October 28, 2020 • 40 mins
13 sins of the unICONIC: The Sequel
Episode #8
Toxic work cultures make going to work feel miserable. New ideas can’t flourish, people can’t be honest, micro-management thrives, and leaders are given power that go to their heads and fuel their egos. In our last podcast, John and Calvin talked about how to build an ICONIC culture that stands the test of time.
As a good follow-up (or sequel), this episode provides listeners with a list of 13 telltale signs that your company culture is moving in the wrong direction – and then provide practical solutions to fix them.
- 0:02:03 - Intro: Toxic Work Environments
- 0:04:37 - Sin #13: Absence of accountability
- 0:06:26 - Sin #12: Value for the company over core values
- 0:09:10 - Sin #11: Lack of investment in people
- 0:11:27 - Sin #10: Rotating door policy, high turnover, excessive absenteeism, illness
- 0:13:12 - Sin #9: Preferential treatment; favoritism and office politics
- 0:15:39 - Sin #8: Productivity is driven by fear
- 0:17:25 - Sin #7: Management vs. The Us Culture
- 0:20:56 - Sin #6: Employees have no latitude in performing their jobs
- 0:24:58 - Sin #5: Power (title and status) over Purpose (contribution to the mission)
- 0:27:20 - Sin #4: Lack of diversity and inclusion
- 0:29:39 - Sin #3: There is no community or team spirit
- 0:32:43 - Sin #2: Employees aren’t appreciated, adequately acknowledged or rewarded
- 0:33:51 - Sin #1: There are no core values, purpose is unclear or there's no purpose at all
- 0:37:10 - ICONIC Points
To learn more about John Avola and Calvin Stovall, visit iconicpresentations.net. All The ICONIC Mindset episodes can be downloaded at theiconicmindset.com. If you enjoyed listening to this episode, please subscribe to our show. Remember to select a star rating and/or write a review for The ICONIC Mindset podcast.
Connect with us!
- John Avola: @johnavola (Twitter) and LinkedIn
- Calvin Stovall: @ICONICspeaker (Twitter), Facebook and LinkedIn
To leave a podcast review:
- Open your podcast app and search/navigate to The ICONIC Mindset
- Scroll to the subhead titled "Ratings & Reviews"
- Tap to give a rating and/or select "Write a Review"
- Once you've finished, select "Send" or "Save" (top-right corner)
Thank you for listening! We value our listeners and subscribers.
Don't just be, Be ICONIC!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Introduction (00:07):
Welcome to the iconic mindset podcast with John
Avola and Calvin Stovall.
This is the only place thatuncovers the multiple levels of
iconic businesses and brands.
Every episode reveals thesecrets behind what it takes to
make your business, idea, ormovement iconic.
(00:27):
Now, here are John and Calvin.
John Avola (00:34):
Hey Calvin.
Calvin Stovall (00:35):
Hey John.
What's going on, man.
Great to be back.
John Avola (00:39):
Calvin, always a pleasure.
I'm excited about today.
How are you?
Calvin Stovall (00:43):
I'm doing fantastic.
Couldn't be better.
I'm feeling iconic today.
John Avola (00:47):
Everything's going good?
Calvin Stovall (00:48):
Everything's going fantastic.
Can't complain at all.
How about you?
John Avola (00:52):
I'm excited to be here with you today.
Now you remember in our previousepisode, we shared how to build
an iconic structure that standsthe test of time.
And we connected the strategyinto the iconic framework.
But as a quick refresher (01:07):
own it, live it, love it.
We talked about owning it, whichis defining your culture,
communicating and ingraining thecompany's core values into every
employee.
We talked about living it, showand demonstrate it.
Remember, walk the walk, talkthe talk?
Defend it and stand up for yourculture.
(01:28):
And third was love it.
Experience it, celebrate it.
Let your culture evolve, grow,and aspire.
It was awesome.
But coming out of that, you andI had a discussion, which led us
to today.
Calvin Stovall (01:41):
Yes, which led us to today.
I'm going to let our listenersknow.
Actually we were going to talkabout something else.
Remember we were going to go ina different direction, but as we
talked, we thought as a goodfollow-up or what we want to
call a sequel, we thought itwould be awesome to provide our
(02:03):
listeners with the list oftelltale signs that your company
culture is moving in the wrongdirection.
And we're not just going to dothat.
We're then going to providesolutions to fix them.
So in the spirit of Halloween,we have 13.
Yes.
I said 13 sins of the un-iconicto share with you.
John Avola (02:22):
13.
Ok!
Calvin Stovall (02:26):
So basically we're going to be talking about
toxic work cultures.
Toxic work cultures make goingto work feel miserable, right?
We do know that.
New ideas can't thrive.
People can't be honest.
Leaders are given power that cango to their heads and fuel their
egos.
(02:47):
And have you ever been to one ofthose company town halls or all
hands meetings when the leadersask questions and then it's like
dead silence.
Crickets.
One of the biggest concerns forany organization should be when
their most passionate peoplebecome quiet.
If your high- performers lookdisengaged or they show little
enthusiasm, that's going to be ared flag that your organization
(03:08):
is toxic.
If micromanagement thrives andthere's no trust in your
organization, you are swimmingin the cesspool of toxicity.
John Avola (03:18):
A place that you don't want to be, right?
No one wants to be there.
Calvin Stovall (03:25):
There's a thing, John, because of social media,
it's easy for potential clientsto get a peek into what's really
going on within your company.
Anonymous company reviewplatforms like Glass Door, they
increase the visibility intoyour company's culture.
If you have a positive workculture, full of highly engaged
employees, this helps in yourrecruiting efforts.
However, if your team isfrustrated, there is cutthroat
(03:48):
competition between peers, oryou have high turnover, job
seekers are going to be thefirst to know and your company
will earn that un-iconicreputation.
Now I want to let our audienceknow, although we're counting
these down from 13 to 1 fordramatic purposes, as a leader,
I want you to pay attention toall of these equally because
(04:10):
they're all signs of a toxicculture.
Meaning signs of toxicity existwithin your company.
And it's only going to worsenthem if they're not immediately
addressed.
So please, as we go through thislist, know all of them can
really impact your organization.
We're going to do something alittle different this podcast
though.
John and I, we're going toalternate sharing a sin and then
(04:30):
a solution.
We thought it would be a littlefun to do it this way.
This is going to be iconic forsure.
Okay, John, let's go.
Give me the first, the 13th sin.
John Avola (04:39):
Here we go.
Sin Number 13.
Absence of accountability.
Calvin Stovall (04:44):
There may be nothing more frustrating in the
workplace than when poorperformers, or what we'd like to
call cultural offenders, aren'theld accountable.
A lack of accountabilityencourages employees to not
bother reporting when incidencesdo happen and it makes them
careless about engaging in themthemselves.
(05:04):
I just believe employees aregoing to take cues from those at
the top, both good and bad.
I always say this in mykeynotes, people mirror and they
emulate what they see, right?
Employees look to their managersfor direction.
If senior and middle managementaren't abiding by your core
values you've set forth,employees are going to follow
suit.
Even worse, they'll begin todistrust leadership for letting
(05:30):
managers get away with violatingthe rules.
When you sense this sentimentfrom the top, look out below.
There's a saying that says afish rots from the head down.
So let's talk about how you fixsomething like this.
Very simple.
Lead by example.
And hold everyone accountableregardless of their role in the
(05:52):
organization.
Everybody has to be accountable.
Core values are important toyour culture and your success as
an organization.
So ensure they are upheld byevery member of the team.
Because if you hold everybodyaccountable, regardless of your
role, to the same set ofstandards, you'll foster an open
(06:13):
culture based on equality.
And this will also promote yourcore values across all
departments so that they becomeingrained in your culture.
Simple as that.
Lead by example.
Sin number 12.
Value for the company over corevalues.
Basically, John, policies overpeople.
John Avola (06:34):
I think this ties in a little bit to what you were
just saying aroundaccountability, right?
It's when you're placing companyvalue over core values, simply
un-iconic.
You're saying one thing, you'redoing another.
You're not leading by example,that's what you just went
through.
Good example would be, let's sayone of your core values is
sustainability, but let's sayeven though it's a core value,
(06:57):
you decide let's avoid thesediscussions.
Let's not necessarily invest ina recycling program and you're
putting your core values behind.
Another example would be acommitment to giving back, if
that's a core value of yours, orhelping those that are less
fortunate, yet you don'tencourage employees to take time
to volunteer or set up a programto help those in need, you're
(07:20):
going against the core valuesthat you've put in place.
The easy solution here reallyties back to accountability.
It's following through with whatyou're saying.
If you create the core value youwon't stand by, then don't
create the core value.
If one of your core values is togive back, start a committee to
(07:42):
help coordinating volunteerevents.
Promote charitable giving.
Select the charity of choice.
Look at a corporate matchprogram.
There's so much you can do basedon the core values that you've
identified, but you've got tohave the core values that make
sense to your team.
Looking at placing policies overpeople, another un-iconic move.
There's no question thatpolicies are important.
(08:02):
They're established to maintainthe environment.
However, if you're puttingpolicies ahead of people, it can
lead to a toxic culture.
We're all human.
We all make mistakes.
Even your best employees aregoing to fumble.
A number one running back'sgoing to drop the ball.
It's okay.
If your management is a hundredpercent by the book where
there's no exceptions, everyrule is followed to the T, every
(08:28):
infraction is placed, you'regoing to have a stressful
environment and you're going tolead employees to almost being
afraid to make mistakes, right?
If you've got a boss that's bythe book, you're going to be
very timid in your workenvironment to do anything
wrong.
So my thought here as asolution, be human and use good
(08:50):
judgment.
Coach your management team onhow to place emphasis on
policies while showing empathyand understanding, depending on
the situation.
No need to get into exampleshere, but let's just agree.
We're confident that ouraudience is following what we're
saying here, right?
Judgment, ethics, be human,which leads right into sin
(09:10):
number 11.
Lack of investment in people.
Calvin Stovall (09:16):
No good is going to come from this.
Damage can range from anuntrained workforce that drags
down output productivity andoverall results.
Now you know, I'm huge aboutlearning and development.
This was one that was near anddear to my heart.
I'm going to tell my listeners,please, providing employees with
(09:37):
the essential learning anddevelopment opportunities is
critical because it not onlybuilds capable, competent
employees, but research showsthat L and D is a key driver of
engagement.
Training and development iscritical to ensure that your
employees are continuallygrowing and delivering the level
of service to your internal andexternal customers that is
(10:01):
exceeding their expectations.
There was a study done that 80%of surveyed employees said that
learning and developmentopportunities would help them
feel more engaged at work.
This is a gargantuan one.
You cannot succeed without ateam of engaged employees.
It's just not going to happen.
So you must invest in online andoffline training and development
(10:24):
programs for your employees.
And I want to say this becausesometimes organizations only
focus on creating programs formid level and senior level
management, but you can't dothat.
You have to make sure thatyou're also including your line
level team members.
Essential.
And I know times are hard rightnow, John.
(10:47):
And some people right now arecounting every single penny.
And there's some CFO out thereright now, saying to his CEO,
I'm concerned about theseexpenses.
You want me to do all thistraining?
You want me to spend all thismoney?
And then what if we train thesepeople and they leave?
I want the CEO to turn aroundand say to that CFO, what if we
(11:10):
don't train them?
And they stay?
John Avola (11:13):
That's right.
Yes.
What is we don't train them andthey stay?
We've got a problem.
Calvin Stovall (11:25):
Yes.
Okay.
I'm going to sin number 10,John.
Rotating door policy.
You have high turnover,excessive absenteeism, and
people are always sick.
John Avola (11:36):
Let's just break this one down a little bit.
So starting with high turnover.
If you're seeing any signs ofthese examples, high turnover,
excessive absenteeism, illness,excessive tardiness, you've got
to find the root of the problem.
What is going on here?
You've got to understand whataspects of the company culture
have forced people to leave.
Address some common themes.
(11:58):
Take the time to, especiallyduring exit interviews, work
toward creating a action plan tohelp fix these areas.
Another option is to, instead ofbeing reactive and waiting for
the employee to leave and thenasking them what's going on, a
proactive approach may be aroundan employee survey.
If you're going to survey, andwe've talked about this before,
(12:18):
you need to define the plan andtake action on it.
Calvin Stovall (12:22):
Yes, yes.
John Avola (12:25):
If you're going to take the time to survey, you've
got to come back with someresults.
We look at excessive tardiness,absenteeism, illness.
That can also be a number ofthings.
There could be somedisengagement going on, there
could be some issues around nolonger being passionate about
their work.
It could be a none of the above,then maybe your employees are
dealing with a personal matter.
(12:47):
The reoccurrence of severalemployees.
Start by making sure thatmanagement team is arriving on
time.
Look at your management.
If your management team isconstantly late, your employees
are going to be constantly late.
You started that at sin number13.
It's following by example,right?
If your manager is always late,employees are going to be late.
Remind the management team, takeaccountability, lead by example.
(13:09):
Calvin, sin number 9.
Preferential treatment,favoritism, and office politics.
Calvin Stovall (13:20):
Wow.
In between those formal layersof hierarchy, there are these
sticky, soft little areas calledpreferential treatment.
These are people that are given,I'm sure everybody knows what
they are, but I want to give aformal definition.
These are people that are givenextra privileges for either
(13:42):
enforcing the leadership's toxicculture.
And so they talk behind people'sbacks in order to gain
something.
Instead of being a part of thesolution, they make the problem
bigger or a mountain out of amolehill, as my mama used to
say.
And they are sometimes rewardedfor it.
How to fix something like thisat its core essence?
We all know that favoritism isunprofessional behavior.
(14:06):
It is.
So a first step to avoiding itis to foster and promote
professionalism in yourorganization.
They say the best offense is agood defense.
Defend your company frompotential favoritism, by
creating a professionalenvironment that actively
discourages any, and I'm goingto say any, kind of unfair
treatment.
(14:28):
And if you're a leader andyou're seeing this exist, you've
got to get to the bottom of it.
If you discover that favoritismis taking place in your company,
the most important thing is tomake sure it stops.
You have to stop it.
You have to say something.
I know it can be a delicatesituation to have to confront,
(14:50):
but the damage it poses is muchtoo great to be ignored.
It just is.
If someone comes forth with anaccusation of discrimination in
the workplace, you cannot ignoreit.
Again, as you mentioned, youcan't make assumptions, but you
have to gather the facts and youhave to get to the bottom of it.
And whether you're on the wrongside of your boss's special
(15:11):
selection process, or you're aleader who's guilty of playing
favorites yourself on the job,you need to do everything you
can do to equalize the workplaceculture.
Particularly now in thisenvironment, you're going to get
called out.
So, showing favoritism, itcontributes to a toxic workplace
culture and a hostile one aswell.
(15:32):
And every employee, everyone,has to do their part to improve
the environment for everyone.
Sin number 8.
Productivity is driven by fear,fear of the boss, fear of
speaking up in a meeting ordirectly to your boss, fear of
sharing new ideas, fear ofgetting in trouble.
John Avola (15:57):
This reminds me of your opening.
You're in that room.
And your boss has someridiculous plan that no one
agrees with.
And everyone is shaking theirheads and texting, or in a
virtual environment, theindividual private chats are
blowing up, right?
No one agrees but everyone says,okay, let's go forward.
(16:23):
So what do you do?
What do you do?
Well, first it starts with theculture.
If you've got a culture that hasbeen set up in a fear inducing
environment, that's the firstaction that needs to be taken
away.
You need to create anenvironment that allows
employees to have the ability toprovide open feedback where
(16:44):
they're not going to be lookedupon, or they're not going to be
worried about what they're goingto be saying, where they're
constantly able to provide theirtrue and honest feedback in an
environment that's receptive.
And that at the same time, theleadership hears and understands
their voice.
And to take that a step further,it's not just hearing the voice,
(17:06):
but it's acting upon thatindividual's voice.
And I'm sure it's a deadly sinand we're going to get to it
around employees and employeesfirst and listening to your
employees.
But it starts with negating thefear and allowing your employees
to openly speak and have thatopportunity to do so.
Sin number 7.
(17:28):
Management versus the usculture.
Let me explain.
Managers and employees are notseeing eye to eye.
Completely separate groups.
Calvin Stovall (17:42):
You mean like a situation where in those toxic
cultures where the frontlinestaff says things like
management needs to look atproblem X.
Leadership came up with thatpolicy.
In a non-toxic culture,management and staff, they're
one and people are accountable.
(18:05):
So sentences like"managementneeds to do" are not relevant
because staff can make decisionsand the two sides of the
business are one.
I like to say, all of us is oneof us.
So how do you fix it?
The less hierarchy, the morepeople feel included.
And that produces a thriving,collaborative culture.
(18:27):
Also, and I'm going to say thisfor all leaders, if you want
people to feel like you're allone, you have to get to know
your team.
And for larger companies, I knowthis could be a little bit
difficult.
And it's likely you won't knoweveryone's name, especially if
your team is growing rapidly orwhatever.
(18:49):
However, if you don't evenrecognize some of the people
walking around the office youwork in, you probably aren't
interacting with your staff oryour peers enough.
And that's clear, you'recontributing to the toxicity of
this area.
John Avola (19:07):
Take a moment.
Calvin Stovall (19:08):
Take a moment.
But this really leads to adisjointed culture where
employees feel more like they'recogs in a wheel than valued
individuals.
So I want to encourage you outthere, make a point to engage
with your team regularly.
Now I have to admit one of thepluses of the pandemic is that
because of all the zoom meetingsand such, and we've talked about
this before, a lot of managershave been forced to build better
(19:30):
relationships with their directreports.
You're in people's living roomsnow.
John Avola (19:33):
Yeah, literally.
Calvin Stovall (19:33):
The dog is barking.
The kid runs through the camera.
You've got grandma coming,walking around in the back.
You have so much stuff going on,but it helps form a
relationship.
I think we've been forced to beable to build relationships with
(19:57):
our team members.
So forming a relationship withyour employees is going to help
your team.
Your leadership is friendly andmore approachable, which
encourages two waycommunication.
And it'll actually make it looklike we're all one.
So, I think you mentioned, beauthentic, show some humility,
some transparency, anddemonstrate some empathy, and
(20:18):
these are all super importantleadership skills, particularly
during these times.
We've talked about before, thoseskills I just mentioned, they
were kind of looked down upon asa leader, but not now.
All the emotional intelligence tips, this is the time.
Learn them because they'relearned skills.
Get involved.
Wholesome lunch and learns.
You can get involved in somework happy hours, virtually
(20:41):
chime in on email threads whenyou can.
You can also implement monthly,biweekly, or quarterly all hands
on meetings.
Basically you want to increasethe transparency between
leadership and staff.
That's the solution.
Sin number 6.
Employees have no latitude inperforming their jobs.
John Avola (21:01):
This just makes me not want to work.
No latitude.
You can't make decisions.
You're probably faced with amicromanager.
This is the situation whereevery procedure is spelled out.
You're constantly being toldwhat to do, how to do it.
(21:24):
I had a manager...
Calvin Stovall (21:26):
Oh, here we go.
Love stories!
John Avola (21:29):
This was years ago.
But still in the digital age.
I have to preference thatbecause my manager made me print
every, every, email before Isent it.
Then he would edit with a redpen, as I sat in his chair.
(21:50):
Then I went back to my computer,made the edits, and hit send.
It took me an hour to send athank you note.
Calvin Stovall (22:00):
Wow.
That was micro management at awhole'nother level.
John Avola (22:07):
We're not talking 1980.
We're talking like 2010.
Calvin Stovall (22:14):
That's un-iconic at a whole'nother level.
John Avola (22:17):
Anyhow.
Before I digress any further,you've got to give employees the
opportunity to be flexiblewithin their work.
Encourage setting aside time forinnovation, be open to job
shadowing, cross departmentaltraining.
We've found, and we've seen itand we've talked about it, new
ideas and innovation have atremendous benefit on the
(22:38):
organization.
Solving problems, easilycreating solutions, and
increasing productivity, acombination of ideas among
employees and other people thatyou're working with.
You're beating the competition,staying one step ahead of the
curve, finding better ways toconnect to your customers.
Your top performing employeesneed to have some latitude to
(23:00):
make decisions, right?
Even at the most granular level,give those folks the opportunity
to drive business forward.
I came across this survey that Ithought was relevant to this
sin.
In a recent survey, it was anemployee satisfaction and job
engagement survey done by theSociety for Human Resource
(23:21):
Management.
They found that 47% of employeesfeel that autonomy and
independence contribute greatlyto job satisfaction.
There's a connection betweenlatitude and satisfaction.
So what can you do?
Hire talent and character.
(23:41):
Would you want to hire the guythat has the skills or someone
that you can trust with theability to learn new skills?
Define your objectives clearly.
Let your employees know exactlywhat you need from them, what
the expectation is, and what thedeliverable is at the outcome of
the project.
Training.
(24:04):
Training builds confidence tomake difficult decisions.
We've talked about this as well.
Great companies have relentlesstraining programs.
Look at Disney.
Both of us, former Disneyemployees.
Look at the hospitalityindustry, all the different
brands that require employees togo through relentless hours of
training before they enter thefloor.
(24:27):
I want to pause there becauseCalvin, I know you've probably
got some input.
Calvin Stovall (24:30):
I'm not going to add much to it, John.
I think you've covered it reallywell.
But I think the word we want tothrow out there is autonomy.
You have to give your employeesthe autonomy to do their jobs.
Why hire someone to do aspecific job and then tell them
how to do it.
Why don't you just do ityourself?
John Avola (24:48):
That's right.
Why did you even waste the timeinterviewing?
We've hit a big point here.
We're entering the top five.
Calvin Stovall (24:57):
Let's go.
Drum roll.
John Avola (24:57):
Sin number 5.
Power, meaning title and status,over purpose, contribution to
the mission.
Calvin Stovall (25:06):
Another sign of a toxic workplace is that people
are very concerned about theirtitles, job descriptions, and
levels in the hierarchy.
When you walk up to somebody inan organization, and the first
thing they say is, my name isAndrew Boston, and I am the vice
president of the organizational,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
(25:29):
blah, and here's my office, it'sa problem.
So how to fix it?
In my experience, John peoplethat are like this usually lack
confidence.
They use status titles, perks,to hide behind them or make
themselves look good or feelbetter.
(25:49):
And here's the deal.
Your position doesn'tnecessarily mean you're a good
leader or you've earned therespect of your team.
Gaining and keeping the respectof your direct reports, it's not
as easy as singingR-E-S-P-E-C-T.
It's not that easy, singingAretha Franklin.
(26:10):
You have to prove that you'reworthy, especially if you were
recently promoted to aleadership position.
And I think it really comes downto what kind of leader you want
to be.
Do you want to be the kind ofleader that has to use your
title and throw all this stuffout to get what you need out of
people?
(26:32):
Because I really believe titlesand perks are fleeting.
They come and go, but respectand reputation done right will
follow you for a lifetime.
We've talked about reputationbefore and how critical it is.
And I believe a person likethis, they need to really
understand that he or she, theyhave the wrong mindset about
(26:52):
leadership and what to focus on.
So to fix it, I would suggesthaving continuous one-on-ones
because I believe this is abehavior.
So one conversation may not doit.
It may take continuousone-on-ones with the employee
about putting more emphasis onleading and serving others and
focusing on their contributionto the organization and the
(27:15):
value they bring, as opposed tothe titles and perks that they
have.
Big one for you.
Sin number 4.
Lack of diversity and inclusion.
John Avola (27:24):
Timing is everything right?
I'm glad you've read this oneout to me here.
It's definitely near and dear tomy heart.
And we mentioned in the lastpodcast, it is something I'm
working on.
Let me start by asking aquestion.
What's a company withoutdiversity and inclusion?
(27:44):
My first thought is a line ofrobots, right?
In an assembly line, coming out,looking the same, carbon copies,
one after another, afteranother, after another.
Hiring for cultural fit isoutdated and it's going to cost
you top talent.
So why is diversity andinclusion important?
(28:08):
Having a team of diversebackgrounds opens the
opportunity for newpossibilities and ideas.
Each person brings a uniqueperspective or experience to the
team and every person encouragessomeone else to be respected and
feel welcome within theorganization.
Every person has to have auniversal, open, genuine
(28:29):
responsibility to make everyonefeel as though they belong.
Remember I mentioned no longerhire for a cultural fit?
It's now a cultural add.
These are individuals who shareyour core values and are
passionate about your mission,but are from various
(28:50):
backgrounds.
A solution here is considerplacing more emphasis on
internal teams to fosterdiversity and inclusion, create
internal committees, celebratedifferent cultures, provide
educational opportunities.
We're actually launching adiversity and inclusion book
club.
Every month we're reading adifferent book on whether it's
(29:12):
race, microaggressions,providing those educational
opportunities like I mentioned.
Coordinating guest speakers,hosting those virtual happy
hours, getting people to learnfrom one another, anything that
would help people feel as thoughthey belong.
Calvin Stovall (29:28):
Put an exclamation point at the end of
that.
That is good.
Very good.
Wrap-up on that one.
That's sin number 4.
John Avola (29:36):
Okay.
Top three, Calvin.
Sin number 3.
There is no community or teamspirit in the organization.
Calvin Stovall (29:46):
No team spirit.
No we are family?
John Avola (29:49):
No cheering for each other?
Calvin Stovall (29:54):
Wow.
It wasn't cool in middle school.
And it certainly isn'tappropriate in the office.
Gossip.
Gossip leads to unwanted cliquesand divides your workforce,
turning employees against eachother and creating a culture of
distrust.
Remember that song, I heard itthrough the grapevine?
(30:15):
Not much longer would you bemine, Oh, I heard it through the
grapevine.
Oh, I'm just about to lose mymind.
Remember that song?
That's the gossip.
That's the grapevine.
John Avola (30:30):
Awesome.
That was great.
Calvin Stovall (30:36):
That's when you know you don't even have to use
your communication through email.
The grapevine will do it foryou.
That's gossip.
If you're noticing that therumor mill is churning more
often than not, address thesituation, head on.
Again, say something.
Try to identify the individualswho seem to be involved because
(30:57):
it's usually the same people allthe time.
It is.
And you've got to have aconversation with them.
Speak to them one-on-one andthen you should also formally
address the entire organizationso every employee knows that
this kind of behavior is notgoing to be tolerated.
You have to kill the rumor millwhen it happens.
Start recognizing performance ona broader scale and outside of
(31:22):
the confines of monetaryrewards.
We talked about money is reallynot a huge one, of course, we
all want to make money, butthat's not really what motivates
people.
So we want to encourage managersto recognize your direct
reports' efforts, and rewardtheir achievements with
different prizes.
You can come up with differentways.
(31:42):
You can help them with a senseof thanks, giving things
centered on wellness, you cangive people comp fitness
classes, gift cards to afavorite restaurant.
You can give them an extra dayoff.
You just want to kind of focusthem a little bit away from just
this competitive craziness onmoney.
And additionally create aplatform for individuals to
(32:05):
congratulate and thank theircoworkers for a job well done.
You can come up with a programinternally that does that.
And, this is going to motivateyour employees and encourage a
team oriented mindset.
So again, you want to try tobuild this, we're all in this
together kind of mentality.
You're all trying to accomplishthe same goal.
(32:28):
So that's the key.
That's how you fix that.
Last two.
Sin number 2.
Employees aren't appreciated,adequately acknowledged, or
rewarded.
John Avola (32:41):
Calvin.
I've got one word.
And it's one of the four Ps oficonicity.
People.
And then I'm going to use aquote and I don't even know if
you remember saying this.
So I'm going to quote it back toyou.
Not expressing gratitude orappreciation for others is the
same as making them disappear.
(33:03):
Nothing great is ever going tobe achieved unless people feel
appreciated.
Calvin said that!
Calvin Stovall (33:11):
I said that.
I remember saying that!
John Avola (33:15):
If your team feels cared for and valued, it will
lead to a better customerexperience.
Take the time to recognize teammember contributions at all
levels of the organizationduring team meetings, or it
could be company-wide townhalls.
Allow employees to recognizeother employees.
(33:36):
Positive reinforcement works.
We just talked about that in thesin number 3.
Always keep in mind that youremployees are the backbone of
your company.
Sin number 1.
You ready?
Wrap it up right here.
(33:57):
The number 1 un-iconic sin.
You don't have a list of corevalues, purpose is unclear, or
no purpose at all.
Calvin Stovall (34:14):
This is the biggest violation of the iconic
framework.
First quadrant.
Be unique.
Purpose.
Blue diamonds.
You don't have any of thosethings.
And I like to use this quote.
If you don't know where you'regoing, any road will get you
there, or you might wind upsomeplace else.
(34:36):
And that's the bottom line.
Perhaps the most concerning signof a bad company culture is a
lack of company core values, oryou don't have a purpose that
people rally around becausethese are the driving forces of
an organization.
Not having core values meansyour culture is likely to
progress without any sense ofdirection.
(34:59):
And what's going to even beworse, these little unwanted
subcultures will form andundermine your success.
So how do you fix it?
Define your purpose.
Draft and publish a list of corevalues.
Now, these should be a set ofvalues that truly matter to your
(35:21):
team and will help you achieveyour goals.
And create a purpose aroundthem.
You want to make sure people areexcited and they rally around
these things.
And before you promote thesevalues to the rest of your team,
you want to make sure that thatthe C suite, all of the top
executives, they have to bebehind it first, because if
they're not living it and lovingit, it's not going to work.
(35:44):
They have to believe in it firstand then make sure your HR folks
are on and all of your learnlong-term employees are aligned
on these values and the purpose.
Then go over each value with therest of the team.
You've got to have everybody atthe top excited about it first
because they're going to beresponsible for walking the
talk, as we always say.
Once you get the team on board,doing this is going to help
(36:07):
elicit positive behaviors andattitudes, and that's going to
permeate throughout theorganization and create that
cohesive culture that you'retrying to accomplish.
And then when you write thosecore values, they shouldn't just
be somewhere on the wall.
You want to continue to referback to them during your hiring
process, during your onboardingprocess, during your team
(36:28):
meetings, every time you get anopportunity to bring up your
core values and your purpose,you want to bring it out.
Wow, John, we did it.
Wow.
All 13!
John Avola (36:43):
13 sins of the un-iconic.
Calvin Stovall (36:46):
I just want to mention again to our listeners
that, even though we countedthem down from 13 to one, we
still want to make sure that youunderstand that all of them are
important.
If you're saying even one to twoof these sins are starting to
creep into your organization,you want to address it quick.
(37:08):
I want to just go ahead and do afinal thought and we can wrap
this up.
So, as I always say, yourculture is the soul of
everything your company does.
We know that your culture isyour brand.
The two aren't mutuallyexclusive.
They belong together and toxiccultures can put some financial
(37:31):
hurt on you if it is the wrongculture.
Your share prices can drop.
The profits can plummet.
And instead of focusing on yourspreadsheets and accountants for
your answers, look at yourpeople.
Your people are what causesprofits to go up and down.
It's all about people.
You just said that.
It's all about your people.
So the thing about culture,though, is that you have to
continually work on it.
(37:52):
All the time.
You continually defend it, butyou always have to work on it.
Your company culture isn't a oneand done deal.
Even after we address these 13signs of bad culture, if they
crop up, you have to routinelycheck in with your organization
all the time.
(38:12):
We talked about the surveys,employee surveys, John.' All
that stuff is important.
You can gauge on whether yourcompany culture is strong.
If you have some pitfalls therethat you need to focus on, it
usually starts with youremployees engagement.
That's one of the biggest signsthat you can look at.
And remember it may not be easy,but your hard work will pay off
(38:37):
in the long run.
So don't underestimate the powerof your company culture.
I always say, culture eatsstrategy for breakfast, right?
I want you to become obsessedwith your culture.
It's your brand.
Focus on it.
John Avola (38:56):
Wow.
Calvin.
That was awesome.
Calvin Stovall (38:59):
That was fun.
I feel like I did a keynote! Andyou mentioned that you wanted to
talk about the next one.
John Avola (39:08):
The next one is, as Calvin started with, was going
to be this one.
The next episode, we are goingto focus on another quadrant of
the iconic framework, which isnever lose the beat.
And this is going to addresseverything we're living with
right now.
We're in a stressful time.
(39:29):
Holidays are approaching.
Traditions that have typicallybeen done over and over again
are now in jeopardy of beingbroken.
Parents are worried about kids.
Businesses are barely surviving.
Politics.
There's a lot going on.
And so what we want to do istalk to our audience about how
(39:50):
to live through a situation ofconstant uncertainty and tie
that directly back to neverlosing the beat and Calvin and I
are not going to let it happen.
So we're going to discuss waysto reinforce what matters most
and share techniques to help youalways remain curious.
Calvin Stovall (40:09):
Oh, I love it.
It sounds good.
I'm excited.
All right, John, I think that'sit.
It's time to wrap it up.
John Avola (40:17):
So for all our listeners out there, remember to
visit us aticonicpresentations.net.
You can find more about Calvinand me.
Listen more to the iconicpodcast.
And in the meantime, Calvin,don't just be.
B.
Welcome to the iconic mindset podcast with John
Avola and Calvin Stovall.
This is the only place thatuncovers the multiple levels of
iconic businesses and brands.
Every episode reveals thesecrets behind what it takes to
make your business, idea, ormovement iconic.
(00:27):
Now, here are John and Calvin.
John Avola (00:34):
Hey Calvin.
Calvin Stovall (00:35):
Hey John.
What's going on, man.
Great to be back.
John Avola (00:39):
Calvin, always a pleasure.
I'm excited about today.
How are you?
Calvin Stovall (00:43):
I'm doing fantastic.
Couldn't be better.
I'm feeling iconic today.
John Avola (00:47):
Everything's going good?
Calvin Stovall (00:48):
Everything's going fantastic.
Can't complain at all.
How about you?
John Avola (00:52):
I'm excited to be here with you today.
Now you remember in our previousepisode, we shared how to build
an iconic structure that standsthe test of time.
And we connected the strategyinto the iconic framework.
But as a quick refresher (01:07):
own it, live it, love it.
We talked about owning it, whichis defining your culture,
communicating and ingraining thecompany's core values into every
employee.
We talked about living it, showand demonstrate it.
Remember, walk the walk, talkthe talk?
Defend it and stand up for yourculture.
(01:28):
And third was love it.
Experience it, celebrate it.
Let your culture evolve, grow,and aspire.
It was awesome.
But coming out of that, you andI had a discussion, which led us
to today.
Calvin Stovall (01:41):
Yes, which led us to today.
I'm going to let our listenersknow.
Actually we were going to talkabout something else.
Remember we were going to go ina different direction, but as we
talked, we thought as a goodfollow-up or what we want to
call a sequel, we thought itwould be awesome to provide our
(02:03):
listeners with the list oftelltale signs that your company
culture is moving in the wrongdirection.
And we're not just going to dothat.
We're then going to providesolutions to fix them.
So in the spirit of Halloween,we have 13.
Yes.
I said 13 sins of the un-iconicto share with you.
John Avola (02:22):
13.
Ok!
Calvin Stovall (02:26):
So basically we're going to be talking about
toxic work cultures.
Toxic work cultures make goingto work feel miserable, right?
We do know that.
New ideas can't thrive.
People can't be honest.
Leaders are given power that cango to their heads and fuel their
egos.
(02:47):
And have you ever been to one ofthose company town halls or all
hands meetings when the leadersask questions and then it's like
dead silence.
Crickets.
One of the biggest concerns forany organization should be when
their most passionate peoplebecome quiet.
If your high- performers lookdisengaged or they show little
enthusiasm, that's going to be ared flag that your organization
(03:08):
is toxic.
If micromanagement thrives andthere's no trust in your
organization, you are swimmingin the cesspool of toxicity.
John Avola (03:18):
A place that you don't want to be, right?
No one wants to be there.
Calvin Stovall (03:25):
There's a thing, John, because of social media,
it's easy for potential clientsto get a peek into what's really
going on within your company.
Anonymous company reviewplatforms like Glass Door, they
increase the visibility intoyour company's culture.
If you have a positive workculture, full of highly engaged
employees, this helps in yourrecruiting efforts.
However, if your team isfrustrated, there is cutthroat
(03:48):
competition between peers, oryou have high turnover, job
seekers are going to be thefirst to know and your company
will earn that un-iconicreputation.
Now I want to let our audienceknow, although we're counting
these down from 13 to 1 fordramatic purposes, as a leader,
I want you to pay attention toall of these equally because
(04:10):
they're all signs of a toxicculture.
Meaning signs of toxicity existwithin your company.
And it's only going to worsenthem if they're not immediately
addressed.
So please, as we go through thislist, know all of them can
really impact your organization.
We're going to do something alittle different this podcast
though.
John and I, we're going toalternate sharing a sin and then
(04:30):
a solution.
We thought it would be a littlefun to do it this way.
This is going to be iconic forsure.
Okay, John, let's go.
Give me the first, the 13th sin.
John Avola (04:39):
Here we go.
Sin Number 13.
Absence of accountability.
Calvin Stovall (04:44):
There may be nothing more frustrating in the
workplace than when poorperformers, or what we'd like to
call cultural offenders, aren'theld accountable.
A lack of accountabilityencourages employees to not
bother reporting when incidencesdo happen and it makes them
careless about engaging in themthemselves.
(05:04):
I just believe employees aregoing to take cues from those at
the top, both good and bad.
I always say this in mykeynotes, people mirror and they
emulate what they see, right?
Employees look to their managersfor direction.
If senior and middle managementaren't abiding by your core
values you've set forth,employees are going to follow
suit.
Even worse, they'll begin todistrust leadership for letting
(05:30):
managers get away with violatingthe rules.
When you sense this sentimentfrom the top, look out below.
There's a saying that says afish rots from the head down.
So let's talk about how you fixsomething like this.
Very simple.
Lead by example.
And hold everyone accountableregardless of their role in the
(05:52):
organization.
Everybody has to be accountable.
Core values are important toyour culture and your success as
an organization.
So ensure they are upheld byevery member of the team.
Because if you hold everybodyaccountable, regardless of your
role, to the same set ofstandards, you'll foster an open
(06:13):
culture based on equality.
And this will also promote yourcore values across all
departments so that they becomeingrained in your culture.
Simple as that.
Lead by example.
Sin number 12.
Value for the company over corevalues.
Basically, John, policies overpeople.
John Avola (06:34):
I think this ties in a little bit to what you were
just saying aroundaccountability, right?
It's when you're placing companyvalue over core values, simply
un-iconic.
You're saying one thing, you'redoing another.
You're not leading by example,that's what you just went
through.
Good example would be, let's sayone of your core values is
sustainability, but let's sayeven though it's a core value,
(06:57):
you decide let's avoid thesediscussions.
Let's not necessarily invest ina recycling program and you're
putting your core values behind.
Another example would be acommitment to giving back, if
that's a core value of yours, orhelping those that are less
fortunate, yet you don'tencourage employees to take time
to volunteer or set up a programto help those in need, you're
(07:20):
going against the core valuesthat you've put in place.
The easy solution here reallyties back to accountability.
It's following through with whatyou're saying.
If you create the core value youwon't stand by, then don't
create the core value.
If one of your core values is togive back, start a committee to
(07:42):
help coordinating volunteerevents.
Promote charitable giving.
Select the charity of choice.
Look at a corporate matchprogram.
There's so much you can do basedon the core values that you've
identified, but you've got tohave the core values that make
sense to your team.
Looking at placing policies overpeople, another un-iconic move.
There's no question thatpolicies are important.
(08:02):
They're established to maintainthe environment.
However, if you're puttingpolicies ahead of people, it can
lead to a toxic culture.
We're all human.
We all make mistakes.
Even your best employees aregoing to fumble.
A number one running back'sgoing to drop the ball.
It's okay.
If your management is a hundredpercent by the book where
there's no exceptions, everyrule is followed to the T, every
(08:28):
infraction is placed, you'regoing to have a stressful
environment and you're going tolead employees to almost being
afraid to make mistakes, right?
If you've got a boss that's bythe book, you're going to be
very timid in your workenvironment to do anything
wrong.
So my thought here as asolution, be human and use good
(08:50):
judgment.
Coach your management team onhow to place emphasis on
policies while showing empathyand understanding, depending on
the situation.
No need to get into exampleshere, but let's just agree.
We're confident that ouraudience is following what we're
saying here, right?
Judgment, ethics, be human,which leads right into sin
(09:10):
number 11.
Lack of investment in people.
Calvin Stovall (09:16):
No good is going to come from this.
Damage can range from anuntrained workforce that drags
down output productivity andoverall results.
Now you know, I'm huge aboutlearning and development.
This was one that was near anddear to my heart.
I'm going to tell my listeners,please, providing employees with
(09:37):
the essential learning anddevelopment opportunities is
critical because it not onlybuilds capable, competent
employees, but research showsthat L and D is a key driver of
engagement.
Training and development iscritical to ensure that your
employees are continuallygrowing and delivering the level
of service to your internal andexternal customers that is
(10:01):
exceeding their expectations.
There was a study done that 80%of surveyed employees said that
learning and developmentopportunities would help them
feel more engaged at work.
This is a gargantuan one.
You cannot succeed without ateam of engaged employees.
It's just not going to happen.
So you must invest in online andoffline training and development
(10:24):
programs for your employees.
And I want to say this becausesometimes organizations only
focus on creating programs formid level and senior level
management, but you can't dothat.
You have to make sure thatyou're also including your line
level team members.
Essential.
And I know times are hard rightnow, John.
(10:47):
And some people right now arecounting every single penny.
And there's some CFO out thereright now, saying to his CEO,
I'm concerned about theseexpenses.
You want me to do all thistraining?
You want me to spend all thismoney?
And then what if we train thesepeople and they leave?
I want the CEO to turn aroundand say to that CFO, what if we
(11:10):
don't train them?
And they stay?
John Avola (11:13):
That's right.
Yes.
What is we don't train them andthey stay?
We've got a problem.
Calvin Stovall (11:25):
Yes.
Okay.
I'm going to sin number 10,John.
Rotating door policy.
You have high turnover,excessive absenteeism, and
people are always sick.
John Avola (11:36):
Let's just break this one down a little bit.
So starting with high turnover.
If you're seeing any signs ofthese examples, high turnover,
excessive absenteeism, illness,excessive tardiness, you've got
to find the root of the problem.
What is going on here?
You've got to understand whataspects of the company culture
have forced people to leave.
Address some common themes.
(11:58):
Take the time to, especiallyduring exit interviews, work
toward creating a action plan tohelp fix these areas.
Another option is to, instead ofbeing reactive and waiting for
the employee to leave and thenasking them what's going on, a
proactive approach may be aroundan employee survey.
If you're going to survey, andwe've talked about this before,
(12:18):
you need to define the plan andtake action on it.
Calvin Stovall (12:22):
Yes, yes.
John Avola (12:25):
If you're going to take the time to survey, you've
got to come back with someresults.
We look at excessive tardiness,absenteeism, illness.
That can also be a number ofthings.
There could be somedisengagement going on, there
could be some issues around nolonger being passionate about
their work.
It could be a none of the above,then maybe your employees are
dealing with a personal matter.
(12:47):
The reoccurrence of severalemployees.
Start by making sure thatmanagement team is arriving on
time.
Look at your management.
If your management team isconstantly late, your employees
are going to be constantly late.
You started that at sin number13.
It's following by example,right?
If your manager is always late,employees are going to be late.
Remind the management team, takeaccountability, lead by example.
(13:09):
Calvin, sin number 9.
Preferential treatment,favoritism, and office politics.
Calvin Stovall (13:20):
Wow.
In between those formal layersof hierarchy, there are these
sticky, soft little areas calledpreferential treatment.
These are people that are given,I'm sure everybody knows what
they are, but I want to give aformal definition.
These are people that are givenextra privileges for either
(13:42):
enforcing the leadership's toxicculture.
And so they talk behind people'sbacks in order to gain
something.
Instead of being a part of thesolution, they make the problem
bigger or a mountain out of amolehill, as my mama used to
say.
And they are sometimes rewardedfor it.
How to fix something like thisat its core essence?
We all know that favoritism isunprofessional behavior.
(14:06):
It is.
So a first step to avoiding itis to foster and promote
professionalism in yourorganization.
They say the best offense is agood defense.
Defend your company frompotential favoritism, by
creating a professionalenvironment that actively
discourages any, and I'm goingto say any, kind of unfair
treatment.
(14:28):
And if you're a leader andyou're seeing this exist, you've
got to get to the bottom of it.
If you discover that favoritismis taking place in your company,
the most important thing is tomake sure it stops.
You have to stop it.
You have to say something.
I know it can be a delicatesituation to have to confront,
(14:50):
but the damage it poses is muchtoo great to be ignored.
It just is.
If someone comes forth with anaccusation of discrimination in
the workplace, you cannot ignoreit.
Again, as you mentioned, youcan't make assumptions, but you
have to gather the facts and youhave to get to the bottom of it.
And whether you're on the wrongside of your boss's special
(15:11):
selection process, or you're aleader who's guilty of playing
favorites yourself on the job,you need to do everything you
can do to equalize the workplaceculture.
Particularly now in thisenvironment, you're going to get
called out.
So, showing favoritism, itcontributes to a toxic workplace
culture and a hostile one aswell.
(15:32):
And every employee, everyone,has to do their part to improve
the environment for everyone.
Sin number 8.
Productivity is driven by fear,fear of the boss, fear of
speaking up in a meeting ordirectly to your boss, fear of
sharing new ideas, fear ofgetting in trouble.
John Avola (15:57):
This reminds me of your opening.
You're in that room.
And your boss has someridiculous plan that no one
agrees with.
And everyone is shaking theirheads and texting, or in a
virtual environment, theindividual private chats are
blowing up, right?
No one agrees but everyone says,okay, let's go forward.
(16:23):
So what do you do?
What do you do?
Well, first it starts with theculture.
If you've got a culture that hasbeen set up in a fear inducing
environment, that's the firstaction that needs to be taken
away.
You need to create anenvironment that allows
employees to have the ability toprovide open feedback where
(16:44):
they're not going to be lookedupon, or they're not going to be
worried about what they're goingto be saying, where they're
constantly able to provide theirtrue and honest feedback in an
environment that's receptive.
And that at the same time, theleadership hears and understands
their voice.
And to take that a step further,it's not just hearing the voice,
(17:06):
but it's acting upon thatindividual's voice.
And I'm sure it's a deadly sinand we're going to get to it
around employees and employeesfirst and listening to your
employees.
But it starts with negating thefear and allowing your employees
to openly speak and have thatopportunity to do so.
Sin number 7.
(17:28):
Management versus the usculture.
Let me explain.
Managers and employees are notseeing eye to eye.
Completely separate groups.
Calvin Stovall (17:42):
You mean like a situation where in those toxic
cultures where the frontlinestaff says things like
management needs to look atproblem X.
Leadership came up with thatpolicy.
In a non-toxic culture,management and staff, they're
one and people are accountable.
(18:05):
So sentences like"managementneeds to do" are not relevant
because staff can make decisionsand the two sides of the
business are one.
I like to say, all of us is oneof us.
So how do you fix it?
The less hierarchy, the morepeople feel included.
And that produces a thriving,collaborative culture.
(18:27):
Also, and I'm going to say thisfor all leaders, if you want
people to feel like you're allone, you have to get to know
your team.
And for larger companies, I knowthis could be a little bit
difficult.
And it's likely you won't knoweveryone's name, especially if
your team is growing rapidly orwhatever.
(18:49):
However, if you don't evenrecognize some of the people
walking around the office youwork in, you probably aren't
interacting with your staff oryour peers enough.
And that's clear, you'recontributing to the toxicity of
this area.
John Avola (19:07):
Take a moment.
Calvin Stovall (19:08):
Take a moment.
But this really leads to adisjointed culture where
employees feel more like they'recogs in a wheel than valued
individuals.
So I want to encourage you outthere, make a point to engage
with your team regularly.
Now I have to admit one of thepluses of the pandemic is that
because of all the zoom meetingsand such, and we've talked about
this before, a lot of managershave been forced to build better
(19:30):
relationships with their directreports.
You're in people's living roomsnow.
John Avola (19:33):
Yeah, literally.
Calvin Stovall (19:33):
The dog is barking.
The kid runs through the camera.
You've got grandma coming,walking around in the back.
You have so much stuff going on,but it helps form a
relationship.
I think we've been forced to beable to build relationships with
(19:57):
our team members.
So forming a relationship withyour employees is going to help
your team.
Your leadership is friendly andmore approachable, which
encourages two waycommunication.
And it'll actually make it looklike we're all one.
So, I think you mentioned, beauthentic, show some humility,
some transparency, anddemonstrate some empathy, and
(20:18):
these are all super importantleadership skills, particularly
during these times.
We've talked about before, thoseskills I just mentioned, they
were kind of looked down upon asa leader, but not now.
All the emotional intelligence tips, this is the time.
Learn them because they'relearned skills.
Get involved.
Wholesome lunch and learns.
You can get involved in somework happy hours, virtually
(20:41):
chime in on email threads whenyou can.
You can also implement monthly,biweekly, or quarterly all hands
on meetings.
Basically you want to increasethe transparency between
leadership and staff.
That's the solution.
Sin number 6.
Employees have no latitude inperforming their jobs.
John Avola (21:01):
This just makes me not want to work.
No latitude.
You can't make decisions.
You're probably faced with amicromanager.
This is the situation whereevery procedure is spelled out.
You're constantly being toldwhat to do, how to do it.
(21:24):
I had a manager...
Calvin Stovall (21:26):
Oh, here we go.
Love stories!
John Avola (21:29):
This was years ago.
But still in the digital age.
I have to preference thatbecause my manager made me print
every, every, email before Isent it.
Then he would edit with a redpen, as I sat in his chair.
(21:50):
Then I went back to my computer,made the edits, and hit send.
It took me an hour to send athank you note.
Calvin Stovall (22:00):
Wow.
That was micro management at awhole'nother level.
John Avola (22:07):
We're not talking 1980.
We're talking like 2010.
Calvin Stovall (22:14):
That's un-iconic at a whole'nother level.
John Avola (22:17):
Anyhow.
Before I digress any further,you've got to give employees the
opportunity to be flexiblewithin their work.
Encourage setting aside time forinnovation, be open to job
shadowing, cross departmentaltraining.
We've found, and we've seen itand we've talked about it, new
ideas and innovation have atremendous benefit on the
(22:38):
organization.
Solving problems, easilycreating solutions, and
increasing productivity, acombination of ideas among
employees and other people thatyou're working with.
You're beating the competition,staying one step ahead of the
curve, finding better ways toconnect to your customers.
Your top performing employeesneed to have some latitude to
(23:00):
make decisions, right?
Even at the most granular level,give those folks the opportunity
to drive business forward.
I came across this survey that Ithought was relevant to this
sin.
In a recent survey, it was anemployee satisfaction and job
engagement survey done by theSociety for Human Resource
(23:21):
Management.
They found that 47% of employeesfeel that autonomy and
independence contribute greatlyto job satisfaction.
There's a connection betweenlatitude and satisfaction.
So what can you do?
Hire talent and character.
(23:41):
Would you want to hire the guythat has the skills or someone
that you can trust with theability to learn new skills?
Define your objectives clearly.
Let your employees know exactlywhat you need from them, what
the expectation is, and what thedeliverable is at the outcome of
the project.
Training.
(24:04):
Training builds confidence tomake difficult decisions.
We've talked about this as well.
Great companies have relentlesstraining programs.
Look at Disney.
Both of us, former Disneyemployees.
Look at the hospitalityindustry, all the different
brands that require employees togo through relentless hours of
training before they enter thefloor.
(24:27):
I want to pause there becauseCalvin, I know you've probably
got some input.
Calvin Stovall (24:30):
I'm not going to add much to it, John.
I think you've covered it reallywell.
But I think the word we want tothrow out there is autonomy.
You have to give your employeesthe autonomy to do their jobs.
Why hire someone to do aspecific job and then tell them
how to do it.
Why don't you just do ityourself?
John Avola (24:48):
That's right.
Why did you even waste the timeinterviewing?
We've hit a big point here.
We're entering the top five.
Calvin Stovall (24:57):
Let's go.
Drum roll.
John Avola (24:57):
Sin number 5.
Power, meaning title and status,over purpose, contribution to
the mission.
Calvin Stovall (25:06):
Another sign of a toxic workplace is that people
are very concerned about theirtitles, job descriptions, and
levels in the hierarchy.
When you walk up to somebody inan organization, and the first
thing they say is, my name isAndrew Boston, and I am the vice
president of the organizational,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
(25:29):
blah, and here's my office, it'sa problem.
So how to fix it?
In my experience, John peoplethat are like this usually lack
confidence.
They use status titles, perks,to hide behind them or make
themselves look good or feelbetter.
(25:49):
And here's the deal.
Your position doesn'tnecessarily mean you're a good
leader or you've earned therespect of your team.
Gaining and keeping the respectof your direct reports, it's not
as easy as singingR-E-S-P-E-C-T.
It's not that easy, singingAretha Franklin.
(26:10):
You have to prove that you'reworthy, especially if you were
recently promoted to aleadership position.
And I think it really comes downto what kind of leader you want
to be.
Do you want to be the kind ofleader that has to use your
title and throw all this stuffout to get what you need out of
people?
(26:32):
Because I really believe titlesand perks are fleeting.
They come and go, but respectand reputation done right will
follow you for a lifetime.
We've talked about reputationbefore and how critical it is.
And I believe a person likethis, they need to really
understand that he or she, theyhave the wrong mindset about
(26:52):
leadership and what to focus on.
So to fix it, I would suggesthaving continuous one-on-ones
because I believe this is abehavior.
So one conversation may not doit.
It may take continuousone-on-ones with the employee
about putting more emphasis onleading and serving others and
focusing on their contributionto the organization and the
(27:15):
value they bring, as opposed tothe titles and perks that they
have.
Big one for you.
Sin number 4.
Lack of diversity and inclusion.
John Avola (27:24):
Timing is everything right?
I'm glad you've read this oneout to me here.
It's definitely near and dear tomy heart.
And we mentioned in the lastpodcast, it is something I'm
working on.
Let me start by asking aquestion.
What's a company withoutdiversity and inclusion?
(27:44):
My first thought is a line ofrobots, right?
In an assembly line, coming out,looking the same, carbon copies,
one after another, afteranother, after another.
Hiring for cultural fit isoutdated and it's going to cost
you top talent.
So why is diversity andinclusion important?
(28:08):
Having a team of diversebackgrounds opens the
opportunity for newpossibilities and ideas.
Each person brings a uniqueperspective or experience to the
team and every person encouragessomeone else to be respected and
feel welcome within theorganization.
Every person has to have auniversal, open, genuine
(28:29):
responsibility to make everyonefeel as though they belong.
Remember I mentioned no longerhire for a cultural fit?
It's now a cultural add.
These are individuals who shareyour core values and are
passionate about your mission,but are from various
(28:50):
backgrounds.
A solution here is considerplacing more emphasis on
internal teams to fosterdiversity and inclusion, create
internal committees, celebratedifferent cultures, provide
educational opportunities.
We're actually launching adiversity and inclusion book
club.
Every month we're reading adifferent book on whether it's
(29:12):
race, microaggressions,providing those educational
opportunities like I mentioned.
Coordinating guest speakers,hosting those virtual happy
hours, getting people to learnfrom one another, anything that
would help people feel as thoughthey belong.
Calvin Stovall (29:28):
Put an exclamation point at the end of
that.
That is good.
Very good.
Wrap-up on that one.
That's sin number 4.
John Avola (29:36):
Okay.
Top three, Calvin.
Sin number 3.
There is no community or teamspirit in the organization.
Calvin Stovall (29:46):
No team spirit.
No we are family?
John Avola (29:49):
No cheering for each other?
Calvin Stovall (29:54):
Wow.
It wasn't cool in middle school.
And it certainly isn'tappropriate in the office.
Gossip.
Gossip leads to unwanted cliquesand divides your workforce,
turning employees against eachother and creating a culture of
distrust.
Remember that song, I heard itthrough the grapevine?
(30:15):
Not much longer would you bemine, Oh, I heard it through the
grapevine.
Oh, I'm just about to lose mymind.
Remember that song?
That's the gossip.
That's the grapevine.
John Avola (30:30):
Awesome.
That was great.
Calvin Stovall (30:36):
That's when you know you don't even have to use
your communication through email.
The grapevine will do it foryou.
That's gossip.
If you're noticing that therumor mill is churning more
often than not, address thesituation, head on.
Again, say something.
Try to identify the individualswho seem to be involved because
(30:57):
it's usually the same people allthe time.
It is.
And you've got to have aconversation with them.
Speak to them one-on-one andthen you should also formally
address the entire organizationso every employee knows that
this kind of behavior is notgoing to be tolerated.
You have to kill the rumor millwhen it happens.
Start recognizing performance ona broader scale and outside of
(31:22):
the confines of monetaryrewards.
We talked about money is reallynot a huge one, of course, we
all want to make money, butthat's not really what motivates
people.
So we want to encourage managersto recognize your direct
reports' efforts, and rewardtheir achievements with
different prizes.
You can come up with differentways.
(31:42):
You can help them with a senseof thanks, giving things
centered on wellness, you cangive people comp fitness
classes, gift cards to afavorite restaurant.
You can give them an extra dayoff.
You just want to kind of focusthem a little bit away from just
this competitive craziness onmoney.
And additionally create aplatform for individuals to
(32:05):
congratulate and thank theircoworkers for a job well done.
You can come up with a programinternally that does that.
And, this is going to motivateyour employees and encourage a
team oriented mindset.
So again, you want to try tobuild this, we're all in this
together kind of mentality.
You're all trying to accomplishthe same goal.
(32:28):
So that's the key.
That's how you fix that.
Last two.
Sin number 2.
Employees aren't appreciated,adequately acknowledged, or
rewarded.
John Avola (32:41):
Calvin.
I've got one word.
And it's one of the four Ps oficonicity.
People.
And then I'm going to use aquote and I don't even know if
you remember saying this.
So I'm going to quote it back toyou.
Not expressing gratitude orappreciation for others is the
same as making them disappear.
(33:03):
Nothing great is ever going tobe achieved unless people feel
appreciated.
Calvin said that!
Calvin Stovall (33:11):
I said that.
I remember saying that!
John Avola (33:15):
If your team feels cared for and valued, it will
lead to a better customerexperience.
Take the time to recognize teammember contributions at all
levels of the organizationduring team meetings, or it
could be company-wide townhalls.
Allow employees to recognizeother employees.
(33:36):
Positive reinforcement works.
We just talked about that in thesin number 3.
Always keep in mind that youremployees are the backbone of
your company.
Sin number 1.
You ready?
Wrap it up right here.
(33:57):
The number 1 un-iconic sin.
You don't have a list of corevalues, purpose is unclear, or
no purpose at all.
Calvin Stovall (34:14):
This is the biggest violation of the iconic
framework.
First quadrant.
Be unique.
Purpose.
Blue diamonds.
You don't have any of thosethings.
And I like to use this quote.
If you don't know where you'regoing, any road will get you
there, or you might wind upsomeplace else.
(34:36):
And that's the bottom line.
Perhaps the most concerning signof a bad company culture is a
lack of company core values, oryou don't have a purpose that
people rally around becausethese are the driving forces of
an organization.
Not having core values meansyour culture is likely to
progress without any sense ofdirection.
(34:59):
And what's going to even beworse, these little unwanted
subcultures will form andundermine your success.
So how do you fix it?
Define your purpose.
Draft and publish a list of corevalues.
Now, these should be a set ofvalues that truly matter to your
(35:21):
team and will help you achieveyour goals.
And create a purpose aroundthem.
You want to make sure people areexcited and they rally around
these things.
And before you promote thesevalues to the rest of your team,
you want to make sure that thatthe C suite, all of the top
executives, they have to bebehind it first, because if
they're not living it and lovingit, it's not going to work.
(35:44):
They have to believe in it firstand then make sure your HR folks
are on and all of your learnlong-term employees are aligned
on these values and the purpose.
Then go over each value with therest of the team.
You've got to have everybody atthe top excited about it first
because they're going to beresponsible for walking the
talk, as we always say.
Once you get the team on board,doing this is going to help
(36:07):
elicit positive behaviors andattitudes, and that's going to
permeate throughout theorganization and create that
cohesive culture that you'retrying to accomplish.
And then when you write thosecore values, they shouldn't just
be somewhere on the wall.
You want to continue to referback to them during your hiring
process, during your onboardingprocess, during your team
(36:28):
meetings, every time you get anopportunity to bring up your
core values and your purpose,you want to bring it out.
Wow, John, we did it.
Wow.
All 13!
John Avola (36:43):
13 sins of the un-iconic.
Calvin Stovall (36:46):
I just want to mention again to our listeners
that, even though we countedthem down from 13 to one, we
still want to make sure that youunderstand that all of them are
important.
If you're saying even one to twoof these sins are starting to
creep into your organization,you want to address it quick.
(37:08):
I want to just go ahead and do afinal thought and we can wrap
this up.
So, as I always say, yourculture is the soul of
everything your company does.
We know that your culture isyour brand.
The two aren't mutuallyexclusive.
They belong together and toxiccultures can put some financial
(37:31):
hurt on you if it is the wrongculture.
Your share prices can drop.
The profits can plummet.
And instead of focusing on yourspreadsheets and accountants for
your answers, look at yourpeople.
Your people are what causesprofits to go up and down.
It's all about people.
You just said that.
It's all about your people.
So the thing about culture,though, is that you have to
continually work on it.
(37:52):
All the time.
You continually defend it, butyou always have to work on it.
Your company culture isn't a oneand done deal.
Even after we address these 13signs of bad culture, if they
crop up, you have to routinelycheck in with your organization
all the time.
(38:12):
We talked about the surveys,employee surveys, John.' All
that stuff is important.
You can gauge on whether yourcompany culture is strong.
If you have some pitfalls therethat you need to focus on, it
usually starts with youremployees engagement.
That's one of the biggest signsthat you can look at.
And remember it may not be easy,but your hard work will pay off
(38:37):
in the long run.
So don't underestimate the powerof your company culture.
I always say, culture eatsstrategy for breakfast, right?
I want you to become obsessedwith your culture.
It's your brand.
Focus on it.
John Avola (38:56):
Wow.
Calvin.
That was awesome.
Calvin Stovall (38:59):
That was fun.
I feel like I did a keynote! Andyou mentioned that you wanted to
talk about the next one.
John Avola (39:08):
The next one is, as Calvin started with, was going
to be this one.
The next episode, we are goingto focus on another quadrant of
the iconic framework, which isnever lose the beat.
And this is going to addresseverything we're living with
right now.
We're in a stressful time.
(39:29):
Holidays are approaching.
Traditions that have typicallybeen done over and over again
are now in jeopardy of beingbroken.
Parents are worried about kids.
Businesses are barely surviving.
Politics.
There's a lot going on.
And so what we want to do istalk to our audience about how
(39:50):
to live through a situation ofconstant uncertainty and tie
that directly back to neverlosing the beat and Calvin and I
are not going to let it happen.
So we're going to discuss waysto reinforce what matters most
and share techniques to help youalways remain curious.
Calvin Stovall (40:09):
Oh, I love it.
It sounds good.
I'm excited.
All right, John, I think that'sit.
It's time to wrap it up.
John Avola (40:17):
So for all our listeners out there, remember to
visit us aticonicpresentations.net.
You can find more about Calvinand me.
Listen more to the iconicpodcast.
And in the meantime, Calvin,don't just be.
B.
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com