In-Between: Sexuality is a Spectrum

To close Pride Month out with a bang, I asked my good friend, Alex Armijo, to come back on the pod and discuss a topic that puts me a little out of my comfort zone.... sexuality. Dun dun DUN! One might blame Chappel Roan, but this episode was inspired by the question, what does queer even mean?

Alex is an artist, DEI thought leader, a disability, LGBTQIA+, and human rights advocate. Basically, one of my favorite people to discuss these types of topics with. We also dive into Inside Out 2 (hehe). 

Here's a look at what we discuss:

• Sexuality is a spectrum
• Chapell Roan and her ownership of her queer identity and how that inspires others
• What does queer even mean?
• Alex and I share our first experiences with "sexuality" 
• Labels and how they can help or hurt.... 
• What "coming out" represents
• Finding your communities - they're out there! 
• No matter what, who you love and what you enjoy are perfect and no one should ever take that away <3

This episode was scary for me to do, but sexuality isn't something to be ashamed of. This is for anyone who may be scared, confused, or needing a reminder that they are perfect just the way they are. 

Let your freak flag fly, baby!

If you'd like to keep up with Alex, check out their website www.alexarmijo.com and their instagram @the.perpetual.hobbyist.

If you are loving The In-Between, remember to rate, review, subscribe, and follow!

Connect with me:
https://in-between.co
@in.betweenpod on Instagram
@elizabethcheney_ on Instagram
@theinbetweenpodcast on TikTok
The In-Between Podcast on YouTube

Episode Transcript

Elizabeth (00:06):
Hey, hey, everyone.
Welcome back to another episodeof the in between.
I'm your host, Elizabeth, and Ihave my friend, Alex Armijo
here.
She's an artist.
She's an ally.
She's an advocate.
She's a D E I thought leader.
So she's basically a badass.
Uh, she was here a few weeksago.
We had a super fun episode, theon neurodiversity, ADHD, and

(00:26):
just all our weird quirks of ourbrains.
The things that make us us.
Ah, insert little jingle here.
Uh, but I, I was, I was like,Hey, Alex, I'd like to have you
back on the pod.
You're fun.
You're my friend.
I like our banter.
And also like you are interestedin like a lot of different
things.
And I was in the theme of pridemonth.
I was like, I want to talk aboutsexuality.

(00:47):
And so anyways, I digress.
We'll get into all that fun shitlater, but Alex, welcome to the
in between again.

Alex (00:54):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Good to be back.
Always enjoying our littlesessions together.

Elizabeth (01:00):
They are sessions.
We

Alex (01:02):
I know they are.
They're like, they're like, uh,therapy sessions.
I feel like

Elizabeth (01:05):
They

Alex (01:06):
we should get insurance reimbursement for this.
I feel like.

Elizabeth (01:10):
Is that, is that a possibility?
I'm sure our benefits team wouldlove that.

Alex (01:14):
is not a possibility.
Let me tell you what.

Elizabeth (01:17):
She, she's like been there tried and true and it did
not work out for me.
Well, before we actually getinto anything today, I just want
to humble brag on you for asecond.
So you're an artist and I knowyou talked about your art last
time you were on and I'll letyou tee up your social media at
the end.
But since you were on.
You've sold a few originalworks, right?

Alex (01:36):
I have, man, I went like a whole month that I sold four
original pieces.
I was so excited.
And I sold some, some additionalprints and I've got a new
commission that's coming up.
Like I am just really getting

Elizabeth (01:52):
See something about getting out of your comfort
zone, right?
And then the universe justrewards.
I feel like this entire episodetoday is going to be out of my
comfort zone.
Just a wee bit, but you knowwhat?
That's why I'm going to have itbecause.
What do I always say?
There's magic in the unknown.
There is magic getting out ofyour comfort zone.
So we're just going to see if wecrash and burn here or if I end

(02:13):
up unicorn at the end.
So we're hoping for the, thelatter, but congrats on that.
That is so bad ass.
I can't even imagine howfulfilling and validating that
must be for someone to pay you,compensate you for your art.
Like, Oh, I love

Alex (02:29):
Yeah, well, and not only that, but it's like this person
sees the stuff that's that Ihave displayed, and they're
like, I want to be part of yourcelebrating Beautiful different
sized bodies.
I'm like, and I see myself inyour art.
Do you know how like that's thewhole reason I do what I do

Elizabeth (02:48):
I love that.

Alex (02:49):
see themselves.
Cause that's, that's why Istarted in the first place was
because I was not seeing my bodytype in a lot of erotic art or
just a art celebrating ourbodies.
Right.
And, um, so I started doing iton my own and here I am,

Elizabeth (03:08):
that's so awesome.

Alex (03:09):
as can be.

Elizabeth (03:10):
And it is the ultimate compliment like I see
me in this it's like oh Yes, aslong as there's confidence.
Oh, I love it.
I love it.
So snaps for you I don't know ifyou can hear that but

Alex (03:21):
Thank you.
Thank

Elizabeth (03:21):
Alex So yeah, what you've been up to recently.
Have you you're my little you'remy little My little, my little,
my little friend, um, you're oneof my favorite people to talk
mental health things with.
Cause like we literally do havecoffee chats and we talk about
all things.
We talk about family internalsystems, DEI, whatever the shit,

(03:43):
but, uh, what have you been intorecently?
Have you seen Inside Out 2?
Cause I feel like

Alex (03:48):
I saw okay I saw it inside out too I cried when anxiety had
her anxiety attack cuz I waslike Yeah, it was

Elizabeth (03:59):
So overall you enjoyed it, I'm going to assume.

Alex (04:02):
really cute I mean I don't feel like it didn't hit me the
same as

Elizabeth (04:04):
hmm.

Alex (04:06):
And I heard that some of the characters, uh, changed, so,
but I didn't, honestly,

Elizabeth (04:11):
Yes, disgust, disgust and fear, disgust and fear have
a different vocal actor.
So, I just want to give my quickthoughts.
And before I even give my quickthoughts, because I have
thoughts, and of course I havethoughts.
I am not a Disney adult, butyour girl does love Inside Out.
And so, I went into this withvery high expectations.
And for what it's worth, InsideOut 1 wrecked me.

(04:34):
Like, wrecked me.
Maybe in the worst way, butdefinitely in the best way.
But like, oh my gosh, spoilalert.
If I mean, it's, it came outlike forever ago.
So if you haven't seen it, thenthis is on you.
But like emotions, havingemotions, who would have funk
it?
But like, holy shit balls.
It got me, got me good.
I

Alex (04:51):
Mm

Elizabeth (04:52):
I will watch that movie even if I just want to
like a cry.
If I need to cry, just put it onbecause it's going to wreck you.
Yes.
A 10 year old moving is going towreck you.
Just wait for it.
Just wait.
But it's great.
It's great.
So I went into this movie.
With extremely highexpectations, especially when I
was like, Ooh, our girl anxietyis

Alex (05:11):
There's your problem with a sequel,

Elizabeth (05:13):
well.
Again, because Inside Out wasabsolutely phenomenal, I was
like, I thought, becausenormally I don't have

Alex (05:21):
thought they were gonna do it

Elizabeth (05:22):
I did, because it's also Pixar, so I'm taking, like,
that magic and the Inside Outmagic, and I'm like, it's gonna
be great.
and plus, like, how could theymess up puberty?
Like, that's like a whole storyarc, right?
So much,

Alex (05:34):
could have gone on for hours.

Elizabeth (05:36):
it definitely could.
It was way too short.

Alex (05:38):
of waiting for the character Riley, which is also
my daughter's name, by the way,um, to come out as a lesbian,
uh, in Inside Out 3 because didyou see all of her like hot
older girl teammates that shewas obsessed with?

Elizabeth (05:53):
I, I saw that and I'm like, there is like your high
school age, like, you know,emotional expression, but we
digress, I need to get back tolike my pain points of this.

Alex (06:03):
Okay, your pain points,

Elizabeth (06:04):
You're like, Jesus Christ, who gives a shit?
I'm like, I have, I have hyperanalyzed this.
I'm just kidding.
These are my few ics.
One,

Alex (06:13):
Mm

Elizabeth (06:14):
Inside Out took place over like the course of like 10
months or however long a schoolyear was because she moves and
it's like her progressionthrough that, right?
This movie was over the courseof three days.
It was so rushed.
So I felt like it was rushed.
I feel like it was

Alex (06:27):
Mm hmm.
Okay.
Okay.
I can see that.

Elizabeth (06:30):
think it was great.
I still think it's a gonna be agreat tool to talk about anxiety
and like overcoming it and likeit taking over blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah.
But I think they tried to do toomuch.
They introduced four newemotions and they hardly even
touched like embarrassment andboredom and envy.
I,

Alex (06:46):
On Wii.

Elizabeth (06:47):
yeah, right.
And envy kept going back and onway.
Yeah, what an

Alex (06:53):
burn.
I'm like, go count something.
How could you possibly be bored?

Elizabeth (07:00):
Go, go find 20 different colored things and
then come entertain me.

Alex (07:05):
I mean, that's honestly what I do sometimes.

Elizabeth (07:08):
12 different leaves from different plants and grass
doesn't count.
Um, but like Envy, I felt likewas Envy maybe part of the time
and then Envy was just like afangirl.
I don't even know what Envy was.
I don't know.
It was weird.

Alex (07:24):
I thought it was weird too.
I thought Envy was weird too

Elizabeth (07:27):
Envy was not played

Alex (07:28):
little more like, Oh, that's so cute.
But it

Elizabeth (07:30):
Yeah, I was like, I can't get it, but

Alex (07:33):
and want that thing.

Elizabeth (07:34):
it was still good.
It was still great.
It will still be a great tool.
Like I said, to use like thoseconversations, but it was just
too much.
Like, I feel like anxiety shouldhave just been introduced and
then maybe.
Because they didn't even do agood job, in my opinion, of like
seeing how the new ones playedinto anxiety.
Like I felt like it just wasn't,like it did not have that

(07:56):
complexity that the first onehad.

Alex (07:58):
Counterpoint.
that's how puberty is.

Elizabeth (08:03):
I thought about that.
I did think about that.
I did think about that.
But then I was like, but thenthey could have played more into
that.
I don't know.
Uh,

Alex (08:11):
more.
I feel like, I feel like they'resetting themselves up for
additional sequels.
Yes.

Elizabeth (08:18):
sure, for sure, but like, you know,

Alex (08:20):
I feel like they did too much and too little of the

Elizabeth (08:23):
Yes, 1000%.

Alex (08:25):
but also that is fully how puberty is.
Also how my brain works on adaily basis.

Elizabeth (08:38):
I think it was my expectations and myself.
So I know the problem is me.
Hi, me, me, me.
But I, and I may have had, like,two margaritas.
So who knows how that influencedit.
But,

Alex (08:49):
Also, I was in and out because I took my four year old
daughter to, the movie theaterfor the first time.

Elizabeth (08:54):
oh, how fun!

Alex (08:55):
it was like, I want water.
I have to potty.
I'm hungry.

Elizabeth (09:01):
you probably missed, like, you know, a third of it.
I hear,

Alex (09:03):
did some of it.

Elizabeth (09:05):
Well, it was only like an hour and 20 minutes
long, so

Alex (09:06):
I know.

Elizabeth (09:07):
missed some plot point.

Alex (09:08):
And with those dang lines, and man, I never go to the movie
theater, but

Elizabeth (09:12):
me

Alex (09:12):
me tell you, these days they have the, the recliner

Elizabeth (09:16):
Oh, it's nicer than your house.
It's so

Alex (09:19):
like, okay, I can, I can do this, because

Elizabeth (09:22):
We were like in pods.
Me and my, me and my friend,Ashley and I, like we were in
pods and like I couldn't see thepeople next to us because the
people behind us, it was anexperience.
I mean, I could have fallenasleep.
Like it was, it was nice.
It was nice.
There was blankets, which Ididn't use the blanket.
I had my own.

Alex (09:38):
Yeah, there was like a bar outside and a coffee shop.
Ice cream?
I'm just, I'm like, what isthis?
No

Elizabeth (09:46):
give me some gummies and a blue slushie, like, damn.
Like, what happened to the goodol movie theater butter popcorn?
Now it's like gourmet.

Alex (09:54):
all I want here.
Please cut my ticket price inhalf.
I will not use the rest of this.

Elizabeth (10:00):
Although the chairs were pretty clutch, I will, I
won't lie, but it was, it

Alex (10:03):
Okay, I will use that.
Increase it 20%.
I'm fine with that.

Elizabeth (10:07):
Yeah, no, I don't really go to the movie theater
either.
I feel like I go to the movieslike once a year.
So, like, this is my movie Iguess this year, although Stan
definitely wants to seeDeadpool.
Oh, and Wicked comes out! Oh mygod, we'll definitely go see
Wicked.
Wicked.

Alex (10:18):
ooh.
Yeah, there's a lot of goodstuff

Elizabeth (10:20):
I will go see Wicked.
So this is the year for movies,I guess.
I'm going to, the movie theatergods unite.
Liz will be there at leastthrice this year.
So news, there's the news of theday, hot off the press.
Oh my God.
Well, any Hizu, uh, I think I, Ifelt like I just kind of came in
like full steam ahead in theintro, because like I said,
nervous energy, uh, but I, Italked about pride month For

(10:45):
those who don't know, it's PrideMonth, or the tail end of Pride
Month.
And it just, I've been listeningto a lot of my podcasts that,
you know, are talking aboutdifferent things, having
different themes about, inrelation to Pride Month, and
sexuality's been a very commonone, and it's been enjoyable to
listen to, and it just got methinking, like, What is
sexuality?
Like, what is, you know, what issexuality?

(11:05):
But you know,

Alex (11:06):
I mean, what even is sexuality?

Elizabeth (11:09):
what happened was, see what happened was, I started
listening to Chop, see whathappened was I started listening
to Chopperone, and uh, it justsent me into a tailspin,

Alex (11:18):
I, I imagine you are not the only one.

Elizabeth (11:20):
yeah, I'm just like, whoa, what's happening, I don't
even know what's happening tome, I don't even know, like, and
also, I don't know when the lasttime I fangirled this hard over
like a musician, like, it'sdefinitely been some time, so.
Like maybe when Cardi B firstcame out with like her big
mainstream album I was like ohjust listen to that album back
to back all over night and day24 7.

(11:43):
That's how I feel right now.
I can't stop Chaperone and it'slike just brought up a lot of
thoughts in myself and like notthoughts like uh realizations
but like oh acceptance andthings like that and um.
I don't know.
Like I said, you're my, mygirlie to shoot the shit with.
So I was like, well, let's justopen the can of worms and see
where we land.
So that's, that's kind of theplan for today's episode is.

(12:04):
So, you know, for those who areregular city in between, you're
probably like, Oh, we're goingto talk about sexuality today.
Okay.
And you know what?
I'm a grownup according to mylicense and my birth
certificate.
So we're going to talk aboutsexuality cause we can.
Now, when I'm watching aBridgerton sex scene, and I get
very bashful and have to closemy eyes, that's a different
story.
Oh, God.

Alex (12:26):
I, I seriously am like the last person to the Bridgerton
bandwagon.
I have got to see an episode ortwo.
Does it have gay people in it?
Cause I really like that.
Love.

Elizabeth (12:37):
it does, yes, it does have, um, it does have gay
people, and I feel like they'resetting up their first kind of
like main queer romance.
Um, maybe, I don't, I don't knowif it'll be the next season or
what, but they're setting it up.
It's good.
I mean, it's not like the bestthing ever, but it's, it's like
a sexually charged Regencydrama.
So, I mean, what's not to likeabout that?
But I will say, side note, QueenCharlotte, which is like in the

(13:00):
Bridgerton universe, which islike the younger love story of
like the queen in the series.
That was amazing.
okay.
I was shocked by how hard Icried at the end of that one.
Like, I mean, audibly sobbed.
anyways, I digress So yeah,there's some queer
representation

Alex (13:18):
I

Elizabeth (13:18):
just gonna get better I guess or and get more inflated
not inflated, but you know whatI mean I feel like I'm just
being very awkward

Alex (13:24):
It's just going to get gayer.

Elizabeth (13:26):
Yeah, there we

Alex (13:26):
say the things, man.
Like, Let it out.
your

Elizabeth (13:31):
I just I feel I just I

Alex (13:33):
fly.

Elizabeth (13:34):
Yeah, right.
But I'm like, I don't want tooffend anybody.
And I'm like, okay, can I makegay jokes?
I don't even know.
But with that said, I was like

Alex (13:44):
Mm

Elizabeth (13:44):
thinking about just when was the first time I even
thought about sex or sexualityor like those kinds of feelings.
And sorry, mom, for if you'relistening.
Um, I remember I was like, Hmm,way too young, probably like
eight.
I'd say eight years old, eightor nine, and I would stay up
late when I knew she was asleep.
See, this is when you made mesleep in my own bed, mom.

(14:06):
Yeah, this is what happened.
You put a TV in my room.
I'm just kidding.
I'm just kidding.
But I mean, there was TV in myroom, but

Alex (14:11):
I wasn't allowed a TV in my room, and let me tell you, I
would have gotten in some moretrouble.

Elizabeth (14:16):
well, this is probably why children don't have
TVs in their room.
So I would watch MTV because I'dlove the music videos.
This is also like at the heightof NSYNC and Backstreet Boys.

Alex (14:26):
Mm hmm.

Elizabeth (14:27):
like, you know where this is going.

Alex (14:29):
Yeah, but mine's gonna go real weird, so I can't wait to
tell you.

Elizabeth (14:32):
Oh god, and I remember there would be this
show that would come on late itwould come on like Midnight
time.

Alex (14:39):
Oh, wait.

Elizabeth (14:40):
And it was called Undressed.
And I'm sure it was like shit TVbut it was just like a sexually
charged like high school,college, drama and it was like
every type of like sexualrelationship you could ever
think of like gay,

Alex (15:00):
that's like HBO, right?

Elizabeth (15:01):
Right.
Exactly.
It was like cheating.
It was like affairs.
It was just like sexuallycharged, like lovers, like
whatever.
It wasn't just like LGBTQ, youknow, queer, but it was, it was
just sex, but it was thischild's first exposure to All of
it.
Like even, even the same sex,even like, and I was fascinated

(15:24):
by all of it.
And I didn't understand what washappening, what I was feeling.
Um, I think I was like nineyears old.
So like, it was like rightbefore you really start to get
into puberty.
So I guess maybe this was justmy runway, but I also grew up on
too long.
And I think that not just

Alex (15:40):
My

Elizabeth (15:40):
all of my fashion, but like, I watched that movie
when I was like five and Ihaven't stopped since I could
recite it

Alex (15:47):
So good.
It's so good.
Man, that I didn't even I didn'teven like, realize at that point
when I was watching Too Wong Futhat And so many of my moments
are not realizing it until I, itwas like, hit me in the face,
you know what I mean?
Like, but I digress.
The point is, is I love To WongFu and that, I'll just would

(16:07):
watch that over and over andover again.
I loved it.
So

Elizabeth (16:10):
I loved it so much.
And like at five and six, I hadno idea they were men.
I had no idea.
Like, you know, my naive, I hadno idea and I would just watch
it.
And I thought they were justreally big women and I loved
their clothes and theirattitudes.
Cause like, I got none of thenuance when I was that

Alex (16:25):
right?
Right.

Elizabeth (16:27):
And then you have RuPaul coming down like out of
the ceiling and a skin tightrebel flag dress.
And you're like,

Alex (16:33):
amazing.

Elizabeth (16:34):
yeah, no.

Alex (16:35):
Amazing.

Elizabeth (16:37):
we should, man, I wish you were here.
We can watch that movietogether.
I would love it.
Uh, but yeah, so those werelike, you know, my first kind of
exposures to sexuality.
I mean, I was definitely thatgirl in high school that learned
in the senior, it was senioryear or junior year high school,
in the chorus room when we werewaiting to sing during a

(16:58):
recital.
When two of the guys explainwhat a blow job was to me.
So like, you know, I've had someof those stereotypical like
experiences of like, you know,Oh, she learned not a band camp,
but a chorus recital.
But

Alex (17:11):
And chorus recital.

Elizabeth (17:13):
it is what it is.
And I've always just askedquestions and I'm an only child.
So I didn't have a sibling tolike learn from and, you know,
and.
I definitely wasn't gonna ask mynana and my papa about shit like
that and my mom was a single momworking So it's like I just
learned on my own and some Of itwas maybe a little too fast and
some of it was like a little tooslow because like I saw all this

(17:34):
But I didn't understand it sothen like when I had my own
experiences there was likeImmaturity and naivety to it
because i'm like well, I don'tlike wait I do this.
I don't

Alex (17:43):
Well, and, and not only that, but you have no like
comparison, right?
So this is kind of junkie trashTV and this is your first, Like
exposure to different types ofrelationships other than, so
like this is the first queer

Elizabeth (17:56):
was.

Alex (17:57):
that you were seeing.
And I imagine that it was not,Uh, representative of most queer

Elizabeth (18:05):
Oh, no, it was very much like softcore porn, but
like

Alex (18:08):
Yeah.
Yes.

Elizabeth (18:09):
like the nudity aspect of it.
I can't believe i'm admittingthis on the podcast.
Oh my god.
There's definitely some Somepeople who i'm like, sorry guys,
please you can still look me inthe eye when I see you next time
um, but anyways

Alex (18:21):
you tell me, you told me about, um, when you, uh, would
go through like MTV and VH1 andlike, look at, look at the music
videos and of course they wereall very sexy and sexually
charged and stuff like that, um,as they still are, but.
I remember this one particularvideo that I could not get
enough of.
So like I'd come home, sorry,mom, I would come home and be

(18:43):
like, okay, I'm going to get onVH1 so that way I can wait for
the Aerosmith crazy episode orthe Aerosmith crazy music video
where Liv Tyler and AliciaSilverstone are skinny dipping
in the lake.
And also that like, It's theirdad in the band, so that's weird
that he would, like, sexualizehis daughter.

Elizabeth (19:06):
that is so fucking weird.
Ew

Alex (19:08):
so that's really weird.
But I was just all about seeingLou Tyler get naked in Skinny
Dip, even though you didn't seeanything, but I wasn't allowed
to watch it.
So, like, very much tried tosneak it in.
And then, of course, there's,like, the, we didn't have HBO.
So I'd be going through likewith the, um, you know, trying
to get on the channel forwhatever in between channels.

(19:30):
So you could see a glimpse of aboob or something.

Elizabeth (19:33):
You're hilarious.
You were hilarious.
So I wasn't even that sneaky.
I was, well, I was thinking withthe MTV, but that was it.
Like I was like, I found thatand I was so innocent.
I had no idea like anything elselike that existed.
Right.
I just saw, I found this reallyinsanely crazy TV show and it's
like, what am I watching?
I don't know, but it's making mefeel weird things, but this is

(19:54):
weird.
I don't know.
But then this is also the girlwhen I was like seven had a
crush on Paul Hogan, who, forthose who don't know, was
Crocodile Dundee.

Alex (20:05):
Oh my god.

Elizabeth (20:05):
Yeah, and he's also like, you know, quadruple my
age.
So, you know, maybe there's somedaddy issues wrapped up into
that.
Like why was that my six yearold, seven year old crush?
And not like Jonathan TaylorThomas or something, but like
whatever.

Alex (20:19):
Amazing.
Amazing.

Elizabeth (20:21):
you know, I should like, we all know Jeff Goldblum
is my boo thing.
And one day he will be on thispodcast and it will be amazing.

Alex (20:29):
feels the same way.
And my bestie for that matter.

Elizabeth (20:31):
God, is just, that's something Stan just accepts
about me.
He's like, ah, yeah, I get it.
I

Alex (20:37):
Yeah.
He's just a big ol weirdo andeverybody loves that.

Elizabeth (20:40):
weirdo.
He's such,

Alex (20:41):
It's everybody wants to also be a weirdo.
Everybody wants to just flytheir freak flag,

Elizabeth (20:48):
Own your weird.
Own your

Alex (20:49):
And when you're weird,

Elizabeth (20:50):
Own your fashion.
Own your hair.
Own your personality.
Own your sexuality.
Own your food preferences.

Alex (20:58):
Let people cringe,

Elizabeth (20:59):
Let me film a video in public and not look at
myself.
Like, look at me.
Cause like, I'm really trying towork on that, but god dang it.
I'm concerned you're all staringat me, even though I know you're
not.
I know you're not.
Geez.
Anyways, Paul Hogan.
So there's that.
And side note, that's anothermovie that I watched
religiously.

(21:20):
And I would, like, walk aroundand, like, do this to animals.
Because I think I could, like,you know, get their attention.
Because that's what he would do.
I'm so weird.
God bless.
It's amazing I

Alex (21:27):
Oh, man.
When I was like eight or nine, Ithink it was maybe around there.
My cousin, she had just comeover and I think we had just met
or like we were just introducedto one another very recently and
she was always the type to like,uh, you know, I was the type to

(21:50):
follow along a troublemaker andshe was the type to be a
troublemaker.
So one time my mom posted on us,um, while I'm at the keyboard on
AOL chat rooms.
Right?

Elizabeth (22:02):
Oh, definitely had my Yahoo experience there.
God.

Alex (22:06):
and I was pretending to be gay.

Elizabeth (22:10):
I was trying to find Daniel Radcliffe because Harry
Potter had just come out and Iwas like convinced that the guy
in the chat room knew Daniel andhe was gonna connect us.

Alex (22:22):
I'm so

Elizabeth (22:22):
my handle or like my name was Little Miss Goody Two
Shoes, which is hysterical tothink about.

Alex (22:28):
Mine must have been a real emo, I'm sure.
Like, it was just, like, verysad and repressed.
I just wanted to make sureeverybody knew I was very emo,

Elizabeth (22:38):
Yeah, you know, yeah, wow, my mother is probably
listening going, wow, I probablytrusted you a little too well,
didn't I kid?
But you know, everyone has theseexperiences like in some way
shape or fashion on their ownscale and it's part of growing
up.
It's a part of going, oops, Ishould have looked at that.
Oops, I did it anyway.
And then you're like, well, whatdoes that mean?
Look at your eggplant.

(22:58):
I don't know.
Like, you know,

Alex (23:01):
I'm real scared to start having open and honest
conversations with my daughter.
Let me tell you why.
I mean, we already do right atage appropriate, but like, I
really, really want to be verysex positive.
Um, with her and that scares theshit out of me,

Elizabeth (23:17):
Yeah, don't ask me.
I have no kids.
I don't have to think about thatyet.

Alex (23:20):
have this conversation and not show you my face because I
cannot hide my facial reactionsand I need to, when my kids
telling me something that is,It's gonna freaking make my
heart drop to the bottom of mystomach and I gotta be cool
about it.
I'm scared.

Elizabeth (23:37):
Maybe there's like books that, like, maybe there's
like children's books that likehelp you address it.
Like, you

Alex (23:41):
I feel like I just gotta be.
Yeah.

Elizabeth (23:43):
let's call Chapel Rowan.
I mean, seriously, I'm

Alex (23:45):
I'm, I feel like Chapel Rowan will know.

Elizabeth (23:47):
Oh, God

Alex (23:48):
ask for recommendations.

Elizabeth (23:49):
so obsessed with her.
It's not even healthy.
It's not healthy.
And it's also not healthy.
How quick it happened like this.
We're on like week two.
So like it's very soon.
It's when she came out in thatfricking statue of liberty
outfit at the governor's ball.
I was like, who the hell is thiswoman?
Like, Oh my God.

Alex (24:06):
love it.

Elizabeth (24:07):
that's when the affair began.
So even Stan's humming

Alex (24:10):
It's all down from there.
Downhill from there, yeah.

Elizabeth (24:13):
sings it.
I was singing it all weekend.
Now my mom likes her.
Yeah.

Alex (24:16):
My best friend, who's straight and has an arrow, she
would love to be a lesbianbecause, let's be honest, most
men suck.
Um, so she's like, she wouldlove to be a lesbian.
Absolutely not.
She's very much, unfortunately,attracted to men.
And, um, she Loves Chaplone andis singing it in her car like,

(24:39):
like she's the biggest less sheever was.
Just blasting

Elizabeth (24:44):
some of the lyrics are like,

Alex (24:46):
can't imagine life without her girlfriend.
And just

Elizabeth (24:54):
all right, there's about to be a not safe for work
lyric, but there is literally alyric in one of her songs.
She's like knees deep, get eatenout in the passenger side.
And I'm just like, and then I'mlike, you know what?
Hell yeah.
Because there are so many malesingers that sing about shit
like that.
And it's just, I've never hearda mainstream song about a woman
singing about a woman.

(25:14):
And it's like.
You know, hot and great.

Alex (25:18):
about your sexuality, which

Elizabeth (25:20):
Exactly.
And I think that's, what's soalluring about her music is
like, and I think that's why Iwas empowered for this
conversation because like, sheis not about being a lesbian,
it's just about owning yoursexuality so authentically and
pandering just such a wideaudience.
Like I was on Tik TOK and theycall it like, um, pink pony
grandpa or something.

(25:40):
And it's like some oldergentlemen, like, I mean, gosh,
he's gotta be like, 70s orsomething, maybe 80s, just
singing every word to pink ponyclub like at one of her
concerts.
And I'm just like, is this hergrandpa?
Which I don't think it is.
I think

Alex (25:55):
Is this her grandpa?

Elizabeth (25:56):
like, it's just, I don't know.
And like I said, like I got Stansinging her, I got my mom
singing her.
I have so many friends who areobsessed with her right now.
Like, and, and she is singingabout fucking sexual, very
sexually, literally almost.

Alex (26:11):
have been doing for eons.

Elizabeth (26:15):
That song, Picture You, that's so beautiful, is
about, like, pleasing yourself.
And, like, I listened to thelyrics and I was like, This
feels vaguely sexually charged.
And I started, like, listeningto the lyrics even more, cause
it's a really pretty song, seemslike a ballad.
And I'm like,

Alex (26:30):
Little love ballads to yourself.

Elizabeth (26:32):
my fire.
I'm like, Oh my God, is thisabout like pleasing yourself?
And I'm like, Oh,

Alex (26:35):
Is this about me?

Elizabeth (26:37):
no.
Oh my God.
But like, you know, you just,she goes there and it's like
still somehow not inappropriate.
Like, I mean, it is definitelydon't let your children listen
to it, but like, I don't know.
It's just, she's awesome.
Um, and you know, in the spiritof pride month, I was like, I
want to talk about sexuality.

(26:57):
And.
owning sexuality.
How did we learn aboutsexuality?
And I'm sure anyone listening,you probably had a different
path to learning to like, didanybody really have a birds and
a bees conversation?
And also did it end and beginthere?
You know?

Alex (27:14):
Yeah, we did.
We did.
My mom, we had birds and bees.
I mean, obviously it wasspecific.
I mean, not obviously, but my,it was very like specific
around, um, heterosexualrelationships between cis
people.
Like, there was norepresentation in that
conversation.
It was kind of just theclinical, this is how, how

(27:35):
baby's made, this is how yourperiod happens, which I've
already had to explain to Riley,the period situation.
Yeah, she's very curious.
And so I, you know, when sheasks the questions, I just gotta
take a deep breath and go.
Well, let me tell you about howa period happens and how babies

(27:55):
come out of you.
So far, you've not asked abouthow they get there.
And I'm not pushing the subject,let me tell you what.

Elizabeth (28:02):
you sounded like a child book.
You're like, okay, class.
So a menstrual cycle, call meMrs.
Flo.
Holy

Alex (28:14):
my god.

Elizabeth (28:15):
I'm dead.
That's funny.
Oh my God.
well, have fun with that.
Glad, you know, I haven't,obviously I'm not a mom, so I
don't have to worry about thoseconversations, but I'm more
concerned with if I have a boyhaving that conversation of
like, all

Alex (28:29):
I mean, yeah,

Elizabeth (28:31):
I'm like, I'm gonna keep you home until you're 18.
And then, tell, yeah, thenyou're on your own.
No, just kidding.

Alex (28:38):
you literally have to do like, especially with kids who
are assigned male at birth,right?
They are taught in society tobehave a certain way, right?
Boys will be boys.
Whether or not your parents areteaching you that, That society
in general is teaching you that.
The media is teaching you that.
And so, like, um, like, we haveto be really, really active with

(29:03):
our boys, with our children whoare assigned male at birth.
Um, and teaching them anti rapethings.
You know what I mean?
Like, we have to teach them notto be rapists because Our
society teaches differently.
And so it's really importantthat we're having those
conversations.
So when I was pregnant, I wasvery nervous to have a boy, not
only for that, but to even have,make a decision around

(29:25):
circumcision without having anypersonal experience.
That was really nerve wracking.

Elizabeth (29:29):
And I feel like that Reddit thread would be a little
concerning.
So it's like, interrupt your ownlike risk.

Alex (29:35):
Yeah.

Elizabeth (29:35):
gracious.
Um, and it's like, it'ssomething society teaches them
to, you know, I don't want to goand say society encourages that,
but it's, they don't disciplineit.
And there's no like, you know, Idon't know, like, we could,
that's a whole otherconversation that we could like
snowball into, but I feel like,I don't remember really having a

(29:58):
birds and the bees conversation.
I feel like I learned everythingfrom health class, which that's
like terrifying and people, youknow, and I feel like I was a
little bit of a late bloomer,um, because of that.
And yeah, I guess I let thatfreak flag fly when I got to
college and that's when I hadother experiences and like, you
know, just.
Tried everything, I guess youcould say, for lack of better

(30:20):
words.
But, um, it's just interestingwhere we are now as a society,
and you have Chaperone, like,just screaming her sexuality
from the rooftops.
And, and, you know, and like,it's not even about that part.
It's just the thing that I wantto talk about is, it's like,
that's just who she is.
something that I bought intothat, it's just like, It was way

(30:41):
into my obsession with herbefore I realized, Oh, is she a
lesbian?
Because like, I didn't even careabout that.
I, it wasn't even something Inoticed because where we are as
a society where we're gettingto, and I definitely know, like,
it's not everybody, but where weare generally getting to is
like, it's not about a label.
It's just a part of you.
It's an expression.

(31:02):
It is just, uh, a livedexperience and that's where I
like, and I will, I'll tellmyself I am 33 years old and I
was like, do I even know whatthe definition of queer means?
Because like I was reading aninterview with them I was like,
well, she seems very much like alesbian, so let me just see, is

(31:22):
this a different thing?
And it says queer is a allencompassing term, at least now,
I know it was not, not in

Alex (31:30):
well, it's supposed to always has been, but then
there's people who have taken itand used it as a slur, just like
many other terms, right?
Um, which is not cis, cis is nota slur, just for anybody who's
wondering.
Anybody who's listening to ElonMusk out there, lunatic.

Elizabeth (31:48):
wait, what did he say?

Alex (31:49):
That cis is a slur! He's like

Elizabeth (31:52):
Like cisgender?

Alex (31:53):
cisgender, like, on Twitter, he's like banning the
word cisgender because he thinksit's a slur.
And I'm like, my friend, it justmeans you're the same sex as you
were assigned at birth, I don'tunderstand what your issue is.

Elizabeth (32:06):
yeah, about yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well.
I'm also just like how, that'slike a real word, so I'm just
trying to figure out how it's aderogatory term and like why he
views it that way.
But that's, that's, I'm justtrying to understand his logic
there, that makes no sense, but

Alex (32:19):
Well, and that's the thing, is it doesn't make any
sense, and the logic is, let's,let's, let's, yeah.

Elizabeth (32:28):
That, yeah, okay.

Alex (32:29):
Again, another rabbit hole.
God, we could talk for hours, Itell you

Elizabeth (32:32):
though, but I, I looked up queer and it was, you
know, silly to find out, it'slike an umbrella term, it
catches all, encompasses all,and it's basically, for me it's
like a lack of label, and that'swhat I like about it, It's just,
it really is for anybody whoisn't just straight as a pencil,

(32:53):
you know, that doesn't even meanromantically interested and same
sex or whatever sex.
It doesn't necessarily mean, Oh,you're sexually attracted.
I mean, it could just mean likeyou have thoughts of the same
sex and it begins and endsthere.
Like, and it kind of blew mymind of like, Oh, it's just.
So inclusive, I don't even know.

(33:14):
And it had me thinking like, Ithink I'm queer.
And then I started talking tosome friends about it and like,
Oh, by that term, I think I'mqueer too.
And I was like, and you know,I'm married, I am sexually
attracted to men and I amromantically interested in men.
but I mean, I've messed aroundwomen before and I didn't hate
it, but like, that's kind ofwhere, again, begins and ends

(33:35):
there.
But.
I don't know.
Wow.
Yeah, so I'm just thinking ofsome of the people listening to
this right now, and I feel likeI'm blushing.
I am like, Mom, you can turn itoff.
It's okay.
Um, I'm just like, thank God mygrandmother doesn't listen to
this.
Dear God.
Then, she probably doesn't evenknow what a podcast is.
Thank goodness there.

(33:55):
Um, but, um, With that said,this isn't like a episode on I'm
going to rehash like myexperiences because like, you
know, you could save that forthe book one day, but, it's more
of just having a conversationaround like something that one I
think is a little taboo to talkabout and I just want to make it
like.
Hey, it doesn't have to be TedBoo, it's just a part of who you

(34:15):
are and like, I, I'm notlabeling myself necessarily
anything, but it does feel kindof cool to be like, oh, so
that's what that is, oh, okay.
Because of course, like, I wentdown a rabbit hole of articles
and things and there's a lot ofmicro labels Alex, holy fucking

Alex (34:29):
Well, I was just going to say labels are so interesting.
Labels can be really helpful in,like, identifying your own
experience and talking aboutyourself in a, having language
to talk about your identityexperience, right?
Whether it be your gender, yoursexuality, um, your romanticism,

(34:50):
any of that.
Um.
Yeah.
But then they can also be verylimiting, right?
And so some of us will use a lotof labels, some of us will use
none, some of us will useumbrella labels, like queer.
and it's, it's, it really justdepends on the person on how
you, like, how you identify withit.

(35:11):
If it's helpful, use it.
If it's not, don't.
Period.
You know what I mean?
I think there's, there'shelpfulness in finding your
people.
You know what I mean?
Um, and then again, there's thelimiting aspect of it is, am I
really finding my people?
Because am I putting myself inthis box?
Because I feel like I have toput myself into a box.
We

Elizabeth (35:35):
it'd be like, you were just saying that.
And like, I say that as a joke,I'm not trying to make fun of
anybody with who, cause like, Ithink the point is you can have,
you can use 12 different labelscause I swear to gosh, there are
like 27 layers to it or youcould just be human.
You could just be queer.
You could just be whatever thecase may be.
I mean, one could argue beingqueer, like, maybe you, you've

(35:57):
had multiple partners at once, Ithink queer is a representation
of a spectrum, in my opinion,and I'm not, and I don't mean,
that's not ignorant to say,

Alex (36:06):
No, no, no, not at all.
I mean, it is a spectrum.
Queerness defines a wide varietyof identities, and it's
basically just not going withthe social norms.
So whatever goes the grain ofsocial norm is, is considered
queer, right?
And then there's a zillion underumbrellas, LGBTQQIA.
And then you've got all of your,all of your gender identity

(36:29):
umbrellas.
You've got all of your sexualityumbrellas, your romanticism
umbrellas.
Let's not forget our asexual,brothers and sisters and
siblings here, who don't havesexual desire and they're still
included in this queerness,right?
Or demisexual people, likethere's just such an array of
identities because there's anarray, very wide spectrum of

(36:52):
experiences and nobody's isreally going to be exactly the
same.

Elizabeth (36:57):
right, and I think that's the beauty of it, and,
self love is a pillar here,right, I always talk about that,
and this conversation is just tokeep pushing the needle,
bridging the gap of acceptanceand love no matter what.
Because I know there's a lot ofshame still attached because
there is such a binaryconversation around this and I'm
trying to always push it's no,it's a spectrum.

(37:17):
It is a rainbow, you know,literally and figuratively.
And the more boxes you putyourself in, the more anxieties
they create.
So I just want to embrace likeyou and your uniqueness.
And like if that involves 12labels, cool, good for you.
If it just like allows you toaccept, okay, I'm different.
Like, that's great.
That's all I want to.
So it's, I don't know.

(37:37):
I just want to have moreconversations around things that
make people feel shame andisolated from society because
the society is what drove thisto begin with.
Like, I know maybe you're tiredof hearing the, uh, it's a
societal construct, but like, Ihate to beat a dead horse, but

Alex (37:54):
But it is.

Elizabeth (37:56):
And,

Alex (37:56):
let's not do it.

Elizabeth (37:58):
And, you know, like we evolve as humans, like
socially, like we are sociallyevolving.
Like that is definitely a thing.
And I'm, there are, we're atdifferent stages of it, right?
Like for sure.
I assume as we progress in thatdirection, it'll be more of an
awareness and, and acceptance,but just own who you are and
that should be okay.
And you don't need to worryabout.

(38:19):
whether you're sexuallyattracted to this person, but
romantically interested in thisperson, like who cares?
It doesn't matter.
It doesn't make you weird.
It doesn't make you different.
It doesn't, it's just,

Alex (38:28):
And I would say, like, it absolutely matters to your point
earlier about, like, like, yes,we need visibility.
We need people talking about whothey are

Elizabeth (38:37):
was what I was trying to say.

Alex (38:38):
for

Elizabeth (38:38):
I could not

Alex (38:39):
you know, but at the same time, you're welcome at the same
time, like, We think about theterm coming out and is it really
even necessary anymore?
Because that says to us, it saysto us, if I have to come out,
that means I'm different thanwhat everybody else expects.
Um, I found this quote

Elizabeth (38:57):
I know that's easier said than done, too.
Just FYI to anyone listeningwho's had hellacious coming out
stories and

Alex (39:03):
Multiple times, I'm sure.
Like as you, as you evolve, asyou understand yourself more.
I know I've like, I just stoppedcoming out because I like, I'm
like,

Elizabeth (39:12):
I was going to ask, do you want to share your story?
when you were sharing your storyearlier, it sounds like you kind
of already were always drawn tosame sex.
So,

Alex (39:19):
Absolutely.

Elizabeth (39:20):
your journey or acceptance?

Alex (39:23):
when I was 13 too.
Like, and I, we would holdhands, but I'd be like, but I
like boys.
And I would get so, so I woulddate a lot of boys and like as
soon as we would get together.
I would lose interest.
so it was like really about thechase for me.
And I remember this time wheremy mom, I was so offended
because my mom was asking aboutmy beau.

(39:43):
And I didn't know she meant likeB E A U, like your guy, you're,
you're, you're a boo, you'recute.
cute bow is like, um, beautifulor attractive in French, right?
I thought she meant boyfriend ofthe week, B O W.

Elizabeth (39:58):
That's hilarious.

Alex (40:01):
So, like, I, I, I literally was just, I mean,
comphet was real for me for, youknow, The first 18 years of my
life.
And then I went to a party and Ikissed a girl and I was like
the, all of the, the fireworkswent off and all of the
streamers and everybody waslike, well, everybody in my head

(40:23):
was like, Oh my

Elizabeth (40:25):
everywhere.
I'm dead.
I love you.
Like everyone, you're like, ohwait, well everyone in my head,
but that's okay.
Thank you.

Alex (40:35):
the light bulb going

Elizabeth (40:37):
Right, right, right.

Alex (40:38):
it was bananas.
Cause I was like.
Oh my god, this makes so muchsense as to why I've always
liked girls and I keep trying tomake out with them.

Elizabeth (40:51):
So you said you were 18 when you finally had that
experience?
Wow.

Alex (40:56):
yep, and then I moved up to Flagstaff for like a good,
uh, nine months and sort of likehad my foundational, uh, college
time there with a whole group ofqueer people and, um, It was one
of the best experiences of mylife.
It was very short lived, but Iwas doing some reading recently

(41:18):
about queer people and how, theysort of experience this time,
this, they experience timedifferently when you come out,
or sometimes when you come out.
And that is like, you almost,you're now, you're free to be
yourself, right?
And you almost go through thislike second puberty.
And.
You are in this very pivotaltime in your life.

(41:39):
So that nine months that I spentliving two hours north was one
of the most foundational timesof my life that I remember so
vividly.
Uh, more so than any other timeperiod in my life.
It's, it's, it just like, it's,it's like I, it just have
cemented that timeline and itfeels so much bigger in my life

(42:00):
than many other time, manyother.
Portions of my life.
So, you know, it was, it, afterI came out, it was just really
incredible immersing myself intoqueer culture and kind of
gaining sort of a foundation on,um, queer and, feminist views,
allyship, that kind of thing.

(42:20):
Yeah.

Elizabeth (42:21):
well not everyone, I need to stop generalizing, I
keep saying everyone, but I feellike a lot of people, myself
included, had a lot ofawakenings in college, like
that's where I took a philosophyclass, and Oh God, that opened
my brain up to so many thingsand now, you know, that's why
I'm always like existentialismis my religion, but I don't

Alex (42:40):
Mm hmm.

Elizabeth (42:41):
regardless, um, I, I digress, but college was like
the time where you're like, Oh,cause I mean, as it should be
like your time to explore, butlike think differently, think
bigger, think objectively,challenge in your beliefs
because you've lived in such abubble.
So.
I guess you were 18 as you'resaying it, when finally the

(43:01):
light bulb went off,

Alex (43:02):
Yeah, even though like I was before that I was like in
the gay straight alliance and Ihad a t shirt That said ally
with a straight couple on the

Elizabeth (43:09):
right?
Absolutely.
Always, always.
I was a theater kid.
I was always like, know, I mean,I grew up on two Wong Fu I, I
clearly was an ally before Iknew what an ally was like.
That's why I'm like, who cares?
Like, just let them live theirlife.
Like why does it matter to you?
You know what

Alex (43:24):
Exactly exactly

Elizabeth (43:27):
of gross if you think about like why people care too
much.
Like, so you really care whatthese people are doing in their
bedroom.
Like that's kind of like gross.

Alex (43:32):
exactly rot.
I got this quote here by rodneys williams jr He's a storyteller
strategist and an organizer andhe says with coming out We give
others the opportunity to rejectour visibility as if it's their
choice.
So I thought that really hit mebecause I'm thinking about it
and I'm thinking about comingout and like how sometimes we

(43:54):
feel like we have to come outbecause it's different than what
society says.
Right.

Elizabeth (44:00):
somebody and I agree with everything you're saying.
However, we know that maybefamilies or friends or, or
communities are not accepting.
So sometimes coming out is a wayof like a safety net, I think to
like own your truth

Alex (44:16):
Absolutely.

Elizabeth (44:17):
that's also shame on society for, you know, having to
enable that net to begin with.
But as I said earlier, like, Ihope that I think we're tracking
hopefully one day in thatdirection where it's not about a
label, it's about just beinghuman, you

Alex (44:29):
Yeah.
Yes.
And that's the ultimate goal.
And, and of course until then,we have things like having to
come out because people stillhave societal expectations of
us.
But as we go and we, we.
You know, have our futuregenerations.
Let's teach them that you don'tnecessarily have to come out.
People can just be who they are.

(44:49):
You know, you don't even have topick a label.
You can just be you.
Be you.

Elizabeth (44:55):
And you don't even have to come out.
You can just honestly keep it inyour head for as long as you
want.
Or you can

Alex (45:00):
nobody's business, but your own, man.
Yep.

Elizabeth (45:03):
can, I don't know, I was trying to think of an inside
out reference and I was like,you could tell bing bong and I
was like, well, that just gotweird.
I don't even know why I wasthinking that,

Alex (45:10):
No, I love bing bong.
Also, my girlfriend has a bingbong stuffed animal that smells
like cotton candy.

Elizabeth (45:15):
Oh, well, that is interesting.
Did it come smelling like cottoncandy?
Oh, okay.

Alex (45:23):
was like, no, she didn't send it.

Elizabeth (45:25):
Okay.
Like, did you just give us somebody spray?
Like,

Alex (45:30):
it's like, cause you know how bing bong is made of cotton
candy.

Elizabeth (45:33):
Yes, that makes

Alex (45:34):
So the doll

Elizabeth (45:36):
That's such a

Alex (45:37):
or the,

Elizabeth (45:37):
Of course, Disney would make it smell like cotton
candy.
Of

Alex (45:40):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's so cute.
I love it so much.
I just, every time.

Elizabeth (45:46):
You're hilarious.
Oh, you're hilarious.
So, when you came out, was yourfamily accepting?
Did you have a hard time withthat?

Alex (45:54):
Yeah.
I mean, my, my parents werepretty accepting.
My sister was like, Okay, yeah,I know.
Can I go?
Cause I have to do the dishes.
Like when I told her about it,she was like, okay.
And so she was the,

Elizabeth (46:07):
all knew.
We all knew, Alex.

Alex (46:08):
she was the, like, she knew before I knew kind of a
thing.
And she was also like, nobodyhas to come out.
Just be yourself.
That's just how she was, youknow?
Um, and then my family, my, Ithink my mom was really, I don't
think she was upset that, uh,that I'm gay by any means.
I'm sure there was some grievingthat she had to do because when
you have kids, you have an ideaof what their life is going to

(46:29):
look like.
And then when they tell you it'sgoing to look different, that is
something that every parent hasto go through.

Elizabeth (46:33):
I can see that.

Alex (46:34):
but she was also afraid of like how I would be treated and
what things I would have accessto and how hard life would be.
And that was tough.
You know, that was tough for mebecause It was like, Oh, you
know, I was really grateful thatI had this mom who was
supportive and who just really,really cared about my life

(46:55):
experience and, and myhappiness.
I also didn't want to have tobear the burden of those
worries.
but so I instead decided to justdo the best to not only change
my experience, but everybodyelse's around me.
Be the best advocate I can.
You know what I mean?
And she's proud of me.
She's so damn proud of me.

Elizabeth (47:14):
didn't they come to your, um, Art show?
I was talking about artinstallation.

Alex (47:18):
with my hair.
Uh,

Elizabeth (47:19):
It's fabulous and curly and voluptuous.
Your hair looks great.

Alex (47:23):
Thank you.

Elizabeth (47:23):
We're both having good hair days if I say so
myself.
Like my bangs are bang, my bangsare banging and your curls are
um, your

Alex (47:31):
My curls are curling.
This one's kind of doing alittle weird thing.
I'm, I'm not really sure what'shappening here, but it's fine.
It's fine.
Uh,

Elizabeth (47:40):
stan a supportive mom and dad.
So, because I was saying, didn'tthey come to your art show?
They came to your art show,right?
Yeah.

Alex (47:46):
really embarrassing.
Oh my God.
Okay.
I am so grateful again, thatthey went with me.
Do not recommend going to anerotic art show.
With your parents.
Cause that shit is weird,

Elizabeth (48:05):
Oh, I'm

Alex (48:06):
but I'm so glad that they came.
I'm so glad that we got to gotogether and it felt like a
really, like, just reassuranceand, just another example of
their pride for me.
You know what I mean?
Like the unwavering love andpride for me, even if I'm,
drawing naked ladies and beingthe gayest gay I can be.

Elizabeth (48:28):
The theme of this episode lets your freak flag
fly.
So, you know.

Alex (48:33):
fly, man.

Elizabeth (48:34):
you, it's that.
I'm trying to think like mine.
I don't know.
My mom's like, can you not cussas much?
I'm like, fuck no,

Alex (48:40):
No.

Elizabeth (48:41):
I'm just kidding.
I love my mom.
I love my mom.
Sometimes she gets in my head.

Alex (48:44):
cuss, but then she does too.

Elizabeth (48:47):
You know, that's another conversation.
I I get some words areinsensitive and not appropriate,
but why does fuck have to be oneof them?
Because like, I love a good,early get it out.
You're angry.
It's a good solid sound.
So

Alex (49:03):
my kiddo keeps doing it.
And I'm like, you don't do it.
Right.
And I more specifically don't doit in front of other people.
I kind of don't care.
I mean, it's a little cringeywhen my daughter says the F
word, but you know, it'sentirely my fault, but I'm just
like, please, dear God, don'tsay it in front of anybody else.

Elizabeth (49:25):
Yeah, right

Alex (49:25):
So again, trying to hide the face and be not emotionally
react to her saying the F words.
So that way she doesn't want todo it more.

Elizabeth (49:33):
That's what my mom says to me she's like another
piece of advice I can tell youabout having kids don't
Emotionally react when they'retrying to get a reaction out of
you and like when they're doingstuff like that anyways, we are
all over the place

Alex (49:44):
You sure are.

Elizabeth (49:45):
here's our, our moms and our one on ones with our
mothers and

Alex (49:48):
Mm hmm.

Elizabeth (49:49):
were and supportive they were.
Thanks mom!

Alex (49:51):
Thanks, Mom.

Elizabeth (49:53):
Anywho.
what are the key takeaways ofthis episode?
Sexuality is a spectrum.

Alex (49:59):
Fly your freak flag.

Elizabeth (50:02):
Fly your freak

Alex (50:04):
Say it five times fast, though.

Elizabeth (50:05):
No.
Fly your freak flag, fly yourfreak flag, fly your freak flag,
fly your freak flag, fly yourfreak flag.
Oh, I fucked up the fath, thefath one.
I messed up the fath one, thefifth one.
Couldn't do it.

Alex (50:17):
Labels can be helpful, and labels can be limiting.
So Use them at your discretionand you don't have to, if you
don't want to.

Elizabeth (50:26):
X, choose not to answer.
Totally okay.

Alex (50:29):
Yeah, absolutely.

Elizabeth (50:30):
And, uh,

Alex (50:31):
business.
Nobody else's

Elizabeth (50:33):
Sexuality is a spectrum and it is, it's not
something to be ashamed of.
it's not something you have totell anybody and you know, it's
not even a big deal.
So, um, but that, I don't meanthat to say to invalidate your
experience.
because owning your truth is themost important thing out of this
whole episode.
So own your truth and know thatI hope everyone accepts you for

(50:59):
who you are right from the getgo, but if not, there are people
out there and you will find yourcommunities.
So,

Alex (51:05):
Absolutely.
You know, there's a couple ofthings that come to mind a, I
wanted to mention thatrepresentation matters.
That's another takeaway herebecause that.
Really, really makes adifference in how somebody can
see themselves and in theirrelationships and themselves
that kind of thing And then theother thing is I already forgot
it.

Elizabeth (51:24):
where's that train of thought?
Do do do do do do do do do.
Inside out to reference thestream of consciousness.

Alex (51:30):
Yep.
Yep,

Elizabeth (51:31):
going down to the back of the mind right now.

Alex (51:33):
the train has left the station, but um, yeah be
yourself did I already say thething about using labels if you
want to?
And don't, if you don't, there'sa fun song about that.
You guys should Google it.
It's an Australian comic.
Can't remember anything else.
So there you go.

Elizabeth (51:53):
And on that, on that, Love who you love, do what you
want, and, um, don't bring yourparents to erotic, uh, art shows
because things might get weird.
But, you

Alex (52:04):
weird, but if they're there to

Elizabeth (52:05):
again, maybe

Alex (52:06):
suck it up

Elizabeth (52:06):
Yeah, but then again, maybe let them, so, who knows.

Alex (52:09):
It's so nice though.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like it's weird, but it's verynice.
And just like own yoursexuality.
Be you.
Unapologetically and, you know,look for your people because
they're out there.
They're out there.
I remember the last thing.
Sometimes people say I'm toomuch or they say other people

(52:33):
are too much, right?
Especially folks with like ADHDand stuff like that.
Not to get on theneurodivergence thing, but

Elizabeth (52:38):
up hearing that my whole life.

Alex (52:39):
the whole you're too much.
My favorite mind like reframingis go find less.

Elizabeth (52:48):
I literally have a sticker on my laptop that says,
if I'm too much, go find less.
Oh, gosh.

Alex (52:52):
Go.
Find less.
Be yourself unapologetically,and if people cringe, let them
cringe.
That's their bad feelings todeal with.
You don't have to feel, youdon't have to deal with that,
right?

Elizabeth (53:07):
In the words of Casey Musgraves, follow your own
arrow.

Alex (53:11):
Oh man, I love that song.
It's so sweet.

Elizabeth (53:13):
It is sweet.
Love her.
Well, on that note, Alex, Ithink that is, uh, I think that
concludes today's episode.
So where can everyone find you?
Cause, uh, you know, in casethey want to see your art, and
in case they want to see yourhilarious videos.
Like ramblings, not that youramble, but also you are always
posting either hilarious memesor very educational shit where

(53:34):
I'm like, oh, I didn't knowthat.
Okay, good to know.
So, you're

Alex (53:37):
is the rollercoaster of my brain is my Instagram story.
So that's have a fun ride with

Elizabeth (53:42):
she's like a Wikipedia.

Alex (53:43):
at yeah at the dot perpetual dot hobbyist and soon.
I don't know when this episodeis going to come out, but soon I
will have a little more than alanding page on my website
alexarmijo.
com.

Elizabeth (54:00):
Ooh!

Alex (54:00):
So.
I should put a little bit moreout there before you publish
this.
I should work on my website.

Elizabeth (54:09):
Well, you had a landing page, that's impressive
though, that's,

Alex (54:12):
Uh, yeah,

Elizabeth (54:13):
that's starting!

Alex (54:15):
I bought the, uh, domain, alexarmijo.
com.
And I'm like, okay, well, I cando this.

Elizabeth (54:19):
Buying the domain is half the battle.
you've already started.
So there you go.
Snaps for Alex for alreadystarting.
So yeah, I'll go ahead and linkit.
And even if it's a broken linkright now, one day it's going to
work.
So,

Alex (54:30):
right, baby.
That's right.

Elizabeth (54:32):
I'm dead.
That's hilarious.
Well, thank you so much, Alex.
And, um, for those listening,Inbetween, please don't forget
to rate, review, subscribe, andfollow wherever you listen to
your podcasts, includingYouTube.
That's where this little guy'sgonna be.
But yeah, please leave yourgirls some ratings and some
reviews.
Uh,'cause word on the street isI need to grow those.
So yeah, come on, you help meand one of these days I'm gonna

(54:53):
help you.
Hey, I help you each week withlike my hilarity and my
awkwardness.
So there's that and myconfessions apparently.
So there's that too.
So again, sorry mother fortoday's episode.
Um, but uh, you can follow me atthe in-between podcast on
YouTube and TikTok at In DoBetween Pod on Instagram and
then at Elizabeth.
So on that note, Happy PrideMonth, and um, if you haven't

(55:15):
seen 2 Wong Fu, you need to gowatch 2 Wong Fu.
So,

Alex (55:18):
percent right now.
Stop everything you're doing

Elizabeth (55:21):
right now.

Alex (55:22):
right now.

Elizabeth (55:24):
all right, ta ta for now.
Bye!