S6. Ep. 260 Laura Doud: How This Teacher Helps Young Minds

This week we feature Laura Doud with Orange County Public Schools as she speaks to us about education and how much it's changed over the years. 

Episode Transcript

(00:08):
Hi, my name is Isabella Johnston.
I'm the founder and CEO ofEmployers4Change, and today's tip of
the week is about unconscious biasand how that influences our hiring
decisions and our company culture.
For example, blind hiringincreases the likelihood that
women will be hired by 25 to 46%.

(00:29):
White sounding names on resumes get50% more callbacks for interviews
than black sounding names.
48% of HR managers admit biasaffects their candidate choice.
Women applicants are 30% less likelyto receive a callback for an interview.
These are interesting statistics thatare brought to us by squiver.com.

(00:53):
Welcome to The Intern Whisperer.
Our show is all about thefuture of work and innovation.
Today's guest is Laura Dowd with OrangeCounty Public Schools, who oversees
a social media marketing internshipprogram with high school students.
They're learning how to earnwork skills before college.
You know, Laura, I used to work asa high school teacher, middle and
high school teacher, and they used tohave a program, I think it was DECA.

(01:17):
Yes.
Is that the same kind of program?
Yes, I have DECA.
You have DECA.
I run DECA at Dr.
Phillips.
Okay.
So our listeners may not know whatDECA is, , and, but you know, we'll
jump into those five words, but goahead and talk a little bit about.
What DECA is.
So DECA is an associationof marketing students.

(01:37):
, it is a global organization.
We have chapters all around theworld and the students compete in,
, marketing related projects, businessplans, , advertising campaigns.
They also do community service.
, but anything and everything that'sout there in the real world,
there's a case study for it.
There's a test for it.

(01:58):
There's a project that they can do for it.
Ooh.
, when we get finished with the show, I'mgonna ask you how I can participate.
I would love to support DECA.
Obviously, I did not knowit as a global organization.
That's super cool.
Do they focus on things otherthan marketing, , finance,
hospitality, , Creative marketing,they do community service.

(02:19):
, they work with differentcharities, , with the competitions.
We always have our state competition herein Orlando and we always need judges.
Oh, I'd like that.
And I want team Employers4Change,students to win first place.
So I'm gonna need some insight because Iwant these kids to be able to go up there.

(02:40):
And for you, I want you to beable to say, yeah, I had the
winning teams from this school.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So let's make that magic happen.
Okay.
We will.
Okay.
Sounds good.
So, , I always kick off my show with,tell us five words that describe
you and why those five words.
Okay.
So dedicated.

(03:01):
Mm-hmm.
, everything that I am asked to do,I dedicate 110%, , determined to.
Get it done.
Mm-hmm.
, determine to, , do what needsto be done when people ask.
, I know you slipped thesecond word right in there.
Determined and dedicated.
And that's pretty good because there,you know, alliteration is going on there.

(03:21):
I like that a lot.
But the, , other thing about determined,I think every teacher is, and I think
every teacher is dedicated and they aredetermined because they don't wanna see
as the tagline says, no child left behind.
Ri-right.
No child left behind providing'em with the skills that
they need to be successful.

(03:42):
Yeah.
It's so good.
You mentioned independent.
Very independent.
How so example?
Very independent.
, I, I take things on myself and,and try and get 'em done myself.
Very rarely ask for help.
, that's where the determination comes in.
The dedication comes into that as well.

(04:02):
I want to make my own successes, notrely on anybody else to get there.
Yeah, I gotcha.
Observant.
I observe, I'm very quiet.
, I enjoy sitting in the corner ofthe room watching what's going on
around and drawing conclusions andthen going and meeting and talking.

(04:24):
Mm-hmm.
Seeing if those conclusions were right.
Yeah.
Absorb, observing what's going on.
Yeah.
And resilient.
Just have to keep going.
Yeah.
We can't have anything.
Stop us.
Right, right.
Whenever life has handed me, I've justovercome and just keep coming back.
Yeah.

(04:45):
Well those are good skills topass on to students For sure.
And you and I both know, havingbeen in education for a while,
that the thing that students dois they watch everything we do.
They do and they form opinionsquickly, just like a baby does.
They, that baby will know, oh, Ican, I can flip this person and

(05:06):
have them do whatever I want.
Many animals are very goodat astute at doing that also.
But I feel like, , a lot of timespeople dismiss a middle and a high
school student because they think,oh, they're not paying attention.
They absolutely do.
Oh, they they appear thatthey're not listening.
Yeah.

(05:27):
Indifferent, everythingthat you have said.
Yeah.
And that includes your own kids.
And I have to go andremind that to parents.
I'm sure you do too.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Listen, they're, theyhear you loud and clear.
Yes, they do.
Yeah.
That's something that is always valuable.
, so let's talk about youreducational background.
How did you get started into teaching?

(05:49):
What was it that made you say,oh, teaching, that's my jam.
Teaching was not my Gina.
Okay.
It's not my plan.
, when I was in college, I first startedout as a computer engineer major.
Mm-hmm.
And then decided, , this is back in 92,, decided that writing code and it, it

(06:10):
just wasn't what I wanted to do mm-hmm.
For the rest of my life.
So I started looking at different avenuesand, , fell in love with marketing.
So I actually have a degree, , inbusiness administration with
an emphasis on marketing.
Came out from college after double in,dabbling in real estate and timeshare
and, , benefit programs, packages,any, any job that I could possibly

(06:34):
get that had any marketing focusI tried to do before I graduated.
, came back to Orlando.
There was, I love writing.
Mm-hmm.
Took a couple of professionaland technical writing courses.
Orange County Public Schoolshad a job opening for a grant
writer, so I applied for it.
, nothing came of it, but they contactedme and said, Hey, you have a business

(06:56):
degree, we need business teachers.
Are you interested?
And I thought, you know, i-it's stepup and pay and it has full benefits.
Mm-hmm.
And I, my summers off, I waslike, woo-hoo, I'm gonna do that.
Yeah.
, just for a couple years to settle in andreally figure out what I want it to do.
And 25 years later, we'restill in the classroom.

(07:17):
Yeah.
It's very rewarding, I think.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm pretty sure that you are the same.
I think just about all teachers are islike, when you have those kids with you,
I mean, you bond with them right away.
It's literally like having your own.
Kids, but you didn't go throughthe labor of 200, right?

(07:37):
Well, I have to differentiatebecause I call them my kids.
My children.
Yeah.
So if I'm talking about my ownchildren, I call 'em my bio kids.
And the kids at school are just kids.
Ye-yeah.
, one of the kids when I was teaching in theprojects, it said, oh, you don't like me?
And I said, why do you think that?
And they said, well, becauseyou're angry with me.

(07:59):
And they associate that you don'tlike them if you're angry with them.
And I said, Hmm.
So I.
Let me give you this, and I'm pretty sureyou, you've done all of these things,
different words, because, you know, we'vehad these conversations offline too.
I said, so if you break yourgrandmother's favorite dish, does
your grandmother stop loving you?

(08:21):
And they No.
I said, if you did that with your momand you know, you, you made her angry.
Does she stop loving you?
And they said, no.
And these are project kids though too.
So they have rough lives.
And they said, okay, I can be angry,but it doesn't mean I don't like you.
I'm just angry.
And those are two separate emotions,so you don't have to roll it into one.

(08:44):
And they, they got it.
It's like the light bulb went on.
Mm-hmm.
They were 12 year olds.
Well, they ask, , are,why are you mad at me?
I'm not mad at you.
I'm disappointed in you.
Yeah.
Because you're not risingto your true potential.
Mm-hmm.
And, and that's, , that's what upsets methe most with students sometimes is you're
just, you're not giving yourself a shot.

(09:04):
There's so many different ways thatyou can be exactly what you wanna be.
You just gotta take that chanceand live up to that potential.
Yeah.
Do you also remind them it's a lotlike being, , an athletics because
they have to see the prize like anOlympian and go, go for the prize?
Well, a lot of my students, I,I do a sports, recreation and

(09:27):
entertainment marketing program.
Mm-hmm.
So my students see sports.
So a lot of the students are placedin the class 'cause they chose it
thinking that it was a sports class.
Yeah.
, so they already have that athleticbackground because they are athletes.
So, , when I talk about what doyou want to do for the rest of your

(09:47):
life, where do you see yourself?
Mm-hmm.
You know, what is that, thatwinning that you want to, to
do and have happened to you.
We do talk and kind of put it intothat athletic perspective, but the
majority of the time, I'm trying toexplain to my athletes, you need to
have something in addition right.
To that sport.

(10:08):
Because that sport may notalways be there for you.
Yeah.
So that's our biggest conversation.
Yeah.
And there's injuries, there's, you know,you're getting older, you age out of it.
So what is the next career path?
You can't be the co colorcommentary forever, right.
So you gotta have some,I think that's wise.

(10:28):
I do the same thing.
I was an English major.
I always would tell people, listen,liberal arts, make sure that you take
the basic business classes, all theone oh ones that you can, because
those should be your electives, right?
You're gonna be doingsomething on the side.
You're gonna have to, so Wise wisdom,oh, you're kicking it off really
strong with all of these good wisdom.

(10:49):
So have you, have you ever.
Worked outside, like done your ownside business because no teacher
I know ever makes very much money.
They always have a side business.
, I have not done Wow.
, a side business per se, at, at one time.
, the family had a business,but it wasn't, , anything that
was truly profitable to keep.

(11:11):
Mm-hmm.
So, , no, I, I've typicallyfocused on education.
Education.
Mm-hmm.
And so you have your bio kidsand do you have them also,
are they at your same school?
Oh, no, now, yeah.
, my daughter is at a charter school.
Okay.
And my son is at UCF.
So what do you think the advantagesare for our people, listeners that

(11:35):
are considering charter school?
What is the difference between acharter school and also regular?
I.
Public education.
The charter school is technically underpublic education that my career is in.
Mm-hmm.
, so they do receive a portion ofthe funding to fund the school.
, we kept our children in, , the charterschool simply because it was, , what

(11:58):
we perceive to be a better educationand a better environment mm-hmm.
Than what the public schoolwould be able to offer in the
area that we were living in.
, the charter school was developed,, when my son, it opened its doors
when my son was in first grade.
So we said, well, let's, let'sjust try, let's take a chance,
see what, what they have to offer.

(12:19):
, they introduced him to medical throughthe STEM program, so he is now on
a career path with, , kinesiology.
Wow.
So, , it, it just provided him thesmall pond for him to be the big fish.
, He needed.
Mm-hmm.
He needed to.
Yeah.
Classroom size is smaller, it's moreintimate, you know, in many ways.

(12:40):
The kids, you know, don't have to,I know they wear uniforms and that,
I think is also part of like, it, itfeels more elite many ways for the kids.
So I think those are all good things.
They hate the uniforms I know,but like, whoever likes uniforms,
none of them do, but Yeah.
But, , consistency.
Right.

(13:01):
So I think that, , Xander hasfriends that he will, he will
have for the rest of his life.
Mm-hmm.
He went all the way through school.
The legacy of starting andfinishing up at school.
, the athletic programs that theywere able to participate in that
maybe they might not have been ableto participate in a larger school,
, provided great structure for them.
So i-it was just better for m-my children.

(13:24):
Now, I did give each of them a chance andopportunity to come with me to, , my high
school, but, They chose to stay there.
Mm-hmm.
With their friends, which that's good.
Yeah.
That's a really hard age to move kidsaround is like middle and high school.
You know, their, theirpeer group is so important.

(13:45):
So important.
And that's when that separation beginsto happen so that, you know, they, they
aren't always around their parent, youknow, they live with you and all of that.
They don't want to go to school with you.
I read an interesting statistic thatsaid that, , parents needed to have a
wake up call and it said that your kidsare with you for 20% of their life.

(14:07):
That's it, essentially.
18 years, right?
So it's like 18% of their years, butwe'll say 20 because they're still
somewhat connected, because of, , sometype of a career path program.
So when we think about that, wow, 20%,that's a lot of time that you really.

(14:28):
Don't have them in your life.
Right.
But I think that should be partof like a parent 1 0 1 book.
Like they're only with you 20% of yourlife, so make it count for something.
Right.
And there's 18 years, you have toprovide them with enough structure
and guidance so they will be ableto make the right decisions later.

(14:50):
Mm-hmm.
Confidence you have to dothat in the classroom too.
Yeah.
You may have the kid for asemester, a year, , and one hour.
One hour a day.
, no, it's actually 40 minutes a day.
Yeah.
, but you have to educate themand guide them and mold them and
strengthen them into the youngadult that they are becoming.

(15:11):
Yeah.
So, yeah, it's a lot.
It's so much, , to remember whatis one of your best or, or your
most favorite, , impact storiesthat you might have as a teacher.
I didn't prep you for this one,but I'm pretty sure every teacher
always has those, you know, I had onewhere I had a high school kid with
me, and I'll use it as an example.

(15:33):
You're pretty quick though.
But this kid was in, , internationaland he was in the basic classes.
He asked me if he could move up.
He really, his family, they allwanted him to be in like honors level.
And I said, Hmm, tell you what, let's justmake sure that you know you're on track.
, spend one quarter with me just onequarter and make sure that you're

(15:54):
making a's if you're making all A's,I'll go ahead and sign off, and so you
can move up to the next ability level.
So you'll have three quarters.
You know, with that.
They did that and then theymoved up from standard.
They did it again.
'cause they knew how to manipulatethe system, so to speak, and
they moved up into honors.
And it was so rewarding because I go, youknow, we always go to graduation, right?

(16:20):
That kid came and found me at graduationand said, because you let me do this.
I'm the first family member from our,m-my family that's graduating in the
United States and going to collegeand also from an honors program.
So that was like my,my little happy story.
I'm sure you have one even better.
So I, I wouldn't say I have one better.

(16:43):
I just, I have a lot.
Yeah.
So feel free.
, I think, , the, one of the biggestimpacts has been, I call her my daughter.
Mm-hmm.
She's not my daughter.
Mm-hmm.
But, , she came to me and, , she wasworking on a DECA project with a.
A partner, and it wasfalling through pretty bad.

(17:05):
Mm-hmm.
, so we switched some things aroundand by the time, , she graduated
her each year, her goal of successgot higher and higher and higher.
Mm-hmm.
So having her as a youngster and watchingher grow all the way through and then
going to her wedding and still having thatconnection with her and seeing what she's

(17:29):
doing every single day of her life, I, Ithink that's what the impact is for me.
It's not necessarily, , a first place,second place when it's, can I see
how I helped mold this individualinto who they became today, and
are they in a better place mm-hmm.
Than what they were when I started.
So, , a couple of stories, butI keep 'em close to my heart.

(17:53):
Yeah.
And, , Just trying to do thatevery single day and mm-hmm.
And look for it.
I, I think the, the biggestimpact with all of my students,
I don't like the word I'm trying.
Oh, I, me neither.
, and this stems from, which I'm surethat one of the, who influenced you?
My dad, , bless heart.
, he did a thing with a pencil and hewould drop a pencil on the floor and

(18:20):
he would tell us to try and pick it up.
And of course we would always bend over.
We'd pick up the pencil, we'd hand itback, and he would throw it back down and
he'd say, no, try and pick up the pencil.
And we're like, well, whatare you talking about?
We'd pick up the pencil, we'd handit back, and then we throw it down
again and try and pick up the pencil.
So again, we would pick up thepencil and hand it to him, and

(18:40):
he's like, you never tried.
You did it.
You just did it.
It just needs, that is agreat team building exercise.
So, , I use that a lotwith my students as well.
I say it three, 4,000 timesin the school year, you know?
Yeah.
Like my dad said.
And try and pick up the pencil.
We know, we know.
Just do it.

(19:01):
But, , I think that that gives'em a little bit of motivation
to understand you can do it.
Mm-hmm.
Just trying at somethingisn't gonna get you anywhere.
Mm-hmm.
You have to do it.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
It's what I was openingwith the Olympian Olympians.
They don't say, I think Ican, or I believe I can.
They say, I know I can.
Mm-hmm.

(19:21):
Right there.
There's no doubt.
So you have to just 100%.
Yeah.
It's gonna happen.
I love that.
I'm gonna use that.
Say, and I'm gonna reference you everytime I say, oh, try and pick this up.
Dad said, try and pick it up.
Yeah.
I knew as soon as you said it, Iwent, oh, I know where this is going.
It's kind of like, what is it, Yoda?

(19:43):
There is no try.
There's only do.
Right?
Yeah.
So I, I don't know if kids still, Iguess they all like Star Wars maybe.
I don't know.
Yeah, some of them.
So, , how have you seeneducation change over the years?
I'm kind of curious, I was gonna save thisfor the later, but I'm curious like 25
years where it was and where it is now.

(20:06):
, that's a lot of technologychanges for sure.
It is.
It is.
, 25 years ago, I mean, we didhave computers in the classroom.
, yeah.
First position I had was teachingthem Microsoft Word, Excel.
, teaching them how to type.
Mm-hmm.
Teaching them how to keyboarding skills.
Yeah.
, but as we transitioned, you know, we wentfrom paper tests, bubble sheets mm-hmm.

(20:30):
To online tests and reading the questions.
And technology, , doesn't always helpus during those testing situations.
It's not always foolproof.
, but as far as the technology isconcerned, I think it gives them a
lot of easier ways to get things done.
, I, I don't know if they necessarilytake too much advantage of those easier

(20:54):
avenues, but, , it's definitely differentin education because you have to be on
point to see what they're, what theyare using, what they aren't using.
, plagiarism is a big thing.
Mm-hmm.
With technology being out there andbeing able to access the internet,
typing in the question to get to theanswer very quickly instead of actually.

(21:14):
Reading the text or, yeah.
, the progression of the classes online,and we saw a lot of this when Covid hit
and we were all homeschooled technically.
, how we had to utilizethose platforms to educate.
What was successful with that?
What wasn't successful with it?
, the, the student has changeddramatically in 25 years.

(21:37):
The parents have changeddramatically in 25 years.
, administration, it, it's different.
Mm-hmm.
It's different.
, those of us have been in theprofession for quite some time.
, I think one of the main thingsthat we say is, can we just teach?
Mm-hmm.
Can we just please teach?
Let us just do our job.

(21:57):
Mm-hmm.
We know what we're doing.
, so not necessarily.
All negative.
Mm-hmm.
Just, you know, with the timesthat are changing with the
technology available and, andeverybody wants to measure mm-hmm.
Everything, everything has to be measured.
, I am not a test teacher.

(22:17):
Mm-hmm.
I don't give exams.
, I wanna know, can you apply Right.
What you have learned, can you use this?
Can you utilize this in the real world?
But again, I teach marketing, so ifit's happening out there, I need to
make sure they know how to do it.
, they do write papers.
I can, I can read it, but it'sHow would you handle this?

(22:39):
Mm-hmm.
This is your opinion.
You can't do a copy paste job.
Mm-hmm.
, English teachers.
Lots of copy paste jobs.
, they've actually, I've seen some of 'em.
They're like, wow,this, I've read a paper.
I'm like, this is amazing.
I want this kid in my marketing class.
I want, I wanna work with themwith deca writing a paper.
And, , they're like, yeah.
And then this is chat.

(22:59):
Mm-hmm.
So, , education is,it's, it's ever changing.
Right.
And we just have to rememberwe're there for one reason.
Mm-hmm.
And it's not, it's not formeasurability, it's not for
administration, it's not for government.
It, it's to educate a childand direct this child and get

(23:22):
them prepared for their future.
Right.
So, yeah.
I love the fact that you saidit's all about the application.
I think that, , people don't realizethat there were so many courses.
I grew up in Kansas.
, some of my life and in the Midwest,we had courses that they don't have
anymore, but maybe they still dobecause those are more rural areas.

(23:45):
And it started off as home economics andthen it moved into, , a different name.
It was more of, you know, beingable to career path it and to, , I
would call it hospitality andmaybe culinary a little bit.
, so I, I saw those changes happening,but being able to, To make your own
clothes, like that's now in a maker space.

(24:07):
And I go, yeah.
People don't know how to do that.
They don't know how tochange the tires on the car.
You know, they don't, they don'teven, they just have somebody
else shop for them and bring food.
They don't even get to me.
It's the experience of being able togo into a store and touch and feel
and smell and all of those things.
I love that.
Trader Joe's was veryexperiential when you used to

(24:28):
be able to go in and taste food.
Those were really smart marketingmoves because the more of your senses
that you're, you know, creatingsensory experiences for sure, but the
more that the senses are being used,it makes it memorable and something

(24:48):
that're they're more likely to buy.
Abs-absolutely.
When you, when you're able toutilize all of those senses, yeah.
You create that connection.
Mm-hmm.
And then there's that feeling of want,and then you have to have, and then you.
So, yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
So the, , one more thing about Deca,I wanted to go back to that one.

(25:10):
, DECAs been around for a long time.
I don't know if you know how many years,but I'm curious, well, you've been
around 25 years, so we'd say at least 25.
I, I wanna say forties.
Oh, wow.
Even be before that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's been around.
Yeah.
That's really refreshing to seethat, , it's still there because

(25:30):
it is providing hands-on experienceand it is providing career pathing.
So I love those thingsthat are happening there.
We're gonna jump to a coupleof some other questions.
So these questions, I, I love DavidLetterman's interview style, so, okay.
A favorite quote that you live by?
, I don't necessarily liveby a favorite quote.
I live by affirmations.

(25:52):
Ooh, I like that.
So I have, , I have fourbracelets I wear every single day.
And inscribed on each one of the braceletsis a different, , affirmation or quote
that somebody very close has, , saidto me, or, , like the one I have that's
says Dad, , every time I would callhim, he would say, hello, number one.

(26:15):
Oh, 'cause you were the first born.
Well, no.
'cause I like to thinkthat I was number one.
Oh, okay.
N-no.
Yes.
It's, he said, and it's not justbecause you're the first born.
Okay.
So that's what he would say.
He would always say, hello,number one, I've got a, a
don't give up type affirmation.
Mm-hmm.
, when my aunt went through cancer, , withall the chemo, she would, , it's

(26:38):
an affirmation about, you know, thestorm is here, you know, the wind is
going, , it's not blowing the right way.
What are you going to do?
You're gonna adjust yoursails and, and, and go.
With the flu.
, but each one of 'em, just littleaffirmations that I, I like that are,
and near and dear you, you don't know,but now you just, you just gave me

(27:00):
something that I'm went, you know what?
I can get behind that.
And then I have those little reminders.
I have things, my mother hadcancer also, and she died of it.
But I have things that I wear,like this sweater was my mom's.
So when I wear it, I think of her.
And I have something thatbelonged to my youngest brother.
And when I use it, I think of him.
And then my grandfather, he wouldalways say, oh, this is dandy.

(27:24):
And so I say that and I think of him.
So I, it's the same principle andpeople go, dandy, what's that word?
Yeah.
I go, so that was a wordmy grandfather used.
It means cool or whateverit might mean now.
But , when I say that, Ithink of my grandfather.
And so I think those little.

(27:44):
Nuggets that you have, that you'rewearing as a bracelet, obviously it's
impacted your kids, your bio kids.
, I feel like that's part of the legacy thatyou're leaving them, is that, , and you
know, it has to be ingrained in it, right?
So it's experiential,but that is really nice.
I, I like that v- very much.
Very.
, let's see, hardest lesson that youlearned that changed your life.

(28:12):
The easiest way that I can put thisis that no matter how much you plan,
no matter how much you think thatyour life is going to end up as, it's
not necessarily going to be the case,and you're gonna have to overcome
those obstacles and continue on.

(28:32):
Mm-hmm.
So, , just, just beingable to overcome obstacles.
As delicately as you can.
Mm-hmm.
And as positive as you canbecause it, it's not the end.
Yeah.
You can plow through.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
Kinda like Dory.

(28:54):
Yes.
Yeah.
Like Dory.
Yeah.
Just keep swimming.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Same thing for me.
I sit here and I go,okay, I read this too.
This was another, , article I had read.
Somebody had said, okay,ask yourself this question.
Will it matter in five years?
Will it matter in 10?

(29:14):
If it doesn't matter in those spans oftime, then it really doesn't matter.
So I paraphrase that and I go,okay, is this the end of the world?
No.
If- if it didn't happen the way that Iwas wanting, i-is it the end of the world?
No.
And then the other thing that I do isI go and I look outside and I look up

(29:35):
at the sky at night and I go, okay, youknow, and you can see some stars, right?
You know, light pollution,what can I tell you?
But when I see all of those stars, Ijust sit here and go, okay, really I
am nothing, but I am also everything.
I am just like those stars.
So, you know, we have the same, you andI, I think we're very, very similar.

(29:58):
I don't know, I don't, I don't thinkI asked you when your birthday is, but
I'm curious, when is your birthday?
What month?
, August 22nd.
Oh, it's gonna be coming up?
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Okay.
So happy birthday early.
Well, thank you.
Say that.
Yeah.
, what are you most grateful for?
Just

(30:25):
the experiences I've been able to have andthe experiences I know are yet to come.
I like that.
It sounds a little bit likea, it's a wonderful life.
It, it's not always gonnabe a wonderful life.
There's no gonna be obstaclesand you're gonna have to p-pivot.

(30:47):
But just being able to, to have thatopportunity, don't you think that's
what makes it a wonderful life though?
It's like we don't grow throughall of the great things.
We grow through the hard things we do.
Yeah.
So like, we're foolish humans.
We only learn through Oh, it'sgotta be so incredibly hard.

(31:08):
So you gotta keep droppingthat pencil a few more times.
No, you gotta pick it up.
Yeah.
Well, you'd have to pick it up, but yeah.
You're dropping it because like, okay.
I guess I didn't learn that one yet.
, who in your life has had the biggestimpact in a positive way we already know?
With my dad?
Yeah, your dad.
, I would have to attribute a lotof my success to my grandmother.

(31:31):
Mm-hmm.
, my grandmother lost, , her husband ata young age and had to raise two boys.
So, , words of wisdom throughoutmy entire life of, you know, don't,
don't rely on anybody but yourself.
Mm-hmm.
, have the strength to alwaysget back up and keep on going.
It doesn't matter how many times you fall.
What matters is you get upevery single time and you go on.

(31:52):
Mm-hmm.
, so those words of wisdom throughoutmy life and, , looking back,
you know, when you're young,you're just like, okay, yeah.
Whatever, grams.
But, , looking back now, youknow, it, it really gave me the
structure that I needed mm-hmm.
To continue on.
Yeah.
And it's, we have to hearit many, many times, right?
Mm-hmm.

(32:12):
Yeah.
So that, it really just like21 days changes a habit.
It's like 21 times, apparently.
That's how long it takes to have it sinkinto our little brains that are kind of
mushy and get to the right place whereit's being remembered and impactful.
, what do you want to beremembered for and why?

(32:34):
Just making a difference.
Mm-hmm.
Making a difference in, in a, a child'slife, you know, , changing their path.
, Getting them to the future thatthey wanted, , that they desired
providing 'em with those skills.
That's pretty powerful.

(32:55):
Yeah.
Do you have a box?
Because middle school and highschool kids, they, they don't often
get outside of their own, , world.
, but I kept a box, a little box,like a lunchbox kind of a thing of
every letter they ever wrote me.
And I will pull those outstill and I'll go, oh, yeah.
, I have them in a bin.

(33:16):
A big pink bin.
Mm-hmm.
Well, yeah, you did it longer than me.
I did 11 years.
But you've done 25.
Yeah, I have a lot of them, butyou know, the ones that I do
have, I have pictures of students.
Yeah.
I've got collages that were made.
I have scrapbooks that the kids havemade after the international trips.

(33:36):
And ev every once in a while I'llpull that out and I'll start to
laugh because some of them aremade like old school real pictures.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Others are digital, so.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I like the ones that you can touch andexperience and think about for sure.
Mm-hmm.
Well, we're gonna take a real quick breakand acknowledge our sponsor Transcend

(33:59):
Network, and we're gonna be right back.
Transcend Network helps early stagestartup founders find product market
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(34:20):
Network for being a sponsor of our show.
And we're back to the second halfof our show where we talk about the
future of jobs and industries in 2030.
So hard to believe.
I mean, it still sounds far away.
Far away, right?
But it's, it's close.
Oh, i-it's very close.
Yeah, very close.
Like we're halfway through theyears, so we already know, you

(34:43):
know, we're saying six and ahalf years count this year, gone.
And then 2030 it's here.
So we're gonna eliminate a year anda half right off the bat that way.
So what do you think it's gonna look like?
I think that they're hmm.
I dunno.
I always like to say maybewe'll see that car flying.
Oh, I think so.

(35:04):
They already are actually, becauseI'm in that innovation space.
Mm-hmm.
And I have, I know they are because Igo to all of these pitch competitions
and I also see everybody else that'sat the trade shows that we go to.
They are there.
It is just that they haven't madeit, , you know, mainstream so that
we can buy it yet, but they're there.
I know, but I guess what's what I'm sayingis Jetson's car least seeing it happen.

(35:28):
Yeah, yeah.
Seeing it as you're driving down the road.
, I don't know as far as technologyis concerned, I mean, it's changed
so rapidly in just couple of years.
It, it's hard for me toimagine where we can.
We're gonna be next.
Mm-hmm.
, with education, , I know that they'regonna utilize that computer a little bit
more and, , the platforms that they'reusing to teach students that came from

(35:51):
covid and different tactics mm-hmm.
, I'm fearful that, , it'sgonna get too technological.
We may lose personal mm-hmm.
Personalization and, and, , thatbeing able to connect with people.
Yeah.
I think that's gonna be part of what wesee as the trends is that, , in education,

(36:13):
, it's gonna be definitely more customizedand personalized, like you said.
, there will be more people thatgo back into school and they see
it as, , facilitating knowledge.
Maybe not necessarily in the, theschool systems that we currently have,
but more charter schools, small thingswhere people can pick up those skills.
, That are hard tasks, but then beingable to understand them through the

(36:35):
cognitive skills, the power skills, ifyou will, how to apply them will happen.
, but I feel like there's gonna be alot more about, , this is how you
interact with people, the art ofnetworking, the art of talking, because
people are used to being behind thescreen and turning a camera off.

(36:55):
You can't do that ina meeting with humans.
Yeah.
You're still physically in the roomand we can see you sitting there going,
oh yeah, I'm on my phone or, and Ican see that when I'm even on a Zoom
or a Skype call or anything, Googlemeets, but there's gonna have to be
more awareness about how to interactand, oh, yeah, it's good to touch.

(37:18):
Did you know that humansneed seven touches a day?
No, I did not know that.
Yeah.
So that they feel, and this is going back,it's going way back for, for people to
be believe they've been seen and they'vebeen heard, and because we're human and
we're made for relationship, we reallydo need to feel that human connection.

(37:42):
We crave it as people, so to tell ateacher that, oh no, you can't hug a kid.
No, you, we should, we need to, becausethey may not be getting that at home.
We don't know what theirhome lives are like.
Mm-hmm.
Especially when you work with that risk.
Right.
But you also, you know, movethat into the working world.
You don't know what's going on.
Everybody puts that their, their sociallife is so idyllic when it is not, and

(38:07):
what they need is, do you need a hug?
Is that what you want?
Can I give you a hug?
You know?
Yeah.
Even if they're introverted.
They still need to have that, that touch.
Mm-hmm.
So it could be a hug, it could beshaking hands, it can be a fist
bump, it can be any of those things.
Somebody just tapping you on the shoulder.
All of those are just a littleconnection that fires up the neurons

(38:30):
in our head and it goes, oh yeah.
This is, we're human.
Yeah.
So I feel like that's gonna be partof what we, as these facilitators
of knowledge are doing, is teachingpeople how to interact with each other.
Right.
And how to speak.
Yeah.
And, and tone and what that mm-hmm.

(38:50):
Mm-hmm.
What that means.
, excuse me.
Yeah.
I'm not too, I'm not a bigfan of the whole technology.
Here's your assignment.
Here it is on a computer screen.
Go do it.
Mm-hmm.
I-I need that interaction.
So I think that that's gonna.
Really need to be addressed and, and kept.

(39:11):
But don't you think, Laura, the gridis going down one day, that grid
is going down and people are going,they don't teach cursive writing.
I'm sitting there going, okay, people aregonna have to be able to go back to yes.
Pen and paper.
We're gonna, or pencil and paper.
We're gonna have to be ableto use things that are not
electronic and be able to interact.
Right.

(39:32):
But, and read, but the powers thatbe, you know, they make the decisions.
Yep.
And, , the powers that be may notalways know exactly what needs
to be because they're not puttingthemselves in those situations.
They aren't thinkingwhat needs to be there.
Mm-hmm.

(39:52):
, and I think that that's oneof the biggest, , struggles
that educators have right now.
Mm-hmm.
Is we understand that thisis what you wanna see.
But you have to understand that notevery single person is the same.
Everybody is an individual.
Mm-hmm.
They have their own thought processes.
They may come to thesame, , beliefs, they may not.

(40:15):
Mm-hmm.
And you have to be readyto, to handle that.
Mm-hmm.
And you've got to develop each oneof these students as an individual.
Yep.
And, , I don't believe that we cancontinue with technological based
curriculum that just pushes out aninitiative to learn something because

(40:36):
they may learn it, but they have notlearned how to become responsible with it.
Responsible with it.
, they have not learned how to be anindividual, how to communicate, how
to, , be an active part of society.
I agree.
Teaching 'em to look ata screen all day long.
Yeah.
Not to talk.
Not to interact.

(40:57):
Mm-hmm.
It's not good.
No, it's not.
So what are your thoughts about Covidand how we had to switch from being on
the ground to going remote and now it'smore of a, I guess I'll call it a hybrid.
I don't know.
I think that kids really do needto be socialized and that's the
advantages of being in a, a schoolsystem, whether it's a charter school

(41:20):
or if it's a public school system.
I think it's just understandingit is not all about you.
Mm-hmm.
You have other people around you.
, I can, I can tell you that my biokids, , they had a very difficult
time being at home because they aresocial, because they are athletes,
because they are members of teams.

(41:40):
, when everything shut down and we had todo schooling online, they did not excel.
Mm-hmm.
As they do in the classroom.
They need to have thatconnection, that one-on-one.
The, , the school environment, theschool atmosphere, , My, both of my
children have taken online coursesand they've been successful with 'em,
but they're not their favorite course.

(42:01):
, they don't feel that they, they reallytruly learned everything that they
possibly could from that interaction.
, so I think that, , when we're dealingwith an epidemic pandemic situation
like Covid, we needed to provide safety.

(42:22):
, and I think that we pivoted pretty well.
Yep.
Tried to provide everything that we could.
, but it was, it, it is really not idealto keep as a continuation for education.
Mm-hmm.
Again, , using computers is great.
, Again, that interactionis key to their success.

(42:42):
Mm-hmm.
So I just truly believe it'sgotta be a combination of two.
Yep.
Yep.
So the aspect I, I think thatthis is where we're gonna see AR
and VR come into the classroom.
They'll have to make it moreaffordable because the goal is to
make things experiential, right?
Mm-hmm.

(43:03):
And I don't know about you, but Isit here and I go, I do not wanna
have to put on a giant set of gogglesto understand how to experience.
I.
Whatever, when I can do that withoutthe goggles and it's still me.
And then let's even push iteven a bit further, you know,
the, , the movie avatar, right?

(43:23):
So you're taking a person and essentiallyputting them into a coffin to me.
So I am wanting to experience what itis like to be on Mars, but I have to go
inside of a box, whether it's the Matrixor avatar or whatever, to be able to
know what it's like to be on on Mars.
I'm going, no, I don't think I want that.

(43:43):
Mm-hmm.
You know, so I, I don't know what yourthoughts are about how education is
trying to integrate AR and VR into theclassroom to make it more experiential.
, because of being in a highlytechnological environment and
with remote, it's not going away.
It's still gonna be here.

(44:04):
So we have to learn how toadapt to all of these things.
I don't know.
I mean, turning cameras on,you got vision going on.
You can have, you know, listeningcertainly there, but you can't smell it.
You can't touch a person andyou can't, you know, taste it.
So, you know, I'm losing three senses.
Mm-hmm.
, supplementing with AR and VR, it's fine.

(44:29):
I, I think that we should utilizetechnology that we have, but we
should also not get too far awayfrom that personal interaction that
you have with the student mm-hmm.
To better them.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, again, there's classes I'msure out there that you have everything
set up in your little Google or Canvascourse and you walk right in, you sit

(44:52):
down, you open up your laptop and you'redink dink dink d dink all class period.
You close the laptop and you walked out.
Well, what exactly did thatkid actually really learn?
They learned how to answera bunch of questions.
Yep.
, and then answering a bunch of questions,how much did they actually really learn?
When you can Google it and getthe answer and just pop it in.
So again, I think that utilizingtechnology as a supplement is great.

(45:17):
As the, the whole shebang not so much.
But, , yeah.
My kids, my students excelled inunderstanding back of the house when we
actually took a field trip and went to ahotel and toured the back of the house.
, so that they were able to understandthat even when they walk into a hotel,

(45:38):
whether it's a home suites or if it'sthe Ritz, you know, whole front is all
made for your visual enjoyment mm-hmm.
For your vacation.
But once you step past that door thatsays employees only, It is not pretty.
It is a workplace and you seepeople bustling all over the place
to make your experience wonderful.

(45:59):
That's when they really, truly see it.
I can tell 'em about it, I can show'em pictures on the screen through
technology, but actually going, likeyou said, experiencing with all the
senses, that's how they're gonna learn.
Yeah.
I- it's human.
We're humans.
And even though they could make itso that I, I could still sense it if

(46:21):
I'm still having to wear to me sometype of a device to replicate what I
could experience without the device.
Like why I wanna experience it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I, I think that's gonna be the hardestthing to, , because I've seen, I work
out of a coworking space, which I sharedwith you, , that focuses on simulation,

(46:45):
ar, vr, holograms, all of these thingsare there, , in that space where I work.
And even though I can go and try themand, and see it, it's just still,
it's like playing the game player one.
Mm-hmm.
You know?
And it's also what theyhave created for you to see.
Yes, exactly.
Like being front of thehouse, like you said.

(47:06):
Mm-hmm.
So it's not, it's not necessarily yourexperience, it's, it's their experience
that they're providing for you.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So there is a bias that steps in there.
, robots, ai, what do you think ai,augmented reality, how's it gonna
impact positively or negatively?
I know we've been talking aboutit, but if you have any other

(47:28):
thoughts you wanna put out there.
Well, I think a different,, Different elements.
There are some positives, , , inthe medical to, , use robotic
structure robotics to do certainprocedures, , to make 'em less invasive.
, that might be something,you know, positive.
, I don't see myself having, , alittle robot coming around going,

(47:50):
would you like some coffee?
And yeah, so making coffeeand things like that.
, but I think it's really to each his own.
Mm-hmm.
You know, how much I, I'm old school.
I, I like making my coffee.
It took me a long timeto figure out curate.
They did it right.
But, , you know, there are somepeople that are driven by technology.

(48:11):
They want the latest thing.
And, , so I think it isjust to each his own.
, but medically speaking, I thinkthat we could possibly gain some.
Great advancements there.
, anything that's a socialwhere you need to communicate?
I don't think that it might, Idon't think it will be the best.
'cause you, again, youneed that human experience.

(48:32):
Yeah.
We all need it.
So, yeah.
So there is a robot, , a restaurant inKissimmee area that does have robots.
Have you been there?
No, I have not been there,but I have heard about it.
Yeah.
And it brings you, your, your food.
And then there are some thatare in California that do
that at, , some state parks.
Mm-hmm.
, they are all around.

(48:53):
We know that we have autonomous drivingcars, so that's here, that's in Lake Nona.
So there's a lot of thesethings that are around us.
And Roomba, if you have aRoomba, then you have a robot.
Of course, of course.
But I think, again, in thoseatmospheres, I mean, I like
going to a restaurant and I.
And talking to the waiter, right?

(49:14):
And having that interaction.
I think that that helps with the wholeexperience of that particular restaurant.
So again, pieces and parts.
, if it's a restaurant that'srobotically run, you know, you go
for the experience of a roboticallyrun restaurant, but I don't feel that
we should, , get to a point whereeverything is driven by robotics
and, and we're, there's a McDonald'shere in somewhere in central Florida.

(49:38):
I read about this one too in centralFlorida that has no humans at all.
You walk in, you place your order,it comes out, here's your order.
You know, kind of like in aconveyor belt, there's your food.
And I went that.
I like going to McDonald's and havingsomebody smile at me and saying, yeah,
here, you know, here's your hash brown.

(49:59):
I love McDonald's hash browns,but having the humans there, I.
I think that they're needed becausethat, again, is, it's creating jobs.
I can imagine that it cuts alot of, , expenses out of a
company's, you know, bottom line.
But I don't know, I don't thinkwe should do those things.
But as you said that, I mean, I knowthat companies wanna make money.

(50:22):
I mean, sure businesses wanna beprofitable, but how profitable
do you, do you really need to be?
Mm-hmm.
How profitable do you really need to be?
So that ties into our ethicsquestion, which is the next
one, just because we can do it.
This is usually what I say, justbecause we can do it, does that
mean we really should do it?
Are we making sure, are we beinggood stewards of what this, this

(50:48):
beast is that we've created?
Because it's all come out of our own mindsas to how we see the future looking like.
And that's what we.
Do I?
Science fiction movies are reallygood vehicles of how people envision
something for all of us, andthen it begins to happen and it
begins to become more affordable.

(51:10):
So, but just because wecan eliminate some jobs.
What about those people that areinternationals that may not speak
English, that are driving Uber or Lyft?
Right?
And they're doctors and they'relawyers because they can't get
that license in this country.
They have to go back to school.
What about those with some type ofphysical, mental, or emotional disability?

(51:32):
Just because we can, does thatmean this is my fear, just
because we begin to eliminate it?
Is it a little bit like the Holocaustwhere we're eliminating only the
purest of the people or the onesthat are being hired, getting jobs?
Because what I feel like canhappen is that okay, you said

(51:54):
everything's being measured, right?
Mm-hmm.
What is your cognitive skill ranking?
What are your task ranking?
And that's how we begin to starthiring people based on those things.
Black Mirror covers a lot of these things,and I've told you, you gotta go watch it.
And I, I was thinking this stuffbefore I even watched it and some

(52:14):
of them are really dark and scary.
I'm not gonna even gonna lie to you, butI've started watching the next season
of it and they only produce five forevery season because they are intense.
And you'll feel that,yeah, I can see that.
That's definitely happening.
And no, I would never wannasee that stuff happen.
So watch it maybe with your kids and havea good dialogue with your, either your

(52:38):
bio kids or your real kids because thereis one that you should go and watch,
, since you teach marketing and it's about,, having social scores and that impacts I.
Everybody's always watching their,their ranking and social media and
they're going, oh no, I just went down.
Oh gosh, I have to go Hi and bigsmile and everything and always
interact in such a, a non-genuine way.

(53:01):
It's not authentic, it's not real tobe able to, you know, boost it up.
And if you display any type of negativeemotions, your score goes down.
You don't get hired.
Just, there's so many, , outcomes thatcan happen because of something like
that would be a really good one foryour, your marketing students to watch

(53:21):
and then create just a response paper,I think is gonna be really something.
What is it that they think,is that happening now?
Do they see that happening?
What are their thoughts?
So they're thinkingfuture forward for sure.
Yeah.
And they, , they already do thatwith like their social media
statuses and they keep up with it.

(53:41):
Right.
Of course.
I'm gonna send that link to youjust so you know, so you can.
Debate on that one for sure.
You know, it's there,but I, I was concerned.
Obviously chat, it's out of thebox so you can't stuff it back in.
It's not gonna go away.
It's just gonna keep getting there.
And so when people ask me aboutit, I go, well, here's the thing.

(54:03):
Before we had the internet, peoplewould go and look things up in
books and we went to libraries.
And before that they were in differentrepositories of, of knowledge, right?
In different ways to access them.
So old school, we read books andthen we had to research a paper.
And that all took a lot of time.

(54:23):
We get the internet now.
We can find things, wecan find things online.
So all chat is, but it'sgetting better all the time too.
It, it takes all of thatinformation good and bad.
And it says here, withinseconds or minutes, here you go.
Here's a PR campaign.
And you don't know how accurate it is.

(54:45):
It doesn't fact check it unlessyou ask for citations and even
then it'll give you citations.
You have to be very specific with how youuse it to be able to produce that the job.
So that I believe will happen is,okay, well we need to have people
that make it sound like it's not chat,that it's actually a human wrote it.
There should be mistakes.
Now we're gonna see those types of thingshappening where it's more customized,

(55:09):
where it's going to be, , fact checkedlike in journalism so that it's accurate
and real sources are there, and whatit could be after that, I don't know.
But I know that there's robotsout there that I can talk to, and
I think I'm talking to a human.
They're so realistic becauseGoogle put that one out on tv.
I don't know, four years ago,five years ago, you thought you

(55:32):
were talking with a real person.
But the problem with that is,It's all based on the algorithm.
Yes.
That's been created.
So if there's any biasin that algorithm mm-hmm.
That's been created, and thesekids are using these different
platforms to get that pr mm-hmm.
You know, put together for 'em,it's based off of other people.

(55:55):
Yes.
So you're allowing forno opinion of yourself.
Mm-hmm.
You're not putting any ofyour own ideas out there.
You're not developing yourself.
You are, you're usingsomebody else's stuff.
It's kind of like when peoplego, well, it's on the internet.
It has to be true.
It's not.
It's not.

(56:16):
And just because chat wrote itdoesn't mean that it's true.
Right.
So I did see, , with an intern, shehad a very lengthy Instagram post.
Mm-hmm.
So, , the organization said, you know, usechat and, and put that in there and then
ask it to be reduced to 200 words or less.
Hmm.
And it didn't, and it, it was beautiful.

(56:37):
It sounded great.
Mm-hmm.
But again, the thinking that theinterns should have done to bring
it down to 200 words or lesson their own, they lose that.
Not everything is a quick fix.
And more quick fixes arenot teaching you anything.
Yeah.
Those, exactly.
You have to be able to use thatcritical thinking, those problem

(57:00):
solving skills to get to the place.
Because what people get paid foris their vast years of knowledge of
being able to work through those andbeing able to think, well, if we do
this and this, then this and this.
That whole decision tree.
Super important.
Right.
And the kids that are using thisstuff now, they lose some of that, so

(57:20):
they'll become little robots instead.
Yay.
Yeah.
What is the best mentoring advice thatyou want to share with our listeners?
Never give up.
Just never give up.
Mm-hmm.
, it may not always goin the right direction.
Mm-hmm.
, but just pivot, change and never give up.
Give up.
You'll get there eventually.

(57:42):
Yep.
I put these in here so Iremember so I can pull them.
Yep.
, how can our listeners contact you?
Typically, we share likea person's LinkedIn.
I know you're not on LinkedIn, really.
, and you don't really use social channels.
That is so exactly what teachers do.
They, they do not live for social media.
, whether they're in higher ed,secondary or in, you know, primary

(58:06):
and, you know, regular education.
, none of them will use that.
So, well, not many, not many.
So anyway, how can peopleget in touch with you?
, they can, they give me a call at Dr.
Phillips High School.
Very nice.
So we put the, the school, Dr.
Phillips, , website up there.
They can look there and theycan find the phone number there.

(58:29):
And then you mentioned a social channelthat you only use it for school.
Do you want anybody to know that one?
We will not share it if you do not want.
I only, I don't have anythingthat I only use for school.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, I can give you my schoolemail, but, , no, I only have.
Facebook, and I only share thatwith very close friends and
family, no problem that I use.

(58:51):
No problem.
I think that's wise.
I'm gonna, you know, make sure thatwe correct, , protect the parameters.
Well, Laura, this has been delightful.
I really wanna thank you forbeing a guest on the show so much.
, I learned a lot about you today, soI, , I really love, again what you're
doing at the school and I'm so gratefulto have educators like yourself that

(59:11):
are guiding and molding and, and helpingthe kids be able to think through
well the if then statements in life.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Appreciate.
Well, , that is it for our show, forour guests, and we hope that you will
come back and listen to the next show.
Thank you to our sponsor,cat five Studios.

(59:31):
Thank you to our video productionteam, Gabe LaPorte and Leona Blair.
Music composer is Sophie Lloyd.
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(59:51):
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