Stop Calling Yourself a Thought Leader (Do THIS First) - With Brian Miller | Ep 358 - The Futur with Chris Do

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Best training ever for theworld of business was being a magician.
What you do, Brian, is youhelp people who are experts become
speakers.
And there's a differencethere, hopefully to then to become
a thought leader.
Anybody speakingprofessionally needs one story that
they can tell over and overand over again.
Anytime somebody asks thatanswers the question, why am I listening

(00:20):
to you?
My name is Brian Miller andyou're listening to the future.
I was listening to one of yourepisodes while I was cooking dinner.
You were talking about thought leadership.
And you know, it's a topicthat comes in up a lot and I was
loving the episode the whole way.
It was like 40 minutes into anepisode and everything had been great.
And then you asked the guest aquestion about thought leadership

(00:41):
and they gave a vague,nondescript answer like most people
do when asked about thought leadership.
And it made me angry.
Not really, but it just, Ijust went, there's a better way to
talk about this.
And it's one of my little pet peeves.
And so I reached out to you tosay, hey, would you like to talk

(01:02):
about thought leadership in away that's not fluffy and vague?
Yes, I would.
And I have to admit to you,I've had problems with that term
for a long time.
It seems very self important.
I mean, there's two words inthere that are like, can't you just
deal with one?
Like, I'm a thinker.
I'm a leader.
No, I'm a thought leader.

(01:23):
Wow, that's a lot.
Okay, so if you're justjoining us, Brian, can you introduce
yourself and tell us a littlebit about your story?
Yeah, sure.
Thanks Chris, Appreciate it.
So, Brian Miller, I am aformer professional magician turned,
I'm not going to say thoughtleader turned speaker.
You can say it.

(01:43):
You can say.
You can't.
No, you can't because youcan't say it about yourself.
That's the point.
Other people can say it about you.
No, so I'm, I'm a speaker onHuman Connection.
So I do corporate culture, lotof health care, patient experience,
that, that kind of stuff.
But then somewhere along theway I started getting people asking
me to help them with their ownspeaking engagements because I had

(02:04):
given a TEDx talk that wentmega viral.
So I started helping peoplewith TED talks and then eventually
built a message design firmfor experts who want to speak.
Not for speakers, but for experts.
So basically we help smartpeople explain their big ideas to
the rest of us.
Okay.
That's what we do.

(02:25):
I think that's worth divingand diving deep into and Spending
the next hour or so talking about.
Because we have friends thatare experts, we have friends that
are speakers.
Sometimes they're not experts,and some of our experts aren't speakers.
So let's figure out where they overlap.
But let's start with the definition.
Like, how do we define thought leadership?
That's not fluffy.

(02:46):
Thought leadership.
I wish we had a better term.
I think, just like you do, Ithink many people wish we had a better
term for that.
But as you noted, expert isnot the same thing.
And personal brand is not thesame thing.
You know, personal brands,thought leadership, they're related,
they intertwine, but they'renot the same thing.
We can do personal brandingreal quick.
I can give you my vantage onthat real quick to distinguish it

(03:08):
from thought leadership,because I know you talk about personal
branding a lot.
I do.
So for me, a personal brand,everybody has one.
Whether you like it or not.
Obviously it's it.
There's nothing you can do tonot have one.
The question is, are youintentional about it or not?
Right.
And for me, a personal brandis the promises you make and the
expectations you create.
That's it.

(03:28):
Really simple, really easy.
Promises you make and theexpectations you create.
Do you make promises andfulfill them?
Do you create expectations andlive up to them?
So we think of people withgreat personal brands.
I don't know Brene Brown.
It doesn't matter if she's onX or making a LinkedIn post or on
stage speaking or doing a TEDtalk or on a podcast.
You know, it's her.

(03:48):
Because there's promises shemakes and she upholds them.
There's expectations she creates.
She lives up to them every time.
So that's Bernie Brown.
Right?
So that's a personal brand.
Not everybody who has apersonal brand, which is everybody,
is a thought leader.
And thought leaders are, ofcourse, people who pave the way they
lead with their thoughts.
But.
But I think of it very, very specifically.

(04:09):
There are three things thatyou have to do to be a thought leader,
and you have to do thempublicly and consistently.
First, you must make assertions.
Second, you must make judgments.
And third, you must make predictions.
Assertions, judgments, predictions.
Publicly and consistently.
So we can go into any of that.

(04:30):
Start anywhere you like if youwant to.
Well, that seems pretty clear.
As I'm absorbing this, I'mgoing to map it to other things in
my mind to see if it passedthe test in terms of how I've been
thinking about it and who I see.
So if my brain is kind of likegrinding away at something Else,
because that's literally whatI'm doing.
Let's go through each one ofthese things then.
Okay.
It seems pretty fair.

(04:51):
You have to say somethingthat's an assertion, Right?
You have to have a point ofview, and you have to figure out
what side of that fence youwant to be on.
So I think there's somejudgment going on there.
And then you kind of have tolead, I think, by forecasting what's
going to happen.
Happen.
Right.
So there we go.
Let's break it down then.
Assertions.
How do you want to talk about that?
Yeah.

(05:11):
So it's funny.
All three of these thingsscare people.
It's not like there's any.
It's not like you go, oh, oneof these things scares people more
than others.
I've worked with, you know,many of our own clients.
The one, the first time I.
I pitched this to them, I go,assertions, judgments, predictions.
All three of those words makethem go.
It's.
It's very scary.

(05:31):
So assertion is saying, thisis true.
I believe this.
Right.
It's a statement of fact.
And they usually come out asbeliefs or values.
Right?
So for me, in the space ofhuman connection as a speaker, I
believe everyone deserves tofeel heard, understood, and valued.
That is just.
I plant my flag in the groundand I go, I believe that.

(05:54):
And instantly, you know a lotabout me.
You don't have to know me personally.
You just know a lot about me.
Right?
And so people get really,really nervous to do this.
What happens most of the timeis they use hedging language.
I think maybe sometimes incertain circumstances, and like,
nuance is important,obviously, in life and in discussion.

(06:17):
But the problem with, if youwant to be a thought leader, if you
want to lead the way, peopleare very nervous to follow someone
who doesn't sound sure ofthemselves or sure of where they're
going or sure of what theybelieve in.
You got to just.
Just say the thing.
You got to say it.
You know, there's a reasonthat Malcolm Gladwell is famous and
not the hundreds of scientistsand researchers on which he has built

(06:40):
his work, right?
Because the scientists andresearchers who have to do this,
they have to say, this wastrue this one day for 12 people in
this room while the moon wasin retrograde.
They have to.
That's what science is.
But you'll never hear of them.
Nobody will ever read those papers.
But Malcolm Gladwell reads allthat stuff, puts it into a book.

(07:00):
Probably 50% of it is wrong,if not more of it.
Some cases, like he's on anapology tour right now for stuff
he said In a book 20 yearsago, the one that made him famous.
But he starts the conversationand the culture, people still talking
about 10,000 hours.
It's been debunked a billiontimes, doesn't matter.
The idea has permeated the culture.
Because he was wanting to go,I think this, he just made the assertion.

(07:23):
Okay, let's unpack this.
Because everybody has beliefsthey believe to be true, but it's
probably connected to theother two, which is they say things
that are true and usuallyuniversally accepted to be true.
So I want to see if there's aperspective on that.
For example, they'll saythings like, I believe in justice,

(07:45):
I believe in fairness.
I'm sure there's some peoplewho don't believe that, but the vast
majority of us already believe that.
So is it a condition of yourassertion that it needs to be something
that not everybody believes tobe true?
Okay, so it's not a conditionof it.
But if you're only sayingthings that everybody believes and

(08:06):
you haven't said anything.
Right.
I mean, there's just, there's,there's no point in only saying things.
Every, even what I said,everyone believe, everyone deserves
to feel heard, understood and valued.
Right?
That's to meet people like meand you.
You're like, well, obviously Igotta tell you something.
I work with a lot ofexecutives who do not believe that
this is true.
I talk to a lot of, like a lotof organizations broken on purpose.

(08:27):
Right.
Not by accident.
So you would think everyonebelieves this, but I think more often
than, I mean, our worldviewsare so shattered these days and so
siloed that when you actuallystate it outright and not.
And you don't do the.
You can get a nuance later.
Yeah, right.
But first, lead the way.
Bring people in, engage.

(08:48):
And if people debate with you,that's still good you.
Because that's, that's leadership.
That's bringing people into a conversation.
So those people, thoseexecutives, those leaders that you're
thinking about that mightdisagree with you, would they ever
openly disagree with you?
That's a great question.

(09:08):
Would they ever openlydisagree with me?
So I'm at a point now, I thinkwhen people see the work I do in
human connection, they think,wow, you must work with terrible
companies, people who need tobring in someone to talk about human
connection.
Right.
And it's like, no, they selfselect out.
Yeah.
So what happens is, because Iput my stake in the ground, the people
who get on my discovery callsand talk about their events.

(09:30):
They have world classcultures, they're already the best
of the best.
And what they're doing isbringing in someone like me to just
share a different perspectiveon the thing they're already good
at, they already believe in.
But the reason they know thatI can come in and do that is because
I state outright the beliefthat they associate with.
So it does help us.
It's a very kind of SethGodin, like, not everybody's for

(09:51):
you and that's okay.
Right.
You need to be able to lookpeople in the eye and just say, I'm
not for you.
And this is one of the ways wedo it.
Yeah.
Okay.
It's interesting.
Okay, so in my mind, I'mthinking an assertion is to just
say something kind of boldly,to not only say what we all believe,
but to say something that's alittle bit different than what we

(10:11):
all believe.
And that way it's like, wait aminute, you stand for that.
That's kind of interesting.
And then usually a fightensues and people, you know, I was
on an interview yesterday andsomebody's like, Chris, you're a
very controversial person.
You're polarizing.
I'm like, I don't think I'mcontroversial at all.
I don't think I'm polarizing.
You couldn't tell from thecomments because that's what they
come at me for.

(10:32):
I just believe what I believeand I'm not afraid to say it.
And it turns out to be thingsthat people have issues with.
Well, doesn't that happen atscale though?
Right.
So if you're only talking, ithappens more than more people.
I mean, I heard you.
I was watching a video youjust uploaded the other day at Adobe
Max, whatever it was, and youwere talking about, you know, what,

(10:54):
the videos that initially wentviral, the, the reels, and suddenly
you're in front of 40 millionpeople and those aren't all your
people.
Right.
So of course, once you getoutside of your immediate community,
you're gonna get morepushback, but you will also find
more followers, moreinterested people.
Yeah.
Okay, so let's add that to the conversation.
To say that you can say thingsand the, the circle, the size of

(11:18):
the circle, people who hearthat message will also kind of determine
how many people disagree with you.
Because first it's likefriends, friends and family, you
know, and then friends offriends and family.
And then it's not friends andthen haters.
And eventually you get there.
Hopefully, you know.
Yeah, exactly, hopefully.
And, and that's, you know, IWas a magician for 10 years.
And so haters just come with territory.

(11:40):
It was.
It was best training ever forthe world of business, was being
a magician.
It just, you know, you.
You walk up to a group ofpeople, cold strangers, and you have
to convince them to not onlystop the conversation and the laughter
that they're already having,fully focus on you, and then you
have to lie and deceive.
Lie to them and deceive themfor a few minutes and walk away where

(12:00):
they think, boy, I'm so gladhe interrupted us and lied to me.
That was so much fun.
Right?
So it's just like, yeah, haters.
You know, I hesitate with theterm haters because there's a big
difference between people whoare genuinely engaging with your
ideas and have a differentviewpoint, which is.
It's.
But it's hard to tell on theInternet when all the comments look
the same, right?
Oh, yeah.
Like it's one of the problems.

(12:21):
Yeah, I've had my share.
So I can tell the differencebetween I know.
You know, and somebody who'slike, hey, I want to have an intellectually
stimulating conversation withyou about this, because I just disagree.
They don't usually say thatbecause they're not great communicators.
And sometimes they're justleading with emotion.
And I think I can sift through.
That, you know, I'm sure you can.
All right, so we have to saythis is what we believe.

(12:44):
Yeah.
Okay, now let's move to the.
To the judgment part.
Yeah, this.
This is a word that scares people.
Again, judgment scares people,I think, and probably for good reason.
Right.
You're taught.
Most of us are taught as kidsby either a parental guardian, a
teacher.
Somebody says, hey, don't judge.
Right?
Don't.
Don't judge people.
It's not polite.
And I think that's right.

(13:04):
We shouldn't judge people.
But goddamn, we should judge ideas.
Like we should judge ideas andactions and intentions.
Like we should.
What I mean by judge, though, is.
I mean it in more of aclinical sense.
I mean it as discernment.
They don't have to sound hateful.
They just have to sound likewhat, you know, what is over, what's

(13:28):
been overlooked, what's beenoverblown, what is not being talked
about enough.
How do I feel about this basedon the unique perspective and experience
that I have?
And that's.
It's really valuable forpeople when someone that is an expert
in their topic, like, you dothis all the time.
It's one of the reasons thatyou've blown up.
Right.
I mean, because you are verydiscerning, and that's really useful

(13:49):
for creatives trying to builda career and a business.
So I think judge away.
I don't know.
I think this episode's gonnahelp a lot of people.
All right, so if you're.
If you're listening and you'relike, whoa, maybe.
Maybe I'm being called outright now.
Maybe you are.

(14:10):
I don't know.
I don't know.
But I think it's kind ofimportant to have common definitions
of shared language that we'renot all saying different.
Same things.
So that we're not saying thesame things, but meaning different
things altogether.
Totally.
Yes.
I'm.
Language is.
I'm obsessed with language.
It's.
Before becoming a magician, Iwas starting a PhD track in Philosophy

(14:32):
of language, contemporaryanalytic metaphysics.
And then, I mean, who knowswhat my life would have been like
if I had spent seven moreyears doing that.
I did have to call home andsay to my parents, who are computer
scientists and PhDs, a wholefamily of intellectuals, you know,
mom, dad, I'm not going to dothe PhD.

(14:53):
I am going to do card tricksfor a living.
I'm going to do.
That one was tough.
It all worked out in the end.
Yeah, it did.
Yeah.
Obsessed with language, though.
Yeah.
Common definitions are important.
So many times we get intoarguments with people not because
we actually disagree, butbecause you're using the same words
to mean different things.
Yes, absolutely.
Okay.
It sounds to me like versus I.

(15:15):
I have to have a point of view.
Yeah.
And then the second one islike, I have to have a point of view
on my point of view.
That's so great.
I love that.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah.
So this scares a lot ofpeople, though.
Yeah, yeah.
They're.
They're unwilling to saythings because they're so afraid
of the blowback, thecriticism, the hate, or whatever

(15:35):
it is they're going to getbecause we're so much extrinsically
motivated.
We're so concerned about thenumber of likes and engagement and
nice commentary and the patson the back virtually.
So we won't say anything.
Okay.
All right.
We have to have a point of view.
Everybody, let's move into predictions.

(15:57):
Yeah.
And this one scares people forone more different reason.
Okay, Right.
And this is.
There's the obvious reasonthat predictions scare people.
So, of course, predictions,you know, we may as well have some
kind of definition.
It's saying what you think islikely to happen.
Right.
Okay.
So I think we all kind ofagree to that.
It's Predictions scare peoplefor the basic reason that they go,
well, what if I'm wrong?
Right?
I'm making this publicly.

(16:18):
What if I'm wrong?
I go, what if you are?
And there's usually nothing.
They, they don't know what tosay after that, right?
And here's, here's the truth.
If I heard somebody say thisonce, I cannot take credit for, for
the phrasing of what I'm aboutto say, but I, I just wish I knew
who said it.
If you are actually the expertyou claim to be, you should be right

(16:38):
more often than you're wrong.
And you should be right to agreater extent than you are wrong
when you're right.
Okay?
So first, if you find yourselfmaking predictions frequently and
you're just always wrong,probably go revisit the topic you
think you're an expert in.
But if you are the expert, andmany people are, they're afraid to
make predictions because whatif I'm wrong?

(16:59):
It's like, okay, so two thingscan happen.
You make the predictionpublicly, you turn out to be right
three months later, threeyears later, beautiful.
You go back and you share it.
You remind people that youcalled this.
And the amount of authorityand trust that you gain from that
is tremendous.
I mean, on my website, as ahuman connection speaker, we have
like, on the homepage of thewebsite, one of my favorite sections,

(17:21):
just like, just likepersonally is in.
It says something.
The copy is something like, in2023, the Surgeon General declared
a loneliness epidemic.
But Brian Miller has beentalking about the human connection
emergency since 2015, right?
It's like, hi, I've beentalking about this forever publicly.
I have 400 blog posts aboutthis, which is why a lot of companies

(17:42):
are willing to listen to me, right?
Even though I have nocredentials in that space at all.
So what happens if you're wrong?
If you're wrong, also shareit, share it.
Remind people that you madethis prediction, you got it wrong.
And then judge yourself, not yourself.
Judge the idea, judge the prediction.

(18:03):
You go, okay, what might Ihave gotten wrong?
What didn't I see coming?
What can we learn from this?
And then make a new predictionbased on the new insights that you
have.
And you should actually getbetter at making predictions the
more often you evaluate yourfailed predictions.
And I think people really likeseeing thinking in action too.

(18:24):
Okay, very good.
So when you make predictions,as an expert, you should be more
right than you're wrong by notjust a little bit, by a good margin,
I would think so.
Right?
And when you're right and youcalled it really early.
Don't be shy to point this out again.
Yeah.
Okay.
This is where I found it real interesting.
When you're like.
And when you're wrong, Ithought you're gonna say, delete

(18:45):
all your posts.
Yeah, delete them all.
Yeah, that's what a lot of other.
People say, but I like that.
So that was kind of like a zigor a zag, you know, when I've heard
so many people say, make lotsof predictions and just delete all
the ones where you're wrong.
If you care so much aboutbeing wrong.
But I like that you say, justown it and say, here's what I learned
from it, and here's where Iread the data incorrectly.

(19:05):
I'm human.
I'm not saying I'm always right.
And I think that is actuallyhow you become more of a thought
leader.
I agree.
I think that we trust peoplemore when they're not Superman.
There's a reason Superman'salways had kind of a.
They've had so many troublesbringing Superman back, but no trouble
bringing Iron Man.
Right.
I mean, Iron Man's flawed.

(19:27):
He's on a journey.
Superman's perfect.
They had to try to make himflawed to make him interesting.
And nobody bought it.
Right.
It's really hard to do.
So.
Yeah.
I think when people can seeyou not only admit that you were
wrong, but not admit it as anapology, say, hey, I got this wrong.
Here's.
To the extent I got it wrong,here's actually something I still

(19:47):
think I'm right about, but wejust haven't seen it play out yet.
Or, here's what would makethis possible.
Like, whatever it is you giveyour evaluation, you judge the idea,
then you make a new prediction.
And I think people reallyappreciate, and they like seeing
an expert's gears turning andseeing, oh, this is how someone at
that level thinks through ideas.

(20:09):
You know, I.
I love it when I.
I bring guests, you know, into.
Into my.
My groups, you know, ofclients sometimes and watching.
We just did it yesterdaywatching an expert on content distribution.
This guy was a Jedi.
He was on a level I thought Iknew understood the world.
No, I knew nothing.
This guy got into stuff.

(20:30):
And we were.
And he was fast and flyingthrough and showing us ideas and
giving out 90 minutes of insanity.
And we.
We were all like this.
And part of it was watchinghim think through and then disagree
with himself and then movepast that idea.
And it was like, oh, this ishow someone who really knows what
they're doing thinks through problems.
I want More of that.

(20:50):
I want to follow this guyeverywhere now.
Okay, so we need to have apoint of view.
We need to have a point ofview on our point of view.
And our point of view is soclear that we're going to tell you
what our point of view isgoing to be in the future.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Something like that.
Yeah, exactly.
Publicly and consistently.
Yes.
To the bigger.

(21:11):
The bigger the audience, the better.
So that it's interesting.
Right, Because I heard youtalk about that.
Of course, you.
More people is typicallybetter, but always with the caveat
of more of the right people.
Right.
Who, who, okay, who are youtrying to make an impact for?
Right.
You know, it's where that termvanity metrics, you know, comes from.

(21:32):
Right.
It's like.
I know.
I'm sure you do too.
I know people personally withmillions of subscribers and no money.
Yeah.
It's just there, there's.
They're not the right people.
I know people with 500 peopleon their email list and they're making
a fortune.
So I think more people can bevery good.
And if you're trying to makean impact and spread ideas through
the world, the more people whohear your ideas, the better.
It was better than my TEDxtalk got three and a half million

(21:53):
views than if it had 300views, of course.
But.
Yes.
Well, it's hard to be a leaderof one.
It's hard to be a leader ofone, but you can be a leader for.
I mean, what is it wementioned, Seth, earlier?
I know you're a set fan, likethe smallest viable audience.
Right.
Find the smallest group ofpeople that you need to do your work.

(22:15):
Not the largest possible, butthe smallest viable and start there
and then let them carry theideas through.
I've always liked that ideabecause it doesn't have to be small.
Maybe the smallest viableaudience is 100,000 people.
Right.
But of a certain kind of person.
The reason why I say that isbecause we have friends who are afraid.
And so they make theirpredictions and their discernment

(22:35):
and they have their beliefstatements, but they only say it
in closed communities.
And yeah, like what?
If you want to influencefolks, if you want to change the
trajectory of the human, wherewe're heading in the arc of humanity,
then you need to share yourideas with as many people as possible.
Even the TED slogan was ideasworth sharing.

(22:58):
And that's the platform, thestage that they promise you.
If your ideas are good, peoplewill share it and they'll see it
and you can actually make adent in the universe.
Totally Tell more people.
And honestly, I actuallythink, you know, I learned this as
an entertainer.
Sometimes your worst audienceis the friends and family.
I wouldn't start there.
They know you too well.
They know.
They remember that dumbassthing you did when you were, you

(23:19):
know, 12 years old and thatstupid thing you said when you were
17.
Whatever.
Yeah.
Those are harder people totake you seriously.
If you're going to startengaging with the world, if you're
going to start smashing ideasinto the world like this, you probably
skip the friends and familyfirst and.
And go to people that youthink could really benefit from it.
Yeah, that's what I would do.

(23:40):
So we'll tie that to yourwhole personal brand thing, because
their frame of your personalbrand has been stuck since, like,
the sixth grade, whereasstrangers have no frame for you.
So they're more likely lessbiased and can hear what you're going
to say.
And that'll be their new frame.
And hopefully you're right.
Yeah.
And that's where you buildthat relationship.
Wonderful.
Yeah.
Now, I want to do a side sidequest with you and just geek out

(24:04):
on Superman for a second.
Okay.
Okay.
Because you're studyingphilosophy, you're a magician, and
now you're a communicationsconnection person, and you help to
coach experts to be speakers.
Okay.
Side side note, Superman.
And you're like, well,Superman has no problems, and that's
why he's so unrelatable, andthat's why they're having a really

(24:25):
hard time building a franchisearound his character.
And you're absolutely right,because the time in which he was
created.
Do you know much about theorigin of Superman, like, why he
was created?
I know enough to use thatexample without fearing what's about
what you're about to say.
But.
But I'm not Superman.
You're like either, so go ahead.

(24:45):
Yeah, yeah.
It's dangerous territory.
Let me just tiptoe on this.
Otherwise, Chris is going toput me on blast, and the judgment
is coming.
All right.
Superman was created as acharacter, as a reaction to what
was happening in Nazi Germany.
They needed a character, astrong, iconic American who could
take on everything.
And so they build into him.
No weaknesses except for one.

(25:07):
It's a minor weakness.
Kryptonite.
Right.
A piece from his home planet,I believe.
Now, the challenge withSuperman is if you're like, how do
I get into Superman?
How do we do this?
Right.
Superman doesn't have aproblem like Brian Miller or Christo
has.
Superman has a problem of aGod, and God has problems, and God
can be relatable.

(25:28):
Because God lets the firehappen and destroy lives and homes
and livelihoods.
God has problems, too, becauseGod can't save everybody, because
every time God interacts, Godchanges the course of human direction.
And so when Superman's storiesare written that way, they become
super fascinating.
It becomes way more philosophical.

(25:49):
Really interesting that yousay that, because I enjoyed man of
Steel, and I was most excitedabout the climax of the movie when
he just snapped Zod's neck.
Yeah.
And I was excited about thatbecause I was like, oh, we have a
flaw.
He hasn't figured.
That's.
That's a real.

(26:10):
That's a.
I haven't figured out who I am yet.
And that was so much moreinteresting than Kryptonite, because
Kryptonite feels like a, youknow, a.
A writer was like, wait a second.
We need to have at least one thing.
Like, let's just make thisglowing green thing the thing.
But no, like.
I agree.
I think that that direction ismuch more interesting.

(26:33):
I.
I think the other thing thatthey explored, which I thought was
successful but didn't fullycapitalize on this, is that he is
an alien.
And we're dealing with issuesof aliens and people who are immigrating
to the United States or wherever.
And there's some issues with nativism.
And so you can see, like, howis this person who's like a really

(26:54):
benevolent person who's tryingto do as much good as possible now,
the people turn on them, andyou can't kill the people.
It's an idea.
It's a sentiment.
So those are more interestingthemes or threads to pull on, which
I.
I wish they.
They went deeper down, but.
Yeah, it is what it is.
I often wish Hollywood wouldgo deeper down the interesting themes,

(27:14):
but there seems to be a hugeresistance to that as of late.
Yeah.
And I think a lot of it isbecause they underestimate the intelligence
of people.
And as moviegoers and fansbecome much more mature, and they're
not just teenage boys who arelike, yeah, punch something.
Shoot something with your eyes.
Right.
They're underestimating theappetite for, like, deeper concepts.

(27:38):
Yes, but.
And, And.
And that.
Oh, so what a great point.
That was one of the earliestlessons I learned in magic from one
of my mentors as a magician.
One of the biggest mistakesthat young magicians or newer magicians,
you have to be young, butnewer magicians make is assuming
that their audience is stupid.
Right.
These people aren't smart.
I can get away with anything.

(27:58):
It's like, no, you can'tassume they're really smart.
The most interesting magiccomes from when you actually assume
the audience is really smart.
Like, and you can, like, youknow, have you ever seen a magician
and you're like, it'sobviously in his other hand.
You know, what is like, howare we still.
Do you know, how are magiciansstill doing that?
No, no.
Assume the audience is smartand that they might think it might

(28:20):
be in your other hand.
Let's come up with a different way.
You'll do more interesting magic.
Oh, I like that take on this.
And we probably should get itback on track.
And experts becoming speakers.
But I think the way to do thatis if that is a good assumption to
make, that the audience issmart and they think is in this hand.
Like, when you do one of thesethings and you go like this, and

(28:41):
then you actually show themthe hand that they think it's in,
and then that'll blow their mind.
What you just described is howI discovered part of our messaging
framework that I now use withspeakers, which is pretty.
I learned almost everything Ilearned as a magician and then applied
it to the world of speakingand communication, um, because it
was such a fascinating world.
Okay, so let's.
What is this framework?
Lay it on us.

(29:01):
Yeah.
So, okay, so we do core messaging.
Core messaging is a practice.
It's not a framework.
It's something like inboundmarketing is a practice, but everybody
who practices it does it differently.
They have their own frameworks.
So core messaging is a practice.
We have a core message triad.
Three things.

(29:22):
The filter, the story hook,and the argument.
These are the three pieces ofmessaging that we build for everybody,
no matter what they're goingto do.
It's our starting point.
Day one.
Doesn't matter if we'rebuilding a keynote speech, web copy,
you know, a presentation,whatever it is prepping you for casual
conversations, for networking events.

(29:43):
Doesn't matter.
Filter, story, hook, argument.
I'll go to the other two in asecond, but I want to talk about
the argument.
The argument is a rationalsequence of thoughts that bring someone
from where they are to whereyou'd like them to go.
Where you're hoping that theywill go.
Right where you're trying toget them to go.
It's the thing that's missingin almost all messaging.

(30:07):
A filter.
So I'll come back to theargument in a second, but let me
spread it out.
The filter is what you mightthink of as a big idea statement.
One sentence, a singlesentence that states what you do,
who it's for, and why it matters.
This I learned from coachingdozens of TED talks.
Because you have to be able tostate your idea in one sentence or
you can't even answer thefirst question on a TEDx application.

(30:29):
Right?
So we use the filter for.
We call it a filter for two reasons.
One, because it keeps you on track.
Once you have a singlesentence where you can explain what
you do, who it's for, and whyit matters, you always know what
you should and shouldn't betalking about.
And so, okay, I'm a humanconnection speaker.

(30:51):
So I work with organizationsand educators to build connected
cultures where everyone feelsheard, understood, and valued.
There's my filter statement.
So if I'm ever think, if I'mever in a conversation with a prospect,
if I'm ever working on akeynote speech, if I'm chatting with
the people who saw me speakearlier at the thing, if I'm about
to say something that does notimmediately and obviously support.

(31:12):
I work with organizations andeducators to build connected cultures
where everyone feels hardunderstood and valued.
I'm off track.
I need to stay on message.
So it's a filter.
And because it's a filter forme, it also keeps the audience on
track, right?
They know where I am and whereI'm going.
They know what the boundaries are.
So that's our filter.
Once we have that, we're goingto go to a story hook.
I'm not going to dive into story.

(31:32):
You talk about story all the time.
We consider the story hooksomething that does two things.
It does understanding and authority.
So you tell a story, a literalstory, not a metaphor, but a literal
story that tells the audience,I understand the problem you have
or the worldview you're in orthe struggle you have or the thing

(31:53):
that you want.
I understand you, and I'mqualified to solve it, or I'm qualified
to help you solve it, or I'mqualified to guide you to solve it,
right?
So a story hook isunderstanding and authority.
And the authority part'sreally important.
We miss it in story all the time.
People tell stories all thetime that do understanding, that

(32:13):
do empathy, right?
And they forget that authoritymatters, too.
If you go to your doctor andyou're like, doc, my shoulder's killing
me.
I can't raise it up.
I'm in all this pain.
I can't even play with my kid anymore.
And the doctor's like, tell meabout it.
My shoulder's been killing me.
I can't play with my kids.
It's the worst.
And you just stare at each other.
And you'd be like, I'd love toget a beer and talk about that sometime,

(32:35):
but in the meantime, can youfind me someone who can fix my shoulder?
Right.
Authority matters.
Okay, so we've got a filter.
We've got story hook to engagepeople emotionally.
What's missing?
What's missing is a rationalargument, a case for why they should
adopt your idea that hits therational part of the brain, not just

(32:56):
the emotional stories.
Everyone says story is.
You know, it's the thing, right?
And it's true.
Story is important.
I've got a storytellingspecialist on my team.
Story matters.
Story engages, it does not persuade.
We need a story, and then weneed an argument.
People need to justifyrationally to themselves.

(33:18):
Why?
To adopt your idea beyondtheir emotional engagement.
So that was just the framingto get us back to the question that
you asked me, which was, whatdid you learn from Magic?
Where you're talking about youput a thing in one hand and then
you show them, oh, it'sactually not in the hand you think
it is.
So where does it come from?
This comes from our argument framework.

(33:39):
So if you're going to build apersuasive argument, I'm going to
give you another framework.
There's a lot of frameworksout loud, so I'm going to give you
another framework.
The argument is premise,status quo, paradigm shift, success,
action.
Just a few months, we're goingto hit our 400th episode of this

(34:01):
podcast, and before we getthere, we want to take a moment to
really listen to you, ourloyal listeners.
If you're open to chattingwith my producer, Rich Cardona, or
someone on his team, we'd loveto hear from you.
Just fill out the short formin the show notes.
It takes less than 20 seconds.
So this idea from Magic thatyou asked me about is the status

(34:23):
quo.
The status quo is how dopeople typically try to solve the
problem that you're talking about?
And why doesn't it work?
Some people do this instinctively.
Almost everybody skips it.
Like, very few people think totalk about this.
What you see in mostcommunication, in most keynote speeches,

(34:44):
in most TED talks, you seepeople, if they even start with a
premise, and they hardly everdo, they start with a premise, which
is something like, what doesthe audience want?
What are they struggling with?
What do they fear?
What do they believe?
It's something they alreadyhold true.
So premise, it's a foundation, right?
You go, hey, we all want tofeel connected to others, and everybody

(35:06):
nods.
Great.
That means we've got apremise, we have foundation.
We can start this conversation.
What happens Is after that,almost everybody skips to the paradigm
shift.
They skip to their solution.
They go, and here's how we'regoing to do it.
And what happens is youpresent this unique, special thing
that you do, Whatever yourthing is, your uniqueness, your solution,

(35:28):
you.
And people sit there with allthese objections in their head.
They're like, that sounds hard.
It's going to take a long time.
I already think I know how tosolve that.
I've already heard about otherways that sound easier, all that
stuff.
They can't listen to you.
They can't hear you.
The status quo is when yousystematically talk them through

(35:49):
each of the ways that youmight try to solve it, or we have
historically tried to solveit, or people tend to try to solve
this problem and why theydon't work or don't work as well
as they could.
You have to dismantle them.
What's this got to do with magic?
This is how I learned it as a magician.
If I ask you to choose a card,I go like this.

(36:10):
You choose a card.
You look at it.
It's the seven of diamonds,whatever it is.
And then if you put it back inthe deck and I pull the seven of
diamonds out of my pocket, youmight go, ah.
But then immediately yourbrain goes, I wonder if there's a
second seven of diamonds.
Maybe he's got one in the deckand one in his pocket.
So the magic's gone.
There's no magic.
Okay?
So that's not what magicians do.

(36:31):
You, here, go.
Here, go choose a card.
They pull it out, seven diamonds.
I hand you a sharpie marker.
So you draw your name on it.
You draw your name on it.
It goes in to the deck.
I pull it out of my pocket,you go, ah.
And then you go, wait, no,maybe he's got a second one.
No, he can't have a second onebecause it's got a sharpie mark.
I wrote my name on it.
But then they go, but I wonderif he held it in his hand secretly.

(36:52):
Still no magic.
Because they've got a way tothink through it.
What do we really do?
Choose a card.
Seven diamonds.
Here's a marker.
Write your name on it.
It goes back in.
You hand them the cards.
They shuffle, you show themyour hands are empty, you reach into
your pocket, you pull it out.
So what magicians have learnedto do instinctively is before I get
to the climax, I have toremove, one by one, all of the other
possible ways you could thinkit happens.

(37:13):
So you get to the moment ofmagic, and the audience goes, ah,
well, it could be.
No, because he could have been.
No, because he.
No, it could have been.
And when they get through allof them, their brain explodes, they
have no options left.
And that's when magic happens.
Same approach for communicators.
If you remove all the possibleways someone could solve this problem

(37:34):
and show them that they don'twork, they're in worse shape than
the beginning of the speechbecause they still have the problem
and now they have no ways tosolve it.
They have to listen to yoursolution, which is then when you
can go into a paradigm shift,that's excellent.
So when magicians show you allthe ways that you think it can be

(37:58):
done, it just makes the revealeven more powerful because I guess
in sales terminology you'rehandling all the objections.
Yeah, upfront.
And the better you are beingmagician, the better you are going
to demonstrate how it can't be.
Right.
And then the paradigm shift isthe mind blown.

(38:18):
Right.
So I say paradigm shift andnot, you heard me say solution a
bunch just for the sake ofease of conversation.
But I don't like the word solution.
Solution implies tactics.
Typically a lot of people,when they're especially speakers,
I work with a lot of keynotespeakers, they want to offer solutions,
but solutions tend to be dothis thing, this really specific
thing, and tactics don't.

(38:40):
Tactics tend to be industryspecific, for one thing, and they
tend to be like medium specific.
Like a tactic only works onLinkedIn and it only works today
until they change the algorithm.
But a paradigm shift is adifferent way of seeing the problem,
a different way of thinkingthrough the problem.
Paradigm shifts tend to carryacross industries.
It doesn't matter if I'mtalking to healthcare professionals

(39:00):
or accountants.
The same paradigm shift willhelp them in their world think through
their problem differently.
Like help them think throughtheir problem differently, but the
same as another industry couldthink through it.
And I usually say if you're a,if you're looking to be a paid professional
speaker, the highest, thebiggest paychecks go to the largest

(39:21):
paradigm shifts.
Basically that once you'redealing with getting paid as a speaker,
the folks who can afford tobring you in at those kind of fees,
the 10, 15, 20,000 or abovefees that non celebrity paid professional
speakers are getting, theexecutives and folks bringing you
in, they're not looking for tactics.
Tactics are easy to come by.
They're looking for, can I getmy entire organization to think differently?

(39:43):
Because that's tremendouslyvaluable to them as.
We understand the wordparadigm and a paradigm shift.
It's really big.
Humanity used to do it thisway and they no longer do it that
way.
It's something we don't go backwards.
Like a paradigm shift is, Ithink the invention of the Internet.
A paradigm shift is theinvention of AI, probably as some
people have described.

(40:04):
The greatest human invention ever.
Yep.
Right.
The splitting of the atom.
That's a big one.
Yeah.
So those are like, we cannotgo backwards.
So a solution could just be areally small little thing that you've
done and here you now use this thing.
Yeah.
And you should give peoplesolutions too.
But it's like the solutionshould fit within the paradigm shift.

(40:24):
It's like, first let me getyou to think differently about this,
then we can talk about ways totackle it today.
But that might change by next week.
Let's plug this into probablyone of the most viewed, if not the
top viewed TED Talk ever,Simon Sinek.
Start with why I believe thebig idea that he's saying in this
one talk, the golden circle.
Or start with why is he goes,people don't buy what you do, they

(40:46):
buy why you do it.
Is that the big idea?
The filter?
Yeah.
I mean, it's not how I wouldactually put it on the page, but
yes, it's essentially the big idea.
The framework we use for thefilter is something like two actions
so that impact.
That if we want to achievethis impact, we must do this action.

(41:08):
Right.
So two actions so that impact.
The action is, what do you do?
What do you want people to do,Think or rethink as a result of your
talk?
Or if you're thinking aboutyour business and you're not thinking
about it as a speaker, theaction is what does your business
do?
Right.
What do you do?
Not at the granular, but atthe 20,000 foot level.
So Simon's might be to startwith why?

(41:36):
So that our ideas carrythrough the marketplace.
Right.
Something like that.
I see that's not a super sexyway to put it on the page, but something
like that.
Yeah.
But then we understand exactlywhat we're saying at that point then.
Right.
And so does everybody else.
And instantly.
And then I see the argument,the rational sequence of thoughts
that's easy to follow, that hestarts to talk about Martin Luther

(41:58):
King Jr.
The Wright brothers, Apple.
So we understand like whatthey're doing and how they're doing
things differently.
So it's building up this thinglike how they challenge the status
quo.
There's a paradigm shift andthen they have success.
What I didn't get from histalk was his literal story how he
Understands a problem and howhe's in authority.

(42:19):
Yeah.
So he.
He snuck it in.
So he snuck it in there.
And my guess is as soon as Isay it, you'll remember it.
But it's not the mostmemorable part of.
Is it right at the beginning,he just slips it in and.
Yeah, it's right at the beginning.
He basically indicates.
And I don't remember exactlyhow far.
And it's been a long timesince I've actually watched the.
By the way, if you haven'twatched the original, start with
why Talk?
First of all, that's not eventhe title of it.

(42:40):
And.
And it was How Great LeadersInspire action.
His story Hook, is something like.
He was in marketing, he was inadvertising, he was getting burnt
out of the corporate world.
He.
But he had this inkling, hestarted sharing it with his friends,
bringing people over to his,you know, just to his apartment and
just giving them presentationsabout the Golden Circle, you know,
in his living room.

(43:00):
That was his.
And then he started seeing itwork and people started getting the
idea.
And that was his story Hook.
It was the.
How do I understand this idea?
I was in the world ofmarketing, advertising.
I saw this problem, I startedto feel this burnout thing and why
am I qualified to solve it?
I developed this system, Istarted showing it to people.
They got it, they used it withtheir companies.

(43:21):
I started getting invited tospeak about it.
That's a story hook.
Now I'm going to have torewatch because I've watched it many
times.
I believe I watched theoriginal and they changed titles
because as it got bigger, they changed.
It used to be called theGolden Circle or something weird
that people are like, eh,nobody's searching for that.
Nobody understands that.
And I think it was TedX Portland.
It wasn't Ted the Main.
No, it was a tiny little TedXtalk in a half empty room.

(43:45):
I mean it was okay.
Yeah, it was wild.
If you go watch that.
So I haven't seen that one,but the one that has the gazillion
million views, it's stillpretty crap in its production.
I mean they're not known asthe best video production team on
earth.
Right, but you're saying like,despite flawed production and bad
audio and video quality, ifthe idea is really good and you,

(44:05):
you use frameworks that peoplehave used throughout history, you
can change whole groups ofpeople, you can change how humanity
perceives a problem.
Francisco, my kind of leadstory consultant, he.
He says a story is a real life example.
That makes a point.
He's like, don't get too crazyabout stories, people get too nuts,

(44:26):
they get two in their headsabout story.
It's just a real life examplethat makes a point.
So there's different types ofstories you need.
You might need a value story,a story that, that through the course
of telling them, essentially acase study.
Why your idea, your topic,your product, your service is valuable,
right?
There's mentor stories.
Why am I the person to guideyou along this journey?

(44:46):
There's lots of differenttypes of stories.
We call this the story hookbecause every communicator, thought
leader, expert, anybodyspeaking professionally needs one
story that they can tell overand over and over again.
Anytime somebody asks thatanswers the question, why am I listening
to you?

(45:07):
It's the why you question, okay?
The filter answers the question.
How is this going to berelevant to me?
Right?
The story hook answer is,okay, this idea is relevant to me,
but why shouldn't I just goGoogle this?
Chatgpt it, look up the bestexpert on YouTube why listen to you
about it?
Story hook tells them yourunique perspective and why you're
qualified.

(45:27):
And then the argument answersthe question, so how do I do it if
I want to do it?
So, yeah, the way that I buildkind of communication frameworks,
and in particularly speakingframeworks is every part of your
speech or your communicationis an answer to a question the audience
is asking.
And we have to answer thosequestions in the order they think
the questions to themselves.

(45:48):
I say a lot, the right ideasin the wrong order are the wrong
ideas.
It's one of the most commonproblems with speaking is all the
right ideas were in thatpresentation, but they were in all
the wrong order.
And so nobody got it.
I started to see the overlapbetween a bunch of different things
in terms of conceptualadvertising, storytelling and magic

(46:11):
and joke telling.
And it all came down to onething, misdirection.
So the magician wants you tolook at something because the real
trick is happening somewhere else.
And their ability to hide andmisdirect you is the power of magic.
The same thing about the comedian.
The comedian sets up thepremise of the joke, but if you can

(46:33):
see it coming, the punchline,then it's not very good.
And Dave Chappelle is probablythe master magician of story of joke
telling.
Because I don't know wherethis joke is going.
Then he lands and like, oh, myGod, in a million years I didn't
know.
But when you land it likethat, I see he's so good that he
tells you the punchline upfront, tells the story, and then

(46:54):
he lands the Punchline.
And by the time he's ready toland the punchline, you forgot what
it was because he's so good at it.
I'm curious about yourthoughts on misdirection and its
role in storytelling.
I'm so thrilled you asked methis question, because I so rarely
get to flex the philosophy ofmagic kind of muscle anymore, because
I'm not.
I used to just spend my wholelife with magicians, and it was just

(47:15):
nothing but these kind of conversations.
So everything you said I 100%agree with, except for the terminology,
which I think gets people very confused.
All right.
And misdirection is just a bad.
It's.
It's the word that magicians use.
It's a bad word.
It's a word that means to lookaway from something.

(47:40):
Right.
I want to distract you from something.
Mm.
The problem with that is if Iwant to hide one of these guitars
that's on the wall here, Ikind of have two options.
Like, if you and I were in theroom together, I can stand in front
of it like this and talk toyou the whole time, hoping that you
don't see it.
But that's super suspicious.

(48:00):
At some point, you're gonna belike, what the hell is he hiding?
Right?
Because I'm trying to get younot to look at something.
It's going to bring yourattention to that thing.
Or I could just stand overthere on the other side of the room.
You would be standing herewith your back.
You would never see theguitars, even though they're in full
view.
If I'm having an interestingconversation with you, you've got
something to look at in that direction.

(48:21):
You never.
I don't need to hide the guitars.
You can't see them.
You'll never will.
So direction is the rightterm, not misdirection.
What magicians.
If I'm trying to hide thatsomething's not in this hand, I'm
just going to.
My energy is all on the handI'm hiding, right?
I'm like, don't look at this hand.
Don't look at this hand.
It's like, what do.
You're going to look at the hand?
It's like, don't think of apink elephant.
Oops, there it is.

(48:42):
Right?
So instead, what I want to dois not hide that something's in this
hand.
I want to show you somethingmuch more interesting in this hand.
I think that's the same thingthat storytellers do, and that's
the same thing that comedians do.
They don't hide the punchlinethey tell you a setup that is so
interesting, you don't evennotice the twist that's coming.

(49:03):
If they actually started.
If it's storytellers, classic mistake.
The setup has to be interesting.
A lot of times people make thesetup is boring because they think,
oh, these are just the details.
I just got to get the detailsso that they understand.
It's like, no, no, no.
Make the context, the setupreally engaging, really interesting.

(49:23):
That matters because thenwhatever the transformation is.
So story.
We would say something likecontext, transformation, result.
Right?
The transformation, the pow isgoing to come out of nowhere.
And it's because you were soengaged in the context.
So I would just say that theword is direction.
You want to lead people tolook at something, to pay attention

(49:46):
to something that's reallyinteresting, not try to get them
to not notice something thatyou don't want them to see.
Well, I'm not going to have amagician on the show and argue with
the magician about the term misdirection.
I just see a little differently.
Yeah, but, you know, it's theart of misdirection.
And so I think the amateur,like, don't look at this.

(50:06):
Yeah.
The ones that we care aboutare like, I didn't even know I was
not supposed to look at that because.
Exactly.
I'm making this really interesting.
And I think that's.
That's the point, though, isthat the.
The masters of it are doingsomething so interesting that it
would never even occur to youto look at the place they don't want
you to look at.
They're not focused on theplace they don't want you to look
at.
One last geek out on.
On magic here.

(50:28):
We've seen magicians, I guess,reveal how certain tricks are done,
and it's fascinating to watchthat too, because they'll show you
the trick.
And they're like, the maskedmagician will like, here's how it's
done.
And I guess it's like it wentagainst all the magician's code of
conduct.
You're not supposed to revealthe trick.
It breaks the illusion.
And now those magicians can'tdo those tricks anymore because people

(50:49):
are going to say, no, I knowhow it's done.
Yeah.
The ones that they haven'treally shown are how mentalism works.
Now, I know it's not real, butthey're doing a freaking pretty good
job of making it look real.
And I'll tell you one, and youtell me how it's done.
If you can break the code.
Is that all right?
Listen, I'm not going toreveal something that would give

(51:10):
any professional magicianstrouble mentalists trouble with their
act.
But I have no issue, I think Ihave no issue with revealing magic
tricks.
I think it's.
I think people mostly.
It's very hard to appreciatesomething if you don't understand
anything about it.
It's like we like the behindthe scenes in movies for a reason.
So go ahead.
Okay.
So I set it up and I thinkit's an evolution of different kinds

(51:31):
of magic tricks.
And they're all, they're allmagic and illusion.
But the way they make youthink about it is like I can read
your mind or I can manipulateyou with verbal cues and then you're
going to do exactly what I want.
At least I think that's the premise.
So the trick is this thing.
Think of a card and a suit andyou think of something, right?
And you say it out loud.
What is it?
We'll use your same example,seven of diamonds.

(51:53):
And then they're like, okay.
And then they open up the deckand they pick any card, but don't
look at it yet.
And they draw the card.
Okay.
And then they should put inyour pocket or whatever.
And then they put the otherdeck away or whatever.
They're holding the deck.
And then they're like, okay,go ahead and reveal to everyone what
your card is.
And they hold it out and it'sa seven of diamonds, but it's handwritten
with a marker.

(52:13):
And while the deck is still inplain view, it's never disappeared.
They're like, okay, would youlike to see another card?
Pick another card.
And it's a white card.
It's a white card and thewhole deck is white.
So not only did they know thecard you're going to pick, they hand
wrote it with a Sharpie andthey put it in the one place where
you're going to pick it.
And then they show you thatall the other cards are blank.
And I'm like, what the Fhappened here?

(52:36):
That's a good trick.
That's a really good trick.
What can you share with us howthese things are done?
So what I can share with youis it's precisely all the things
that we already talked about,which is one, just your memory of
the trick, the way youdescribed it, tells me a lot about

(52:57):
what the magician did.
Okay.
Because the way you describedit is it was in full view the whole
time.
As soon as you said that, I'mlike, there's no way that's true.
And it's funny becausemagicians Learn the difference between
impossible and actually impossible.
Right.
And so no way to do that.
The deck was in full view,which means whenever the deck got
switched out, which, you know,intellectually, that had to have

(53:18):
happened at some point.
Right.
You didn't even notice thatand would have never occurred to
you because you were lookingat something much more interesting.
You were engaged in somethingfully at that moment.
Right.
But also you are havingtrouble processing even how it might
have been done, which meansany of the potential solutions were
things that magician must haveremoved along the way.

(53:39):
Right, right, right.
And so what I can tell youabout how the trick is done, I mean,
I can personally think of 10different ways to do that right now.
But can you think of any waythat you would do that?
Like, if you had to do that,you had to create that trick knowing
nothing about magic, whatwould you do?
That is how.
Now, you're not say that outloud right now, but that is what
I would say.

(53:59):
I like this.
So I'm not a magician, so Iaccidentally guess it.
It would just be like a random guess.
Okay.
So my guess is that whole deckwas handwritten for all the suits
and things.
And somehow they had to figure out.
And the magicians can do this.
When you pick the card,somehow they slip the card underneath
it.
So the card you grab isn't theone that you think you grabbed, and

(54:20):
it's the one that you said.
So that's the biggest part ofthe trick.
Somewhere along the way, theyswap out that full deck for a blank
deck, and then the trickbecomes even crazier.
And now we forget that evenabout the.
How did you make me pick thatone card and say that card that you
wanted me to say?
Thoughts on that, Brian?
My thoughts are that would beone way to do it.

(54:41):
And what I usually say topeople is, does that change what
you just did?
Does that change yourexperience of the trick?
I don't know.
Not at all.
So that means you were in thehands of a master magician.
So for me, a really masterfulmagician, just like a storyteller,
a filmmaker, anything else isif you know how it works or you think,

(55:03):
oh, I kind of get it, but youstill enjoyed it.
That was art, right?
Yeah.
That's the difference betweena trick and art.
So here's the thing.
I think magicians feared thatwe're going to reveal how these tricks
are done.
So there was a code, and youdon't reveal the tricks, and then
somebody decided they're goingto do it under a mask.
And then all kinds of Peopleare doing it and then they realize

(55:24):
people still want to see magic.
I revealed the secret to amagic trick in my TEDx talk that
went viral.
I revealed the secret andmagicians were so upset.
They were so upset.
And I'm like, I guarantee youof the three and a half million people
that watch that video, any nonmagician, if I ask them, do you remember
how the trick works?
They don't.
They remember the storysurrounding the trick.

(55:46):
They'll tell me all about, ohmy God, that story about the blind
guy in the restaurant and howyou created magic for him.
That was so meaningful to theblah, blah, blah, blah.
No one in 10 years since thattalk at YouTube has ever said to
me, kind of ruined the trickfor me though that has never happened.
Yeah.
Let me ask you this questionwhile we're on the topic of this
viral TED Talk that you did.
What do you think you did thatconnected with the audiences that

(56:10):
led to so many views?
That's a great question.
I've had 10 years to thinkabout that because it's like coming
up on the 10 year anniversaryof that.
It's kind of crazy now.
You know, the little talkchanged my life.
So mostly luck.
And I'm going to qualify that.
Which is not to say I didn'twork my ass off.
I didn't have the right to be there.
It wasn't a great talk, allthat stuff.

(56:30):
Pre pandemic, I was halfwaythrough writing my next book which
was going to be a book aboutthe role of luck and success.
Cause I really get tired ofreally, really successful people
ignoring the role of luck andjust inventing heroes, Journeys in
reverse and kind of things.
So it was mostly luck.
But here's where the luck happened.
1.
The title of the talk wasStroke of Genius.

(56:54):
And it was my wife who came upwith the title.
The work that we do.
We are known now for helpingour clients create phenomenal titles
for their talks.
We have a process.
I was just a magician.
I was not a speaker.
I was a full time magician.
When I got invited to thisTEDx talk, having no dreams of being
a speaker, hoping that my TEDxtalk would get 5,000 views and we
can increase my corporateevent rate from 1500 to $2000.

(57:15):
That was the dream.
It was a dream.
Hey, I was, I was supportingme and I was putting my wife through
her masters and supportingboth of us doing card tricks for
a living.
I was very happy and much lessstressed than I am now running a
consulting firm.
I don't know what happened.
I should go Back.
But.
So the title was how toMagically Connect with Anyone.

(57:37):
I didn't come up with it.
I went through 25 differentvariations of like magical making
connections, all those words.
I couldn't get it.
And I was like tearing my hair out.
And my then fiance at thetime, she said, give me the, Give
me your legal pad.
You know, I had this yellowlegal pad.
She goes, leave me alone foran hour.

(57:58):
And she just like disappeared.
And she came back in a littlebit with how to Magically Connect
with Anyone.
And I was like, that's it.
So that title, if you now goto headline analyzers and stuff like
that today, like the AIsystems, it's like gangbusters.
So that was luck that my wifecame up with that.
And it happened to be thisphenomenal title, luck of the YouTube.

(58:21):
Thumbnail.
Ted doesn't let TEDx speakerschoose the thumbnail.
TED doesn't even choose thembecause there's too many TEDx talks.
There's 220,000 of them on theTEDx YouTube channel now.
So it's just whatever.
At that time, it was justwhatever YouTube decided was the
thumbnail.
And the thumbnail Chrishappened to be me holding two pieces

(58:45):
of rope like this because Iwas in the middle of one of the only
magic tricks I did in thewhole talk with the title how to
Magically Connect with Anyone.
Now who is this fedora wearinggoofball in a suit holding ropes
talking about connections?
It's just weird.
This, the, the, the weirdfactor, the what is this?
The curiosity factor is, is enough.
And it was 2015.

(59:06):
The luck of it happening to bethat year.
What was happening that year?
We remember it was rightbefore 2016 in the US this was a
big year.
This was the year thateverything started becoming more
divisive, more polarized, more disconnected.
It was the year leading up toa big election that changed the course
of American history.
We're all feeling it againright now.
So it was talking about makingconnections in a world that was rapidly

(59:29):
becoming more divisive, more politicized.
I was wearing a fedora forsome reason and a suit for some reason
with two ropes.
And the title of the talk washow to Magically Connect with Anyone.
Now what is that all by you?
That buys you the click.
So the luck, all that boughtme the clicks.
The work was.
It was a great talk and Iworked really hard for many months

(59:53):
and called in a mentor of minewho was a professor, a renowned professor
at Yale who had helped mewrite the talk.
And I didn't know how to writea talk.
I wasn't a speaker then.
So how did it get 3 1/2million views?
Lot of luck.
A good talk, and then down tothe practical stuff.
I've had people ask me, howdid you make it go viral?

(01:00:14):
You'll make videos.
Go viral.
You'll make.
I didn't make it.
I sent it to everyone I'd metin my entire life.
In the first two hours.
When it hit YouTube got 800views and it stalled.
You know, that was it.
It was dead for two weeks, I thought.
Climbed like a thousand viewsand that was it.
Somebody somewhere saw it andput it in the Reddit, the subreddit,

(01:00:35):
for communication skills, andit went to a hundred thousand views
in a month, a million views insix months, 2 million in the first
year, and then climbed tothree or whatever, three and a half
million after that.
So lot of luck.
But it was a good talk.
So it earned the luck, I guess.
Well, thanks for breaking that down.
I'd like to think luck plays arole in things and timing.

(01:00:59):
So luck in timing.
You're unlucky with your magicbecause you said it was uncool.
And, you know, 2015, YouTube'sjust becoming a thing.
Yeah.
It's starting to catchattention of non.
Like, not kids and amateurs.
It's starting to hit a moreprofessional audience.
Also, in 2015, Ted meant a lotmore than it does today.

(01:01:23):
Correct.
When it's 200,000 talks laterto TED.
Unfortunately, the TED branddoesn't care much weight and distribution
of content.
Good content comes for free.
Now, you don't need TED toanoint you.
You just make a really goodvideo and you follow best practices
and you might have some ofthat luck.
I don't think you're thatlucky that your fiance is like, let

(01:01:44):
me think on this and I'll tellyou why.
Okay?
Because you had this march tofind a really smart woman and you
had the.
You didn't have a big enoughego to say, like, I'm not going to
ask for help.
And you grinded on this.
And so you gave her somethingto work with.
And then with fresh eyes andwithout the attachment of what you're

(01:02:05):
going through, she can look atit and it's like, yeah, it probably
should be this.
Not saying, like, we knowwe're like geniuses.
We know how to do titles, butit's simple, it's elegant, and it's
clear.
No, I mean, totally.
And my wife, and her name'sLindsay, she was paramount in this
talk.
Not just the title.
What was that was anotherquote, unquote lucky thing.

(01:02:26):
I mean, she at the time was inher master's.
She was in her final year ofher master's to become a licensed
marriage and family therapist, which.
Which she's been doing ever since.
And so she was activelystudying, taking classes all day
studying psychology, studying therapy.
And I was going to talk aboutmy intuitions from being a magician

(01:02:48):
about human connection, but Ididn't have the words or the terminology
or the history, any of theacademia to support it.
It was just what I learned.
And so I started taking her todinner once a week or whatever it
was, for months, every otherweek, whatever it was, for like months
leading up to the TEDx.
And I would.
We would talk over dinner andI would tell her about what I was

(01:03:08):
trying to say and she wouldtell me what the terms were and she
would go, oh, that's actuallycalled perspective taking.
It's perspective taking.
Well, now I'm 10 years, I'mfamous for that.
Like, I.
That's what I talk about.
People think I'm an expert inperspective taking.
It's like, I wasn't.
I just had this intuition.
She said, there's a term for this.
And so I bought all the booksabout it because she said that.
So she was paramount.

(01:03:30):
So the luck of having a fiancethat happened to be studying the
psychology side of what Iwanted to talk about was nuts.
But then the work was doingthe conversations and then following
up and reading the book.
So there's always.
It's like, it's.
Oh, it's like talent, yes.
Work, yes.
Luck, also.
Yes.
It's like, just don't forgetto talk about luck.

(01:03:52):
That's how I feel when Ilisten to really successful people.
Yeah.
I think from a person whomakes a lot of YouTube content, who
I try to engineer some of thatluck, is there three things that
you needed to do really wellfor that to happen?
And I think you were pointed out.
So let me share with ouraudience really quickly.
Number one is you have to makesomething that's easy to find.
The title and the thumbnailare paramount to that.
You call it something else andthen no one finds it.

(01:04:14):
So it doesn't matter how goodyour video is, it's not going to
be seen by anybody.
Number two is once they findit, then you have to deliver on the
goods.
Maybe this is the big idea,the story, hook and argument all
in play in a YouTube story here.
So you have to deliver the goods.
The last component of it is itneeds to be pushed out to a platform
where other people can find itmore easily.

(01:04:35):
So this is where you're likesome stranger somewhere says, hey,
this is a masterclass oncommunication or human connection.
Check it out.
And whenever videos go offlike that, from, from a zero audience
to something like that, it'sbecause someone else has intervened.
Because you did the first twoparts, you made it easy to find and
you delivered on the goods.
And we'd like to live in this idea.

(01:04:55):
I think of meritocracy, wherethe best things will.
The cream rises to the top,but you have to help it a little
bit.
You don't just say, here, Ihope it works out.
There's man, I can't agreewith that more.
There's a slide in mypresentations I do on message clarity,
which is the one slide thateverybody takes their phones out
and takes a photo of.

(01:05:15):
And it's the dumbest, simplest slide.
It says the best ideas don't win.
The clearest ideas win.
And I just believe thatthrough and through more every single
day, as the world becomesnoisier and less trusting.
Clearest ideas win.
You have to say the thing.

(01:05:36):
Just say the thing.
I think the meta conversationhere is that you've done a really
good job of telling a story ofwhy you, you shared real life examples
of what you did, and you madeit in a way that we, we can understand
that you've gone through thisand then you proven your authority
here.

(01:05:57):
So this is one of those, likeinception things where we go inside
the circle and we're like, ohmy God.
So I think it's like theseinception things, like we're inside
the dream of the dream and wejust kind of pull back.
It's like, here's a personwho's demonstrating the concepts
while telling you the concept.
It's like you're telling uswhat the trick's going to be and
we're still engaged.
And you have proven to me thatyou've spent enough time thinking

(01:06:20):
about this, working on this,that you know what you're talking
about.
Okay, so let's do a reallyquick recap and then let's add any
final thoughts on this beforewe wrap up.
Okay.
You, what you do, Brian, isyou help people who are experts become
speakers, and there's adifference there.
And hopefully to then tobecome a thought leader.
You've.
You drawn the distinctionbetween a personal brand because

(01:06:41):
everyone has one.
I agree.
Not everyone has a good one.
Not everyone has a real one.
Yeah, but they do have one.
We have an impression of you,their expectations and promises.
We get that, but you'retalking about doing something different,
like doing three things.
An assertion, judgments, andpredictions to do this publicly and

(01:07:02):
consistently.
And the way that you helppeople is using this triangular framework,
your core messaging thing,that you have to have a filter, a
story hook, and an argument.
If you follow those things,you're going to do really well.
Now, those words meandifferent things, so be sure you
listen, of course, to theentire podcast again, now that you're

(01:07:23):
at the end, because sometimespeople phase in and out of attention,
and you probably need to goback because how you explained is
different than how I initially interpreted.
And this is very important.
What else do they do they needto know before we direct them on
how to find out more about you?
I mean, I.
I think the big thing to knowin 2025, moving forward, whenever

(01:07:44):
you're listening to this is wenow live in a world of low trust
and high noise, right?
There's never been more peopleand more things shouting at us, trying
to get our attention.
And the average person hasnever been less trusting of anybody.
People do gooders, nonprofitorganizers, you know, politicians,

(01:08:06):
educators, healthcare professionals.
Doesn't matter.
Low trust, high noise.
If you have an idea that youcare about, that you're trying to
put into the world, you needpeople to share it.
You need people to spread it,which means first they need to understand
it.
If people do not know how totalk about what you do, they will
not talk about what you do.
They don't have the mental capacity.

(01:08:26):
So I'll kind of leave you witha metaphor, which is the marble elephant.
There is an old engineering riddle.
How do you carve an elephantout of a block of marble?
The answer is you chip awayeverything that doesn't look like
an elephant.
Sounds simple, but almostnobody knows how to do this.

(01:08:47):
So what happens to us in theidea space is, I have an idea, and
I know how beautiful it is.
I know what it looks like, Iknow who it's for and how it would
benefit them.
I have a marble elephant in myhead, but I'm holding a block of
marble, and I hand it to somebody.
I go, look, an elephant, andthey don't see the elephant.
They're holding a block of marble.
They have no idea why you'vehanded it to them, what it's for,

(01:09:09):
what they're supposed to dowith it.
It's heavy, it's cumbersome,it's sharp.
What do they do?
They either hand it back, theyput it down, they throw it out, and
then they walk away.
And they walk until they Findsomebody who hands them a marble
elephant because that's whatthey're looking for and they need
to see it immediately andobviously as what they're looking
for.
And that is what we need to dowith our ideas.

(01:09:30):
It's been a real pleasuretalking to you, Brian.
I'm fascinated.
I've learned a couple newthings and I can't wait to apply
this to my own talks and tryto be that thought leader that I
aspire to become.
Now, how do people work with you?
Do you do, do you have like asignature keynote that you do on
stage?
And I know there's a programor something that you do on a consultative
basis.
How do people work with you?

(01:09:50):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
So I do give keynotepresentations on message, clarity,
change, communication, allthese frameworks.
I do workshops for teams, leadership.
Break them down.
You can go to our site,clarityupconsulting.com clarityupconsulting.com
so that's the speaking side of things.
If you're interested in youyourself becoming a top communicator,

(01:10:13):
especially as a keynote speaker.
Actually right now, halfwaythrough the actual next book, which
will hopefully be out latethis year, maybe early 2026, it is
my framework for how to designa world class keynote that gets you
booked, rebooked and referred.
So you had Robert Fitzpatrickon once and he wrote the book on
workshops.
Yeah, I'm writing that onkeynotes because that book is phenomenal

(01:10:35):
for people needing to give aworkshop and that book does not exist
for keynote speakers.
So I obviously need to finishthis now before this podcast comes
out, so before someone elsewrites it and gets in there before
I do.
But here's where you can go.
You can go tokeynotedesignbook.com keynotedesignbook.com
it's built on score app.
You can toss your name andemail and answer a couple questions

(01:10:57):
and just basically say I'minterested in this book when it comes
out.
That's the easiest way intoour world right now.
When is the targeted completion?
Publishing shift date likely?
December, January, you know,2020, very late, 2025, early 2026,
depending on how fast I thinkit's going.
So no, you're, you're going tohave this out way before that.

(01:11:19):
I was going to ask you, youwant me stalling this?
I just have this.
Put it out, put it out.
No, don't stall.
But you can just like that.
Come on.
But, but I, I have a, youknow, I have a membership community,
I'm on LinkedIn, I have allthose things.
So if you, if you go there,toss your emails in and you click
the box that says yes, I'dlike to hear about some of your programs.
We'll say, hey, here's our community.

(01:11:40):
Here's my LinkedIn, all that jazz.
So you can stay in touch.
I publish constantly aboutthis stuff.
Before we get out of here, Iwant to thank you once again and
you shared a very personalstory about, like our connection
point.
And I'd like to justacknowledge this person who kind
of connected us.
Do you want to say somethingto them?
They may or may not be able tohear this, but I'd like to send that

(01:12:02):
energy into the world.
Yeah, I appreciate that.
So my lifelong best friend,Adam Krutinger, if you know him on
the Internet and some of yourlisteners might, because he's a maker,
he's in the creator world.
He runs the YouTube channelPuppet Nerd.
He's a world renowned puppet builder.
We've been best friends since childhood.
He introduced me to the Futurepodcast and Chris's work probably,

(01:12:24):
I mean, really like a decadeago, like probably early days of
the YouTube stuff and everything.
And we've always discussed itas one of our regular podcasts and
talked about the episodes.
A couple years ago, Adamunfortunately found out that he has
stage four brain cancer.
They did all the surgeries,did all the treatments, and we're
kind of out of things now.
It's.
We don't know what's going on,but there's no more treatments being

(01:12:48):
done.
So when Chris invited me onthe show a couple of months ago,
I was able to go tell Adamthat I was going to be able to go
on the Future and talk to Chris.
And he was just so excited forme and we had this moment and it
was beautiful.
And so that was a great gift Iwas able to give to him.
It was a great gift to me.

(01:13:09):
So I deeply appreciate that.
And if you're interested inpuppets or makers, Adam's got books
out and he's got puppet, youknow, his Puppet Nerd channel.
All that stuff is unbelievable.
You'll never see anything like it.
That's such a touching storyand it's just a reminder to me and
all those people out there.
Maybe you being a thoughtleader isn't about being successful

(01:13:32):
or famous, but it's just thatyou can reach and touch people in
ways that you just don't even know.
And it's, it's.
I mean, I've not had anybodyshare that kind of story, so I just
really appreciate you doing that.
And Adam, if you can hear this.
Thank you so much for doingwhat you've done and sharing your
gift with the world.
Thanks for doing that, Chris.

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Stop Calling Yourself a Thought Leader (Do THIS First) - With Brian Miller | Ep 358

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Stop Calling Yourself a Thought Leader (Do THIS First) - With Brian Miller | Ep 358