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March 5, 2024 66 mins

Strap in for a wild ride alongside Phil Soussan, the rock legend whose bass lines powered the iconic Ozzy Osbourne and who now thunders with Last In Line. As Phil gets candid about his illustrious journey, he transports us from his Rock Gods Hall of Fame induction to his current project, "Last in Line". We'll also chuckle over a classic anecdote – beware of magnets near your electronics!

Phil doesn't just pluck strings; he strikes chords of advocacy within the music industry, fighting for the rights and royalties of artists in the digital age, and ensuring the FAA understands the importance of a musician's most precious cargo—their instruments. The conversation takes a personal turn as he reminisces about influential bassists, the unique camaraderie on tours with rock's elite, and the Japanese fans' unwavering dedication to American rock. It's a harmonious blend of humor, homage, and the transformative power of music that spans cultures and generations.

Finishing on a high note, Phil shares the serendipity behind his collaboration with Ozzy, the making of "Shot in the Dark," and his upcoming autobiography that promises to resonate deeply with the cultural zeitgeist. Anticipation builds for his fresh solo material, offering a window into his perspective on today's world. It's a heart-to-heart with a bassist who's not just part of music history but continues to make it, and you're front row for the bass line that runs through it all.

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey FU.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
Excuse me, Zzy, it's the Fuzzy Mike with Kevin Klein.
The Fuzzy Mike podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello and thank you for joining me for this exciting
episode.
A while back I went to my30-second tool concert, went
with my longtime friend, jeff,whom I met while I was living in
Texas, and Jeff works in theHouston Astros front office.
It's so strange for me to referto him as Jeff.
I don't think I've ever calledhim that since the day we met

(00:31):
for lunch in 2005, because heshowed up with a man purse.
He's just always been merc tome.
Anyway, merc, knowing my lovefor music, thought it would be
an interesting episode if I hadhis friend Phil on to talk about
Phil's amazing career in music.
Friend Phil yeah, he's PhilSuzan, former bassist for Ozzy,

(00:57):
big Noise, billy Idol, vince,neal, many other artists, and
he's currently touring on theroad with his band Last In Line.
Phil's prolific career, what'sgarnered him induction into the
Rock Gods Hall of Fame andsomething else that he's done in
his life that I find incrediblycool.
He was the vice president ofthe Grammy awards for a couple

(01:19):
of years.
After a couple of technicaldifficulties, we were finally
able to hook up.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, I just discovered something interesting
, which is that if you put alaptop anywhere near a magnet,
it kicks you back out to thesleep screen.
Is that right?
Well, all these years, who knewit right?

Speaker 1 (01:38):
Exactly, we have a difficult time with you know
they don't use keys anymore inyour hotel rooms to give you
those cards that are, yeah,whenever you put it near a
magnet it's.
You got to go back down to thefront desk.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, yeah, I know that all too well.
I'm sure you do Keep yourcredit cards away from that
magnet, that's all.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Absolutely.
How many, how many times a yeardo you sleep in your own bed?
Gosh four, I was going to sayit's got to be low man.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
You know, I've been home quite a bit lately.
So you know we've been doing alot of this weekend warrior type
of shows.
So you know it's not like itused to be, where you wave
goodbye to all your loved onesand then said I'll see you in
about 15 months, when you wenton to a bus and there was no
cell phones and no one could gethold of you.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Very true.
Yeah, it was a simpler time,Phil.
It was also a much morepleasant time, Absolutely yeah,
we'll get into your travels withall of the bands that you're a
part of.
I know you're out with Last inLine right now.
You're getting ready to go on acruise.
You're going to be in Houstonon April the 4th and then two
nights later you're going to benear my house and I'm hoping to

(02:49):
get over to Tulsa to see youguys.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Oh, that would be fantastic?

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yeah, it would be awesome.
So let's talk a little bitabout Houston, because you and I
, as I mentioned before you cameon, we have a mutual friend.
How did you meet Jeff, oh?

Speaker 2 (03:01):
wow.
Well, I think I met him.
I think he was friendly withAndrew actually, but he came to
our shows.
He would come to our shows andyou know, he's such a warm and
hospitable guy and he wouldalways bring one of his friends
who would end up catering thewhole thing with like a bunch of
Tex Max food.
And he's just a sweet guy and westarted talking and we stayed

(03:23):
in touch, and every time hecomes to Vegas, we make a point
of getting together, and everytime I find myself in Houston
it's the same thing as well, andwe both have a great love of
food, so we've got that incommon.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
I need to ask you about your time on the Guy Fieri
show.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Well, he likes food as well, but Jeff does too.
I'm not, so I don't know toomuch about baseball.
I'll be honest with you.
I'm not a huge sports person,but I'm a friend to pretend I am
so but I have a lot of respectto see what they do over there.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
So Well sure, it's not much different than what you
do.
You're an entertainer, they'reentertainers.
They're gone 162 days out ofthe year and you're pretty much
the same.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, they throw a bunch of shit around.
We do the same thing, yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
What happened to the days where breaking the guitar
on stage that ended?
Oh, it got very expensive, Ibet it did.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
I don't know.
I mean, I think you know, oncetwo or three people have done
that, it's like what are yougoing to do If you did that?
Somebody accused you ofplagiarizing somebody else's
stage antics, right, very true.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
That kind of leads me to something that I think about
all the time, and I'm nottalking about influential, I'm
talking about innovative, I'mtalking about people who changed
the instrument.
So who, in your opinion,changed the bass, who took it to
a new level?
I've got my list.
I think Geyser was you had tobe at the forefront right Geyser

(04:56):
Butler.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
Absolutely.
Geyser is just a phenomenalbass player and I remember I was
blown away when I went to seehim.
Actually, I remember one time Iwent with Ozzie to see him.
They were playing at theMarquis in London and we went
just to see him and Ozzie saidto me you know, what would you
think of Geyser?
And I said well, the thing thatblew me away was what he used

(05:17):
to play just using fingers,because I'm a finger player as
well.
But I would usually reservethat for sort of more laid back
kind of music, certainly not forwhen you're trying to compete
against Bill Ward and Tony Iommiat that kind of level of music.
I would find it's quitedifficult.

(05:38):
But he manages to do it.
He has a great sound as well,so it's cool.
I love Terry Butler.
He's a great guy and every timeI see him he's just a super,
super guy, a great gentleman,and it was always nice to see
him.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
That's the same thing people say about you Very
humble, very kind gentleman.
Well, that's very nice.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
I'll take that as a compliment.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
As you should, sir, as you should.
So you were getting ready tosay your list.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
Well, yeah, the people who changed it.
I suppose you know the bass hasalways been for me.
I have a classical background,so bass is what's called figured
bass.
It's basically something youwould find in if you went back
to four-part harmony, to Bachmusic or stuff like that.
It's a very key point that youhave a melody line, you have a
bass line and these two thingsinteract in a certain way, and

(06:24):
then everything that happens inbetween is subject to some
degree of interpretation andthat's really how it's
constructed.
So your bass lines are very,very important.
They're very tied to a melodyline.
But what would be differentwould be somebody who took that
and maybe brought it to theforefront to somebody who would
treat it as a solo instrument.
So I would have to say it's thejack of the story.
Isn't the Stanley Clarks andpeople of that ilk who actually

(06:47):
came out and said, look, I can,we can play.
You know, we can use this as alead instrument?
Maybe that's the best exampleof somebody who's really made a
big, a big difference to thebass changing the role of what
it does.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
But if you, if you use that as the criteria, I have
to think then that JustinChancellor from Tool would be
right up there, because he'sdoing solos in live performances
that sound like a lead guitar.
That's crazy.
How do you get your bass to dothat?

Speaker 2 (07:16):
Well, you have to have a certain sound that will
do it.
And I know he uses wall basses.
I've been using wall bassessince Ian Waller made my first
one for me years and years ago.
Sadly he's not around anymoreand these are very, very coveted
instruments.
They're hard to find and theyhave a unique sound.
I mean, anyone who hears Toolknows exactly what I'm talking

(07:37):
about and also the way that heplays, because he does play
incredible solo stuff.
But the whole construction ofthe music in that band is almost
mathematical.
It is, it really is.
I've looked at it, I've learnedsome of those tracks because
I've jammed them with people andyou know it's definitely a lot

(07:57):
of stuff going on and it's andit's, it's.
It's a lot of fun for a bassplayer.
Of course, you know.
Last thing you want to do is,you know, while there's a lot of
catharsis in playing, you knowplaying along, playing root
notes and playing simple stuffin great ballads, for example,
there's also a lot of joy inplaying that kind of stuff where
you get to the forefront andreally you know, expand and
start to push the envelope withwhat it is that you can do.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
Well, I think you're doing kind of both with last in
line, I think you're you're.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
There's aggressiveness to it, but
there's also some really greatmelody, yeah there is, and I've
been trying to play just reallywhat comes to mind as what's
appropriate.
I always play for the song.
I've always said that I thinkthe most important thing you can
do is is to do so and not toplay for yourself.
So whatever the song calls for,but within that there are

(08:49):
things that you hear that inyour head that you want to sort
of put across.
I have a lot of influences.
For example, you know, I had agreat deal of post punk
influence growing up where I,where I grew up in London, and
so there was a lot, of, a lot ofinfluences and things that
would come out, that sort ofcreep out sometimes.

(09:09):
I mean I love bands likeKilling Joke, I love bands that,
all those kinds of sort ofdarker post punk things, and
there were some amazingbaselines in these, in these, in
these, in these tracks, and soI'll do something.
That doesn't always come tomind and I always try to merge
something.
I'll think outside the box,I'll say, well, would what?
Would something completelyrandom?

(09:31):
You know, what would?
What would I do if this was aseal track and then play that
and then find a way to make thatheavy so that it has some kind
of influence, Like when peoplesay to me, especially people who
are, you know, young bassplayers, they say, hey, you know
how can I start to develop mystyle or whatever.
I use the analogy of a folder.
You know, just say you've gotto build your folder, but what

(09:52):
you can do is go to this biglibrary which has everybody's
folders in it.
You can take a page out of it,the other one, put it together
and that becomes your folder.
So use those influences and youknow, we all inspire each other
, we all influence each other.
We've all, we've all heardstuff that you say wow, man, I
wish I could, I had thought ofthat, or I wish I could play
that.
We'll take some, you know,learn it and take some influence

(10:13):
from it.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
All right, this is going to be a tough question,
then, for you.
But what is that one song orthat one bass line that you like
?
Oh my God, I wish I did.
I wish I did come up with that.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
Well, you talk about Last in Line, for example.
I would have to say you knowthe song Last in Line.
I mean, what Jimmy did on thatwas fantastic.
It's such a simple,straightforward bass line but
it's really cool and it's thesort of thing I wish I would
have come up with, and itincorporates a lot of stuff that
I relate to.
You know, I hear a lot of AndyFraser in that.

(10:44):
I mean, I knew Jimmy so I knowwhere his influences came from.
But definitely Andy Fraser andjust the ideas of how he you
know how he would create arepeating pattern but then
started halfway through orchanged something about it.
Use a high octave instead of alow octave the first time and
then fall down to the low octave, and it gives it a just a

(11:08):
different feel, because youthink that the bass line sort of
started half a bar before itactually did.
It's just clever, it's justclever.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
So you're talking about?
You're talking about Jimmy,jimmy Bain, and he was the bass
player for Ronnie James Dio.
Last in line is the projectthat you're heavily involved in
now, and it started becauseVivian Campbell Def Leppard
Ronnie James Dio and then Jimmydecided that they wanted to
carry on the music of RonnieJames Dio after he passed away.

(11:35):
Now take us to the progression,please.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
Well, I don't know if that's what they were motivated
to do, according to Veer, ifthey just sort of had talked at
some point and they said, hey,why don't we just go in a room,
just for old times sake, andjust jam and bang through some
of these songs we haven't playedin 20 years?
Just just.
I think it was just a fun.
And they did that and from whatI understand they they got off

(12:00):
at a couple of gigs and they dida couple of gigs and then they
got off at a big gig in Japan,which they did, and then they
said, well, you know, maybe weshould I don't know write an
original album or something.
And they started working on thefirst album, the album that
became Heavy Crown, and the timeJimmy, of course, was working

(12:20):
with them, and just prior to therelease, literally just prior
to the release of that album, itwas when Jimmy passed away.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, when it was on a cruise, wasn't?

Speaker 2 (12:28):
it.
It was indeed on a cruise.
It was on the.
I think it was on Def Leppardcruise, wasn't?

Speaker 1 (12:34):
it, it was yeah, yeah .

Speaker 2 (12:36):
That's an appropriate name as well, something drama
on the high seas or somethinglike that.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
So Yep, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
Not totally off the off the mark was it, but the
after that happened.
You know, vinny and I haveworked together since, I don't
know, 2005 or something.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
Vinny, vinny Apasey he's just those names around
like they're nobody you know.
Vinny Ozzy Viv yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
That is so cool.
There's only one, vinny, butthere's two ways of pronouncing
his last name.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
And those two are what.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
Well, there's Apasey, it's Vinny Apasey and it's
Carmine Apice.
That's right.
Because you got to get it right.
I like to say that they're twobrothers separated by a common
family name, you know, but it'squite funny because they do get
very attached to thepronunciation of their names and

(13:32):
I work with both of them.
So you know I have to checkmyself, I have to take a quick,
you know, split second pause andgo Apasey.

Speaker 1 (13:41):
Which one?
Which one?
Which one you were just talkingabout, last in line going over
to Japan?
How does music translateuniversally?
I don't understand Japaneselyrics.
How do they understand Englishlyrics as rapidly and as
passionately as they do?

Speaker 2 (14:01):
I don't know, they're very passionate about stuff
like that.
I think it's a.
I think it's an incrediblyarrogant of English and English
speaking people to expect theentire world is going to speak
English when you go there, andso for that reason, I've always
tried to sort of learn languages.
I love I actually get a lot ofpleasure out of that kind of
stuff.
So, you know, I startedlearning Japanese at one time
after I've gone there severaltimes and I can get by Really

(14:24):
Absolutely I speak otherlanguage.
So it's, it's that kind of fun,and I think that they were very
much enthralled with anythingthat was Americana in Japan.
For a long, long time there'sno secret about that They've
always been, you know, verydedicated fans and they want to
find out as much as possible.
I mean, having said that, I'mactually really good with our

(14:45):
friends, with Don Wilson'sdaughter, stacy, and Stacy Lane
Wilson, who Don was, of course,in the Ventures, and the
Ventures to this day areprobably the biggest foreign
band in Japan, wow, the Biggerthan Beatles, bigger than
anything else, huge, and one ofthe and nobody really

(15:07):
understands it, you see, like apop fiction, you can see, it's
just this.
There's this whole Japanesething about this kind of surf
music that they just lap up, andone supposition was that maybe
it's just because there weren'tany lyrics and so it was just
maybe.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
I don't know, it could very well be.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
I mean, some of the best songs that I've heard are
instrumentals, you know, andthat's that's kind of what you
started doing with classicalmusic.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah, and, and you know, I mean to this day I think
it'd be hard pressed to find aguitar player who wasn't
influenced by the Ventures.
I mean every legend, from JimmyPage to Billy Gibbons, I mean
it was.
You know this, this is a bandthat really it was a bit like
this, like like the shadows inBritain, that kind of really
influenced a lot of you know,melodic guitar playing solos,

(15:54):
the idea that you would carry anentire song as an instrumental.

Speaker 1 (15:58):
You don't often hear them cited as such a prominent
band in people's musicaleducation.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Well, you know, I mean, I recently was at an award
show, a ceremony, and a coupleof the guitar players.
They actually cited theVentures as their early
influences.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
That's awesome.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
You know, first time I heard the Ventures, I knew
there was going to do and Idon't.
You know, I I don't know theanswer to that.
I think that they're, they havean incredible brand.
I think that the Ventures to meis synonymous with everything
that was, you know, 60s Americanmusic.
You know, just the same way,that Elvis was synonymous with

(16:43):
50s American rock and roll andit was a very I mean, you know,
I can't think about the BeachBoys without thinking of that
era.
Sure, I can't think about youknow those types of music, and
so I think maybe they do have it.
It's definitely something thatthat could be, that could be

(17:04):
revived at some point,re-discovered.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
Dick Dale's not around anymore.
So yeah, there's a definiteopening.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
No, he's not around.
I used to see him every singleyear at the Nam show because he
was a Dean Markley string artist, like I was for years and years
, and he was a wonderful,wonderful guy he's.
He'd chat with his son all thetime.
That there's another greatlegend of that era, right.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
Absolutely, oh for sure.
So you talked about someguitarists citing the ventures.
Is what made them want to getinto music?
What was it that got you?

Speaker 2 (17:33):
into it.
Well, I, I've had a passion formusic since I could ever
remember.
I mean, maybe you know I have.
I have recollections, Iactually have memory
recollections of when I was ayear old, which is pretty weird,
that is phenomenal, yeah.
But very, very few of them.
But I still have them and Iremember checking them with my

(17:54):
mom and she was like, oh my gosh, but when I was very young I
think probably just over twoyears old I had my mom's cousins
who lived in France, who wereboth musicians, and they came
over and they bought me a littlerecord player, which kids
record player and you could putrecords on.
I would apparently sit there andplay records, just sit in my

(18:16):
arms folded, and sing along tothese records, and that's how it
all sort of began.
And then it progressed to.
They also brought me my, boughtme my first guitar, a little
miniature wooden guitar, and Ireally didn't know what to do
with it.
And shortly thereafter, I mean,I started with other
instruments, normal childhoodinstruments, recorders,

(18:40):
melodicas, all these things,things that you could actually
have lessons for, and I becameactive with that at my primary
school and then, of course, Ijust just developed this thing
for music.
My mom would play music aroundthe house.
She always had radio to goingand she would listen to a lot of
pop music.

(19:00):
I heard a lot of Beatles, Iheard a lot of sixties music and
I was just surrounded withmusic all the time, and it's
just something I became verypassionate about.
As I went to school, I startedlearning, taking more and more
music classes, and eventually Ithink I was probably about 10 or
11 years old when I startedplaying violin, and I played
violin for 12, 12, 14 yearsafter that, and classical.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Did you really make a makeshift violin out of that
guitar and you took yourgrandfather's cane or anything?
Okay, so that's what I want totalk to you about how much of
your bio on PhilSusancom is trueand how much of its comedy and
fiction.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
Well, what happened was that I did take my dad's
cane.
Okay, I saw people doing thiswith violin and I thought I
tried doing with the cane tomake any sound.
I thought, being the scientificguy that I was, I was like this
I need to create more friction.
So I started carving littlenotches in it.
So I didn't make a violin outof it, I just used the cane on

(20:01):
the guitar, and I think that wasthe inspiration for Jimmy Page
using the violin bow on theguitar later in later years.
But I wouldn't swear to it.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
Okay, boy, you bring up Jimmy Page.
I want to talk about that story.
This is probably the longestyou've ever gone into
conversation without having totalk about shot in the dark and
Ozzy days.
But I want to also talk aboutit's something that really
fascinates me, and you were thevice president of the Grammy
awards for two years.
Take me through the Grammyawards.

(20:31):
How much music do you have tolisten to to adjudicate those
awards?

Speaker 2 (20:37):
Well, I didn't really do that much on the Grammy
awards, but because the Grammysis a recording academy and as a
recording academy they havebuilt pillars on four or five
different things, and one ofthem is the awards show, which
happens once a year, but for theother 364 days there's an awful
lot of other stuff that goes onthat I was very much involved

(21:00):
in.
So to me, the awards show wasnot something I was particularly
.
You know that's not the reasonI went to do this.
You know, the other pillarsthat they had were, of course,
archiving and preservation,there was advocacy, there was
music cares and then, of course,the awards show as well, and

(21:23):
some of these other things I wasmuch more interested in.
The reason I went onto the boardwas actually to pay back.
My dear friend was RandyCastillo, who you know passed
away and during his bout ofcancer music cares did help him

(21:43):
quite a bit.
Unfortunately it didn't help himenough, but I don't think
anyone could have helped himenough, but it certainly helped
him to the point where I saidyou know, maybe I'd like to do
something for this organizationas well, because I could see
what good they were doing forother people, and so that was my
motivation to go on therecording academy.
And I remember I was at a nameshow and walking past the

(22:10):
narress the Grammys is alsoknown as narress as well Right
Walking past the narress boothand I was with my wife and I
said, you know, I'd love to goon the board with that, I'd love
to see what I could do.
And you know, so I did a coupleof things, reached out to some
people, got on a ballot and thengot basically elected to be on

(22:34):
the board, and so I was on thegoverning board for six years I
think, and at the end of thatsix year period I then put
myself up to run as vicepresident and there was a little
bit of an election.
Never heard that word before,right.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
Right never.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
And I managed to.
I was voted to vice presidentof the LA chapter, which is the
biggest chapter, so I workedthere for two years.

Speaker 1 (23:03):
So what's your proudest accomplishment on
narress and in the Grammy board?

Speaker 2 (23:09):
Well, we did a lot of work in the rebranding of the
Grammys.
We rebranded everything it'sabout 2012, 2013,.
Because it needed bringing upand we needed to have a new face
of the Grammys.
We needed to have a newreputation.
We needed to invite and makeour presence well known to new

(23:30):
artists, new types of artists,et cetera.
The other things that I did wasa lot of advocacy stuff.
I'm really fascinated by that.
We're in a business whereeverything is in a constant
state of flux and changing.
I mean, just in the last 10years, nobody knew what
streaming was.
Now it's the de facto method bywhich people acquire and listen

(23:54):
to music.
We had lots and lots of thingswe were wrestling with
bootlegging CDs back then andwhile all the industry changes
and things change, well, themusic has to keep up with it,
because people are going tostart to want things.
They're going to want toestablish their business models

(24:18):
within and incorporate the musicthat we create, and if we're
not there at the table having avoice, we're gonna get taken
advantage of.
It's as simple as that.
So, while everything ischanging, when people start
talking about streaming, we haveto say, okay, well, streaming,
we need a new royalty.
So one of the things thathappened, for example.
I don't know if I want to boreyou with details, but no.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
I'm fascinated by this.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
There are two basic sources for royalties for
musicians and I'm talking aboutwriters right now and one of
them is called performances andone of them is called
mechanicals.
So performance is for theperformance of the music that
you hear on the radio or on theTV, or a live show or in a bar,
and the mechanicals are thingsthat you generate from the
actual sale of a recording, soan album, a CD, a tape, a

(25:06):
cassette, whatever, and then youhave to download.
So now all of a sudden.
Well, no, no, no, no.
Now they're downloading it andthey're streaming it, and now
everybody's fighting going holdon a second.
That's a performance, right?
No, it's not, it's a mechanical.
And the arguments are fantasticWell, it must be.
Streaming must be a mechanicalbecause it buffers, so it takes
about a quarter of a second tobuffer.
During that quarter of a second, you actually own the music, so

(25:28):
therefore it must be amechanical.
No, no, no, it's a performancebecause it's actually being
broadcast.
And these arguments are takingplace because there is no
definition.
So you have to get in themiddle.
And we've put together theMusic First Coalition.
We put together organizationswhich would come together and
say let's have a debate aboutthis, let's figure out exactly
what it is, and if it turns outto be a completely new and

(25:50):
unique royalty, then perhaps wehave to have a new and unique
royalty collection agency for it.
Age of it pretty much what'shappened.
So some of those things arepretty cool.
I was also instrumental inhelping to pass the FAA
instrument flight rule, whichdictates that people be allowed

(26:14):
to take instruments into thecabinet flights and not be
forced not to.
So that was already a hugevictory.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
That didn't happen until recently.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
No, I was involved in that.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
My goodness, I never knew that.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
That's fascinating.
They can't you know.
At one time it was like no, youcan't bring that.
What would it be?
You're gonna have to check it,but I can't.
It's a priceless guitar, it'sgonna get thrown around.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yeah exactly.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
Well, sorry you can't get on the flight Now they have
to.
They have to try to accommodateyou and for any viewers
watching out there, if you everget into an altercation, don't
fight with the gate staff, it'snot up to them.
Ask very nicely and politely ifyou can ask permission from the
flight crew, because they'rethe ones who have the final law
and they do understand that law,so they're the ones that have
full jurisdiction on that andunfortunately it only applies in

(27:01):
the United States.
But they absolutely have theworst reputation.
I'm not mentioning any names,but the initials begin with
British Airways and they arejust I refuse to fly.
British Airways, never, will,never, will, ever again.
Horrible airline.
It's so rude and sodisrespectful to musicians they
pretty much have in their smallprint that they refuse to humor

(27:23):
anybody that has a musicalinstrument.
Wow.
And they kind of have to dostuff according to the FAA in
the United States, but outsidethe US they're subject to their
own.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
They can be there they can be themselves.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
They can be themselves, they can show their
colors for their true colors.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
How is AI going to influence music?
Is it dangerous?
Is it a dangerous slope?

Speaker 2 (27:43):
I don't know I'm not terribly worried.
Okay, I've tried AI to lyricsand stuff like that, just to see
what happens.
And you can say hey, write me asong which has this title, in
the style of this band.
And I tried to do that, I think.
With it I said I'm just curious, write me a song.
I can't remember the title Iused.

(28:05):
I went the style of RollingStones or something right, and I
put as much information as Icould into this thing, into this
engine, and it comes back withthis lyric.
And I read the lyric and I gookay, and it does.
It rhymes and there's a wholeload of stuff about night and
light and bright and fight,which words which I pour.
I pour because that's the mostcliched rhymes that you could

(28:26):
ever find and it's full of itand there's nothing technically
wrong, but there's.
You know, the whole ideawriting a song is to try to put
a feeling across.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
Yeah, songs have to be personal right.
It has to be personal, yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
So some of this stuff is.
You get the feeling like whowrote this stuff?
It's not really personal.
I mean, I would have morerespect if it said geez, you
know my diodes are burning andyou know my capacitors are full
charge, and you know, at leastI'd say, okay, the machine feels
something.
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
So what about?
What about the?
What happened not too long agowith Taylor Swift, where they
were copying her voice and usingit in kind of weird and awkward
ways?
Are we gonna see a day where awell, we already saw it with
Millie Vanilly at the Grammys,but are we gonna see a day where

(29:21):
an AI generated voice wins aGrammy?

Speaker 2 (29:25):
Or we have to be in an AI category, wouldn't it?

Speaker 1 (29:28):
It would have to be.
Yeah, it would have to be.
But then how would you know thedifference?

Speaker 2 (29:32):
I can't imagine that.
I can't imagine that's gonna bethe case.
But the whole AI thing, I think, is a little bit reminiscent of
the dot com bubble in 2000,where you just had to put dot
com next to anything and it wasgonna be worth a fortune
overnight.
It's currency went up and it'svalue it's imagined value went

(29:54):
up.
In retrospect, only a fewcompanies actually managed to
run with that ball that arearound today and they are very,
very successful companies, butit's actually taken them 20
years to fill back into thevalue they had back then and
then lost and then regained it.
So a good example, for example,just off the top of my head,

(30:17):
would be the idea that internetcybersecurity that's a big thing
.
Ai is huge for cybersecuritybecause what you can do is you
can take a website or aweb-based business or whatever
it is, and you can reallyanalyze it with AI and you can

(30:37):
find out every possible loopholeand find out everything to
defend against any kind of cyberattacks.
So this is the greatest thingthat's ever been invented.
This is the panacea, this isthe primary rule, except for the
fact that the criminals alsohave access to AI.
So now we've got AI people, ailooking for holes, other AI.

(30:58):
You basically have the sameproblem.
It's just now on a differentlevel.
So there's always a trade-off tothese things and people don't
always think about, well, what'sthe downside here, what's the
trade-off?
So it's very easy for right now.
I'm sure if you've beenwatching the news you've seen
some of these computer companies, these chip companies, that are

(31:19):
just going sky high becausethere's the potential of AI.
Reminds me that Donald Fagan,the nightfly, where he talks
about the IGY and how things aregoing to be great in the future
and how incredible it's allgoing to be.
And it's all a dream from the60s.
Nobody really could haveanticipated the downside to it.

(31:40):
It all sounds like a panacea.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yes, it does.
Well, it kind of reminds me ofthe movie Oppenheimer.
Nobody I don't know if anybodyreally realized the downside,
except for the scientiststhemselves.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
Right.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yeah, so take me to let me get the date correct here
, the date of October 26th 2017,when you became immortal,
inducted into the Rock Gods Hallof Fame.
See, that's how little it meantto Phil, right there.
He had to think about it.
I, on the other hand, wouldhave been jumping up and down,

(32:17):
going dude, Rock Hall of Fame.
I'm a rock god.
Is that not an impressive thingfor you?

Speaker 2 (32:24):
I'm not belittling it .
It was a really, it was a greathonor.
And I was very surprised that Igot a phone call asking me and
saying, hey, we've decided thatwe're going to induct you in the
Rock and Roll, the Rock GodsHall of Fame.
And I was like, wow, really me,why me?
And so, yeah, I went to thethis is a fantastic ceremony and

(32:50):
it was in LA at the time and atthe same time my dear friend
Richie Cartes, and got inductedas well, right, yep, yeah,
there's a few of us did.
We played a great show.
It was a very sort of impromptujam show.
Had some really had thepresentations that were taking
place.
It was just a fantastic evening.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
That's great.
Do you have a?
Do you get a plaque or a, abust or anything?

Speaker 2 (33:14):
I've got a big platinum album looking
presentation thing downstairswhich-.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
Have you ever sat down and thought about how many
albums you've sold as an artist?
Collectively total.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
No, no, I haven't.
I mean it's.
It's gotta be in the millions.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
Absolutely gotta be in the millions.
Oh, for sure.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
It's not something I usually think about, but yeah,
I'm sure it's.
It's a, you know, contributedin many.
I mean I was, I was at a, I wasat Eddie Trunks birthday, the
40th, yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
Yeah, jeff told me all about that.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
Yeah, and Kevin Cronin was there from RS
Bigwagon and he introduced himas somebody who had a diamond
album, which means it sold over10 million copies.
Yeah, and I was like, wow, Ididn't know what a diamond album
was.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
Yep, yep, not many of them floating around, but the
ones that are.
I mean, thriller is obviouslyone of them.
Yeah, taylor Swift got a couple, but yeah, I mean that's a
whole another level right there,man, yeah.
Whole another level.
Yeah, what is?
I hesitate to ask you thisbecause you are so humble, but

(34:26):
was there a?
Hey, mom and dad, I made itmoment.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
Oh, yes, yes, there was it's.
It's not something I usuallytalk too much about, but I Could
talk about it in a way thatmost people might relate to it,
which is that when I, when I wasFiguring out what I was gonna

(34:50):
do the rest of my life I meanoriginally this is kind of weird
.
I was actually a pre-made, sothat's what I was gonna do.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
Oh, so that's not BS on your on your web page.
See, I thought that was too.
I'm like man, this guy's justhilarious.
You were really going intomedicine.
That's what I want to do.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
I have a level degrees in physics, chemistry
and biology and that's what Iwas doing, and and then, for
whatever reason, one day Idecided that what I was really
passionate about was music, and,and I was sort of doing
everything else in order tofacilitate me being able to play
music.
And certain points in time Icouldn't do both anymore and I

(35:28):
had to make an adult decision.
So telling my parents that wasnot really the greatest news
that they wanted here in theworld, so they were not terribly
supportive and I think mostpeople would find that you know,
I mean, it was.
It was funny.
My dad said to me one time hesaid he'd had a pep talk with me
and said you know, it's to findsomething that you really love

(35:49):
doing, because if you can findsomething you love doing, you'll
never work a day in your lifeand something that you would do
even after you retire.
And somebody and I said yeah.
So when I went and told him Isaid I'm gonna be a musician and
his response was anything butthat.
So anyway, it wasn't.
You know, I didn't get exactlyhave a overwhelming support from

(36:12):
my, my parents, and it'sunderstandable that they weren't
bad or anything.
They just were not terriblythrilled about it.
So I think that that kind ofgave me a little bit of
motivation, but that I had tofind some way to succeed.
And what I did and for me thesuccess was not how many albums
I sold or how many millions, orfiguring out how many records
I'd sold or whatever, or For me,I mean I, I set myself a very

(36:36):
attainable goal.
I said, look, if I can, if Ican pay my bills and I can live
Doing what I love doing, I willconsider that to be success, and
anything else that happensbeyond that is bonus.
In doing so it's, it's anattainable level of success.
It's not an unrealistic, youknow, a vision.

(36:57):
And if you can do that well,then it's quite easy to sort of
up the up the the ante a littlebit more as you go along and
raise the bar.
That's not a problem.
But I always advise people toset, you know, attainable levels
.
You can't just go out there andsay, hey, I don't want to play
in the World series, we'retalking about ball right.

(37:18):
Yeah, you can't come out therebecause you know it's too, it's
not attainable.
I mean, maybe one day you willplay in the world series, but
that is a goal is not going tohelp you.
You can go out there and say,hey, I want to, I want to be
able to hit that ball Perfectlywith this and we for the right
pitch.
That is something that youmight be able to work towards,

(37:39):
and if you continue to do thatevery single time, well then
guess what?
Maybe one day you will beplaying the world series.
A series of little baby steps,and that's what I tell people.
You know, and it's veryimportant because you have.
You have to always remainconfident, you have to be
positive and you cannot beharboring disappointments.
It's just, it's going to workagainst you.

(38:00):
So you've always got to bedoing things that say, oh man, I
managed to do that, that'sreally cool.
And then, and then you, you'rehappy with what you do.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
So it's it's a little bit of a life coach it's a lot
of life coach and Basically, theoverriding thing that you said
in your baseball analogy,without actually saying it, is
Control the things you cancontrol getting to a world
series.
There's so much out of yourhands, you know, but you are the
one that controls.
Can I hit the ball better?

(38:28):
Can I hit the ball further?
Can I, you know?
Can I play that notedifferently?
Can I, you know?
Not how many people can I bringinto the stadium, but what can
I do to better myself?

Speaker 2 (38:39):
and then that goal becomes achievable and if you do
that, you, I have found thatFame and fortune are the
byproducts of that.
They spin off, they will comeby themselves absolutely.
And so you don't have to worrytoo much about that.
Just just worry about doing,worry about hitting that ball
exactly Um you brought up.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
Let disappointment go and you know, be prepared for
disappointment.
In an industry where you'reconstantly critiqued, you're you
.
People have opinions all thetime.
How do you, how do you, letthat go?

Speaker 2 (39:10):
Most of the time I don't care.
Yeah, sometimes it bothers meif people say things or you know
, there's.
You know, listen, you can't gothrough life and think that
you're gonna have, um, uh, thateverybody is going to think you
know you're gonna have a friendin every single person that you
meet.
There's, they're gonna people,people who like you, people who
don't like you, and that's justnormal.

(39:31):
So you know, again, you have tofocus on the people that do
like you, it's?
There's a funny story of ananecdote about Critic critics,
music critics where somebodygoes to a show and plays a show
and then somebody jumps up andsays Something shitty about you.
You know how you sucked, youknow, and, and it happens all

(39:52):
the time, and, and and and you.
You see artists that goClambering over the fans to find
that person, to convince themotherwise, and and disrespecting
all the fans that actually dolove you and love what you do,
in order to get to that person.
But that's an ego thing, isn'tit?
Yes, it is.
It's an ego thing, for sure.
So sometimes the better thingsto do is to focus on those fans,

(40:14):
those people who do like whatyou do, spend time with them
because they're thrilled to bethere You're the reason that
they're the reason that you'rethere and and let those other
people say, hey, you know what.
You're entitled to your ownopinion, and that's just fine,
but I'm curious as to why youpaid for a ticket to come and
see me suck.
That's a great question.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
That's a great question.
There are three telephone callsI want to talk with you about,
and Because what we've alreadytalked about one, it's getting
the call for the rock guys hallof fame.
Talk to me about the, thetelephone call with uh, with
jimmy page.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
Yeah, so it was.
It was not that.
Um that, that bizarre.
I was in a band uh, simon Kirk'ssolo band after bad company,
the bank of wildlife, and Iplayed.
We did an album on swan songrecords which was Led Zeppelin's
label.
We originally were going tosign it to another label, but
Bad company were managed byPeter Grant and so Simon was,
and so it was deemed that thisband should be on swan song.

(41:10):
Peter Grant should manage us.
So that's what happened, um,and then when that band kind of
petered out, I Was unique in theband because I was a huge
Zeppelin fan and I don't knowthat anyone else was.
So I was always, you know,wanting to meet Jimmy.

(41:32):
I was always going to the swansong offices hoping to see
somebody down there.
This, this band, was a veryreclusive band back then.
You know that right?
Uh-huh, I absolutely.
I mean, you couldn't even findphotographs and it's like
Somebody might have walked inand you wouldn't even known it,
and but I was just in tune withthat stuff.
I remember we, um, we recordedthe album at the soul studios,

(41:53):
which is the studio that jimmypage bought from gus dodd
dodgeon.
Um, it's the guy who wrote thealbum.
Um, it's the guy who producedthe genesis albums and stuff
Anyway.
And so we were down there andthere was always this never
ending rumor that Jimmy wasgonna pop by.
So for days and days and days Iwould say in that studio they
would go out, everyone would goout for a treat, drink, whatever

(42:14):
, and I'd be none, I'm gonnahang here.
And they never showed up.
And then one day I said, oh,fuck it, let's just go.
So we went to this pub aroundthe corner, came back and Peter
Grant called next day.
I said, yeah, jimmy came by thestudio and no one was there.
Anyway, so the guy who workedfor us from Swan Song is still

(42:35):
one of my dearest friends, philCarlo His name is.
He was.
He was Zeppelin's tour managertowards the end and he worked at
that company for years and hewas the swanson liaison guy and
he was looking after Jimmy.
And one day I got a call and hesaid Jimmy wants to know if you
want to put a band togetherWith him.
And I said with me what do youmean with me?

(42:55):
And I don't think it was withme as much as Jimmy wants to put
a Band together.
And Phil had said hey, whatabout Phil?
He's a big fan.
Jimmy probably said okay, well,let's try and get together and
make some noise.
I think that's what how about.
And we went to, we got togetherin NoMu Studios, very famous
studio in London and.

(43:15):
Three of us.
It was Chris, slade, myself andJimmy.
I knew Chris and and I think wewere really nervous Waiting for
him to show up, and he shows upafter a short while and it was
just, it was just nerve-wrackingeven though he wanted you to be

(43:36):
there.
Well, I guess I he did.
But again, I hasten to add, itwas probably that Phil had
suggested why don't I give Phila call?
And yeah, you know, see whathappens.
So I don't know if he wanted meto be there as much as because
that's just the way it pannedout and and we started playing.
And you know, we I don't knowthat it was very clear what we
were trying to do, but we willdefinitely make it some noise.

(44:00):
And I'll share one thing withyou at one point Jimmy kind of
stopped and he said look, and hejust gave us this little talk.
He said look, I know you guysare probably quite nervous
playing with me, you know.
But however nervous you are,you know I'm probably ten times
as nervous I haven't played inthe last few years.
So with that you kind of justbroke the ice.

(44:23):
Yeah, suddenly started playingfavorite songs.
I have a Background in in 50sAmericana rock and roll which I
loved.
I love Bill Black, I loved thatkind of music early, elvis and
I studied it, rockabilly, all ofthat, all of those styles of
music.
So of course, things likerockabilly, classics, like train

(44:44):
kept rolling and stuff likethat, yeah, we just had fun, we
just started playing the songsthat we love playing.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
Well Zeppelin was a blues band at heart.
Yeah, so I can totally get in,get into you guys gravitating
towards that and Jimmy's justhaving a blast with it for sure.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
Yeah, and then we were playing communication
breakdown.
We were playing and I amplaying these songs and I'm
going, oh my god.
Bob dad, I made it, wasn't thatI mean it would have been for
me.
It was fun we were having, wewere just having fun doing it
and we we got together and wejammed for quite some time.
Every day we get together andplay and sometimes we go out at

(45:23):
night and we go out to see aband or something and that's
somebody say I'd say, oh, that'sJimmy Page, yeah right, it was
funny.
I had a friend, frank Cole, whowas an Irish guy who ran an
illegal speak easy in LondonCalled the funny farm.
Any English musician you talkto will know the funny fun so

(45:45):
and One day he said to me youknow, just for fun I would go
work there.
Sometimes I'd the guy go ten,you know, go go mix cocktails
behind the bar.
It was a completely outrageous,just noisy, full of crazy Wacky
music and if they didn't knowwho you were, that you couldn't
get in.
If they did, you could get in.
It was it was just a who's whoof the whole music industry was

(46:08):
in the basement of this Greekhotel and so I would go after
playing with Jimmy and I'd takeJimmy down there we go the funny
farm and he would sit in thecorner talking to people and I'd
be sitting there mixing drinksand I'm going this is crazy.
Here I'm mixing drinks andplaying with Jimmy during the
day.
That's absolutely crazy, insanenuts Frank lives in New York now

(46:29):
he's I talked to him about asto this day I talked to him, you
know, at least once a week wehave a call and he's a
phenomenal chef.
You've been, you know,bartender and he's a great chef.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
I understand you are too.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
Oh, I like cooking.
Yeah, what's your specialty?
I don't know anything.
Anything I Make.
I do a lot of Mediterraneaninspired stuff, I do a lot of
Asian inspired stuff, I do a lotof roasts, things like that.
But I think it's my.
My childhood love of chemistryManifested itself Creating

(47:04):
things.
What happens if I put this inhere?

Speaker 1 (47:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
I'm buying flavors, I think it's.
It's just, you know, the foodindustry and the music industry.
I consider to be the sameindustry, and they're both the
hospitality industry.
Yeah, taking people away fromthe ordinary events of their day
and showing them a little bitof a, you know it's a scapeism,
it's a little escape, exactly,and I find it as cathartic as

(47:30):
they both is as much fun as eachother.
I'm a resident and when I hadthe restaurant, there was
nothing that gave me morepleasure than walking around the
restaurant, meeting people,buying them a drink, you know,
just chatting with them, and itwas.
It was the same Experience andfeeling that I have going on a
stage and entertaining people.
Same thing.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
That is very cool.
I never I really never thoughtof it that way.
You know that they're bothintertwined, so but that makes
perfect sense.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
Yeah, we were talking about this with the.
I went to see Night Rangernightfall last and my friend
Kerry Kelly plays guitar andthen he has, he has two
restaurants.
You know, uh-huh, there's twobars, and so we, you know, we
always talk about the singingthings in commons, but it is,
it's true.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
Jeff's supposed to be hooking me up with some
interviews for Night Rangerbecause they're coming to
Branson Later on this summer andI want to talk to them about
their, about their show.
And you know who else wascoming to that show is your
buddy, vince, vince Neil.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
Oh right.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
Yeah.
So in talking to you now, I'mso excited about this bill
because I am now one degree ofseparation from the first three
bands I ever saw in concertwhich were.
My very first concert was deathleopard power mania tour.
So we got Viv now.
Okay, second tour, the secondconcert I ever saw, the one
after that was Ozzy bark themoon Okay.

(48:47):
So we got Ozzy here and thenMotley crew was in support of
shout at the devil and theyopened up for Ozzy on bark at
the moon that's right, they did.
Yeah, and my mom wouldn't let meget a tattoo, so I just wrote
CRUE in black magic marker on my, on my, on my knuckles.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
Oh my gosh, that's funny.
Yeah, tell me what's that?
Is it still there?

Speaker 1 (49:08):
No, no, it was in black Mars here.
Yeah, you watch your handssince then.
Right, I have watched my end ofkid I'm, I'm OCD.
So yeah, I've watched my handsconsiderably between now and
then whether you need it to ornot exactly right, sir.
Tell me about the call thatOzzy gave you and when you
became a part of that band.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
It wasn't so much.
Oh, actually there was a call.
I knew Ozzy and I knew Sharonand I knew their secretary very
well.
If England was a very, verysmall music scene, you have to
understand that.
And so everybody sort of knowseverybody, at least in passing,
and so, yeah, I knew people attheir management and so Really,

(49:51):
I've been playing, I've beenworking with Jimmy, and then I
went and did a couple of showsWith some other people and
somebody asked me to do a TVshow.
That was a live TV show.
It's called show, is called ECT, I think it was and I said that
I would do it and I went off todo this live show and it would
broadcast in London and at theend it was great.

(50:13):
I went back to with my friendsto my apartment, well staying,
and we said, oh, let's go hang,we'll go and do something.
Whatever it was.
You know You're a littleeuphoric because you've just
done a good, cool show and usedyour friends around, and so, and
all of a sudden the phone ringsand it was a Sharon, secretary
Lynn, and she said, yeah, phil,I've got somebody who wants to
have a word with you.

(50:33):
And I said okay, and andsomebody gets on the phone says
it's Aussie and he says I justsaw that show and I'm looking
for a base player.
You need to come and meet me.
It was set it up with Lynn andmy friends at the time said what
was that?
I said I was Aussie.
He said he saw the show and hewants to meet.

(50:56):
He's gonna go to spirals.
There's a wine bar in Hampstead.
I Said okay.
So all right, let's go and seewhat happens, what's gonna
happen.
So we said we'll go over there,I don't know, trying to get our
shit together.
About 20, 25 minutes later thephone rings again and it's like
and it was like you, what a fuckare you?
I mean, there's fucking winebar, you know.

(51:21):
So I said oh, we gotta go, wegotta go, we gotta go.
So we went along and and I metwith arsy and talked with him
and out of that came theopportunity to go out and have a
Supposedly have a jam, have arehearsal with them, and then I
was very excited about it.
The next day I got a call fromSharon saying that she didn't
know what Ozzie had said to me.
But whatever it was, he wasprobably didn't mean anything,

(51:44):
he was probably drunk orwhatever, and forget about it.
I went oh, okay, so that wasthe end of it, that was the
start in the end of it, and itwasn't by pure chance, my friend
, phil Carlo, who I'd mentionedbefore, I went to visit him and
his wife and his kids.
They lived in Brighton and so Iwent down there for the weekend

(52:06):
and while I was down there wedecided to take a walk up and
down the pier up with anotherbeach, and we walk around, we go
past a shop it was a joke shop.
They have these joke shops inEngland, which is shops that
sell either magic tricks orstuff, or practical joke stuff
or, you know, stink bombs orsomething.
They have tons of them andBangs.
Some guy walks out the store,bang straight into me and it's

(52:27):
Ozzie, and and he says what areyou doing there?
I said I don't know.
Maybe I could ask you the samething.
I don't know, visiting Phil.
What are you doing here?
Oh, around the cornerrehearsing and I'm trying to
find a base player.
Why don't you come down?
I said because I've got a callfrom Sharon.
Tell me not to come down therebecause it wasn't.
Now we're still looking forsomebody, and he was with this
to a manager, jimmy Ayres, whoended up as deaf leopards to a

(52:50):
manager.
And so Jimmy says well, whydon't you go back to London and
pick up a base?
I'll tell you where we are,come down, have a play.
And I said, okay, well, as longas I don't get a call when I'm
in London, say Right.
So I went and got up, got mybase and brought it back down.
He gave me a tape of threesongs to learn and I came back

(53:13):
down, started playing and weplayed together for I don't know
About a couple of weeks duringthat the course of that time I
got the gig.
Yeah, so that's how thathappened and how did you pitch?

Speaker 1 (53:23):
How'd you pitch?
Shot in the dark to him.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
I didn't really.
I mean it was it was we had,that album, was already done,
was already pretty much sad.
We'd been in rehearsals forquite some time and then the
producer came down, the recordcompany came down, we moved our
rehearsals to London and andThen there was this thing that
they just didn't feel that therewas the right.

(53:45):
There was a single on there,and so they started throwing
ideas around of cover songs andAll different you know,
suggestions.
Everyone had a suggestion and Idon't think Ozzy was really
into a lot of those ideas either.
They weren't terrific ideas,uh-huh.
So it was really Reallydreadful.
They were born to be wild, it'slike really Anyway.

(54:08):
And so then they turn around toyou know, to ask the new guys,
to Randy and to myself, and saidhey, well, do you guys have any
songs?
Randy didn't really like songsand I said, yeah, I've got some
songs.
I have three songs I can playyou and.
And that was one of them andthey loved it.
And so we Set about changingsome sections.

(54:33):
Actually, ozzy did change oneof the sections.
It was the.
It was the beginning of thesolo that he changed.
He came up with that and wewanted to do something different
for the pre-chorus.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
When you wrote that, did you know it was going to be
a big, big hit like that?

Speaker 2 (54:49):
No, no, I didn't.
I mean I, you know, I wrote alot of stuff which you, you, you
kind of write things that areinfluenced by by other music.
As we said at the beginning ofthis conversation, it's just
something that I wrote.
I would.
We did do a version of it in inwildlife as well, but they
didn't like Parts of it.
They wanted to rewrite lyrics,so they rewrote the, the guys in

(55:13):
that band rewrote lyrics andand Then we never released
anything with it, and thenafterwards the version that I
did with Ozzy, as obviously it'sa different version.
That's the original version,the original idea, and but I
presented it to at least threeother bands really yeah, I think

(55:33):
it was the only one that bithuh Well.
I don't know about bit, I meanit.
They just, you know, decided itwas something we should, we
should do, and when we startedplaying it straight away, it was
pretty evident there wassomething cool going on.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
It's really cool.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
Going on it's one of my all-time favorite.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
Ozzy songs.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
Well, it was.
It's basically a part.
I mean basically a pop writer,I suppose that's my lot of my
influences come from, and so,you know, the influences for
that song were, were quiteunusual.
I mean one, the chordprogression.
So what were things that I waslistening to a lot at the time,

(56:11):
though I was hearing in music byAlgero, for example.
I was this I love that.
That album and those kind ofseventh chords.
The whole thing was written inthe beef.
I was written on a piano, so Iwrote that on piano wasn't a
guitar song, so which that'swhich is why it's such a bizarre
key.
Now Jake had to retune hisguitar to play it.
But, um, yeah, I mean thatthose are the kind of influences

(56:34):
that I was, you know, bringinginto rock and saying, well, this
is kind of different.
Yeah, people are using thesechords, people aren't doing that
kind of stuff, and so maybethis will be kind of cool.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
So a very, very crossover type of type of music.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
Yeah, yeah, but I still think that that's the
smartest thing to do.
Take it, you take a sort ofconcept of Song and he
translated into, or you adapt itfor a certain style, because a
good song is a good song.
I don't need to, you know, makethat case.
So many times you hear coversongs being done by bands that

(57:10):
are very unlikely.
Uh-huh and and it usually comesout great.
I mean it's like wow, that's areally cool interpretation of
that song.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
I don't know if you're familiar with this
Mongolian band called the who Hyou.
All they do is Mongolian throatsinging and they did a version
of a Metallica song.
Sad but true.
It's incredible, but you wouldnever expect Mongolian throat
singers to do Metallica.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
Mongolian throat.
I just like the way that says Iwould actually call the band
the Mongolian throat singers.
I think that sounds better thanwho that would be cool.

Speaker 1 (57:49):
And then one of my all-time favorite songs in is is
from John weight missing you ohgosh.
I love that song and in Johnyou and your bio with oh gotta
go.
John weights Colin, yeah,that's phenomenal, you just get
calls all the time from these.
I.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
Mean their friends obviously get special calls.
John weight is a special call.
I love John.
I have so much respect for himas a as a singer, as an artist,
as a musician, as a writer andand I'm you know, I'd be two
shows with him I was, I'm hisbiggest fan.
It was just incredible.
So much fun playing with Johnand yeah, missing you, with

(58:29):
that's all the songs.
I mean it's.
It's funny because if you walkaround CVS You're gonna hear at
least three John weight songs,so many hits.
It's just, it's just, you knowyeah, it's, it's so impressive.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
You know that I mean to to have one Big, big song but
then to continue that successand carry it on to you know, a
dozen, that's Not a lot ofpeople get that.
Not a lot of people get that.
Yeah yeah, well, hey, buddy, Iknow you've got some things.
You've got actually rehearsalcoming up real soon, because you
go out with last in line nextweek, yeah, and then We'll see

(59:09):
you in Texas in April and thenTulsa, oklahoma, two nights
later.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
Yeah, well, I'm doing that.
And then after this cruise I'mdoing the 80s cruise.
I'm playing the Sebastian Bach.
Oh Wow, cool.
Yes, yeah, he's asked me to dothat cruise with him and I said
I would.
We're friends and stuff.
I think it'll be fun.
So I'm actually going torehearsal with him this
afternoon and I Figure I shouldprobably run through the songs

(59:34):
at least once.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
Were you, were you friends with Sebastian and Vince
during the kind of wild days,the younger days, um?

Speaker 2 (59:41):
no, not really.
I mean I met.
I remember where I met him.
It was just the Bon Jovi showat the giant stadium because
they skid row was opening andthe first time I met him was
back then.
But since then we've actuallydone shared stages together.
You know, we did some runs withbig noise, we did a South
American run, we played inEastern Europe and Bulgaria and

(01:00:03):
Sebastian saying with us backthen Um, so you know, we, we do
things together here and there,and then, you know, he asked me
to do this show with him and Isaid, sure, why not?
You know it'll be fun.

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
We barely even touched upon everything that
you've done.
Do you ever there were justhave favorite stories that
you're you're so sick of sharing, though?
Like I mean, everybody asks youabout shot in the dark and
about Ozzy, and I remember yousaying in an interview that you
know, yeah, you get so sick ofplaying the hit, but it's what
people want to talk about.
People want to hear the hit.
Does it ever, you know, get oldtalking about some of these

(01:00:39):
stories?

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
No, and and I'm not somebody who gets real sick of
playing hits I really do respectthat.
People want to hear those songsand I think you know you, I'm
very, you know, honored by thatkind of stuff.
If it comes down to a song thatI had anything to do with, and
that applies to just not Justsongs I've written, but songs
that you know been responsiblefor Bringing to the, bringing to

(01:01:05):
the public in some form orfashion, but the stories, I mean
there's just a lot of stories,I mean the whole, the whole
thing about music, stories likethis and success.
We talked about success, is it?
It?
I never really got to a pointwhere I said, oh my gosh, I've
made it, because I never reallyfelt that.
I always felt that, you know, Idid this and then I did that

(01:01:26):
and then I did the other.
And then one day, somebody whosays something, and then you
sort of look back and it's aretrospective thing.
All of a sudden you see this,you know wealth of Experiences
behind you and realize how eachone has been a stepping stone to
the next thing.
But as a whole, as an aggregate, it's a huge thing.
It's a, it's a, it's a hugecareer, and then, all of a

(01:01:49):
sudden, maybe you look aroundand say, well, geez, I guess I,
maybe I have made it.
Really, think about it at thetime.
It's not something you see,it's not like an attainable
thing, it's not like a goal.
You say, oh, when I get to thispoint I will have made it.
It's more like one from momentyou stop and you look back and
then you realize what you'vedone and you, if you've kept
doing these things, it reallyamasses into some kind of big

(01:02:11):
career is your autobiography outalready.
No, it's not, I just finished.
Just finished writing it, andthen I'm in the process of
reading and rereading, andrereading.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Okay, but rereading and rereading and rereading,
because I remember in 2020,somebody asked you about it and
I'm we're.
Now we're four years later.
At what point is it finished?
It's like a song you couldalways continue when you're
banding it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
I'm back in 2020.
I was still in the midst ofwriting it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
I think I finished it Probably Mid last year.
Okay and since then I've justbeen going over it and and then
I have to figure out how to getit out, but it's pretty cool.
Well, I can't wait.
The reason it's I'm saying it'spretty cool is because it's not
a typical autobiography.
It's not like a gate, you knowa Biological series of events.

(01:03:02):
I did this idea that, which Ican't think of anything less
less interesting.
But what I tried to do is Itried to talk a little bit about
what was, what was theenvironment like, what was the
world like, what was going on,what was the climate that was
going on in music and some ofthese things, and I think for
that reason it's interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
Yeah, that would be a very, very cool project to read
that what's going on at thetime, and here's the music that
was being put out.
Then I mean, music is timeless,you know, and it does mark time
.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
Absolutely there's.
There's reasons why I mean what, why punk happened and what
punk meant, and I don't thinkthose reasons are here today.
I mean it was a different typeof but that generated a whole
type of music.
But we've been dealing with alot of.
I mean I write, still write alot of solo material.
I put solo songs out, and asong last time I put out was
called the world divided, likethat.

(01:03:50):
You can that, but you can guesswhat that's about.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
I, I certainly can.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
Yeah, the topic of conversation and everything
today, right, Absolutely yeah,everybody has.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Everybody has a side, and what bothers me about it?
It's just okay to have a side,but don't just credit the other
person's side just because youdon't agree with that.
That's not.
You can't learn that way, youcan't evolve that way.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
No, that's called the difference between free speech
and suppression.
It certainly is but the best ofthe best, new thought, new
ideas comes from an exchange ofContrarian ideas, doesn't it?

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
try and try and work that into a song and say April
fast on stage.
Contrarian indication.
Well, phil man, this has been apleasure.
It really has, and I'm so gladthat Jeff hooked us up.
And just Congratulations oneverything you've accomplished.
I know you're not done, socontinued success and everything
you do, bro.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
Thank you very much, kevin.
I'm my honor to be here, mypleasure.
It's really nice to to meet youthis way.
I look forward to be able tosee you somewhere close to where
you are.

Speaker 1 (01:04:50):
Maybe we can tip back a pint or something, oh.

Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
Oh, for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
Awesome buddy.
Well, hey, be safe and we'lltalk soon, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
Okay, thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
Thank you, phil, and that was cool.
I fanboyed so much, holy crap.
My thanks to Phil, susan forjoining me and also to my great
friend Merce for the suggestionand introduction, and thank you
for listening.
I appreciate it beyond wordswhen you share your time with
the fuzzy mic and feel free toshare the fuzzy mic with your

(01:05:18):
friends and family.
To stay connected with thefuzzy mic, you can follow me on
Instagram, facebook and Twitter,or you can send me an email at
the fuzzy mic at gmailcom.
For video, please subscribe tothe fuzzy mic YouTube channel.
The fuzzy mic is hosted andproduced by Kevin Klein.
Production elements by ZachSheesh at the radio farm.
Social media director is TrishKlein.

(01:05:39):
I'll be back next Tuesday witha new episode of the fuzzy mic
Guests still to be determinedand remember the world famous
Tuttle and Climb podcast withnew episodes every Wednesday.
So grateful for you.
See you next time, thank you.
That's it for the fuzzy mic.
Thank you, the fuzzy mic withKevin Klein.
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