February 25, 2025 • 44 mins
On this episode of The Get Ready Money Podcast, I was joined by Cameron Huddleston, author and Director of Education at Carefull; Pam Ostrowski, Dementia Caregiving Speaker, Consultant and Author; and Ruschelle Khanna, author and fractional learning officer to talk about Mom and Dad, What’s the Plan?
Here are some key insights:
- Conversations need to happen sooner, rather than later - not in an emergency
- Come from a place of collaboration
- Emotions have to be dealt with first, the conversation has to be normalized
- How to start the conversation, even with someone who doesn’t want to have it.
- We need to communicate to protect our needs and dignity.
Cameron Huddleston is the author of "Mom and Dad, We Need to Talk: How to Have Essential Conversations With Your Parents About Their Finances." She is an award-winning journalist who has been writing about personal finance for more than 20 years. She also was a caregiver for more than 12 years for her mom, who had Alzheimer's disease. Cameron is currently the director of education and content at Carefull, the first service built to organize and protect the daily finances of older adults.
Pam Ostrowski, CSA, CDP, CDC is a Dementia Caregiving Speaker, Consultant and Author of "It's Not That Simple: Helping Families Navigate the Alzheimer's Journey,". Dementia caregiving coach and guide, Pam Ostrowski, provides a path to relieve the fear, anxiety, and confusion that family members experience when a loved one is diagnosed with dementia. Pam is the founder of Alzheimer’s Family Consulting. She is also the author of the highly rated Alzheimer’s guidebook, "It's Not That Simple: Helping Families Navigate the Alzheimer's Journey," which is based on Pam’s 14-year dementia and Alzheimer’s journey with her parents. She works with organizations such as financial advisors and long-term care professionals to educate them on the need for more client conversations on aging well and planning for possible later-in-life cognitive impairment.
Ruschelle Khanna, LCSW is an Advisor and Therapist for High Net Worth Females & Families. Ruschelle specializes in helping leaders and teams develop high EQ skills to effectively blend strategic thinking, creative problem solving and effective communication. She serves as a Fractional Learning Officer for families in enterprise. Ruschelle is a Gottmann Method Facilitator. She was formerly the Clinical Director at Samaritan Daytop Village.
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Connect with Ruschelle Khanna:
The Get Ready Money Podcast and its guests do not provide investment advice. All content is for educational purposes. Guest opinions do not necessarily reflect th
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Are you looking to get ready, be prepared and
transform your financial future?
Then you've come to the rightplace.
This is the Get Ready MoneyPodcast with Tony Stewart, where
Tony has insightfulconversations with financial
experts who are changing the waywe think about money.
Catch up on the latestfinancial trends and hear
(00:27):
practical advice from Tony andhis expert guests so you can
build healthy habits that work,Be empowered with tips for
implementing small changes thatcan have a big impact on your
financial future.
So sit back and get ready tohear from today's guest.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Welcome to the Get Ready Money podcast, changing
the way we think about money.
I'm pleased to be joined todayby Cameron Hedleston, pam
Ostrowski and Rochelle Kanna.
In this episode, we'll bediscussing mom and dad what's
the plan?
Welcome everyone to the GetReady Money podcast.
Thanks for being here today.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Thank you, donnie, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Excited to get into this conversation.
So you know, let's start offwith a little bit of a quick
round of introductions, a littlebit about you, your origin
story and your connection tolater in life planning and
communication.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Pam, you want to kick off?
Sure, I'd be happy to.
First of all, thanks for theopportunity and hello listeners,
because it is so important thatyou're here today.
We actually I have a companycalled Alzheimer's Family
Consulting, and it's all basedon my 14 year journey with my
parents, who had the best plan,tony it was they're going to die
(01:50):
in their sleep, they own theircondo and they were going to
live there forever MedicareTricare for life.
We're going to take care of allof their medical expenses and
any military support that dadand her mom needed, and, you
know, basically they were goingto live happily ever after until
they passed.
What happened was mom gotdementia and had it for 14 years
(02:12):
before she passed.
Dad had vascular dementiatowards the end, and so we had
to have this financialconversation.
Well, we started it when I was16, actually because my parents
were planners but the wholestory changed in 2001 when mom
started showing signs ofdementia.
So that's kind of my story, andmy passion is having the right
(02:36):
documents in place, havingtalking about money, because you
know, with the statistics theway they are, it's not given
that everyone will get dementiaby any means.
However, brain health is soimportant and you know, we need
to have the money plan to makesure that if we do need
assistance in home care, forinstance, that we have the
(02:58):
financial means to do it, ratherthan being a financial burden
to our families and and others.
So that's my background.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
That's awesome, rochelle.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Sure, yeah, so I am a psychotherapist of over 20
years and I've kind of worked inthe realm of family transitions
and death and loss andsuccession planning, as I've
worked with high net worthfamilies as well, and when I
stepped into that I realizedthat my family experience was
(03:36):
very different from a lot ofother families because my family
also were planners.
Dad had a plan.
Dad was an old dad.
He was in his 40s when he hadme and my sister and so he was
always very aware of hismortality and he wanted us to be
prepared.
So he was very meticulous aboutmaking sure that we had
(04:01):
conversations and that thosewere normalized.
So when I stepped into workingwith families, I realized that
that is not the norm.
So my word of the day isnormalized.
So let's kind of normalize thefact that we will age and
transition and eventually dieand that we need a solid plan
(04:23):
for that.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
Cameron not die and that we we need a solid plan for
that.
Cameron hi, tony hi, rochellehi, pam hi, everyone who's
listening.
I, um, I am a long timepersonal finance journalist.
I wrote a book called mom anddad.
We need to talk how to haveessential conversations with
your parents about theirfinances.
And I was a caregiver for 12years for my mom who had
(04:49):
Alzheimer's disease Rochelle.
My dad did not plan, eventhough he was an attorney.
He died at the age of 61without a will in a second
marriage, so that threw all ofus for a loop.
And then a few years later, mymom was diagnosed with
(05:09):
Alzheimer's disease.
Again, there was no plan there,and it wasn't necessarily for a
lack of planning.
I had had a conversation withher before she was diagnosed
about looking into long-termcare insurance, but she couldn't
get it because of anotherpre-existing condition that she
had that made her too high risk.
But I dropped the ball.
(05:30):
I didn't realize that was theperfect opportunity to have a
conversation with her about whatsort of care she would want,
how she would pay for that care,and to discuss her finances.
It wasn't until I startedgetting involved that those
conversations happened andthat's what prompted me to write
a book is to warn people.
These conversations can't waituntil there's a health emergency
(05:54):
, because at that point it canbe too late.
So I'm really, I'm reallyexcited that we're talking about
this today.
I'm so passionate about thistopic and I'm really excited to
hear what you, pam, and what you, rochelle, have to say.
I think this is going to begreat.
Gosh that's great, and I love.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
You know I'm already taking notes of, you know,
highlights of what you all havesaid.
Brain health is so important.
We need to normalize fact andwe can't wait on these
conversations.
You know, I mean just there wehave.
You know, we could probablytalk for the next half hour, but
you know, let's back up alittle bit and talk for people
you know about the importance.
Let's go a little bit deeper onthat.
(06:33):
Why is it important to have aconversation from both the
perspective of the parent andthe adult child?
Because everybody is comingfrom a really different place.
Rochelle, you want to kick inon this?
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Sure.
So my take on why it'simportant is kind of comes from
the perspective of nonviolentcommunication.
So in the theory of nonviolentcommunication we all have these
universal needs and those needsare respect and understanding
(07:09):
and empathy and freedom and allthe things that come up at the
at the end of life.
You know, mom and dad don'twant to lose their, they don't
want to lose their maybe role atwork, they don't want to lose
their home.
So freedom is a big one meaningin your life.
So if we don't communicate thenwe can't protect these
(07:31):
universal human needs that weall have for, for dignity and
respect at the end of life.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
And I think the other aspect of that is run into
because I do dementia careconsulting.
So I will meet with a child whosays adult child who says mom
doesn't, mom doesn't want totalk about it, Dad doesn't want
to talk about it.
And it can be a cultural reason, or it can be our businesses,
(08:00):
our business, kids, you don'tneed to know what our business
is.
And it's like, well, yeah, Ikind of do, because who's your
backup?
We are, you know, we the adultchildren are.
And then I have parents this,this one shocked me Parents who
say, okay, kids, we need to havethis conversation.
No, no, no, You're going tolive forever.
And it's like, okay, no, you'renot.
(08:28):
But but they, the adult children, don't want to have the
conversation because they're soentwined with the parents' lives
and to even think about losingthat individual is so
heartbreaking and it's like, allright, we need to work through
those emotions, guys, becausethese are conversations.
I totally agree with you,Michelle, and with you, Cameron,
about these.
Conversations have to be hadand I'm so glad that we're doing
(08:51):
this to try to get that messageout to both adult children and
to parents, the older loved ones, to have this conversation,
Because resisting it doesn'tmake it go away.
You know, burying your head inthe sand doesn't help in the
long term.
As a matter of fact, it's abigger burden and a lot more
(09:12):
stress, a lot more expensive anda lot scarier when you don't
have a plan.
Speaker 5 (09:19):
I would agree with what they both said 100%, and I
would add that one of the bigbenefits of having these
conversations sooner rather thanlater is ensuring that
essential legal documents are inplace so that the parent has
named an adult child, anothertrusted family member, as their
(09:45):
agent under power attorney, tomake financial decisions for
them if they can't.
To name someone as the healthcare surrogate to make medical
decisions for them if they can't.
To make sure they have somesort of will or trust that
spells out who gets what whenthey die an advance directive,
that?
Or living will that says whatsort of end-of-life medical care
they do or do not want.
(10:06):
And this is for the parents.
This is about control.
You want to make thesedecisions.
You want to decide who's makingfinancial and medical decisions
for you.
If you can't, while you'restill healthy and competent, to
make those decisions, if thesedocuments aren't in place, then
(10:28):
something happens Family memberor friend is going to have to go
to court, essentially put youon trial to prove that you are
no longer competent to manageyour affairs, to manage your
health care, and you're going tohave to.
You know that person's going tohave to be named your
conservator guardian.
That costs money, it tearsfamilies apart and that can be
(10:52):
avoided with some planning.
You know, and I know, even ifyou don't end up needing any
sort of long-term care andsomeone doesn't have to help
manage your finances for you tomake health care decisions,
we're all going to die.
We cannot escape that.
And I know plenty of families.
They don't have wills and theythink, well, my kids get along,
they're going to work it out.
(11:13):
And that's often not the case.
Once money comes into play,people get greedy.
People will fight over thesmallest things.
And if you've got those wishesin writing, then that's going to
reduce those fights.
It doesn't eliminate thementirely.
I mean, there are some familieswhere, even if there's a will,
(11:35):
a trust, people are still goingto fight it, you know, because
they think they deserve morethan their brother or sister.
But for the most part, if thereis something in writing, it
will reduce the fighting, reducethe cost and it just makes it
easier for your children.
It's like a gift to them.
They're grieving and they don'twant to have to make those
decisions and so if you've madeit for them, then they can just
(11:59):
simply honor your wishes and Ithink that's so important your
wishes and I think I thinkthat's so important.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Well said, cameron.
I, I, you know it's one ofthose things where, sitting on
the other side, I I'm.
First of all, I'm grateful,much like Rochelle, that I had
older parents who were planners.
But I want my clients' familiesare all the time saying, well,
my sister doesn't want to dothis, or my other brother
doesn't want to do that, or youhave to get five siblings
together in order to have theconversation.
(12:29):
Then there's disgruntlement andone thing that you mentioned
about the healthcare power ofattorney, a durable power of
attorney.
I always advise that you havenamed two people, because it
could be that the first one sayseither something happens to
them or they're in a situationwhere they can no longer act as
primary.
Then your secondary can show upand and fill that that that
(12:52):
void.
So yeah, I love what you saidabout getting all those things
in line.
We in the majority of the ofAmericans don't have them in
place, which is scary, and Ithink this is.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
This is I'm sorry.
Go ahead, tony.
Oh no, no, I was just going tosay.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
You know, just to reiterate a couple things that
you both said is one the planhas to be in writing.
Two, you have to tell peoplethat the plan exists and you
have to have a contingent plan.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
You know, those are just such important points,
contingent plan, you know, thoseare just such important points
and I was just going to add ifyou if you the listener or some
are an aware family memberknowing that denial is not the
best approach to you, knowtransitions in your family, then
(13:45):
sometimes it's really helpfulto bring in a third party or set
up a family meeting and startthat conversation trying to
break down the denial and therest of the family system,
because that's really the.
I also just wrote a book aboutinherited trauma and money and
the reason why I wrote the book.
(14:06):
Well, first of all, I didn'tknow how this was going to work,
because the book was forfamilies who are in denial and I
was like, well, okay, nobody'sgoing to buy this book, because
if you're in denial, you're notlooking for a resource like this
.
So it's really the one catalystfamily member who is aware who
can come in and change thesystem.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
It's funny that you say that, because my book is
actually we need to package themtogether and sell them Because
mine's called.
It's Not that Simple Helpingfamilies navigate the
Alzheimer's journey.
This isn't simple.
We're not saying it's simple,we're saying that you have to,
and I love the idea of the thirdparty coming in, because we
(14:51):
have objective opinions andobjective experience that allows
us to facilitate and take thebite out of some of those family
dynamics.
So another great point yeah, Ilove that bringing in a third
party, because we also havedefined relationships that
sometimes may not be open tocommunication.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
So you know the next question, and, cameron, this is
right up the alley with yourbook Mom and Dad, we Need to
Talk.
How do you start theconversation when you've decided
like, hey, we need to talk?
Speaker 5 (15:27):
One of the first things that I suggest people do
is, if you have siblings, talkwith them before you go.
Talk to mom and dad.
Because if you start thatconversation on your own and
your sister gets a call from moma couple of weeks later and mom
is telling her hey, I justtalked to your sister and we
were talking about our estateplan and whatever else, then
(15:47):
your sister I just talked toyour sister and we were talking
about our estate plan andwhatever else, then your sister,
you're going to get a call fromyour sister saying wait, what's
going on?
You're talking to mom withoutme and then there might be
suspicion, there might beresentment, they might think
that you're going behind theirbacks so that you can get in
good with mom and dad and geteverything when they die.
And you want to avoid that.
And so you want to talk to yoursiblings and figure out okay,
(16:11):
who's going to initiate theconversation?
Is it one of you or all of you?
When do you want to start theconversation and how are you
going to start the conversation?
And I usually tell people thatright in the middle of a holiday
meal is not a good time to havethe conversation, because those
holiday meals can be stressful.
There might be people there whodon't need to be part of the
conversation.
Of course, if someone's beendrinking too much, then that
(16:34):
conversation is going to godownhill very quickly, and so
you're going to find anothertime.
Maybe you know, if you'retogether on the holidays, the
least you could do is suggest toyour parents hey, let's find a
time when we all can sit downtogether, when we're not rushed,
and have some conversations,and you can start it in a
variety of ways.
If you're still relativelyyoung, you can go to your
(16:57):
parents for advice, because thatavoids the role reversal Mom
and dad, I just got married.
Should I have life insurance?
Should I have a will?
And their answers are going togive you clues as to what sort
of planning they've done.
And then you keep asking morequestions.
If you are middle-aged, ifyou're in your forties, your
fifties, you've got a story Ican guarantee you.
(17:18):
You know someone who's beeninvolved with their parents'
finances, and so it could be acautionary tale of what this
other person did wrong and howyou think maybe your family can
do it better with planning.
Or maybe you share a tale aboutsomeone who's you know, who had
conversations with theirparents, and when the parent
needed long-term care, they hada plan in place and it made it
(17:39):
easier to deal with thatdifficult conversation.
You can, if you're working witha financial advisor, or if
you've met with an attorneyrecently yourself, you can share
that experience and say hey, Ijust met with an attorney to
update my estate planningdocuments.
I want to know, I want you toknow, where mine are.
By the way, do you have thesedocuments?
(18:00):
Where can I find them?
Again, bringing in that thirdparty if you have to, if you
think your parents are going tobe reluctant to talk, and maybe
that's a family friend, anotherfamily member, a counselor,
someone you know, a member ofyour place of worship, a legal
professional, maybe even afamily doctor.
(18:20):
There are lots of ways to startthe conversation.
Naturally, the thing is youneed to start them early, while
your parents are stillrelatively young and healthy.
If one approach doesn't work,then you're gonna try another
approach and you're gonna keeptrying and slowly chipping away
until you kind of find a way toget your foot in the door and
(18:42):
get your parents comfortablewith sharing some information
with you.
And it's not just oneconversation, it's a series of
conversations.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
And they shouldn't be very long.
That was the other thing thatyou know.
Someone said oh well, we sataround the table and talked for
two and a half hours and I saidwhy they were probably done
after 30 minutes and you justprolonged it and made it an
agonizing conversation versussomething that all right.
Well, we'll touch on this in,you know, the next time we talk.
(19:12):
You know the key is to get itstarted and then continue on
with multiple conversations.
I always say 45 minutes and,especially if you have someone
who has cognitive impairment,you want to make sure that
that's more like 30 minutes,because that individual is
really struggling to processinformation.
And also, you want to bepatient, talk slower, give
(19:35):
people a chance to respond and,as an adult child, I think I did
this wrong, which is the reasonwhy I wrote my book is because
I learned a lot from themistakes I made, but being able
to say, not I want you to or youneed to, but exactly what you
said, cameron, which is hey, Iknow someone, you know a
(19:56):
neighbor or a friend or whateverI was talking to, so-and-so, to
give them something relatablethat doesn't make it just about
them and you telling them whatthey need to do, because it does
exactly that.
It creates that role reversaland a lot of angst, and then
that pushes them to denial orresistance.
(20:16):
And now you've defeated thepurpose of trying to have the
conversation.
So you're spot on.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Yeah, well these are great tips and you know um
cameron.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Your book has some conversation starters, if I
recall correctly, right it does10 to be awesome, awesome and so
, uh, for everybody watching andlistening, as always, there
will be links to everyone'sbooks in the show notes, so
you'll be able to pick up a copyof Pam's book, rochelle's book
and Cameron's book if you wantto go further.
(20:51):
So you know.
The next thing is you know,let's go deeper on that.
What should you cover in theconversation?
Speaker 4 (21:01):
Well, it kind of depends on what you've teed up.
But from my perspective, whenyou're talking about planning
long-term planning I call itlater in life, because
everybody's got a later in lifeas opposed to saying, oh well,
you're going to end up inindependent living, my parents
did not want anybody in theirhouse, so that kind of got rid
(21:24):
of any in-home care options, andso you know being able to say,
well, okay, what are thesituations and what are the
things that you considertriggers for the next step?
(21:50):
And then let's define what thatnext step is for those wishes,
and that's where you can havemultiple conversations.
So I found that that's, that'sand that's.
You know, what I recommend toowith my conversation starters is
is being able to respect eachother and let everybody speak,
but also to make sure that it'snot about it's.
(22:13):
It's about the people um, yourparents in this case, if you're
an adult child, or the parentstrying to get the adult children
to understand look, we needthis and this conversation, we
want to have it and we want tohave it with you.
So, trying to be very open andemotionally reasonable and being
(22:33):
able to have that conversationat a calm, you know, like you
said not, you know, not duringthe holidays, when everybody's
anxious and you know.
So that to me is the mostimportant thing is being able to
have a calm conversation andmake it a mature conversation.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
That's awesome.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
I have a few more things and I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah, go for it.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
If Rochelle has anything to say, I'm sure she
does.
But in addition to thatlong-term care conversation, you
know if you can find out somebasic information.
What are your retirement plans?
What are your sources of incomein retirement?
How do you pay your bills?
I don't need to know.
(23:21):
You know specifically how muchis in your retirement savings or
how much your bills are eachmonth.
But are you paying them bycheck or are they set up to be
paid automatically?
And this is part of emergencyplanning.
If a parent, for example, has astroke, you're in the hospital.
You need to know are the billsbeing paid by check?
(23:44):
If so, can someone sign thecheck while your parent is in
the hospital?
How can we make sure someonesign the check while your parent
is in the hospital?
You know how can we make surethe lights stay on in your
parents house.
So finding out what bills theyhave to pay, you know, really,
the more details that you canget, the better, because at some
point you're going to need thatinformation.
You're going to need all theinformation at some point,
(24:05):
whether you have to step in as acaregiver or when your parents
pass away and you have an estateto settle.
I know a lot of people would bereluctant to give all the
nitty-gritty details.
You know how many people wanttheir kids to know how much debt
they have or how much is in thechecking account, and so
something that you can do is askyour parents, instead of
(24:27):
telling you, is to write thisinformation down.
Make a list of your financialaccounts, make a list of your
assets.
You know, provide yourusernames and passwords.
I need that social securitynumber, your medicare number.
Tell me where that list is andhow and when I can access it,
and this lets them keep controlif they're not comfortable
(24:49):
sharing a lot of informationwith you.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:54):
And that's what my father's done.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
He's like you know.
He uses that generation wherehe doesn't really want to talk
about it, but he's prepared apacket of all that information.
Speaker 5 (25:05):
So and that's great for you, Tony.
You got it.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Exactly and if I need it, hopefully well, I mean
sooner or later, like we've beentalking about.
I am going to need it, buthopefully that data is still a
long way away.
Rochelle, you have anything youwant to throw in here?
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Yeah.
So Pam and Cameron have reallybeen talking about the logical
kind of front brain things thatneed to happen, and I'll just
kind of back up a bit about the,the kind of emotional brain
barriers to being able to dothat.
So if we're not emotionally ina good place, it's it's
(25:45):
resistance across the board tohave those conversations.
And one.
One question that kind of cameup even from our last discussion
was maybe asking your parentswhat their inheritance
experience was like.
What was their, the loss oftheir parents like?
What was it like going throughthe assets with their siblings?
(26:06):
And so there could be someclues there about maybe why they
don't want to talk aboutcertain things and trying to be
empathetic toward any hurt thatthey had.
Well, you know, I'm not goingto tell you anything because me
and my siblings haven't spokenin 30 years because after mom
died, you know.
I don't want that to happen toyou and your and your brother or
(26:28):
something like that.
So checking the familyinheritance kind of narrative is
one place to start.
And then in terms of the data,the passwords and everything
like that I don't know whatthese are, but I know that there
are programs out there, or evenyou know if you put the
(26:52):
passwords with the lawyer orwrite them all down just so that
in the event when they're nolonger here, they have access to
them.
So those were just a couple ofthings that I was thinking as
well.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Awesome.
Well, I'm going to give a shoutout to my book Get Ready, which
has all the space to inventoryeverything and keep track of it.
On my website People can accessyou know what complimentary
worksheets to work along withthat to inventory all this stuff
.
And then you keep your copy toget ready.
You know, keep it in a safe orwherever you want to or give it
(27:30):
to your kids.
But you know, lock thatinformation.
Um cameron is, um does careful,have anything along those lines
?
Speaker 5 (27:40):
we do.
Careful is the, the company Iwork for.
It is a financial safetyservice that was built to
protect older adults financesand to support coordination with
their family members, with atrusted contacts feature.
We do have a vault, which iswhere it's a digital safe
deposit box, essentially, whereyou can store those documents,
(28:01):
you can store passwords.
We are in the process ofcreating a legacy kit that will
make all of this really easy tohand over all of this
information to a person you nameat the time of death, and so
that's something that's in theworks with careful.
(28:22):
But right now we do have thatball that's accessible, you know
, and accessible, and, likeRochelle mentioned, there's
services like 1Password whereyou can use and give someone
access to passwords if you wantto.
So there are services out there.
But even if you have a list,putting it someplace safe and
telling the kids where to findthat can be one way to deal with
(28:45):
this.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Yeah, and now if you have an Apple product running
the latest operating system, onthe iPhone and the Mac operating
system, there is the ability toshare your passwords with a
trusted contact.
Well, not right away, but itcan be triggered if something
happens to you.
That's built into the Appleoperating system.
(29:07):
So there's no cost if you'rerunning Apple products highly
confidential.
I don't work for Apple.
This is not an advertisement forApple, but just saying that
it's a cool new feature that youcan use, and my wife and I have
set it up because even betweenspouses, if something happens to
one of us, it's like, okay, Idon't know all her passwords,
(29:32):
she doesn't know all herpasswords, she doesn't all know
mine, because I'm like mostpeople, I probably have
thousands of passwords out therefor different things.
So, yeah, there's some greattools.
I'll have a link, of course,for everybody watching and
listening to Careful's websiteso you can check out what
they're up to as well.
So I think you know to.
Probably this is the lastquestion we want to kick around,
but you know, let's go deeperon the difficult emotions and
(29:55):
the barriers to having theseconversations.
How do you deal with parentswho don't want to have these
conversations, those difficultemotions?
How do you get around that?
I mean Rochelle.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
I'll jump in first.
Yeah, so what?
What I teach, what I teachadvisors and families is the use
of getting individuals to moveout of denial and into
contemplating and then intoaction on a certain behavior.
(30:40):
So the whole framework was puttogether to help people move
through changing from likecigarette smoking, things like
that.
So there is language that canbe used toward if some, if your
family member, is in denial,there's specific language that
can be used to address thedenial.
(31:01):
That pretty much works everytime.
If they're, if they're incontemplation, if they're kind
of well, you know, I don't know,maybe we'll write a will, or
maybe I will put the house in atrust, a living will, instead of
just a will.
If they're kind ofcontemplating these things, then
(31:24):
there's also language that youcan use to kind of move them
into action, them into action.
And so, for example, denial isthe one that people.
They don't like to hear thisanswer.
This is the least favorite.
If somebody's in denial, Idon't want to talk about it, I
don't want to talk about it.
You usually first respond withthat's completely fine, you
(31:46):
don't have to talk about it.
And then families will say howis that helpful?
That pretty much shuts theconversation down.
Well, you don't leave it there.
You allow them to not have theconversation.
And then you kind of talkaround other things like well,
when you're ready, you useassumptive statements.
(32:09):
That is more from hypnosis,conversational hypnosis.
You use assumptive statements.
That is more from hypnosis,conversational hypnosis.
You use statements like youknow, when you're ready to help
us, help us plan for yourlongevity, or you know, when you
feel excited about the nextphase in your life, or those
sorts of things, then we arehere to help.
(32:30):
Is it OK if I check in in aweek and see where you are with
that?
So it's a slow process.
That's why it's always good tostart these conversations early
and not in a crisis.
But if you are in a crisis,there are experts out there.
(32:52):
There are tools out there thatcan help move your parents along
a little bit faster to get theanswers that you need.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
I absolutely love that, because you're asking your
parents for their help ratherthan, you know, getting them to
talk about these things thatnobody really wants to talk
about.
That's fantastic, pam.
Look like you had something tothrow in here.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
Well, the thing that and I probably wasn't good at
this, I'll admit it, but thething that helped my parents was
to ask questions versus tellingthem well, now we need to go
through this and then we need todo that.
And my dad had um, got reallyupset and about my mom's
(33:41):
condition, and I said what'sgoing on?
I asked the question.
I didn't say, dad, you can'tbehave like that.
And so when we talk aboutplanning to say, just, you know,
something like what Rochellehad said is it's about?
I understand this is scary.
Honestly, why don't I do thiswith you, you know, why don't we
(34:03):
both do it together?
Because that way I get my acttogether, so to speak, and you
can help me, and if you havequestions, maybe I can help you
and we can do this.
We can go to the financialplanner together or we can go to
the lawyer together, and that'swhat we did.
I went to every meeting thatthey went to and got my stuff
(34:24):
together too, and then it feltlike a family activity.
I know that sounds weird, butit was.
It was a joint thing, asopposed to it's time for us to
sit down and talk about later inlife living and and being this
insurmountable, dreaded activityto the conversation.
(34:55):
From kindness and compassionand an understanding that this
is a scary conversation foreveryone around the table, I
think it goes much better.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
That is awesome.
Do it as a partnership, as acollaboration rather than.
You know, I want to know what'sgoing to happen when you get
old or die.
You know nobody's going to belike, ooh, that sounds cool, I'm
ready to have that conversation.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Well, but but, tony, on that, you know my dad used
humor a lot and I was again.
I was lucky because his outlookon death was I mean, he was.
There were times when he wasterrified, leaving up to die,
but for the most part there wasa lot of humor involved and so
(35:37):
if we can infuse that and getmore into a flow state in a
conversation, then it's betterthan all the resistance.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
My dad actually wrote a poem talking about humor
humor if I should die before Iwake, here's where to you know
find the papers.
And I mean it was all rhymingbut it was really cute.
And he he sent it to me in a,in a um, in an envelope, via the
mail and because I think it wasan emotional thing and it was
(36:09):
cute and it was funny and and Istill have it to this day
because it was his way of sayinghere's where you find
everything.
But it was fun for him from abrain perspective to kind of
figure out what words rhymed andthat kind of thing.
So humor is a really powerfulemotional tool.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
You know, what I just thought would be a really cool
idea is to do it almost like atreasure map, yeah, yeah, I mean
not make the clues like superhard, you know.
Yeah, like you're talking aboutis make it fun, is, you know,
because nobody wants to do theirwill or trust and all the other
stuff.
So maybe you know, like you'retalking about pam, make it fun
(36:47):
somehow I scream afterwards yeah, you get a treat if you write
your will, otherwise you getbroccoli if you don't get your
will done.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
Or Brussels sprouts.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
I like Brussels sprouts with bacon, so we could
talk about that.
So you know.
To close up, you know, caneveryone share a quick summary
of what your number one takeawaytip is for the audience,
Cameron?
Speaker 5 (37:21):
Again, these conversations need to happen
sooner rather than later, forall the reasons that we
discussed today.
You don't want to wait until anemergency, because people are
going to be more emotional thenand they're not thinking
rationally.
People don't want to talk abouttheir finances when they're
dealing with a healthcare crisis, and so you find a time to have
(37:43):
these conversations wheneveryone is calm and healthy and
, again, relatively young.
Young, and that doesn't meanthat you know you're 20 and your
parents are 45, but I mean,granted, I'm, I'm 51 and I've
already had these conversationsWith my two older daughters, who
are 18 and 20.
(38:04):
I am that kind of plan, andI've gone through the process of
drafting my will and estateplanning documents not not once,
not twice, but three timesalready.
So it is it is important to tostart sooner rather than later,
because it's it can take time.
Using stories is a good way toget through parents, get through
(38:26):
to parents.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
It's something I did with my mom when she had
Alzheimer's's, and so thosewould be my key takeaways that's
awesome and I'll just tell himfor people have kids turning 18,
that's a really critical timeto update all your state
planning documents.
Speaker 5 (38:44):
So and it's a good time.
Yes, your kids need them too.
Once they're adults, you can'tmake medical decisions for them
anymore, so so yes, done it forour kids also.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Yeah, and a shout out there to Mama Bear Legal Forms.
That's who we've used.
They make it super easy.
I have zero affiliation withthem, but just I've used them
and I think they're great andeasy.
For something like we'retalking about, just to do a
power of attorney for a kidDefinitely not sophisticated
estate planning, but yeah, forsomething like we're talking
about just to do a power ofattorney for a kid definitely
(39:15):
not sophisticated estateplanning, but yeah, for
something simple.
Pam, what's your number onetakeaway?
Speaker 4 (39:21):
I think it comes down to not dreading it, not
dreading the conversation, butagain coming from a place of
kindness and compassion andcollaboration, more than than
telling your parents what theyneed to do to help you manage
(39:41):
everything more easily.
So being and that's the otherthing is and I forget which who
had actually mentioned help, theword help, and it's like if you
could help me understandeverything or or help me know
where to look for yourinformation, that would be that
will help me deal with thesituation at hand.
(40:02):
And I'm a I'm with you, cameron.
Sooner is smarter and I likeusing that, that alliteration,
because people want to be smart.
And when I talk about age, youknow age and I'm so glad that
that you shared the ages of yourkids and yourself, because,
honestly, if you're 45 or olderand you don't have a plan, you
(40:23):
don't have an advanced directive.
If you get in a car accident,you know the hospital will make
those decisions for you, andI've had some not good stories
about that.
So, being able to understandthat there are consequences to
you not and I think, rochelle,you might've brought that up
there are consequences to younot doing this, this isn't one
(40:44):
of those wait and see whathappens, kinds of things, even
if a crisis doesn't happen.
Even if a crisis doesn't happen, other things happen, and so
everyone should go through thisprocess, and avoidance doesn't
eliminate the risk.
So sooner is smarter, go makeit happen.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Give yourself a deadline.
Maybe that gets at least theconversation started.
Well, I love how you prefacedit with come from a place of
collaboration, and I think theother thing that's really
important for people to know isthat if you don't have an estate
plan, the state has an estateplan for you, and there are
things that can happen.
So if you don't make your plan,things are going to happen in a
way that you probably wouldprefer not to happen.
(41:30):
So that's awesome advice,Rochelle what's your number one
takeaway?
Speaker 3 (41:38):
I think, I've got two .
So emotions first.
Emotions have to be dealt withfirst, Otherwise you can't get
any planning done and we'regoing to normalize this whole
conversation.
So advisors need to helpnormalize the conversation.
Everybody needs to normalizeplanning for a long life and
(41:59):
passing.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
That's awesome.
Yeah, you have to alwaysconsider the mental part of this
is, you know, in the financialservices world, we're so often
driven by product that we don'tthink about, like the why.
And then we wonder why ourclients make funny decisions.
Well, it's because they're notreally on board or they're
thinking of something else.
(42:21):
So you know.
To close up, I mean, theimportant thing is where can
people connect with each of you,where can they learn more about
what you're up to and where canthey pick up each of your books
?
So you know, as we go around,please share the title of your
book and where people can pickup Pano.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
So my book is it's Not that Simple Helping Families
Navigate the Alzheimer'sJourney, and you can find out
more about me and what I do andset up a complimentary 30-minute
session on my website, which isalzheimersfamilyconsultingcom.
And Pam, it is not that simple.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
If you need to reach out to me via email, Cool and of
course I'll have everybodylinks to everybody's books
website and everything in theshow notes, rochelle.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Yeah, so I am always on LinkedIn, so you can find me
on LinkedIn, rochelle.
Yeah, so I am always onLinkedIn, so you can find me on
LinkedIn at Rochelle Kana.
My website islifestyleforlegacycom and my
book will be on pre-order in thenext two weeks.
Tony, I know I've been I'vebeen working on this for a long
time.
Speaker 4 (43:27):
Congratulations.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
Yeah, and then, and then we'll be out shortly
thereafter and it is calledInherited Trauma and Family
Wealth.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Awesome, awesome and share your link so I can make
sure I get all the show notesupdated.
Cameron, how about you?
Speaker 5 (43:46):
You can find out more about me and my book, which is
Mom and Dad.
We Need to Talk atCameronHuddlestoncom.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
That's awesome, and thanks for letting me poach the
title of your book for the titleof this episode Mom and Dad,
what's your Plan?
So thanks all of you for beinghere today.
This was an amazingconversation.
I appreciate your time and yourinsights.
Speaker 4 (44:11):
Thank you, tony, thank you.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
And thank you everyone, as always, for tuning
into this episode of the GetReady Money podcast.
If you learned something todayto change the way you think
about money, please be sure tosubscribe and to tell a friend.
(44:42):
Until next time let's changethe way we think about money.
Thank you.
Are you looking to get ready, be prepared and
transform your financial future?
Then you've come to the rightplace.
This is the Get Ready MoneyPodcast with Tony Stewart, where
Tony has insightfulconversations with financial
experts who are changing the waywe think about money.
Catch up on the latestfinancial trends and hear
(00:27):
practical advice from Tony andhis expert guests so you can
build healthy habits that work,Be empowered with tips for
implementing small changes thatcan have a big impact on your
financial future.
So sit back and get ready tohear from today's guest.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Welcome to the Get Ready Money podcast, changing
the way we think about money.
I'm pleased to be joined todayby Cameron Hedleston, pam
Ostrowski and Rochelle Kanna.
In this episode, we'll bediscussing mom and dad what's
the plan?
Welcome everyone to the GetReady Money podcast.
Thanks for being here today.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Thank you, donnie, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Excited to get into this conversation.
So you know, let's start offwith a little bit of a quick
round of introductions, a littlebit about you, your origin
story and your connection tolater in life planning and
communication.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Pam, you want to kick off?
Sure, I'd be happy to.
First of all, thanks for theopportunity and hello listeners,
because it is so important thatyou're here today.
We actually I have a companycalled Alzheimer's Family
Consulting, and it's all basedon my 14 year journey with my
parents, who had the best plan,tony it was they're going to die
(01:50):
in their sleep, they own theircondo and they were going to
live there forever MedicareTricare for life.
We're going to take care of allof their medical expenses and
any military support that dadand her mom needed, and, you
know, basically they were goingto live happily ever after until
they passed.
What happened was mom gotdementia and had it for 14 years
(02:12):
before she passed.
Dad had vascular dementiatowards the end, and so we had
to have this financialconversation.
Well, we started it when I was16, actually because my parents
were planners but the wholestory changed in 2001 when mom
started showing signs ofdementia.
So that's kind of my story, andmy passion is having the right
(02:36):
documents in place, havingtalking about money, because you
know, with the statistics theway they are, it's not given
that everyone will get dementiaby any means.
However, brain health is soimportant and you know, we need
to have the money plan to makesure that if we do need
assistance in home care, forinstance, that we have the
(02:58):
financial means to do it, ratherthan being a financial burden
to our families and and others.
So that's my background.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
That's awesome, rochelle.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Sure, yeah, so I am a psychotherapist of over 20
years and I've kind of worked inthe realm of family transitions
and death and loss andsuccession planning, as I've
worked with high net worthfamilies as well, and when I
stepped into that I realizedthat my family experience was
(03:36):
very different from a lot ofother families because my family
also were planners.
Dad had a plan.
Dad was an old dad.
He was in his 40s when he hadme and my sister and so he was
always very aware of hismortality and he wanted us to be
prepared.
So he was very meticulous aboutmaking sure that we had
(04:01):
conversations and that thosewere normalized.
So when I stepped into workingwith families, I realized that
that is not the norm.
So my word of the day isnormalized.
So let's kind of normalize thefact that we will age and
transition and eventually dieand that we need a solid plan
(04:23):
for that.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
Cameron not die and that we we need a solid plan for
that.
Cameron hi, tony hi, rochellehi, pam hi, everyone who's
listening.
I, um, I am a long timepersonal finance journalist.
I wrote a book called mom anddad.
We need to talk how to haveessential conversations with
your parents about theirfinances.
And I was a caregiver for 12years for my mom who had
(04:49):
Alzheimer's disease Rochelle.
My dad did not plan, eventhough he was an attorney.
He died at the age of 61without a will in a second
marriage, so that threw all ofus for a loop.
And then a few years later, mymom was diagnosed with
(05:09):
Alzheimer's disease.
Again, there was no plan there,and it wasn't necessarily for a
lack of planning.
I had had a conversation withher before she was diagnosed
about looking into long-termcare insurance, but she couldn't
get it because of anotherpre-existing condition that she
had that made her too high risk.
But I dropped the ball.
(05:30):
I didn't realize that was theperfect opportunity to have a
conversation with her about whatsort of care she would want,
how she would pay for that care,and to discuss her finances.
It wasn't until I startedgetting involved that those
conversations happened andthat's what prompted me to write
a book is to warn people.
These conversations can't waituntil there's a health emergency
(05:54):
, because at that point it canbe too late.
So I'm really, I'm reallyexcited that we're talking about
this today.
I'm so passionate about thistopic and I'm really excited to
hear what you, pam, and what you, rochelle, have to say.
I think this is going to begreat.
Gosh that's great, and I love.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
You know I'm already taking notes of, you know,
highlights of what you all havesaid.
Brain health is so important.
We need to normalize fact andwe can't wait on these
conversations.
You know, I mean just there wehave.
You know, we could probablytalk for the next half hour, but
you know, let's back up alittle bit and talk for people
you know about the importance.
Let's go a little bit deeper onthat.
(06:33):
Why is it important to have aconversation from both the
perspective of the parent andthe adult child?
Because everybody is comingfrom a really different place.
Rochelle, you want to kick inon this?
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Sure.
So my take on why it'simportant is kind of comes from
the perspective of nonviolentcommunication.
So in the theory of nonviolentcommunication we all have these
universal needs and those needsare respect and understanding
(07:09):
and empathy and freedom and allthe things that come up at the
at the end of life.
You know, mom and dad don'twant to lose their, they don't
want to lose their maybe role atwork, they don't want to lose
their home.
So freedom is a big one meaningin your life.
So if we don't communicate thenwe can't protect these
(07:31):
universal human needs that weall have for, for dignity and
respect at the end of life.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
And I think the other aspect of that is run into
because I do dementia careconsulting.
So I will meet with a child whosays adult child who says mom
doesn't, mom doesn't want totalk about it, Dad doesn't want
to talk about it.
And it can be a cultural reason, or it can be our businesses,
(08:00):
our business, kids, you don'tneed to know what our business
is.
And it's like, well, yeah, Ikind of do, because who's your
backup?
We are, you know, we the adultchildren are.
And then I have parents this,this one shocked me Parents who
say, okay, kids, we need to havethis conversation.
No, no, no, You're going tolive forever.
And it's like, okay, no, you'renot.
(08:28):
But but they, the adult children, don't want to have the
conversation because they're soentwined with the parents' lives
and to even think about losingthat individual is so
heartbreaking and it's like, allright, we need to work through
those emotions, guys, becausethese are conversations.
I totally agree with you,Michelle, and with you, Cameron,
about these.
Conversations have to be hadand I'm so glad that we're doing
(08:51):
this to try to get that messageout to both adult children and
to parents, the older loved ones, to have this conversation,
Because resisting it doesn'tmake it go away.
You know, burying your head inthe sand doesn't help in the
long term.
As a matter of fact, it's abigger burden and a lot more
(09:12):
stress, a lot more expensive anda lot scarier when you don't
have a plan.
Speaker 5 (09:19):
I would agree with what they both said 100%, and I
would add that one of the bigbenefits of having these
conversations sooner rather thanlater is ensuring that
essential legal documents are inplace so that the parent has
named an adult child, anothertrusted family member, as their
(09:45):
agent under power attorney, tomake financial decisions for
them if they can't.
To name someone as the healthcare surrogate to make medical
decisions for them if they can't.
To make sure they have somesort of will or trust that
spells out who gets what whenthey die an advance directive,
that?
Or living will that says whatsort of end-of-life medical care
they do or do not want.
(10:06):
And this is for the parents.
This is about control.
You want to make thesedecisions.
You want to decide who's makingfinancial and medical decisions
for you.
If you can't, while you'restill healthy and competent, to
make those decisions, if thesedocuments aren't in place, then
(10:28):
something happens Family memberor friend is going to have to go
to court, essentially put youon trial to prove that you are
no longer competent to manageyour affairs, to manage your
health care, and you're going tohave to.
You know that person's going tohave to be named your
conservator guardian.
That costs money, it tearsfamilies apart and that can be
(10:52):
avoided with some planning.
You know, and I know, even ifyou don't end up needing any
sort of long-term care andsomeone doesn't have to help
manage your finances for you tomake health care decisions,
we're all going to die.
We cannot escape that.
And I know plenty of families.
They don't have wills and theythink, well, my kids get along,
they're going to work it out.
(11:13):
And that's often not the case.
Once money comes into play,people get greedy.
People will fight over thesmallest things.
And if you've got those wishesin writing, then that's going to
reduce those fights.
It doesn't eliminate thementirely.
I mean, there are some familieswhere, even if there's a will,
(11:35):
a trust, people are still goingto fight it, you know, because
they think they deserve morethan their brother or sister.
But for the most part, if thereis something in writing, it
will reduce the fighting, reducethe cost and it just makes it
easier for your children.
It's like a gift to them.
They're grieving and they don'twant to have to make those
decisions and so if you've madeit for them, then they can just
(11:59):
simply honor your wishes and Ithink that's so important your
wishes and I think I thinkthat's so important.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Well said, cameron.
I, I, you know it's one ofthose things where, sitting on
the other side, I I'm.
First of all, I'm grateful,much like Rochelle, that I had
older parents who were planners.
But I want my clients' familiesare all the time saying, well,
my sister doesn't want to dothis, or my other brother
doesn't want to do that, or youhave to get five siblings
together in order to have theconversation.
(12:29):
Then there's disgruntlement andone thing that you mentioned
about the healthcare power ofattorney, a durable power of
attorney.
I always advise that you havenamed two people, because it
could be that the first one sayseither something happens to
them or they're in a situationwhere they can no longer act as
primary.
Then your secondary can show upand and fill that that that
(12:52):
void.
So yeah, I love what you saidabout getting all those things
in line.
We in the majority of the ofAmericans don't have them in
place, which is scary, and Ithink this is.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
This is I'm sorry.
Go ahead, tony.
Oh no, no, I was just going tosay.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
You know, just to reiterate a couple things that
you both said is one the planhas to be in writing.
Two, you have to tell peoplethat the plan exists and you
have to have a contingent plan.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
You know, those are just such important points,
contingent plan, you know, thoseare just such important points
and I was just going to add ifyou if you the listener or some
are an aware family memberknowing that denial is not the
best approach to you, knowtransitions in your family, then
(13:45):
sometimes it's really helpfulto bring in a third party or set
up a family meeting and startthat conversation trying to
break down the denial and therest of the family system,
because that's really the.
I also just wrote a book aboutinherited trauma and money and
the reason why I wrote the book.
(14:06):
Well, first of all, I didn'tknow how this was going to work,
because the book was forfamilies who are in denial and I
was like, well, okay, nobody'sgoing to buy this book, because
if you're in denial, you're notlooking for a resource like this
.
So it's really the one catalystfamily member who is aware who
can come in and change thesystem.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
It's funny that you say that, because my book is
actually we need to package themtogether and sell them Because
mine's called.
It's Not that Simple Helpingfamilies navigate the
Alzheimer's journey.
This isn't simple.
We're not saying it's simple,we're saying that you have to,
and I love the idea of the thirdparty coming in, because we
(14:51):
have objective opinions andobjective experience that allows
us to facilitate and take thebite out of some of those family
dynamics.
So another great point yeah, Ilove that bringing in a third
party, because we also havedefined relationships that
sometimes may not be open tocommunication.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
So you know the next question, and, cameron, this is
right up the alley with yourbook Mom and Dad, we Need to
Talk.
How do you start theconversation when you've decided
like, hey, we need to talk?
Speaker 5 (15:27):
One of the first things that I suggest people do
is, if you have siblings, talkwith them before you go.
Talk to mom and dad.
Because if you start thatconversation on your own and
your sister gets a call from moma couple of weeks later and mom
is telling her hey, I justtalked to your sister and we
were talking about our estateplan and whatever else, then
(15:47):
your sister I just talked toyour sister and we were talking
about our estate plan andwhatever else, then your sister,
you're going to get a call fromyour sister saying wait, what's
going on?
You're talking to mom withoutme and then there might be
suspicion, there might beresentment, they might think
that you're going behind theirbacks so that you can get in
good with mom and dad and geteverything when they die.
And you want to avoid that.
And so you want to talk to yoursiblings and figure out okay,
(16:11):
who's going to initiate theconversation?
Is it one of you or all of you?
When do you want to start theconversation and how are you
going to start the conversation?
And I usually tell people thatright in the middle of a holiday
meal is not a good time to havethe conversation, because those
holiday meals can be stressful.
There might be people there whodon't need to be part of the
conversation.
Of course, if someone's beendrinking too much, then that
(16:34):
conversation is going to godownhill very quickly, and so
you're going to find anothertime.
Maybe you know, if you'retogether on the holidays, the
least you could do is suggest toyour parents hey, let's find a
time when we all can sit downtogether, when we're not rushed,
and have some conversations,and you can start it in a
variety of ways.
If you're still relativelyyoung, you can go to your
(16:57):
parents for advice, because thatavoids the role reversal Mom
and dad, I just got married.
Should I have life insurance?
Should I have a will?
And their answers are going togive you clues as to what sort
of planning they've done.
And then you keep asking morequestions.
If you are middle-aged, ifyou're in your forties, your
fifties, you've got a story Ican guarantee you.
(17:18):
You know someone who's beeninvolved with their parents'
finances, and so it could be acautionary tale of what this
other person did wrong and howyou think maybe your family can
do it better with planning.
Or maybe you share a tale aboutsomeone who's you know, who had
conversations with theirparents, and when the parent
needed long-term care, they hada plan in place and it made it
(17:39):
easier to deal with thatdifficult conversation.
You can, if you're working witha financial advisor, or if
you've met with an attorneyrecently yourself, you can share
that experience and say hey, Ijust met with an attorney to
update my estate planningdocuments.
I want to know, I want you toknow, where mine are.
By the way, do you have thesedocuments?
(18:00):
Where can I find them?
Again, bringing in that thirdparty if you have to, if you
think your parents are going tobe reluctant to talk, and maybe
that's a family friend, anotherfamily member, a counselor,
someone you know, a member ofyour place of worship, a legal
professional, maybe even afamily doctor.
(18:20):
There are lots of ways to startthe conversation.
Naturally, the thing is youneed to start them early, while
your parents are stillrelatively young and healthy.
If one approach doesn't work,then you're gonna try another
approach and you're gonna keeptrying and slowly chipping away
until you kind of find a way toget your foot in the door and
(18:42):
get your parents comfortablewith sharing some information
with you.
And it's not just oneconversation, it's a series of
conversations.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
And they shouldn't be very long.
That was the other thing thatyou know.
Someone said oh well, we sataround the table and talked for
two and a half hours and I saidwhy they were probably done
after 30 minutes and you justprolonged it and made it an
agonizing conversation versussomething that all right.
Well, we'll touch on this in,you know, the next time we talk.
(19:12):
You know the key is to get itstarted and then continue on
with multiple conversations.
I always say 45 minutes and,especially if you have someone
who has cognitive impairment,you want to make sure that
that's more like 30 minutes,because that individual is
really struggling to processinformation.
And also, you want to bepatient, talk slower, give
(19:35):
people a chance to respond and,as an adult child, I think I did
this wrong, which is the reasonwhy I wrote my book is because
I learned a lot from themistakes I made, but being able
to say, not I want you to or youneed to, but exactly what you
said, cameron, which is hey, Iknow someone, you know a
(19:56):
neighbor or a friend or whateverI was talking to, so-and-so, to
give them something relatablethat doesn't make it just about
them and you telling them whatthey need to do, because it does
exactly that.
It creates that role reversaland a lot of angst, and then
that pushes them to denial orresistance.
(20:16):
And now you've defeated thepurpose of trying to have the
conversation.
So you're spot on.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Yeah, well these are great tips and you know um
cameron.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Your book has some conversation starters, if I
recall correctly, right it does10 to be awesome, awesome and so
, uh, for everybody watching andlistening, as always, there
will be links to everyone'sbooks in the show notes, so
you'll be able to pick up a copyof Pam's book, rochelle's book
and Cameron's book if you wantto go further.
(20:51):
So you know.
The next thing is you know,let's go deeper on that.
What should you cover in theconversation?
Speaker 4 (21:01):
Well, it kind of depends on what you've teed up.
But from my perspective, whenyou're talking about planning
long-term planning I call itlater in life, because
everybody's got a later in lifeas opposed to saying, oh well,
you're going to end up inindependent living, my parents
did not want anybody in theirhouse, so that kind of got rid
(21:24):
of any in-home care options, andso you know being able to say,
well, okay, what are thesituations and what are the
things that you considertriggers for the next step?
(21:50):
And then let's define what thatnext step is for those wishes,
and that's where you can havemultiple conversations.
So I found that that's, that'sand that's.
You know, what I recommend toowith my conversation starters is
is being able to respect eachother and let everybody speak,
but also to make sure that it'snot about it's.
(22:13):
It's about the people um, yourparents in this case, if you're
an adult child, or the parentstrying to get the adult children
to understand look, we needthis and this conversation, we
want to have it and we want tohave it with you.
So, trying to be very open andemotionally reasonable and being
(22:33):
able to have that conversationat a calm, you know, like you
said not, you know, not duringthe holidays, when everybody's
anxious and you know.
So that to me is the mostimportant thing is being able to
have a calm conversation andmake it a mature conversation.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
That's awesome.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
I have a few more things and I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah, go for it.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
If Rochelle has anything to say, I'm sure she
does.
But in addition to thatlong-term care conversation, you
know if you can find out somebasic information.
What are your retirement plans?
What are your sources of incomein retirement?
How do you pay your bills?
I don't need to know.
(23:21):
You know specifically how muchis in your retirement savings or
how much your bills are eachmonth.
But are you paying them bycheck or are they set up to be
paid automatically?
And this is part of emergencyplanning.
If a parent, for example, has astroke, you're in the hospital.
You need to know are the billsbeing paid by check?
(23:44):
If so, can someone sign thecheck while your parent is in
the hospital?
How can we make sure someonesign the check while your parent
is in the hospital?
You know how can we make surethe lights stay on in your
parents house.
So finding out what bills theyhave to pay, you know, really,
the more details that you canget, the better, because at some
point you're going to need thatinformation.
You're going to need all theinformation at some point,
(24:05):
whether you have to step in as acaregiver or when your parents
pass away and you have an estateto settle.
I know a lot of people would bereluctant to give all the
nitty-gritty details.
You know how many people wanttheir kids to know how much debt
they have or how much is in thechecking account, and so
something that you can do is askyour parents, instead of
(24:27):
telling you, is to write thisinformation down.
Make a list of your financialaccounts, make a list of your
assets.
You know, provide yourusernames and passwords.
I need that social securitynumber, your medicare number.
Tell me where that list is andhow and when I can access it,
and this lets them keep controlif they're not comfortable
(24:49):
sharing a lot of informationwith you.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:54):
And that's what my father's done.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
He's like you know.
He uses that generation wherehe doesn't really want to talk
about it, but he's prepared apacket of all that information.
Speaker 5 (25:05):
So and that's great for you, Tony.
You got it.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Exactly and if I need it, hopefully well, I mean
sooner or later, like we've beentalking about.
I am going to need it, buthopefully that data is still a
long way away.
Rochelle, you have anything youwant to throw in here?
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Yeah.
So Pam and Cameron have reallybeen talking about the logical
kind of front brain things thatneed to happen, and I'll just
kind of back up a bit about the,the kind of emotional brain
barriers to being able to dothat.
So if we're not emotionally ina good place, it's it's
(25:45):
resistance across the board tohave those conversations.
And one.
One question that kind of cameup even from our last discussion
was maybe asking your parentswhat their inheritance
experience was like.
What was their, the loss oftheir parents like?
What was it like going throughthe assets with their siblings?
(26:06):
And so there could be someclues there about maybe why they
don't want to talk aboutcertain things and trying to be
empathetic toward any hurt thatthey had.
Well, you know, I'm not goingto tell you anything because me
and my siblings haven't spokenin 30 years because after mom
died, you know.
I don't want that to happen toyou and your and your brother or
(26:28):
something like that.
So checking the familyinheritance kind of narrative is
one place to start.
And then in terms of the data,the passwords and everything
like that I don't know whatthese are, but I know that there
are programs out there, or evenyou know if you put the
(26:52):
passwords with the lawyer orwrite them all down just so that
in the event when they're nolonger here, they have access to
them.
So those were just a couple ofthings that I was thinking as
well.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Awesome.
Well, I'm going to give a shoutout to my book Get Ready, which
has all the space to inventoryeverything and keep track of it.
On my website People can accessyou know what complimentary
worksheets to work along withthat to inventory all this stuff
.
And then you keep your copy toget ready.
You know, keep it in a safe orwherever you want to or give it
(27:30):
to your kids.
But you know, lock thatinformation.
Um cameron is, um does careful,have anything along those lines
?
Speaker 5 (27:40):
we do.
Careful is the, the company Iwork for.
It is a financial safetyservice that was built to
protect older adults financesand to support coordination with
their family members, with atrusted contacts feature.
We do have a vault, which iswhere it's a digital safe
deposit box, essentially, whereyou can store those documents,
(28:01):
you can store passwords.
We are in the process ofcreating a legacy kit that will
make all of this really easy tohand over all of this
information to a person you nameat the time of death, and so
that's something that's in theworks with careful.
(28:22):
But right now we do have thatball that's accessible, you know
, and accessible, and, likeRochelle mentioned, there's
services like 1Password whereyou can use and give someone
access to passwords if you wantto.
So there are services out there.
But even if you have a list,putting it someplace safe and
telling the kids where to findthat can be one way to deal with
(28:45):
this.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Yeah, and now if you have an Apple product running
the latest operating system, onthe iPhone and the Mac operating
system, there is the ability toshare your passwords with a
trusted contact.
Well, not right away, but itcan be triggered if something
happens to you.
That's built into the Appleoperating system.
(29:07):
So there's no cost if you'rerunning Apple products highly
confidential.
I don't work for Apple.
This is not an advertisement forApple, but just saying that
it's a cool new feature that youcan use, and my wife and I have
set it up because even betweenspouses, if something happens to
one of us, it's like, okay, Idon't know all her passwords,
(29:32):
she doesn't know all herpasswords, she doesn't all know
mine, because I'm like mostpeople, I probably have
thousands of passwords out therefor different things.
So, yeah, there's some greattools.
I'll have a link, of course,for everybody watching and
listening to Careful's websiteso you can check out what
they're up to as well.
So I think you know to.
Probably this is the lastquestion we want to kick around,
but you know, let's go deeperon the difficult emotions and
(29:55):
the barriers to having theseconversations.
How do you deal with parentswho don't want to have these
conversations, those difficultemotions?
How do you get around that?
I mean Rochelle.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
I'll jump in first.
Yeah, so what?
What I teach, what I teachadvisors and families is the use
of getting individuals to moveout of denial and into
contemplating and then intoaction on a certain behavior.
(30:40):
So the whole framework was puttogether to help people move
through changing from likecigarette smoking, things like
that.
So there is language that canbe used toward if some, if your
family member, is in denial,there's specific language that
can be used to address thedenial.
(31:01):
That pretty much works everytime.
If they're, if they're incontemplation, if they're kind
of well, you know, I don't know,maybe we'll write a will, or
maybe I will put the house in atrust, a living will, instead of
just a will.
If they're kind ofcontemplating these things, then
(31:24):
there's also language that youcan use to kind of move them
into action, them into action.
And so, for example, denial isthe one that people.
They don't like to hear thisanswer.
This is the least favorite.
If somebody's in denial, Idon't want to talk about it, I
don't want to talk about it.
You usually first respond withthat's completely fine, you
(31:46):
don't have to talk about it.
And then families will say howis that helpful?
That pretty much shuts theconversation down.
Well, you don't leave it there.
You allow them to not have theconversation.
And then you kind of talkaround other things like well,
when you're ready, you useassumptive statements.
(32:09):
That is more from hypnosis,conversational hypnosis.
You use assumptive statements.
That is more from hypnosis,conversational hypnosis.
You use statements like youknow, when you're ready to help
us, help us plan for yourlongevity, or you know, when you
feel excited about the nextphase in your life, or those
sorts of things, then we arehere to help.
(32:30):
Is it OK if I check in in aweek and see where you are with
that?
So it's a slow process.
That's why it's always good tostart these conversations early
and not in a crisis.
But if you are in a crisis,there are experts out there.
(32:52):
There are tools out there thatcan help move your parents along
a little bit faster to get theanswers that you need.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
I absolutely love that, because you're asking your
parents for their help ratherthan, you know, getting them to
talk about these things thatnobody really wants to talk
about.
That's fantastic, pam.
Look like you had something tothrow in here.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
Well, the thing that and I probably wasn't good at
this, I'll admit it, but thething that helped my parents was
to ask questions versus tellingthem well, now we need to go
through this and then we need todo that.
And my dad had um, got reallyupset and about my mom's
(33:41):
condition, and I said what'sgoing on?
I asked the question.
I didn't say, dad, you can'tbehave like that.
And so when we talk aboutplanning to say, just, you know,
something like what Rochellehad said is it's about?
I understand this is scary.
Honestly, why don't I do thiswith you, you know, why don't we
(34:03):
both do it together?
Because that way I get my acttogether, so to speak, and you
can help me, and if you havequestions, maybe I can help you
and we can do this.
We can go to the financialplanner together or we can go to
the lawyer together, and that'swhat we did.
I went to every meeting thatthey went to and got my stuff
(34:24):
together too, and then it feltlike a family activity.
I know that sounds weird, butit was.
It was a joint thing, asopposed to it's time for us to
sit down and talk about later inlife living and and being this
insurmountable, dreaded activityto the conversation.
(34:55):
From kindness and compassionand an understanding that this
is a scary conversation foreveryone around the table, I
think it goes much better.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
That is awesome.
Do it as a partnership, as acollaboration rather than.
You know, I want to know what'sgoing to happen when you get
old or die.
You know nobody's going to belike, ooh, that sounds cool, I'm
ready to have that conversation.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Well, but but, tony, on that, you know my dad used
humor a lot and I was again.
I was lucky because his outlookon death was I mean, he was.
There were times when he wasterrified, leaving up to die,
but for the most part there wasa lot of humor involved and so
(35:37):
if we can infuse that and getmore into a flow state in a
conversation, then it's betterthan all the resistance.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
My dad actually wrote a poem talking about humor
humor if I should die before Iwake, here's where to you know
find the papers.
And I mean it was all rhymingbut it was really cute.
And he he sent it to me in a,in a um, in an envelope, via the
mail and because I think it wasan emotional thing and it was
(36:09):
cute and it was funny and and Istill have it to this day
because it was his way of sayinghere's where you find
everything.
But it was fun for him from abrain perspective to kind of
figure out what words rhymed andthat kind of thing.
So humor is a really powerfulemotional tool.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
You know, what I just thought would be a really cool
idea is to do it almost like atreasure map, yeah, yeah, I mean
not make the clues like superhard, you know.
Yeah, like you're talking aboutis make it fun, is, you know,
because nobody wants to do theirwill or trust and all the other
stuff.
So maybe you know, like you'retalking about pam, make it fun
(36:47):
somehow I scream afterwards yeah, you get a treat if you write
your will, otherwise you getbroccoli if you don't get your
will done.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
Or Brussels sprouts.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
I like Brussels sprouts with bacon, so we could
talk about that.
So you know.
To close up, you know, caneveryone share a quick summary
of what your number one takeawaytip is for the audience,
Cameron?
Speaker 5 (37:21):
Again, these conversations need to happen
sooner rather than later, forall the reasons that we
discussed today.
You don't want to wait until anemergency, because people are
going to be more emotional thenand they're not thinking
rationally.
People don't want to talk abouttheir finances when they're
dealing with a healthcare crisis, and so you find a time to have
(37:43):
these conversations wheneveryone is calm and healthy and
, again, relatively young.
Young, and that doesn't meanthat you know you're 20 and your
parents are 45, but I mean,granted, I'm, I'm 51 and I've
already had these conversationsWith my two older daughters, who
are 18 and 20.
(38:04):
I am that kind of plan, andI've gone through the process of
drafting my will and estateplanning documents not not once,
not twice, but three timesalready.
So it is it is important to tostart sooner rather than later,
because it's it can take time.
Using stories is a good way toget through parents, get through
(38:26):
to parents.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
It's something I did with my mom when she had
Alzheimer's's, and so thosewould be my key takeaways that's
awesome and I'll just tell himfor people have kids turning 18,
that's a really critical timeto update all your state
planning documents.
Speaker 5 (38:44):
So and it's a good time.
Yes, your kids need them too.
Once they're adults, you can'tmake medical decisions for them
anymore, so so yes, done it forour kids also.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Yeah, and a shout out there to Mama Bear Legal Forms.
That's who we've used.
They make it super easy.
I have zero affiliation withthem, but just I've used them
and I think they're great andeasy.
For something like we'retalking about, just to do a
power of attorney for a kidDefinitely not sophisticated
estate planning, but yeah, forsomething like we're talking
about just to do a power ofattorney for a kid definitely
(39:15):
not sophisticated estateplanning, but yeah, for
something simple.
Pam, what's your number onetakeaway?
Speaker 4 (39:21):
I think it comes down to not dreading it, not
dreading the conversation, butagain coming from a place of
kindness and compassion andcollaboration, more than than
telling your parents what theyneed to do to help you manage
(39:41):
everything more easily.
So being and that's the otherthing is and I forget which who
had actually mentioned help, theword help, and it's like if you
could help me understandeverything or or help me know
where to look for yourinformation, that would be that
will help me deal with thesituation at hand.
(40:02):
And I'm a I'm with you, cameron.
Sooner is smarter and I likeusing that, that alliteration,
because people want to be smart.
And when I talk about age, youknow age and I'm so glad that
that you shared the ages of yourkids and yourself, because,
honestly, if you're 45 or olderand you don't have a plan, you
(40:23):
don't have an advanced directive.
If you get in a car accident,you know the hospital will make
those decisions for you, andI've had some not good stories
about that.
So, being able to understandthat there are consequences to
you not and I think, rochelle,you might've brought that up
there are consequences to younot doing this, this isn't one
(40:44):
of those wait and see whathappens, kinds of things, even
if a crisis doesn't happen.
Even if a crisis doesn't happen, other things happen, and so
everyone should go through thisprocess, and avoidance doesn't
eliminate the risk.
So sooner is smarter, go makeit happen.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Give yourself a deadline.
Maybe that gets at least theconversation started.
Well, I love how you prefacedit with come from a place of
collaboration, and I think theother thing that's really
important for people to know isthat if you don't have an estate
plan, the state has an estateplan for you, and there are
things that can happen.
So if you don't make your plan,things are going to happen in a
way that you probably wouldprefer not to happen.
(41:30):
So that's awesome advice,Rochelle what's your number one
takeaway?
Speaker 3 (41:38):
I think, I've got two .
So emotions first.
Emotions have to be dealt withfirst, Otherwise you can't get
any planning done and we'regoing to normalize this whole
conversation.
So advisors need to helpnormalize the conversation.
Everybody needs to normalizeplanning for a long life and
(41:59):
passing.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
That's awesome.
Yeah, you have to alwaysconsider the mental part of this
is, you know, in the financialservices world, we're so often
driven by product that we don'tthink about, like the why.
And then we wonder why ourclients make funny decisions.
Well, it's because they're notreally on board or they're
thinking of something else.
(42:21):
So you know.
To close up, I mean, theimportant thing is where can
people connect with each of you,where can they learn more about
what you're up to and where canthey pick up each of your books
?
So you know, as we go around,please share the title of your
book and where people can pickup Pano.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
So my book is it's Not that Simple Helping Families
Navigate the Alzheimer'sJourney, and you can find out
more about me and what I do andset up a complimentary 30-minute
session on my website, which isalzheimersfamilyconsultingcom.
And Pam, it is not that simple.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
If you need to reach out to me via email, Cool and of
course I'll have everybodylinks to everybody's books
website and everything in theshow notes, rochelle.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Yeah, so I am always on LinkedIn, so you can find me
on LinkedIn, rochelle.
Yeah, so I am always onLinkedIn, so you can find me on
LinkedIn at Rochelle Kana.
My website islifestyleforlegacycom and my
book will be on pre-order in thenext two weeks.
Tony, I know I've been I'vebeen working on this for a long
time.
Speaker 4 (43:27):
Congratulations.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
Yeah, and then, and then we'll be out shortly
thereafter and it is calledInherited Trauma and Family
Wealth.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Awesome, awesome and share your link so I can make
sure I get all the show notesupdated.
Cameron, how about you?
Speaker 5 (43:46):
You can find out more about me and my book, which is
Mom and Dad.
We Need to Talk atCameronHuddlestoncom.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
That's awesome, and thanks for letting me poach the
title of your book for the titleof this episode Mom and Dad,
what's your Plan?
So thanks all of you for beinghere today.
This was an amazingconversation.
I appreciate your time and yourinsights.
Speaker 4 (44:11):
Thank you, tony, thank you.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
And thank you everyone, as always, for tuning
into this episode of the GetReady Money podcast.
If you learned something todayto change the way you think
about money, please be sure tosubscribe and to tell a friend.
(44:42):
Until next time let's changethe way we think about money.
Thank you.
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