The Dharma of Other People - Matthew Brensilver

Human connection brings an inherent amount of suffering with it, so how do we cultivate equanimity in interpersonal relationships?

In this talk, Matthew Brensilver reflects on the deep human need for belonging. Yet an unavoidable tension arises because no person or relationship can fully satisfy craving or end suffering. He explains that understanding this unsatisfactoriness helps us realistically approach relationships without expecting them to be perfect refuges.

Instead, we learn to welcome ambivalence, the coexistence of conflicting feelings like love and frustration, joy and grief, which naturally arises in all connections. This capacity to tolerate ambivalence is a sign of psychosocial maturity and is essential for developing equanimity—the balanced mind that neither clings to nor rejects experiences and emotions.

Matthew outlines several important points about equanimity in relational life:

• Equanimity involves opening the heart to the imperfections of others and ourselves, rather than controlling or suppressing difficult feelings.
• Interpersonal interactions act like a “stress test,” revealing our hidden mental habits (greed, hate, delusion) and opportunities for compassion.
• Compassion refined by equanimity becomes “love in the face of helplessness,” recognizing the limits of our ability to control or fix others’ suffering.
• Ambivalence is not always a symptom of confusion but sometimes a clear recognition of complexity; learning to live alongside it is a spiritual achievement.
• Emotional ups and downs, including anger and grief, often resist change because these states have a kind of inertia, requiring patience and mindfulness.
• The practice of equanimity supports forgiveness, especially when we face the pain and flaws of loved ones without defensiveness or control. Forgiveness can be thought of as the unofficial "Fifth Brahmavihara" because it flows naturally from the four states of loving-kindness, compassion, sympathetic joy, and equanimity

Ultimately, Matthew encourages embracing the vulnerability and uncertainty inherent in human relationships, using meditation and honest self-reflection to cultivate a steady, openhearted presence. This practice helps us stay with the discomfort of not knowing, being wrong, or feeling helpless—key conditions for genuine connection and compassionate love.

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Matthew Brensilver, MSW, PhD teaches retreats at the Insight Retreat Center, Spirit Rock and other Buddhist centers. He was previously program director for Mindful Schools and for more than a decade, was a core teacher at Against the Stream Buddhist Meditation Society.

Matthew worked as a clinical social worker, serving severely and persistently mentally ill adults and adolescents. He subsequently earned a PhD from the Dworak-Peck School of Social Work at USC where he was a Provost’s Fellow. His dissertation examined the mechanisms of risk and resilience in maltreated adolescents in a large, longitudinal study in South Los Angeles.

Before committing to teach meditation full-time, he spent years doing research on addiction pharmacotherapy at the UCLA Center for Behavioral and Addiction Medicine.

Each summer, he lectures at UCLA’s Mindful Awareness Research Center on the intersections between mindfulnes

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CREDITS
Audio Engineer: George Hubbard
Producer: Tom Bruein
Music/Logo/Artwork: Derek Lassiter