BONUS: OG Guest #10 Chad Gunnelson-Univ of Dubuque

Originally published March 18th, 2020, we're bringing back our OG guests to uplift and honor the trust and courage they had to be our very first guests!

We're publishing the first 10 Gill Connections Podcast guests EVER each Thursday from Aug 29th until Oct 31st. ENJOY!

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
I hope you've been enjoying the OG bonus series.
We've been running since August 29th.
This is the last one. This is number 10.
It's been interesting for me to see after five years, the
improvements, the changes we've made in the podcast.
Certainly the audio has gotten alot better.
This one. Number 10 here, Chad Gunnelson,
at this time, he was the head coach of the University of

(00:22):
Dubuque. This was our first non in person
interview. So this was actually conducted
over the phone over an app through what was then called
Anchor. So again, audio quality is not
as great as it is today. You know, we do video now as
well today. We continue to evolve just like
you do in your track coaching career.
We continue to evolve, continue to improve 1% every day.

(00:45):
And so, so grateful to just see the growth of the podcast and to
see these young men and women who are in the coaching
profession where they've gone over the past four, five years
as well. Gunny, Chad Gunnelson here, not
at the University of Dubuque anymore, at Augustana
University, doing a great job and just super proud that he
trusted me to sit down and talk about his journey in coaching

(01:06):
track and field. So this is it.
This is the last OG series. We're going to come up with
another bonus series as we get closer to USTFCCCA.
We'll rerun the five minute interviews that we do live
there. We'll be doing that again.
Spoiler alert, we'll be doing live interviews at USTFCCCA 2024
down in OR. Lando but right now, OG series

(01:27):
#10 the wise, the wonderful Mr. Chad.
Gunny Gunnelson. Hey gang.
Welcome to the Gala FedEx Connection podcast where we
bring you the stories of track coaches from around the world.
I am your host, Mike Cunningham,and it is my honor and privilege
to bring you the stories of these men and women.
This week, I've got Chad Gunnelson.

(01:50):
He is the head coach of the University of Dubuque over in
Iowa. Just had a great time.
In fact, literally just recorded.
So this is hot off the the, the press.
Is that what they say? Had a great time learning about
Gunny's career, how he got into it.
Super unique. You know, he was a nine year
head coach now at, at UD and wasalways the head coach there.

(02:12):
So I think you'll enjoy that aspect of what led him to become
a coach and how he got to becomea coach and specifically how he
runs this program there at at UD.
And then, of course, because it is, you know, March of 2020, we
definitely discuss what's going on in our world right now, how
that's affecting coaches with the coronavirus and season in

(02:33):
schools being shut down. So found that extremely
interesting of how Gunny is really doubling down on his
leadership of how he runs his program in community and family
there in Dubuque, IA. So I think you'll enjoy this
one. Please help me welcome the wise
and wonderful Chad Gunnelson. All right.

(03:02):
Good morning. Good morning, Mike.
All right, we just jumped right into it, man.
So Chad, thanks for joining me here.
University of Dubuque, What let's start with, let's go back
to the beginning and talk about your coaching career.
How long have you been at at Dubuque now as the head coach?
Yes, this is my 9th year or ninth season at the University

(03:25):
of Dubuque and my 18th season overall coaching track and
field. So I've been in the position I I
was originally they're just the head men's track coach and head
men's women's cross country coach.
And then in my second year, I was head of both track and cross
country programs and then have transitioned to a director role
and now we have an incredible head cross country coach who

(03:48):
handles cross in the fall and works with all of our distance
runners. And so the program's evolved a
little bit, but, you know, essentially we're all still
fighting to try and win a championship.
And we've had a few, but you know, we're nine years in.
So nine years at Dubuque or wereyou and you said eighteen
overall, where were you the the nine years before?

(04:10):
Absolutely. I was.
I was a head high school coach before that, so I was at Madison
East High School. It's a public high school in
Madison, WI, approximately 1800 students and that was really my
first head coaching job. So I am I I was the head JV
football coach my first year there and then had boys and

(04:32):
girls track coach and had the chance to do that for six years
before getting hired on at UD. So are you?
Are you from Wisconsin? I am Madison.
Is my hometown so. Born and Born and raised in
Madison and had a chance to basically be home, stay home and
coach. And then I also owned a
business. I owned a sports performance

(04:53):
training franchise. So that was kind of my private
sector, you know, day job. And then coaching was really my
mistress in the afternoon. And I'm really glad I had the
chance to go and actually make aliving doing coaching because it
was the only thing that I wantedto do.
But something that kind of hurtsmy, I guess, professional growth
in my business because that's where I should have been in the

(05:14):
afternoons, but it's not where Iwanted to be.
So I sold my business away and came to UD and yeah, so that's
that. What you said you're from
Madison and you know one of the greatest schools around is UW.
Of course, all the Wisconsin schools, Eau Claire, Oshkosh's
are kind of actually amazing. Did you where did you go to
college at one of those? No, I mean, are you, are you OK

(05:35):
getting into a a long story regarding the college path?
Hey, we are here as long as you let me be here.
All right, So very, very uncommon trip to college
coaching my college coaching position.
So I I originally intended to enlist in the Army and I was

(06:00):
going to leave basically in November as all my friends left
for college after high school and had already gotten a waiver.
I had a plate in 16 screws in myleg and.
How did that happen? Skiing accident in 6th grade
that's. Very.
That's so Wisconsin. And ended up getting that plate
removed. And so I had a couple other

(06:21):
injuries that I had been through.
And so I had a bunch of waivers,but I was still, you know, in a
position to go and serve my country for four years.
I had chosen my job, Cav Scout. My first station assignment
after training was going to be South Korea.
And so I had the next four yearsof my life planned out and was
very excited. Well, a JV or sophomore football

(06:42):
coaching accident, one of our athletes ended up tearing my
MCL, blowing out my knee two weeks before I was supposed to
leave. And so I got permanently
disqualified for military service because I'd already used
up all my physical waivers and. So I was like, well, there's
only so many. Yeah, it's time to go.

(07:02):
You know it's time to go back toschool.
So I ended up going take took that year off and I went to
Southwest Minnesota State to play football.
So Marshall, MN went up there. My best friend was at MATC and
couldn't pass clearing house andhe was very good.
He was 63290, ran A-47. And, you know, we both went up

(07:24):
there and we're grateful for theopportunity to go play some
scholarship football. And so after our first season,
the whole coaching staff got fired and we, you know,
transition to the new staff basically to kind of save all of
us a lot of time and me a lot ofbad memories.
It it wasn't at all what I originally planned on doing and

(07:47):
wanted to do, so I I went through that next season.
What was college? Not all you you thought it
would. Be no college was playing
football in college college was incredible and college football
was incredible like I loved it. I, I loved school, was doing
great in school, but the coaching staff that came in
really they, I mean, I'm so grateful because they taught me

(08:08):
so many lessons and my position coach made me realize the type
of coach that I would never, ever want to be.
And so I transferred back home, went to UW Madison for a
semester, but it's just too big.I mean, 40,000 students and it's
amazing. And so then I transferred to
Whitewater and in Whitewater I coached, student coached the

(08:30):
their football team the first year that they started their
national run. So 2005 that fall, I was a
student assistant coach for their team and we went to the
national title game, played Mount Union just got shredded by
Pierre Garzone. I don't know if you know that
name. Obviously we know him from the
NFL, but he went to the Union and he was on Mount Union's team
that year that we went and played them.
And, and so from there at White,when I was at Whitewater, that

(08:55):
was when I had kind of built some connections and had a
chance to interview and get offered the job, the two jobs at
Madison East, both coaching JV football and then coaching track
and field. So another year went by I was
going to do in class at Whitewater.
I bought my business and something had to give doing
trying to commute to school for Madison, running my own business

(09:16):
and coaching sports both fall and spring.
I actually dropped out of college so figured figured I was
my own boss and my job security was pretty good.
So I was doing what I loved. And the whole thought originally
was to be a teacher and coach and well, now I was both coach
and I had my full time job. So stepped away from school and

(09:39):
six years later, spring of 2011,it was June, we're up at the
Wisconsin State track meet. Who was the offensive
coordinator at Whitewater when Iwas student assistant coaching?
There was now the head or the head football coach at the
University of Dubuque. He saw me at the state track
meet and their head track coach and head cross country coach had
been, you know, being, you know,let go or pushed out or asked to

(10:03):
resign or however we do things now.
And so he said, what do you think about being the next head
track coach at the University ofyou can?
I said, no way. I said, you know, that I haven't
finished my degree and I'm an undergrad degree.
And, and he said, well, well, you're going to get a call from
our AD and we're going to ask you to come down to campus and
we're going to find a way to work through that.
So the University of Dubuque gave me my job as a head head

(10:27):
college track cross country coach without an undergrad
degree. So the first, yeah, the first
senior class that I had at UD, those two seniors or two seniors
only on the team in 2012, that spring.
And they both graduated before me.
And then a year later, a year later in May of 2013 is when I
officially graduated with my undergrad degree.

(10:48):
And then now this last May is when I walked and then in August
finished my master's degree. So I've, I've fully, I've I've
officially like gotten both my degrees, undergrad and master's
degree from UD and both of them after I got hired as a coach,
so. You know, that's a great story
of perseverance for what you know, some people would look at

(11:08):
that story and be like, man, why, you know, why didn't he get
his degree at Southwest Minnesota or Madison?
You know, it's like, but you know, I I hear that it's like,
man, way to stay at it. I mean, that is amazing.
Well, coaching, you know, coaching was, you know, coaching
is kind of essentially what pulled me away from school.
It's like I didn't like I wantedto invest my time and energy in
our teams, you know, like our, our football team and our our

(11:30):
track team. And that's really all I wanted
to do was coach. And so, you know, I personally
felt that I made a a smart decision at that time with what
I, you know, had in front of me to step away from school and
knowing that school was always probably going to be something
that I would go back to at some point in time.
But I never, I expected it to belike night class or, you know, I

(11:51):
never expected it to be me as a undergrad student sitting in
classes on campus while being a head coach at a, a university.
And you have no idea like how grateful I am for the
administration at UD to be willing to take that chance, you
know, willing to take a shot on me and put me in that position

(12:12):
because I imagine a lot of them were challenged.
And I know just to be completelyhonest, a lot of faculty was
very upset. And there were certain folks
within academia at our institution when they found out
that I got hired under that pretense that I was like, I was
not an easy situation at all. So, you know, it it, it gave me
perspective on how important it was for me to finish my degree,

(12:33):
but also how important it was for me to honor the people who
gave me that chance, because notmany people ever would.
What do you think about that? And I think most colleges either
unofficially and some officiallyrequire all track coaches and
all coaches to have a degree because on one hand, it's like,
you know, there's no degree in, I guess there actually are

(12:53):
degrees in coaching now. But you know, you can definitely
be a successful coach without having a degree in a science.
There are plenty of coaches out there that are history majors
and philosophy majors and such that are excellent track
coaches. Yet there's also, I get that
understanding of, well, you're leading other student athletes.
You should be the model for that.

(13:13):
You should have the degree that you're trying to lead them
towards a degree as well. What?
What do you think about that? It's true that like there's
there's such a wide variety of degrees.
You know what I mean? Like you, you know, coaching is
really in a degree earned in theschool of Hard Knocks, not

(13:34):
experience and, you know, an academic path, you know, and,
and that was one, you know, yourquestion about modeling is like,
that was one thing that was presented to me was, you know,
what type of example are we setting to these young people
that they need to pursue this, you know, or have this done and
completed to achieve what they want to achieve?
And I, you know, I, I guess that's a really hard question to

(13:56):
answer because, you know, I, I don't know, the way I look at it
is I had, you know, I had the exact same amount of experience
that anybody else has before their first job.
You know what I mean? Virtually none.
Like they had that, you know, you have to, you have to
evaluate a person, not their credentials.
You have to evaluate a fit, you know, not a degree with someone

(14:21):
in your organization or your institution or your team.
And I think that they did that. I think they realized that the
things that they valued and whatthey wanted to see grown as a
program and kind of how that fits into the overall
university, like was went beyondsomething as simple as a piece
of paper. And so I just, I was very, very

(14:44):
grateful for them. And you know, in regards to kind
of the model for my team is like, I guess it's, it's really
just comes down to like passion and perseverance.
Like those are really the two only things, you know, that
really matter. I think anything that we do.
And I had a passion for coachingand I was willing to kind of
persevere through that. And with that and, you know,

(15:06):
they, you know, I was lucky enough to express how well I
could recruit, how well I could coach and bring people together.
I think that gave them the willingness to kind of, I guess
call it maybe a trial run or trial period while I was getting
my degree done. And then after that it was
pretty much, you know, I guess, you know, all copacetic, you

(15:31):
know. So say, don't say smooth
sailing. It's never.
Smooth. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was.
But I mean, it was, it was in line with, you know, where
anyone else would be, you know, so.
And what was the the getting degree a condition of continuing
with the job where they're like,hey, all right, we're willing to
take a shot, but man, you, you got to do some class that you
got to get your degree. Yes, absolutely.
So that was and it's like navigating that was challenged

(15:53):
too because some folks didn't want me in like the kind of
everyday, you know, undergrad classes.
Some folks wanted me to be more in a, a night school format or
in an independent study format. And my stance on it was like,
I'm the one who has to handle any type of stigma with this,
you know, directly. And so let's just find the way

(16:14):
to move for me to move towards graduation, you know, in the,
the best process possible for meto get the good degree that I
want and do well within the classes that I'm taking and, you
know, make an impact in them. And so, so I did, I did a
combination, I did some, I did some as kind of independent

(16:35):
study. I did some actually sitting in
the undergrad classes with, you know, a bunch of younger
teenagers, you know, and, and I did some in our adult
accelerated program as well. So I was, I was able to kind of
work through those, you know, multiple options there and get
it done. Your athletes.

(16:57):
I don't, I don't think I did. The team was the the the team
was very small. Back then, the odds were low.
Yes, the odds were certainly low.
So no, not that, you know, not directly.
And so I think that helped. And I really, I wasn't very

(17:17):
comfortable talking about it with anyone really.
And probably until this year. Like there's even some like
alums and, and some of my athletes who graduated, you
know, that you kind of have that, OK, they're 22 now and
they graduated and you kind of let go of all the, you know, the
secrets, you know, that you theycan hear now that they're,
they're graduates. And but this was one that it's

(17:40):
been hard for me. And I, I pretty much finally, I
guess probably in the last year as students have asked or, you
know, people always ask me like,oh, so I see you got your degree
at UD. Did you run at UD?
Like, no, you know, I didn't know.
Like tell me more. And so like I, I'm more open to
kind of expressing it because, you know, I don't know, I just,
it's, it's, it's, it's how it happened.
And so I can't change that. And like I said, I'm just, I'm

(18:03):
grateful And, you know, people can now judge.
I guess maybe it's because people can now judge based on my
performance as opposed to my credentials and when I was
hired. And so I guess I feel more
comfortable talking about. It Well, I certainly don't think
you have anything to be ashamed of.
Again, it's a great lesson really in the two words that you
said, their passion and persistence.

(18:25):
And you could easily still be a high school part time coach
because you probably couldn't teach obviously without a degree
or, you know, working in someoneelse's business or owning your
own business and still contributed to society.
And yet you stuck your neck out there and when and, and really
humbled yourself at that age to come back and be taught and get

(18:46):
a degree. Man, I think you you should be
applauded for that, man. I know it's been taking a long
time to maybe process that, but definitely something to be proud
of. That's that's awesome, man,
That's, that's really cool doingthese podcasting interview and
different coaches. You know, a lot of them I know,
and some of them I know really well.

(19:06):
But my favorite part is learningnew things.
Every everyone that I've interviewed so far, I've learned
something new that I had no idea.
That's that's that's my one for you so far.
Well, good, good, good. So nine years at Dubuque all is
the head coach. Yes, interesting.
What's it been? So that was your first time as a

(19:26):
head coach of a college, obviously because your first
college job. What have you learned in the
nine years? How, how, how, how are you doing
things differently today than you did the first year as it
relates to the the leader of your own program?
Oh, that's, that's such a good question.
And I'll tell you like that. I feel like there are more

(19:49):
adjustments, evolution that needs to occur now than even has
occurred over the nine years we've been doing this.
But I had, I had virtually no, Ihad no college experience in
recruiting, but my business was,you know, you know, basically
sports performance and fitness sales.
So I mean, there's a concept of recruiting there, you know, and,

(20:09):
but. I had no idea what to expect.
I had no idea really what I was doing.
And the biggest, I guess look atit, one of the most challenging
things for me in my career is I don't feel like I was ever part
of like for a long term, like a long standing period.
I was never part of a championship program.
So you know, when in high school, you know, we we won a

(20:33):
couple football games when I wascoaching, you know, we won a
championship once when I was at Whitewater, we went to the
national title game, but I was only there as a student
assistant. So like I never was ever part of
something that I could see. This is how you create long term
success. And so for literally nine
straight years and even today and even tomorrow, it is trial

(20:56):
and error. It is just constant trial and
error. And the things that I tried a
lot of in the beginning was to be like, to be very, very like,
I guess strict, organized, very,very structured, much more to
how I coached high schoolers. And over time, I have moved

(21:19):
towards more of a, you know, allow the team to guide how we
want this to go and like who we want to be and kind of give them
more umbrella, overarching direction and leadership and
allow like young adults to grow into adults and allow that
growth to be kind of part of ourvision and purpose as a program.

(21:42):
And I can tell you that going through that, even hearing
directly from them is like, I don't think that was like as far
as I went with that. I, I think it's time to go back
to more structure, more direction.
And it's, it's really hard finding a balance because like
I'm a firm believer in both. Like when you're talking about
developing everything from a technical skill to like a

(22:06):
communicate or like communication skill or
leadership, like more of the soft skills.
Anyone else use the term soft skill?
But like, I think all those things are learned better
organically, but the process in which it takes to have those
learned organically takes longerthan the time that I get with my
athletes. And so, you know, this is, you

(22:27):
know, those the changes are going to go more towards like
being much more direct with muchkind of stricter guidelines and
expectations and letting them find their own a kind of freedom
within that level of discipline rather than giving them freedom
and hope we find discipline, I guess.

(22:47):
And so that's really the biggestthing that I've learned from a
kind of a, a global thought or more of a holistic thought with
our, our team and our leadership.
But some of the important, very important lessons and changes
that we've made from year one tonow, you know, the first thing
that we did was we needed to getpeople involved.
And so the team, like I said, the team was small.

(23:09):
We only had two seniors. And so when we went to
recruiting, like it did not matter if you could run or jump
or throw or chew gum and even get on the bus at the same time.
And we just, we needed a team like we needed to have people
who were excited about being a part of who we were.
And so in year three at UD, we had 105 on the roster to start

(23:31):
season. And so now I will tell you like
the biggest thing that happened with that is many of the folks
that were initially excited about being a part of track and
field when they weren't necessarily serious about being
an athlete or we're really able to contribute on a championship
level as an athlete. Even though so many folks at

(23:53):
that coach have made such like different and bigger impacts on
our program over the years. You realize that it's a lot
harder for them to sustain a nine month season, basically a
year round commitment and to invest four years of their life
towards track and field goals ortrack and field purpose.
And so retention was not great with a lot of the athletes who

(24:17):
weren't serious athletes. And so over time we have changed
our recruiting kind of thresholdand our emphasis and focus on
impact performers and when we recruit.
And so kind of the, you know, I would say the middle of those
nine years, we spent a lot of time and energy on really,

(24:37):
really good athletes. And that as well was a big
challenge because it was kind ofat the like expense or without
kind of too much depth and thought at the person and the
teammate that they were. And so now the biggest things
that I tell all of my recruits that come on campus, all the

(24:58):
folks who want to try out for the team every year, and even
those people who are kind of being challenged themselves with
where they are in this process as an athlete on our team,
that's the most important criteria for you that I'm going
to evaluate you on. And being a part of our team is
how good of a teammate are you? The second most important

(25:18):
criteria is how much of A contribution can you make to the
team? Like so like, so not going all
the way back to like letting everyone on the bus, but going
back to the fact that we need people who are great teammates,
great ambassadors, just great people who are going to help
grow what we're trying to do as a team.
But we also, you know, we also at the end of the year are

(25:40):
evaluated in the simplest form of the rules of our sport.
And that's whoever scores the most points wins.
And so you have to be a great teammate and you have to be able
to contribute on the track. And so that's really kind of how
things have evolved for me. And what I've learned over time
is that we can't sacrifice the teammate for the points, and we
can't sacrifice points just to have a big team.

(26:02):
You know, we've got to be in a position to be a family and a
family that competes and competes really, really hard on
set. So what I heard over the nine
years and as the program evolves, there should be
changing, evolving motives and goals.
I heard when you first got thereyou were in bodies on the team

(26:25):
mode. I don't like you said yes, you
can't even you said. Warm bodies was said to me a
lot. Of times you made a funny, you
know, most people say chew gum and walk at the same time.
You you at least moved it one step further and said chew gum
and get on the bus. So at least you're already
thinking about, yeah? You had steps, you had steps to
the equation and it's a bigger dynamic, you know, So there's.

(26:47):
So you go from all right, we just need people and then it
sounded like you transitioned toOK, well, you know we are track,
we want to win. So then it sounded like it went
to more stats focused recruiting, OK, this kid can run
the 100m hurdles in this, this kid can long jump this,
etcetera. And then you evolved and I think
this is an important step as I've spoken with coaches around

(27:09):
the country and even throughout my my own former coaching career
is now there is an aspect of that iron sharpens iron.
So if I have a bad piece of iron, doesn't matter how fast
they are, it ruins the other four athletes because that's
what we're talking about here. And then we overall are not as
good as we could have been. That this kid was just a 10th of

(27:32):
a second slower, but a better person, a better teammate.
It's interesting. So how has that evolved?
How has that, what results have you seen in regards to your
placing in conference nationally?
Has that half followed upwards as well?

(27:55):
Well, our university hadn't won a conference championship since
the 60s in track and field and in 2017 our men won the indoor
conference championship and then2018 we were able to repeat go
back-to-back. So we won two indoor conference

(28:15):
championships on the men's side.Our women have finished as high
as third and they were a a perennial dead last program for
a long time. And so, and you know, last year
indoors, our men were were top ten in the nation at the
national meet and our women weretop 10.
They. Were 9th so so but what I'll

(28:38):
tell you is like the those two years that we won the men's
title in conference we we were still more on the contributor on
the track not good enough of a teammate situation.
And that's really what challenged you know me in

(29:01):
especially so in 2018 that second year when we repeated as
conference champs indoors. We had some issues at the
conference meeting in the hotel and it made me realize after we
had won that conference championship, I didn't feel like
we won anything. I felt, I felt I was frustrated,
angry, upset, disappointed and just I felt completely let down

(29:21):
by some young people who I trusted.
And I realized that, you know, there is far more to this than
winning the championship. And if I can't even be excited
or happy and our coaching staff can't be excited, happy and our
team has to now be like ashamed of things that happened through
the process of and kind of casting a shadow over a

(29:42):
championship. Like we have to do it right for
it to be what it truly can be like.
And so to actually feel this, you know, feel what could have
been this excitement of winning a second, you know, and
back-to-back conference championship and to have it not
even feel good, to be completelyhonest with you, made me realize
that we needed to start back from square one.

(30:02):
We're going to build this the right way.
And when we win, we will know that it's because we did
everything. Take a step back.
Yes, so. Winning, winning, winning
back-to-back conference championships actually made me
realize things that we were doing wrong, not things that we
were doing right. And so, you know, it was, you

(30:26):
know, just, we had, you know, we've, we've had some folks and
that haven't yet realized that the type of person that we are
does matter, not just, you know,how well we compete.
And, you know, I know the amountof hours and time that coaches
put in and the amount of time and energy that athletes put in.
Like when you're surrounded withpeople who you want to be

(30:49):
around, when you're surrounded with people who are gracious and
appreciate what they have and people who truly believe in each
other and fight for each other, it's a, it's such a better
experience. And I think such a a greater and
more like everlasting experienceto fight through that regardless

(31:10):
of the outcome. And so I was not willing to
sacrifice that anymore, regardless of how many points we
could score, you know, and so that's where we're at.
And that that's kind of how we've, we've revamped our
recruiting to address this issue.
We've revamped our kind of how we handle our team and our team

(31:30):
meetings and our team leadership.
So there's a lot of things that we've adjusted to basically say
at the end of the day, we reallylove doing what we doing what
we're doing, you know what I mean?
So like, and I think once we canall get everybody on that on
board and we can start getting, you know, we, I think we'll get
better people to buy into that. Then when championships come, we

(31:53):
know that we like, we truly won this championship because we had
a team collectively that bought into what we were trying to do
and we earned it. We didn't just have some people
who were there simply to do track, some people who are just
simply there for themselves, youknow, and some people who, you
know, just didn't, you know, really care for the things that

(32:14):
mattered. And it's going to make a
championship mean so much more when we get there again.
So they said that, you know, you're a collection of the five
people that are closest to you when it comes to your coaching
and your coaching philosophy. And and really for you going to
your coaching growth, specifically over these nine
years as the the leader of the program, there who are some

(32:37):
mentors that you've that you've that you have not even that
you've had that you had now thatyou know, you talk to you listen
to you bounce off ideas. Who's who's been influential in
in this growth for you? That's such a great question and
I'm so glad you asked it because, you know, it's, it's
those people that are also thosefive people that are also so

(32:58):
close to us that are the ones that we really mentioned on
these. Isn't it like they don't get,
they don't get the credit because they always get the
that, you know, the, the conversation, their nature?
To be that way too, though, you know what I'm saying?
They they don't, they're not looking for credit, but they,
they absolutely deserve it. So the, the person that I would
start with, so Jake Malm is our throws coach and he's our

(33:18):
recruiting coordinator and he started at UD as a graduate
assistant. So he, he threw jab at Minnesota
and so graduated from there, came to UD to do his master's
degree. And then we were lucky enough to
offer him a full time job after he was done with his two years
as a grad assistant. And so he, we literally went
from scoring 0 points in the throws to last year we won

(33:41):
outdoors, we won seven of the eight throwing.
And he's had he's had two national champions, a male and a
female, both in the shot put national runner up.
And he's just done an incrediblejob.
But he like he is someone who has like truly helped show.

(34:02):
And I think, you know, like track, track is usually this
like, unfortunately like this culmination of a bunch of
individual coaches about their individual athletes or
individual event groups that just happened to come together
on Saturdays. And it's not, there's not like
this like collective like pursuelike a really good programs do
this really, really well becausethey understand how everyone

(34:23):
coming together can help win titles.
And that's when you see these perennial powerhouses doing what
they do. But like he really helps, like
really helped kind of springboard me and my kind of
confidence towards building a true team rather than being a
head coach with a couple assistant coaches who just coach

(34:44):
their own things and do their own things.
And you know, and just his his like, just such like incredible
level of commitment to the program and commitment to
helping our team like be the best it could be as a team with
what he's done through his like recruiting, what he's done
through the throws group and howhe's changed their impact and

(35:06):
understanding, like giving examples.
So it's like, you know, hey, coach, what what is our chance
of winning a conference championship this year?
You know, we talked about this acouple weeks ago at our indoor
me. It's like, well, school X is
going to score over 100 points just in the distance events.
So we've got to make up that difference.
And it's like, well, they have how many events?
And we only had two. It's like, well, until we go

(35:27):
1234 in both the shot and the weight throw, we haven't done
enough. And like that's his stance.
And so like he, like he has helped be like my rock and my
right hand man and my biggest like supporter in making sure
that we can push team in a sportthat really is so broken when it

(35:47):
comes to operating as a team. And so that's, you know, so he's
and just, he's such a like he just, he's just a great kind of,
I guess what's the term kind of just great person to bounce
ideas off of. And he just, he's, he's helped,
he's made me a better coach, He's made me a better head
coach. He's made our program a better

(36:09):
program and just having him in the office every day and also
when he's out of practice, just knowing that you have someone
there who is pushing to make getto gain every piece of growth,
make every benefit they can and to move their athletes towards
being better leaders through that process.

(36:29):
It's just, it's really, really like uplifting.
And so when it comes to our program and our team, you know,
he's been there 7th through thisis his 7th year.
So he's been there most of the through most of this.
And you know, when it comes to when you talk about like what
Kobe Bryant says about finding excellence in applying that to
your life, you know, and, you know, being a true champion like

(36:52):
that, he's a man who knows that.And he, he, he just, and he
breeds that and grows that within his group.
And, and so he's he's really helped me to be a better.
Coach, you know, I don't, I don't know him as well as I know
you, but I've, you know, met Jake several times and and I
know you know what kind of program he came from with the

(37:12):
the Golden Gophers up there. But one of the words that you
said to describe him is exactly how I would describe him from
the outside. And that's the rock that you
know. Yeah, not seeing him.
Coach, I don't know his excitement level at coaching,
but like he seems like the type of person who is not going to
get too high, but at the same time and equally as important is

(37:35):
not going to get too low. He's going to be there nice and
steady in the bad times and the good times and seems like would
be AI bet he was a awesome teammate at Minnesota.
It has to have started earlier. Couldn't have just started when
he became began coaching. He had to have something
imprinted on him of just, you know, being there for other

(37:55):
people and being steady. So I I could that that word when
you said that rock was like, Oh yeah, that's, that's Jake mom
from everything I can see. Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's true. And he just, he's, he just, he
stays, he stays solid, you know,through everything.
And I'm like, I'm much more of an extrovert and emotionally

(38:18):
driven, which, you know, which I, I, I certainly like.
I think both of those things areneeded.
But you know, he's like I said, he just, he's helped, he's
helped keep me grounded and he through all the challenges and
the, the, everything that I've been through in these nine years
of kind of growing as a young head coach, to have a friend in

(38:39):
someone like that that you get achance to see and work with
every day. He's he's made my career better.
He's made my life better. And so I can mention five people
I've planned. I've got four more certainly to
talk about. But if you want like, there's
one at the top of the list. That's awesome.
So who let's go to the other side of the pendulum because you

(39:00):
know, you talked about Jake was a grad assistant there and his
was lucky enough the school was lucky enough and he was lucky
enough to come on as a full timecoach.
Who on the more mature side is there a coach that has been
coaching for twenty, 30-40 yearsthat you look up to, you bounce

(39:24):
ideas off of? Yeah, absolutely.
So our, our, our head men's soccer coach, Brad Johnson, he's
someone who, you know, realistically it's probably been
only in the last couple years, but kind of other, you know,
typically like it's usually justwater cooler type talk and
discussion. But you know, we, you know, have
beers together, hang out and have gotten to know each other

(39:45):
really, really well over time. But just through like more in
depth conversations as kind of the landscape of Division Three
recruiting and Division Three athletics.
And things have started to change.
Our conversations over the last couple years have really shifted
to more like proactive measures and, and evaluate evaluation of
ourselves. And I've learned so much about

(40:06):
Brad and what he's doing to create champions in his sport.
And you know, even though it's, it's, it's a, it's a smaller
group, it's men only. And it's, you know what you'd
call it a team sports, you know,like the things that he applies
and what he does with his program are universal in terms
of kind of building consistency and building success in my

(40:29):
opinion. And so, but both in both in like
in coaching and in life, he's been someone, he's just two, two
doors down the hall for me in our office building.
And so he's been someone as well.
And so yes, I don't even know ifhe's older than me, but he's he
was, he's been coaching at the college level certainly longer
than I have, you know, and he's had success and and won some

(40:50):
championships and has built an incredible young man.
And so he's certainly someone our head women's softball coach
at UD as well. Jeff Lamb.
He just came on staff a year anda half ago.
And so he's only been at you, I guess.
I don't even know if you can call this season a season, but
he's been he's been there for two seasons and he was actually
in town at Clark, but his approach as well.

(41:12):
And he coaches women only, you know.
And so being able to kind of take what I've learned and what
I hear from them and just our daily conversations and bouncing
ideas off each other has helped kind of shape and formulate what
we're trying to build and what we want to build that we can
help make a better impact in ourprogram.
And so outside of that, I would say like, there's there's, you

(41:34):
know, I Dan pass, you know, thatname.
I mean, and nobody in track and field doesn't know that name.
And I don't know if it's even cliche to mention him as a
mentor, but Dan has been, Dan has been someone I've had the
ability to kind of reach out to through Altus.
That's right, Center. When they said yeah, you did a

(41:54):
few of those. Right.
And then, yeah. And but also Kyle Hierholzer,
who has kind of brought Dan on and they do this coaches
council, it's a monthly kind of call this kind of open up the
doors to kind of talk more with Dan.
And the big area that I think everybody reaches out to Dan
about is usually like technical acumen, you know, it's sprints

(42:15):
and jumps and stuff like that. Dan has been the person who has
helped shape my opinion and stance on mindset and sport
psychology. And I've used so much of what he
has taught me and what we have discussed in educating my
athletes on that. And like the kind of his stat
air quote is like when you get to the Olympic final,

(42:38):
everybody's fast at that moment,you know what I mean?
So it's like you put you put not, you know, eight guys in a
heat that are running 98 and 100.
The separator in mental skills, you know that the big separator
is mental skills. And so he's helped me kind of
shape or shift my philosophy towards making sure that we're
more holistic with what we do and providing education to our

(43:01):
athletes about how to approach what they do with the right
mindset, not just with the rightskill or technique.
And then another man would be James Thomas, the he's the jumps
coach at Texas Tech. So he is my, I'm doing the high
jump masters endorsement and he's been my mentor for that.

(43:23):
But like, there's been so much more discussion around him and
like how he believes in what they do as a program and what
Texas Tech, Texas Tech is doing as a as, you know, an overall
team. And so just and being a parent
and everything else. And so I mean, those those are
really kind of the the couple close ones on campus and then

(43:47):
two of the ones abroad that I think it's kind of shaped how I
like, you know, I guess they kind of more shape my
accountability. Like those people, those five
people. Like those are the people you
think about like how like, how is Coach Johnson going to look
at me making this decision with my team?
You know what I mean? How is Coach Lamb, you know,
what is Jake going to think whenI send this e-mail out?

(44:08):
You know what I mean? Like, what would Dan say if he
saw how I coached in this moment?
Or what would James James think if like I chose to do this
instead of that right now with what's going on?
And so, you know, I those guys, those guys in terms of like
their, their level of ethics andmorality and just overall grasp

(44:31):
on the bigger picture is why I really truly appreciate those
guys because there is more to this than just coaching.
There is more to this than just track and field or our sport.
And they all believe that and help me move forward when that's
really sometimes a challenging task when you could just easily
go to practice and take a long jump.

(44:51):
But the truth is you got to teach life and life doesn't
score you points always at the conference meet, but your
bonuses and your future get, youknow, they they get your life
actually hinges on that. So they've helped me kind of
stay focused on what. Really we so that's a good point
You talked about. We can just go to practice and
coach long jump and we a lot of times when we're having

(45:12):
conversations as coaches, we're talking about our top long
jumper, top 5K person. We're always some of the top
athletes. And when you think about some of
the top business people, people,you know, so life goes on after
college athletics and you think about some of the top athletic
directors, top business owners, things like that, that were

(45:35):
involved in track. It's rare that they actually
were the top athlete as well. It's most of the time they were
just part of the team and we're just happy to be there.
But obviously that coach or coaching staff imparted in them
about contributing to the team and to life outside of just
being the best long jumper and things like that.

(45:56):
I'm thinking about like the guy that is the now CEO of Top golf
who is a now a Masters vaulter and things like that.
And he was not an he was not an athlete at all, but you know,
top athlete and but obviously coaches such as yourself
imparted on him about being a part of the team and
contributing and being a member of society in a positive way.

(46:19):
And you know, that guy is now, you know, he's running one of
the top hottest companies there are with Topgolf.
So just interesting. Yeah, I love that you mentioned
James Thomas. Like I kind of feel like he is
one of the most underrated coaches out there on the
Division One level. I think a lot of those Texas
Tech guys, they kind of get lostout in Lubbock and people don't
think about him very much. And I'm so happy when they won

(46:41):
the national title. But James specifically, I've
always kind of admired him from afar.
You know, he's quiet, does his job, does it really, really
well. Had a conversation with his
boss, Wes Kitley, I think it waslast year at Texas Relays.
And, you know, W just sung his praises.
He's like, man, In fact, he saidthis about this entire coaching

(47:01):
staff and it was kind of tellingthe future because they won the
title that year. He was like, I fought and I
continue to fight tirelessly to keep those guys and gals here in
Lubbock. He goes, they're awesome.
He goes, they go other places, they're going to win titles.
If I keep them here, we're goingto win titles.
So that's interesting that you mentioned that mentioned James.
I love that. That's awesome.

(47:23):
So you talked about coaches and mentors being your rock and
accountability, which is maybe aword that we don't talk about
enough in coaching and society overall.
I know your, your family life, your your family.
I've met them a few times. Talk to me about what your wife

(47:46):
and your kids do for you as it relates to coaching.
Oh, that's what a great question.
And so my wife has been in higher education for over 20
years. And so she and she's been a
director of admission. And so she, she's knows so much

(48:08):
more than I do. And she is just so much more
tuned in and, and a veteran at all the things that I am trying
to find a way to work through and get better AT.
And so when it comes professionally, my wife, like
she's my, she's my go to. She's my proofreader, you know,
Oh my gosh. Like, yeah.

(48:30):
Like, and the, the craziest thing, like, like, so we might,
we might get on a tangent here, but I suppose we're coaches and
that's what our life is just a bunch of tangents thrown
together. So she, she, she works, you
know, higher education hours. And now some people might think
professors, I don't know, but I'm talking like, I'm talking

(48:50):
like your 50 plus hour work week.
OK, she does all of that. She handles literally everything
at home. She also comes to every single
one of our home track meets and manages our coaches,
hospitality, sells apparel, OK. She travels to every single
track meet that she can that's within kind of a 2 hour radius.

(49:10):
And we're AD 3 program and regional.
So majority of those are meets are that way.
And so weekends are spent still with track.
And then when it's national meets or long distance meets,
she even tries to find ways to do that as well.
And that's not even like, and it's not even like me.
I don't even say like, honey, I would love to have you at this
meet, but I realize it's important for me to say, but

(49:31):
like she's just there because. And she doesn't ever ask if I
want her to be there. She's never asked.
She just knows that. Like she knows that being there
allows me to be better at what Ido.
And I've never had to say that to her.
I've never had to ask that to her, although I have thanked her
so many times because I realize in the moment, like when things

(49:51):
get tough, like I talked about that conference meet a couple
years ago and you know, with stuff that's going on right now
with, you know, having to have these conversations with our
seniors whose careers may be done.
Like she's always the one who isthere and I come home to or stay
home with because I don't want to go in on that given day
because of what's going on. And she's, she is the one who

(50:16):
helps me through everything thatI have to do and somehow finds a
way to still get. Everything.
Else done that's on her list. And so when you say Rockstar,
you are right like this, like itis, you know, it's not
superhuman because she does it, which means we can all do it,
but she, she does it and she gets it done.

(50:37):
And, and on top of that, she's also raising 3 great kids, you
know, three incredible kids. And so being able to be in a job
and do what we do for the hours that we do it and spending so
much more time with other people's kids than our own.
And usually dealing with and working through, you know,

(50:59):
teaching moments with other people's kids more than our own.
It is, it is, it is such a wonderful, wonderful situation
to be able to know that like in my life, I have the best person
on earth to be able to take careof me essentially and take care

(51:20):
of anything and everything that matters most to me.
And that she does it with me. And so, and then to be
completely honest, like our kidsare great too.
Like my, my stepdaughter Taylor,she goes to UD, She's one of our
team managers. So she chose to come, you know,
be involved. She never detract.
She's a softball player and but she helps out with recruiting
events and home track meets and things like that.

(51:42):
And then Evan, my stepson, who is a freshman at UD, you know,
he's thought about possibly coming back to the sport.
He was a good athlete. He was state qualifying athlete
in high school and he stepped away from track this year.
But you know, he's those two arejust such great Big Brother Big
Sisters to dash our five year old.

(52:02):
And so it just when you have a family that cares about the
things that matter and people athome that, you know, when you
know, mom and dad are gone and the big kids got to watch the
little kids. Or, you know, when, you know, we
have to work through things likethe challenging things that
we're going to be dealing with here with kind of the state of
our nation. Like it just they, they give me

(52:24):
they give me a reason to come home and they give me a reason
to be better at what I do when Ileave home.
And so I. Want to make sure we don't gloss
pass something that you just said.
I want to make sure everybody hears this and and knows about
this. You got a 5 year old say his
name again. Yeah, I suppose like the the

(52:46):
real, the the real. Celebrity.
Just like have a brief mention so dash.
Now you're you're not a chef, sothis isn't a dash of pepper.
You're not a grammar major. No, A-A colon, a semi colon.
This is dash like Sprint a dash,right?
Yeah. How did first?
Of all, how did she? Let you name your child Dash.

(53:10):
Oh man, and that's funny, I'm glad you brought that up 'cause
I thought, I thought, I don't, Ididn't know if I ever had won
anything. And now I'm reminded that
there's at least one if you don't have one.
So oh man, no, we so we had, we didn't.
Know oh boy or a. Girl and we we had two male
names, so it was going to be Dash or Max.
And so she actually allowed Dashto like, make it to the final

(53:32):
two was in the championship. Because of like like a bench
press Max or was it just Max? Like like Max No.
No, no, I just, I, I don't know.I like, you know, we both like
kind of single syllable, like just simple names.
And so Dash, yes, so Dash workedand Max worked.

(53:54):
But Max is kind of like this like alpha gladiator name, you
know what I mean? I think about Maximus and
whatever else and and then Dash and so so he's more.
We found it as people names. And.
OK, we had none. That was, that was the
challenging things like we had no girl's name.
So we were really, really lucky that when he was born that it
was a he because we, he might still not have a name.

(54:18):
We might still be calling the baby three or something like
that or like, you know, like by initials or whatever.
But anyway, so, so we, they, thenurse, the nurse takes me into
the other room to weigh him and she says, So what do I write
down as his name? And I said, well, I, I, I can't
make that decision right now. Like I, like she's in the other
room. What are you thinking?

(54:38):
Attribly is she? Trying to get me in trouble so
but he was he was born he was born early and he was a kind of
not emergency but scheduled C-section because he wasn't
growing anymore in the womb and so he.
Was almost. 12 ounces. And so Max just didn't fit.
You know, Max is like a big German shepherd attack dog kind

(55:01):
of thing, you know what I mean? So, yeah, so when I, you know,
Melissa, I came back in the roomand maybe she was because she
was still, you know, I don't know, under medication, I don't
know. But she I said so I said, so
honey, what do you want to do? And she goes, it's Dash.
And so. Yeah.
So that's so Dash is born. But the reason, the reason Dash
made the final cut is because track is the, the thing that

(55:23):
brought us together. I met Melissa at the University
of Dubuque. Like, and it's because of track
that led me there. It's because of track that kept
me there. It's because of track that I met
her, and it's because of track that essentially we're together.
And so he like his life as a track baby came to be because of
track and field. And so we couldn't really name

(55:44):
him anything other than a track name.
And so. Yeah, so.
That's awesome. I I didn't realize, you know,
the culmination of all this is that UD really is a family
affair. It is, it absolutely is.
And he did file well 4 1/2. Years ago.
Oh, that's right, he did. His first year of pre-K.
So so Taylor, Evan are both at school at UD, Dash did 4 1/2

(56:09):
years at UD and Melissa and I both work at UD and we both got
both Melissa got her undergrad and her master's from UD2.
So yeah, it's yeah, I don't. Know well and I.
We're a We're a spark. Videos of Dash.
I'll tell you what, for a kid who was born under £5, you
wouldn't know it. That kid is, he lives up to his
name. Dash he is.

(56:29):
It seems like he's always dashing somewhere.
Yes, he is. I thought you brought up a dash
of a dash of this or a dash of that 'cause I think, you know,
we love to cook too. But yeah, there is, there is
nothing in small quantities for everything is in abundance with
him, whether it's energy, activities, excitement.

(56:50):
So yeah, he, he, he, he loves life.
And I just, I as a father, I need to make sure I do
everything I can with him. Not getting his enough time to
spend at home with him to make sure that I continue to breathe
that into him. And you know, the truth is he
just, he breathes a lot of life into me.
And so I'm, I'm glad he he keepsme young and I'm glad he's got

(57:13):
kind of the a positive outlook because he's going to need that
and that's going to serve him well as he grows up.
So yeah. That's a good segue.
So it is, you know, in the worldof podcast, you record one day,
but you don't know someone couldbe listening to this from a
year, a year from now, 10 years from now.
So in today's world, it is March18th, 2020.

(57:37):
And for anybody who's listening to this, within days of this
recording knows that life changed last Thursday.
Everybody, most people were at their NCAA national
championships. You were down in North Carolina.
I was over in in Albuquerque. And not only did the indoor

(58:01):
championships get canceled, but essentially the rest of the
season got canceled. So you are like most other
coaches. I think 99% of the coaches are
in the same boat. You have no season.
The outdoor season is canceled officially and sometimes it's
unofficially right now but it's a matter of hours.

(58:23):
It seems to for everything will be officially canceled.
There officially is no incident blade championships.
Your kids are probably kids. Being that the student part of
your kids are probably doing remote classes for the rest of
the semester, which means, and Iknow incident of lay has a
moratorium on recruiting in regards to on campus visits or

(58:45):
you going to visit other kids. You can still call and text
things like that. So the world is different in
just one week. What are you doing right now as
a coach that's different? Like how?
How are you adjusting to this new this new reality?

(59:06):
That's God, what a good question.
So we, we as a staff are we've already, I mean, I, I invested
in Zoom and we're doing our kindof staff meetings remotely.
We're doing everything like the most important thing that we're
going. To do is so you're at home right
now all the. Coaches are at.

(59:27):
Home, OK, is that mandated or isthat because it's spring break
or you're a track coach so. No, we, So I basically, I, our
university said yesterday that, you know, kind of gave us the
note that students are going to be asked to move off campus or
move out of campus, go back home.
We're going to do distance learning for the rest of the
semester. And basically like for any, any
employees who have the ability to work remotely can work

(59:51):
remotely essentially with approval.
And so maybe major of our job isremote anyway, whether we're at
the track or on the recruiting, you know, on the recruiting
trail or whatever else. But you know our coaches, our
staff, you know we, we have. We have already been meeting
remotely via Zoom and we have already put together a
recruiting plan for how we're going to address the next two

(01:00:15):
weeks because we don't have practices every day like we
typically would. And the biggest thing that, you
know, the first kind of point ofbusiness was how like we need to
reach out and communicate with our current team first, our
seniors. And then we need to reach out to
all of our committed athletes who are also seniors.
And I think, you know, a lot of discussion is about realizing

(01:00:38):
that, you know, these seniors have had their senior year
essentially stripped away from them and at the college level,
but every single high school senior is having the exact same
thing happened. And so basically that the
biggest thing that we talked about is like we need to make
sure that we are there for our athletes, there for each other,

(01:01:00):
there for our recruits and kind of work through this initial
kind of time of just kind of dealing with this kind of
horrible news. Like this really heartbreaking,
heart wrenching situation where everything you've worked for and
all the goals that you've set and what you hope to achieve,

(01:01:23):
you know, for miss, some will not be achieved period.
Like that's the hard thing to deal with.
But for many, like realizing that now all of a sudden you
have to wait for something far beyond, you know, tomorrow or
far beyond this spring season. And so that's the biggest thing
that we talked about is like we're going to make sure we are
there for them, we educate them and we help them through what's

(01:01:46):
going on right now. But we have to realize that like
our, our programs, like our, ourcreed, our mission and like our
intentions don't change. You know, like our, our goal is
still to earn a championship. Our goal is still to impact our
community. Our goal is still to be better
leaders. And so we're going to take the
time and do it how we can. And so trying to find ways to

(01:02:10):
deliver that stuff remotely and,you know, basically just finding
ways to make sure that we can get back to that.
The most important thing we can do is get back to some level of
common, you know, normalcy. And so that's what's going to
help people cope with this. That's going to help us get
through this. And so we're trying to provide
that for each other and we're trying to provide that for our

(01:02:31):
team and, you know, going to work to try and provide that for
our recruits as well. And so that's really what we've
done initially. And so a lot of things we can't
really think about our address because we don't have enough
information, you know, if we don't know if we're going to be
allowed to have campus visits oncampus yet fully, you know what

(01:02:52):
I mean? And the situation, the situation
is only going to get worse. So it's like things are going to
change too. Like this is such a like ever
changing situation and will be for months.
And so we're going to take things in stride.
We're going to be as proactive as we can and we're going to
keep the people that are most important at the heart of what
we do. And that's our team and that's
those who are going to be a partof our team in the future.

(01:03:14):
And that's us as coaches as we help kind of take care of each
other. Because realistically, like
really coaches, the truth is to really think only thing that
they want to do is go to practice.
You know, it's so like the one thing like, you know, recruiting
is great because it's the most important thing we do to build
the future of our team. You know, like the
administrative tasks are great because we can do things like
spend money at Gil or, you know,book our buses to meets or

(01:03:36):
whatever else, but all that stuff's gone.
Like all like, like all we can do now or like the aspects of
what we love to do is going to practice.
Like that's gone. And so there's a lot of coaches,
you know, who are out there and,you know, talking about how our
athletes can cope with this and trying to find ways to build
some healthy situations and evenissues with mental health and

(01:03:56):
what we can do to move forward. But this is going to be a big
challenge on coaches too, because that one most enjoyable
aspect of their day, practice isgone.
And it's not just track coaches.It's every spring sport coach.
It's every fall sport coach because all their spring seasons
are gone. You know, it's like, and so we
we have to find a way to work together to keep ourselves

(01:04:20):
motivated and keep ourselves pushing towards delivering like
delivering an experience withoutbeing able to connect in person.
And it's going to be very, very hard.
But you know, we're, I'm just, I'm grateful to have a good, a
good, really good coaching staffand to have great athletes who

(01:04:41):
will be forward thinking and we'll kind of dive into this,
dig in where they need to and find ways to overcome.
So that's, I hope that answered your question, but it's just,
it's, it's I have no idea what to expect.
So I'm just trying to kind of take it 1 by 1 and be as
proactive as as we can with it. And.

(01:05:02):
Yeah, I think you're doing a good job.
There is no playbook here. So when you say, you know, hope
I answered that, answered your question, I don't know that
there is an answer. Yeah, these are questions that
again, there is no playbooks. I don't know that there is an
answer. But one of the hardest things to
do is to look beyond what is right in front of you, right.
So one of the things that you talked about is you mentioned

(01:05:25):
that, you know, it's not just track coaches, it's our other
spring sport coaches and even our fall coaches who while
football season hasn't been cancelled, now there's no
guarantees. Again, there is no no playbook
here. We don't know what's going to be
written. You also mentioned in one of the
first things that hit me when the news came down last
Thursday, my immediate thought was the college seniors that oh,

(01:05:48):
man, they're you know, first of all, they are right here at the
facility. They don't get a chance to try
to accomplish the goals that they set.
And now outdoor season. And so are they just done?
You mentioned high school seniors as well.
So not only are they faced with the prospect that they're not
going to be allowed to compete at their conference and
regionals and sectionals and maybe state to accomplish their

(01:06:10):
goals, but you know, a lot of times that is also their way of
earning scholarship or earning aposition on a team.
So you you lose that aspect too.You go another layer.
I know that you guys have been doing community work with the
Special Olympics. Talk to me about that and how

(01:06:31):
that now that opportunity is notavailable for for those well
deserving boys and girls. Oh, my Mike.
Yeah. Now you just you open me to
again, like you said, another layer.
Oh, it's so we, yeah, we, we wanted to get our team more
invested and involved in our community.

(01:06:52):
And so we did a, a Special Olympics unified meet this
spring. And I certainly want to talk
about how great and incredible that was and not focus on the
negative here, but part of that.And then they came back and did
practices at our facility trials, you know, like they,
they came and did time trials sothat they could build towards
their actual Special Olympics championships and, and their
events in both community and state and even regional and

(01:07:16):
national events that they were going to do as well.
And so it's like, you know, yeah, it's there's, there's a
lot of folks that are being affected by this in a lot of
ways. And although like, again, I can,
you know, it's, it is heartbreaking.
It is heart wrenching. But the one thing that we have
to start accepting and realizingis like, that's the way it is.

(01:07:38):
And we've got to find a way to move forward.
And I don't mean to be like unmotivating with that or
negative with that, but you know, to kind of look back and,
you know, think about something that I know all of our athletes
like and they express such immense like excitement and
gratitude towards this opportunity.
So we we had we did a Special Olympics unified meet.

(01:07:59):
And if speaking any other track coaches out there, anybody
listen to this in the future, like what an absolute great way
to connect our sport to make a difference in people's lives.
So Special Olympics Unified meetmeans that a Special Olympian
and an able bodied track athlete.
Compete together. Oh, that's what unified.

(01:08:19):
I was going to ask what unified means.
OK. So yeah.
And so yeah, so we did, we did broad jump, long jump, softball
throw, turbo, jav. We did 2 by 200 meter relays
because we were indoors. So we did full lap each and we
I'm trying to think what else I'm missing shot.

(01:08:41):
Did we do? No, we did.
We might have done shot put. And just like it was such an
incredible day. Like just to see like just to
see how much like sport and competition like excites
somebody's life and more importantly, why we do it at the

(01:09:01):
end of the day, like the actual human connection we build with
it. Like just seeing like the looks
on my own athletes faces with ittoo, you know.
And so so yeah, it's kind of, I guess it's kind of your segue.
We're kind of a different note. But like we this is something
that we got to do this year thatI'm so glad that we got to do
before, you know, everything ended but and something that we

(01:09:23):
continue to do moving forward inthe future.
But it's something that just it really helps us realize like
those are the things we do. Like, why come in on a Sunday
when you know, and sometimes youknow, you know, college kids are
why am I up? Why am I awake?
Why am I here? Why am I not sleeping?
Why am I not playing video games?
Why am I not, or even like, you know, the good students?
Why am I not working on homeworkand studying right now?

(01:09:44):
And then after we after we did this event, you know, they're,
they're like, This is why, you know, like, so like it's tough
when sport is that outlet to connect people and build
relationships and give people like the motivation to not just
make great decisions in sport, but to make great decisions
beyond sport. And so it's really, really

(01:10:04):
important that we find as many ways as we can right now to
connect and do the things that we can to keep that momentum
going. And so, yeah, so I, yeah, I know
this is kind of somebody's listening to this kind of like
an odd, odd shift in kind of theconversation.
But like, it's, you know, we didthat and that impacting our
community mattered, You know, itmatters to us and kind of the

(01:10:28):
community, community is all kindof locked in their houses now.
And so we've, we've still got tofind a way to do that.
And I, I sent an e-mail out to my team kind of, you know, how
like every CEO is sending this COVID-19 update, you know, and
so all those people are wondering how did I get on
coach's e-mail list today? But it was that one time.
That's right. One store and gave me your

(01:10:50):
e-mail address you know so but like I sent them a note and I I
I tied our creed and our missionto what's going on and I told
them like what we set out to do has not changed.
You know, the things that we've earned are still earned.
And now our team, team first is the first part of our creed.

(01:11:11):
And that's kind of our first rule.
And I told them that, like our team has now expanded from just
each other to our family, our friends in America.
And we need to put our team first and we need to make sure
that we do the right thing to put our team in the best
position to be successful. And so it doesn't matter like
these, like it's important we understand, like the lessons

(01:11:31):
that we learn in sport that apply to life don't change
because our season got canceled.You know, it doesn't change
because we can't have, you know,March Madness bracket, you know,
stuff right now. I think that none of that
changes, you know, do we miss a few games?
Yes. But can we allow ourselves to
miss the message and miss what'simportant?

(01:11:53):
No. And so just trying to connect
that for them because it's it's so easy to get disconnected
because of technology, which wasour issue before and now get
disconnected because of a globalpandemic.
And so we need to find a way to stay.
First of all, I think it was really interesting what you just
said about there. You said we can miss the things
like March Madness and practice and competitions, but we can't

(01:12:16):
allow ourselves to miss what's important that's in front of us,
the team, the mission, the, the,the goals, etcetera.
That's really, really important.You know, out of all the coaches
that I've spoken with and Lord knows through a career as a
track coach and now in my careerat Guild Athletics, you know,
I've spoken to literally thousands of coaches, the real

(01:12:39):
good ones. And you're in this this camp
here, Gunny, that that talk about you can only control what
you can control. And so while the things in the
past are the indoor champs beingcanceled, and honestly, even
though the outdoor champs are May and June, those are
canceled. So those are in the past.

(01:12:59):
We can't control those things. So what do you have the ability
to control your out, your team and your coaching staff and your
programs outlook for 21? You can start to control that as
you prepare. Well, you have the option as a
head coach, right? You can either prepare for 21
and make it better than what youthought 20 was going to be, or

(01:13:22):
you can huddle in your office orhome and lick your wounds and
throw a pity party. And I'm not sure that that helps
anybody or anything at all. So I like that you're doing
conference calls with your coaching staff and as we
navigate through this, this new normal until we can get back to

(01:13:44):
the, to the, the, the real normal that we used to have.
Yeah, Yeah, yeah. Earlier we talked about.
Before we started recording, you're talking about, you know,
using this time as a, a way to kind of take a step back and
reflect on what's important to you.
And that kind of goes with what we were just talking there.

(01:14:05):
Maybe we'll make this our last segment.
You, you, you're a rock star, man.
You know, we're 70 minutes in and still going.
You know, you're the kind of guythat I can learn so much from
that we could keep going this for seven hours.
But I, I know you do have some things you got to do today.
But So what are the things that you're doing yourself and maybe
counseling your team and coaching staff on taking a step

(01:14:27):
back and working on something else?
You obviously can't learn how tolong jump better right now or
you can't go practice how to long jump better.
So what are some things that you're doing to maybe reassess
what you and your life and your team and that includes your
family are are working towards right now?
Well, I haven't, I haven't gotten into full coach mode to

(01:14:51):
kind of deliver those harsh messages or hard messages to the
team. We've kind of focused on where
we are now. And I've also tried to educate
them a little bit on coronavirusbecause I don't think that many
people are educated. So I, I'm, I'm just, I'm trying
to have my young, especially when they're on kind of extended
spring break. And with kind of the lack of, I

(01:15:14):
think a realistic lack of responsibility for younger
people, knowing that they're notaffected by this.
I've, I've really just tried to like educate them on where we're
at and then help them understandthat this is going to get a lot
worse and that it's going to be a while until it gets better.
Because I, I still think people are thinking that like the Iowa

(01:15:35):
high school association with a four week, you know, suspension
of track meets is somehow going to be the time frame of what
this global pandemic does. You know what I mean?
Helping them understand it like there's a, there's a lot more to
come with this and that they need to, you know, they need to
start, you know, accepting wherewe're at and start making, start
helping make an impact how they can and trying to get back to a

(01:15:58):
normal schedule and working towards that.
So, but you know, that the evaluation piece like this, this
like this shook me so hard. And it wasn't like, you know, it
wasn't the, it wasn't the cancelling of the international
meet that was as much of a challenge.
It wasn't the fact that our outdoor season was cancelled.

(01:16:21):
It was the fact that literally because I had, you know, I had
23 seniors at home that Thursdaynight when we got the note that
weren't in the national meet, you know?
And they're finding out via Twitter that their college
career either is over or could be over unless they decide to

(01:16:42):
invest in another year of payingfor school and another year of
intense training and time and, and energy commitment to be in a
track and field athlete. And it really like, it made me
think about like, you know, we, we talk all these cliches and
coaching about, you know, it's agame of inches or, you know,
every centimeter counts or, you know, whatever.

(01:17:05):
It's like, so obviously, like anathlete misses qualifying for
the national meet, say by 100th of a second or by a centimeter.
And, you know, we want to like reflect back on that and say,
you know, hey, like, could you have eaten better or could you
have foam rolled a few more times?

(01:17:26):
Or could you have not drank or gone out partying?
Like there's all these things that we can reflect on.
But the truth is now we're not talking about a centimeter.
We're not talking about an inch.We're not talking about 100th of
a second. We're literally talking about a
career. We're talking about the
culminating final experience in every senior who doesn't get to
have their senior day. We're talking about seniors who
like never get to realize those four years.

(01:17:48):
Like say you know, you know, some freshmen are national
champions, some sophomores or national qualifiers, some folks
are conference champs. However many times you know, but
there are athletes who have invested 4 years just to find
that growth and enough growth inthat centimeter by centimeter
experience just to get to a point where they can feel that
it was all worth it. And so trying like trying to

(01:18:09):
like put myself in their shoes and like realize that all that
they have worked towards and them they have probably put all
of their eggs, every ounce of energy into this last final
basket, you know, and the baskets now gone, it's been
stolen. Like it's not there.
And so trying to like just trying to help them through that

(01:18:35):
and help them understand that. And then realistically, like the
harsh message and evaluating looking back like for me as a
coach, like what didn't I do, you know, like if, if for any
point in time, I mean never evensee him again, you know what I
mean? Like, you know, they, they could
be back to home in California orback to home wherever else.
And it's like, well, hey, coach,we're not going to have
graduation now. We're not going to have classes
in person. And I'm not going to come back

(01:18:56):
and pay another, however many $1000 to do my senior year
track, you know what I mean? Like the like, like, so the
relationship is just like the relationship in which we knew is
fractured. And so have I done enough for
them in these last, you know, years to give them an experience

(01:19:16):
that can go beyond the track? And so moving forward, I think
that's why we know I talked a little bit about this earlier
about how my kind of coaching philosophy is shifting back
towards a little bit more structure and discipline.
You know, and it's true. Like, I am not going to allow
folks to take excessive time to figure things out.

(01:19:39):
We're going to figure things outquicker.
We're going to get to where we need to quicker.
And we're going to like deepen the message and deepen the
experience to be something that matters beyond their time at
school. Because like nothing is
guaranteed. You know, some athletes we know,
like some athletes, you know, like are done after their
freshman year because they don'twant to do school.

(01:20:01):
Some athletes are done because of an injury.
And some athletes, now, we find out, are done because of a
global. Virus crisis.
And so I am not willing or interested to like feel ever
again that I didn't do enough. And so that's, that's what, you

(01:20:24):
know, I'm going to have a lot ofweeks, a lot of months, you
know, moving forward to do this.And I I frankly, I feel bad.
For my team. Next year, because it's common,
but but I am going to I am goingto like I'm going to hug them
harder, I'm going to coach them harder, I'm going to love them
harder and I'm going to expect them to do the same.

(01:20:50):
And it's because if what we do truly matters, and if we're
truly going to miss this and be heartbroken when it's gone, we
got to re evaluate and find out what we can do, what more we can
do when we're in it. That if it is gone, like we can
have everything that we did together, everything that we

(01:21:10):
learned help make an impact beyond that time, you know, and
that's I owe that to my seniors.I tell you owe that to that.
That hits me hard when you talk about hug them harder, love them
harder, coach them harder. I mean, that is a story of no
regrets. You know, when, when you're in
it, be in it. So that if and when it's taken

(01:21:32):
from you, because it's all takenfrom us at some point, whether
it's eligibility, exhausting retirement, global pandemic,
something, you know, it's alwaysgoing to be taken from you.
So are you in the moment giving it 100% so that when you are
done, you can have zero regrets that you, you put it all in
there, man, I couldn't set it any better myself.
That's awesome. That seems like a, a great place

(01:21:54):
to, to stop right there. I'm not sure there's much more
to add right there, my man. Chad, man, hey, really
appreciate your time. I know you, while you may have
more time for me right now than in the in the past, I wish you
didn't. But I know it is an uncertain
time. And I'm a huge believer in

(01:22:15):
leadership and leaders. And I think when the chips are
down, there's no more important time for the need for leaders.
And so having you as a leader ofthe UD program and of your
family and of the, the communitythere, they're lucky to have
you. And I think that as we continue
to all learn on the fly, as we go through this will come out

(01:22:37):
stronger if we just continue to,to look forward to what the
future can be. And I think yet a lot of great
words and encouragement there for others to hear.
So I think you can have a, a positive impact with this this
podcast as well, man. So again, just can't say thank
you enough for your time and andenergy today.
Mike, thank you so much. And I just, I want to, I want to

(01:22:58):
thank you specifically, but I also want to thank you because
you guys are just an organization that cares about
coaches. And you know, you have taken
obviously your time as a coach and truly applied it to being an
incredible professional and colleague and friend.
And to me specifically. And I just, I'm grateful for you

(01:23:19):
and I'm grateful for what you guys do.
And I'm praying for all of us that we can move through this
and go back to making an impact.Through that means the world.
I appreciate that so much, man. All right, Well, go do what you
do best. Go go lead your family and your
program and your kids, man. Take care of my brother.
Well, hey there. If you've admitted this far,

(01:23:40):
really appreciate you joining us.
I hope you enjoyed your time with Chad as much as I did.
Again, what a trying time we allhave as it relates to, you know,
the entire season's being rippedout from us and then uncertainty
of what the future is. I think the real take away there
from Chad is that you know what?You can't control what has

(01:24:03):
happened in the past. You can only control what's in
front of you and in the future. So you know, our word here at
Gil Athletics is leadership to the future.
What does 2021 look like? How can you make 2021 better
than what you thought 20/20 was even going to be?
So again, really hope you enjoyed our time with Chad as

(01:24:23):
much as I did. Make sure to subscribe to the
Gila FedEx Connection Podcast for future episodes.
That way you are automatically notified when we publish a new
one. And if you or someone you know
would like to be a guest on the show, contact me at HUR DLE at
gilathletics.com. That's right.
It's hurdle at gilathletics.com.In the meantime, really hope you

(01:24:46):
feel led to share this podcast on your social media network of
choice. We're not really doing any
advertising this. We want this to kind of be a
viral word of mouth thing. So would mean the world to me
and to Gil Athletics personally.If you would share this on
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Instagram, you name it, we'd really appreciate that and join

(01:25:09):
us next time when we once again connect you with another great
track and field coach. Thanks for listening.