Episode Transcript
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Intro (00:01):
Do you live in a world filled with corporate data? Are
you plagued by silo departments?Are your lackluster growth
strategies demolishing yourchances for success? Are you
held captive by the evil menace,Lord Lack, lack of time, lack of
strategy, and lack of the mostimportant and powerful tool in
(00:23):
your superhero tool belt,knowledge. Never fear, hub
heroes.
Get ready to don your cape andmask, move into action, and
become the hub hero yourorganization needs. Tune in each
week to join the league ofextraordinary inbound heroes as
we help you educate, educate,empower, and execute. Hub
(00:46):
heroes, it's time to unite andactivate your powers.
George B. Thomas (00:52):
How are we doing, everybody? You you can
you can tell. We're in thefestive, mood and season with
the this this is gonna be a realinteresting episode. I have a
feeling.
Liz Moorhead (01:04):
You know, George, I was still really safe and
comforted when you declare atthe top how interesting an
episode is good. That brings meas the as the person who has to
wrangle all of you. I'm Tidingsof great joy.
George B. Thomas (01:18):
Yeah. I'm just reading the room. I'm reading
the room. I'm understanding whathappened during the intro. I'm
watching Max's face.
I just we'll see.
Liz Moorhead (01:28):
I gotta be perfectly honest. Max has been
the one on his best behaviorsince we got on this morning,
which I'm gonna that thatactually does not fill me with
joy. That does not spark joy.This is we've now we're hitting
a critical mass that I find alittle bit upsetting. You know
what, George?
Let's just dig into it. Can youI wanna kick it over to you for
some housekeeping items so ourlisteners know what to expect
(01:50):
during the holidays because nextweek is Christmas, y'all.
George B. Thomas (01:54):
Yeah. I'd oh, my goodness. That got here
quick. Let me Yeah. Listen.
We're gonna we're gonna, youknow, throw a couple things at
you as far as, like, a seasonroundup and, you know, the our
favorite episodes of this year.But the, the Hub Heroes crew is
taking a little bit of time, ofcourse, to maybe strategize,
(02:18):
maybe drink some eggnog, maybehang out with family. So this
this episode is the one where weneed to just wish you, like,
merry Christmas, happy holidays,happy new year, whatever all of
the things that you celebrateare. We we say that to you
today, because, we're just we'rewe're about to go into chill
mode.
Liz Moorhead (02:39):
Goodbye.
Max Cohen (02:39):
Buh bing. How come we said that so weird? What? Felt
like we were
Liz Moorhead (02:44):
Now you decide to talk,
Chad Hohn (02:45):
Max? Now, Joe?
Max Cohen (02:45):
Are you
Liz Moorhead (02:46):
intrigued by calling us weird?
Max Cohen (02:48):
No. I'm just saying we we set it as if we were,
like, stepping back tocompletely reevaluate everything
we're doing when we're justtaking two weeks off for the
holidays.
George B. Thomas (02:56):
Well, I mean, does isn't that what people do?
Max Cohen (02:58):
You say the team's gonna be stepping back
George B. Thomas (03:01):
No, George. Strategize
Max Cohen (03:02):
what we're gonna be doing for
Liz Moorhead (03:04):
Not everyone takes two weeks off and starts new
companies, adds other companylike, some people just take a
nap.
George B. Thomas (03:10):
Am am I the only one that, like, reevaluates
everything that I'm gonna dobefore the the next year?
Max Cohen (03:16):
Yeah. I don't reevaluate I
Liz Moorhead (03:18):
just reevaluate dinner table. I mean, my big
thing about the well, herehonest answer to your question.
I do some of that. Like, I dosit down and kinda take stock.
Like, what did I do this year?
What do I wanna stop, start,keep doing? But I also know that
if I stare at anything longenough, I will find a problem
with it and try to kill thebank. Like, I can't Yeah. Can't
(03:40):
do that. Like
Chad Hohn (03:42):
Don't do it, Liz. Please.
George B. Thomas (03:46):
I well, I I will tell you this. I will tell
you this. I re I refuse to startanother company. I I refuse.
Liz Moorhead (03:52):
Well, that's the right thing.
George B. Thomas (03:53):
They're they're
Liz Moorhead (03:53):
What about another podcast?
Chad Hohn (03:57):
Well, that's the
George B. Thomas (03:58):
the the jury's still the the jury's still out
on that one because, well well,anyway, not why we're here.
We're here to talk aboutHubSpot. We're not here to talk
about the superhuman framework,but I'm but I'm looking forward
to the superhuman framework of2025, and that might equal a
podcast. I don't know yet. We'llsee.
But, anyway okay. So what are wetalking about?
Liz Moorhead (04:21):
Right, George. Speaking of HubSpot AI
resources. Yep.
George B. Thomas (04:24):
There we go.
Max Cohen (04:25):
Now how many episodes have we done on the data sources
now at this point?
Liz Moorhead (04:29):
This is our fourth one, and it's our final one, my
guy.
Max Cohen (04:32):
Oh, wow. At the end of the road.
Liz Moorhead (04:34):
I know. So we have done grand I would I was about
to sing it, and then I'drealized I'd love for us to keep
listeners going into
George B. Thomas (04:44):
Wait. We have listeners? Oh. We should
probably behave then.
Max Cohen (04:49):
No.
George B. Thomas (04:49):
I told you it's gonna be a fun episode.
Liz Moorhead (04:52):
Are we done, gentlemen?
Max Cohen (04:53):
It's not possible to behave.
Liz Moorhead (04:55):
Yes. Kick it, Chad.
Max Cohen (04:59):
You thought you'd get away. For a second, I thought
that was Chad just with, like, avoice modulator. Anyway, my
farm's going great, guys.
Chad Hohn (05:11):
That was me with the voice modulator. It was.
Max Cohen (05:13):
Oh, it was. Okay.
Liz Moorhead (05:14):
Was him. Yep. Well, yes. So we've done I
George B. Thomas (05:17):
gotta figure out how to do that. There's you
know, there's Gentlemen? George.Okay. Let's let's
Liz Moorhead (05:22):
this podcast around. I swear I will pull us
over. We will not stop atMcDonald's. That's it.
Chad Hohn (05:28):
Be good. Okay. Okay.
Liz Moorhead (05:29):
Everyone stay on the respective side.
Max Cohen (05:31):
Okay. Gigaliz.
Liz Moorhead (05:33):
Think Gigamax. Yeah. No. So we've actually done
brand voice and tone. We didideal customer profiles, and we
did marketing strategy.
But, George, before we get intoour final installment, let's
just imagine for a moment we'vegot some listeners with us who
are just hopping on the HubSpotAI data sources train. Can you
(05:53):
give us a quick rundown of whatthose are?
George B. Thomas (05:56):
So the data sources train is the AI context
and specificity that it needsto, use the content agent, the
social agent, the service agent,the any of the agents in the
future are gonna look at thingslike brand kits for your brand
voice, a company profile, idealcustomer profiles. Hopefully,
(06:21):
that'll get better in thefuture. Anyway, now now while
we're here, marketing strategy,user profiles. And today, we're
talking about products andservices and what, lies inside
of products and services and whythose pieces are important, to
humans, to businesses, but alsoin the context of AI agents, as
we move forward. So that is thatis AI data sources, a a setting
(06:44):
inside of settings of settings,and we've done four episodes.
So that should tell yousomething. Yeah. That should
tell you something aboutpotential thought of importance
around these items inside here.
Liz Moorhead (06:58):
You know, it's interesting. I originally had in
my notes that I wanted to talkabout today that I was feeling a
little less nervous going intothis episode than I was last
week's episode. Because if youmissed last week's episode on
the marketing strategy setting,singular, just go back and
listen to it. I don't I
Chad Hohn (07:16):
think it was property and setting. We're both
singular.
Liz Moorhead (07:21):
We're just gonna we're gonna move but,
originally, I was gonna say Iwas I was less nervous, but,
George, you've cured me. You'vecured me entirely of that. So
that's Oh. So we're just gonnamove right in. Yeah.
Max Cohen (07:32):
We're just
Liz Moorhead (07:32):
gonna move right in. I am One thing I will say I
am excited about today's episodeis the fact that last week's
marketing strategy conversationwas around a singular
lightweight property. And thisweek, we are dealing with
something quite dense where Ifeel like we're gonna have some
really fun stuff to talk abouthere. Because a product and
(07:52):
services discussion for anycompany is critically important
because it's not just about whatthey are. It's about what makes
them different and what theyactually solve for.
But, George, I wanna come backto you. Can you share with folks
what they will find when theyopen up the product and services
setting in AI data sources inHubSpot?
George B. Thomas (08:12):
Yeah. There's actually a couple things, and
and I wanna talk about thesefrom a couple different angles
as we move forward. But as soonas you open the page, you're
gonna see first of all, itliterally just says products and
services, and it says, describeyour organization's value,
propositions, products, andservices to ensure AI generated
(08:34):
content is relevant and tailoredto your organization. If we have
time, by the way, I'm gonna,open up the, social media agent
and show what that actuallylooks like from a products and
services standpoint of this. Butyou're gonna get value
proposition or a place to addyour value proposition.
You're also gonna, see that youcan add what pain points does
(08:57):
your company solve, and then youcan add an itemized products or
service list. So this isliterally like the product name
and the product description. Andso that's that's what you'll see
when you get there.
Liz Moorhead (09:09):
So what do we love about this tool on its face?
Max Cohen (09:12):
Get is there is there any transparency about how it
actually uses this information,or is it just kind of going into
the, you know, the the AImachine and saying it's giving
it context for content it'screating?
George B. Thomas (09:26):
I mean, it pretty much the context is that
top part of the page where it'sgonna be using it for, at this
point, for, the different agentsor content creation.
Max Cohen (09:38):
Agents. Yes. Got it. Okay. Cool.
Chad Hohn (09:40):
Yeah.
George B. Thomas (09:40):
Alright. So I can draw I can draw a straight
line for you right from this tomy social media agent. And,
also, we know
Max Cohen (09:48):
Got it.
George B. Thomas (09:49):
As soon as you talk about value proposition and
pain points, prospecting agent.I mean, it's just duh. Like
Max Cohen (09:56):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No.
I so I know I'm usually, hellaskeptical about these tools.
Right? But I'm actually kind ofexcited, about this one. Just
because when I didimplementation I know I say that
a thousand times on the show,but, like, you know,
Chad Hohn (10:16):
it's Wait.
Liz Moorhead (10:17):
Did you do implementation?
Max Cohen (10:18):
I did implementation. Well, no. It's just interesting.
The question I would always askon the first onboarding call is
I would just say, tell me abouthow you make money. Right?
So I could, like, fully, fullyunderstand what the end zone is.
Right? Because if, like, we'reputting together this, like, you
know, giant strategy withHubSpot, right, it's really
(10:38):
important to kind of, like,figure out, like, what the
immediate end goal is, right, interms of how do we get people to
buy things from you? How do theybuy from you? What do you
actually sell?
Because I felt if I knew that,everything that they would have
to do with HubSpot would slowlycome into focus. Right? But if I
don't know what, like, theendpoint is and I'm just
throwing generic inbound mumbojumbo at them and I don't have
(11:01):
anything to kind of, like, tieit into or or, you know,
understand again the endpointthat the strategy is, like,
leading to. And I know it's notthe ultimate endpoint, like,
buying something. Right?
But at least at the verybeginning when you're, like,
just setting it up and it'slike, how do you get the value
quickest and understand how yousupport that, for me, it was
really important to understandthat. Right? So what I think is
(11:23):
really neat here is that itfeels like they're at least at
the beginning of getting allthese different agents and
hopefully influencing the waythat content's being written to
understand what the end goal is,right, is to get people to buy
this thing in this, like,certain way so they can
accomplish x y z. Right? And Ifeel like if the agents have
(11:46):
that context, they couldprobably do a much better job in
the way that they communicate orsuggest things or whatever it
may be.
So It I'm actually kinda stokedon this.
George B. Thomas (11:56):
Yeah. I I love this piece too. And and it's
funny because you, Max, arejumping into AI agents. I'll
say, even for humans, this isimportant. Right?
Max Cohen (12:07):
Oh, yeah. For sure.
Liz Moorhead (12:08):
And and one of
George B. Thomas (12:09):
the things I did is I I love to dissect
things with AI. I have quicklyover the last year and a half,
almost two years, become a asuper AI nerd. And so I took a
screenshot of this product andservices with it filled out of
value proposition of what painpoints does your company solve
for us, Sidekick Strategies. AndI said, why is this information
(12:29):
important for a business toknow, and why is it important
for an AI agent to know? BecauseI wanted to see if there was any
differences.
And it's it's quite interestingbecause for the businesses, it
talks about clear valueproposition. And the fact that a
well defined value propositionhelps businesses articulate what
sets them apart, enabling themto attract the ideal customers.
(12:51):
Now I I grabbed that word like Idid because literally in one of
the AI data sources, we talkedabout ideal customer profiles.
Right? And so value propositionattached to ideal, customer
profiles.
It talks about for businessesaddressing customer pain points,
understanding and documentingthe pain points the company
solves, make sure they focus ondelivering solutions that matter
(13:14):
most to their target audiences.Now here's the fun part because
we're literally talking aboutprospecting agent, target
audiences, ideas. So you cankinda see how even from the
human side or business side, ittalks about clarity on products
and services and strategicgrowth differentiation. Now when
you get into, why is thisinformation important for AI
(13:36):
agents, what's fun is it talksabout personalized and relevant
responses. An AI agent cangenerate tailored content
answers and campaigns based onthe business's value
proposition, pain points, andproduct offerings.
This avoids generic orirrelevant output, which we we
don't want that. We we want itto feel very much like as
(13:58):
effective sales and marketingassistance. The AI can assist in
creating marketing materials,email campaigns, or pitches that
directly address customerchallenges and align with the
company's offerings, customersupport optimization, streamline
content creation. AI cangenerate blog posts, social
media content, and proposalsthat showcase the business's
(14:20):
expertise in solving complexchallenges. Consistent messaging
is a big piece of this.
So, like, it's important toboth, but important in different
directions when you think aboutthe documentation and having
this in an in HubSpot and inyour organization. But I
literally then my brain jumpedto this other piece that I wanna
mention, and then I'll I'll shutup for a minute, and we can
(14:43):
kinda go over this a little bitmore is I was like, well, is
there a formula for, like,crafting a value proposition
that's gonna work for AIassistance and your business?
And so what I would want thelisteners to realize is there's
a who you help, what you do, howyou do it, and the
(15:03):
transformation slash resultsformula that you could start to
pay attention when you're whenyou're crafting this. So when I
think about this, like, who youhelp, it's identifying in this
statement that you're writing,the specific group or persona
that you serve, for business,you know, small to medium sized
businesses, enterprisecompanies, whatever it is. For
the AI agents, teams,individuals, marketers, like,
(15:26):
things like that, what do youdo?
The services, the products, howdo you do it? Human first
approach, advanced data drivenstrategies, tailored solutions,
AI powered or AI assistedoptimization. These are just
words that we might use. Thetransformation or the results,
save time, increase ROI, unlocknew opportunities. So you wanna
(15:47):
think about these things.
And, Liz, maybe I'll get you theformula so we can put the
formula on the show notes, andpeople can be like, I wanna
steal this and use this when I'mcrafting the value proposition.
Because, again, do I just wantyou to come and just type some
small stuff in here? No. I wantyou to create a rich, robust,
very powerful value proposition.I want you to be able to have a,
(16:12):
I'll talk about pain pointsformula later.
But I want you to have a veryvaluable value proposition, if
you will, inside of thissetting.
Liz Moorhead (16:20):
So this is where I wanna happen and have a bit of a
conversation because what'sinteresting about this is that I
love that we have things likepain points and value
propositions. We have brandvoice and tone and stuff like
that. But what's interesting isthat these are assets that are
often created by brands indifferent ways. Like, value
propositions and pain points,those are, like, the first two
(16:41):
sections of every mess messagingstrategy I ever write. Like,
that that is you know, I Ipulled up one just so I have it
here next to me.
You know? I'm looking at one Idid for a client recently where
there are five differentspecific value propositions that
they provide because they aretied to five very specific pain
points. Right? So we have thisinteresting thing where we're
(17:03):
starting to see some moretraditional marketing
architecture make its way intoHubSpot. What I find interesting
about it, and I can't decide ifit's something where I like it
and this is what it needs to beor I wish it was a little bit
different, is that why isn't itjust a messaging strategy tab?
Why isn't it just a singledocument where that can all get
(17:24):
uploaded? Or is this the bestway for these AI tools to
process this information? Like,you need to pull value
propositions and pain points outand have it directly paired with
products and services. Yeah.Because, like I said, like, I
have I'm literally sitting herewith a document in front of me
that goes through valuepropositions, pain
Max Cohen (17:45):
points
Liz Moorhead (17:45):
at great length and detail as well as their
differentiators, which is athird thing that is neither
value propositions nor painpoints. Mhmm. So I think we're
getting into this interestingspot where I'm loving what I'm
seeing. Right? I'm loving thisidea that we're bringing more
storytelling to it.
Right? I wish our listenerscould see live what is
(18:07):
happening. I'm sorry. Chad, diddid did Santa Chad just come and
help fix the fire for you behindyou?
Chad Hohn (18:14):
No. That was Linus from Linus Tech Tips. I'm not
George B. Thomas (18:20):
I love that channel, by the way.
Chad Hohn (18:22):
Yeah. That was legit. I mean, this is Linus in this
stocking, and then that's Denniswho's, like, one of their
content creators in thatstocking.
George B. Thomas (18:31):
Which, by the way, if you're listening to this
podcast and you don't know whatthis is, I'm sorry. But it's
it's cool. And you should watch,by the way, because you'd see
Chad's background. I'll justthrow that there too.
Chad Hohn (18:44):
So we do a live recording
Liz Moorhead (18:46):
of the new year. We'll have newer ways to watch
in the new year.
Max Cohen (18:50):
Oh, yeah. Thing. Yeah.
Chad Hohn (18:51):
Yeah. If we if we pass the test.
Liz Moorhead (18:55):
If well, we've done it before. We can do it
again. I believe in us.
George B. Thomas (18:58):
We'll see.
Liz Moorhead (18:59):
But to go back to my original point, though, this
is where I find a lot of thisstuff fascinating. Right? There
are already methodologies andways to craft messaging
strategies that encompass all ofthese things. I I personally
have GBTs that I built usingthese messaging strategies built
in a very structured way. So,again, I love this idea of
(19:22):
seeing all of these things comein.
And do we need to break thestructure? Is this the way it
should be structured? Why can'tI just have a messaging strategy
tab that has certain things inthere? I still really love it,
though. Like, that's the thing.
I can't understand. Chad, maybethis is where you might be able
to answer my question. Is itbetter that value proposition
(19:43):
and pain points are pulled outand put directly with products
and services so the AI chatagents better understand how to
process this information.Because how messaging strategy
documents are built for humansmay not be the best way that
they are processed by these AItools that we're now becoming so
reliant upon.
Max Cohen (20:00):
Mhmm.
George B. Thomas (20:00):
Chad, after you go, I have thoughts.
Chad Hohn (20:02):
Yeah. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I think it's, you know,
for for a couple differentreasons. Right?
It's this way. And one of thereasons is, you know, HubSpot
has a bunch of teams of peopleworking on a bunch of different
features. Right? And so it's notlike they got one dude where
they just, you know, slide somepizzas under the door every now
and again, and all of a suddenthey get Breeze Copilot. Right?
(20:25):
You know, that's not happening.Like, they got so many people
working on it. Right? And sobecause of that, we have all of
these different data sourcefunctions in different tabs
because each different team isworking on it all at the same
time most likely. Right?
That's what I would imagineanyway. Obviously, they're all
they're all over some or there'sa product lead over kind of the
(20:47):
whole thing and, you know, theyhave meetings and whatever, but,
like, people are building themin individually. Right? And,
traditionally, we're used to,like, trying to make our own
model or our own GPT with memorywhere we are putting in the
guardrails into our ginormousplain text document. You put in
(21:08):
things like, here is a valueproposition, and here is a
company pain point.
Like, in your documentation,it's pretty structured. But if
you give people the opportunityto put in traditional
documentation and then they justfeed it a big pile of poo, like,
(21:30):
it's not gonna know how to pullthe data out of that
necessarily. Right? I mean,it'll be able to try to look
forward to the best it can. Sowhat I'm imagining is on on
their side, they feed valueproposition as a variable into a
prompt, like a larger promptarchitecture where it would go
(21:53):
in normal documentation.
It's almost like if you couldsee like, if it spit out a
document after it was done doingwhat it was doing or it
understood what it was, youknow, extracting the context
from what you gave it, then Ibet that output would look a lot
closer to your traditionaldocumentation, if that makes
(22:16):
sense.
George B. Thomas (22:17):
Yeah. So so I love a couple of things. One, it
is very much a recipe. A littlebit of x plus y equals the, you
know, the muffin or the cakethat you're trying to get. And
so looking at these items in AIdata sources as a spice rack of
it can x plus y times whateverequals this thing is beautiful.
(22:42):
But, also, what I what I findvery interesting is that we, we
really wanna paint the pictureor paint the stories from who we
are and what we know about theworld. And I can tell you,
HubSpot is not selling ablogging tool, therefore, not
focused on messaging, but theyare selling a CRM and a customer
(23:06):
platform, and there arehundreds, if not thousands, of
humans who buy the software anddon't give a Oh my my goodness.
There there we go. I don't givea about
Liz Moorhead (23:20):
And he was worried about us.
Chad Hohn (23:21):
Yeah. Yeah.
George B. Thomas (23:23):
I I pause. I stop myself. I stop myself. They
don't give a about messaging.Right?
But what they do want is theywant their freaking prospecting
agent to work, or they wanttheir social media agent to work
because they're literally comingat it as we're buying this
platform so that we can do thesesix things. They are loosely
(23:47):
tied to inbound. They're they'renot, owners or creators of value
based human centric content.Like, they're not coming from
the place where we come from,Liz. And so they're not looking
at this as the formula to createthe best content.
What they want is the formulathat gets them the best outcome,
(24:08):
in things that they can doinside of HubSpot, like email
template creation, social mediaagent, you know, optimization,
like, these things. And so if weput it under a messaging tab,
for some of us who love that,we'd be like, weehee. Yeah. For
others, they'd be like, I don'tneed that, so I'll never look at
it. Unfortunately, very much howI feel like and why we did these
(24:31):
episodes is people look at datasources and be like, that's nerd
shit.
I don't need it.
Liz Moorhead (24:35):
Well, the challenge I have with that,
though, and I because I wannathrow a couple of things out
there. One, the idea of having amessaging strategy is a lot more
traditional corporate than youmight think. That is not
something that I came out of,like, inbound and things like
that. That is very traditionalcorporate stuff. I I get it.
Say let me finish. Yeah. Oneother thing I will say is that
(24:58):
value propositions, when I thinkabout this stuff, you know what
the last thing I'm thinking ofactually is storytelling. This
is a very much a practicalmanual to make sure we're just
all saying the same stuff. It isliterally like when we say what
this company is and what we do,we're not all saying 15,000
different answers.
It's when we say, like, what areour top value propositions?
(25:22):
We're we're committed tocompliance. We're transparent
and reliable. We haveuncompromising ethical is done.
Like, it's I'm running throughone from, like, a an example
client.
Right? And so everybody's alwayssaying the same thing. Now what
I will agree with you, George,is that I think a lot of times
people do not realize did youknow that there's a thing called
a messaging strategy that hasall the same stuff in the same
(25:43):
place? Completely agree with youon that. But I would I the only
thing I wanna be very carefulabout is this idea that some of
these principles are coming fromthese very kind of soft, fluffy
places when it actually is veryjust like if you want your sales
team to all be saying the samestuff in the sales process,
(26:03):
having a messaging strategy outof the box is not entirely
unheard of.
George B. Thomas (26:08):
And and I don't I don't disagree. Yeah.
What I'm saying is if you goback and count, you can't count
on both hands, what I'm about tosay. The amount of times that
we've made fun or talked aboutpeople buying HubSpot so that
they could send email. Idiots.
Or or buy HubSpot so they can,like, do one thing or get
(26:32):
HubSpot and turn it into theirexisting system.
Chad Hohn (26:37):
Oh, yeah. That happens all the time. People
just don't wanna change
George B. Thomas (26:42):
sometimes. And so there's this huge disconnect
of, like, this place where wewant people to live in this
place where we hope that theyhave the things that we think
they have and know the thingsthat we hope they know. And then
what is reality.
Chad Hohn (26:58):
But they don't. Yeah. One of
Liz Moorhead (27:00):
those they don't. And then this is one of those
things where it's kinda like,how much do we want to cater to,
like, bad habits, and how muchdo we want to bring people into
correct habits? Now I knowthat's a much broader
discussion, and I don't wannasound like I'm the person trying
to be on the high horse. Weshould all be doing these things
(27:22):
exactly this way. Like, that'snot what I'm trying to say.
But, like, if I have a bunch oftabs and one of them says
messaging strategy and it saysvalue propositions, pain points,
like, certain things, like, thatthat is not outside the realm of
possibility to me. But I totallyget what you're saying, George,
because we are so inside theplatform. We are always looking
(27:45):
at it from this holistic,humanistic kind of way, and we
do have people coming into theplatform who are using it in
much more like, I got thisbecause it was an email
platform. I got this because Idon't like Salesforce anymore as
our CRM, and I would like to notuse it anymore. Like, we're
having people come in throughmore transactional avenues, and
(28:06):
I totally get that.
We are running into a situation,though, where it's like a little
bit of messaging, a little bitof hand holding, a little bit of
anything from HubSpot here wouldhave been helpful. But I think
what is very exciting to meabout this conversation is how
much potential there is withinthis specific tool. Now I do
wanna ask Oh. Go ahead, George.
George B. Thomas (28:26):
So let's be honest. If I had my, like, if I
could wave wave a magic wand,right under value proposition,
there'd be a link to a HubSpotAcademy video teaching the
what's, why's, and how's ofcreating the dopest value
proposition for this box.Underneath the what pain points
does your company solve, there'dbe, like, the dopest piece of
(28:48):
content that and and by the way,this might be something that
other agencies are listening to.And if so, and you have
something like, Supered, itwould be my suggestion that you
would create an internal video,targeting the word value
proposition on said page ofHubSpot settings or what pain
points does your company solveand create a freaking super,
(29:11):
video to actually teach the waythat this ish needs to be done
to to be helpful. Anyway, Idigress.
Go ahead, Liz.
Liz Moorhead (29:19):
You know, you say things out loud like that in
front of your content strategistwho is now just gonna be like,
so, George, unrelated toanything, could you whip up some
videos for me walking througheach of these tools?
Chad Hohn (29:29):
Yeah.
George B. Thomas (29:30):
It's fine. Maybe sounds
Max Cohen (29:31):
like it sounds like George is is tiptoeing down into
the super industrial complex.Are you, sir? I
George B. Thomas (29:38):
I well, I I I've I've talked to them
multiple time. I've I've talkedto them multiple times. I
haven't pulled the trigger on ityet, but I think there's some
interesting use cases for it inthe future, maybe, but not why
we're here.
Liz Moorhead (29:53):
Okay. So let's flip the script here. We've
talked a lot about what we like,but I would be curious to hear
if any of you all have concerns.George, let's start with you.
George B. Thomas (30:01):
I don't well, I mean, my first gut response is
I don't really have any concernswith this section in general.
But I will say that I guess Imight have concerns that people
won't do it right, but we'vealready kind of been alluding to
that. Like, listen. AI garbagein garbage out. Right?
(30:22):
So if you just slap some like,oh, I think that's good enough
in here. It's probably not goodenough. And the reason I wanna
bring that part up too isbecause this is one place in the
AI data sources that we don'thave a character limit. At least
that we can visually see.There's nothing saying that it
has to be under 5,000 words,which means to me you can get
(30:43):
rich and robust, which means youcan add a lot of specificity and
context to the things that we'retalking about here.
So I've just I would hope peoplewould take the time to figure
out things like where my brainwent, you know, when we were
prepping for this is what's theformula for the dopest value
proposition for an AI agent?What's the dopest formula for,
(31:04):
explaining the pain points thatyour company solves for an AI
agent? What's the best formulato create a description, that AI
agents really understand thewho, what, why, and where of the
service that you're providingwhen you put it in here for your
products and services? Andtaking time to do this right.
(31:26):
Again, I don't know if thatanswers your question, but
that's where my brain goes.
Liz Moorhead (31:29):
No. I like that a lot. I mean, there is something
to be said for the fact and andthis is something I've
experimented with outsideoutside of, obviously, the
HubSpot tools, but with other AItools. I've noticed that the
more because I have to use allof my messaging strategies for
my clients, and I build GPTsthat help our that are
(31:49):
constructed on those. And thereit has forced me in very smart
ways to rework some of thethings that I do because you
can't some if you make thingstoo complex, it gets
contradictory.
You may not always realize,like, you are overloading. Like,
more isn't always better when itcomes to the context that you're
(32:10):
giving AI tools. So, like, Ifound, like, it's actually
helped me refine things just mepersonally where it's like,
well, maybe I don't need 10,000words to say we're good at
stuff. Right? Like, maybe itcould just be we're good at
stuff.
Right? But no. I completelyagree. The fact that the I did
notice that there were nocharacter limits on it. I found
that kind of surprising.
(32:32):
But I also understand, you know,maybe it's because they
understand that people havevalue propositions documented,
and they may be approved
Chad Hohn (32:40):
many
Liz Moorhead (32:40):
at many bureaucratic levels Yeah. That
cannot be unapproved. So it'sit's a little bit of column a,
column b, but this is where theconcern I have is that and their
education like, I know they haveblog articles about value
propositions. I know they do.I've always been fascinated by
the fact that they don'tintegrate linking to knowledge
based articles or blog articlesthat they have have in some of
these tools, but maybe becausethey go out of date.
(33:01):
I don't know.
George B. Thomas (33:02):
Oh, Liz. Humans don't like to read.
Liz Moorhead (33:05):
I know. But I believe they can date that
they're there.
George B. Thomas (33:08):
Yeah. I I don't disagree. I I was kind of
making a funny, but, yeah, thebut but but see, here's the
thing, man. A lot of whatHubSpot does is to attract. Even
a lot of the education inHubSpot Academy is to attract.
Mhmm. We need we need this iswhy I brought up Superd. We need
(33:30):
content that actually, is youknow? I'll be shut up. Not why
we're here.
Just yeah. Do that for the restof the show. The old
Liz Moorhead (33:42):
flat line. Doing great. Chad and Max, concerns,
grievances.
Chad Hohn (33:48):
I mean, I've been thinking about, you know, just a
lot of where this is going is,like, you know, we're talking
about how, like, they give us afew certain things in certain
spots. And, like, you know, wewere kind of talking about
earlier, when you, you know,have something, should we have,
like, a fallback or, like, somesort of a mechanism in case
(34:12):
people don't do it right or theway we're expecting them to?
And, like, at least when you'reengineering some sort of
integration or, like,
Liz Moorhead (34:30):
process is followed.
Chad Hohn (34:30):
I'm like, yeah. What about when it's not? And they're
like, oh, well, it should alwaysbe here if the process is
followed. I'm like, yeah. Whatabout when it's not?
And they're like, oh, well, itshould always be there. And if
it's not, then there's aproblem. I'm like, yeah. But,
like, what about when it's not?Because it's not gonna be there
more than you think it will ifit relies only on a process to
get it there or something alongthose lines.
(34:52):
So, like, we I think some of thereason that it's architected the
way that it is is to make surethat they have something in the
right spot rather than just tobe completely missing huge
chunks that they mightabsolutely critically need for
(35:12):
the architecture of thesolution, right, as a whole. So
I don't know if that's like athought or a cons that's just
more of a thought, like, than aconcern. I think my you know, I
know this is like, AI is gettingso much attention. Right? But I
still have a little bit of aconcern that, like, this could
go a little bit the way of,like, HubSpot projects in
(35:35):
certain parts of it.
Like, I mean, could it just,like, get stuck under under a
settings tab, under your youknow, click on your face, and
then all of a sudden, it's AIdata sources, and then it's
there since 2017.
George B. Thomas (35:48):
Wait. When you say that, what you mean is it
ends up with cobwebs and and,like, two inches of dust. That's
what you mean.
Chad Hohn (35:54):
Yeah. And, like, it just stays this way forever, and
they don't go further because ityou know, either the project got
abandoned or whatever. And, Imean, like, I really doubt that
that's gonna happen because ofhow much attention AI has and
how huge of a focus it is. But,like, there's the potential for
that in the event that, like,some of these things are, like,
(36:16):
too abstract and, like, there'snot enough again, I think going
back to, like, the hand holdingwith people through it to
understand what to put here,even just simple stuff. Right?
Like, simple, this is what'sgonna you know, like, action
input output sort of helpingpeople see the picture. Because,
like, right now, they seefields. They don't see, like, a
(36:41):
vision for what putting gooddata in this will help you do
outside of, like, it will affectyour contact content agent. I
need to get a voice mod thatwill be Liz's Liz voice.
Liz Moorhead (36:55):
Not everyone can be advertising at that end.
Max Cohen (36:58):
Yeah. It will affect your account head agent.
Chad Hohn (37:01):
Yeah. Anyway, so that.
Max Cohen (37:04):
Wow. Is, do all these agents require you to complete
George B. Thomas (37:16):
one product or or, one product because they
don't cause well, yeah. They do
Chad Hohn (37:21):
a lot of these agents. On HubSpot, you're
selling something. Yeah. And youhave to have well, no.
Liz Moorhead (37:21):
But I'm for the you're selling something.
George B. Thomas (37:23):
Yeah. And you have to have well, no. But I'm
for the agent to work, you haveto have at least one in place.
Max Cohen (37:30):
Okay. Yeah. Good. My concern is that people would
ignore this and just startflipping the agents on. Right?
But it sounds like you've gottaat least
George B. Thomas (37:37):
Yep.
Max Cohen (37:37):
Have something.
George B. Thomas (37:38):
Right? At least gotta have something for
it to start to work. Because,again, it needs that context.
Max Cohen (37:43):
Yeah. Yeah. We could
George B. Thomas (37:45):
look at we literally could look at, data
sources as, like, AI agentonboarding.
Chad Hohn (37:52):
Yeah. Yeah. You're you're onboarding your own
Max Cohen (37:54):
AI agent. That's pretty true. Yeah. I mean, I've
got less concerns because, youknow, I was always scared about
AI lacking all of this contextand just leaning on shit it
knows from the Internet to beable to create content and write
stuff and and all of that and,you know, because it it kinda
(38:16):
goes back to the argument that Iwould have with, you know,
customers when it came to, like,hiring a partner for content
creation. I was always veryskeptical that some outside
agency would be able to come inand understand your customers
and your product in yourindustry the way you do.
So I always thought, like, hey.It's really important for
(38:36):
subject matter experts withinthe company to actually be the
ones generating originalcontent. Right? And then, you
know, when, you know, the whole,oh, AI is right in your blog
post now stuff came out, andpeople said, oh, see, it's so
easy to create content. And thenI was just like, well, I mean, I
really, really doubt that, like,the AI is gonna understand your
business and your customers andyour process and your goals very
(39:00):
well.
Now we're taking a step toreally alleviate that, you know,
that fear. Right? And just likeanything else, it's a baby step.
Right? But I think it's a prettybig baby step, to be honest,
when you look at all this stufftogether in in, you know,
summation.
Right? So I'm less concerned.I'm more hopeful, you know, that
(39:22):
we're gonna arm AI with exactlywhat it needs to act like a team
member and not just like a wordgenerator. And I think that's
cool.
Liz Moorhead (39:30):
I have to throw something out there that I think
George is gonna be proud of mefor saying. Because, normally,
I'm I'm the little butthead.It's like, but content is art,
you know, all these differentthing. And it is. Right?
Like, I I've had extensiveconversations on here about,
like, you gotta be in thedriver's seat. Right?
Max Cohen (39:49):
Mhmm.
Liz Moorhead (39:50):
And this is something that is not a
conversation that is justspecific to this tool, but you
said something, Max, that I findreally interesting about the
idea of, like, outside partiescoming in and being able to tell
your story better than you can.
Max Cohen (40:01):
Mhmm.
Liz Moorhead (40:02):
You have a and I've heard about this. Like, you
can't outsource your content.You can't do this. You can't do
that. Oh, that's malarkey.
No. But here's what. I wannaspeak to that fear at a high
level, Max. I'm not sayingthat's what you were saying. I
will just wanna share thisbecause it kinda hit on a point
that I think sometimes we miss.
If it requires someone toliterally be inside of your
(40:23):
organization in order to speakto the soul of it about who you
are, what you do, who you'rebuilt for, and how you do what
you do better than anybody else,what your value propositions
are, all these things. If youdon't have the ability to
articulate that to a third partyoutside of yourself in a way
that makes sense that can berepeated and shared, you have
(40:43):
larger problems as anorganization.
Max Cohen (40:47):
Yes. I think that's true. But I think more so when I
was so, like, I'm not I I wouldnever discount the ability for a
third party to come in and beable to tell that story about a
company. Right? Where it getstougher for me is them creating
the content for the folks outthere just trying to solve for a
(41:07):
specific goal or a challengethat they had.
Right? That don't even theythey're not even in the
framework of learning about acompany and learning about what
they do and who they are. Right?They're just going, oh, my
something something is wrong,and I'm trying to figure out how
to solve for it. Right?
Mhmm. When I'm in that mode, Idon't give a I don't give a
(41:28):
about, you know, who a who acompany is and why they are who
they are and, like, all thisother, you know, stuff. Like,
I'm just trying to find ananswer to my question. Right?
And that to me, I think, like,the nuances of doing that really
well, to me, it was always Ialways felt like it was, like, a
little bit tougher to, like,expect a third party to come in
there and really be, like, asubject matter expert on the
(41:51):
goals and challenges of yourcustomers because that company
that built a product to solvefor the goals and challenges of
the customers probably have amuch more deep intimate
understanding of what thosethings are, right, than a third
party that's not well skilled inthat.
Right? Now, yes, I I can agree.You can you can communicate that
(42:12):
to people and have them createthe content and everything.
Right? But, you know, it justtotally offloading it to them
and just saying, like, oh, yeah.
Like, you know, create which is,like, kinda what happened in the
past. Hopefully, it happens alittle less. But, you know, I've
always just kind of been someoneto say, like, listen. When it
comes to that true, like,awareness stage, you know, that
(42:33):
that true, like, awarenessconsideration, you know, top of
the funnel content that is all,like, purely educational and
really pointed and targeted,like, the nuance, goals, and
challenges that the type ofpeople you're trying to attract
have. I always, always wantsubject matter experts who are
passionate about that shit andunderstand that stuff deeply
(42:54):
involved in that contentcreation process.
Right? But that's just me.
Liz Moorhead (43:00):
We need to have the outsourced content
conversation on this podcast. Idon't think we've ever done it
because I think that is I'mgonna say one thing. We're gonna
put a pin in it because, George,I wanna come to you to come to
you about best practices. But toput a pin in it, I think the
outsourced content conversationis a breakdown on both sides
because I think in some ways,most content shops or agency
(43:23):
offered content services do notdo the work to integrate
themselves into organizationsthe way they should.
Max Cohen (43:30):
I agree with you.
Liz Moorhead (43:31):
I agree with you. Conversation.
Max Cohen (43:32):
And it's more that's not me saying there isn't an
agency that can't do it. I'm I'msaying the ones that are really,
really good at that speaking ofthe past. Very, very rare and
probably super expensive. Right?Yeah.
To have that detailed and andskilled of a process and and
nuanced understanding of it.Right? The run of the mill
people that are gonna come inand be like, top top 10 things
(43:54):
you need to know about company ab c and have that be your
content is just, like, you know,blockers. But, anyway
Liz Moorhead (44:00):
Yeah. George, I wanna talk to you really
quickly. I wanna hear from youbecause you have actually built
this out for sidekick strategyas your agency. Right? You've
gone in.
You've done all the tools.You've done all the build out.
And I'd love to hear from you.What are some of the best
practices folks should keep inmind while filling these pieces
out? You've alluded to formulas.
You've alluded to all of thesedifferent things. I'd love to
(44:22):
hear best practices and maybesome rookie mistakes folks can
avoid as they're going throughthis process.
George B. Thomas (44:28):
Again, I'll I'll say something, and I'm
gonna say it in a little bit ofa different way than I usually,
do this. And and by the way,Liz, as I'm saying this, my
brain also is transporting meback to when you say some
organizations already have thesethings because it's part of the
fabric of who they are. And soif you have these things, great.
(44:50):
Look them over. Make surethey're not outdated from when
you built them seven orseventeen years ago because your
business changed.
The world changed. Like so let'slet's make sure they are really
what they're supposed to be fortoday, and then put them in put
them in. But where I'll go ifyou don't have that and you're
trying to get this in here is,one, you don't have to do this
(45:11):
alone. So many times I'vewatched super admins just be
super admins and think that theyhave to do this alone. Mhmm.
It's almost gonna pair with thecontent, outsourced content.
Interview some of your top salesfolks, your SVP, your m you
know, marketing CMO. Interviewthem. Ask questions. Get the
(45:33):
transcript.
Like, start to craft this at ahuman level if you want, or
interview them, get thetranscripts, and work together
with an AI assistant to be like,hey. If I take these interviews
and I try to build a robustvalue proposition that is going
to be used in HubSpot, takescreenshot, paste in, boom,
(45:54):
like, help me create use thisframework that Hub Heroes gave
me and and the information thatI've taken from people in my
organization and helped me craftthis draft that I can now take
to the next level. In otherwords, don't do it alone. Like,
tagging other humans, taggingAI, because, yes, between humans
and AI, you can use those toactually do what we're here to
(46:16):
do is program the AI that isHubSpot, the version of HubSpot
that is AI. It doesn't have tobe a huge hurdle.
Like, Liz, when I when I craftedthese, like, thirty to forty
five minutes, boom. Done. Lovedit. Moved on. But also came back
(46:38):
and said, hey.
This is what I created. Is therea way to make it better? Okay.
Let's figure out a formula. Nowlet's update it.
Right? But at least getsomething that's good in there.
Have a conversation with humansin your organization to get the
information that you might nothave if you don't have it, and
then work with a a GPT, aClaude, a perplexity. I don't I
(47:02):
don't give a crap. To thenexpedite or streamline or speed
up, getting this into HubSpot.
And by the way, part of thismight even be just collecting
what you already have. With theproducts and services,
hopefully, you have a productsand services page. I literally
just had, my very programmedtrusted GPT, like, look at the
(47:26):
page and say, give me titles anddescriptions for all the
products and services that weprovide, and then enhanced them
and then did a little bit ofcopy and paste. And, again,
fifteen, twenty, thirty minutes,products and services were in
there. So it didn't have to bethis massive hurdle, like some
of us feel like this this thesethings might
Chad Hohn (47:46):
be. I think this takes me to the place where,
like, I I think people who, youknow, are on the fence about
whether or not they need to be,like, using AI in their day to
day in any capacity. I mean,like, the part of the reason you
just, like, oh, here's an imageand tell me to fill in some
things, you know, is because,like, you've been just, like,
cultivating and caring for yourAI assistant for quite a while.
(48:10):
Right, George? Like, you've justbeen, like, working on it, and
this is what we do and hone yourcraft, and it assists your
business.
And, like, it starts to feellike people you know, like, it
well, it's like you're, like, alittle Tamagotchi or whatever.
Right? It's like Playing
Max Cohen (48:24):
playing catch playing catch with it outside.
Chad Hohn (48:26):
Right. Playing catch with the Yeah. Anyway. But it's
like if if you're at leaststarting to do that, then, you
know, you're just gonna bestarting with blank GPT threads
all the time. Yep.
And, like, every time you gottatell it exactly what you want,
and it feels a little bit morelaborious to deal with, like,
your AI assistant. But I think areally exciting place in my
(48:50):
brain and, like, you know, thisis just against seeing the
vision of the future is, like,pop open Copilot on the page
inside HubSpot and ask it, hey.I don't have a marketing
strategy, like, you know, to getto the point where it's gonna
help, like, walk you throughthat. Because, like, how cool
would it be to, like, talk to itabout what you need for this
(49:11):
page that you're on in your AIsettings to help train your AI
assistants and your agents inHubSpot and your content with
what will be most impactful,especially on what they're
wanting. And then ask it to helpyou, you know, maybe get that
information from your team, and,you know, it'll give you some
(49:32):
questions to interview so thatit has the data that it needs
as, like, part of that interviewto, you know, bring that back
home.
So, I mean, I think that's likethe, you know, almost, I'm
almost hoping that, like, insideof HubSpot, Copilot's gonna have
some of that so that everythingrelated to your business, you
don't have to, like, so manuallygo after all of this context
(49:56):
input into your model, like, youknow, George has been, enjoying
doing all this time.
George B. Thomas (50:02):
I hope they get there. I don't know if it's
there yet, but I hope they getthere.
Chad Hohn (50:07):
No. I hope they do too. I think that's the vision
of the future that I would loveto see. Right?
Liz Moorhead (50:12):
I love that. Max, what about you, bud?
Max Cohen (50:14):
I feel like I kind of, gave it all away in my last
answer.
Liz Moorhead (50:20):
It's okay.
Max Cohen (50:20):
I mean,
Chad Hohn (50:21):
I I gave it all away.
Max Cohen (50:22):
I'm sure. I should've saved
Liz Moorhead (50:24):
some should've squirreled
Chad Hohn (50:25):
away for one time.
Max Cohen (50:25):
Yeah. I gave everything I had for it. Yeah. I
mean, I'm just generally excitedabout the direction that it's
going. I mean, it's they're Ithink they're clearly being very
thoughtful in the way that theykind of, like, brick by brick
build this whole, you know, AI Imean, whatever kind of breezes
today.
I can't even imagine what it'sgonna be like in the future. But
(50:48):
it it the the thing that makesme happy about it is that they
are really getting away fromthis is an AI easy button to
here's how you build Here's how,like, you you truly support an
AI strategy within HubSpot, andhere's all the things that you
(51:10):
can do to make sure you're usingit the right way and not just
something that is just supposedto be, you know, spitting out a
tons of high volume low qualitystuff to make it look like it's
this giant time saver. It's moreso like, how are we turning it
into a creative tool that hasthe context it needs to operate
(51:31):
like a true teammate versus somehyper productivity hack. Right?
It's it it they're they'rethey're they're building it with
care.
And they're they're building itin a way that people can use it,
but not use it the wrong way, Iguess. I don't know. I'm I'm I
(51:52):
I'm just glad it's not, like Imean, it's it's it's just very
clear it's not gonna be this,like, flash in the bucket AI
feature thing. It's it's it'sgonna be a a very, you know,
good approach to how you shouldbe using it within the context
of HubSpot and the greaterstrategy it supports. Right?
So I'm, I'm very optimistic, andI'm starting to watch it closer
(52:15):
than I ever have before. So
George B. Thomas (52:17):
I mean, I've said it before. I'll say it
again. I think HubSpot isbuilding the world's largest
business agent.
Chad Hohn (52:25):
Mhmm. Yeah.
George B. Thomas (52:25):
Yeah. So this Yeah. Whole thing that we've
been talking about, all of thesesettings inside of a setting, I
don't think they'll end up likeprojects because they're too
dang important to to make thebusiness agent be the best
business agent it can be.
Chad Hohn (52:40):
Yeah. Agreed.
Liz Moorhead (52:42):
Well, George, as Chad alluded to, I think, once
before, it was very difficultfor us to land the plane without
you that one time we were leftto our own devices. So I'd love
to just turn it back to you andhave you help us officially land
the plane for the last time in2024. What do you want listeners
to take away from this episodeand, I guess, quite frankly, the
whole AI data sources seriesbecause we just wrapped that up.
George B. Thomas (53:04):
Yeah. One, take some time to chill. Happy
holidays, happy New Year, merryChristmas, Kwanzaa, whatever.
Just take some time to reflecton the journey that you've had
in 2024. Definitely look aheadfor what's gonna happen in 2025.
Maybe, set some goals and somestrategies and all those good
things that you should do. Asfar as one of those goals and
(53:24):
strategies is go and spend somemore time with, data sources. Go
think about things like valuepropositions, ideal customer
profiles. Think about the agentsthat you wanna turn on or use.
Think about should you becreating educational value based
content if you're not.
Think about the experiences thatyou can create in 2025 because,
(53:48):
let's be honest, at this point,that's what we
Intro (53:52):
humans care about
George B. Thomas (53:55):
is experiences. So go enjoy, go
focus, and we'll see you in thenew year. Okay, hub heroes.
We've reached the end of anotherepisode. Will Lord Lack continue
to loom over the community, orwill we be able to defeat him in
the next episode of the HubHeroes podcast?
(54:15):
Make sure you tune in and findout in the next episode. Make
sure you head over to thehubheroes.com to get the latest
episodes and become part of theleague of heroes. FYI, if you're
part of the league of heroes,you'll get the show notes right
in your inbox, and they comewith some hidden power up
potential as well. Make sure youshare this podcast with a
(54:37):
friend. Leave a review if youlike what you're listening to,
and use the hashtag, hashtag hubeuros podcast on any of the
socials, and let us know whatstrategy conversation you'd like
to listen into next.
Until next time, when we meetand combine our forces, remember
to be a happy, helpful, humblehuman. And, of course, always be
(54:58):
looking for a way to besomeone's hero.
Do you live in a world filled with corporate data? Are
you plagued by silo departments?Are your lackluster growth
strategies demolishing yourchances for success? Are you
held captive by the evil menace,Lord Lack, lack of time, lack of
strategy, and lack of the mostimportant and powerful tool in
(00:23):
your superhero tool belt,knowledge. Never fear, hub
heroes.
Get ready to don your cape andmask, move into action, and
become the hub hero yourorganization needs. Tune in each
week to join the league ofextraordinary inbound heroes as
we help you educate, educate,empower, and execute. Hub
(00:46):
heroes, it's time to unite andactivate your powers.
George B. Thomas (00:52):
How are we doing, everybody? You you can
you can tell. We're in thefestive, mood and season with
the this this is gonna be a realinteresting episode. I have a
feeling.
Liz Moorhead (01:04):
You know, George, I was still really safe and
comforted when you declare atthe top how interesting an
episode is good. That brings meas the as the person who has to
wrangle all of you. I'm Tidingsof great joy.
George B. Thomas (01:18):
Yeah. I'm just reading the room. I'm reading
the room. I'm understanding whathappened during the intro. I'm
watching Max's face.
I just we'll see.
Liz Moorhead (01:28):
I gotta be perfectly honest. Max has been
the one on his best behaviorsince we got on this morning,
which I'm gonna that thatactually does not fill me with
joy. That does not spark joy.This is we've now we're hitting
a critical mass that I find alittle bit upsetting. You know
what, George?
Let's just dig into it. Can youI wanna kick it over to you for
some housekeeping items so ourlisteners know what to expect
(01:50):
during the holidays because nextweek is Christmas, y'all.
George B. Thomas (01:54):
Yeah. I'd oh, my goodness. That got here
quick. Let me Yeah. Listen.
We're gonna we're gonna, youknow, throw a couple things at
you as far as, like, a seasonroundup and, you know, the our
favorite episodes of this year.But the, the Hub Heroes crew is
taking a little bit of time, ofcourse, to maybe strategize,
(02:18):
maybe drink some eggnog, maybehang out with family. So this
this episode is the one where weneed to just wish you, like,
merry Christmas, happy holidays,happy new year, whatever all of
the things that you celebrateare. We we say that to you
today, because, we're just we'rewe're about to go into chill
mode.
Liz Moorhead (02:39):
Goodbye.
Max Cohen (02:39):
Buh bing. How come we said that so weird? What? Felt
like we were
Liz Moorhead (02:44):
Now you decide to talk,
Chad Hohn (02:45):
Max? Now, Joe?
Max Cohen (02:45):
Are you
Liz Moorhead (02:46):
intrigued by calling us weird?
Max Cohen (02:48):
No. I'm just saying we we set it as if we were,
like, stepping back tocompletely reevaluate everything
we're doing when we're justtaking two weeks off for the
holidays.
George B. Thomas (02:56):
Well, I mean, does isn't that what people do?
Max Cohen (02:58):
You say the team's gonna be stepping back
George B. Thomas (03:01):
No, George. Strategize
Max Cohen (03:02):
what we're gonna be doing for
Liz Moorhead (03:04):
Not everyone takes two weeks off and starts new
companies, adds other companylike, some people just take a
nap.
George B. Thomas (03:10):
Am am I the only one that, like, reevaluates
everything that I'm gonna dobefore the the next year?
Max Cohen (03:16):
Yeah. I don't reevaluate I
Liz Moorhead (03:18):
just reevaluate dinner table. I mean, my big
thing about the well, herehonest answer to your question.
I do some of that. Like, I dosit down and kinda take stock.
Like, what did I do this year?
What do I wanna stop, start,keep doing? But I also know that
if I stare at anything longenough, I will find a problem
with it and try to kill thebank. Like, I can't Yeah. Can't
(03:40):
do that. Like
Chad Hohn (03:42):
Don't do it, Liz. Please.
George B. Thomas (03:46):
I well, I I will tell you this. I will tell
you this. I re I refuse to startanother company. I I refuse.
Liz Moorhead (03:52):
Well, that's the right thing.
George B. Thomas (03:53):
They're they're
Liz Moorhead (03:53):
What about another podcast?
Chad Hohn (03:57):
Well, that's the
George B. Thomas (03:58):
the the jury's still the the jury's still out
on that one because, well well,anyway, not why we're here.
We're here to talk aboutHubSpot. We're not here to talk
about the superhuman framework,but I'm but I'm looking forward
to the superhuman framework of2025, and that might equal a
podcast. I don't know yet. We'llsee.
But, anyway okay. So what are wetalking about?
Liz Moorhead (04:21):
Right, George. Speaking of HubSpot AI
resources. Yep.
George B. Thomas (04:24):
There we go.
Max Cohen (04:25):
Now how many episodes have we done on the data sources
now at this point?
Liz Moorhead (04:29):
This is our fourth one, and it's our final one, my
guy.
Max Cohen (04:32):
Oh, wow. At the end of the road.
Liz Moorhead (04:34):
I know. So we have done grand I would I was about
to sing it, and then I'drealized I'd love for us to keep
listeners going into
George B. Thomas (04:44):
Wait. We have listeners? Oh. We should
probably behave then.
Max Cohen (04:49):
No.
George B. Thomas (04:49):
I told you it's gonna be a fun episode.
Liz Moorhead (04:52):
Are we done, gentlemen?
Max Cohen (04:53):
It's not possible to behave.
Liz Moorhead (04:55):
Yes. Kick it, Chad.
Max Cohen (04:59):
You thought you'd get away. For a second, I thought
that was Chad just with, like, avoice modulator. Anyway, my
farm's going great, guys.
Chad Hohn (05:11):
That was me with the voice modulator. It was.
Max Cohen (05:13):
Oh, it was. Okay.
Liz Moorhead (05:14):
Was him. Yep. Well, yes. So we've done I
George B. Thomas (05:17):
gotta figure out how to do that. There's you
know, there's Gentlemen? George.Okay. Let's let's
Liz Moorhead (05:22):
this podcast around. I swear I will pull us
over. We will not stop atMcDonald's. That's it.
Chad Hohn (05:28):
Be good. Okay. Okay.
Liz Moorhead (05:29):
Everyone stay on the respective side.
Max Cohen (05:31):
Okay. Gigaliz.
Liz Moorhead (05:33):
Think Gigamax. Yeah. No. So we've actually done
brand voice and tone. We didideal customer profiles, and we
did marketing strategy.
But, George, before we get intoour final installment, let's
just imagine for a moment we'vegot some listeners with us who
are just hopping on the HubSpotAI data sources train. Can you
(05:53):
give us a quick rundown of whatthose are?
George B. Thomas (05:56):
So the data sources train is the AI context
and specificity that it needsto, use the content agent, the
social agent, the service agent,the any of the agents in the
future are gonna look at thingslike brand kits for your brand
voice, a company profile, idealcustomer profiles. Hopefully,
(06:21):
that'll get better in thefuture. Anyway, now now while
we're here, marketing strategy,user profiles. And today, we're
talking about products andservices and what, lies inside
of products and services and whythose pieces are important, to
humans, to businesses, but alsoin the context of AI agents, as
we move forward. So that is thatis AI data sources, a a setting
(06:44):
inside of settings of settings,and we've done four episodes.
So that should tell yousomething. Yeah. That should
tell you something aboutpotential thought of importance
around these items inside here.
Liz Moorhead (06:58):
You know, it's interesting. I originally had in
my notes that I wanted to talkabout today that I was feeling a
little less nervous going intothis episode than I was last
week's episode. Because if youmissed last week's episode on
the marketing strategy setting,singular, just go back and
listen to it. I don't I
Chad Hohn (07:16):
think it was property and setting. We're both
singular.
Liz Moorhead (07:21):
We're just gonna we're gonna move but,
originally, I was gonna say Iwas I was less nervous, but,
George, you've cured me. You'vecured me entirely of that. So
that's Oh. So we're just gonnamove right in. Yeah.
Max Cohen (07:32):
We're just
Liz Moorhead (07:32):
gonna move right in. I am One thing I will say I
am excited about today's episodeis the fact that last week's
marketing strategy conversationwas around a singular
lightweight property. And thisweek, we are dealing with
something quite dense where Ifeel like we're gonna have some
really fun stuff to talk abouthere. Because a product and
(07:52):
services discussion for anycompany is critically important
because it's not just about whatthey are. It's about what makes
them different and what theyactually solve for.
But, George, I wanna come backto you. Can you share with folks
what they will find when theyopen up the product and services
setting in AI data sources inHubSpot?
George B. Thomas (08:12):
Yeah. There's actually a couple things, and
and I wanna talk about thesefrom a couple different angles
as we move forward. But as soonas you open the page, you're
gonna see first of all, itliterally just says products and
services, and it says, describeyour organization's value,
propositions, products, andservices to ensure AI generated
(08:34):
content is relevant and tailoredto your organization. If we have
time, by the way, I'm gonna,open up the, social media agent
and show what that actuallylooks like from a products and
services standpoint of this. Butyou're gonna get value
proposition or a place to addyour value proposition.
You're also gonna, see that youcan add what pain points does
(08:57):
your company solve, and then youcan add an itemized products or
service list. So this isliterally like the product name
and the product description. Andso that's that's what you'll see
when you get there.
Liz Moorhead (09:09):
So what do we love about this tool on its face?
Max Cohen (09:12):
Get is there is there any transparency about how it
actually uses this information,or is it just kind of going into
the, you know, the the AImachine and saying it's giving
it context for content it'screating?
George B. Thomas (09:26):
I mean, it pretty much the context is that
top part of the page where it'sgonna be using it for, at this
point, for, the different agentsor content creation.
Max Cohen (09:38):
Agents. Yes. Got it. Okay. Cool.
Chad Hohn (09:40):
Yeah.
George B. Thomas (09:40):
Alright. So I can draw I can draw a straight
line for you right from this tomy social media agent. And,
also, we know
Max Cohen (09:48):
Got it.
George B. Thomas (09:49):
As soon as you talk about value proposition and
pain points, prospecting agent.I mean, it's just duh. Like
Max Cohen (09:56):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No.
I so I know I'm usually, hellaskeptical about these tools.
Right? But I'm actually kind ofexcited, about this one. Just
because when I didimplementation I know I say that
a thousand times on the show,but, like, you know,
Chad Hohn (10:16):
it's Wait.
Liz Moorhead (10:17):
Did you do implementation?
Max Cohen (10:18):
I did implementation. Well, no. It's just interesting.
The question I would always askon the first onboarding call is
I would just say, tell me abouthow you make money. Right?
So I could, like, fully, fullyunderstand what the end zone is.
Right? Because if, like, we'reputting together this, like, you
know, giant strategy withHubSpot, right, it's really
(10:38):
important to kind of, like,figure out, like, what the
immediate end goal is, right, interms of how do we get people to
buy things from you? How do theybuy from you? What do you
actually sell?
Because I felt if I knew that,everything that they would have
to do with HubSpot would slowlycome into focus. Right? But if I
don't know what, like, theendpoint is and I'm just
throwing generic inbound mumbojumbo at them and I don't have
(11:01):
anything to kind of, like, tieit into or or, you know,
understand again the endpointthat the strategy is, like,
leading to. And I know it's notthe ultimate endpoint, like,
buying something. Right?
But at least at the verybeginning when you're, like,
just setting it up and it'slike, how do you get the value
quickest and understand how yousupport that, for me, it was
really important to understandthat. Right? So what I think is
(11:23):
really neat here is that itfeels like they're at least at
the beginning of getting allthese different agents and
hopefully influencing the waythat content's being written to
understand what the end goal is,right, is to get people to buy
this thing in this, like,certain way so they can
accomplish x y z. Right? And Ifeel like if the agents have
(11:46):
that context, they couldprobably do a much better job in
the way that they communicate orsuggest things or whatever it
may be.
So It I'm actually kinda stokedon this.
George B. Thomas (11:56):
Yeah. I I love this piece too. And and it's
funny because you, Max, arejumping into AI agents. I'll
say, even for humans, this isimportant. Right?
Max Cohen (12:07):
Oh, yeah. For sure.
Liz Moorhead (12:08):
And and one of
George B. Thomas (12:09):
the things I did is I I love to dissect
things with AI. I have quicklyover the last year and a half,
almost two years, become a asuper AI nerd. And so I took a
screenshot of this product andservices with it filled out of
value proposition of what painpoints does your company solve
for us, Sidekick Strategies. AndI said, why is this information
(12:29):
important for a business toknow, and why is it important
for an AI agent to know? BecauseI wanted to see if there was any
differences.
And it's it's quite interestingbecause for the businesses, it
talks about clear valueproposition. And the fact that a
well defined value propositionhelps businesses articulate what
sets them apart, enabling themto attract the ideal customers.
(12:51):
Now I I grabbed that word like Idid because literally in one of
the AI data sources, we talkedabout ideal customer profiles.
Right? And so value propositionattached to ideal, customer
profiles.
It talks about for businessesaddressing customer pain points,
understanding and documentingthe pain points the company
solves, make sure they focus ondelivering solutions that matter
(13:14):
most to their target audiences.Now here's the fun part because
we're literally talking aboutprospecting agent, target
audiences, ideas. So you cankinda see how even from the
human side or business side, ittalks about clarity on products
and services and strategicgrowth differentiation. Now when
you get into, why is thisinformation important for AI
(13:36):
agents, what's fun is it talksabout personalized and relevant
responses. An AI agent cangenerate tailored content
answers and campaigns based onthe business's value
proposition, pain points, andproduct offerings.
This avoids generic orirrelevant output, which we we
don't want that. We we want itto feel very much like as
(13:58):
effective sales and marketingassistance. The AI can assist in
creating marketing materials,email campaigns, or pitches that
directly address customerchallenges and align with the
company's offerings, customersupport optimization, streamline
content creation. AI cangenerate blog posts, social
media content, and proposalsthat showcase the business's
(14:20):
expertise in solving complexchallenges. Consistent messaging
is a big piece of this.
So, like, it's important toboth, but important in different
directions when you think aboutthe documentation and having
this in an in HubSpot and inyour organization. But I
literally then my brain jumpedto this other piece that I wanna
mention, and then I'll I'll shutup for a minute, and we can
(14:43):
kinda go over this a little bitmore is I was like, well, is
there a formula for, like,crafting a value proposition
that's gonna work for AIassistance and your business?
And so what I would want thelisteners to realize is there's
a who you help, what you do, howyou do it, and the
(15:03):
transformation slash resultsformula that you could start to
pay attention when you're whenyou're crafting this. So when I
think about this, like, who youhelp, it's identifying in this
statement that you're writing,the specific group or persona
that you serve, for business,you know, small to medium sized
businesses, enterprisecompanies, whatever it is. For
the AI agents, teams,individuals, marketers, like,
(15:26):
things like that, what do youdo?
The services, the products, howdo you do it? Human first
approach, advanced data drivenstrategies, tailored solutions,
AI powered or AI assistedoptimization. These are just
words that we might use. Thetransformation or the results,
save time, increase ROI, unlocknew opportunities. So you wanna
(15:47):
think about these things.
And, Liz, maybe I'll get you theformula so we can put the
formula on the show notes, andpeople can be like, I wanna
steal this and use this when I'mcrafting the value proposition.
Because, again, do I just wantyou to come and just type some
small stuff in here? No. I wantyou to create a rich, robust,
very powerful value proposition.I want you to be able to have a,
(16:12):
I'll talk about pain pointsformula later.
But I want you to have a veryvaluable value proposition, if
you will, inside of thissetting.
Liz Moorhead (16:20):
So this is where I wanna happen and have a bit of a
conversation because what'sinteresting about this is that I
love that we have things likepain points and value
propositions. We have brandvoice and tone and stuff like
that. But what's interesting isthat these are assets that are
often created by brands indifferent ways. Like, value
propositions and pain points,those are, like, the first two
(16:41):
sections of every mess messagingstrategy I ever write. Like,
that that is you know, I Ipulled up one just so I have it
here next to me.
You know? I'm looking at one Idid for a client recently where
there are five differentspecific value propositions that
they provide because they aretied to five very specific pain
points. Right? So we have thisinteresting thing where we're
(17:03):
starting to see some moretraditional marketing
architecture make its way intoHubSpot. What I find interesting
about it, and I can't decide ifit's something where I like it
and this is what it needs to beor I wish it was a little bit
different, is that why isn't itjust a messaging strategy tab?
Why isn't it just a singledocument where that can all get
(17:24):
uploaded? Or is this the bestway for these AI tools to
process this information? Like,you need to pull value
propositions and pain points outand have it directly paired with
products and services. Yeah.Because, like I said, like, I
have I'm literally sitting herewith a document in front of me
that goes through valuepropositions, pain
Max Cohen (17:45):
points
Liz Moorhead (17:45):
at great length and detail as well as their
differentiators, which is athird thing that is neither
value propositions nor painpoints. Mhmm. So I think we're
getting into this interestingspot where I'm loving what I'm
seeing. Right? I'm loving thisidea that we're bringing more
storytelling to it.
Right? I wish our listenerscould see live what is
(18:07):
happening. I'm sorry. Chad, diddid did Santa Chad just come and
help fix the fire for you behindyou?
Chad Hohn (18:14):
No. That was Linus from Linus Tech Tips. I'm not
George B. Thomas (18:20):
I love that channel, by the way.
Chad Hohn (18:22):
Yeah. That was legit. I mean, this is Linus in this
stocking, and then that's Denniswho's, like, one of their
content creators in thatstocking.
George B. Thomas (18:31):
Which, by the way, if you're listening to this
podcast and you don't know whatthis is, I'm sorry. But it's
it's cool. And you should watch,by the way, because you'd see
Chad's background. I'll justthrow that there too.
Chad Hohn (18:44):
So we do a live recording
Liz Moorhead (18:46):
of the new year. We'll have newer ways to watch
in the new year.
Max Cohen (18:50):
Oh, yeah. Thing. Yeah.
Chad Hohn (18:51):
Yeah. If we if we pass the test.
Liz Moorhead (18:55):
If well, we've done it before. We can do it
again. I believe in us.
George B. Thomas (18:58):
We'll see.
Liz Moorhead (18:59):
But to go back to my original point, though, this
is where I find a lot of thisstuff fascinating. Right? There
are already methodologies andways to craft messaging
strategies that encompass all ofthese things. I I personally
have GBTs that I built usingthese messaging strategies built
in a very structured way. So,again, I love this idea of
(19:22):
seeing all of these things comein.
And do we need to break thestructure? Is this the way it
should be structured? Why can'tI just have a messaging strategy
tab that has certain things inthere? I still really love it,
though. Like, that's the thing.
I can't understand. Chad, maybethis is where you might be able
to answer my question. Is itbetter that value proposition
(19:43):
and pain points are pulled outand put directly with products
and services so the AI chatagents better understand how to
process this information.Because how messaging strategy
documents are built for humansmay not be the best way that
they are processed by these AItools that we're now becoming so
reliant upon.
Max Cohen (20:00):
Mhmm.
George B. Thomas (20:00):
Chad, after you go, I have thoughts.
Chad Hohn (20:02):
Yeah. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I think it's, you know,
for for a couple differentreasons. Right?
It's this way. And one of thereasons is, you know, HubSpot
has a bunch of teams of peopleworking on a bunch of different
features. Right? And so it's notlike they got one dude where
they just, you know, slide somepizzas under the door every now
and again, and all of a suddenthey get Breeze Copilot. Right?
(20:25):
You know, that's not happening.Like, they got so many people
working on it. Right? And sobecause of that, we have all of
these different data sourcefunctions in different tabs
because each different team isworking on it all at the same
time most likely. Right?
That's what I would imagineanyway. Obviously, they're all
they're all over some or there'sa product lead over kind of the
(20:47):
whole thing and, you know, theyhave meetings and whatever, but,
like, people are building themin individually. Right? And,
traditionally, we're used to,like, trying to make our own
model or our own GPT with memorywhere we are putting in the
guardrails into our ginormousplain text document. You put in
(21:08):
things like, here is a valueproposition, and here is a
company pain point.
Like, in your documentation,it's pretty structured. But if
you give people the opportunityto put in traditional
documentation and then they justfeed it a big pile of poo, like,
(21:30):
it's not gonna know how to pullthe data out of that
necessarily. Right? I mean,it'll be able to try to look
forward to the best it can. Sowhat I'm imagining is on on
their side, they feed valueproposition as a variable into a
prompt, like a larger promptarchitecture where it would go
(21:53):
in normal documentation.
It's almost like if you couldsee like, if it spit out a
document after it was done doingwhat it was doing or it
understood what it was, youknow, extracting the context
from what you gave it, then Ibet that output would look a lot
closer to your traditionaldocumentation, if that makes
(22:16):
sense.
George B. Thomas (22:17):
Yeah. So so I love a couple of things. One, it
is very much a recipe. A littlebit of x plus y equals the, you
know, the muffin or the cakethat you're trying to get. And
so looking at these items in AIdata sources as a spice rack of
it can x plus y times whateverequals this thing is beautiful.
(22:42):
But, also, what I what I findvery interesting is that we, we
really wanna paint the pictureor paint the stories from who we
are and what we know about theworld. And I can tell you,
HubSpot is not selling ablogging tool, therefore, not
focused on messaging, but theyare selling a CRM and a customer
(23:06):
platform, and there arehundreds, if not thousands, of
humans who buy the software anddon't give a Oh my my goodness.
There there we go. I don't givea about
Liz Moorhead (23:20):
And he was worried about us.
Chad Hohn (23:21):
Yeah. Yeah.
George B. Thomas (23:23):
I I pause. I stop myself. I stop myself. They
don't give a about messaging.Right?
But what they do want is theywant their freaking prospecting
agent to work, or they wanttheir social media agent to work
because they're literally comingat it as we're buying this
platform so that we can do thesesix things. They are loosely
(23:47):
tied to inbound. They're they'renot, owners or creators of value
based human centric content.Like, they're not coming from
the place where we come from,Liz. And so they're not looking
at this as the formula to createthe best content.
What they want is the formulathat gets them the best outcome,
(24:08):
in things that they can doinside of HubSpot, like email
template creation, social mediaagent, you know, optimization,
like, these things. And so if weput it under a messaging tab,
for some of us who love that,we'd be like, weehee. Yeah. For
others, they'd be like, I don'tneed that, so I'll never look at
it. Unfortunately, very much howI feel like and why we did these
(24:31):
episodes is people look at datasources and be like, that's nerd
shit.
I don't need it.
Liz Moorhead (24:35):
Well, the challenge I have with that,
though, and I because I wannathrow a couple of things out
there. One, the idea of having amessaging strategy is a lot more
traditional corporate than youmight think. That is not
something that I came out of,like, inbound and things like
that. That is very traditionalcorporate stuff. I I get it.
Say let me finish. Yeah. Oneother thing I will say is that
(24:58):
value propositions, when I thinkabout this stuff, you know what
the last thing I'm thinking ofactually is storytelling. This
is a very much a practicalmanual to make sure we're just
all saying the same stuff. It isliterally like when we say what
this company is and what we do,we're not all saying 15,000
different answers.
It's when we say, like, what areour top value propositions?
(25:22):
We're we're committed tocompliance. We're transparent
and reliable. We haveuncompromising ethical is done.
Like, it's I'm running throughone from, like, a an example
client.
Right? And so everybody's alwayssaying the same thing. Now what
I will agree with you, George,is that I think a lot of times
people do not realize did youknow that there's a thing called
a messaging strategy that hasall the same stuff in the same
(25:43):
place? Completely agree with youon that. But I would I the only
thing I wanna be very carefulabout is this idea that some of
these principles are coming fromthese very kind of soft, fluffy
places when it actually is veryjust like if you want your sales
team to all be saying the samestuff in the sales process,
(26:03):
having a messaging strategy outof the box is not entirely
unheard of.
George B. Thomas (26:08):
And and I don't I don't disagree. Yeah.
What I'm saying is if you goback and count, you can't count
on both hands, what I'm about tosay. The amount of times that
we've made fun or talked aboutpeople buying HubSpot so that
they could send email. Idiots.
Or or buy HubSpot so they can,like, do one thing or get
(26:32):
HubSpot and turn it into theirexisting system.
Chad Hohn (26:37):
Oh, yeah. That happens all the time. People
just don't wanna change
George B. Thomas (26:42):
sometimes. And so there's this huge disconnect
of, like, this place where wewant people to live in this
place where we hope that theyhave the things that we think
they have and know the thingsthat we hope they know. And then
what is reality.
Chad Hohn (26:58):
But they don't. Yeah. One of
Liz Moorhead (27:00):
those they don't. And then this is one of those
things where it's kinda like,how much do we want to cater to,
like, bad habits, and how muchdo we want to bring people into
correct habits? Now I knowthat's a much broader
discussion, and I don't wannasound like I'm the person trying
to be on the high horse. Weshould all be doing these things
(27:22):
exactly this way. Like, that'snot what I'm trying to say.
But, like, if I have a bunch oftabs and one of them says
messaging strategy and it saysvalue propositions, pain points,
like, certain things, like, thatthat is not outside the realm of
possibility to me. But I totallyget what you're saying, George,
because we are so inside theplatform. We are always looking
(27:45):
at it from this holistic,humanistic kind of way, and we
do have people coming into theplatform who are using it in
much more like, I got thisbecause it was an email
platform. I got this because Idon't like Salesforce anymore as
our CRM, and I would like to notuse it anymore. Like, we're
having people come in throughmore transactional avenues, and
(28:06):
I totally get that.
We are running into a situation,though, where it's like a little
bit of messaging, a little bitof hand holding, a little bit of
anything from HubSpot here wouldhave been helpful. But I think
what is very exciting to meabout this conversation is how
much potential there is withinthis specific tool. Now I do
wanna ask Oh. Go ahead, George.
George B. Thomas (28:26):
So let's be honest. If I had my, like, if I
could wave wave a magic wand,right under value proposition,
there'd be a link to a HubSpotAcademy video teaching the
what's, why's, and how's ofcreating the dopest value
proposition for this box.Underneath the what pain points
does your company solve, there'dbe, like, the dopest piece of
(28:48):
content that and and by the way,this might be something that
other agencies are listening to.And if so, and you have
something like, Supered, itwould be my suggestion that you
would create an internal video,targeting the word value
proposition on said page ofHubSpot settings or what pain
points does your company solveand create a freaking super,
(29:11):
video to actually teach the waythat this ish needs to be done
to to be helpful. Anyway, Idigress.
Go ahead, Liz.
Liz Moorhead (29:19):
You know, you say things out loud like that in
front of your content strategistwho is now just gonna be like,
so, George, unrelated toanything, could you whip up some
videos for me walking througheach of these tools?
Chad Hohn (29:29):
Yeah.
George B. Thomas (29:30):
It's fine. Maybe sounds
Max Cohen (29:31):
like it sounds like George is is tiptoeing down into
the super industrial complex.Are you, sir? I
George B. Thomas (29:38):
I well, I I I've I've talked to them
multiple time. I've I've talkedto them multiple times. I
haven't pulled the trigger on ityet, but I think there's some
interesting use cases for it inthe future, maybe, but not why
we're here.
Liz Moorhead (29:53):
Okay. So let's flip the script here. We've
talked a lot about what we like,but I would be curious to hear
if any of you all have concerns.George, let's start with you.
George B. Thomas (30:01):
I don't well, I mean, my first gut response is
I don't really have any concernswith this section in general.
But I will say that I guess Imight have concerns that people
won't do it right, but we'vealready kind of been alluding to
that. Like, listen. AI garbagein garbage out. Right?
(30:22):
So if you just slap some like,oh, I think that's good enough
in here. It's probably not goodenough. And the reason I wanna
bring that part up too isbecause this is one place in the
AI data sources that we don'thave a character limit. At least
that we can visually see.There's nothing saying that it
has to be under 5,000 words,which means to me you can get
(30:43):
rich and robust, which means youcan add a lot of specificity and
context to the things that we'retalking about here.
So I've just I would hope peoplewould take the time to figure
out things like where my brainwent, you know, when we were
prepping for this is what's theformula for the dopest value
proposition for an AI agent?What's the dopest formula for,
(31:04):
explaining the pain points thatyour company solves for an AI
agent? What's the best formulato create a description, that AI
agents really understand thewho, what, why, and where of the
service that you're providingwhen you put it in here for your
products and services? Andtaking time to do this right.
(31:26):
Again, I don't know if thatanswers your question, but
that's where my brain goes.
Liz Moorhead (31:29):
No. I like that a lot. I mean, there is something
to be said for the fact and andthis is something I've
experimented with outsideoutside of, obviously, the
HubSpot tools, but with other AItools. I've noticed that the
more because I have to use allof my messaging strategies for
my clients, and I build GPTsthat help our that are
(31:49):
constructed on those. And thereit has forced me in very smart
ways to rework some of thethings that I do because you
can't some if you make thingstoo complex, it gets
contradictory.
You may not always realize,like, you are overloading. Like,
more isn't always better when itcomes to the context that you're
(32:10):
giving AI tools. So, like, Ifound, like, it's actually
helped me refine things just mepersonally where it's like,
well, maybe I don't need 10,000words to say we're good at
stuff. Right? Like, maybe itcould just be we're good at
stuff.
Right? But no. I completelyagree. The fact that the I did
notice that there were nocharacter limits on it. I found
that kind of surprising.
(32:32):
But I also understand, you know,maybe it's because they
understand that people havevalue propositions documented,
and they may be approved
Chad Hohn (32:40):
many
Liz Moorhead (32:40):
at many bureaucratic levels Yeah. That
cannot be unapproved. So it'sit's a little bit of column a,
column b, but this is where theconcern I have is that and their
education like, I know they haveblog articles about value
propositions. I know they do.I've always been fascinated by
the fact that they don'tintegrate linking to knowledge
based articles or blog articlesthat they have have in some of
these tools, but maybe becausethey go out of date.
(33:01):
I don't know.
George B. Thomas (33:02):
Oh, Liz. Humans don't like to read.
Liz Moorhead (33:05):
I know. But I believe they can date that
they're there.
George B. Thomas (33:08):
Yeah. I I don't disagree. I I was kind of
making a funny, but, yeah, thebut but but see, here's the
thing, man. A lot of whatHubSpot does is to attract. Even
a lot of the education inHubSpot Academy is to attract.
Mhmm. We need we need this iswhy I brought up Superd. We need
(33:30):
content that actually, is youknow? I'll be shut up. Not why
we're here.
Just yeah. Do that for the restof the show. The old
Liz Moorhead (33:42):
flat line. Doing great. Chad and Max, concerns,
grievances.
Chad Hohn (33:48):
I mean, I've been thinking about, you know, just a
lot of where this is going is,like, you know, we're talking
about how, like, they give us afew certain things in certain
spots. And, like, you know, wewere kind of talking about
earlier, when you, you know,have something, should we have,
like, a fallback or, like, somesort of a mechanism in case
(34:12):
people don't do it right or theway we're expecting them to?
And, like, at least when you'reengineering some sort of
integration or, like,
Liz Moorhead (34:30):
process is followed.
Chad Hohn (34:30):
I'm like, yeah. What about when it's not? And they're
like, oh, well, it should alwaysbe here if the process is
followed. I'm like, yeah. Whatabout when it's not?
And they're like, oh, well, itshould always be there. And if
it's not, then there's aproblem. I'm like, yeah. But,
like, what about when it's not?Because it's not gonna be there
more than you think it will ifit relies only on a process to
get it there or something alongthose lines.
(34:52):
So, like, we I think some of thereason that it's architected the
way that it is is to make surethat they have something in the
right spot rather than just tobe completely missing huge
chunks that they mightabsolutely critically need for
(35:12):
the architecture of thesolution, right, as a whole. So
I don't know if that's like athought or a cons that's just
more of a thought, like, than aconcern. I think my you know, I
know this is like, AI is gettingso much attention. Right? But I
still have a little bit of aconcern that, like, this could
go a little bit the way of,like, HubSpot projects in
(35:35):
certain parts of it.
Like, I mean, could it just,like, get stuck under under a
settings tab, under your youknow, click on your face, and
then all of a sudden, it's AIdata sources, and then it's
there since 2017.
George B. Thomas (35:48):
Wait. When you say that, what you mean is it
ends up with cobwebs and and,like, two inches of dust. That's
what you mean.
Chad Hohn (35:54):
Yeah. And, like, it just stays this way forever, and
they don't go further because ityou know, either the project got
abandoned or whatever. And, Imean, like, I really doubt that
that's gonna happen because ofhow much attention AI has and
how huge of a focus it is. But,like, there's the potential for
that in the event that, like,some of these things are, like,
(36:16):
too abstract and, like, there'snot enough again, I think going
back to, like, the hand holdingwith people through it to
understand what to put here,even just simple stuff. Right?
Like, simple, this is what'sgonna you know, like, action
input output sort of helpingpeople see the picture. Because,
like, right now, they seefields. They don't see, like, a
(36:41):
vision for what putting gooddata in this will help you do
outside of, like, it will affectyour contact content agent. I
need to get a voice mod thatwill be Liz's Liz voice.
Liz Moorhead (36:55):
Not everyone can be advertising at that end.
Max Cohen (36:58):
Yeah. It will affect your account head agent.
Chad Hohn (37:01):
Yeah. Anyway, so that.
Max Cohen (37:04):
Wow. Is, do all these agents require you to complete
George B. Thomas (37:16):
one product or or, one product because they
don't cause well, yeah. They do
Chad Hohn (37:21):
a lot of these agents. On HubSpot, you're
selling something. Yeah. And youhave to have well, no.
Liz Moorhead (37:21):
But I'm for the you're selling something.
George B. Thomas (37:23):
Yeah. And you have to have well, no. But I'm
for the agent to work, you haveto have at least one in place.
Max Cohen (37:30):
Okay. Yeah. Good. My concern is that people would
ignore this and just startflipping the agents on. Right?
But it sounds like you've gottaat least
George B. Thomas (37:37):
Yep.
Max Cohen (37:37):
Have something.
George B. Thomas (37:38):
Right? At least gotta have something for
it to start to work. Because,again, it needs that context.
Max Cohen (37:43):
Yeah. Yeah. We could
George B. Thomas (37:45):
look at we literally could look at, data
sources as, like, AI agentonboarding.
Chad Hohn (37:52):
Yeah. Yeah. You're you're onboarding your own
Max Cohen (37:54):
AI agent. That's pretty true. Yeah. I mean, I've
got less concerns because, youknow, I was always scared about
AI lacking all of this contextand just leaning on shit it
knows from the Internet to beable to create content and write
stuff and and all of that and,you know, because it it kinda
(38:16):
goes back to the argument that Iwould have with, you know,
customers when it came to, like,hiring a partner for content
creation. I was always veryskeptical that some outside
agency would be able to come inand understand your customers
and your product in yourindustry the way you do.
So I always thought, like, hey.It's really important for
(38:36):
subject matter experts withinthe company to actually be the
ones generating originalcontent. Right? And then, you
know, when, you know, the whole,oh, AI is right in your blog
post now stuff came out, andpeople said, oh, see, it's so
easy to create content. And thenI was just like, well, I mean, I
really, really doubt that, like,the AI is gonna understand your
business and your customers andyour process and your goals very
(39:00):
well.
Now we're taking a step toreally alleviate that, you know,
that fear. Right? And just likeanything else, it's a baby step.
Right? But I think it's a prettybig baby step, to be honest,
when you look at all this stufftogether in in, you know,
summation.
Right? So I'm less concerned.I'm more hopeful, you know, that
(39:22):
we're gonna arm AI with exactlywhat it needs to act like a team
member and not just like a wordgenerator. And I think that's
cool.
Liz Moorhead (39:30):
I have to throw something out there that I think
George is gonna be proud of mefor saying. Because, normally,
I'm I'm the little butthead.It's like, but content is art,
you know, all these differentthing. And it is. Right?
Like, I I've had extensiveconversations on here about,
like, you gotta be in thedriver's seat. Right?
Max Cohen (39:49):
Mhmm.
Liz Moorhead (39:50):
And this is something that is not a
conversation that is justspecific to this tool, but you
said something, Max, that I findreally interesting about the
idea of, like, outside partiescoming in and being able to tell
your story better than you can.
Max Cohen (40:01):
Mhmm.
Liz Moorhead (40:02):
You have a and I've heard about this. Like, you
can't outsource your content.You can't do this. You can't do
that. Oh, that's malarkey.
No. But here's what. I wannaspeak to that fear at a high
level, Max. I'm not sayingthat's what you were saying. I
will just wanna share thisbecause it kinda hit on a point
that I think sometimes we miss.
If it requires someone toliterally be inside of your
(40:23):
organization in order to speakto the soul of it about who you
are, what you do, who you'rebuilt for, and how you do what
you do better than anybody else,what your value propositions
are, all these things. If youdon't have the ability to
articulate that to a third partyoutside of yourself in a way
that makes sense that can berepeated and shared, you have
(40:43):
larger problems as anorganization.
Max Cohen (40:47):
Yes. I think that's true. But I think more so when I
was so, like, I'm not I I wouldnever discount the ability for a
third party to come in and beable to tell that story about a
company. Right? Where it getstougher for me is them creating
the content for the folks outthere just trying to solve for a
(41:07):
specific goal or a challengethat they had.
Right? That don't even theythey're not even in the
framework of learning about acompany and learning about what
they do and who they are. Right?They're just going, oh, my
something something is wrong,and I'm trying to figure out how
to solve for it. Right?
Mhmm. When I'm in that mode, Idon't give a I don't give a
(41:28):
about, you know, who a who acompany is and why they are who
they are and, like, all thisother, you know, stuff. Like,
I'm just trying to find ananswer to my question. Right?
And that to me, I think, like,the nuances of doing that really
well, to me, it was always Ialways felt like it was, like, a
little bit tougher to, like,expect a third party to come in
there and really be, like, asubject matter expert on the
(41:51):
goals and challenges of yourcustomers because that company
that built a product to solvefor the goals and challenges of
the customers probably have amuch more deep intimate
understanding of what thosethings are, right, than a third
party that's not well skilled inthat.
Right? Now, yes, I I can agree.You can you can communicate that
(42:12):
to people and have them createthe content and everything.
Right? But, you know, it justtotally offloading it to them
and just saying, like, oh, yeah.
Like, you know, create which is,like, kinda what happened in the
past. Hopefully, it happens alittle less. But, you know, I've
always just kind of been someoneto say, like, listen. When it
comes to that true, like,awareness stage, you know, that
(42:33):
that true, like, awarenessconsideration, you know, top of
the funnel content that is all,like, purely educational and
really pointed and targeted,like, the nuance, goals, and
challenges that the type ofpeople you're trying to attract
have. I always, always wantsubject matter experts who are
passionate about that shit andunderstand that stuff deeply
(42:54):
involved in that contentcreation process.
Right? But that's just me.
Liz Moorhead (43:00):
We need to have the outsourced content
conversation on this podcast. Idon't think we've ever done it
because I think that is I'mgonna say one thing. We're gonna
put a pin in it because, George,I wanna come to you to come to
you about best practices. But toput a pin in it, I think the
outsourced content conversationis a breakdown on both sides
because I think in some ways,most content shops or agency
(43:23):
offered content services do notdo the work to integrate
themselves into organizationsthe way they should.
Max Cohen (43:30):
I agree with you.
Liz Moorhead (43:31):
I agree with you. Conversation.
Max Cohen (43:32):
And it's more that's not me saying there isn't an
agency that can't do it. I'm I'msaying the ones that are really,
really good at that speaking ofthe past. Very, very rare and
probably super expensive. Right?Yeah.
To have that detailed and andskilled of a process and and
nuanced understanding of it.Right? The run of the mill
people that are gonna come inand be like, top top 10 things
(43:54):
you need to know about company ab c and have that be your
content is just, like, you know,blockers. But, anyway
Liz Moorhead (44:00):
Yeah. George, I wanna talk to you really
quickly. I wanna hear from youbecause you have actually built
this out for sidekick strategyas your agency. Right? You've
gone in.
You've done all the tools.You've done all the build out.
And I'd love to hear from you.What are some of the best
practices folks should keep inmind while filling these pieces
out? You've alluded to formulas.
You've alluded to all of thesedifferent things. I'd love to
(44:22):
hear best practices and maybesome rookie mistakes folks can
avoid as they're going throughthis process.
George B. Thomas (44:28):
Again, I'll I'll say something, and I'm
gonna say it in a little bit ofa different way than I usually,
do this. And and by the way,Liz, as I'm saying this, my
brain also is transporting meback to when you say some
organizations already have thesethings because it's part of the
fabric of who they are. And soif you have these things, great.
(44:50):
Look them over. Make surethey're not outdated from when
you built them seven orseventeen years ago because your
business changed.
The world changed. Like so let'slet's make sure they are really
what they're supposed to be fortoday, and then put them in put
them in. But where I'll go ifyou don't have that and you're
trying to get this in here is,one, you don't have to do this
(45:11):
alone. So many times I'vewatched super admins just be
super admins and think that theyhave to do this alone. Mhmm.
It's almost gonna pair with thecontent, outsourced content.
Interview some of your top salesfolks, your SVP, your m you
know, marketing CMO. Interviewthem. Ask questions. Get the
(45:33):
transcript.
Like, start to craft this at ahuman level if you want, or
interview them, get thetranscripts, and work together
with an AI assistant to be like,hey. If I take these interviews
and I try to build a robustvalue proposition that is going
to be used in HubSpot, takescreenshot, paste in, boom,
(45:54):
like, help me create use thisframework that Hub Heroes gave
me and and the information thatI've taken from people in my
organization and helped me craftthis draft that I can now take
to the next level. In otherwords, don't do it alone. Like,
tagging other humans, taggingAI, because, yes, between humans
and AI, you can use those toactually do what we're here to
(46:16):
do is program the AI that isHubSpot, the version of HubSpot
that is AI. It doesn't have tobe a huge hurdle.
Like, Liz, when I when I craftedthese, like, thirty to forty
five minutes, boom. Done. Lovedit. Moved on. But also came back
(46:38):
and said, hey.
This is what I created. Is therea way to make it better? Okay.
Let's figure out a formula. Nowlet's update it.
Right? But at least getsomething that's good in there.
Have a conversation with humansin your organization to get the
information that you might nothave if you don't have it, and
then work with a a GPT, aClaude, a perplexity. I don't I
(47:02):
don't give a crap. To thenexpedite or streamline or speed
up, getting this into HubSpot.
And by the way, part of thismight even be just collecting
what you already have. With theproducts and services,
hopefully, you have a productsand services page. I literally
just had, my very programmedtrusted GPT, like, look at the
(47:26):
page and say, give me titles anddescriptions for all the
products and services that weprovide, and then enhanced them
and then did a little bit ofcopy and paste. And, again,
fifteen, twenty, thirty minutes,products and services were in
there. So it didn't have to bethis massive hurdle, like some
of us feel like this this thesethings might
Chad Hohn (47:46):
be. I think this takes me to the place where,
like, I I think people who, youknow, are on the fence about
whether or not they need to be,like, using AI in their day to
day in any capacity. I mean,like, the part of the reason you
just, like, oh, here's an imageand tell me to fill in some
things, you know, is because,like, you've been just, like,
cultivating and caring for yourAI assistant for quite a while.
(48:10):
Right, George? Like, you've justbeen, like, working on it, and
this is what we do and hone yourcraft, and it assists your
business.
And, like, it starts to feellike people you know, like, it
well, it's like you're, like, alittle Tamagotchi or whatever.
Right? It's like Playing
Max Cohen (48:24):
playing catch playing catch with it outside.
Chad Hohn (48:26):
Right. Playing catch with the Yeah. Anyway. But it's
like if if you're at leaststarting to do that, then, you
know, you're just gonna bestarting with blank GPT threads
all the time. Yep.
And, like, every time you gottatell it exactly what you want,
and it feels a little bit morelaborious to deal with, like,
your AI assistant. But I think areally exciting place in my
(48:50):
brain and, like, you know, thisis just against seeing the
vision of the future is, like,pop open Copilot on the page
inside HubSpot and ask it, hey.I don't have a marketing
strategy, like, you know, to getto the point where it's gonna
help, like, walk you throughthat. Because, like, how cool
would it be to, like, talk to itabout what you need for this
(49:11):
page that you're on in your AIsettings to help train your AI
assistants and your agents inHubSpot and your content with
what will be most impactful,especially on what they're
wanting. And then ask it to helpyou, you know, maybe get that
information from your team, and,you know, it'll give you some
(49:32):
questions to interview so thatit has the data that it needs
as, like, part of that interviewto, you know, bring that back
home.
So, I mean, I think that's likethe, you know, almost, I'm
almost hoping that, like, insideof HubSpot, Copilot's gonna have
some of that so that everythingrelated to your business, you
don't have to, like, so manuallygo after all of this context
(49:56):
input into your model, like, youknow, George has been, enjoying
doing all this time.
George B. Thomas (50:02):
I hope they get there. I don't know if it's
there yet, but I hope they getthere.
Chad Hohn (50:07):
No. I hope they do too. I think that's the vision
of the future that I would loveto see. Right?
Liz Moorhead (50:12):
I love that. Max, what about you, bud?
Max Cohen (50:14):
I feel like I kind of, gave it all away in my last
answer.
Liz Moorhead (50:20):
It's okay.
Max Cohen (50:20):
I mean,
Chad Hohn (50:21):
I I gave it all away.
Max Cohen (50:22):
I'm sure. I should've saved
Liz Moorhead (50:24):
some should've squirreled
Chad Hohn (50:25):
away for one time.
Max Cohen (50:25):
Yeah. I gave everything I had for it. Yeah. I
mean, I'm just generally excitedabout the direction that it's
going. I mean, it's they're Ithink they're clearly being very
thoughtful in the way that theykind of, like, brick by brick
build this whole, you know, AI Imean, whatever kind of breezes
today.
I can't even imagine what it'sgonna be like in the future. But
(50:48):
it it the the thing that makesme happy about it is that they
are really getting away fromthis is an AI easy button to
here's how you build Here's how,like, you you truly support an
AI strategy within HubSpot, andhere's all the things that you
(51:10):
can do to make sure you're usingit the right way and not just
something that is just supposedto be, you know, spitting out a
tons of high volume low qualitystuff to make it look like it's
this giant time saver. It's moreso like, how are we turning it
into a creative tool that hasthe context it needs to operate
(51:31):
like a true teammate versus somehyper productivity hack. Right?
It's it it they're they'rethey're they're building it with
care.
And they're they're building itin a way that people can use it,
but not use it the wrong way, Iguess. I don't know. I'm I'm I
(51:52):
I'm just glad it's not, like Imean, it's it's it's just very
clear it's not gonna be this,like, flash in the bucket AI
feature thing. It's it's it'sgonna be a a very, you know,
good approach to how you shouldbe using it within the context
of HubSpot and the greaterstrategy it supports. Right?
So I'm, I'm very optimistic, andI'm starting to watch it closer
(52:15):
than I ever have before. So
George B. Thomas (52:17):
I mean, I've said it before. I'll say it
again. I think HubSpot isbuilding the world's largest
business agent.
Chad Hohn (52:25):
Mhmm. Yeah.
George B. Thomas (52:25):
Yeah. So this Yeah. Whole thing that we've
been talking about, all of thesesettings inside of a setting, I
don't think they'll end up likeprojects because they're too
dang important to to make thebusiness agent be the best
business agent it can be.
Chad Hohn (52:40):
Yeah. Agreed.
Liz Moorhead (52:42):
Well, George, as Chad alluded to, I think, once
before, it was very difficultfor us to land the plane without
you that one time we were leftto our own devices. So I'd love
to just turn it back to you andhave you help us officially land
the plane for the last time in2024. What do you want listeners
to take away from this episodeand, I guess, quite frankly, the
whole AI data sources seriesbecause we just wrapped that up.
George B. Thomas (53:04):
Yeah. One, take some time to chill. Happy
holidays, happy New Year, merryChristmas, Kwanzaa, whatever.
Just take some time to reflecton the journey that you've had
in 2024. Definitely look aheadfor what's gonna happen in 2025.
Maybe, set some goals and somestrategies and all those good
things that you should do. Asfar as one of those goals and
(53:24):
strategies is go and spend somemore time with, data sources. Go
think about things like valuepropositions, ideal customer
profiles. Think about the agentsthat you wanna turn on or use.
Think about should you becreating educational value based
content if you're not.
Think about the experiences thatyou can create in 2025 because,
(53:48):
let's be honest, at this point,that's what we
Intro (53:52):
humans care about
George B. Thomas (53:55):
is experiences. So go enjoy, go
focus, and we'll see you in thenew year. Okay, hub heroes.
We've reached the end of anotherepisode. Will Lord Lack continue
to loom over the community, orwill we be able to defeat him in
the next episode of the HubHeroes podcast?
(54:15):
Make sure you tune in and findout in the next episode. Make
sure you head over to thehubheroes.com to get the latest
episodes and become part of theleague of heroes. FYI, if you're
part of the league of heroes,you'll get the show notes right
in your inbox, and they comewith some hidden power up
potential as well. Make sure youshare this podcast with a
(54:37):
friend. Leave a review if youlike what you're listening to,
and use the hashtag, hashtag hubeuros podcast on any of the
socials, and let us know whatstrategy conversation you'd like
to listen into next.
Until next time, when we meetand combine our forces, remember
to be a happy, helpful, humblehuman. And, of course, always be
(54:58):
looking for a way to besomeone's hero.
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