In this episode, we dive into the messy, meaningful space where true leadership lives—the gray area. Join us for a candid conversation with Kelly as she reflects on what it really means to lead with compassion without enabling, the importance of boundaries and early intervention, and why being an expert isn’t a prerequisite for great leadership.
We explore the misconceptions of perfection in leadership, the value of trusting your gut (spoiler: it’s not just a feeling—it’s a collection of lived experiences), and the often-overlooked truth that leadership requires training, not just tenure. Kelly shares how her background in social work shaped her approach to hard decisions, presence, and professional growth—and reminds us that real leadership means growing through the discomfort.
Whether you're new to leadership or knee-deep in managing people and purpose, this episode is a heart-forward, wisdom-packed reflection you won’t want to miss.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Male Room with Dr. Jesse Mills
As Director of The Men’s Clinic at UCLA, Dr. Jesse Mills has spent his career helping men understand their bodies, their hormones, and their health. Now he’s bringing that expertise to The Male Room — a podcast where data-driven medicine meets common sense. Each episode separates fact from hype, science from snake oil, and gives men the tools to live longer, stronger, and happier lives. With candor, humor, and real-world experience from the exam room and the operating room, Dr. Mills breaks down the latest health headlines, dissects trends, and explains what actually works — and what doesn’t. Smart, straightforward, and entertaining, The Male Room is the show that helps men take charge of their health without the jargon.