November 2, 2023 • 29 mins
This episode will transport you to the director's chair as we navigate the world of filmmaking with director Jay Russell. Prepare to uncover the pros and cons of a film-to-digital transition, discover why Jay cherishes the film's aesthetic, and discover how instantaneous feedback during digital shoots can be a game changer.
The stakes escalate as we go behind the scenes of the fire scenes with the uber-talented Joaquin Phoenix. Gain insight into the treacherous yet thrilling experience of shooting with fire, a close call on set, and the expert advice that kept the digital effects in check. Wrap up with a heartwarming tale from 'My Dog Skip' and a sneak peek into Jay's captivating future projects featuring Kevin Bacon, Brian Epstein, and Steve Niles. This is a must-listen for those keen on a deep dive into the essence of a film director's journey.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to the Heart of Show business.
I am your host, alexia Melocchi.
I believe in great storytellingand that every successful
artist has a deep desire toexpress something from the heart
to create a ripple effect inour society.
Emotion and entertainment areclosely tied together.
My guests and I want to giveyou insider access to how the
(00:28):
film, television and musicindustry works.
We will cover dreams come true,the road-life travel journey
beginnings and a lot of insightand inspiration in between.
I am a successful film andtelevision entrepreneur who came
to America as a teenager topursue my show business dreams.
Are you ready for someunfiltered real talk with
(00:50):
entertainment visionaries fromall over the world?
Then let's roll sound andaction.
Welcome to the Heart of Showbusiness.
Jay Russell is an American filmdirector, writer and producer.
He's a graduate of ColumbiaUniversity with an MFA in
(01:15):
screenwriting and directing.
He has written several projectsfor Paramount Pictures, imagine
Entertainment and has directednumerous documentaries for PBS,
fox, discovery, to Name a Few.
The List Could Go On.
He is known for great familyfilms, such as the Warner Family
(01:37):
movie that we all love andadore.
Personally, I've seen it ahundred times my dog Skip and,
of course, the beautiful waterhorse, which was about the Loch
Ness Monster.
He also directed two Disneyfeatures Tucker, everlasting and
the latter 49 with JoachimPhoenix, who got this year's
(01:59):
best actor Oscar, as also thehallmark original film One
Christmas Eve.
Jay is known for directing warmhearted family movies.
He has a great knack fortelling simple, straightforward
tales with an earnest emotionalresonance.
So I have to say, although Inever got the honor of working
(02:22):
with him but I do look forwardto that one day, because you and
I won that route many, manytimes I would like to welcome
Jay Russell to the Heart of Showbusiness and welcome Well,
thank you.
Thank you for having me.
It's so wonderful.
I mean, what a perfect time todiscuss about our love of movies
and television, right?
(02:44):
What's interesting for me, whyI actually wanted so much to
have you on the show, is becauseyou are one of those directors
who obviously first startedshooting on film versus digital
and obviously when you talk toyoung filmmakers they probably
do not even know what 35millimeter film is or 60
(03:05):
millimeter film.
So tell me a little about yourjourney and how are you doing
right now making that transitionfrom being an actual
traditional film director to,you know, obviously doing
digital?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Well, I mean, for me it started as a kid.
I sort of went through all thedifferent formats as a kid.
I used to shoot little supereight movies, you know.
I mean this was really startingat the basics.
So I would shoot super eightmovies and then when I got into
like college I would shoot on 16millimeter and then later on 35
millimeter.
(03:41):
And, by the way, a lot of kidsnow not only do they not know
about shooting on 35 millimeter,they much less know about
cutting on 35 millimeter.
I mean, my first two movies, Ibelieve, we actually sat at the
table and, you know, use theknife and cut the picture and
that's how we edited, you know.
And so that's how it allstarted.
(04:03):
And then, because I even shot,you know, even though a lot of
people were shooting digitalalready by the time, I shot
Water Horse or Sony and we shotit down in New Zealand and in
Scotland and I had the choice ofshooting digital then.
But you know, I was still tryingto stick to the idea of
(04:23):
shooting on film and you know,and there are certain directors
like Chris, nolan and Tarantinoand some of them, you know, they
still just absolutely want toshoot on film I've sort of now
made.
You know, I've rounded the curveand I've shot a couple of
things on digital now and reallythe image quality is pretty
much there now and there is acertain ease to it and you don't
(04:45):
have to worry about thescratches happening on the
negative and so forth, but ofcourse you do have to worry
about something happening to thehard drive, but there is an
ease to it.
And also, the one thing that Ido like about digital, which I
can't tell you how many timesthere have been a case of, there
have been cases on shooting onfilm where you know we have a
scene going and even as we'reshooting I might give a
(05:08):
direction to an actor and we trysomething else while the film
is still rolling, and then youhave the camera operator say,
you know, raise their hand andsay, oh, we're about to run out
of film.
Well, whereas in digital youcan just keep, you know, for the
most part you can just keepshooting, you know.
And so there's an advantage,and also there's definitely
advantages in post production todigital.
(05:30):
But I still love the look offilm and, you know, maybe before
it's all over I'll shootsomething else on film, you know
, but it's definitely a newworld in production these days.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yeah, and I'm sure it's also very convenient to be
able to look at the footageright then and there as you're
filming, because If you shotsomething and then, when you
were doing it on film, you wouldhave to literally go Watch the
footage and then you'll say damnit, you know I miss this, so I
miss this detail, and now youhave to go back and reshoot it.
While you can catch it rightthen and there, when you're
(06:04):
doing it on digital, you can seean envidia village and you can
see what's going on.
And then, of course, you havethe opportunity instead of
saying we're gonna fix it inpost, which is was always the
thing that we used to say backin the day now you can actually
fix it on the spot, right.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Well, you can.
And the other thing is well,you can still make obviously
make adjustments in post interms of the look of the
lighting and so forth.
But the other thing you can donow is when you're looking at
the high definition monitor,what you see is what you get,
you know.
I mean, you're able to see whatthe lighting is doing without
(06:42):
having to imagine what thelighting is doing.
So there's an advantage in thatway as well.
But you can still obviously doa lot of tweaking and so forth
later on.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
That's wonderful.
So let's go back to thebeginning.
Obviously, you said justearlier that when you were a kid
, you were shooting on supereight, so what made you want to
be a director?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
For me growing up, as it was kind of a toss-up of two
things that I really loved.
I loved music and I was amusician, and I was a musician
for most of the way throughcollege.
But I also loved movies, youknow.
I mean, I mean it's some of myearliest memories of going to
the movies with my parents andyou know, and they would take me
to the old, you know Disneyfamily films, you know, with
(07:26):
Dean Jones and Kurt Russell.
You know those movies and thoseold Disney comedies and I love
them.
And then the big blockbusterthings like sound of music or
whatever, and it just, you know,I was overwhelmed by Cinema and
and the big screen and, youknow, having pictures tell a
story, and so I always had aLove for it.
(07:46):
And also the other thing, andyou wouldn't know it by the
movies I've made, I was also abig Horror movie fan when I was
a kid.
Yeah, I loved, and particularlythe British hammer horror
movies.
So with Christopher Lee andPeter Cushing, I love those
movies.
And so all my first littlesuper eight movies, they were
all just complete Gore-fest, youknow, it was all about blood
(08:08):
and guts and stuff, you know.
So, and I still, and in fact,one of the things I'm working on
right now is a horror movie andI, before I'm done, I'm going
to make a horror movie becausereally those are the movies that
made me want to be a directorin a weird way.
So, and I just, you know, astime went on, I just as my
interest in music, you know.
(08:28):
I mean music is sort of likeathletics, in that at a certain
point, when you reach a certainpoint, you know whether you're
going to be able to do itprofessionally or not.
You know, I mean, you knowwhether you're going to be able
to play basketball in the NBA,and you're also sort of figure
out as a musician Can I do thisprofessionally?
Am I good enough to be able toplay Either in a major symphony
(08:51):
or, you know, or play jazz witha group or whatever you're doing
, and at a certain point realizeno, probably not.
I mean, I don't know that I'mgood, I'm not that good.
And so, while I was trying tofigure out then, well, what,
what am I going to do, I justspent more and more time in the
theater department at my collegeand more, and started Taking
(09:14):
film classes there and shootinglittle movies, but were more, a
little more sophisticated thanmy blood and guts Super eight
movies, and and started writingscripts.
And that was the key thing wasthe writing.
I got a lot of encouragementfrom one of my professors about
a couple of scripts I'd writtenand then, you know, and it sort
of went from there and I justnever looked backwards.
(09:36):
I just, you know, I mean fromthe day that I got that
encouragement, like you shouldreally give this a shot.
I mean, it's just been headlonginto it for the last however
many years you know that, andit's been a lot of years at this
point.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
So it has been a lot of years and it's interesting
that your first movie was abouta dog and then you went on to do
movies with children and Iwould think that, from a
director's standpoint, those areprobably the hardest things to
do when you are starting outquote unquote as a director is
(10:09):
to direct animals and to directchildren.
What was it like for you whenyou got into your first and
second movie and third movie?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Well, you know, I mean, interestingly, I'd made
even before Skip.
I'd made a very small budgetindependent film even before
that and I'd shot as you hadmentioned in your intro, I'd
shot a lot of documentary stuff.
So all of that was goodtraining ground going into the
first quote major film, whichwas Skip.
And the training ground waswith the documentaries.
(10:40):
The training was thinking onyour feet, because if you're
shooting things in real time andin reality there is no take two
, you know.
And the other thing that Ilearned while I was shooting all
that documentary work was Iwould still cover scenes that
were happening in real life, butif the drama was happening in
(11:02):
front of me, I still would tryto cover it as you would.
A movie, you know, with closeups and trying to follow the
action and so forth, but doingit on the fly, you know as it's
happening.
And that was great training forbeing prepared for anything.
And so when it came to withSkip, when it came to working
(11:23):
with kids and animals, well, yousort of had to be prepared for
anything, because you know asmuch as well as a dog might be
trained for a movie, or as wellas a kid, you know, maybe an
experienced kid actor orwhatever.
You still never know what'sgoing to happen.
You know, because one day thekid is going to be trained.
You know, because one day thekid is tired and he just can't.
You know, he's just not there.
(11:43):
So you got to figure out a wayto make it happen.
And the same with the dog,because you know the funny thing
with animals and film most ofthe things they do it's food
based.
You know, it's like if they do,if they walk from here to there
, then they get a treat.
Or if they run across a field,then they get a treat.
Well, at a certain point, youknow they aren't hungry anymore.
(12:07):
And then that's when it gets.
Tricky is when the treats don'tmean anything to them.
So it's all about thinking onyour feet.
But the key to that and I thinkthe key to that movie working
was, a we had a really goodscript and B the actors.
There was a great cast ofactors, but they understood the
(12:27):
complications of what we weredoing.
They understood that, okay, wegot to wait on the dog to get
hungry again.
Or okay, the kid needs to takea nap.
You know, because he's cranky.
So you know, it took a realsort of group effort to make
that happen.
And I was there to sort ofwrangle it all together.
I mean because directing to agreat degree as you I'm sure you
(12:49):
know it's like wrangling cats,you know, because the cats will
run off in all differentdirections, you got to get them
somehow in the same roomtogether.
I mean, that's kind of how itall started.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
And I guess it also helps that you know you're
involved many times in your ownprojects because you have
written the script.
You're also one of theproducers.
You know jumping forward to afilm like Ladder 49, which, of
course, is a way more dramatic,dealing with adult, professional
well, also the other ones wereprofessional actors but dealing
(13:20):
with big names like JohnTravolta and Joaquin Phoenix.
What was it like for you tomake that transition from
children, family fair tosomething which is dramatic,
powerful, emotionally impactful,like Ladder 49, that people
still look at it as one of theoriginal movies about
(13:42):
firefighters, that still standstoday as one of the ones that
people look for when they wantto see something like that?
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Well, thanks, alex.
I mean the thing to me it's allabout storytelling.
You know, whether you'retelling a story of a boy and his
dog, or, in the case of TuckerBelasting, whether you're
telling a story about a familywho's immortal, or, in the case
of Ladder 49, these firefighterstrying to save one of their own
, which is Joaquin's character,gets trapped in a burning
(14:10):
building that we look back overhis life.
It's all storytelling, you know.
And the wrinkle in Ladder 49,whereas, like with Skip, the
wrinkle was the dog, neverknowing how exactly the dog's
going to behave Well, in Ladder49, it was the fire, because all
the fire that you see in themovie, it's all real.
I mean, there was no.
At the time we shot that,digital work wasn't
(14:33):
sophisticated enough to be ableto put fire in those settings,
so we had to have real fire allthe time.
The actors they were highlytrained in their jobs, which, by
the way, ended up reallyworking for the characters of
the movie, because they went tothe fire academy, including
Joaquin and Travolta, and so bythe time we actually shot the
(14:53):
movie, they were practicallytrained well enough to work for
the fire department.
And we had to do that becausewe were sticking them in the
fire and if something had gonewrong, which at any time they
had to know how to getthemselves out of it and how to
save themselves.
So that was the dog in thatmovie, was the fire.
It was really, you know,dangerous and had us all you
(15:16):
know, on edge all the time, butat the end of the day, though,
it was just telling a story andthe rest of it was just a matter
of putting the shots together.
I'm going to jump ahead for asecond, but it's to your point.
When I made this movie, theWater Horse for Sony, it
involved a ton of digitaleffects.
I mean more digital effectsthan I'd ever worked with.
(15:37):
I mean, I think there wassomething like 1,200,.
You know visual effects shots inthe film, and you know, when I
went into it, I had a greatconversation with this fellow
named Joe Leteri, who was ourvisual effects supervisor for
that film.
Now, joe, you would know,because Joe is also the person
that runs Weta Digital down inNew Zealand for Peter Jackson,
(15:59):
and Joe has a string of Oscarson his desk.
He did, you know, he did allthe Lord of the Rings movies and
he did King Kong with Peter andhe did Jurassic Park, going
back to Spielberg, and so Joe islike the guru of visual effects
.
And Joe gave me the greatesttip I think I've ever gotten,
because when you're doing thesevisual effects movies, it might
(16:20):
be easy to get overwhelmed withthe scope of everything you're
doing.
And he said to me one day.
We're sitting on the set and hegoes.
You know, jay, we make thesethings one shot at a time, and
that was just like the most.
It's so simple.
But it just completely put meat ease Because I stopped
worrying about the hundreds andhundreds and hundreds of shots
(16:42):
that I had to get with visualeffects.
It was just one shot at a time,and when you focus that way,
well then suddenly it's notoverwhelmed, you know so.
But anyway, it was that similarapproach to the latter 49,
which is, yeah, we're going tobe doing a lot of crazy stuff in
this, but it's one shot at atime, you know.
So that's how we approached it.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Well, you must have had so many memorable moments
being on set in so manydifferent countries, settings,
circumstances.
Is there any specific memorythat stands out to you when you
were on set and you had acertain feeling like this is it,
I've made one of my best workhere?
(17:23):
Or any relationship that youhad with an actor in a talent
where there was magic happening?
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Well, I think, you know I mean probably and I've
loved working with all theactors I've worked with, and
I've had the great fortune ofworking with some really good
ones over over all the differentmovies, so a lot of people who
have Oscars on their desk butworking with Joaquin was really
special and it was every singleday exciting, because I haven't
(17:51):
met, and I doubt that I everwill meet, another actor that's
as committed to his craft thathe is, and you know, he just,
and he never lets up.
You know, it's like there isn'ta day where, oh, he's a little
off.
That day it's just not going tohappen with him.
And so, therefore, because he'sso prepared and he's so
committed, you have to show upwith your A game too, all the
(18:15):
time.
And so I think that was, youknow, probably the most exciting
experience I'd had with anactor, but also one of the
memorable things happening on aset was with him, whereas, as I
was saying, the fire was reallydangerous stuff and no one got
injured on the move, not a, noteven a turn of an ankle.
(18:36):
I mean, we were really luckythat no one got injured.
However, there was one shot andone day, and I'll never forget
it, because it scared the crapout of me was Joaquin was is at
the beginning of the movie.
If you see the movie you'll seethere's this big explosion in
this building and the floorcollapses underneath Joaquin and
(18:58):
he slides down and falls like anumber of floors.
Well, you know, obviously thatwas on a set and the floor
collapse was all a mechanicalthing.
You know where the floor wouldgo at different stages.
But as he's sliding down on thefloor collapses, all of this
burning material falls.
But it's supposed to fall afterhe goes down into the hole.
(19:23):
But something happened andthere was some misfire.
No pun intended, but when hewas sliding, all the fire came
down right on top of and if youwatch Really closely in that
sequence, you'll see that hisjacket on his back is on fire
and you'll also see this one bigchunk Flaming.
(19:45):
Something lands right by hisface and I'm talking about
inches from his face, and so andI'll tell you another
interesting thing about thatthat was one of the last shots
we did on the entire film, so wealmost burned walking up on the
very last day of shooting, butfortunately he never even knew
he was on fire, because when heslides down into the hole.
(20:06):
There were like three actualfire fighters down there to just
put him out immediately and hedidn't even know that he was on
fire.
But that was a certainly amemorable Moment.
And the other one I think Icould think of was Only because
it's a shot for people who likethe movie it was, it's a shot
that really moves people was atthe end of my dark skip.
(20:29):
We have this scene where theold skip, this old dog, he is
going to get up on the bed thathe always would sleep on with
when the when his Boy was a boyand and now he's he's grown, and
at the very end of the moviethe dog goes to the bed and he's
trying to get up on it, as healways did, but he's too old and
(20:49):
arthritic.
So then Kevin Bacon has to comeout and pick him up and put him
on the bed.
You know it.
Just, everybody just ballstheir eyes out.
You know when, at that scene.
Well, that scene almost didn'thappen because, as I was talking
about, you know, with dogs it'sit's very.
You know, dogs can usually onlydo as the trainer would told me
(21:10):
.
You know they can usually onlyeither do one trick or two
tricks at most at a time,Because the rest of it is too
confusing for them and and theyknow if they, okay, if I do the
one trick, I'll get a treat.
If I did the second trick, I'llget a treat, but that's about
it.
Well, in that shot the dog hadto do like three or four things.
It had to walk in this reallyslow sort of crippled way, and
(21:35):
that's one trick.
It had to get up to the bed andput its paw up on the bed.
That's two tricks.
That it had to scratch, like itcould, you know, like it was
trying to get up.
That's three tricks.
And then it had to turn aroundand look at Kevin Bacon when he
was gonna come and pick him andput him on top of.
So it was like four or fivetricks and we almost didn't get
(21:58):
it.
I mean, we just kept shootingand shooting and shooting and
shooting and finally, producer,you know, kind of, put his hand
on my back and he goes.
Yeah, I don't think it's gonnawork.
Let's, let's rethink it.
You know, I think he goes.
I just, you guys, see how, whatyou're going for and I know
what it's, but it's just notworking and we're gonna be here
all Day.
So you got to move on and Isaid can we just try one more
(22:21):
time?
Just one more time.
And on that last time he did itperfectly.
It's just as you see in themovie.
That's what happened was onthat very last time.
So those are two kind of likebig memories I have on shooting.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
What an incredible backstory.
Oh, my goodness, now I get tothink about it when I watch it
again and I think about wow,this actually was the last.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Last shot at it, the last shot.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
That is incredible.
So tell me, jay, what is nextfor you, because I know you are
always involved in a lot ofamazing projects and, as it
happens in our business, sometake off, some did not take off
because of what's going on, butwhat is it that is driving you
right now?
What are you passionate about?
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Well, as I told you earlier, I've written and it's
not when I say horror movie,it's not Texas Chainsaw Massacre
or anything like that, it'smore of a psychological horror
movie.
But I do have a horror moviethat I've written that I really
want to do that.
We were actually just about tostart casting when all of this
business stay at home businesshappened, so I'm hoping that's
(23:24):
something we'll pick back up onafter this is all over.
It's called You're Not Real, sothat's something that I'm
really excited to do.
And then I've got two truestories that I'm working on.
One is with my old friend,kevin Bacon, who I seem to keep
coming back and working withover the years, and Kevin and I
are working on this true storyof a.
(23:45):
It was a homeless man living inNashville like, literally
living under a bridge or freewaybridge, and he had moved to
Nashville like so many, like somany do out here who want to be
movie stars or whatever.
He had moved to Nashvillebecause he wanted to be a
country and Western star, butinstead he got addicted to drugs
(24:06):
and he just his life just wentabout as bad as it could
possibly go, but he neverstopped playing music, like,
even if it was on the street andhe never stopped writing songs.
Well, lo and behold, he ends upwriting a number one country
song.
I mean, the odds of thathappening are just astronomical,
(24:26):
you know, and anyway.
So I'm working on that storywith Kevin.
And then the other one that I'mworking on as a true story is
about Brian Epstein, and I don'tknow if you know that name at
all, but Brian Epstein was theyoung man who both discovered
and then was the manager of theBeatles.
But he also had a reallyinteresting and even tragic life
(24:47):
.
I mean, at the height ofBeatlemania he was 32 years old
and he died of what is likelydrug overdose at age 32.
And so it's both this amazingstory of this young man finding
these other young men and takingover the world.
But yet it still couldn't savehim, you know, given some of the
(25:10):
other things going on in hislife.
And that's the movie, becausethere's a lot of things that
went on in his life that nobodyknew about and it led to a
tragic ending.
But that's another one I'mworking on.
So there's a couple of truestories and then the other thing
that I've done, and it willagain once our business starts
up again.
It'll be published as alongtime friend of mine, as a
(25:32):
fellow named Steve Niles who'skind of a rock star in the comic
book world, and Steve and Ihave written a large format
graphic novel.
It's a 122-page graphic novelthat is going to be published
once we're able to publish it,and we're doing that through
John Carpenter's and his wifeSandy's company, storm King, and
(25:55):
Storm King is publishing it.
But it's something that notonly are we doing it as a
graphic novel but then we wantto turn it into a television
series as well.
So that's another thing I'vebeen working on.
So oddly, given that we're alltrapped here at home, there's a
certain part of the work that Ican still do because a lot of it
(26:16):
is in the writing stage rightnow.
So doing a lot of writing workand staying busy that way but
going stir crazy at the sametime.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah, aren't we all?
Well, I call this the winterseason, but at the same time,
it's during the winter that weget to prepare and we get to be
our most creative, uninterrupted, because we can do Zoom
meetings.
We can do a lot.
We don't have to run around intraffic and go to talk to people
.
We can do it over Zoom.
That we're doing right now inour interview.
So in closing, jay, is thereany word of advice that you
(26:48):
would like to give to anybodywho is a listener, who is
aspiring to be a filmmaker or atelevision maker or any type of
content creator?
What would be your biggestwords of wisdom that you would
like to impart in this beautifulconversation we just had?
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Well, I'm going to throw two things out there, and
one of them I'm going to stealfrom the fellow who said it to
me and I'll say it yet again.
I said it earlier you makethese things one shot at a time,
don't be overwhelmed by stuff.
It's one shot at a time.
That's one thing.
The other thing is and this maybe the most important thing and
(27:26):
I talk to young filmmakersabout it all the time because
all of us, we all get anxiousand we want everything to happen
all at once.
And the thing I tell them isit's not a sprint, it's a
marathon.
And then you've got to bewilling to go the distance, and
it's not.
If it happens overnight, wellthen, hallelujah, but it almost
(27:46):
never does, and it's a marathon.
And if you're not ready to runthe marathon, then don't get
involved with it, because it's along, long and winding road, as
the Beatles song said.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Longer.
I love that.
That has been such a greatconversation, Jay, and in
parting with you before we part,where can the listeners find
you?
Do you have any Instagramhandles, any sites that you
would like us to share with themso that they can look you up
and get to hear more of yourgreat words of wisdom and keep
(28:20):
up with your work?
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Well, I'm on Instagram, which usually is me
posting pictures of my dog, butthen I'm also on Twitter, where
I'm usually griping about somepolitical thing or another, but
every now and then it driftsinto movies.
But yeah, anybody can find meon that, and it's Dog Skip on
both of them.
I'm Dog Skip on Twitter and I'mDog Skip on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Thank you for listening to this week's episode
of the Heart of Show Business.
If you enjoyed it, please shareit with a friend.
You can also subscribe, rateand review the show on your
favorite podcast player.
If you have any questions orcomments or feedback for us, you
can reach me directly attheheartofshowbusinesscom.
(29:06):
And don't forget to leave it acomment.
Welcome to the Heart of Show business.
I am your host, alexia Melocchi.
I believe in great storytellingand that every successful
artist has a deep desire toexpress something from the heart
to create a ripple effect inour society.
Emotion and entertainment areclosely tied together.
My guests and I want to giveyou insider access to how the
(00:28):
film, television and musicindustry works.
We will cover dreams come true,the road-life travel journey
beginnings and a lot of insightand inspiration in between.
I am a successful film andtelevision entrepreneur who came
to America as a teenager topursue my show business dreams.
Are you ready for someunfiltered real talk with
(00:50):
entertainment visionaries fromall over the world?
Then let's roll sound andaction.
Welcome to the Heart of Showbusiness.
Jay Russell is an American filmdirector, writer and producer.
He's a graduate of ColumbiaUniversity with an MFA in
(01:15):
screenwriting and directing.
He has written several projectsfor Paramount Pictures, imagine
Entertainment and has directednumerous documentaries for PBS,
fox, discovery, to Name a Few.
The List Could Go On.
He is known for great familyfilms, such as the Warner Family
(01:37):
movie that we all love andadore.
Personally, I've seen it ahundred times my dog Skip and,
of course, the beautiful waterhorse, which was about the Loch
Ness Monster.
He also directed two Disneyfeatures Tucker, everlasting and
the latter 49 with JoachimPhoenix, who got this year's
(01:59):
best actor Oscar, as also thehallmark original film One
Christmas Eve.
Jay is known for directing warmhearted family movies.
He has a great knack fortelling simple, straightforward
tales with an earnest emotionalresonance.
So I have to say, although Inever got the honor of working
(02:22):
with him but I do look forwardto that one day, because you and
I won that route many, manytimes I would like to welcome
Jay Russell to the Heart of Showbusiness and welcome Well,
thank you.
Thank you for having me.
It's so wonderful.
I mean, what a perfect time todiscuss about our love of movies
and television, right?
(02:44):
What's interesting for me, whyI actually wanted so much to
have you on the show, is becauseyou are one of those directors
who obviously first startedshooting on film versus digital
and obviously when you talk toyoung filmmakers they probably
do not even know what 35millimeter film is or 60
(03:05):
millimeter film.
So tell me a little about yourjourney and how are you doing
right now making that transitionfrom being an actual
traditional film director to,you know, obviously doing
digital?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Well, I mean, for me it started as a kid.
I sort of went through all thedifferent formats as a kid.
I used to shoot little supereight movies, you know.
I mean this was really startingat the basics.
So I would shoot super eightmovies and then when I got into
like college I would shoot on 16millimeter and then later on 35
millimeter.
(03:41):
And, by the way, a lot of kidsnow not only do they not know
about shooting on 35 millimeter,they much less know about
cutting on 35 millimeter.
I mean, my first two movies, Ibelieve, we actually sat at the
table and, you know, use theknife and cut the picture and
that's how we edited, you know.
And so that's how it allstarted.
(04:03):
And then, because I even shot,you know, even though a lot of
people were shooting digitalalready by the time, I shot
Water Horse or Sony and we shotit down in New Zealand and in
Scotland and I had the choice ofshooting digital then.
But you know, I was still tryingto stick to the idea of
(04:23):
shooting on film and you know,and there are certain directors
like Chris, nolan and Tarantinoand some of them, you know, they
still just absolutely want toshoot on film I've sort of now
made.
You know, I've rounded the curveand I've shot a couple of
things on digital now and reallythe image quality is pretty
much there now and there is acertain ease to it and you don't
(04:45):
have to worry about thescratches happening on the
negative and so forth, but ofcourse you do have to worry
about something happening to thehard drive, but there is an
ease to it.
And also, the one thing that Ido like about digital, which I
can't tell you how many timesthere have been a case of, there
have been cases on shooting onfilm where you know we have a
scene going and even as we'reshooting I might give a
(05:08):
direction to an actor and we trysomething else while the film
is still rolling, and then youhave the camera operator say,
you know, raise their hand andsay, oh, we're about to run out
of film.
Well, whereas in digital youcan just keep, you know, for the
most part you can just keepshooting, you know.
And so there's an advantage,and also there's definitely
advantages in post production todigital.
(05:30):
But I still love the look offilm and, you know, maybe before
it's all over I'll shootsomething else on film, you know
, but it's definitely a newworld in production these days.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yeah, and I'm sure it's also very convenient to be
able to look at the footageright then and there as you're
filming, because If you shotsomething and then, when you
were doing it on film, you wouldhave to literally go Watch the
footage and then you'll say damnit, you know I miss this, so I
miss this detail, and now youhave to go back and reshoot it.
While you can catch it rightthen and there, when you're
(06:04):
doing it on digital, you can seean envidia village and you can
see what's going on.
And then, of course, you havethe opportunity instead of
saying we're gonna fix it inpost, which is was always the
thing that we used to say backin the day now you can actually
fix it on the spot, right.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Well, you can.
And the other thing is well,you can still make obviously
make adjustments in post interms of the look of the
lighting and so forth.
But the other thing you can donow is when you're looking at
the high definition monitor,what you see is what you get,
you know.
I mean, you're able to see whatthe lighting is doing without
(06:42):
having to imagine what thelighting is doing.
So there's an advantage in thatway as well.
But you can still obviously doa lot of tweaking and so forth
later on.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
That's wonderful.
So let's go back to thebeginning.
Obviously, you said justearlier that when you were a kid
, you were shooting on supereight, so what made you want to
be a director?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
For me growing up, as it was kind of a toss-up of two
things that I really loved.
I loved music and I was amusician, and I was a musician
for most of the way throughcollege.
But I also loved movies, youknow.
I mean, I mean it's some of myearliest memories of going to
the movies with my parents andyou know, and they would take me
to the old, you know Disneyfamily films, you know, with
(07:26):
Dean Jones and Kurt Russell.
You know those movies and thoseold Disney comedies and I love
them.
And then the big blockbusterthings like sound of music or
whatever, and it just, you know,I was overwhelmed by Cinema and
and the big screen and, youknow, having pictures tell a
story, and so I always had aLove for it.
(07:46):
And also the other thing, andyou wouldn't know it by the
movies I've made, I was also abig Horror movie fan when I was
a kid.
Yeah, I loved, and particularlythe British hammer horror
movies.
So with Christopher Lee andPeter Cushing, I love those
movies.
And so all my first littlesuper eight movies, they were
all just complete Gore-fest, youknow, it was all about blood
(08:08):
and guts and stuff, you know.
So, and I still, and in fact,one of the things I'm working on
right now is a horror movie andI, before I'm done, I'm going
to make a horror movie becausereally those are the movies that
made me want to be a directorin a weird way.
So, and I just, you know, astime went on, I just as my
interest in music, you know.
(08:28):
I mean music is sort of likeathletics, in that at a certain
point, when you reach a certainpoint, you know whether you're
going to be able to do itprofessionally or not.
You know, I mean, you knowwhether you're going to be able
to play basketball in the NBA,and you're also sort of figure
out as a musician Can I do thisprofessionally?
Am I good enough to be able toplay Either in a major symphony
(08:51):
or, you know, or play jazz witha group or whatever you're doing
, and at a certain point realizeno, probably not.
I mean, I don't know that I'mgood, I'm not that good.
And so, while I was trying tofigure out then, well, what,
what am I going to do, I justspent more and more time in the
theater department at my collegeand more, and started Taking
(09:14):
film classes there and shootinglittle movies, but were more, a
little more sophisticated thanmy blood and guts Super eight
movies, and and started writingscripts.
And that was the key thing wasthe writing.
I got a lot of encouragementfrom one of my professors about
a couple of scripts I'd writtenand then, you know, and it sort
of went from there and I justnever looked backwards.
(09:36):
I just, you know, I mean fromthe day that I got that
encouragement, like you shouldreally give this a shot.
I mean, it's just been headlonginto it for the last however
many years you know that, andit's been a lot of years at this
point.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
So it has been a lot of years and it's interesting
that your first movie was abouta dog and then you went on to do
movies with children and Iwould think that, from a
director's standpoint, those areprobably the hardest things to
do when you are starting outquote unquote as a director is
(10:09):
to direct animals and to directchildren.
What was it like for you whenyou got into your first and
second movie and third movie?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Well, you know, I mean, interestingly, I'd made
even before Skip.
I'd made a very small budgetindependent film even before
that and I'd shot as you hadmentioned in your intro, I'd
shot a lot of documentary stuff.
So all of that was goodtraining ground going into the
first quote major film, whichwas Skip.
And the training ground waswith the documentaries.
(10:40):
The training was thinking onyour feet, because if you're
shooting things in real time andin reality there is no take two
, you know.
And the other thing that Ilearned while I was shooting all
that documentary work was Iwould still cover scenes that
were happening in real life, butif the drama was happening in
(11:02):
front of me, I still would tryto cover it as you would.
A movie, you know, with closeups and trying to follow the
action and so forth, but doingit on the fly, you know as it's
happening.
And that was great training forbeing prepared for anything.
And so when it came to withSkip, when it came to working
(11:23):
with kids and animals, well, yousort of had to be prepared for
anything, because you know asmuch as well as a dog might be
trained for a movie, or as wellas a kid, you know, maybe an
experienced kid actor orwhatever.
You still never know what'sgoing to happen.
You know, because one day thekid is going to be trained.
You know, because one day thekid is tired and he just can't.
You know, he's just not there.
(11:43):
So you got to figure out a wayto make it happen.
And the same with the dog,because you know the funny thing
with animals and film most ofthe things they do it's food
based.
You know, it's like if they do,if they walk from here to there
, then they get a treat.
Or if they run across a field,then they get a treat.
Well, at a certain point, youknow they aren't hungry anymore.
(12:07):
And then that's when it gets.
Tricky is when the treats don'tmean anything to them.
So it's all about thinking onyour feet.
But the key to that and I thinkthe key to that movie working
was, a we had a really goodscript and B the actors.
There was a great cast ofactors, but they understood the
(12:27):
complications of what we weredoing.
They understood that, okay, wegot to wait on the dog to get
hungry again.
Or okay, the kid needs to takea nap.
You know, because he's cranky.
So you know, it took a realsort of group effort to make
that happen.
And I was there to sort ofwrangle it all together.
I mean because directing to agreat degree as you I'm sure you
(12:49):
know it's like wrangling cats,you know, because the cats will
run off in all differentdirections, you got to get them
somehow in the same roomtogether.
I mean, that's kind of how itall started.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
And I guess it also helps that you know you're
involved many times in your ownprojects because you have
written the script.
You're also one of theproducers.
You know jumping forward to afilm like Ladder 49, which, of
course, is a way more dramatic,dealing with adult, professional
well, also the other ones wereprofessional actors but dealing
(13:20):
with big names like JohnTravolta and Joaquin Phoenix.
What was it like for you tomake that transition from
children, family fair tosomething which is dramatic,
powerful, emotionally impactful,like Ladder 49, that people
still look at it as one of theoriginal movies about
(13:42):
firefighters, that still standstoday as one of the ones that
people look for when they wantto see something like that?
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Well, thanks, alex.
I mean the thing to me it's allabout storytelling.
You know, whether you'retelling a story of a boy and his
dog, or, in the case of TuckerBelasting, whether you're
telling a story about a familywho's immortal, or, in the case
of Ladder 49, these firefighterstrying to save one of their own
, which is Joaquin's character,gets trapped in a burning
(14:10):
building that we look back overhis life.
It's all storytelling, you know.
And the wrinkle in Ladder 49,whereas, like with Skip, the
wrinkle was the dog, neverknowing how exactly the dog's
going to behave Well, in Ladder49, it was the fire, because all
the fire that you see in themovie, it's all real.
I mean, there was no.
At the time we shot that,digital work wasn't
(14:33):
sophisticated enough to be ableto put fire in those settings,
so we had to have real fire allthe time.
The actors they were highlytrained in their jobs, which, by
the way, ended up reallyworking for the characters of
the movie, because they went tothe fire academy, including
Joaquin and Travolta, and so bythe time we actually shot the
(14:53):
movie, they were practicallytrained well enough to work for
the fire department.
And we had to do that becausewe were sticking them in the
fire and if something had gonewrong, which at any time they
had to know how to getthemselves out of it and how to
save themselves.
So that was the dog in thatmovie, was the fire.
It was really, you know,dangerous and had us all you
(15:16):
know, on edge all the time, butat the end of the day, though,
it was just telling a story andthe rest of it was just a matter
of putting the shots together.
I'm going to jump ahead for asecond, but it's to your point.
When I made this movie, theWater Horse for Sony, it
involved a ton of digitaleffects.
I mean more digital effectsthan I'd ever worked with.
(15:37):
I mean, I think there wassomething like 1,200,.
You know visual effects shots inthe film, and you know, when I
went into it, I had a greatconversation with this fellow
named Joe Leteri, who was ourvisual effects supervisor for
that film.
Now, joe, you would know,because Joe is also the person
that runs Weta Digital down inNew Zealand for Peter Jackson,
(15:59):
and Joe has a string of Oscarson his desk.
He did, you know, he did allthe Lord of the Rings movies and
he did King Kong with Peter andhe did Jurassic Park, going
back to Spielberg, and so Joe islike the guru of visual effects
.
And Joe gave me the greatesttip I think I've ever gotten,
because when you're doing thesevisual effects movies, it might
(16:20):
be easy to get overwhelmed withthe scope of everything you're
doing.
And he said to me one day.
We're sitting on the set and hegoes.
You know, jay, we make thesethings one shot at a time, and
that was just like the most.
It's so simple.
But it just completely put meat ease Because I stopped
worrying about the hundreds andhundreds and hundreds of shots
(16:42):
that I had to get with visualeffects.
It was just one shot at a time,and when you focus that way,
well then suddenly it's notoverwhelmed, you know so.
But anyway, it was that similarapproach to the latter 49,
which is, yeah, we're going tobe doing a lot of crazy stuff in
this, but it's one shot at atime, you know.
So that's how we approached it.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Well, you must have had so many memorable moments
being on set in so manydifferent countries, settings,
circumstances.
Is there any specific memorythat stands out to you when you
were on set and you had acertain feeling like this is it,
I've made one of my best workhere?
(17:23):
Or any relationship that youhad with an actor in a talent
where there was magic happening?
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Well, I think, you know I mean probably and I've
loved working with all theactors I've worked with, and
I've had the great fortune ofworking with some really good
ones over over all the differentmovies, so a lot of people who
have Oscars on their desk butworking with Joaquin was really
special and it was every singleday exciting, because I haven't
(17:51):
met, and I doubt that I everwill meet, another actor that's
as committed to his craft thathe is, and you know, he just,
and he never lets up.
You know, it's like there isn'ta day where, oh, he's a little
off.
That day it's just not going tohappen with him.
And so, therefore, because he'sso prepared and he's so
committed, you have to show upwith your A game too, all the
(18:15):
time.
And so I think that was, youknow, probably the most exciting
experience I'd had with anactor, but also one of the
memorable things happening on aset was with him, whereas, as I
was saying, the fire was reallydangerous stuff and no one got
injured on the move, not a, noteven a turn of an ankle.
(18:36):
I mean, we were really luckythat no one got injured.
However, there was one shot andone day, and I'll never forget
it, because it scared the crapout of me was Joaquin was is at
the beginning of the movie.
If you see the movie you'll seethere's this big explosion in
this building and the floorcollapses underneath Joaquin and
(18:58):
he slides down and falls like anumber of floors.
Well, you know, obviously thatwas on a set and the floor
collapse was all a mechanicalthing.
You know where the floor wouldgo at different stages.
But as he's sliding down on thefloor collapses, all of this
burning material falls.
But it's supposed to fall afterhe goes down into the hole.
(19:23):
But something happened andthere was some misfire.
No pun intended, but when hewas sliding, all the fire came
down right on top of and if youwatch Really closely in that
sequence, you'll see that hisjacket on his back is on fire
and you'll also see this one bigchunk Flaming.
(19:45):
Something lands right by hisface and I'm talking about
inches from his face, and so andI'll tell you another
interesting thing about thatthat was one of the last shots
we did on the entire film, so wealmost burned walking up on the
very last day of shooting, butfortunately he never even knew
he was on fire, because when heslides down into the hole.
(20:06):
There were like three actualfire fighters down there to just
put him out immediately and hedidn't even know that he was on
fire.
But that was a certainly amemorable Moment.
And the other one I think Icould think of was Only because
it's a shot for people who likethe movie it was, it's a shot
that really moves people was atthe end of my dark skip.
(20:29):
We have this scene where theold skip, this old dog, he is
going to get up on the bed thathe always would sleep on with
when the when his Boy was a boyand and now he's he's grown, and
at the very end of the moviethe dog goes to the bed and he's
trying to get up on it, as healways did, but he's too old and
(20:49):
arthritic.
So then Kevin Bacon has to comeout and pick him up and put him
on the bed.
You know it.
Just, everybody just ballstheir eyes out.
You know when, at that scene.
Well, that scene almost didn'thappen because, as I was talking
about, you know, with dogs it'sit's very.
You know, dogs can usually onlydo as the trainer would told me
(21:10):
.
You know they can usually onlyeither do one trick or two
tricks at most at a time,Because the rest of it is too
confusing for them and and theyknow if they, okay, if I do the
one trick, I'll get a treat.
If I did the second trick, I'llget a treat, but that's about
it.
Well, in that shot the dog hadto do like three or four things.
It had to walk in this reallyslow sort of crippled way, and
(21:35):
that's one trick.
It had to get up to the bed andput its paw up on the bed.
That's two tricks.
That it had to scratch, like itcould, you know, like it was
trying to get up.
That's three tricks.
And then it had to turn aroundand look at Kevin Bacon when he
was gonna come and pick him andput him on top of.
So it was like four or fivetricks and we almost didn't get
(21:58):
it.
I mean, we just kept shootingand shooting and shooting and
shooting and finally, producer,you know, kind of, put his hand
on my back and he goes.
Yeah, I don't think it's gonnawork.
Let's, let's rethink it.
You know, I think he goes.
I just, you guys, see how, whatyou're going for and I know
what it's, but it's just notworking and we're gonna be here
all Day.
So you got to move on and Isaid can we just try one more
(22:21):
time?
Just one more time.
And on that last time he did itperfectly.
It's just as you see in themovie.
That's what happened was onthat very last time.
So those are two kind of likebig memories I have on shooting.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
What an incredible backstory.
Oh, my goodness, now I get tothink about it when I watch it
again and I think about wow,this actually was the last.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Last shot at it, the last shot.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
That is incredible.
So tell me, jay, what is nextfor you, because I know you are
always involved in a lot ofamazing projects and, as it
happens in our business, sometake off, some did not take off
because of what's going on, butwhat is it that is driving you
right now?
What are you passionate about?
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Well, as I told you earlier, I've written and it's
not when I say horror movie,it's not Texas Chainsaw Massacre
or anything like that, it'smore of a psychological horror
movie.
But I do have a horror moviethat I've written that I really
want to do that.
We were actually just about tostart casting when all of this
business stay at home businesshappened, so I'm hoping that's
(23:24):
something we'll pick back up onafter this is all over.
It's called You're Not Real, sothat's something that I'm
really excited to do.
And then I've got two truestories that I'm working on.
One is with my old friend,kevin Bacon, who I seem to keep
coming back and working withover the years, and Kevin and I
are working on this true storyof a.
(23:45):
It was a homeless man living inNashville like, literally
living under a bridge or freewaybridge, and he had moved to
Nashville like so many, like somany do out here who want to be
movie stars or whatever.
He had moved to Nashvillebecause he wanted to be a
country and Western star, butinstead he got addicted to drugs
(24:06):
and he just his life just wentabout as bad as it could
possibly go, but he neverstopped playing music, like,
even if it was on the street andhe never stopped writing songs.
Well, lo and behold, he ends upwriting a number one country
song.
I mean, the odds of thathappening are just astronomical,
(24:26):
you know, and anyway.
So I'm working on that storywith Kevin.
And then the other one that I'mworking on as a true story is
about Brian Epstein, and I don'tknow if you know that name at
all, but Brian Epstein was theyoung man who both discovered
and then was the manager of theBeatles.
But he also had a reallyinteresting and even tragic life
(24:47):
.
I mean, at the height ofBeatlemania he was 32 years old
and he died of what is likelydrug overdose at age 32.
And so it's both this amazingstory of this young man finding
these other young men and takingover the world.
But yet it still couldn't savehim, you know, given some of the
(25:10):
other things going on in hislife.
And that's the movie, becausethere's a lot of things that
went on in his life that nobodyknew about and it led to a
tragic ending.
But that's another one I'mworking on.
So there's a couple of truestories and then the other thing
that I've done, and it willagain once our business starts
up again.
It'll be published as alongtime friend of mine, as a
(25:32):
fellow named Steve Niles who'skind of a rock star in the comic
book world, and Steve and Ihave written a large format
graphic novel.
It's a 122-page graphic novelthat is going to be published
once we're able to publish it,and we're doing that through
John Carpenter's and his wifeSandy's company, storm King, and
(25:55):
Storm King is publishing it.
But it's something that notonly are we doing it as a
graphic novel but then we wantto turn it into a television
series as well.
So that's another thing I'vebeen working on.
So oddly, given that we're alltrapped here at home, there's a
certain part of the work that Ican still do because a lot of it
(26:16):
is in the writing stage rightnow.
So doing a lot of writing workand staying busy that way but
going stir crazy at the sametime.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah, aren't we all?
Well, I call this the winterseason, but at the same time,
it's during the winter that weget to prepare and we get to be
our most creative, uninterrupted, because we can do Zoom
meetings.
We can do a lot.
We don't have to run around intraffic and go to talk to people
.
We can do it over Zoom.
That we're doing right now inour interview.
So in closing, jay, is thereany word of advice that you
(26:48):
would like to give to anybodywho is a listener, who is
aspiring to be a filmmaker or atelevision maker or any type of
content creator?
What would be your biggestwords of wisdom that you would
like to impart in this beautifulconversation we just had?
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Well, I'm going to throw two things out there, and
one of them I'm going to stealfrom the fellow who said it to
me and I'll say it yet again.
I said it earlier you makethese things one shot at a time,
don't be overwhelmed by stuff.
It's one shot at a time.
That's one thing.
The other thing is and this maybe the most important thing and
(27:26):
I talk to young filmmakersabout it all the time because
all of us, we all get anxiousand we want everything to happen
all at once.
And the thing I tell them isit's not a sprint, it's a
marathon.
And then you've got to bewilling to go the distance, and
it's not.
If it happens overnight, wellthen, hallelujah, but it almost
(27:46):
never does, and it's a marathon.
And if you're not ready to runthe marathon, then don't get
involved with it, because it's along, long and winding road, as
the Beatles song said.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Longer.
I love that.
That has been such a greatconversation, Jay, and in
parting with you before we part,where can the listeners find
you?
Do you have any Instagramhandles, any sites that you
would like us to share with themso that they can look you up
and get to hear more of yourgreat words of wisdom and keep
(28:20):
up with your work?
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Well, I'm on Instagram, which usually is me
posting pictures of my dog, butthen I'm also on Twitter, where
I'm usually griping about somepolitical thing or another, but
every now and then it driftsinto movies.
But yeah, anybody can find meon that, and it's Dog Skip on
both of them.
I'm Dog Skip on Twitter and I'mDog Skip on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Thank you for listening to this week's episode
of the Heart of Show Business.
If you enjoyed it, please shareit with a friend.
You can also subscribe, rateand review the show on your
favorite podcast player.
If you have any questions orcomments or feedback for us, you
can reach me directly attheheartofshowbusinesscom.
(29:06):
And don't forget to leave it acomment.
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