November 5, 2024 • 24 mins
If you’re going to build a business, you should love what you do. Once you build a foundation it’s time to scale the business. I discuss how to do that in this episode with my guest, Mary Kelly.
Mary started working for her dad’s business at trade shows when she was just seven years old. Her parents would leave her at their tradeshow booth to write orders while they worked the room to get more business. Mary took a hiatus from the business world for 25 years when she joined the navy and spent 17 of those years in Asia. During that time, she got experience leading teams that were both multi-cultural and multi-lingual. She learned how to manage people, assets, and supply chains.
Transitioning into the Private Sector
During her last tour in the Navy, Mary taught at the naval academy. The admiral was always being called to give talks about the status of the Navy, leadership, and other topics to government institutions and private sector businesses. One day the admiral was busy, and Mary’s friend called her and asked her to give a talk. That led to more talks. At one of those talks the organizer asked her to come back and train their people.
Mary was ready for the opportunity because the premises of what you’re managing doesn’t really change. It doesn’t matter if it’s Navy people or businesspeople. Managing and leading people is still managing and leading people. This is where people get hung up on “How do we lead Gen Z, or millennials, or boomers if they’re older or younger than us?” Mary believes that regardless of the demographic, people need great leadership. You don’t lead demographics, you lead individuals. Lead your people well and the rest will follow suit.
This belief has led to a very successful private sector speaking career for Mary.
The Biggest Lessons Learned
Number one, you must pay attention to your numbers, always pay attention to your numbers. Number two, realize and embrace that your people are your most important assets. You must make sure that people show up every day to serve you, the mission and the vision you’ve got in mind. The third thing is when you see a disruption there’s almost always more to it than what you think. Dig a little bit deeper than you initially want to, look at the surface problem and go “Ok, we’ve solved that, put a band-aid on it, everything is fine, NO. What Mary found is there’s almost always a deeper-rooted problem that needs a solution.
Many leaders are worried about making a mistake or going in the wrong direction, so they do nothing. Sometimes they stagnate or believe a decision they made a year ago is still a good decision today. In that case they’re not taking the current market conditions into consideration. You need to ask yourself what is the situation today and how has it changed since yesterday and how might it change tomorrow.
How to Start Building a Business and Do It Effectively
First you must figure out your vision and your mission. The next question to answer is why are you better at those than somebody else? You can be competitively better (you’re just better) or you can be comparatively better (and have a lower price point, or you’re more convenient, and so on). This means answering: Competitively and comparatively where are you better? Build your value proposition around that.
Then you build out your mission and figure out where you want to go. From there you create the action steps to get you there. When you cross the action steps, this is where Mary believes a lot of people get stuck, you must first say, “What’s going to be the biggest obstacle?” Sometimes, it’s your own friends and family. They’re going to say things like “You can’t start that business.” Those are not the people you don’t want to listen to.
Once you see those obstacles then you brainstorm on the solutions. If you don’t give your brain a place to go with the solutions, it’s going to focus on the obstacles. And you’re going to stop and make excuses like “I don’t...
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Idea Climbing podcast.
Today, I'm discussing how to build and scale
a business you love with my guest, Mary
Kelly. Mary is a hall of fame speaker
who started working in the family sales business
when she was just 10 years old. A
former Navy intelligence officer, Mary spent most of
her active duty time in Asia. We dive
into topics such as the benefits of asking
(00:21):
her advice on how to go about it
the right way, the four components of a
great value proposition and how to create one,
how to not just maintain, but scale success
once you've reached it, and more golden nuggets
of advice. You're gonna love this show.
(00:42):
Welcome again to the Idea Climbing podcast. Thank
you for being here, Mary. I really appreciate
you making the time.
Mark, this is a great day for business
people to think about how they're going to
build, plan, and implement business strategies.
We're gonna get into some strategies. Before we
do this, as far as building the building
and implementing the business you love,
(01:03):
how did you discover it? How did you
do it? What's your story?
I started working on my dad's business, working
trade shows since I was about 7 years
old. At 10, my parents would leave me
alone in a trade show booth to write
orders while they went around and did what
they needed to do. So I've been part
of a business since I was very small.
I took a small hiatus for about 25
(01:24):
years. I joined the navy. I got to
be in Asia for about 17 years of
that. Got to lead teams, multicultural,
multilingual,
all over Asia for about 17 years.
And in that time, I learned how to
manage people
and assets
and supply chains.
And then I started lessons you were learned?
(01:45):
Oh my goodness. You have to pay attention
to your numbers. Number 1, always, always, always
pay attention to your numbers.
Number 2, your people really are your most
important asset, and you have to make sure
that people show up every day with the
intent to serve you and the mission and
vision you've got in mind too. And then
the third thing is, when you see a
(02:06):
disruption,
there's almost always more to it than what
you think. So dig a little bit deeper
than you want to. Don't just look at
the surface problem and go, oh, okay. We've
solved that. We put a Band Aid on
it. Everything's fine. No. What I found was
there's almost always a far more endemic problem.
So what what was the transition like? I
(02:27):
got too excited and asked the question too
quickly. What was the transition post Navy to
what you're doing now?
When I was in my last tour in
the Navy, I taught at the Naval Academy
in Annapolis, Maryland. And the great thing about
that was the admiral at the time, the
superintendent,
was always being called to come and do
talks, come and do speeches, come and do
(02:47):
things. People wanted to hear about the status
of the Navy, they wanted to hear about
leadership, they wanted to hear about
something.
Well, the admiral was busy, and my friend
was the public affairs officer. And she used
to call me and go, Mary Anne, the
admiral can't do this one. Can you do
this one? Can you go in and do
this, you know, the the Marriott Corporation or
the FBI
or this pizza chain? And I'm like, okay,
(03:09):
and I didn't think too hard about it,
Mark. I didn't.
I because I had a day job. I
had my normal navy job and it was
a not just a day job as most
navy jobs are, so I just re braid
my hair and slap on some lipstick and
I'm in my uniform and I go off
and do these talks. And then at one
of these talks somebody said, you know, we
can't pay you because you're in uniform, but
boy, we'd really like it if you could
(03:30):
come back and train our people when you
retire.
And I thought, well, that sounds kind of
fun. And I had, like I say, a
couple of businesses,
business involvement before I joined the navy, and
the the
the premises
of what you're managing doesn't really change. It
doesn't matter if it's navy people or business
people. Managing and leading people is still managing
(03:51):
and leading people. And, you know, this is
where I think a lot of people get
hung up on. Well, how do we lead
Gen z? Or how do we lead millennials?
Or how do we lead boomers when they're
older than us? And what I say, regardless
of the demographic,
is people need great leadership. You lead individuals.
You don't lead demographics.
So lead the people, and the rest will
follow suit. So that was kind of a
(04:12):
long answer to a short question.
Well, how did
how did
you learn how to lead yourself to begin
with? To be a leader, how did you
get that
self awareness
to be able to go out and lead
people?
The great thing about the military is we
give you leadership and responsibilities
very, very early on.
(04:33):
I graduated from the naval academy when I
was 21 years old, and I had people
working for me 9 months later, and you
gotta figure it out. And you make mistakes.
That's what's great about the military is they
know you're 21, 22 years old. You're gonna
screw up. You're gonna make mistakes.
The whole point is learn from it and
move on. What I learned right away was,
again, address the problems right away. Problems do
(04:55):
not get better when you ignore them or
sit on them or magically hope they go
away. That's not how those work. And number
2,
pay attention to things like monthly reports.
In business, we call it our profit and
loss statements.
But in the Navy, I had a budget.
People don't understand that we don't just have
this big open checkbook in the military.
You have a budget and you have to
(05:15):
pay attention to it. And if something looks
wrong, it's probably wrong, and you've got to
then dig deeper for what's what's going on.
And in the leadership world,
I view leadership as going to the gym.
When I was in my twenties, Mark, I
used to go to the gym to get
stronger and faster and better. And now that
I'm way past my 20s,
(05:35):
by a few decades,
I go to the gym to not get
worse.
So I think part of leadership is not
accepting our own status quo
of what got us here was pretty good.
Now we can just sort of coast. It
doesn't work that way. And the great thing
about it is when you are when you
are faced with people looking at you every
single day going, okay, Ensign. Okay, lieutenant. Okay,
(05:58):
commander. What do we do? You gotta have
some kind of answers.
And if you give an answer, and then
you try that answer, and it's wrong, you
gotta go back and go, okay. So I
made the wrong choice, and we're gonna do
this. It teaches you to accept responsibility
and then
apologize and change
as the situation changes or as you get
more information.
(06:18):
And this is where I think a lot
of leaders, they're worried about making a mistake
or they're worried about going in the wrong
direction,
so they do nothing. They just stagnate
or they say, Well, we made that decision
a year ago, it's probably still a good
decision.
And they don't constantly reevaluate
the market conditions, for a better word, or
the situation.
In in a wartime scenario, you've got to
(06:39):
always be looking at what's the situation today
and how does it change since yesterday and
what's going to change tomorrow.
And you have to do the same thing
in business.
So in business, where if someone's watching or
listening
on either the they're gonna start a business
or they're, you know, a solopreneur, maybe a
cofounder, but they're still in the early stages.
How do you
(07:00):
start to consciously build a business and do
it effectively?
1st, you have to fish figure out your
your vision and your mission. What do you
do? And then why are you better at
it than somebody else? You can be competitively
better, like you're just better. Or you can
be comparatively better, you're at a lower price
point, or you're more convenient, or you're more
(07:20):
something. So you can be absolutely better, but
you don't have to be, you can just
be better in one area.
So competitively or comparatively, where are you better?
And then around that, build your value proposition.
I want to be the premier
eye institute
for the state of Texas
in 5 years. You know, you build out
your mission. You figure out where you want
(07:41):
to go. And then from there, you create
the action steps
to get you there. And then when you
craft the action steps, and this is where
I think a lot of people get stuck,
you have to first off say, what's going
to be the biggest obstacle that's going to
get in my way? And sometimes, it's your
own friends and family. Your friends and family
are going to go, no, you can't start
that business, you're terrible at this. I remember
(08:01):
when you were 5 years old, I remember
you did this. Those are not the people
to listen to.
You have to figure out the obstacles, whatever
it is. I want to go back and
finish my, MBA.
Alright. The obstacles might be, I don't have
time. I don't have money. I'm not sure
where to go. I'm not sure who's gonna
take my resume.
You have to figure out what the obstacles
are. Because once you have those obstacles, then
(08:22):
you you brainstorm on the solutions.
And if you don't give your brain a
place to go with the solutions,
it's going to focus on the obstacles and
you're going to stop. You're going to say,
well, I don't have time. And your brain
goes, okay, you don't have time. So then
your brain doesn't come up with solutions, but
you say, okay, Where am I gonna find
the time? How am I gonna find the
money? What other resources am I gonna need
(08:43):
in order to do this? Then your brain
hangs on the solutions, and that is a
very different place to be.
You mentioned a couple times. What makes a
good value proposition? Because there's so many out
there that seem meaningless so they just fall
short or fall on deaf ears. What makes
a good one?
I like a value proposition
that clearly identifies
what it is you do and how you
(09:04):
are better than other people, period.
And I have 4 areas that I look
at. 1st off, your people side. Do you
have the right people in place to get
the job done?
Number 2, do you have the right tools
and technology to get the job done? You
might be great at laying concrete,
but if you've got old rebar or your
concrete is an old combination and it's not
(09:25):
going to last, then that's a problem. That's
a technology and tools issue. And then 3,
you have to manage the uncertainty, which is
client customer management.
With everything going on in the world today,
many people feel uncertain.
So you can be simply better by being
a great communicator with your clients and customers
and manage their worries and uncertainty.
(09:46):
And then number 4 of a great value
proposition
is growth. How am I going to help
you,
my client, my customer, in a way that
works for you, not in a way that
works for me?
It has to be folk it has to
be very customer centric. So the people, the
tools, the technology,
managing the uncertainty, and then helping others with
(10:07):
where they wanna go, to me, makes a
great value proposition.
What are a few ways to manage clients
and customers? That's an interesting turn of phrase.
So most clients and customers so think about
in about, a short amount of time, I
get to go talk to some real estate
folks.
And one of the biggest complaints people have
with their real estate agents is they don't
(10:28):
hear from them often enough. And my real
estate agents say, I'm calling them every single
day. Why is that not enough? I'm like,
hang on. So, we've got a disconnect
where
the buyers or the sellers of that property
this is the biggest financial deal of their
life. There's going to be a lot of
uncertainty around this big financial deal. So, your
(10:49):
job as the agent is to manage that
uncertainty. If they need phone calls 10 times
a day, that's what you do. Even if
all you're doing mark what I call it
is pat head hold paw, just like my
dog.
Sometimes when there's a storm coming or there's
uncertainty,
the dog looks to me to tell him
it's gonna be okay. Mommy's here. Pat head
hold paw. Now I'm not saying that in
(11:10):
a condescending way. I am saying that as
the expert in the field, whether or not
you're a real estate agent or an insurance
agent or you sell cars or whatever you
do,
your job is to manage the uncertainty with
your clients and customers.
And that means communicating with them as often
as they need, could be 10 times a
day, in ways that work for them. If
(11:32):
they don't like text, you call. If they
don't like calls, you email. If they don't
like emails, send a carrier pigeon. Whatever works.
But help them be confident
that you are the expert, you are the
right choice, and you're going to guide them
through this process, whatever that is. It could
be buying a home. It could be brain
surgery.
Your job is to reassure your customers.
(11:52):
So once you get a client base and
a general business base, if you will,
how do you
scale? What what's your advice for actually scaling
it once you have a foundation built to
get a house on top of the foundation?
Exactly.
First, as business owners, business entrepreneurs, business founders,
One of the key things I suggest people
(12:13):
do is make a list of all the
things you do that can be delegated to
other people. And you don't even have to
have staff to do this in the beginning.
You can go on Fiverr or Upwork or
Nextdoor, and you can find people to help
you with your business.
Because if you've got a very specific skill
set, and you are doing trying to do
everything in your business, that's a recipe for
(12:34):
disaster.
And I will share with you, I made
this mistake early on. I know how to
build websites, and I thought
I should build my own website. I'm not
an expert at it, but I know how.
I learned.
That was a terrible idea. So one Saturday
afternoon, I am trying to figure out how
to get one
PDF loaded onto my website. And 3 hours
(12:56):
later, I am failing miserably at doing this.
And I sent a note to my my
amazing assistant who I've had since day 1.
And I said, I think you're probably better
at this than I am, and no hurry,
it's a Saturday afternoon, please don't look at
this till Monday. But I am I've been
I've spent 3 hours on this and I
cannot make this work. I said, so if
(13:16):
you've got any ideas, I'd appreciate it. Thanks
very much. I sign off. I think I
went and got a soda, came back about
5 seconds later. She sends a note back
and she goes, oh, you mean like this,
Mary? And it was perfect.
And I should tell you, Marc, at that
moment, I thought, okay, you've you've been preaching
it, you need to be delegating more, you
need to be asking for help
and paying people to do this. And you've
(13:37):
got to be delegating things that other people
can do, oftentimes because they're better than you,
but also because it frees you up to
do the things
only you can do. And my rule is
hire the best people you possibly can. I
subscribe to the theory of efficiency wages, which
is hire the best people you can, pay
them as much as you can, and they
(13:59):
will they will do the rest for you.
They will give you a 110%.
Show them appreciation, treat them well, all those
things that you learn in the military about
how to really take care of your people
and then do that. My biggest failure now
is I've got such an amazingly competent team
that I sometimes forget that they still need
communication from me, that they still can't read
(14:19):
my mind after, you know, a decade or
2 of working with me. I sometimes get
complacent too.
So how what what would you say to
someone who's not comfortable delegating? I mean, I've
run into it. It's come up in conversation
with friends. It's like, well, if I can
just do it, how do you get comfortable
and then good at delegating?
One of the questions I like to ask
(14:39):
people is, do you wanna build a business
or build a life?
Admit and I, like every other entrepreneur, I
routinely work, you know, 70, 80 hours a
week. This to me is really normal. This
is what we did in the military when
I was in. It's really normal to me.
But you can't have both. So you can
you can build a life around your business,
you can build a business around your life,
(15:00):
you kind of got to figure out which
one that is. And if you want to
have more lifetime,
then you need to be focusing on delegation.
And a lot of times, just because you
can do it, doesn't mean you should it's
like having kids, just because you can have
children, doesn't mean you should have children. You
know, there's certain things that you should not
necessarily do just because you can.
And then, in the beginning as entrepreneurs, especially
(15:21):
if you're starting out, of course, you want
to do as many things as possible. You're
trying to save money, you're trying to get
everything done, you've got that control thing going
on. But as you grow, you have to
let go more
because you cannot scale if you're still doing
everything. And you need your brain power
to go think of the next big thing,
(15:41):
the next big customer, the next big proposal,
the next big offering. And if you're so
tied up doing the minutiae,
your brain is not going to be going
there. It's going to be thinking about the
next little bitty tiny thing so we can
cross it off our list.
Well, once you start building, you delegate, things
are moving along, you hit a certain plateau.
How do you maintain
(16:02):
or even grow success once you've hit a
certain level? I'm happy financially. I've got I've
got at least a small team around me.
How do you keep from being just a
blip on the radar? I'm like, boom, crash.
Up, down. How do you maintain success?
Consistency.
Consistency in marketing,
consistency in messaging,
consistency
in
everything that you are managing. And I think
(16:24):
I showed you and your listeners all get
this. I put together my 12 month business
success and accountability plan. And I did it
for
some of my senior level execs
who I was meeting with them every single
week and I would ask them similar questions
every single week, what do you want to
talk through, what's still on your mind, what's
going on? But at the very beginning of
(16:45):
every month, Marc, I would ask these senior
people, what are your top five goals for
the month?
And they would say, I don't even know
what my top five goals are for the
year.
Okay, you've got 350 people following you and
you don't even know what your goals are,
much less how they're supposed to support you.
Let's maybe think about that. So I think
(17:06):
I've I've shared with you in the past.
So what I do is, every month, I
map out what my top five goals are
for the month.
And then,
not not for the year, this is just
the month. So, for example, in January, I
did not write down, put down, you know,
negotiate world peace. I didn't do that. You
gotta leave leave something for June, you know,
you gotta you gotta take it slowly. But
my top five goals for the month, and
(17:27):
then what and that's that 30 day period.
Not not in 3 months, that month. What
do I need to accomplish that month? And
then, what do I wanna do more of?
And that's one of the biggest questions I
ask my senior folks and my business owners.
What do you wanna do more of? Is
it more content creation? Is it more product
development? Do you wanna spend more time with
your high value customers? What do you wanna
(17:49):
do more of? What speaks to your skill
set? And at the same token, what do
you wanna do less of?
And look at that every single month. And
then this month and I just have two
lines in the in the planning guide for
this. What are you going to delegate
or
outsource? And it can be anything. It can
be your new business card. It can be
your new product design. It can be your
(18:10):
new logo. It can be anything. But what
are you going to delegate or outsource so
that you are freed up from that particular
task? And then what are you going to
streamline?
And when I tell people,
Streamline things, how do we make it easy
for people to get hold of us and
do business with us? Do we have systems
in place
that are not cumbersome
(18:31):
so that if people want to talk to
us, they hop on a call? If people
have a question, we make it easy for
them to contact us. If you looked at
a lot of websites lately, you'd be amazed
at how many websites have zero contact information.
No phone number, no address, no email. So
if somebody's got an issue, maybe they've got
a big issue, maybe they've got a small
(18:51):
issue.
I know that for some organizations, they say,
well, we we just don't wanna be bothered
with our customers. Okay. Hang on. The whole
reason you exist
is for your customers,
and you're saying you want to make it
hard for them to get hold of you
because you don't want to be inconvenienced by
a conversation.
Okay. And then I ask people, what do
you want to complete this month? Is there
(19:13):
a project
you want to complete? Is there was there
you know, maybe you just want to clean
out your desk. Maybe you just whatever it
is. And then, what am I going to
resolve?
There's almost always something to resolve. There's old
emails you need to answer. There's that one
client that you just didn't click with, and
you just like to put it to bed
in a nice way and say, you know
what? I I think we're done, but I
(19:33):
just wanna double check and make sure.
And then the other thing I ask my
business owners
to keep current is who are you gonna
contact? 3 people. 3 people. Every month. Who
are you gonna contact for advice?
Now sometimes that can be, hey. I'm gonna
listen to Mark's podcast, and maybe I'm gonna
give Mark a call. You know, maybe he's
got some other ideas that I really need.
(19:53):
Or maybe it's another business associate in my
industry. Or maybe it's somebody in my hometown.
But every month, that's my way of sort
of making sure you're continuing
to stay ahead.
Call a client and say and ask them,
how are things going for you? What what
do you see changing? But contact 3 people
every month for advice.
And that's always an amazing thing at the
(20:15):
end of the month. My senior people, that's
the hardest one. I say, did you make
your calls? They're like, no. Why not? Oh,
I got busy. Okay. So then you say,
all right, ask them for 3 to 5
minutes. That's it. And then don't go over
that 5 minutes. Say, can I get 3
to 5 minutes of your time? I just
want to ask you about this one thing.
So, first off, there is there's a theory
(20:35):
that goes along with this psychologically that if
you ask people for advice or if you
ask them for a favor,
they now want to do more things for
you. And you're what you're doing is you're
engendering your network, you're engendering your client base.
And then reach out to 3 potential these
are 3 different people, decision makers or potential
clients.
Something like, Hi, my friend Mark thought it
(20:57):
might be good for us to just have
a quick conversation.
He said, You really like the podcast. I
want to make sure you got the 12
month planner with with no issues. Just something
reach out and then and those are give
conversations. It's always about give, give, give, give,
give. And if people like what you're talking
about and they like you if you're the
BLT sandwich, if you're the people they believe,
like, and trust, they wanna do business with
(21:18):
you. But that consistency
every single month to me is key.
And it sounds like it's key to you're
saying, actually, write it down, not just, oh,
I have 3 goals in my head. Will
you say writing it down is paramount?
Nope. There you go. Absolutely. Writing it down
is critical. And I know some people are
listening to this. I'm showing Mark my my
planner where you write it down. And for
(21:40):
my my people who love things neat, I
love the OCD people in my life because
they're the ones who said, Mary, this has
to be something I can download,
fill in, type it out all nice and
neatly, then print it, then hit the check
marks, and satisfies all those happy things in
my brain. So, this is a downloadable, fillable
document
that you get to keep then and you
(22:00):
can look back on it and say, Okay,
I didn't do that one goal from March
and it's now what month? Maybe I should
go look at that again.
It has to be written down and preferably
in your own handwriting and I'll tell you
why. When you write something in your own
handwriting, it triggers a memory in your brain
like nothing else does. We know that, for
example, students who take notes
(22:22):
in a classroom by typing
retain
not
not even half of what people who are
handwriting things
retain.
And then when they look back at their
handwritten notes, because your handwriting is, you know,
you're doing it in the margins and you're
scribbling and you're making all these things, your
brain is triggered into remembering what you were
thinking at that time. It's very interesting. But,
(22:44):
yeah, write it down.
That's awesome. And
we've covered a lot of ground in a
short period of time. As far as whether
it's reinforcing something you said or maybe something
we haven't touched on yet, when it comes
to building and implementing your dream business, a
business you love, you were to say at
least do this one thing, at least this
above all, what would you what advice would
you have for people for that one thing
(23:04):
to be?
I would make sure you have
a business plan, not in your head, because
that doesn't exist, on paper. And in the
resources that I share with your audience, there's
a 5 minute business plan. It takes 5
minutes. If you're super clear on what you're
doing, it takes 5 minutes. If you're not
so super clear, it might take a little
bit longer, but it's 1 page long. One
(23:25):
page. And that just as you as you
get into the office in the morning, if
you're not sure of what you're supposed to
do to grow your business, you look at
your plan, and then you think, what behaviors,
what actions, what do I need to do
to support my plan today? And that will
guide you future.
That is awesome. If people wanna find you
online, where's the best place or places to
go?
(23:46):
My website is productiveleaders.com
because who wants an unproductive leader? Productiveleaders.com.
And it's mary@productiveleaders.
And this is one thing I don't delegate.
I do not delegate my email, so it
will be me answering.
Thank you so much for your time. I
appreciate it, Mary.
Thanks, Mark. It's a joy to be with
you. Thank you.
(24:08):
And scene.
Thank you for joining us today. I hope
you enjoyed the episode. I also hope that
you'll subscribe to the idea climbing podcast and
rate us on Itunes.
Visitideaclimbing.com
to learn more about idea climbing and hear
more episodes about mentoring,
marketing, and big ideas.
Welcome to the Idea Climbing podcast.
Today, I'm discussing how to build and scale
a business you love with my guest, Mary
Kelly. Mary is a hall of fame speaker
who started working in the family sales business
when she was just 10 years old. A
former Navy intelligence officer, Mary spent most of
her active duty time in Asia. We dive
into topics such as the benefits of asking
(00:21):
her advice on how to go about it
the right way, the four components of a
great value proposition and how to create one,
how to not just maintain, but scale success
once you've reached it, and more golden nuggets
of advice. You're gonna love this show.
(00:42):
Welcome again to the Idea Climbing podcast. Thank
you for being here, Mary. I really appreciate
you making the time.
Mark, this is a great day for business
people to think about how they're going to
build, plan, and implement business strategies.
We're gonna get into some strategies. Before we
do this, as far as building the building
and implementing the business you love,
(01:03):
how did you discover it? How did you
do it? What's your story?
I started working on my dad's business, working
trade shows since I was about 7 years
old. At 10, my parents would leave me
alone in a trade show booth to write
orders while they went around and did what
they needed to do. So I've been part
of a business since I was very small.
I took a small hiatus for about 25
(01:24):
years. I joined the navy. I got to
be in Asia for about 17 years of
that. Got to lead teams, multicultural,
multilingual,
all over Asia for about 17 years.
And in that time, I learned how to
manage people
and assets
and supply chains.
And then I started lessons you were learned?
(01:45):
Oh my goodness. You have to pay attention
to your numbers. Number 1, always, always, always
pay attention to your numbers.
Number 2, your people really are your most
important asset, and you have to make sure
that people show up every day with the
intent to serve you and the mission and
vision you've got in mind too. And then
the third thing is, when you see a
(02:06):
disruption,
there's almost always more to it than what
you think. So dig a little bit deeper
than you want to. Don't just look at
the surface problem and go, oh, okay. We've
solved that. We put a Band Aid on
it. Everything's fine. No. What I found was
there's almost always a far more endemic problem.
So what what was the transition like? I
(02:27):
got too excited and asked the question too
quickly. What was the transition post Navy to
what you're doing now?
When I was in my last tour in
the Navy, I taught at the Naval Academy
in Annapolis, Maryland. And the great thing about
that was the admiral at the time, the
superintendent,
was always being called to come and do
talks, come and do speeches, come and do
(02:47):
things. People wanted to hear about the status
of the Navy, they wanted to hear about
leadership, they wanted to hear about
something.
Well, the admiral was busy, and my friend
was the public affairs officer. And she used
to call me and go, Mary Anne, the
admiral can't do this one. Can you do
this one? Can you go in and do
this, you know, the the Marriott Corporation or
the FBI
or this pizza chain? And I'm like, okay,
(03:09):
and I didn't think too hard about it,
Mark. I didn't.
I because I had a day job. I
had my normal navy job and it was
a not just a day job as most
navy jobs are, so I just re braid
my hair and slap on some lipstick and
I'm in my uniform and I go off
and do these talks. And then at one
of these talks somebody said, you know, we
can't pay you because you're in uniform, but
boy, we'd really like it if you could
(03:30):
come back and train our people when you
retire.
And I thought, well, that sounds kind of
fun. And I had, like I say, a
couple of businesses,
business involvement before I joined the navy, and
the the
the premises
of what you're managing doesn't really change. It
doesn't matter if it's navy people or business
people. Managing and leading people is still managing
(03:51):
and leading people. And, you know, this is
where I think a lot of people get
hung up on. Well, how do we lead
Gen z? Or how do we lead millennials?
Or how do we lead boomers when they're
older than us? And what I say, regardless
of the demographic,
is people need great leadership. You lead individuals.
You don't lead demographics.
So lead the people, and the rest will
follow suit. So that was kind of a
(04:12):
long answer to a short question.
Well, how did
how did
you learn how to lead yourself to begin
with? To be a leader, how did you
get that
self awareness
to be able to go out and lead
people?
The great thing about the military is we
give you leadership and responsibilities
very, very early on.
(04:33):
I graduated from the naval academy when I
was 21 years old, and I had people
working for me 9 months later, and you
gotta figure it out. And you make mistakes.
That's what's great about the military is they
know you're 21, 22 years old. You're gonna
screw up. You're gonna make mistakes.
The whole point is learn from it and
move on. What I learned right away was,
again, address the problems right away. Problems do
(04:55):
not get better when you ignore them or
sit on them or magically hope they go
away. That's not how those work. And number
2,
pay attention to things like monthly reports.
In business, we call it our profit and
loss statements.
But in the Navy, I had a budget.
People don't understand that we don't just have
this big open checkbook in the military.
You have a budget and you have to
(05:15):
pay attention to it. And if something looks
wrong, it's probably wrong, and you've got to
then dig deeper for what's what's going on.
And in the leadership world,
I view leadership as going to the gym.
When I was in my twenties, Mark, I
used to go to the gym to get
stronger and faster and better. And now that
I'm way past my 20s,
(05:35):
by a few decades,
I go to the gym to not get
worse.
So I think part of leadership is not
accepting our own status quo
of what got us here was pretty good.
Now we can just sort of coast. It
doesn't work that way. And the great thing
about it is when you are when you
are faced with people looking at you every
single day going, okay, Ensign. Okay, lieutenant. Okay,
(05:58):
commander. What do we do? You gotta have
some kind of answers.
And if you give an answer, and then
you try that answer, and it's wrong, you
gotta go back and go, okay. So I
made the wrong choice, and we're gonna do
this. It teaches you to accept responsibility
and then
apologize and change
as the situation changes or as you get
more information.
(06:18):
And this is where I think a lot
of leaders, they're worried about making a mistake
or they're worried about going in the wrong
direction,
so they do nothing. They just stagnate
or they say, Well, we made that decision
a year ago, it's probably still a good
decision.
And they don't constantly reevaluate
the market conditions, for a better word, or
the situation.
In in a wartime scenario, you've got to
(06:39):
always be looking at what's the situation today
and how does it change since yesterday and
what's going to change tomorrow.
And you have to do the same thing
in business.
So in business, where if someone's watching or
listening
on either the they're gonna start a business
or they're, you know, a solopreneur, maybe a
cofounder, but they're still in the early stages.
How do you
(07:00):
start to consciously build a business and do
it effectively?
1st, you have to fish figure out your
your vision and your mission. What do you
do? And then why are you better at
it than somebody else? You can be competitively
better, like you're just better. Or you can
be comparatively better, you're at a lower price
point, or you're more convenient, or you're more
(07:20):
something. So you can be absolutely better, but
you don't have to be, you can just
be better in one area.
So competitively or comparatively, where are you better?
And then around that, build your value proposition.
I want to be the premier
eye institute
for the state of Texas
in 5 years. You know, you build out
your mission. You figure out where you want
(07:41):
to go. And then from there, you create
the action steps
to get you there. And then when you
craft the action steps, and this is where
I think a lot of people get stuck,
you have to first off say, what's going
to be the biggest obstacle that's going to
get in my way? And sometimes, it's your
own friends and family. Your friends and family
are going to go, no, you can't start
that business, you're terrible at this. I remember
(08:01):
when you were 5 years old, I remember
you did this. Those are not the people
to listen to.
You have to figure out the obstacles, whatever
it is. I want to go back and
finish my, MBA.
Alright. The obstacles might be, I don't have
time. I don't have money. I'm not sure
where to go. I'm not sure who's gonna
take my resume.
You have to figure out what the obstacles
are. Because once you have those obstacles, then
(08:22):
you you brainstorm on the solutions.
And if you don't give your brain a
place to go with the solutions,
it's going to focus on the obstacles and
you're going to stop. You're going to say,
well, I don't have time. And your brain
goes, okay, you don't have time. So then
your brain doesn't come up with solutions, but
you say, okay, Where am I gonna find
the time? How am I gonna find the
money? What other resources am I gonna need
(08:43):
in order to do this? Then your brain
hangs on the solutions, and that is a
very different place to be.
You mentioned a couple times. What makes a
good value proposition? Because there's so many out
there that seem meaningless so they just fall
short or fall on deaf ears. What makes
a good one?
I like a value proposition
that clearly identifies
what it is you do and how you
(09:04):
are better than other people, period.
And I have 4 areas that I look
at. 1st off, your people side. Do you
have the right people in place to get
the job done?
Number 2, do you have the right tools
and technology to get the job done? You
might be great at laying concrete,
but if you've got old rebar or your
concrete is an old combination and it's not
(09:25):
going to last, then that's a problem. That's
a technology and tools issue. And then 3,
you have to manage the uncertainty, which is
client customer management.
With everything going on in the world today,
many people feel uncertain.
So you can be simply better by being
a great communicator with your clients and customers
and manage their worries and uncertainty.
(09:46):
And then number 4 of a great value
proposition
is growth. How am I going to help
you,
my client, my customer, in a way that
works for you, not in a way that
works for me?
It has to be folk it has to
be very customer centric. So the people, the
tools, the technology,
managing the uncertainty, and then helping others with
(10:07):
where they wanna go, to me, makes a
great value proposition.
What are a few ways to manage clients
and customers? That's an interesting turn of phrase.
So most clients and customers so think about
in about, a short amount of time, I
get to go talk to some real estate
folks.
And one of the biggest complaints people have
with their real estate agents is they don't
(10:28):
hear from them often enough. And my real
estate agents say, I'm calling them every single
day. Why is that not enough? I'm like,
hang on. So, we've got a disconnect
where
the buyers or the sellers of that property
this is the biggest financial deal of their
life. There's going to be a lot of
uncertainty around this big financial deal. So, your
(10:49):
job as the agent is to manage that
uncertainty. If they need phone calls 10 times
a day, that's what you do. Even if
all you're doing mark what I call it
is pat head hold paw, just like my
dog.
Sometimes when there's a storm coming or there's
uncertainty,
the dog looks to me to tell him
it's gonna be okay. Mommy's here. Pat head
hold paw. Now I'm not saying that in
(11:10):
a condescending way. I am saying that as
the expert in the field, whether or not
you're a real estate agent or an insurance
agent or you sell cars or whatever you
do,
your job is to manage the uncertainty with
your clients and customers.
And that means communicating with them as often
as they need, could be 10 times a
day, in ways that work for them. If
(11:32):
they don't like text, you call. If they
don't like calls, you email. If they don't
like emails, send a carrier pigeon. Whatever works.
But help them be confident
that you are the expert, you are the
right choice, and you're going to guide them
through this process, whatever that is. It could
be buying a home. It could be brain
surgery.
Your job is to reassure your customers.
(11:52):
So once you get a client base and
a general business base, if you will,
how do you
scale? What what's your advice for actually scaling
it once you have a foundation built to
get a house on top of the foundation?
Exactly.
First, as business owners, business entrepreneurs, business founders,
One of the key things I suggest people
(12:13):
do is make a list of all the
things you do that can be delegated to
other people. And you don't even have to
have staff to do this in the beginning.
You can go on Fiverr or Upwork or
Nextdoor, and you can find people to help
you with your business.
Because if you've got a very specific skill
set, and you are doing trying to do
everything in your business, that's a recipe for
(12:34):
disaster.
And I will share with you, I made
this mistake early on. I know how to
build websites, and I thought
I should build my own website. I'm not
an expert at it, but I know how.
I learned.
That was a terrible idea. So one Saturday
afternoon, I am trying to figure out how
to get one
PDF loaded onto my website. And 3 hours
(12:56):
later, I am failing miserably at doing this.
And I sent a note to my my
amazing assistant who I've had since day 1.
And I said, I think you're probably better
at this than I am, and no hurry,
it's a Saturday afternoon, please don't look at
this till Monday. But I am I've been
I've spent 3 hours on this and I
cannot make this work. I said, so if
(13:16):
you've got any ideas, I'd appreciate it. Thanks
very much. I sign off. I think I
went and got a soda, came back about
5 seconds later. She sends a note back
and she goes, oh, you mean like this,
Mary? And it was perfect.
And I should tell you, Marc, at that
moment, I thought, okay, you've you've been preaching
it, you need to be delegating more, you
need to be asking for help
and paying people to do this. And you've
(13:37):
got to be delegating things that other people
can do, oftentimes because they're better than you,
but also because it frees you up to
do the things
only you can do. And my rule is
hire the best people you possibly can. I
subscribe to the theory of efficiency wages, which
is hire the best people you can, pay
them as much as you can, and they
(13:59):
will they will do the rest for you.
They will give you a 110%.
Show them appreciation, treat them well, all those
things that you learn in the military about
how to really take care of your people
and then do that. My biggest failure now
is I've got such an amazingly competent team
that I sometimes forget that they still need
communication from me, that they still can't read
(14:19):
my mind after, you know, a decade or
2 of working with me. I sometimes get
complacent too.
So how what what would you say to
someone who's not comfortable delegating? I mean, I've
run into it. It's come up in conversation
with friends. It's like, well, if I can
just do it, how do you get comfortable
and then good at delegating?
One of the questions I like to ask
(14:39):
people is, do you wanna build a business
or build a life?
Admit and I, like every other entrepreneur, I
routinely work, you know, 70, 80 hours a
week. This to me is really normal. This
is what we did in the military when
I was in. It's really normal to me.
But you can't have both. So you can
you can build a life around your business,
you can build a business around your life,
(15:00):
you kind of got to figure out which
one that is. And if you want to
have more lifetime,
then you need to be focusing on delegation.
And a lot of times, just because you
can do it, doesn't mean you should it's
like having kids, just because you can have
children, doesn't mean you should have children. You
know, there's certain things that you should not
necessarily do just because you can.
And then, in the beginning as entrepreneurs, especially
(15:21):
if you're starting out, of course, you want
to do as many things as possible. You're
trying to save money, you're trying to get
everything done, you've got that control thing going
on. But as you grow, you have to
let go more
because you cannot scale if you're still doing
everything. And you need your brain power
to go think of the next big thing,
(15:41):
the next big customer, the next big proposal,
the next big offering. And if you're so
tied up doing the minutiae,
your brain is not going to be going
there. It's going to be thinking about the
next little bitty tiny thing so we can
cross it off our list.
Well, once you start building, you delegate, things
are moving along, you hit a certain plateau.
How do you maintain
(16:02):
or even grow success once you've hit a
certain level? I'm happy financially. I've got I've
got at least a small team around me.
How do you keep from being just a
blip on the radar? I'm like, boom, crash.
Up, down. How do you maintain success?
Consistency.
Consistency in marketing,
consistency in messaging,
consistency
in
everything that you are managing. And I think
(16:24):
I showed you and your listeners all get
this. I put together my 12 month business
success and accountability plan. And I did it
for
some of my senior level execs
who I was meeting with them every single
week and I would ask them similar questions
every single week, what do you want to
talk through, what's still on your mind, what's
going on? But at the very beginning of
(16:45):
every month, Marc, I would ask these senior
people, what are your top five goals for
the month?
And they would say, I don't even know
what my top five goals are for the
year.
Okay, you've got 350 people following you and
you don't even know what your goals are,
much less how they're supposed to support you.
Let's maybe think about that. So I think
(17:06):
I've I've shared with you in the past.
So what I do is, every month, I
map out what my top five goals are
for the month.
And then,
not not for the year, this is just
the month. So, for example, in January, I
did not write down, put down, you know,
negotiate world peace. I didn't do that. You
gotta leave leave something for June, you know,
you gotta you gotta take it slowly. But
my top five goals for the month, and
(17:27):
then what and that's that 30 day period.
Not not in 3 months, that month. What
do I need to accomplish that month? And
then, what do I wanna do more of?
And that's one of the biggest questions I
ask my senior folks and my business owners.
What do you wanna do more of? Is
it more content creation? Is it more product
development? Do you wanna spend more time with
your high value customers? What do you wanna
(17:49):
do more of? What speaks to your skill
set? And at the same token, what do
you wanna do less of?
And look at that every single month. And
then this month and I just have two
lines in the in the planning guide for
this. What are you going to delegate
or
outsource? And it can be anything. It can
be your new business card. It can be
your new product design. It can be your
(18:10):
new logo. It can be anything. But what
are you going to delegate or outsource so
that you are freed up from that particular
task? And then what are you going to
streamline?
And when I tell people,
Streamline things, how do we make it easy
for people to get hold of us and
do business with us? Do we have systems
in place
that are not cumbersome
(18:31):
so that if people want to talk to
us, they hop on a call? If people
have a question, we make it easy for
them to contact us. If you looked at
a lot of websites lately, you'd be amazed
at how many websites have zero contact information.
No phone number, no address, no email. So
if somebody's got an issue, maybe they've got
a big issue, maybe they've got a small
(18:51):
issue.
I know that for some organizations, they say,
well, we we just don't wanna be bothered
with our customers. Okay. Hang on. The whole
reason you exist
is for your customers,
and you're saying you want to make it
hard for them to get hold of you
because you don't want to be inconvenienced by
a conversation.
Okay. And then I ask people, what do
you want to complete this month? Is there
(19:13):
a project
you want to complete? Is there was there
you know, maybe you just want to clean
out your desk. Maybe you just whatever it
is. And then, what am I going to
resolve?
There's almost always something to resolve. There's old
emails you need to answer. There's that one
client that you just didn't click with, and
you just like to put it to bed
in a nice way and say, you know
what? I I think we're done, but I
(19:33):
just wanna double check and make sure.
And then the other thing I ask my
business owners
to keep current is who are you gonna
contact? 3 people. 3 people. Every month. Who
are you gonna contact for advice?
Now sometimes that can be, hey. I'm gonna
listen to Mark's podcast, and maybe I'm gonna
give Mark a call. You know, maybe he's
got some other ideas that I really need.
(19:53):
Or maybe it's another business associate in my
industry. Or maybe it's somebody in my hometown.
But every month, that's my way of sort
of making sure you're continuing
to stay ahead.
Call a client and say and ask them,
how are things going for you? What what
do you see changing? But contact 3 people
every month for advice.
And that's always an amazing thing at the
(20:15):
end of the month. My senior people, that's
the hardest one. I say, did you make
your calls? They're like, no. Why not? Oh,
I got busy. Okay. So then you say,
all right, ask them for 3 to 5
minutes. That's it. And then don't go over
that 5 minutes. Say, can I get 3
to 5 minutes of your time? I just
want to ask you about this one thing.
So, first off, there is there's a theory
(20:35):
that goes along with this psychologically that if
you ask people for advice or if you
ask them for a favor,
they now want to do more things for
you. And you're what you're doing is you're
engendering your network, you're engendering your client base.
And then reach out to 3 potential these
are 3 different people, decision makers or potential
clients.
Something like, Hi, my friend Mark thought it
(20:57):
might be good for us to just have
a quick conversation.
He said, You really like the podcast. I
want to make sure you got the 12
month planner with with no issues. Just something
reach out and then and those are give
conversations. It's always about give, give, give, give,
give. And if people like what you're talking
about and they like you if you're the
BLT sandwich, if you're the people they believe,
like, and trust, they wanna do business with
(21:18):
you. But that consistency
every single month to me is key.
And it sounds like it's key to you're
saying, actually, write it down, not just, oh,
I have 3 goals in my head. Will
you say writing it down is paramount?
Nope. There you go. Absolutely. Writing it down
is critical. And I know some people are
listening to this. I'm showing Mark my my
planner where you write it down. And for
(21:40):
my my people who love things neat, I
love the OCD people in my life because
they're the ones who said, Mary, this has
to be something I can download,
fill in, type it out all nice and
neatly, then print it, then hit the check
marks, and satisfies all those happy things in
my brain. So, this is a downloadable, fillable
document
that you get to keep then and you
(22:00):
can look back on it and say, Okay,
I didn't do that one goal from March
and it's now what month? Maybe I should
go look at that again.
It has to be written down and preferably
in your own handwriting and I'll tell you
why. When you write something in your own
handwriting, it triggers a memory in your brain
like nothing else does. We know that, for
example, students who take notes
(22:22):
in a classroom by typing
retain
not
not even half of what people who are
handwriting things
retain.
And then when they look back at their
handwritten notes, because your handwriting is, you know,
you're doing it in the margins and you're
scribbling and you're making all these things, your
brain is triggered into remembering what you were
thinking at that time. It's very interesting. But,
(22:44):
yeah, write it down.
That's awesome. And
we've covered a lot of ground in a
short period of time. As far as whether
it's reinforcing something you said or maybe something
we haven't touched on yet, when it comes
to building and implementing your dream business, a
business you love, you were to say at
least do this one thing, at least this
above all, what would you what advice would
you have for people for that one thing
(23:04):
to be?
I would make sure you have
a business plan, not in your head, because
that doesn't exist, on paper. And in the
resources that I share with your audience, there's
a 5 minute business plan. It takes 5
minutes. If you're super clear on what you're
doing, it takes 5 minutes. If you're not
so super clear, it might take a little
bit longer, but it's 1 page long. One
(23:25):
page. And that just as you as you
get into the office in the morning, if
you're not sure of what you're supposed to
do to grow your business, you look at
your plan, and then you think, what behaviors,
what actions, what do I need to do
to support my plan today? And that will
guide you future.
That is awesome. If people wanna find you
online, where's the best place or places to
go?
(23:46):
My website is productiveleaders.com
because who wants an unproductive leader? Productiveleaders.com.
And it's mary@productiveleaders.
And this is one thing I don't delegate.
I do not delegate my email, so it
will be me answering.
Thank you so much for your time. I
appreciate it, Mary.
Thanks, Mark. It's a joy to be with
you. Thank you.
(24:08):
And scene.
Thank you for joining us today. I hope
you enjoyed the episode. I also hope that
you'll subscribe to the idea climbing podcast and
rate us on Itunes.
Visitideaclimbing.com
to learn more about idea climbing and hear
more episodes about mentoring,
marketing, and big ideas.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.