#017: Greg Neal

Episode Transcript
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Announcer (00:00):
You're listening to The Groove with Devin Pense.

Devin Pense (00:15):
What's up everybody?
Welcome back to another episodeof the Groove Podcast, where we
share people's stories from allwalks of life who've experienced
loss challenges in theirpersonal and professional
careers, and have overcome themall to find what I call the
groove.
I'm Devin Pence.
I'm a director, executiveproducer, and for fun, a street

(00:36):
photographer and the host of theGroove, I'm usually hanging out
on Instagram at Devin Pence, andyou can check out some of my
video work@devinpence.com.
My guest today is Greg Neal, acreative and marketing leader
with over 30 years of experiencein crafting award-winning
marketing campaigns and brandstrategies for cable and

(00:57):
broadcast television.
Greg has helped launch over ninetelevision networks, including
own the Oprah Winfrey Network,hgtv, and the PAC 12 networks,
among others.
He was also awarded broadcastingand Cable's brand Builder of the
Year award for his creativeleadership for Food Networks
rebrand.
And he's received over 75creative awards throughout his

(01:19):
career, including numerouspromax, BDA, Telly New York
Festival, and Addies as acredited writer or creative
director.
Greg is currently based inDallas, Texas, where he leads
the production team for one ofOmnicoms agencies, the marketing
arm, or tma, working withclients such as State Farm, Pero

(01:40):
Ricard Advanced Auto, and FritoLay.
In addition to his corporatetelevision career, he has
started two successfulbusinesses, core running
company, a retail runningspecialty store located outside
of Austin, Texas in gray scale,creative and entertainment and
creative agency in Culver City,California.
Today I'm gonna be talking toGreg about some of his

(02:02):
experiences and launchinglifestyle driven brands and his
insights into the world ofcreative and marketing
leadership in the entertainmentindustry.
So, without further ado, let'sget into the episode.
Greg Neal, welcome to the GroovePodcast.

Greg Neal (02:19):
Uh, Devin, thanks for having me.
I'm excited to be here.

I just wanna really kind of jump right into it.
One thing that that excites meabout this is this year I'm
really starting to focus a lotmore on, uh, creativity in
general and how I think thateverybody, you know, has some
creativity built into them.
So, and you're one of the mostcreative people I know, and so
I'm happy to have you heretoday.

Greg Neal (02:45):
Well, thanks for, uh, thanks for saying that.
I hope I live up to it andtelling you a little bit about
my creative process.
Of course, uh, as always.
Yeah, but you're pretty creativetoo, so.

Well, let's just jump into it then.
Um, real quick, you know, randown your resume.
Very impressive.
Tell us what you're up to now,what you're doing and, um, and
we'll just start there.

Greg Neal (03:09):
Yeah, I mean, well, as you explained, I spent the
majority of my career increative positions in
entertainment and media,television networks.
But, uh, I'm doing somethingthat's a little bit different
now.
It's, it's kind of in the samerealm, but I work for an
advertising agency called TheMarketing Arm.
We call it tma.
It's owned by Omnicom, which islike a big advertising, uh,

(03:33):
company that owns lots ofagencies and we're one of their
agencies.
And I oversee the production,which is the making of the ads
that we do.
So it could be a TV commercial,it could be a print ad, it could
be some photography, somepackaging.
Um, so we do a lot of differentthings and that's what I'm

(03:54):
focusing on right now.
So it's a little, it's a littlebit different.
I mean, it does touch on some ofthe same stuff, but it's a
pretty cool experience cuz wework with really, really big,
you know, fortune 500 companiesand big brands and help execute,
uh, you know, what they wanna dofrom a marketing and advertising
perspective.

Yeah.
So it sounds like you really,uh, kind of get your hands in,
in a lot of different aspectsof, of the creative process.

Greg Neal (04:22):
I mean, I do, and you know, maybe we'll talk about
this a little bit, uh, upcomingis Yeah, it I do, but it's a
little different.
I mean, at an advertisingagency, the, the, the positions
in the work is a little bit morein silos.
So there's kind of a team thathands one thing off to you and
hands another thing.

(04:42):
Whereas in my past positions,um, I've been involved in the,
the creating and the making ofit.
Right now, I'd say it, it'screative, but in a different
way.
It's only on the making side,it's not necessarily on the
conceptual side.
So me and and my team, we haveto figure out a creative
solution to kind of execute anidea that's been given to us.

(05:05):
So we're not always involved inthe idea generation, which is
what I really enjoy.
Um, it's not to say I don'tenjoy, uh, my role at tma, I do,
it's just very, very differentfrom the role I had in the past.
But yeah, I mean there'sabsolutely creativity, um,
involved in it.
It's just cr applying thecreative process kind of in a
slightly different way.

There's a great chance that the majority of the
people listening have seentelevision commercials that you
and your team at TMA, themarketing arm has had something
to do with.
Can you name off a couple ofyour uh, big clients or is that,
uh, proprietary kind ofinformation?

Greg Neal (05:47):
No.
no, it's not at all.
Um, yeah, I think, I mean, Ithink so.
I mean, probably the one thatpeople right now would know the
most are the Jake from StateFarm commercials.
So we do all of those,you probably see'em a lot.
Maybe you see'em too much.
I feel like maybe cuz we work on'em, like I feel like I see it
every commercial break.

(06:09):
Um, but that's kind of our big,um, our big client right now.
We also do, um, you know, atleast broadcast work for
Advanced Auto Parts and diehard,so we did a really cool
commercial last year with BruceWillis kind of reviving the
diehard role for diehardbatteries, which was pretty
cool.

(06:30):
Um, we do some work for PapaMurphy's, which is a pizza chain
, uh, Morgan Stanley, uh, FritoLay, like the various divisions
of Frito Lay.

Speaker 3 (06:38):
So yeah, so I mean it's pretty, I mean it's pretty
high profile stuff and um, a lotof people do get to see our
work, which is pretty rewardingand especially when it's, you
know, a part of a successfulcampaign to help our clients'
business or help theirawareness, which is really, you
know, the most important thingis cuz we wanna try to strike a
chord like in something that'sculturally relevant that people

(07:00):
talk about.
Saturday Night Live just did aspoof on Jake from State Farm,
uh, a couple of weeks ago, whichis pretty cool.
Oh yeah, I saw that.
And you know, they're kind ofspoof, they're kind of spoofing
some of the commercials that wedid, which is, you know, which
we have a, it's not solelybecause of us, but we do have a,
a small part in kind of buildingthat cultural relevance.
And of course, state Farm isgreat about, um, they have a

(07:22):
great media plan, so you, youreally do see their, their their
work all over the place.
So

That's pretty cool.
Yeah.
And by the time, uh, SaturdayNight Live is, is kind of
spoofing you, making fun of you,you know, that, that it's, uh,
culturally relevant to something,

Greg Neal (07:37):
You know, good or bad.
Yes,

.
Yeah.
And, and, and just to say, youknow, if, if, I don't think, I
don't know if it's stillrunning, but the, you're talking
about different departments andworking with different
departments and the ex thecreativity, the ideation, uh,
the pitching, uh, and then, youknow, everything in between and
then the execution.
Uh, i, I just, the, the die hardwith Bruce Willis was just, just

(08:03):
in my my opinion, it was justbrilliant.
I just thought that was, uh, sogreat and that that won, that
won quite a few awards.
Did it, did it not?

Greg Neal (08:12):
Yeah, I got, so I got a lot of recognition and of
course, you know, we had such agreat team working on it.
Uh, you know, we have a great,uh, head of, you know, chief
Creative Officer Harris and, uh,John Suits, the director of that
is, uh, uh, someone who actuallyused to work at our company and
he's gone on to, you know, justdirect some great stuff.
And, uh, Matt Williams is wasthe producer on that who wor who

(08:34):
works on my team and just areally great team and, um, that
really came together.
And, you know, we had everythingfrom explosives to like,
you know, massive car crashes,which is, which is kind of
funny.
I mean, you, you are asking me,you know, you're referencing my,
uh, what I call my former life.
Uh, you don't have a lot of thatin lifestyle TV networks where I
worked, I mean, mean when I wasworking at Food Network or

(08:56):
Oprah, there were no carcrashes, and Explosions.
Well,

Not that we showed anyone Recording.
There were some in the parkinglot, but, and by the way, now
that we've mentioned Harris'sname, I'm probably gonna get a
letter.
He's probably gonna want somekind of royalty or something,
but, uh, that's, that's a storyfor another time.
Yes.
Shout out to Harris Wilkinson.
Uh, great guy.
Um, so in, in that same kind ofvein, uh, knowing that

(09:23):
creativity is so subjective andit's so, um, a lot of times
difficult to translate intoquote unquote success, if you
will, where everybody's happyabout it.
And I guess at the end,ultimately, you know, the client
has to be happy.
Um, can you talk about some ofthe challenges where, you know,

(09:44):
there's a need, we need acommercial, we need this, and
then give us some ideas andthen, you know, having to walk
all the way that, all the waythrough execution.
I mean, you don't have to get sofar in the weeds, but just in
general.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
Well, I think it starts with you have to have a
good strategy.
Um, you know, in the TV worldit's a research department.
In the advertising world, it'scalled strategy that creates a
brief for you.
And, um, you have to know whoyour audience is, you know, so
the audience at Food Network,you know, might be very
different than the audience forespn.
So what works for ESPN may notwork for Food Network.

(10:22):
And I, and I remember when I wasin my role at Food Network, I
was the head of creative thereand, you know, somebody would
come in and part of my job was,you know, approving the creative
and looking at scripts andthings like that.
And someone would come in with areally funny spot, and I I I
would say now we, we have torework it and they'd be, what do
you mean that's really funny?

Greg Neal (10:40):
And I, I said, yeah, it's, it's funny, but like you
have to kind of add the phrase,is it funny for Food Network?
Mm-hmm.
Like, is it our type of humor?
And it's not.
And so I think, you know, whenin my current role when clients
come to us, you know, we haveto, we have to target, you know,
who they are talking to for itand make it relevant with that
particular audience.

(11:00):
And that helps get you halfwayup the mountain at least,
because, you know, you kind ofknow then how to dive into kind
of the creative process thatmight, um, appeal to that
particular, you know, group.
And, you know, you're absolutelyright.
It's subjective, it's, it's, youknow, uh, I've said this so many
times, like to be a greatcreative part of it's just

(11:22):
having good taste.
Like, you know, it's just kindof understanding what's cool.
And some, some people do andsome people don't.
Everything from fashion to musicto, you know, you just have to
have like, you have tounderstand like what looks good
and what goes together.
And, you know, some peopleyou're not going to, you know,

(11:43):
and I know you know this too,you're not gonna please
everybody with the work that youdo.
I mean, there will be people whosay Avatar is, you know, an
incredible graph, you know,incredible movie with great
graphics, and there'll be otherpeople that will pick at it and
be like, ah, it's not for me.
You know, it doesn't mean it'snot a great movie and an
effective movie and a successfulmovie.

(12:05):
Um, and it's kind of the samewith with, with what we do.
Every TV show is not a hit.
Every bit of branding that youdo is not gonna be a hit.
But if you can resonate with,with who you're going after and
get success with them, I thinkthat's, that's the key.
And in order to do that, youjust have to have a good, I
think it's important just tohave a good knowledge base, like

(12:25):
of what people like in general,you know?
Right.
And sometimes it takes research,but the more you're kind of
aware and observant of like whatpeople like, um, it makes it a
lot easier.

Devin (12:37):
Yeah.
And especially I think whenyou're working with very
established brands, um, stateFarm, you know, just comes to
mind, uh, since you mentioned itearlier and big brands like that
are so well established.
I mean, you think, and I couldname off Burger King McDonald's,
and you can hear their jingles,you know, I can remember jingles

(12:57):
back from the seventies and, andthose kinds of things that are
so well branded.
But I think, uh, to your point,I think you still have to have
that Don Draper kind of,uh, magic sauce to be able to
still bring them something new,something, uh, refreshing that
still fits in their establishedbrand, which is probably very

(13:19):
different than developingsomething for a, a brand new
brand where you kind of havewide open spaces.
For example, I guess I coulduse, there is, you know, you and
I were at the Oprah Winfreynetwork together and you were,
you know, heavily involved in,in that rebrand or branding.
And when you're brandingsomething from just, from

(13:41):
nothing, it's much morechallenging, wouldn't you say?

Greg Neal (13:46):
Yeah, I mean, it is, and, and even with Oprah, we had
Oprah, the person, which gave usa reference point.
So Oprah stood for something.
And, um, but it is challengingbecause you don't have, you're
not building off anythingexisting, you know, unless
you're completely changing theevolution of your company and

(14:08):
you really want to just changeeverything about it, most of the
time you're building offsomething that's been done
before.
And in the case of the OprahWinfrey network, or even going
back, I launched a network forScripps, which at the time owned
Food Network and HGTV called,called Fine Living and fine
Living didn't mean anything toanyone.
So we really had to create the,not just the look and the feel,

(14:32):
but kind of like the, themanifesto for like, what this
brand was.
And, um, it's, for me, it wasmore fun.
I, I liked starting stuff fromscratch because, um, it's kind
of, I like to paint, so, youknow, it's kind of like taking a
blank canvas and just creatingsomething mm-hmm.
and there's,there's a lot of pride when you
can, when you can do iteffectively.

Yeah.
And I'm, I'm, I'm getting alittle bit ahead of myself, so,
and I want, cuz I, I want tojump into, uh, sort of the, the
science behind that and, andsome of the, uh, sciences, like,
I'm, I'm not a scientist,but, it's just a trendy
thing to say, right?
The process.
The process, yeah.
I want to get into that, butlet's, let's go back a little

(15:14):
bit.
So let's talk about when did yourealize, uh, you were, you
enjoyed creativity or, or was itsomething that you discovered
later in life?
Um, tell us a little bit aboutyour, your backstory there.

Greg Neal (15:30):
Well, I think, you know, I think that I was always
kind of creatively inclined.
Both, both my parents were, werepretty creative.
Uh, my father especially, he wasa, um, he was a really talented
artist and drew and painted allthe time and was, uh, was very
good at it.
But my mother also was, sheliked to draw and, and, uh, she

(15:53):
had a really good sense of humorand kind of approached things,
uh, creatively.
So I was kind of exposed to, um,I would say like a, a welcoming
of the kind of creativity in myhouse.
We had a lot of art books in ourhouse.
I didn't grow, I didn't grow upvery, um, my family was not
wealthy.
I mean, we were very middleclass and, and, uh, we lived in

(16:15):
a really small house, but we didhave a lot of books and, and,
uh, had a lot of encyclopediasand art books and things like
that.
And so even when I was reallyyoung, I would, I would, you
know, look at those things.
And I drew a lot when I waslittle, so I was, um, I just
liked to draw.
It was something that I alwaysenjoyed doing.
And so by the time I got intograde school, you know, I was, I

(16:36):
was one of the few kids probablythat was, you know, would win
like the art competitions ingrade school and got chosen to,
you know, to draw little postersfor different things that we
did.
So I kind of gravitated towardsdoing that.
Um, and it never really wentaway from me to be honest.
I mean, I, I just kind ofembraced, uh, kind of being

(17:01):
creative and I got into highschool and of course like any
kind of funky creative kid youget into, you know, new wave or
punk rock music andskateboarding and all that kind
of stuff.
And so I kind of, you know, fellin with that crowd.
I mean, I did do some sports inhigh school, but I, uh, you
know, I, that was kind of thecrowd that I hung out in.
And so I was kind of around it alot.

(17:22):
Um, I didn't know that thatwould be my career, to be
honest.
I probably wasn't even thinkingabout that at the time.
It's just, uh, I just enjoyed,um, I just enjoyed creativity,
art, drawing, music,skateboarding, that kind of
stuff.

Yeah.
And something else I'm, um,always curious about is the
whole nature versus nurturephilosophy.
Yeah.
Did your, did when you were athome, did, did your dad or or
mom sort of sit you, you know,Hey Greg, let me, let me show
you how to, you know, properlydraw this or let me show you
this, or you should be, youknow, be a painter or did it

(17:59):
just ha sort of happenorganically just from osmosis?
It just happened organically.
No, they, they actually neverdid any of that stuff.
Um, I was around it, um, but um,it was never, you know,
partially probably cuz myparents weren't the those type
of people.
But, um, uh, but no, I think it,i, I do think that, so a lot of

(18:23):
this is na like with people ingeneral is nature.
I think you are born, um, withinclinations towards certain
things.
Uh, I think some people are morenaturally gifted towards
artistic endeavors and I thinksome people are more naturally
gifted, uh, towards playingmusic or singing or it might be,
uh, the way the brain worksscientifically.

(18:43):
Like, you know, I've knownpeople who, when they're very
young, they're just very good atmath, they're mathematically
inclined, yet other people candraw very well when they're
seven or eight years old.
So, um, it could, it, you know,it could have just been the way
that I, you know, I don't know.
I think it, it could have justbeen a little bit, I was born

(19:05):
with it and then as I starteddoing it more, I just started
enjoying it more.
So I just kept up with it kindof on my own.

Devin (19:13):
Talk about your, your, when you got into biking and
skateboarding and

Speaker 3 (19:19):
Yeah, I mean that, that's probably what ultimately
led me into my career.
I mean, I, of course, I didn'tknow it at the time, but, you
know, I was a, I was a bigskateboarder and, um, obviously
that culture in general, atleast at this time in the late
1980s, it was very driven bykind of re you know, rebellious,

(19:41):
um, stereotype.
And, you know, you would draw onthe top of your skateboard and
you would, you know, I had vansthat you would paint and
different colors and things likethat is very much part of the
kind of the skate culture and ofcourse the music around it.
And when I went off to college,I, um, I still skateboarded, but
I got, I started getting intobiking, freestyle biking, which,

(20:02):
which was starting to get big atthis time.
This was of course before the XGames and all that kind of
stuff.

Devin (20:08):
And, uh, I ended up meeting somebody that worked at
a bike shop.
Um, and through working withthem, I started making bike
videos because this is rightwhen the contests were starting
to get really popular with, youknow, guys like Matt Hoffman
that went on to become veryfamous and all these big X game
athletes.

(20:29):
And, uh, we would go to contestsand videotape these guys riding
on these ramps.
You know, at that time they weredoing, you know, five 40 s and
360 s and stuff all off this.
And, and I learned how to editby going to the local, this was
in Austin to the localcommunity.
It was called a ctv, AustinCommunity Television.

(20:51):
And I just started editing bikevideos together and then we
would sell them through the bikeshop.
And that's actually how I paidfor the last two years of my
college probably.
Um,

That's interesting.

Greg Neal (21:05):
And that kind of made me, yeah, it just made me
realize like, oh, this is cool.
Maybe I can do this.
You know, I thought I was gonnamaybe go to law school.
I was take majoring ingovernment and I was like, that
isn't really me.
Like I don't, you know, Ithought I needed to get like a
proper job.
And, uh, that's when I kind of,it opened my eyes that there's a
career path potentially doingthis.

Were you trained in , I mean, who, who taught you?
Like did somebody just say, Hey,here's a camera, uh, go, you
know, and, and hit this redbutton.
Did you have a mentor?
Did somebody show you how to runcamera and what to do?
Or is that, did that just kindof come natural as well?

Speaker 3 (21:44):
Well, I've had a lot of mentors in life, but they
came much later.
I mean, when the, on the camera?
Yeah.
No, I just, I just read themanual.
I didn't know how to do it.
I mean, I did, I did likephotography.
I had a 35 millimeter cameraand, you know, I wasn't like, I
would never have called myself aphotographer, but I knew how to
use a camera and, you know, setthe F stop and the aperture and

(22:05):
stuff like that.
But these s v svhs camerasdidn't even have that kind of
stuff.
I mean, at, at that point theywere pretty much point and, uh,
uh, point and record.
You could change the lenses.
I think we got a fisheye lensthat I would pop on every once
in a while if I wanted to getlike a wider angle.
I know

,

Greg Neal (22:22):
But now I just, I just taught myself, I taught
myself how to edit.
I think.
I think in order to, if Iremember correctly, I think in
order to edit at this local TVstation, you had to get a little
certification and you had to goto like a two hour tutorial
class where, where the guy, youknow, this was linear editing,
so it wasn't even, it was beforeyou could edit on a computer,

It's back when you could really break stuff,
you know?,

Greg Neal (22:47):
Oh yeah, you can break a lot of stuff.
That's probably why they madeyou take the class.
And so, um, yeah, so I justtaught myself and, and did it.
And it was, it was a lot of fun.
And, and that led me to, when Igraduated from college, I ended
up applying for a job at a localTV station, you know, because I
didn't quite know, um, I didn'tquite know like, like if, you

(23:11):
know, I didn't know anythingabout like, production companies
or editorial houses or anythinglike that.
I just kind of like thought, oh,well a TV station probably.
Cuz I was working at the localcommunity station, but it
wasn't, no one got paid there.
Um, so I ended up applying for ajob at the CBS affiliate and
Austin and I got an overnightjob there, uh, running, being a

(23:32):
tape operator, which basicallymeans you're just recording news
feeds that come in overnight.
But it was my foot in the door.
And that's kind of, that waslike my first step into starting
a career.

As you're getting up into the college years, I
know a lot of people, uh, don'tquite know what direction
they're going to end up in.
And sometimes you, you discoverthat just along the path, along
the journey and, and whateverfeels right and that, that
sounds like what happened to youas you got into your foot into
the door at the TV station.

(24:05):
How long were you a tape op andat what point did you feel like,
you know what, I I like this, Ithink I can, you know, oh, I see
what this person's doing, orthis person's over here pushing
a bunch of buttons.
Or at what point did you kind ofstart thinking, Hey, I might
could do this.
I can, I might could, you know,take a go at this.

Greg Neal (24:24):
Yeah, I mean, uh, I mean, you're right.
I mean, when I, and this may betrue for a lot of people, I I
think it's right when whenyou're 18 to 22 you're still
trying to discover.
A lot of kids are still tryingto discover what they want to
do.
I think some may know if you'regoing to go to law school or
medical school or you know, x,y, z you may have a vision, but
I think a lot of kids don't.

(24:46):
And I knew that I was creative,which is what I enjoyed doing,
but I also knew, I wasn't surehow I was gonna make money and I
was very driven to like, get ajob that paid money, which is
why for a while I was thinkinglaw school like, oh, I can, you
know, I can get in and makemoney.
And when this TV thing happenedI kind of realized like, oh,

(25:07):
there, there are a lot of jobsin, in this industry.
And so when, uh, I, I, Iremember one day this was right
bef it was right before Istarted this job.
I had just gotten out of theUniversity of Texas where I went
to school and there was a guypassing out books like on the
sidewalk, like, to, it was, Idon't know if it was after he

(25:28):
was passing'em to students.
I, I can't remember what thecontext was.
I think we were exiting a classor something.
And it was a book called RogersRules for Success.
And I looked it up, it's not inprint, you can still get it
used, but it's not really inprint anymore.
But it was written by a guy whowas the co-founder of Rogers and
Cowan Cohen, which is a, whichwas a big Hollywood PR agency.

(25:53):
And it was like one of theseearly kind of, maybe not early,
but it was, it was, it was abook that was all about like how
to be, you know, successful inlife, you know, treat people
with respect and, you know, andit really inspired me.
I had not, at that time, I hadnever read a book like that.
I didn't even know what any ofthese, um, you know, these Tony

(26:13):
Robbins and all these kind ofthings that got real popular
later.
I, I didn't know.
And so I read this book and itreally had a profound impact on
me because it kind of taught meto focus on being ambitious and
driven and like how to beprofessional in settings.
Things that I never had like anyguidance on.

(26:33):
You know, again, I was like askateboarder came from a middle
class family, had nobody thatwas like a white collar
executive in my family.
So this book kind of of gave melike, the drive to get started.
And so when I went to work atthis overnight agency, like I
dressed really good.
I didn't wear like a t-shirt andjeans.

(26:53):
I wore like a button up shirtand I tucked it in and I was
shaking everybody's hand and Iwas giving them my name.
I had these little cards printedwith my name on it.
This was before email, but ithad my name and phone number.
And uh, and I just networked,and it sounds silly at a little
TV station, but one of the guysthat I met was the guy who was
the promotions director at theTV station.

(27:14):
And at this time I didn't evenknow what promotions were, but
basically in the TV worldpromotions or sometimes it's
called creative services, this,these are the departments that
make the commercials thatpromote the newscast or promote
TV shows on there.
And so his team is in therewriting and producing these
creative little 32nd spots thatpromote the TV newscast.

(27:36):
And he explained to me what theydid.
And uh, um, although he didn'thave an opening, he, he knew
someone at another small town inTexas even smaller TV station in
Tyler, Texas.
And he said they're looking fora creative services writer,
producer, and you know, it's anentry l evel job, but I think

(27:57):
you'd be great for it.
And so I ended up going there.
So I was only a t ape operatorfor about six months.
U m, and that was kind of likemy drive that got me into my
thing where I was actuallystarting to create creative
content for the first time.
I was like, you know, 23 yearsold and shooting, you know,
local TV commercials.
And to me I thought I had, youknow, I thought I had made it

(28:17):
.

Well, you, yeah, yeah.
Which I, I will, I want tointerject here, something that I
think is super important thatyou touched on is, you know, we,
we learn sort of differentthings as we kind of, you know,
make our way through life, butthere's certain components that
need to come together in orderto, to be successful, to

(28:42):
understand how to act.
And it sounds like you were veryfortunate to be out on that
sidewalk that day because it's,it, it's books like that or, or
just things like that that sortof filled in the gaps that you
needed to be able to put, youknow, and you were smart enough
to be able to put those, thosekinds of things together.

(29:02):
And I think that's an importantpoint for anybody that's trying
to, uh, be successful, start acompany or learn something new
to you.
It takes multiple components tobe successful at something.

Greg Neal (29:17):
It takes multiple components and it takes multiple
components of recognizing whatthose components are.
So in my case, it was gettingthat book and actually reading
it.
And again, I may, maybe I'mnaive, I had never read anything
like that.
I had never read an advice bookon career.

(29:39):
Like I didn't even know whatthey were.
Now.
There could have been anotherkid just behind me that got it,
that was raised in an ubersuccessful family and had been
exposed to that type ofinformation all his life.
And he may have flipped througha few pages and said, this is a
joke and tossed it in the trashcan.
Right?
So I think your, the cumulationof your experiences is just

(30:02):
recognizing what is gonna changeyour path.
Now if that person wouldn't havebeen there handing out those
books, there could have beensomething else that could have,
you know, prompted me to do, um,you know, to, to go the way that
I go.
But, but looking back at my agenow, it, it makes me appreciate
more of just living in themoment and recognizing there

(30:26):
could have been a million otheropportunities that like flashed
in front of my face that Ididn't pursue or recognize.
But for some reason, the book Idid recognize, you know, it was
just like one of those thingsthat like, I remember today I
remember what the cover of it.
I wish I still had it.
I, uh, but I still remember whatthe cover of the book looked
like.
Now, if I read it today, I mightkind of chuckle at it.

(30:46):
I'm not sure that it's, youknow, people, people might look
it up and try to get it andthey'll be like, this book
isn't, but at the time it, itmade a big impact on me and that
led me to kind of seek moreknowledge about like, working
with people, influencing peoplepaths to success, you know,
whatever success might mean.

(31:07):
And so

Moving, kind of moving forward down the
timeline, when did you make theleap sort of out of local TV
into that cable world or thatnext step

Greg Neal (31:17):
To be exact In time?
It was 1994.
It was the year 1994.
But remember in the earlynineties there, there wasn't a
lot of cable networks at thattime.
There was CNN and ESPN and therewere a few that were mtv, but
you know, most of the, most ofthe television world was the big
broadcast networks.
And you know, I thoughtultimately maybe, maybe if I

(31:40):
worked hard, I could try to likework my way up to like a
broadcast network.
And when you're, at the timewhen you're in local tv, market
size makes a difference.
So back then it was being in thetop 20 markets was a big deal.
And those are the big cities.
And then of course, every, everymedium, even small markets have
TV stations.
So, you know, mid-size townslike Columbus, Ohio, and you

(32:05):
know, the, they're gonna have aTV station, but it's not gonna
be top 20.
The top twenties were, you know,obviously New York and LA and,
uh, Houston and these big citiesand that's what you're shooting
for.
So I I, I was in Tyler in thesmall town, ended up back in
Austin, which at the time waslike market number 55.

(32:25):
So it was medium.
And I applied for a job inPhoenix, which was a top 20
market.
And so, and I ended up gettingthe job and uh, I was so
excited.
I'm like, yeah, I made it to atop 20 market.
Sounds so funny to say it now.
And to make a long story short,my boss at In Phoenix, who was a
guy I really liked, he took meto lunch one day and said, uh,

(32:46):
hey.
And I really liked him.
I'd only been there about sixmonths, seven months.
And he, he, he said, Hey, I gota job.
I'm leaving the station.
Um, and at my heart just sankcuz he was a super creative guy.
Um, he said, but I want you tocome with me and my, you know, I
kind of, my eyebrows arch, like,what's he talking about?
He said, I've been asked tostart the creative department at

(33:10):
a new cable network called Homeand Garden Television, and it's
gonna be all about homedecorating shows and gardening
shows.
And I was, first question waslike, that seems kind of weird.
And my second question is, whereis it?
And he goes, it's in Knoxville,Tennessee.
And he's like, but you can moveout there with me if you want.
And, uh, so I had never been toTennessee.

(33:32):
I was like, oh man, I don'tknow, but I just kind of saw the
writing on the wall in turn.
No, of course, at that time Ihad no idea how big HGTV would
become.
And it took a long time beforeHGTV became the first five
years, no one had even heard ofit.
It wasn't until about 2000 or2001 it really started getting
on the pop culture radar.

(33:52):
Um, but, uh, I just kind of sawthe writing on the wall of how
the business was trending.
And I, you know, I saw thepopularity of the cable networks
at the time getting big, howcable was rolling out, you know,
in every home across America.
And I thought, you know, I'mgonna take a chance and do this.
And, uh, and that got me in,that got my foot in the door in,

(34:12):
in the cable industry.
And that's what I, I stayed inthat for the next 15 years or
more, almost 20 years afterthat.
So

Now, weren't you, uh, weren't you like, um,
employee number 12, 11 or 12?

Greg Neal (34:25):
I think I was in the top 20.
I think I was like 18 or 19 orsomething like that.
Yeah.
Um, I went there before it wason the air.
Um, me, there's only three of usin the creative department at
the time.
Me, I was a producer, there wasanother producer, and then Dusty
who was the, the, the boss whobrought me out.
And we were creating all of theediting, all of the promos that

(34:45):
would be on HGTV and, you know,creating all the on-air look and
stuff.
And they hadn't even built thebuilding that we were gonna be
in yet.
We were working in a kind of a,kind of a warehouse type
building.
And if you see that facilitynow, I mean, it's just, you know
, it's insane.
It's a beautiful, you knowmm-hmm.
massive network.
But it was super cool, man.
We were, we were there early onand it was, um, very creative,

(35:07):
very fun, great people.

It's interesting, I mean, and I mean obviously now
to look back just the entirething of it, and I mean, how was
that, to look back and to thinkyou were like early days?
Like I know in that, in that

Greg Neal (35:24):
Space it's pretty cool.
It's pretty cool.
I mean, of, of, again, you know,at that time we had no clue it
would become what it became.
And of course back then that thecontent wasn't quite as good.
I mean, some of the TV showswere kind of laughable if you
were to look at'em now.
It, it also taught me anotherthing, like a little bit about

(35:47):
decision making when I was inKnoxville and, you know, helping
HGTV launch and again, madegreat friendships there.
I mean, still friends with someof the people that I, that I
met, you know, back in 1994, um,I, I probably was a little bit
too ambitious, quite frankly,instead of enjoying and reaping

(36:09):
kind of what we were trying tobuild there, because it was in
Knoxville, I had my eyes set ongetting to Los Angeles.
And so I did everything I couldafter I built some good spots on
my reel to try to get out andget to LA and work somewhere
else, like someplace bigger, youknow, in my mind.
And, and I ended up doing that.

(36:29):
I did end up leaving, um, I lefton good terms.
Obviously I rejoined the companylater, but, um, but I left, you
know, and I left for la and whenI got to la the funny thing is,
HGTV wasn't available in LosAngeles yet.
I know it sounds weird, but backthen you had to, you had to grow
a cable network in homes becauseyou'd go and sell the individual

(36:51):
cable systems.
So, you know, whatever was in LAat the time, Comcast, California
or whatever, if we hadn't done adeal with them, they weren't
carrying the network yet.
Now it's a fully distributednetwork, so it's on every, you
know, system in America,everywhere.
But when I moved out there andstarted working for a los, you
know, an LA based kind of, uh,creative agency, they were like,

(37:13):
where did you come from?
What's hgtv?
They didn't even know.
And it wasn't until a coupleyears later, until they even got
HGTV and understood where I wasworking.
So it didn't even, it had nocache whatsoever.
Now when I tell people, they'relike, oh my God, that's so cool.
But they did not say that backthen.

Yeah.
I mean, and I think it's, uh, apoint of note there, and I've
always found this interestingand, and there's been times
where, um, and I'd like to hearyour opinion on this as, as your
career began to, to blossom,I've often thought there are,
you know, two types of people.
There are the types of peoplethat, that, that can sit back

(37:51):
sort of and, and, and stay atone place, whether they enjoy it
or not, maybe they do enjoy it,maybe they value a, a perceived
security aspect of it.
And then there are those who aremore sort of startup driven or
whatever.
But I, I personally think justindividually, at least this,

(38:13):
this is how it's been for me inmy career.
I've always kind of known whenmy time was up somewhere and
I've always felt like, I don'tknow it, you know, it's like
I've hit a ceiling, I've hit aceiling, and, and, and you made
a great point earlier, may, youknow, you made the comment about
maybe I was too ambitious.
I can guarantee you, you know,speaking for myself as I look

(38:36):
back on my career, there's nodoubt I made multiple mistakes
in, in, at least, at least, Iguess it's hard to know thinking
now, how do, how do you know?

Greg Neal (38:45):
Yeah.
It's, it's hard to know.
And there, there's a, you know,there's a saying like winners,
you know, winners never quit andquitters never win, which I, I
don't agree with that saying atall.
I, I, I mean, I think winnersquit a lot.
That's how they win.
They know when to like stop andmove on to the next thing.
And it's funny, I think there'sobviously something with

(39:08):
perseverance and sticking withthings, but success doesn't, to
me at least, doesn't lie, lie insticking to things.
It lies in like picking theright thing and sticking to it,
you know?
So I think in some cases, as youknow, Devin, and, and, and you
shared earlier, um, I've had aunique career.

(39:30):
I, I think it's unique in thesense that I have moved around a
lot.
I've, you know, we've, we livein our 13th house right now,
, you know, we've, thatwe've bought and sold, um, you
know, have helped start networksin New York, Los Angeles, San
Francisco, Nashville here.
Like big moves, big time moves.

(39:50):
And, and some of'em, I look backand they were the right move.
And some of them I thought theywere the right move, but they
maybe weren't.
And with hgtv, for instance,like I was really happy I got to
LA and that was an awesome timein my life, but that's one I
probably could have stuck withthere longer because it was the
right thing.
It was a really great companywith a really right, with the,

(40:12):
with the right mix.
And, you know, you can't be 100%accurate, but sometimes I think
your gut can tell you, like, youknow, when to quit and I use the
word quit, but when to make achange and when to like
persevere and stick withsomething.
And sometimes it's really hard,you know, sometimes it's really
hard to do.
But, um, you know, in hindsight,looking back, it, I ended up

(40:34):
going back to the company, uh,this time helping them launch a
new network called Find Living,but same ownership as hgtv and
still worked with a lot of thesame people.
And then that parlayed to theexperience at a network in
Nashville called Shop at Home,which is where you and I first
crossed paths, and then thatparlayed into an experience in
New York at Food Network, uh,again, all the same company.

(40:57):
So I worked for that company fora long time, and I did go back
to it, but, um, and in thosecases, the moving around, it was
picking the right thing.
It was knowing how to like,stick with the right thing and
then, you know, move on to the,to, to the next thing when you
can.
Yeah,

Yeah.
But let me, let me kind of,we're again, we're kind of
jumping around a little bit.
I wanna go back to creativityjust real quick.
And you know, in, in the worldyou and I have kind of lived in
and worked in, um, it'sprimarily been a, a create on
demand world.
Um, like you said earlier,you'll get a brief or you'll
some, you'll get an idea or Hey,we, we need to promote this

(41:34):
show, and there's nothing butthe show, or there's nothing but
the brief or the idea.
So it's like, like a magician,like create something out of
nothing and that's your job.
You come to work, there'snothing there.
And by the end of the day, andI'm exaggerating because it
takes more than one day usually,but by the end of the day or by

(41:55):
the end of the week, you have acompletely, uh, produced spot
that is ready to go out on air.
Can you talk about that a littlebit?
Has that worn you, that creativedemand, uh, create on demand?
Has that worn on you over theyears?

Greg Neal (42:09):
, I, I mean, that's exactly how it is.
And I, and I think that thereare probably other careers that
are like that too.
Probably if you, you know, writefor a newspaper, you gotta come
in with no article at thebeginning of the day, and by the
end of the day you have to writesomething or a composer that has
to create music for somethingand it doesn't know what they're

(42:31):
gonna do, and they have to do itby the end of the day.
Uh, for us, you know, a TVcommercial or an ad that has to
go out, it, it, it, we have alittle bit more time at an ad
agency, but when, as you know,at the, in the TV network world,
sometimes stuff you, you get theassignment in the morning and
it's gotta be on the air thatnight, you know, so you
literally no joke, you have aday to do it.

(42:53):
Um, you know, there's no doubtabout it that it's, it can wear
you down.
Um, it takes a lot of lifeenergy to kind of operate at the
optimum level and buzz you needto do in order to get stuff
done.
Because you know, it, talk aboutliving in the moment, you're

(43:13):
very much in the moment when youhave the rush of trying to get
something on the air, and it'sgotta be on the air that night,
and you dunno what you're gonnado.
So that morning you gotta findthe footage and you gotta write
the script and you know, it,there's a little bit of a high
that you get from it, to behonest.
Um, and I think you get betterat it the more you do it.

(43:34):
Like I'm, you know, I feel likeI'm a pretty quick thinker now.
Like, I can write scriptsreally, really fast if I need
to.

Speaker 3 (43:43):
Um, it's just because I've done it so much.
I've done hundreds if notthousands of them.
So, um, I don't really worryabout, like, not worry, I don't,
I don't really find it too hardto come up with ideas quickly,
but I do feel, I, I often wonderlike if there's a, if there's

(44:05):
like a lifespan on this type ofthing though, like, is there
gonna be a point where like, Ijust can't do it, I just
can't do it anymore.
The energy suck is so strongthat I'm just like, oh my God,
it's just a beat down.
Because I'm sure you've, Devinyou've been in these situations
where like you have a week whereyou, you know, you're making a
lot of changes or there's somerush orders and you gotta get

(44:26):
stuff out and you're, you'rephysically tired at the end of
the week.
Like your, your brain and yourbody has just been drained from
like, so much production, youknow?
Um, so I, I, you know, I I, Istill get a thrill from it, but,
um, I, I, I also think thatthat's probably why I've

(44:49):
switched jobs, like the changein pace and subject matter has
really helped keep itinteresting, you know?
Yeah.
And that's what's kind of coolabout an ad agency is it's not
all, it's not all one topic.
We're working on multipledifferent things, and that keeps
it, that keeps it interesting.

And, and I was gonna ask you, and you, you kind
of answered it, but even, evento take it maybe a little bit
further, do you think you canlose the ability to be creative?

Greg Neal (45:22):
I, I don't think so.
I really don't.
I I think if you've got it,you've got it.
I, I, I do.
I mean, your, your, yourcreativity may evolve over time
because I feel like I'm just ascreative now as I was when I
was, you know, 22 and, and superhungry and ambitious and, you
know, consuming every bit ofcreative how-to information that

(45:47):
I could.
Um, I, I, I feel now I'mprobably more selective over
what I want to spend my energyon, but for me, I still
immensely enjoy the creativeprocess.
And y you know, I, I think itwas kind of a blessing and a
curses probably part of thereason that I hit success, at

(46:08):
least from a kind of a title andwork status standpoint early, is
I put all of my creative energyinto doing creative on-air work
for TV networks.
And, you know, I, I went like athousand percent for a really
long time doing that.
And now I, and, and I didn'tpursue other outside creative

(46:35):
interests.
And now I feel like I balance mylife better.
I like to paint, I do a lot ofpaintings, you know, now, and
I've picked that back up again.
And I hadn't picked up apaintbrush in like 20 years,
man, or maybe even more.
And I used to do it all thetime.
I didn't, I, I started drawingagain.
I used to draw all the time whenI was younger.
And to me, that's, that's a morehealthy, that's a more healthy

(46:59):
way to, I think, keep thecreative like flame going.
And I, and I know that you dothe same, like you, you've,
you've picked up photographyagain, like a little bit more
prolific than you used to be,and you're doing this podcast
and other things that may be anoutlet for you that help balance

(47:20):
out the creative, you know,energy.
Mm-hmm.
in you

Mm-hmm.
.
Yeah.
I completely agree.
And I'm gonna bring mentalhealth into this sometimes.
I mean, for me personally, Ijust didn't know there was
anything else.
I didn't know I, I was going sohard, like you said.
And I think on one hand, I thinkyou have to go hard.
I think there's times where you,you have to grind it out and
you've, you've gotta go hard.

(47:45):
You've gotta prove yourself,you've gotta deliver and you've
gotta, and that takes, as yousaid, that takes, you know, it's
not like we're out diggingditches.
Uh, but man, it sure felt likeit sometimes, you know?

Speaker 3 (47:57):
Well it's, it's funny you talk about mental health
because I think that is, um,that's an important part of it
that I didn't pay a lot ofattention to earlier in my
career.
And because I defined myself somuch by being a creative, I
don't know, star is not theright word, but by being a

(48:19):
creative, like top gun at thecompany, um, I took it very
personally and kind of got veryoffended when I couldn't get
things the way that I wanted toget them, you know?
And that would get me to notlike a job, like, well, screw
this place I'm gonna leave ifthey're, you know, if I can't

(48:39):
get them to appreciate, I'mgonna go take my creative, you
know, energy somewhere else.
And part of that was because Iwasn't paying enough attention,
I think, to, to just kind ofbeing more open to different
viewpoints.

Greg Neal (48:55):
It wasn't, not to say I wasn't collaborative, but I
think if you're very, verycreative and you're very good
creatively, and I think I'm, I'mspeaking generally about
creatives, you know, you, youtake a lot of pride in what you
do and criticism.
It's, some people don't let thecriticism bounce off off them
very well.
You know, you're kinda like,well, do you know how much you

(49:19):
know, do you know how lucky youare to have me?
I just edited this thing and oneday, like, you know how hard
that is?
Like, you know, you, you just,it when you're good at creative,
like you're, you know, you're areally good photographer, you're
accomplished director andeditor.
You can do a lot of things andpeople don't understand.

(49:39):
Like, you make it look easy, butit's only easy because you've
spent years and years and yearsmaking it look easy.
It doesn't mean it is easy, youknow?
And you want people to respectthat, you know?
And, and the truth is peoplejust aren't, they're not gonna
get it.
You know?
And you gotta like learnmentally for your me, for your
own mental health sake, youknow, to not let that bother

(50:01):
you.
And I'm still working on that,to be honest with you.
I know you've worked with meover the years and there've been
some places where you've runacross people and it's just
infuriating the responses youget on some of the creative work
that you do.
And I've just learned, again,cuz you brought up mental
health, like to, this sounds,this sounds a little corny, but

(50:22):
like, I don't mean it literally,but like, kind of open, open my
heart in the sense of just,it's, you can't change it.
Like, you, you have to justlearn how to react to things
that come at you in life.
So if someone's gonna, you know,criticize you or say, why did
you do this?
Or, I don't think he's capableof doing that.
Like, you can't change the waythey react or what they say, but

(50:45):
you can change how you, how youprocess it.
And that's helped me a lotcreatively too because I don't
shut down.
Right.
You know, when someone kind of,you know, threatens you, I
guess.

Well, it is, it is very, very, very difficult and I
, and I too wish I would'velearned and known how to, um, as
you say, like if, if you, you,you spend all day or all week
editing something and somebodycomes up, you know that they're
not as, they're, they're not aneditor.
They're involved in the projectsomehow or whatever, but you

(51:19):
know, they, they, they feel likesometimes they've just have to
put their thumbprint on it or beinvolved in some way.
And, and I can't, you know, Iwish I would've known, you know?
Then that Yeah.
Those are their words, you know,and, and, and I, I wish I
would've known to just let theirwords kind of fall to the floor,
not, not that I didn't want totake responsibility.

(51:41):
Yeah.
And yeah, and that's, that'spart of, that's why they call it
editing, you know?
I mean, right.

Greg Neal (51:45):
And it, and it's okay.
It's okay that it's their words.
Yeah.
Because there may have beensomething you have said to
someone not even thinking twiceabout it that may have had that
effect on them.
And you might have beensurprised, like, oh my God, I
didn't even know that I upsetyou.

Devin (51:58):
I would've never done anything like that, Greg.
Never, never.

Greg Neal (52:02):
Um, but going back to the creative process and why,
why I wanted to bring that upkind of so, so forcefully is
that when, when you let thingslike that bother you, it, it
shuts you down creatively.
It's hard to function creativelyafter that.
Mm-hmm.
, you know, like,I'll, I'll give an example.
Like, um, and I'm, I'm, I'm kindof stealing this from like a

(52:26):
book that I had read a long timeago, but it, it's this idea of
like, you know, let's say you'rein a relationship and you know,
someone breaks up with you andyou're just you know, you go
into your apartment or whereverand you just can't function and
your friends want to go out, youdon't have any energy.
You just have zero energy.
You can't even, you can barelyget up.
And then let's say that sameperson calls back and says, you

(52:49):
know, I'm, I've made a mistake.
Like, I can't even believe howstupid will you take me back?
I want to get back together.
All of a sudden you have energy,you pop up, you're like, oh my
God, this is the best thing.
You clean your house, you shave,you get in the shower.
You, you want to go tell theworld?
And like, where did that energycome from?
Like, it, it, it, you went fromnothing.

(53:11):
And being down to like onesentence someone says to you, to
energizing you, it's the same inwork.
There have been days where Ihave been in my mind
disrespected or, you know, thecreative isn't good enough or
this or that, and I have let itput me in that apartment, you
know, laying down lights off,and then you want something to

(53:33):
kind of validate you again tolike bring you back up.
And the truth of the matter is,you should never get in that
place in the first place whensomeone says something, just let
it go through you.
You know?
And it's easier said than done,believe me.
I mean, but I've gotten a lotbetter at it.
And when I look back on my, mycareer, I don't, you know, it's
not that I regret any, any waythat I've acted towards someone,

(53:54):
but there are times when, like,if I knew now 10 or 15 years
ago, I probably would've hadless stress and anxiety and
things like that that, you know,that kind of probably affected,
that could had the, of theability to affect my performance
on a job.
So, um, I'm trying to get betterat that.

(54:15):
It's, it's, it's funny.
Like it, you know, after beingin this business 30 years, I'm,
I'm finally coming to someenlightenment on how to handle
some of this

I heard some, somebody say something that I
thought was pretty clever the other day, and they were saying,
anybody that's over the age of40 can write a memoir and they
can, i t can all have the sametitle, which is how did I end up
here?
.
And, a nd t hat's t rue.
And as we k ind o f wind up,I'll ask you that question, you
know, how, how do you f eel thatway?

(54:45):
How do you, how do you feel likeyou've ended up, you know, where
you're at a nd maybe some ofyour philosophies of how you've
got to this point in life?

Greg Neal (54:54):
Man, that's a big, uh, that's a big question.
I

Like to say the big ones for last.

Greg Neal (54:59):
.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Um, you know, it, it, it's funnylike going back to the, the
career thing, like, you know,working at the ad agency and
focusing more on production thancreative, I often joke with the
people that I work with, likethat my, that my career leading
up to here is my former lifebecause it was so different than

(55:20):
what I do right now in manyways.
You know?
And I was so much more, and it'snot to say that I'm not career
driven and, uh, obviously I'm ina kind of a, an important, uh,
role at the company and I dohave a lot of things that I've
gotta take care of, and I takeit very, very seriously.
But, um, you know, there was along, long time just like you

(55:41):
were explaining where I put mycareer, you know, very, it, you
know, I don't know if I wouldsay I put it first because,
because I do have a good familyand a good relationship and
never had any issues there.
But, um, you know, I didn'tcultivate friendships.
I didn't cultivate hobbies verywell.

(56:04):
Um, and I tried to, I, therewere, there were times during
that path where I tried to takelittle left turns.
Like when I was at Oprah, I kindof got burned out and left and
tried to go back to Austin toopen a running store, you know,
but then I kind of got suckedback into the TV network world
and then got back into thatmentality again.

(56:25):
And it wasn't quite clickingwith me.
And it wasn't until I movedhere.
Um, and really in the past fewyears that I feel much more at
peace with, you know, where I amright now in life and much more,
I don't know, much moreconfident about, you know,
everything that's going on.
Because my resume is my resume.

(56:46):
And when I look back, like I'veworked at cool places, I've
lived in a ton of great cities,I've had great positions, I've
overseen really cool funcampaigns and startups at
networks.
And so I look at it like, youknow, the next thing for me may
not be in this world, you know,advertising, production,

(57:09):
creative entertainment.
It might be something completelydifferent.
And I'm still kind of trying tofigure out what that is, but I'm
balancing things a lot betternow.
Like, by which I think people,everyone should do, you know,
balance it with hobbies mm-hmm.
and balance itwith, and, and you know that
there are study after studyafter study after study that
says when people go to theirdeathbed or when they pull

(57:32):
people on happiness, you know,it's, it's relationships, it's,
you know, in some cases it mightbe like health and things like
that.
Those are the things that riseto the top.
It's not job, it's not, it's not, uh, it's not always money and
things like that.
And so, uh, but I think we'rekind of trained early on to kind
of pursue those things.
And there's no doubt about it.

(57:52):
I mean, everybody wants to makemoney, and you wanna make enough
money to support your family andsupport yourself, but you
shouldn't, I don't think youshould do that at the expense
of, you know, sacrificing yourhappiness and your wellbeing.

So, and that's true.
And, and as we kind of wrap uphere, again, like, I often think
back on, you know, we've allseen the, the stick figure, uh,
character of the guy on the bikeof, you know, he's at point A
and then down at point B, havemy goals or success, and it's
just this nice straight line.

(58:27):
And then underneath, you seewhat it was really like, you've
fallen a pit, you know, youfallen the swamp, you have to
swing across a mountain.
And, and, and the path is, thepath is never like you think.
And I think I, I do thinkplanning things out, wishing
about things, making strategicdecisions, going for it,

(58:48):
pressing on, hoping you'll endup somewhere, but nothing's ever
like, you think it's going tobe.
And that's something I told, youknow, I tried to tell my kids
growing up because if you kindof live, you can kind of get in
your own head.
A lot of times I think andthink, okay, I'm gonna get this
job and it's, this is how it'sgonna be, right?
I'm gonna be successful.

(59:10):
I'm gonna be making all the, youknow, good money, I'm gonna this
.
And you get there and yourealize, wait a second, there's
two, 200 other people here andI've gotta work with 30 of them,
them.
And it's just all about balance.
And like you said, um, balanceand Well, and, that story right
there is, is a great kind ofexclamation point on what we've

(59:34):
been talking about is, is you'renot in control.

Devin (59:36):
That's right.

Greg Neal (59:37):
You know, and that's what causes people.
And whether you interpret thatspiritually through a religion
or just kind of through yourlife philosophy, it doesn't
matter that different people usethat type of, um, saying
depending on their beliefsystems.
But at the end of the day, youcan't control everything that

(59:58):
happens in your life.
And the more you try to controlit, that's when unhappiness
comes.
When you want things, somethingto go a certain way and it
doesn't turn out that way, andthen you ruminate over it, you
stress over it, you relive it,it brings you down.
Life happens the way that ithappens.
And, you know, we can't, we'redealt a certain deck of cards.

(01:00:18):
Some people are born intowealthy families, some people
are born dirt poor, some peopleare born with, you know, certain
things that may give themadvantages.
It just is what it is.
And you have to like make thebest of like the situation that
comes to you.
And again, it's not easier saidthan done, but the more I think
you can embrace that, the moreyou'll be accepting of all the

(01:00:42):
things that happen in life.
So,

Devin Pense (01:00:43):
Yeah.
With that, I think, um, that's agood wrap up.
That's a good, good button onthe end.
Um, speaking of, can you, whwhere can people find your art?
I've seen your art, I think it'ssuper cool.
Um, where, where are you at on,uh, social media and, and uh,
that kind of thing?
So

Greg Neal (01:01:01):
I have a, I have an Instagram page.
It's Greg underscore Neal.
And then I have a website justgreg neal.com.
And then I have some art onthere.
Um, I'm probably gonna a, I'lladd more art to it.
I want to build a, uh, an artonly, uh, website or maybe I'll
just convert the greg neal.comto it.
But, uh, easy enough to find methere.

(01:01:23):
If anyone wants to message me,that's fine.
And that's cool and, uh,

Awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
Easy enough to find.

Well man, I've really enjoyed this and I've
been looking forward to havingyou on the groove for a long
time.
And glad, uh, we finally wereable to, uh, carve out the time
to do it and really appreciateyour insights and everything
you've done over your career.
And, uh, just thanks for beingon the groove today.

Greg Neal (01:01:47):
Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
I really enjoyed talking to you.

I hope you enjoyed this episode and hearing from
Greg and was able to take awaysome good advice on how to push
through the daily challenges ofbeing a creative.
Be sure to head over to thegroove podcast.com to check out
the show notes for all the linksmentioned, and to see some of
the imagery we talked about inthis episode.
You can find me@devinpence.comand check out some of my

(01:02:14):
personal photography onInstagram at Devin Pence.
That's gonna wrap it up, up forthis episode.
Thanks for joining me and neverstop.
Never give up.
Always try one more time untilyou find your groove.

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