November 13, 2025 • 53 mins
An early holiday present, no wrapping required.
Struggling to find a gift for the women’s soccer fan in your life? Send ’em this podcast because today’s episode of The GIST of It features Canadian soccer royalty. Diana Matheson is a CanWNT team legend, a two-time Olympic medalist, and founder and Chief Growth Officer of the Northern Super League (NSL). Tune in to listen to Matheson and co-host Ellen Hyslop yap about everything from the business of starting Canada’s first domestic pro women’s soccer league to a very special napkin. You won’t want to miss it.
A big thank you to BMO for sponsoring today’s pod! BMO has been committed to growing the beautiful game in North America for two decades. Today, BMO supports the NWSL’s Angel City FC and is the official bank of the Northern Super League. Learn more by visiting our Soccer Help Desk today.
Show notes:
Join The GIST Plus
More on The GIST:
☎️ Leave us a voicemail! Call us at 1-437-564-5579 or hold down on this link
🎧 Subscribe: thegistsports.com/subscribepod
✉️ Email: pod@thegistsports.com
📷 Instagram: @thegistca @thegistusa
🐦 X: @thegistpod
Struggling to find a gift for the women’s soccer fan in your life? Send ’em this podcast because today’s episode of The GIST of It features Canadian soccer royalty. Diana Matheson is a CanWNT team legend, a two-time Olympic medalist, and founder and Chief Growth Officer of the Northern Super League (NSL). Tune in to listen to Matheson and co-host Ellen Hyslop yap about everything from the business of starting Canada’s first domestic pro women’s soccer league to a very special napkin. You won’t want to miss it.
A big thank you to BMO for sponsoring today’s pod! BMO has been committed to growing the beautiful game in North America for two decades. Today, BMO supports the NWSL’s Angel City FC and is the official bank of the Northern Super League. Learn more by visiting our Soccer Help Desk today.
Show notes:
Join The GIST Plus
More on The GIST:
☎️ Leave us a voicemail! Call us at 1-437-564-5579 or hold down on this link
🎧 Subscribe: thegistsports.com/subscribepod
✉️ Email: pod@thegistsports.com
📷 Instagram: @thegistca @thegistusa
🐦 X: @thegistpod
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
What's up our favorite people? Welcome or welcome back to
another episode of the Gist of It. Today is Thursday,
November thirteenth. We're your co hosts.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm Ellen Hyslop and I am Steph Rotts, and we.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Have a jam packed episode today. I have a lot
to talk well, we have a lot to talk about.
In the calling an audible section, I gave stuff a
little bit of a preview just to let her know
what we're going to talk about. We have an amazing interview,
and then we also have a spicy hot take to
end the pod.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
I'm so excited and I am so happy that you
were proud of me doing a hot take, because the
thing about Ellen is she's always trying to empower me
to share my hot takes, either via TikTok or on
the podcast because I need to be liked. It's something
I need to get over. And I did it while
she was gone, without even her moral support. So we're
(00:59):
going to circle back to a hot take that I
had last week.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
I'm always so proud of you. I feel like i'm
your number one fangirl and I Steph, You're so smart,
and you're so eloquent and I love hearing your opinions,
and I feel like, because I love hearing your opinions
so much, I feel like other people would love to
hear them too.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Mom picked me up. I'm crying.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
But anyway, we have a lot to get to today.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Ill to say, it's a jam packed episode, but it
is extra cool because I got to chat actually with
one of my dad's heroes and as a result, one
of my heroes too. We sat down with and we
wrote this as Canadian soccer Royalty, but I would like
to slash out the Canadian and just say soccer royalty.
We got to said period, end of story. We got
(01:46):
to sit down with Diana Mathieson. You are not familiar
with her. She is a Canadian woman's national soccer team legend.
She is a two time Olympic medalist. She's the founder
and chief growth officer of the Northern Super League or
the NSL, which is the new domestic league in Canada.
And so that sounds all very Canadian, but for our
(02:09):
Americans listening, you really do need to care about her. Obviously,
we all care about all Olympians, regardless of what country
they played for or represented.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
What have you?
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Diana Matheson played for Princeton from two thousand and four
to two thousand and seven and was the Ivy League
Player of the Year in two thousand and seven and
was Princeton Women's Athlete of the Year in two thousand
and eight. This is all from Wikipedia, so like we
got a fact check some of this. She also played
in the NWSL since its inception, so from twenty thirteen
(02:43):
to twenty twenty one, Diana Matheson played in the NWSL.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
She's kind of in the.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Same age group era as an Abby Womback or Christine Sinclair.
That's where I would kind of loop her into. She
played for the Washington Spirit Seattle Rain Utah Royals in
Kansas City, so she has been there and done that
and been that person.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
And I'd like to say she's done all of this stuff. Wow.
And I've had the pleasure.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Of meeting her in person before, so I knew that
she was a shorty girl. But then when we were
again checking on Wikipedia, she is five feet blank per Wikipedia.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
And to.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Have the career that she has.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Had at five feet in women's is incredible. I cannot
imagine how hard that would have been for her, but
also how much That speaks to what an incredible soccer
player she was and what she would have leaned into
in order to hone her craft and her skills at
this entirely next level.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yes, because of course soccer players are shorter than basketball
players are volleyball players. But you still have to run, Yes,
you still have a disadvantage. It is incredible she'd been
able to achieve regardless of her height included. Do you
know what I always find in hockey, But there's some
short centers that are always really good, like what's in
(04:05):
what's about that?
Speaker 1 (04:06):
But you always wonder, Okay, they're really good, but would
they make it to the ke tow wu HL or
NHL Maybe maybe rarely, not that I say those are
those are really special people like a Martine Saint Luis
or Brad Marsham or even a cool caw Field or
Connor Bodard. Those are short dudes and they're really good,
(04:30):
but they're few and far between, you know what I mean.
And I feel like that's the same in soccer. Like there,
I'd say, if you're gonna be playing at that NWSL level,
you're looking at a five to five and that would
be kind of the shortest of where you're kind of playing.
I don't know, maybe a five four, maybe a cheeky
five four five four.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Famously the average height of a Canadian woman.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
There you go, that's dropped a little bit.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
I think States is five five in Canada's five for But.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
I like that comparison because again, when I saw Trinity
Rodman beside Paigebeckers, I did audibly gasp because I was like,
what do you mean Paige Beckers is taller than Trinity Rodman.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
But it's all relative.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
So anyway, we are talking to Diana Matheson today.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
The nsl's first ever championship.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Is going down this weekend between AFC Toronto and Vancouver Rise.
And it was so great talking to her stuff because
she has this soccer life, but then she also has
this business life, and she's also wicked smart. She went
to Princeton, has her executive MBA, has done all of
these incredible programs overseas with FIFA, and so learning from
(05:43):
her and talking to her about the business side of
things was also such a treat.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Oh my gosh, I'm so happy for you. Yeah, wow,
what a treat, and what a treat for everyone to
listen in.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I'm so excited.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Yes, trick or treat. That was so late of me.
I'm sorry so for you're a mom now, oh my god. No,
but I'm a cool mom.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I'm a cool but you keep you girls, keep me
yet you.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Girls can be me dancing anyway. I do have an
audible to call.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
And like we've been talking about lately, Seph, how aremn okay?
Speaker 4 (06:23):
A we? Why are men so dramatic?
Speaker 1 (06:27):
And this is of that same theme. So I want
to call an audible at the top of this podcast
to talk about the Dallas Mavericks and the fact that
they have fired their general manager Nico Harrison finally and
that this is a long time coming. And so on
Tuesday's podcast, in case you missed it, we talked about
(06:48):
a betting scandal that was rocking Major League Baseball. Nico
Harrison is a GM for the MAVs in the NBA.
He recently was fired. The Mavericks are having a pretty
bad start to the season. I would say, but if
you you might recall this name because this guy.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Was the general.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Manager who orchestrated that horrible trade to send Luka Doncic
from the Dallas Mavericks to the LA Lakers. Sending Anthony
Davis in a collection of other draft picks and players
back to the Dallas Mavericks. And ever since then, fans
have been calling for this man to be fired, like
(07:28):
please take him out of Dallas, and it is. It
has finally, finally happened, and the response around the internet
stef is very interesting to me.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
The Athletics headline about this is Nico Harrison's firing leaves
one big question for Mavericks.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
What took so long?
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Literally, what took so long?
Speaker 1 (07:52):
So this this trade, if you all will remember, was
in the wee hours of February of this year, which
is wild that it was only nine months ago, and Harrison,
in one of the pressers or something after that, basically
said like time will tell if I'm right, if it
was worth trading for ad. They also did get Cooper
(08:15):
Flag somehow getting the number one pick in the draft
through the draft lottery, which was very mysterious, and so
he said, time will tell if I'm right. And so
nine months later, stuff, time has run out on Nico
Harrison and it's still pretty early in the season, but
the MAVs aren't showing a lot of promise. They sit
at the bottom of the Western Conference. They're only ahead
(08:39):
of the New Orleans Pelicans right now, which is saying
something they have as at the time of recording three
and eight record. Meanwhile, the Lakers have an eight and
three record, and so I think people are just like, Okay,
can we get him out of here? And there's a
lot of Steph. I don't know if you've seen this,
but there's some like conspiracy theories around Nico Harrison too.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
What yeah, his firing or him at large.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
I would say like him at large. There's a lot
of lore with him, but I think one of the
conspiracy theories is that he hasn't been a manager for
Dallas for that long. And one of the conspiracy theories
was essentially like, Okay, the NBA is crafting this wild
trade so that they could have a big name come
(09:26):
into a big market like the LA Lakers in preparation
that Lebron James is going to retire at some point
if he if he stops tricking us, Lebron James is
going to get fired, like going to sorry, retire at
some point. He will never get fired, retire at some point,
and that this guy was like almost escape coat in
(09:48):
all of this and like was potentially brought in to
do some quote unquote like dirty work and all of this.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
So it's just gonna it's just it's just a.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Like there's so and then there's a lot of stuff
on like TikTok about this guy that I'd encourage you
guys to like take all with a grade assaults when
you go and see these things. But it's all so
fascinating and I am excited to see this guy gone,
Like I just don't even know how that trade made
it through the organization period in the first place. And
so now a lot of people are questioning stuff like
(10:21):
what's next.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
For the MAVs front office.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Who is going There's like some people who have been
promoted on an interim basis. But like Dallas, a lot
of people call it like a mid market, but I'd
say it's a pretty big sports market when you look
at the Dallas Cowboys, when you think about Texas as
a state, the population in Dallas is big. There's a
huge corporate presence there, and so this is a big
(10:45):
market that the NBA wants to get right. And it
just feels like right now Dallas is floundering and they
need to figure it out and quickly.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
I am happy for those fans though that started the
fire and eco chance. At least they got what they wanted.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Revenge.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Raby is at the was sponsored by BIMO, the bank
that has supported the growth of the game in North
America for twenty years now. They're the official bank of
Canada's very own Northern Super League aka the NFL. As
we cover the NFL final, we're tipping our hats to
BMO for making Canada's first professional women's soccer league possible,
as they're also the NFL's broadcast partner. Whether you're cheering
(11:21):
for AFC Toronto or Vancouver Rise FC, BIMO is here
to support your soccer fandom. Learn more about how PIMO
is growing the beautiful game by visiting our soccer help
desk at the link in our show notes. Today again,
to learn more about how pemo's growing that beautiful game
of soccer, visit our show notes.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Okay, as mentioned, today's one Big story is an early
holiday present. I want to say for any women's sports fan,
for any soccer fan, for any women's soccer fan. Diana Matheson,
as we listed out her resume at the top, is
a true icon for the sport.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
She had a whopping. We didn't mention this two hundred eight.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Appearances for the Canadian women's national teams throughout her very
storied career, and I think she one thing too stuff
And we get into this in the interview a little bit.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
But one thing that I respect.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
So much from that generation is that they were playing
soccer for the love of playing soccer. They were going
out there to represent their national team. They didn't know
if they could make money one day, you know what
I mean. And then when they did know that they
could make money, the type of money that they could
make was like thirty thousand dollars a year. And so
I feel like we owe so much to them, but
(12:40):
maybe we don't talk about it as much as we should.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
We owe so much to that generation, especially women's soccer.
They went through so such a tumultuous piece of soccer
history with the opening and closing of the League's Yeah, Kate,
just for my own knowledge, when someone appears for their
national they call.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
It a cap, right they do.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
So she's had two hundred and eight caps.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
That's it, Ah, Like, are really using the term?
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Look at you, she's a soccer girlie.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Also, the other day, you did say a score when
we weren't talking about soccer. That was one nothing and
you said one nil, and I was like, oh my god,
I've infiltrated her.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Oh time with that. I'm like ones when am I
supposed to say no, no, it was only soccer.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
It was so good.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
But what I was saying was is that I feel
circling back. I feel like she's had such an impact stuff.
I think I'm probably so many young women actually sticking
with soccer and hopefully going on to play in the
NWSL or NSL. And now she's literally created this entirely
new economy of soccer in Canada. And it's not just
(13:46):
Canadians who are benefiting from it. It's from people all
around the world too, And so I don't know, it's
just so cool.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Yet she's continuing to impact the global game in her
retirement as the founder and chief Growth Officer of the NFL,
and I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
So without further ado, let's listen in on Ellen and
Diana's conversation.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Diana, thank you so much for joining the gist of it.
I am so happy to have you here.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
I do have to say before we get into this, Diana,
I am a big soccer fan, soccer player, big Canadian
women's national team fan, and you are my dad's all
time favorite soccer player.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
He does not stop talking about you.
Speaker 5 (14:31):
What's your dad's name?
Speaker 4 (14:32):
His name is John.
Speaker 5 (14:33):
John, great to virtually meet you. Thanks for being a
ped My dad's name is John.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
To Way, there you go, there's that tie.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Well, thank you so much for giving him a shout
out that is completely going to make his day. And
a big thank you also to our friends at BIMO
for hooking us up with this interview for with an
icon like yourself.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
As you know, Diana.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Bibo is the official bank and broadcast partner of the NFL.
No surprise given their twenty year commitment to growing the
beautiful game of soccer in North America. Obviously, sponsorship and
endorsements and support from organizations are so important. What did
BEMO coming into the NSL ecosystem mean for you to
(15:15):
help grow the league?
Speaker 5 (15:17):
Yeah, it was it's everything. I mean, the plan to
get this league built, the catalysts. The money really came
from two sources. It came from investors who were buying
into own clubs across Canada and it came for sponsorship.
Those are the two main sources of money that get
this league launched and off the ground. So it was
(15:37):
you know, it was essential for partners like Bimo to
get involved and support the building of this league. And
it's you know, the investors and sponsors on board at
this point in time are are special because they signed
on the dotted line before we'd even kicked a ball.
Like these folks were literally signing up to an idea,
a dream, and I think we've found you know, in
(16:00):
both cases investors and sponsors, it's a fit for you know,
their values, a fit for their wider strategy. And obviously
Bemos been so involved in soccer over the years, many
many years in Canada. We were so excited to have
them on board with the Northern Super League.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
They saw the potential and they went for it, and
I love it.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Speaking of potential, Diana, you're not only a legendary soccer player,
but you're an entrepreneur building and doing everything that you've
done with Project Date moving into NSL. You initially, at
least a rumor has it, wrote the idea for the
Northern Super League.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
On a napkin at a bar is that true, and can.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
If so, can you kind of walk us through said bar,
said Napkin.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
And the story behind that.
Speaker 5 (16:45):
Well, like any I guess Smith, there's a seed of
truth to it, although perhaps not exactly true. I think
the idea of the league existed long before that meeting
in a bar. At the same time, I do have
such of the initial framework of the league. But that
meeting in the bar was an early drink with Thomas Gilbert,
(17:07):
my business partner. We found a project date together to
start this whole project, and we'd met together in our
executive and MA program, so we Yes, I can clearly
remember the bar. It was actually a bar around the
corner from me and Toronto has since closed so it
does not exist anymore. And we've done a few sketches
on a napkin, but it was it was ideas to
do with the league around the league, but it wasn't
(17:28):
exactly the original plan for league. So it is both
true but not entirely accurate.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Hey, never let the truth get in the way of
a good story, that is what I say, right, So
we're gonna keep running with that. Can you talk about Diana,
And you just mentioned your executive NBA, which were alumni
from the same school Shout out Queens, and we both
have that business background with your executive NBA, with everything
(17:54):
that you've also done overseas and all of the.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Different FIFA programs that you were part of.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Rom my business perspective, what was it like pitching the
NSL to investors? What was it like pitching the NSL
to all of these brands and that experience.
Speaker 5 (18:12):
Yeah, a good question, I would say, you know, background
is an athlete. Obviously that transition is an interesting one,
and I think you bring with you the things that
you learned and served you as an athlete, So you know,
I was really clear the huge importance of having a vision,
and it was that vision that you get people to
(18:32):
buy into and kind of steers you through all the
tough time. So at central to my pitch was why
this was important, the importance of building a pro league
in Canada and that clear vision of even though we
haven't started yet here in Canada, we have a world
class women's sport market, a world class women's soccer market,
and the pitch here is to build a top five
(18:53):
league in the world from scratch, buy women for women,
deserving of Canadian players and fans is the you know,
that was the pitch early days, and it's like anything else, right,
like it takes practice and every you know, you'd know,
every entrepreneur knows. Your pitch changes every time you do it,
and it evolves over the years, and in some ways
(19:14):
it never stops because we're still you know, we're out
there pitching still for you know, we've got the lee
kicked off this year for one point zero and then
we've got two point zero next year. So the pitch
has evolved in a lot of ways over the years.
We get new stats in women's sports every two weeks,
so we have to update the deck, a good problem about.
But in a lot of ways, the vision has stayed
(19:35):
the same throughout this this whole thing. I'll say too,
I've learned through the process I'm more like my dad
than I thought. John my dad, and that like he
he did a bit of sales in his in his
role in his career over the years, and I think
I channeled my inner John Matheson as we've been going
through the last three years.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
I love it constantly pitching, iterating, storytelling, changing your pitch
depending on who you're speaking to. As well, I feel like,
we definitely do that still all the time, as you
mentioned at the gist, but also in our early days
where we were in the same place as you have.
Either funding is coming from investors or grants or sponsors,
(20:17):
and how can we set ourselves up as an asset
for them too. How did you kind of manage some
of the naysayers early on? I'm sure that there were
some We had so many Diana early on that ended
up being investors down the road once we were able
to prove ourselves. But what has that been like, because
I think it's really hard starting a league. It's really
(20:41):
hard also when you look at the broader women's sports
and women's soccer ecosystem, where some things have worked, some
things haven't.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
People might be a little bit more risk averse when
they shouldn't be when it comes to women period. What
was that like?
Speaker 5 (20:57):
Oh my gosh, yeah, yeah, you And I'm sure I've
heard of a lot of the same thing. Yes, over
the years. I think I learned pretty early on to
you know, every pitch we were doing felt less like
you know, a sales call, and it felt more just
like a discovery call. You could tell pretty early on
(21:18):
based on the questions. They asked how they responded to
the content, if they were going to get it, or
if they won't, or if they weren't. And I think
we learned pretty early on that we couldn't or didn't
need to spend much time at all trying to convince
the people that weren't going to get it. There's a
whole bunch of people that are never going to get it.
(21:40):
Let's not waste time on them. There's people that are
going to get it. They just have to see it first,
and they're not going to be able to get it
until they see it. And that's okay, we can't get
them yet, we'll get them later. To your point, maybe
they'll end up investing later. But there's lots of people
out there that get it, and those are the ones
we're going to spend time and energy on because we
don't have infinite time and energy. So I think that
(22:00):
was the lesson early early on. You know, it was
a better time in the last five years pitching women's
sport than certainly in any period of time in the past.
There was, as you know, better than anyone. There was
finally data we could put point two. One of the
main reasons I think we're in finally the era of
the business of women's sports is because data exists, which
(22:22):
it did not before, So we didn't have any numbers
to disprove so many of those narrative, false narratives around
women's sport. Like when we started this project, the earliest
data I could find that existed on women's sports, women's
sports fan was twenty nineteen. Like that's how new this is.
So the data helped and a lot of times, you know,
no one spent a lot of time really thinking about
(22:44):
the women's sport industry or the business of women's sports.
So it was just providing them as much information as
we can providing data. And honestly, the other thought that
comes from mind too is like it hasn't stopped. It's
the awareness of women's sports now way way higher. Like
still so many misconceptions, miss and bias is still out there,
(23:07):
Still so many folks, you know, not really believing there's
a business here, and it's a bit of a fad.
And so I would say, like it's a little disheartening
how much we still get crazy stuff. But you know,
same approach, don't spend too much time on the folks
that aren't going to get it. There's there's you know,
a billion billions of people out there that do.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
That's such great advice. I wish that we learned that faster.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
At the same SCEE that you did, we were still
trying to convince people who just wouldn't get it until
to your point, they saw it. They see the success
and it is really different in the Canadian market right
to day, and especially seeing the development in Canadian professional
women's sports over the last really three years. Honestly, it
has been where we start to see it take off
(23:52):
in comparison to beforehand. A question that our gisters give
us a lot about the is why choose to develop
a Canadian league starting with six clubs as opposed to
almost doing what the WNBA has done or the NBA
or MLB what have you has done and say, okay,
(24:13):
there's an NWSL team in name and market in Canada.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
What was your approach to that?
Speaker 5 (24:20):
Yeah, great question. We got asked that a lot too.
The answer is it's both. It's kind of three things.
There's a soccer answer, there's a business answer, and there's
a patriotic answer. I think on the soccer side. The
goal here is to continue to win Olympic medals and
to win women's World Cups, and women's soccer initially grew
(24:42):
through national teams, that's where all the money was. In
the last five ten years, all the investment, all the
development has been through professional leagues and clubs where we
as players spend ninety five percent of our times. And
you've seen in countries where they really invested Spain, England,
et cetera, et cetera. These countries have gone from nowhere
on the world stage tow winning the biggest titles out there.
And the reality was, unless we started to build a
(25:05):
professional league with these professional pathways from coast to coast,
developing players in professional environments in five ten years, we
were going to start to be left behind and we
weren't going to be able to compete with all these
countries in the world that were doing that. And if
we had gone, you know, the North American Sport model,
we had a couple clubs join the NWSL, very likely
(25:26):
it would be you know, a team in Toronto, team
in Vancouver, and those are two of the three cities
where we actually have some of the only pathways for
girls in women's soccer through our National Development centers through
Canaas soccer, the NWSL would absolutely limit how many Canadians
could play on those teams because there was always a discussion.
The fear would be, you don't want the Canadian women's
(25:47):
national team, you know, being a whole roster in the NWSL,
so you got to limit Canadians. So now you know,
if we do that, we've impacted twelve pro players in Toronto,
twelve in Vancouver, a couple coaches, a couple referees, and
nowhere else across Canais. So we're not really moving the
needle on developing more players, coaches, referees. We're not impacting
(26:09):
the system at all. So that's not going to win
US World Cups. That's still going to leave us behind.
That's the soccer answer. The business answer is, I think
the North American sport model, you know, and we have
so many of them, Peter Bhlwnba, I think it works
really well where those sports and those leagues are, you know,
the one best league in the world, right I think
(26:30):
it works less well in soccer, which is a global market,
and in Canada we have one of the best sport
markets in the world. Like what we haven't many many
people watch the JAS as did. We have one of
the best women's sports markets in the world, the fandom here,
and it's just getting started. We have one of the
highest participations for girls that participate in sport and girls
(26:53):
that participate in soccer. We produce some of the world's
best players. And we've had awareness of the women's national
team and women's soccer for over a decade. So given
all these building blocks, world class building blocks, why would
we not try and build a league to compete amongst
the best leagues in the world. And not doing so
just felt like it was selling ourselves short and not
(27:14):
believing in ourselves. And in Canada, you know, we have
the potential to be one of the best in the world.
We often don't like to, you know, go out and
maybe compete as Canadians and say we're world class of things.
But I think women's sport is an exception. I think
women's sport, in women's athletes in Canada go out and
compete and win internationally every day, and we want this
(27:37):
league to be no different. And you know, I wanted
to live in Canada. I didn't want to have to
move out of the country again. I spent seventeen years abroad,
and this is about building opportunities at home for future players, fans, referees,
women in media, women in business, that whole thing, because
we're really really good at this and it's time to
go out and compete against the rest of the world.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
I love that, and I think I too. You're developing
a soccer economy in Canada and you're developing opportunities for
women to get paid, but also for these brands, these sponsors,
these investors to see ROI on their dollar two by
associating with the league like the NFL, I think to Diana,
I'm always in such awe of your generation and even
(28:21):
the current generation of soccer players hockey players, because when
I was coming out of high school figuring out did
I want to go to the NCAA route to play soccer?
Did I want to end up staying at home? The
rhetoric in my house and in my head was like,
I love this sport so much, but it's not going
to be able to sustain me. I'm not going to
(28:42):
be able to make a living off of it. When
I'm graduating in twenty fourteen, the NWSL had just got started,
and I think that Canada and at and a lot
of North America has lost so much talent to them
just simply not being able to figure it out from
a financial persons of I can't see myself being able
to make money playing the sport that I love, so
(29:04):
I'm just not going to Whereas on the men's side.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
They've never had that thought.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Of course, if they wanted to keep on competing and playing,
they could go for it and try it, and they'd
make incredible amounts of money doing it. I'm so curious
on your side data how you made that decision for
yourself when you're thinking, Okay, I'm going to go out
and be a professional soccer player, but I know that
that means I'm going to mostly be associated with the
(29:30):
national team.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
I know I'm going to have to play.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Abroad, and I know I'm probably not going to be
able to make as much money than if I actually
went a corporate route or followed John and his sales footsteps.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
Like, what's that been like?
Speaker 1 (29:47):
And how do you feel like the NSL is changing
that for these upcoming generations?
Speaker 5 (29:54):
Yeah? Good, good question. I think in part of your
question there that kind of I don't I think I
thought about it in that way at all. There was
less the process of, oh, you know, I want to
play on the national team or want to play pro,
but you know, I have to leave the country and
I'm not going to make a ton of money. It
was more like there was not an awareness that either
(30:14):
of those things was an option. You know, I'm forty
one now, so I was more of the era where
I maybe saw the women's national team on like TV,
like once or twice, I barely knew they existed. Certainly,
playing professionally wasn't an option. Women's soccer wasn't in the
Olympics yet, so it wasn't until you know, some of
my friends started to make the national team or the
(30:36):
youth national team I even knew it was a thing. Wow,
And then you know, my soccer journey, I think, was
very much just going where the game took me and
opening doors as they they came to me, and I
just I love to play and I was going to
I was going to continue to walk through doors as
long as they continue to open. So, you know, I
(30:58):
wasn't on the national team yet when I was applying
for schools, but I knew for it to be an option.
The pathway at the time was NC DOUBLEA, So I
went down to NC DOUBLEA, played there, got on the
national team, and then when I retired from university, I
knew to continue to compete on the national team. Players
were starting to play pro, so okay, okay, I'll try
and play pro now. Our coach was Norwegian at the time,
(31:21):
so went to Norway. So kind of just continued to
make decisions as they came up, and I think the
game evolved kind of at the same time I was
going through it and became more professional, and like people
weren't making big money anywhere, Like that wasn't it wasn't
it wasn't an option, so I wasn't And yeah, I
(31:41):
don't know, it was a no brainer. Like I graduated
from Princeton with an economics degree. I had a lot
of friends like go straight to New York and work
for hedge funds and make a ton of money, And
that genuinely never appealed to me because those people also
seemed miserable and after jobs years later and I figured,
you know what, I'll play soccer. We don't make a
ton of money, but between the pro salary and some
(32:02):
government karting and maybe the odd prize money and the
odd camps. I have basically no expenses because you know,
I live with the team and don't have a mortgage
or any dependent so you know I can at least
save money. And yeah, so I just I was still
the era where we were grinding it out and just
going where the game took us.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
You're built different, Diana, I have to say, and that's
why you're so successful and you've done so many incredible
things both on and off the pitch. I do want
to come to your Canadian women's national team experience and
also your mention of playing abroad. I will never forget
the Olympic medals that you won. There were some spicy
(32:41):
games that were so much fun to watch from home,
and I think you've really inspired my fandom. How did
the fan reaction of you winning a couple of Olympic
medals influence the NSL? How did your experience in Norway
and all of these other countries that you've played in
influence how you've shaped the MSL similar to them or
(33:04):
different from them. I'm really curious about how that all
came together from a league perspective for you.
Speaker 5 (33:10):
Yeah, I think you know in terms of metals. It
was absolutely the bronze medal in twenty twelve that you know,
turn the page for Canadian women's soccer. That's a foundational moment,
a watermark moment that you know, there was before soccer
in Canada and after soccer in Canada. I think with
that moment and you mentioned it like so many players
(33:31):
in my generation are out there doing things. It was
you know, it was because John Hrdman came in and
started to push us all to you know, build more
leadership skills, have a clear vision. You know that we
rallied around which was really we want to leave the
game better than we found it. And you can still
see as that generation of players, like you said, you
know is out there doing things Rihann and karm, top coaches,
(33:53):
Kaylin Kyle at MLS, Karana LeBlanc, just running things in
Portland like I can go on and on. So that
and we had the you said it like it was
the fans, the awareness after twenty twelve gave us the
platform and the opportunity that we didn't have before. You know,
it was the same group of players have been on
(34:14):
that team for ten years. No one knew who we
were and we came home from that games and we
were getting recognized, you know, in the airport and the
subway in Toronto, and a platform makes a big difference,
you know, trying to get the Northern super League going
and reaching out for meetings. It mattered that my name
had recognition and that I had Olympic medals to my name.
That opens doors and without twenty twelve, you know, we
(34:36):
wouldn't have had any of that platform to do it.
On the pro side, I think my experience playing professionally
in Norway and the NWSL, you know, from when it
started to about year seven, I think definitely informed what
we were doing in the NWSL. Those were you know,
those were early days women's pro sports. I think the
(34:57):
defining factor being you know it was it was it
was invested in more because it was the right thing
to do quote unquote as she does air quotes on
a podcast and let's go, because the belief was there
that it was a sustainable and profitable business. So you
saw as a result, things weren't invested in, things weren't
(35:20):
put on television, things weren't marketed in the same way
where you where if you believed, you know, this product
could grow and as a result, you know, it didn't
grow as fast as a kid. And then as soon
as you saw those things change, you've seen the acceleration
in all the leagues, so just so many you know,
to really simplified building the Northern Super League, it was
(35:40):
pretty basic. It was like, let's just treat it like
a business and it's going to be fine. Yes, Like
it was almost simplifying that much like so many things
at women's sports, they just weren't running like businesses and
so let's do that and we're in good shape. And
then of course do like lots of things just around
making sure we had values behind the league. There can
be a lack of transparency sometimes in sport. There's terrible,
(36:04):
terrible history of safe sport issues in both Canadian sport
and in the NWSL. So we wanted to build in
really strong safe sports safeguards from day one, and building
in the player's voice too. You know, I come from
an athlete's rights background help build the Women's National Team
Players Association, So we built in things from the beginning,
like a lot of the stuff the NWSL players we
(36:25):
were fighting for those first seven years and achieved in
like year eight or nine. We just built them into
the contracts at the Northern Super League. Like guaranteed contracts,
you can't be waived, you have to approve maternity rights.
We just puilt them in and we want to work
really closely with the player's voice as we grow that thing,
because I understand how important it is.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
What you're building is so special. I have a last
question for you before we go.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
I could chat forever at the time of recording, and
we were talking about this beforehand. The four team NSL
postseason fields is set happening right now or through our
first legs. We're gearing up to crown the champion with
the Diana Mathison Trophy, which I love, by the way,
on November fifteenth at BMO Fields in Toronto.
Speaker 4 (37:13):
What are some of the learnings you'll take away from
this first season?
Speaker 5 (37:16):
Oh my gosh, so many things. Yeah, we're in the
you know, you know how it is startup year one.
Everything this year it had to be built from scratch,
including these inaugural playoffs and the first NFL Final. So
I think like there'll be a lot of things we
learned after we're out of season and get the chance
(37:36):
to take a deep breath and debrief, But we're really
excited about November fifteenth, this inaugural NSL final. You know,
out of the three women's pro leagues, we're the only
one that has a single game final format. The other
folks are a series and the games might be you know,
partially or all in the US every year. We're the
only one who gets a single game final every year
(37:58):
in a different Canadian city. So we want the NSL
Final to be, you know, the Great Cup, the women's
sport equivalent of the Great Cup. We want it to
be an annual celebration of women's sports. We want people
to travel to this meet other women's soccer fans and supporters.
I also just kind of want to build a reunion
for former women's soccer players so I can see my
(38:19):
friends every year. That's part of the plan too. So yeah,
really really excited for this inaugural final November fifteenth. So
if you're anywhere around Toronto or want to make the trip,
don't miss this one. It's going to be special.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Also, Bemo Field is the perfect soccer pitch in my opinion,
I've loved watching so many games there. Watch I'm sure
I've watched you there over the years, Diana watched a
lot of women's and men's national games as well as
domestic games, and it's just always the best time ever.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
Thank you so much for coming on. Oh sorry, go.
Speaker 5 (38:54):
Ahead, Yeah, I'd tell that too. I mean you asked
the question what was the learning, which I didn't really answer,
and the one I will say because you just said,
be more field, fantastic stadium as you said, excited to
have the final. The biggest learning is, like we knew
stadiums and soccer infrastructure was going to be a gap.
I think we were surprised to find how much more
of a gap we thought it was. We we do
(39:17):
not have enough sport infrastructure or soccer infrastructure in Canada
because we don't have the men's soccer history. Like the
soccer infrastructure we need is just not out there. Our
global peers all have a mid sized stadium for every
half million people, and in Canada we have one for
every eight million people, so it means there. You know,
the venues we're in are often wrong sized. We're second
(39:40):
or third tenant. It hurts broadcast time, it hurts attendance.
We don't control revenues in stadiums like it's it's an
uphill battle and that is absolutely going to be something
that we want to move the needle on in the
next few years, is building and developing more soccer infrastructure,
because that's been it's a massive gap in this country
right now.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
Thank you for that insight.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
It's so interesting to hear that ratio between Canada to
other countries and that half a.
Speaker 4 (40:06):
Million to eight million, that's a very much margin.
Speaker 5 (40:08):
I'm including like you know, England or the United States,
like Australia, or like Denmark, like keeping it.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Reasonable and the watching experience for soccer is just so
different than any other sport too.
Speaker 4 (40:22):
For things to keep in mind.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Dana, thank you so much for joining. Big fan of you,
big fan of everything that you and the team are
building at the NFL. All of our gisters, please tune
into that November fifteenth Championship. We promise you won't want
to miss it. And Diana saying in.
Speaker 5 (40:39):
Touch absolutely thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Okay, I'm coming in with a little message from us,
a little message from the gist and what I wanted
to talk about really quick here Steph was the just
plus our new premium membership community. For a little bit
of background, the reason why we created the Just Plus
was because we listened to our audience. We listened to
our gisters for years and years and years and on
(41:06):
the whole, what people were telling us is that they
were loving what they just was covering, but that they
wanted more connection, more conversation, and honestly, a safe space
to talk about sports without the trolls. I think we
can all picture a Twitter thread or a Reddit thread,
whether it's on women's sports or men's sports, where you
just feel like that conversation or that space is not
(41:27):
for you. And so after all of these different focus
groups and phone interviews and whatnot, we decided to build
the Just Plus, which we define as a membership design
for real fans who want to dig deeper and connect
with each other. We've built two tiers within the Just Plus,
a Rookie Tier and then the All Star Tier. So
(41:49):
the Rookie tier allows you to join our ultra supportive
Discord community, which I am obsessed with. I talk in
every single day, get a member's only newsletter once a
month with deeper stories, and then you also get discounts
on Just apparel, any events that we're going to run,
et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 4 (42:08):
And then with the.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
All Star tier, you get everything that rookies get, but
you also get an exclusive podcast feed where twice a
month you get access to new podcasts but also early
access to podcasts. Two partner perks, and then those partner
perks are really from teams from your favorite leagues, the
(42:29):
Colorado Avalanche, Boston Bruins, Gotham FC, what have you, as
well as different sports bars like Rough and Tumble or
the Sports Bra which is so much fun and so
we would just love for you to check it out
and come be part of our community.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
We really feel like our.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Podcast listeners would be the greatest addition ever to the
just plus member membership group. And no matter what tier
you choose, you really are helping us build the better
sports Internet, one that is inclusive and one that is
fan first. So if you're interested or if this caught
your eye, to the sports dot Com and there's a
tab that says the just Plus, go check that out.
(43:05):
We've also linked the just plus in our show notes
and we hope that we can find a way to
connect over there.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
All right, it's time for our personal training sesh. This
is the last segment of the podcast This is where
we invite you to be a part of everything that
we talk about, whether or not that's us answering a
question that you have about anything in the sports world,
or elevating a hot take you have, or you.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Responding to something that we've said on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
And today we have someone responding to a hot take
that you've made stuff and we alluded to this at
the beginning of the podcast. Do you want to enlighten
all of us on your hot take and then we'll shift.
Speaker 3 (43:49):
I would love to do that. So for some contacts.
When Lauren was on the podcast last week, we were
talking about the rivalry series that Team USA and Team
Canada have for women's hockey. So the rival itself is deep.
It goes back generations and generations of women's hockey players,
and that's what it's really built off of, is just
(44:09):
trying to elevate that rivalry. And that rivalry series, which
usually is like a series of five games, four game,
seven games depending on the year, is kind of like
a little mini tournament with just those two teams to
see who can come out victorious in a particular series.
And it was created when there was no official cross
(44:31):
border professional league that all of the Olympians who would
be playing on those two teams were in and so
it was really there to elevate and promote their product
and their talent and to help leverage what the Players
Association at the time was doing, which was trying to
negotiate and create a sustainable professional league. So that is
(44:54):
the history of the Rivalry Series. And so my hot
take when we were asking the question last week does
the Rivalry Series need to still exist? I said that
the frequent occurrence of the rivalry Series, in combination with
the Olympics every four years, and in combination with the
Women's World which is a yearly tournament, I think that
(45:14):
continuing the rivalry series actually dilutes that rivalry because we're
seeing the matchup way too frequently, So each match itself
isn't the same heightened, doesn't have that same heighten effect
that it used to, and it's not necessary now that
we have the PWHL. So because you're playing for your
your country, you obviously want to give it your all,
and so I think that it increases risk of injury
(45:38):
and it's not necessarily something that we need anymore.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
That was my hot take.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Great context, great hot take, and I loved it because jesters,
we're thinking about this afterwards.
Speaker 4 (45:48):
We had them thinking.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
So one of our listeners shoutout angs DMed Us and
Angie said, quote, love the episode about the rivalry series,
but I disagree. In the USA they play the games
on the NHL network and prime time to boot. I
think that it brings a wider audience to see how
incredible women's hockey is, and National Pride is a great
(46:09):
hook for new fans. I do agree that an adjustment
in the timing with the PWHL season is in order.
Speaker 4 (46:15):
I'm hyped to see.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
The upcoming players get drafted into the PW next year.
Murphy's Hattie was sick and Edward's homecoming made me all misty.
Love the future for our rivalry and hockey as a whole.
Thanks for all you do exclamation point end quote. Angie,
thank you so much for doming Us and for your
hot take and for your response.
Speaker 4 (46:37):
I love the conversation. I love the banter. It's great.
Did that change your mind at all?
Speaker 1 (46:43):
Stuff?
Speaker 3 (46:44):
I was on the just plus, I was in the
discord chat for that first game in the Rivalry series
and there were a couple of American justters saying that
they don't have a NHL network and that it wasn't
a part of their basic cable subscription.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
So I think this is obviously.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
A really great approach to the rivalry series to think
about how we can continue to track new fans. And
I think if that's the case, then they got to
put on ESPN, they got to put it on a
prime like a standard cable option at least. This is
me going off of the feedback from the just Plus.
Speaker 4 (47:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
It is really helpful to know though, because for context,
for listeners in Canada, you can generally watch PWHL games
on Sportsnet on TSN. They're accessible that way, and that's
not included in basic cable, but if you grab a
sports package, it's in the sports package, yeah, and you
can flip through the channels versus in the US. I
do believe the PWHL is on YouTube, and so as
(47:41):
a result, you're not necessarily just stumbling upon the PWHL
in the same way that you might stumble upon NFL, NHL,
what have you, although it's still harder to stumble upon
those ones these days too, and this has always been
the hardest part I think of women's sports is that
it's so great being on streamers because you're accessing this
(48:04):
audience that's more digitally savvy, young, diverse, what have you.
But as a result, you're really also reaching those avid
fans who are going to find you and love you
no matter what. And to sustain a league and to
sustain growth, you have to be developing fans. And the
way to develop fans is by making the sport accessible.
(48:26):
And so I think with the Rivalry series stuff, even
though it's on the NHL network, I think there it's like, oh,
we know that we're getting in front of hockey fans,
and so hopefully a hockey fan is already on the
NHL network, they already are subscribed and they're like, oh
my goodness, I can go watch TMUSA team Canada.
Speaker 4 (48:45):
Let's f and go. And so I could see that
kind of like thought process. Would it be amazing to see.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Them on primetime on NBC or CBS or ESPN for
these rivalry games? Yes, And I think that's where the
true unlock would happen. But it's so helpful because I
feel like all of these, all of these geographical nuances
are really helpful.
Speaker 4 (49:11):
And I also think too stef.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
It's so interesting because in soccer you take breaks throughout
your regular season for international play, whether that's an official
tournament or just international friendlies. But in basketball, there's nothing
like that that's going on at the same time. And
I almost feel like women's hockey is almost somewhere in
between right now, where there's sometimes pause for this international play.
(49:38):
But the international play is only the US and Canada
because the game hasn't gone global enough. I think the
Scandinavian countries and European countries will get into it soon
in China, but I you know what I mean, And
so I just I kind of wonder, like, what does
the international landscape look like for women's hockey moving.
Speaker 3 (49:55):
Forward, and so how does the Women's World's play into
all of this versus the Rivalry series and in terms
of growing the fan base for the p WHL.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
Yeah, exactly, especially because they change the timing of the
Worlds to the November before the season starts as well,
which I think is a really nice offshoot into the
p WHL season.
Speaker 3 (50:17):
Versus there are going to be two games for the
rivalry series after season start.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
I believe, right, Yeah, Am I right?
Speaker 5 (50:23):
I think so?
Speaker 3 (50:24):
I think so so hopefully it'll could grab some of
those hockey fans that are fans of the NHL into
the p dub live during the season.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
That's a good yeah, potentially watched the Olympics and then
go whoop from from there potentially too.
Speaker 4 (50:38):
It's all a funnel. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
The solution is just put it more TV more, put
them on more channels, more, more baby mores more.
Speaker 4 (50:50):
And with that we've talked a lot today.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
More is not always more in the case of us
that art today's episode.
Speaker 4 (50:55):
Thank y'all so much for tuning in.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
We'd love for you to be featured on future episode
for the personal training sash, your hot takes, your questions,
whatever it is. Leave us a voicemail at one four
three seven five six four five five seven nine, the
numbers in the show notes.
Speaker 4 (51:09):
You can literally just click on it. We love your voices.
Call us.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
Email us at pod at thejisports dot com or d
m us on Instagram. Steph is at Sephanie Rots and
I am at ellen Ethagist.
Speaker 3 (51:19):
And that marks the end of today's episode. We'll be
back in your feed with a new podcast on Tuesday.
In the meantime, in addition to given yes, a personal
training sash. We would absolutely love if you could rate, review,
and subscribe to the podcast.
Speaker 1 (51:30):
This episode was edited by Savannah Hold and produced by
lisam and Attillo and Alisandra Puccio.
Speaker 4 (51:34):
Again, I'm Ellen
Speaker 3 (51:35):
Hisslap and I'm Steph Rotts and enjoy the NFL Final
this weekend and what pore we begin on Tuesday have
(53:00):
to be to a drink
What's up our favorite people? Welcome or welcome back to
another episode of the Gist of It. Today is Thursday,
November thirteenth. We're your co hosts.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm Ellen Hyslop and I am Steph Rotts, and we.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Have a jam packed episode today. I have a lot
to talk well, we have a lot to talk about.
In the calling an audible section, I gave stuff a
little bit of a preview just to let her know
what we're going to talk about. We have an amazing interview,
and then we also have a spicy hot take to
end the pod.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
I'm so excited and I am so happy that you
were proud of me doing a hot take, because the
thing about Ellen is she's always trying to empower me
to share my hot takes, either via TikTok or on
the podcast because I need to be liked. It's something
I need to get over. And I did it while
she was gone, without even her moral support. So we're
(00:59):
going to circle back to a hot take that I
had last week.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
I'm always so proud of you. I feel like i'm
your number one fangirl and I Steph, You're so smart,
and you're so eloquent and I love hearing your opinions,
and I feel like, because I love hearing your opinions
so much, I feel like other people would love to
hear them too.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Mom picked me up. I'm crying.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
But anyway, we have a lot to get to today.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Ill to say, it's a jam packed episode, but it
is extra cool because I got to chat actually with
one of my dad's heroes and as a result, one
of my heroes too. We sat down with and we
wrote this as Canadian soccer Royalty, but I would like
to slash out the Canadian and just say soccer royalty.
We got to said period, end of story. We got
(01:46):
to sit down with Diana Mathieson. You are not familiar
with her. She is a Canadian woman's national soccer team legend.
She is a two time Olympic medalist. She's the founder
and chief growth officer of the Northern Super League or
the NSL, which is the new domestic league in Canada.
And so that sounds all very Canadian, but for our
(02:09):
Americans listening, you really do need to care about her. Obviously,
we all care about all Olympians, regardless of what country
they played for or represented.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
What have you?
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Diana Matheson played for Princeton from two thousand and four
to two thousand and seven and was the Ivy League
Player of the Year in two thousand and seven and
was Princeton Women's Athlete of the Year in two thousand
and eight. This is all from Wikipedia, so like we
got a fact check some of this. She also played
in the NWSL since its inception, so from twenty thirteen
(02:43):
to twenty twenty one, Diana Matheson played in the NWSL.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
She's kind of in the.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Same age group era as an Abby Womback or Christine Sinclair.
That's where I would kind of loop her into. She
played for the Washington Spirit Seattle Rain Utah Royals in
Kansas City, so she has been there and done that
and been that person.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
And I'd like to say she's done all of this stuff. Wow.
And I've had the pleasure.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Of meeting her in person before, so I knew that
she was a shorty girl. But then when we were
again checking on Wikipedia, she is five feet blank per Wikipedia.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
And to.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Have the career that she has.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Had at five feet in women's is incredible. I cannot
imagine how hard that would have been for her, but
also how much That speaks to what an incredible soccer
player she was and what she would have leaned into
in order to hone her craft and her skills at
this entirely next level.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yes, because of course soccer players are shorter than basketball
players are volleyball players. But you still have to run, Yes,
you still have a disadvantage. It is incredible she'd been
able to achieve regardless of her height included. Do you
know what I always find in hockey, But there's some
short centers that are always really good, like what's in
(04:05):
what's about that?
Speaker 1 (04:06):
But you always wonder, Okay, they're really good, but would
they make it to the ke tow wu HL or
NHL Maybe maybe rarely, not that I say those are
those are really special people like a Martine Saint Luis
or Brad Marsham or even a cool caw Field or
Connor Bodard. Those are short dudes and they're really good,
(04:30):
but they're few and far between, you know what I mean.
And I feel like that's the same in soccer. Like there,
I'd say, if you're gonna be playing at that NWSL level,
you're looking at a five to five and that would
be kind of the shortest of where you're kind of playing.
I don't know, maybe a five four, maybe a cheeky
five four five four.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Famously the average height of a Canadian woman.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
There you go, that's dropped a little bit.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
I think States is five five in Canada's five for But.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
I like that comparison because again, when I saw Trinity
Rodman beside Paigebeckers, I did audibly gasp because I was like,
what do you mean Paige Beckers is taller than Trinity Rodman.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
But it's all relative.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
So anyway, we are talking to Diana Matheson today.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
The nsl's first ever championship.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Is going down this weekend between AFC Toronto and Vancouver Rise.
And it was so great talking to her stuff because
she has this soccer life, but then she also has
this business life, and she's also wicked smart. She went
to Princeton, has her executive MBA, has done all of
these incredible programs overseas with FIFA, and so learning from
(05:43):
her and talking to her about the business side of
things was also such a treat.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Oh my gosh, I'm so happy for you. Yeah, wow,
what a treat, and what a treat for everyone to
listen in.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I'm so excited.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Yes, trick or treat. That was so late of me.
I'm sorry so for you're a mom now, oh my god. No,
but I'm a cool mom.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I'm a cool but you keep you girls, keep me
yet you.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Girls can be me dancing anyway. I do have an
audible to call.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
And like we've been talking about lately, Seph, how aremn okay?
Speaker 4 (06:23):
A we? Why are men so dramatic?
Speaker 1 (06:27):
And this is of that same theme. So I want
to call an audible at the top of this podcast
to talk about the Dallas Mavericks and the fact that
they have fired their general manager Nico Harrison finally and
that this is a long time coming. And so on
Tuesday's podcast, in case you missed it, we talked about
(06:48):
a betting scandal that was rocking Major League Baseball. Nico
Harrison is a GM for the MAVs in the NBA.
He recently was fired. The Mavericks are having a pretty
bad start to the season. I would say, but if
you you might recall this name because this guy.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Was the general.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Manager who orchestrated that horrible trade to send Luka Doncic
from the Dallas Mavericks to the LA Lakers. Sending Anthony
Davis in a collection of other draft picks and players
back to the Dallas Mavericks. And ever since then, fans
have been calling for this man to be fired, like
(07:28):
please take him out of Dallas, and it is. It
has finally, finally happened, and the response around the internet
stef is very interesting to me.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
The Athletics headline about this is Nico Harrison's firing leaves
one big question for Mavericks.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
What took so long?
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Literally, what took so long?
Speaker 1 (07:52):
So this this trade, if you all will remember, was
in the wee hours of February of this year, which
is wild that it was only nine months ago, and Harrison,
in one of the pressers or something after that, basically
said like time will tell if I'm right, if it
was worth trading for ad. They also did get Cooper
(08:15):
Flag somehow getting the number one pick in the draft
through the draft lottery, which was very mysterious, and so
he said, time will tell if I'm right. And so
nine months later, stuff, time has run out on Nico
Harrison and it's still pretty early in the season, but
the MAVs aren't showing a lot of promise. They sit
at the bottom of the Western Conference. They're only ahead
(08:39):
of the New Orleans Pelicans right now, which is saying
something they have as at the time of recording three
and eight record. Meanwhile, the Lakers have an eight and
three record, and so I think people are just like, Okay,
can we get him out of here? And there's a
lot of Steph. I don't know if you've seen this,
but there's some like conspiracy theories around Nico Harrison too.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
What yeah, his firing or him at large.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
I would say like him at large. There's a lot
of lore with him, but I think one of the
conspiracy theories is that he hasn't been a manager for
Dallas for that long. And one of the conspiracy theories
was essentially like, Okay, the NBA is crafting this wild
trade so that they could have a big name come
(09:26):
into a big market like the LA Lakers in preparation
that Lebron James is going to retire at some point
if he if he stops tricking us, Lebron James is
going to get fired, like going to sorry, retire at
some point. He will never get fired, retire at some point,
and that this guy was like almost escape coat in
(09:48):
all of this and like was potentially brought in to
do some quote unquote like dirty work and all of this.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
So it's just gonna it's just it's just a.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Like there's so and then there's a lot of stuff
on like TikTok about this guy that I'd encourage you
guys to like take all with a grade assaults when
you go and see these things. But it's all so
fascinating and I am excited to see this guy gone,
Like I just don't even know how that trade made
it through the organization period in the first place. And
so now a lot of people are questioning stuff like
(10:21):
what's next.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
For the MAVs front office.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Who is going There's like some people who have been
promoted on an interim basis. But like Dallas, a lot
of people call it like a mid market, but I'd
say it's a pretty big sports market when you look
at the Dallas Cowboys, when you think about Texas as
a state, the population in Dallas is big. There's a
huge corporate presence there, and so this is a big
(10:45):
market that the NBA wants to get right. And it
just feels like right now Dallas is floundering and they
need to figure it out and quickly.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
I am happy for those fans though that started the
fire and eco chance. At least they got what they wanted.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Revenge.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Raby is at the was sponsored by BIMO, the bank
that has supported the growth of the game in North
America for twenty years now. They're the official bank of
Canada's very own Northern Super League aka the NFL. As
we cover the NFL final, we're tipping our hats to
BMO for making Canada's first professional women's soccer league possible,
as they're also the NFL's broadcast partner. Whether you're cheering
(11:21):
for AFC Toronto or Vancouver Rise FC, BIMO is here
to support your soccer fandom. Learn more about how PIMO
is growing the beautiful game by visiting our soccer help
desk at the link in our show notes. Today again,
to learn more about how pemo's growing that beautiful game
of soccer, visit our show notes.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Okay, as mentioned, today's one Big story is an early
holiday present. I want to say for any women's sports fan,
for any soccer fan, for any women's soccer fan. Diana Matheson,
as we listed out her resume at the top, is
a true icon for the sport.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
She had a whopping. We didn't mention this two hundred eight.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Appearances for the Canadian women's national teams throughout her very
storied career, and I think she one thing too stuff
And we get into this in the interview a little bit.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
But one thing that I respect.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
So much from that generation is that they were playing
soccer for the love of playing soccer. They were going
out there to represent their national team. They didn't know
if they could make money one day, you know what
I mean. And then when they did know that they
could make money, the type of money that they could
make was like thirty thousand dollars a year. And so
I feel like we owe so much to them, but
(12:40):
maybe we don't talk about it as much as we should.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
We owe so much to that generation, especially women's soccer.
They went through so such a tumultuous piece of soccer
history with the opening and closing of the League's Yeah, Kate,
just for my own knowledge, when someone appears for their
national they call.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
It a cap, right they do.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
So she's had two hundred and eight caps.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
That's it, Ah, Like, are really using the term?
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Look at you, she's a soccer girlie.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Also, the other day, you did say a score when
we weren't talking about soccer. That was one nothing and
you said one nil, and I was like, oh my god,
I've infiltrated her.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Oh time with that. I'm like ones when am I
supposed to say no, no, it was only soccer.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
It was so good.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
But what I was saying was is that I feel
circling back. I feel like she's had such an impact stuff.
I think I'm probably so many young women actually sticking
with soccer and hopefully going on to play in the
NWSL or NSL. And now she's literally created this entirely
new economy of soccer in Canada. And it's not just
(13:46):
Canadians who are benefiting from it. It's from people all
around the world too, And so I don't know, it's
just so cool.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Yet she's continuing to impact the global game in her
retirement as the founder and chief Growth Officer of the NFL,
and I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
So without further ado, let's listen in on Ellen and
Diana's conversation.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Diana, thank you so much for joining the gist of it.
I am so happy to have you here.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
I do have to say before we get into this, Diana,
I am a big soccer fan, soccer player, big Canadian
women's national team fan, and you are my dad's all
time favorite soccer player.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
He does not stop talking about you.
Speaker 5 (14:31):
What's your dad's name?
Speaker 4 (14:32):
His name is John.
Speaker 5 (14:33):
John, great to virtually meet you. Thanks for being a
ped My dad's name is John.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
To Way, there you go, there's that tie.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Well, thank you so much for giving him a shout
out that is completely going to make his day. And
a big thank you also to our friends at BIMO
for hooking us up with this interview for with an
icon like yourself.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
As you know, Diana.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Bibo is the official bank and broadcast partner of the NFL.
No surprise given their twenty year commitment to growing the
beautiful game of soccer in North America. Obviously, sponsorship and
endorsements and support from organizations are so important. What did
BEMO coming into the NSL ecosystem mean for you to
(15:15):
help grow the league?
Speaker 5 (15:17):
Yeah, it was it's everything. I mean, the plan to
get this league built, the catalysts. The money really came
from two sources. It came from investors who were buying
into own clubs across Canada and it came for sponsorship.
Those are the two main sources of money that get
this league launched and off the ground. So it was
(15:37):
you know, it was essential for partners like Bimo to
get involved and support the building of this league. And
it's you know, the investors and sponsors on board at
this point in time are are special because they signed
on the dotted line before we'd even kicked a ball.
Like these folks were literally signing up to an idea,
a dream, and I think we've found you know, in
(16:00):
both cases investors and sponsors, it's a fit for you know,
their values, a fit for their wider strategy. And obviously
Bemos been so involved in soccer over the years, many
many years in Canada. We were so excited to have
them on board with the Northern Super League.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
They saw the potential and they went for it, and
I love it.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Speaking of potential, Diana, you're not only a legendary soccer player,
but you're an entrepreneur building and doing everything that you've
done with Project Date moving into NSL. You initially, at
least a rumor has it, wrote the idea for the
Northern Super League.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
On a napkin at a bar is that true, and can.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
If so, can you kind of walk us through said bar,
said Napkin.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
And the story behind that.
Speaker 5 (16:45):
Well, like any I guess Smith, there's a seed of
truth to it, although perhaps not exactly true. I think
the idea of the league existed long before that meeting
in a bar. At the same time, I do have
such of the initial framework of the league. But that
meeting in the bar was an early drink with Thomas Gilbert,
(17:07):
my business partner. We found a project date together to
start this whole project, and we'd met together in our
executive and MA program, so we Yes, I can clearly
remember the bar. It was actually a bar around the
corner from me and Toronto has since closed so it
does not exist anymore. And we've done a few sketches
on a napkin, but it was it was ideas to
do with the league around the league, but it wasn't
(17:28):
exactly the original plan for league. So it is both
true but not entirely accurate.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Hey, never let the truth get in the way of
a good story, that is what I say, right, So
we're gonna keep running with that. Can you talk about Diana,
And you just mentioned your executive NBA, which were alumni
from the same school Shout out Queens, and we both
have that business background with your executive NBA, with everything
(17:54):
that you've also done overseas and all of the.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Different FIFA programs that you were part of.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Rom my business perspective, what was it like pitching the
NSL to investors? What was it like pitching the NSL
to all of these brands and that experience.
Speaker 5 (18:12):
Yeah, a good question, I would say, you know, background
is an athlete. Obviously that transition is an interesting one,
and I think you bring with you the things that
you learned and served you as an athlete, So you know,
I was really clear the huge importance of having a vision,
and it was that vision that you get people to
(18:32):
buy into and kind of steers you through all the
tough time. So at central to my pitch was why
this was important, the importance of building a pro league
in Canada and that clear vision of even though we
haven't started yet here in Canada, we have a world
class women's sport market, a world class women's soccer market,
and the pitch here is to build a top five
(18:53):
league in the world from scratch, buy women for women,
deserving of Canadian players and fans is the you know,
that was the pitch early days, and it's like anything else, right,
like it takes practice and every you know, you'd know,
every entrepreneur knows. Your pitch changes every time you do it,
and it evolves over the years, and in some ways
(19:14):
it never stops because we're still you know, we're out
there pitching still for you know, we've got the lee
kicked off this year for one point zero and then
we've got two point zero next year. So the pitch
has evolved in a lot of ways over the years.
We get new stats in women's sports every two weeks,
so we have to update the deck, a good problem about.
But in a lot of ways, the vision has stayed
(19:35):
the same throughout this this whole thing. I'll say too,
I've learned through the process I'm more like my dad
than I thought. John my dad, and that like he
he did a bit of sales in his in his
role in his career over the years, and I think
I channeled my inner John Matheson as we've been going
through the last three years.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
I love it constantly pitching, iterating, storytelling, changing your pitch
depending on who you're speaking to. As well, I feel like,
we definitely do that still all the time, as you
mentioned at the gist, but also in our early days
where we were in the same place as you have.
Either funding is coming from investors or grants or sponsors,
(20:17):
and how can we set ourselves up as an asset
for them too. How did you kind of manage some
of the naysayers early on? I'm sure that there were
some We had so many Diana early on that ended
up being investors down the road once we were able
to prove ourselves. But what has that been like, because
I think it's really hard starting a league. It's really
(20:41):
hard also when you look at the broader women's sports
and women's soccer ecosystem, where some things have worked, some
things haven't.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
People might be a little bit more risk averse when
they shouldn't be when it comes to women period. What
was that like?
Speaker 5 (20:57):
Oh my gosh, yeah, yeah, you And I'm sure I've
heard of a lot of the same thing. Yes, over
the years. I think I learned pretty early on to
you know, every pitch we were doing felt less like
you know, a sales call, and it felt more just
like a discovery call. You could tell pretty early on
(21:18):
based on the questions. They asked how they responded to
the content, if they were going to get it, or
if they won't, or if they weren't. And I think
we learned pretty early on that we couldn't or didn't
need to spend much time at all trying to convince
the people that weren't going to get it. There's a
whole bunch of people that are never going to get it.
(21:40):
Let's not waste time on them. There's people that are
going to get it. They just have to see it first,
and they're not going to be able to get it
until they see it. And that's okay, we can't get
them yet, we'll get them later. To your point, maybe
they'll end up investing later. But there's lots of people
out there that get it, and those are the ones
we're going to spend time and energy on because we
don't have infinite time and energy. So I think that
(22:00):
was the lesson early early on. You know, it was
a better time in the last five years pitching women's
sport than certainly in any period of time in the past.
There was, as you know, better than anyone. There was
finally data we could put point two. One of the
main reasons I think we're in finally the era of
the business of women's sports is because data exists, which
(22:22):
it did not before, So we didn't have any numbers
to disprove so many of those narrative, false narratives around
women's sport. Like when we started this project, the earliest
data I could find that existed on women's sports, women's
sports fan was twenty nineteen. Like that's how new this is.
So the data helped and a lot of times, you know,
no one spent a lot of time really thinking about
(22:44):
the women's sport industry or the business of women's sports.
So it was just providing them as much information as
we can providing data. And honestly, the other thought that
comes from mind too is like it hasn't stopped. It's
the awareness of women's sports now way way higher. Like
still so many misconceptions, miss and bias is still out there,
(23:07):
Still so many folks, you know, not really believing there's
a business here, and it's a bit of a fad.
And so I would say, like it's a little disheartening
how much we still get crazy stuff. But you know,
same approach, don't spend too much time on the folks
that aren't going to get it. There's there's you know,
a billion billions of people out there that do.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
That's such great advice. I wish that we learned that faster.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
At the same SCEE that you did, we were still
trying to convince people who just wouldn't get it until
to your point, they saw it. They see the success
and it is really different in the Canadian market right
to day, and especially seeing the development in Canadian professional
women's sports over the last really three years. Honestly, it
has been where we start to see it take off
(23:52):
in comparison to beforehand. A question that our gisters give
us a lot about the is why choose to develop
a Canadian league starting with six clubs as opposed to
almost doing what the WNBA has done or the NBA
or MLB what have you has done and say, okay,
(24:13):
there's an NWSL team in name and market in Canada.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
What was your approach to that?
Speaker 5 (24:20):
Yeah, great question. We got asked that a lot too.
The answer is it's both. It's kind of three things.
There's a soccer answer, there's a business answer, and there's
a patriotic answer. I think on the soccer side. The
goal here is to continue to win Olympic medals and
to win women's World Cups, and women's soccer initially grew
(24:42):
through national teams, that's where all the money was. In
the last five ten years, all the investment, all the
development has been through professional leagues and clubs where we
as players spend ninety five percent of our times. And
you've seen in countries where they really invested Spain, England,
et cetera, et cetera. These countries have gone from nowhere
on the world stage tow winning the biggest titles out there.
And the reality was, unless we started to build a
(25:05):
professional league with these professional pathways from coast to coast,
developing players in professional environments in five ten years, we
were going to start to be left behind and we
weren't going to be able to compete with all these
countries in the world that were doing that. And if
we had gone, you know, the North American Sport model,
we had a couple clubs join the NWSL, very likely
(25:26):
it would be you know, a team in Toronto, team
in Vancouver, and those are two of the three cities
where we actually have some of the only pathways for
girls in women's soccer through our National Development centers through
Canaas soccer, the NWSL would absolutely limit how many Canadians
could play on those teams because there was always a discussion.
The fear would be, you don't want the Canadian women's
(25:47):
national team, you know, being a whole roster in the NWSL,
so you got to limit Canadians. So now you know,
if we do that, we've impacted twelve pro players in Toronto,
twelve in Vancouver, a couple coaches, a couple referees, and
nowhere else across Canais. So we're not really moving the
needle on developing more players, coaches, referees. We're not impacting
(26:09):
the system at all. So that's not going to win
US World Cups. That's still going to leave us behind.
That's the soccer answer. The business answer is, I think
the North American sport model, you know, and we have
so many of them, Peter Bhlwnba, I think it works
really well where those sports and those leagues are, you know,
the one best league in the world, right I think
(26:30):
it works less well in soccer, which is a global market,
and in Canada we have one of the best sport
markets in the world. Like what we haven't many many
people watch the JAS as did. We have one of
the best women's sports markets in the world, the fandom here,
and it's just getting started. We have one of the
highest participations for girls that participate in sport and girls
(26:53):
that participate in soccer. We produce some of the world's
best players. And we've had awareness of the women's national
team and women's soccer for over a decade. So given
all these building blocks, world class building blocks, why would
we not try and build a league to compete amongst
the best leagues in the world. And not doing so
just felt like it was selling ourselves short and not
(27:14):
believing in ourselves. And in Canada, you know, we have
the potential to be one of the best in the world.
We often don't like to, you know, go out and
maybe compete as Canadians and say we're world class of things.
But I think women's sport is an exception. I think
women's sport, in women's athletes in Canada go out and
compete and win internationally every day, and we want this
(27:37):
league to be no different. And you know, I wanted
to live in Canada. I didn't want to have to
move out of the country again. I spent seventeen years abroad,
and this is about building opportunities at home for future players, fans, referees,
women in media, women in business, that whole thing, because
we're really really good at this and it's time to
go out and compete against the rest of the world.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
I love that, and I think I too. You're developing
a soccer economy in Canada and you're developing opportunities for
women to get paid, but also for these brands, these sponsors,
these investors to see ROI on their dollar two by
associating with the league like the NFL, I think to Diana,
I'm always in such awe of your generation and even
(28:21):
the current generation of soccer players hockey players, because when
I was coming out of high school figuring out did
I want to go to the NCAA route to play soccer?
Did I want to end up staying at home? The
rhetoric in my house and in my head was like,
I love this sport so much, but it's not going
to be able to sustain me. I'm not going to
(28:42):
be able to make a living off of it. When
I'm graduating in twenty fourteen, the NWSL had just got started,
and I think that Canada and at and a lot
of North America has lost so much talent to them
just simply not being able to figure it out from
a financial persons of I can't see myself being able
to make money playing the sport that I love, so
(29:04):
I'm just not going to Whereas on the men's side.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
They've never had that thought.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Of course, if they wanted to keep on competing and playing,
they could go for it and try it, and they'd
make incredible amounts of money doing it. I'm so curious
on your side data how you made that decision for
yourself when you're thinking, Okay, I'm going to go out
and be a professional soccer player, but I know that
that means I'm going to mostly be associated with the
(29:30):
national team.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
I know I'm going to have to play.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Abroad, and I know I'm probably not going to be
able to make as much money than if I actually
went a corporate route or followed John and his sales footsteps.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
Like, what's that been like?
Speaker 1 (29:47):
And how do you feel like the NSL is changing
that for these upcoming generations?
Speaker 5 (29:54):
Yeah? Good, good question. I think in part of your
question there that kind of I don't I think I
thought about it in that way at all. There was
less the process of, oh, you know, I want to
play on the national team or want to play pro,
but you know, I have to leave the country and
I'm not going to make a ton of money. It
was more like there was not an awareness that either
(30:14):
of those things was an option. You know, I'm forty
one now, so I was more of the era where
I maybe saw the women's national team on like TV,
like once or twice, I barely knew they existed. Certainly,
playing professionally wasn't an option. Women's soccer wasn't in the
Olympics yet, so it wasn't until you know, some of
my friends started to make the national team or the
(30:36):
youth national team I even knew it was a thing. Wow,
And then you know, my soccer journey, I think, was
very much just going where the game took me and
opening doors as they they came to me, and I
just I love to play and I was going to
I was going to continue to walk through doors as
long as they continue to open. So, you know, I
(30:58):
wasn't on the national team yet when I was applying
for schools, but I knew for it to be an option.
The pathway at the time was NC DOUBLEA, So I
went down to NC DOUBLEA, played there, got on the
national team, and then when I retired from university, I
knew to continue to compete on the national team. Players
were starting to play pro, so okay, okay, I'll try
and play pro now. Our coach was Norwegian at the time,
(31:21):
so went to Norway. So kind of just continued to
make decisions as they came up, and I think the
game evolved kind of at the same time I was
going through it and became more professional, and like people
weren't making big money anywhere, Like that wasn't it wasn't
it wasn't an option, so I wasn't And yeah, I
(31:41):
don't know, it was a no brainer. Like I graduated
from Princeton with an economics degree. I had a lot
of friends like go straight to New York and work
for hedge funds and make a ton of money, And
that genuinely never appealed to me because those people also
seemed miserable and after jobs years later and I figured,
you know what, I'll play soccer. We don't make a
ton of money, but between the pro salary and some
(32:02):
government karting and maybe the odd prize money and the
odd camps. I have basically no expenses because you know,
I live with the team and don't have a mortgage
or any dependent so you know I can at least
save money. And yeah, so I just I was still
the era where we were grinding it out and just
going where the game took us.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
You're built different, Diana, I have to say, and that's
why you're so successful and you've done so many incredible
things both on and off the pitch. I do want
to come to your Canadian women's national team experience and
also your mention of playing abroad. I will never forget
the Olympic medals that you won. There were some spicy
(32:41):
games that were so much fun to watch from home,
and I think you've really inspired my fandom. How did
the fan reaction of you winning a couple of Olympic
medals influence the NSL? How did your experience in Norway
and all of these other countries that you've played in
influence how you've shaped the MSL similar to them or
(33:04):
different from them. I'm really curious about how that all
came together from a league perspective for you.
Speaker 5 (33:10):
Yeah, I think you know in terms of metals. It
was absolutely the bronze medal in twenty twelve that you know,
turn the page for Canadian women's soccer. That's a foundational moment,
a watermark moment that you know, there was before soccer
in Canada and after soccer in Canada. I think with
that moment and you mentioned it like so many players
(33:31):
in my generation are out there doing things. It was
you know, it was because John Hrdman came in and
started to push us all to you know, build more
leadership skills, have a clear vision. You know that we
rallied around which was really we want to leave the
game better than we found it. And you can still
see as that generation of players, like you said, you
know is out there doing things Rihann and karm, top coaches,
(33:53):
Kaylin Kyle at MLS, Karana LeBlanc, just running things in
Portland like I can go on and on. So that
and we had the you said it like it was
the fans, the awareness after twenty twelve gave us the
platform and the opportunity that we didn't have before. You know,
it was the same group of players have been on
(34:14):
that team for ten years. No one knew who we
were and we came home from that games and we
were getting recognized, you know, in the airport and the
subway in Toronto, and a platform makes a big difference,
you know, trying to get the Northern super League going
and reaching out for meetings. It mattered that my name
had recognition and that I had Olympic medals to my name.
That opens doors and without twenty twelve, you know, we
(34:36):
wouldn't have had any of that platform to do it.
On the pro side, I think my experience playing professionally
in Norway and the NWSL, you know, from when it
started to about year seven, I think definitely informed what
we were doing in the NWSL. Those were you know,
those were early days women's pro sports. I think the
(34:57):
defining factor being you know it was it was it
was invested in more because it was the right thing
to do quote unquote as she does air quotes on
a podcast and let's go, because the belief was there
that it was a sustainable and profitable business. So you
saw as a result, things weren't invested in, things weren't
(35:20):
put on television, things weren't marketed in the same way
where you where if you believed, you know, this product
could grow and as a result, you know, it didn't
grow as fast as a kid. And then as soon
as you saw those things change, you've seen the acceleration
in all the leagues, so just so many you know,
to really simplified building the Northern Super League, it was
(35:40):
pretty basic. It was like, let's just treat it like
a business and it's going to be fine. Yes, Like
it was almost simplifying that much like so many things
at women's sports, they just weren't running like businesses and
so let's do that and we're in good shape. And
then of course do like lots of things just around
making sure we had values behind the league. There can
be a lack of transparency sometimes in sport. There's terrible,
(36:04):
terrible history of safe sport issues in both Canadian sport
and in the NWSL. So we wanted to build in
really strong safe sports safeguards from day one, and building
in the player's voice too. You know, I come from
an athlete's rights background help build the Women's National Team
Players Association, So we built in things from the beginning,
like a lot of the stuff the NWSL players we
(36:25):
were fighting for those first seven years and achieved in
like year eight or nine. We just built them into
the contracts at the Northern Super League. Like guaranteed contracts,
you can't be waived, you have to approve maternity rights.
We just puilt them in and we want to work
really closely with the player's voice as we grow that thing,
because I understand how important it is.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
What you're building is so special. I have a last
question for you before we go.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
I could chat forever at the time of recording, and
we were talking about this beforehand. The four team NSL
postseason fields is set happening right now or through our
first legs. We're gearing up to crown the champion with
the Diana Mathison Trophy, which I love, by the way,
on November fifteenth at BMO Fields in Toronto.
Speaker 4 (37:13):
What are some of the learnings you'll take away from
this first season?
Speaker 5 (37:16):
Oh my gosh, so many things. Yeah, we're in the
you know, you know how it is startup year one.
Everything this year it had to be built from scratch,
including these inaugural playoffs and the first NFL Final. So
I think like there'll be a lot of things we
learned after we're out of season and get the chance
(37:36):
to take a deep breath and debrief, But we're really
excited about November fifteenth, this inaugural NSL final. You know,
out of the three women's pro leagues, we're the only
one that has a single game final format. The other
folks are a series and the games might be you know,
partially or all in the US every year. We're the
only one who gets a single game final every year
(37:58):
in a different Canadian city. So we want the NSL
Final to be, you know, the Great Cup, the women's
sport equivalent of the Great Cup. We want it to
be an annual celebration of women's sports. We want people
to travel to this meet other women's soccer fans and supporters.
I also just kind of want to build a reunion
for former women's soccer players so I can see my
(38:19):
friends every year. That's part of the plan too. So yeah,
really really excited for this inaugural final November fifteenth. So
if you're anywhere around Toronto or want to make the trip,
don't miss this one. It's going to be special.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Also, Bemo Field is the perfect soccer pitch in my opinion,
I've loved watching so many games there. Watch I'm sure
I've watched you there over the years, Diana watched a
lot of women's and men's national games as well as
domestic games, and it's just always the best time ever.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
Thank you so much for coming on. Oh sorry, go.
Speaker 5 (38:54):
Ahead, Yeah, I'd tell that too. I mean you asked
the question what was the learning, which I didn't really answer,
and the one I will say because you just said,
be more field, fantastic stadium as you said, excited to
have the final. The biggest learning is, like we knew
stadiums and soccer infrastructure was going to be a gap.
I think we were surprised to find how much more
of a gap we thought it was. We we do
(39:17):
not have enough sport infrastructure or soccer infrastructure in Canada
because we don't have the men's soccer history. Like the
soccer infrastructure we need is just not out there. Our
global peers all have a mid sized stadium for every
half million people, and in Canada we have one for
every eight million people, so it means there. You know,
the venues we're in are often wrong sized. We're second
(39:40):
or third tenant. It hurts broadcast time, it hurts attendance.
We don't control revenues in stadiums like it's it's an
uphill battle and that is absolutely going to be something
that we want to move the needle on in the
next few years, is building and developing more soccer infrastructure,
because that's been it's a massive gap in this country
right now.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
Thank you for that insight.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
It's so interesting to hear that ratio between Canada to
other countries and that half a.
Speaker 4 (40:06):
Million to eight million, that's a very much margin.
Speaker 5 (40:08):
I'm including like you know, England or the United States,
like Australia, or like Denmark, like keeping it.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Reasonable and the watching experience for soccer is just so
different than any other sport too.
Speaker 4 (40:22):
For things to keep in mind.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Dana, thank you so much for joining. Big fan of you,
big fan of everything that you and the team are
building at the NFL. All of our gisters, please tune
into that November fifteenth Championship. We promise you won't want
to miss it. And Diana saying in.
Speaker 5 (40:39):
Touch absolutely thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Okay, I'm coming in with a little message from us,
a little message from the gist and what I wanted
to talk about really quick here Steph was the just
plus our new premium membership community. For a little bit
of background, the reason why we created the Just Plus
was because we listened to our audience. We listened to
our gisters for years and years and years and on
(41:06):
the whole, what people were telling us is that they
were loving what they just was covering, but that they
wanted more connection, more conversation, and honestly, a safe space
to talk about sports without the trolls. I think we
can all picture a Twitter thread or a Reddit thread,
whether it's on women's sports or men's sports, where you
just feel like that conversation or that space is not
(41:27):
for you. And so after all of these different focus
groups and phone interviews and whatnot, we decided to build
the Just Plus, which we define as a membership design
for real fans who want to dig deeper and connect
with each other. We've built two tiers within the Just Plus,
a Rookie Tier and then the All Star Tier. So
(41:49):
the Rookie tier allows you to join our ultra supportive
Discord community, which I am obsessed with. I talk in
every single day, get a member's only newsletter once a
month with deeper stories, and then you also get discounts
on Just apparel, any events that we're going to run,
et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 4 (42:08):
And then with the.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
All Star tier, you get everything that rookies get, but
you also get an exclusive podcast feed where twice a
month you get access to new podcasts but also early
access to podcasts. Two partner perks, and then those partner
perks are really from teams from your favorite leagues, the
(42:29):
Colorado Avalanche, Boston Bruins, Gotham FC, what have you, as
well as different sports bars like Rough and Tumble or
the Sports Bra which is so much fun and so
we would just love for you to check it out
and come be part of our community.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
We really feel like our.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Podcast listeners would be the greatest addition ever to the
just plus member membership group. And no matter what tier
you choose, you really are helping us build the better
sports Internet, one that is inclusive and one that is
fan first. So if you're interested or if this caught
your eye, to the sports dot Com and there's a
tab that says the just Plus, go check that out.
(43:05):
We've also linked the just plus in our show notes
and we hope that we can find a way to
connect over there.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
All right, it's time for our personal training sesh. This
is the last segment of the podcast This is where
we invite you to be a part of everything that
we talk about, whether or not that's us answering a
question that you have about anything in the sports world,
or elevating a hot take you have, or you.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Responding to something that we've said on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
And today we have someone responding to a hot take
that you've made stuff and we alluded to this at
the beginning of the podcast. Do you want to enlighten
all of us on your hot take and then we'll shift.
Speaker 3 (43:49):
I would love to do that. So for some contacts.
When Lauren was on the podcast last week, we were
talking about the rivalry series that Team USA and Team
Canada have for women's hockey. So the rival itself is deep.
It goes back generations and generations of women's hockey players,
and that's what it's really built off of, is just
(44:09):
trying to elevate that rivalry. And that rivalry series, which
usually is like a series of five games, four game,
seven games depending on the year, is kind of like
a little mini tournament with just those two teams to
see who can come out victorious in a particular series.
And it was created when there was no official cross
(44:31):
border professional league that all of the Olympians who would
be playing on those two teams were in and so
it was really there to elevate and promote their product
and their talent and to help leverage what the Players
Association at the time was doing, which was trying to
negotiate and create a sustainable professional league. So that is
(44:54):
the history of the Rivalry Series. And so my hot
take when we were asking the question last week does
the Rivalry Series need to still exist? I said that
the frequent occurrence of the rivalry Series, in combination with
the Olympics every four years, and in combination with the
Women's World which is a yearly tournament, I think that
(45:14):
continuing the rivalry series actually dilutes that rivalry because we're
seeing the matchup way too frequently, So each match itself
isn't the same heightened, doesn't have that same heighten effect
that it used to, and it's not necessary now that
we have the PWHL. So because you're playing for your
your country, you obviously want to give it your all,
and so I think that it increases risk of injury
(45:38):
and it's not necessarily something that we need anymore.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
That was my hot take.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Great context, great hot take, and I loved it because jesters,
we're thinking about this afterwards.
Speaker 4 (45:48):
We had them thinking.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
So one of our listeners shoutout angs DMed Us and
Angie said, quote, love the episode about the rivalry series,
but I disagree. In the USA they play the games
on the NHL network and prime time to boot. I
think that it brings a wider audience to see how
incredible women's hockey is, and National Pride is a great
(46:09):
hook for new fans. I do agree that an adjustment
in the timing with the PWHL season is in order.
Speaker 4 (46:15):
I'm hyped to see.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
The upcoming players get drafted into the PW next year.
Murphy's Hattie was sick and Edward's homecoming made me all misty.
Love the future for our rivalry and hockey as a whole.
Thanks for all you do exclamation point end quote. Angie,
thank you so much for doming Us and for your
hot take and for your response.
Speaker 4 (46:37):
I love the conversation. I love the banter. It's great.
Did that change your mind at all?
Speaker 1 (46:43):
Stuff?
Speaker 3 (46:44):
I was on the just plus, I was in the
discord chat for that first game in the Rivalry series
and there were a couple of American justters saying that
they don't have a NHL network and that it wasn't
a part of their basic cable subscription.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
So I think this is obviously.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
A really great approach to the rivalry series to think
about how we can continue to track new fans. And
I think if that's the case, then they got to
put on ESPN, they got to put it on a
prime like a standard cable option at least. This is
me going off of the feedback from the just Plus.
Speaker 4 (47:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
It is really helpful to know though, because for context,
for listeners in Canada, you can generally watch PWHL games
on Sportsnet on TSN. They're accessible that way, and that's
not included in basic cable, but if you grab a
sports package, it's in the sports package, yeah, and you
can flip through the channels versus in the US. I
do believe the PWHL is on YouTube, and so as
(47:41):
a result, you're not necessarily just stumbling upon the PWHL
in the same way that you might stumble upon NFL, NHL,
what have you, although it's still harder to stumble upon
those ones these days too, and this has always been
the hardest part I think of women's sports is that
it's so great being on streamers because you're accessing this
(48:04):
audience that's more digitally savvy, young, diverse, what have you.
But as a result, you're really also reaching those avid
fans who are going to find you and love you
no matter what. And to sustain a league and to
sustain growth, you have to be developing fans. And the
way to develop fans is by making the sport accessible.
(48:26):
And so I think with the Rivalry series stuff, even
though it's on the NHL network, I think there it's like, oh,
we know that we're getting in front of hockey fans,
and so hopefully a hockey fan is already on the
NHL network, they already are subscribed and they're like, oh
my goodness, I can go watch TMUSA team Canada.
Speaker 4 (48:45):
Let's f and go. And so I could see that
kind of like thought process. Would it be amazing to see.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Them on primetime on NBC or CBS or ESPN for
these rivalry games? Yes, And I think that's where the
true unlock would happen. But it's so helpful because I
feel like all of these, all of these geographical nuances
are really helpful.
Speaker 4 (49:11):
And I also think too stef.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
It's so interesting because in soccer you take breaks throughout
your regular season for international play, whether that's an official
tournament or just international friendlies. But in basketball, there's nothing
like that that's going on at the same time. And
I almost feel like women's hockey is almost somewhere in
between right now, where there's sometimes pause for this international play.
(49:38):
But the international play is only the US and Canada
because the game hasn't gone global enough. I think the
Scandinavian countries and European countries will get into it soon
in China, but I you know what I mean, And
so I just I kind of wonder, like, what does
the international landscape look like for women's hockey moving.
Speaker 3 (49:55):
Forward, and so how does the Women's World's play into
all of this versus the Rivalry series and in terms
of growing the fan base for the p WHL.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
Yeah, exactly, especially because they change the timing of the
Worlds to the November before the season starts as well,
which I think is a really nice offshoot into the
p WHL season.
Speaker 3 (50:17):
Versus there are going to be two games for the
rivalry series after season start.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
I believe, right, Yeah, Am I right?
Speaker 5 (50:23):
I think so?
Speaker 3 (50:24):
I think so so hopefully it'll could grab some of
those hockey fans that are fans of the NHL into
the p dub live during the season.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
That's a good yeah, potentially watched the Olympics and then
go whoop from from there potentially too.
Speaker 4 (50:38):
It's all a funnel. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
The solution is just put it more TV more, put
them on more channels, more, more baby mores more.
Speaker 4 (50:50):
And with that we've talked a lot today.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
More is not always more in the case of us
that art today's episode.
Speaker 4 (50:55):
Thank y'all so much for tuning in.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
We'd love for you to be featured on future episode
for the personal training sash, your hot takes, your questions,
whatever it is. Leave us a voicemail at one four
three seven five six four five five seven nine, the
numbers in the show notes.
Speaker 4 (51:09):
You can literally just click on it. We love your voices.
Call us.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
Email us at pod at thejisports dot com or d
m us on Instagram. Steph is at Sephanie Rots and
I am at ellen Ethagist.
Speaker 3 (51:19):
And that marks the end of today's episode. We'll be
back in your feed with a new podcast on Tuesday.
In the meantime, in addition to given yes, a personal
training sash. We would absolutely love if you could rate, review,
and subscribe to the podcast.
Speaker 1 (51:30):
This episode was edited by Savannah Hold and produced by
lisam and Attillo and Alisandra Puccio.
Speaker 4 (51:34):
Again, I'm Ellen
Speaker 3 (51:35):
Hisslap and I'm Steph Rotts and enjoy the NFL Final
this weekend and what pore we begin on Tuesday have
(53:00):
to be to a drink
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.