Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro (00:01):
Do you live in a world filled with corporate data? Are
you plagued by silo departments?Are your lackluster growth
strategies demolishing yourchances for success? Are you
held captive by the evil menace,Lord Lack, lack of time, lack of
strategy, and lack of the mostimportant and powerful tool in
(00:23):
your superhero tool belt,knowledge. Never fear, hub
heroes.
Get ready to don your cape andmask, move into action, and
become the hub hero yourorganization needs. Tune in each
week to join the league ofextraordinary inbound heroes as
we help you educate, educate,empower, and execute. Hub
(00:46):
heroes, it's time to unite andactivate your powers. Do you
George B. Thomas (00:54):
remember back in the day when that intro was
about double as long because wehad to talk about, Max and Devin
working for HubSpot, but now wedon't have to do that? Like,
it's Well, it
Chad Hohn (01:04):
got shorter because then Max moved on. Right? Yeah.
And then Yeah. And then Devin.
Devin.
George B. Thomas (01:10):
Now we got Chad and yeah. Guys, today,
we're gonna talk about whatHubSpot users should be thinking
about in 2025 and beyond, whichis a big conversation. Right?
Literally marketing, sales,service
Intro (01:22):
Mhmm.
George B. Thomas (01:23):
Operations, could be web design, could be
business strategist in general.Like, there's so many things
that we could dive into, like,what HubSpot users should be
thinking about in 2025. I didn'teven mention super admins.
Right? And they should bethinking about super admin
training and, like, all thatgood stuff.
But but before we jump intothat, I have to ask. Did you
(01:43):
guys see the create time sinceand time until properties
update?
Chad Hohn (01:48):
Mhmm. Yeah. Oh, it's sick.
George B. Thomas (01:50):
Okay. So so just unpack your brain a little
bit. I again, we're getting Iwanna get nerdy on that. Like,
when you saw that, or youstarted playing with it, because
I'm sure both of you have. Like,where did your brain go when
you're like and, Max, I knowwhere maybe your brain went.
But let let's get both sideslet's get both sides of the
fence on create time sense andtime until properties.
Max Cohen (02:11):
Jax?
Chad Hohn (02:14):
No. Alright. So for me, they're awesome, helpful
visually, and in, like, indexpages and things. But if I'm not
mistaken, they can't fully beutilized inside of workflows as
you might hope they would.Right?
They're more of like a I thinkthey do it browser side
(02:34):
calculation. Maybe they don't.But like Oh,
Max Cohen (02:37):
so they don't store a value?
Chad Hohn (02:39):
Well, right. Because think about this. Like, if
architecturally at the back end,they're gonna have to update,
what, every one second, they'regonna have to make an API call
to the back end. Like, that'snot reasonable. Right?
Or, like, I and maybe there'sways to do it that I just don't
know about. Right? But, anyway,maybe in the workflow, they need
(02:59):
to build in some additionalfunctionality for when one of
those properties is called.They, like, actually store it
temporarily at the time that itgoes through that action. And
then it could cause slownesswith workflows.
So, anyway, there's some thingswhere it's not quite as useful,
but the user experience aboutthose properties is great. And I
(03:21):
don't know if they can be usedin reporting because I haven't I
haven't had tried to play withthose ones just yet. Right?
Yeah. But Yeah.
I would love for those to beable to use be used in
reporting. I think they can beused in filtering.
George B. Thomas (03:33):
Yeah. It's it's looking interesting because
the latest update as of January9, by the way, I see a
screenshot here. It's got abullet point around workflows,
and it shows it in a workflowscreenshot. It
Chad Hohn (03:46):
does. Okay.
George B. Thomas (03:47):
Yeah. It's in a list as well, which is
interesting. And, Chad, I'm gladyou brought up reporting
Chad Hohn (03:52):
because that's
George B. Thomas (03:53):
that's where I was like, this would be dope. It
even shows a bullet point in,like, single report viewer
dashboard and and shows it inthere. So, like, I think they're
extending it into, places andspaces that they Mhmm. They when
it maybe first was launched andpeople started playing around
with it in beta, now that Ithink it's live. Right?
(04:16):
Because that's the thing. Whenwhen, Chad, you saw it, beta.
Now that I'm bringing it to themasses live. Right? So there's
some, like, additions andchanges that have
Max Cohen (04:26):
been made.
George B. Thomas (04:27):
But but,
Max Cohen (04:28):
I mean, mister mister popsicle,
George B. Thomas (04:31):
mister mister
Max Cohen (04:32):
Well, first of all first of all, HubSpot community,
you're you're welcome. You'rewelcome. K? Yeah. Alright.
For those of you who don't knowit, like, this is exactly what
TikTok today was for. Right?Where
Chad Hohn (04:45):
Yeah.
Max Cohen (04:46):
The only way that we could figure out how to do this
is to create essentially atoday's date property and update
it every single day. Right? Anddo it. And like here you're as
well.
Chad Hohn (04:57):
Yeah. Like you didn't even have date time properties
inside of the HubSpot UI. Thatwas just date properties. But
you made it a date time in theback end.
Max Cohen (05:05):
Did we? Yeah,
Chad Hohn (05:06):
you made it a date time in the back end.
Max Cohen (05:08):
Probably. Yeah, we did that a lot for some reason.
Especially when you know eventhappily first came out and now
it's great because all thatstuff converted to actual date
time properties, which is good.The only thing
Chad Hohn (05:20):
that's, like, really goofy
Max Cohen (05:21):
about it. Yeah. The only thing that's really goofy
about it is have you guys evertried to copy a date time
property into a date property?Oh, no.
Chad Hohn (05:28):
Oh, yeah. Work? Via API, I have. Yeah. Because what
what happens is it says that itneeds to be at UTC midnight.
Max Cohen (05:38):
Yeah.
Chad Hohn (05:38):
And so if it's not at UTC midnight, it just Yeah. You
know? Same thing like if you'remaking a direct API call.
Max Cohen (05:44):
Yeah. It'll be really interesting too to see, if they
ever support date time on forms.Right? I have a theory they're
never going to because Why is
George B. Thomas (05:55):
why is that your theory?
Max Cohen (05:57):
Because it is going to create a lot of confusion and
anger around wanting to useHubSpot forms for, like, time
booking stuff. Right?
Chad Hohn (06:06):
Mhmm.
Max Cohen (06:08):
And it's it's not like it's gonna be able to say,
like, oh, block certain times inthe date time property if
something's, like, alreadybooked. Like, that is a whole
other, like, product you need tobuild. Right?
Chad Hohn (06:17):
Yeah.
Max Cohen (06:17):
So I think they're gonna avoid doing that to avoid
that, like, those confusions andsupport tickets and problems and
things like that. But don'tworry. We're thinking about some
stuff over here that we've beenthinking about for a long time.
George B. Thomas (06:30):
Well, I'd love to hear about that in the
future.
Max Cohen (06:32):
That I've been thinking about for almost ten
years now. Okay. So the otherthing too the the honestly, the
besides being able to, like, belike, cool. We solved that
problem for people. Now we can,like, spin that thing down.
It was a free app besides, like,if you wanted, like, multiple
objects, it was, like, $10 amonth or something like that. I
am just, so excited to stopseeing the LinkedIn posts of
people saying, HubSpot needs atoday's date property. Because,
(06:55):
no, it doesn't, and it neverdid. Right? Yeah.
Like, the thing is is, like, I Iwas stoked that they rolled it
out the way that I had alwaysenvisioned them rolling it out,
which is just, like, you selecta date, and then the other thing
just says today like, you know,time since or time until. Right?
And HubSpot should be smartenough to know what today's date
is to run whatever calculationit needs to do that. You don't
(07:18):
need it to take up a propertythat just holds today's date.
Right?
So, you know, even and, like,the way we did it with TikTok
today, that was, like, the onlyway we could do it because
HubSpot didn't do that. But thenthey finally rolled it out. They
rolled it out the way that I,you know, wanted it to be the
whole time, and it's great. Youknow, and, like, to be honest,
like, the real reason for allthat stuff is never really
(07:40):
workflow automation or reportingor anything like that. It's all
just about giving a visualindicator, like, on a record of
saying, oh, I only have x amountof time left or, wow, they've
been a customer since this long.
And, you know, being able to,like, deliver that information
to someone in a much easier wayto understand and digest than
just, like, an actual date.Right? Because if I just look at
a date, it's really tough for meto say, how long ago was that?
Because I gotta know exactlywhat today's date is, this,
(08:02):
that, the other thing. Right?
When if you're just like, yo,just tell me how long it is,
right, or how much time or howmuch time until
Chad Hohn (08:07):
You got really good at syncing in the number of days
from now or number of days agotype of a scenario.
Max Cohen (08:15):
Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah.
So it's it's, it's great. It'sout there. TikTok today did its
job. It was a love letter to theHubSpot community, and, now we
can start to wind it down, whichis great.
George B. Thomas (08:27):
There we go. And if you're listening to this
or watching this and you haven'tchecked out the create time
since and time until properties,make sure that you run over and
do that in the portal near you,which would hopefully be your
portal or maybe a client portalthat you're helping people with.
So let's go ahead and get intowhat HubSpot users should be
thinking about in 2025 andbeyond. Chad, we're gonna start
(08:49):
with you. Then, Max, I'll jumpto you, and then I'll go.
What's what's the first round ofthings that we think people
should be, thinking about? And,again, you take your pick of the
litter, marketing, sales,service, operation, business,
CMS. I don't care. What shouldpeople be thinking? HubSpot
users, people, human.
HubSpot users. Humans. OfHubSpot should be what should
(09:11):
they be thinking of in 2025 andbeyond?
Chad Hohn (09:14):
I mean, I think when it when it comes to me, I always
like to grow my skills. Right?And, like, as an somebody in an
admin position or, like, really,I'm in a technical integrations
type of a position at themoment. I did not have a lot of
the skills last year that I havethis year. Right?
(09:35):
And that now I'm able to, like,teach and give others and try
and, like, elevate the rest ofmy team by teaching them how to
do some of the things that I'velearned. And so I would say,
like, pick a thing you don'tknow how to do yet and really
try and dedicate a little bit oftime to learning it or playing
(09:57):
around in that area. Now thatcould be like, hey. I wanna
learn about AI models and GPTmemory or, like, programming
them to be an agent. That couldbe any number of different
things.
Like, you know, if you don'tknow HubSpot CMS, go make a
dummy website for, like, can hascheeseburger.com or something.
Max Cohen (10:18):
Oh. And
Chad Hohn (10:18):
then see if you can yeah. Go get your, you know,
some sort of, like, all thedifferent flow paths that a
customer would take to can hascheeseburger and, like, develop
that journey if you're not intoCMS or, like, HubSpot CMS.
Because if you've never donethat before, learn it. You know,
I know that would be one of myweak areas. Right?
(10:39):
But luckily, we all can grow,and you can do anything as long
as you really just put your mindto it and start playing around
with it and and exposingyourself to it. And so, like,
for me, I think one of thethings I wanna learn is just
from the ground up how toinstall HubSpot custom
extensions, right, and how towork with modifying the HubSpot
(11:01):
UI beyond what they just giveyou out the box. I wanna be able
to do that soup to nuts. Right?And, like, including getting
that code into, like, a GitHubrepo and being able to, like,
work with Git so you cancheck-in new code and have it
pushed to your HubSpot portal,stuff like that.
Like that, I think at somepoint, I want to be able to take
(11:22):
that thing and build simple,really practical, helpful
extensions to our users, HubSpotwithout having to call in a
developer. Right. And so that'sone of the skills. And I think
pick a skill like that,something practical that's
beyond you right now that youcan't do, but you have at least
enough of the underlyingstructure to take yourself
(11:45):
there. I I could not have chosenthis last year, and this is like
a practical example of it.
Like, I didn't know how to doenough API call integration
stuff. Like, I knew aboutHubSpot. I knew about workflows,
but I didn't know, like, how todo data storage, data management
in, like, a data table. I didn'tknow how to really, like, from
(12:06):
the ground up, actually make APIcalls. And now I'm, like,
reading API docs and doingintegrations no problem because
I can get through it andnavigate my way around.
And there's still some trial anderror. There's still some assist
AI assistant need, you know, attimes, but, I'm able to work my
way through those things.Because last year, I got some of
(12:27):
the backing skill to do this newthing. And I don't want people
to, like, actually be like, oh,well, I wanna, like, send a
rocket to the moon, you know,because, like, you're not gonna
send a rocket to the moon if youdon't already have, like, a
vehicle assembly building and,like, you know, liquid methane
and liquid oxygen plant and allthese other things that you're
gonna need to do it. Right?
George B. Thomas (12:47):
I love it. I I love how, by the way, I asked
you for one thing, and youalmost kind of snuck in a little
bit of three things becauseyou're like, well, you need to
grow your skills, number one.And as you were talking through
there, you're like and thenmaybe play along the way, which
is, like, number two. And thenyou're like and sometimes with
an AI assistant, which is kindof like number three, by the
(13:08):
way, because it's like
Chad Hohn (13:09):
AMP subsection a.
George B. Thomas (13:11):
Yeah. Yeah. Have, like, a mentor slash
helper slash assistant along theway. Perfect. Right.
But baseline, grow your skillsand figure out how to do things
that once seem difficult orimpossible to you as a human. I
love that. Max, when when youthink about HubSpot users, and
you think about twenty twentyfive and beyond, what should
they be focusing on?
Max Cohen (13:31):
Sorry. I muted myself. I do agree a lot with
Chad in that, you know, I kindasee this year as being a another
sort of, like, banner year forUI customization and
extensibility. I'd say keep aheavy lookout for AI to collide
(13:54):
with that at some point. Maybenot this year, but I'd say
definitely the year after.
I've seen some stuff that Ican't talk about. I've seen some
stuff I can't talk about. But,you know, it's I I feel like the
there is there is, like, a bigremember when we kinda had,
(14:16):
like, the year of, like, UIextensibility. Right? And they
released tons and tons ofcustomization options.
They went really hard on, like,the record editor and, like,
unified all that and did thatthing. There's still so much
more to go with that. Like and Ifeel like a lot of that's been
kind of, like, taken over by,like, the whole Breeze wave and
(14:37):
everything, and people have kindof, like, lost sight of that a
little bit. And, like, a lot ofthe things that have happened
recently have kinda been, like,a little bit more under the
radar just because it's livingin the shadow of all the the AI
improvements and stuff likethat. Sure.
You know, so I'd say don't don'tlose sight of, you know, what's
possible around customizationand UI extension. Like, how many
(14:59):
years out do you think we arefrom, you know, given AI's
ability to code. Right? And,like, HubSpot's UI
extensibility. Like, how faraway are we from, like, an AI
created CRM extension?
Right? Dude, we might be wemight be does the technology
exist today to do that? Yep. Ofcourse. Of course
George B. Thomas (15:20):
it does. If if you're if you're not playing
with Replit yet What's Replit?Oh, well, Replit is like, AI
coding. Anyway, not why we'rehere.
Max Cohen (15:30):
Yeah.
George B. Thomas (15:31):
But but if people aren't playing with
Replit and looking at what itcan do but but go ahead, Megs.
Max Cohen (15:36):
Megs. Yeah. And I think also just, like, the the
kind of general advice I wouldgive, like, every year, and I
feel like I'd probably startgiving it even more and more and
more just just kind of given allthe advancements across
everything. It's like startthinking about stuff that you
can do with HubSpot that youjust haven't been able to do
before or you haven't thoughtabout integrating into the rest
of your business. Right.
Like it could do so much.
Chad Hohn (15:58):
Yeah. The stuff that was once impossible to bring in
is becoming so much morepossible in a useful way, not in
just properties, but actually ina useful way.
Max Cohen (16:09):
Yeah. But what I really I I What I really really
want to see is how, you know, alot of these super super useful
things, right? Are still kindof, like, gated behind the, do
you have developer resources?Yes, no Yep. Like, problem.
Right? Yep. And what I reallywanna see is HubSpot kind of,
(16:31):
like, break down that barrierof, like, what requires a
developer from, like, a CRM UI,you know, extension perspective.
Like, we'll always need themfor, you know, CMS stuff. Right?
Especially when you wanna get,like, really precise and and,
you know, super fancy. Supercustom. Right? Like, AI can
really only get you so farthere. Right?
(16:54):
But, like, you know, you youlook at Salesforce and, like,
their declarative, like, flowbuilder and, like, all that kind
of stuff. Like, they need tobring more of that into, like,
the UI extensions world, right,where it's, like, you're
building UI extensions through adrag and drop editor. You're
customizing what sort of stuffhappens in the back end, how it
talks to the data and, like,does all these different things.
(17:16):
Right? I think that would bejust kind of a really cool
thing, and I and I hope theystart to deploy kinda something
like that.
Right? So I would I would reallykinda keep an eye on around what
they're planning for, sort of,like, democratizing and really
unlocking some of the real deepcustomization stuff when it
comes to, like, buildingprocesses inside of HubSpot.
(17:36):
And, you know, not just like,what does the UI look like?
Things like that. Right.
You know?
Chad Hohn (17:41):
Yeah. They've been doing some really cool things
surrounding, like, allowing AIto unlock things that are more
difficult for people who justdon't understand a tool. Right?
Max Cohen (17:52):
Sure.
Chad Hohn (17:52):
And like, one of those examples is, like, have
you guys seen how propertyvalidation can now occur with
regex or regular expressions?Well, they just added an AI
assistant to
Max Cohen (18:04):
you
Chad Hohn (18:05):
tell it what regex you want. You're like, I need an
invoice number to always startwith an I and followed by a dash
and three letters and then sixnumbers. And it can only be two
of these letters, and then it'llYeah. Bit out a regex formula
for you. And then you can testit in the regex editor, like,
all while you're creating theproperty right where you need
(18:26):
it.
It's amazing.
Max Cohen (18:27):
Which is brilliant because, like, how was anyone
writing those regex formulasbefore that had never heard of
regex? You're going to chat g pt and you say, give me a regex
expression for, you know, thisexact formatting. And it's like,
cool. Just build that right.
Chad Hohn (18:39):
They just add that with a specific prompt to, like,
highlight and look for yeah.
Max Cohen (18:43):
Yeah. And I and I really want people to play, like
this is more so, like I don'tknow if this is, like, what you
should be thinking about in2025, but it's what you should
be looking for at least andhoping HubSpot should be doing.
You should be asking for it.Right? Is that a lot of this AI
stuff needs to be heavily aimedat the admin and making life
easier for an admin versus just,like, content creation and Mhmm.
(19:09):
Sales enablement. Right? Like,you know, again, like, I'm still
waiting for the day where, youknow, a a partner can hop into a
HubSpot portal that, you know,is in dire straits and be like,
hey, Copilot. What's wrong withyou? And then Copilot goes, oh,
thank god you're here.
Listen. These people are doingthis. They're they're doing full
(19:30):
names for full full sentencesfor property names. They're
doing all that. You know what Imean?
Because it's gonna have all thatinformation. Right? But, you
know, it's it's they've I don'twanna say they've over indexed.
They've really only focused onthe creative parts, I think,
when it come I mean, sure. Theyhave some admin stuff.
But, like, the majority of thethings that we've seen with AI
(19:51):
and HubSpot has all been thecreative side, which is good.
They need to address thatbecause that is the hardest
thing to do in HubSpot by far,right, for folks that aren't
admins is, like, the creativeside of this work, right, and
and and, you know, buildingsome, like, leverage around
that. You know, but there's somuch they could be doing from,
like, a helping out the adminpoint of view. Right? And giving
(20:14):
giving the portal a voice tosay, this is what's wrong with
me.
Please help. Right?
George B. Thomas (20:19):
Yeah. I I love the idea of there being, like, a
a nurse or a doctor bot, of,like, HubSpot. Like, here's
where I'm sick. You
Chad Hohn (20:28):
know? Yeah.
George B. Thomas (20:30):
But Well, no.
Max Cohen (20:30):
It just needs to be the portal just because it can
understand what a good portallooks like and what a bad portal
looks like and best practicesfrom one to the other, and then
put that
Intro (20:40):
into the kind
Chad Hohn (20:41):
of in the eyes.
Max Cohen (20:41):
I mean, h why why shouldn't it be able to?
George B. Thomas (20:43):
It should be able to. It should be able to.
Perspective. And how do youYeah.
Max Cohen (20:47):
That's what I'm saying, bro.
George B. Thomas (20:48):
Business. I mean, beauty is in the
Max Cohen (20:50):
eye of the beholder. It shouldn't be that difficult
to understand what industry it'sin and, like, all those things.
It can find that informationout.
George B. Thomas (20:57):
Yeah. Right? And it should
Max Cohen (20:58):
become smarter over time. And, you know, the the
your portal should have a littleAI voice to say, hey. Like, I'm
struggling. Yeah. I agree.
Change some shit. Yeah.
Chad Hohn (21:09):
I agree. It would be surrounding user engagement
based on the number of nonpartner users. It would be, you
know, surrounding, like, what wehave, like, one client that was,
like, over 950 customproperties. Like, that's a lot
you're tracking more data pointsthan, like, Meta is trying to
track other customers at thatpoint. Yeah.
You know, like, that's a lot,but a lot of them are like,
(21:29):
abandoned. And like, oh, theymessed up my lifecycle stages or
whatever. Like, these customones are added. They're not
being used, and they seem tohave nothing to do with
marketing or, you know, some keythings, like, really the the key
HubSpot properties. Here's oneof the unfortunate scenarios
that occurs that causes peopleto go down some of those roads,
(21:50):
I think, is not knowing thatwell, a, that Kyle's HubSpot
default property cheat sheetthing exists.
Like, if you've never beenaround HubSpot or even if you
have and you've never taken alook at that thing, it's really
helpful to understand these area and it's had refreshes
(22:11):
recently. These are defaultproperties that are in HubSpot
that we're trying to think aheadfor junk you're gonna need. And,
you know, they're autocalculated or they have these
mechanisms, and people just archahead. Oh, yeah. They make their
own version of all these thingsall the time.
George B. Thomas (22:29):
Dude, one of the things that I've and I love
Kyle's thing, but one of thethings I've said for years is,
like, the best search that youcan do before creating any type
of property or process is, like,HubSpot default x y z, HubSpot
default contact properties,HubSpot default subscription
properties, HubSpot becausethere's a knowledge article that
(22:50):
has the properties and thedescription of what it does.
And, like Mhmm. When youunderstand your portal at that
intimate level
Max Cohen (22:59):
Mhmm.
George B. Thomas (23:00):
Then you don't start creating, like, your
scenario that you talked about.You know what's interesting too?
Max, you were talking aboutcreative, the the content being
the hardest part of HubSpot or,like, inbound strategy. Content
agent, has a beta out right now,by the way. Better blog topic
suggestions.
I don't know if you guys sawthat, but it's, it rolled out
recently. I think maybe, like, acouple days ago, January 10 or
(23:22):
something like that, as the timeof this recording. But now,
like, what was happening incontent agent is it would give
you one suggestion. If youenroll in this beta now, it's
gonna give you threesuggestions, but it's also Yeah.
But it's gonna give youinformation to why it made the
suggestions, which I think isvery interesting.
Chad Hohn (23:42):
That GPT version where it's, like, tries to act
like it's thinking. You know?It's like, oh, yeah. Like, oh, I
went down this branch, and thenhere's why I went down that
branch. And then I went downthis branch.
And
Max Cohen (23:54):
Isn't that an o one? Isn't that an o one thing? It
does they call it reasoning.Right?
George B. Thomas (23:59):
Yeah. And so maybe they're pulling into that,
but it's very interesting to methat now you would of course,
you need more. You you shouldhave, as a human, as a Human.
You should have the ability topick and then go in your kind of
own creative direction. But thefact that they're making things
better and and to do that sohere's the thing I wanna make
sure I jump in here and I sayand it and it might be two
(24:21):
things.
I might be cheating, but, like,listen. Twenty twenty five is
not 2024. Yeah. We all kindacheated. But 2025 is not 2024.
Do not let his, history dictatewhere you're headed in the
future. I don't know aboutanybody else, but 2024 felt a
little bit difficult when itcomes to business, when it comes
Max Cohen (24:39):
to marketing for 2025.
George B. Thomas (24:41):
When it comes to sales, it it it felt a little
difficult. Right? So, my hopesis that 2025 is better for, all
of us humans, better for all ofus HubSpot users. And so, again,
my my intro to this is, it's anew year. Let's treat it like
one.
Let's let's shut off the oldmindset, bring on the new
(25:02):
mindset, and, like, empowerpeople to, like, move forward.
Now with that being said, one ofthe things that I hope people
are paying attention to in 2025,because with all of the things,
the bells, the whistles, the AI,the squirrel moments, the silver
bullets, like, with all of that,like, I hope in 2025, we are
focused on how do we build ahuman centric system. And when I
(25:25):
say human centric, I'm talkingabout internal processes. I'm
talking about external customerexperiences. Like, how how do we
in a world where everything isso powered by something, how do
we make sure it's empatheticallydriven by us, the humans?
So I I just I wanna throw thatout into the world. I know it's
(25:47):
not very HubSpot specific, butit's definitely, the inbound
ecosystem specific. One of thethings that I loved about
inbound at the beginning was thethe humanness of it all, the the
fact that you could be amarketer and not feel bad about
yourself, the fact that youcould help humans and not
interrupt their dinner at night.Like and so just, like, figure
(26:09):
out how is part of your strategyin 2025 human centric, internal
and external. Alright.
Let's let's, Wait. Can we Yes,Max.
Max Cohen (26:18):
Can we can we expand on that? Can we, like, define
what that means? Because I feellike I have a I feel like I I
have my understanding of whatyou're saying there.
George B. Thomas (26:26):
So what are your thoughts? When I when I say
that, where does your brain go?
Max Cohen (26:29):
You sell to humans and you employ humans. Right?
Yeah. And so, you know, in termsof, like, what does that mean?
Right?
I think it's, like, you know,obviously, you wanna create a
great customer experience.
George B. Thomas (26:45):
Yeah.
Max Cohen (26:45):
Right? You wanna treat your customers like human
beings because they are humanbeings, which means be good to
them, take care of them, don'tlie to them, make them
successful.
George B. Thomas (26:57):
Yes. Make
Max Cohen (26:58):
them, you know, make them understand that they are
special because they're givingyou money. Right?
George B. Thomas (27:03):
Yeah.
Max Cohen (27:04):
Take care of them. But do the same thing for your
damn employees. Right? Yeah. Andwhat does that and what does
that what does that mean in thecontext of HubSpot?
Right? Yeah. Stop looking atHubSpot as a way that you could
track every single thing thatthey're doing. Yeah. Right?
Like, think less about thinkless about reports on
activities. Right? And think alittle bit more of how are you
(27:26):
making people's jobs easierYeah. And their lives easier.
How are you putting theinformation in front of them to
help them do their job versuslooking at the CRM as the thing
I have to track everything I'mdoing so my bosses know I'm
working.
Bro. But and there's too manypeople that still look at it
(27:46):
that way.
Chad Hohn (27:47):
Right. And people paint it as, oh, well, it's so
you can find everything,
Max Cohen (27:51):
but
Chad Hohn (27:51):
then they know what's up.
Max Cohen (27:53):
You if you think that's what it is. Like that
like and here's the thing.Ready? K. I can respect that a
company wants to make sure thepeople they're paying to do
their job are doing their job.
I can respect that salesmanagers want some kind of
tangible proof that thestrategies they're deploying,
(28:15):
the playbooks that they'rerunning, the the things the the
behaviors that they're trying toreinforce into their sales reps,
into whoever, it's happening. Ican respect that. But there's a
trade there. K? The trade is isthat if we're giving you this
system so we get something outof it, we being management,
(28:38):
leadership, whoever.
Right? What they're getting outof it is like, oh, I can I can
see what you're doing? I can seeyou're doing your job. I can see
we're moving in the rightdirection to hit whatever goals
we have, whether it's across theorganization or in specific
departments, whatever. Thosepeople aren't gonna wanna use
that thing to do that because,like, think about it.
There's besides, like, keepingtheir job, there isn't
(29:00):
inherently much benefit theyhave of using a CRM if that's
all it's for. It's like makingsure you're doing your job.
Right? They're gonna use it whenit actually brings value to
them. So start thinking a littlebit more about how your CRM adds
value into the day to day andquality of life and quality of
(29:23):
work and enjoyment of that workand the enablement of doing that
work, right, and decreasingburnout.
Right? How do you make your CRMa positive thing for the humans
that work for you? Right? How doyou make them go, fuck. I love
this thing.
Right?
George B. Thomas (29:43):
Yeah.
Max Cohen (29:44):
And I actually I I I I input the stuff that you wanna
see that's telling me I'm doingmy job as a byproduct of me
using this thing because it'sactually helping me and making
me enjoy my work, be enabled todo my best work, making it
easier for me to do work, andmaking it just easier for me to
(30:06):
do the fun parts of my job,which would be interacting with
customers, treating them likegenuine humans, and making sure
they're getting helped out andsuccessful. Right? And stopping
me from hating my job. Right?That's what you need to think
about.
Because if you do those things,right, whether it's, you know,
making the UI more customized sopeople can find what they need
(30:29):
faster and it's all right thereand it's easy to use and
understand, sure. Maybe it'sputting in, you know, internal
document documentation to makethings, like, easier for people
to find answers quickly. Ifit's, you know, doing all the
things that, you know, stoppeople from having to type the
same email over and over againor blah blah blah blah. Like,
things that just make their dayto day not so much of a slog.
(30:50):
Right?
Whatever it is that improves thequality of life of your
employees. Right? If you'redoing that stuff and they're
actively using it and they'relike, this is a net benefit to
me versus just something else Ihave to do on top of, like,
taking care of all thesecustomers. Right? Just because
(31:10):
upper management wants to seethat I'm logging my activities
or whatever.
Right? That logging of activityand and and logging of units of
work or whatever, that will be anatural byproduct of you making
HubSpot a joyful thing to workinside of. Okay? But the problem
is so many people just start offsaying, I wanna see how many
(31:33):
emails and how many callseveryone's setting up, and I
wanna set up these dashboards soI can tell everybody they're not
making enough calls and notdoing this and not to bro, if
that's the way you're stilllooking at HubSpot, I don't know
what to tell you. Well You knowwhat I mean?
George B. Thomas (31:46):
More than that, if that's the way that
you're still looking atbusiness, I don't know what to
tell you. Because, Max, whenwhen I when I hear you talk
about this, it's funny becauseyou're kinda colliding two
worlds for me right now. It'slike it's like, okay. Do do the
and we're just talking internalteam, but we could literally
talk external user experience aswell. But, does the team really
(32:07):
know the true purpose of theCRM?
Not the one that you've made up,not the one that you're being
selfish about, but the truepurpose. Like, what why do we
have this in place? We we'vegotta think about, you know,
platform, process, and people,but what's the purpose of the
CRM, the platform being in here?How does this platform enable
(32:28):
you to spend more time doingwhat you're passionate about?
Right?
And how do we as leadersactually care or love enough to
be able to, use the data thatwe're getting to create a better
culture, to to lessen burnout,to create psychological safety,
to get more creative, to getmore ideas, to move faster, to
(32:49):
innovate? Like, there's a happyword
Max Cohen (32:51):
for us. HubSpot.
George B. Thomas (32:53):
Yeah. No. It's not.
Max Cohen (32:54):
Yeah. No. It's not. Like, that's the thing. And,
like, what you should be askingwhen you're first saying,
alright, oh, we're gonna rollHubSpot out.
Right? Or, oh, we rolled HubSpotout. You shouldn't be saying,
this is what you do in HubSpot.It should be, what do you what
do you guys need? Yeah.
Hey, support team. What do youneed? Hey, sales team. What do
you need?
George B. Thomas (33:14):
See. Now you're talking
Max Cohen (33:14):
about what can we what can we do? Leadership.
Yeah. What can we do to makeyour life easier? Right?
Not Yeah. This is where you logyour calls, this is how you log
your emails, and this is thedashboard that tells you if
you're doing a better job thanthe other person. Yeah. No. No.
It's what do you need? What doyou what what can this help you?
And that's, like again, anytimeI was, like, doing
implementation, I'm, like,rolling this out to sales teams.
(33:37):
Right? And managers wanna be,like, I wanna I want you to show
the guys how to log an email andhow to, like, dump in a template
and how to I I would never justdo that.
I go, hey, guys. What sucksabout your job and and and and
what can we do to make it betterwith this thing? Right? And and,
unfortunately, that's not, like,what a lot of people are are
doing. They're just leadingwith, like, we've got this this
unruly sales team that we needto make sure is actually doing
(34:00):
the work properly and brought upit's just like, come on, man.
Chad Hohn (34:03):
So do that, man. Bad rap. Yeah.
George B. Thomas (34:05):
Do do that in 2025. Chad, what else should
HubSpot users be payingattention to in 2025?
Chad Hohn (34:12):
Yeah. I mean, we've talked about it a ton on this
show. And just in general, Ithink all of us are at least
some level of enthusiastic aboutit. But if you're not the person
who's, like, super excited aboutAI and LMM functionality in your
business, at least make surethat somebody is and that you
(34:39):
are working with them at leastreasonably syncing up to give
them ideas or for them to tellyou what they're working on to
spark ideas for you. You know,because maybe you're just busy
doing other things or working onyour own skill as we talked
about before or whatever it is.
But, make sure somebody's gotnot their finger on the pulse of
(35:05):
they don't need to be, like,looking at, oh, every new little
thing that happens, but, like,at least reasonably trying to
make AI do useful things andhelp it be a little more
automagical in your businessprocess outside of just, I'm
gonna talk to Breeze, you know,in the UI when I need to. Right?
(35:27):
Like, that's not what we'reafter as much as, like, well, we
want to be able to have like, wehave a a a thing at our our
business called a dilutionextraction that we get from each
of the employees that work at abusiness. So every employee
fills out that form, and theyuse their business email, which
automagically associates them tothe company. And we get a list
(35:51):
of people and their job titlesand what they feel could improve
about the company and all ofthis sort of stuff.
One of the things we wanna do istake all of this these questions
that are specific to theemployee and not necessarily
even shared with the employee,but automatically program a GPT
that you can ask about thatbusiness. So, you know, Roof
(36:16):
Whatever Inc. Bot knows aboutwhat all the employees feel when
they're there. And then it alsoknows about the value extraction
that we're trying to get as acompany. This is the company's
goals, and this is how thehumans feel.
And you can talk to Roof CompanyInc. Bot about that business.
(36:37):
Right? And, like, program thatautomatically so you can get
some more context for thesepeople and for what they're
doing in the business and whatthe business is trying to
accomplish. Right?
And so, like, that's an exampleof how to maybe use AI
practically in your businessflow that's not just talking to
Breeze. Right? You're, like,actually making a specific model
(36:59):
that's relevant to all yourinteractions with Breeze in a
way or sorry, with, you know,with this business and how to
update it. Right? So if you'renot the one, at least make sure
someone is.
And that's it's fine. You don'thave to be the one. Right? But
somebody in your business shouldbe at least interested in it and
doing things in it with it orthinking about things that they
(37:22):
could do.
George B. Thomas (37:22):
Yeah. It's such a magical playground right
now. Like, literally, we createda a custom well, it started out
as a project and then a customGPT for a client around tax
strategies. I'll just say thatmuch. To and we got it to the
point where we could list thename of the person.
We we want you to write anarticle as this human or write
(37:44):
an article as this human, and itwould know the changes and
difference to make as far as,like it it's crazy. And and just
the way that we program anotherexample of this, I was working
over the weekend on a a passionproject where, I can show you
the documentation based on aprocess that I went through
(38:05):
where I can ask my GPT what arethe 25 mindsets that make George
b Thomas the way he is, andit'll spit it out, and it's spot
on. What are the 25 beliefs thatGeorge b Thomas has that make
him interact with the world inthis way? What are the what are
the core values? And and so,like, if your assistant for your
(38:27):
business doesn't know it at anintimate level
Chad Hohn (38:31):
Mhmm.
George B. Thomas (38:31):
Because because that's where you start
to get into these magical placesof, like, it just knows
everything it can know, andyou're directing it into, like,
oh, we're just getting itanyway. Not an AI show, but
we're just getting into somereally crazy cool places that
you as business owners, businessleaders, even employees can get
into to be to be leveraging AI.Let me go back out of AI before
(38:55):
I get sucked in. One thing thatI want people to pay attention
to because it's interesting overthe last couple of months if you
watch, There was a a a an updateslash beta around, HubSpot email
tool and having mobile, like,mobile settings
Chad Hohn (39:11):
in
George B. Thomas (39:12):
there for mobile email.
Chad Hohn (39:13):
Mobile optimized email.
George B. Thomas (39:14):
Yeah. I wanna let everybody know there's a new
update slash beta that they cango enjoy as well, which is like
a whole new sidebar in themarketing email editor, which is
really interesting. Because ifyou look at the screenshots and
you've ever messed around withlanding pages or website pages,
like theme, it looks veryreminiscent to that. The level
(39:39):
of
Chad Hohn (39:39):
the brand new layout. It's how the multi step form
editor is, too.
George B. Thomas (39:42):
Yeah. It's really interesting. So
definitely, pay attention to,email. And and since I'm
bringing up the email tool,maybe pay attention to how
you're actually leveraging ornot leveraging email inside of
your organization. Because,while some people wanna say
email's dead, I think crappyemail might be dead, but good
(40:03):
email is still a
Max Cohen (40:04):
Crapy email's always been dead.
George B. Thomas (40:05):
Yeah. It's always been dead.
Max Cohen (40:06):
But it
Chad Hohn (40:06):
is live. Extra dead now.
George B. Thomas (40:09):
Yeah. It's it's a viable way to
communicate. And I would justhave you take a second glance, a
third glance in 2025 and say,what email efforts have we been
applying? What email efforts wehaven't? Like, what could we be
doing better, what could we bedoing different, but definitely,
email in 2025 as Mhmm.
(40:30):
As far as new folks, nurtures,and current folks, customers.
Like, how are we delighting themas well? Max, HubSpot users,
twenty twenty five, what shouldthey be focusing on?
Max Cohen (40:41):
I mean, besides everything that we talked about,
you know, I'd here's, I guess, achallenge that I would I would
pose Yeah. Right, to to anyHubSpot user out there. If
there's a hub you haven'texplored, go 10 miles deep into
it this year. Yeah. Right?
Like, you might have gottenreally good at marketing hub.
(41:03):
You might have gotten reallygood at sales hub. You might
have gotten really good at, youknow, Service Hub. But when was
the last time you even, like,just sat down and said, hey. I'm
gonna learn everything I canabout CMS Hub.
I'm gonna learn everything I canabout ops hub. Right? Those
things are, you know, often,very unexplored, I feel. Right?
You know, from from from a lotof users because, of course,
(41:26):
there's, like, the big three,marketing, sales, and service.
I'd even say service is muchless explored by a lot of
people. Like, you know
Chad Hohn (41:34):
I love service.
Max Cohen (41:35):
I'd say you I'd say yeah. I'd say 90% of the people
that are really, really good atHubSpot out there are really,
really good at marketing andSales Hub. Right? But haven't
had a reason to dive intoService Hub because maybe, like,
they're one of those companiesthat still looks at it as a
marketing and sales tool. Right?
And hasn't really thought about,oh, what can we do to actually,
(41:55):
like, help our customers usingthis instead of it all just
going to that one support inboxthat we have sitting somewhere.
Right? Or, like, you know, whatwhat the hell is this operations
hub thing actually? Right? It'slike, you know, if you haven't
explored any of the CMS stuff, Imean, it's a whole I mean, it's
not just CMS stuff now.
It's content.
Chad Hohn (42:16):
Literally. It's a
Max Cohen (42:17):
Right. It's content. I mean, CMS
Chad Hohn (42:18):
is, like, almost as much as learning all of the
other hubs combined.
Max Cohen (42:22):
Yeah. Sorry. If you're a marketer and you
haven't gone full balls intointo into into content hub, I I
don't know what to tell you.Right? Podcast.
This is the year to be it.
George B. Thomas (42:32):
Source library. Like
Max Cohen (42:33):
A %. So, like, you know, what I would say, like,
you know, your HubSpot NewYear's resolution is go, what's
that hub I don't know anythingabout, and how can I spend this
year becoming an expert in it?Right?
George B. Thomas (42:45):
Can I
Max Cohen (42:45):
because, like, Gary, too, you're gonna find yeah?
You're gonna find you're gonnafind reasons to use it and
reasons to spend money on it,but you can
George B. Thomas (42:53):
enjoy it. Go more granular than that. Like, I
agree with the hub thing. I Itotally agree with you. But,
like, listen.
One of the things I wanna talkabout paying attention to in
2025 is help desk. If you justlook at what's been going on,
help desk message analytics,help desk analyze tab, help desk
summary tab, like, all thethings that's helping happening
(43:14):
around help desk. So, like, ifyou go so I wanna talk about
workspaces. Like, if you're notdiving into the sales workspace
or the help desk or the customersuccess, you know, beta,
workspace. Like so Hub, yes.
But even, like, workspace, like,is there a workspace that you
haven't been paying attention toor leveraging inside your
(43:36):
organization? Like, 2025 is thebest time to to probably move in
those directions and
Chad Hohn (43:42):
understand the greater better than they were.
The workspaces came out lastyear. Obviously, start is their
tiny box, and they grow into amore rich feature set. The
prospecting workspace turnedinto the sales workspace, which
is really bringing together thelead and the sales management
process. It's great.
I mean, did you guys know thathelp desk got a board view now
(44:04):
so you can see your ticket boardview inside of your all tickets
view? And you get custom filterproperties at the top of both
the board and the list view. Imean, like, they have the
ability to add a custom app onthe right hand sidebar and
customize the right hand sidebarin help desk. They have, like,
the email AI replies that youcan train on your KBAs. Email
(44:26):
editor can pop out now.
Like, I mean, there's so manygood things going on there.
Like, the help desk team hasbeen killing it, and they're
working on, like, capacity levelroutings for all channels. Like,
if everybody is full up, like,where do the tickets go so you
can pass them out? Like, theamount of things that they're
doing there is so impressive.And, like, ticket splitting,
(44:51):
ticket merging, you know, I knowthese are basic things, but
there are things that HubSpot'snever had before.
George B. Thomas (44:57):
Yeah.
Chad Hohn (44:57):
And it's trading blows with the big boys in the
help desk space for sure. Andbecause it's all in one spot,
you have access to more oh, theyjust literally added the ability
to associate invoices to ticketsso that you could use your help
desk as kind of a salesfunctionality. Like, for
example, at RBP, we utilize,like, fuel to represent how much
(45:21):
effort we've assigned totickets, and they utilize their
fuel, and they can get morefuel. And if they wanna, like,
use a payment link to buy fuel,they can add fuel to their
account so we can process, like,a dev type request and build
them something. But now theinvoice can be associated to the
ticket.
Right? So, like, all thesethings that just never were
possible in help desk. And opshub is, like, its own sack of
(45:45):
glory. It's just so good. Like,I love ops hub.
And, like, if you don't havesomebody who loves ops hub,
that's something you should getbecause like that and somebody
who loves, you know, AI. They'rethey you kinda need both because
you need structured data. Like,I know AI deals with
unstructured data well. But ifyou give AI structured data,
(46:07):
it's that much better.
George B. Thomas (46:09):
Right? Knock out. Knock out. One two punch.
So Yeah.
I'll I'll I'll give one lastthing that I want people to
definitely pay attention to in2025. It's actually gonna be
something that I'm I'm gonna I'mgonna be very vulnerable and
authentic here in about, aboutten seconds. And then, by the
way, gentlemen, I'm gonna ask,like, what's what's the one
(46:31):
takeaway that you're kinda like,oh, man. After this
conversation, I need to do x y za b c. So the last thing I wanna
say to HubSpot users in 2025 is,if you've abandoned HubSpot
Academy because you've been inthe trenches for, you know, ten
plus years, eight plus years,seven plus years, and you think
you've done it all, been there,seen that, I want you to pay
(46:53):
attention to HubSpot Academy in2025 because if you go on
LinkedIn, Courtney Sembler,they're hiring a new position,
if not multiple positions forHubSpot Academy.
It almost feels like they'regetting ready to double down on
the things that they're doing.And, also, the the reason I'm
bringing this up is because Iwas on the HUG admin, training
(47:16):
January, the beginning of this,month. We talked about defining
your role, by the way, as aHubSpot super admin. It's part
of our HubSpot super admintraining. But I asked a question
in there.
I said, how many of you have thereporting certification and the
amount of no's that flooded up,in in the the super admin hog,
(47:36):
the amount of
Chad Hohn (47:37):
to have them.
George B. Thomas (47:38):
Nose that flooded up, I was like, wow. So
for all these years, I've beenan advocate of HubSpot Academy,
and I must continue to be anadvocate of HubSpot Academy.
Meaning, I'm an advocate foreducation. I'm I'm an advocate
for growing yourself. Chad, I'mgoing back almost to your first
thing of, like, your skills.
Like, what certification don'tyou have? What certification
(48:00):
should you have? And how manytimes per week or per month are
you checking back in for newlessons that could be learned
that could impact you as anindividual or the organizations
that you work at? So for 2025,that's gonna be a big, focus for
me because as somebody who has,at one time in my life, had 41
(48:20):
HubSpot certifications by theway, I think Jorge is at 52 now.
Anyway
Max Cohen (48:25):
Is he? Yeah.
Chad Hohn (48:26):
I think he's got it out there.
George B. Thomas (48:27):
It's it's crazy. I I need to go back and I
need to research, and I alsoneed to get new ones, and and
that needs to be a focus for memoving forward. So, anyway okay.
Max, what's your big takeawayfrom today's episode?
Max Cohen (48:42):
I mean, the big the big the big takeaway is is for
me is, like, yes. AI is going tobe absolutely insane in 2025,
for HubSpot, but that is not theonly thing. Yeah. There is the
there is a bit of a where how Isay this. I'm not kidding.
George B. Thomas (49:06):
Be easy. Don't get canceled.
Max Cohen (49:10):
Oh, pardon you pardon you, Chad. Sorry. I was just
stressed that I just I think itit it it will be a year to to
the basics really well. It'llalso be a year where taking care
of people is going to be moreimportant than it ever has been.
Yeah.
Mhmm. K? But also but also, froma tool perspective, it's gonna
(49:36):
be a lot more than just AI.Right? And and don't don't lose
sight of everything going onaround and behind the the big,
you know, the big crazy breezeexplosion this year.
Alright? Just Yeah. Payattention to the stuff around
the edges of the big shining AIlight that's gonna be, you know,
(49:58):
blasting from the center of thistool. Right? There there will be
extremely cool things happeningto the tool that aren't just AI.
Yeah. Right? You know, so payattention to that. Double down
on the learning. Right?
Explore stuff that you're notcomfortable with. Explore stuff
(50:18):
that you don't understand. And,yeah, embrace it, man. It's
gonna be a crazy year.
George B. Thomas (50:24):
Chad, what's your big takeaway from this
episode?
Chad Hohn (50:28):
Yeah. I just think, that I don't have enough certs
again. I feel bad because I letall my certs lapse because I,
you know, like, I mean, it'seasy to get in the middle of
everything. I'm like, well, I'mbuilding things that are like
that I think are pretty cool andI think are pretty useful. But,
yeah, like, I think there needsto be a balance because, like,
(50:51):
certs aren't everything.
Like, somebody with only certsand no experience isn't useful
necessarily useful. They havesome context and understanding.
But somebody with, like, doingwhatever they want and no certs
is also, like, you know, theymaybe they know how the rubber
meets the road, but, like, hey.You know what? It's, it's just
(51:12):
good to have some of thatindustry, you know, standard
sort of stuff to lock in.
I mean, that's, like, a takeawayfor me. Like, I wanna grow my
learning, but the learning thatI'm trying to do is, like, kind
of stuff they don't really havecerts for. They have some, like,
integrations stuff for certs.That's one I wanna take, because
it's probably gonna push meoutside of what I know. And,
(51:35):
like, keep me close to thecorrect trajectory.
But other certs I should renewbecause because it's good.
George B. Thomas (51:44):
Yeah. It's good.
Chad Hohn (51:45):
So that's that's one thing I wanna do and I need to
do.
George B. Thomas (51:48):
Love it. So my big takeaway is this. It's a new
year. It's a new you. Focus onthe the strategies and the
growth and the goals that youneed to be focused on.
Figure out how HubSpot actuallyplays in this world of process,
people, and platform. And I'mgonna go back to something that
Max has kinda been dipping inthe entire time. It's all about
(52:10):
the Humans. Focus on yourinternal humans, external
humans, yourself as a human, andhow can you just have the best
year ever and flourish? Becausethat's what we here at the Hub
Heroes podcast hope for you isthat 2025 is a year of
flourishing.
Okay, Hub Heroes. We've reachedthe end of another episode. Will
(52:33):
Lord Lack continue to loom overthe community, or will we be
able to defeat him in the nextepisode of the Hub Heroes
podcast? Make sure you tune inand find out in the next
episode. Make sure you head overto the hubheroes.com to get the
latest episodes and become partof the league of heroes.
FYI, if you're part of theleague of heroes, you'll get the
(52:56):
show notes right in your inbox,and they come with some hidden
power up potential as well. Makesure you share this podcast with
a friend. Leave a review if youlike what you're listening to,
and use the hashtag, hashtag hubeuros podcast on any of the
socials, and let us know whatstrategy conversation you'd like
to listen into next. Until nexttime, when we meet and combine
(53:18):
our forces, remember to be ahappy, helpful, humble human.
And, of course, always belooking for a way to be
someone's hero.
Do you live in a world filled with corporate data? Are
you plagued by silo departments?Are your lackluster growth
strategies demolishing yourchances for success? Are you
held captive by the evil menace,Lord Lack, lack of time, lack of
strategy, and lack of the mostimportant and powerful tool in
(00:23):
your superhero tool belt,knowledge. Never fear, hub
heroes.
Get ready to don your cape andmask, move into action, and
become the hub hero yourorganization needs. Tune in each
week to join the league ofextraordinary inbound heroes as
we help you educate, educate,empower, and execute. Hub
(00:46):
heroes, it's time to unite andactivate your powers. Do you
George B. Thomas (00:54):
remember back in the day when that intro was
about double as long because wehad to talk about, Max and Devin
working for HubSpot, but now wedon't have to do that? Like,
it's Well, it
Chad Hohn (01:04):
got shorter because then Max moved on. Right? Yeah.
And then Yeah. And then Devin.
Devin.
George B. Thomas (01:10):
Now we got Chad and yeah. Guys, today,
we're gonna talk about whatHubSpot users should be thinking
about in 2025 and beyond, whichis a big conversation. Right?
Literally marketing, sales,service
Intro (01:22):
Mhmm.
George B. Thomas (01:23):
Operations, could be web design, could be
business strategist in general.Like, there's so many things
that we could dive into, like,what HubSpot users should be
thinking about in 2025. I didn'teven mention super admins.
Right? And they should bethinking about super admin
training and, like, all thatgood stuff.
But but before we jump intothat, I have to ask. Did you
(01:43):
guys see the create time sinceand time until properties
update?
Chad Hohn (01:48):
Mhmm. Yeah. Oh, it's sick.
George B. Thomas (01:50):
Okay. So so just unpack your brain a little
bit. I again, we're getting Iwanna get nerdy on that. Like,
when you saw that, or youstarted playing with it, because
I'm sure both of you have. Like,where did your brain go when
you're like and, Max, I knowwhere maybe your brain went.
But let let's get both sideslet's get both sides of the
fence on create time sense andtime until properties.
Max Cohen (02:11):
Jax?
Chad Hohn (02:14):
No. Alright. So for me, they're awesome, helpful
visually, and in, like, indexpages and things. But if I'm not
mistaken, they can't fully beutilized inside of workflows as
you might hope they would.Right?
They're more of like a I thinkthey do it browser side
(02:34):
calculation. Maybe they don't.But like Oh,
Max Cohen (02:37):
so they don't store a value?
Chad Hohn (02:39):
Well, right. Because think about this. Like, if
architecturally at the back end,they're gonna have to update,
what, every one second, they'regonna have to make an API call
to the back end. Like, that'snot reasonable. Right?
Or, like, I and maybe there'sways to do it that I just don't
know about. Right? But, anyway,maybe in the workflow, they need
(02:59):
to build in some additionalfunctionality for when one of
those properties is called.They, like, actually store it
temporarily at the time that itgoes through that action. And
then it could cause slownesswith workflows.
So, anyway, there's some thingswhere it's not quite as useful,
but the user experience aboutthose properties is great. And I
(03:21):
don't know if they can be usedin reporting because I haven't I
haven't had tried to play withthose ones just yet. Right?
Yeah. But Yeah.
I would love for those to beable to use be used in
reporting. I think they can beused in filtering.
George B. Thomas (03:33):
Yeah. It's it's looking interesting because
the latest update as of January9, by the way, I see a
screenshot here. It's got abullet point around workflows,
and it shows it in a workflowscreenshot. It
Chad Hohn (03:46):
does. Okay.
George B. Thomas (03:47):
Yeah. It's in a list as well, which is
interesting. And, Chad, I'm gladyou brought up reporting
Chad Hohn (03:52):
because that's
George B. Thomas (03:53):
that's where I was like, this would be dope. It
even shows a bullet point in,like, single report viewer
dashboard and and shows it inthere. So, like, I think they're
extending it into, places andspaces that they Mhmm. They when
it maybe first was launched andpeople started playing around
with it in beta, now that Ithink it's live. Right?
(04:16):
Because that's the thing. Whenwhen, Chad, you saw it, beta.
Now that I'm bringing it to themasses live. Right? So there's
some, like, additions andchanges that have
Max Cohen (04:26):
been made.
George B. Thomas (04:27):
But but,
Max Cohen (04:28):
I mean, mister mister popsicle,
George B. Thomas (04:31):
mister mister
Max Cohen (04:32):
Well, first of all first of all, HubSpot community,
you're you're welcome. You'rewelcome. K? Yeah. Alright.
For those of you who don't knowit, like, this is exactly what
TikTok today was for. Right?Where
Chad Hohn (04:45):
Yeah.
Max Cohen (04:46):
The only way that we could figure out how to do this
is to create essentially atoday's date property and update
it every single day. Right? Anddo it. And like here you're as
well.
Chad Hohn (04:57):
Yeah. Like you didn't even have date time properties
inside of the HubSpot UI. Thatwas just date properties. But
you made it a date time in theback end.
Max Cohen (05:05):
Did we? Yeah,
Chad Hohn (05:06):
you made it a date time in the back end.
Max Cohen (05:08):
Probably. Yeah, we did that a lot for some reason.
Especially when you know eventhappily first came out and now
it's great because all thatstuff converted to actual date
time properties, which is good.The only thing
Chad Hohn (05:20):
that's, like, really goofy
Max Cohen (05:21):
about it. Yeah. The only thing that's really goofy
about it is have you guys evertried to copy a date time
property into a date property?Oh, no.
Chad Hohn (05:28):
Oh, yeah. Work? Via API, I have. Yeah. Because what
what happens is it says that itneeds to be at UTC midnight.
Max Cohen (05:38):
Yeah.
Chad Hohn (05:38):
And so if it's not at UTC midnight, it just Yeah. You
know? Same thing like if you'remaking a direct API call.
Max Cohen (05:44):
Yeah. It'll be really interesting too to see, if they
ever support date time on forms.Right? I have a theory they're
never going to because Why is
George B. Thomas (05:55):
why is that your theory?
Max Cohen (05:57):
Because it is going to create a lot of confusion and
anger around wanting to useHubSpot forms for, like, time
booking stuff. Right?
Chad Hohn (06:06):
Mhmm.
Max Cohen (06:08):
And it's it's not like it's gonna be able to say,
like, oh, block certain times inthe date time property if
something's, like, alreadybooked. Like, that is a whole
other, like, product you need tobuild. Right?
Chad Hohn (06:17):
Yeah.
Max Cohen (06:17):
So I think they're gonna avoid doing that to avoid
that, like, those confusions andsupport tickets and problems and
things like that. But don'tworry. We're thinking about some
stuff over here that we've beenthinking about for a long time.
George B. Thomas (06:30):
Well, I'd love to hear about that in the
future.
Max Cohen (06:32):
That I've been thinking about for almost ten
years now. Okay. So the otherthing too the the honestly, the
besides being able to, like, belike, cool. We solved that
problem for people. Now we can,like, spin that thing down.
It was a free app besides, like,if you wanted, like, multiple
objects, it was, like, $10 amonth or something like that. I
am just, so excited to stopseeing the LinkedIn posts of
people saying, HubSpot needs atoday's date property. Because,
(06:55):
no, it doesn't, and it neverdid. Right? Yeah.
Like, the thing is is, like, I Iwas stoked that they rolled it
out the way that I had alwaysenvisioned them rolling it out,
which is just, like, you selecta date, and then the other thing
just says today like, you know,time since or time until. Right?
And HubSpot should be smartenough to know what today's date
is to run whatever calculationit needs to do that. You don't
(07:18):
need it to take up a propertythat just holds today's date.
Right?
So, you know, even and, like,the way we did it with TikTok
today, that was, like, the onlyway we could do it because
HubSpot didn't do that. But thenthey finally rolled it out. They
rolled it out the way that I,you know, wanted it to be the
whole time, and it's great. Youknow, and, like, to be honest,
like, the real reason for allthat stuff is never really
(07:40):
workflow automation or reportingor anything like that. It's all
just about giving a visualindicator, like, on a record of
saying, oh, I only have x amountof time left or, wow, they've
been a customer since this long.
And, you know, being able to,like, deliver that information
to someone in a much easier wayto understand and digest than
just, like, an actual date.Right? Because if I just look at
a date, it's really tough for meto say, how long ago was that?
Because I gotta know exactlywhat today's date is, this,
(08:02):
that, the other thing. Right?
When if you're just like, yo,just tell me how long it is,
right, or how much time or howmuch time until
Chad Hohn (08:07):
You got really good at syncing in the number of days
from now or number of days agotype of a scenario.
Max Cohen (08:15):
Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah.
So it's it's, it's great. It'sout there. TikTok today did its
job. It was a love letter to theHubSpot community, and, now we
can start to wind it down, whichis great.
George B. Thomas (08:27):
There we go. And if you're listening to this
or watching this and you haven'tchecked out the create time
since and time until properties,make sure that you run over and
do that in the portal near you,which would hopefully be your
portal or maybe a client portalthat you're helping people with.
So let's go ahead and get intowhat HubSpot users should be
thinking about in 2025 andbeyond. Chad, we're gonna start
(08:49):
with you. Then, Max, I'll jumpto you, and then I'll go.
What's what's the first round ofthings that we think people
should be, thinking about? And,again, you take your pick of the
litter, marketing, sales,service, operation, business,
CMS. I don't care. What shouldpeople be thinking? HubSpot
users, people, human.
HubSpot users. Humans. OfHubSpot should be what should
(09:11):
they be thinking of in 2025 andbeyond?
Chad Hohn (09:14):
I mean, I think when it when it comes to me, I always
like to grow my skills. Right?And, like, as an somebody in an
admin position or, like, really,I'm in a technical integrations
type of a position at themoment. I did not have a lot of
the skills last year that I havethis year. Right?
(09:35):
And that now I'm able to, like,teach and give others and try
and, like, elevate the rest ofmy team by teaching them how to
do some of the things that I'velearned. And so I would say,
like, pick a thing you don'tknow how to do yet and really
try and dedicate a little bit oftime to learning it or playing
(09:57):
around in that area. Now thatcould be like, hey. I wanna
learn about AI models and GPTmemory or, like, programming
them to be an agent. That couldbe any number of different
things.
Like, you know, if you don'tknow HubSpot CMS, go make a
dummy website for, like, can hascheeseburger.com or something.
Max Cohen (10:18):
Oh. And
Chad Hohn (10:18):
then see if you can yeah. Go get your, you know,
some sort of, like, all thedifferent flow paths that a
customer would take to can hascheeseburger and, like, develop
that journey if you're not intoCMS or, like, HubSpot CMS.
Because if you've never donethat before, learn it. You know,
I know that would be one of myweak areas. Right?
(10:39):
But luckily, we all can grow,and you can do anything as long
as you really just put your mindto it and start playing around
with it and and exposingyourself to it. And so, like,
for me, I think one of thethings I wanna learn is just
from the ground up how toinstall HubSpot custom
extensions, right, and how towork with modifying the HubSpot
(11:01):
UI beyond what they just giveyou out the box. I wanna be able
to do that soup to nuts. Right?And, like, including getting
that code into, like, a GitHubrepo and being able to, like,
work with Git so you cancheck-in new code and have it
pushed to your HubSpot portal,stuff like that.
Like that, I think at somepoint, I want to be able to take
(11:22):
that thing and build simple,really practical, helpful
extensions to our users, HubSpotwithout having to call in a
developer. Right. And so that'sone of the skills. And I think
pick a skill like that,something practical that's
beyond you right now that youcan't do, but you have at least
enough of the underlyingstructure to take yourself
(11:45):
there. I I could not have chosenthis last year, and this is like
a practical example of it.
Like, I didn't know how to doenough API call integration
stuff. Like, I knew aboutHubSpot. I knew about workflows,
but I didn't know, like, how todo data storage, data management
in, like, a data table. I didn'tknow how to really, like, from
(12:06):
the ground up, actually make APIcalls. And now I'm, like,
reading API docs and doingintegrations no problem because
I can get through it andnavigate my way around.
And there's still some trial anderror. There's still some assist
AI assistant need, you know, attimes, but, I'm able to work my
way through those things.Because last year, I got some of
(12:27):
the backing skill to do this newthing. And I don't want people
to, like, actually be like, oh,well, I wanna, like, send a
rocket to the moon, you know,because, like, you're not gonna
send a rocket to the moon if youdon't already have, like, a
vehicle assembly building and,like, you know, liquid methane
and liquid oxygen plant and allthese other things that you're
gonna need to do it. Right?
George B. Thomas (12:47):
I love it. I I love how, by the way, I asked
you for one thing, and youalmost kind of snuck in a little
bit of three things becauseyou're like, well, you need to
grow your skills, number one.And as you were talking through
there, you're like and thenmaybe play along the way, which
is, like, number two. And thenyou're like and sometimes with
an AI assistant, which is kindof like number three, by the
(13:08):
way, because it's like
Chad Hohn (13:09):
AMP subsection a.
George B. Thomas (13:11):
Yeah. Yeah. Have, like, a mentor slash
helper slash assistant along theway. Perfect. Right.
But baseline, grow your skillsand figure out how to do things
that once seem difficult orimpossible to you as a human. I
love that. Max, when when youthink about HubSpot users, and
you think about twenty twentyfive and beyond, what should
they be focusing on?
Max Cohen (13:31):
Sorry. I muted myself. I do agree a lot with
Chad in that, you know, I kindasee this year as being a another
sort of, like, banner year forUI customization and
extensibility. I'd say keep aheavy lookout for AI to collide
(13:54):
with that at some point. Maybenot this year, but I'd say
definitely the year after.
I've seen some stuff that Ican't talk about. I've seen some
stuff I can't talk about. But,you know, it's I I feel like the
there is there is, like, a bigremember when we kinda had,
(14:16):
like, the year of, like, UIextensibility. Right? And they
released tons and tons ofcustomization options.
They went really hard on, like,the record editor and, like,
unified all that and did thatthing. There's still so much
more to go with that. Like and Ifeel like a lot of that's been
kind of, like, taken over by,like, the whole Breeze wave and
(14:37):
everything, and people have kindof, like, lost sight of that a
little bit. And, like, a lot ofthe things that have happened
recently have kinda been, like,a little bit more under the
radar just because it's livingin the shadow of all the the AI
improvements and stuff likethat. Sure.
You know, so I'd say don't don'tlose sight of, you know, what's
possible around customizationand UI extension. Like, how many
(14:59):
years out do you think we arefrom, you know, given AI's
ability to code. Right? And,like, HubSpot's UI
extensibility. Like, how faraway are we from, like, an AI
created CRM extension?
Right? Dude, we might be wemight be does the technology
exist today to do that? Yep. Ofcourse. Of course
George B. Thomas (15:20):
it does. If if you're if you're not playing
with Replit yet What's Replit?Oh, well, Replit is like, AI
coding. Anyway, not why we'rehere.
Max Cohen (15:30):
Yeah.
George B. Thomas (15:31):
But but if people aren't playing with
Replit and looking at what itcan do but but go ahead, Megs.
Max Cohen (15:36):
Megs. Yeah. And I think also just, like, the the
kind of general advice I wouldgive, like, every year, and I
feel like I'd probably startgiving it even more and more and
more just just kind of given allthe advancements across
everything. It's like startthinking about stuff that you
can do with HubSpot that youjust haven't been able to do
before or you haven't thoughtabout integrating into the rest
of your business. Right.
Like it could do so much.
Chad Hohn (15:58):
Yeah. The stuff that was once impossible to bring in
is becoming so much morepossible in a useful way, not in
just properties, but actually ina useful way.
Max Cohen (16:09):
Yeah. But what I really I I What I really really
want to see is how, you know, alot of these super super useful
things, right? Are still kindof, like, gated behind the, do
you have developer resources?Yes, no Yep. Like, problem.
Right? Yep. And what I reallywanna see is HubSpot kind of,
(16:31):
like, break down that barrierof, like, what requires a
developer from, like, a CRM UI,you know, extension perspective.
Like, we'll always need themfor, you know, CMS stuff. Right?
Especially when you wanna get,like, really precise and and,
you know, super fancy. Supercustom. Right? Like, AI can
really only get you so farthere. Right?
(16:54):
But, like, you know, you youlook at Salesforce and, like,
their declarative, like, flowbuilder and, like, all that kind
of stuff. Like, they need tobring more of that into, like,
the UI extensions world, right,where it's, like, you're
building UI extensions through adrag and drop editor. You're
customizing what sort of stuffhappens in the back end, how it
talks to the data and, like,does all these different things.
(17:16):
Right? I think that would bejust kind of a really cool
thing, and I and I hope theystart to deploy kinda something
like that.
Right? So I would I would reallykinda keep an eye on around what
they're planning for, sort of,like, democratizing and really
unlocking some of the real deepcustomization stuff when it
comes to, like, buildingprocesses inside of HubSpot.
(17:36):
And, you know, not just like,what does the UI look like?
Things like that. Right.
You know?
Chad Hohn (17:41):
Yeah. They've been doing some really cool things
surrounding, like, allowing AIto unlock things that are more
difficult for people who justdon't understand a tool. Right?
Max Cohen (17:52):
Sure.
Chad Hohn (17:52):
And like, one of those examples is, like, have
you guys seen how propertyvalidation can now occur with
regex or regular expressions?Well, they just added an AI
assistant to
Max Cohen (18:04):
you
Chad Hohn (18:05):
tell it what regex you want. You're like, I need an
invoice number to always startwith an I and followed by a dash
and three letters and then sixnumbers. And it can only be two
of these letters, and then it'llYeah. Bit out a regex formula
for you. And then you can testit in the regex editor, like,
all while you're creating theproperty right where you need
(18:26):
it.
It's amazing.
Max Cohen (18:27):
Which is brilliant because, like, how was anyone
writing those regex formulasbefore that had never heard of
regex? You're going to chat g pt and you say, give me a regex
expression for, you know, thisexact formatting. And it's like,
cool. Just build that right.
Chad Hohn (18:39):
They just add that with a specific prompt to, like,
highlight and look for yeah.
Max Cohen (18:43):
Yeah. And I and I really want people to play, like
this is more so, like I don'tknow if this is, like, what you
should be thinking about in2025, but it's what you should
be looking for at least andhoping HubSpot should be doing.
You should be asking for it.Right? Is that a lot of this AI
stuff needs to be heavily aimedat the admin and making life
easier for an admin versus just,like, content creation and Mhmm.
(19:09):
Sales enablement. Right? Like,you know, again, like, I'm still
waiting for the day where, youknow, a a partner can hop into a
HubSpot portal that, you know,is in dire straits and be like,
hey, Copilot. What's wrong withyou? And then Copilot goes, oh,
thank god you're here.
Listen. These people are doingthis. They're they're doing full
(19:30):
names for full full sentencesfor property names. They're
doing all that. You know what Imean?
Because it's gonna have all thatinformation. Right? But, you
know, it's it's they've I don'twanna say they've over indexed.
They've really only focused onthe creative parts, I think,
when it come I mean, sure. Theyhave some admin stuff.
But, like, the majority of thethings that we've seen with AI
(19:51):
and HubSpot has all been thecreative side, which is good.
They need to address thatbecause that is the hardest
thing to do in HubSpot by far,right, for folks that aren't
admins is, like, the creativeside of this work, right, and
and and, you know, buildingsome, like, leverage around
that. You know, but there's somuch they could be doing from,
like, a helping out the adminpoint of view. Right? And giving
(20:14):
giving the portal a voice tosay, this is what's wrong with
me.
Please help. Right?
George B. Thomas (20:19):
Yeah. I I love the idea of there being, like, a
a nurse or a doctor bot, of,like, HubSpot. Like, here's
where I'm sick. You
Chad Hohn (20:28):
know? Yeah.
George B. Thomas (20:30):
But Well, no.
Max Cohen (20:30):
It just needs to be the portal just because it can
understand what a good portallooks like and what a bad portal
looks like and best practicesfrom one to the other, and then
put that
Intro (20:40):
into the kind
Chad Hohn (20:41):
of in the eyes.
Max Cohen (20:41):
I mean, h why why shouldn't it be able to?
George B. Thomas (20:43):
It should be able to. It should be able to.
Perspective. And how do youYeah.
Max Cohen (20:47):
That's what I'm saying, bro.
George B. Thomas (20:48):
Business. I mean, beauty is in the
Max Cohen (20:50):
eye of the beholder. It shouldn't be that difficult
to understand what industry it'sin and, like, all those things.
It can find that informationout.
George B. Thomas (20:57):
Yeah. Right? And it should
Max Cohen (20:58):
become smarter over time. And, you know, the the
your portal should have a littleAI voice to say, hey. Like, I'm
struggling. Yeah. I agree.
Change some shit. Yeah.
Chad Hohn (21:09):
I agree. It would be surrounding user engagement
based on the number of nonpartner users. It would be, you
know, surrounding, like, what wehave, like, one client that was,
like, over 950 customproperties. Like, that's a lot
you're tracking more data pointsthan, like, Meta is trying to
track other customers at thatpoint. Yeah.
You know, like, that's a lot,but a lot of them are like,
(21:29):
abandoned. And like, oh, theymessed up my lifecycle stages or
whatever. Like, these customones are added. They're not
being used, and they seem tohave nothing to do with
marketing or, you know, some keythings, like, really the the key
HubSpot properties. Here's oneof the unfortunate scenarios
that occurs that causes peopleto go down some of those roads,
(21:50):
I think, is not knowing thatwell, a, that Kyle's HubSpot
default property cheat sheetthing exists.
Like, if you've never beenaround HubSpot or even if you
have and you've never taken alook at that thing, it's really
helpful to understand these area and it's had refreshes
(22:11):
recently. These are defaultproperties that are in HubSpot
that we're trying to think aheadfor junk you're gonna need. And,
you know, they're autocalculated or they have these
mechanisms, and people just archahead. Oh, yeah. They make their
own version of all these thingsall the time.
George B. Thomas (22:29):
Dude, one of the things that I've and I love
Kyle's thing, but one of thethings I've said for years is,
like, the best search that youcan do before creating any type
of property or process is, like,HubSpot default x y z, HubSpot
default contact properties,HubSpot default subscription
properties, HubSpot becausethere's a knowledge article that
(22:50):
has the properties and thedescription of what it does.
And, like Mhmm. When youunderstand your portal at that
intimate level
Max Cohen (22:59):
Mhmm.
George B. Thomas (23:00):
Then you don't start creating, like, your
scenario that you talked about.You know what's interesting too?
Max, you were talking aboutcreative, the the content being
the hardest part of HubSpot or,like, inbound strategy. Content
agent, has a beta out right now,by the way. Better blog topic
suggestions.
I don't know if you guys sawthat, but it's, it rolled out
recently. I think maybe, like, acouple days ago, January 10 or
(23:22):
something like that, as the timeof this recording. But now,
like, what was happening incontent agent is it would give
you one suggestion. If youenroll in this beta now, it's
gonna give you threesuggestions, but it's also Yeah.
But it's gonna give youinformation to why it made the
suggestions, which I think isvery interesting.
Chad Hohn (23:42):
That GPT version where it's, like, tries to act
like it's thinking. You know?It's like, oh, yeah. Like, oh, I
went down this branch, and thenhere's why I went down that
branch. And then I went downthis branch.
And
Max Cohen (23:54):
Isn't that an o one? Isn't that an o one thing? It
does they call it reasoning.Right?
George B. Thomas (23:59):
Yeah. And so maybe they're pulling into that,
but it's very interesting to methat now you would of course,
you need more. You you shouldhave, as a human, as a Human.
You should have the ability topick and then go in your kind of
own creative direction. But thefact that they're making things
better and and to do that sohere's the thing I wanna make
sure I jump in here and I sayand it and it might be two
(24:21):
things.
I might be cheating, but, like,listen. Twenty twenty five is
not 2024. Yeah. We all kindacheated. But 2025 is not 2024.
Do not let his, history dictatewhere you're headed in the
future. I don't know aboutanybody else, but 2024 felt a
little bit difficult when itcomes to business, when it comes
Max Cohen (24:39):
to marketing for 2025.
George B. Thomas (24:41):
When it comes to sales, it it it felt a little
difficult. Right? So, my hopesis that 2025 is better for, all
of us humans, better for all ofus HubSpot users. And so, again,
my my intro to this is, it's anew year. Let's treat it like
one.
Let's let's shut off the oldmindset, bring on the new
(25:02):
mindset, and, like, empowerpeople to, like, move forward.
Now with that being said, one ofthe things that I hope people
are paying attention to in 2025,because with all of the things,
the bells, the whistles, the AI,the squirrel moments, the silver
bullets, like, with all of that,like, I hope in 2025, we are
focused on how do we build ahuman centric system. And when I
(25:25):
say human centric, I'm talkingabout internal processes. I'm
talking about external customerexperiences. Like, how how do we
in a world where everything isso powered by something, how do
we make sure it's empatheticallydriven by us, the humans?
So I I just I wanna throw thatout into the world. I know it's
(25:47):
not very HubSpot specific, butit's definitely, the inbound
ecosystem specific. One of thethings that I loved about
inbound at the beginning was thethe humanness of it all, the the
fact that you could be amarketer and not feel bad about
yourself, the fact that youcould help humans and not
interrupt their dinner at night.Like and so just, like, figure
(26:09):
out how is part of your strategyin 2025 human centric, internal
and external. Alright.
Let's let's, Wait. Can we Yes,Max.
Max Cohen (26:18):
Can we can we expand on that? Can we, like, define
what that means? Because I feellike I have a I feel like I I
have my understanding of whatyou're saying there.
George B. Thomas (26:26):
So what are your thoughts? When I when I say
that, where does your brain go?
Max Cohen (26:29):
You sell to humans and you employ humans. Right?
Yeah. And so, you know, in termsof, like, what does that mean?
Right?
I think it's, like, you know,obviously, you wanna create a
great customer experience.
George B. Thomas (26:45):
Yeah.
Max Cohen (26:45):
Right? You wanna treat your customers like human
beings because they are humanbeings, which means be good to
them, take care of them, don'tlie to them, make them
successful.
George B. Thomas (26:57):
Yes. Make
Max Cohen (26:58):
them, you know, make them understand that they are
special because they're givingyou money. Right?
George B. Thomas (27:03):
Yeah.
Max Cohen (27:04):
Take care of them. But do the same thing for your
damn employees. Right? Yeah. Andwhat does that and what does
that what does that mean in thecontext of HubSpot?
Right? Yeah. Stop looking atHubSpot as a way that you could
track every single thing thatthey're doing. Yeah. Right?
Like, think less about thinkless about reports on
activities. Right? And think alittle bit more of how are you
(27:26):
making people's jobs easierYeah. And their lives easier.
How are you putting theinformation in front of them to
help them do their job versuslooking at the CRM as the thing
I have to track everything I'mdoing so my bosses know I'm
working.
Bro. But and there's too manypeople that still look at it
(27:46):
that way.
Chad Hohn (27:47):
Right. And people paint it as, oh, well, it's so
you can find everything,
Max Cohen (27:51):
but
Chad Hohn (27:51):
then they know what's up.
Max Cohen (27:53):
You if you think that's what it is. Like that
like and here's the thing.Ready? K. I can respect that a
company wants to make sure thepeople they're paying to do
their job are doing their job.
I can respect that salesmanagers want some kind of
tangible proof that thestrategies they're deploying,
(28:15):
the playbooks that they'rerunning, the the things the the
behaviors that they're trying toreinforce into their sales reps,
into whoever, it's happening. Ican respect that. But there's a
trade there. K? The trade is isthat if we're giving you this
system so we get something outof it, we being management,
(28:38):
leadership, whoever.
Right? What they're getting outof it is like, oh, I can I can
see what you're doing? I can seeyou're doing your job. I can see
we're moving in the rightdirection to hit whatever goals
we have, whether it's across theorganization or in specific
departments, whatever. Thosepeople aren't gonna wanna use
that thing to do that because,like, think about it.
There's besides, like, keepingtheir job, there isn't
(29:00):
inherently much benefit theyhave of using a CRM if that's
all it's for. It's like makingsure you're doing your job.
Right? They're gonna use it whenit actually brings value to
them. So start thinking a littlebit more about how your CRM adds
value into the day to day andquality of life and quality of
(29:23):
work and enjoyment of that workand the enablement of doing that
work, right, and decreasingburnout.
Right? How do you make your CRMa positive thing for the humans
that work for you? Right? How doyou make them go, fuck. I love
this thing.
Right?
George B. Thomas (29:43):
Yeah.
Max Cohen (29:44):
And I actually I I I I input the stuff that you wanna
see that's telling me I'm doingmy job as a byproduct of me
using this thing because it'sactually helping me and making
me enjoy my work, be enabled todo my best work, making it
easier for me to do work, andmaking it just easier for me to
(30:06):
do the fun parts of my job,which would be interacting with
customers, treating them likegenuine humans, and making sure
they're getting helped out andsuccessful. Right? And stopping
me from hating my job. Right?That's what you need to think
about.
Because if you do those things,right, whether it's, you know,
making the UI more customized sopeople can find what they need
(30:29):
faster and it's all right thereand it's easy to use and
understand, sure. Maybe it'sputting in, you know, internal
document documentation to makethings, like, easier for people
to find answers quickly. Ifit's, you know, doing all the
things that, you know, stoppeople from having to type the
same email over and over againor blah blah blah blah. Like,
things that just make their dayto day not so much of a slog.
(30:50):
Right?
Whatever it is that improves thequality of life of your
employees. Right? If you'redoing that stuff and they're
actively using it and they'relike, this is a net benefit to
me versus just something else Ihave to do on top of, like,
taking care of all thesecustomers. Right? Just because
(31:10):
upper management wants to seethat I'm logging my activities
or whatever.
Right? That logging of activityand and and logging of units of
work or whatever, that will be anatural byproduct of you making
HubSpot a joyful thing to workinside of. Okay? But the problem
is so many people just start offsaying, I wanna see how many
(31:33):
emails and how many callseveryone's setting up, and I
wanna set up these dashboards soI can tell everybody they're not
making enough calls and notdoing this and not to bro, if
that's the way you're stilllooking at HubSpot, I don't know
what to tell you. Well You knowwhat I mean?
George B. Thomas (31:46):
More than that, if that's the way that
you're still looking atbusiness, I don't know what to
tell you. Because, Max, whenwhen I when I hear you talk
about this, it's funny becauseyou're kinda colliding two
worlds for me right now. It'slike it's like, okay. Do do the
and we're just talking internalteam, but we could literally
talk external user experience aswell. But, does the team really
(32:07):
know the true purpose of theCRM?
Not the one that you've made up,not the one that you're being
selfish about, but the truepurpose. Like, what why do we
have this in place? We we'vegotta think about, you know,
platform, process, and people,but what's the purpose of the
CRM, the platform being in here?How does this platform enable
(32:28):
you to spend more time doingwhat you're passionate about?
Right?
And how do we as leadersactually care or love enough to
be able to, use the data thatwe're getting to create a better
culture, to to lessen burnout,to create psychological safety,
to get more creative, to getmore ideas, to move faster, to
(32:49):
innovate? Like, there's a happyword
Max Cohen (32:51):
for us. HubSpot.
George B. Thomas (32:53):
Yeah. No. It's not.
Max Cohen (32:54):
Yeah. No. It's not. Like, that's the thing. And,
like, what you should be askingwhen you're first saying,
alright, oh, we're gonna rollHubSpot out.
Right? Or, oh, we rolled HubSpotout. You shouldn't be saying,
this is what you do in HubSpot.It should be, what do you what
do you guys need? Yeah.
Hey, support team. What do youneed? Hey, sales team. What do
you need?
George B. Thomas (33:14):
See. Now you're talking
Max Cohen (33:14):
about what can we what can we do? Leadership.
Yeah. What can we do to makeyour life easier? Right?
Not Yeah. This is where you logyour calls, this is how you log
your emails, and this is thedashboard that tells you if
you're doing a better job thanthe other person. Yeah. No. No.
It's what do you need? What doyou what what can this help you?
And that's, like again, anytimeI was, like, doing
implementation, I'm, like,rolling this out to sales teams.
(33:37):
Right? And managers wanna be,like, I wanna I want you to show
the guys how to log an email andhow to, like, dump in a template
and how to I I would never justdo that.
I go, hey, guys. What sucksabout your job and and and and
what can we do to make it betterwith this thing? Right? And and,
unfortunately, that's not, like,what a lot of people are are
doing. They're just leadingwith, like, we've got this this
unruly sales team that we needto make sure is actually doing
(34:00):
the work properly and brought upit's just like, come on, man.
Chad Hohn (34:03):
So do that, man. Bad rap. Yeah.
George B. Thomas (34:05):
Do do that in 2025. Chad, what else should
HubSpot users be payingattention to in 2025?
Chad Hohn (34:12):
Yeah. I mean, we've talked about it a ton on this
show. And just in general, Ithink all of us are at least
some level of enthusiastic aboutit. But if you're not the person
who's, like, super excited aboutAI and LMM functionality in your
business, at least make surethat somebody is and that you
(34:39):
are working with them at leastreasonably syncing up to give
them ideas or for them to tellyou what they're working on to
spark ideas for you. You know,because maybe you're just busy
doing other things or working onyour own skill as we talked
about before or whatever it is.
But, make sure somebody's gotnot their finger on the pulse of
(35:05):
they don't need to be, like,looking at, oh, every new little
thing that happens, but, like,at least reasonably trying to
make AI do useful things andhelp it be a little more
automagical in your businessprocess outside of just, I'm
gonna talk to Breeze, you know,in the UI when I need to. Right?
(35:27):
Like, that's not what we'reafter as much as, like, well, we
want to be able to have like, wehave a a a thing at our our
business called a dilutionextraction that we get from each
of the employees that work at abusiness. So every employee
fills out that form, and theyuse their business email, which
automagically associates them tothe company. And we get a list
(35:51):
of people and their job titlesand what they feel could improve
about the company and all ofthis sort of stuff.
One of the things we wanna do istake all of this these questions
that are specific to theemployee and not necessarily
even shared with the employee,but automatically program a GPT
that you can ask about thatbusiness. So, you know, Roof
(36:16):
Whatever Inc. Bot knows aboutwhat all the employees feel when
they're there. And then it alsoknows about the value extraction
that we're trying to get as acompany. This is the company's
goals, and this is how thehumans feel.
And you can talk to Roof CompanyInc. Bot about that business.
(36:37):
Right? And, like, program thatautomatically so you can get
some more context for thesepeople and for what they're
doing in the business and whatthe business is trying to
accomplish. Right?
And so, like, that's an exampleof how to maybe use AI
practically in your businessflow that's not just talking to
Breeze. Right? You're, like,actually making a specific model
(36:59):
that's relevant to all yourinteractions with Breeze in a
way or sorry, with, you know,with this business and how to
update it. Right? So if you'renot the one, at least make sure
someone is.
And that's it's fine. You don'thave to be the one. Right? But
somebody in your business shouldbe at least interested in it and
doing things in it with it orthinking about things that they
(37:22):
could do.
George B. Thomas (37:22):
Yeah. It's such a magical playground right
now. Like, literally, we createda a custom well, it started out
as a project and then a customGPT for a client around tax
strategies. I'll just say thatmuch. To and we got it to the
point where we could list thename of the person.
We we want you to write anarticle as this human or write
(37:44):
an article as this human, and itwould know the changes and
difference to make as far as,like it it's crazy. And and just
the way that we program anotherexample of this, I was working
over the weekend on a a passionproject where, I can show you
the documentation based on aprocess that I went through
(38:05):
where I can ask my GPT what arethe 25 mindsets that make George
b Thomas the way he is, andit'll spit it out, and it's spot
on. What are the 25 beliefs thatGeorge b Thomas has that make
him interact with the world inthis way? What are the what are
the core values? And and so,like, if your assistant for your
(38:27):
business doesn't know it at anintimate level
Chad Hohn (38:31):
Mhmm.
George B. Thomas (38:31):
Because because that's where you start
to get into these magical placesof, like, it just knows
everything it can know, andyou're directing it into, like,
oh, we're just getting itanyway. Not an AI show, but
we're just getting into somereally crazy cool places that
you as business owners, businessleaders, even employees can get
into to be to be leveraging AI.Let me go back out of AI before
(38:55):
I get sucked in. One thing thatI want people to pay attention
to because it's interesting overthe last couple of months if you
watch, There was a a a an updateslash beta around, HubSpot email
tool and having mobile, like,mobile settings
Chad Hohn (39:11):
in
George B. Thomas (39:12):
there for mobile email.
Chad Hohn (39:13):
Mobile optimized email.
George B. Thomas (39:14):
Yeah. I wanna let everybody know there's a new
update slash beta that they cango enjoy as well, which is like
a whole new sidebar in themarketing email editor, which is
really interesting. Because ifyou look at the screenshots and
you've ever messed around withlanding pages or website pages,
like theme, it looks veryreminiscent to that. The level
(39:39):
of
Chad Hohn (39:39):
the brand new layout. It's how the multi step form
editor is, too.
George B. Thomas (39:42):
Yeah. It's really interesting. So
definitely, pay attention to,email. And and since I'm
bringing up the email tool,maybe pay attention to how
you're actually leveraging ornot leveraging email inside of
your organization. Because,while some people wanna say
email's dead, I think crappyemail might be dead, but good
(40:03):
email is still a
Max Cohen (40:04):
Crapy email's always been dead.
George B. Thomas (40:05):
Yeah. It's always been dead.
Max Cohen (40:06):
But it
Chad Hohn (40:06):
is live. Extra dead now.
George B. Thomas (40:09):
Yeah. It's it's a viable way to
communicate. And I would justhave you take a second glance, a
third glance in 2025 and say,what email efforts have we been
applying? What email efforts wehaven't? Like, what could we be
doing better, what could we bedoing different, but definitely,
email in 2025 as Mhmm.
(40:30):
As far as new folks, nurtures,and current folks, customers.
Like, how are we delighting themas well? Max, HubSpot users,
twenty twenty five, what shouldthey be focusing on?
Max Cohen (40:41):
I mean, besides everything that we talked about,
you know, I'd here's, I guess, achallenge that I would I would
pose Yeah. Right, to to anyHubSpot user out there. If
there's a hub you haven'texplored, go 10 miles deep into
it this year. Yeah. Right?
Like, you might have gottenreally good at marketing hub.
(41:03):
You might have gotten reallygood at sales hub. You might
have gotten really good at, youknow, Service Hub. But when was
the last time you even, like,just sat down and said, hey. I'm
gonna learn everything I canabout CMS Hub.
I'm gonna learn everything I canabout ops hub. Right? Those
things are, you know, often,very unexplored, I feel. Right?
You know, from from from a lotof users because, of course,
(41:26):
there's, like, the big three,marketing, sales, and service.
I'd even say service is muchless explored by a lot of
people. Like, you know
Chad Hohn (41:34):
I love service.
Max Cohen (41:35):
I'd say you I'd say yeah. I'd say 90% of the people
that are really, really good atHubSpot out there are really,
really good at marketing andSales Hub. Right? But haven't
had a reason to dive intoService Hub because maybe, like,
they're one of those companiesthat still looks at it as a
marketing and sales tool. Right?
And hasn't really thought about,oh, what can we do to actually,
(41:55):
like, help our customers usingthis instead of it all just
going to that one support inboxthat we have sitting somewhere.
Right? Or, like, you know, whatwhat the hell is this operations
hub thing actually? Right? It'slike, you know, if you haven't
explored any of the CMS stuff, Imean, it's a whole I mean, it's
not just CMS stuff now.
It's content.
Chad Hohn (42:16):
Literally. It's a
Max Cohen (42:17):
Right. It's content. I mean, CMS
Chad Hohn (42:18):
is, like, almost as much as learning all of the
other hubs combined.
Max Cohen (42:22):
Yeah. Sorry. If you're a marketer and you
haven't gone full balls intointo into into content hub, I I
don't know what to tell you.Right? Podcast.
This is the year to be it.
George B. Thomas (42:32):
Source library. Like
Max Cohen (42:33):
A %. So, like, you know, what I would say, like,
you know, your HubSpot NewYear's resolution is go, what's
that hub I don't know anythingabout, and how can I spend this
year becoming an expert in it?Right?
George B. Thomas (42:45):
Can I
Max Cohen (42:45):
because, like, Gary, too, you're gonna find yeah?
You're gonna find you're gonnafind reasons to use it and
reasons to spend money on it,but you can
George B. Thomas (42:53):
enjoy it. Go more granular than that. Like, I
agree with the hub thing. I Itotally agree with you. But,
like, listen.
One of the things I wanna talkabout paying attention to in
2025 is help desk. If you justlook at what's been going on,
help desk message analytics,help desk analyze tab, help desk
summary tab, like, all thethings that's helping happening
(43:14):
around help desk. So, like, ifyou go so I wanna talk about
workspaces. Like, if you're notdiving into the sales workspace
or the help desk or the customersuccess, you know, beta,
workspace. Like so Hub, yes.
But even, like, workspace, like,is there a workspace that you
haven't been paying attention toor leveraging inside your
(43:36):
organization? Like, 2025 is thebest time to to probably move in
those directions and
Chad Hohn (43:42):
understand the greater better than they were.
The workspaces came out lastyear. Obviously, start is their
tiny box, and they grow into amore rich feature set. The
prospecting workspace turnedinto the sales workspace, which
is really bringing together thelead and the sales management
process. It's great.
I mean, did you guys know thathelp desk got a board view now
(44:04):
so you can see your ticket boardview inside of your all tickets
view? And you get custom filterproperties at the top of both
the board and the list view. Imean, like, they have the
ability to add a custom app onthe right hand sidebar and
customize the right hand sidebarin help desk. They have, like,
the email AI replies that youcan train on your KBAs. Email
(44:26):
editor can pop out now.
Like, I mean, there's so manygood things going on there.
Like, the help desk team hasbeen killing it, and they're
working on, like, capacity levelroutings for all channels. Like,
if everybody is full up, like,where do the tickets go so you
can pass them out? Like, theamount of things that they're
doing there is so impressive.And, like, ticket splitting,
(44:51):
ticket merging, you know, I knowthese are basic things, but
there are things that HubSpot'snever had before.
George B. Thomas (44:57):
Yeah.
Chad Hohn (44:57):
And it's trading blows with the big boys in the
help desk space for sure. Andbecause it's all in one spot,
you have access to more oh, theyjust literally added the ability
to associate invoices to ticketsso that you could use your help
desk as kind of a salesfunctionality. Like, for
example, at RBP, we utilize,like, fuel to represent how much
(45:21):
effort we've assigned totickets, and they utilize their
fuel, and they can get morefuel. And if they wanna, like,
use a payment link to buy fuel,they can add fuel to their
account so we can process, like,a dev type request and build
them something. But now theinvoice can be associated to the
ticket.
Right? So, like, all thesethings that just never were
possible in help desk. And opshub is, like, its own sack of
(45:45):
glory. It's just so good. Like,I love ops hub.
And, like, if you don't havesomebody who loves ops hub,
that's something you should getbecause like that and somebody
who loves, you know, AI. They'rethey you kinda need both because
you need structured data. Like,I know AI deals with
unstructured data well. But ifyou give AI structured data,
(46:07):
it's that much better.
George B. Thomas (46:09):
Right? Knock out. Knock out. One two punch.
So Yeah.
I'll I'll I'll give one lastthing that I want people to
definitely pay attention to in2025. It's actually gonna be
something that I'm I'm gonna I'mgonna be very vulnerable and
authentic here in about, aboutten seconds. And then, by the
way, gentlemen, I'm gonna ask,like, what's what's the one
(46:31):
takeaway that you're kinda like,oh, man. After this
conversation, I need to do x y za b c. So the last thing I wanna
say to HubSpot users in 2025 is,if you've abandoned HubSpot
Academy because you've been inthe trenches for, you know, ten
plus years, eight plus years,seven plus years, and you think
you've done it all, been there,seen that, I want you to pay
(46:53):
attention to HubSpot Academy in2025 because if you go on
LinkedIn, Courtney Sembler,they're hiring a new position,
if not multiple positions forHubSpot Academy.
It almost feels like they'regetting ready to double down on
the things that they're doing.And, also, the the reason I'm
bringing this up is because Iwas on the HUG admin, training
(47:16):
January, the beginning of this,month. We talked about defining
your role, by the way, as aHubSpot super admin. It's part
of our HubSpot super admintraining. But I asked a question
in there.
I said, how many of you have thereporting certification and the
amount of no's that flooded up,in in the the super admin hog,
(47:36):
the amount of
Chad Hohn (47:37):
to have them.
George B. Thomas (47:38):
Nose that flooded up, I was like, wow. So
for all these years, I've beenan advocate of HubSpot Academy,
and I must continue to be anadvocate of HubSpot Academy.
Meaning, I'm an advocate foreducation. I'm I'm an advocate
for growing yourself. Chad, I'mgoing back almost to your first
thing of, like, your skills.
Like, what certification don'tyou have? What certification
(48:00):
should you have? And how manytimes per week or per month are
you checking back in for newlessons that could be learned
that could impact you as anindividual or the organizations
that you work at? So for 2025,that's gonna be a big, focus for
me because as somebody who has,at one time in my life, had 41
(48:20):
HubSpot certifications by theway, I think Jorge is at 52 now.
Anyway
Max Cohen (48:25):
Is he? Yeah.
Chad Hohn (48:26):
I think he's got it out there.
George B. Thomas (48:27):
It's it's crazy. I I need to go back and I
need to research, and I alsoneed to get new ones, and and
that needs to be a focus for memoving forward. So, anyway okay.
Max, what's your big takeawayfrom today's episode?
Max Cohen (48:42):
I mean, the big the big the big takeaway is is for
me is, like, yes. AI is going tobe absolutely insane in 2025,
for HubSpot, but that is not theonly thing. Yeah. There is the
there is a bit of a where how Isay this. I'm not kidding.
George B. Thomas (49:06):
Be easy. Don't get canceled.
Max Cohen (49:10):
Oh, pardon you pardon you, Chad. Sorry. I was just
stressed that I just I think itit it it will be a year to to
the basics really well. It'llalso be a year where taking care
of people is going to be moreimportant than it ever has been.
Yeah.
Mhmm. K? But also but also, froma tool perspective, it's gonna
(49:36):
be a lot more than just AI.Right? And and don't don't lose
sight of everything going onaround and behind the the big,
you know, the big crazy breezeexplosion this year.
Alright? Just Yeah. Payattention to the stuff around
the edges of the big shining AIlight that's gonna be, you know,
(49:58):
blasting from the center of thistool. Right? There there will be
extremely cool things happeningto the tool that aren't just AI.
Yeah. Right? You know, so payattention to that. Double down
on the learning. Right?
Explore stuff that you're notcomfortable with. Explore stuff
(50:18):
that you don't understand. And,yeah, embrace it, man. It's
gonna be a crazy year.
George B. Thomas (50:24):
Chad, what's your big takeaway from this
episode?
Chad Hohn (50:28):
Yeah. I just think, that I don't have enough certs
again. I feel bad because I letall my certs lapse because I,
you know, like, I mean, it'seasy to get in the middle of
everything. I'm like, well, I'mbuilding things that are like
that I think are pretty cool andI think are pretty useful. But,
yeah, like, I think there needsto be a balance because, like,
(50:51):
certs aren't everything.
Like, somebody with only certsand no experience isn't useful
necessarily useful. They havesome context and understanding.
But somebody with, like, doingwhatever they want and no certs
is also, like, you know, theymaybe they know how the rubber
meets the road, but, like, hey.You know what? It's, it's just
(51:12):
good to have some of thatindustry, you know, standard
sort of stuff to lock in.
I mean, that's, like, a takeawayfor me. Like, I wanna grow my
learning, but the learning thatI'm trying to do is, like, kind
of stuff they don't really havecerts for. They have some, like,
integrations stuff for certs.That's one I wanna take, because
it's probably gonna push meoutside of what I know. And,
(51:35):
like, keep me close to thecorrect trajectory.
But other certs I should renewbecause because it's good.
George B. Thomas (51:44):
Yeah. It's good.
Chad Hohn (51:45):
So that's that's one thing I wanna do and I need to
do.
George B. Thomas (51:48):
Love it. So my big takeaway is this. It's a new
year. It's a new you. Focus onthe the strategies and the
growth and the goals that youneed to be focused on.
Figure out how HubSpot actuallyplays in this world of process,
people, and platform. And I'mgonna go back to something that
Max has kinda been dipping inthe entire time. It's all about
(52:10):
the Humans. Focus on yourinternal humans, external
humans, yourself as a human, andhow can you just have the best
year ever and flourish? Becausethat's what we here at the Hub
Heroes podcast hope for you isthat 2025 is a year of
flourishing.
Okay, Hub Heroes. We've reachedthe end of another episode. Will
(52:33):
Lord Lack continue to loom overthe community, or will we be
able to defeat him in the nextepisode of the Hub Heroes
podcast? Make sure you tune inand find out in the next
episode. Make sure you head overto the hubheroes.com to get the
latest episodes and become partof the league of heroes.
FYI, if you're part of theleague of heroes, you'll get the
(52:56):
show notes right in your inbox,and they come with some hidden
power up potential as well. Makesure you share this podcast with
a friend. Leave a review if youlike what you're listening to,
and use the hashtag, hashtag hubeuros podcast on any of the
socials, and let us know whatstrategy conversation you'd like
to listen into next. Until nexttime, when we meet and combine
(53:18):
our forces, remember to be ahappy, helpful, humble human.
And, of course, always belooking for a way to be
someone's hero.
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