July 19, 2024 • 49 mins
It is said that Financial Security for All shouldn't be political. But the reality is that navigating financial politics can be trickier than it seems. Get ready for some amazing insights from legislative expert @Diane Boyle, Senior Vice President of Government Relations for the National Association of Insurance and Financial Advisors. Diane delves into the intricate world of financial politics, from the significance of landmark legislative pieces to the current state of financial advocacy. Diane provides valuable insights into the challenges and opportunities facing the industry, efforts to improve financial literacy for all Americans, along with the necessity of humanizing the tax code to ensure informed decision-making.
Whether you're a financial professional, association leader, or simply interested in understanding the politics of money, this episode offers a wealth of knowledge and actionable insights. Tune in to stay informed about the pivotal legislative changes and how they impact your financial well-being. #financialsecurityforall #naifaproud #advocacymatters
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Episode Transcript
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(00:04):
You're listening to the Haney Company Financial Guy Show.
No nonsense, just a crazy mix of life, business, the funny, and of course,
we're going to talk about your money.
But just sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride. What could go wrong?
Music.
All right, welcome to another episode of the Haney Company Financial Guy Show.
(00:27):
I am pretty Pretty excited to kind of tread into a topic that,
you know, I've looked forward to talking about for a long time,
but I've never had the right person to talk to.
So, Diane Boyle, thank you for joining me today. I am really,
really excited for our conversation.
I am too, Brian. Thanks. I think it's going to be a lot of fun.
I mean, you know, who doesn't like to talk about politics, right?
(00:50):
Outside of like religion, right?
Aren't those the top two things that nobody should ever talk about,
right? We don't want to get into.
Sure. That's where I dive straight in. So there's no problem there.
Give me a topic that we're not supposed to talk about, and I have the gift of
gab, so I'll dive right in.
Head first. I love it. Fantastic. So I know you were prepared because the first
four questions are incredibly difficult, so we'll just get them out of the way one at a time.
(01:14):
What is the number one place that you want to visit on your bucket list,
but you haven't visited yet? Okay.
So I have two. I can't do just one.
The first is the Amalfi Coast because I haven't been there, but have been to
a bunch of places in Italy. The second is Greece because I haven't been to Greece at all.
So either one of those would satisfy. Top must go to travel that I haven't been to.
(01:38):
Awesome. I love both of those. I haven't been to the Amalfi Coast.
I've done Italy and I have done Greece. I'm a huge Greece enthusiast.
So yes. Well, when I climb my trip, we should get together.
100%. Oh, my gosh. I love Greece. Such a great place. So, all right.
Out the gate, we are winning on this. Okay.
(01:59):
What food will you not eat under any circumstance?
Well, you know, you talked about politics. I'm slowly realizing that I'm not
answering any of your questions, which is perfect for a policy,
political discussion, right?
But I'm going to give you the answer that I want. I'm from Louisiana.
There's no food that I won't eat.
As a matter of fact, it reminds me of, there was a story and it goes where they're
(02:23):
a mama crawfish and a baby crawfish and they're out in the field walking around
and they come across a cow and a little baby crawfish.
Immediately the claws go up and the mama crawfish goes, no, no,
no, don't worry about that. That's a cow. Cows don't eat crawfish.
So they walk a little further and all of a sudden the mama crawfish claws goes
up and the baby wilts and says, what's wrong? It's like, that's a Cajun. They'll eat anything.
(02:43):
So I actually don't have things that I won't eat. There are things that I don't
like, but there's nothing that I'm not willing to try.
And probably if you can fix it, you know, I'll give it a go even if I don't
like it for a second round of something.
So, yeah, I've got nothing on what I won't eat.
I have to say, in over 50 plus episodes, that is a first and I love it.
(03:07):
But, you know, we can usually always find one thing. For me,
it continues to be and will always be insects.
I don't care. like it just people say hey we can we can dip it in chocolate.
Yeah well and i i don't i don't enjoy the crustacean part of the seafood palette
(03:28):
anyway like i'm not i don't really seek out or i'm interested in crabs or lobster
or all that kind of stuff just that's not on my palate that i would enjoy i
wouldn't avoid it if i had to too.
But yeah, crawfish, those seem to be, I think you're right, they're closer to me, insect, than not.
But yeah, it's just not happening. I don't care.
(03:50):
I know that there are, I've seen crushed insect flour.
I'm like, I'm not even doing that. You can't even bake it away.
If I knew that that's what it used to be. If I know what it is, you're not touching it.
It's just not happening. Not happening. You can't even trick me.
We'll stay with the food theme. If you could have dinner with a famous person,
and it can be anybody in human history.
So they can be alive, they can be dead. Who would you want to share a meal with?
(04:13):
And like I said, I'm doing horribly on my first four questions because my answer
here, whenever given an opportunity to eat with someone who has passed,
it's always going to be my pet.
I love that with that question. I'm not starstruck. So like,
I certainly recognize that they're historians that I would love to be with.
But when you're given that choice of pick a person, it's not going to be it's
(04:35):
not going to be somebody famous. It's going to be my dad.
That resonates with me, too. Having having having lost my mom not too long ago,
I think maybe I probably would rather have a meal with her again than, you know, other other.
It's not the person that, you know, you know, you know what that conversation
is going to be. If it's someone who's famous or in history, you can read about them.
(04:56):
I'm not going to develop a relationship with that individual in my one meal.
But the one meal that I lost with somebody that I did know, like you're saying
with your mom passing, you know what that relationship is. You know what that
conversation is going to be like.
And you're going to cherish that, I think, far. I would cherish it far greater
than anyone else that I don't know.
I love that. Yeah, I agree. And maybe I'd have to ask her. I was like,
(05:19):
mom, maybe we invite somebody famous.
And we're all like, that's because she was a social butterfly.
So her answer would absolutely be yes. And it didn't matter who it was.
She's like, yeah, bring it on. Yeah, my dad would be the same. Large, large groups.
I love it. All right. Besides this podcast, are there any other podcasts or
shows that you would recommend that you've enjoyed that you've gotten value
(05:41):
out of that you would share with the audience? I can.
The challenge is unless you're 50 or over woman, you're probably not going to be interested.
But the podcast that I listened to is actually from a friend of mine who we
grew up together as kids.
And she's a huge fitness and nutritionist.
(06:02):
And so she has a podcast and it's Get Unstuck. and it's geared toward women
over 50 on how do you maintain routine?
How do you get the right nutrition? How do you make sure that you're exercising
for the second half of your life?
And so, and she always encourages, which I think is always kind of interesting
because a lot of times it's not when I'm walking.
Sorry, Heather. You're supposed to put in your earbuds and take a walk and then listen to the podcast.
(06:29):
Those are sort of the requirements. And sometimes it's just,
you know, when you're in the park.
So but i do i do try to do that and i
do find that interesting and it is it creates not only
is it the the podcast that she has where she
shares whatever topic is sort of trending and walks
through it it's sort of a unique community and
i find it particularly helpful because we do so she's actually on my end of
(06:51):
the type of podcast like we're 60 and over but i digress it's good the best
that i listened to that was awesome i love that is being married to a wife who
is a, you know, a health and nutrition coach and all that.
We just, I love how I think now podcasting in addition to other kinds of mediums
is really allowing more people like, like her, you said Heather, is that right?
(07:15):
Yeah, awesome. Yeah, to be able to reach, you know,
you know, reflect, like target audiences so that way the message really hits
home and really resonates because I think that that's, frankly,
especially in an area like health and wellness,
that has been too much of a, you know, everybody needs to take this pill or
do this exercise or eat this way. Like that's, that's not just not true.
(07:37):
Like bioindividuality is a real thing. So I think that sounds fantastic.
And I'll certainly have to check it out. See if my wife will check it out as well.
You know, she loves all of that stuff, too. So that's good. That was a great
way to start the first four. Not not as hard.
So maybe I need to I need to toughen up some of these questions.
But let's talk about you because you've had a pretty fun professional journey.
(08:02):
And what you get to do every day is is pretty interesting being on the front
lines of the political landscape.
But, you know, just tell the audience about your journey and how you got to
where you are and maybe any of the highlights that don't all have to flow through
the professional channel per se.
But if there's one really cool, quirky thing about Diane Boyle that that you
want to share with with a mass audience on a podcast, feel free to include that.
(08:26):
Yeah. Great. Thanks. Yeah, it was.
I do. I love my job. I love what I'm doing. I love talking with legislators
and feeling like we're making a difference for the financial professionals that we represent in April.
My journey if you get started goes back
i mentioned that i was from louisiana so i started the louisiana state
legislature i worked there for delegation we
(08:48):
have parishes not not counties there so it was the jefferson parish delegation
and it had seven senators and 14 representatives and so that was sort of my
start into politics saying that
you want me to go all the way back rates falling. I won't do that to you.
But that was my first professional launch. And to give you an idea,
(09:09):
the current majority leader in the House, the least, is from Jefferson Barracks.
So he would, he probably actually did, because he served after I had moved to
D.C. So I didn't work with him there.
But that's the area. And that kind of got me started.
Then I worked for two members of Congress from Louisiana when I first moved up here.
(09:30):
And that's sort of it. You talk about an interesting kind of quirky story is
I left the Hill because I had, and I had a little saying to go with it,
why I left the Hill, right?
I didn't want my job security to be tied to their popularity.
Whenever you're working for a legislator, especially somebody who's in the House,
every two years they're running.
And so the anxiety level of, ooh, am I going to have a job based off of this member's popularity?
(09:54):
It was a little unsettling. So love the world, but didn't necessarily want to
stay on the Hill. So I'd love to have Lynch work for...
Actually a soft drink association was my my first foray
out hill life and then to to me
that i've actually been there for a month but when i was on maternity leave
the member of congress that i had one of the members of congress that i had
(10:15):
worked for on the hill was put up to be speaker of the house and so your wife
will probably share this with you as well when you're home on maternity leave
you have full-blown conversations with this infant who has no idea what you're
talking about But you do.
So I'm watching unfold my former boss being put up for speaker.
And so I'm looking at my son and I'm like, such an idiot.
(10:37):
How cool would it be to work in the speaker's office? Like that would be a really cool job.
Three days later, there's like a whole scandal. He not only steps down from
being the nominee for speaker, but also completely resounds from Congress.
He finds all of the he was he handled it
well he went and made sure that he was staying for the order to
(10:59):
reposition all of his staff but like these were my former colleagues that
he's making sure they have new jobs so that i'm looking back at the infant again
i'm like i'm so smart my son is now 25 and i don't know that he would agree
with i'm so smart but i'm probably somewhere in the middle i was a lot dumber
when he was in teenage years he definitely would have disagreed with your mom's so smart.
(11:21):
I'm sort of easing back into that mom's not an idiot.
Category so but then so i
was working with andrew as i said i've been with me for 32 years which
is a really really long time but you know it's representing people
that keep buying that that makes my job easy because i really do believe in
the work that you do to help people so it never is unsettling if you work as
(11:42):
a lobbyist if you're representing someone that you don't believe in or if there's
an issue that comes up that it doesn't quite sit right with you it would make
your job really hard. I don't have those things.
I really don't. What you do to serve people and make their lives better and
more financially secure makes it really easy for me to have conversations with legislators to say,
hey, let's really be a policy and make sure that we're helping people to save
(12:05):
for retirement or to make sure that they're planning for their business,
whatever the issue of the day is.
So that's sort of who I am, how I got here. I love that. And NAFA could not
have picked somebody better.
So I just have to absolutely say, please don't leave.
I don't know what the contract Kevin has for you says, but there better be a
(12:28):
giant asterisk that says Diane Boyle's here for life.
Life because you do you do such a great job to
help us handle the politics
of money which to your point i really think shouldn't
be divisive right we should all want to do money well right to have a good financial
experience and have the financial services industry represent our interests
(12:51):
in in the best way possible but i think sometimes not everybody necessarily
sees how that needs to unfold the same way.
And that's frankly why you're there on the front lines for us.
So thank you for doing that.
You mentioned something, and I guess I just want to ask this question,
because I think it's safe to say, right?
I'm a native Austinian. We've been in D.C. long enough. Not everybody has the
(13:15):
warm and fuzzies for the word lobbyist.
So what would you say to someone, though, for whom the word or the term or the
role doesn't sit very well? What would you say about that?
Well, I have this conversation with my husband. Why don't you?
We educate, and it is. Yes, there's a connotation that goes,
(13:37):
what's funny is that my husband is a attorney.
So I'm like, oh, really? And he's like, so we battle with each other,
right? Who has the worst reputation?
And they're bad in both businesses. You can have a bad lobbyist.
You can have a bad attorney who's out there.
But really what the lobbyist's job is and should be is to work with legislators to educate them.
(13:57):
You mentioned something about the politics of money and the importance of it.
The reason it's so important is that, and this is really any industry,
there's no one representative who's going to be elected who is going to understand
in depth all of the issues that they have to address.
It's impossible. So it's not a slight on them, but they have to rely on people
(14:19):
who have ties back to the industry that they're making decisions about, who can inform them.
And one of the things that I think we'll talk about in a little bit later is
the current challenges that faces our industry and what we need to do.
We're talking huge amounts of money.
And if you're looking at how do you derive revenue, because the federal government,
(14:44):
and you've heard me say this, the federal government does not have big sales.
The only way that they generate revenue is through the tax code.
So they have to look to find where the money is then they're going to look at
what where can they change the tax status to generate revenue for the government
to pay for the things that they want to do that's how it's done that's not there's
(15:07):
no political slant to that that's a factual statement.
Where you get into sort of the political side of it is if they don't understand
what that number represents and it's easy for them to sort of pluck whatever
that item is and say oh okay hey, I could find X number of dollars by changing the tax status here.
And then funding something else that I'm going to do. If they don't understand
(15:30):
what that amount or that tax status represents in the way of their constituents,
the people that they were elected to represent, how does that impact for them?
And they're going to make bad decisions. So the lobbyist's job is to go in and
whoever they're representing, in fact, you've lobbied, you've come in,
you do it as a constituent lobbyist.
(15:51):
I happen to be a paid lobbyist. But when you go in
and have a conversation and share your expertise with a
lawmaker and then ask them to make a decision
based on that information you were lobbying and that's not
a bad thing it's not a bad thing at all so it's
when you understand it as education in the what's really heartwarming if you
(16:12):
will for for a lobbyist who is told quite often right like you're you're part
of the problem is when the legislators come back and say there's no way i have
to be able and like i said they're good and bad lobbyists.
And so you'll hear members say, I need somebody that I can trust to run the
spy. So you have to develop that trusted relationship.
That's a lobbyist to establish that level of relationship and trust with a lawmaker
(16:37):
and their staff to know, okay, I can contact Diane and I know that she's going
to tell me the truth. She's going to tell me how it impacts her members.
She's going to tell me who is actually going to be against her and why.
Because that's what I do.
Like, hey, we're asking you to push back on something, them,
but this is where you may see resistance.
I still think I'm right. I still think that the policy that we're advocating
(16:57):
for makes a difference and is the right way to go.
But no, not everyone agrees with me. Here's where you're going to hear some pushback.
And then that legislator has to make that decision. But you're helping them
by providing them information.
You know, I love something that you said in that.
And I, you know, and yes, I've seen you share it so eloquently so many times,
(17:18):
but I really think it's humanizing these issues and making them real.
Because, I mean, you said it so well, looking at taxes and thinking about revenue
in an aggregated sense to fund major government initiatives and all that kind
of stuff, that's very arbitrary.
And it's easy, I would think, to kind of step into that arena and not see it
(17:41):
for what it is, not to see all of how those dominoes fall and all the consequences
of a certain change, decision, what have you, would actually unfold.
You're just really looking a lot of times at You know, a revenue opportunity or this or that.
So, you know, I think that's certainly
what I would categorize as a as a good lobbyist or but just kind of what the
(18:02):
role is in general is making sure that those that are representing our interest
in elected offices understand the human component to the decision making framework
that they're trying very hard to understand and to be responsible for.
Yeah, well, and what's really interesting, I'm percolating into some of our
issues, and I won't nerd out on you too deeply, I promise, but they look at
(18:24):
a budget window of 10 years.
So in our industry in particular, you're looking at promises that span beyond the 10-year window.
So you have to have those conversations as well as it's not just what you're
seeing here, but think beyond because our industry is taking in,
(18:44):
if you're looking at an insurance product,
premiums now for payout or even looking at long-term care insurance where you're
coming in and you're funding a future expense that's outside of that 10-year window. Yeah.
You're right. It is easy to look at the numbers and not get the tune.
And they're not exalted for that. They don't have that information.
(19:08):
So if we don't provide it to them, that's on us, not on you.
I totally agree. And I do want to actually get into the present day and have
a lot of that nerd out conversation because I do like that.
And I certainly want to make sure the audience gets a chance to see what's going
on, because we've got some pretty critical things happening.
And this is a fairly pivotal, critical time. But I'm a bit of a history enthusiast,
(19:32):
and your perspective on this is going to be extremely valuable.
What would you say have been some of the most significant legislative pieces
that impact the financial industry that you could say in recent memory,
or are things that have a significant impact that maybe we don't necessarily understand?
Understand, like, oh, this is why it is this way.
(19:54):
Just, you know, top two, top three things that you would say,
yeah, this was a landmark piece that changed the way we do money.
Right. I'm not going to scare you. Don't be scared when I throw out the first
one, which was in 1913, because I won't go from there each year.
But in 1913 was the establishment of the income tax.
Part of that was the exclusion, like insurance tax benefits,
(20:16):
the cash buildup within a policy.
And that's significant. That forms the whole sort of basis around life insurance.
And it has stopped since 19th. And we've had lots of challenges,
and I wasn't around for the first one, but NAFA was.
And they went in and had a conversation with President Wilson back in the day to discuss.
(20:40):
And his response was, why would I tax people who are voluntarily choosing to tax themselves.
And it makes a lot of sense. But we go back and constantly face that,
is there an opportunity, and we talked about it a little bit earlier,
to change the tax status of the life insurance policy, particularly the.
Cash value within the policy, because there's a lack of understanding of why
(21:03):
it exists, the purpose of it, how it can be utilized to save businesses and
families, and the list goes on and on, right?
Provide living benefits, like all of the uses that help to provide financial
security for individuals and small businesses that don't then have to rely on
(21:23):
the Government Safety Net.
And so when you put all of that together, it sort of makes sense.
But anyway, so that's a big one.
And the other bids were probably the creation of the individual retirement account,
which I think had its hand in, and 401k plans.
In my tenure, you're looking at the creation of medical savings accounts,
which then turned into health savings accounts, and ABLE accounts for disabled
(21:45):
individuals just paying favorable accounts and save for some of their needs,
which is really interesting.
NARAB, so if you look at licensing of members, that was something that we were involved in.
Retirement side, you're looking at Secure 1 and 2, which enhanced and provided
additional options for employers and individuals to save for their retirement.
(22:08):
There's pandemic relief that we were involved in, and that was helpful.
There was for small businesses, there was remote online notarization at the same time.
So like when you see these pandemics come in, we still go in and make the case
of how do we make our systems work?
And so we did that. There was also the Senior Save Act was put in.
(22:29):
So we try to be proactive wherever we're looking to say, you know,
we don't want to see our senior population exploited in a financial sense.
And sort of needs some protection.
I'll stop there. I should be able to go on.
The list is long, but it's fun and it's meaningful and you sort of forget.
(22:49):
And then you look back and you go, wait a minute, I remember working on that.
And I remember someone giving a presentation recently because there were some
enhancements to the ABLE Act as part of the tax cut in jobs after 2017.
And when that expires, it could negatively impact ABLE accounts.
I don't remember who it was, but anyway, someone was talking.
And they said, and ABLE accounts, like, and I'm like, I actually lobbied to
(23:11):
have the ABLE accounts created and enacted.
Yeah, I'm very familiar with the ABLE accounts.
So that's when the pride comes in, right? That you actually worked on things
that really make a difference in someone's life.
Yeah, and I'm so glad you covered more than I would have imagined.
And we also didn't get into things like ERISA or Sarbanes-Oxley or Dodd-Frank
(23:32):
or all the other traditional things that I think probably,
you know, for some practitioners are like, Like, oh, yeah, those things kind
of, you know, they're always there, but they're probably not,
I think, as day-to-day practical as the ones that you listed. So I love that.
Yeah. And yes, I mean, there's a lot that I think most people experience across
the footprint of our country that we've had to be on the front lines to either
(23:58):
enact or create and also defend and preserve things.
Not because necessarily, you know, any one party or politician is anti-something
or out to get us or what have you.
But because, yeah, it's a challenging climate, especially when you're talking
about, you know, a debt that's, you know, 30 plus trillion dollars.
(24:22):
And that's real money.
It's not monopoly money. Yeah.
And it's got to be paid somehow.
Like there's no, you know, magic formula or one that just makes it go away.
So I think that that's really, really important.
And so let's then bring that to current day.
I mean, what would you say the general state of financial politics and advocacy looks like?
(24:47):
And maybe we should start to walk through some of the things that it's going
to be important, not just for, I think, NAFA members to be aware of and people
that are in our industry, but I think it's really important for people across
all industries to be aware.
These things are going on that actually can have an impact on your daily lives.
Yeah, I think the biggest, and this is what we're spending most of our time
on right now, is in 2025, there are a number of tax provisions that expire that
(25:12):
were put in place as part of the 2017 tax cut in job setting.
That's going to impact rates on individuals.
So anyone who's listening is going to be impacted by that if Congress doesn't
act, which I think they will.
What they do, we don't know, as you mentioned, their deficits.
So there are some numbers that are saying, look, we've got to start paying this down.
(25:35):
We can't just continue to move forward without some real due diligence on what
tax policies we're putting in place.
And again, it's that tampering with the tax code is how you're going to derive
revenue, which can either offset the debt, pay for new initiatives,
continue initiatives that we have out there that are expiring.
(25:58):
And the key, and I've said this to many of our members, and I'll say it to any
other industry, I just don't know how you necessarily apply it,
you have to humanize the tax code.
Absolutely. Every provision that is being considered is going to need to be humanized.
If you look at just the 2017 to the 2025 Congress, and we have in between that
(26:20):
an election cycle, right?
So in November, we're going to have a whole slew of new members of Congress.
Let's put that aside. If every member of Congress who is running for office
is reelected, only 85 of them were in Congress in 2017.
If 435 members, 85 will remember what happened in the conversations that took
(26:45):
place in 2017 that said, what negotiations,
what balances, what tradeoffs do we need to develop this tax policy? Right.
So we have to start educating those members now.
Then in November, we're going to have a new slew of people.
And we know without the first member losing an election, an incumbent losing
(27:07):
an election, there are going to be 50 new members just from retirements,
people running for different offices.
So there's going to be a whole new wave of legislators.
And chances are they're not going to know the ins and outs.
And certainly not if they even understand the policy. I'll say,
let's say it was a Brian Genie that was running for office and was elected.
And I'd say, oh, good. Brian knows what's going on.
(27:29):
You may understand how to humanize our industry as it relates to the tax code.
But what you would be missing was the exchange and the process of negotiation.
And I think a lot of people miss on, and you mentioned earlier that our issues
are nonpartisan. They're not.
(27:50):
We're looking for financial security. There has to be negotiation and compromise.
No one is going to get what they want 100% of the time.
So when you're looking at the tax code in particular, there's going to be some give and take.
Even if you get a sweep, I don't care if the Dems want a clean slate and they
end up with the presidency of the House and the Senate, which is looking really unlikely right now.
(28:13):
But even if they get that within the Democratic Party, you're going to have
different groups that have different priorities.
Authorities so how do you negotiate and get a deal same on
the republican side if you get a republican suite there's going
to do different factions within the party that are going to say no i want to
pay down the debt first and foremost or you're going to have some that are going
to say no i want to renew the tax cuts that we had put in place before because
(28:37):
we feel like they pay for themselves and it's actually somewhere in between
if you look at reality of what happened
with the tax cuts that were put in place.
Some of them paid for some lift. Did they pay for themselves in entirety as a package?
Probably not, if added to the deficit.
So how do you find that sweet spot?
(28:58):
And not having that history is really challenging. So I think.
We go in with the stories and say, look, when you're looking at this policy,
if your only desire, and I'm going to pick one that I actually think is probably
a good thing, everyone sort of goes, oh my gosh, that debt is huge.
Let's say that somebody's sole initiative was to bring down the debt,
(29:20):
then they would be eliminated. They would look to tax absolutely everything.
Our job would be then to go in and say, okay, as a starting point,
let me tell you why this tax policy is good.
When we have people that plan for their financial needs, when they're self-sufficient,
when they're able to save for their retirement, then it's an offset on the public
(29:41):
safety net that's needed for those who aren't able to do so.
So if you take that away, how does that shift the dynamics of funding needs for a public program?
And then you start, right? So now you have somebody thinking,
okay, so tell me how do these products work?
So then you go back to what are the products and services that you offer to
individuals that actually help improve and serve as a partner with the public
(30:06):
programs that are out there to help people financially?
It's so interesting how something can be so singular, right?
The fact that, yeah, we have a national budget and a national debt,
and that the dominoes fall across from there to a lot of areas,
economically, financially, politically, etc.
(30:29):
And yet, you know, the significance of,
yeah, us handling how to do that very well,
I mean, I mean, I guess in theory,
the can can be kicked down the proverbial road for a little while longer,
but I just, I don't, I mean, at some point there's a tipping point and things
(30:49):
are going to have to, the levers are going to have to be pulled.
And so I think that what you're talking about and why this isn't just a financial
industry issue, it cannot be understated.
I mean, this is an all hands on deck issue, regardless of political persuasion.
You know how do we really make sure frankly if
we're talking about making americans financially healthy i think it's
(31:12):
also probably pretty important for our country and its infrastructure to be
financially healthy and thoughtful about how they go about uh engaging
and you know how their decisions impact you know
americans that this is going to be an interesting time no and you're right when
you start thinking like outside of our industry which is always interesting
to open side lobby for our industry so i know what what provisions i'm looking
(31:33):
for that make sure that our members and the clients that they serve are put
in a situation that helps them.
But when you talk about, and we talked about negotiation, right?
And coming to compromise too, take all of the energy.
Tax components. How do they factor in? So none of it can be looked at in isolation.
(31:54):
My job is to be very focused. The legislator's job is to be very broad.
So it goes back and now I'm getting a justification for my profession again.
But their knowledge level is very broad, but very shallow.
They look to each individual industry to provide that depth.
And they have of staff that are dedicated.
(32:15):
But even within the staff assignments, they're having broad issues.
So they're looking for trusted resources.
And so whether you're in the financial services industry or another industry,
you should really focus on making sure that you're meeting with those legislators
and those staffs in providing yourself and your knowledge, your expertise in
a given area as a source of information and a resource.
(32:39):
Well, and, you know, since obviously the financial industry back to where we
do money and how we do money.
We're not just regulated and
impacted federally, obviously, state and even local comes to the table.
Let's talk a little bit about some of the risks that I think our industry faces
in all of those domains that I think it's really important for people to be
(33:01):
aware of that I think and what we're seeing and what we have seen is while we
talked about money being a nonpartisan issue,
being able to have financial security and do money as well as we can,
should be kind of a fairly even keel cut across American life.
It seems like of late that that's not always the way other parties see it.
(33:24):
So let's talk about just kind of some of the risks that I think our industry is facing.
Again, I think the intention of legislation doesn't always have a negative twist
to it, right? We all come to the table with the best of intentions.
It's just how those intentions then play out practically and what the the subsequent
impact is on either the delivery of services or the impact of the professionals
delivering those services.
(33:45):
So what would you say are some of those, what are some of the things that we're
dealing with that maybe not everybody's aware of?
I think the, well, I'm seeing this. So the partisan nature of politics right
now is particularly tough.
It is an election year. So election year politics do come into play.
You'll see a lot of the congressional activity right now is very much messaging.
(34:07):
So it's very much one party trying to push through legislation so that they're
going to have the campaign and let's talk about what they were working on.
And it's both sides of the aisle. So I'm not trying to slam one party over the other.
It's the unfortunate reality of an election year.
So we're seeing that. I think that's interesting. You mentioned the states,
(34:29):
too, which is absolutely true.
And I should have listed that in one of the wins.
So McCarran Ferguson actually established that the states really have priority
in regulation over the insurance industry.
So our industry, if you're looking from the insurance side of it,
is really regulated at the state level, not so much at the federal level.
And so we have the 50 state legislatures
that are making those decisions in the way and i
(34:52):
think and this isn't so much well i guess it is a challenge but i see it more
as an opportunity and something fun that we're working on is this actual financial
literacy so if you start getting into right you do it even with your own kids
actually story i'm sure which i think is pretty funny my son probably It's not think of simple.
But getting financial literacy to kids to start thinking about it sooner than
(35:16):
finding out that they're an adult and not understanding the relationship that
they have with them is a tough one.
So we've been working with the state legislatures to make sure that high school
graduates are guaranteed a semester of personal finance before they graduate.
And 26 states have adopted it. And we're not all implemented yet,
but we're making steps there. So I think that's really exciting to see.
(35:38):
The story that I'll share, as I said, you start with your own kids.
But what we've learned with the financial literacy programs is it's not just
the kids that are walking away with that education.
It's the teachers that are providing the courses. Though a lot of times when
the legislatures are pushing it through, the teachers are sort of the first
ones to go, I don't know that I'm qualified to provide that context.
(35:59):
And so we have to help them. But
so once it's implemented, you have the teachers who have been learning.
You have the kids who, unfortunately, those that are really needing that personal
finance class in high school probably didn't get the education at home because
the parents don't have it.
So the parents, there's a ripple effect, if you will, that when you're teaching
(36:20):
it with or that high school student, it's the teacher, it's the parents,
it's an extended community that is actually learning, which is a really good thing.
And I think it's good public policy to have that in place.
And it's going to help with people coming out across the board.
It's going to be good for you for business because you're going to have people
(36:42):
who come in with some basic understanding.
You're not helping somebody dig out of debt. You're helping them plan for future
expenses, which is a much better place to be.
You're going to have individuals who are coming out who wouldn't be able to
see you for service at all, not needing to rely on public assistance as much
(37:02):
because they're not getting themselves into a situation that they can't get out of.
So it's just that all around. The story that I was going to share is when And
my youngest son at Bless Amazon had a wishlist on Amazon, ordered when we were
away for spring break, like $12 a month of junk on Amazon. Amazon had one click.
Highly recommend. So here's a good little tip for all of your listeners with young children.
(37:28):
Disenable Amazon one click if you have it and they have wishlists.
They can move stuff from their wishlist to the card and it arrives on your phone.
It's a lovely little system.
So anyway, so we sent all of that back. it was
a really fun time in that family but where i
knew the the silver lining of the whole experience which
was not enjoyable at the time was that
(37:49):
with that the following christmas he asked for
debt forgiveness as one of his christmas presents and i'm like yes my kid understands
debt he understands forgiveness he understands payback he's lying and he's eight
was eight at the time but so anyway so financial literacy is really interesting
i got off topic but i'm supposed to be naming for you challenges from the industry?
(38:13):
Yeah, so I think that's it. I think as an industry or.
As a citizenship, really, we're facing some really challenging times as far
as the financial stability of the government.
Forget about financial stability of individuals.
But if you're looking at our governments being financially stable, how do they get there?
(38:36):
And again, no big sales. So it means they're going to be looking at the tax code.
And it means that they need to look at it with as much information and humanization
as can be provided. And so that's a real opportunity.
I mean, it makes me nervous, the timeframe in which they have to act,
because a number of those provisions that we talked about expire at the end of 2025.
(39:00):
So they need to make some decisions pretty quickly. Getting people up to speed
who are going to be elected in November to make those decisions the next year isn't a big runway. way.
If you look at 2017, it was probably the last biggest tax change prior to 1986.
I would say that was probably the other big.
In 2017, they were having working groups, members of Congress were having working
(39:26):
groups in 2011, 2012, working up to 2017.
There are some tax teams that were We're just formulated and in progress,
but it's 2024. They need to act in 2020 for life.
So they're going to be drinking from a fire hose as far as information.
And we're going to do our part, unfortunately. Sorry they have to drink from
(39:46):
a fire hose, but if you do, we're going to make sure that we have our hose hooked up first.
And we're trying to get that information. And you think life happens,
which I know you know very well, produces some of the sorts.
When it talks about how financial professionals work with fines to secure families
and to secure businesses, and it documents that experience, we're sharing this.
(40:09):
That's the information. We have until October to submit information to the tax teams.
I don't think we should wait until then. We will submit something probably next week, week after.
We're pulling it together now so that we can have it there.
And there's nothing that says if something doesn't come about or they need additional
information, then we can't provide it again, a second submission.
(40:30):
There's no limitation on how many times we will end. But I think the sooner
that we get that information out to the tax teams, the better we're going to
be positioned. Because that'll start with one who understands.
What's sort of unfortunate from my perspective is that the tax teams in the House are,
republican they will establish by the the current chairman and
they don't include the democrats that are on the committee and i
(40:54):
sort of get why as i mentioned it doesn't matter whether you have
a sweep by one party or another that there are different groups within each
of those parties that need to sort of come together to have an understanding
and so i think that's why the chairman started with his conference in in the
tax teams or republican because they need to get them up to speed from his perspective within his party.
(41:17):
But at some point, you're going to have to bring on the Democrats.
And so when we submit our tax team information, we'll share it with the minority
as well to make sure that they have that information.
Are they looking at it in the same way? Are they having the same type of discussions?
Not in the same format. But we're making sure that we're... Because you need every vote.
(41:39):
And you've heard me say this too. And when you look at a lot of things out there,
I don't care who you send me.
When they get to Congress, that's the sandbox that you've created for me.
And we have to prepare how to make that work.
So we're going to share our information with every member of Congress that is there.
And we can start having those conversations. We start with the committees of jurisdiction.
(42:00):
So we have the committees of means and Senate Finance Committee is where we're
focusing our effort. in the grand chat.
Yeah, it's the windows shrinking and it's certainly going to be another mad
dash to kind of get everything together.
But this is, yeah, this is a critical time. And I think it's really one where
it is important for everyone to be aware of the significance of the job that
(42:24):
needs to be done because heading into 2025,
that's, you know, 2017 was significant and impactful. 2025 is going to be the same way.
One way or another. And so, you know, While it's easier, I think,
to grab on to maybe other political topics that are in different categories
that probably have more emotional connections to it.
(42:44):
Maybe taxes and money doesn't always have that same emotion to it,
but it hits all of us, regardless of what we do and all of that.
And so I can't understate enough how important it is for every American to be engaged on this.
It is going to be far-reaching and impactful, and nobody's going to be incubated from that.
And it's not a wealthy versus non-wealthy. It's not a, you know,
(43:08):
Democrat or Republican.
This is just, like you said, the financial health of the nation is all-encompassing. And that's,
That's what we're fighting for. I want to take one final moment to talk about,
we mentioned some of the risks that I think our industry faces.
And I guess one that I've seen as a practitioner also in this space,
(43:29):
with all of the domains that I've been working in, is one where there has been
some, whether it's legislative efforts, I think it's just more,
let's just call it the marketing of certain things where industries can be painted a certain way.
And practitioners can sometimes be demonized. And again, financial industry
is not alone in that to happen.
We were just talking and joking about attorneys and all the other stuff, right?
(43:51):
It's the two bad apples that give the rest of the bunch the reputation, all that kind of stuff.
But I think it's probably important for, I guess,
any listener to realize that NAIFA and the work that we are doing to stand in
is about creating as good of a financial experience for every American as humanly
possible and empowering those practitioners, people in various roles,
(44:13):
to be able to deliver as many options to all as we can.
Dan, so maybe if you just have any kind of statements or you just want to talk
about helping people to be wary about, A,
things that come across that kind of demonize that, but also why it's important
to allow our industry and the practitioners in the way that they are operating
to continue to be able to operate that way.
(44:34):
Sure. And, you know, one of the biggest challenges is probably on the regular
board more so than the legislative front.
And I know we just have a few minutes left, so I won't go into a whole lot.
But the Supreme Court has had some roll-ins recently that look like they're
going to change the dynamics, how some of the regulatory agencies are able to create rules that...
(44:55):
Either demonize, which I don't think they're solely designed to demonize the
industry, but they certainly put some restrictions on, as you said,
how some practitioners are able to engage and can work with consumers.
Why I bring that up, though, is that what we're seeing, and I had a conversation
with the Ways and Means staffer yesterday on this, and it was,
it changes how you have to write and draft legislation,
(45:18):
because the legislation can no longer just say the secretary shall,
out, the secretary may, and then send it over to the regulatory agency to sort of fill in the blanks.
The legislative body, and in my opinion, it was their job to begin with.
So that put my gauntlet down on that one.
But when I worked on the Hill, you didn't have these huge gaps and it wasn't designed to be that way.
(45:41):
But the legislative body is elected because they are supposed to be responsive to constituents.
The regulatory agencies really aren't. They're not designed But if they're not
designed that way, then they shouldn't be making decisions on policies that
really were supposed to be legislative in nature.
Like, if you look at the whole fiduciary issue, there was no legislative problem.
(46:02):
And there should have been in my opinion. paying. So anyway,
I think, yes, we absolutely need to see legislation, regulation.
We need to have consumers to recognize, do your own due diligence.
Make sure that the individual that you're working with to help you with your
financial needs is someone that a friend has recommended, that somebody has used them before.
(46:25):
Sit down and have a conversation with them. Make sure that you have a rapport
with them. If you don't, walk away, find somebody else.
But to suggesting there's certain potential certainly any education that an
individual has gone through is going to make them a better person doesn't make them a perfect person,
Have those conversations, just as you would when you would pick out any other professional.
(46:47):
Make sure that you're doing your due diligence there. Be wary of people who
say, only if you work with someone like me or in my category.
People have different needs. People have different incomes.
They have different backgrounds, different desires, different goals.
All of that matters. And it matters to you as an individual who you work with.
(47:12):
So, the idea, and you're right there, I say, even if you go back to sort of
that judiciary rule, we lost a PR battle, we didn't lose the legislative battle
when we went through the first time,
is that there was a narrative spun that some professionals want to try to question,
and that's unfortunate. watching.
So I would be cautious if you're a consumer. And if you're a professional,
(47:35):
Brian and I were talking beforehand, don't just do the stuff.
Do your job, do it well, be honest, and you're good to go.
And the same on the consumer side, just make sure you're talking to people and
find an effort that works for you.
Absolutely. Well, any final parting thoughts, shout outs you want to give?
And how can people also follow your efforts? Because I I know not everybody's
(47:57):
going to be reaching out to you
directly, but where do you want people's eyeballs to go moving forward?
If you're looking, Napa.org is a great website. There's actually a consumer
component to it once you get there.
I think it says consumers. Don't hold me to that one. But if you dig around,
you can find sort of the consumer element. And I'm happy to share my information.
I can be found at dboyle at Napa.org. And would be happy to talk with anyone.
(48:23):
As you know, I have a gift to Gap. So you've been warned. Should you engage?
There will be a conversation that follows.
Well, Diane, it's been great. I'm so surprised we haven't done this sooner.
Thank you for being on and helping us talk about the politics of money today.
I really appreciate it. I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me here.
Music.
(48:53):
The information provided in this podcast is not intended as specific tax or
legal advice and may not be relied upon for purposes of avoiding any federal tax penalties.
The Haney Company, its employees, and representatives are not authorized to
give tax or legal advice.
Individuals are encouraged to seek advice from their own tax or legal counsel.
Individuals involved in the estate planning process should work with an estate
planning team, including their own personal legal or tax counsel.
(49:15):
The information provided here does not constitute personal financial advice,
but is meant as the conveyance of information for educational purposes only.
All investing involves risk, including the risk of loss.
Past performance is not indicatory of future returns.
Guarantees are backed by the claims-paying ability of the insurer.
You're listening to the Haney Company Financial Guy Show.
No nonsense, just a crazy mix of life, business, the funny, and of course,
we're going to talk about your money.
But just sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride. What could go wrong?
Music.
All right, welcome to another episode of the Haney Company Financial Guy Show.
(00:27):
I am pretty Pretty excited to kind of tread into a topic that,
you know, I've looked forward to talking about for a long time,
but I've never had the right person to talk to.
So, Diane Boyle, thank you for joining me today. I am really,
really excited for our conversation.
I am too, Brian. Thanks. I think it's going to be a lot of fun.
I mean, you know, who doesn't like to talk about politics, right?
(00:50):
Outside of like religion, right?
Aren't those the top two things that nobody should ever talk about,
right? We don't want to get into.
Sure. That's where I dive straight in. So there's no problem there.
Give me a topic that we're not supposed to talk about, and I have the gift of
gab, so I'll dive right in.
Head first. I love it. Fantastic. So I know you were prepared because the first
four questions are incredibly difficult, so we'll just get them out of the way one at a time.
(01:14):
What is the number one place that you want to visit on your bucket list,
but you haven't visited yet? Okay.
So I have two. I can't do just one.
The first is the Amalfi Coast because I haven't been there, but have been to
a bunch of places in Italy. The second is Greece because I haven't been to Greece at all.
So either one of those would satisfy. Top must go to travel that I haven't been to.
(01:38):
Awesome. I love both of those. I haven't been to the Amalfi Coast.
I've done Italy and I have done Greece. I'm a huge Greece enthusiast.
So yes. Well, when I climb my trip, we should get together.
100%. Oh, my gosh. I love Greece. Such a great place. So, all right.
Out the gate, we are winning on this. Okay.
(01:59):
What food will you not eat under any circumstance?
Well, you know, you talked about politics. I'm slowly realizing that I'm not
answering any of your questions, which is perfect for a policy,
political discussion, right?
But I'm going to give you the answer that I want. I'm from Louisiana.
There's no food that I won't eat.
As a matter of fact, it reminds me of, there was a story and it goes where they're
(02:23):
a mama crawfish and a baby crawfish and they're out in the field walking around
and they come across a cow and a little baby crawfish.
Immediately the claws go up and the mama crawfish goes, no, no,
no, don't worry about that. That's a cow. Cows don't eat crawfish.
So they walk a little further and all of a sudden the mama crawfish claws goes
up and the baby wilts and says, what's wrong? It's like, that's a Cajun. They'll eat anything.
(02:43):
So I actually don't have things that I won't eat. There are things that I don't
like, but there's nothing that I'm not willing to try.
And probably if you can fix it, you know, I'll give it a go even if I don't
like it for a second round of something.
So, yeah, I've got nothing on what I won't eat.
I have to say, in over 50 plus episodes, that is a first and I love it.
(03:07):
But, you know, we can usually always find one thing. For me,
it continues to be and will always be insects.
I don't care. like it just people say hey we can we can dip it in chocolate.
Yeah well and i i don't i don't enjoy the crustacean part of the seafood palette
(03:28):
anyway like i'm not i don't really seek out or i'm interested in crabs or lobster
or all that kind of stuff just that's not on my palate that i would enjoy i
wouldn't avoid it if i had to too.
But yeah, crawfish, those seem to be, I think you're right, they're closer to me, insect, than not.
But yeah, it's just not happening. I don't care.
(03:50):
I know that there are, I've seen crushed insect flour.
I'm like, I'm not even doing that. You can't even bake it away.
If I knew that that's what it used to be. If I know what it is, you're not touching it.
It's just not happening. Not happening. You can't even trick me.
We'll stay with the food theme. If you could have dinner with a famous person,
and it can be anybody in human history.
So they can be alive, they can be dead. Who would you want to share a meal with?
(04:13):
And like I said, I'm doing horribly on my first four questions because my answer
here, whenever given an opportunity to eat with someone who has passed,
it's always going to be my pet.
I love that with that question. I'm not starstruck. So like,
I certainly recognize that they're historians that I would love to be with.
But when you're given that choice of pick a person, it's not going to be it's
(04:35):
not going to be somebody famous. It's going to be my dad.
That resonates with me, too. Having having having lost my mom not too long ago,
I think maybe I probably would rather have a meal with her again than, you know, other other.
It's not the person that, you know, you know, you know what that conversation
is going to be. If it's someone who's famous or in history, you can read about them.
(04:56):
I'm not going to develop a relationship with that individual in my one meal.
But the one meal that I lost with somebody that I did know, like you're saying
with your mom passing, you know what that relationship is. You know what that
conversation is going to be like.
And you're going to cherish that, I think, far. I would cherish it far greater
than anyone else that I don't know.
I love that. Yeah, I agree. And maybe I'd have to ask her. I was like,
(05:19):
mom, maybe we invite somebody famous.
And we're all like, that's because she was a social butterfly.
So her answer would absolutely be yes. And it didn't matter who it was.
She's like, yeah, bring it on. Yeah, my dad would be the same. Large, large groups.
I love it. All right. Besides this podcast, are there any other podcasts or
shows that you would recommend that you've enjoyed that you've gotten value
(05:41):
out of that you would share with the audience? I can.
The challenge is unless you're 50 or over woman, you're probably not going to be interested.
But the podcast that I listened to is actually from a friend of mine who we
grew up together as kids.
And she's a huge fitness and nutritionist.
(06:02):
And so she has a podcast and it's Get Unstuck. and it's geared toward women
over 50 on how do you maintain routine?
How do you get the right nutrition? How do you make sure that you're exercising
for the second half of your life?
And so, and she always encourages, which I think is always kind of interesting
because a lot of times it's not when I'm walking.
Sorry, Heather. You're supposed to put in your earbuds and take a walk and then listen to the podcast.
(06:29):
Those are sort of the requirements. And sometimes it's just,
you know, when you're in the park.
So but i do i do try to do that and i
do find that interesting and it is it creates not only
is it the the podcast that she has where she
shares whatever topic is sort of trending and walks
through it it's sort of a unique community and
i find it particularly helpful because we do so she's actually on my end of
(06:51):
the type of podcast like we're 60 and over but i digress it's good the best
that i listened to that was awesome i love that is being married to a wife who
is a, you know, a health and nutrition coach and all that.
We just, I love how I think now podcasting in addition to other kinds of mediums
is really allowing more people like, like her, you said Heather, is that right?
(07:15):
Yeah, awesome. Yeah, to be able to reach, you know,
you know, reflect, like target audiences so that way the message really hits
home and really resonates because I think that that's, frankly,
especially in an area like health and wellness,
that has been too much of a, you know, everybody needs to take this pill or
do this exercise or eat this way. Like that's, that's not just not true.
(07:37):
Like bioindividuality is a real thing. So I think that sounds fantastic.
And I'll certainly have to check it out. See if my wife will check it out as well.
You know, she loves all of that stuff, too. So that's good. That was a great
way to start the first four. Not not as hard.
So maybe I need to I need to toughen up some of these questions.
But let's talk about you because you've had a pretty fun professional journey.
(08:02):
And what you get to do every day is is pretty interesting being on the front
lines of the political landscape.
But, you know, just tell the audience about your journey and how you got to
where you are and maybe any of the highlights that don't all have to flow through
the professional channel per se.
But if there's one really cool, quirky thing about Diane Boyle that that you
want to share with with a mass audience on a podcast, feel free to include that.
(08:26):
Yeah. Great. Thanks. Yeah, it was.
I do. I love my job. I love what I'm doing. I love talking with legislators
and feeling like we're making a difference for the financial professionals that we represent in April.
My journey if you get started goes back
i mentioned that i was from louisiana so i started the louisiana state
legislature i worked there for delegation we
(08:48):
have parishes not not counties there so it was the jefferson parish delegation
and it had seven senators and 14 representatives and so that was sort of my
start into politics saying that
you want me to go all the way back rates falling. I won't do that to you.
But that was my first professional launch. And to give you an idea,
(09:09):
the current majority leader in the House, the least, is from Jefferson Barracks.
So he would, he probably actually did, because he served after I had moved to
D.C. So I didn't work with him there.
But that's the area. And that kind of got me started.
Then I worked for two members of Congress from Louisiana when I first moved up here.
(09:30):
And that's sort of it. You talk about an interesting kind of quirky story is
I left the Hill because I had, and I had a little saying to go with it,
why I left the Hill, right?
I didn't want my job security to be tied to their popularity.
Whenever you're working for a legislator, especially somebody who's in the House,
every two years they're running.
And so the anxiety level of, ooh, am I going to have a job based off of this member's popularity?
(09:54):
It was a little unsettling. So love the world, but didn't necessarily want to
stay on the Hill. So I'd love to have Lynch work for...
Actually a soft drink association was my my first foray
out hill life and then to to me
that i've actually been there for a month but when i was on maternity leave
the member of congress that i had one of the members of congress that i had
(10:15):
worked for on the hill was put up to be speaker of the house and so your wife
will probably share this with you as well when you're home on maternity leave
you have full-blown conversations with this infant who has no idea what you're
talking about But you do.
So I'm watching unfold my former boss being put up for speaker.
And so I'm looking at my son and I'm like, such an idiot.
(10:37):
How cool would it be to work in the speaker's office? Like that would be a really cool job.
Three days later, there's like a whole scandal. He not only steps down from
being the nominee for speaker, but also completely resounds from Congress.
He finds all of the he was he handled it
well he went and made sure that he was staying for the order to
(10:59):
reposition all of his staff but like these were my former colleagues that
he's making sure they have new jobs so that i'm looking back at the infant again
i'm like i'm so smart my son is now 25 and i don't know that he would agree
with i'm so smart but i'm probably somewhere in the middle i was a lot dumber
when he was in teenage years he definitely would have disagreed with your mom's so smart.
(11:21):
I'm sort of easing back into that mom's not an idiot.
Category so but then so i
was working with andrew as i said i've been with me for 32 years which
is a really really long time but you know it's representing people
that keep buying that that makes my job easy because i really do believe in
the work that you do to help people so it never is unsettling if you work as
(11:42):
a lobbyist if you're representing someone that you don't believe in or if there's
an issue that comes up that it doesn't quite sit right with you it would make
your job really hard. I don't have those things.
I really don't. What you do to serve people and make their lives better and
more financially secure makes it really easy for me to have conversations with legislators to say,
hey, let's really be a policy and make sure that we're helping people to save
(12:05):
for retirement or to make sure that they're planning for their business,
whatever the issue of the day is.
So that's sort of who I am, how I got here. I love that. And NAFA could not
have picked somebody better.
So I just have to absolutely say, please don't leave.
I don't know what the contract Kevin has for you says, but there better be a
(12:28):
giant asterisk that says Diane Boyle's here for life.
Life because you do you do such a great job to
help us handle the politics
of money which to your point i really think shouldn't
be divisive right we should all want to do money well right to have a good financial
experience and have the financial services industry represent our interests
(12:51):
in in the best way possible but i think sometimes not everybody necessarily
sees how that needs to unfold the same way.
And that's frankly why you're there on the front lines for us.
So thank you for doing that.
You mentioned something, and I guess I just want to ask this question,
because I think it's safe to say, right?
I'm a native Austinian. We've been in D.C. long enough. Not everybody has the
(13:15):
warm and fuzzies for the word lobbyist.
So what would you say to someone, though, for whom the word or the term or the
role doesn't sit very well? What would you say about that?
Well, I have this conversation with my husband. Why don't you?
We educate, and it is. Yes, there's a connotation that goes,
(13:37):
what's funny is that my husband is a attorney.
So I'm like, oh, really? And he's like, so we battle with each other,
right? Who has the worst reputation?
And they're bad in both businesses. You can have a bad lobbyist.
You can have a bad attorney who's out there.
But really what the lobbyist's job is and should be is to work with legislators to educate them.
(13:57):
You mentioned something about the politics of money and the importance of it.
The reason it's so important is that, and this is really any industry,
there's no one representative who's going to be elected who is going to understand
in depth all of the issues that they have to address.
It's impossible. So it's not a slight on them, but they have to rely on people
(14:19):
who have ties back to the industry that they're making decisions about, who can inform them.
And one of the things that I think we'll talk about in a little bit later is
the current challenges that faces our industry and what we need to do.
We're talking huge amounts of money.
And if you're looking at how do you derive revenue, because the federal government,
(14:44):
and you've heard me say this, the federal government does not have big sales.
The only way that they generate revenue is through the tax code.
So they have to look to find where the money is then they're going to look at
what where can they change the tax status to generate revenue for the government
to pay for the things that they want to do that's how it's done that's not there's
(15:07):
no political slant to that that's a factual statement.
Where you get into sort of the political side of it is if they don't understand
what that number represents and it's easy for them to sort of pluck whatever
that item is and say oh okay hey, I could find X number of dollars by changing the tax status here.
And then funding something else that I'm going to do. If they don't understand
(15:30):
what that amount or that tax status represents in the way of their constituents,
the people that they were elected to represent, how does that impact for them?
And they're going to make bad decisions. So the lobbyist's job is to go in and
whoever they're representing, in fact, you've lobbied, you've come in,
you do it as a constituent lobbyist.
(15:51):
I happen to be a paid lobbyist. But when you go in
and have a conversation and share your expertise with a
lawmaker and then ask them to make a decision
based on that information you were lobbying and that's not
a bad thing it's not a bad thing at all so it's
when you understand it as education in the what's really heartwarming if you
(16:12):
will for for a lobbyist who is told quite often right like you're you're part
of the problem is when the legislators come back and say there's no way i have
to be able and like i said they're good and bad lobbyists.
And so you'll hear members say, I need somebody that I can trust to run the
spy. So you have to develop that trusted relationship.
That's a lobbyist to establish that level of relationship and trust with a lawmaker
(16:37):
and their staff to know, okay, I can contact Diane and I know that she's going
to tell me the truth. She's going to tell me how it impacts her members.
She's going to tell me who is actually going to be against her and why.
Because that's what I do.
Like, hey, we're asking you to push back on something, them,
but this is where you may see resistance.
I still think I'm right. I still think that the policy that we're advocating
(16:57):
for makes a difference and is the right way to go.
But no, not everyone agrees with me. Here's where you're going to hear some pushback.
And then that legislator has to make that decision. But you're helping them
by providing them information.
You know, I love something that you said in that.
And I, you know, and yes, I've seen you share it so eloquently so many times,
(17:18):
but I really think it's humanizing these issues and making them real.
Because, I mean, you said it so well, looking at taxes and thinking about revenue
in an aggregated sense to fund major government initiatives and all that kind
of stuff, that's very arbitrary.
And it's easy, I would think, to kind of step into that arena and not see it
(17:41):
for what it is, not to see all of how those dominoes fall and all the consequences
of a certain change, decision, what have you, would actually unfold.
You're just really looking a lot of times at You know, a revenue opportunity or this or that.
So, you know, I think that's certainly
what I would categorize as a as a good lobbyist or but just kind of what the
(18:02):
role is in general is making sure that those that are representing our interest
in elected offices understand the human component to the decision making framework
that they're trying very hard to understand and to be responsible for.
Yeah, well, and what's really interesting, I'm percolating into some of our
issues, and I won't nerd out on you too deeply, I promise, but they look at
(18:24):
a budget window of 10 years.
So in our industry in particular, you're looking at promises that span beyond the 10-year window.
So you have to have those conversations as well as it's not just what you're
seeing here, but think beyond because our industry is taking in,
(18:44):
if you're looking at an insurance product,
premiums now for payout or even looking at long-term care insurance where you're
coming in and you're funding a future expense that's outside of that 10-year window. Yeah.
You're right. It is easy to look at the numbers and not get the tune.
And they're not exalted for that. They don't have that information.
(19:08):
So if we don't provide it to them, that's on us, not on you.
I totally agree. And I do want to actually get into the present day and have
a lot of that nerd out conversation because I do like that.
And I certainly want to make sure the audience gets a chance to see what's going
on, because we've got some pretty critical things happening.
And this is a fairly pivotal, critical time. But I'm a bit of a history enthusiast,
(19:32):
and your perspective on this is going to be extremely valuable.
What would you say have been some of the most significant legislative pieces
that impact the financial industry that you could say in recent memory,
or are things that have a significant impact that maybe we don't necessarily understand?
Understand, like, oh, this is why it is this way.
(19:54):
Just, you know, top two, top three things that you would say,
yeah, this was a landmark piece that changed the way we do money.
Right. I'm not going to scare you. Don't be scared when I throw out the first
one, which was in 1913, because I won't go from there each year.
But in 1913 was the establishment of the income tax.
Part of that was the exclusion, like insurance tax benefits,
(20:16):
the cash buildup within a policy.
And that's significant. That forms the whole sort of basis around life insurance.
And it has stopped since 19th. And we've had lots of challenges,
and I wasn't around for the first one, but NAFA was.
And they went in and had a conversation with President Wilson back in the day to discuss.
(20:40):
And his response was, why would I tax people who are voluntarily choosing to tax themselves.
And it makes a lot of sense. But we go back and constantly face that,
is there an opportunity, and we talked about it a little bit earlier,
to change the tax status of the life insurance policy, particularly the.
Cash value within the policy, because there's a lack of understanding of why
(21:03):
it exists, the purpose of it, how it can be utilized to save businesses and
families, and the list goes on and on, right?
Provide living benefits, like all of the uses that help to provide financial
security for individuals and small businesses that don't then have to rely on
(21:23):
the Government Safety Net.
And so when you put all of that together, it sort of makes sense.
But anyway, so that's a big one.
And the other bids were probably the creation of the individual retirement account,
which I think had its hand in, and 401k plans.
In my tenure, you're looking at the creation of medical savings accounts,
which then turned into health savings accounts, and ABLE accounts for disabled
(21:45):
individuals just paying favorable accounts and save for some of their needs,
which is really interesting.
NARAB, so if you look at licensing of members, that was something that we were involved in.
Retirement side, you're looking at Secure 1 and 2, which enhanced and provided
additional options for employers and individuals to save for their retirement.
(22:08):
There's pandemic relief that we were involved in, and that was helpful.
There was for small businesses, there was remote online notarization at the same time.
So like when you see these pandemics come in, we still go in and make the case
of how do we make our systems work?
And so we did that. There was also the Senior Save Act was put in.
(22:29):
So we try to be proactive wherever we're looking to say, you know,
we don't want to see our senior population exploited in a financial sense.
And sort of needs some protection.
I'll stop there. I should be able to go on.
The list is long, but it's fun and it's meaningful and you sort of forget.
(22:49):
And then you look back and you go, wait a minute, I remember working on that.
And I remember someone giving a presentation recently because there were some
enhancements to the ABLE Act as part of the tax cut in jobs after 2017.
And when that expires, it could negatively impact ABLE accounts.
I don't remember who it was, but anyway, someone was talking.
And they said, and ABLE accounts, like, and I'm like, I actually lobbied to
(23:11):
have the ABLE accounts created and enacted.
Yeah, I'm very familiar with the ABLE accounts.
So that's when the pride comes in, right? That you actually worked on things
that really make a difference in someone's life.
Yeah, and I'm so glad you covered more than I would have imagined.
And we also didn't get into things like ERISA or Sarbanes-Oxley or Dodd-Frank
(23:32):
or all the other traditional things that I think probably,
you know, for some practitioners are like, Like, oh, yeah, those things kind
of, you know, they're always there, but they're probably not,
I think, as day-to-day practical as the ones that you listed. So I love that.
Yeah. And yes, I mean, there's a lot that I think most people experience across
the footprint of our country that we've had to be on the front lines to either
(23:58):
enact or create and also defend and preserve things.
Not because necessarily, you know, any one party or politician is anti-something
or out to get us or what have you.
But because, yeah, it's a challenging climate, especially when you're talking
about, you know, a debt that's, you know, 30 plus trillion dollars.
(24:22):
And that's real money.
It's not monopoly money. Yeah.
And it's got to be paid somehow.
Like there's no, you know, magic formula or one that just makes it go away.
So I think that that's really, really important.
And so let's then bring that to current day.
I mean, what would you say the general state of financial politics and advocacy looks like?
(24:47):
And maybe we should start to walk through some of the things that it's going
to be important, not just for, I think, NAFA members to be aware of and people
that are in our industry, but I think it's really important for people across
all industries to be aware.
These things are going on that actually can have an impact on your daily lives.
Yeah, I think the biggest, and this is what we're spending most of our time
on right now, is in 2025, there are a number of tax provisions that expire that
(25:12):
were put in place as part of the 2017 tax cut in job setting.
That's going to impact rates on individuals.
So anyone who's listening is going to be impacted by that if Congress doesn't
act, which I think they will.
What they do, we don't know, as you mentioned, their deficits.
So there are some numbers that are saying, look, we've got to start paying this down.
(25:35):
We can't just continue to move forward without some real due diligence on what
tax policies we're putting in place.
And again, it's that tampering with the tax code is how you're going to derive
revenue, which can either offset the debt, pay for new initiatives,
continue initiatives that we have out there that are expiring.
(25:58):
And the key, and I've said this to many of our members, and I'll say it to any
other industry, I just don't know how you necessarily apply it,
you have to humanize the tax code.
Absolutely. Every provision that is being considered is going to need to be humanized.
If you look at just the 2017 to the 2025 Congress, and we have in between that
(26:20):
an election cycle, right?
So in November, we're going to have a whole slew of new members of Congress.
Let's put that aside. If every member of Congress who is running for office
is reelected, only 85 of them were in Congress in 2017.
If 435 members, 85 will remember what happened in the conversations that took
(26:45):
place in 2017 that said, what negotiations,
what balances, what tradeoffs do we need to develop this tax policy? Right.
So we have to start educating those members now.
Then in November, we're going to have a new slew of people.
And we know without the first member losing an election, an incumbent losing
(27:07):
an election, there are going to be 50 new members just from retirements,
people running for different offices.
So there's going to be a whole new wave of legislators.
And chances are they're not going to know the ins and outs.
And certainly not if they even understand the policy. I'll say,
let's say it was a Brian Genie that was running for office and was elected.
And I'd say, oh, good. Brian knows what's going on.
(27:29):
You may understand how to humanize our industry as it relates to the tax code.
But what you would be missing was the exchange and the process of negotiation.
And I think a lot of people miss on, and you mentioned earlier that our issues
are nonpartisan. They're not.
(27:50):
We're looking for financial security. There has to be negotiation and compromise.
No one is going to get what they want 100% of the time.
So when you're looking at the tax code in particular, there's going to be some give and take.
Even if you get a sweep, I don't care if the Dems want a clean slate and they
end up with the presidency of the House and the Senate, which is looking really unlikely right now.
(28:13):
But even if they get that within the Democratic Party, you're going to have
different groups that have different priorities.
Authorities so how do you negotiate and get a deal same on
the republican side if you get a republican suite there's going
to do different factions within the party that are going to say no i want to
pay down the debt first and foremost or you're going to have some that are going
to say no i want to renew the tax cuts that we had put in place before because
(28:37):
we feel like they pay for themselves and it's actually somewhere in between
if you look at reality of what happened
with the tax cuts that were put in place.
Some of them paid for some lift. Did they pay for themselves in entirety as a package?
Probably not, if added to the deficit.
So how do you find that sweet spot?
(28:58):
And not having that history is really challenging. So I think.
We go in with the stories and say, look, when you're looking at this policy,
if your only desire, and I'm going to pick one that I actually think is probably
a good thing, everyone sort of goes, oh my gosh, that debt is huge.
Let's say that somebody's sole initiative was to bring down the debt,
(29:20):
then they would be eliminated. They would look to tax absolutely everything.
Our job would be then to go in and say, okay, as a starting point,
let me tell you why this tax policy is good.
When we have people that plan for their financial needs, when they're self-sufficient,
when they're able to save for their retirement, then it's an offset on the public
(29:41):
safety net that's needed for those who aren't able to do so.
So if you take that away, how does that shift the dynamics of funding needs for a public program?
And then you start, right? So now you have somebody thinking,
okay, so tell me how do these products work?
So then you go back to what are the products and services that you offer to
individuals that actually help improve and serve as a partner with the public
(30:06):
programs that are out there to help people financially?
It's so interesting how something can be so singular, right?
The fact that, yeah, we have a national budget and a national debt,
and that the dominoes fall across from there to a lot of areas,
economically, financially, politically, etc.
(30:29):
And yet, you know, the significance of,
yeah, us handling how to do that very well,
I mean, I mean, I guess in theory,
the can can be kicked down the proverbial road for a little while longer,
but I just, I don't, I mean, at some point there's a tipping point and things
(30:49):
are going to have to, the levers are going to have to be pulled.
And so I think that what you're talking about and why this isn't just a financial
industry issue, it cannot be understated.
I mean, this is an all hands on deck issue, regardless of political persuasion.
You know how do we really make sure frankly if
we're talking about making americans financially healthy i think it's
(31:12):
also probably pretty important for our country and its infrastructure to be
financially healthy and thoughtful about how they go about uh engaging
and you know how their decisions impact you know
americans that this is going to be an interesting time no and you're right when
you start thinking like outside of our industry which is always interesting
to open side lobby for our industry so i know what what provisions i'm looking
(31:33):
for that make sure that our members and the clients that they serve are put
in a situation that helps them.
But when you talk about, and we talked about negotiation, right?
And coming to compromise too, take all of the energy.
Tax components. How do they factor in? So none of it can be looked at in isolation.
(31:54):
My job is to be very focused. The legislator's job is to be very broad.
So it goes back and now I'm getting a justification for my profession again.
But their knowledge level is very broad, but very shallow.
They look to each individual industry to provide that depth.
And they have of staff that are dedicated.
(32:15):
But even within the staff assignments, they're having broad issues.
So they're looking for trusted resources.
And so whether you're in the financial services industry or another industry,
you should really focus on making sure that you're meeting with those legislators
and those staffs in providing yourself and your knowledge, your expertise in
a given area as a source of information and a resource.
(32:39):
Well, and, you know, since obviously the financial industry back to where we
do money and how we do money.
We're not just regulated and
impacted federally, obviously, state and even local comes to the table.
Let's talk a little bit about some of the risks that I think our industry faces
in all of those domains that I think it's really important for people to be
(33:01):
aware of that I think and what we're seeing and what we have seen is while we
talked about money being a nonpartisan issue,
being able to have financial security and do money as well as we can,
should be kind of a fairly even keel cut across American life.
It seems like of late that that's not always the way other parties see it.
(33:24):
So let's talk about just kind of some of the risks that I think our industry is facing.
Again, I think the intention of legislation doesn't always have a negative twist
to it, right? We all come to the table with the best of intentions.
It's just how those intentions then play out practically and what the the subsequent
impact is on either the delivery of services or the impact of the professionals
delivering those services.
(33:45):
So what would you say are some of those, what are some of the things that we're
dealing with that maybe not everybody's aware of?
I think the, well, I'm seeing this. So the partisan nature of politics right
now is particularly tough.
It is an election year. So election year politics do come into play.
You'll see a lot of the congressional activity right now is very much messaging.
(34:07):
So it's very much one party trying to push through legislation so that they're
going to have the campaign and let's talk about what they were working on.
And it's both sides of the aisle. So I'm not trying to slam one party over the other.
It's the unfortunate reality of an election year.
So we're seeing that. I think that's interesting. You mentioned the states,
(34:29):
too, which is absolutely true.
And I should have listed that in one of the wins.
So McCarran Ferguson actually established that the states really have priority
in regulation over the insurance industry.
So our industry, if you're looking from the insurance side of it,
is really regulated at the state level, not so much at the federal level.
And so we have the 50 state legislatures
that are making those decisions in the way and i
(34:52):
think and this isn't so much well i guess it is a challenge but i see it more
as an opportunity and something fun that we're working on is this actual financial
literacy so if you start getting into right you do it even with your own kids
actually story i'm sure which i think is pretty funny my son probably It's not think of simple.
But getting financial literacy to kids to start thinking about it sooner than
(35:16):
finding out that they're an adult and not understanding the relationship that
they have with them is a tough one.
So we've been working with the state legislatures to make sure that high school
graduates are guaranteed a semester of personal finance before they graduate.
And 26 states have adopted it. And we're not all implemented yet,
but we're making steps there. So I think that's really exciting to see.
(35:38):
The story that I'll share, as I said, you start with your own kids.
But what we've learned with the financial literacy programs is it's not just
the kids that are walking away with that education.
It's the teachers that are providing the courses. Though a lot of times when
the legislatures are pushing it through, the teachers are sort of the first
ones to go, I don't know that I'm qualified to provide that context.
(35:59):
And so we have to help them. But
so once it's implemented, you have the teachers who have been learning.
You have the kids who, unfortunately, those that are really needing that personal
finance class in high school probably didn't get the education at home because
the parents don't have it.
So the parents, there's a ripple effect, if you will, that when you're teaching
(36:20):
it with or that high school student, it's the teacher, it's the parents,
it's an extended community that is actually learning, which is a really good thing.
And I think it's good public policy to have that in place.
And it's going to help with people coming out across the board.
It's going to be good for you for business because you're going to have people
(36:42):
who come in with some basic understanding.
You're not helping somebody dig out of debt. You're helping them plan for future
expenses, which is a much better place to be.
You're going to have individuals who are coming out who wouldn't be able to
see you for service at all, not needing to rely on public assistance as much
(37:02):
because they're not getting themselves into a situation that they can't get out of.
So it's just that all around. The story that I was going to share is when And
my youngest son at Bless Amazon had a wishlist on Amazon, ordered when we were
away for spring break, like $12 a month of junk on Amazon. Amazon had one click.
Highly recommend. So here's a good little tip for all of your listeners with young children.
(37:28):
Disenable Amazon one click if you have it and they have wishlists.
They can move stuff from their wishlist to the card and it arrives on your phone.
It's a lovely little system.
So anyway, so we sent all of that back. it was
a really fun time in that family but where i
knew the the silver lining of the whole experience which
was not enjoyable at the time was that
(37:49):
with that the following christmas he asked for
debt forgiveness as one of his christmas presents and i'm like yes my kid understands
debt he understands forgiveness he understands payback he's lying and he's eight
was eight at the time but so anyway so financial literacy is really interesting
i got off topic but i'm supposed to be naming for you challenges from the industry?
(38:13):
Yeah, so I think that's it. I think as an industry or.
As a citizenship, really, we're facing some really challenging times as far
as the financial stability of the government.
Forget about financial stability of individuals.
But if you're looking at our governments being financially stable, how do they get there?
(38:36):
And again, no big sales. So it means they're going to be looking at the tax code.
And it means that they need to look at it with as much information and humanization
as can be provided. And so that's a real opportunity.
I mean, it makes me nervous, the timeframe in which they have to act,
because a number of those provisions that we talked about expire at the end of 2025.
(39:00):
So they need to make some decisions pretty quickly. Getting people up to speed
who are going to be elected in November to make those decisions the next year isn't a big runway. way.
If you look at 2017, it was probably the last biggest tax change prior to 1986.
I would say that was probably the other big.
In 2017, they were having working groups, members of Congress were having working
(39:26):
groups in 2011, 2012, working up to 2017.
There are some tax teams that were We're just formulated and in progress,
but it's 2024. They need to act in 2020 for life.
So they're going to be drinking from a fire hose as far as information.
And we're going to do our part, unfortunately. Sorry they have to drink from
(39:46):
a fire hose, but if you do, we're going to make sure that we have our hose hooked up first.
And we're trying to get that information. And you think life happens,
which I know you know very well, produces some of the sorts.
When it talks about how financial professionals work with fines to secure families
and to secure businesses, and it documents that experience, we're sharing this.
(40:09):
That's the information. We have until October to submit information to the tax teams.
I don't think we should wait until then. We will submit something probably next week, week after.
We're pulling it together now so that we can have it there.
And there's nothing that says if something doesn't come about or they need additional
information, then we can't provide it again, a second submission.
(40:30):
There's no limitation on how many times we will end. But I think the sooner
that we get that information out to the tax teams, the better we're going to
be positioned. Because that'll start with one who understands.
What's sort of unfortunate from my perspective is that the tax teams in the House are,
republican they will establish by the the current chairman and
they don't include the democrats that are on the committee and i
(40:54):
sort of get why as i mentioned it doesn't matter whether you have
a sweep by one party or another that there are different groups within each
of those parties that need to sort of come together to have an understanding
and so i think that's why the chairman started with his conference in in the
tax teams or republican because they need to get them up to speed from his perspective within his party.
(41:17):
But at some point, you're going to have to bring on the Democrats.
And so when we submit our tax team information, we'll share it with the minority
as well to make sure that they have that information.
Are they looking at it in the same way? Are they having the same type of discussions?
Not in the same format. But we're making sure that we're... Because you need every vote.
(41:39):
And you've heard me say this too. And when you look at a lot of things out there,
I don't care who you send me.
When they get to Congress, that's the sandbox that you've created for me.
And we have to prepare how to make that work.
So we're going to share our information with every member of Congress that is there.
And we can start having those conversations. We start with the committees of jurisdiction.
(42:00):
So we have the committees of means and Senate Finance Committee is where we're
focusing our effort. in the grand chat.
Yeah, it's the windows shrinking and it's certainly going to be another mad
dash to kind of get everything together.
But this is, yeah, this is a critical time. And I think it's really one where
it is important for everyone to be aware of the significance of the job that
(42:24):
needs to be done because heading into 2025,
that's, you know, 2017 was significant and impactful. 2025 is going to be the same way.
One way or another. And so, you know, While it's easier, I think,
to grab on to maybe other political topics that are in different categories
that probably have more emotional connections to it.
(42:44):
Maybe taxes and money doesn't always have that same emotion to it,
but it hits all of us, regardless of what we do and all of that.
And so I can't understate enough how important it is for every American to be engaged on this.
It is going to be far-reaching and impactful, and nobody's going to be incubated from that.
And it's not a wealthy versus non-wealthy. It's not a, you know,
(43:08):
Democrat or Republican.
This is just, like you said, the financial health of the nation is all-encompassing. And that's,
That's what we're fighting for. I want to take one final moment to talk about,
we mentioned some of the risks that I think our industry faces.
And I guess one that I've seen as a practitioner also in this space,
(43:29):
with all of the domains that I've been working in, is one where there has been
some, whether it's legislative efforts, I think it's just more,
let's just call it the marketing of certain things where industries can be painted a certain way.
And practitioners can sometimes be demonized. And again, financial industry
is not alone in that to happen.
We were just talking and joking about attorneys and all the other stuff, right?
(43:51):
It's the two bad apples that give the rest of the bunch the reputation, all that kind of stuff.
But I think it's probably important for, I guess,
any listener to realize that NAIFA and the work that we are doing to stand in
is about creating as good of a financial experience for every American as humanly
possible and empowering those practitioners, people in various roles,
(44:13):
to be able to deliver as many options to all as we can.
Dan, so maybe if you just have any kind of statements or you just want to talk
about helping people to be wary about, A,
things that come across that kind of demonize that, but also why it's important
to allow our industry and the practitioners in the way that they are operating
to continue to be able to operate that way.
(44:34):
Sure. And, you know, one of the biggest challenges is probably on the regular
board more so than the legislative front.
And I know we just have a few minutes left, so I won't go into a whole lot.
But the Supreme Court has had some roll-ins recently that look like they're
going to change the dynamics, how some of the regulatory agencies are able to create rules that...
(44:55):
Either demonize, which I don't think they're solely designed to demonize the
industry, but they certainly put some restrictions on, as you said,
how some practitioners are able to engage and can work with consumers.
Why I bring that up, though, is that what we're seeing, and I had a conversation
with the Ways and Means staffer yesterday on this, and it was,
it changes how you have to write and draft legislation,
(45:18):
because the legislation can no longer just say the secretary shall,
out, the secretary may, and then send it over to the regulatory agency to sort of fill in the blanks.
The legislative body, and in my opinion, it was their job to begin with.
So that put my gauntlet down on that one.
But when I worked on the Hill, you didn't have these huge gaps and it wasn't designed to be that way.
(45:41):
But the legislative body is elected because they are supposed to be responsive to constituents.
The regulatory agencies really aren't. They're not designed But if they're not
designed that way, then they shouldn't be making decisions on policies that
really were supposed to be legislative in nature.
Like, if you look at the whole fiduciary issue, there was no legislative problem.
(46:02):
And there should have been in my opinion. paying. So anyway,
I think, yes, we absolutely need to see legislation, regulation.
We need to have consumers to recognize, do your own due diligence.
Make sure that the individual that you're working with to help you with your
financial needs is someone that a friend has recommended, that somebody has used them before.
(46:25):
Sit down and have a conversation with them. Make sure that you have a rapport
with them. If you don't, walk away, find somebody else.
But to suggesting there's certain potential certainly any education that an
individual has gone through is going to make them a better person doesn't make them a perfect person,
Have those conversations, just as you would when you would pick out any other professional.
(46:47):
Make sure that you're doing your due diligence there. Be wary of people who
say, only if you work with someone like me or in my category.
People have different needs. People have different incomes.
They have different backgrounds, different desires, different goals.
All of that matters. And it matters to you as an individual who you work with.
(47:12):
So, the idea, and you're right there, I say, even if you go back to sort of
that judiciary rule, we lost a PR battle, we didn't lose the legislative battle
when we went through the first time,
is that there was a narrative spun that some professionals want to try to question,
and that's unfortunate. watching.
So I would be cautious if you're a consumer. And if you're a professional,
(47:35):
Brian and I were talking beforehand, don't just do the stuff.
Do your job, do it well, be honest, and you're good to go.
And the same on the consumer side, just make sure you're talking to people and
find an effort that works for you.
Absolutely. Well, any final parting thoughts, shout outs you want to give?
And how can people also follow your efforts? Because I I know not everybody's
(47:57):
going to be reaching out to you
directly, but where do you want people's eyeballs to go moving forward?
If you're looking, Napa.org is a great website. There's actually a consumer
component to it once you get there.
I think it says consumers. Don't hold me to that one. But if you dig around,
you can find sort of the consumer element. And I'm happy to share my information.
I can be found at dboyle at Napa.org. And would be happy to talk with anyone.
(48:23):
As you know, I have a gift to Gap. So you've been warned. Should you engage?
There will be a conversation that follows.
Well, Diane, it's been great. I'm so surprised we haven't done this sooner.
Thank you for being on and helping us talk about the politics of money today.
I really appreciate it. I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me here.
Music.
(48:53):
The information provided in this podcast is not intended as specific tax or
legal advice and may not be relied upon for purposes of avoiding any federal tax penalties.
The Haney Company, its employees, and representatives are not authorized to
give tax or legal advice.
Individuals are encouraged to seek advice from their own tax or legal counsel.
Individuals involved in the estate planning process should work with an estate
planning team, including their own personal legal or tax counsel.
(49:15):
The information provided here does not constitute personal financial advice,
but is meant as the conveyance of information for educational purposes only.
All investing involves risk, including the risk of loss.
Past performance is not indicatory of future returns.
Guarantees are backed by the claims-paying ability of the insurer.
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