March 14, 2025 • 42 mins
On this episode of The Get Ready Money Podcast, I spoke with George Kinder, author and founder of the Fiduciary In All Things (FIAT) Movement about the FIAT movement.
In this episode we discussed:
- Why FIAT is essential for the future of civilization.
- Imagine if we lived in a trustworthy world.
- A great first step is to reflect and listen more.
- How we can integrate FIAT into our lives, and lead from our personal integrity
- Without a fiduciary standard, democracy is undermined and civilization can die.
- Why institutions have a higher obligation and need to be trustworthy.
George Kinder is an author and international thought leader. Known in the financial industry as the Father of Life Planning, George has authored 12 books, including three books on money as he revolutionized client-centered financial advice through experiential trainings for thousands of advisors from over 30 countries across six continents.
A mindfulness teacher for thirty-five years, Kinder has led weekly meditation classes and residential retreats around the world. In his latest book, The Three Domains of Freedom, he inspires readers to experience three profound freedoms: the freedom of each moment, the freedom to pursue one's life purpose, and the freedoms of civilization. He advocates a sustainable approach for institutions to prioritize humanity, democracy, the Earth, and the truth above their own self-interest, a concept he terms Fiduciary In All Things (FIAT).
- Financial Planning Association’s first Heart of Financial Planning Award in 2006, recognizing “individuals who demonstrate commitment and passion in doing extraordinary work to contribute or give back to the financial planning community and/or the public.”
- The Transparency Task Force’s Transparency Trophy (2017), recognizing his role in “helping to navigate the industry towards a more transparent, competitive and enlightened state.“
- “One of 20 People Who Shaped the Financial Planning Industry” (“50th Anniversary of Financial Planning” Special Edition, InvestmentNews, 2019).
Connect with George Kinder:
The Fiduciary in All Things website (here)
The Kinder Institute website (here)
Life Planning for You website (here)
Books:
- The Three Domains of Freedom: Each Moment Is Yours, Your Life Is Yours, Civilization Is Yours
- Life Planning for You: How to Design & Deliver the Life of Your Dreams
- Lighting the Torch: The Kinder Method(TM) of Life Planning
- The Seven Stages of Money Maturity: Understanding the Spirit and Value of Money in Your Life
- A Golden Civilization and The Map of Mindfulness
- A Song for Hana & the Spirit of Leho'ula
- Transforming Suffering into Wisdom: Mindfulness a
The Get Ready Money Podcast and its guests do not provide investment advice. All content is for educational purposes. Guest opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of The Get Ready Mon
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Are you looking to get ready, be prepared and
transform your financial future?
Then you've come to the rightplace.
This is the Get Ready MoneyPodcast with Tony Stewart, where
Tony has insightfulconversations with financial
experts who are changing the waywe think about money.
Catch up on the latestfinancial trends and hear
(00:27):
practical advice from Tony andhis expert guests so you can
build healthy habits that work,Be empowered with tips for
implementing small changes thatcan have a big impact on your
financial future.
So sit back and get ready tohear from today's guest.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Welcome to the Get Ready Money podcast, changing
the way we think about money.
I'm pleased to be joined todayby George Kinder.
George is an author andfiduciary thought leader.
In this episode we'll bediscussing George's insights on
the fiduciary in all things fiatmovement.
George, welcome back to the GetReady Money podcast.
(01:08):
Thanks for joining us again.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Tony, it's such a thrill to be back.
Thank you so much for asking me.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, excited to have you on and to talk about this.
This is an amazing thing.
So just to give us a little bitof perspective, what is your
origin story in respect to thefiat movement?
What inspired you?
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yeah, I gosh.
There's so many things but thethe.
I think what really the, thethe strongest origin, was that
came out of the banking crisis,you know, 15 years ago or so, 17
years ago, and what happenedthen was I got outraged that the
financial industry was involvedso much in making a lot, ending
(01:50):
up making a lot of people'slives miserable people losing
their retirement savings, peoplelosing their homes.
And I took it personally, tony,because I, like you perhaps,
had dedicated my life to thisindustry and in every way that I
worked, was trying to make it abetter place for consumers, for
(02:13):
humanity, really, and make it atrustworthy place.
So, when the banking crisishappened, I got really ticked
off and I started to write thisbook, and I wrote a thousand
pages, maybe 1400 pages, of abook that I called then a
banking manifesto, and it was.
It was really, you know, quitesomething.
And and at some point Irealized, well, wait, a minute,
that's not me and part of it wasbut the, perhaps the outrage, I
(02:39):
don't know.
So I went to the.
It was very dramatic.
I went and I took this stack ofpaper and I picked it up and I
went to the wastebasket andthrew it all away.
And then I went back and Ithought what is me?
And I and I realized that whatI attempt to do with people is
inspire them.
So I thought how can I inspirepeople rather than complain a
(03:02):
lot about what's happened?
We all can complain and weshould complain.
It's part of democracy.
But so I went and I wrote thisbook called A Golden
Civilization and the Map ofMindfulness, putting together an
idea that maybe we were all onthe same page.
If we really talked to peopleyou know, one-on-one or in small
(03:24):
groups or in communities, maybepeople would say the same thing
about what they really wantedand what they thought was wrong
with the system.
And what I did with.
That was really, reallyexciting.
I got an offer by one of the topfinancial associations of
financial advisors in the worldto go on a world tour for them.
So I thought, oh, this isperfect, I'm going to go and
(03:49):
they're going to ask me to talkabout financial and I will, but
I'm really going to talk aboutgolden civilization and I'm
going to have goldencivilization conversations
everywhere.
And that's what I did and Itraveled all over America.
I traveled all over Europe.
I traveled wherever theassociations would take me.
We had conversations all overthe world looking at what would
(04:10):
we like the world to be, andeverybody wanted the same thing
they really did, even inautocratic, poor countries they
wanted democracy, they wantedendeavor, competitive endeavor,
(04:30):
they wanted kindness, theywanted an end to corruption
everywhere, nobody wantscorruption.
And so there were all thesethings and I just thought, god,
an end to bigotry, food, foodand shelter for everybody, you
know, basic stuff that everybodywanted.
And I thought, well, we've gotsomething here.
And then COVID hit and we go,oh no, and I, my travel stopped,
(04:55):
I got a terrible case of COVID,which dropped me down even
further.
And and so I started thinking,well, is there a way to simplify
all this, because I can'ttravel?
And and I came up with thisthing that in fact there was, um
, well, here's the question,tony, that the I, I, I minored
(05:20):
in economics at harvard, so Iput on that old economics hat
which I've always loved, and Ithought 250 years ago began this
huge explosion in growth in theWest.
And look at you and me we'retalking across continent
practically, and it's sowonderful.
And we've been around a longtime, perhaps a lot longer than
(05:41):
our ancestors were around, andso I thought great stuff,
incredible stuff.
We all know that.
How come we're in such adifficult place Banking crisis,
the global warming crisis withdemocracy?
How come?
And I thought, if we had thevery best system over that 250
(06:04):
years because there's all thiscompetition which creates new
things, which is why it's beenso wonderful If we had the best
system, wouldn't we see the verybest of humanity at the very
top of every hierarchy of power?
And I thought, well, that makessense for how the systems are
(06:25):
supposed to work.
And and I looked around and Ididn't see a single one.
I mean, you might be able toidentify one of your favorite
nonprofits or something, but Icouldn't see a single one where
I thought wisdom and compassionare at the top of that
organization.
They care about humanity, theycare about the planet, they care
about democracy, all of thesethings, and they're it.
They care about the planet,they care about democracy, all
of these things, and they'reit's filtering all the way down.
(06:48):
So I thought there's got to besomething that we can institute
when anybody becomesincorporated or when a
government forms, or when anon-profit forms that we have.
People swear that, in additionto getting all these privileges,
they have a responsibility topeople, to the truth, to
(07:12):
democracy and to the planet.
And I realized and I talked toa number of lawyers, a few
political people, and they said,george, you've nailed it, this
would do it.
So that's kind of the origin ofthe whole thing and it was very
exciting to come there andarrive at that and realize we've
got a simple solution foralmost all the problems that we
(07:34):
face in the world right now onyour question, I'm not sure that
I can point to at least manypolitical leaders in that
position.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, I can think of a few leaders of especially
smaller nonprofits.
But I think and I've seen thisin the insurance industry is
that oftentimes people at thetop have no idea what's actually
happening with the end user.
And I know, I've seen that inthe insurance business, where
they keep designing all theseproducts and how they market
them, but the consumers have noidea what they're buying, the
(08:17):
agents have no idea what they'reselling, the insurance
companies can't even servicepolicies.
The insurance companies can'teven service policies and the
regulators are undermanned andunderstaffed and their most
experienced people end up goinginto the private world.
(08:38):
So it's, you know, it's achallenge, and I'm with you this
.
But I think it comes down towho we are as a person and that
sometimes these people rise toleadership and they forget about
what it's like to not be aleader.
So this movement is inspiringme.
So, you know, let's telleverybody about it.
What is the fiduciary in allthings movement?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Well, and I love your preamble there, tony, because
in the early days I was afinancial advisor, obviously,
and when my clients came in withthese really complex insurance
policies or whatever, I tried todive in and figure out what's
the real rate of return here andwhat's really happening.
(09:24):
I couldn't for the life of me.
It took me hours and hours andhours, and when I called
insurance people to explain itto me, they couldn't explain it
to me either, or what they saidwas just not clearly not true
when you really got down toanalyzing it.
So, right on, and that's what,in a way, that's what the
fiduciary in all things movementmeans, in a way that it's time
(09:51):
you know.
In financial services a lot ofpeople don't even know what
fiduciary means.
But in financial services,fiduciary is a term that we all
know and you're either on oneside of it or you're on the
other side of it, and if you'reon the other side, you primarily
want to sell and you don't wantto be held to a higher standard
of some sort.
And then there are those who gono, the consumer comes first
(10:13):
and let's do it.
The problem has been that we'vebeen played against each other
when really I think people onboth sides are good-hearted
people.
People on both sides reallywant to help people, I think,
more than anything.
And so what I realized was thatthe issue is not so much
between different kinds ofadvisors, but between those who
(10:37):
are fiduciaries, those advisorswho are fiduciaries, and the
institutions that are neverfiduciaries.
They are only fiduciaries totheir shareholders, so they're
only fiduciaries to money andprofit, and that means that the
consumer gets the short end ofthe stick.
So you're going to get thesecomplex legal arrangements and
(11:02):
nobody can figure them out, butthey've been very carefully
outlined by the attorneys forthe big institutions.
So what I realized was that whatwe really needed was a movement
that made fiduciary, which iscare for the consumer or care
(11:25):
for, in this case, all things.
We needed a movement that wouldcreate every institution, would
require every institution to betrustworthy and be a fiduciary
toward the truth, toward people,toward democracy and toward the
planet toward the truth, towardpeople, toward democracy and
(11:47):
toward the planet.
And the movement is really justbeginning, but I've been
talking about it for a couple ofyears and we're beginning to
get traction.
It's very exciting and we'vegot people on multiple
continents and multiplecountries talking about it and
engaging around it and figuringout how to do something in their
particular arenas.
And I think it has to be agrassroots movement, partly
(12:13):
because of what you just said.
Where's the politicians?
And even you know a lot ofpeople.
The Democrats tended to be muchmore in favor of a fiduciary
standard in government, but eventhe Democrats are, you know,
have large billionairesupporters that you know might
not be in favor of limitingtheir freedom to make a lot of
(12:36):
money.
So I think it has to be agrassroots movement to make the
vision really strong, and that'sthat's what I'm doing right now
.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
That's what I'm all about well I'm with you and
again, you know, as I reflectthrough it and we think about
some of our billionaires insociety, is how many of them,
besides bill gates and warrenbuffett, are known for their
philanthropy, and I think that'sa reflection of who they are
(13:07):
and how they act, and that'ssomething that all of us can
think about.
Is, you know, breaking down theword fiduciary, and your point
is to?
I've seen some people who aresales compensated only on
commissions, and they'rewonderful compensated only on
commissions, and they'rewonderful.
(13:27):
They care completely for theirclients.
And I've seen people who arecompensated by fees and that is
definitely not the case by anymeans.
So I think that it's really howeverybody incorporates these
things and how we each choose toact and what our personal code
of ethics is.
So you know, I think we'vealready talked about what
(13:50):
inspired you to start the fiatmovement.
But you know, let's talk alittle bit about the fiduciary
standard so people canunderstand what that is,
especially.
Even I think sometimes thosewithin the financial services
industry tend to struggle withwhat it is.
What is a fiduciary standard?
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Yeah, so, and you're right, and one of the things
that happens and this is thereason that truth plays an
important role in this is thatit gets twisted up by the press.
(14:38):
So you think it's one thing.
One day and then you find outthat the press or politicians,
because of all kinds ofpressures on them, have made
compromises.
Things movement because it'simportant that we have a society
where our institutions thathave these extra powers, they
have extra leverage, they canget capitalized with lots of
(14:59):
money and then they can borrowlots of money and then they've
got the ability to spread theirso-called free speech out to all
of us, and often at thesacrifice of the truth or the
planet or people or democracy.
So a fiduciary standard is astandard of care.
(15:21):
It's a standard where theperson who is the fiduciary or
the institution that is thefiduciary has a responsibility
to be trustworthy and caring andputting all of these other
things first.
So in the financial industry,we've understood it as putting
(15:45):
the client first, and that hasmostly been interpreted as being
that you should charge onlyfees and not sales, talking
about what you were talkingabout.
That's been mostly how it'sbeen interpreted In my
(16:05):
understanding.
However, I would say that ifyou're going to put the consumer
first, that there are a numberof other ways that you would
need to do that, and one is tohave a more holistic
understanding of money, so thatthe consumer actually is thought
about in all these differentways and not in relation just to
the product that they'repurchasing, so that the
(16:30):
fiduciary is capable of helpingthem make decision on should
they in fact buy that particularproduct.
So they know a lot of things,and often that's in our day.
The certified financial plannerdesignation is the strongest
designation.
We've got around that.
And then the third thing is amovement that I started a number
(16:51):
of years ago called lifeplanning, and that is that if
you're really going to put theconsumer first, boy, you got to
be a really good listener,because their life isn't about
buying financial products.
Their life is about havingsomething meaningful, doing
something for the community.
They're in doing somethingwildly creative, caring for
(17:13):
their kids, doing somethingspiritual that has great meaning
.
And to be a fiduciary to them,I think, requires all three of
those things attention about thefees, holistic approach to
finances and really putting themfirst, who they are, who they
(17:37):
want to be.
Then you're going to deliversomething to them that's
incredibly valuable to them, andit may very well include a
product, but their money life'sgoing to be sorted out in a way
that's incredible to them, andit may very well include a
product, but their money life'sgoing to be sorted out in a way
that's incredible for them.
So a fiduciary standard, that'sin the world of finance.
And what I'm suggesting is weneed a standard like that for
(17:59):
all of our institutions, becausethey're the ones that run amok
much more than we do.
You know, you can blame globalwarming on each one of us
because we have a car Well,that's not really fair or
because we, you know, we haven'trecycled all of our stuff.
But the truth is that theinstitutions are so powerful
(18:19):
with it.
It's clear that global warmingcame largely from fossil fuels
and from the companies that madetheir money from it.
So a fiduciary standard ofobligation to the planet would
mean that they would haveaddressed the issue of global
warming a long time ago and wewouldn't be facing the kind of
(18:40):
crisis we have right now.
So it's that kind of caretoward democracy, toward the
truth, is huge right now andtoward people.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Yeah, I love that.
And when you talk with peopleone-on-one, you know even CEOs
and you know these owners andyou know people that I, you know
that I've talked to.
You know people that I, youknow that I've talked to, you
know in those positions or youknow themselves is in their own
lives.
They are trustworthy and caring, often you know with their own
(19:21):
loved ones, with their kids,with their aging parents, and so
they do have that.
But I think you know that theydon't act as stewards
responsible.
But I think it comes back toand I'm going to for everybody,
I'm going to link to George'swork in life planning because
it's great stuff me to.
(19:49):
It is what you said aboutlistening, that I saw a lot of
the issues I saw in theinsurance business, especially
in litigation a lot of times.
There are some really badactors out there, without a
doubt, but that a lot of thecases were because the insurance
agent didn't listen to what theclient was asking for and the
client thought that they werebuying something other than what
they were buying.
And so that listening and Ithink big corporations you know,
(20:13):
as we go back to that andpoliticians, they don't listen
to what other people want theydo, what they think should be
done or what they want to do,and so I think, if we put
listening at the core, that thatis a valuable skill that is at
the heart of best interest,whether it's for financial
(20:36):
services or for politics oranything else.
Is that maybe listening is acore skill for all of?
Speaker 3 (20:43):
this.
I couldn't agree more.
I love your thoughts there andI think you're absolutely right
about the CEOs, that every oneof them, I mean.
We're all human beings and soyou know we all have hearts and
we're all touched in ways thatmake the goodness and kindness
(21:05):
of our hearts come forth.
Institutions are not humanbeings.
They're not and they are set by.
They've got a set of rules.
They're hierarchical instructure.
They've got a bunch of humanbeings in them, but they don't
operate as a human being, and sothey're operating again for a
(21:26):
fiduciary standard toward theirshareholders, to make a profit.
So that's their objective.
They have a hierarchy, so it'snot a democracy.
They're able to sell productwith the words that they put out
, with their so-called freedomof speech, and often those words
, just like you said, that theconsumer might have read the
(21:47):
sales pitch or whatever it was,but the document that they
signed, even if they read it,they usually couldn't understand
it and still would have thoughtit was something that the
insurance agent, who might nothave read it, said it was, and
it wasn't that.
So I think institutions have ahigher obligation than we as
(22:10):
human beings.
We all know we're flawed and weare human.
Wonderful for us each to betrustworthy, but institutions,
because they have such power,we're not sustainable as a
planet, we're not sustainable asa democracy.
The truth is clearly notsustainable without them having
(22:31):
this fiduciary relationship tous all and to the things we care
about most.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Definitely, and we've seen that in our society.
When corporations decide thatthey want to take a stand or
influence, a change is that theyare able to be, leaders and
that we look at certain people,you know leaders.
So, you know, let's talk alittle bit about you know why is
(22:58):
fiat essential for civilizationand earth?
I mean, you know, we've talkeda little bit about global
warming and everything else isis how can Fiat really?
You know why?
Why is it so critical toeverything?
Speaker 3 (23:13):
You can see it today in the news.
I mean it's um, uh forcivilization.
One of the most incrediblehuman inventions, maybe the
greatest invention for humanity,is democracy.
And right now you see anabsolutely wild, crazy leader
(23:38):
saying that this country thatwants to be democratic and wants
to join NATO and wants to bepart of the EU community of
democracies is a dictatorshipand was the starter of a war
with a country that we know is adictatorship, that doesn't have
a legitimate democracy and hasimmense power.
(24:01):
So without a fiduciary standardof truth, not only by
corporations but also by thegovernment, democracy is
undermined.
We've seen that in America lotsof ways.
It's been undermined and a lotof times by things that aren't
(24:22):
true.
All the politicaladvertisements that come out
that tell half-truths or 10%truths and the people vote
accordingly.
That's totally inappropriateand without democracy
civilization, we're facing anend of real civilization.
The greatest thing we've everinvented is dying and the Earth,
(24:43):
we know that it's dying by thedegree of warming that has
happened over the last 50 yearsor so.
But if we had a fiduciarystandard for every institution,
they wouldn't be able to do that.
You wouldn't have institutionsthat had ongoing pollution Once
(25:03):
they discovered that they werepolluting, something that would
cause a problem for the planet,they would immediately get busy
figuring out how to stop it andnot immediately get busy and
figuring out how to spin thetruth so that a lot of people
buy into their weird tinyfraction of a percent arguments
(25:23):
that defy science.
So we need institutions we cantrust as human beings.
I mean, this is the amazingthing, tony.
Imagine if every institution inthe world corporate, government
, nonprofit you could trust ineverything they do, that they
were trustworthy.
That would just be anincredible thing.
(25:44):
In everything they do that theywere trustworthy.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
That would just be an incredible thing.
I agree with you completely andI think you know.
I mean I don't want to benegative, but I feel there is a
breakdown going on right now, asyou know, as you talk about
people not taking for me, it'speople not taking responsibility
(26:06):
for their actions and expectingothers to carry them.
It's like you know, I did somewilderness, first response
medicine and you know, the firstthing that you're always taught
, you know, just like on anairplane is you take care of
yourself first.
You never become, you don'twant to become another victim,
(26:29):
and that's, I think that there'sa personal responsibility for
each of us and that a lot of ustend to forget and for watchers
and listeners.
I know this is a little bitdifferent than our normal
conversations, but I think it'simportant because money does tie
into these things.
So just to let everybody knowwe're not going too far off the
(26:51):
track here.
So you know, george is you know, as people reflect on this is
how can people start tointegrate this fiat vision into
their own lives yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Yeah, one of the things I mean.
I'm touched by what you'resaying and your reflection back
on CEOs, and here we have threeelements.
We've got individuals.
We're all individuals.
We've got CEOs who are at thetop of a hierarchy of power
(27:28):
itself, whether it's acorporation or a government or a
nonprofit, because nonprofitscan take single issues and,
rather than tell the truth, thewhole truth and nothing but the
truth, just pitch that singleissue.
So we need a standard that wecan all trust and feel is
trustworthy, and one of thethings that is, our society is
(27:52):
breaking down in many ways rightnow around all these things,
and one of the ways that I meanit's so important for each of us
, as you say, to aspire to thisand to attempt to be trustworthy
in this way, partly becausethose, those are the people we
respect.
(28:12):
There's a wonderful tale fromancient China, from Confucius,
and this was truly what happened.
Confucius was talking to all.
There were five, I think therewas five states that China was
in at that time.
Each one of them had its owngovernor or emperor or king or
(28:36):
whatever, and he was asked byone of them how can I stop my
people from being greedy thieves?
They're just stealing fromeverybody.
And Confucius looked him in theeye and he said you know, if
you stopped your own greedythieving, all of them would
(28:58):
follow suit, because they lookto you and think what is the
model of proper conduct as ahuman being?
And you were it as a humanbeing, and you were it, so, um.
So I think it's very importantthat we do it and we, uh, but
(29:19):
but also, and even moreimportant, because we don't,
because all institutions areamok that we have a requirement
that every institution also betrustworthy yeah, I completely
agree with you.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
I'm reflecting.
There is I went to a conferencewhen I was very young in the
business and it was an attorneyand he was talking a little bit
about ethics and everything elseand he said here's the rule to
keep in mind he goes, you'redeciding whether to do something
or not, and then he goes.
Imagine your seven-year-olddaughter is leaning over your
(29:54):
shoulder and you have to justifythat decision with her.
Would you still make that samedecision, knowing that you have
to explain it to yourseven-year-old daughter and for
me that's been a rule that I'velived under for my professional
life is like is that somethingthat I'd be willing to explain
(30:16):
and live with with a child?
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Beautiful, yeah, right on, and, and that's really
what we're trying to do.
And not only should we beliving with the, with that code
of ethics that a child kind ofunderstands when you really ask
them those questions, but alsowe want to have a world that
protects our children, that isthere for our children, and
(30:41):
there we need democracy.
We need a world that tells thetruth.
We need a planet that ishealthy and we need not this
bizarre inequity that is presentin civilization today.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Yeah, yeah, and I think you know, without going
too far down, the inequity is, Ithink that it hurts all of us,
even those at the top is youknow that, essentially,
eventually these things balanceout.
They never end well when youhave a severe imbalance.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
So you know it's balance is good for everybody.
That's right.
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
So, you know, how can you know people, you know, how
can they start to spread thisvision?
You know, as, once they'vedecided, you know, that they
want to, you know, integratethis into their own lives, into
their own actions, how can they,you know, encourage others?
I know, within our group, we'vetalked about that and we're
(31:41):
just getting started on someideas.
What do you recommend tolisteners who are saying, hey, I
really like this?
Speaker 3 (31:49):
you know, and even to listeners who are going are
going, well, I don't know.
Yeah, it'd be kind of nice, butgosh, how can they ever do it?
Um, because a lot of us havethat skepticism about
accomplishing anything, this,this, um dramatic, this uh bold,
this filled, filled with it, asit is, with integrity, and I
think the first thing that Iwould say that's really
(32:11):
worthwhile doing is buying theand reading the book.
It's called the Three Domainsof Freedom and it's a really
simple see if I've got one hereon the desk.
It's just, it's a book ofwisdom.
I think it's really, you cansee, it's really short and
inspiring.
The Three Domains of FreedomEach moment is yours, your life
(32:33):
is yours and civilization isyours, and it touches on a lot
of the themes we're doing and itleads from a personal care and
personal integrity, leads fromthat into civilization, and then
it leads to the fiat movement.
So it gives you a real, realunderstanding, a background and
a way of talking about it withother people.
(32:54):
So that's that's really helpful, just to have that kind of of
argument and and depth ofthinking about it, and it will
stir up thinking for yourself.
Um, do a book club, have peopletalk about it, debate it and um
, and then there are just somany other things that we've
thought of to do.
One of the things I did herewith my 20 year old daughters
(33:15):
and their best friends, aroundthe kitchen table and we call it
a kitchen table conversationand what we did was we showed
them the fiat language.
A fiduciary standard isrequired of all institutions,
whether they're governmental,corporate or non-profit, to
(33:38):
place the interests of the truth, people, the planet and
democracy ahead of their ownself-interest, ahead of their
own self-concern.
And we asked them to reflect onwhat their life would be like.
Let's just stay with the vision.
What would your life be like ifthe world were like this, if
(34:00):
all institutions weretrustworthy?
How would your life change?
And there were some amazingthings that people the kids said
well, I'd relax, you know, Icould feel more at ease, I'd be
more happy.
Someone said, one person saidand there was nods around the
table because these were allyoung women well, I consider
(34:25):
maybe having children after all,and that was a shock to my wife
and I just hearing that thatthey've assumed that they're in
a dystopian kind of world withthe planet failing and democracy
failing and they're questioningwhether bringing more people
into the world is right to do so.
(34:46):
A kitchen table conversation isa wonderful thing.
Spread the vision.
What would it feel like?
And we've got a great website,fiduciaryinallthingscom, or you
can go on my own website,georgekindercom, and find it,
and there are lots of thingsthere that you can see that you
could do.
One of them you can buy thebooks in bulk for like half
(35:09):
price and then give them away.
It's a wonderful way ofspreading the message and
getting people thinking aboutthis.
It's important that we spreadthe vision rather than try to
figure out how can we do it.
Yet If everybody has the vision, it's like getting a man on the
moon.
We'll figure out how we'recreative and inventive and
(35:31):
incredibly smart creatures.
We'll figure out how we'recreative and inventive and
incredibly smart creatures.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
We'll figure out how yeah, yeah, and I think at the
core we've talked about this isthat everybody does want help.
Is there very few people whowould, of people are going to
want to help and to do what?
they can.
But what you said is to placeothers before your own
(36:06):
self-interest.
That can be very tough forpeople.
That can be very tough forpeople.
So you know, just real quickly,before we wrap up, is you know,
do you have any tips for peopleyou know who are kind of, you
know, hesitant to placethemselves?
I mean to place others before?
Speaker 3 (36:25):
their own personal self-interest if they're
hesitating there.
Yeah, I think that one of thethings we have on the website is
signing a pledge, and it's nota pledge to be perfect, it's not
a pledge to place everybodyahead of yourself, it's a pledge
to support that this reallyshould be the way that our
(36:48):
structures work.
And so to start by kind ofmaking that pledge, just taking
that step and saying, yeah, Iagree, this is how things should
work, and then just begin toreflect when you see yourself
perhaps in a complex, conflictedsituation, just you know, think
(37:11):
more and listen more to thealternative of what would be.
Just to think what would beplacing other people, or your
clients or your customers, whatwould be, or place your spouse.
One of the things I've learnedand it's made for a great
relationship is that if youplace your spouse, your partner,
(37:33):
first, if you really want themto succeed, well, wow, what an
incredible life you have.
It's the greatest asset in afamily is to know that your
partner is really living afulfilled life.
So those would be some of thethings I would think of Tony.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
That's, that's awesome and that's great advice
and I think for all of us whohave kids, you know, is we
automatically?
Well, not automatically, butmost people, you know they'll do
anything for their kids and tosee their kids succeed, and it
gives, and I think that maybethat's a thing is to remember.
You can apply that feeling toother areas.
You know there's nothing likevolunteering.
(38:17):
I know that personally I foundvolunteering very rewarding.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
And it.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
You know doing these things does come back to you.
We probably don't want to talkabout karma in this episode, but
you know there is.
You know you do get rewards, asyou mentioned, in intangible
ways by helping others.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Yeah, and the kids is such a great example.
I mean because we do.
We feel like they come first inso many ways and we're kind of
even stunned by it in our earlydays perhaps.
But imagine if everyinstitution treated humanity as
(39:03):
if humanity were their children.
So of course they would tellthe truth in all their
advertising and everything theydo.
Of course they would supporthumanity's democracy, not buying
the democracy out from underthem.
So I mean, it would be anincredible thing and it's
(39:26):
possible, it's not.
People might say, hey, this isutopian.
Well, I don't think so.
I think it's the beginning ofhow a global civilization has to
work.
Without a system like this, aglobal civilization will fall
apart.
So if we have this kind of rulenow, we're at a beginning phase
(39:48):
where I think people will feelso much more trust in their
institutions that they will findgreater creativity, greater
entrepreneurial energy inside ofthemselves, greater engagement
with the world around them.
Cynicism that we all have allof us is a disease and it's
really caused by the fact thatwe don't underneath it all,
(40:12):
don't believe largely thatinstitutions will hold to their
best statements coming forward.
So imagine if we did not livein a cynical world but we lived
in a trustworthy world where,instead we trusted all those
things, where instead we trustedall those things, we'd see an
(40:34):
incredible amount of energysuddenly released in the planet.
That would be extraordinary allover the world.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Yeah, I love that and I think that's a great place to
wrap up.
You know you start to mentionis where people can learn more
about you and get involved withthe fiduciary and all things
movement.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
So you know, if you just quickly summarize that, and
maybe any social media channelswhere you're active, yeah, I'm
hugely active on LinkedIn andfairly active on Facebook and
active somewhat on Instagram aswell, and I think we're starting
Blue Sky is one of the thingswe're doing now too.
I think we're starting Blue Skyis one of the things we're
(41:12):
doing now too, but the thewebsites are really pretty cool
that I think, anyway, thatGeorge Kinder dot com has a lot
of things I've done.
I've been wildly creative inmany ways.
I started a movement infinancial services, but also I'm
a writer, a poet, aphotographer and and I've done a
(41:33):
rock and roll album on Spotifythat you can find.
That I did.
That's cool.
But on that site you'll seesomething on fiduciary in all
things.
You could also go.
If you just want to do thisfiduciary thing, go to the
website fiduciary in allthingscom.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
It's accessible from my website and also from just
going directly to it.
Yeah, and, of course, foreverybody watching and listening
, as always, there will be linksto all these resources and ways
to get in touch with George,follow him and the fiduciary and
all things movement.
So, george, thank you forjoining us today on the Get
Ready Money podcast.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Wonderful privilege, tony.
Thank you so much for invitingme.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Yeah, and thank you everyone as always, for tuning
into this episode of the GetReady Money podcast.
If you learned something todayto change the way you think
about the money and in this case, in your life, you know please
be sure to subscribe and to tella friend.
Until next time let's changethe way we think about money.
You
Are you looking to get ready, be prepared and
transform your financial future?
Then you've come to the rightplace.
This is the Get Ready MoneyPodcast with Tony Stewart, where
Tony has insightfulconversations with financial
experts who are changing the waywe think about money.
Catch up on the latestfinancial trends and hear
(00:27):
practical advice from Tony andhis expert guests so you can
build healthy habits that work,Be empowered with tips for
implementing small changes thatcan have a big impact on your
financial future.
So sit back and get ready tohear from today's guest.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Welcome to the Get Ready Money podcast, changing
the way we think about money.
I'm pleased to be joined todayby George Kinder.
George is an author andfiduciary thought leader.
In this episode we'll bediscussing George's insights on
the fiduciary in all things fiatmovement.
George, welcome back to the GetReady Money podcast.
(01:08):
Thanks for joining us again.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Tony, it's such a thrill to be back.
Thank you so much for asking me.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, excited to have you on and to talk about this.
This is an amazing thing.
So just to give us a little bitof perspective, what is your
origin story in respect to thefiat movement?
What inspired you?
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yeah, I gosh.
There's so many things but thethe.
I think what really the, thethe strongest origin, was that
came out of the banking crisis,you know, 15 years ago or so, 17
years ago, and what happenedthen was I got outraged that the
financial industry was involvedso much in making a lot, ending
(01:50):
up making a lot of people'slives miserable people losing
their retirement savings, peoplelosing their homes.
And I took it personally, tony,because I, like you perhaps,
had dedicated my life to thisindustry and in every way that I
worked, was trying to make it abetter place for consumers, for
(02:13):
humanity, really, and make it atrustworthy place.
So, when the banking crisishappened, I got really ticked
off and I started to write thisbook, and I wrote a thousand
pages, maybe 1400 pages, of abook that I called then a
banking manifesto, and it was.
It was really, you know, quitesomething.
And and at some point Irealized, well, wait, a minute,
that's not me and part of it wasbut the, perhaps the outrage, I
(02:39):
don't know.
So I went to the.
It was very dramatic.
I went and I took this stack ofpaper and I picked it up and I
went to the wastebasket andthrew it all away.
And then I went back and Ithought what is me?
And I and I realized that whatI attempt to do with people is
inspire them.
So I thought how can I inspirepeople rather than complain a
(03:02):
lot about what's happened?
We all can complain and weshould complain.
It's part of democracy.
But so I went and I wrote thisbook called A Golden
Civilization and the Map ofMindfulness, putting together an
idea that maybe we were all onthe same page.
If we really talked to peopleyou know, one-on-one or in small
(03:24):
groups or in communities, maybepeople would say the same thing
about what they really wantedand what they thought was wrong
with the system.
And what I did with.
That was really, reallyexciting.
I got an offer by one of the topfinancial associations of
financial advisors in the worldto go on a world tour for them.
So I thought, oh, this isperfect, I'm going to go and
(03:49):
they're going to ask me to talkabout financial and I will, but
I'm really going to talk aboutgolden civilization and I'm
going to have goldencivilization conversations
everywhere.
And that's what I did and Itraveled all over America.
I traveled all over Europe.
I traveled wherever theassociations would take me.
We had conversations all overthe world looking at what would
(04:10):
we like the world to be, andeverybody wanted the same thing
they really did, even inautocratic, poor countries they
wanted democracy, they wantedendeavor, competitive endeavor,
(04:30):
they wanted kindness, theywanted an end to corruption
everywhere, nobody wantscorruption.
And so there were all thesethings and I just thought, god,
an end to bigotry, food, foodand shelter for everybody, you
know, basic stuff that everybodywanted.
And I thought, well, we've gotsomething here.
And then COVID hit and we go,oh no, and I, my travel stopped,
(04:55):
I got a terrible case of COVID,which dropped me down even
further.
And and so I started thinking,well, is there a way to simplify
all this, because I can'ttravel?
And and I came up with thisthing that in fact there was, um
, well, here's the question,tony, that the I, I, I minored
(05:20):
in economics at harvard, so Iput on that old economics hat
which I've always loved, and Ithought 250 years ago began this
huge explosion in growth in theWest.
And look at you and me we'retalking across continent
practically, and it's sowonderful.
And we've been around a longtime, perhaps a lot longer than
(05:41):
our ancestors were around, andso I thought great stuff,
incredible stuff.
We all know that.
How come we're in such adifficult place Banking crisis,
the global warming crisis withdemocracy?
How come?
And I thought, if we had thevery best system over that 250
(06:04):
years because there's all thiscompetition which creates new
things, which is why it's beenso wonderful If we had the best
system, wouldn't we see the verybest of humanity at the very
top of every hierarchy of power?
And I thought, well, that makessense for how the systems are
(06:25):
supposed to work.
And and I looked around and Ididn't see a single one.
I mean, you might be able toidentify one of your favorite
nonprofits or something, but Icouldn't see a single one where
I thought wisdom and compassionare at the top of that
organization.
They care about humanity, theycare about the planet, they care
about democracy, all of thesethings, and they're it.
They care about the planet,they care about democracy, all
of these things, and they'reit's filtering all the way down.
(06:48):
So I thought there's got to besomething that we can institute
when anybody becomesincorporated or when a
government forms, or when anon-profit forms that we have.
People swear that, in additionto getting all these privileges,
they have a responsibility topeople, to the truth, to
(07:12):
democracy and to the planet.
And I realized and I talked toa number of lawyers, a few
political people, and they said,george, you've nailed it, this
would do it.
So that's kind of the origin ofthe whole thing and it was very
exciting to come there andarrive at that and realize we've
got a simple solution foralmost all the problems that we
(07:34):
face in the world right now onyour question, I'm not sure that
I can point to at least manypolitical leaders in that
position.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, I can think of a few leaders of especially
smaller nonprofits.
But I think and I've seen thisin the insurance industry is
that oftentimes people at thetop have no idea what's actually
happening with the end user.
And I know, I've seen that inthe insurance business, where
they keep designing all theseproducts and how they market
them, but the consumers have noidea what they're buying, the
(08:17):
agents have no idea what they'reselling, the insurance
companies can't even servicepolicies.
The insurance companies can'teven service policies and the
regulators are undermanned andunderstaffed and their most
experienced people end up goinginto the private world.
(08:38):
So it's, you know, it's achallenge, and I'm with you this
.
But I think it comes down towho we are as a person and that
sometimes these people rise toleadership and they forget about
what it's like to not be aleader.
So this movement is inspiringme.
So, you know, let's telleverybody about it.
What is the fiduciary in allthings movement?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Well, and I love your preamble there, tony, because
in the early days I was afinancial advisor, obviously,
and when my clients came in withthese really complex insurance
policies or whatever, I tried todive in and figure out what's
the real rate of return here andwhat's really happening.
(09:24):
I couldn't for the life of me.
It took me hours and hours andhours, and when I called
insurance people to explain itto me, they couldn't explain it
to me either, or what they saidwas just not clearly not true
when you really got down toanalyzing it.
So, right on, and that's what,in a way, that's what the
fiduciary in all things movementmeans, in a way that it's time
(09:51):
you know.
In financial services a lot ofpeople don't even know what
fiduciary means.
But in financial services,fiduciary is a term that we all
know and you're either on oneside of it or you're on the
other side of it, and if you'reon the other side, you primarily
want to sell and you don't wantto be held to a higher standard
of some sort.
And then there are those who gono, the consumer comes first
(10:13):
and let's do it.
The problem has been that we'vebeen played against each other
when really I think people onboth sides are good-hearted
people.
People on both sides reallywant to help people, I think,
more than anything.
And so what I realized was thatthe issue is not so much
between different kinds ofadvisors, but between those who
(10:37):
are fiduciaries, those advisorswho are fiduciaries, and the
institutions that are neverfiduciaries.
They are only fiduciaries totheir shareholders, so they're
only fiduciaries to money andprofit, and that means that the
consumer gets the short end ofthe stick.
So you're going to get thesecomplex legal arrangements and
(11:02):
nobody can figure them out, butthey've been very carefully
outlined by the attorneys forthe big institutions.
So what I realized was that whatwe really needed was a movement
that made fiduciary, which iscare for the consumer or care
(11:25):
for, in this case, all things.
We needed a movement that wouldcreate every institution, would
require every institution to betrustworthy and be a fiduciary
toward the truth, toward people,toward democracy and toward the
planet toward the truth, towardpeople, toward democracy and
(11:47):
toward the planet.
And the movement is really justbeginning, but I've been
talking about it for a couple ofyears and we're beginning to
get traction.
It's very exciting and we'vegot people on multiple
continents and multiplecountries talking about it and
engaging around it and figuringout how to do something in their
particular arenas.
And I think it has to be agrassroots movement, partly
(12:13):
because of what you just said.
Where's the politicians?
And even you know a lot ofpeople.
The Democrats tended to be muchmore in favor of a fiduciary
standard in government, but eventhe Democrats are, you know,
have large billionairesupporters that you know might
not be in favor of limitingtheir freedom to make a lot of
(12:36):
money.
So I think it has to be agrassroots movement to make the
vision really strong, and that'sthat's what I'm doing right now
.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
That's what I'm all about well I'm with you and
again, you know, as I reflectthrough it and we think about
some of our billionaires insociety, is how many of them,
besides bill gates and warrenbuffett, are known for their
philanthropy, and I think that'sa reflection of who they are
(13:07):
and how they act, and that'ssomething that all of us can
think about.
Is, you know, breaking down theword fiduciary, and your point
is to?
I've seen some people who aresales compensated only on
commissions, and they'rewonderful compensated only on
commissions, and they'rewonderful.
(13:27):
They care completely for theirclients.
And I've seen people who arecompensated by fees and that is
definitely not the case by anymeans.
So I think that it's really howeverybody incorporates these
things and how we each choose toact and what our personal code
of ethics is.
So you know, I think we'vealready talked about what
(13:50):
inspired you to start the fiatmovement.
But you know, let's talk alittle bit about the fiduciary
standard so people canunderstand what that is,
especially.
Even I think sometimes thosewithin the financial services
industry tend to struggle withwhat it is.
What is a fiduciary standard?
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Yeah, so, and you're right, and one of the things
that happens and this is thereason that truth plays an
important role in this is thatit gets twisted up by the press.
(14:38):
So you think it's one thing.
One day and then you find outthat the press or politicians,
because of all kinds ofpressures on them, have made
compromises.
Things movement because it'simportant that we have a society
where our institutions thathave these extra powers, they
have extra leverage, they canget capitalized with lots of
(14:59):
money and then they can borrowlots of money and then they've
got the ability to spread theirso-called free speech out to all
of us, and often at thesacrifice of the truth or the
planet or people or democracy.
So a fiduciary standard is astandard of care.
(15:21):
It's a standard where theperson who is the fiduciary or
the institution that is thefiduciary has a responsibility
to be trustworthy and caring andputting all of these other
things first.
So in the financial industry,we've understood it as putting
(15:45):
the client first, and that hasmostly been interpreted as being
that you should charge onlyfees and not sales, talking
about what you were talkingabout.
That's been mostly how it'sbeen interpreted In my
(16:05):
understanding.
However, I would say that ifyou're going to put the consumer
first, that there are a numberof other ways that you would
need to do that, and one is tohave a more holistic
understanding of money, so thatthe consumer actually is thought
about in all these differentways and not in relation just to
the product that they'repurchasing, so that the
(16:30):
fiduciary is capable of helpingthem make decision on should
they in fact buy that particularproduct.
So they know a lot of things,and often that's in our day.
The certified financial plannerdesignation is the strongest
designation.
We've got around that.
And then the third thing is amovement that I started a number
(16:51):
of years ago called lifeplanning, and that is that if
you're really going to put theconsumer first, boy, you got to
be a really good listener,because their life isn't about
buying financial products.
Their life is about havingsomething meaningful, doing
something for the community.
They're in doing somethingwildly creative, caring for
(17:13):
their kids, doing somethingspiritual that has great meaning
.
And to be a fiduciary to them,I think, requires all three of
those things attention about thefees, holistic approach to
finances and really putting themfirst, who they are, who they
(17:37):
want to be.
Then you're going to deliversomething to them that's
incredibly valuable to them, andit may very well include a
product, but their money life'sgoing to be sorted out in a way
that's incredible to them, andit may very well include a
product, but their money life'sgoing to be sorted out in a way
that's incredible for them.
So a fiduciary standard, that'sin the world of finance.
And what I'm suggesting is weneed a standard like that for
(17:59):
all of our institutions, becausethey're the ones that run amok
much more than we do.
You know, you can blame globalwarming on each one of us
because we have a car Well,that's not really fair or
because we, you know, we haven'trecycled all of our stuff.
But the truth is that theinstitutions are so powerful
(18:19):
with it.
It's clear that global warmingcame largely from fossil fuels
and from the companies that madetheir money from it.
So a fiduciary standard ofobligation to the planet would
mean that they would haveaddressed the issue of global
warming a long time ago and wewouldn't be facing the kind of
(18:40):
crisis we have right now.
So it's that kind of caretoward democracy, toward the
truth, is huge right now andtoward people.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Yeah, I love that.
And when you talk with peopleone-on-one, you know even CEOs
and you know these owners andyou know people that I, you know
that I've talked to.
You know people that I, youknow that I've talked to, you
know in those positions or youknow themselves is in their own
lives.
They are trustworthy and caring, often you know with their own
(19:21):
loved ones, with their kids,with their aging parents, and so
they do have that.
But I think you know that theydon't act as stewards
responsible.
But I think it comes back toand I'm going to for everybody,
I'm going to link to George'swork in life planning because
it's great stuff me to.
(19:49):
It is what you said aboutlistening, that I saw a lot of
the issues I saw in theinsurance business, especially
in litigation a lot of times.
There are some really badactors out there, without a
doubt, but that a lot of thecases were because the insurance
agent didn't listen to what theclient was asking for and the
client thought that they werebuying something other than what
they were buying.
And so that listening and Ithink big corporations you know,
(20:13):
as we go back to that andpoliticians, they don't listen
to what other people want theydo, what they think should be
done or what they want to do,and so I think, if we put
listening at the core, that thatis a valuable skill that is at
the heart of best interest,whether it's for financial
(20:36):
services or for politics oranything else.
Is that maybe listening is acore skill for all of?
Speaker 3 (20:43):
this.
I couldn't agree more.
I love your thoughts there andI think you're absolutely right
about the CEOs, that every oneof them, I mean.
We're all human beings and soyou know we all have hearts and
we're all touched in ways thatmake the goodness and kindness
(21:05):
of our hearts come forth.
Institutions are not humanbeings.
They're not and they are set by.
They've got a set of rules.
They're hierarchical instructure.
They've got a bunch of humanbeings in them, but they don't
operate as a human being, and sothey're operating again for a
(21:26):
fiduciary standard toward theirshareholders, to make a profit.
So that's their objective.
They have a hierarchy, so it'snot a democracy.
They're able to sell productwith the words that they put out
, with their so-called freedomof speech, and often those words
, just like you said, that theconsumer might have read the
(21:47):
sales pitch or whatever it was,but the document that they
signed, even if they read it,they usually couldn't understand
it and still would have thoughtit was something that the
insurance agent, who might nothave read it, said it was, and
it wasn't that.
So I think institutions have ahigher obligation than we as
(22:10):
human beings.
We all know we're flawed and weare human.
Wonderful for us each to betrustworthy, but institutions,
because they have such power,we're not sustainable as a
planet, we're not sustainable asa democracy.
The truth is clearly notsustainable without them having
(22:31):
this fiduciary relationship tous all and to the things we care
about most.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Definitely, and we've seen that in our society.
When corporations decide thatthey want to take a stand or
influence, a change is that theyare able to be, leaders and
that we look at certain people,you know leaders.
So, you know, let's talk alittle bit about you know why is
(22:58):
fiat essential for civilizationand earth?
I mean, you know, we've talkeda little bit about global
warming and everything else isis how can Fiat really?
You know why?
Why is it so critical toeverything?
Speaker 3 (23:13):
You can see it today in the news.
I mean it's um, uh forcivilization.
One of the most incrediblehuman inventions, maybe the
greatest invention for humanity,is democracy.
And right now you see anabsolutely wild, crazy leader
(23:38):
saying that this country thatwants to be democratic and wants
to join NATO and wants to bepart of the EU community of
democracies is a dictatorshipand was the starter of a war
with a country that we know is adictatorship, that doesn't have
a legitimate democracy and hasimmense power.
(24:01):
So without a fiduciary standardof truth, not only by
corporations but also by thegovernment, democracy is
undermined.
We've seen that in America lotsof ways.
It's been undermined and a lotof times by things that aren't
(24:22):
true.
All the politicaladvertisements that come out
that tell half-truths or 10%truths and the people vote
accordingly.
That's totally inappropriateand without democracy
civilization, we're facing anend of real civilization.
The greatest thing we've everinvented is dying and the Earth,
(24:43):
we know that it's dying by thedegree of warming that has
happened over the last 50 yearsor so.
But if we had a fiduciarystandard for every institution,
they wouldn't be able to do that.
You wouldn't have institutionsthat had ongoing pollution Once
(25:03):
they discovered that they werepolluting, something that would
cause a problem for the planet,they would immediately get busy
figuring out how to stop it andnot immediately get busy and
figuring out how to spin thetruth so that a lot of people
buy into their weird tinyfraction of a percent arguments
(25:23):
that defy science.
So we need institutions we cantrust as human beings.
I mean, this is the amazingthing, tony.
Imagine if every institution inthe world corporate, government
, nonprofit you could trust ineverything they do, that they
were trustworthy.
That would just be anincredible thing.
(25:44):
In everything they do that theywere trustworthy.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
That would just be an incredible thing.
I agree with you completely andI think you know.
I mean I don't want to benegative, but I feel there is a
breakdown going on right now, asyou know, as you talk about
people not taking for me, it'speople not taking responsibility
(26:06):
for their actions and expectingothers to carry them.
It's like you know, I did somewilderness, first response
medicine and you know, the firstthing that you're always taught
, you know, just like on anairplane is you take care of
yourself first.
You never become, you don'twant to become another victim,
(26:29):
and that's, I think that there'sa personal responsibility for
each of us and that a lot of ustend to forget and for watchers
and listeners.
I know this is a little bitdifferent than our normal
conversations, but I think it'simportant because money does tie
into these things.
So just to let everybody knowwe're not going too far off the
(26:51):
track here.
So you know, george is you know, as people reflect on this is
how can people start tointegrate this fiat vision into
their own lives yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Yeah, one of the things I mean.
I'm touched by what you'resaying and your reflection back
on CEOs, and here we have threeelements.
We've got individuals.
We're all individuals.
We've got CEOs who are at thetop of a hierarchy of power
(27:28):
itself, whether it's acorporation or a government or a
nonprofit, because nonprofitscan take single issues and,
rather than tell the truth, thewhole truth and nothing but the
truth, just pitch that singleissue.
So we need a standard that wecan all trust and feel is
trustworthy, and one of thethings that is, our society is
(27:52):
breaking down in many ways rightnow around all these things,
and one of the ways that I meanit's so important for each of us
, as you say, to aspire to thisand to attempt to be trustworthy
in this way, partly becausethose, those are the people we
respect.
(28:12):
There's a wonderful tale fromancient China, from Confucius,
and this was truly what happened.
Confucius was talking to all.
There were five, I think therewas five states that China was
in at that time.
Each one of them had its owngovernor or emperor or king or
(28:36):
whatever, and he was asked byone of them how can I stop my
people from being greedy thieves?
They're just stealing fromeverybody.
And Confucius looked him in theeye and he said you know, if
you stopped your own greedythieving, all of them would
(28:58):
follow suit, because they lookto you and think what is the
model of proper conduct as ahuman being?
And you were it as a humanbeing, and you were it, so, um.
So I think it's very importantthat we do it and we, uh, but
(29:19):
but also, and even moreimportant, because we don't,
because all institutions areamok that we have a requirement
that every institution also betrustworthy yeah, I completely
agree with you.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
I'm reflecting.
There is I went to a conferencewhen I was very young in the
business and it was an attorneyand he was talking a little bit
about ethics and everything elseand he said here's the rule to
keep in mind he goes, you'redeciding whether to do something
or not, and then he goes.
Imagine your seven-year-olddaughter is leaning over your
(29:54):
shoulder and you have to justifythat decision with her.
Would you still make that samedecision, knowing that you have
to explain it to yourseven-year-old daughter and for
me that's been a rule that I'velived under for my professional
life is like is that somethingthat I'd be willing to explain
(30:16):
and live with with a child?
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Beautiful, yeah, right on, and, and that's really
what we're trying to do.
And not only should we beliving with the, with that code
of ethics that a child kind ofunderstands when you really ask
them those questions, but alsowe want to have a world that
protects our children, that isthere for our children, and
(30:41):
there we need democracy.
We need a world that tells thetruth.
We need a planet that ishealthy and we need not this
bizarre inequity that is presentin civilization today.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Yeah, yeah, and I think you know, without going
too far down, the inequity is, Ithink that it hurts all of us,
even those at the top is youknow that, essentially,
eventually these things balanceout.
They never end well when youhave a severe imbalance.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
So you know it's balance is good for everybody.
That's right.
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
So, you know, how can you know people, you know, how
can they start to spread thisvision?
You know, as, once they'vedecided, you know, that they
want to, you know, integratethis into their own lives, into
their own actions, how can they,you know, encourage others?
I know, within our group, we'vetalked about that and we're
(31:41):
just getting started on someideas.
What do you recommend tolisteners who are saying, hey, I
really like this?
Speaker 3 (31:49):
you know, and even to listeners who are going are
going, well, I don't know.
Yeah, it'd be kind of nice, butgosh, how can they ever do it?
Um, because a lot of us havethat skepticism about
accomplishing anything, this,this, um dramatic, this uh bold,
this filled, filled with it, asit is, with integrity, and I
think the first thing that Iwould say that's really
(32:11):
worthwhile doing is buying theand reading the book.
It's called the Three Domainsof Freedom and it's a really
simple see if I've got one hereon the desk.
It's just, it's a book ofwisdom.
I think it's really, you cansee, it's really short and
inspiring.
The Three Domains of FreedomEach moment is yours, your life
(32:33):
is yours and civilization isyours, and it touches on a lot
of the themes we're doing and itleads from a personal care and
personal integrity, leads fromthat into civilization, and then
it leads to the fiat movement.
So it gives you a real, realunderstanding, a background and
a way of talking about it withother people.
(32:54):
So that's that's really helpful, just to have that kind of of
argument and and depth ofthinking about it, and it will
stir up thinking for yourself.
Um, do a book club, have peopletalk about it, debate it and um
, and then there are just somany other things that we've
thought of to do.
One of the things I did herewith my 20 year old daughters
(33:15):
and their best friends, aroundthe kitchen table and we call it
a kitchen table conversationand what we did was we showed
them the fiat language.
A fiduciary standard isrequired of all institutions,
whether they're governmental,corporate or non-profit, to
(33:38):
place the interests of the truth, people, the planet and
democracy ahead of their ownself-interest, ahead of their
own self-concern.
And we asked them to reflect onwhat their life would be like.
Let's just stay with the vision.
What would your life be like ifthe world were like this, if
(34:00):
all institutions weretrustworthy?
How would your life change?
And there were some amazingthings that people the kids said
well, I'd relax, you know, Icould feel more at ease, I'd be
more happy.
Someone said, one person saidand there was nods around the
table because these were allyoung women well, I consider
(34:25):
maybe having children after all,and that was a shock to my wife
and I just hearing that thatthey've assumed that they're in
a dystopian kind of world withthe planet failing and democracy
failing and they're questioningwhether bringing more people
into the world is right to do so.
(34:46):
A kitchen table conversation isa wonderful thing.
Spread the vision.
What would it feel like?
And we've got a great website,fiduciaryinallthingscom, or you
can go on my own website,georgekindercom, and find it,
and there are lots of thingsthere that you can see that you
could do.
One of them you can buy thebooks in bulk for like half
(35:09):
price and then give them away.
It's a wonderful way ofspreading the message and
getting people thinking aboutthis.
It's important that we spreadthe vision rather than try to
figure out how can we do it.
Yet If everybody has the vision, it's like getting a man on the
moon.
We'll figure out how we'recreative and inventive and
(35:31):
incredibly smart creatures.
We'll figure out how we'recreative and inventive and
incredibly smart creatures.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
We'll figure out how yeah, yeah, and I think at the
core we've talked about this isthat everybody does want help.
Is there very few people whowould, of people are going to
want to help and to do what?
they can.
But what you said is to placeothers before your own
(36:06):
self-interest.
That can be very tough forpeople.
That can be very tough forpeople.
So you know, just real quickly,before we wrap up, is you know,
do you have any tips for peopleyou know who are kind of, you
know, hesitant to placethemselves?
I mean to place others before?
Speaker 3 (36:25):
their own personal self-interest if they're
hesitating there.
Yeah, I think that one of thethings we have on the website is
signing a pledge, and it's nota pledge to be perfect, it's not
a pledge to place everybodyahead of yourself, it's a pledge
to support that this reallyshould be the way that our
(36:48):
structures work.
And so to start by kind ofmaking that pledge, just taking
that step and saying, yeah, Iagree, this is how things should
work, and then just begin toreflect when you see yourself
perhaps in a complex, conflictedsituation, just you know, think
(37:11):
more and listen more to thealternative of what would be.
Just to think what would beplacing other people, or your
clients or your customers, whatwould be, or place your spouse.
One of the things I've learnedand it's made for a great
relationship is that if youplace your spouse, your partner,
(37:33):
first, if you really want themto succeed, well, wow, what an
incredible life you have.
It's the greatest asset in afamily is to know that your
partner is really living afulfilled life.
So those would be some of thethings I would think of Tony.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
That's, that's awesome and that's great advice
and I think for all of us whohave kids, you know, is we
automatically?
Well, not automatically, butmost people, you know they'll do
anything for their kids and tosee their kids succeed, and it
gives, and I think that maybethat's a thing is to remember.
You can apply that feeling toother areas.
You know there's nothing likevolunteering.
(38:17):
I know that personally I foundvolunteering very rewarding.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
And it.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
You know doing these things does come back to you.
We probably don't want to talkabout karma in this episode, but
you know there is.
You know you do get rewards, asyou mentioned, in intangible
ways by helping others.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Yeah, and the kids is such a great example.
I mean because we do.
We feel like they come first inso many ways and we're kind of
even stunned by it in our earlydays perhaps.
But imagine if everyinstitution treated humanity as
(39:03):
if humanity were their children.
So of course they would tellthe truth in all their
advertising and everything theydo.
Of course they would supporthumanity's democracy, not buying
the democracy out from underthem.
So I mean, it would be anincredible thing and it's
(39:26):
possible, it's not.
People might say, hey, this isutopian.
Well, I don't think so.
I think it's the beginning ofhow a global civilization has to
work.
Without a system like this, aglobal civilization will fall
apart.
So if we have this kind of rulenow, we're at a beginning phase
(39:48):
where I think people will feelso much more trust in their
institutions that they will findgreater creativity, greater
entrepreneurial energy inside ofthemselves, greater engagement
with the world around them.
Cynicism that we all have allof us is a disease and it's
really caused by the fact thatwe don't underneath it all,
(40:12):
don't believe largely thatinstitutions will hold to their
best statements coming forward.
So imagine if we did not livein a cynical world but we lived
in a trustworthy world where,instead we trusted all those
things, where instead we trustedall those things, we'd see an
(40:34):
incredible amount of energysuddenly released in the planet.
That would be extraordinary allover the world.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Yeah, I love that and I think that's a great place to
wrap up.
You know you start to mentionis where people can learn more
about you and get involved withthe fiduciary and all things
movement.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
So you know, if you just quickly summarize that, and
maybe any social media channelswhere you're active, yeah, I'm
hugely active on LinkedIn andfairly active on Facebook and
active somewhat on Instagram aswell, and I think we're starting
Blue Sky is one of the thingswe're doing now too.
I think we're starting Blue Skyis one of the things we're
(41:12):
doing now too, but the thewebsites are really pretty cool
that I think, anyway, thatGeorge Kinder dot com has a lot
of things I've done.
I've been wildly creative inmany ways.
I started a movement infinancial services, but also I'm
a writer, a poet, aphotographer and and I've done a
(41:33):
rock and roll album on Spotifythat you can find.
That I did.
That's cool.
But on that site you'll seesomething on fiduciary in all
things.
You could also go.
If you just want to do thisfiduciary thing, go to the
website fiduciary in allthingscom.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
It's accessible from my website and also from just
going directly to it.
Yeah, and, of course, foreverybody watching and listening
, as always, there will be linksto all these resources and ways
to get in touch with George,follow him and the fiduciary and
all things movement.
So, george, thank you forjoining us today on the Get
Ready Money podcast.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Wonderful privilege, tony.
Thank you so much for invitingme.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Yeah, and thank you everyone as always, for tuning
into this episode of the GetReady Money podcast.
If you learned something todayto change the way you think
about the money and in this case, in your life, you know please
be sure to subscribe and to tella friend.
Until next time let's changethe way we think about money.
You
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