed so much

(21:07):
and relentlessly, like everyday, just in my inbox, everywhere
I go?
I think it's absolutely theexperience of most people on LinkedIn
every day. So as the good guysof LinkedIn trying to do things different,
you have to be aware andmindful of that. And whether it's
someone like yourself or it'sa C suite decision maker, or it's

(21:29):
anyone that's got founder orbusiness owner in their title typically
gets absolutely targeted bylazy people that aren't willing to
do the work. And so you haveto be mindful of that. And you can't
just say, hey, I'm not goingto spam you, and then go and do it
because you've broken thatdigital trust, which once you break

(21:49):
that, I don't believe you canever recover from that position.
And this is where I've alwaysscratched my head about these people
that are trying to connectwith a thousand people, burning 999
relationships to try and getone meeting. And I'm like, what is
going on here? Now, keepingthat in mind, what can you do? Show
up, be of service, be ofvalue, and just keep chipping away

(22:13):
at these things. And I wouldsay, in fairness to those that are
looking for quick wins onLinkedIn, I don't think they exist.
You might get lucky by beingactive, but realistically, take time.
And quite often businessesdon't have time to take. And this
is where I think sometimesthat urgency comes across where they
think more is better. But Iwould actually say come back down

(22:36):
and write a list of 10accounts that you wish you could
work with and see what you cando with those. First, follow up the
connection messages. Ifsomeone accepts, see if you can ask
them a question. So my secretis someone connects with the message
than trying to get onequestion to ask them about them.
Don't be the person at theparty that spends their whole time

(22:57):
talking about themselves,because guess what? Nobody's interested.
They couldn't care less. And Ithink you have to realize that. And
maybe it's because I've beenin sales for so long, it is literally
no one cares. They do care. Ifyou've got a solution to a problem
that they have, then they'reinterested. And that may not be today,

(23:19):
but it may be later. So justquestions like what's your favorite
part about your job? Is oftena question that I ask them. What
do you like least? Sometimesthey reach out to me. It's like,
what's the hardest part ofLinkedIn for you? Not here's what
I can sell you, here's mytraining program, here's how I work
with businesses. None of thateven gets into the conversation until
I can really understand whatis a problem that you have that I

(23:42):
can help you solve. And ifthere's no problem, there's no sale.
Coming back to that again, I like.
This idea that you need to beof service and if there's no problem
for you to solve, don't gochasing down that thing. I also like
that you're saying just focuson 10 people right now. Don't try
to do this in bulk or in massbecause it usually doesn't work.
Get to know some folks, asksmart open ended questions. Get to

(24:03):
know the person will talkabout yourself because no one's that
interested in you, but maybeyour mom and dad if that. Okay. So
if I reach out and they startengaging, I find the problem. I kind
of know what to do at thispoint. So I think there are so many
conversations we've had on ourchannel about this part. I think
you kind of gave me somethingto think about. Is there a different
strategy that you have interms of helping businesses to grow?

(24:24):
Because it sounds like a lotof this is social prospecting showing
up, being of service, maybecommenting on their posts, adding
some kind of value so thatyou're not coming in, blindsiding
them. Or maybe there's alreadya connection that's, that's already
there that you don't have towork that hard for. And then to do
that hard work and to start toengage with them in the DMs. Is there
something else that we need todo or to be aware of?

(24:46):
Yeah. So a lot of people maynot know, but I'm also known as the
company pages queen and I'mpretty sure that nobody else that's
been on your show will talkabout company pages like I do. And
I could probably hear thegroans or the see the eye rolls of
some people going, oh no,company pages on LinkedIn. Are we
really going there? Yes, we'rereally going there. And I want to

(25:09):
talk about them a little bitdifferently to how you may have Done
it. So we're not talking oldschool where it's just PR comms,
messages going out, all aboutthe business, all about, here's our
latest hire or fire orturnover or whatever, these kinds
of poor content. I want totalk about something that I call
page advocacy. And so this isfor people who are managing company

(25:31):
pages, but on LinkedIn rightnow, everybody talks about employee
advocacy. How can you getemployees to start posting content,
talking about the business andgenerating opportunities that way?
Like there are dime a dozenright now. But what I want to talk
about is you can actually useyour company page to set those employees

(25:53):
up for success. Now, for yourlisteners, it might be the employee
and the business owner. It's aone on one relationship and they
are the one and same thing.That's exactly how I got started.
And I managed to use mycompany page to build up the Michelle
J. Raymond brand faster than Icould do by myself alone, even though

(26:13):
nobody knew my company. It wasbrand new. Because on LinkedIn, Chris,
the amazing thing aboutcompany pages, especially for small
businesses, is that you getthe same features, the same space,
the same functions. And thisisn't about do we get the same reach
on post between company pageand profile? Right. Put that to the

(26:33):
side. Absolutely not. Ofcourse, I'm not here to change anyone's
mind on that. But if whenMichelle J. Raymond posts, there's
always this company brand thatshows up and supports it and you
start connecting those twobrands together, I now appear a much
bigger business, a morelegitimate business. I've now got
the power of not just mypersonal brand, but also the company

(26:56):
brand. And the two of themworking together is that one plus
one equals three. There's areal synergy between getting them
to work together and peopleget so focused on, hey, it's all
about how the posts perform.And if you just park that for a moment
and go, yep, I'm not here totell you anything different, but
how else can you use thatcompany brand to be the booster and

(27:18):
really put the spotlight onyou or your employees? And so things
like company pages can commenton posts, company pages can repost
employee posts. And if you'rethe employee, you're the business
owner, you're the consultant,it's fine, do that. You are only
going to help build thatpersonal brand. And so I want people
to look at it as, how can Iuse this other side of LinkedIn to

(27:42):
support building the personalbrands of my employees or myself?
And looking at it from a freshperspective. So this is the thing
that people cut that side ofLinkedIn off because they just look
at post impressions. But pageadvocacy, I think is a shortcut to
really giving you that step upwhen your competitors aren't doing

(28:03):
that. It's time for a quickbreak, but we'll be right back.
When I started my motiondesign company blind in 95, there
was a lot I didn't know. So Itried reaching out to other business
owners and professionals forhelp. What did I find? Many saw me

(28:26):
as competition and those whodidn't weren't able to give advice
that made sense for my line ofwork. Thankfully, I was able to find
my first and only businesscoach, Kieran McLaren, who mentored
me for 13 years. I alsolearned that my story isn't unique.
Many entrepreneurs feel likethey're left to figure everything
out on their own. It's why Icreated the Future Pro Membership,
a community I wish I had whenI first started. And I'd like to

(28:49):
invite you to check out allthat we have waiting for you inside@thefuture.com
pro.
And we're back. Welcome backto our conversation.
You're right about reachingengagement on company pages. I tell
people it's dead, don't evenbother because you're not going to
get the kind of impression butyou're talking about like this is

(29:09):
a way weirdly you boost eachother and you kind of create the
impression that there's a lotmore going on here. Now I have a
practical question. I haveother kind of concerns here and hopefully
you can address them, which isdo you write in two different voices?
Does the company write acertain way and then Michelle writes
a different way. And so eventhough you're writing both posts,
do you don a different voiceor Persona?

(29:30):
They're pretty similar, butthere is a slight difference. You
know, maybe on the companypage it's a bit more third person,
but the company page isMichelle J. Raymond's biggest fan.
So you'll check out the poston B2B Growth Co is my company page
and you'll see Michelle J.Raymond says this. So I tag myself.
So if anyone comes acrossthere and happens to discover my

(29:50):
company page, because if youhave a look at your analytics on
your page, you it will show upin searches. And the thing that I
want you to keep in mind is ifsomebody was to Google your business
name, your LinkedIn companypage, if you have one, is going to
be in the first few results.Why? Because LinkedIn's a trusted
platform. We can piggyback offtheir reputation. Now, if someone
comes across onto LinkedIn andfinds your company page, is it going

(30:14):
to be a ghost town, which is apoor reflection on who you are as
a brand, or is it going to besomething that rolls out the red
carpet, welcomes them in, andit's really clear they're in the
right place. And I've workedwith people in, you know, close to
20 countries around the worldnow. I don't want to give them a
reason to not trust me as asmall business owner. I want them

(30:36):
to know that I'm the realdeal. This isn't just a hobby for
me. It's not just something Ido on the side. And so by having
a legit company page that justticks over, I'm not putting as much
effort into it, but it is justreminding people, hey, Michelle J.
Raymond said this, and I'vegot two opportunities to show up
now. And so I don't know howpeople land on my page or my profile

(30:58):
or how they find me. It can bein all kinds of funny ways, but I
want to make sure that theyget the best impression. I know you're
on team branding. I knowbranding is important to you and
you know the power of it. Sojust think, if you've got two brands
working together, in thiscase, two is better than one.
Okay, Is this part of your thepower of two?
Yes, it is the part of thepower of two. And it came probably

(31:22):
from another side of thingsbecause, Chris, you may not know
it, but once upon a time, Istole 5,000 followers from the company
that I worked for. And this isa scenario that plays out every day
in businesses. And you thinkabout it. So I shared that I got
started on LinkedIn because ofthe job that I had in the chemicals
industry. I built the world'smost amazing community built around

(31:46):
beauty and personal care. Andit literally hit 5,000 followers.
And it was super nice. Ididn't know any better. I was just
connecting with people thatwould be interested, which makes
sense in hindsight. Butultimately I then eventually changed
jobs. The company that Iworked for, while I was setting that
all up and it was under mypersonal account, I eventually left.

(32:10):
They had nobody else in thebusiness creating content, nothing
on the company page. Andultimately the whole community went
with me into my next job,where I started talking about, these
products are the most amazingingredients, and so they got left
with nothing. And so if youthink about it, there's staff turnover
in businesses everywhere,right? That's just a fact of life.

(32:31):
So what do you do when theyleave? So if you've got the hero
that's got a really greatcommunity in your business. What
happens if they leave? Whathappens to your brand? And the other
part of it is how do youattract the best of the best to come
and work for your brand? Sothere's a couple of different angles
and having people poke around,because when you apply for jobs through
LinkedIn, you go to thecompany page, you have a look around,

(32:53):
what are you going to find? Soif you want the best of the best
to work for you, there's oneangle. So that's employer branding,
and that can be important. Butalso what happens is when people
and staff turn over, and asthe younger generations turn over
jobs more frequently, what areyou left with in the business? And
so this is what I want peopleto have a look about. And this is
why it's definitely the powerof two.

(33:15):
Okay, wonderful. There's alesson to learn on both sides of
this, which is you're notgoing to have your job forever. You
might leave or you might getfired. They might cut back their
staff. So if you build up yourpersonal brand, some of those people
will follow you. But this is acautionary tale for businesses who
don't mind their corporatepage. And they just. People are coming
and going and all of a suddenthey're like, hey, all our leads

(33:37):
dried up. What happened? It'sbecause you gave them nothing else
to engage with and it goesdead. Okay, so here's the question
I have for you. We don't havethat many people working for us,
but I find that many of mystaff don't like being on social
media. It's not a regularhabit routine for them, and especially
to be on LinkedIn. So we havefairly low engagement from my own

(34:00):
team, because if we tookeverything that you talked about,
the power of two, which Ilike, and then you multiply that
across eight employees, that'sthe power. I don't know, 64. I don't
know what it is. Is it eightto the square root of two or whatever?
Eight to the second power,that would be awesome. But people
don't want to engage. How doyou deal with that? Is that a company

(34:21):
policy thing? Is this aculture thing? What's going on there?
That's a human nature thing.You know, there's so many online
studies that show basically 9out of 10 people never, ever want
to, in an online community,show that they're available, especially
on LinkedIn. I think youprobably within your staff, out of
those people, you might havesome people that are really great

(34:42):
at TikTok or maybe Instagramor they've been established on Facebook
for a long time. And thesekind of things are very common. LinkedIn
is intimidating. It's aplatform that scares people. I don't
care whether you're a CEOthat's had 50 years of experience
and leading massivecorporations or someone that's starting
out fresh out of college oruniversity, everywhere in between.

(35:04):
Most people do not want to beactive on LinkedIn. And this is where
page advocacy can really comeinto play here. Because I found that
with the teams that I workwith and the businesses that I work
with, quite often you can getthose people to create some great
content that can go out ontothe company page. They're happy as
long as it doesn't have theirname on it. And so you can literally

(35:26):
start people from there. Okay,get comfortable. You can hide behind
the company logo and put yourwork out there and get them feeling
much more comfortable andrelaxed. And so I would say that
everybody within the businessis on a spectrum. And having someone
that's confident to createcontent regularly, that's the one

(35:48):
out of 10. And you shouldreally nurture that person and look
after them and appreciate andacknowledge, acknowledge them, because
they are the unicorn. And sowhat do you do with the rest of the
team? Well, you ask them, canthey take baby steps first? So I
often, during training wouldsay, if you're one of those people
that is currentlyaffectionately known as a LinkedIn
lurker, I. E. You log in, takea look around, don't click on any

(36:12):
buttons, and then disappear.All I ask you to do is see if it's
okay if you will like a postfrom one of your teammates or the
company page. Start with thebaby step. And when you're comfortable
with that, maybe you'll moveup to hitting repost and repost from
an algorithm perspective isnot great. It's not really going

(36:32):
to make that much differenceto anything. But it's that step and
that action that's that giantleap for some people. Like it really
is. And I think when you haveempathy for the people that work
for you, then you reallyunderstand that that's a big deal.
And then you go and youappreciate them. As a business leader,
you have to go and acknowledgethat that person did that and that

(36:54):
you create that safe space forthem to then take the next step,
which might be leaving acomment on the company page post.
And I know that there's somuch bagging out on LinkedIn, you
know, don't go and reshare thecompany blog or that's Bad practice.
And I think, yes, if we'rejust talking about the world from
a LinkedIn algorithmperspective, but we live in a much

(37:16):
bigger world than that. And Ithink it's really important just
to acknowledge that that couldbe a really huge step for somebody
in your team. So taking thatnext little baby step and then compounding
on that and going on to thenext one, where they're at in a year
could be that they'recomfortable in putting one post out
a week. And so just meetingthem where they're at with empathy

(37:36):
and just going, what do youneed? Because quite often people
don't actually know how to useLinkedIn. They pretend they do because
it seems like everybody elsedoes. And so having conversations
with them and trying todiscover what would make it worth
it for you as an individual,for me to help you build your personal
brand and when you connect itto them, because a lot of people,

(37:59):
Chris, this is what happens intheir brain. They go, if I do a post,
what will people think? It'sall been said before. They're judging
me. They might laugh at me.I'm dumb. English is my second language.
The list of fears goes on inpeople's heads. If I stuff this up,
am I going to lose my job?That might mean in the us I'm going

(38:21):
to lose my healthcarebenefits, I'm going to lose my house,
I'm going to lose my car, I'mnot going to be able to do my holiday.
And so that's what's going onfor people because it really is tied
to their income, which issuper scary. Can we just put that
out there? It's super scaryfor people. This is why I bring this
up. Just have some empathythat it is scary and see what can

(38:44):
you do for them to help themtake that next step.
Okay, so we kind of coveredthis idea that you can post on the
page, you can engage with yourown self. The voice can even be very
similar. Like, it's like avery close cousin, first cousin,
and it's okay. And you giveeach other credibility, engagement,
and it's a wonderful thing.Okay, so is there more that we need

(39:04):
to know about company pages?
Yeah, can we stop creatingcrap content on company pages, please?
Please. This is a publicservice announcement. I've got my
shot to say, look, companypage content has been horrific. It
literally looks like an ad,smells like an ad, feels like an
ad, and nobody needs more adsin their life. And I know you and

(39:28):
I can probably agree on thatone, that we're not coming onto social.
I Think you know, you wrotesomething. We're not coming onto
social to see an ad. And thesame goes with your company page
content. And so for me, it'sall about having the right balance
and keeping it in service ofyour ideal client. Talking about
those problems again, we'recoming back to that. How do you solve
somebody else's problems andputting yourself in their shoes?

(39:52):
And so I use a frameworkcalled rate for company page posts,
which is number one. Is theart, Is it relevant? Can we stop
just posting content becausewe want to say something? It's time
to get into your buyer's mindand have a look around. What are
they looking for? Whatinformation do they want? And so
starting with that, A is allabout authentic. And I don't mean

(40:15):
it in the overused kind ofterm, but I mean as in not the polished
version of company page poststhat we get, Chris. Like the ones
where everything's perfect,it's over, corporatized and branding
is coming out of everywhereand you get the stock images. Like
no one needs more stock imagesin their life. If I could stamp out
one thing for company pagecontent, it would be stock images,

(40:38):
right? So T is all aboutthought leadership. What is it that
you can teach someone elsethat they can learn about anything
that's going to move theneedle in their business that maybe
your competitors haven't?What's a new approach? What can you
see trending? What are thelegal changes that might impact them?
Like, really get out in frontand not just copy what everybody

(41:01):
else is saying. And then thelast one is E. E is for empathy.
You've heard me say that a lotduring this episode today. And it's
about putting yourself insomebody else's shoes. And I think
that's where company pagecontent comes unstuck the most, is
because it's so focused on thebusiness and trying to make the business
sound good that we forget thatwe're there to try and make the person

(41:24):
on the other side sound good.And the more you do that, when they
sit down and they've actuallygot a problem that your business
solves, that they're doing allthat research over time. You're on
the short list because we knowif you make that top three shortlist,
you're in with a chance. Butif you're not, because you're too
busy talking about yourself,then that opportunity's gone.

(41:44):
I like that. There's a simpleacronym here for us to follow. It's
called the Rate Relevant,Authentic, thought leadership, and
then empathy. Let's expand aLittle bit, if we can. The word thought
leadership is sometimesconfusing for folks, and I think
it's probably the one that'sleast understood. Can you expand
that and break that apart forus? What does that really mean, thought

(42:06):
leadership?
Yeah, it absolutely, I think,is the buzzword on LinkedIn of 2024.
I mean, 2021 was all personalbranding, but I think 2024 is thought
leadership. And everyone's gottheir own. Their own definition of
this. It's so funny because inmy mind, I've got a friend of mine,
Ashley Foss, and she alwaysjust goes, michelle, have thoughts.

(42:28):
Be a leader. And it really isat its fundamental level, that simple.
And so have thoughts. What'sthat? For me, it's something about
originality. It is somethingabout finding a unique twist on something
that might be a common problemin your industry. How does your business
solve it differently to whatmaybe your competitors do? Like,

(42:50):
give me a reason to choose Aover B. And there's not too many
real monopolies out there.Like, there's so many businesses
that really offer the sameproducts and services. What makes
you different and how do youapproach these problems different?
And I think as well, in aworld of AI, like, it's not being
the clone of what everybodyelse is doing. And so what are the

(43:14):
experts in your business?Sharing that other people can learn
from and solving thoseheadaches that keep people on the
other side up at night. That'swhat they're looking for. So unique
ways. Thought leadership helpsthem confidently make buying decisions.
And I think the other isreally that leadership part for me,

(43:35):
is your brand. It's not justindividuals. Your brand can actually
be an industry leader in thatspace. And again, that comes from
just not copying whateverybody else is saying. Like, it's
sometimes going out first. Itis sometimes going contrarian to
what everybody else is saying.The herd's going this way, and you're
prepared to die on that hilland stand by yourself over here.

(43:59):
And I think brands need to dothat more often. I think they play
it pretty safe. You probablyknow more about this than what I
do with the clients that youwork with. But I think there's an
element of you have to be okayto challenge the norm. And I would
love to see more of that.
Well, I think if you're sayingeverything that everyone's saying,
then what's the point oflistening to you? If you start opening

(44:20):
up with platitudes, these kindof empty statements or these truisms,
everybody already knows it'strue and good. Why would Anyone care?
So you kind of have to zig orzag when everyone else is going one
direction. And to saysomething that's different, to have
a perspective, a point ofview, I understand that people are
a little scared about thatkind of stuff. Do you often work

(44:41):
with clients where they say,michelle sounds good. I'm intellectually
right there with you, but I'mnot sure I have a contrarian point
of view. What do we do then?
Yeah, or any personality intheir content at all, really. Most
brands are pretty bland at theend of the day. It is quite risky
in their mind, trying to findthe balance between corporate guidelines

(45:06):
and having great socialcontent that really stands out and
is different to theircompetitors. And quite often when
they do that competitoranalysis, they look around and go,
well, everybody is doing this.I'm going to do that too. Maybe my
own slight flavor of it, butit's not really going to be that
different. And there is a riskthat it feels like when you're trying

(45:28):
to do things different, it isscary for a lot of businesses to
go, but everybody else isdoing it this way. I don't want to
be the one that stands out.And I think you have to connect that.
The greater risk to thebusiness is that you blend in. And
it's really hard. I know thebiggest thing that I struggled with
when I first started in my ownbusiness was the concept of building

(45:49):
a niche. It's something thatfeels so counterintuitive, and even
to this day, to me, it'ssomething that I probably struggle
with, is that by being onething to such a specific audience
and being the obvious choiceto them, felt like I could never
work with anyone else everagain. And so that happened to me.
Like, I was the company pagesqueen. Everybody in the world knew

(46:13):
me for company pages, but Iwas like, I write really amazing
profiles, or I can do socialselling, training, and I can do all
of these other things. But Ihad to separate what I'm known for
and what I do. And this iswhere having two brands really helped
me, because B2B Growth Cocould do all the services and talk
about that a little bit more.And I could be known for company

(46:34):
pages and all the other thingsthat I do. So it does feel counterintuitive
to go out on your own andthink that you're in no man's land.
But the fact is, it is like agiant big game of Where's Waldo?
On LinkedIn and you have tofind the thing that makes you be
the Waldo that stands out. Andtoo many people are the crowd. Ultimately,

(46:56):
that's what's going on. Forbusinesses especially, I think the
biggest risk that they've gotgoing into 2025 is being bland and
playing it safe. And thosethat are prepared to do a little
bit of trial, you know, youdon't have to go crazy. I'm not saying
throw it all out the window.Use your branding guidelines as the

(47:17):
guardrails. But for somepeople, it might be just try a meme,
you know, like try some othercontent format out there just to
see how it plays with youraudience and being brave to try it
once. It's not going to blowup your brand trying something once.
It's that experimentingmindset that I think really makes
the biggest difference.
I have to say this. When yousaid memes, it doesn't bring a smile

(47:39):
to my face. There's somethingso foolproof, almost like effortless,
is to share a dumb meme. Sharebecause it lets people know that
you have a sense of humor andthe weird sense of humor you have
because there's many differentkinds of memes. I like to share dad
jokes which made makes mychildren cringe. And it's like, deal
with it. I like them andthey're like, oh, dad face palm.

(48:02):
You know, but. And mycommunity is like, yeah, because
I'm a dad. I'm 52. This iskind of what makes me laugh. And
it's so bad. It's good andlove it or leave it, it's totally
fine with me.
And it's that relatability.But it's also, we're humans and it's
a social platform. At the endof the day, we're going on there

(48:23):
to be entertained, educated,inspired. These are the not just
sold at all day, every day.And again, if you're prepared to
try something different andfor some people, it might be you're
an amazing graphic designer.That is not my skills. I'm here to
confess Cross Chris. But thefunny thing is the worst my designs
are because, you know, I'mjust like photoshopping me or anything

(48:44):
along those lines. We're notfriends. But they're so bad. They're
good, you know, like, they'reso bad that they get attention because
people are laughing atMichelle. Why did you use a smiley
face photo in that? You know,you're standing in a prison cell
lineup, you know, like. And soit gets the attention. And so I discovered
that by accident and then I'verepeated it a few times and it helped.

(49:06):
You know, the team at DreamData are a company that absolutely
Nail the memes. Like they'vefound the formula of what works for
their audience and theyskyrocket. But it's not that they're
doing it every day. They'rebacking up product demos, they're
backing up their stuff. It's awhole part of a system and a playbook
that they've created. But thememes are definitely what gets them

(49:28):
the most attention. So much soI got to go to their office in Copenhagen
and, you know, they've gotcopies of the post that perform so
amazing. They're in photoframes up on the wall, like they've
become artwork in the office.That's how successful they're being.
But I think it's that trialand error mindset, that one post
won't break a brand and you'vegot to give it a go. And so, yeah,

(49:51):
it's easier said than done. Iappreciate that people have a lot
of reporting structures in alot of business that they've got
to keep happy. And it could belike a little. For me, one little
thing that I did. All of myphotos are happy smiley faces, Michelle.
Bright colors. My branding'sbright pink, bright blues. All digitally
optimized to show up great ona screen. But sometimes I'll do a

(50:12):
sad face in a black and whitephoto and that immediately captures
people's attention becauseit's different. So breaking those
patterns could be your way ofdoing something different and so
doesn't always have to besomething massive. It can be little
things that you can try, butit's the trial and error that's most
important.
I know you've already kind ofcovered this by whole flipping the

(50:34):
switch. And it's not aboutyou, it's about them and serving
and being of service to peopleand having deep empathy for the kinds
of things you're goingthrough. And you can make your content
much more interesting. I'm allon board with that. That's my whole
thing anyways. Is thereanything else that we might be missing
here from this kind ofperspective of how businesses can
utilize LinkedIn, get contentgoing and activating certain things

(50:55):
that we're not really thinkingabout. Is there anything else you
want to share with us?
Yeah, I think there'ssomething that I'm pretty passionate
about, especially with companypages at the moment. Is. And it probably
applies to personal contentjust as much if I think about it
now. But ultimately I wantpeople to stop and think, how will
this feel to the person on theother side when this lands with them?

(51:18):
And I would talk about it in away of what's the energy that you're
sending out with it if it is atick and flick, we've done our quota
for this week. The person onthe other side feels that. And when
they feel that, they're like,this isn't for me. It feels icky.
It feels like you've just beenslimed on. And I want people to stop
and think, okay, if I took thepressure off to do more posts because

(51:40):
everything seems to be focusedon numbers, if I took that back and
went, what is one good postthat I could do that I'm going to
put some effort into andreally make sure it's in service
of the person on the otherside. I'm going to get into their
shoes and figure out what postcould I create that would make a
difference to that person if Icreated content from that space?
And being in service feels alot different to someone going, oh

(52:04):
hey chatgpt, could you pleasewrite me five LinkedIn posts with
lots of rocket emojis andoverused words? And we're just going
to make sure we hit five forthe week. That's why content doesn't
work. And it especiallydoesn't work right now when so many
people are doing the samething. And again, coming back to
what you said, zig when theyzag or vice versa. And I just want

(52:25):
you to think about what doesit feel like for the person on the
other side to have thatcontent land in front of their eyes.
And if you wouldn't stop forit, I don't care about your branding
and your corporate guidelines.If you wouldn't stop for it, stop
complaining about yourimpressions and your reach and your
engagement when your targetaudience doesn't. And a bit of tough

(52:47):
love here, but you can bang onabout your corporate guidelines and
then you don't get to whingeabout how things aren't working out
on a social platform. BecauseI think quite often it's to tick
the box to get it done and notto be in service of the person that
you want to help. And itsounds like it's an easy change,
but it really changes aculture within a marketing team or

(53:10):
the person responsible forcreating content to shift. It's not
about you, no one cares. It'sabout them. And so getting back to
when did you start making itabout you and not about them? And
especially on company brandedcontent. But I think these days with
AI, it's definitely seepedacross into there and we're going
for volume. It's justhorrendous. It's like I'm looking

(53:34):
at LinkedIn, my feed right nowgoing, what happened? This is not
the LinkedIn that I love. Ilove unique thoughts. I love people
that challenge things. I lovepeople that come at things from a
different angle. That's whatI'm looking for. I'm not looking
to just get a post that justregurgitates something. Can we say

(53:55):
no to regurgitating? Maybethat's what I don't like.
There's a lot of that going onthough. It's not just on LinkedIn,
it's all through social mediabecause original thought is actually
hard to come by. And peoplelike shortcuts. They like to see,
oh, this is a shortcut, shinyobject of the month, of the day,
the soup du shore. And theygrab that and then they just put
it on something else. Theymight change it ever so slightly.

(54:15):
And in a way, social mediaworks like that because it's the
sharing and proliferation ofideas. But then if you're sharing
other people's content andother people's ideas, it begs the
question, what are your ideas?Why should I follow you? Why should
I give up some of my time inmy social feed for the things that
you're going to save? You'rejust going to repurpose and regurgitate
other people's content. Now,Michelle, you said things that are

(54:38):
fairly logical. I understandit. There's a lot of people who are
not going to be able to followthis. They continue to put out ad
based things that areinsensitive to the audience. They
have low empathy for them. Andwe kind of have to just ask the question,
when do you want to changethis relationship or this dynamic
that you have with yourcommunity? And when you decide that

(55:01):
re listen to this episodeagain because you have to have an
open mind to it, right? Igotta ask you one more question before
running out of time here. Youwere talking about certain trend
lines that you see, I'm notone to pay much attention to trends.
And you're like in 2021 you'relike, it's all about the personal
brand. Then you said 2024 isabout. What did you say 2024 was

(55:21):
about?
All about thought leadership.It's the year of thought leadership.
Okay, well, let's look intoyour crystal ball. What is 2025 all
about? What are you seeing there?
I see two sides. The dark sideof me looks at next year and I'm
scared that we're going to endup in mountains and mountains. More

(55:42):
of carbon copies, clones,unoriginal content, templated Content
that's faster and easier to dothan ever. I'm sure as the generative
AI tools become smarter, asmore and more people create apps
for that, there will be peoplethat will flock towards that, which

(56:02):
makes standing out online muchmore difficult. Going into 2025,
I think as we're coming intothe end of this year on LinkedIn
especially, most people areprobably experiencing pretty big
drop in numbers right now. Butwhen we look at what LinkedIn came
out last year and said, whatthey want to reward, so I'm going
to stick with this and hopethat it plays out, is the LinkedIn

(56:26):
algorithm is geared towardsrewarding knowledge and advice. So
I think those people who comeback and separate themselves as being
in service of their communityand offering that to their audience
are the ones that are going tofind their space. Now, what they
say as far as their algorithmgoes is that we're talking about

(56:48):
knowledge and advice for onespecific audience. So having that
target audience in mind,always come back to who are you actually
targeting on LinkedIn? Alwayscome back to that. What is the audience
that you're in service of?They want to talk about one topic.
So try to stay on your topic.Doesn't mean you can't have multiple
topics within your brand, butyou know, an audience that wants

(57:10):
to talk about your topic andgenerate conversations. Chris I really
hope that we move from just,it's not just posting to it's conversations
that build community. Andcommunity I hope becomes a buzzword
next year. I hope that there'sa focus that moves to this, both
for brands and forindividuals, because community is

(57:31):
the thing that outplays anyalgorithm. When you build relationships
that are collaborative, thatyou can then build referral partners
that you can build, then haveother people selling on your behalf
or basically it's how I endedup here because Ilya shout out to
him was a stand for me inasking you could I come onto this

(57:53):
podcast. And that's the realpower of LinkedIn. Those partnerships
is where you can get businessgrowth. It's where you get opportunities.
Whether it's maybe you want tobe a speaker, maybe you want to be
on a board, maybe you need anew position. All of these things
come from relationshipbuilding. And so I have my fingers

(58:14):
crossed that it's the latter,not the former that plays out, I'm
not sure, but I'm certainlygoing to be fighting for it.
Wonderful. Well, you may haveinfluenced a few people, so we'll
make sure that we're going totimestamp this today. We're having
this conversation, it'sOctober 9, 2024. So let's see what
happens in 12 months time. Wecan look back on this moment and

(58:37):
say, oh, she was right, or shewas concerned and it went down the
dark path, or we avoided apotential disaster. There are a lot
of cookie cutter AI chatresponses to posts and it, it annoys
me a little bit. I'mappreciative of the engagement, but
at the same time it's fakeengagement and I'm trying to find
the real people so I cananswer them. And sometimes I'm fooled.

(58:58):
For a beat I'm like, is thatreally a person? No, it's not. And
then I was just like, I'm kindof annoyed by it. So I'm hoping that
the algorithm gods that theyare understand this and can shift
the dynamic to counterbalancethe amount of content that's proliferating
by faceless, thoughtlessmachines. We saw that on Instagram.
The CEO had said, you knowwhat, we're going to weight content

(59:21):
a little bit differently. Ifyou reshare someone's post, you're
going to get less and lesstraffic. We're going to give the
first person the originatorthought more of the traffic so that
it feels like it's moremotivating for you to go and create
that. Because if somebody justgrabs your thing and puts it somewhere
else, they get as much trafficas you do. It doesn't feel like you're
going to want to make morecontent. And without those people,

(59:43):
there's nothing for us toshare. It's been a pleasure talking
to you, Michelle. I appreciateyou taking a look at a little bit
of some of the problems I haveand sharing with us a completely
different perspective on howto use LinkedIn for businesses in
the B2B space. And your, yourcomfort with sales and realizing
there's a business agenda herethat we got to take care of. Otherwise

(01:00:04):
there's no sharing of any kindof content at all. Appreciate you,
Michelle. Thank you.
It is my absolute pleasure andI hope that this inspires some, you
know, somebody out there toreally look at what they're doing
and say, what could I changeup? Because you know that your content's
not working when you're notgetting leads in the door. It is
that simple. So if you'resomeone that's struggling to get

(01:00:25):
leads, you've got nothing tolose by trying this and everything
to gain.
If people want to find outmore about you, where should they
go?
Well, no surprises, but you'llfind me over on LinkedIn. Michelle.
J. Raymond is where you'd findme. Please let me know that you listen
to this podcast. I would loveto connect with more listeners and
I've got content going outevery day that will help you get
through the challenges thatwill inevitably come with LinkedIn,

(01:00:49):
because I think it's going toget harder going into 2025. So if
I can help anyone out, by allmeans, reach out.
And I just want to say thisbefore I go away, that if LinkedIn
implodes and you no longerfind that it's a place you want to
play, I believe you have asecond career in voiceover talent.
It's something you might wantto look into if a very soothing,
calming voice. Even when yousaid some, like, here, shots fired,

(01:01:12):
I'm like, it's still prettysoothing. It's like a bullet coated
in Teflon. It's going to justgo right through the body and it's
all good.
Oh, my God, I love it. I'mgoing to take that sound bite and
I'm going to remind myself myvoice is calming. My voice can help
people. Maybe I could startdoing some wake up, good morning
messages to people. You areamazing. You are smart. Rise and

(01:01:35):
shine.
I think you should do whatMatthew McConaughey does. He has
a good night bedtime storiesto help you sleep. It's a mindfulness
thing. He has a very soothingvoice and he found something. You
never know.
Oh, well, I've listened tohis. I love his accent. He's the
king of the Howdy, y'all. So.Which, you know, I'm a fan of. So

(01:01:57):
I am definitely drawn to thoseones. But I just want to say thanks
again for your kindness to thepeople that you help, because the
reason that you have been onmy bucket list to have this conversation
is because I'm absolutelydrawn to the way that you give so
willingly to your community.And I know that that's possibly not

(01:02:18):
your natural space as anintrovert to be surrounded by so
many people and giving all thetime, but I just want to acknowledge
you as a good human and Ithink the world needs more good humans.
So thank you for being you.
Oh, thank you. And on thatnote, everybody, that wraps our conversation.
And we will include links toMichelle's social media accounts
and anything else she wants toshare with us. Be sure you check

(01:02:40):
the description or if you'rewatching this on YouTube in the description
below. That's it for me. Seeyou guys next time.
My name is Michelle J.Raymond, and you're listening to
the future. Thanks for joiningus. If you haven't already, subscribe

(01:03:00):
to our show on your favoritepodcasting app and get new insightful
episodes from us every week.Week the Future Podcast is hosted
by Chris do and produced andedited by Rich Cardona Media. Thank
you to Adam Sanborn for ourintro music. If you enjoyed this
episode, then do us a favor byreviewing and rating our show on
Apple Podcasts. It will helpus grow the show and make future

(01:03:23):
episodes that much better. Ifyou'd like to support the show and
invest in yourself whileyou're at it, visit thefuture.com
and you'll find video courses,digital products, and a bunch of
helpful resources about designand the creative business. Thanks
again for listening and we'llsee you next time.

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LinkedIn’s Untapped Business Potential - With Michelle J. Raymond | Episode 328

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}LinkedIn’s Untapped Business Potential - With Michelle J. Raymond | Episode 328