S6 EP 264 Ray Choi, an AWS Wizard and His Take On Innovation

Ray Choi is the CEO of Easy Cloud Solutions which provides web hosting, security, and development. He also is the Pastor of Hill Community Church in Torrance California. On this week's show, Ray shared his career and startup story and how that landed him finding intersection between business and faith in his journey.   #Employers4Change #Employer4Change #E4C #interns #employers #employer #smallbiz #podbean #applepodcasts #spotify #AWSArchitect #EasyCloudSolutions #Faith

Episode Transcript

(00:10):
Hi, my name is Isabella Johnstonand I am the Intern Whisperer.
Our show is brought to you by Employers4 Change, and today's Tip of the Week
builds on our series on unconscious bias.
Did you know that there were 16 typesof unconscious bias that commonly affect
candidates and employees in the workplace?

(00:30):
This week's tip is about attributionbias, which is the phenomena where
you try to make sense of, or you judgea person's behavior based on your
prior observations and interactionsthat you've had with that individual.
It builds up this wholeperception that we have of them.
While this may seem harmless, humans arequick to judge and falsely assume about a

(00:55):
person without knowing their full story.
So when hiring attribution bias cancause hiring managers and recruiters
to determine their full storywithout even knowing if it's true.
So you want to make sure that you'renot thinking, oh, this person is unfit
for the job because they did somethingunusual, or their resume has something

(01:16):
on there that you're not sure about.
there's different ways that youcan avoid this type of bias.
So rather than assume a candidate isunfit for a job because they were late
to the interview, ask them what happened.
It could be totallyinnocent and unprecedented.
If there is something on their resume orsomething they said during the interview

(01:37):
that caused you to draw conclusionsabout the candidate, be sure to ask.
Further clarifying questions.
Don't forget that interviewees are oftennervous and they may misspeak or stumble.
Just give them a chance to share theirfull story with you before you judge them.
Thank you so much.

(01:57):
Welcome to The Intern Whisperer.
Our show is all about thefuture of work and innovation.
Hi, so this week's guest is somebodyI've known for a little bit.
I'm really excited to have him on my show.
Um, his name is Ray Choi.
He is an AWS solutions architect,the CEO of Easy Cloud Solutions.

(02:17):
Also the founder.
And he, um, this company helps withweb hosting, security and development.
And if you don't know how to useAWS ,he's the person to call.
He is also the pastor of Hill CommunityChurch in Torrance, California.
And so, Ray, welcome to the show.
I.
Hello.
Good to see you, Isabella.
Always nice to see you.

(02:38):
So I feel like we should openwith something you told me
before we started the show, thisspecial AI that you're using.
But I'm gonna hold off on that onebecause I always ask my guests, what
are the five words that describeyou and why those five words?
And I can help you because we did gothrough those right before the show.

(02:58):
Okay.
I am husband, father, AWS,certified and entrepreneur.
Yep.
How about that?
So why those five words?
And you led with husband, sothat means your wife is gonna be
happy that you talked about her.
Uh, my wife Jackie, she ismy, my, my other half, my

(03:21):
better, half my best friend.
So without her, there is no,not much meaning in life.
So that's why I have tostart with her father.
I, I have three boys, one in college.
Second one who, uh, about togo to college and a third one
who just entered high school.
Uh, church planter.
That's, I would say I am bi-vocational.

(03:43):
So I have two full-time jobs, but I'd saychurch planting, pastoring is my main one.
Uh, and then to pay the bills.
I also, did not throw away my tech careerwhen I, when I jumped into the ministry.
And so I also have a, a tech company.
So, uh, it involves AWS AItechnology, so I'm an entrepreneur.

(04:05):
Hmm.
So our listeners may notknow what, um, AWS is.
You might need to explain to themwhat, uh, cloud-based services.
So definitely make surethat you, uh, include that.
But before we start that, I'mgonna go back to what you told me.
So there's this special piece ofAI platform that you're using.

(04:26):
You're in a noisy cafe, butI do not hear any background.
I wanna know more what is thatproduct and tell our listeners.
Yes.
So I, I, I knew I had this, uh, hotpo uh, podcast slash video interview
scheduled for the afternoon, but it'ssuch a beautiful day in sunny California.

(04:47):
I wanted to have closeaccess to the beach.
Uh, so I, I, I, um, did a quickGoogle search and I found this, uh,
AI company called Crisp chris.AI.
I signed up for them, tried it out,um, and I'm actually trying out, uh,
live for the first time on this call.
I'm in a very loud cafe.

(05:09):
The, the fan is blowing constantly.
Uh, people are, people are speakingand that's, uh, it's a very crowded
cafe, uh, but as you can tell, ithas a wonderful noise cancellation
like far beyond what Zoom can do.
Uh, and so, uh, I'm happy that it'sworking well for this, for this interview.
Yeah.
I could not even believe it when you toldme because I don't see anybody moving

(05:32):
behind you, so you must be against a wall.
Yes, it's, I'm behind.
Uh, yeah, yeah.
Yep.
That is incredible.
Okay, so let's go ahead and then explainto our listeners what is an AWS architect.
What is AWS, all of that good stuff.
Yes.
Uh, so AWS is the largest cloud platform.

(05:56):
Uh, if, uh, I'm sure all ofyour listeners have shopped on
amazon.com, the largest e-commerce.
E-commerce company in the world,uh, that is just, um, causing a lot
of other businesses to shutter andclose permanently, unfortunately.
Uh, but good for them.
So Amazon has built this large platformand in order to, to run amazon.com,

(06:19):
uh, where you can order somethingand receive it, sometimes within
hours, they needed to build this,uh, technology infrastructure where
you can click on, uh, order somethingonline or through your, uh, phone app
and, and it just magically shows up.
Like how does that whole process happen?
And so, uh, I think Amazon was smart.

(06:40):
Uh, it said, well, we figured this outand we have all this backend technology.
Why don't we, why don't we rentit out to folks who, who might
wanna leverage a piece of it.
Um, so that's exactly what they've done.
And it's, uh, Amazon, uh, AWS, whichis the cloud, Amazon Web Services,
the cloud arm of amazon.com.

(07:02):
Is actually the biggestmoney maker for Amazon.
Uh, more than the e-commerce,which people may not know it's
a number one cloud platform.
Number two, a distant twowould be Microsoft Azure.
Uh, Google Cloud platform is, is evena, uh, uh, more distant number three.
Uh, Amazon is, is the market leader.

(07:24):
And so I, I decided well thoughtif I'm gonna be in technology,
I, I should, I should understandAWS and what they have to offer.
Uh, so a few years back, I, I wentthrough, uh, several courses, got
several CER certificates, and I startedincorporating that into my business.
Yeah, that was a smart move.

(07:44):
And that's honestly how I metyou is because they also have
a, a refer consultant program.
And when I was looking forsomebody, because I went,
I do not understand Amazon.
It is a beast for sure.
Yes, yes, yes, they did.
And that's how I came across you.
That's right.
That's right.
Yeah.
So that is super, super interesting.

(08:06):
I remember you telling me somethingabout one of your sons also, and that
he had taken the certification, whichis rigorous and quite challenging.
Yes, yes.
So, uh, two of my boys,it's an interesting story.
They, uh, there, there is the associatelevel certificates, which is, um, hands-on
working knowledge of, of the platform.

(08:27):
So you have to be quitetechnical to pass any of those.
And then there's a professional level,which means you're like a super expert.
Uh, but even before those, uh,certificates, there's the, the base
certificate cloud practitioner, whichI, which I didn't take, but I thought,
oh, this is perfect for my voice.
There's people who wanna dip theirtoes in it, maybe are not sure

(08:49):
you're gonna go into technology, but.
Like, if you wanna do sales forAWS, you need a working knowledge
of their service offering, andyou gotta know the vocabulary.
So that's the level, uh, that AWScloud practitioner certificate is for.
And so, uh, summer when, when bothof my boys, I think one was in
high school, one was in junior highschool, I had him study for the test.

(09:14):
Uh, we showed up at the examinationto take the test, and it turns
out that there's a minimum agerequirement of 18 years old, which
my boys did not make that cut off.
And so, uh, I, I was, I was upset atthat because it, to me, it, you shouldn't
have to be 18 years old to, to showproficiency, uh, in any technology.

(09:36):
So I, I started, um,trying to contact Amazon.
I didn't get anywhere.
Um, and then I said, well, letme just email Jeff Bezos, so
I guessed his email address.
It must be [e-mail].
I emailed him within the next businessday, his executive assistant, uh,

(09:57):
got back to me and said, um, yeah,sure, we will, we will contact the,
uh, the, the, uh, testing centerand give your boys approval, uh,
for take, uh, to take the test.
And, um, I also knew it was possibleto fight for it because I had Googled
and I found a LinkedIn article abouta nine year old, um, uh, who's a part

(10:19):
of a nine year old who did pass thesame test, so I know it was possible.
Uh, and so my, my boy, I think are thesecond, third youngest people to ever pass
the AWS cloud practitioner certificate.
Yeah, that's a pretty big, uh,pretty cool hat to wear and Yes, yes.
Big, big shoulder pads that you need.

(10:40):
Yeah.
Yes, yes.
Quite weighty, so thank you.
So that is, I, I reallylike that story a lot.
And I think it, it speaks to, youknow, the amount of work that it
takes to, you know, become that.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah.
They, they didn't just, you know, I'msure they may have walked out of the womb
being that smart, but, you know, theydidn't come out knowing Amazon Web Smart.

(11:03):
So that was a lot of Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Yeah.
It, it, it beats, uh, playingvideo games in a summit.
Oh yeah.
That's for sure.
Um, well, would you tell our listenersabout your educational journey?
How did you get started?
Where did you go school?
It can be anywhere you want,um, your career path, and then
how did you start your business?

(11:24):
And I know you have two thingsthat you're gonna tell us about.
So, yes.
Uh, I went to college, uh, and.
Because I'm Asian, most Asianparents only have two career choices.
You're either a doctor or a lawyer.
Yep.
So I was, I was slightly moretechnical, so I was put on the pre-med
track, uh, Berkeley pre-med wasquite rigorous and I was not a good

(11:49):
student, and so I did not do so well.
Uh, I, I got, I became a Christianin college, and so I just, um, I kind
of got burnt out with, with, um, uh,trying to, to please my parents and,
and, and trying to be the best student.
And so I was, uh, and, and then Berkeley,um, science lectures are notoriously

(12:11):
boring because the professors there werenot hired because they're great teachers.
They're, they're incredible researchers.
Yeah.
Uh, and teaching is reallykind of an afterthought.
And so I, I just got bored of,uh, trying to listen to a couple
years of, of science lectures.
So I just took different courses.
I took an anthropology course,and I finally found, uh, lecturers

(12:35):
were somewhat interesting.
Uh, it's not so much I, I lovewhat they were saying, the content,
I just liked how they spoke.
I liked their, their eloquence.
I liked, I was interested inengaged during the lecture
instead of falling asleep.
So I became an anthropology major.
Uh, and then by my fourth year it dawnedon me that, um, I'm not gonna be Indiana

(12:57):
Jones looking for some lost relic.
And so I said I should, I should figureout what I'm gonna, what practical
skills I have to, to secure a job.
That's when I started, um, uh,working at a computer lab, uh,
for the Berkeley Business School.
Uh, started taking some programmingclasses, some, uh, technology classes,

(13:19):
try to, uh, read up on myself.
I.
And, and, um, my first job out ofcollege, fortunately, was, um, bank
of America, uh, which is a large bank,maybe the second largest bank in America.
And they were hiringfor technical managers.
And, and so they did a, a national search.

(13:40):
And so they, they wanted to kindof break the wall between technical
people who maybe did not have goodcommunication skills and business people
who could not understand technology.
But they, they put us, uh, they hired,I mean, they, they hired about 15 of
us nationwide to go through a program,which was free education, the latest

(14:01):
technologies for the first three months.
And then we had our pick of allthese, uh, jobs within Bank of
America's technology headquarters.
Uh, and so, uh, that was my,my first entry into technology.
So did you like workingin the finance industry?
I mean, some people eitherlove it or they don't.

(14:24):
Well, I was, I was part of the homebanking team, which was to manage,
uh, their Unix, uh, uh, Unix,uh, servers and Bank of America.
I think at the time it waslike 180,000 employees.
And so I, I I, I kind of learned whatI needed to do for my job very quickly.

(14:45):
And I had a, we're we're also specializedand so we were doing network performance,
finding bottlenecks in the network,uh, and you know, going out with a
sniffer, uh, capturing packets and,and generating reports just so we
can, uh, remove bottlenecks in thislarge, uh, scale enterprise network.

(15:05):
Um, but I got, uh, it'slike a 40 hour job.
I think I finished my job in abouthalf the time and I was kind of bored.
Uh, and so, uh, I, I decided, well, asa young person, I don't wanna be sitting
there 20 hours a week, clearly my thumbs.
So I jumped into the startup world.
Um, uh, I, I, I joined various startups.

(15:27):
Uh, the one that Ijoined, I went bankrupt.
That's a few years because, uh, I,I got, I was employed in the late
nineties, and then by 2000, the, thebubble burst, um, the one company that
I got hired for that I did not acceptwas acquired by a large company, aaa.
And so that one, I think had I,had I taken that job, I might've

(15:51):
been a millionaire, so, oh, wow.
Uh, so I, I just, I miss, uh, discern.
I did not discern which, which oneI should have gone for, but, but
yeah, it was all for the better.
Yeah.
Well, that's good.
It's a positive way tolook at it for sure.
What is Unix you?
Is it U N I X?

(16:14):
Unix is, uh, just an operating systemlike, uh, like Mac OS is Oh, okay.
Is shiny.
The shiny operating system that Apple puton top of Linux, which is a, you know,
similar to Unix, so different flavors.
Yeah.
I have heard of Linux, but Ihad never, never heard of Unix.
And I went, okay, there's something new.
I've gotta make sure Iknow what that one is.

(16:36):
So you, you went from there, from Bankof America, you tried startup life.
How did you get to where you arenow, where you have your own company
and also, you know, being engaged,running, being a pastor at a church?
Yes.
So, uh, I got married in 2000.
Uh, did your wife go to Berkeley too?

(16:56):
Yes.
My wife went to Berkeley.
We met at Berkeley.
Uh, I, I I, I was a sophomore at the time.
She was a freshman.
Uh, we were, we were in this kind ofstrict church, and that's another story,
which I, we should say for another time.
Okay.
Uh, but, but, uh, Uh, dating wasnot, was kind of frowned upon,
and I was a young Christian.
I thought, okay, let's, let's, let's notget into that when you're an undergrad.

(17:19):
I'm a new believer, so I, Ijust kind of put that aside.
Um, but I knew when, when I was asophomore and she was a freshman,
that I was gonna marry her.
I just had a strong sense of that.
Fast forward, um, you know, you know, afew years later got graduated, um, asked
her out on a date, and pretty much thefirst date we're talking about marriage.
Uh, so that was 1998.

(17:42):
Uh, got married in 2000.
Uh, we went to Japan as missionaries.
And while we were on the missionfield, um, God reminded me of
what he told me when I was agraduating from college in 1996.
Um, I, I knew I was noton a conventional path.
I knew at some point I.

(18:03):
I was gonna be a pastor, Ijust didn't know when, where.
And so kind of filed that away.
God rekindled that desire when Iwas, uh, a missionary in Japan,
reaching out to students there.
And the students, uh, you know, if, youknow Japan, many mission missionaries,
nothing sent there, but it's a verydifficult place to, uh, to evangelize.

(18:25):
And some people say if you, if you,if 1, 1 1, um, convert to Christianity
in Japan is equal to 100 here.
And so, uh, sure enough, it wasdifficult the first couple years,
but by the third year we got, wesaw dozens and dozens of, um, uh,
college students come to faith there.

(18:47):
And the church, you know, kindof grew, uh, my, my, my heart
for people was rekindled.
Uh, and so I started going toseminary, uh, back, back there.
And so when that mission trip, uh, andended like three and a half years later,
Uh, uh, came back to Torrance becausemy wife's, um, uh, parents were there.

(19:08):
Uh, turned to TorranceFuller seminaries there.
So I, I transferred fromGordon-Conwell to Fuller Seminary.
Finished up there, graduated in 2006,and then I was just kind of waiting.
I didn't know when I was gonna pastoror when I'm gonna use this degree.
And so I went back into technologyinto another startup and just

(19:28):
waited, uh, for, for the timing.
And so from 2006, 2010, 11, uh, I wasdriving about an hour and a half from,
from, uh, Culver City at the time to, um,Hollywood, not really enjoying my job.
Uh, it was a dis dysfunctionalhusband and wife running this company.

(19:53):
A lot of obscenity, a.
Uh, uh, um, a lot of stress becausepersonal finances of the, of this
founding couple and the companyfinances were all intertwined.
Um, coffee mugs were thrown againstthe wall, so I, I just didn't let, I
just didn't, it was very dysfunctional.
I didn't like going there.

(20:14):
Uh, I knew God had called me to somethingelse, but the timing wasn't right.
So, uh, it was a, it was a, waitingfor about four or years or so.
God finally called meto be a pastor in 2011.
Um,, hill Community Churchwas birthed when, in 2012.
And so now at that point, I'vebeen doing technology for about 15

(20:34):
years, and I thought, okay, churchplanters, I mean, it's like you're
planting a church from scratch.
Mm-hmm.
I'm not getting hired by a large,um, church with a, with a big budget.
I had three young boys,uh , and a wife to provide for.
And so I thought, okay,I'll, I'm in technology.
Let me, let me start something.
So that I, I don't have to relyon the church for finances.

(20:57):
Um
, and it, it began with just bartering services.
Like I went to a jeweler because, um, youknow, getting, uh, a, a ring refitted.
I said, okay, um, um, I'm a pastorand it turns out the owner was
a Christian and we hit it off.
He, he trusted me.
I said, okay, let do, do youneed help with your website?

(21:18):
He said, I need some help.
Do you need help with,
uh
, social media and so I can help there?
And, and we just startedbartering services.
The same with the boys they werein, um, daycare and preschool.
Uh , and then tuition was quite abit and daycare is quite a bit of
money, especially in California.
And I told the school, well, whileyour website needs some help, um,

(21:40):
it looks like your computer labis kind of out of outdated and
we're having printer problems.
Why don't I, why don't I help youand, and can you lower the tuition?
So they lowered the tuition.
I, I kept helping them.
I earned their trust.
After a while,
uh , they
lowered it to, to zero for all three boys.
Wow.
Uh, and then, and then a few years later,it was zero tuition for all three boys,

(22:03):
and they paid me a hundred percent.
So that's how the company, that's, that'show the company got launched because,
you know, the, the other people I thinkwere just taking advantage of, of like
school directors who, who, uh, whowas not the most technically literate.
And so back in the day, she was, um,this, this director was paying $600 to

(22:27):
Yellow Pages and not even knowing what,what, what am I getting out of this?
Uh, yellow Pages advertising.
I said, you don't need to do that.
You're, you're wasting your money.
Uh, let, let's just build organicSEO uh, let, let's just publish
regularly on your website.
Uh, um, let's make it easy for, uh, forpeople to see what the school is about.

(22:49):
And so just, just by cutting outservices, me providing value, uh,
and, and the enrollment going up,um, that's how I earned their trust.
And the, that's kind of how Easy Cloud,um, uh, the, that's a nice story.
It was a nice blend of like,certainly faith, but, um, your
family is, is a family ownedbusiness, I guess, also, right?

(23:13):
Sure, sure, sure.
Yes, yes.
Yeah.
It's got family, uh, woven throughoutthe whole tapestry of the story.
Yes, yes.
They're a big part of my story.
Yeah.
So that's cool.
What does your wife do?
Uh, she used to be in hr.
Now she is supporting me.
Nice.
A hundred percent.

(23:33):
Uh , pastor's wife.
Uh,, she's kind of a unsung hero.
Uh, you know, just all the logistics.
Now I just have to showup and do my thing.
But she does all the background stuff.
Yeah.
Anybody in ops is huge.
Yes.
Yes.
And, and a few years ago I convincedher to quit her job and just can

(23:53):
you help me with Zi Cloud as well?
So she handles hr, finance, there'slegal stuff, all the tedious.
Paperwork that I, I reallydon't wanna take in.
Gotcha.
Yeah.
Well, sounds like it's a good, uh,business arrangement also there,
you know, mutual shared gifts.
So, so when we were talking about howyou started all of this, uh, business you

(24:18):
had, uh, I know that we had talked aboutsome other ideas of things that we would
potentially do together, and so you workwith me over here at Employers 4 Change,
and you're also, uh, the one that I goto for anything that's Amazon stuff.
I have so much issues with it.
I'm very grateful for that.
But you've also, um, send your kids overand so they're working over here with us.

(24:42):
So it truly is that family arrangement.
I'm gonna throw that one outthere because you know good.
Yeah, yeah.
They, they, they are my, I don't havea 41 K, but my children are my 41 k.
They are, I they are, they definitely are.
So, okay, I'm looking over here.
What is the favorite quotethat you live your life by?

(25:09):
My favorite quote is, uh, probablylinked to my favorite chapter in all,
all of scripture, which is John 15.
Jesus is the vine.
I am nearly a branch.
Apart from, from Jesus, I can do nothing.
He is my life.
Who is, he is everything to me.
And so I just try to stay as close tohim as I can and, and live life like him.

(25:30):
Follow him, do life the way he did.
I, and I feel like I'll, I'll be, I'll beokay as long as I, uh, as long as I do.
Hmm.
That's a really, really nice.
Some of my other listeners, they shallthey, uh, share bible verses also,
and I find that always encouraging,I think for other people to hear.
What is the hardest lessonthat you learned that changed

(25:53):
your life for the better?
Yes.
I, I think because, uh, becauseI'm an, I'm an Asian, uh , uh,
uh, and, and an entrepreneur,um, work ethic is very important.
And so I, I think when, when we startedthe church, uh, I think, I think I, I

(26:14):
was, I did not order things properly.
Uh, especially now that I, you know, nowthat I've, uh, been a Christian for a
while and I, I see things in scripture Ididn't see when I was a young believer.
Uh, I see that God hasa way of growing people.
And, uh, you, you, you're, uh , you're agood, it starts with, you know, you're a

(26:35):
good Christ follower, and then from there,if you're married, you're a good spouse.
You, you can serve your spouse,and then if you have children, you,
you manage your household well, andthis is the, the training ground
for leadership in God's church.
I think I got, I always, I alwayssay as a college student, And I got
thrust into ministry, uh, in collegeand right out of college before I

(26:59):
was married, before I had children.
And, and I was very active.
Uh, that, uh, in that kind of a,with that kind of a mindset, I even
went to missions with that mindset.
I fast forward to two yearsinto our church plant.
Uh, um, my wife was having so muchdifficulty at the church because of

(27:20):
some difficult, uh, personalities.
It got so bad that she, she said, Idon't think I can go to church anymore.
And, and that was quiteshocking for me as a pastor.
Uh, and this is supposedto be a, a safe place.
And if anyone is, should belooking forward to it, it
should, should be me and my wife.

(27:41):
And for her to say that it was avery loud, um, rebuke from the Lord,
uh, that I had prioritized the work.
The church ministry over, uh, overmyself and, and my wife and my
children and, and their flourishing.

(28:02):
Uh , Uh, and so, um, it became soobvious that, um, um, we, you know, in
my heart I had made a decision, okay,if it's this bad, I should step down.
Um, and, and I, I'm, I'm noteven qualified to be a pastor.
Uh, but at the last moment,the Lord stepped forward.

(28:22):
He changed, uh, changed things around.
And as I was about to tendermy resignation, uh, the
situation totally changed.
Uh, and, and it was animportant lesson for me.
Uh, I, I should really pay attentionto how I am doing, how my wife is
doing, how my children is doing.
I should never be thatperson who is so busy.

(28:44):
That my marriage suffers, thatmy children suffer, that I
suffer, that I'm burning out.
When you read about burnout among pastors,you read about scandals and you think
about how did they end up this way?
Uh, I think it's becausethe order was wrong.
So if I, as long as I've establishedorder of Jesus, first, I should be
thriving in, in, in the Lord Jesus,and then my wife should be thriving,

(29:07):
my child, children should be cared for.
Uh, and then church is below all of that.
That to me is a, is a recipefor long-term success.
Hmm.
So one of the pastors at mychurch had explained it this way.
He said, there's the trinity, and whatwe're supposed to do as people is man,

(29:30):
especially in a married relationship,they said, man is to lean into God.
That is, that is therole man leans into God.
The wife leans into the manthat's leaning into God.
If we are doing that, we stay true tothe, we'll call it the Trinity of God
first, you know, then it's husband, thenwife, and then kids work is in there also.

(29:52):
But you know, you have to keepyour, your personal house in order
to be able to keep, and it flows.
It flows out, for sure.
Yes, yes, yes.
Totally agree with that.
Yeah.
I like that, that picture, I remember whenhe was explaining it, I went, oh, that's
a, that's a very tender memory there.
Uh, or maybe memory, but youknow, a good, good counsel.

(30:13):
But definitely a very sweet picturethat you can see in your head.
The next question is, whatare you most grateful for?
Well, I mean, the, the most obvious one,which, which is assumed, but I, I won't,
I won't use that as my final answer.
The most obvious one is salvation.
Mm-hmm.

(30:33):
So, so, we'll, we'll justtake that off the list.
Uh, the second one, I'm, uh, second giftfrom the Lord I'm most thankful for is
my wife, uh, because she, she is with me.
Everything that I do, uh, personally,uh, at church, at work, I mean,
she is by my side literally 24 7.
So, uh, um, yeah, we, we maybe, maybeother pastors don't do life this way.

(30:59):
We homeschool our kids.
So literally we're, we're,uh, we, we travel in a pack.
So if we, if we go somewhere when thekids are younger, uh, all five of us are
piling into minivan and we're going to.
To, to breakfast, lunch, dinnerat home or, or going to the beach.
We're doing everything as a, as a team.
And so, um, you know, among those,um, my wife is, is she has to be at

(31:24):
the top because I know spirituallyknow my children are precious, but
they will leave me at some point.
Mm-hmm.
It's supposed to.
It's designed that way.
Uh, I'm not, I'm not, Ican't, I can't hold onto them.
Uh, and, and they're, they're,they're supposed to leave me.
They're supposed to starttheir own household.
But the one person, the onecovenant that will stay with me

(31:46):
till death with part is my life.
Um, so I should, I should treasure her.
But anybody else, uh,that's very nice also.
So I read a interesting statistic.
It was last week.
It said that your children, becauseyou know, at age 18, they take off,
they usually go to college, right?
Or they could be leaving thehouse for whatever reason, but

(32:07):
your children are only with you.
20% of your life where you seethem every day, by the time
they leave, everything shifts.
So if you haven't poured into themwhat you wanted at that time, it's,
it's a little more challenging.
Doesn't mean it can't happen.
But, um, you, you wanna make surethat you're instilling in children

(32:28):
whatever the values are, that youwanna make sure that they know.
Yes.
And I think, uh, my mindset in thebeginning was, you know, this scripture
that's the little kids are runningto Jesus and, and the disciples are
trying to shoo away the children,and Jesus let the children come.
And I think I had that mindset that,uh, you know, I'm an introvert.

(32:51):
I have a lot of work to do.
Uh, and so send the kids away.
And, and the lord, hestopped me some years ago.
He said, no, you need tolet the children come.
And so that we started homeschooling.
Uh, my oldest was in theeighth grade and it was just a
reorienting of my perspective.
Like you said, it's only 18 years.
I, I really do have a verylimited time in the window.

(33:14):
Long amount of time closing.
Yeah.
And, and, and so, uh, and I think parentsmay be with children, um, you know, with
both parents might be working with sobusy and it's easy to send the kids away.
Um, I, I realized that, um, theparents might focus so much on
the children not knowing that yes,they're, they're gonna leave you and

(33:36):
it's just 20% of your life with them.
Uh, and, and then 20 years goes by,or 20 or plus, and then there's no
connection with the spouse anymore becausethey haven't focused on one another.
So I think for me, I have to, uh,prioritize, uh, Jesus and my marriage,
children, I'm sorry to say they are,they are in third place in my hearts.

(33:58):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Well, that probably has stilltying into who in your life has
had the biggest impact and why.
It has to be my wife.
She is, she's, yes.
Has be, she's has,she's sending home runs.
She's got all the bases going on.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah, I, I mean it, that's an obvious one.

(34:19):
And, and so I think my, my other answeris I met a pastor a few years ago, um,
and I think every pastor needs a pastor.
And so I, you know, I, I had mentors in mylife, pastors in and out of my life, but I
was kind of a, a solo pastor for a while.
And then I met this pastor two yearsinto, , me being bi-vocational minister.

(34:43):
And, and by that point, I alreadyhit a wall, uh, in my heart.
And I, and I, and I explained howmy wife was feeling about going to
church and around that time, um, I,I think I was almost ready to quit.
Then God brought this pastor into my life,and he, his name is Pastor Brian Park.
He's in Korea.
He has a, he has a, uh, kind of avirtual church ministry, just Jesus and,

(35:07):
um, a quite large following in Korea.
Anyway, he, he, uh, uh, I met him andhe said something interesting to me.
He said, you're coming to Godas a pastor and not as a child.
Uh, and, and I, at first I didn'tunderstand what he was saying because
I thought, well, I am a pastor.
I'm supposed to do work for the Lord.

(35:28):
I'm supposed to grow the church andevangelize and do all these things.
Uh, and, and it just took awhile for that comment to kind of
settle into my, into my spirit.
And he, you know, mentored me after thattime, and, and now many years later, I'm,
I'm coming to understand what that means.
Uh, I am beloved for who I am,not for the work I do for him.

(35:51):
Uh, my, my chief identity when I, whenI approach the father is, Is a child.
Um, so I, you know, although my, oneof my vocations and calling is to serve
the church as a pastor, uh, that is notreally my main relative, uh, before.
Mm-hmm.
I love being in children's ministries.

(36:11):
It always reminds me ofhow to work with adults.
It's exactly like what you're saying.
You have to let thechild come out of them.
Yes, yes, yes.
They're so obviously innocent withtheir words and whatever they wanna say.
They do know how to manipulate,though, I'm not gonna lie.
Those three and four year olds,they're pretty darn smart.
Yes, yes, yes.

(36:33):
But yeah, I, I think, uh, yeah.
Because of their innocence.
I think that's why Jesus saidthey are the greatest mm-hmm.
In the kingdom of God, theirhumility and their innocence.
Yeah.
Which I, I wanna, I wanna be that wayto my Heavenly Father and to Jesus.
Hmm.
That's a good story there.
And this one is usuallythe toughest question.
So what do you want to beremembered for in your life?

(36:56):
If it's like that day peopleare remembering you, what is
it that you want them to say?
What would you want themto remember you for?
I wanna be known as somebody wholoved God and loved neighbors, love
people, but I became a mini Jesus,and I don't know, just shining

(37:16):
his love to people that I need.
I hope that can be set of me on my list.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
To everyone.
That would be very true.
Well, we're gonna take a small breakto acknowledge our sponsor Transcend
Network, and we will be right back.
Transcend Network helps early stagestartup founders find product market

(37:38):
fit through weekly experiments, receivefundraising support and build a global
founder investor network for EdTechand the Future of Work Technologies.
The Intern Whisperer is affiliated withEmployers 4 Change and we thank Transcend
Network for being a sponsor of our show.
And we're back to the second halfof our show where we talk about the

(37:58):
future of jobs and industries in 2030.
So I was doing some research on athree-part series article about how AI.
How employers right now are preparingtheir workers for 2030 with AI.
And it's, it's a little unsettling.
Some of it is, I looked at the good andthe, you know, the worrisome and some

(38:23):
of the, um, roles that AI is gonna becreating is gonna be things that is
creating more bots, honestly, that cando things because people cannot skill
up fast enough to keep up with theface of what we have created as people.
We have done this to ourselves, so Idon't know what we're complaining about.

(38:43):
But anyway.
What do you think 2030 is gonna look like?
You can go in any direction you want.
Yeah.
2030.
It's, it is, it is frighteningthe pace at which AI is evolving.
Um, and unfortunately or fortunately,um, you know, when, when, when other tech

(39:04):
technologies kind of burst upon the scene.
Like, even like AWS I, I say, okay,these, these are things worth learning.
But, and, uh, and then there's like VRtech technology and different things.
Uh, and, and every time that somethingis announced, it seems like, oh,
this is, this is a real disruptor.
Uh, and it's gonna change theway we do life, like the internet

(39:26):
or a major disruptor in the latenineties, early two thousands.
Um, I don't think I felt like we'vehad that kind of a disruptor since the
late nineties, 2000 until, uh, untilAI uh, that's why, you know, I started,
uh, web hosting, onsite tech support,even AWS cloud, uh, um, consulting.

(39:52):
But really, I, I've pivoted most ofmy energies to AI because I think
by 2030, if, if you're not on the AItrain, uh, you might be left behind.
Unfortunately.
Uh, you know, take for example, oneindustry, like, like accounting.
Uh, you know, I have an accountant,she does great work for me.

(40:13):
She knows all the changing laws, andshe can spend a few hours and at $500
to a thousand dollars a year, uh, andshe can get me a decent tax return.
I can just punch in my information onan AI, uh, accounting website, and I
can get the same benefit at a fractionof the cost within seconds or minutes.

(40:38):
And so, so now if someone says, yeah,I wanna grow up to be an accountant,
accountant, I would say, uh, maybe youwanna rethink that because I'm not sure
how many accountants are gonna be around.
Um, so that's how I l I look at it,that's how I am telling my boys,
okay, you're, you're a, the reasonwhy they're, they're the CSS majors.

(41:00):
And going into CSS, because I toldthem, Um, uh, you might have other
interests, but, um, whatever youdo in life, you wanna understand
the technology because otherwiseyou, you're gonna be out of a job.
And so, um, um, yeah, by 2030 it's, it'shard to know because even chat G P T got

(41:21):
launched at the end of, uh, December.
December.
Last year.
Last year.
Early, yeah.
Yeah, late last year.
And, and look at, look at how far it'scome from version three to three, 0.5
to four, and, and, and look at howmany competitors have, have come upon
the scene even in the last few months.
This is, we're talking abouta span of six months or less.

(41:45):
And now fast forward seven years,I can't even imagine what life,
uh, maybe in the worst possiblesense, like how much more, um, more
difficult it may be to make ends meet.
Um, because people are displaced fromtheir jobs and their skills are no
longer, um, uh, valued in the marketplace.

(42:08):
I think, uh, that my ch oneof my advice, my advice to
people is you have to learn AI.
You have to, uh, keep educatingyourself, uh, consistently.
Even if, uh, uh, you, you, you know,you're, you graduated, whatever job you're
in, you wanna keep learning, uh, um, and,and understand, well, well, is there, is

(42:29):
there a future in this job that I'm in?
Uh, um, so just, I think that's our,that should be the mindset of many
people as they move toward 2030.
You, you really raised some interestingquestions because when I looked at
what are the careers that are gonnabe most impacted, accounting was one.
So are lawyers because I mean thatthe law is the law, you know, and once

(42:51):
that's there you, you're sitting andgoing, okay, well anybody could represent
themselves, you know, in a court oflaw Then I mean that itself up and look
for whatever the possible loophole.
Loopholes are, that'sgonna be a problem, right?
Where they would notdisplace would be judges.
So that's good to know.
Um, they should not displace people in anyof our governments that are managing money

(43:17):
as well as like the IRS and I think thatthere's gonna end up being, even though
you could do that, I feel like the needfor having, uh, people that do understand
accounting is even gonna be more importantbecause you don't know if you have to
go and argue a case against the IRS
.So there would be a place of expertise in that role of a somebody that can,

(43:41):
you know, defend you if that's right.
Right, right.
Because.
Everything in the, in the worldthat's in the internet is, oh yeah.
It's on the internet.
It must be right.
No, that's not true.
And just because AI brings somethingto the table, we should never
say, oh yeah, it's out there.
It's in AI it must be true.

(44:02):
No, we shouldn't believe that.
So I feel like there's gonna beauthentication, um, people that are
gonna be doing more fact checkingto ensure that it is correct.
Um, researchers definitely would bein need to make sure that they're not
everybody is meant to be a programmer.
I know.
I would not, right.

(44:23):
I would not survive as a programmer.
Neither.
Neither would I.
I'm, I mean, I've, I've kind of dabbledin programming, but, but I think there,
there's a certain way your brain works.
Yeah.
And I don't have that brain, so No, I,I would also not do well as a programmer
if that was my full-time journey.
A researcher I could do, I can doresearch, and I would be really

(44:44):
good in that area, be reallygood with the writing side of it.
And I feel like that is gonna be a careerpath that will still be in demand, but
it's more in that place of fact checkingwhat is going out and what people are,
um, looking at and believing is reality.
Yes.

(45:04):
Yes.
And the, the fact checking is aninteresting one because AI, uh,
there's a thing called temperature,uh, in the Chat GPT world at least.
And so if you, if you raise thenumber of the temperature, you're
giving it more, uh, creative license.
Uh, and it's good to have, uh, maybea higher number for temperature

(45:26):
for things like, uh, uh, you know,creative writing, for example.
Um, but if you want factualinformation, uh, then, then the num
the temperature should be lower.
And so, uh, but then, You know,there's this weird phenomena that AI
just gets tired and it makes thingsup and it, uh, owns, uh, fatigue.

(45:49):
And so like, how do you,how do you fact check?
And so even, you know, I'm justthinking of, you know, what
little plugins that we could do.
It's like, I don't want to trust one AI.
I want to compare, uh, open AI's chatccb with like Google Bard are the,
are is the, does the answers line up?
I'm like, can we, can we corroboratethat this answer is more accurate?

(46:11):
And maybe all the ais, because it's alltraining data, maybe the data is off.
Mm-hmm.
Or maybe the data is biased.
And so, uh, if you wanna fact check, then,then maybe you wanna, uh, be, have if,
if these other, you know, social mediaplatforms, uh, Twitter for example is,
you know, uh, you know, moving in a more,maybe I would say more towards freedom.

(46:36):
So like, can we, can we tap intothe Twitter's API balance out, maybe
Google Bard's AI and, and get a fairanswer and, and a debate with, with two
different positions on the same issue.
And so I think the fact checking howit's done is, is a critical piece
of, of us knowing because peopleare generating, uh, articles now

(47:00):
publishing it on their website.
And these are artificiallygenerated articles and we, and
some of it, 90% of it, 99% might befactual, but that 1% will be off.
But, uh, when you read that, you wouldnot even know, uh, unless there's some
kind of a fact checking, uh, for all thedetails of whatever's produced by AI.

(47:22):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I agree with you.
Um, if we're looking at what AI cando, um, I've also asked people what
their thoughts are about robots.
And let me ask you, haveyou watched Black Mirror?
I like to ask my gueststhis question a lot.
Have you seen Black Mirror on Netflix?
I've seen some episode, yes.

(47:44):
So one that came out this year forseason six, I only saw the first episode.
I haven't gone to see the others.
It was, everybody Hates Joan and there'sthis place of terms and conditions
that we sign and we are waiving ourability to have freedoms because we're
signing it over to whoever it is.

(48:04):
And it was a Netflix movies, so, youknow, they made it look like Netflix.
Honestly.
They're really pushing theboundaries with that quite a bit.
And I guess it's tongue in cheekis how I'd describe it, but what
are your thoughts about the termsand conditions that are out there?
Because people don't read them andI feel like that's something they,
they don't read it should be doing.

(48:25):
Yeah, the, the terms and conditions.
Uh, It's like the fine prints.
Sure.
That, uh, we, we just, we justconditioned to, well, I, let me
just have access to the tool.
Let's just look, look, look past that.
Uh, I, I think, I think you're,you're right on the money.
Uh, we wanna see like, if we generatecontent using AI, who owns that content.

(48:49):
Yep.
Uh, uh, even Chat, GPT , they justlaunched a feature that, uh, you can,
you can, um, tell it not to save anyof the chat opt outs, opt out of,
of the record, uh, of it recordingit and using it for training data.
For me, it's like, as soon as I saw thatfeature, I wanna use it because I, I, I'm,

(49:10):
I'm, I'm using Chat, GPT, for example, tobrainstorm AI ideas, and I don't want, I
don't want it to be stolen and so mm-hmm.
But, but, um, but then it gets sentinto are they, are they ethical?
Are, do they, when when you shut itoff, uh, is it really turned off?
You don't know.
It's just like a, you don't know,it's like a social media company.

(49:32):
You can delete your accountor deactivate it, but is it
really deleted from the server?
In my understanding, it's not,uh, that's what I understand too.
Yeah.
So yeah, the terms and conditionsfor legal, copyright issues,
these, I think we, we have to startpausing on those screens a lot more.

(49:53):
Mm-hmm.
There was this, um, I saw it again.
It was like a Netflix thing,uh, several years ago.
Several, several years ago.
And they took threephones, three cell phones.
They left one in the box, didn'tbreak the plastic wrapper.
They opened the box of the second one.
Um, had it out, turned it on, turnedit off, did nothing else with it.

(50:14):
And then the third one, they turned it on.
They all three tracked you.
Yes.
Yes, yes, yes.
I've heard that.
I have heard that.
Just because you turn off aphone, you just think, okay,
it's, everything is turned off.
No, there's a, there's a low, likea low level, uh, functionality

(50:35):
that it has even while it's off.
And so to me, I, I am, I'm just generallynot trusting a tech, tech giants, even
though, you know, we all have phones.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, it's, you know, I, I, I'm, I'ma Christian and so when I read the
book of Revelation, um, I see thathow, how is this gonna play out?

(50:58):
Technology's a big part of this.
It is the sign of the beast.
Yes, it is.
It is a surveillance control.
Uh, yeah.
The system that, that isunfolding right in front of us.
Yeah, very much so.
Yeah.
I believe we're in the Matrix.
I just throw that one out there too.
The red pill.

(51:19):
Which one are you gonna do?
And this is it.
Yep.
Yeah, I, I think the Matrix is probably,to me, that's one of my favorite movies
because I think it could speak of, ofvery true things that are happening to
us, and we don't, we don't even know it.
Really don't know.
Um, what are your thoughtsabout virtual reality?

(51:41):
Because I have an issue with this one too.
I sit here and I go back, we were talkingabout the Matrix, but boom, you're plugged
into the back of the machine, right?
So that you're in it,you're, you're in the Matrix.
So that's virtual reality.
And then there's the movie Avatarand you know, you have to go and lay
in a coffin, is what I call it, togo and experience something else.

(52:01):
I go, why would I wanna do that?
There's nothing there that I wannago and do that badly that I wanna lay
in a box 'cause I'm claustrophobic.
So I wouldn't wanna doany of those things.
And I don't like gettingblood drawn from me.
So there's no way I can see any of this.
These things happening to me is the point.
I don't have enough interest in thatbecause I think I would much rather know

(52:23):
this is my life, this is where I am.
I can go to movies, I.
But, you know, science fiction has, inmy opinion, created a lot of what we see.
It's brought it to fruition.
What are your thoughts?
Yeah.
The, the virtual reality or just, just,you know, even technology from a phone.
I, I remember the, uh, in the latenineties when I was interviewing for,

(52:48):
uh, for this, uh, small little ITconsultancy, uh, and they were asking
me, w what, what future do you see?
And I, I, I pretty much said,uh, it's gonna be the smartphone.
We're gonna, we're gonna haveaccess to the whole internet in
our pocket and touch of a finger.
We're gonna, we're gonna, we'regonna be able to do whatever we want.

(53:10):
Uh, and maybe at the time it's, or,you know, people didn't think that
way, but I knew that day was coming.
Sure enough, with the firstiPhone, uh, a few years later,
uh, it is the world of smartphone.
And, and when I see youngpeople, uh, this is just my.
My plug to be disconnectedand unplugged from technology.

(53:31):
And it might sound weird from comingfrom a technology entrepreneur.
Uh, I remember the days, uh, of pagersor, uh, rotary phones, analog phones.
Uh, I, I remember how free my mindwas that I didn't have to, uh, uh,
be notified every few seconds, uh,or texted, uh, um, the, the show

(53:56):
that I can watch from a phone.
And when I see young people, I, I seethem increasingly tied to their phone.
It's like they're, uh, they,they can't enjoy the sun outside.
They can't enjoy nature.
They, they, they, they don't evenfeel motivated to, there's too much
work to go out and meet somebodyfor, for a cup of coffee or a meal.

(54:19):
They'd rather just sit there.
Uh, and their job, haveyou delivered to them?
Yes.
Yes, yes.
And so to me, it's like, I, I, it's like,I think we come from a different era.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, we are a bit older and so we,we, we did enjoy a big portion of our
life out before the internet came.
Right.
And everything came online.

(54:40):
And so we know how good our lives were.
And, and it's not likewe think it's better now.
Uh, technology has brought a lot ofconveniences, but, but I don't think of
it in terms of my life getting better.
In some ways, I think it's far, far worse.
Mm-hmm.
And, and when I, when I see theyoung people that, that we have two
people sitting at a, at a restaurant,They're not even looking at each

(55:02):
other, looking down at their phones.
No.
And, and so to me, that reallybothers me, especially as a father.
It bothers me when I seeyoung people like that.
I want them to exercise.
I want them to go and socialize.
I want them to go to the beachand hike up the mountain.
Um, and, and so virtual reality is,is it is, um, to me it's, it is with

(55:27):
the fulfillment of what the Matrixwas talking about or what Wally the
animation movie is talking about.
The people who are controlling the,the, the, the tech and the tech giants.
Like if you talk to, if you, if youlisten to interviews from, uh, Steve
Jobs and, and these CEOs, they didn'tgive cell phones to their children.

(55:49):
Uh mm-hmm.
And so that, that speaks of, orthey see the danger of this tech.
They would not, they would notharm their own, own, uh, relative
or their child with this.
And yet, because it makes a lot ofmoney, they'll give it to the masses.
And, and we've all bought into that.
Uh, and so, you know, uh, I thinkthat people who will eventually

(56:11):
control the world, um, sadly we willbe, uh, in our form, some form of
virtual reality or, um, little, littlebubble in our small little apartment.
And, and, and nobody is outside and onlya few people are enjoying, uh, everything.
And, and, and, and the vastmajority of us are in a little.

(56:35):
Uh, a steel coffin.
Yeah, just like in, you mentionedWally earlier, and that's, that is
like spot on too, in my opinion.
Yes.
You know, you have little,little, like, weevil, wobbles,
uh, people sitting in chairs.
Yeah.
But there's a dark side to that movie.
I've seen a lot of stuff that goes outthere about Wally and it's saying, well,

(56:55):
it's really about cannibalism becauselike, there's no food anymore really.
So what you're eating is, uh, like you're,it's consuming, you know, the people
and your, your own waste and everything.
It's like I'm just sitting heregoing, you know, that's dark.
So I started lookingit up and I went, yep.
There's quite a bit out thereabout that one because you
don't really question that.
And so we should always be, um,thinking of the pros and the cons,

(57:19):
which really takes us to, um, our nextto last question here is what are the
ethical dilemmas that you foresee?
And I think you've been talkingquite a bit about them, but you can
just like list them if you want.
'cause there's a lot of dangers with them.
I I'm thinking about the, the youngperson who's growing up in the age of AI.

(57:40):
Uh, it, it is, uh, it, it, on one hand, itis smart to use ai, uh, for your benefits.
It is, it is.
It is terrible.
If you're using AI to be your brainand, and you're, and you're not learning
critical thinking, you're not learning tothink for yourself and you're just letting

(58:00):
AI do all, like, all the work for you.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, uh, I mean, so like, it,it's a, it's a two-edged sword.
We do need to learn AI.
I think for a young person, I, Iwould highly discourage these of AI,
especially in the formative years.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, uh, if they grow up with AItoo soon, I think their brain

(58:24):
will remain a junior high level.
They will never grow up anddevelop a high school Yeah.
College brain because they, uh, Becausewhy, why go through that trouble?
Uh, because AI is, is doingthe heavy lifting for me.
To me, that's, uh, thatdoes a disservice to them.
Uh, uh, I think in general, population isbeing dumbed down because of technology.

(58:49):
Yes.
Like, like, like how many peoplecan even remember phone numbers?
Uh, because there's, there's no need to.
I don't know.
I know, I don't.
And, and so you raisedan interesting question.
It isn't even about yougiving a phone to your kid.
There's so many parents thatput their whole life out there
and they're recording their kid.

(59:10):
I watched this one young woman,she is on TikTok, she's on
Instagram, she's everywhere.
And she's, she's really engaging.
She's very, she's a verygood actress, I would say.
And she has her daughteralways on her hip.
And the kid is always looking rightinto the camera and the children already
know that this camera is a part of it.

(59:31):
And you raised something else aninteresting point too, when you mentioned
about the generations, you know, whatevertechnology, and you said it to your own
kids, you know, technology is advancing.
You need to make sure that you're there.
You, we are, whatever.
Age that we're born into is, you know,it has influence based on the technology

(59:53):
that's been, uh, brought into our lives.
And then it's also based onhistoric events that happen.
Anything that is also in the sense of liketsunamis or 9 11 or those big historic
events when people have been harmed or.
Tragedy.
Those are the things that actuallybecome the, um, points of in our

(01:00:16):
life that really shape what we thinkand, and how we process information.
So we came from a differenttime, rotary phones.
Yes.
Um, people don't know what that is.
And when you hear one of thosesomeplace, and they have it on our,
our iPhones or our droids, we hear it.
We go, wait, what is that?
And you can tell like, whatgeneration are you from?

(01:00:37):
Because it, it has significance, right?
Right.
So the kids that are coming out now, theyalready are surrounded by this technology.
I don't think that they, even parentsare even thinking about the fact that,
well, first off, you're putting yourchild out there all the time, you know,
and this is what they're becoming.
You used to sit a kid in front of avideo camera or cartoons on Saturday, I

(01:01:02):
don't even know if they do that anymore.
Right.
And now just hand a kid a phoneand that keeps them placated.
And TikTok knows exactly howto keep that formula in play.
And I, and just as a parent,my advice to parents is keep
your child off of social media.
I would say even as a parent,uh, um, I, I'm very wary of

(01:01:25):
living life behind a camera.
Um, like if I'm in nature, myfirst thought is not, oh, I
gotta take a picture of myself.
I just wanna enjoy that scene.
And if I forget to, to take a picture,it's not the end of the world.
Hmm.
Um, because, because how many timeshave we, we just have memories
and we were just in the moment.
We enjoyed it and it doesn't, wedon't have to record everything.

(01:01:50):
Uh, to, to be on a photograph, to,to promote maybe a, a false view of
our own reality to the world and tosay, oh, we only show the good stuff.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, we're just not thewhole of who we are.
And so that, that's just my thing.
I, I'm, I, I use a little bit ofsocial media just because, you
know, we have to reach peoplein our, in our business space.

(01:02:12):
But for personal stuff, I, I, I'mreally, um, I try to keep, keep
that stuff off of social media.
Yeah.
You won't find me on anysocial media personally, except
LinkedIn and even LinkedIn.
It's, it's all for business.
It's, it's, you don'tknow my personal life, so.
Yep.
Yep.
Yeah.
There you go.

(01:02:33):
What is the best mentoring advice thatyou wanna share with our listeners?
Moving on, my best advice is, um, I, Imean, it, it is shaped obviously by the
fact that I'm a Christian child of God.
I remember saying at the verybeginning of my Christian life,
I don't know what I'm doing.

(01:02:54):
I remember the very beginning of whenI started as a pastor, I remember
saying, I don't know what I'm doing.
And now that I've gone a few years intoit, um, do I feel like I I know better?
Or I'm, I'm now self-sufficient?
If I started to think that way, I thinkI'd be in, in a, in a load of trouble.

(01:03:15):
Uh, but I still think at a, at a baselevel, I don't know what I'm doing.
And it, that keeps me childlike.
That keeps me humble, uh, without,without divine help, without, um,
wisdom from above, uh, which is momentby moment, uh, I'm, I'm really gonna

(01:03:36):
make some terrible mistakes in my life.
And so I'll say, just, just stay humble.
Remember the beginningyou said, I didn't know.
Uh, I don't know what to do.
I don't know much about whateverfield you're getting into.
I would say as long as you keep thathumility, um, and, and, um, it'll, it'll,
I think it'll keep you outta trouble.

(01:03:56):
I agree.
I agree.
Alright, well this isat the end of our show.
We always ask our guests, howcan our listeners contact you?
What is the website,social channels, email?
I usually say, don't put youremail out there, but hey, some
people are okay with that.
So what would you like our listeners?
We always give them this informationin a close card and in, in our post.

(01:04:21):
Yeah, I would say the best way toreach me is easycloudsolutions.com.
Uh, you can, you can find me thereon LinkedIn and various places.
Um, probably the most active place weare for, for Easy Cloud is LinkedIn
on our, you know, company pages.
And I have, I have a bunch of companies,um, underneath, uh, uh, Easy Cloud.

(01:04:41):
So, But easycloudsolutions.comwould be the best for.
All right.
Well, I wanna thank you so muchfor being a guest on the show.
This was delightful.
It was my pleasure.
Glad to spend time with Isabella any day.
Ah, thank you.
We wanna thank our sponsor, Cat 5 Studios.
Thank you to our video team,Gabe LaPorte and Tommy Myers.

(01:05:02):
Music is by Sophie Lloyd.
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(01:05:23):
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