I met Pam McGee at an ATD conference last year and was amazed at her confidence, and depth of knowledge in HR. I knew she was someone that should be a guest on The Intern Whisperer. A little about her background, she served in the Air Force and joined when she was 17 years old and served for 6 years. Impressive, right?
She led the conversation with Lead without influence. Those are three powerful words. Think about that for a minute and how to do that in your life. Pam is a go-getter and after leaving the Air Force, went to school and worked full time while being a young mom. From there her career journey included working for big companies such as Home Depot for 8 years, Ross Stores, and then moving to Valencia College. She holds SHRM certifications in (PHR)/SHRM-CP.
Her thoughts about what 2030 holds for us are built around AI, robots, and what remote work will look like as we continue to move closer to that not too far off date. Tune in to this episode and learn more about Pamela and reach out to connect with her on LinkedIn.
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We want to thank them for coming up
with these great listof 16 types of unconscious bias.
We have been focusing on this bias
for a little bit of time,and we are halfway through the series.
So I hope that you guys are enjoying it.
(00:32):
We're going to be talking about somethingcalled contrast effect.
This is when you compare twoor more things
that you have come into contact with.
It's either simultaneously or it's oneafter another, and it causes you
to exaggerate the performanceof one in contrast to another.
So let's break this one down.
(00:54):
It can be a bit of a mind bender,if you will.
It's one of the most common types of biasin the recruiting industry.
So when you're reviewing lots ofcandidates, they're all coming in at you.
It can be really easyto compare one application to the next.
That is obviously not a good thing to do,
and you want to make surethat you are determining
(01:15):
which one is better than the otherin the appropriate way.
Skills based hiringand exceptionally good interview
with one candidatemay make the next one seem terrible.
That's still not alwaysa good thing that we want to do
is look at that contra cost.
So to avoid the contrast effect,you want to create a structured
(01:37):
applicant review and interview processso that everybody on your team
will be able to compare applicationsand interview
answersappropriately, like apples to apples.
Not just apples to oranges.
This also comes into playwhen we're looking at performance reviews
and rewards for individual employees.
(01:58):
So welcome to The Intern Whisperer.
Our show is all about the futureof work and innovation.
We are welcoming Pamela McGee.
She gives me permission to call herPam to the show.
Pamela Pam is certified as a professionalin Human Resources with it,
which is a PHRdegree certification from SHRM,
(02:20):
and she also holds an MBAand is a specialized in human resources.
She is an influencer.
I've already noticed that.
I've met her at ATD conferencesand other places.
Visionary, strategic thinking, humanresource and operations professional.
And she has a proven recordthat she can design, develop, implement
and measure short and long term goalsbecause strategies because she oversees
(02:43):
so much at the Valencia College, which isthe recording studio where we are.
So, Pam, welcome to the show.
Thank you.
I am so excited to have you.
I met you.I don't know. Is probably a year.
A little over a year ago at ITD.
And so this is really super exciting.
As you know, our
show's all about education, innovationand the future of industries and jobs.
(03:05):
So I always open the showand I ask the guest to share five words
that describe them and why those fiveand you and I before we had talked,
said dedicated.
So why dedicated?
Well, dedicatedbecause I ensure or try to share
the very best I can to do the bestand be faithful
and support, you know, whatever
(03:27):
item person,you know, project that I'm doing
and to make sure it gets donecompletely. Hmm.
I like that.
Focused. Focused.
You have to be focused in orderto continue to achieve your goals.
So that's part of a lot of why I'm very,very focused on achieve my goals.
And also I want to ensurethat those around me are successful.
(03:50):
So I have to be focused and intentionaland what I'm doing.
Family oriented. Huge.
Spoil my grandkids.
I got six of them. Like crazy.
Yes. Six grandkidsand just awesome families.
Everything.
You know,they're my support system when I need it.
And I'm just happy to be ableto have them surrounded me.
(04:12):
Mm hmm.
So how many kids do you have?
I have two and one stepdaughter.
So each of the kids got two kids.
Oh, very nice.
Yeah. Loyal.
Loyal is one of the thingsI grew up with it.
With a identify
that, you know, being supportive,being there, consistent,
(04:34):
having someone therethat you can count on.
And that's me. Once I'm.
We're become friendsand family is I'm there.
You can support depend on my support.
So very loyal.Mm hmm. And results oriented.
I know that'show you even opened, though, too.
And, well, I think there wassome crossover with, like, dedicated.
(04:56):
So I find those termsto be supportive of each other.
Mm hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
So results oriented.
Well,you know, the one of the things I identify
or found out when I first went in inthe military is that you had to figure out
what you wanted to get to do andthen make sure that you accomplished that.
(05:18):
So my goal has always been to identifywhat I need to get done and achieve it.
So have to be results orientedand focused on what I need to get done
and want to get done.
So which branch of the militarydid you serve?
I was in the Air Force for six yearsand actually that's
where I met my husbandand he's retired Air Force. Mhm.
(05:39):
Oh that's, that's really nice too.
Yeah. What did he do.
He would telecommunicationsthe same thing.
So we were beginning of the agewhen he started in the eighties
and the early nineties startedgetting really really big. Mhm.
So you guys were like the power couple.Yeah.
Well I don't know about the power couplebut we were definitely,
(06:00):
you know,
making our own doing and bless,you know, to get where we are today.
Oh that's cool.
So one of the things that I've noticed,I've had a lot of veterans on my show.
I really love veterans.
And if I had known that,you would have just gone
even higher in my in my mind,you know, because of that.
One of the things I love about having themis they all are very obviously
(06:20):
leadership orientedand they also know how to follow.
So leadership and fellowship,they go hand in hand, right?
Correct.
But the other thing
that I have learned about themis they really gravitate towards H.R.
quite a bit.Do you find that to be a trend also?
It is.
There are a lot when i lookat my colleagues within the H.R.
Field,
you do see a lot of former militaryand a lot of it is the human aspect of it.
(06:45):
When you are in the military, you're verythere are some jobs that you're isolated,
but for the most part,it's about leading others.
The human, you know, being sensitiveto showing empathy, you know,
having an idea of how to at times leadwithout influence.
Mm hmm.
You know, you may not be that in that downlead without influence.
(07:09):
Without influence, you know,So you have to be able to gauge
people and listen,you know, that's, that's huge. Mm.
I am taking that.
I like to take noteswhile I'm interviewing a guest also.
And I use those notes to helpbuild out the description
because you're a fellow podcaster,I'm just sharing this right as a thing
(07:30):
that I do, because then it helps to makethat show description very memorable.
Okay. Yeah.
So when you first went in,what was your career path?
When I first went inand how was it to where you are now?
Well, I didn't have a career path.
I was delayed. Enlistment, 17.
I knew I didn't want to do.
(07:50):
My family trend was back then.
They went into the post officeor was the military.
So I decided I'd do the militarybecause I wanted to travel.
That was my key was I wanted to go traveland seek an opportunity.
I was fortunate to get in a great careerfield.
Telecommunications.
What drew me to the i.t.
Of information technologiesand was in for six years doing that.
(08:14):
And then once I got out,you know, did a series of odd jobs until I
was working for one company and said,Hey, would you like to do some payroll?
And that's, it's like,sure, you know, I've never done it before.
I've never really heardabout human resources.
I didn't knowknow what it was all about back then.
They called it personnel.
Oh, yeah.
And gradually over timestarted taking on different aspects
(08:38):
of the personnel, from payrollto learning more about benefits.
And then once I said, you know
what, this is may not be a bad gig,let me learn a little bit more.
So that's I gradually got into the fieldand realized there were so many different
components of it that I could do,which is what I like the variety it was.
(08:58):
I wasn't nothing against accounting,but I wasn't doing that same thing
all the time,no matter what in human resources did.
It changes every day.
Whatever you could have plannedis it probably isn't going to happen.
Yeah,because people are unpredictable. Yes.
We'd like them to be more predictable.Yeah.
(09:18):
Yeah, in a lot of aspects.
But you know, and you become in humanresources an unofficial social worker
at times, your mom, your support system,as you just never know.
So you have to be that disciplinethere in.
So that's one of the thingsI really, really enjoy about the role.
There's so much variety in it.
(09:38):
Oh yeah, I would agree with it.
And you probably.
Well then that's where you wentfrom the military into that initial role
and you started with payroll.
But let's talk about that journeythat you've had to get to.
Valencia What is that been like?
It's been pretty awesome.
You know, with my husbandbeing retired military
before that, we were traveled a lot for,you know, 20 years.
(10:00):
And during that time,I was able to kind of gradually
develop in my career from a H.R.
or payroll specialist to doing benefitsand then becoming the h.R.
Generalistand then deciding to go to school.
And that was an opportunity, too,because I had two young children.
(10:23):
So I went to schoolfull time during the day
and then went to schoolfull time at night.
I went to college onlinewhile I was working and
was able to achieve getting my bachelor'sdegree in business administration.
And then my MBA becameI think I got my first H.R. director role.
I was at a country club in Georgia.
(10:45):
Mm hmm.
And that's where i got my first H.R.
Director role that provided methe opportunity to grow in my
I mean, my career,you know, lead in the department,
understanding the importanceof strategic planning, developing
different types of programs, know
for employees, morale, building things,as well as
(11:07):
better know compensation, salary scales,
as well as more improved benefitsfor them from their travel.
Again, because of my husband,different opportunities.
Then I got a really kind of kicked offmy human
resources resourcesjourney is when I joined Home Depot.
(11:27):
I was a district human resources manager
for Home Depot for eight yearsand in that role
traveled to various statesto support the company during disasters.
As you can imagine, when you hear aboutnatural hurricanes, new floods and so
on, people is the kind of the first onesthat goes in is like part of FEMA.
(11:50):
Is that really part of FEMA?
It depending on the area, they just isjust just what Home Depot does,
they will provide the support,you know, to the community is huge.
But Home Depot is a community store,big warehouse or hardware store.
So depending on the area,we will go in and help and support
from building homes,you know, providing the supplies.
(12:14):
So a lot of
community development happened.
You know, during that time period.
And it enhanced my skillsin human resources.
I did that for eight yearsand then transition
continued in retailto Ross Dress for less.
So I was there for eight years, againas a human resource manager, with them
(12:35):
doing a lot of employeerelations, assisting employees, leaders
with any kind of opportunitiesor concerns that they had within
the companydid that for about eight years.
But and that enhanced my skillseven to the next level.
You had it.
It was in the middle of COVID.
I know too I was withwere also that transitioned from
(12:58):
working in a district office
to working at home solo by myself,
but having to utilize,
you know, teams and everything elseto communicate with everyone else.
And then also you become a moreof a social worker during there's
a lot of mental health concerns and issuesthat popped up during that time frame.
(13:19):
So we had to be active listeners.
It took it to another scale.
You know, you always are toldyou should listen, be quiet.
But during that time period is onewhere you had to kind of hear
the cues that there may be no possibleissues or concerns.
You know how I interpret that this is how
(13:40):
I explain it is you have to listento what's behind the words,
to all of the emotion or whateverthe intonation, any of those things.
Right. That's reallyI know that's what you're talking about.
Yeah.
I want to go back to somethingthat you said, because I can see
that you've been in multiple industriesand and giving a shout out
to honestly to Home Depot here,because I think that they deserve that.
(14:02):
Because based on what you said,how supportive to have a company,
honestly, a giant companythat is there to just be
communitydriven and help take care of people.
I did not know that.
So I appreciate that you share that.
Ross Which is retail industry,I guess Home Depot.
I would consider retailbut different, right?
(14:24):
Right.
You know, and then you also are inthe military and then you're in education.
So you've been inlike all of these different industries.
And I have a feelingthere's more to it than just these for.
Yeah, well, yeah, those are the last.
And Eliza, you know, was kind of 20 yearsthat I've been in part of it.
It's ironic now when you look at different
(14:46):
India vigils, how they moved your career.
Right now, you don't see a lot of peoplestaying more than two years in a role.
Yeah, but it's a challenge,I think, to job hop
because you don't really havean opportunity to enhance your skills.
Hopefully you're movingto another position or company
(15:08):
to improve you know what you're doing,
provide the new organization
with your capabilities, your assets,and then grow and learn for them.
If I have theopportunity to learn something every day
and it doesn't matter who it is,then I'm grateful, appreciative.
It just makes me even better.
Supports System leader,you know, and family member.
(15:30):
You knowso I've been fortunate to be able to stay
has some longevity in different rolesthat have helped me grow in my career.
Yeah, you are, You're very,very fortunate and I would say that
they're very fortunate to havehad you too, because
somewhere along that line iswhen you chose to get a SHRM certificate.
(15:51):
And I'd love for you to explain
just so our listeners knowbecause not everybody's in H.R.
What SHRM stands for.
I mean, i know, but i want you to do it.
And then also
the whole testing process, how rigorousit is.
I don't think people know it.
And many times when i talk with studentsthat want a career in H.R.
I said, no,you don't need to get a master's.
(16:12):
You need to go and take the SHRMcertification.
That's as a matter of fact,you don't even have to go to school.
You just need to gotake that SHRM certification
because that is the thingthat gets you in the door, right?
It does. It helps you.
So the certification,
it's a SHRM stands for a Society of HumanResource Management.
Our national headquarters is in Virginia.
(16:33):
And what's so awesomeabout this opportunity,
because I didn't know it eitherwhen I first decided to go
in, I had no idea there was a hugewhat a huge industry it was.
But what it does, taking the certificationand training provides
you an opportunity to be well-roundedas a human resources generalist.
So it gives you insight or labor.
(16:56):
You need to see that happening.
Now, do the strikes and all that
as a human resource professionalfrom the benefits to talent acquisition
and you touch every aspectof an individual's role
within the organizationas a human resources professional.
So the training they have, a series ofyou can go online and do training,
(17:19):
you can attend classesand do training to learn this,
to obtain this certification.
They have a learning systemthat has an opportunity in this.
It's on average,
you do need about six months to studyso that you have a good understanding.
And the other side ofthis is most companies and organizations
(17:41):
will bring you on and entry level, but
you're not gonna rise to the next leveluntil you get some actual experience.
So you can, you know, graduateand go and do the testing.
But they are looking for someoneto have that experience.
And primarily because if you have that
strategic partner in human resources,
(18:04):
they're going to provide you the guidancethrough those sticky situations.
So you need to know the laws,you know, from
the labor lawsto what's required and compliance.
You know, all of thoseto support your organization,
to stay straight, narrowand not have any issues.
So it could take about six months.
(18:25):
And there's two typesof actually certifications.
There's SHRM, which is
is called SHRM.
DCP Certified Professional, or
there's the SHRM ACP,
which is a SHRMsenior certified professional.
And then you have another otherorganization called HRCI.
(18:45):
This organizationactually was the original
certification provider for SHRM, SHRM
decided in 2014 to separate
from themand host their own certification.
So that certification is calledProfessional Human Resource Management,
which is PHR
(19:06):
So I'm fortunate to have both of those
because I've been interested for so long.
So I actually have two certifications,national certifications
for human resources.
What is HRCI stand for?
I get human relations certification.
Yeah, Institute. Yeah, Institute.
Okay. Got it.
So that's helpfulfor our listeners for sure.
(19:27):
So you have an option to take you there.
You can take both or you can.
A lot of people now are streamlinedtowards term certification and it's
because it's becoming more, well,well known
and it's the certificationthat's more of a hands on realistic
of what you're doingas a H.R. professional in the field now.
(19:50):
So either one is great and they will helpsupport provide you with the tools
to support your organization, which is,
Know, H.R. is the strategic partner.
And if you're a truly dedicated
and engage or professional,your behind the scenes.
Mm hmm.
As support to ensure that the operations
(20:14):
and everything else is running efficientlyby giving them
the knowledge, skills and peoplethat they need staff now to do the
the accomplishknow the ultimate goal of the company.
Gotcha.
So how do you end up at Valencia?
It was a, you know, an opportunity.
Actually. I saw like anything else
(20:36):
advertised and
it was so funny about it isI have no background in academics
over 25 years in human resources.
And I looked at the job description.I said, you know what?
All of that. I could do that.
So let me, you know, let me try it out.
And I was fortunateto go through the hiring process and
have a great boss.
(20:57):
That said, you know,I know you don't know academics.
I can teach you that but, the H.R. piece is what I need
So fortunate to be able to join Valencia.
Been here for about ten months now.
Just loving every minute of it.
The people,the students that i'm able to engage
with has been tremendous and and awesome.
(21:19):
Yeah, I understand.
And i have an interest in thisthat there is going to be a SHRM
campus, a group here for the students isdo you know when that's launching?
Well we are in the beginning stagesof discussing
that and it's calledthis is a student chapter
(21:39):
that we're looking to
engage and develop here at Valencia
right now.
I am actually the president of GreaterOrlando SHRM, which is Go SHRM.
We're the local central Florida chapter.
We have about 660 membersand we are currently have student chapters
(21:59):
at Rollins College as well as UCF.
So we're looking to engagethe same participation in with Valencia
in partnership with their human resourcemanagement program that they have.
It's a great opportunityto provide students with hands
on experience and possible roleswith other H.R. professionals networking,
(22:24):
provide them with the guidanceon the career field
that they're looking to participatein for the future.
I love that.
Well, if you need advisors, count me in.
All right.
I would love to do it.
And I did graduate from Rollins College.
I know that they do have one there, right?
I've been a speaker at their local studentchapter there, but they've also done
one that's combined with UCF.
(22:45):
And and honestly, Rollins,
when they were pulling together there,I guess it was their annual conference.
Okay.
I've been speakers of all of those.
Yeah. So love it and totally support you.
All right.You know, I hope I guess that's great.
Yeah. Count me in.
What is your
favorite quote that you live by?
It's actually Maya Angelou.
(23:07):
If you don't like something, change it.
If you can't change it,change your attitude and don't complain.
Hmm. I like that.
And so does that show up?
Is that something that you've sharedwith your kids, how to, you know,
reinforce that it's somethingand just kind of
like my my daily montageon how I handle things
(23:29):
from go through different situations.
It's one of the things, too.
You see others do a lot of complaining,but they're not doing anything
to make a difference.
No, so easy to complain,but then have no solutions
or tried to find provide any options.
And that's one of the thingswhen I join an organization
(23:49):
and I have that one on one conversationwith my direct report,
I appreciate you bringing meany opportunity or challenge.
I want to know about it.
But I also would like you for you to comeand bring me two options that we can
discuss in how to fix that opportunitythat is so vital.
It's instead of having peoplealways complain what it
(24:12):
how can we solve the problem right.
Yeah, I love that.
Okay.
That should be probably the taglinein the SHRM chapter
here on the campus too,because people always will.
You know, it's easy. It'svery easy to complain.
But then if you don't really havea solution to help, you know,
we know this opportunities, opportunitiesin everything,
(24:33):
but you know, you're bringing optionsto fix that opportunity
where someone may not havethought about it because you're in it.
I especially when you're entrenched insomething
that's not right and you know,there's a lot better opportunity.
Now, tell us, you know, tell meand then we'll see if it's feasible
to try to make the adjustmentsor in fix it.
(24:55):
Mm hmm.
You know, in startup life.
And that's where I am
many times we see a problem
and we go, well,how do we make sure that we do this?
And it applies to entrepreneurs.
I think that this quote is somethingthat should be instilled in children
from when they start school,
because I would encourage peopleto be more scientists, to be more problem
(25:18):
solvers, to be able to seethat you don't have to be just passive.
You can actually there are thingswithin your power that you can always do
to make something better. Mm hmm.
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
And everybody the challenge at times,I think people listen to so much
television in perceptionson what they believe, they what they see
(25:41):
and not the fact that they can achieve,you know, anything they want to.
So they have to have faith and confidence,self-confidence in themselves
and that they can achieveany kind of goal, you know, don't use
or see social media as the only way
on how someone got their success
(26:02):
or achieved their goalsas the only way they get it done.
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah, very much so.
Hardest lesson
that you learned that changed your lifeand hopefully for the better.
Yeah, well,I would say slowing down is very simple.
Listening.
I had the opportunity to work insome fantastic
(26:22):
organizations, but trying to do too much.
You know, at timesyou can be not as effective and efficient.
Mm hmm.
Because you're doing too much.
So it's one of those slow down,
you know, take the time it'sgoing to get done one way or the other.
Yeah.
You know, and also at times, you can't behealthy, you know, trying to overachieve.
(26:45):
You can run yourself out. Yeah.
You know, I didn't listening.
There was a time that I was on the runor doing so much that I was not really.
I could hear what you were saying,but really not taking the time
to listen, to understand the comprehend.
So that's one of the thingsI tried to ensure to do is, you know,
stop, listen, and try to truly comprehendand hear what you're saying.
(27:09):
And and also, again, like I said,
it really came out during COVIDbecause I had to listen.
I had to hear, like you said, what
what's being
said behind right in the inflection
in the voice or,you know, the words that were being said
that indicatedthat there may be something else going on.
(27:30):
So, yeah, it's a surreal,you know, situation at that time
and especially in the role we were went inas far as employee relations,
there were a lot of,you know, aspects of people
with mental health,you know, suicide tendencies.
Yeah.
And even though we're now counselors,we have to be able to try to
(27:53):
provide the guidance
to where to direct them to get the supportthat they they may someone may need.
Yeah,that's really a very powerful statement.
I'm going to go backto something in the military
and I always wonder about this.
So I knowyou may not be able to tell me. Okay.
But in the military, I feel like
there's always, you know, people listen,
(28:14):
but then there's always these timeswhen people may not listen.
And I don't knowhow the training always works
because many times,you know, you're following.
And when I've worked with studentsas interns with me that have served
in the military, I go, I'm asking themto try and solve some problems.
And sometimes they'll they'll do that.
(28:35):
But they said it'sI've only been a few years.
They feel that, well,
we're taught to follow, not necessarilyto to take charge of something.
And I go, okay.
And I'm trying to figure out, like,is that part of a listening thing or
is it just learning how to teach peoplehow to follow before they become a leader?
I'm not sure.
(28:55):
I think it's more if you think about it.
I know for the Air Force,the first thing when you arrive
is you arrive in the dead of night.
So you have no idea.
And that's just the air.
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. So you're arriving.
I mean, late at night is dark.
All you hear is others.
It kind of. It's is surreal.
(29:16):
The footsteps, the yelling,get in line in and all that. It.
It makes you intentionally be focused.
Yeah. And listen to what's going on.
And you arein the very beginning train to follow.
But they take when you you get to a point
in your military career when you decide,okay, now I want to be a leader.
(29:38):
Hmm. Now, based on
a lot of it, is your
leaders, how they've treated you,how they support you.
When you make the decision you wantto stay in and move up is become a leader.
I think anyone that serves in the militaryfor at least four years
when if they make the decisionto transition out
(30:02):
because of the different
maybe missions
and situations they may have been in,
they are almost automatic leadersin the civilian world.
Mm hmm.
And with that, they understand
what it takesto step up to get something done.
They learn how to organize, howto prioritize
(30:25):
what needs to get done firstin order to achieve the the end result.
The goal?
No. If they go in as a as an airmanat the very beginning
and they're telling themno at the end of this mission,
our goal is to ensure that a lot of itnow is supporting different communities
and we have to build this them,whatever that case may be.
(30:48):
They're going to be giventhe instructions,
the guidance on how to do that.
Once they do that a couple of times,
the leader doesn't have to tell themanymore.
It's a it's in them.
Once you do thatin different types of roles in projects,
that's automatic for you.
You become that influential leader.
So you don't have the influence,you don't have the authority.
(31:11):
But because of how you manageand handle yourself,
you become a leader going forward.
You know, so that's why a lot of,I believe organizations
like bringing on vets
because they havethat kind of ingrown experience
on what it takes to be a leaderand to achieve the results necessary.
(31:33):
Gotcha.
Do you think it's possible to multitask?
Because I thinkif we're going to be an active listener,
I don't think that we should.
And I used to say I could multitaskand I go, No, I cannot.
I'm either going to really sit downand think about what it is
I'm writing, and I hear the wordslike what you said and I'll hear the word.
Yeah, but I may notalways be really actively listening.
(31:55):
So if I. I think anybody in H.R.
Or that's going to be a leader,you need to really stop.
You really need to be able to do it.
And even though I'm sitting here
and I'm, like, taking noteswhile you're doing it,
I'm like, I'm that can be on autopilot.
So in that instance,I think I can multitask.
I can have a conversation with somebodywhile I'm cooking, but I don't know.
What are your thoughtsabout multitasking and listening?
(32:18):
Well, you know, back in the day,
it was like, absolutely,you could do it, you could do anything.
But now what I found as I grownand in leadership, I,
I can't or I shouldn't multitaskwhen I have someone in front of me.
Mm hmm.
When I have someone in front of me that
we are
taking the time to have a conversationabout a topic,
(32:40):
whether it's about development,whether it's about something on the job
that we got to get doneis to pay attention and focus in on
on that individual,
on what's needed to accomplish that goal.
In that conversation in order to provide,
you know, competent and efficient
(33:01):
and effective advice and support,depending on what's going on.
So there are times that you.
Absolutely.
I agreeyou should not be trying to multitask.
We we hear it all the time about thethe disengagement
by having your cell phone out,looking at your cell phone.
And it's amazing.
(33:22):
Now, if you go to restaurantsand you had you see couples and even
I mean, right noweverybody's looking at their phone.
He's like,there's no conversation going on. Yeah.
You know, anymore.
So that's one of the thingsI try to be intentional about now
is to put my phone aside, pay attentionto whoever the speaker
(33:42):
who is in front of mein order to show that it's respectful to.
Right. No, I hear you. I see you.
And I want to I'm totally engagedin this conversation.
Mm hmm. Yeah.
So multitasking has this is a itdefinitely has this high points.
And I do multitasking.
And at times I'm one of thoseI can't have sit in quiet.
(34:03):
So I've either got music goingor the TV or something.
If I'm working from home,
I can do multiple things at one time.
But then it'swhen you think about doing that, it's
not you're not fully engagedin any of them.
That's true.
You're not fully engaged to any of them.
You're doing the kind of autoplaythat you know to get it done.
(34:24):
But if you want to be intentional,you have to stop and pay attention.
Mm hmm.
When you describe the music andthe television, those are like background.
White, white noise for meand I can block it out.
But I've also I practice both.
I try to make sure that I don't become toodependent on that or reliant on it,
because then I'll go,No, I need to know how to work in silence.
(34:47):
So yes, I keep that balance, man.
I like I'm vibe in off of you.
So somewhat.
So let's move into another question here.
What are you most grateful for?
I'm most grateful for my family.
The support.
I've had to get to where I am.
(35:08):
I've been married to my husbandfor 35 years
and I have well had so many opportunities
or things I needed to doto get to this point in my career.
And he's been there to support me from,you know, when I decided to go back
to school to get my degree and workfull time during a day, work
full time at night,he was home taking care of the kids,
(35:30):
you know, to support me inwhatever they needed to do.
So I would say family, you know,And now my daughter is doing well.
My son is well,you know, you know, working in achieving
their life goals and acts.
So, you know, definitely family.
Well,congratulations. 35 years. Yeah. Yeah.
And so I stick with things.
(35:51):
Yeah, well,that's a he's a very lucky man.
I'm sure that you feel the same.
He's, you know,he's got a really good woman with him. So.
And that's a lovely, beautiful testimonyto give to your children
so that they can seewhat a committed marriage is.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Unfortunately, it's
one that marriage is one of those,you see people jump in and out of it.
(36:12):
So quickly. Yeah.
You know, but yes,when we or I made the decision, you know,
to take the leap and get married,I had some prerequisites.
You know, I wanted to make surethat this person was a friend and we,
we could blend together as friends first.
Yeah.
(36:32):
You know, And so,so healthy is telling you the difference.
Yeah.Just really get to know somebody. Yeah.
You know, the ins and outs and, you know,if this is the best person for you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like that.
Who in your lifehas had the biggest impact?
I wouldn't be living in dead to.
(36:53):
I didn't qualify that. Yeah.
So you have choices and it can be more.
Right?
I would say the the person
that had the biggest impact on meis my grandfather.
He was a sharecropper in Alabama.
And every summer I grew up in Connecticut.
So is the cold there,you know, in the wintertime.
(37:15):
But every summer, my mom,
there wasn't a whole lot of flying backthen, would put us on a Greyhound bus
to Alabamaand we would spend the summers there
with my grandfather and as a sharecropper,
well respected in his community,but was the hardest worker,
(37:35):
you know, one of thosethat didn't say much.
But when he did,everybody stop and listen.
Oh, wow. So just a wonderful man,
supportive when you needed it,had a words of wisdom.
But that's where I believe mymy hard work, you know,
ethics came from watching himdoing what he needed
(37:56):
to do, provide for him.
My grandmother, obviously,
all the kids, his their children,they had 12 of them were. Wow.
Log on.
And you know, when I came around.
But I was able to have the opportunityfor him to spend time with my son,
you know, before he passed.
So, you know,
they it was so cute, I think, about themspending time together.
(38:19):
You know,there was an incident where in down there
you have a lot of fire, you know,regular fire pits and in fireplaces.
I went out on the porch
and my my son, probably about two yearsold, had a box of matches.
It was a strike.It matches the corrosion in the fire.
It's like in a we call them poplar.
So what are you doing this a while?
(38:39):
You let him do that.
He says when he gets burn, he'll stop.
So it's just like words of wisdom.
And. But, you know, at times
I never had a problem with my sonin matches or fires or anything like that.
But, you know, it justhe was the most influential person for me.
And I took a lot of what he didand his work
(39:02):
ethic, you know, and what I do every day.
I don't think our listeners may knowwhat a sharecropper is. Yes.
That's a term that's,you know, a historical term.
And again, I know, but why don't you goahead and share what that is?
So this is an individualis farming, basically.
And he had acres of farmand you don't realize until afterwards we
(39:25):
all of our vegetables, everything we ate,we didn't go to the store like you do now
Publix and get tomatoes and cucumbersand any of that.
He grew all of that as well as he hadcows, chickens and all of that. So,
you know,they live off the land, basically.
And that's how I grew up.
(39:45):
I was of plowed fields,
you know, with the supportof my grandfather to help him
picking corn, you know, beans, tomatoes.
It's a surrealand kind of a reality check for you
on planting the seed, watching that growand then seeing the end result.
(40:08):
It's on your table.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I thought a sharecropper was alsothat had like a shared farm with somebody.
Well, they and back then
they share a farm with whoeveris the primary land or primary land there.
Yeah.
And then after fortunately, only
after several years, he was ableto purchase the land for himself.
(40:28):
Yeah. Yeah.
So they,
they worked a crop for someone elsethat, you know, is the primary landowner.
And then if you're fortunate,you can purchase that from that land owner
if they're willing to sell it to youand we were fortunate
my grandfather was able to do that
after several years, many years,kind of like lease to buy,
you know, when it was a houseor I've seen this also when you are doing
(40:53):
there's a prime contractorand a subcontractor so similar principles
right where there's a shared opportunityto be able to someone grow.
And that sounds like what happenedfor your grandfather too.
He got to become.
Yeah, they wereHe works the land, you know he can
or at the time he can put anythinghe wanted as far as crops.
(41:14):
But then a portion of thatwent to the owner.
The owner of the farm.
Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Yeah.
It turned out it turned out good.
Yeah,it really worked out really well. Yeah.
What in your lifewould you want to be remembered for?
I would want to be remembered for.
I would say my dedicationto whatever I'm doing
(41:35):
and the fact that I am an achiever. You
present an opportunity
to me and I will find a way to get itdone.
Yeah, That's beautiful.
So we're going to take a momentand acknowledge our sponsor,
Cat 5 Studios,and we will be right back.
(41:57):
The intern whisperer is brought to youby Cat 5 Studios.
Who helps you create games and videos
for your training and marketing needsthat are out of this world.
Visit Cat 5 Studios for moreinformation to learn how Cat 5 studios
can help your business.
Thank you. Cat 5 Studios.
And we're backto the second half of our show.
This is where we talk about whatis the future 2030 going to look like?
(42:18):
Oh, it's anybody's opinion.
There is no right or wrong answer.
We're only like five, six years awaysince we're at the end of this year.
Right.
And the butterfly,Yeah, it's going to go by really fast.
So what do you think it would look like?
And you can focus on your industryif you want flying cars, The Jetsons,
whatever.
Well, you know, I mean, it's again,we know that A.I.
(42:42):
artificial intelligence is going to,
you know, be a major factor in that.
I think back to the late 1990s
when Y2K was such a huge thing.
We thought the world was going to end assoon as the computer turned over to 2000.
(43:02):
That was the most,you think climatic, you know, of time.
I know for I didn't think there was goingto be anything that happened.
But still, you kind of waited to see,you know, the way
all the talk, the discussion.
And I think you know, 2020, 2030
in A.I., the next step,because nobody knows, is the unknown.
(43:25):
There's a lot of things going on.
A lot of you think about Chad.
That's one of the biggest
platforms out there now growing.
There's issues with it because you havepeople that use it, you know,
negatively.
You know, but there's opportunitieswhere it can help someone now.
(43:46):
So for the human resources side, we'vegot to try to help to find the balance.
Is the reality of it.
You can't say it's not going to happen,you know,
and you can't use itbecause you can't stop anyone.
No, it's already out. Yeah,you can't stop it.
Not going to take you back, you know,in a lot of no areas, no to get it.
So I think it's, it's a matter ofwe've got to adjust as we go along.
(44:10):
It's almost like almost quarterlywith it's not yearly.
Quarterly things are year's.
Exactly rightAnd you have to adjust to those changes
and just kind of um, learnas you go, be willing, be open minded,
you know,to the changes that are going to happen.
Flexibility in the workplace is huge nowbecause of COVID.
(44:31):
So COVID head is good in its bad.
It did provide organizations
with the opportunity to see thatwe do have people that can work from home
and be effective and efficient and stillhelp us achieve our ultimate goals.
MM I think it's even more in the forefrontbecause you cannot hide
behind a water cooler walking aroundhalf the day.
(44:53):
No, if you're in a physical officeand really not getting anything done
right, you have to produce.
If you're working from home,
you have to there's an end productthat you have to provide.
Mm hmm.
So I think a lot of industries are looking
and seeing that that that'sa great opportunity for flexibility.
You hear about a lot of them going backand wanting to go back into the office.
(45:16):
But you think about what's behind that.
There's a reason for everythingand maybe that particular workforce
or industry has to be hands on.
On the human resources aspect.
The key word is human, righthave to be contact,
you know, So we have an opportunity here.
I volunteer our human resources divisionthat we are actually remote.
(45:39):
We work fully remote, but we do understand
the importanceof coming into the campus to
be in, meet with employees face to face.
And we will do that any day, any time.
So and when they're wherethat is, that need.
So I think that's flexibilityand workplace
also helps to improve the dedicationand support
(46:02):
you get from yourthe employees of your organization.
You do have individuals that can do more
even though they're at homewith their kids, they can manage that.
And the cost of living is so high,daycare is so high.
Yeah, it is.
It helps families, honestly, to be ableto have that flexibility, to be able
(46:25):
to work from home as long as you dothe job that you're required to do.
MM Yeah, There's pros and conswhen you have your kids at home.
There is, especially at the agewhat age is no babies to four
is a challenge because they're, they wantthey still need that attention.
You know on
(46:46):
what I think again I think
has been positive about COVIDand when people had to work from home,
you don't see that huge stigma, Oh my God,if my kids showed up on the screen,
everybody's going to freak out right?
It's part of the culture now.
Yeah. Okay.
What is was the Sammy doing today?
You know, it looks too cute. Hi, Sammy.
(47:07):
And we just continue on with the business.
It is what it is.
I think when I before COVID,if that were to happen,
it would have been shunned,right? Oh, my goodness.
Yeah.
So unprofessional.
But it's part of life now.
Yeah, it's more acceptable.
Acceptable?Yeah. That's what I was leading with.
I go, yeah, I think it is.
(47:27):
It's like been normalized.
So it has been. Yeah.
But it also has made people comfortableto do their job.
Yeah.
They're,they're happy now to do whatever it takes.
And I believe the flexibilityof working from home people work more now.
They work more than eight hours,they put in more to support the goal of
(47:50):
what needs to be done with an environmentthat they're comfortable in.
Yeah, because it's more chunked, working.
You know, it's not like,
you know, consecutive all in one location.
It can be chunked. Yeah, yeah.
There's nothing wrongwith doing a load of laundry in the,
you know, in a whileyou're, you know, on a meeting,
you know, things you don't have to do,which normally you would have to do,
(48:13):
you know, maybe in the eveningafter you've been in traffic all day.
Right.
No, because we know I for trafficin Orlando is horrendous.
Yeah.
So you're thinking about the timethat you cut
being on a roadand it helps the family life.
You can spend the time you need at home,you know, with family and so on.
(48:34):
We've had multiple generationsnow living at home from,
you know, parents, grandparents,the children.
You know, you've got some
homes that got four generations.
Mm hmm.
You know, and the support is needed
to be able to have the flexibility.
Kind of like the Waltons. Yeah.
(48:54):
Yeah, it is.
It, you know,now they're probably like The Waltons.
And then I know people want,you know, ourself.
Here we are.
We're definitely showing that for sure.
But, you know, some of those showspeople will still know.
I guess it depends on who's listeningto the show from the Yeah, Generation,
you're there.
And so so as we you mentioned somesome things we've been talking quite a bit
(49:17):
about remote work and blended workand you know, things that are on site.
I feel like there's real valueabout having people coming on
to the office because first off, we havethese big buildings where we need to be,
there's it's importantto get to connect with your coworkers.
Now, if you're working
across the country from people,that isn't always possible, right?
(49:39):
You know, when you have some peoplethat are distributed
in other areas of the country, butit's good to have people come together.
I think it's going to be somethingthat we begin to in H.R.
Focus more onbecause we need to be able to remember
how be human, how to interact and not.
(49:59):
Yeah, yeah, how to interact,
you know, and that's one of the greatthings, right, that we do do
within division.
We are remote, but every six weekswe actually come together the division
and we talk about whateverthe pertinent topic is.
We try to do a team building event
to continue to not only workon our individual development,
(50:24):
but our development as a teamand achieving the goals and having
know the idea
and understanding that we're herefor a purpose to support the college.
And how do we do thatas a whole in our division?
Being in human resourcesfor us is all about our employees,
the students, the faculty knowwhat are we doing to ensure
(50:48):
that we're engaging,we're supporting them,
but we also need to make surethat we're supporting each other
so that human aspect of itand coming in is truly important.
And I agree.
Yeah, yeah, totally, totally get it.
Where do you see robots in now?
I know Valencia has a campus,a manufacturing manufacturing campus.
(51:11):
I know they would have robots down theresomehow.
Machinery helping do you see thatcoming into play here on the campus?
Oh, absolutely.
We actually have a robotic program now.
Oh, nice. Yes, as well. And Osceola.
So it's a new innovative really.
I encourage anyone to go onlineand look it up.
(51:33):
But it's
we're ensuring that we're providing
opportunities in our coursesfor our students to lead the future.
You know, good.
That's it's pertinentyou know, you are not going to have
everybody isn't meant for college to gothe standardized college
(51:53):
you know two or four years, you know, and
you have a typical office job.
You have individuals that do betterworking with their hands and,
you know, from welding to forkliftdriving to robotics,
know buildingand having being behind the scenes,
(52:14):
you know, on these upand coming industries,
you're always going to have manual laborthat's needed.
No matter how many somebodyis going to build the robot.
Mm hmm. And that's the reality of it.
Somebody got to build that shipand know how to, you know, work that
that that app applicationbehind the scenes.
So, you know, thosethe robotics is the future.
(52:38):
It's reality.
And there's
the key is though,there's always going to be a human
that has to manage that role, that system
that the robot or A.I.
is running on. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
So Valencia is working to be that person
(52:59):
behind the scene and teach our studentshow to do that.
Is that the one that you mentioned?
The robot program?Is that also part of the.
The manufacturing plantthat's out there in Osceola?
That's with NASA?
I believe they have a combinationof different programs out there. Yes.
Oh, okay.
I've taken a tour there.
(53:19):
That is really an impressive one.
It is. Yeah.
I Like itgoing out to that campus for sure.
So with robots, I know that somebodywe had talked about this
on some other shows,that there are places in Osceola County,
Kissimmee, also where there's restaurantsthat use robots.
Yeah, I've seen that.
Yeah. Have you been there?
(53:39):
No, I haven't been to any of them.
I have seen actually, you know, I didI went to a it was
I believe was last year and it did morea brought to us our ticket.
Right. Yeah.
Not The food but it brought us our ticket.
Yeah. Oh so it is innovative
way new challenges
(54:00):
though you hear about it takes away jobfor you know waitstaff and so on.
But you know eventuallyall of that is going to fall into place.
But somebody again, needs to run the robotright.
Know have the knowledgeand understanding to be able to do that.
But you're always going to have the,I believe, waitstaff and support
because that human interactionand engaging the customer is always
(54:24):
going to be important.
Yeah, definitely would be obviouslyin the high end hotels and restaurants.
Yeah they'll they'll have humans there
but maybe in the smaller placeslike a McDonald's now
there is a McDonald's in Floridathat does 100% no staff
and you go in, you place your order,it comes out to you and it's given.
(54:45):
And I went, Well, I like the personthat says hello to me in the morning.
So I, I want to make sure and, you know,that becomes almost everybody's first job
where they learn customer service skills.
You hope.
You hope. Yeah.
Yeah, you're right about that one. Yeah.
Yeah.
Because fast food isn't fast anymoresometimes.
Yeah, No, it is not.
(55:05):
Now, we touched on ethical dilemmasthat can come up because of Chat GPT,
and there's many
things I am talking with a couple of mymy futurist friends where we go, Well,
I think we need to start somethinglike an ethics committee.
And I know that the World Economic Forumhas something now where they do that.
(55:25):
They talk about the ethics of AIand there's also been some
with when Chat all launchedthe first of this year of 2023,
there was like a pauseon many of the things that were happening
because they went, Well,
we need to make sure that we're goingto govern this, you know, responsibly.
(55:46):
And I really like that idea.
And so I'm looking to seeif we have anything that's local here
and we're going to go researchthat see what's available,
if there is something,how can we support that organization?
But if not, we want to becomeas a group of these futurists
focused on, you know,how do we make sure that ethics of
of how we're using AI in the workplace
(56:09):
is being held responsibly?
Because many times, as we will know,whatever generation you're born into,
that technology is the thingthat that you immediately adhere to.
So kidsthat were born into iPhones, Androids.
Right.
It's a different lifethan when we were born.
Right.
And big, significant eventslike COVID and 911,
(56:32):
those things also change our lives, too,with how we react to things.
Those moments in time can be
something that can be used for good,but it can also be used negatively.
And I see that'swhere this letting AI out of the box,
if you will, is one of those big momentsin time for us.
So I don't know if the school has anythingfocused on that ethics side of of a ban.
(56:57):
I'd like to start that here.
Valencia Because I'm talking with Rollinsabout doing this too.
Well, I'm sure it
probably is more on the faculty sidebecause they have to determine,
you know, if a paper is actuallybeing written by a student
or if they're using chat to do that.
I've heard some different
(57:20):
articles and conversations
about that,you know, trying to identify whether
a paper or some kind of
a report has been truly accomplishedby the student
versus, you know, Chat GPT.
But and that's why I sayI believe it's more in the faculty side.
(57:43):
They're looking at that waysto find support or identify,
you know, if a student here'sthe thing, I don't think a lot of students
really think aboutwhen you start out your year. No.
Or with the classyou would most times do your own writing.
You put your life research or, yeah,you know, into the paper or a project.
(58:05):
So you have you distinguish,
you know, your writing style, right?
When you didn't put in that secondor third paper in is totally different.
Yeah.
I don't think they really soundlike your voice.
Yeah. Doesit sound like your voice? It doesn't.
You know, it's not your how you structureyour paper the very first or second time.
(58:26):
You can seethe vocabulary is totally different.
You can tell there's a difference. And
I think that'swhere a lot of people get caught up.
They don't realize that this doesn'tsound like you.
I don't think you did this.
Yeah, Yeah.
And that's where the ethicsand accountability is starting to come in.
You know, I've seen somethingthat came out even this week
(58:49):
is that the chat studentshave submitted papers
and there's been duplication of itbecause it's pulling the same information.
And so when students have turned itin, it's been like, well,
I have three paper peoplethat turned in the same kind of paper.
So it's not plagiarismin the typical sense.
Human on a human, it's plagiarismfrom the sense of like, it's not really
(59:12):
your work, but you pulled a chart, so,oh, that should be a phrase.
You pulled a check.
So I think that the way
I use it is I have anybody that internswith me or even my own people,
I'll say, use chat, I want you to,but use it to create a draft
to get you going
and then do your researchand make sure that you're
(59:32):
citing your sources and your filling.
And you can ask chat to even cite sources.
But it's not the sameas the human interaction. Right?
Right.
Well, you think about, you know,libraries, how they used to be so
the source of everything you had to go inphysically do the search and all of that.
You don't have that as much.
(59:53):
But what I like about Valencia, there'sa library almost every single campus.
You have to go in and do the hard work.
You've got to do your research to ensure
that you're obtaining the correct detailsand information from whatever
paper or project that you got to get done
if it makes you slow down.
(01:00:14):
Mm hmm.
Like said earlier. Yeah.
You makes you slow down
and ensure that you're factual inwhatever you're doing in your producing.
Mm hmm.
Best mentoring advicethat you want to pass on to our listeners.
I would say my best mentoring advice is
is to challenge myself.
(01:00:35):
Challenge myself and don't give up.
You know, even though there's an obstacle,as someone told me
probably ten years ago that I would beworking for a college system
and I would be the assistant vicepresident, I was like, No way,
you know, But
as I continue to teach the goalsI wanted to do over the years,
(01:00:59):
and it helped me get to this point.
I appreciate that.
The fact that never say never
and ensure that at least I try.
You know, you don't know what you can dountil you at least try.
That is true. Yeah.
So how can people reach out to you?
I'm on LinkedIn, okay.
(01:01:20):
And we'll supply that for themany other way.
Oh, no, I'm kind of old school.
That's it. LinkedIn. We're professional
and I'm here at Valencia.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's a public state school, so we knowyour email address is out there, right?
Is definitely look for Pamela McGee. Sure.
They'll find you. They definitely will.
(01:01:41):
Probably easier than on LinkedIn,I'm going to say.
Yeah. Yes.
So funny.
Well, Pam, it's been so greathaving you here on the show.
I want to thank you for being here.I appreciate the opportunity.
I truly enjoyed it.
And I hope your listeners know understand
how importantthe human resources field is.
I'm definitely out there to be reachedif you want any guidance, support,
(01:02:05):
you know, and want to knowmore about human resources.
Thank you. Thank you so much.
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Music is by Charles-Lawrence Lide.
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www.e4c.tech to learnhow you can create real diversity
(01:02:30):
and inclusive culture while skillingyour people for the future of work.
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(01:02:52):
We love that stuff and we like to makethis show better for you, our listeners.
Thank you.