May 28, 2025 • 26 mins
• Dr. Simone Erdner's website: DearCoachBook.com
• Free eBook download of Dear Coach
• The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by Bell Hooks
***
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Gill 1918 Project, a podcast series by
coaches, for coaches powered by Gill Athletics.
Think of this as the Ted Talks of track and field coaching.
Short, insightful, and packed with valuable strategies to help
you grow as a coach. We'll bring in the once a year
track clinic straight to your ears daily.
Interested in creating your own episode?
Everyone's welcome to participate.
(00:21):
Check out the show notes below For more information.
Now let's get into today's topic.
So an example of this is this isthe team culture and you as an
athlete have to adhere to this culture.
And if you don't, we're going tolet you go because you're not a
good cultural fit. The issue with that is that
(00:41):
culture is so much deeper than that culture is when there is a
psychological component to it. So let's say you are a coach for
at the high school level, university level, whatever, and
these athletes come in and you are using culture in a very
prescriptive nature. This is the culture and you have
to adhere to it or else every single body, every person that
(01:07):
comes onto your team was born into their own respective
cultures. Not just said international
culture, but like I'll use myself an example.
I was born into a Southern Baptist southern home in the
state of Alabama. I identify currently as a
cisgender female. I'm white.
The only thing outwardly going against me is that I am, I do
(01:30):
present as a woman. So that's definitely had its
challenges. But for the most part, I I now
identify as non religious. I've identified as more
spiritual. All of these journeys, the
things that I grew up around, which also involve and
encapsulate the narratives that we learned growing up.
As a more specific example, I was taught in the church and
(01:53):
also living in the South that tobe a quote, UN quote, good
woman, meant to be meek, meant to be mild, meant to not be a
leader, meant to be submissive to men.
And what's funny is I'm none of those things, not in a like I'm
mad at men, but just in AI always felt like a perversion of
a good woman. And when I was younger, I
(02:14):
really, really fought to try like I thought something was
wrong with me. I tried to pray away how I
commanded space when I walked into a room.
I tried to never take leadershippositions and how this might
translate for you. Coaches that actually work with,
with women is I've had athletes before in a psychological
setting, working as a certified mental performance coach, that
(02:36):
when we're talking about confidence, some of them really,
really struggle because how we define confidence in the world
is very counter to the narratives we grew up with as
not all women, but some women grew up with on what being what
confidence meant. And for me specifically in some
of the athletes I've worked with, confidence is often a
(02:59):
like, well, I'm not supposed to be confident.
That wasn't taught to me. So you could be working with
athletes that maybe you're yelling at them to be more
confident. They have confidence issues, but
because of the culture they grewup in, it's not safe or
permitted to be confident as a woman.
They have to be all these things.
They have to be submissive, whatever it is.
So that's just one example. So your culture, to prescribe a
(03:23):
culture on to the athletes is the kind of #1 no, no, really,
your culture is built based uponthe bodies that currently
encapsulate it. And anytime you add a member or
you just subtract a member, the culture changes.
So it's less about this is the culture we've always had, this
is the tradition we've always had.
(03:43):
And it's more about coming together and talking about what
is the culture for each team andeverybody being on board with
it, What makes people feel safe,what doesn't make people feel
safe. So that was something that I
really read into into the book itself on.
It's not prescribing culture, but it is talking to the team
about what they want the cultureto be.
And that does include diversity,equity and inclusion.
(04:06):
That includes all the the multicultural factors that are
nuanced and beautiful within each team and making sure that
they are represented in a way that feels safe for each
individual member. So there was there was that
another thing that I also read talking about empathy is that we
(04:27):
have a lot and I love this. There is no, please do not read
into this that I'm shooting thisdown.
I think this is wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.
We've seen a rise in athlete mental health initiatives.
I love it. We have athletes that are openly
speaking about mental health, but I also think that we need to
talk about some of the reasoningwhy those mental health
(04:47):
initiatives came into play was because we had athletes that
were killing themselves. And So what I fear, and there's
research out there that's over in the UK of other research that
are spearheading this on coach burnout.
Maybe that resonates with you asa coach.
(05:09):
You're like, yeah, I'm burning acandle at both ends every day.
I can't spend time with my family.
There is really no work life balance.
Maybe I go really hard for 7 to 8 months and I get the quote UN
quote offseason. But I feel like I'm, I'm like a
bear and I'm hibernating during that time.
So I really don't get super quality time with my family.
(05:30):
So the coaching burnout is real.And what we fear is, are we only
going to care about coaching mental health initiatives?
When a coach martyrs their own life, when a coach kills
themselves because they can't handle it anymore?
A lot of what these athletes talking about when they shifted
into the empathetic approach was, well, when I when I try to
(05:53):
stand next to my coach and imagine what it was like to be
in his or her shoes. I can't imagine how hard it was
to get the diagnosis of a terminal cancer and then also
have to show up every day and coach.
I can't imagine what it what it even is like.
Maybe not even something that grand, but just every single
day, seven days a week, showing up, being there from 5:00 AM
(06:15):
until 6-7. They have a family at home.
The sacrifices they're having tomake.
Maybe you're not getting paid. That's my assumption.
You're not getting paid well. And because the hiring,
retention and firing process is largely determined by the XS and
(06:36):
OS, by the wins and losses that they're not even really
incentivized to care about theirown well-being.
They are just there to be like, we have to win, we have to win,
we have to win. Me being able to put food on the
table for my family is we have to win.
So to me, athlete mental health initiatives are just a Band-Aid
approach because so many of these athletes talked about the
(06:58):
trickle down effect, even as a mental performance consultant.
And I'm going to say something here that might, it's coming
from a place of empathy, but I got to say it.
We have to be honest to be able to have forward movement in my
years working in a mental as a mental performance consultant at
the collegiate level, at the professional level, at the
Olympic level, even some at the youth level, which I don't.
(07:20):
I'm not an expert in the youth level necessarily, but I've
dabbled, let's say so much of the athletes coming in with
confidence issues, with anxiety issues with whatever it might
be. I would go out on a limb to say
80% of those problems are being exacerbated by the coach because
(07:41):
the coach themselves doesn't have their own confidence under
their control, their own anxietyunder their control, their own
focus under control. They are burnt out.
They're burning the candle at both ends.
And because of that, their frustration might be a little
bit higher. More is at stake for a
particular game potentially. So they're coming in a little
bit more hot headed and that's not actually helping the
athletes optimal performance. It's not helping their mental
(08:02):
performance, it's actually hurting them more.
And so much of our sessions withathletes would be how they can
manage the coach, right? So it's not a how can we just
help you with your mental erformance?
It's how can we deal with the coach O it's a Band-Aid
approach. And I share that from such a
loving space because again, you have so much on your plate.
(08:25):
So how are we failing you? Not showing up for you?
And when I'm reading between thelines of these letters and
they're talking about the trickle down effect and how if
they didn't have to put energy toward trying to manage the
coach, they could put that energy towards their own mental
game, their own optimal performance that would actually
get you as the coach, the results you want.
So you can have a a higher winning season, you can get
(08:47):
better XS and OS out of the athletes.
So that's when I'm coming in being like this is interesting.
You know something more specifically, a couple years ago
I was looking into some coachingeducation materials for a
particular organization and I loved they had coach mental
coach well-being as one of the six modules, which was
(09:09):
wonderful. But optically the IT was the
last module. It was like, here, this is how
you can be a good coach. Module 1, module 2, module 3,
blah blah. Then it was like, Oh yeah, the
optics were Oh yeah, and please make sure you care about your
mental health. Well, to me, if I'm a coach and
I'm standing next to a coach trying to think, you know, what
would they be thinking here? You're just like, oh, lol, yeah,
(09:30):
sure care about my well-being. But we there's nothing else that
really hold you accountable to caring about your well-being.
The hiring, retention and firingprocess doesn't ask you about
your well-being and doesn't uphold you to that.
We don't have coach mental health initiatives out there to
the same degree we have athlete mental health initiatives.
So if we look at the communication, so the non verbal
(09:52):
communication at the systemic level, it is very much non
verbally communicating that we're going to say you should
care about your well-being, but we're not actually going to
support you through it. So one of the things again, when
I as an expert, not the expert, so I'm not diagnostic here, I'm
not prescriptive here is very much how can we match 1 to 1 the
(10:16):
athlete mental health initiatives to the coach mental
health initiatives and also createspace for them to happen.
Maybe that is hiring more certified mental performance
consultant, sports psychologist,licensed social workers within
the collegiate space, within thehigh school space to not only be
(10:38):
able to actually show up for theamount of athletes that are
there, but also to create a program that are for the
coaches. If we have more coaches
demonstrating to care about their mental health, talk about
those mirror neurons, how much is that going to permit and
(10:58):
actually demonstrate to athletesthat, oh look, my coach is a
powerful person and they also care about their mental health.
It's going to help bust the stigma.
It's also going to give us emotionally and mentally
healthier coaches. So something that is interesting
is that we're lacking resources.And I know a lot of coaches,
(11:20):
like I've seen it, it's like they'll get, maybe they get to
work early at 5:00 so they can get their work out in and then
work actually starts at six. So the coaches might be sitting
there caring about their physical health.
And and again, there is researchthat shows being physically
healthy and working out helps with depression, helps with
anxiety. Sure, right.
But we that cannot be the only intervention because if we don't
actually dive head on into the emotional, into the mental
(11:45):
aspect of what's going on. So not trying to come at it from
the physical, but coming at it from the emotional and the
mental, that's going to actuallyhelp us create mentally and
emotionally healthier coaches inand of themselves.
So this is not me talking about you being a means to an end,
because I can imagine that you might feel like that at times
because you were a means to an end for the athlete to perform
(12:08):
so you can get the wins, so you can keep your job.
But us dealing and talking to you, providing you resources as
a means in and of yourself, likeyou matter in and of yourself.
And I think this book, the journey that I took to writing
it, where I started out as, where I was coming in and being
really prescriptive, telling youwhat to get out of the letter to
(12:30):
what it's morphed into now, which is me calling you into a
conversation so that we can makea change.
A very necessary change that notonly cares about you, but that
cares about sport administrators.
Everybody at some point was an athlete once that then turned
coach, that then potentially turned sport administrator.
(12:51):
How can we open up channels of communication, healthy
communication that uses empathy,unconditional positive regard,
and authenticity so that we can actually see a cultural shift to
higher levels of optimal performance?
But optimal performance itself is the residual effect.
(13:12):
If we place winning and losing at the center, we are less
likely to actually achieve it ata level that we would like to.
But when we play psychological well-being and safety at as the
center focal point, healthier relationships, mentally stronger
coaches, a residual effect will be that we will see the optimal
(13:35):
performance results that we are wanting to see.
I understand that asking this shift is a very vulnerable one
because we largely live, especially, you know, I'm
speaking as a person who grew upin the United States of America,
that we live in a society that does not necessarily encourage
emotional maturity, mental health, especially for men.
(14:02):
Sport was created in the United States.
It was created for men, by men to produce better men.
And this goes back to when we saw Europeans that were coming
over to America and America was wanting to assimilate those men
to become better warriors withinthe military.
(14:24):
That's when sport was born so that we could physically work
out to the point that we could get people to be ready for
combat. So again, sport was built by men
for men to produce better men. Of course, we see Title 9 coming
in 1972. Love it.
It provided me opportunity as a woman.
But one of the issues that I also talk about is the fact that
(14:46):
when Title 9 came about, it was wonderful.
It provided access, but we didn't at the same time question
how sport was built. So then what we did is we asked
women to come in. We permitted that.
It was celebratory. Throw the confetti in the air,
love it, love it, love it. But then we were asking those
women to assimilate to a man's world without discussing how can
(15:10):
we create this space to be psychologically safe for all
involved. So it's not just saying oh we
need to care about women and men.
Y'all are the problem Because men, I am here to tell you
something. We have also failed you as a
society. You did not get the privilege
like some other people did to grow up to be emotional beings.
We are all emotional beings. Emotions are neutral.
(15:33):
We as a society have labeled them as good or bad, right or
wrong. That is not the case.
By doing that, we have actually been brushing emotions under the
rug that we can actually use to help fuel in an optimal adaptive
way our performance. So there's a book out there,
very powerful book. I recommend it to everyone.
So again, this isn't me just about promoting my book, but I
(15:55):
just feel very called to actually share this with some of
you. There is a book by bell hooks
their name. That's their pen name.
It's all lowercase BELL space hooks.
HO OK. S an African American feminist
scholar that died way too soon. I don't I don't cry for most
people that die that I don't know.
But I definitely cried when she died because the the knowledge
(16:18):
she brought, the empathy that she had towards men.
She's a fourth wave feminist and4th wave feminism isn't burning
your bras and saying that men are the problem and that we need
to shift from a patriarchy to a matriarchy.
She came in and said men are just as marginalized, but we
live in a society where we try to ignore that.
(16:40):
So men, boys become men through injury.
They become men through being the emotion being beat out of
you as a child. And so I'm I'm sharing this as a
way in the book that she wrote is called the will to change
men, masculinity and love. So bell hooks is the author.
The book is the will to change men, masculinity and love.
(17:03):
And it's everybody should read it, not just men.
It called me into a conversationas a woman.
It held me accountable to how I even implicitly am upholding A
patriarchal society and upholding a society that
actually causes less psychological safety.
And that's what I'm hoping my book, dear coach, what I Wish I
could have Told you Letters fromYour Athlete does because when I
(17:26):
sat another story that's coming to me right now, I was at a end
of the year banquet. I was sitting at a table of a
bunch of coaches. They were asking me how the book
was going. And I said, you know, I'm really
shifting into this empathy spacewhere we have really failed you
as coaches. And I'm trying to write the book
in a way that empathizes with you as a coach, not at a
(17:48):
societal level to say that let'sjust acknowledge and accept
where we are at right now, whichis that we are not as mentally
healthy as we can be. We're not as emotionally as
mature as we can be because you as a coach just have to show up
and perform. You have to swallow whatever
really hard news that you got orchallenging thing you're dealing
(18:09):
at home and you just have to show up and coach.
And one of these coaches, their eyes started watering.
They took their glasses off and they were wiping their eyes.
And I said, what's coming up foryou?
And he was like, I've never had somebody acknowledge.
And then they went into this story and they started sharing
with the other coaches that a former athlete of theirs had
recently passed away, but nobodyreally knew about it.
And he didn't feel comfortable bringing it up because he didn't
(18:30):
know how it would be received. And he felt this pressure that
he needed to be strong for the athletes.
And, and I just that moment for me was very validating because I
felt like, yes, absolutely. How much and maybe some of you
are resonating with us. And I really feel like I'm
(18:52):
getting emotional talking about this because I'm so sorry.
And this is what's really fueling my passion is wanting to
show up for you better. And I hope when you read the
book, dear Coach, what I wish I could have told you, letters
from your athletes, that you read it from an objective space,
that you read it from AI, wrote this to call us all into a
(19:15):
conversation to discuss changes that we need to make.
And I would love as we move forward beyond these podcast
episodes for us to actually get around a table and discuss
changes. And some of those changes, as I
spoke about, are the need for coach mental health initiatives
at maybe even at least matching what we're doing for athletes,
if not allowing more space for them, rediscussing the
(19:39):
parameters that are around the hiring, retention and firing
process of coaches. I, I provide an example and I'm
by no means saying that this is the actual thing we need to do.
But as a professor, I have into the course evaluations from the
students. And I understand that there,
there's some nuances there, likeas a professor, I don't have
that students every single year,but but this is something I
would bring to the table to say,hey, like, how could we maybe
(20:02):
use this mechanism that we use in academia?
And let's change it some, of course.
But but what? How might that be able to help
let athletes feel like they havemore voice and their voices
actually do matter to where we have at the end of the year,
evaluations for coaches asking specific questions that are
informed by research, that are informed by the humanistic
(20:23):
approach. So that we do evaluate our
coaches on how much they're using a humanistic approach.
And if they're really getting a failing letter grade on treating
these athletes with dignity and empathy and unconditional
positive regard and authenticity, then should they
be coaching because is it worth it?
To what extent? And I'm not saying we should
(20:44):
throw wins and losses out. I mean, that's some of what
makes sport a beautiful place. But to martyr athletes bodies
and their own mental health and their own emotional well-being
just to get the win and coaches bodies it, it begs the question
of is it how much are we centering the win off the backs
(21:07):
of somebody's bodies? And some of these letters do
discuss. They're written retroactively,
some of them, and they do talk about the damage that sport that
the coach, because they weren't held to these humanistic
standards still have upon them today.
And maybe you resonate too. Maybe you had a really abusive
coach situation and there's things that are still coming up
(21:28):
for you. So again, this book is not
prescriptive in nature. It offers some of my feedback on
things that the shifts that I think we need to change
culturally. It does offer a good amount of
research that's entered to support my claims.
But I do would love for you to read the book.
(21:49):
Dear coach, what I wish I could have told you Letters from your
athlete that's written by me, Doctor Sarah Urdner.
And you can purchase the book anywhere that that's your
preference of purchasing it. I also have a website
calleddearcoachbook.com. Pretty simple, something that I
worked really hard on with my publisher was actually getting
(22:10):
and I'm very proud and excited to tell you all this.
You can find this both on my website.
I'm also going to share it and hopefully have it in the show
notes. Just a separate link.
So it's a link to a free e-book download.
So I just transitioned into being an e-book reader and I
still miss my physical books, but I live in a 500 square foot
cabin with my partner and three animals.
(22:31):
Like we really have to live a minimalist lifestyle.
So this ebook has really been great for me.
I hope if you have one, just know that there's a free
download for you. You can find it on the website
dearcoachbook.com. If you go to it, Scroll down
just a little bit. You'll see that in the kind of
the middle of that homepage on the right hand side, there's the
(22:52):
link for you to download, but I'm also going to hopefully
share it and have that link separate for you to download
yourself if you would like. You're more than welcome on the
Dear coachbook.com. There's a way for you to get in
contact with me If you wanted tocontinue this discussion, if you
want to talk about having one-on-one mentorship sessions
with me to work with you as a coach on how to twofold enhance
(23:15):
your optimal performance as a performer yourself.
So you also have focus, confidence, motivation, anxiety,
all those things. So let's talk about working on
you as a performer yourself and that can trickle down to your
athletes. But also just discussing your
coaching philosophy, talking about the book itself.
If you even want to talk about there's things on the the
(23:37):
website dearcoachbook.com. You can order the book in bulk.
They're all signed copies by me.If you want to start a book club
with other coaches that are in your community, if you want to
bring me in, I love book clubs. Oh my gosh, again, I feel like I
am a facilitator. I am not a prescriber of what we
should do. Let's facilitate a space where
(23:59):
we can come together and really feel empowered to make this
change. So if you want to bring me in
for a one off, like let's do a book club and all come together
and chat, I would also love to do that.
There's a multitude of ways thatI would love to be engaged with
you and your team. So you can go to
dearcoachbook.com. You can get in contact with me
that way. You can order the book from
(24:20):
there and you can also download the free e-book for you to be
able to again access issues. You know, we're we're living in
a fun little time right now withinflation.
So if if that free e-book is foryou, you can share that link far
and wide. Please, please, please.
But I hope this episode has brought value to you.
And if you want to discuss more again, I am available to you and
(24:43):
I look forward to hearing from you.
And to end this episode, I'll, Ijust want to say wherever you
are, just take a deep breath in through your nose, maybe even
holding it at the top for a second and then even slower on
your exhale out your mouth and one more time for good measure
(25:11):
in through your nose, filling the entire capacity of your
lungs. And then when you're ready, at
your own pace, grounding yourself more in this moment, I
encourage you to stay with that rhythm, the deep inhale, full
exhale, at your own pace for however long you need.
(25:32):
And I wish you so much goodness and Wellness as you move into
the rest of your day. I am here for you.
I'm advocating for you as the coach as much as I'm advocating
for the athlete. I am advocating for sport as a
whole. I hope you have a wonderful rest
of your day. Hey gang, Mike Cunningham here.
Hey, I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Guild 1918
(25:55):
Project series. It's really my mission, my
passion to bring you massive amounts of value and I hope this
one hit the mark. The Gill 1918 Project is really
dependent on you if for you to build your own episode, to hear
your voice, to have your voice heard you have something to say
and teach other coaches out there.
(26:15):
So please get a hold of me, e-mail, text message, Twitter,
smoke signals, get a hold of me and let's help create your
episode of the Guild 1918 Project.
Hope you enjoy today, they will see you tomorrow.
Welcome to the Gill 1918 Project, a podcast series by
coaches, for coaches powered by Gill Athletics.
Think of this as the Ted Talks of track and field coaching.
Short, insightful, and packed with valuable strategies to help
you grow as a coach. We'll bring in the once a year
track clinic straight to your ears daily.
Interested in creating your own episode?
Everyone's welcome to participate.
(00:21):
Check out the show notes below For more information.
Now let's get into today's topic.
So an example of this is this isthe team culture and you as an
athlete have to adhere to this culture.
And if you don't, we're going tolet you go because you're not a
good cultural fit. The issue with that is that
(00:41):
culture is so much deeper than that culture is when there is a
psychological component to it. So let's say you are a coach for
at the high school level, university level, whatever, and
these athletes come in and you are using culture in a very
prescriptive nature. This is the culture and you have
to adhere to it or else every single body, every person that
(01:07):
comes onto your team was born into their own respective
cultures. Not just said international
culture, but like I'll use myself an example.
I was born into a Southern Baptist southern home in the
state of Alabama. I identify currently as a
cisgender female. I'm white.
The only thing outwardly going against me is that I am, I do
(01:30):
present as a woman. So that's definitely had its
challenges. But for the most part, I I now
identify as non religious. I've identified as more
spiritual. All of these journeys, the
things that I grew up around, which also involve and
encapsulate the narratives that we learned growing up.
As a more specific example, I was taught in the church and
(01:53):
also living in the South that tobe a quote, UN quote, good
woman, meant to be meek, meant to be mild, meant to not be a
leader, meant to be submissive to men.
And what's funny is I'm none of those things, not in a like I'm
mad at men, but just in AI always felt like a perversion of
a good woman. And when I was younger, I
(02:14):
really, really fought to try like I thought something was
wrong with me. I tried to pray away how I
commanded space when I walked into a room.
I tried to never take leadershippositions and how this might
translate for you. Coaches that actually work with,
with women is I've had athletes before in a psychological
setting, working as a certified mental performance coach, that
(02:36):
when we're talking about confidence, some of them really,
really struggle because how we define confidence in the world
is very counter to the narratives we grew up with as
not all women, but some women grew up with on what being what
confidence meant. And for me specifically in some
of the athletes I've worked with, confidence is often a
(02:59):
like, well, I'm not supposed to be confident.
That wasn't taught to me. So you could be working with
athletes that maybe you're yelling at them to be more
confident. They have confidence issues, but
because of the culture they grewup in, it's not safe or
permitted to be confident as a woman.
They have to be all these things.
They have to be submissive, whatever it is.
So that's just one example. So your culture, to prescribe a
(03:23):
culture on to the athletes is the kind of #1 no, no, really,
your culture is built based uponthe bodies that currently
encapsulate it. And anytime you add a member or
you just subtract a member, the culture changes.
So it's less about this is the culture we've always had, this
is the tradition we've always had.
(03:43):
And it's more about coming together and talking about what
is the culture for each team andeverybody being on board with
it, What makes people feel safe,what doesn't make people feel
safe. So that was something that I
really read into into the book itself on.
It's not prescribing culture, but it is talking to the team
about what they want the cultureto be.
And that does include diversity,equity and inclusion.
(04:06):
That includes all the the multicultural factors that are
nuanced and beautiful within each team and making sure that
they are represented in a way that feels safe for each
individual member. So there was there was that
another thing that I also read talking about empathy is that we
(04:27):
have a lot and I love this. There is no, please do not read
into this that I'm shooting thisdown.
I think this is wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.
We've seen a rise in athlete mental health initiatives.
I love it. We have athletes that are openly
speaking about mental health, but I also think that we need to
talk about some of the reasoningwhy those mental health
(04:47):
initiatives came into play was because we had athletes that
were killing themselves. And So what I fear, and there's
research out there that's over in the UK of other research that
are spearheading this on coach burnout.
Maybe that resonates with you asa coach.
(05:09):
You're like, yeah, I'm burning acandle at both ends every day.
I can't spend time with my family.
There is really no work life balance.
Maybe I go really hard for 7 to 8 months and I get the quote UN
quote offseason. But I feel like I'm, I'm like a
bear and I'm hibernating during that time.
So I really don't get super quality time with my family.
(05:30):
So the coaching burnout is real.And what we fear is, are we only
going to care about coaching mental health initiatives?
When a coach martyrs their own life, when a coach kills
themselves because they can't handle it anymore?
A lot of what these athletes talking about when they shifted
into the empathetic approach was, well, when I when I try to
(05:53):
stand next to my coach and imagine what it was like to be
in his or her shoes. I can't imagine how hard it was
to get the diagnosis of a terminal cancer and then also
have to show up every day and coach.
I can't imagine what it what it even is like.
Maybe not even something that grand, but just every single
day, seven days a week, showing up, being there from 5:00 AM
(06:15):
until 6-7. They have a family at home.
The sacrifices they're having tomake.
Maybe you're not getting paid. That's my assumption.
You're not getting paid well. And because the hiring,
retention and firing process is largely determined by the XS and
(06:36):
OS, by the wins and losses that they're not even really
incentivized to care about theirown well-being.
They are just there to be like, we have to win, we have to win,
we have to win. Me being able to put food on the
table for my family is we have to win.
So to me, athlete mental health initiatives are just a Band-Aid
approach because so many of these athletes talked about the
(06:58):
trickle down effect, even as a mental performance consultant.
And I'm going to say something here that might, it's coming
from a place of empathy, but I got to say it.
We have to be honest to be able to have forward movement in my
years working in a mental as a mental performance consultant at
the collegiate level, at the professional level, at the
Olympic level, even some at the youth level, which I don't.
(07:20):
I'm not an expert in the youth level necessarily, but I've
dabbled, let's say so much of the athletes coming in with
confidence issues, with anxiety issues with whatever it might
be. I would go out on a limb to say
80% of those problems are being exacerbated by the coach because
(07:41):
the coach themselves doesn't have their own confidence under
their control, their own anxietyunder their control, their own
focus under control. They are burnt out.
They're burning the candle at both ends.
And because of that, their frustration might be a little
bit higher. More is at stake for a
particular game potentially. So they're coming in a little
bit more hot headed and that's not actually helping the
athletes optimal performance. It's not helping their mental
(08:02):
performance, it's actually hurting them more.
And so much of our sessions withathletes would be how they can
manage the coach, right? So it's not a how can we just
help you with your mental erformance?
It's how can we deal with the coach O it's a Band-Aid
approach. And I share that from such a
loving space because again, you have so much on your plate.
(08:25):
So how are we failing you? Not showing up for you?
And when I'm reading between thelines of these letters and
they're talking about the trickle down effect and how if
they didn't have to put energy toward trying to manage the
coach, they could put that energy towards their own mental
game, their own optimal performance that would actually
get you as the coach, the results you want.
So you can have a a higher winning season, you can get
(08:47):
better XS and OS out of the athletes.
So that's when I'm coming in being like this is interesting.
You know something more specifically, a couple years ago
I was looking into some coachingeducation materials for a
particular organization and I loved they had coach mental
coach well-being as one of the six modules, which was
(09:09):
wonderful. But optically the IT was the
last module. It was like, here, this is how
you can be a good coach. Module 1, module 2, module 3,
blah blah. Then it was like, Oh yeah, the
optics were Oh yeah, and please make sure you care about your
mental health. Well, to me, if I'm a coach and
I'm standing next to a coach trying to think, you know, what
would they be thinking here? You're just like, oh, lol, yeah,
(09:30):
sure care about my well-being. But we there's nothing else that
really hold you accountable to caring about your well-being.
The hiring, retention and firingprocess doesn't ask you about
your well-being and doesn't uphold you to that.
We don't have coach mental health initiatives out there to
the same degree we have athlete mental health initiatives.
So if we look at the communication, so the non verbal
(09:52):
communication at the systemic level, it is very much non
verbally communicating that we're going to say you should
care about your well-being, but we're not actually going to
support you through it. So one of the things again, when
I as an expert, not the expert, so I'm not diagnostic here, I'm
not prescriptive here is very much how can we match 1 to 1 the
(10:16):
athlete mental health initiatives to the coach mental
health initiatives and also createspace for them to happen.
Maybe that is hiring more certified mental performance
consultant, sports psychologist,licensed social workers within
the collegiate space, within thehigh school space to not only be
(10:38):
able to actually show up for theamount of athletes that are
there, but also to create a program that are for the
coaches. If we have more coaches
demonstrating to care about their mental health, talk about
those mirror neurons, how much is that going to permit and
(10:58):
actually demonstrate to athletesthat, oh look, my coach is a
powerful person and they also care about their mental health.
It's going to help bust the stigma.
It's also going to give us emotionally and mentally
healthier coaches. So something that is interesting
is that we're lacking resources.And I know a lot of coaches,
(11:20):
like I've seen it, it's like they'll get, maybe they get to
work early at 5:00 so they can get their work out in and then
work actually starts at six. So the coaches might be sitting
there caring about their physical health.
And and again, there is researchthat shows being physically
healthy and working out helps with depression, helps with
anxiety. Sure, right.
But we that cannot be the only intervention because if we don't
actually dive head on into the emotional, into the mental
(11:45):
aspect of what's going on. So not trying to come at it from
the physical, but coming at it from the emotional and the
mental, that's going to actuallyhelp us create mentally and
emotionally healthier coaches inand of themselves.
So this is not me talking about you being a means to an end,
because I can imagine that you might feel like that at times
because you were a means to an end for the athlete to perform
(12:08):
so you can get the wins, so you can keep your job.
But us dealing and talking to you, providing you resources as
a means in and of yourself, likeyou matter in and of yourself.
And I think this book, the journey that I took to writing
it, where I started out as, where I was coming in and being
really prescriptive, telling youwhat to get out of the letter to
(12:30):
what it's morphed into now, which is me calling you into a
conversation so that we can makea change.
A very necessary change that notonly cares about you, but that
cares about sport administrators.
Everybody at some point was an athlete once that then turned
coach, that then potentially turned sport administrator.
(12:51):
How can we open up channels of communication, healthy
communication that uses empathy,unconditional positive regard,
and authenticity so that we can actually see a cultural shift to
higher levels of optimal performance?
But optimal performance itself is the residual effect.
(13:12):
If we place winning and losing at the center, we are less
likely to actually achieve it ata level that we would like to.
But when we play psychological well-being and safety at as the
center focal point, healthier relationships, mentally stronger
coaches, a residual effect will be that we will see the optimal
(13:35):
performance results that we are wanting to see.
I understand that asking this shift is a very vulnerable one
because we largely live, especially, you know, I'm
speaking as a person who grew upin the United States of America,
that we live in a society that does not necessarily encourage
emotional maturity, mental health, especially for men.
(14:02):
Sport was created in the United States.
It was created for men, by men to produce better men.
And this goes back to when we saw Europeans that were coming
over to America and America was wanting to assimilate those men
to become better warriors withinthe military.
(14:24):
That's when sport was born so that we could physically work
out to the point that we could get people to be ready for
combat. So again, sport was built by men
for men to produce better men. Of course, we see Title 9 coming
in 1972. Love it.
It provided me opportunity as a woman.
But one of the issues that I also talk about is the fact that
(14:46):
when Title 9 came about, it was wonderful.
It provided access, but we didn't at the same time question
how sport was built. So then what we did is we asked
women to come in. We permitted that.
It was celebratory. Throw the confetti in the air,
love it, love it, love it. But then we were asking those
women to assimilate to a man's world without discussing how can
(15:10):
we create this space to be psychologically safe for all
involved. So it's not just saying oh we
need to care about women and men.
Y'all are the problem Because men, I am here to tell you
something. We have also failed you as a
society. You did not get the privilege
like some other people did to grow up to be emotional beings.
We are all emotional beings. Emotions are neutral.
(15:33):
We as a society have labeled them as good or bad, right or
wrong. That is not the case.
By doing that, we have actually been brushing emotions under the
rug that we can actually use to help fuel in an optimal adaptive
way our performance. So there's a book out there,
very powerful book. I recommend it to everyone.
So again, this isn't me just about promoting my book, but I
(15:55):
just feel very called to actually share this with some of
you. There is a book by bell hooks
their name. That's their pen name.
It's all lowercase BELL space hooks.
HO OK. S an African American feminist
scholar that died way too soon. I don't I don't cry for most
people that die that I don't know.
But I definitely cried when she died because the the knowledge
(16:18):
she brought, the empathy that she had towards men.
She's a fourth wave feminist and4th wave feminism isn't burning
your bras and saying that men are the problem and that we need
to shift from a patriarchy to a matriarchy.
She came in and said men are just as marginalized, but we
live in a society where we try to ignore that.
(16:40):
So men, boys become men through injury.
They become men through being the emotion being beat out of
you as a child. And so I'm I'm sharing this as a
way in the book that she wrote is called the will to change
men, masculinity and love. So bell hooks is the author.
The book is the will to change men, masculinity and love.
(17:03):
And it's everybody should read it, not just men.
It called me into a conversationas a woman.
It held me accountable to how I even implicitly am upholding A
patriarchal society and upholding a society that
actually causes less psychological safety.
And that's what I'm hoping my book, dear coach, what I Wish I
could have Told you Letters fromYour Athlete does because when I
(17:26):
sat another story that's coming to me right now, I was at a end
of the year banquet. I was sitting at a table of a
bunch of coaches. They were asking me how the book
was going. And I said, you know, I'm really
shifting into this empathy spacewhere we have really failed you
as coaches. And I'm trying to write the book
in a way that empathizes with you as a coach, not at a
(17:48):
societal level to say that let'sjust acknowledge and accept
where we are at right now, whichis that we are not as mentally
healthy as we can be. We're not as emotionally as
mature as we can be because you as a coach just have to show up
and perform. You have to swallow whatever
really hard news that you got orchallenging thing you're dealing
(18:09):
at home and you just have to show up and coach.
And one of these coaches, their eyes started watering.
They took their glasses off and they were wiping their eyes.
And I said, what's coming up foryou?
And he was like, I've never had somebody acknowledge.
And then they went into this story and they started sharing
with the other coaches that a former athlete of theirs had
recently passed away, but nobodyreally knew about it.
And he didn't feel comfortable bringing it up because he didn't
(18:30):
know how it would be received. And he felt this pressure that
he needed to be strong for the athletes.
And, and I just that moment for me was very validating because I
felt like, yes, absolutely. How much and maybe some of you
are resonating with us. And I really feel like I'm
(18:52):
getting emotional talking about this because I'm so sorry.
And this is what's really fueling my passion is wanting to
show up for you better. And I hope when you read the
book, dear Coach, what I wish I could have told you, letters
from your athletes, that you read it from an objective space,
that you read it from AI, wrote this to call us all into a
(19:15):
conversation to discuss changes that we need to make.
And I would love as we move forward beyond these podcast
episodes for us to actually get around a table and discuss
changes. And some of those changes, as I
spoke about, are the need for coach mental health initiatives
at maybe even at least matching what we're doing for athletes,
if not allowing more space for them, rediscussing the
(19:39):
parameters that are around the hiring, retention and firing
process of coaches. I, I provide an example and I'm
by no means saying that this is the actual thing we need to do.
But as a professor, I have into the course evaluations from the
students. And I understand that there,
there's some nuances there, likeas a professor, I don't have
that students every single year,but but this is something I
would bring to the table to say,hey, like, how could we maybe
(20:02):
use this mechanism that we use in academia?
And let's change it some, of course.
But but what? How might that be able to help
let athletes feel like they havemore voice and their voices
actually do matter to where we have at the end of the year,
evaluations for coaches asking specific questions that are
informed by research, that are informed by the humanistic
(20:23):
approach. So that we do evaluate our
coaches on how much they're using a humanistic approach.
And if they're really getting a failing letter grade on treating
these athletes with dignity and empathy and unconditional
positive regard and authenticity, then should they
be coaching because is it worth it?
To what extent? And I'm not saying we should
(20:44):
throw wins and losses out. I mean, that's some of what
makes sport a beautiful place. But to martyr athletes bodies
and their own mental health and their own emotional well-being
just to get the win and coaches bodies it, it begs the question
of is it how much are we centering the win off the backs
(21:07):
of somebody's bodies? And some of these letters do
discuss. They're written retroactively,
some of them, and they do talk about the damage that sport that
the coach, because they weren't held to these humanistic
standards still have upon them today.
And maybe you resonate too. Maybe you had a really abusive
coach situation and there's things that are still coming up
(21:28):
for you. So again, this book is not
prescriptive in nature. It offers some of my feedback on
things that the shifts that I think we need to change
culturally. It does offer a good amount of
research that's entered to support my claims.
But I do would love for you to read the book.
(21:49):
Dear coach, what I wish I could have told you Letters from your
athlete that's written by me, Doctor Sarah Urdner.
And you can purchase the book anywhere that that's your
preference of purchasing it. I also have a website
calleddearcoachbook.com. Pretty simple, something that I
worked really hard on with my publisher was actually getting
(22:10):
and I'm very proud and excited to tell you all this.
You can find this both on my website.
I'm also going to share it and hopefully have it in the show
notes. Just a separate link.
So it's a link to a free e-book download.
So I just transitioned into being an e-book reader and I
still miss my physical books, but I live in a 500 square foot
cabin with my partner and three animals.
(22:31):
Like we really have to live a minimalist lifestyle.
So this ebook has really been great for me.
I hope if you have one, just know that there's a free
download for you. You can find it on the website
dearcoachbook.com. If you go to it, Scroll down
just a little bit. You'll see that in the kind of
the middle of that homepage on the right hand side, there's the
(22:52):
link for you to download, but I'm also going to hopefully
share it and have that link separate for you to download
yourself if you would like. You're more than welcome on the
Dear coachbook.com. There's a way for you to get in
contact with me If you wanted tocontinue this discussion, if you
want to talk about having one-on-one mentorship sessions
with me to work with you as a coach on how to twofold enhance
(23:15):
your optimal performance as a performer yourself.
So you also have focus, confidence, motivation, anxiety,
all those things. So let's talk about working on
you as a performer yourself and that can trickle down to your
athletes. But also just discussing your
coaching philosophy, talking about the book itself.
If you even want to talk about there's things on the the
(23:37):
website dearcoachbook.com. You can order the book in bulk.
They're all signed copies by me.If you want to start a book club
with other coaches that are in your community, if you want to
bring me in, I love book clubs. Oh my gosh, again, I feel like I
am a facilitator. I am not a prescriber of what we
should do. Let's facilitate a space where
(23:59):
we can come together and really feel empowered to make this
change. So if you want to bring me in
for a one off, like let's do a book club and all come together
and chat, I would also love to do that.
There's a multitude of ways thatI would love to be engaged with
you and your team. So you can go to
dearcoachbook.com. You can get in contact with me
that way. You can order the book from
(24:20):
there and you can also download the free e-book for you to be
able to again access issues. You know, we're we're living in
a fun little time right now withinflation.
So if if that free e-book is foryou, you can share that link far
and wide. Please, please, please.
But I hope this episode has brought value to you.
And if you want to discuss more again, I am available to you and
(24:43):
I look forward to hearing from you.
And to end this episode, I'll, Ijust want to say wherever you
are, just take a deep breath in through your nose, maybe even
holding it at the top for a second and then even slower on
your exhale out your mouth and one more time for good measure
(25:11):
in through your nose, filling the entire capacity of your
lungs. And then when you're ready, at
your own pace, grounding yourself more in this moment, I
encourage you to stay with that rhythm, the deep inhale, full
exhale, at your own pace for however long you need.
(25:32):
And I wish you so much goodness and Wellness as you move into
the rest of your day. I am here for you.
I'm advocating for you as the coach as much as I'm advocating
for the athlete. I am advocating for sport as a
whole. I hope you have a wonderful rest
of your day. Hey gang, Mike Cunningham here.
Hey, I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Guild 1918
(25:55):
Project series. It's really my mission, my
passion to bring you massive amounts of value and I hope this
one hit the mark. The Gill 1918 Project is really
dependent on you if for you to build your own episode, to hear
your voice, to have your voice heard you have something to say
and teach other coaches out there.
(26:15):
So please get a hold of me, e-mail, text message, Twitter,
smoke signals, get a hold of me and let's help create your
episode of the Guild 1918 Project.
Hope you enjoy today, they will see you tomorrow.
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