Unlock the full potential of your building and remodeling projects as we dive into the collaborative spirit that can make your work shine. Together with industry experts, I, Chris Kirby, will guide you through the essentials of crafting strong partnerships with interior designers and fellow contractors. These alliances are not just about expanding your business—they're about creating a symphony of design and functionality that will leave clients in awe. Our Shop Talk is the real deal for hands-on advice, where we get into the nitty-gritty of tile installation, challenges with corners and edges, and the debate over tile sizes—all to polish your skills and keep you ahead in the competitive world of home construction.
Ever wondered how to master the art of estimating tile quantities or stay abreast of the enthralling design trends sweeping through homes? Look no further. We zero in on the must-knows for ordering tiles, with a focus on avoiding the pitfalls of underestimating and embracing the beauty of surplus for those intricate patterns and future fixes. Artisanal tiles like Zellige are stealing the spotlight, and we'll explore how their distinctiveness can breathe life into any space. You'll emerge from this episode with a profound appreciation for the character these tiles add to a room and the expertise to educate clients about the charm of irregular edges and textured finishes. Join us for a journey through the transformative world of home building and remodeling, where each tile and partnership lays the groundwork for success.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Home Building and Remodeling Show.
Let's go.
Welcome everybody to the HomeBuilding and Remodeling Show.
My name is Chris Kirby and I'llbe your host.
(00:21):
I am the owner of threeconstruction companies on the
Alabama Gulf Coast.
The show is about residentialconstruction.
We're going to cover topics ofhome building and remodeling.
Are you thinking of doing aremodel or building a home?
Are you a contractor looking toimprove your knowledge base or
grow your business?
Have you ever done a remodelproject or built a home?
(00:42):
There were so many things youwish you knew or that you could
have done differently during theprocess.
Then this show is for you.
We break down the process ofbuilding and remodeling and how
to have the best results duringyour project.
Whether you're a DIYer lookingfor tips, someone looking to
hire a contractor to do aproject, or a contractor looking
(01:04):
to expand your knowledge baseor your business, welcome aboard
.
Glad to have you.
Stay tuned.
We kick off the show with mythoughts on home building and
remodeling.
I'll share best practices andtalk about some of our
experiences in business and outin the field.
These shared thoughts andlessons learned are meant to
help you on your very ownjourney.
(01:25):
Let's go.
Even before then, interiordesigners were our friends.
They gave us work, they helpedus with design.
And again, as an installer ortile setter, you may not always
know what looks pretty or beable to help the client navigate
selections, and that's crucial.
And that's where those interiordesigners come in.
(01:48):
They help pick out the material, they work with you on layout,
they work with you on design.
You make recommendations from acontractor's perspective, but
they really help handle a lot oftimes ordering and providing
material because they're makingselections.
So having relationships withinterior designers, especially
(02:09):
when you're first starting outbecause interior designers are
always looking for goodcontractors to partner with
Trust me when I tell you thatinterior designers do not want
to be contractors, even thoughsome of them end up in that
project management role justbecause they have an established
relationship with the client,that doesn't mean they want to
be contractors.
(02:29):
So they're looking for goodinstallers to work with.
So get to know some localinterior designers, interior
design firms especially.
Number three would be developers, okay, and we'll say
contractors as well.
Because if you're just anindividual contractor or just
starting out, you're anindividual tile installer, it's
(02:52):
good to have relationships withother contractors because, just
like we have a home buildingside where I may hire a tile sub
to install the tile in thathome, because our remodeling
crews and our remodelingcompanies, they may be busy,
they may not be able to get toit, so they may not be able to.
Our tile crews may not be ableto get to the work.
(03:14):
And then you're going to needyou've got a connection with a
builder, you've got a connectioneven with an architect or a
real estate developer.
You become known as their tileinstaller or who they would
recommend to install tile.
So developing relationshipswith those contractors home
builders, remodeling companiesand getting that work from them.
(03:39):
The contractor may be a primecontractor and get hired to do a
total bathroom or a large scoperemodel and they're going to
sub out to individuals for paint, for trim, for tile.
So just getting to know othercontractors.
Don't look at it as competition.
Yes, a tile installer may beyour direct competition, but
(04:02):
also you can't take on all thework by yourself.
So having somebody, a goodreferral partner, is always key.
So make friends with otherdevelopers, builders,
contractors.
They can be your go-to.
And now we move into Shop Talk.
It's the portion of the showwhere I bring in a co-host and
(04:22):
we cover trending topics in homebuilding and remodeling.
Hope you enjoy.
Let's go.
In my opinion, even for ourguys, that's where you see the
most chipping.
The most cracks is in thosecorners of niches and anywhere
you said mitering, but anywherethat you have a 45 on a shower
(04:44):
wall, that's where I see themost mistakes that too is guys
just pumping it out instead oftaking their time and polishing
that edge off to make it lookcleaner yeah, and so there's a
way to to actually, you know ifit, if it does chip on those
edges and stuff, there's ways toclean that up.
Is what you're saying?
(05:04):
Is that where you're going to?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
minor chips Nothing crazy.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah, yeah, or you need to cut.
You need to recut it if it'stoo chipped.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
And then you can get attachments for your drills and
whatnot to clean it off too.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, what's your favorite type of tile to install
?
I like larger format tile.
You think it's easier, or is itjust it's quicker, or what?
Why do you like to do thelarger format?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, it's not.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
There's more detail in the smaller.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
It takes a lot more work.
Okay, so if you're doing aSubway versus a 12 by 48, which
one would you rather do?
12 by 48?
Yeah, I, you rather do 12 by 48?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yeah, I don't know that stuff's a pain in the butt.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
It depends on where the application is right, so
like if you're doing a wholehome.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
And a lot of people, I notice, just want some money.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
I don't know, I got that on camera.
But yeah, so the?
What do we use the 12 by 24s,right?
Would you rather do 12 by 24 orsmall?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yeah, 12 by 24.
All day, all day why?
It's just easier to install.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Yeah, it ain't about looks, it ain't about nothing
else.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
It moves.
You move a little faster and Ijust tile work gives me anxiety,
so the quicker I can be donewith it the better off I am.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yeah, what about uh like glass tile and stuff?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
like that man.
So the only glass tile I'vereally have done is like back
splashes.
Yeah, is it crack easy.
Oh man, it's you.
You have to take your time withit.
Yeah, yeah, and a lot of timebecause it's If you chip the
back coating on, that stuff iswhere it shows it starts to mess
(06:50):
up.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I got you All right.
What about mosaics?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Nah, they're okay.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
You just got to.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
When you're cutting, take your time and make sure
everything's Well those are theones man, like if you don't know
what you're doing there, likethe penny tile especially, that
come in the sheets.
You can see those lines, dude,if you're not good at what you
do.
And always on the penny tile,hex tiles, that come in those
sheets.
Man, I always look to see if Ican see you know your lines
(07:20):
where your sheets meet.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I always look for those lines, that's one thing I
look to when I go look at ashower.
Yeah, if I'm looking at theshower floors to see if I can
see the growlons, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
And then when you're installing tile, one of the more
important things is what'sbehind it, and we always use
Schluter as our waterproofingand the KERDI bands and stuff
like that.
And we've been doing Schluterfor a while now.
It seems like it's getting alittle more expensive every year
after year and we've started totry, we're going to start
(07:54):
trying some differentwaterproofing materials.
But when it comes to looks, thetile matters.
But when it comes to actuallyprotecting against moisture and
things like that, how importantis that using a good product
like a Schluter?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
I mean, it's easy application.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
It makes life easier on the installer.
There's less you know.
I mean it's just.
It's just a lot faster tempothan you know putting up hardy
or do a rock and you knowbuilding out your mud pan and
then red guarding and thenwaiting.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
So that's an old school and I think you know
people still do it.
But, uh, putting out the mudpan, mud bed, whatever you want
to call it.
But you're actually at thatpoint.
You were actually building up apan right.
You were making sure and thiswas out of mortar and cement,
you were making sure that it wassloped properly.
You had to wait for it to setup.
(08:51):
And now we use the Schluter kit.
But we do these pre-made pansright and they come in different
sizes, but they're pre-sloped,they're pre-sloped and
everything, so you walk in, youset your pan and it's done.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Instead of walking in pre-sloping, installing your
vinyl, wrap your PVC vinyl, thenactually doing your last mud
bed, then you're ready to putyour Durock on the wall.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
There's, you know.
So, timeframe wise, it made alot of sense for us but also,
like our, for our crews.
You know, those foam boards,versus Durock and sheet rock,
are more lightweight, you know,one person carry two, three,
four, five of those things andit's less labor intensive.
But the timeline so when you'relooking at installing tile
(09:46):
right, we're not talking aboutthe whole bathroom but let's
just talk about a shower.
For us right now, a goodtimeframe would be what?
For start to finish?
Yeah, start to finish, and Iknow it matters like if you're
just doing a tub hop-up, I'mtalking shower.
So Shower, start and finish,tear out waterproofing.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
I mean you're a week and a couple days, depending on
the size.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Yeah, and just running through that's demo,
that's reframing as needed.
You know, if they need ponywalls, you're building that out.
Then you go into yourwaterproofing stage right now.
So you're going to install your, your sleuter kit, basically,
and then you're going towaterproof it and then you're
going to come in and startsetting your tile.
(10:33):
So you're saying that processthere a good time frame would be
a week, maybe a week and acouple days.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Oh well, you'll demo and then get everything prepped
and level in a day.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
If it takes that long and then the following day you
come in and you set your pan andwaterproof, you can do all that
in one day.
Got it Okay, I heard to you,know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, letting it set up and having a you know right,
taking a couple of days Okay.
Having a you know right, takinga couple of days Okay.
And then let's talk aboutexpectations from the client's
perspective right, when it comesto tile.
So this is where a lot ofpeople catch hell, and we do
sometimes.
We've gotten better justbecause the quality of our work
has improved over the years, butthere are some some people you
(11:18):
just you can't please everycustomer, but tile is a big one,
because if they have a problemwith your tile work and you're
talking if you didn't get enough, or if there's no more tile,
like you finished the job butthere's really not any left and
they have too many issues I meanyou could be ripping out and
(11:39):
ordering all new tile, right?
You know what I mean.
And especially we were talkingabout it with the designers that
special order tile.
If you don't get at least 20%more, then you're doing it wrong
.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Oh yeah, because if you mismeasure on tile and you
buy a specialty, yeah, and thenyou're short, a couple runs,
yeah, I mean yeah, and then youtry to get and you won't get the
same tone or finish becauseeach run of that tile has a
(12:11):
different shade.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Well, and that's what she was saying, some, and you
know, even trying to get it fromthe same spot, same distributor
, where you might have onemanufacturer that has 10
different locations, but evenstuff that's at each different
location could be different.
It could be called the same, itcould be patterned the same,
but what you're saying is therecould be a slight variation in
(12:35):
tone, and that just it's.
We've seen it.
Yeah, it's very visible, and soyou want to.
What's your rule of thumb whenit comes to estimating for tile?
Speaker 2 (12:45):
So I round up.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, you say it.
Let's just say you've got 85square feet wall tile.
What are you?
What are you ordering?
What do you want Jan to orderfor us?
120.
120.
So even more, I mean yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, I'm making sure you know what I mean.
I mean, yeah, I'm making sureyou know.
I mean not just that you got anaccount, not everybody's
perfect, so you're on miscuts.
Yep, you got that way.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
So, and depending on how they want you to install it,
you know, depending on thelayout, design Yep Layout.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I mean you you'll work in so key considerations
when estimating your tile.
Miscuts okay, a layout okay,having, even if you install it
perfectly and ordered the rightamount.
What happens when later and itmay not be a warranty thing, but
they walk on a piece and itcracks right or they drop or hit
(13:40):
it always?
Speaker 2 (13:41):
like after you finish the job, you want to give that
homeowner what's you know, likethe yeah, this is and be like
here, keep it, put it upsomewhere, just in case
something happens, even if itlooks great.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Who knows, in a couple weeks or even a year
later, you get a crack pieceright.
At least you have that samebatch, you have that extra, okay
, uh, and look, there's gonna bemiscuts.
Not that you know, we're allperfect in installing tiles, so
there are gonna be miscuts.
You're gonna walk up, you'regonna get your measurements,
(14:12):
you're gonna go to the saw andyou're gonna cut.
You're gonna come back and belike shoot, I messed up, so.
So that's part of that miscut,yeah, um, but also like when
you're doing your patterns, likewhat, what you were saying,
right, if you've got to cut thatbad boy in half, if you've got
to cut a certain amount off ofit?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Heron bone, if they want, you know, like a heron
bone pattern of yeah, chevron,you know you get into a lot of
waste.
Yeah, you know your starts and.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
So if there's a different pattern and it's not
just straight runs or somethingyou're saying, get even a little
more.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Right, so I try to make that.
You know.
Get that info out of thecustomer.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Now we're going to move into the portion of the
show where we talk interiordesign.
We're going to bring in aninterior designer and we're
going to talk trending designand products.
Hope you enjoy.
Let's go.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Immediate reaction is no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah, and I've noticed that you know, every
year Sherwin comes out withtheir color of the year and
rarely is it a neutral.
Rarely, rarely is it a neutral.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
It's a lot like fashion you have to have
something that drives yeah,drives the market to change and
be more unique.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
So, yes, color drenching dopamine color.
I swore I'm going to use thatword all day long today.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Number one, color.
Yeah, got it In tile, what yougot for number two.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Next one we talked about this last time on our
podcast, but again it's justbecoming more and more prevalent
is handcrafted tiles.
So we talked about the Zelligetiles which you know.
All of those are hand-formed,hand-fired.
I mean, it's just amazingwhat's within them.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
But outside from hand-formed, you also have
undulated, which undulated justmeans the edges of it are a
little more handcrafted, but theface still might be a little
smooth.
So, and that's where you know,for the installer side, it's not
going to be even.
Every tile is a little bitdifferent, right?
And then what is it?
Undulated, undulated, okay, sothat just means that it's not
going to be a clean line, it'snot going to be cut smooth
straight across, correct, okay,all right.
So how do you balance that andmake sure the client is informed
when it comes to that as well,because sometimes they may think
they chipped it or they didn'tcut it even so, it's a little
(16:27):
sledge.
There you go Product knowledgeand letting them know what
they're getting as well, right?
You?
Speaker 3 (16:32):
always want to be informed.
No matter what you're buying,you want to be informed about
what you're eating.
So why aren't?
you informed about what you'regoing to put in your house.
It's going to be there foryears and years and years.
Absolutely.
As a designer, I really like tomake sure that I have the
knowledge I need, that I canconvey that to the client.
However, if you're out shoppingby yourself, you might not know
, and the good thing to do isalways get more than at least
(16:52):
two samples.
I prefer four to five at most.
Sure, that way I can see themaximum variation or movement.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Awesome.
So these handcrafted tiles also.
We're talking about clean linesand different things.
It may look a little bitdifferent, but also visually
right.
It's not going to be level oreven on the wall.
So some areas, yeah, there maybe some waves in it, but that's
for a purpose.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
It is Okay, got it, it's for a purpose.
It's another thing, too, thatyou have to remember.
When you're working with tileslike that that do not have a
true edge, when they're meetingup into something like a
Schluter that fits in thatpocket, or meeting up against a
bullnose, it will not bestraight.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Right.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Now, that's part of the beauty of it.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Absolutely.
If you understand it, yes, sandit.
But I love that because somepeople think so.
The difference is we get Idon't know what you call it.
It's not necessarilyhandcrafted, it's the pattern
tile that kind of meet at thefour corners.
They'll create a larger design,right, yeah, okay, that is not
(17:54):
this.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
No.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Okay, that's different.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
That is different.
Yes, so that's really a tilethat has a pattern matched.
Yeah, you're taking four tilesto make one pattern whole.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Right, right, yeah, and this is every tile can be
different.
In this situation, it does nothave pattern necessarily, it's
more just the edges of it thatare Right, and you do need an
installer who knows what they'redoing as well.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
I mean any tile.
You've got to have aknowledgeable installer.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Even these large format, where people seem like
they seem to think, because it'slarge, it should be easier.
No, it makes it worlds harder.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Not only for handling , but also knowing the
appropriate measurements andwhere to cut.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Right?
Well, and that's the thing.
Product knowledge is key as aninstaller, and we've been
talking about it with our teamand doing training, because if
you're new to this, anapprentice in the tile
installation world or a tilesetter, you know your coworker
(18:55):
or your crew leader may justhave tile there waiting for you
and may just have grout therewaiting for you and they say,
hey, listen, I need you to getthis installed.
Well, you got to ask questions.
Well, is that the type ofthinset?
Is that mortar?
Can it be used for this type oftile?
Is this sand?
Speaker 3 (19:08):
and run sand and grout.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Correct what I need, absolutely.
There are details that you gotto know as an installer and you
know you're talking aboutdifferent types of tile, but
there's different types of whenyou're spreading the mortar,
when you're back buttering.
Do you do it thicker?
Do you do it thinner?
Do you need more with largeformat?
(19:29):
There are so many details thatgo into the installation process
, much more than just the design, that I absolutely agree that
you have to have some productknowledge, even as a contractor.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Oh yeah, and even as a designer, I'll use an example.
It was a glass Chevron and theChevrons, this was 0.3
millimeters thin tile.
That is probably one of thethinnest tiles you can get.
It's also glass, so superdelicate.
Well, I got some schooling thatday, which I love, because I
brought over a certain kind ofgrout and it was a universal
grout.
Well, I got some schooling thatday, which I love, because I
brought over a certain kind ofgrout and it was a universal
(20:03):
grout.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Well, immediately he looks at me and he goes I hope
you kept the receipt, yeah, andI, you know, I didn't know why.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Thanks for joining us today.
As always, we are grateful forour listeners and your continued
support.
Please subscribe to our YouTubechannel.
Follow us on social media viaFacebook, instagram and TikTok.
Get more info at our website,wwwthehomebuildingshowcom.
And, as always, remember who weare the Home Building and
(20:34):
Remodeling Show.
Ciao.
The Home Building and Remodeling Show.
Let's go.
Welcome everybody to the HomeBuilding and Remodeling Show.
My name is Chris Kirby and I'llbe your host.
(00:21):
I am the owner of threeconstruction companies on the
Alabama Gulf Coast.
The show is about residentialconstruction.
We're going to cover topics ofhome building and remodeling.
Are you thinking of doing aremodel or building a home?
Are you a contractor looking toimprove your knowledge base or
grow your business?
Have you ever done a remodelproject or built a home?
(00:42):
There were so many things youwish you knew or that you could
have done differently during theprocess.
Then this show is for you.
We break down the process ofbuilding and remodeling and how
to have the best results duringyour project.
Whether you're a DIYer lookingfor tips, someone looking to
hire a contractor to do aproject, or a contractor looking
(01:04):
to expand your knowledge baseor your business, welcome aboard
.
Glad to have you.
Stay tuned.
We kick off the show with mythoughts on home building and
remodeling.
I'll share best practices andtalk about some of our
experiences in business and outin the field.
These shared thoughts andlessons learned are meant to
help you on your very ownjourney.
(01:25):
Let's go.
Even before then, interiordesigners were our friends.
They gave us work, they helpedus with design.
And again, as an installer ortile setter, you may not always
know what looks pretty or beable to help the client navigate
selections, and that's crucial.
And that's where those interiordesigners come in.
(01:48):
They help pick out the material, they work with you on layout,
they work with you on design.
You make recommendations from acontractor's perspective, but
they really help handle a lot oftimes ordering and providing
material because they're makingselections.
So having relationships withinterior designers, especially
(02:09):
when you're first starting outbecause interior designers are
always looking for goodcontractors to partner with
Trust me when I tell you thatinterior designers do not want
to be contractors, even thoughsome of them end up in that
project management role justbecause they have an established
relationship with the client,that doesn't mean they want to
be contractors.
(02:29):
So they're looking for goodinstallers to work with.
So get to know some localinterior designers, interior
design firms especially.
Number three would be developers, okay, and we'll say
contractors as well.
Because if you're just anindividual contractor or just
starting out, you're anindividual tile installer, it's
(02:52):
good to have relationships withother contractors because, just
like we have a home buildingside where I may hire a tile sub
to install the tile in thathome, because our remodeling
crews and our remodelingcompanies, they may be busy,
they may not be able to get toit, so they may not be able to.
Our tile crews may not be ableto get to the work.
(03:14):
And then you're going to needyou've got a connection with a
builder, you've got a connectioneven with an architect or a
real estate developer.
You become known as their tileinstaller or who they would
recommend to install tile.
So developing relationshipswith those contractors home
builders, remodeling companiesand getting that work from them.
(03:39):
The contractor may be a primecontractor and get hired to do a
total bathroom or a large scoperemodel and they're going to
sub out to individuals for paint, for trim, for tile.
So just getting to know othercontractors.
Don't look at it as competition.
Yes, a tile installer may beyour direct competition, but
(04:02):
also you can't take on all thework by yourself.
So having somebody, a goodreferral partner, is always key.
So make friends with otherdevelopers, builders,
contractors.
They can be your go-to.
And now we move into Shop Talk.
It's the portion of the showwhere I bring in a co-host and
(04:22):
we cover trending topics in homebuilding and remodeling.
Hope you enjoy.
Let's go.
In my opinion, even for ourguys, that's where you see the
most chipping.
The most cracks is in thosecorners of niches and anywhere
you said mitering, but anywherethat you have a 45 on a shower
(04:44):
wall, that's where I see themost mistakes that too is guys
just pumping it out instead oftaking their time and polishing
that edge off to make it lookcleaner yeah, and so there's a
way to to actually, you know ifit, if it does chip on those
edges and stuff, there's ways toclean that up.
Is what you're saying?
(05:04):
Is that where you're going to?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
minor chips Nothing crazy.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah, yeah, or you need to cut.
You need to recut it if it'stoo chipped.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
And then you can get attachments for your drills and
whatnot to clean it off too.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, what's your favorite type of tile to install
?
I like larger format tile.
You think it's easier, or is itjust it's quicker, or what?
Why do you like to do thelarger format?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, it's not.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
There's more detail in the smaller.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
It takes a lot more work.
Okay, so if you're doing aSubway versus a 12 by 48, which
one would you rather do?
12 by 48?
Yeah, I, you rather do 12 by 48?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yeah, I don't know that stuff's a pain in the butt.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
It depends on where the application is right, so
like if you're doing a wholehome.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
And a lot of people, I notice, just want some money.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
I don't know, I got that on camera.
But yeah, so the?
What do we use the 12 by 24s,right?
Would you rather do 12 by 24 orsmall?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yeah, 12 by 24.
All day, all day why?
It's just easier to install.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Yeah, it ain't about looks, it ain't about nothing
else.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
It moves.
You move a little faster and Ijust tile work gives me anxiety,
so the quicker I can be donewith it the better off I am.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yeah, what about uh like glass tile and stuff?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
like that man.
So the only glass tile I'vereally have done is like back
splashes.
Yeah, is it crack easy.
Oh man, it's you.
You have to take your time withit.
Yeah, yeah, and a lot of timebecause it's If you chip the
back coating on, that stuff iswhere it shows it starts to mess
(06:50):
up.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I got you All right.
What about mosaics?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Nah, they're okay.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
You just got to.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
When you're cutting, take your time and make sure
everything's Well those are theones man, like if you don't know
what you're doing there, likethe penny tile especially, that
come in the sheets.
You can see those lines, dude,if you're not good at what you
do.
And always on the penny tile,hex tiles, that come in those
sheets.
Man, I always look to see if Ican see you know your lines
(07:20):
where your sheets meet.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I always look for those lines, that's one thing I
look to when I go look at ashower.
Yeah, if I'm looking at theshower floors to see if I can
see the growlons, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
And then when you're installing tile, one of the more
important things is what'sbehind it, and we always use
Schluter as our waterproofingand the KERDI bands and stuff
like that.
And we've been doing Schluterfor a while now.
It seems like it's getting alittle more expensive every year
after year and we've started totry, we're going to start
(07:54):
trying some differentwaterproofing materials.
But when it comes to looks, thetile matters.
But when it comes to actuallyprotecting against moisture and
things like that, how importantis that using a good product
like a Schluter?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
I mean, it's easy application.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
It makes life easier on the installer.
There's less you know.
I mean it's just.
It's just a lot faster tempothan you know putting up hardy
or do a rock and you knowbuilding out your mud pan and
then red guarding and thenwaiting.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
So that's an old school and I think you know
people still do it.
But, uh, putting out the mudpan, mud bed, whatever you want
to call it.
But you're actually at thatpoint.
You were actually building up apan right.
You were making sure and thiswas out of mortar and cement,
you were making sure that it wassloped properly.
You had to wait for it to setup.
(08:51):
And now we use the Schluter kit.
But we do these pre-made pansright and they come in different
sizes, but they're pre-sloped,they're pre-sloped and
everything, so you walk in, youset your pan and it's done.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Instead of walking in pre-sloping, installing your
vinyl, wrap your PVC vinyl, thenactually doing your last mud
bed, then you're ready to putyour Durock on the wall.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
There's, you know.
So, timeframe wise, it made alot of sense for us but also,
like our, for our crews.
You know, those foam boards,versus Durock and sheet rock,
are more lightweight, you know,one person carry two, three,
four, five of those things andit's less labor intensive.
But the timeline so when you'relooking at installing tile
(09:46):
right, we're not talking aboutthe whole bathroom but let's
just talk about a shower.
For us right now, a goodtimeframe would be what?
For start to finish?
Yeah, start to finish, and Iknow it matters like if you're
just doing a tub hop-up, I'mtalking shower.
So Shower, start and finish,tear out waterproofing.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
I mean you're a week and a couple days, depending on
the size.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Yeah, and just running through that's demo,
that's reframing as needed.
You know, if they need ponywalls, you're building that out.
Then you go into yourwaterproofing stage right now.
So you're going to install your, your sleuter kit, basically,
and then you're going towaterproof it and then you're
going to come in and startsetting your tile.
(10:33):
So you're saying that processthere a good time frame would be
a week, maybe a week and acouple days.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Oh well, you'll demo and then get everything prepped
and level in a day.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
If it takes that long and then the following day you
come in and you set your pan andwaterproof, you can do all that
in one day.
Got it Okay, I heard to you,know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, letting it set up and having a you know right,
taking a couple of days Okay.
Having a you know right, takinga couple of days Okay.
And then let's talk aboutexpectations from the client's
perspective right, when it comesto tile.
So this is where a lot ofpeople catch hell, and we do
sometimes.
We've gotten better justbecause the quality of our work
has improved over the years, butthere are some some people you
(11:18):
just you can't please everycustomer, but tile is a big one,
because if they have a problemwith your tile work and you're
talking if you didn't get enough, or if there's no more tile,
like you finished the job butthere's really not any left and
they have too many issues I meanyou could be ripping out and
(11:39):
ordering all new tile, right?
You know what I mean.
And especially we were talkingabout it with the designers that
special order tile.
If you don't get at least 20%more, then you're doing it wrong
.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Oh yeah, because if you mismeasure on tile and you
buy a specialty, yeah, and thenyou're short, a couple runs,
yeah, I mean yeah, and then youtry to get and you won't get the
same tone or finish becauseeach run of that tile has a
(12:11):
different shade.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Well, and that's what she was saying, some, and you
know, even trying to get it fromthe same spot, same distributor
, where you might have onemanufacturer that has 10
different locations, but evenstuff that's at each different
location could be different.
It could be called the same, itcould be patterned the same,
but what you're saying is therecould be a slight variation in
(12:35):
tone, and that just it's.
We've seen it.
Yeah, it's very visible, and soyou want to.
What's your rule of thumb whenit comes to estimating for tile?
Speaker 2 (12:45):
So I round up.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, you say it.
Let's just say you've got 85square feet wall tile.
What are you?
What are you ordering?
What do you want Jan to orderfor us?
120.
120.
So even more, I mean yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, I'm making sure you know what I mean.
I mean, yeah, I'm making sureyou know.
I mean not just that you got anaccount, not everybody's
perfect, so you're on miscuts.
Yep, you got that way.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
So, and depending on how they want you to install it,
you know, depending on thelayout, design Yep Layout.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I mean you you'll work in so key considerations
when estimating your tile.
Miscuts okay, a layout okay,having, even if you install it
perfectly and ordered the rightamount.
What happens when later and itmay not be a warranty thing, but
they walk on a piece and itcracks right or they drop or hit
(13:40):
it always?
Speaker 2 (13:41):
like after you finish the job, you want to give that
homeowner what's you know, likethe yeah, this is and be like
here, keep it, put it upsomewhere, just in case
something happens, even if itlooks great.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Who knows, in a couple weeks or even a year
later, you get a crack pieceright.
At least you have that samebatch, you have that extra, okay
, uh, and look, there's gonna bemiscuts.
Not that you know, we're allperfect in installing tiles, so
there are gonna be miscuts.
You're gonna walk up, you'regonna get your measurements,
(14:12):
you're gonna go to the saw andyou're gonna cut.
You're gonna come back and belike shoot, I messed up, so.
So that's part of that miscut,yeah, um, but also like when
you're doing your patterns, likewhat, what you were saying,
right, if you've got to cut thatbad boy in half, if you've got
to cut a certain amount off ofit?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Heron bone, if they want, you know, like a heron
bone pattern of yeah, chevron,you know you get into a lot of
waste.
Yeah, you know your starts and.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
So if there's a different pattern and it's not
just straight runs or somethingyou're saying, get even a little
more.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Right, so I try to make that.
You know.
Get that info out of thecustomer.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Now we're going to move into the portion of the
show where we talk interiordesign.
We're going to bring in aninterior designer and we're
going to talk trending designand products.
Hope you enjoy.
Let's go.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Immediate reaction is no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah, and I've noticed that you know, every
year Sherwin comes out withtheir color of the year and
rarely is it a neutral.
Rarely, rarely is it a neutral.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
It's a lot like fashion you have to have
something that drives yeah,drives the market to change and
be more unique.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
So, yes, color drenching dopamine color.
I swore I'm going to use thatword all day long today.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Number one, color.
Yeah, got it In tile, what yougot for number two.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Next one we talked about this last time on our
podcast, but again it's justbecoming more and more prevalent
is handcrafted tiles.
So we talked about the Zelligetiles which you know.
All of those are hand-formed,hand-fired.
I mean, it's just amazingwhat's within them.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
But outside from hand-formed, you also have
undulated, which undulated justmeans the edges of it are a
little more handcrafted, but theface still might be a little
smooth.
So, and that's where you know,for the installer side, it's not
going to be even.
Every tile is a little bitdifferent, right?
And then what is it?
Undulated, undulated, okay, sothat just means that it's not
going to be a clean line, it'snot going to be cut smooth
straight across, correct, okay,all right.
So how do you balance that andmake sure the client is informed
when it comes to that as well,because sometimes they may think
they chipped it or they didn'tcut it even so, it's a little
(16:27):
sledge.
There you go Product knowledgeand letting them know what
they're getting as well, right?
You?
Speaker 3 (16:32):
always want to be informed.
No matter what you're buying,you want to be informed about
what you're eating.
So why aren't?
you informed about what you'regoing to put in your house.
It's going to be there foryears and years and years.
Absolutely.
As a designer, I really like tomake sure that I have the
knowledge I need, that I canconvey that to the client.
However, if you're out shoppingby yourself, you might not know
, and the good thing to do isalways get more than at least
(16:52):
two samples.
I prefer four to five at most.
Sure, that way I can see themaximum variation or movement.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Awesome.
So these handcrafted tiles also.
We're talking about clean linesand different things.
It may look a little bitdifferent, but also visually
right.
It's not going to be level oreven on the wall.
So some areas, yeah, there maybe some waves in it, but that's
for a purpose.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
It is Okay, got it, it's for a purpose.
It's another thing, too, thatyou have to remember.
When you're working with tileslike that that do not have a
true edge, when they're meetingup into something like a
Schluter that fits in thatpocket, or meeting up against a
bullnose, it will not bestraight.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Right.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Now, that's part of the beauty of it.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Absolutely.
If you understand it, yes, sandit.
But I love that because somepeople think so.
The difference is we get Idon't know what you call it.
It's not necessarilyhandcrafted, it's the pattern
tile that kind of meet at thefour corners.
They'll create a larger design,right, yeah, okay, that is not
(17:54):
this.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
No.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Okay, that's different.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
That is different.
Yes, so that's really a tilethat has a pattern matched.
Yeah, you're taking four tilesto make one pattern whole.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Right, right, yeah, and this is every tile can be
different.
In this situation, it does nothave pattern necessarily, it's
more just the edges of it thatare Right, and you do need an
installer who knows what they'redoing as well.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
I mean any tile.
You've got to have aknowledgeable installer.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Even these large format, where people seem like
they seem to think, because it'slarge, it should be easier.
No, it makes it worlds harder.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Not only for handling , but also knowing the
appropriate measurements andwhere to cut.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Right?
Well, and that's the thing.
Product knowledge is key as aninstaller, and we've been
talking about it with our teamand doing training, because if
you're new to this, anapprentice in the tile
installation world or a tilesetter, you know your coworker
(18:55):
or your crew leader may justhave tile there waiting for you
and may just have grout therewaiting for you and they say,
hey, listen, I need you to getthis installed.
Well, you got to ask questions.
Well, is that the type ofthinset?
Is that mortar?
Can it be used for this type oftile?
Is this sand?
Speaker 3 (19:08):
and run sand and grout.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Correct what I need, absolutely.
There are details that you gotto know as an installer and you
know you're talking aboutdifferent types of tile, but
there's different types of whenyou're spreading the mortar,
when you're back buttering.
Do you do it thicker?
Do you do it thinner?
Do you need more with largeformat?
(19:29):
There are so many details thatgo into the installation process
, much more than just the design, that I absolutely agree that
you have to have some productknowledge, even as a contractor.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Oh yeah, and even as a designer, I'll use an example.
It was a glass Chevron and theChevrons, this was 0.3
millimeters thin tile.
That is probably one of thethinnest tiles you can get.
It's also glass, so superdelicate.
Well, I got some schooling thatday, which I love, because I
brought over a certain kind ofgrout and it was a universal
grout.
Well, I got some schooling thatday, which I love, because I
brought over a certain kind ofgrout and it was a universal
(20:03):
grout.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Well, immediately he looks at me and he goes I hope
you kept the receipt, yeah, andI, you know, I didn't know why.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Thanks for joining us today.
As always, we are grateful forour listeners and your continued
support.
Please subscribe to our YouTubechannel.
Follow us on social media viaFacebook, instagram and TikTok.
Get more info at our website,wwwthehomebuildingshowcom.
And, as always, remember who weare the Home Building and
(20:34):
Remodeling Show.
Ciao.
Popular Podcasts
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides. Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.