November 14, 2024 • 32 mins
On today’s episode, Erica talks with Gary Survis, an Operating Partner with Insight Partners. Erica and Gary discuss how the strongest CMOs limit risk when transitioning into new marketing leadership roles:
- They stand out by demonstrating credibility, collaboration, and curiosity. They're aware that what you don't say in an interview is just as important as what you do say.
- When interviewing, they communicate their experience with this structure: strategy + example + numbers.
- Once in the new CMO role, they realize that no matter what their background is, they have to deliver on their demand gen goals or risk losing their job.
- They have a perspective on AI and know how they will organize their teams and define roles differently for AI-supported marketing.
- They create a "flywheel of credibility."
- They take the time they need to form an assessment – "it'll be the only time in your tenure when you are afforded the luxury of time."
- They follow the "Diagnose, Don't Delude" approach – identifying and surfacing problems rather than sweeping problems under the rug.
- They swiftly make the org changes they need to make: "If you are not successful because the people below you are not strong, you have no one to blame but yourself for not making the changes you know you need to make."
00:00 Welcome to The Get: Season Overview
00:47 Introducing Gary Survis: Insights from an Operating Partner
01:37 De-risking the CMO Hiring Process
02:10 Common Pitfalls in Recruiting Marketing Leaders
05:01 Balancing Strategy and Execution in Marketing
11:00 Key Traits of Successful Marketing Leaders
13:19 The Importance of Curiosity in Leadership
17:15 AI in Marketing: What to Look for in a CMO
19:36 Early Steps for a New CMO
21:41 The Role of AI in Organizational Structure
22:34 Setting and Achieving Goals
24:25 Challenges in Coaching CMOs
26:53 Reflections on Past Marketing Roles
28:56 Marketing Under the CRO: A Controversial Trend
31:13 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
The Get is here to drive smart decisions around recruiting and leadership in B2B SaaS marketing. We explore the trends, tribulations, and triumphs of today’s top marketing leaders in B2B SaaS.
This season’s theme is The Race to Reduce Risk in CMO Recruiting.
The Get’s host is Erica Seidel, who runs The Connective Good, an executive search practice with a hyper-focus on recruiting CMOs and VPs of Marketing, especially in B2B SaaS.
If you are looking to hire a CMO or VP of Marketing of the ‘make money’ variety - rather than the ‘make it pretty’ variety, contact Erica at erica@theconnectivegood.com. You can also follow Erica on LinkedIn or sign up for her newsletter at TheConnectiveGood.com.
The Get is produced by the team at Simpler Media Productions.
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
>> Erica Seidel (00:05):
Hello and welcome to the get. I'm your host,
Erica Seidel. This season we
focus on the race to reduce risk when it comes to a
match between a company and a cmo.
How can you find out what you need to find out before
saying yes so that you make a match that
sticks? So far this season, we've heard from
several CMOs about how they reduce risk before
(00:27):
saying yes to a role. What's most critical for them to
find out? We've talked about the fears that
companies have, uh, as they embark on a CMO search.
And we've seen a model for how companies and CMO
candidates can collaboratively de risk before
joining forces. We've heard from current CMOs
as well as former CMOs who have gone on
(00:47):
to roles like CEO or Chief Commercial
officer or chief Revenue officer.
Today we'll hear from a former CMO who has been
immersed in hiring, uh, CMOs and enabling
them for more than eight years as an operating
partner at a top investment shop.
I'm happy to have Gary Service join me on the
(01:08):
show. Gary is an operating partner with Insight
Partners. He works across many different
portfolio companies, helping them with hiring marketing
leaders and with getting their go to market engines humming
and bringing in AI to drive impact
not just within marketing, but across the business.
He's in a great spot to recognize patterns across
(01:29):
marketing leaders and across SaaS companies.
He's also former CMO at Syncsort.
I first saw Gary speak at a pavilion event and thought,
ooh, I would love to have him as a guest on the
get.
Gary, welcome.
>> Gary Service (01:49):
Thank you. Thank you. Excited to be here.
>> Erica Seidel (01:51):
I'd like to talk with you about before
marketing leaders are hired and then once they are in
the seat, you know, first I will say that listeners on
this show, they either want to have a job like yours, so
many people want to be an operating partner in marketing,
or they want to get hired for a job
where you're involved in the recruiting
(02:12):
process and then you would be a coach for them. So I think your
perspectives are going to be great. You are there
to de risk a hire, and that's the whole theme
of this season, is de risking the CMO
recruiting process. So in your view, how
do recruiting processes for marketing leaders go
wrong in your experience?
>> Gary Service (02:31):
Well, I think the issue
for many of our portfolio
company leaders, I'm going to call
that the founder, CEO
leader, is
they will go into every
search with a very clear
idea of what they believe the
(02:53):
organization's deficiency is.
Now, sometimes that deficiency in
marketing is based on
a bias of who was ever in that
role previously. I often say
you can't hire your new
person with just a focus on what the
other person didn't do. Well, my example is
(03:15):
you had someone, they were always late to meetings and
that really bothered you. They're always late for meetings. So
gosh, we're going to make sure we hire
someone who absolutely
will not be late. And guess what? They are not late. But you know
what? They don't know how to spell you
so focused on that one thing that they didn't
do that you over rotate
(03:37):
in what the job requirement is.
That's where we can come in and have a
business level discussion based on experience, based on
what we're seeing, based on where that company is in
their growth arc and help right
size, what the requirements are, the
competencies are to help them put that in a good
rank order that not just reflects whatever the
(04:00):
CEO founder sees, but
also what we believe the business needs.
>> Erica Seidel (04:06):
Got it? Yeah. So this overcorrecting, do you find that the
overcorrecting is often for something interpersonal
or something like. That example you brought up was a little bit more
interpersonal. Has nothing to do with what's on somebody's
resume.
>> Gary Service (04:19):
It's a solid. It depends on that.
Sometimes a leader is just
annoyed about an interpersonal thing and
it overtakes them. But most
have a good EQ and understand
that they're looking for outcomes.
And most likely the issue
(04:39):
is the organization is not
delivering on particular outcomes
that they feel a change in marketing could
drive.
>> Erica Seidel (04:48):
Yeah, let me ask you this too. Sometimes
I found with my recruiting of CMOs that you have
a company where they're. To your
point, their previous marketing leader was not performing,
so the bar for them is almost laughably
low. Oh, we need events to be working better
or we just need leads, leads, lead.
(05:08):
When actually marketing could be providing a
lot more value to them. How do
you navigate that? Like uh, do you try to broaden their view
of what marketing can do? And I'm wondering like what you say to get them
to do that.
>> Gary Service (05:20):
Yeah, I think that's one of our highest value
adds as we engage with
these organizations. I
am lucky to work
in an organization with over 500
portfolio companies. My data
points, signal recognition and
(05:41):
really just understanding of the different combinations
and permutations of organizations
is my value add. And I am,
um, empowered to push back
where others may not against what a
CEO wants. If I've seen
this story before. So my job
is to use examples, you know,
(06:04):
anonymized of organizations that
may have been similar and what they chose to do, the
kind of leader they may have chosen for the
marketing function. Also, I think
there's a general
acceptance that marketing
definitely morphs as organizations grow
(06:24):
and what the need was when an organization was say,
sub $10 million is going to be different from
the journey from 10 to 20 and 20 to
50, et cetera. Again, bringing the
perspective of have you thought about what you might
need at this particular point in the
journey is another way to have the conversation.
I'll tell you what I don't do. What I don't
(06:46):
do is say this kind of person.
Our job is to have a conversation. Our
job is to give information. And by
the way, if the CEO founder says,
hey, I hear what you're saying, but I really want
this, I have to respect that. I
don't work at the company, I advise,
(07:06):
I give data points. I want you to make your
decisions with full information. And so there is
where my role lies.
>> Erica Seidel (07:13):
Do you find that founder led
companies take a longer or a shorter time
to hire a CMO than non
founder led companies?
>> Gary Service (07:24):
It depends. I think that
the more experienced the founder is and
you didn't say first time founder
versus multiple
company. I think there's a huge difference between the
first time founder knowing what they
want versus someone who's gone through this before
and seen what was successful for them. I think that's the
(07:46):
bigger determinant. Less so
about founder led versus professional
CEO. I also think there's
plenty of professional CEOs that bring in
baggage from um, previous
interactions that may not be
relevant for the company they're at. Um, the
easiest example of that is you work for a
(08:08):
Fortune 500 company at a certain scale
as a CEO now you're working at a mid sized company
with different resources, different challenges and you may
not fully transferred
your knowledge and therefore you're looking for someone in the
role which ultimately won't be successful because they won't have
the resources or they won't have the, the kind
(08:28):
of ecosystem that you were coming from.
>> Erica Seidel (08:31):
Yeah, this is so interesting, the whole, you
know, scale thing, but yet I've
also found that not every company's scale journey from say
50 million to a hundred million is the same, right?
>> Gary Service (08:43):
Absolutely not.
>> Erica Seidel (08:43):
It's all of this. It depends.
So any other thoughts on what risks
that leadership, uh, teams face when they recruit
CMOs? Are there other risks that come to mind that need to
be addressed?
>> Gary Service (08:55):
Yeah, I think there's always the risk
of
misinterpreting
what the organization should be
Focusing on. Let me give you an example. There's
always, as you know, this great
philosophical discussion of do I need
a uh, leader that came from product marketing or did I need a leader
(09:16):
who came from demand gen? And why would you choose
that person? Part of that is
what I like to simplify there. And I tell
every CMO I hire,
I'm not saying this is a threat, I'm saying this as
a reality. Deliver on your demand gen
goals or lose your job. Also we can
(09:37):
have a discussion about the beauty and majesty
of all the things that marketing needs to do to
deliver. But in
reality that sausage making
that the CEO and the board probably won't pay
attention to, all they will pay attention
to is what you deliver. I know
the equation is brand plus demand equals
(10:00):
growth. You need to build your brand, you need to
build a efficient, repeatable demand gen
engine and that drives growth.
The issue for many organizations is
over rotating one way or the other. We need a demand
genetic CMO and I'll say
maybe, but I prefer a
CMO who is more of a player
(10:22):
coach. In demand gen. They shouldn't be the
ones doing demand gen. They should be able to know what
questions to ask, to see around corners, to have
experience to get their demand gen team
do what they should do. Equally important
though they need to have good sense
of uh, what the M message and positioning
(10:42):
us to be from a strategic level. So you
need a strategic brain and a tactical
brain and I don't like to compromise on that.
>> Erica Seidel (10:51):
Yeah, it's interesting because so many companies say oh, what we really need
is leads, leads, leads or ideally they'll say qualified
demand or revenue. Ideally. But then sometimes there's a
conversation of well do you just need a director of demand
gen?
>> Gary Service (11:03):
Yep.
>> Erica Seidel (11:03):
Um, just is too strong of a word but you know what I mean
versus that strategery
that you get with somebody who can be that player coach. I
think that's really important.
Can you talk about a really strong B2B
SaaS marketing leadership candidate that interviewed with
you and a particular example of
that person. You don't have to say their name but what did that person do
(11:26):
to stand out?
>> Gary Service (11:27):
Yeah, so because similar to you,
you do a lot of interviews and
you have a
group of areas uh, of
inquiry that deliver
bits of knowledge along the way.
What I found in the candidates
(11:47):
that have stood out to me, there
are three things that
resonate. The first is
I always want someone
to speak in terms
of strategy and
example. I identified this
opportunity to build out product
(12:09):
marketing because we weren't onboarding our
customers well, that they needed more information about
our product. It's technical, awesome. But
then translate that into numbers and
examples after that. After we did that
and partnered with our CS team,
we saw uh, a 20% increase on
retention around that. I want to see the
(12:32):
connection between what you did and
the impact. Otherwise it
seems like you could be making it up for all I know. I want
to understand how it really works. That's credibility.
The second thing is, uh,
how they function in the
larger org. They will be part of a leadership
(12:53):
team. As I'm sure you know. It's
sometimes the things you don't say as much as the
things you do say. In this particular case,
the people that stand out are the ones that
are talking about their collaboration with their
sales partner or their
product partner in a way that isn't sort
of bolted on but is authentic to how
(13:16):
they collaborate. If I said to you I'm super
collaborative, well, that doesn't mean anything to
me unless you've been giving me examples all
throughout about how you are collaborating and
how you are working with the different folks. And so
first was credibility. Second is
collaboration. The third piece is
a bit harder. How curious you
(13:37):
are, how likely are to
explore you and I could have an existential
discussion about whether or not I need to
hire a cybersecurity marker for a
cybersecurity marketing job. My
thinking is I care about you as a
marketer, less so about your subject
matter expertise as a cybersecurity
(13:58):
marketer. Because if you've proven to
me, and this is to my third point,
curiosity. If you've proven to
me that you're curious, you're
capable of learning businesses and your track
record shows this. I've done this in this industry, this
industry and this industry. You're more valuable
to me than someone who just does cybersecurity
(14:20):
marketing. The organization has plenty of knowledge
in product teams, the CEO, all these
folks that can give you the knowledge of this
business, what to say to CISOs, what not to
say to CISOs. Listen to customers. If you're that
person, that is a differentiator to
me.
>> Erica Seidel (14:38):
That's great. So you have your three C's. And it's funny, the one about
collaboration and listening to see if
somebody has been talking along the way about a
collaboration with sales or product. Maybe you found this
too. I find that listening to the parentheses
helps a lot. In an interview, what somebody says
parenthetically really matters a lot. I
(14:58):
once interviewed this guy and he had talked
about doing a lot of ghost Writing for
the CEO. And I thought, God, how does that influence
your ego to put somebody else's name on it? And so I asked
him and he was like, no, it's fine. If I was in a band, I'd
be the bassist in the back, just thumping out the beat.
And that was the whole pillar of
him getting the job. Because in that moment that I, uh,
(15:21):
needed somebody who was going to be like that because the CEO was a
strong personality in the world and that was it. And it's
just so funny that it's like this parenthetical thing or to
your point, something that's not there.
>> Gary Service (15:32):
Parenthetically, I agree. And
again, I think there are many
people that are just incredible interviewers.
They're really strong interviewers. And you need to
be able to have other
tools to break through a solid
interviewer to understand the substance,
the reality of how they
(15:54):
work. I can't say just because someone
doesn't mention collaboration in their
responses that they're not collaborative, but they're more
likely not to be collaborative if they
don't.
>> Erica Seidel (16:06):
By contrast, is there somebody that flamed out
recently quite spectacularly that
sticks in your head?
>> Gary Service (16:13):
I'm sure you've heard the analogy. Hiring someone's
like dating. You know, the first date may be great,
second date may be good, but then on the third date
you understand something about them that's, ah, unexpected.
And you're like, nah, I'm not really sure. I think we're
constantly testing our
hypotheses and this is where back channel comes
(16:34):
in. The flame out isn't as much what
they did. It's us
leveraging our back channel. And our back channel is not
who the candidate gives to us. Obviously our back
channel is who we know, who knows
them. You can't do anything about that. That's
just part of the process.
>> Erica Seidel (16:53):
Fair.
And how about your favorite interview question?
Do you have one that you ask of people?
>> Gary Service (16:59):
My favorite interview question is actually
around the curiosity thing. I like to
ask people, tell me about something
either in your personal or
professional life that you've recently taught yourself.
If the answer is nothing, or
they haven't really invested in teaching themselves
(17:20):
anything, then, uh, it really
brings me to an idea of how curious you really are if
you're not teaching yourselves new skills all the time.
>> Erica Seidel (17:28):
Okay, I like that with that. I know that you
have this focus on AI within
marketing and across a business for efficiency and other
purposes. What are you looking for, if anything, with respect
to AI in a CMO candidate at this phase
of the AI Surge.
>> Gary Service (17:45):
So first of all, one thing I'm not looking for is someone who's done it
before because no one's done it before. It's hard to have experts
in this space because it's a very
muscle. They should have a
perspective. I insist on having a
perspective. That perspective could be,
I'm going to go slow for these
reasons. I'm going to focus in these
(18:07):
areas because I know that's where likely the impact
is. But sometimes I speak to people and they're
like, yeah, I haven't really got around to experimenting much with
AI thing. I know it's going to be important. They're
not probably the best candidate.
>> Erica Seidel (18:21):
Okay, I like that. So having like a strategic
perspective on it, but
being curious, it goes back to your three
C's a little bit too, right? Curious and collaborative.
Incredible.
>> Gary Service (18:33):
I think today the best
way to view AI in
marketing is be
ready for iteration.
Lots of going through and inventing and
reinventing because the
technology is leaping in
discontinuous jumps. So with
(18:55):
each new capability comes new
implications for marketing. You can also
be in a position that says, hey, I got
this ChatGPT thing, I'm set.
I think the other part,
and I forgot to mention this as well,
it's critical for me to see that someone
(19:15):
recognizes that AI is
as much a technical thing as a change
management thing. And if they're not signing up for
the change management to help
their teams through this,
then that is either you don't really understand
the implications or you're not a mature enough
manager to really drive, drive the kind
(19:37):
of impact that you should be by leveraging these
tools.
>> Erica Seidel (19:41):
Think about, okay, so now you've hired a cmo, they're in their new
role. What are the early things that
you think a new CMO should do
within your portfolio to get off on the right foot,
to limit risk right out of the gate?
>> Gary Service (19:54):
There are several places they can focus
that are important. The first
one is being honest
about the time they need
to form their
hypothesis or beliefs. We
default to 30, 60, 90 day
plans, which is fine, but that is not a
(20:17):
recipe for success. I'd rather you
tell me. I need 60 days
to talk to enough customers, do enough
internal work, travel around the world to understand
the differences so that you are making an
informed decision. I think this is the only
time in a new
CMO's tenure that they will
(20:40):
be afforded the luxury of
time. So if you say you need 60
days, take the 60 days.
That's number one. Number two, the org,
I expect that
the marketing leader that comes into place
is good at evaluating people,
(21:01):
understands how to structure an org
and whether they have the right people in the right
roles. The right people in the wrong roles
are just the wrong people. And
I expect a, uh, plan to move
quickly to do that
because a slow drip of this is bad.
Pull the band aid off, make the changes. Know what you
(21:23):
need to do. I, uh, say this to every
cmo, that
in the end, if you're not
successful because the people below you are not
strong, you have no one to blame but
yourself for not making the changes you know you need to
make. Take your time,
but make decisions pretty quickly
(21:44):
about what you need to do. I will add a little
AI bonus point on this. I'm
encouraging CMOs
today to think about whether
they want to create a BG or an AG
organization before generative or
after generative organization. If you
choose to do the BG organization, recognize
(22:07):
that the responsibilities are going to change, the roles
are going to change. Or are you going to try to
start moving your organization to the
way technology is going to change the
structure? For that reason, I encourage
them to do a little more forward thinking about
what people's roles are really going to be, where you're going to need.
Do you need five creative people? Do
(22:30):
you need as many writers? Do you
need more editors? What do you need? Based on
how this technology is moving, you should have a point of view.
The last thing I want to talk about
is goals. It is
critical for marketers to be
successful that they
(22:50):
put a stake in the sand of what they're going to
accomplish. They show progress against
it and then, God willing, actually
deliver on it. That is what
creates trust and confidence in the organization
about your leadership. If you don't feel
comfortable enough giving the goals and the numbers
and the specifics and showing progress regularly
(23:13):
against that, the board,
and in some cases co, but more likely the board, in the
absence of information, assumes nothing
is happening. So I'm, uh, making this
up. If you have an issue with the
pipeline, show me
how you're making progress on that. Show
(23:33):
me that you put a plan in place. This is where I
expected to be by Q4. Here's where we
are in Q3 and I believe we're going to hit it.
Or be honest and say, I'm not going to hit it. And here's
why. If you delude
people into thinking you got it and then surprise them,
um, that is the surest way to lose trust
(23:54):
and confidence.
>> Erica Seidel (23:55):
I like that. We'll call that diagnose.
Don't Delude. Because you're looking for somebody to diagnose
the issues and come up with the perspective of
how to fix them. That's great.
>> Gary Service (24:06):
Part about it is commit. That's the
piece that I would add to it is
diagnose, don't delude,
commit. It's that commit that gives
people confidence that you're willing to put your
name behind it, put your org behind it.
>> Erica Seidel (24:23):
And then it creates this kind of flywheel of credibility as
you do that.
>> Gary Service (24:26):
Yeah, that, uh, would be the goal.
>> Erica Seidel (24:29):
You offer coaching to various CMOs
across all the different companies. Is
there a piece of coaching that's hardest for people to put
into action? Where you said to yourself, I wish
I could get this
coaching into their brains and their actions
more easily.
>> Gary Service (24:48):
I'll start off by saying in that regard
that among people who want to be
operating partners, the hardest
transition if you're an
operator, is the fact that you aren't working in the
business, that you can't just go in there and do
it. Your job is influencing. Your
job is advising, but it's not
(25:11):
doing. And that's why some people
aspirationally want to be an operating
partner. But maybe that's just not
right for them. It becomes too frustrating. If
every portfolio company took all my advice,
that would be amazing. Never happens.
And there are a variety of reasons. Sometimes it's
(25:31):
skill, sometimes it's will, sometimes
it's that they're just having
a hard time driving impact. I'll, uh,
give an example. There are many examples of this, but
one that is common is
the organizations that were traditionally
doing volume velocity, kind of demand gen,
(25:52):
and then saying, I think we want to move up market, I
think we want to do more account based.
Account based is a says, easy does, hard
thing. It is, oh, yeah, I have a
list of accounts. We've had lists of accounts for eons.
That's not what makes account based. The
hard part of account based is
(26:12):
how you get marketing and sales working together, making sure
you have the right KPIs, figuring out which are the
tactics, planning it out in a longer form.
There's a lot of things that go into making account
based successful. I can do
sessions, we can do workshops, I can give you
frameworks, I can show you how to do it. I can give examples of
companies that have done it. I just can't do it. And some people
(26:34):
know how to take that information and action on
it, and others struggle.
>> Erica Seidel (26:39):
Well said. Right. A lot of people want to be operating
partners. They like the idea. They fancy themselves
showing the way and telling others what to do. But you have
to stand back a little bit. And, uh, that must be hard.
I feel like that's like an emotional maturity piece. That
must be a piece of it.
Two other questions for you. Can you think about back when
you were leading marketing in an
(27:00):
operating role like that sync sort, for
instance, what coaching now would you give
yourself before you took that job? Is there a
regret that you have looking back like, oh, okay, if
I had only known X or if I had only done Y,
I'd feel better about myself.
>> Gary Service (27:17):
What I like about that question is part of what
I tell people all the time, that if I were to go back
and be a cmo, I would be such a better CMO than
I was back then. That is partially
because if I said to
any candidate, how many companies have you worked
for? They'll say, I've worked for seven or eight or whatever
(27:38):
it might be. And I've learned these different things.
I meet with seven or eight companies every few days.
I am getting different
combinations of problems
and different issues and things
that you would think would go one way, go a different way.
And my reference base is just so
much bigger than it was when I was
(28:00):
there. I think what that, uh, would allow
me to do is be
much more realistic
about how I plan out
what we are doing. I'll tell you this awful
story. I remember we used serious
decisions back in the day before Forrester bought them
(28:20):
and used their benchmarks.
Not having any better benchmarks.
I committed to one of the serious decision
benchmarks that was there.
And the Gary of today would never do that. I
understand too well how benchmarks are put
together. I understand how I would
apply it or what I would do. It was just a
(28:43):
massive mistake doing it the way I did
it. And that's just one of many because I've made so many
mistakes in retrospect that I now
know so much more about that I would approach
it completely different.
>> Erica Seidel (28:56):
Fabulous. I appreciate that.
Last question for you. This is a little bit of a non sequitur,
but since I have you thoughts on marketing under the CRO,
there's a bit of this, I hate to say a trend. Some companies
are nestling marketing under the Chief Revenue Officer
and separating marketing out into its different component
parts. The product marketing goes under product. Others are
keeping it as a function under the
(29:18):
CEO. Thoughts on
when and where this is working and whether you
think this would be temporary? Any thoughts to
share?
>> Gary Service (29:28):
I think first you need to ask
the question, why is that
happening? The reason that is happening
is because marketing has lost the
confidence of the organization. The
leadership may or may not still be there and they
are, uh, saying, okay, we want to change this
because we weren't getting what we needed out
(29:51):
of marketing. Where are we seeing
when any of those combination of strategies
done work for more than a year or
two before they come back
to a more true it creates a whole new set of
problems. Going back to my
original comment, I have a bias against solving for the
problem that I had before and then I create a whole
(30:13):
set of new problems by what I've done. This is a
perfect example of that too.
Now messaging, uh, becomes fragmented
because product marketing is doing one thing
that is under product management now, but
that's not really helping your demand gen team. But sitting over
in another place and you
may have a CRO that is really only a
(30:36):
sales leader but now has marketing reporting to them so
they can't be the player coach. Every choice
has repercussions and implications
and if you are doing it, I would step
back and say, why are you doing
this and what are the issues there and
how could we solve it? And uh,
again, I know plenty of leaders have made
(30:58):
the choice to do that, but I've not seen it
work.
>> Erica Seidel (31:02):
Okay, yeah, I know it's a controversial
topic these days and I think the proof will be in the
pudding. One, two, three years down the pike here.
Awesome. I know that's a bit of a downer to end us
on, but I did want to get your take on that.
Thank you so much. We have covered so much ground. I feel like there's
so much good insight here and people are going to love
listening to this. So thank you. Thank you so much, Gary.
>> Gary Service (31:24):
Thank you for having me. This is fun. This is the easiest part of
my day.
>> Erica Seidel (31:29):
Wonderful. Okay. And yeah, you could just point people
to this podcast and say, oh, you don't have to meet with me, just listen
to this.
That was Gary, Service Marketing operating partner
at Insight Partners.
(31:49):
Stay tuned for the next episode of the get, coming in a
couple of weeks. Thanks for listening to the get.
I'm your host, Erica Seidel. The GET is here to
drive smart decisions around recruiting and leadership in
B2B SaaS marketing. We explore the trends,
tribulations and triumphs of today's top marketing
leaders in B2B SaaS. If you liked this
(32:09):
episode, please share it. For more about the get, visit
the Get Podcast.com to learn more
about my executive search practice which focuses on
recruiting the make money marketing leaders rather than
the make it pretty ones. Follow me on LinkedIn
or visit theconnectivegood.com the get is produced
by Evo Terra and the team at Simpler Media Productions.
Hello and welcome to the get. I'm your host,
Erica Seidel. This season we
focus on the race to reduce risk when it comes to a
match between a company and a cmo.
How can you find out what you need to find out before
saying yes so that you make a match that
sticks? So far this season, we've heard from
several CMOs about how they reduce risk before
(00:27):
saying yes to a role. What's most critical for them to
find out? We've talked about the fears that
companies have, uh, as they embark on a CMO search.
And we've seen a model for how companies and CMO
candidates can collaboratively de risk before
joining forces. We've heard from current CMOs
as well as former CMOs who have gone on
(00:47):
to roles like CEO or Chief Commercial
officer or chief Revenue officer.
Today we'll hear from a former CMO who has been
immersed in hiring, uh, CMOs and enabling
them for more than eight years as an operating
partner at a top investment shop.
I'm happy to have Gary Service join me on the
(01:08):
show. Gary is an operating partner with Insight
Partners. He works across many different
portfolio companies, helping them with hiring marketing
leaders and with getting their go to market engines humming
and bringing in AI to drive impact
not just within marketing, but across the business.
He's in a great spot to recognize patterns across
(01:29):
marketing leaders and across SaaS companies.
He's also former CMO at Syncsort.
I first saw Gary speak at a pavilion event and thought,
ooh, I would love to have him as a guest on the
get.
Gary, welcome.
>> Gary Service (01:49):
Thank you. Thank you. Excited to be here.
>> Erica Seidel (01:51):
I'd like to talk with you about before
marketing leaders are hired and then once they are in
the seat, you know, first I will say that listeners on
this show, they either want to have a job like yours, so
many people want to be an operating partner in marketing,
or they want to get hired for a job
where you're involved in the recruiting
(02:12):
process and then you would be a coach for them. So I think your
perspectives are going to be great. You are there
to de risk a hire, and that's the whole theme
of this season, is de risking the CMO
recruiting process. So in your view, how
do recruiting processes for marketing leaders go
wrong in your experience?
>> Gary Service (02:31):
Well, I think the issue
for many of our portfolio
company leaders, I'm going to call
that the founder, CEO
leader, is
they will go into every
search with a very clear
idea of what they believe the
(02:53):
organization's deficiency is.
Now, sometimes that deficiency in
marketing is based on
a bias of who was ever in that
role previously. I often say
you can't hire your new
person with just a focus on what the
other person didn't do. Well, my example is
(03:15):
you had someone, they were always late to meetings and
that really bothered you. They're always late for meetings. So
gosh, we're going to make sure we hire
someone who absolutely
will not be late. And guess what? They are not late. But you know
what? They don't know how to spell you
so focused on that one thing that they didn't
do that you over rotate
(03:37):
in what the job requirement is.
That's where we can come in and have a
business level discussion based on experience, based on
what we're seeing, based on where that company is in
their growth arc and help right
size, what the requirements are, the
competencies are to help them put that in a good
rank order that not just reflects whatever the
(04:00):
CEO founder sees, but
also what we believe the business needs.
>> Erica Seidel (04:06):
Got it? Yeah. So this overcorrecting, do you find that the
overcorrecting is often for something interpersonal
or something like. That example you brought up was a little bit more
interpersonal. Has nothing to do with what's on somebody's
resume.
>> Gary Service (04:19):
It's a solid. It depends on that.
Sometimes a leader is just
annoyed about an interpersonal thing and
it overtakes them. But most
have a good EQ and understand
that they're looking for outcomes.
And most likely the issue
(04:39):
is the organization is not
delivering on particular outcomes
that they feel a change in marketing could
drive.
>> Erica Seidel (04:48):
Yeah, let me ask you this too. Sometimes
I found with my recruiting of CMOs that you have
a company where they're. To your
point, their previous marketing leader was not performing,
so the bar for them is almost laughably
low. Oh, we need events to be working better
or we just need leads, leads, lead.
(05:08):
When actually marketing could be providing a
lot more value to them. How do
you navigate that? Like uh, do you try to broaden their view
of what marketing can do? And I'm wondering like what you say to get them
to do that.
>> Gary Service (05:20):
Yeah, I think that's one of our highest value
adds as we engage with
these organizations. I
am lucky to work
in an organization with over 500
portfolio companies. My data
points, signal recognition and
(05:41):
really just understanding of the different combinations
and permutations of organizations
is my value add. And I am,
um, empowered to push back
where others may not against what a
CEO wants. If I've seen
this story before. So my job
is to use examples, you know,
(06:04):
anonymized of organizations that
may have been similar and what they chose to do, the
kind of leader they may have chosen for the
marketing function. Also, I think
there's a general
acceptance that marketing
definitely morphs as organizations grow
(06:24):
and what the need was when an organization was say,
sub $10 million is going to be different from
the journey from 10 to 20 and 20 to
50, et cetera. Again, bringing the
perspective of have you thought about what you might
need at this particular point in the
journey is another way to have the conversation.
I'll tell you what I don't do. What I don't
(06:46):
do is say this kind of person.
Our job is to have a conversation. Our
job is to give information. And by
the way, if the CEO founder says,
hey, I hear what you're saying, but I really want
this, I have to respect that. I
don't work at the company, I advise,
(07:06):
I give data points. I want you to make your
decisions with full information. And so there is
where my role lies.
>> Erica Seidel (07:13):
Do you find that founder led
companies take a longer or a shorter time
to hire a CMO than non
founder led companies?
>> Gary Service (07:24):
It depends. I think that
the more experienced the founder is and
you didn't say first time founder
versus multiple
company. I think there's a huge difference between the
first time founder knowing what they
want versus someone who's gone through this before
and seen what was successful for them. I think that's the
(07:46):
bigger determinant. Less so
about founder led versus professional
CEO. I also think there's
plenty of professional CEOs that bring in
baggage from um, previous
interactions that may not be
relevant for the company they're at. Um, the
easiest example of that is you work for a
(08:08):
Fortune 500 company at a certain scale
as a CEO now you're working at a mid sized company
with different resources, different challenges and you may
not fully transferred
your knowledge and therefore you're looking for someone in the
role which ultimately won't be successful because they won't have
the resources or they won't have the, the kind
(08:28):
of ecosystem that you were coming from.
>> Erica Seidel (08:31):
Yeah, this is so interesting, the whole, you
know, scale thing, but yet I've
also found that not every company's scale journey from say
50 million to a hundred million is the same, right?
>> Gary Service (08:43):
Absolutely not.
>> Erica Seidel (08:43):
It's all of this. It depends.
So any other thoughts on what risks
that leadership, uh, teams face when they recruit
CMOs? Are there other risks that come to mind that need to
be addressed?
>> Gary Service (08:55):
Yeah, I think there's always the risk
of
misinterpreting
what the organization should be
Focusing on. Let me give you an example. There's
always, as you know, this great
philosophical discussion of do I need
a uh, leader that came from product marketing or did I need a leader
(09:16):
who came from demand gen? And why would you choose
that person? Part of that is
what I like to simplify there. And I tell
every CMO I hire,
I'm not saying this is a threat, I'm saying this as
a reality. Deliver on your demand gen
goals or lose your job. Also we can
(09:37):
have a discussion about the beauty and majesty
of all the things that marketing needs to do to
deliver. But in
reality that sausage making
that the CEO and the board probably won't pay
attention to, all they will pay attention
to is what you deliver. I know
the equation is brand plus demand equals
(10:00):
growth. You need to build your brand, you need to
build a efficient, repeatable demand gen
engine and that drives growth.
The issue for many organizations is
over rotating one way or the other. We need a demand
genetic CMO and I'll say
maybe, but I prefer a
CMO who is more of a player
(10:22):
coach. In demand gen. They shouldn't be the
ones doing demand gen. They should be able to know what
questions to ask, to see around corners, to have
experience to get their demand gen team
do what they should do. Equally important
though they need to have good sense
of uh, what the M message and positioning
(10:42):
us to be from a strategic level. So you
need a strategic brain and a tactical
brain and I don't like to compromise on that.
>> Erica Seidel (10:51):
Yeah, it's interesting because so many companies say oh, what we really need
is leads, leads, leads or ideally they'll say qualified
demand or revenue. Ideally. But then sometimes there's a
conversation of well do you just need a director of demand
gen?
>> Gary Service (11:03):
Yep.
>> Erica Seidel (11:03):
Um, just is too strong of a word but you know what I mean
versus that strategery
that you get with somebody who can be that player coach. I
think that's really important.
Can you talk about a really strong B2B
SaaS marketing leadership candidate that interviewed with
you and a particular example of
that person. You don't have to say their name but what did that person do
(11:26):
to stand out?
>> Gary Service (11:27):
Yeah, so because similar to you,
you do a lot of interviews and
you have a
group of areas uh, of
inquiry that deliver
bits of knowledge along the way.
What I found in the candidates
(11:47):
that have stood out to me, there
are three things that
resonate. The first is
I always want someone
to speak in terms
of strategy and
example. I identified this
opportunity to build out product
(12:09):
marketing because we weren't onboarding our
customers well, that they needed more information about
our product. It's technical, awesome. But
then translate that into numbers and
examples after that. After we did that
and partnered with our CS team,
we saw uh, a 20% increase on
retention around that. I want to see the
(12:32):
connection between what you did and
the impact. Otherwise it
seems like you could be making it up for all I know. I want
to understand how it really works. That's credibility.
The second thing is, uh,
how they function in the
larger org. They will be part of a leadership
(12:53):
team. As I'm sure you know. It's
sometimes the things you don't say as much as the
things you do say. In this particular case,
the people that stand out are the ones that
are talking about their collaboration with their
sales partner or their
product partner in a way that isn't sort
of bolted on but is authentic to how
(13:16):
they collaborate. If I said to you I'm super
collaborative, well, that doesn't mean anything to
me unless you've been giving me examples all
throughout about how you are collaborating and
how you are working with the different folks. And so
first was credibility. Second is
collaboration. The third piece is
a bit harder. How curious you
(13:37):
are, how likely are to
explore you and I could have an existential
discussion about whether or not I need to
hire a cybersecurity marker for a
cybersecurity marketing job. My
thinking is I care about you as a
marketer, less so about your subject
matter expertise as a cybersecurity
(13:58):
marketer. Because if you've proven to
me, and this is to my third point,
curiosity. If you've proven to
me that you're curious, you're
capable of learning businesses and your track
record shows this. I've done this in this industry, this
industry and this industry. You're more valuable
to me than someone who just does cybersecurity
(14:20):
marketing. The organization has plenty of knowledge
in product teams, the CEO, all these
folks that can give you the knowledge of this
business, what to say to CISOs, what not to
say to CISOs. Listen to customers. If you're that
person, that is a differentiator to
me.
>> Erica Seidel (14:38):
That's great. So you have your three C's. And it's funny, the one about
collaboration and listening to see if
somebody has been talking along the way about a
collaboration with sales or product. Maybe you found this
too. I find that listening to the parentheses
helps a lot. In an interview, what somebody says
parenthetically really matters a lot. I
(14:58):
once interviewed this guy and he had talked
about doing a lot of ghost Writing for
the CEO. And I thought, God, how does that influence
your ego to put somebody else's name on it? And so I asked
him and he was like, no, it's fine. If I was in a band, I'd
be the bassist in the back, just thumping out the beat.
And that was the whole pillar of
him getting the job. Because in that moment that I, uh,
(15:21):
needed somebody who was going to be like that because the CEO was a
strong personality in the world and that was it. And it's
just so funny that it's like this parenthetical thing or to
your point, something that's not there.
>> Gary Service (15:32):
Parenthetically, I agree. And
again, I think there are many
people that are just incredible interviewers.
They're really strong interviewers. And you need to
be able to have other
tools to break through a solid
interviewer to understand the substance,
the reality of how they
(15:54):
work. I can't say just because someone
doesn't mention collaboration in their
responses that they're not collaborative, but they're more
likely not to be collaborative if they
don't.
>> Erica Seidel (16:06):
By contrast, is there somebody that flamed out
recently quite spectacularly that
sticks in your head?
>> Gary Service (16:13):
I'm sure you've heard the analogy. Hiring someone's
like dating. You know, the first date may be great,
second date may be good, but then on the third date
you understand something about them that's, ah, unexpected.
And you're like, nah, I'm not really sure. I think we're
constantly testing our
hypotheses and this is where back channel comes
(16:34):
in. The flame out isn't as much what
they did. It's us
leveraging our back channel. And our back channel is not
who the candidate gives to us. Obviously our back
channel is who we know, who knows
them. You can't do anything about that. That's
just part of the process.
>> Erica Seidel (16:53):
Fair.
And how about your favorite interview question?
Do you have one that you ask of people?
>> Gary Service (16:59):
My favorite interview question is actually
around the curiosity thing. I like to
ask people, tell me about something
either in your personal or
professional life that you've recently taught yourself.
If the answer is nothing, or
they haven't really invested in teaching themselves
(17:20):
anything, then, uh, it really
brings me to an idea of how curious you really are if
you're not teaching yourselves new skills all the time.
>> Erica Seidel (17:28):
Okay, I like that with that. I know that you
have this focus on AI within
marketing and across a business for efficiency and other
purposes. What are you looking for, if anything, with respect
to AI in a CMO candidate at this phase
of the AI Surge.
>> Gary Service (17:45):
So first of all, one thing I'm not looking for is someone who's done it
before because no one's done it before. It's hard to have experts
in this space because it's a very
muscle. They should have a
perspective. I insist on having a
perspective. That perspective could be,
I'm going to go slow for these
reasons. I'm going to focus in these
(18:07):
areas because I know that's where likely the impact
is. But sometimes I speak to people and they're
like, yeah, I haven't really got around to experimenting much with
AI thing. I know it's going to be important. They're
not probably the best candidate.
>> Erica Seidel (18:21):
Okay, I like that. So having like a strategic
perspective on it, but
being curious, it goes back to your three
C's a little bit too, right? Curious and collaborative.
Incredible.
>> Gary Service (18:33):
I think today the best
way to view AI in
marketing is be
ready for iteration.
Lots of going through and inventing and
reinventing because the
technology is leaping in
discontinuous jumps. So with
(18:55):
each new capability comes new
implications for marketing. You can also
be in a position that says, hey, I got
this ChatGPT thing, I'm set.
I think the other part,
and I forgot to mention this as well,
it's critical for me to see that someone
(19:15):
recognizes that AI is
as much a technical thing as a change
management thing. And if they're not signing up for
the change management to help
their teams through this,
then that is either you don't really understand
the implications or you're not a mature enough
manager to really drive, drive the kind
(19:37):
of impact that you should be by leveraging these
tools.
>> Erica Seidel (19:41):
Think about, okay, so now you've hired a cmo, they're in their new
role. What are the early things that
you think a new CMO should do
within your portfolio to get off on the right foot,
to limit risk right out of the gate?
>> Gary Service (19:54):
There are several places they can focus
that are important. The first
one is being honest
about the time they need
to form their
hypothesis or beliefs. We
default to 30, 60, 90 day
plans, which is fine, but that is not a
(20:17):
recipe for success. I'd rather you
tell me. I need 60 days
to talk to enough customers, do enough
internal work, travel around the world to understand
the differences so that you are making an
informed decision. I think this is the only
time in a new
CMO's tenure that they will
(20:40):
be afforded the luxury of
time. So if you say you need 60
days, take the 60 days.
That's number one. Number two, the org,
I expect that
the marketing leader that comes into place
is good at evaluating people,
(21:01):
understands how to structure an org
and whether they have the right people in the right
roles. The right people in the wrong roles
are just the wrong people. And
I expect a, uh, plan to move
quickly to do that
because a slow drip of this is bad.
Pull the band aid off, make the changes. Know what you
(21:23):
need to do. I, uh, say this to every
cmo, that
in the end, if you're not
successful because the people below you are not
strong, you have no one to blame but
yourself for not making the changes you know you need to
make. Take your time,
but make decisions pretty quickly
(21:44):
about what you need to do. I will add a little
AI bonus point on this. I'm
encouraging CMOs
today to think about whether
they want to create a BG or an AG
organization before generative or
after generative organization. If you
choose to do the BG organization, recognize
(22:07):
that the responsibilities are going to change, the roles
are going to change. Or are you going to try to
start moving your organization to the
way technology is going to change the
structure? For that reason, I encourage
them to do a little more forward thinking about
what people's roles are really going to be, where you're going to need.
Do you need five creative people? Do
(22:30):
you need as many writers? Do you
need more editors? What do you need? Based on
how this technology is moving, you should have a point of view.
The last thing I want to talk about
is goals. It is
critical for marketers to be
successful that they
(22:50):
put a stake in the sand of what they're going to
accomplish. They show progress against
it and then, God willing, actually
deliver on it. That is what
creates trust and confidence in the organization
about your leadership. If you don't feel
comfortable enough giving the goals and the numbers
and the specifics and showing progress regularly
(23:13):
against that, the board,
and in some cases co, but more likely the board, in the
absence of information, assumes nothing
is happening. So I'm, uh, making this
up. If you have an issue with the
pipeline, show me
how you're making progress on that. Show
(23:33):
me that you put a plan in place. This is where I
expected to be by Q4. Here's where we
are in Q3 and I believe we're going to hit it.
Or be honest and say, I'm not going to hit it. And here's
why. If you delude
people into thinking you got it and then surprise them,
um, that is the surest way to lose trust
(23:54):
and confidence.
>> Erica Seidel (23:55):
I like that. We'll call that diagnose.
Don't Delude. Because you're looking for somebody to diagnose
the issues and come up with the perspective of
how to fix them. That's great.
>> Gary Service (24:06):
Part about it is commit. That's the
piece that I would add to it is
diagnose, don't delude,
commit. It's that commit that gives
people confidence that you're willing to put your
name behind it, put your org behind it.
>> Erica Seidel (24:23):
And then it creates this kind of flywheel of credibility as
you do that.
>> Gary Service (24:26):
Yeah, that, uh, would be the goal.
>> Erica Seidel (24:29):
You offer coaching to various CMOs
across all the different companies. Is
there a piece of coaching that's hardest for people to put
into action? Where you said to yourself, I wish
I could get this
coaching into their brains and their actions
more easily.
>> Gary Service (24:48):
I'll start off by saying in that regard
that among people who want to be
operating partners, the hardest
transition if you're an
operator, is the fact that you aren't working in the
business, that you can't just go in there and do
it. Your job is influencing. Your
job is advising, but it's not
(25:11):
doing. And that's why some people
aspirationally want to be an operating
partner. But maybe that's just not
right for them. It becomes too frustrating. If
every portfolio company took all my advice,
that would be amazing. Never happens.
And there are a variety of reasons. Sometimes it's
(25:31):
skill, sometimes it's will, sometimes
it's that they're just having
a hard time driving impact. I'll, uh,
give an example. There are many examples of this, but
one that is common is
the organizations that were traditionally
doing volume velocity, kind of demand gen,
(25:52):
and then saying, I think we want to move up market, I
think we want to do more account based.
Account based is a says, easy does, hard
thing. It is, oh, yeah, I have a
list of accounts. We've had lists of accounts for eons.
That's not what makes account based. The
hard part of account based is
(26:12):
how you get marketing and sales working together, making sure
you have the right KPIs, figuring out which are the
tactics, planning it out in a longer form.
There's a lot of things that go into making account
based successful. I can do
sessions, we can do workshops, I can give you
frameworks, I can show you how to do it. I can give examples of
companies that have done it. I just can't do it. And some people
(26:34):
know how to take that information and action on
it, and others struggle.
>> Erica Seidel (26:39):
Well said. Right. A lot of people want to be operating
partners. They like the idea. They fancy themselves
showing the way and telling others what to do. But you have
to stand back a little bit. And, uh, that must be hard.
I feel like that's like an emotional maturity piece. That
must be a piece of it.
Two other questions for you. Can you think about back when
you were leading marketing in an
(27:00):
operating role like that sync sort, for
instance, what coaching now would you give
yourself before you took that job? Is there a
regret that you have looking back like, oh, okay, if
I had only known X or if I had only done Y,
I'd feel better about myself.
>> Gary Service (27:17):
What I like about that question is part of what
I tell people all the time, that if I were to go back
and be a cmo, I would be such a better CMO than
I was back then. That is partially
because if I said to
any candidate, how many companies have you worked
for? They'll say, I've worked for seven or eight or whatever
(27:38):
it might be. And I've learned these different things.
I meet with seven or eight companies every few days.
I am getting different
combinations of problems
and different issues and things
that you would think would go one way, go a different way.
And my reference base is just so
much bigger than it was when I was
(28:00):
there. I think what that, uh, would allow
me to do is be
much more realistic
about how I plan out
what we are doing. I'll tell you this awful
story. I remember we used serious
decisions back in the day before Forrester bought them
(28:20):
and used their benchmarks.
Not having any better benchmarks.
I committed to one of the serious decision
benchmarks that was there.
And the Gary of today would never do that. I
understand too well how benchmarks are put
together. I understand how I would
apply it or what I would do. It was just a
(28:43):
massive mistake doing it the way I did
it. And that's just one of many because I've made so many
mistakes in retrospect that I now
know so much more about that I would approach
it completely different.
>> Erica Seidel (28:56):
Fabulous. I appreciate that.
Last question for you. This is a little bit of a non sequitur,
but since I have you thoughts on marketing under the CRO,
there's a bit of this, I hate to say a trend. Some companies
are nestling marketing under the Chief Revenue Officer
and separating marketing out into its different component
parts. The product marketing goes under product. Others are
keeping it as a function under the
(29:18):
CEO. Thoughts on
when and where this is working and whether you
think this would be temporary? Any thoughts to
share?
>> Gary Service (29:28):
I think first you need to ask
the question, why is that
happening? The reason that is happening
is because marketing has lost the
confidence of the organization. The
leadership may or may not still be there and they
are, uh, saying, okay, we want to change this
because we weren't getting what we needed out
(29:51):
of marketing. Where are we seeing
when any of those combination of strategies
done work for more than a year or
two before they come back
to a more true it creates a whole new set of
problems. Going back to my
original comment, I have a bias against solving for the
problem that I had before and then I create a whole
(30:13):
set of new problems by what I've done. This is a
perfect example of that too.
Now messaging, uh, becomes fragmented
because product marketing is doing one thing
that is under product management now, but
that's not really helping your demand gen team. But sitting over
in another place and you
may have a CRO that is really only a
(30:36):
sales leader but now has marketing reporting to them so
they can't be the player coach. Every choice
has repercussions and implications
and if you are doing it, I would step
back and say, why are you doing
this and what are the issues there and
how could we solve it? And uh,
again, I know plenty of leaders have made
(30:58):
the choice to do that, but I've not seen it
work.
>> Erica Seidel (31:02):
Okay, yeah, I know it's a controversial
topic these days and I think the proof will be in the
pudding. One, two, three years down the pike here.
Awesome. I know that's a bit of a downer to end us
on, but I did want to get your take on that.
Thank you so much. We have covered so much ground. I feel like there's
so much good insight here and people are going to love
listening to this. So thank you. Thank you so much, Gary.
>> Gary Service (31:24):
Thank you for having me. This is fun. This is the easiest part of
my day.
>> Erica Seidel (31:29):
Wonderful. Okay. And yeah, you could just point people
to this podcast and say, oh, you don't have to meet with me, just listen
to this.
That was Gary, Service Marketing operating partner
at Insight Partners.
(31:49):
Stay tuned for the next episode of the get, coming in a
couple of weeks. Thanks for listening to the get.
I'm your host, Erica Seidel. The GET is here to
drive smart decisions around recruiting and leadership in
B2B SaaS marketing. We explore the trends,
tribulations and triumphs of today's top marketing
leaders in B2B SaaS. If you liked this
(32:09):
episode, please share it. For more about the get, visit
the Get Podcast.com to learn more
about my executive search practice which focuses on
recruiting the make money marketing leaders rather than
the make it pretty ones. Follow me on LinkedIn
or visit theconnectivegood.com the get is produced
by Evo Terra and the team at Simpler Media Productions.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.