August 2, 2025 • 55 mins
What happens when a passionate public school teacher realizes the system she’s devoted her life to is built on control, coercion, and outdated standards?
In this powerful episode of The Homeschool How To Podcast, former K–12 teacher Angela Harders shares her eye-opening journey from traditional education to homeschooling and ultimately unschooling her own children. After over a decade in the classroom, Angela came to a painful conclusion: she was part of a system that often relied on fear, compliance, and force—not freedom or curiosity.
Her story begins with a desk thrown across the room on her very first day of teaching—and ends with her daughter launching a popsicle business by age 7, all without ever using a formal curriculum.
Angela opens up about:
- Her shift from teacher to unschooling parent
- Why she believes children can learn 13 years of math in just 6 months
- How her daughter learned to read without being taught
- Why the education system is designed for obedience, not understanding
- The power of real-world learning and self-direction
- How she now helps families legally unschool through PAX Academy and Peaceful World Schoolers
Whether you're a curious parent, frustrated teacher, or seasoned homeschooler, Angela’s story will challenge everything you think you know about education—and inspire you to rethink what learning really looks like.
👉 If you've ever searched:
- "Should I homeschool my child?"
- "What is unschooling?"
- "Why are teachers leaving the classroom?"
- "How do unschoolers learn math?"
…this episode is for you.
Contract Angela:
https://peacefulworldschoolers.com/
Cheryl's Guide to Homeschooling: Check out The Homeschool How To Complete Starter Guide- Cheryl's eBook compiling everything she's learned from her interviews on The Homeschool How To Podcast.
👉 Enroll now for Excelsior Classes Fall 2025 — perfect for homeschoolers!
👉 15% off Tuttle Twins books with code Cheryl15
Instagram: TheHomeschoolHowToPodcast
Facebook: The Homeschool How To Podcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to this week's episode of the Homeschool
How-To.
I'm Cheryl and I invite you tojoin me on my quest to find out
why are people homeschooling,how do you do it, how does it
differ from region to region,and should I homeschool my kids?
Stick with me as I interviewhomeschooling families across
the country to unfold theanswers to each of these
(00:26):
questions week by week.
Welcome.
Today, I have Angela Hartershere.
Angela, thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Okay, so you and I, we spoke a few months back.
I was on your podcast.
Tell everybody what that'scalled.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
The Peaceful World Schooling Podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I love it.
And you also have a PAXUniversity right PAX Academy.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yes, PAX.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Academy.
I love this.
So there we have so much to getinto because you've kind of
done it all.
So why don't you start bytelling us what ages are your
children?
How long have you beenhomeschooling?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
My oldest is 11 and my son is 6.
And technically we've beeneducating our children at home,
without school, since the daythat they were born Technically
11 years we've beenhomeschooling.
But legally speaking, westarted right from the very
beginning when my daughter was 5.
So legally 6 years, technically11.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
What made you ever decide to homeschool in the
first place?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I had always wanted to homeschool because I had
worked for over a decade as apublic school teacher and I saw
a lot of the problems and a lotof kind of the behind the scenes
stuff that happens in a publicschool classroom and I knew that
it was not going to be the kindof environment that I would
want my children in.
But because I was a single mom,I just didn't think it would be
possible for me.
(01:44):
But it was always my desire tobe able to educate my children
myself.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
So okay.
So first, what would be like anexample of something that you
saw that you were like, yeah,I'm not doing this with my kids?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Oh, my goodness, I've taught everything from
kindergarten through 12th grade.
There was just stuff that washappening in every grade level,
just from, you know, bullying todrugs and alcohol and bad
language and negative influencesand sexual stuff.
I don't know if I could saythat on your podcast, sure.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, things like that.
And then you know those arekind of the stuff that everyone
recognizes, right, the overtlike this is bad.
You know, we don't want ourkids around bullying and these
kinds of things.
But as I started diving intoand really researching what
abuse looks like and how doesabuse appear in different types
of relationships, that wasreally what made me start
(02:38):
beginning to see the schoolsystem through a completely
different lens and I startedrealizing that the entire school
system really can only functionthrough abusive tactics such as
force and coercion, threats,manipulation, isolation, trying
to exert power and control overanother human being.
And when I started realizingthat, at that point I was like
there's no way I can continue tobe a part of this system.
(03:01):
That for the first time I wasseeing, you know, like my eyes
had been opened, that, wow,every aspect of my job as a
teacher is forcing me tointeract with students in ways
that I believe are toxic andabusive and harmful, through
force and coercion.
And so, yeah, that was when Iwas like, nope, can't do this
anymore and so I quit.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
And there's no way that that comes overnight.
So what were you know?
Briefly, like the small stepsthat got you there.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Well, my very first day as a teacher, I was teaching
Spanish one at a public highschool and it was a title one
school.
So this was the school that had.
The 99% of the population wasAfrican American.
Over 50% of the population wason free and reduced lunch, so
they were more like lower incomefamilies.
And the very first day I meanas soon as the bell rang I knew
(03:50):
that there was going to be amajor problem.
I had 30 desks in my classroom.
My smallest class size had 35students and my largest had 42.
And so for that very firstperiod, I had 42 students that
were on my roster, 30 desks, andI'm thinking what am I going to
do with all these other kidswho are not teenagers, that
aren't going to have a seat?
And there was a boy who walkedin and he was really, really
(04:11):
tall I think it was a basketballplayer or something.
He was super tall and he satdown and put his feet over the
chair in front of him andstarted like texting on his
phone.
And I went over to him and Isaid excuse me, could you please
put your feet down so someoneelse could sit in this chair?
And without even thinking, hestood up and he was I mean,
towering over me, and he waslike, started screaming at me
and was like B?
(04:32):
Who the H?
Do you think you are telling mewhat to do?
And and I was like whoa, I mean,I was 21 years old, fresh out
of college, you know.
He was only a couple yearsyounger than me and I was
terrified.
He was screaming at me and Ijust said, you know, I'm your
teacher.
And he continued screaming atme and he was like man, f this
(04:56):
class and F you.
And he picked up the desk,threw it at me and walked out of
my classroom.
And I never saw him again afterthat, until graduation day when
he walked across the stage andthey handed him a diploma, even
though he never attended myclass.
And so that was like myintroduction to teaching in the
United States.
Was this interaction with thisboy that was screaming at me and
cursing at me and throwingstuff at me and walking out of
my class without even caring?
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Did you feel like you had backing from administration
or no?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
No, not at all.
There were.
There were so many fights inthat school.
I mean we would call forsecurity and they would never
show up.
There was just so many issuesall the time.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Well then.
So you got to think of like,are the other students safe if
this is going on?
You know, not only for yoursafety but the other students as
well.
And you know, your storyreminds me of the same things
that my friend would tell meabout.
She taught in the inner cityhere in Albany, new York, and
yeah, she didn't have desks forevery student and I think they
changed out a coat closet orsomething and made it her
(05:52):
classroom.
It was ridiculous.
But then on that same summerthat they did that for her, they
also put in new carpets in theprincipal's office.
It was like you have money,you're just choosing to use it
on like new carpets to replacekind of new carpets.
(06:12):
You know it's just disgusting.
So okay, so that had to be huge.
How hard was it leaving yourjob?
I mean, you went to college forthis.
You went in what state?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
are you in?
I'm in Maryland.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Maryland.
Okay, Because in New York youhave to have a master's degree
to to teach.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, we don't have to have a master's here, but I
do have a master's degree.
But being a teacher was mydream ever since I was a little
kid, and so it was reallydifficult for me.
I think when people become ateacher, no one becomes a
teacher because we're hoping toget rich.
We're hoping to, like, havethis ginormous bank account.
Teaching truly is a passiondriven field.
People become teachers becausewe love kids.
(06:48):
We want to make a differencefor children.
Either we had a greatexperience in school and we want
to share that with others, orwe had a terrible experience in
school and we want to make thedifference for someone else.
But people become teachersbecause we want to make a
positive difference in the world, and so it was really difficult
for me, as I started realizingthat not only was violence and
stuff happening around me, butthat I was a part of
(07:11):
perpetuating that violenceagainst children by having to
force and coerce them to dothings that they didn't want to
do and that, quite frankly, theywould have no actual practical
use for in their life.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
And are you meaning like testing?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, a lot of things .
I've taught a wide range ofsubjects over the years, but in
the final years that I wasteaching I ended up teaching
algebra two at a public highschool, which you know.
My students would sit there andjust miserable.
I mean these are 15, 16, 17year old.
Most of them were boys.
In the special educationprogram they were just
struggling with math.
(07:46):
Math was not my forte, I wasterrible at math.
But they stuck me in that classbecause I was the special
education teacher and so specialeducation you don't have to be
certified in the subject tosupport in the subject, because
they have a professional mathteacher who's teaching the math.
I'm just there to kind of helpout.
And none of the other specialeducation teachers in my school
wanted to be in the math classbecause all of them were like oh
(08:08):
, that's way too hard for us.
And it just made me think, likeyou all are grown adults with
master's degrees and you'rescared to teach as an assistant
teacher in a high school mathclass.
That should say something toyou about the relevance of this
subject that we're teaching them.
But that's besides the point.
So they stuck me in there.
I was like you know what I'lldo it.
It's fine, even though I thinkI got a C in algebra too when I
(08:30):
was a student and I hadn'ttouched any of this stuff in 20
years.
But I literally would teachmyself the material the day
before I had to teach it to mystudents.
And in having to teach it tomyself, I found that I really
loved it.
I really enjoyed it.
It was fun, it was easy.
Nothing about it felt hard orchallenging for me.
Completely the opposite of myexperience in learning algebra 2
(08:50):
as a student that hated mathand was struggling in that
subject area.
And they would ask me you know,ms Harders, when are we ever
going to use this?
And you know, I think a lot ofteachers try to.
Well, you know, you got to passthese tests and you got to get
into college and you might haveto use this someday.
But that wasn't my answer.
I just I was honest with them.
I was like you know what?
You're never going to use this.
You will never have to graph aquadratic function in real life.
(09:13):
You never will.
And I apologized to them.
I said I am so sorry that Ihave to take up precious time
from your childhood, from yourlife, the best years of your
life to force you to dosomething that is completely
useless in your actual life.
I'm so sorry that I have to dothat, but this is where we are,
and so let's try to get throughit the best that we can, and
I'll help you, you know.
Get through the rest of thisyear and we're going to do great
(09:35):
and I'm going to make it as funas possible.
And they said they really likedlearning math with me, I think
because I wasn't a math teacherso I could explain it in ways
that they could understand,because math wasn't my thing,
you know.
But that was what we did.
I work with them and mystudents actually did really,
really well.
They got you know A's and B'sin the subject and ended up
finishing out the year great.
But I think a big part of thatwas just being able to be honest
(09:57):
with them.
You're not going to use this.
But those kinds of questions oflike why are we doing this?
Why are we making kids learnstuff that is absolutely useless
?
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Well, you probably know why now, because you look
into that sort of thing.
You know the dumbing peopledown create the worker bee, get
them kind of so bogged down inthis busyness that they don't
take time to step back and lookat life as a whole.
And what do I really want?
What do I want to do with mytime?
That's been the biggest thingfor me since leaving my
government job and homeschoolingthe kids is like whoa, I get to
pick what I do with my day.
(10:31):
Like this is weird.
I have not done this ever in mylife and I'm 41 now.
So I'm like we can just gokayaking if we want to go
kayaking.
And, granted, you know you needmoney.
So I do the social media stuff,just like you do, and my
husband works, so it is makingsure that I am, you know, always
(10:51):
there to watch the kids as theprimary, and you know so.
But it's interesting to just notbe told where I have to be
every day and what I have to do.
Like I'm.
I'm discovering that I likeI've literally never kayaked in
my life until last month.
And then yesterday my you know,one of the other homeschool
moms was like yeah, I got acouple of kayaks and paddle
(11:11):
boards.
Do you want to go up to thelake?
And I'm like, wow, all right, Iguess at four, 30 in the
evening we can just do that.
And it was just so weird, likewe don't have to worry about
getting dinner on the table at acertain time, we don't have to
worry about getting the kids tobed at a certain time Like it's
so weird to me, but it's soawesome too, all right.
So tell me.
So you had your daughter, wasit a daughter?
(11:33):
11 years ago?
Yes, all right, and you've beenhome with her since.
How did you do that?
You said you were a single mom.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
I am a single mom.
Yes, well, when my daughter wasfive and actually sorry, when
she was four, you know, ofcourse I didn't anticipate I
would be able to homeschool.
So I actually was teaching atthat time when she was four
years old and I was.
So I would go to school everyday and teach algebra two and
then I would come home every dayto my super passionate and
(12:00):
positive and curious andcreative four-year-old and I
think seeing the dichotomy ofthe two types of students was a
big part of me stepping away.
You know, I kept seeing likeevery day I'm coming home to
this child who's so passionateand creative and curious and
asking a million questions andloves learning.
And then every day I go toschool with these kids who've
been in this system for, youknow, 10 years, 11 years, 12
(12:22):
years, sometimes more, andthey're miserable and they're
bored and they're apathetic andthey're frustrated and they feel
like they're stupid and likethey have all these negative
experiences around learning.
And I was just like I want topreserve my child's love of
learning as long as possible.
So at the beginning I wasworking full time outside of the
school and then, after thatfirst year, just like you, I was
(12:44):
like my passion isn't to beaway from my kids all day, every
day.
I want to homeschool so I canbe with them more, and so I just
started looking for other waysto earn income and to organize
my life, just like how youmentioned creating my life in a
way that would work so that wecould really have everything
that we wanted.
And what I wanted was to beable to be home full time with
(13:04):
my kids and to earn a living,while I could also be here with
her.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
So how did you do that?
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Goodness, I've done a lot of things over the years I
have.
After I, immediately after Ileft teaching, I actually
started a business in my homewhere I would take care of other
people's kids who were, likethe parents had to work but they
wanted their kids to well, theydidn't want to send their kids
to school, and so I kind of itwas, I guess, like daycare for
(13:29):
the older kids, for school agekids, and that worked out really
great at the very beginningbecause I mean, with six kids, I
was able to replace my teachersalary and I was able to be
fully present with my kids andwe would like go to parks and
playgrounds and field trips andall this stuff every day, and
she got to be around other kidsand we could learn in a really
small group and have thatfreedom and flexibility.
(13:49):
So I really enjoyed that and soI did that for two years and
then after the second year, mydaughter was like Mom, I'm kind
of tired of having kids playwith my toys all the time, and
so I just started looking forother things to do at that point
.
So I did investing in realestate.
I've done private tutoring.
I have done piano lessons, swimlessons, selling stuff on
(14:18):
Facebook marketplace, investingin crypto, like all kinds of
different stuff.
But now what I do is I actuallyrun two different homeschooling
organizations.
The first one is calledPeaceful World Schoolers and
that is a nonprofit where we doweekly field trips and events
for families all over.
We started out in Maryland butstarting this year in September,
we're actually going to beexpanding into over 20 different
states and three differentcountries.
So we have parent mom you know,homeschool mom volunteers that
(14:41):
plan amazing field trips andevents all over the place.
So if you want to check out ourgroups, you can join
peacefulworldschoolerscom.
It's totally free.
You can join a local group nearyou, and if you don't have a
local group near you, feel freeto let me know and I'll be happy
to help you start one.
But it's an awesome way to justbuild community, because we
really do believe that the bestlearning that our children can
(15:02):
do is when they're exploring thereal life and the real world
with real people and realexperts in all their fields and
with real friends and a realcommunity.
So yeah, so that's PeacefulWorld Schoolers.
And then the second part that Ido is I started a private
school for unschoolers, forhomeschoolers and unschoolers,
and it's called PAX Academy.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
So that's what I do now, and is that that's a
physical location that people goto?
Speaker 2 (15:25):
So PAX Academy, it's a private school for
homeschoolers and unschoolersand world schoolers, so we don't
operate a physical location.
We provide the legal coveringof families to be enrolled in a
private school with the freedomto unschool, and so basically,
we handle the legal paperwork ofall the things.
So we issue transcripts anddiplomas, we provide hundreds of
resources for families to useand then, because you're
(15:47):
enrolling in a private school,the parents are actually
considered teachers with aprivate school and so they can
use their PAX Academy teacherdiscount at any store that
offers discounts for teachers.
My family and I we actuallywere able to take a week-long
cruise to Mexico and we used myPAX Academy discount to get the
cruise for free.
So that was fun.
But, yeah, we get free stuffand we get free entrance in
(16:08):
museums and discounts on artsupplies and movies and all
kinds of different things.
Yeah, so that's what we do now.
So we have students that arefrom all 50 states and we can
accept students from almostevery country in the world.
Currently, we have studentsfrom four different countries.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
That's so cool.
I will put links to all of thatin the show's description so
people can pop in and see whatworks for them.
I mean, that is so cool.
I don't even know where tobegin to ask you how you thought
of that.
So let's just get into whatyour day looks like with your
kids homeschooling.
I hear this all the time.
I can't homeschool for middleschool and up.
I'm not a science teacher.
(16:45):
I can't teach writing.
But, friend, homeschoolingdoesn't mean doing it alone.
Let me tell you about ExcelsiorClasses, a live online
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Your middle schooler or highschooler can take biology,
(17:07):
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Visit excelsiourclassescom tohelp your teen thrive.
Today you can grab the link inmy show's description.
What does the day-to-day?
You're obviously busy, butyou're unschooling too, right?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yeah.
So when we first started outour homeschool journey, I had
anticipated homeschooling Ithink, the way that most people
think of homeschooling by doingschool at home.
In fact, I was so proud ofmyself I created this whole
schedule that we were going todo 30 minutes of reading and 30
minutes of math and 30 minutesof science, and I was so proud
of myself that I had actuallybuilt in 30 minutes of math and
30 minutes of science.
And and I was so proud ofmyself that I had actually built
(17:46):
in 30 minutes for recess.
And I laugh at looking back atthat now, but you know, I was so
proud at that moment because itwas like, oh, my daughter's
gonna get 30 whole minutes forrecess in the middle of our day,
because the public school kidshere they only get 15 minutes
for recess, you know, and Ithought that was going to be
such a great, a great thing thatmy daughter could have 30 whole
(18:07):
minutes of recess.
And so that was what I hadinitially planned, or what I
imagined that homeschooling wassupposed to look like.
Thank God, I never actually gotto follow through with that
plan because shortly before weofficially started our
homeschool year, I posted in aFacebook group and asked other
homeschooling moms you know, ifyou could give any advice to a
new homeschooling mom, whatwould you say?
And I got hundreds of commentsback from all these different
(18:30):
women and moms and there was onecomment in particular that
stuck out to me Someone I wish Iknew who it was.
She left me a comment with twowords.
She said research, unschooling.
And I had no idea at the timehow those two words would
completely transform my life andmy family and my view on
learning and school and theentire world and my relationship
(18:52):
with my children.
And so, yeah, that kind ofstarted us on our journey.
I started researching aboutunschooling and I was very
skeptical, but at the same timeI was very intrigued.
You know, I spent a lot ofyears as a public school teacher
, as a reading teacher, and Iwas very intrigued with this
idea that children could learnhow to read without being
explicitly taught that idea.
(19:13):
I had heard a lot ofunschoolers say that, but I did
not think that that was possible.
I did not believe that thatcould be true, and so I wanted
to see for myself, and so thatwas kind of how we stumbled into
unschooling.
I just I committed for herkindergarten year.
I said okay for this one yearof kindergarten on purpose.
I am not going to teach mydaughter anything.
(19:35):
I am going to, instead ofviewing myself as the teacher of
my child, I'm going to begin toview myself as the best student
of my child, and I'm going todo that for one year.
Then'm going to learn all I canabout this unique human being
that God has given me to raise,and we'll see what happens at
the end of the year.
Tell us Honestly, my mind wascompletely blown.
I was shocked.
If you had told me you knowagain before that a kid could
(19:58):
learn how to read without beingtaught, I would have been like
there's no way.
I mean, I was a reading teacher.
That was my whole job wasteaching kids how to read.
And no, I was wrong.
My daughter absolutely.
By the end of that year she wasreading completely on her own.
I have no idea how thathappened, because I did not
teach her.
We did not do a phonics lesson,we didn't do a workbook, a
worksheet, a curriculum, likenothing.
(20:19):
We did nothing that year andsomehow, by the end of that year
, so did you read books together, though like read aloud?
We did yeah, I mean read nothingthat was outside of the
ordinary of, like, our normallife, like I always watch the TV
with subtitles, or before wewould go to bed we'd cuddle and
read a book together.
But I was never like you know,we're going to today's a day,
(20:42):
you know, it wasn't like that.
There was.
There were no like OK, we'regoing to practice this phonics
worksheet Nothing that I wouldtypically use as a reading
teacher, any of the strategiesthat I would use as a reading
teacher.
I didn't do any of that.
I really was very intentionalto like I am not going to teach
my daughter how to read becauseI want to see if she can really
do it herself, and I know thatprobably sounds crazy to a lot
(21:02):
of people, but I figured, if I'mever going to know for myself
if it's possible, I have to bewilling to do the experiment
myself, and so that's what I did.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, for sure.
And I mean I'm on like I I'veresearched a little bit of
unschooling.
I'm sure there's a little bitmore I could research.
But to me it's like the you'reliving your life Right and as
things come up that you see likethe child led interest, sort of
thing, then you might take outsome books from the library or
documentary, do a little bit ofresearch on that, or if it's
(21:34):
something that I findinteresting because I'm like
maybe if I get excited about itthey will too.
But I have done the phonics withmy son.
I have done the readingprograms.
He's still not reading.
I mean he just turned seventhis week, but that's okay,
because I know that places likeFinland they don't do anything
formal until age seven and it'snot like I've been hardcore.
I've taken months off where wehaven't done anything.
(21:56):
I've tried all differentcurriculums and I'm like man, is
this kid dyslexic or something?
I've gotten him checked.
He is not.
But boys they kind of mightmature a little bit slower and
it doesn't really mean anything.
So I try very hard to exposehim to the phonics and whatnot,
(22:16):
but not make it an overwhelmingevery day, like if something
else is going on, you know, liketoday, for instance.
He was up early so I said let'sget some of your reading
horizons.
Is the program he's using rightnow.
Let's get some of that doneWithin the, the program he's
using right now.
Let's get some of that doneWithin the first five minutes.
His friends showed up to comeover for the day and it was like
, ok, well, put it away, youknow, because you're going to be
doing things, you know, playingwith the kids, just so people
(22:39):
know that it's not guaranteedyour child will learn in the
first grade year, but girlsprobably more easily, I would
want to believe, because my sonis like jumping off the walls
all the time.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah, I mean, and we see that a lot both in
homeschool and in regular school, right Like I think a lot of it
has to do with the preferredmethod of learning.
Like I think girls are a littlebit more willing to kind of sit
down and learn through a morecalm and passive way, whereas a
lot of boys need to learnthrough their whole body, like
they're very physical, and theyneed to learn through movement,
(23:15):
they need to learn through, liketouching things and actually
doing things with their hands.
And I think, you know, when itcomes to reading, this was a
really big concern for me.
You know, I was like, oh gosh,what if I'm the only reading
teacher in the world with a kidwho doesn't know how to read,
you know.
But more than anything, again,I was while I was doing all of
this.
You know, my daughter was five,I was still teaching and and I
(23:35):
would go to school and I wouldsee these teenagers and they
hated reading and I I justremember coming home and I would
say what is the point?
Right, like, what is the point?
Reading is a tool.
If I have a tool but I have nopurpose for this tool and I
don't see the value in this tool, then what does it matter if I
have a tool?
(23:56):
I mean, my dad passed away acouple years ago and he has a
whole man cave in our garagewith it's full of tools, and
when we would go in there and Imean there's tools in there, I'm
like I don't even know whatthis is, I don't know what this
is for, I don't know what thisdoes Like, and there's probably
thousands of dollars worth oftools that is in his little man
cave, but it doesn't matter.
I mean, I've got plenty oftools in there, but if I don't,
(24:18):
if I don't know how to use themand I don't have a purpose to
use them and I don't have anydesire to use them like matter,
you know, and I think a lot oftimes we treat reading like that
in the school system as likehere's this tool, you have to
have this tool.
But when you force children toread things that they don't have
a passion for and they don'thave a purpose for and they're
(24:38):
not interested in, there's nofaster way to kill a child's
love of reading than by doingthat.
And that's literally what Iwould see happen every day with
my students.
And then they get to be, youknow, high school students and
they're like, oh, I can't waitto graduate, I will never touch
a book again, you know.
It's like, okay, well, what isthe point then of forcing them
to read all these years if, forthem, reading is just something
that's miserable and difficultand boring and frustrating and
(25:02):
totally not interesting for themat all?
I'm like, I don't want that.
I want my children to lovereading rather than knowing how
to just have the tool, like Iwant them to love the tool.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, and it is hard, Because now I look back at life
and you know I was not a reader.
I mean, there were books I readover the years, but there are
some people that always have,you know, a book that they are
in the midst of reading.
It would be like one year forme and I'm like man, I want to
be one of those people that likereading.
I just don't.
And just like you said it was,I remember reading class in
(25:33):
sixth grade and wanting to readthe Goosebumps book and they
told me, no, you can't read that.
You know, it's got to be one ofthe other books that they had
on their shelves and they wereall boring and nothing I was
interested in.
So I just, I just sat therewith a book open and stared at
the clock and was like, allright, I guess this is what I'll
do instead, because I didn'twant to read what they wanted me
(25:55):
to.
You know, yeah, why kill thepassion, Right?
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Exactly, and it's like I would rather my child
discover what kinds of booksthat they actually enjoy reading
than by me just trying to forcethem to read a book because
that's what's next in thecurriculum reading, than by me
just trying to force them toread a book because that's
what's next in the curriculum.
You know, like that, that justI don't know.
That never made sense to me.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
So do you do any curriculum with your kids?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Nope, we've never done any curriculum.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
So cool.
So do you all?
Right, this is a great one.
How do you, I guess, workthrough the situations that
arise, maybe with a familymember, cousins or whatnot, who
are, you know, reading or doinga certain level math that your
kids are not at yet becausethey're not in the standard
(26:37):
grade levels?
Right, how do you approach that?
Because there is an insecurityin us parents that are like, oh,
like, I know what I'm doingbecause I research it, but they
don't know what I'm doing andthey just think I'm being lazy.
How do you approach that?
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah, I think unschooling, while the word for
a lot of people might beterrifying or just like new, the
practice of it really isn't.
You know, unschooling is whatwe did before our children
started school and it's what wedo now as adults, now that we're
out of school, right Like sinceI've left school.
And since you've left school,you've probably learned some
(27:13):
things you know and you didn'tlearn them because you had a
curriculum or a teacher that wastelling you what to learn and
how to learn it in the order youneeded to learn.
Is that correct?
Speaker 1 (27:21):
That is correct.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yeah, so how did you learn, like, how do you learn
the things that you need tolearn now as an adult?
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Jeez.
So like how to do a podcast orrun an Instagram page?
Yeah, you watch some YouTubevideos or read the comments
section of a Facebook page.
No trial and error.
Hire a you know off of, likeFiverr, which you know.
You can hire a freelance personthat specializes in that area,
(27:48):
you know, maybe gleam somethings off of them, but you
don't have to know all of thenuances.
You can hire people out for thethings that you don't know.
So, yeah, I would say askingchat, gpt, even though we might
be giving me what the governmentwants me to know.
But that's all right, somethings are useful.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Yeah, yeah, and all of that is is awesome, I mean,
and that's what all of us know,right, and it's like you know
how to do things that I don'tknow how to do, and I know how
to do things that you don't knowhow to do, and that's OK.
Like we, no one in the worldwould expect all of us to know
all the same things of like, hey, I'm in grade 35, now you know
(28:34):
I'm in grade 35.
Like, have you bought yourhouse, yet have you paid off
your mortgage?
Yet that happens in level 40.
You know, like, no one, no onetalks like that, no one thinks
like that, no one operates likethat, and yet we think that
that's how it has to be, from Kthrough 12.
And so, like, are there thingsthat my daughter doesn't know,
that she would know if she's inschool?
Yes, I'll give you a primeexample.
I was talking about this withsomeone the other day.
Actually, I know that mydaughter does not know how to
divide fractions, right, shedoes not know how to do that.
And, and I asked this personshould I be worried that my 11
(28:58):
year old does not know how todivide a fraction?
Should I be worried about that?
I'm curious what do you think?
Should I be concerned?
Speaker 1 (29:04):
well, you know what?
Now that you bring up, like, doyou need to know that later in
life and telling your kids, I'msorry I'm wasting your childhood
with this because you won'tneed it in life?
Like I'm trying to think of thelast time I divided a fraction.
Like, gee, there's some pizzathat's cut up and I need to know
how many kids to give it to.
I don't know.
But no, never in the workforce.
(29:25):
I worked for the government for16 years.
I never needed to know how todivide a fraction.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Never, and that's in the fourth grade curriculum,
right?
So this is a fourth gradecurriculum that they're supposed
to learn how to dividefractions, right?
My daughter does not know howto do that and I'm not worried
about it for all the reasonsthat you said.
I'm like, honestly, I can'teven think of a situation in
real life where I've ever had todivide a fraction, like in my
entire adult life.
I don't think I've ever donethat, and if there was a need
(29:53):
for me to ever divide a fraction, I have a tool in my hand that
could literally do it perfectlyevery single time, in 0.2
seconds, right?
So what does that say to me,the fact that my daughter
doesn't know how to divide afraction?
It doesn't mean she's behind.
It doesn't mean she's behind.
It doesn't mean that she's slow.
It doesn't mean that she's dumbor she'll never learn how to do
that.
All that it means is that thatskill has not shown up in her
(30:15):
actual real life yet, and that'sokay, that's it.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Yes, it's not relevant to her life yet, so
there's no need to know it.
Because the schools need toknow it, because they need a
measure of what we accomplishedthroughout the day and year so
that funding can be, you know,attributed to this area, that
area.
You know, that's really it.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
It does not take 13 years to do math.
This was actually a bigquestion that I had when I first
started unschooling.
Those were my two big concerns.
I was worried how is mydaughter going to read if I
don't teach her?
And how is my daughter going tolearn algebra two again,
because I was the algebra twoteacher.
I'm like no one out here isgraphing quadratic functions for
fun, right.
So how do you learn thesehigher levels of math as an
unschooler?
(30:55):
And so I actually startedinterviewing grown unschoolers,
like people who had grown upwith this philosophy, and I
asked them those two questionshow did you learn how to read
without being taught, and howdid you learn all the math that
you needed to go to college?
13 years of math as anunschooler.
And guess how long they told meit took them to learn 13 years
(31:16):
of math as an unschooler Fiveyears, good, guess I was.
I had guessed one year, butevery single grown unschooler
that I interviewed said thatthey learned 13 years of math in
six months or less.
Every single one.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
And it's funny because when I think back to,
like, what math did I take inschool?
You know, obviously you takeaddition, subtraction,
multiplication, division, andthen there's the algebras, where
all I know is that you have aletter in place of a number that
you have to solve, for there'sprobably percentages somewhere.
I don't remember ever takinglike trigonometry, maybe I doubt
(31:50):
it Calculus I don't remember athing about it.
Maybe is that pi 3.14?
But what does that even mean?
It's not relevant to my life atall.
It's never come up.
Yeah, what did we spend?
13?
Speaker 2 (32:02):
It's a really valid question, I think you know, and
asking ourselves that questionLike and you know, when I first
started asking grown unschoolersthis question, like how long
did it take you?
If you hear one person say, oh,it took me six months to learn
13 years of math, I'd be like,okay, maybe you're like some
kind of freak genius and you didthat.
But I interviewed easily over50 grown unschoolers and every
(32:24):
single one of them told me sixmonths or less.
And the last lady that I askedthis question to, I asked her
how long it took her.
She said that when she wasgetting ready to go to college,
she had to take a college levelmath placement test because she
wanted I can't remember what shewanted to do, but she wanted to
do some career that requiredher to go to college, and so in
order to get into the college,she had to take the math
(32:44):
placement test.
And so she studied for twoweeks before doing this math
placement test.
Two weeks and that was it.
She, like hyper-focused,studied for two weeks after
never having any formal mathtraining whatsoever in her
entire life.
Studied for two weeks.
Not only did she pass thecollege level math entrance exam
, but they placed her insophomore level math in college
(33:05):
after two weeks of studying.
And these are people that didn'tlike math, right?
Because if they would haveliked math then they would have
been doing it all along.
Because, as unschoolers, you dowhat you love right?
So these are people who weren'tinterested in math whatsoever
until they had a purpose for it.
And then, once they had apurpose for it, now they have a
(33:25):
reason to learn it.
They learn it really quickly,they learn it really easily.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
They learn it just goes back to you apologizing to
these kids, saying I'm sorry I'mwasting your childhood with
this.
You're never going to need it.
Oh my God, what a waste of time.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
I know, I know, and how many parents right Like and
when I started hearing thesestories I started reflecting on
that.
I'm like how many parents havewasted so many precious hours in
their evening after schoolfighting with their kids about
math homework?
Evening after school fightingwith their kids about math
homework like arguing with themabout studying for a math test
or the grades that they got orwhatever, on some stupid math
(34:03):
whatever or something.
For 13 years they've beenfighting with their kids about
math homework and the kids feelstupid and they feel frustrated
and they feel bored and they'relike confused and lost and and
all of these like negativethings.
When we could have avoided allof that and just given them the
freedom to pursue what they loveand then, when they were ready
or had a reason to learn thathigher level math, they'd learn
it in six months or lessthinking about homeschooling but
(34:26):
don't know where to start.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
well, I've interviewed a few people on the
topic actually 120 interviews atthis point with homeschooling
families from across the countryand the world and what I've
done is I've packed everythingI've learned into an ebook
called the Homeschool How-ToComplete Starter Guide.
From navigating your state'slaws to finding your
homeschooling style, fromworking while homeschooling to
supporting kids with specialneeds, this guide covers it all,
(34:50):
with real stories from realfamilies who've walked this path
.
I've taken the best insights,the best resources and put them
all into this guide.
I've taken the best insights,the best resources and put them
all into this guide.
Stop feeling overwhelmed andstart feeling confident.
Get your copy of the HomeschoolHow-To Complete Starter Guide
today and discover thathomeschooling isn't just about
education.
It's about getting what youwant out of each day, not what
somebody else wants out of you.
(35:11):
You can grab the link to thisebook in the show's description
or head on over tothehomeschoolhowtocom.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Like why would anyone choose to be miserable for 13
years?
Speaker 1 (35:21):
You know what I mean?
Well, because the system hasdesigned it that way to make us
think that we need to be right,like yeah, I mean it was eye
opening for me to realize, and Ithink it took a matter of years
to like slowly decompress fromthat system.
And yeah, like under you almosthave to get mad to like, oh my
(35:43):
god, you wasted so much time ofmine.
But do you see like ahomeschool revolution or an
unschool revolution going on inthe world right now?
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Absolutely.
The more that I do this, themore I'm convinced that
unschooling or self-directededucation is the future of
education.
Nothing else makes sense to me.
It does not make sense for meto force my children to waste
the best years of their life onthings that are completely
worthless to them and to destroya relationship in the process,
make them miserable in theprocess, make them feel, you
(36:14):
know, frustrated and all theseother things in the process.
No, when we can choose to livein a way and they can learn in a
way that is full of joy, thatis full of passion, that is full
of purpose, that is full oflove and patience and peace and
no stress, who wouldn't wantthis?
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Well, you haven't lived in my household,
especially with myseven-year-old boy and all of
his seven-year-old friends.
Peace and stress-free isn'texactly what I'd say.
But you know what was reallysweet All the boys today.
I made dinner and I go okay,who's eating here?
And I just put, you know,plates of food out on our screen
porch and they all go.
Oh, I am, I am, I am and theyall come over to eat and I go.
(36:54):
My husband goes.
You know you don't have to feedeverybody.
You fed him lunch.
Why are you feeding him dinnertoo?
I go, you know what?
Because I didn't grow up likethis.
I didn't grow up in a householdthat people wanted to be at,
and it is as stressful as it isto like, make sure this one's
not killing that one and thisone's not flying a dirt bike
into a tree, and you know likeit is nice to have the place
(37:16):
where, like, people want to beand your kids want to be, and
you know.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
And food does that right.
Like food is such a uniter, youknow, like in just bringing
people together and making youfeel comfortable and at home,
and that's so cool and I'm sureyour children are going to look
back on that and be so thankfulthat you took the time to do
that, to look back on that andbe so thankful that you took the
time to to do that like thetime, the money and the effort
to offer lunch and dinner totheir friends so that they can
(37:42):
stay and enjoy a little bitlonger with you guys.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
What a gift yeah, I hope, I hope they.
I keep saying I want my kids,in order to get my kids to
appreciate what I do, I want tolike drop them off into, like
the inner city for three days.
Not that there isn't love andstuff there, but there is
probably not the dirt bikes, thefour wheelers that you know,
all the things.
Like my son pouted today CauseI was like you're done with the
(38:04):
dirt bike, I need you to be moreresponsible and I just at this
point I feel like when you gethurt on it, it's no longer your
fault, it's mine, cause Irecognized the signs that you
weren't mature enough for it yet.
And, oh my God, he pouted forso long because all he had to
ride was the four wheeler.
I'm like, are you kidding me?
Like this isn't the kid I'mtrying to raise.
I want to raise like someonewho is appreciative.
(38:27):
So I got to find like missionwork or something we can go on.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
So we're actually we're going to be going to
Guatemala next year and actuallyone of the reasons why we're
going to Guatemala is exactlywhat you're talking about.
I went on my first mission tripwhen I was 12 years old and we
went and volunteered at like anorphanage there, and we're
actually going to be going backto one of the orphanages that I
volunteered at with my kids andwe're leading a group of
(38:52):
peaceful world schoolers and so,yeah, our students are getting
community service hours and theycan also get high school and
college credit for travelingwith us.
But but what you were talkingabout is literally the goal.
Like I want my children to seethat there are people in the
world that don't live the waythat we do, that don't have the
blessings that we have, and andreally have that eye opening
experience that I had when I was12.
(39:13):
They're like, oh my gosh, likethere are people in the world
that are literally living incardboard boxes and don't have
water and don't have electricityand like this is not like what
I'm used to, and so I can begrateful for my four wheeler and
grateful for my house and mybed, and you know, like all
these other things, that that,for so many other people, is
such a luxury, so you shouldcome with us to Guatemala next
(39:35):
year.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Hey, send me the information.
I will definitely look thatover.
I am a chicken but I think Icould.
I could do it.
It's funny because I rememberthe same friend that that worked
in the inner city school.
That was in like this tinylittle room that I was talking
about earlier, with more kidsthan desks.
I remember her telling me aboutone of her trips that she had
to do.
I think it was for school.
Maybe she had to do.
(39:56):
I think it was for school.
Maybe she had to teach abroad.
And she said, Cheryl, thesekids they were playing in like a
dump, like a garbage dump.
That was their playground.
They were the happiest kidsI've ever seen in my whole life,
like more happy than any childin America she has ever seen.
I don't know what country shewas in, but that's always stuck
(40:16):
with me.
What did you see working in theschool system as far as that
goes, the appreciativeness orjust the happiness level or
depression level and what didyou change for your kids?
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Oh gosh.
Well, I mean, mental health isa huge problem in schools
nowadays.
So many kids, I mean.
We had students even inelementary school that they were
putting them on second graderson anti-anxiety medication and
I'm like, why is a second graderon anti-anxiety medication Like
you should be playing and happy, like these are the best, the
(40:50):
best years.
Right, you're seven.
What are you anxious about that?
You need to be drugged to likefunction, you know, and yeah.
So a lot of the mental healthissues are a major problem in
school.
But actually one of my years asa teacher, I took my students
from that.
The first high school that Itaught at, largo High School is
again, you know, low incomeschool and I took a group of
(41:10):
students there were like 25 ofus and we went to Guatemala and
they served, and so over springbreak we spent our spring break
serving in Guatemala.
We were digging wells forpeople who didn't have water.
We were digging holes to helpthem plant food and teach them
how to like grow their ownfruits and vegetables.
We played with the kids at theorphanage.
We served food to families thatwere living in literally in the
(41:30):
dump.
Like your friend mentioned,they're entire families that
literally just live in the dumpsand they'll sleep in, you know,
whole family in a cardboard boxin the dump, and so we served
food there.
We brought like clothes and foodand shoes and all kinds of
stuff and yeah, so we did thatfor our spring break and every
single one of those kids saidthat that trip was one of the
(41:53):
most life-changing experiencesthat they ever had.
And it was so interesting tolike come back to the United
States with these kids who werestruggling with poverty here in
the United States but to be ableto go there and see like that
level of poverty was like okay,I really don't have it that bad.
And I and they came back I meana lot of them just like cried
and hugged their parents in theairport and they were like thank
(42:14):
you so much for all you do forus, for everything like that
you've done for us, and itreally was like a life
transforming experience.
So I hope to be able to helpmore students have that similar
experience of being able to justhave your eyes open to what the
real world is like for so manyother people and how we can
serve and love people in otherplaces and other countries and
(42:35):
build those bridges.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
So yeah, yeah, and it's interesting too that we're
teaching them how to grow foodwhen most of the people in
america now don't even know howto do that, and you'd think that
the third world countries arethat's what they do to get by so
that they would know.
But how?
How crazy is that?
Do you ever stop and thinkabout that?
That?
All of the what did you call it?
The quadratic or the?
(42:57):
The calc, the graphing yeah,all of the what did you call it?
The quadratic or the graphing?
Yeah, all of the stuff that youmentioned for math.
We're spending all this timeteaching kids this stuff, but
yet we're not teaching them howto grow food, find shelter, find
clean water, how taxes actuallywork, like if you're a business
owner.
Inflation, really, inflationreally works Like they never.
(43:17):
They might've talked a littlebit about interest, but they
never talked about compoundinterest and what you're
actually paying back over thelife of a car loan or a home
loan, or how to invest money.
Is that?
Speaker 2 (43:30):
a little crazy to you .
I mean, it is crazy.
It's, you know, like when wethink about it, someone out
there, some politician, decidedthat, like, at this age, this is
what this child needs to know,just because they're this old,
right.
And then we all just think thatthat's normal.
And it's like who decided thatquadratic equations was going to
(43:51):
be the thing for like, a 15year old?
You know, it's like you're 15now.
Now it's quadratic equationtime, like, like, who said that
that would take priority overall those things that you
mentioned?
I'm like learning how to growyour own food would be
infinitely more valuable thanthat.
Learning how to start abusiness would be infinitely
more valuable.
Sorry, we got a big storm overhere.
I don't know if you could hearthat.
Yes, I could.
(44:11):
Yeah, but yeah, like learningall of those practical, like
learning how to cook food.
(44:58):
No-transcript wanted to have adog and, of course, as a single
mom, I was like I do not need anextra expense in my life.
Like I can barely afford tokeep us afloat and we're going
to not, you know, take on anadditional payment every month
to pay for this dog.
And so she came back and shesaid all right, mom, if we can't
(45:20):
have a dog, then could I starta business where I take care of
other people's dogs?
And she was like then otherpeople could pay me to take care
of their dog.
And I was like, oh my gosh, Idon't know if you can hear that
that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Wait, what state did you say you were in?
Again, I'm in.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Maryland.
It is so that storm is crazyloud.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
The government is cloud seeding above Maryland
tonight.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Yeah, well, this whole week it's like been crazy.
I'm like what is going on here?
And then we've had all theflash flood warnings and
everything this week.
I know this is totally offtopic, so are we able to cut
this out?
No, it's not, because thegovernment's still probably
behind it.
No, truly.
But yeah, it's been crazy thisweek.
Sorry about all the thunder inthe background, but anyways,
yeah.
So, anyways, my daughter mydaughter basically was like you
(46:02):
know, if, if we can't have it beas an expense for us, then can
I start a business where I takecare of other people's dogs and
that way other people will payme to take care of their dogs
and then it's not costing youmoney, we're making money.
And I was like you know what?
I didn't really have a goodreason to say no to that.
So I was like all right, let'sgive it a try.
And so she started a businesson Rover which is like an app
(46:24):
where you can find dog sitters.
And so she created her profileand I had to help her because
you know, you have to be 18 toregister on the thing.
So technically, I started thatpiece of it, but we talked about
starting a profile and gettingphotos of the clients and
communicating with the clients,and actually out of her starting
her business, a lot of thatmath piece came in, because we
(46:45):
would talk about, ok, how muchdo you want to charge and how
much do you want to charge perday and what kind of dogs do you
want to take, and like justreally being picky about the
kind of clients that she wanted.
And then we started asking youknow, as she goes she would
learn okay, I really don't wantto have really big dogs because
they ate our chickens.
So they were like, okay, we'renot going to have big dogs
anymore, we're just going to dothe little dogs.
And so we, you know, starteddoing little dogs.
(47:06):
And then she would like writeon a clipboard of like questions
that she wanted to ask everytime we would have a new client,
we do a meet and greet, and soshe would again practice like
writing where she'd write downher questions.
She wanted to ask them andtheir answers.
And then she really startedgetting the entrepreneurial
mindset.
She started out charging Ithink it was like $50 a day to
take care of other people's dogs, and she had little friends
(47:26):
that were, you know, youngerthan her, so she was seven at
the time and her friend was five, and my daughter hated picking
up the poop right, but of course, if you want to have a business
and you want to take care ofdogs, you have to do stuff that
you don't always like to do.
So she'd have to pick up thepoop.
And eventually her friend, whowas five, was like hey, I want
to help with your business.
And so she said you know what?
(47:47):
I'll pay you $5 to pick up thepoop.
And so whenever she would havea client, she would pay her
friends $5 to pick up the poop.
And she was like Mom, did youknow that if I pay her $5 to
clean up the poop, I'll stillhave $45 left over?
And and even though I'm notdoing the dirty work, and I was
like that's entrepreneurship,like that's how it works.
(48:07):
You pay people to do the stuffthat you either don't want to do
or you can't do and you keepthe profits right.
Like that's, that's how runninga business works.
So, without having to do youknow again, no, buying a
curriculum, carry today'sentrepreneurship day.
We're going to learn profit andloss and employees and all that
.
Like no, she just it happenedin her life and she figured it
out on her own and and yeah, andso now you know what, four
(48:29):
years later, she's got like awhole book of business and like
repeat clients Actually, we haveanother repeat client who's
going to be coming next week andyeah, so she's got her little
business going.
And then she took the profitsfrom that business and decided
that she wanted to start apopsicle business with one of
her best friends and there wereno popsicles that had like.
(48:51):
She wanted to create popsiclesthat were made with with raw
milk and organic fruit and hadno added sugar, and so, yeah, so
that was what she did.
So they're really, really,really yummy and yeah, and they
sell popsicles at like sportsevents and at their homeschool
group and all kinds of things.
But it was really cool to see,like, how they took their
(49:12):
profits from one business to beable to buy the materials that
they needed to start thispopsicle business.
And my daughter's real passionis art, and so they were really
excited about coming up with allthe creative flavors for the
different popsicle flavorcombinations that they were
going to do, and they createdlittle characters, and so they
drew on Procreate with all thedigital logos and created
(49:35):
characters with all these namesand they printed out stickers
and t-shirts and this wholething for the popsicle business.
So through all of that, it'slike they're learning all these
really valuable skills whilethey're pursuing the things that
they really love and enjoy, andso, yeah, it's a really
beautiful thing to see.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
Amazing.
They are learning so much and,like you said, it's relevant to
them.
They're seeing the profit, thebenefit of it, the relevance to
their life.
I mean, if that doesn'tbeautifully explain what
unschooling is, I don't knowwhat does, because it's just so
awesome.
Angela, all right, anythingelse?
Did you want to talk a littlebit about your academy?
(50:14):
Well, you did a little bitbecause we said we would put the
link in.
But anything, you know, I wantto make sure that we give that
proper attention to.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, so you know anyone who'slistening.
If you are interested inlooking for a way to support
your homeschooler, well you know, I tell people all the time.
You don't need to be enrolledin any special program to
homeschool.
Anyone can homeschoolcompletely independently.
What I will say is that PAXAcademy is a great option for
(50:44):
homeschooling, unschooling andworld schooling families.
It only costs $350 for theentire year and right now we
actually have a family specialgoing on.
So it's $600 for the entireyear and that covers all of your
tuition for the year.
It gives you access to hundredsof different resources that
you're welcome to use and then,like I said, you have access to
all these other exclusivediscounts that should more than
(51:07):
pay for the tuition.
I tell people, if you're, ifyou're doing it right, pax
Academy should more than pay foritself.
And then, especially if youhave a teen who is interested in
going on to college, we havesome really awesome partnerships
with colleges and universitiesso they can start earning
college credit beginning insixth grade and they can start
earning college and high schoolcredit, and it's at a pretty
significant discount.
(51:28):
So, yeah, I'm really interestedin helping people, and
teenagers in particular, learnhow they can hack their high
school and their collegeeducation and save tens of
thousands of dollars throughexploring all the different
options that are available.
For us as homeschooling andworld schooling families, and
then also the world schoolingpiece is really near and dear to
my heart as well, so we wereexcited about being able to
(51:48):
offer international trips to ourstudents as well, where they
can travel the world and earnhigh school and college credit,
as well as community servicehours for traveling with us.
We talked about the Guatemalatrip.
We're actually going to begoing on a week-long cruise in
May of next year and we're alsodoing a tour in Japan in 2027,
guatemala in 2026.
(52:09):
So we have a lot of really funinternational trips that are
coming up.
So if you guys are interestedin traveling the world and
exploring new places, we'd loveto have you join us.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
That's so cool.
I'll put those links in theshow's description and any
parting advice or words ofwisdom to prospective
homeschooling parents, or evenseasoned homeschooling parents.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
Yeah, I would.
I would just say enjoy everymoment.
Enjoy every moment.
You know, as they say, the daysare long but the years are
short, and that is so true.
You know you will never regretspending more time with your
children.
You will never regret it for amoment.
And spending time with yourchildren while they pursue their
passions it's like the bestthing ever.
(52:51):
It's such a beautiful journeyand I'm excited to support
anyone who's listening.
I offer free monthly Q&As aswell for people who have
questions or want to learn moreabout unschooling.
I know for a lot of people, theidea of unschooling can feel
very scary and intimidating, andso I love to be able to offer
every month.
On the last Wednesday of themonth, I do the free Q&A in
(53:12):
English, and then on the secondWednesday of the month, I do a
free Q&A in Spanish.
So if you have extra questionsand you want to come and talk
with me about unschooling Icould talk about unschooling
forever, so feel free to pop inon any any any month, on any of
those sessions.
I'd love to meet you guys andtalk to you.
It's via zoom, so I'll get ithopefully get a chance to see
your faces and answer anyquestions that you guys might
(53:32):
have about our lifestyle or thisphilosophy.
Yeah, I'm excited for you all.
It's the best thing ever andresources like this podcast are
a huge, huge, huge blessing,being an encouragement and
inspiration as you guys embarkon this beautiful journey
together.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
Angela, thank you so much for your time today.
What inspiration and just you,beautifully laid out, like just
the oh my God.
Why would we send them there?
Why would we waste theirchildhood?
They only get one childhood.
These are the most preciousyears of their life.
Why would we waste it, teachingthem things that they'll never
need to know?
That makes so much sense.
And then just hearing aboutyour daughter's experience
(54:11):
starting her business, it's likereally eye-opening.
So just thank you for sharingthat with us and I wish you the
best in all of your endeavors.
Thank you for helping out thehomeschool community the way
that you do.
Speaker 2 (54:23):
It's my pleasure, greatest honor of my life.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
Thank you for tuning into this week's episode of the
homeschool how to.
If you've enjoyed what youheard and you'd like to
contribute to the show, pleaseconsider leaving a small tip
using the link in my show'sdescription.
Or, if you'd rather, please usethe link in the description to
share this podcast with a friendor on your favorite homeschool
group Facebook page.
Any effort to help us keep thepodcast going is greatly
(54:49):
appreciated.
Thank you for tuning in and foryour love of the next
generation.
Welcome to this week's episode of the Homeschool
How-To.
I'm Cheryl and I invite you tojoin me on my quest to find out
why are people homeschooling,how do you do it, how does it
differ from region to region,and should I homeschool my kids?
Stick with me as I interviewhomeschooling families across
the country to unfold theanswers to each of these
(00:26):
questions week by week.
Welcome.
Today, I have Angela Hartershere.
Angela, thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Okay, so you and I, we spoke a few months back.
I was on your podcast.
Tell everybody what that'scalled.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
The Peaceful World Schooling Podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I love it.
And you also have a PAXUniversity right PAX Academy.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yes, PAX.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Academy.
I love this.
So there we have so much to getinto because you've kind of
done it all.
So why don't you start bytelling us what ages are your
children?
How long have you beenhomeschooling?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
My oldest is 11 and my son is 6.
And technically we've beeneducating our children at home,
without school, since the daythat they were born Technically
11 years we've beenhomeschooling.
But legally speaking, westarted right from the very
beginning when my daughter was 5.
So legally 6 years, technically11.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
What made you ever decide to homeschool in the
first place?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I had always wanted to homeschool because I had
worked for over a decade as apublic school teacher and I saw
a lot of the problems and a lotof kind of the behind the scenes
stuff that happens in a publicschool classroom and I knew that
it was not going to be the kindof environment that I would
want my children in.
But because I was a single mom,I just didn't think it would be
possible for me.
(01:44):
But it was always my desire tobe able to educate my children
myself.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
So okay.
So first, what would be like anexample of something that you
saw that you were like, yeah,I'm not doing this with my kids?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Oh, my goodness, I've taught everything from
kindergarten through 12th grade.
There was just stuff that washappening in every grade level,
just from, you know, bullying todrugs and alcohol and bad
language and negative influencesand sexual stuff.
I don't know if I could saythat on your podcast, sure.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, things like that.
And then you know those arekind of the stuff that everyone
recognizes, right, the overtlike this is bad.
You know, we don't want ourkids around bullying and these
kinds of things.
But as I started diving intoand really researching what
abuse looks like and how doesabuse appear in different types
of relationships, that wasreally what made me start
(02:38):
beginning to see the schoolsystem through a completely
different lens and I startedrealizing that the entire school
system really can only functionthrough abusive tactics such as
force and coercion, threats,manipulation, isolation, trying
to exert power and control overanother human being.
And when I started realizingthat, at that point I was like
there's no way I can continue tobe a part of this system.
(03:01):
That for the first time I wasseeing, you know, like my eyes
had been opened, that, wow,every aspect of my job as a
teacher is forcing me tointeract with students in ways
that I believe are toxic andabusive and harmful, through
force and coercion.
And so, yeah, that was when Iwas like, nope, can't do this
anymore and so I quit.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
And there's no way that that comes overnight.
So what were you know?
Briefly, like the small stepsthat got you there.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Well, my very first day as a teacher, I was teaching
Spanish one at a public highschool and it was a title one
school.
So this was the school that had.
The 99% of the population wasAfrican American.
Over 50% of the population wason free and reduced lunch, so
they were more like lower incomefamilies.
And the very first day I meanas soon as the bell rang I knew
(03:50):
that there was going to be amajor problem.
I had 30 desks in my classroom.
My smallest class size had 35students and my largest had 42.
And so for that very firstperiod, I had 42 students that
were on my roster, 30 desks, andI'm thinking what am I going to
do with all these other kidswho are not teenagers, that
aren't going to have a seat?
And there was a boy who walkedin and he was really, really
(04:11):
tall I think it was a basketballplayer or something.
He was super tall and he satdown and put his feet over the
chair in front of him andstarted like texting on his
phone.
And I went over to him and Isaid excuse me, could you please
put your feet down so someoneelse could sit in this chair?
And without even thinking, hestood up and he was I mean,
towering over me, and he waslike, started screaming at me
and was like B?
(04:32):
Who the H?
Do you think you are telling mewhat to do?
And and I was like whoa, I mean,I was 21 years old, fresh out
of college, you know.
He was only a couple yearsyounger than me and I was
terrified.
He was screaming at me and Ijust said, you know, I'm your
teacher.
And he continued screaming atme and he was like man, f this
(04:56):
class and F you.
And he picked up the desk,threw it at me and walked out of
my classroom.
And I never saw him again afterthat, until graduation day when
he walked across the stage andthey handed him a diploma, even
though he never attended myclass.
And so that was like myintroduction to teaching in the
United States.
Was this interaction with thisboy that was screaming at me and
cursing at me and throwingstuff at me and walking out of
my class without even caring?
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Did you feel like you had backing from administration
or no?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
No, not at all.
There were.
There were so many fights inthat school.
I mean we would call forsecurity and they would never
show up.
There was just so many issuesall the time.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Well then.
So you got to think of like,are the other students safe if
this is going on?
You know, not only for yoursafety but the other students as
well.
And you know, your storyreminds me of the same things
that my friend would tell meabout.
She taught in the inner cityhere in Albany, new York, and
yeah, she didn't have desks forevery student and I think they
changed out a coat closet orsomething and made it her
(05:52):
classroom.
It was ridiculous.
But then on that same summerthat they did that for her, they
also put in new carpets in theprincipal's office.
It was like you have money,you're just choosing to use it
on like new carpets to replacekind of new carpets.
(06:12):
You know it's just disgusting.
So okay, so that had to be huge.
How hard was it leaving yourjob?
I mean, you went to college forthis.
You went in what state?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
are you in?
I'm in Maryland.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Maryland.
Okay, Because in New York youhave to have a master's degree
to to teach.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, we don't have to have a master's here, but I
do have a master's degree.
But being a teacher was mydream ever since I was a little
kid, and so it was reallydifficult for me.
I think when people become ateacher, no one becomes a
teacher because we're hoping toget rich.
We're hoping to, like, havethis ginormous bank account.
Teaching truly is a passiondriven field.
People become teachers becausewe love kids.
(06:48):
We want to make a differencefor children.
Either we had a greatexperience in school and we want
to share that with others, orwe had a terrible experience in
school and we want to make thedifference for someone else.
But people become teachersbecause we want to make a
positive difference in the world, and so it was really difficult
for me, as I started realizingthat not only was violence and
stuff happening around me, butthat I was a part of
(07:11):
perpetuating that violenceagainst children by having to
force and coerce them to dothings that they didn't want to
do and that, quite frankly, theywould have no actual practical
use for in their life.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
And are you meaning like testing?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, a lot of things .
I've taught a wide range ofsubjects over the years, but in
the final years that I wasteaching I ended up teaching
algebra two at a public highschool, which you know.
My students would sit there andjust miserable.
I mean these are 15, 16, 17year old.
Most of them were boys.
In the special educationprogram they were just
struggling with math.
(07:46):
Math was not my forte, I wasterrible at math.
But they stuck me in that classbecause I was the special
education teacher and so specialeducation you don't have to be
certified in the subject tosupport in the subject, because
they have a professional mathteacher who's teaching the math.
I'm just there to kind of helpout.
And none of the other specialeducation teachers in my school
wanted to be in the math classbecause all of them were like oh
(08:08):
, that's way too hard for us.
And it just made me think, likeyou all are grown adults with
master's degrees and you'rescared to teach as an assistant
teacher in a high school mathclass.
That should say something toyou about the relevance of this
subject that we're teaching them.
But that's besides the point.
So they stuck me in there.
I was like you know what I'lldo it.
It's fine, even though I thinkI got a C in algebra too when I
(08:30):
was a student and I hadn'ttouched any of this stuff in 20
years.
But I literally would teachmyself the material the day
before I had to teach it to mystudents.
And in having to teach it tomyself, I found that I really
loved it.
I really enjoyed it.
It was fun, it was easy.
Nothing about it felt hard orchallenging for me.
Completely the opposite of myexperience in learning algebra 2
(08:50):
as a student that hated mathand was struggling in that
subject area.
And they would ask me you know,ms Harders, when are we ever
going to use this?
And you know, I think a lot ofteachers try to.
Well, you know, you got to passthese tests and you got to get
into college and you might haveto use this someday.
But that wasn't my answer.
I just I was honest with them.
I was like you know what?
You're never going to use this.
You will never have to graph aquadratic function in real life.
(09:13):
You never will.
And I apologized to them.
I said I am so sorry that Ihave to take up precious time
from your childhood, from yourlife, the best years of your
life to force you to dosomething that is completely
useless in your actual life.
I'm so sorry that I have to dothat, but this is where we are,
and so let's try to get throughit the best that we can, and
I'll help you, you know.
Get through the rest of thisyear and we're going to do great
(09:35):
and I'm going to make it as funas possible.
And they said they really likedlearning math with me, I think
because I wasn't a math teacherso I could explain it in ways
that they could understand,because math wasn't my thing,
you know.
But that was what we did.
I work with them and mystudents actually did really,
really well.
They got you know A's and B'sin the subject and ended up
finishing out the year great.
But I think a big part of thatwas just being able to be honest
(09:57):
with them.
You're not going to use this.
But those kinds of questions oflike why are we doing this?
Why are we making kids learnstuff that is absolutely useless
?
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Well, you probably know why now, because you look
into that sort of thing.
You know the dumbing peopledown create the worker bee, get
them kind of so bogged down inthis busyness that they don't
take time to step back and lookat life as a whole.
And what do I really want?
What do I want to do with mytime?
That's been the biggest thingfor me since leaving my
government job and homeschoolingthe kids is like whoa, I get to
pick what I do with my day.
(10:31):
Like this is weird.
I have not done this ever in mylife and I'm 41 now.
So I'm like we can just gokayaking if we want to go
kayaking.
And, granted, you know you needmoney.
So I do the social media stuff,just like you do, and my
husband works, so it is makingsure that I am, you know, always
(10:51):
there to watch the kids as theprimary, and you know so.
But it's interesting to just notbe told where I have to be
every day and what I have to do.
Like I'm.
I'm discovering that I likeI've literally never kayaked in
my life until last month.
And then yesterday my you know,one of the other homeschool
moms was like yeah, I got acouple of kayaks and paddle
(11:11):
boards.
Do you want to go up to thelake?
And I'm like, wow, all right, Iguess at four, 30 in the
evening we can just do that.
And it was just so weird, likewe don't have to worry about
getting dinner on the table at acertain time, we don't have to
worry about getting the kids tobed at a certain time Like it's
so weird to me, but it's soawesome too, all right.
So tell me.
So you had your daughter, wasit a daughter?
(11:33):
11 years ago?
Yes, all right, and you've beenhome with her since.
How did you do that?
You said you were a single mom.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
I am a single mom.
Yes, well, when my daughter wasfive and actually sorry, when
she was four, you know, ofcourse I didn't anticipate I
would be able to homeschool.
So I actually was teaching atthat time when she was four
years old and I was.
So I would go to school everyday and teach algebra two and
then I would come home every dayto my super passionate and
(12:00):
positive and curious andcreative four-year-old and I
think seeing the dichotomy ofthe two types of students was a
big part of me stepping away.
You know, I kept seeing likeevery day I'm coming home to
this child who's so passionateand creative and curious and
asking a million questions andloves learning.
And then every day I go toschool with these kids who've
been in this system for, youknow, 10 years, 11 years, 12
(12:22):
years, sometimes more, andthey're miserable and they're
bored and they're apathetic andthey're frustrated and they feel
like they're stupid and likethey have all these negative
experiences around learning.
And I was just like I want topreserve my child's love of
learning as long as possible.
So at the beginning I wasworking full time outside of the
school and then, after thatfirst year, just like you, I was
(12:44):
like my passion isn't to beaway from my kids all day, every
day.
I want to homeschool so I canbe with them more, and so I just
started looking for other waysto earn income and to organize
my life, just like how youmentioned creating my life in a
way that would work so that wecould really have everything
that we wanted.
And what I wanted was to beable to be home full time with
(13:04):
my kids and to earn a living,while I could also be here with
her.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
So how did you do that?
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Goodness, I've done a lot of things over the years I
have.
After I, immediately after Ileft teaching, I actually
started a business in my homewhere I would take care of other
people's kids who were, likethe parents had to work but they
wanted their kids to well, theydidn't want to send their kids
to school, and so I kind of itwas, I guess, like daycare for
(13:29):
the older kids, for school agekids, and that worked out really
great at the very beginningbecause I mean, with six kids, I
was able to replace my teachersalary and I was able to be
fully present with my kids andwe would like go to parks and
playgrounds and field trips andall this stuff every day, and
she got to be around other kidsand we could learn in a really
small group and have thatfreedom and flexibility.
(13:49):
So I really enjoyed that and soI did that for two years and
then after the second year, mydaughter was like Mom, I'm kind
of tired of having kids playwith my toys all the time, and
so I just started looking forother things to do at that point
.
So I did investing in realestate.
I've done private tutoring.
I have done piano lessons, swimlessons, selling stuff on
(14:18):
Facebook marketplace, investingin crypto, like all kinds of
different stuff.
But now what I do is I actuallyrun two different homeschooling
organizations.
The first one is calledPeaceful World Schoolers and
that is a nonprofit where we doweekly field trips and events
for families all over.
We started out in Maryland butstarting this year in September,
we're actually going to beexpanding into over 20 different
states and three differentcountries.
So we have parent mom you know,homeschool mom volunteers that
(14:41):
plan amazing field trips andevents all over the place.
So if you want to check out ourgroups, you can join
peacefulworldschoolerscom.
It's totally free.
You can join a local group nearyou, and if you don't have a
local group near you, feel freeto let me know and I'll be happy
to help you start one.
But it's an awesome way to justbuild community, because we
really do believe that the bestlearning that our children can
(15:02):
do is when they're exploring thereal life and the real world
with real people and realexperts in all their fields and
with real friends and a realcommunity.
So yeah, so that's PeacefulWorld Schoolers.
And then the second part that Ido is I started a private
school for unschoolers, forhomeschoolers and unschoolers,
and it's called PAX Academy.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
So that's what I do now, and is that that's a
physical location that people goto?
Speaker 2 (15:25):
So PAX Academy, it's a private school for
homeschoolers and unschoolersand world schoolers, so we don't
operate a physical location.
We provide the legal coveringof families to be enrolled in a
private school with the freedomto unschool, and so basically,
we handle the legal paperwork ofall the things.
So we issue transcripts anddiplomas, we provide hundreds of
resources for families to useand then, because you're
(15:47):
enrolling in a private school,the parents are actually
considered teachers with aprivate school and so they can
use their PAX Academy teacherdiscount at any store that
offers discounts for teachers.
My family and I we actuallywere able to take a week-long
cruise to Mexico and we used myPAX Academy discount to get the
cruise for free.
So that was fun.
But, yeah, we get free stuffand we get free entrance in
(16:08):
museums and discounts on artsupplies and movies and all
kinds of different things.
Yeah, so that's what we do now.
So we have students that arefrom all 50 states and we can
accept students from almostevery country in the world.
Currently, we have studentsfrom four different countries.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
That's so cool.
I will put links to all of thatin the show's description so
people can pop in and see whatworks for them.
I mean, that is so cool.
I don't even know where tobegin to ask you how you thought
of that.
So let's just get into whatyour day looks like with your
kids homeschooling.
I hear this all the time.
I can't homeschool for middleschool and up.
I'm not a science teacher.
(16:45):
I can't teach writing.
But, friend, homeschoolingdoesn't mean doing it alone.
Let me tell you about ExcelsiorClasses, a live online
Christian homeschool programwith accredited teachers who
love what they teach.
Your middle schooler or highschooler can take biology,
(17:07):
chemistry, digs in scriptures,world geography, writing club in
a full course curriculum orjust one class at a time.
Fall registration is now openand classes fill up fast.
Visit excelsiourclassescom tohelp your teen thrive.
Today you can grab the link inmy show's description.
What does the day-to-day?
You're obviously busy, butyou're unschooling too, right?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yeah.
So when we first started outour homeschool journey, I had
anticipated homeschooling Ithink, the way that most people
think of homeschooling by doingschool at home.
In fact, I was so proud ofmyself I created this whole
schedule that we were going todo 30 minutes of reading and 30
minutes of math and 30 minutesof science, and I was so proud
of myself that I had actuallybuilt in 30 minutes of math and
30 minutes of science.
And and I was so proud ofmyself that I had actually built
(17:46):
in 30 minutes for recess.
And I laugh at looking back atthat now, but you know, I was so
proud at that moment because itwas like, oh, my daughter's
gonna get 30 whole minutes forrecess in the middle of our day,
because the public school kidshere they only get 15 minutes
for recess, you know, and Ithought that was going to be
such a great, a great thing thatmy daughter could have 30 whole
(18:07):
minutes of recess.
And so that was what I hadinitially planned, or what I
imagined that homeschooling wassupposed to look like.
Thank God, I never actually gotto follow through with that
plan because shortly before weofficially started our
homeschool year, I posted in aFacebook group and asked other
homeschooling moms you know, ifyou could give any advice to a
new homeschooling mom, whatwould you say?
And I got hundreds of commentsback from all these different
(18:30):
women and moms and there was onecomment in particular that
stuck out to me Someone I wish Iknew who it was.
She left me a comment with twowords.
She said research, unschooling.
And I had no idea at the timehow those two words would
completely transform my life andmy family and my view on
learning and school and theentire world and my relationship
(18:52):
with my children.
And so, yeah, that kind ofstarted us on our journey.
I started researching aboutunschooling and I was very
skeptical, but at the same timeI was very intrigued.
You know, I spent a lot ofyears as a public school teacher
, as a reading teacher, and Iwas very intrigued with this
idea that children could learnhow to read without being
explicitly taught that idea.
(19:13):
I had heard a lot ofunschoolers say that, but I did
not think that that was possible.
I did not believe that thatcould be true, and so I wanted
to see for myself, and so thatwas kind of how we stumbled into
unschooling.
I just I committed for herkindergarten year.
I said okay for this one yearof kindergarten on purpose.
I am not going to teach mydaughter anything.
(19:35):
I am going to, instead ofviewing myself as the teacher of
my child, I'm going to begin toview myself as the best student
of my child, and I'm going todo that for one year.
Then'm going to learn all I canabout this unique human being
that God has given me to raise,and we'll see what happens at
the end of the year.
Tell us Honestly, my mind wascompletely blown.
I was shocked.
If you had told me you knowagain before that a kid could
(19:58):
learn how to read without beingtaught, I would have been like
there's no way.
I mean, I was a reading teacher.
That was my whole job wasteaching kids how to read.
And no, I was wrong.
My daughter absolutely.
By the end of that year she wasreading completely on her own.
I have no idea how thathappened, because I did not
teach her.
We did not do a phonics lesson,we didn't do a workbook, a
worksheet, a curriculum, likenothing.
(20:19):
We did nothing that year andsomehow, by the end of that year
, so did you read books together, though like read aloud?
We did yeah, I mean read nothingthat was outside of the
ordinary of, like, our normallife, like I always watch the TV
with subtitles, or before wewould go to bed we'd cuddle and
read a book together.
But I was never like you know,we're going to today's a day,
(20:42):
you know, it wasn't like that.
There was.
There were no like OK, we'regoing to practice this phonics
worksheet Nothing that I wouldtypically use as a reading
teacher, any of the strategiesthat I would use as a reading
teacher.
I didn't do any of that.
I really was very intentionalto like I am not going to teach
my daughter how to read becauseI want to see if she can really
do it herself, and I know thatprobably sounds crazy to a lot
(21:02):
of people, but I figured, if I'mever going to know for myself
if it's possible, I have to bewilling to do the experiment
myself, and so that's what I did.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, for sure.
And I mean I'm on like I I'veresearched a little bit of
unschooling.
I'm sure there's a little bitmore I could research.
But to me it's like the you'reliving your life Right and as
things come up that you see likethe child led interest, sort of
thing, then you might take outsome books from the library or
documentary, do a little bit ofresearch on that, or if it's
(21:34):
something that I findinteresting because I'm like
maybe if I get excited about itthey will too.
But I have done the phonics withmy son.
I have done the readingprograms.
He's still not reading.
I mean he just turned seventhis week, but that's okay,
because I know that places likeFinland they don't do anything
formal until age seven and it'snot like I've been hardcore.
I've taken months off where wehaven't done anything.
(21:56):
I've tried all differentcurriculums and I'm like man, is
this kid dyslexic or something?
I've gotten him checked.
He is not.
But boys they kind of mightmature a little bit slower and
it doesn't really mean anything.
So I try very hard to exposehim to the phonics and whatnot,
(22:16):
but not make it an overwhelmingevery day, like if something
else is going on, you know, liketoday, for instance.
He was up early so I said let'sget some of your reading
horizons.
Is the program he's using rightnow.
Let's get some of that doneWithin the, the program he's
using right now.
Let's get some of that doneWithin the first five minutes.
His friends showed up to comeover for the day and it was like
, ok, well, put it away, youknow, because you're going to be
doing things, you know, playingwith the kids, just so people
(22:39):
know that it's not guaranteedyour child will learn in the
first grade year, but girlsprobably more easily, I would
want to believe, because my sonis like jumping off the walls
all the time.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah, I mean, and we see that a lot both in
homeschool and in regular school, right Like I think a lot of it
has to do with the preferredmethod of learning.
Like I think girls are a littlebit more willing to kind of sit
down and learn through a morecalm and passive way, whereas a
lot of boys need to learnthrough their whole body, like
they're very physical, and theyneed to learn through movement,
(23:15):
they need to learn through, liketouching things and actually
doing things with their hands.
And I think, you know, when itcomes to reading, this was a
really big concern for me.
You know, I was like, oh gosh,what if I'm the only reading
teacher in the world with a kidwho doesn't know how to read,
you know.
But more than anything, again,I was while I was doing all of
this.
You know, my daughter was five,I was still teaching and and I
(23:35):
would go to school and I wouldsee these teenagers and they
hated reading and I I justremember coming home and I would
say what is the point?
Right, like, what is the point?
Reading is a tool.
If I have a tool but I have nopurpose for this tool and I
don't see the value in this tool, then what does it matter if I
have a tool?
(23:56):
I mean, my dad passed away acouple years ago and he has a
whole man cave in our garagewith it's full of tools, and
when we would go in there and Imean there's tools in there, I'm
like I don't even know whatthis is, I don't know what this
is for, I don't know what thisdoes Like, and there's probably
thousands of dollars worth oftools that is in his little man
cave, but it doesn't matter.
I mean, I've got plenty oftools in there, but if I don't,
(24:18):
if I don't know how to use themand I don't have a purpose to
use them and I don't have anydesire to use them like matter,
you know, and I think a lot oftimes we treat reading like that
in the school system as likehere's this tool, you have to
have this tool.
But when you force children toread things that they don't have
a passion for and they don'thave a purpose for and they're
(24:38):
not interested in, there's nofaster way to kill a child's
love of reading than by doingthat.
And that's literally what Iwould see happen every day with
my students.
And then they get to be, youknow, high school students and
they're like, oh, I can't waitto graduate, I will never touch
a book again, you know.
It's like, okay, well, what isthe point then of forcing them
to read all these years if, forthem, reading is just something
that's miserable and difficultand boring and frustrating and
(25:02):
totally not interesting for themat all?
I'm like, I don't want that.
I want my children to lovereading rather than knowing how
to just have the tool, like Iwant them to love the tool.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, and it is hard, Because now I look back at life
and you know I was not a reader.
I mean, there were books I readover the years, but there are
some people that always have,you know, a book that they are
in the midst of reading.
It would be like one year forme and I'm like man, I want to
be one of those people that likereading.
I just don't.
And just like you said it was,I remember reading class in
(25:33):
sixth grade and wanting to readthe Goosebumps book and they
told me, no, you can't read that.
You know, it's got to be one ofthe other books that they had
on their shelves and they wereall boring and nothing I was
interested in.
So I just, I just sat therewith a book open and stared at
the clock and was like, allright, I guess this is what I'll
do instead, because I didn'twant to read what they wanted me
(25:55):
to.
You know, yeah, why kill thepassion, Right?
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Exactly, and it's like I would rather my child
discover what kinds of booksthat they actually enjoy reading
than by me just trying to forcethem to read a book because
that's what's next in thecurriculum reading, than by me
just trying to force them toread a book because that's
what's next in the curriculum.
You know, like that, that justI don't know.
That never made sense to me.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
So do you do any curriculum with your kids?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Nope, we've never done any curriculum.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
So cool.
So do you all?
Right, this is a great one.
How do you, I guess, workthrough the situations that
arise, maybe with a familymember, cousins or whatnot, who
are, you know, reading or doinga certain level math that your
kids are not at yet becausethey're not in the standard
(26:37):
grade levels?
Right, how do you approach that?
Because there is an insecurityin us parents that are like, oh,
like, I know what I'm doingbecause I research it, but they
don't know what I'm doing andthey just think I'm being lazy.
How do you approach that?
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah, I think unschooling, while the word for
a lot of people might beterrifying or just like new, the
practice of it really isn't.
You know, unschooling is whatwe did before our children
started school and it's what wedo now as adults, now that we're
out of school, right Like sinceI've left school.
And since you've left school,you've probably learned some
(27:13):
things you know and you didn'tlearn them because you had a
curriculum or a teacher that wastelling you what to learn and
how to learn it in the order youneeded to learn.
Is that correct?
Speaker 1 (27:21):
That is correct.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yeah, so how did you learn, like, how do you learn
the things that you need tolearn now as an adult?
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Jeez.
So like how to do a podcast orrun an Instagram page?
Yeah, you watch some YouTubevideos or read the comments
section of a Facebook page.
No trial and error.
Hire a you know off of, likeFiverr, which you know.
You can hire a freelance personthat specializes in that area,
(27:48):
you know, maybe gleam somethings off of them, but you
don't have to know all of thenuances.
You can hire people out for thethings that you don't know.
So, yeah, I would say askingchat, gpt, even though we might
be giving me what the governmentwants me to know.
But that's all right, somethings are useful.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Yeah, yeah, and all of that is is awesome, I mean,
and that's what all of us know,right, and it's like you know
how to do things that I don'tknow how to do, and I know how
to do things that you don't knowhow to do, and that's OK.
Like we, no one in the worldwould expect all of us to know
all the same things of like, hey, I'm in grade 35, now you know
(28:34):
I'm in grade 35.
Like, have you bought yourhouse, yet have you paid off
your mortgage?
Yet that happens in level 40.
You know, like, no one, no onetalks like that, no one thinks
like that, no one operates likethat, and yet we think that
that's how it has to be, from Kthrough 12.
And so, like, are there thingsthat my daughter doesn't know,
that she would know if she's inschool?
Yes, I'll give you a primeexample.
I was talking about this withsomeone the other day.
Actually, I know that mydaughter does not know how to
divide fractions, right, shedoes not know how to do that.
And, and I asked this personshould I be worried that my 11
(28:58):
year old does not know how todivide a fraction?
Should I be worried about that?
I'm curious what do you think?
Should I be concerned?
Speaker 1 (29:04):
well, you know what?
Now that you bring up, like, doyou need to know that later in
life and telling your kids, I'msorry I'm wasting your childhood
with this because you won'tneed it in life?
Like I'm trying to think of thelast time I divided a fraction.
Like, gee, there's some pizzathat's cut up and I need to know
how many kids to give it to.
I don't know.
But no, never in the workforce.
(29:25):
I worked for the government for16 years.
I never needed to know how todivide a fraction.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Never, and that's in the fourth grade curriculum,
right?
So this is a fourth gradecurriculum that they're supposed
to learn how to dividefractions, right?
My daughter does not know howto do that and I'm not worried
about it for all the reasonsthat you said.
I'm like, honestly, I can'teven think of a situation in
real life where I've ever had todivide a fraction, like in my
entire adult life.
I don't think I've ever donethat, and if there was a need
(29:53):
for me to ever divide a fraction, I have a tool in my hand that
could literally do it perfectlyevery single time, in 0.2
seconds, right?
So what does that say to me,the fact that my daughter
doesn't know how to divide afraction?
It doesn't mean she's behind.
It doesn't mean she's behind.
It doesn't mean that she's slow.
It doesn't mean that she's dumbor she'll never learn how to do
that.
All that it means is that thatskill has not shown up in her
(30:15):
actual real life yet, and that'sokay, that's it.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Yes, it's not relevant to her life yet, so
there's no need to know it.
Because the schools need toknow it, because they need a
measure of what we accomplishedthroughout the day and year so
that funding can be, you know,attributed to this area, that
area.
You know, that's really it.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
It does not take 13 years to do math.
This was actually a bigquestion that I had when I first
started unschooling.
Those were my two big concerns.
I was worried how is mydaughter going to read if I
don't teach her?
And how is my daughter going tolearn algebra two again,
because I was the algebra twoteacher.
I'm like no one out here isgraphing quadratic functions for
fun, right.
So how do you learn thesehigher levels of math as an
unschooler?
(30:55):
And so I actually startedinterviewing grown unschoolers,
like people who had grown upwith this philosophy, and I
asked them those two questionshow did you learn how to read
without being taught, and howdid you learn all the math that
you needed to go to college?
13 years of math as anunschooler.
And guess how long they told meit took them to learn 13 years
(31:16):
of math as an unschooler Fiveyears, good, guess I was.
I had guessed one year, butevery single grown unschooler
that I interviewed said thatthey learned 13 years of math in
six months or less.
Every single one.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
And it's funny because when I think back to,
like, what math did I take inschool?
You know, obviously you takeaddition, subtraction,
multiplication, division, andthen there's the algebras, where
all I know is that you have aletter in place of a number that
you have to solve, for there'sprobably percentages somewhere.
I don't remember ever takinglike trigonometry, maybe I doubt
(31:50):
it Calculus I don't remember athing about it.
Maybe is that pi 3.14?
But what does that even mean?
It's not relevant to my life atall.
It's never come up.
Yeah, what did we spend?
13?
Speaker 2 (32:02):
It's a really valid question, I think you know, and
asking ourselves that questionLike and you know, when I first
started asking grown unschoolersthis question, like how long
did it take you?
If you hear one person say, oh,it took me six months to learn
13 years of math, I'd be like,okay, maybe you're like some
kind of freak genius and you didthat.
But I interviewed easily over50 grown unschoolers and every
(32:24):
single one of them told me sixmonths or less.
And the last lady that I askedthis question to, I asked her
how long it took her.
She said that when she wasgetting ready to go to college,
she had to take a college levelmath placement test because she
wanted I can't remember what shewanted to do, but she wanted to
do some career that requiredher to go to college, and so in
order to get into the college,she had to take the math
(32:44):
placement test.
And so she studied for twoweeks before doing this math
placement test.
Two weeks and that was it.
She, like hyper-focused,studied for two weeks after
never having any formal mathtraining whatsoever in her
entire life.
Studied for two weeks.
Not only did she pass thecollege level math entrance exam
, but they placed her insophomore level math in college
(33:05):
after two weeks of studying.
And these are people that didn'tlike math, right?
Because if they would haveliked math then they would have
been doing it all along.
Because, as unschoolers, you dowhat you love right?
So these are people who weren'tinterested in math whatsoever
until they had a purpose for it.
And then, once they had apurpose for it, now they have a
(33:25):
reason to learn it.
They learn it really quickly,they learn it really easily.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
They learn it just goes back to you apologizing to
these kids, saying I'm sorry I'mwasting your childhood with
this.
You're never going to need it.
Oh my God, what a waste of time.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
I know, I know, and how many parents right Like and
when I started hearing thesestories I started reflecting on
that.
I'm like how many parents havewasted so many precious hours in
their evening after schoolfighting with their kids about
math homework?
Evening after school fightingwith their kids about math
homework like arguing with themabout studying for a math test
or the grades that they got orwhatever, on some stupid math
(34:03):
whatever or something.
For 13 years they've beenfighting with their kids about
math homework and the kids feelstupid and they feel frustrated
and they feel bored and they'relike confused and lost and and
all of these like negativethings.
When we could have avoided allof that and just given them the
freedom to pursue what they loveand then, when they were ready
or had a reason to learn thathigher level math, they'd learn
it in six months or lessthinking about homeschooling but
(34:26):
don't know where to start.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
well, I've interviewed a few people on the
topic actually 120 interviews atthis point with homeschooling
families from across the countryand the world and what I've
done is I've packed everythingI've learned into an ebook
called the Homeschool How-ToComplete Starter Guide.
From navigating your state'slaws to finding your
homeschooling style, fromworking while homeschooling to
supporting kids with specialneeds, this guide covers it all,
(34:50):
with real stories from realfamilies who've walked this path
.
I've taken the best insights,the best resources and put them
all into this guide.
I've taken the best insights,the best resources and put them
all into this guide.
Stop feeling overwhelmed andstart feeling confident.
Get your copy of the HomeschoolHow-To Complete Starter Guide
today and discover thathomeschooling isn't just about
education.
It's about getting what youwant out of each day, not what
somebody else wants out of you.
(35:11):
You can grab the link to thisebook in the show's description
or head on over tothehomeschoolhowtocom.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Like why would anyone choose to be miserable for 13
years?
Speaker 1 (35:21):
You know what I mean?
Well, because the system hasdesigned it that way to make us
think that we need to be right,like yeah, I mean it was eye
opening for me to realize, and Ithink it took a matter of years
to like slowly decompress fromthat system.
And yeah, like under you almosthave to get mad to like, oh my
(35:43):
god, you wasted so much time ofmine.
But do you see like ahomeschool revolution or an
unschool revolution going on inthe world right now?
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Absolutely.
The more that I do this, themore I'm convinced that
unschooling or self-directededucation is the future of
education.
Nothing else makes sense to me.
It does not make sense for meto force my children to waste
the best years of their life onthings that are completely
worthless to them and to destroya relationship in the process,
make them miserable in theprocess, make them feel, you
(36:14):
know, frustrated and all theseother things in the process.
No, when we can choose to livein a way and they can learn in a
way that is full of joy, thatis full of passion, that is full
of purpose, that is full oflove and patience and peace and
no stress, who wouldn't wantthis?
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Well, you haven't lived in my household,
especially with myseven-year-old boy and all of
his seven-year-old friends.
Peace and stress-free isn'texactly what I'd say.
But you know what was reallysweet All the boys today.
I made dinner and I go okay,who's eating here?
And I just put, you know,plates of food out on our screen
porch and they all go.
Oh, I am, I am, I am and theyall come over to eat and I go.
(36:54):
My husband goes.
You know you don't have to feedeverybody.
You fed him lunch.
Why are you feeding him dinnertoo?
I go, you know what?
Because I didn't grow up likethis.
I didn't grow up in a householdthat people wanted to be at,
and it is as stressful as it isto like, make sure this one's
not killing that one and thisone's not flying a dirt bike
into a tree, and you know likeit is nice to have the place
(37:16):
where, like, people want to beand your kids want to be, and
you know.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
And food does that right.
Like food is such a uniter, youknow, like in just bringing
people together and making youfeel comfortable and at home,
and that's so cool and I'm sureyour children are going to look
back on that and be so thankfulthat you took the time to do
that, to look back on that andbe so thankful that you took the
time to to do that like thetime, the money and the effort
to offer lunch and dinner totheir friends so that they can
(37:42):
stay and enjoy a little bitlonger with you guys.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
What a gift yeah, I hope, I hope they.
I keep saying I want my kids,in order to get my kids to
appreciate what I do, I want tolike drop them off into, like
the inner city for three days.
Not that there isn't love andstuff there, but there is
probably not the dirt bikes, thefour wheelers that you know,
all the things.
Like my son pouted today CauseI was like you're done with the
(38:04):
dirt bike, I need you to be moreresponsible and I just at this
point I feel like when you gethurt on it, it's no longer your
fault, it's mine, cause Irecognized the signs that you
weren't mature enough for it yet.
And, oh my God, he pouted forso long because all he had to
ride was the four wheeler.
I'm like, are you kidding me?
Like this isn't the kid I'mtrying to raise.
I want to raise like someonewho is appreciative.
(38:27):
So I got to find like missionwork or something we can go on.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
So we're actually we're going to be going to
Guatemala next year and actuallyone of the reasons why we're
going to Guatemala is exactlywhat you're talking about.
I went on my first mission tripwhen I was 12 years old and we
went and volunteered at like anorphanage there, and we're
actually going to be going backto one of the orphanages that I
volunteered at with my kids andwe're leading a group of
(38:52):
peaceful world schoolers and so,yeah, our students are getting
community service hours and theycan also get high school and
college credit for travelingwith us.
But but what you were talkingabout is literally the goal.
Like I want my children to seethat there are people in the
world that don't live the waythat we do, that don't have the
blessings that we have, and andreally have that eye opening
experience that I had when I was12.
(39:13):
They're like, oh my gosh, likethere are people in the world
that are literally living incardboard boxes and don't have
water and don't have electricityand like this is not like what
I'm used to, and so I can begrateful for my four wheeler and
grateful for my house and mybed, and you know, like all
these other things, that that,for so many other people, is
such a luxury, so you shouldcome with us to Guatemala next
(39:35):
year.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Hey, send me the information.
I will definitely look thatover.
I am a chicken but I think Icould.
I could do it.
It's funny because I rememberthe same friend that that worked
in the inner city school.
That was in like this tinylittle room that I was talking
about earlier, with more kidsthan desks.
I remember her telling me aboutone of her trips that she had
to do.
I think it was for school.
Maybe she had to do.
(39:56):
I think it was for school.
Maybe she had to teach abroad.
And she said, Cheryl, thesekids they were playing in like a
dump, like a garbage dump.
That was their playground.
They were the happiest kidsI've ever seen in my whole life,
like more happy than any childin America she has ever seen.
I don't know what country shewas in, but that's always stuck
(40:16):
with me.
What did you see working in theschool system as far as that
goes, the appreciativeness orjust the happiness level or
depression level and what didyou change for your kids?
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Oh gosh.
Well, I mean, mental health isa huge problem in schools
nowadays.
So many kids, I mean.
We had students even inelementary school that they were
putting them on second graderson anti-anxiety medication and
I'm like, why is a second graderon anti-anxiety medication Like
you should be playing and happy, like these are the best, the
(40:50):
best years.
Right, you're seven.
What are you anxious about that?
You need to be drugged to likefunction, you know, and yeah.
So a lot of the mental healthissues are a major problem in
school.
But actually one of my years asa teacher, I took my students
from that.
The first high school that Itaught at, largo High School is
again, you know, low incomeschool and I took a group of
(41:10):
students there were like 25 ofus and we went to Guatemala and
they served, and so over springbreak we spent our spring break
serving in Guatemala.
We were digging wells forpeople who didn't have water.
We were digging holes to helpthem plant food and teach them
how to like grow their ownfruits and vegetables.
We played with the kids at theorphanage.
We served food to families thatwere living in literally in the
(41:30):
dump.
Like your friend mentioned,they're entire families that
literally just live in the dumpsand they'll sleep in, you know,
whole family in a cardboard boxin the dump, and so we served
food there.
We brought like clothes and foodand shoes and all kinds of
stuff and yeah, so we did thatfor our spring break and every
single one of those kids saidthat that trip was one of the
(41:53):
most life-changing experiencesthat they ever had.
And it was so interesting tolike come back to the United
States with these kids who werestruggling with poverty here in
the United States but to be ableto go there and see like that
level of poverty was like okay,I really don't have it that bad.
And I and they came back I meana lot of them just like cried
and hugged their parents in theairport and they were like thank
(42:14):
you so much for all you do forus, for everything like that
you've done for us, and itreally was like a life
transforming experience.
So I hope to be able to helpmore students have that similar
experience of being able to justhave your eyes open to what the
real world is like for so manyother people and how we can
serve and love people in otherplaces and other countries and
(42:35):
build those bridges.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
So yeah, yeah, and it's interesting too that we're
teaching them how to grow foodwhen most of the people in
america now don't even know howto do that, and you'd think that
the third world countries arethat's what they do to get by so
that they would know.
But how?
How crazy is that?
Do you ever stop and thinkabout that?
That?
All of the what did you call it?
The quadratic or the?
(42:57):
The calc, the graphing yeah,all of the what did you call it?
The quadratic or the graphing?
Yeah, all of the stuff that youmentioned for math.
We're spending all this timeteaching kids this stuff, but
yet we're not teaching them howto grow food, find shelter, find
clean water, how taxes actuallywork, like if you're a business
owner.
Inflation, really, inflationreally works Like they never.
(43:17):
They might've talked a littlebit about interest, but they
never talked about compoundinterest and what you're
actually paying back over thelife of a car loan or a home
loan, or how to invest money.
Is that?
Speaker 2 (43:30):
a little crazy to you .
I mean, it is crazy.
It's, you know, like when wethink about it, someone out
there, some politician, decidedthat, like, at this age, this is
what this child needs to know,just because they're this old,
right.
And then we all just think thatthat's normal.
And it's like who decided thatquadratic equations was going to
(43:51):
be the thing for like, a 15year old?
You know, it's like you're 15now.
Now it's quadratic equationtime, like, like, who said that
that would take priority overall those things that you
mentioned?
I'm like learning how to growyour own food would be
infinitely more valuable thanthat.
Learning how to start abusiness would be infinitely
more valuable.
Sorry, we got a big storm overhere.
I don't know if you could hearthat.
Yes, I could.
(44:11):
Yeah, but yeah, like learningall of those practical, like
learning how to cook food.
(44:58):
No-transcript wanted to have adog and, of course, as a single
mom, I was like I do not need anextra expense in my life.
Like I can barely afford tokeep us afloat and we're going
to not, you know, take on anadditional payment every month
to pay for this dog.
And so she came back and shesaid all right, mom, if we can't
(45:20):
have a dog, then could I starta business where I take care of
other people's dogs?
And she was like then otherpeople could pay me to take care
of their dog.
And I was like, oh my gosh, Idon't know if you can hear that
that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Wait, what state did you say you were in?
Again, I'm in.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Maryland.
It is so that storm is crazyloud.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
The government is cloud seeding above Maryland
tonight.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Yeah, well, this whole week it's like been crazy.
I'm like what is going on here?
And then we've had all theflash flood warnings and
everything this week.
I know this is totally offtopic, so are we able to cut
this out?
No, it's not, because thegovernment's still probably
behind it.
No, truly.
But yeah, it's been crazy thisweek.
Sorry about all the thunder inthe background, but anyways,
yeah.
So, anyways, my daughter mydaughter basically was like you
(46:02):
know, if, if we can't have it beas an expense for us, then can
I start a business where I takecare of other people's dogs and
that way other people will payme to take care of their dogs
and then it's not costing youmoney, we're making money.
And I was like you know what?
I didn't really have a goodreason to say no to that.
So I was like all right, let'sgive it a try.
And so she started a businesson Rover which is like an app
(46:24):
where you can find dog sitters.
And so she created her profileand I had to help her because
you know, you have to be 18 toregister on the thing.
So technically, I started thatpiece of it, but we talked about
starting a profile and gettingphotos of the clients and
communicating with the clients,and actually out of her starting
her business, a lot of thatmath piece came in, because we
(46:45):
would talk about, ok, how muchdo you want to charge and how
much do you want to charge perday and what kind of dogs do you
want to take, and like justreally being picky about the
kind of clients that she wanted.
And then we started asking youknow, as she goes she would
learn okay, I really don't wantto have really big dogs because
they ate our chickens.
So they were like, okay, we'renot going to have big dogs
anymore, we're just going to dothe little dogs.
And so we, you know, starteddoing little dogs.
(47:06):
And then she would like writeon a clipboard of like questions
that she wanted to ask everytime we would have a new client,
we do a meet and greet, and soshe would again practice like
writing where she'd write downher questions.
She wanted to ask them andtheir answers.
And then she really startedgetting the entrepreneurial
mindset.
She started out charging Ithink it was like $50 a day to
take care of other people's dogs, and she had little friends
(47:26):
that were, you know, youngerthan her, so she was seven at
the time and her friend was five, and my daughter hated picking
up the poop right, but of course, if you want to have a business
and you want to take care ofdogs, you have to do stuff that
you don't always like to do.
So she'd have to pick up thepoop.
And eventually her friend, whowas five, was like hey, I want
to help with your business.
And so she said you know what?
(47:47):
I'll pay you $5 to pick up thepoop.
And so whenever she would havea client, she would pay her
friends $5 to pick up the poop.
And she was like Mom, did youknow that if I pay her $5 to
clean up the poop, I'll stillhave $45 left over?
And and even though I'm notdoing the dirty work, and I was
like that's entrepreneurship,like that's how it works.
(48:07):
You pay people to do the stuffthat you either don't want to do
or you can't do and you keepthe profits right.
Like that's, that's how runninga business works.
So, without having to do youknow again, no, buying a
curriculum, carry today'sentrepreneurship day.
We're going to learn profit andloss and employees and all that
.
Like no, she just it happenedin her life and she figured it
out on her own and and yeah, andso now you know what, four
(48:29):
years later, she's got like awhole book of business and like
repeat clients Actually, we haveanother repeat client who's
going to be coming next week andyeah, so she's got her little
business going.
And then she took the profitsfrom that business and decided
that she wanted to start apopsicle business with one of
her best friends and there wereno popsicles that had like.
(48:51):
She wanted to create popsiclesthat were made with with raw
milk and organic fruit and hadno added sugar, and so, yeah, so
that was what she did.
So they're really, really,really yummy and yeah, and they
sell popsicles at like sportsevents and at their homeschool
group and all kinds of things.
But it was really cool to see,like, how they took their
(49:12):
profits from one business to beable to buy the materials that
they needed to start thispopsicle business.
And my daughter's real passionis art, and so they were really
excited about coming up with allthe creative flavors for the
different popsicle flavorcombinations that they were
going to do, and they createdlittle characters, and so they
drew on Procreate with all thedigital logos and created
(49:35):
characters with all these namesand they printed out stickers
and t-shirts and this wholething for the popsicle business.
So through all of that, it'slike they're learning all these
really valuable skills whilethey're pursuing the things that
they really love and enjoy, andso, yeah, it's a really
beautiful thing to see.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
Amazing.
They are learning so much and,like you said, it's relevant to
them.
They're seeing the profit, thebenefit of it, the relevance to
their life.
I mean, if that doesn'tbeautifully explain what
unschooling is, I don't knowwhat does, because it's just so
awesome.
Angela, all right, anythingelse?
Did you want to talk a littlebit about your academy?
(50:14):
Well, you did a little bitbecause we said we would put the
link in.
But anything, you know, I wantto make sure that we give that
proper attention to.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, so you know anyone who'slistening.
If you are interested inlooking for a way to support
your homeschooler, well you know, I tell people all the time.
You don't need to be enrolledin any special program to
homeschool.
Anyone can homeschoolcompletely independently.
What I will say is that PAXAcademy is a great option for
(50:44):
homeschooling, unschooling andworld schooling families.
It only costs $350 for theentire year and right now we
actually have a family specialgoing on.
So it's $600 for the entireyear and that covers all of your
tuition for the year.
It gives you access to hundredsof different resources that
you're welcome to use and then,like I said, you have access to
all these other exclusivediscounts that should more than
(51:07):
pay for the tuition.
I tell people, if you're, ifyou're doing it right, pax
Academy should more than pay foritself.
And then, especially if youhave a teen who is interested in
going on to college, we havesome really awesome partnerships
with colleges and universitiesso they can start earning
college credit beginning insixth grade and they can start
earning college and high schoolcredit, and it's at a pretty
significant discount.
(51:28):
So, yeah, I'm really interestedin helping people, and
teenagers in particular, learnhow they can hack their high
school and their collegeeducation and save tens of
thousands of dollars throughexploring all the different
options that are available.
For us as homeschooling andworld schooling families, and
then also the world schoolingpiece is really near and dear to
my heart as well, so we wereexcited about being able to
(51:48):
offer international trips to ourstudents as well, where they
can travel the world and earnhigh school and college credit,
as well as community servicehours for traveling with us.
We talked about the Guatemalatrip.
We're actually going to begoing on a week-long cruise in
May of next year and we're alsodoing a tour in Japan in 2027,
guatemala in 2026.
(52:09):
So we have a lot of really funinternational trips that are
coming up.
So if you guys are interestedin traveling the world and
exploring new places, we'd loveto have you join us.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
That's so cool.
I'll put those links in theshow's description and any
parting advice or words ofwisdom to prospective
homeschooling parents, or evenseasoned homeschooling parents.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
Yeah, I would.
I would just say enjoy everymoment.
Enjoy every moment.
You know, as they say, the daysare long but the years are
short, and that is so true.
You know you will never regretspending more time with your
children.
You will never regret it for amoment.
And spending time with yourchildren while they pursue their
passions it's like the bestthing ever.
(52:51):
It's such a beautiful journeyand I'm excited to support
anyone who's listening.
I offer free monthly Q&As aswell for people who have
questions or want to learn moreabout unschooling.
I know for a lot of people, theidea of unschooling can feel
very scary and intimidating, andso I love to be able to offer
every month.
On the last Wednesday of themonth, I do the free Q&A in
(53:12):
English, and then on the secondWednesday of the month, I do a
free Q&A in Spanish.
So if you have extra questionsand you want to come and talk
with me about unschooling Icould talk about unschooling
forever, so feel free to pop inon any any any month, on any of
those sessions.
I'd love to meet you guys andtalk to you.
It's via zoom, so I'll get ithopefully get a chance to see
your faces and answer anyquestions that you guys might
(53:32):
have about our lifestyle or thisphilosophy.
Yeah, I'm excited for you all.
It's the best thing ever andresources like this podcast are
a huge, huge, huge blessing,being an encouragement and
inspiration as you guys embarkon this beautiful journey
together.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
Angela, thank you so much for your time today.
What inspiration and just you,beautifully laid out, like just
the oh my God.
Why would we send them there?
Why would we waste theirchildhood?
They only get one childhood.
These are the most preciousyears of their life.
Why would we waste it, teachingthem things that they'll never
need to know?
That makes so much sense.
And then just hearing aboutyour daughter's experience
(54:11):
starting her business, it's likereally eye-opening.
So just thank you for sharingthat with us and I wish you the
best in all of your endeavors.
Thank you for helping out thehomeschool community the way
that you do.
Speaker 2 (54:23):
It's my pleasure, greatest honor of my life.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
Thank you for tuning into this week's episode of the
homeschool how to.
If you've enjoyed what youheard and you'd like to
contribute to the show, pleaseconsider leaving a small tip
using the link in my show'sdescription.
Or, if you'd rather, please usethe link in the description to
share this podcast with a friendor on your favorite homeschool
group Facebook page.
Any effort to help us keep thepodcast going is greatly
(54:49):
appreciated.
Thank you for tuning in and foryour love of the next
generation.
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