November 14, 2023 • 53 mins
John Cunningham is a source of knowledge, wisdom, and positivity. With 30 years of experience that includes working with enterprise businesses that has benefited the small startup indie game studio; John is the epitome of a mentor that everyone wants to have. As a matter of fact, his parting mentoring advice is to “Find mentors and don’t be shy to ask for their wisdom and experience.”
John recently shifted his expertise to growing The VRAR Association and recognized he wanted to learn more about space initiatives. His quest for knowledge prompted him to sign up with Global Space Academy to be part of a new effort to help the U.S. achieve superior national space power, by shaping a Space Force that provides credible deterrence in competition, dominant capability in combat, and professional services for all partners.
He reminded us that AR technology is already embedded in our smart phones and with the flick of an app download you can experience an Augmented Reality experience through your phone. Tune in to learn more about John’s vast experience and why we should always stay curious.
Hashtags: #iHeartRadio #ApplePodcasts #GooglePlay #Spotify #Stitcher #Podbean #YouTube #Employers4Change #E4C #internships #radio #podcast #innovation #employers #smallbusiness #business #FutureOfWork #ValenciaCollegeRadio
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
Hi, my name is Isabella Johnston,the Intern Whisperer, and our show is
brought to you by Employers 4 Change.
And today's tip of the weekis about the Halo effect.
We always want to acknowledgewhere we get our information
from, and we are acknowledgingthat they come from built in.
So thank you Built In for having thesegreat tips about unconscious bias.
(00:33):
So we're going to talkabout the Halo effect.
As I said, this is a tendency forpeople where they have to place another
person on a pedestal after learningsomething impressive about them.
I'm sure that, you know, we all know that.
Oh, wow.
I didn't know you were that person.
That's amazing.
I just.
I am sure you're like the bestspeaker there is that I've
(00:53):
ever heard, things like that.
So this is a tendency where people haveto place another person on a pedestal just
because they're really, really impressedwith them and they're wanting them to
just realize, oh, I'm very impressed.
The Halo effect can come into playat any stage of the hiring process.
You may see a candidate that's, you know,done considerable amount of work, they've
(01:17):
been highly regarded by a company, orthey've graduated from a late schools,
like, Oh, wow, you graduated from Harvard.
That's amazing.
And if there's anything that we'velearned about the 2019 college admission
scandal, it's not to judge a candidate onthe merit of their name brand education.
So how can we avoid the Halo effect?
(01:39):
Um, we just need to make surethat we recognize that it can
be dangerously blinding when itcomes to reviewing candidates.
Just because somebody has that ontheir resume, Harvard, or whatever
the school is, or whatever that GPAmay be, or the fact that they speak
five languages, It can be avoided.
So when reviewing a stack ofapplications, you're probably looking
(02:01):
for something unique that makes acandidate stand out from the rest.
When you do this, also consider thecandidate without that one gleaming
attribute and see how their experiences,their skills, their personalities
compared to other candidates whomay not have had the same privilege,
privileges or opportunities.
So just remember we areall the same on the inside.
(02:26):
We all have gifts to bring to the table.
We all have areas of growth andjust acknowledge these people, you
know, that are just like all of us.
Welcome to the Intern Whisperer.
Our show is all about thefuture of work and innovation.
So welcome to the Intern Whisperer shows.
All about the futureof work and innovation.
And today's guest is somebody I'vebeen trying to get for a long time.
(02:49):
John Cunningham.
He's the newly appointed COOwith B-R-A-R-A association.
I know it's through thatassociation and extra.
Um, John has a rich 30 year history ofleading and serving in multiple roles.
I always like to lead that.
Somebody is a veteran, so thank youfor your service, John, in the army.
Uh, he is a consulting technologist,a thought leader, and he is a
(03:12):
seriously sought after speaker.
He is the one of the pioneers in theXR and AI industry, and he helped
organizations such as the U.S.
Department of Defense, Army Corpsof Engineers, Lockheed Martin, NASA,
Siemens Energy, and the city of Orlando.
And he Helped implement ARand VR in their operations.
(03:33):
And he previously worked with Unity,Aruba Networks, Motorola, HP, and Verizon.
John, you are just like everywhere andyou are just doing so much good work.
I love that so much.
And I'm thrilled to have you here.
Well, thank you, Isabella.
I really appreciate theopportunity to be on your podcast.
(03:53):
I'm sorry it's taken so long,you know, to, to join you.
It's just been really,really busy this year.
Hmm.
So I am, I know thefeeling, I know the feeling.
Um, so tell us about yourselfin only 5 words and why the 5?
Okay.
So the 5 words is actuallya little bit of a sentence.
(04:14):
So it's always looking for new challenges.
And the reason I chose that is because Ilook back over my 30 plus years career,
and that's really been what it's been allabout from the military into technology.
I've always been lookingfor the next challenge.
The next thing that's going topush our industry or organizations
(04:35):
forward and looking for newways that I can can add value.
Mm.
That is very true.
And you're so sharp.
I always love having conversationsand hearing you speak.
So, you know, I, alwayslearn something so much.
Um, I would love to get like,how did you get started?
What was your career path?
(04:56):
Where did you go for school?
And then where are you, how'dyou get to where you are now?
Yeah, I mean, that's actuallya very long journey that I've
taken, but it all started with mewanting to get a college education.
I knew that I wanted to be incomputers and I knew I wanted to be
in the army because my father was inthe army and I was given an army RTC
(05:16):
scholarship to attend Florida A&MUniversity and I completed the RTC
program, became an army signal officer.
Thought I was going to spend mywhole career as an army officer.
Um, I deployed to Germany andthen deployed to Desert Storm and
Somalia and a few other thingsbefore I decided, okay, this isn't
what I want to do with my career.
(05:37):
I got married to a wonderful womannamed Sarah, who I met at FSU.
She was a student at FSU when I mether and we got married and decided,
okay, I'm going to get out of thearmy and then We're going to stay
and we're going to travel globally.
So I ended up living overseasfor 23 years, always opening
up new markets for companies.
(05:58):
I lived in Africa, the Middle East.
I lived in in Asia for 12 yearsbefore moving back to the States, but
my whole career has really been intechnology, either on the government
side and the defense side, or workingfor private organizations, opening up
new markets and creating new products.
(06:20):
That is like very succinct.
So you have done, likeI said, so very much.
Do you, did you, did you seethat as a career path that
you actually wanted to pursue?
I did not.
I, you know, I think, uh, you know, howmany of us at 18, 19, 20, 21 really know
what we want to do the rest of our lives?
(06:41):
I think we have ideas,but then life happens.
Right.
And when life happens, decisions getmade for you, or you make decisions
or choices, and then those resultin different paths that we take.
So I knew that I wantedto be in technology.
I, I remember my first computerwas a RadioShack TRS 80, and
that's where I learned how to code.
And I got my degree in data processing.
(07:03):
So I always knew that Iwanted to be in technology.
I just originally thought it wouldbe through the army my whole career.
And, and, and by the way, eventhough I knew army career, that
wasn't going to be a lifetime.
That was going to be maybe 20 years.
It ended up only really being for 4 years.
So I think, um, you know, it's, it'sokay for people not to know what they
(07:24):
want to do with the rest of their life.
Life is a journey.
You do need to develop skills, youknow, find something that you really
enjoy that you're passionate aboutand get skills in that, that can,
can make you, you know, that you canhelp you earn money or make a career.
What is your favorite takeaway thatyou learned from each of these types
(07:45):
of, you know, really rich experiences.
You worked with big companies andthen, you know, you've gone into this
other route of being in a professionalassociation, which is a global thing also.
Yeah.
You know, the thing that I've taken awayfrom all these experiences is, um, I,
I love, you know, never give up, right?
(08:05):
Never give up on your dreams.
Always try to improve yourself.
Always seek challenges and take the,take the hard jobs, take the jobs
or the, the projects that peopledon't want, because that's where
you're going to learn the most.
I get it.
And then you asked me, I thinkyou also asked me for a quote.
Um, and, and this is, this isa, this is a quote that, that I.
(08:28):
really enjoy.
I know it may not be popular witha lot of people, but the quote is
from General Patton and he said thisin World War II and the quote is
lead, follow, or get out of the way.
Now, now, and, and, and a lot of peopledon't like that because General Patton
was a somewhat of an abrasive individual.
(08:50):
But no one can argue thefact that he got things done.
Okay.
And so, you know, that that quotemeans, you know, be a leader, but
also know when it's time to bea follower and let other lead.
And if you can't be a leader orfollow, then move out of the way
and let other people lead or follow.
Yeah.
He was a direct communicator.
Yeah.
And I think that's the spirit of it.
(09:11):
You know, it, it's so, you know, sooften people want to get involved
in, in do things, but they, don'tknow when to lead or to follow.
And sometimes it's best just to stepaside and, and let other people do that.
So that's, that's a quote that I enjoy.
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Um, what is the hardest lesson thatyou learned that changed your life?
(09:32):
Oh, boy, there's a whole lot ofthem that have changed my life.
But one of the hardest lessons that I'velearned is that, um, I can't do it all.
I can't do it myself.
You know, we, we all need other people.
We need to be able to give upsomething to get something.
And, and sometimes that's,that's very hard to do.
Um, so, yeah, that was probably oneof the hardest lessons that I learned.
(09:54):
I could not agree with you more.
I think that, you know, we're, well,first off, I don't think I believe
we're made for a relationship.
Um, just like what you're sayingthere, we need each other.
But I think that people,it's so interesting.
Little children, you have kids, right?
Yeah, I sure do.
Kids are, do not hesitateto say, hey, I need help.
(10:14):
But adults don't like to say that.
That is absolutely true.
For some reason, we, you know,we've been conditioned that
it's weakness to ask for help.
And I actually think it's a strength ifyou can ask for help the right way, right?
It's not just, hey, help, help, help.
It's, you know, I need assistanceor here's a vision or, or
how do we do this together?
I think that's, uh, You know,that's what we need to remember.
(10:38):
I agree.
Totally.
I love this.
I love this interview.
It's going so well.
And I feel like we'reon the same page here.
How about what are you most grateful for?
Oh, well, um, I think I'm most gratefulfor the relationships that I have
in my life, my wife and my children.
Um, you know, as you go throughlife, you realize that it's
(10:58):
hard to make old friends.
Right.
You can't make old friends.
You can make new friends, but thosefriends that you've made earlier
on in your life, you know, treasurethose, nurture those relationships.
But you know, for me, what I'mmost grateful for is my family.
And you know, people will alwayskind of come and go, right?
We know that that definitely happens.
(11:20):
And that's okay.
Right.
People coming and going.
Okay.
Enjoy the moment, you know,nurture those relationships and
understand that sometimes pathsgo different ways and that's okay.
Yeah.
I've kind of feel like peopleare placed in life and different,
whatever direction that you'regoing, whether it's careers, right?
We have a lot of friends from, I'm sureyou had friends from army days, but
(11:42):
you may not see them as much anymore.
It's same as all of these reallygreat places that you've worked.
Do you have a preference as toenterprise and or the small indies?
Because you get to work whenyou were with unity, you worked
with a lot of small startups.
Yeah, you know, um,look, both both of those.
(12:04):
Let's call organizations, largeorganizations, small organizations,
businesses, universities, youknow, they all have different,
different characteristics.
I think, um, I've, I'veenjoyed all of them.
I've learned something from both of them.
Um, and, and today where I'm kindof at is I enjoy working with large
enterprises that want to do new thingsand use this new technology, XR, AI,
(12:30):
you know, Web3 technologies because.
They can have a tremendous impact.
I mean, you can, you can changethe trajectory of a large
business if they can do it right.
But I also really enjoy workingwith startup companies and emerging
technology companies and organizationsthat maybe are a little bit past
startup and they're ready to scale.
(12:51):
So, um, you know, I guess.
You know, I'm not going to choosejust one at this point in my career.
I I'm trying to find ways thatI can help, you know, different
organizations in many different ways.
And that's why the VR/AR associationand also the space force association
gives me the opportunity everyday, just to be involved and
continue to learn and give back.
(13:12):
Mm hmm.
Totally agree.
Um, separate.
I love military questions.
So what is the best thing thatyou got out of the military?
And how long did you say you served?
Well, I was 4 years whatthey call active duty.
And then I was also in the reservesbecause I, I owed another 4 years after
I got out because of my scholarship.
(13:32):
Um, and there's an obligation, youknow, the government pays for your
college and you sign that paper,you owe 8 years of your life.
Um, at that time, I don't know what itis now, but, um, but, you know, I, and
I had 3, 3 different opportunities tosupport combat operations and desert storm
and Somalia and Bosnia and so throughthose experiences, you know, I learned
(13:55):
a tremendous amount of about people.
And about how people operateunder stress and in good times.
And a lot of those experienceshave, have really helped me,
um, in my civilian career.
Very true.
So let me come over here.
Who in your life has hadthe biggest impact and why?
(14:17):
Um, I would say my wife, Sarah,she's had the biggest impact.
And I think it's because, um, youknow, when you're in a, when you're
in a, I've been married 32 years now.
Right?
So there's a lot of experience thereand nobody knows you better than the
person you spend the most time with.
And she holds me accountable.
You know, she, she's one of those peoplethat kind of can cut through and knows
(14:39):
me and can hold me accountable to myself.
Um, which is hard.
Sometimes it's a hard conversation whensomeone calls you out and says, wait a
minute, you know, this is this is theway it really is, you know, or or knows
you back when you were a very differentperson and and so and so I think, you
know, having someone that that holdsyou accountable and genuinely has,
(15:01):
like, she genuinely has my best interestat heart to help me continue to grow.
I can tell that your wife is everything.
I remember the first time I met her,she is just such a lovely woman.
And you mentioned about being accountable.
I love that you pointed that out.
Sometimes people don't like tobe held accountable and they
(15:22):
don't want somebody to say, Hey,I'm going to tell you the truth.
I don't like to be held accountable,but I know it's good for me.
Yeah, and you know that ifsomebody loves you, they're
really going to do that, right?
Really going to do that.
And that's why, you know, those, thosedeep friendships that go way, way back are
very important later in life, you know,and I, and like, I tell my, my two sons,
(15:46):
um, I have, I have two sons, one's 24,he's a second lieutenant in the air force.
Um, and I have a second son who's asophomore at the United States Air
Force academies and wearing my airforce dad shirt, my proud dad shirt.
Um, and they're five years apart.
But we always told them,listen, you two can't fight.
You have to resolve your differences.
You have to be friends because laterin life, you know, when mom and I are
(16:09):
gone, it's going to be the two of you.
And so we've really tried to makea big impact on them to nurture
that relationship and make surethat they find time to continue
to build on their relationship.
So what do you want to beremembered for in your life?
Oh, uh, wow.
Um, I think I just like to be rememberedby my, my family as being, uh, you know,
(16:35):
being present, being there to help them.
And I think in my career,I, I really don't know.
I think it's just, you know,that I tried to help a lot of
people in business be successful.
Many times, um, you know, I find thatas a really good question, because it
makes people stop and think, you know,like, oh, wow, what is that impact?
(16:57):
Because it's always about leavingimpact in the world, right?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I don't think.
I don't think you really thinkabout it until later in life.
I mean, I think when we're younger,we're so busy trying to do things
that interest us or improvesour lives or pursues a passion.
But I think as you start, you know,kind of getting towards, you know,
(17:17):
the past, the midpoint of life, youstart thinking about more seriously.
Okay.
You know, what is this all for?
What's this all about?
You know, and, and those of us that, youknow, have children, you look at them and
that's really your living legacy, right?
The, the.
Okay.
The gifts that we give them, theskills that we help them develop,
and then watching them go offand be their own humans, do you
(17:40):
consider yourself a teacher?
Um, I don't consider myself ateacher, but I think it happens.
Um, when you start gettingexperience and you realize that.
People younger than you want tolearn from those experiences.
You be by default, become a teacher.
Yeah.
I think that in life we just aboutall are, we don't even realize it.
(18:03):
Um, because that collective wisdom iswhat shapes us from people that were
ahead of us and we're doing the same too.
Yeah, no, I mean, I look back ateverything that I've experienced, and
there's always been people ahead of methat have shared their experiences, their
insights and their knowledge with me.
(18:24):
Now, whether I chose to acceptthat or use it is a different
thing, but it's been there.
And that's something I encourage.
Young people that are just, you know,still in school or starting their career
out, um, find those people that have gonedown that path and, and learn from them.
There's a quote I heard from someoneone time that really stuck with me.
(18:45):
It said, In life, you can learnthings two different ways.
One, you can learn through your ownexperience, or two, you can learn
through other people's experience.
It's generally a lot lesspainful to learn through others.
So true, it really is right?
So so, no, I think I think andthat's why I think mentoring
(19:06):
programs are so important.
I'm involved in rotary.
I've been a Rotarian for 12 to 15 years.
And one of the programs that I'mmost proud of that rotary has is
youth mentorship programs where,you know, experience business.
Professionals are able to sharetheir experience and knowledge with,
with younger Rotarians who are stillin school or just have come out of
(19:28):
school and started their careers.
How, um, do you see nowyou raised a good question.
There's like Rotary, there's Elks,there's Moose, these other organizations.
I remember them also.
Do you see that young, uh, it's alsopulling in a younger demographic?
Uh, you know, that's a very good questionbecause we're, you know, I think, I
(19:52):
think we're struggling, you know, a lotof these services organizations say the
same thing that they're really strugglingto, to get younger people interested.
And there's many reasons for it,but I think it's incumbent on these
organizations to try to meet youngerpeople where they are and try to
let them know that, Hey, we'reinterested, we want to help you.
(20:12):
But, um.
You know, there's there's also it's upto the younger people to kind of seek out
organizations that can help them grow.
So I think it's a little bit of both.
But, yeah, we're definitely, you know,in today's age of media and always on
entertainment and things like that.
We're finding it more challengingto get younger people interested in
(20:35):
service organizations, but I, I don'tthink it's because younger people
are less interested in service.
I think it's quite the opposite.
Oh yeah.
I think there's just so many ways for, forpeople to get involved and get engaged.
They no longer have to go toRotary or to Elks or to Masons.
So I just, I think it's all changinga little bit, but, but what I'm
really excited about is when I goaround Orlando, for example, and
(21:00):
I see on the weekend, I just see.
young people supporting andserving and helping and, you
know, and that's fantastic.
So whether it's through a formalorganization or through a faith based
organization or through just somefolks getting together wanting to do
good things, I think that's all fine.
(21:20):
So we're going to take a breakand acknowledge our sponsor, Cat5
Studios, and we will be right back.
The Intern Whisperer is brought to you byCat5 Studios, who help you create games
and videos for your training and marketingneeds that are out of this world.
Visit Cat5 Studios for moreinformation to learn how Cat5
Studios can help your business.
Thank you, Cat5 Studios.
Now we're back to thesecond half of our show.
(21:41):
And we're going to talk about the futureof jobs and industries in 2030, 2035.
I know this is going to be likeone of your, probably your favorite
things to talk about, Sarah.
Yeah.
So what do you think now?
This is just an opinion question.
What do you think 2030 will look like?
Because basically we know that'sabout like five years because
2030 doesn't count this year.
(22:03):
Doesn't count.
So we're looking at really a differenceof like about five years there.
Oh, well, first of all, I don'tthink that much is going to change
in five years about how work looks.
I think the pandemic clearlycaused us to rethink the workplace
and what, what work means to us.
(22:24):
As we've seen by so many companiesthat, you know, um, where, where
workers were able to work remotelyand they've chosen that that's how
they want to, to spend their time.
And then we've got now we're at thispoint where, um, we're starting to see the
evidence that in some cases, pure remotework doesn't work for some organizations.
It works for other organizations.
(22:45):
There is no one answer.
Um, first of all, but I think in somebusinesses where you have to do physical
things, like put hardware and softwaretogether to make a product health care.
You can't do that all remotely.
So, I think it's going to be upto individuals to determine their
(23:06):
lifestyle, how they want to.
Pursue their profession, and ifthey do want to work purely virtual,
what organizations support that?
Um, but I, you know, I don'tsee it changing much in 5 years.
I think new technologiesare going to come on board.
That's going to enable more productivity.
I mean, obviously, AI is already.
(23:28):
Impacting some areas of business.
It's gonna it's a super powerfultool that can help both individuals
and organizations be more powerful.
We're going to see more extended realitytechnologies, you know, like the VR.
headsets and maybe augmented realityclasses that bring data to the worker
wherever they are, whether they'reFrontline worker on assembly line,
(23:51):
whether they're a doctor or nurse,or perhaps whether they're a pilot, a
policeman or a soldier, those technologiesare going to be used to improve human
performance at the, at the workplace.
But I don't in five years, I don'tfundamentally seeing things look
much different than they do today.
Gotcha.
(24:12):
Well, what about.
Okay, robots, because wetalk about robots a lot.
And for me, I can see that they're like,when you were mentioning career paths that
are like outside the people that fix, youknow, electrical, you know, streetlights,
anything that's electricity, I couldsee that moving more towards robot.
(24:33):
Oh, I, I, no doubt that robots aregoing to play a role in our society
and doing jobs that are repetitive.
dangerous, um, you know, and don'trequire a great deal of human interaction.
Uh, they're going to be toolsthat we use to, to make our
lives easier, better, and safer.
(24:54):
No doubt about it.
Um, and, and so, you know, I mean,when I was growing up, we used to
watch the Jetsons and there was thisdream of having the maid robot that
would do everything in the house.
Well, look, it's probably not.
To unrealistic in the future.
I mean, I have a Roomba here in myhouse that is constantly cleaning our
(25:15):
floors, which is great because I don'thave to pick up a vacuum when my wife
doesn't have to pick up a vacuum as much.
We still have to use it everyonce in a while, but that's going
to just continue to get better.
Right.
And then in the workplace, I mean,you, you know, one of the things that
really has me excited is robotic drones.
Um, the ability for these flying dronesto go do things like inspect power lines,
(25:36):
inspect power plants, inspect pipes,you know, they're doing stuff that.
Is almost impossible for humans to door very difficult and very expensive.
So, so we're just going to have toget deal with this co habitation
with robots doing some things.
(25:58):
And I, and I know that scaressome people and that's okay.
I mean, there needs to be boundaries,but, um, you know, look, look
where we're at today with the car.
Imagine asking great grandparents,you know, to, if they, if we were
able to take our great grandparentsand bring him into our society of
today, what they would think, right?
And I think it's, it's thesame thing with robots.
(26:19):
You know, there was this thing, um, itwas several years ago where Chernobyl,
they had robots that were going intothat, um, that radiation, it's still,
you know, radioactive and they wouldsend robots in there to go and test
it and see, you know, what can stilllive, you know, inside of there.
(26:40):
Yeah, I know.
I used to work for Carnegie MellonUniversity at the Robotics Institute,
and they're the ones that actuallybuilt those robots that went into
the Chernobyl nuclear reactor site.
And they actually have one ofthose, not one that went, but, you
know, they built multiple models.
They kept one at the Institute toshow people, you know, a living
example of this is a replica ofthe robot that went in there.
(27:03):
I mean, that's fantastic, isn't it?
Right?
The fact that we use usetechnology to go do something
and not put people in harm's way.
I mean, we're starting to see go ahead.
Was there something that happenedto the robot though, too?
Was there some kind of, um,decay that had happened?
Oh, yeah, I mean, you know, look,you're going to put a machine
(27:24):
in an environment like that.
Yeah, you're not going to bringit back out because it's going
to be contaminated, but there'sgoing to be mechanical failures.
I mean, we look at, you know, welook at the spot robots that you
see at all the trade shows, youknow, the ones that look like dogs.
Yeah.
And they walk around.
Yeah.
And look, you put cameras on them.
I remember, I remember during thepandemic, Singapore deployed those, those
(27:45):
spot robots out in the parks during COVID.
And all they did was that the dogswould, the robots would go and
see if people were closer than twometers, six feet, and they would go
up to them and give them a message.
Please separate yourselves.
Right now it was a publicservice, uh, thing, but you
know, how, how valuable is that?
(28:06):
I mean, that showed a real world examplewhere you didn't have to put a human going
out and, and reminding people, uh, youknow, to, hey, you need to separate right
now because we're in a dangerous time.
So what was the outcome of that?
I didn't see that.
So how did people react to it?
Do you know people?
Well, first of all, askyourself this question.
If you have, if we're in a park, andI come up to you and say, Isabella,
(28:30):
you please separate yourselves.
You're going to look at me and you'regoing to be a little bit grumpy, right?
It's like, but now this, this four leggedmachine comes up and just says in a nice
tone, you know, please be reminded youneed to be, you know, six feet apart.
You might receive it alittle bit differently.
And, and what I, what I saw, theoutcome was people were very receptive.
(28:51):
They knew that it was a public safetything that this was being done for
their benefit and they didn't haveto interface with the human and
potentially have a negative engagement.
Mm hmm.
Yeah, I can see robots doinga lot of things that would be
really good work I don't know ifyou've ever seen Black Mirror.
I assume you have yeah, I've seen I'veseen some of the episodes I that they're
(29:15):
like a cautionary tale to me It's likeoh this is what can happen if you don't
do things right in the world of AI androbots and AR, VR No, I, I definitely
think that we need to be cautious.
We need to have rightoversights on technology.
Um, because there are peopleout there that have different
(29:37):
interest in using technology,either promote their own agendas.
Or for harm.
So we do need oversight, but,um, but I think the benefits that
a lot of this technology bringsus just makes our lives better.
I saw in 60 minutes,it was on October 8th.
That was my birthday.
So I can remember it.
But, um, his name is JeffreyHinton and he's the godfather.
(30:01):
They call him the godfather of AI.
He invented it back in the fifties.
It was way, way back.
And he, he had said, you know, we doneed to make sure we're being, um,
I'll call it good guardians and exhibitstewardship around it, because if we
don't, it could go bad really fast,but it's like that with anything.
Right?
(30:21):
I mean, if we don't control bigbusinesses, they can become monopolies.
It's just exactly.
But look, I, I have, it's funnybecause I graduated college in
1989 and I have a minor in AI.
And, um, yeah, yeah.
And I, I mean, we were, we were usinglanguages like Lisp and Prolog to do
(30:44):
best path analysis for different things.
And, you know, when you're a student,you know, you're looking at, oh, my gosh,
the future of the world and how whatI'm learning today is going to help.
That was over 30 years ago, and we'rejust now starting to get into the stuff
that we were thinking about 30 years ago.
Like, can we actually teach machines todo this or can machines learn themselves?
(31:08):
So, um, you know, I would, I wouldencourage students that are, that are
studying these different technologiesto dream to dream about what are
the possible good use cases forthe, for the technology, Thank you.
But also dream about what could go wrongif it not properly controlled and managed.
Yeah.
I love that advice.
(31:29):
I think that's the best advice anybodyshould take from the show so far is the
fact that curiosity, don't be complacent.
Don't just sit there and, you know, goto school and have people spoon feed you.
You need to be questioning constantlyand be curious and, and just wonder,
is this a good thing or a bad thing?
Yeah, and, you know, I, you know, Ioften get asked to talk to students and
(31:51):
give advice and, and things like that.
And here's what, here's whatI, the best advice I think I
give is you own your education.
Your learning journey is yours.
Institutions, teachers,they're there to help you.
But you at the end of the day, youown your journey and and and so take
it, take it like it's a life journey.
(32:12):
Learn everything that youcan things that interest you.
Also, you're going to have tolearn things that you may not
like, and may not interest you.
You may not see why it's relevantthat I have to learn algebra.
Now, believe me.
Um, some of that stuff you may not usein your job, but the fact that, you know,
and understand it will be important.
Um, I'm taking a course right now.
(32:33):
And this is somethingI put out on LinkedIn.
I absolutely believe in lifelong learning.
I think that, you know, being curiousabout things and wanting to learn
is just part of our life's journey.
And I always try to.
Tell my sons that it's like,okay, you finished your undergrad.
Now it's time to start thinking aboutyour next degree or certification, but
(32:53):
you know, always be improving yourself.
And so I have to set the example.
So a few months ago, I signed up for aspace professional certification program.
I remember you posted that.
A lot of work I'm doing right nowis in, you know, the space industry
is, is booming pun intended, butthere's a lot of opportunity in space.
And I really felt.
(33:14):
Ignorant when I'd be around a lotof these space professionals talking
about Leo and Mio and satellitevectors, and I did not understand that.
So I'm like, okay, Ihave to go learn that.
And I, I said, where's the,where's the best place?
The fastest place that I canlearn what I need to know.
And I found the global space universityand I signed up for the space
professional certification program.
(33:36):
It's been phenomenal.
I'm learning a whole lot of stuff.
However, Okay.
In that course, we had to calculatehow to move satellites around
and how much thrust was needed.
And they actually gaveus calculus problems.
And I, and I had to admit, I haven'ttouched this stuff in 35 years.
I had to go do I had to ask for help.
(33:56):
So I had to, I actually called my kids upand said, can you help me understand this?
And they said, dad, here, use thistool on the web, just punch it all in.
Yeah, but.
Point is, um, understanding how themath behind it, what, what are the
decisions that engineers have to make?
I, I didn't have to knowhow to do all the math.
I just had to understand how math wasused to get to a decision about what
(34:21):
angle to launch a rocket at how muchfuel you have to load once it's an orbit.
How do you change the orbit?
So much more conversational, right?
And I think that's what learning is.
And the wonderful thing aboutlearning today is you don't have
to go to a college or universityand sit in a traditional classroom.
(34:42):
You know, you can go learn throughYouTube and Khan Academy and just this.
Unlimited resources outthere to learn things.
You don't have to takea structured course.
Now, if students are watching this,I'm not saying don't go get degrees.
Degrees are absolutely valuable.
You know, certifications andcredentials is how we show society
(35:05):
that we've, we've passed a certain,um, series of examinations.
I mean, like in a company, Um, if weneeded to hire Unity developers, for
example, I can't tell whether Unitydeveloper knows unity or not, but if they
have a Unity professional certification,I know that, okay, I know that that
certification requires that they haveto pass these, um, these, these things.
(35:29):
So that's why thosecertifications are important.
I think still.
Oh, yeah, I agree with you, certificationsare also a faster way to be able
to demonstrate your knowledge.
And, you know, you can definitely buildon top of them without having to, I
don't, you know, I was an educator andstill am, but I don't think school is
(35:50):
for everybody because like a traditionalfour year degree and two years, I
think it's a good thing for sure.
Yeah.
Because you learn a lot about yourself.
Well, and I also think, um, I had thisconversation recently with one of my
sons that, that, um, I'm concernedthat we're getting away from teaching
(36:10):
liberal arts because I think the liberalarts, it helps us understand what it
is to be human, to appreciate musicand art and sociology and philosophy.
Oh, my gosh.
Understanding.
If you can understand philosophy, physics.
Chemistry and psychology, youcan pretty much understand
(36:31):
how the world operates, right?
Yeah, I agree.
But I agree with you, you know, you know,formal, let's call them school college
universities for everyone, you know, butI do, I do think that people, especially
since our society is getting moresophisticated, um, that you need to have a
(36:52):
good baseline of, of a number of differentsubject areas, Um, and, you know, and,
and otherwise what happens is you mightwant to change your, your professional
career at some point, cause what you'redoing is, is not interesting you, and
then it's harder to transfer over.
Very true.
(37:13):
So I know we talked about, youknow, remote and blended work.
Totally.
I get that one.
What about AR and VR?
How, how fast do you think it canactually become affordable for
people to use on a daily basis?
Well, it's affordable now.
So I mean, if you, if you have yourphone and you're using some of these
shopping apps like Walmart or Ikea,where you can look at your furniture
(37:36):
and then hold it up and see it inyour room, or you can do a try on of
sunglasses, that's augmented reality.
It's built, it's builtinto our phones today.
Um, I think a lot of people thinkaugmented virtual reality are immediately
thinking these, these bulky headsets.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well here.
Okay.
So here's, here's what, what I tell folks.
(37:56):
Okay.
This is not about the goggles.
This is not about glasses.
This is about informationand data following us as we
go through our daily life.
Some of it's going to be visual.
Some of it's going to be audio.
Some of it's going tobe kinesthetic, right?
We're going to have wearabletechnology that does things for us.
Our Google Maps when we're drivingor Waze tells us to go left or right.
(38:20):
So.
The the big where we're at todayis we're at the beginning of the
next revolution of the Internet,which is the real time 3D Internet.
A lot of people call Web3.
we're there.
We are there.
It's being built right now.
The next 10 years is going to be.
A big construction period, but, um,the, the headset technology is going
(38:42):
to get lighter, faster, cheaper, um,to the point where they're going to be
sunglass size things, or they're goingto be embedded into construction helmets.
Uh, we're going to have audio guidance.
Um, so that's all coming.
But what's important is that behindit, it's the systems that are
able to, to understand contextualinformation and data and get it to the
(39:06):
users in the way that they need it.
I think you raised such a good pointbecause most people don't think about,
Oh, it is being used in their phone.
I know that last year I went to twoyears ago, actually, I went to the
future of Ed, uh, Edtech conference.
And they said, okay, everybodypull out their phone.
(39:26):
And I knew this was,this was coming though.
And they said, okay, download this.
And they said, use Google.
We're going to search for cats.
And there was cats justswarming all over the floor.
Now, if it was like, you know.
Raptors or something like that, that couldhave been terrifying, but you know, cats
are super, you know, nice and friendly.
And I don't think that most ofus realize that we can actually
(39:49):
access it right through our phone.
You can access it through your phone.
Uh, and then every day new I mean,Ray Bans and Meta just teamed up
and they've come out with a newRay Bans that have some augmented
reality capability built into them.
It's going to be really exciting.
Um, you know, anybody that hasn'tseen Ready Player One, I suggest
go see the movie Ready Player One.
(40:11):
It is really a far fetched.
futuristic, you know, worst case view.
But if you look at what's going on inReady Player One and how data is being
presented, I don't think that's too farfetched for us here in the next decade.
Um, you know, uh, I am, Ihave not seen that movie now
based on your recommendation.
(40:32):
I mean, other people havesaid it, but your, you have a
different influence in my life.
So I'm going to, okay, I'm going togo make sure I go watch that movie.
Yeah.
It's um, you know,matrix is a good one too.
Um, but, but Ready PlayerOne really touched me cause I
went, wow, this, this could.
Actually happen if not controlled.
But once again, it's there.
(40:52):
There are some good things in therethat I know companies that are
already developed that are alreadyputting out there and that are going
to be that are going to help us.
So, yeah, and I think ReadyPlayer One is not a new movie.
It's been around for it'sbeen around for a while.
Yeah.
You're right.
What did you think about here?
We just had last week.
And just so our listeners know when theyactually hear this, we're talking about in
(41:15):
October of 2023, you know, just predictingit's going to be a year later soon.
Um, we had the medicine orworld global, um, event.
Yep.
The medicine of global week.
Yep.
Yeah.
And you guys were a big part of it.
You and Nathan and Nathanhas been a guest on the show.
Nathan Pettyjohn, he's thehead of, um, AR/VR, uh, but you
(41:37):
know, you're second in command.
So you guys are really, um, helpingguide what these conversations can be.
I love everything that you'vebeen bringing up because for the
average person, I don't thinkthat they know what's going on.
So you're going to be able to expandthe conversation, but, but But going to
that event this week, I saw Sony, I sawGoogle, I saw Meta, and they were all
(42:00):
sharing technologies that were trulyamazing that I hadn't seen before.
So you know, is there somethingthat's coming out that you think or
that was at that conference that'sworthy of sharing to the listeners?
Uh, yeah, I mean, I think 1st ofall, we're we're, you know, I've
been interviewing folks and askingthem are do they believe we're at the
(42:21):
tipping point for XR tipping pointbeing Malcolm Gladwell's definition.
That's when somethingspreads like wildfire.
And I think the overall consensuswas that in certain industries,
we're at the tipping point andhealthcare is one of those.
You know, healthcare is an industrythat is ready for disruption.
This technology can help.
Thank you.
(42:41):
Everyone from nurses and cliniciansto physicians to patients.
And so I think we're going to see a lotof XR technology and health care defense.
It's already been there for a while.
It's going to continue to grow.
Um, and then you're going to see, youknow, virtual reality for training in all
industries because it just makes sense.
It's just.
So much more efficient to put on a headsetand do training rather than sitting
(43:05):
there looking at a computer screen.
I mean, that's, that's the basics of it.
But here's what here's what is itgot me really excited for our region?
Um, the whole point of that conferencewas to bring a global association,
the VR/AR association to Orlandopartner up with a Florida based.
Conference, which is called Synapsehere in Orlando to both, you know,
(43:30):
showcase what we've got locally,but also bring global organizations
to see what we have here.
We are really at an interesting pointin Central Florida where it's not, you
know, we're not the new Silicon Valley.
Right, because Silicon Valley, SiliconValley, but we are something special where
we have this large ecosystem of companiesthat are developing applications and
(43:52):
solutions in XR using AI and and we'rea hungry area where we're an area where
people are hungry to want to be recognizedthat, hey, we have something here special.
And I think we accomplish that.
And so I think.
One of the challenges that that, you know,I used to run a business here in Orlando.
One of the challenges that I always facewas that our engineers are developers.
(44:15):
Once they had 2 to 3 years of experience,they felt they had to go to California
to work for, you know, a Microsoftor a unity or something like that.
Well, that was because theydidn't feel that the opportunities
and the companies were here.
Well, we're all working on that.
We're working at bringing thesecompanies into Central Florida.
So, and bringing the jobs hereso that people can start their
(44:38):
academic career here or theirtrade skill and then continue to
live here and be involved in that.
High tech industry.
So it's really an exciting time.
And I think that, you know, hatsoff to David Adelson and the team
at Innovate Orlando and the OrlandoEconomic Partnership for really helping,
helping organize this as a showcase.
(45:00):
And this is just the start, right?
We're really just at the startof this MetaCenter Global Week.
I can't wait till 2024.
I'm sure it's going tobe bigger and better.
And it's just gonna like South bySouthwest, you know, they started off
with like 300 people in Austin, Texas.
And now it's one of the largestarts and music and technology
festivals in the world.
(45:20):
So good.
Good.
It's a good time to be in centralFlorida technology and arts industry.
Yeah, I definitely can see that.
Um, I don't know if you knew, know SueBolle, but she's with the serious play
conference and I've gone to those.
I'm, I'm pretty sure you've been a speakerthere in the, yeah, and that's where I saw
(45:41):
a lot because you mentioned healthcare.
Uh, I go to it sec.
So I see it there, uh, how, you know, allof this is being used in that industry.
And I also listened to a lotof the speakers that are at the
series play conference, alwaysenjoy those because I learned so
much about how it is being used.
And I could not agree more with somuch of a shortage in healthcare
(46:03):
for nurses and just assistance.
I can definitely seethat there would be more.
Robotic use in there, um, somebody hadtold me about how they walked into a, uh,
a clinic, um, to go get a, an X ray done.
And there was no staff.
You just check in on a wall.
(46:24):
You just go right on in.
Um, once you have checked in, therewas somebody that was, you know,
behind the next door that wouldsay, okay, you're going to go in
here and, and greet you that way.
But it was, um.
Okay.
It's a difficult industry toprovide solutions with people
that need help and health care.
So, you know, robotics, Icould see that going there too.
(46:47):
Yeah, no health care health care.
And plus the other thing is good aboutFlorida is we do have such a large.
Elderly population, people movehere, large hospital networks.
So, so we're a good market fordeveloping the technology and then
putting it to use or working togetherwith the healthcare industry to
create the solutions that they need.
(47:08):
I just.
Had the honor of going over to Dr.
Robert Masson's, the Masson'sSpine Institute here in Orlando.
I met him at the conference andhe's using augmented reality
in his surgical suite today.
This is not a, Hey, we're building this.
Come look.
He's like, no, I'm, I'm usingit today to help my team, my
surgical team be more efficient.
(47:30):
And I got to witness that firsthandin the operating suite and I was blown
away there, there, there, because.
What they're doing is reallyabout improving workflow and
augmented reality technologygives them the ability to do that.
So very, very exciting time in healthcarefor us here in, in, in Central Florida.
Very much so.
(47:51):
So what ethical dilemmas do you foresee?
I know you touched on some of them.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, geez.
There's, there's, you know, look,it's, it's like, um, I think at a high
level, it's like, where, where is it?
Where's the right placesto use technology?
And to what extent do you use technology?
You know, I, you know, the humans arestill really important and you can't
(48:14):
solve every human problem with technology.
Um, and I think that'sthe real ethical dilemma.
Now we get into military use.
There's a whole nother areaof, of who makes the decisions
about what things to do.
Um, and that's way above my paygrade, but I definitely think
it's something that, you know, weneed to, we need to be mindful of.
Um, and make sure thatwe got controls in place.
(48:37):
And the other thing really that Ithink the area that I'm concerned
about is more about informationpeople's personal information.
And that's not an XR thing.
Um, but it does, youknow, when you're using.
If you, if you have augmentedreality glasses on and you're walking
around, you're capturing data, you'recapturing images and, you know,
(48:57):
people can learn a lot about whatyou're seeing and what you're doing.
So we just, we just got to makesure we got good checks and
balances in there and not overreact.
Too, too much on one side or the other.
Okay.
So best mentoring advice.
I know that, um, that ethical dilemmaswas like really good mentoring
(49:20):
advice, but do you have something?
I think, I think, you know, I think thebest mentoring advice for, for young
people that are looking at, you know,they're still in school or just start fine
mentors go, don't, don't be shy to ask.
Look, people, people 30, 40 years of, of.
Business or education.
They want to share their knowledge.
They want to share their experience.
(49:42):
And don't be afraid to just go ask andsay, Hey, I would like to talk to you.
Can you answer some questions for me?
Um, okay.
I mean, people, people want to share,but, you know, people aren't gonna, you
know, like, I'm not going to go out andtry to find students that I can help.
But if someone comes and says,Hey, can you give me some advice
(50:03):
on this or help me with this?
Absolutely be glad to, or pointhim in the right direction where
somebody else can help him.
Yeah, I assume that you guysare going to be at the upcoming
ITSEC conference, right?
Oh boy, of course, we can't miss ITSEC.
No, no way.
Um, do you guys also show up at IAAPA?
I know that's a right of way.
IAAPA, yeah, I'll be atIAAPA, I'll be at ITSEC, yes.
(50:25):
Now we may not, you know, we're notgoing to have an association booth,
but there will be a lot of our membersthat will have their booths that
we'll be going in and supporting.
Thank you.
Gotcha.
Well, how can people reach out to you?
We always provide your LinkedIn.
Please reach out to me on LinkedIn.
Um, and that's another advicethat I would have for, for folks
(50:47):
coming into, you know, coming outof college or into the workforces.
LinkedIn is really becoming a very, verypowerful professional networking platform.
And I've, I've been encouragingboth my sons to, to really, you
know, get on LinkedIn, use it, getconnected, develop relationships.
Um, and um, so that's the way I would sayif people wanna reach out to me is, is
(51:09):
reach, reach out to me through LinkedIn.
And what is the website for VR/AR?
It is www.thevrara.com.
www.thevrara.com One word.
thevrara.com.
There we go.
(51:30):
And it's a national organization, right?
Oh, it's global.
It's a global organization.
It's all over the world.
Um, we have 60,000 people on ourdistribution list, about 7,000 members.
Um, we're really the, we're reallytrying to be the, the association
for the XR industry, right?
Where people that want to learn about thetechnology that want to do business go.
(51:53):
And that's what associations do, right?
It's supposed to be a.
Uh, and, and we're tryingto get very focused on XR.
Yeah.
Well, John, I want to thank you somuch for being a guest on the show.
And I just, uh, I'm so thankful that Igot to have this conversation because
it's, it's hard to get FaceTime withyou because you're very popular.
There's always a circleof people around you.
(52:15):
Well, thank you so much.
I appreciate it, Isabella.
And I, and I appreciateeverything that you're doing.
And, uh, you know, anytime you needsomething, please feel free to reach out.
I sure will.
Thank you so much.
You're welcome.
We want to thank our sponsor, Cat5Studios, and thank you to our video
team, Gabe LaPorte, Tommy Myers,Andrew Pigott, and Julissa Hurtado.
(52:36):
Music is by Charles LawrenceLide, and you can visit
Employers4Change at www.e4c.tech.
To learn how you can create realdiversity and inclusive culture while
scaling your people for the future work.
Thank you for supporting the InternWhisperer by subscribing to us on
Podbean, our Employers 4 ChangeYouTube channel, or streaming from
your favorite podcast channel.
Hi, my name is Isabella Johnston,the Intern Whisperer, and our show is
brought to you by Employers 4 Change.
And today's tip of the weekis about the Halo effect.
We always want to acknowledgewhere we get our information
from, and we are acknowledgingthat they come from built in.
So thank you Built In for having thesegreat tips about unconscious bias.
(00:33):
So we're going to talkabout the Halo effect.
As I said, this is a tendency forpeople where they have to place another
person on a pedestal after learningsomething impressive about them.
I'm sure that, you know, we all know that.
Oh, wow.
I didn't know you were that person.
That's amazing.
I just.
I am sure you're like the bestspeaker there is that I've
(00:53):
ever heard, things like that.
So this is a tendency where people haveto place another person on a pedestal just
because they're really, really impressedwith them and they're wanting them to
just realize, oh, I'm very impressed.
The Halo effect can come into playat any stage of the hiring process.
You may see a candidate that's, you know,done considerable amount of work, they've
(01:17):
been highly regarded by a company, orthey've graduated from a late schools,
like, Oh, wow, you graduated from Harvard.
That's amazing.
And if there's anything that we'velearned about the 2019 college admission
scandal, it's not to judge a candidate onthe merit of their name brand education.
So how can we avoid the Halo effect?
(01:39):
Um, we just need to make surethat we recognize that it can
be dangerously blinding when itcomes to reviewing candidates.
Just because somebody has that ontheir resume, Harvard, or whatever
the school is, or whatever that GPAmay be, or the fact that they speak
five languages, It can be avoided.
So when reviewing a stack ofapplications, you're probably looking
(02:01):
for something unique that makes acandidate stand out from the rest.
When you do this, also consider thecandidate without that one gleaming
attribute and see how their experiences,their skills, their personalities
compared to other candidates whomay not have had the same privilege,
privileges or opportunities.
So just remember we areall the same on the inside.
(02:26):
We all have gifts to bring to the table.
We all have areas of growth andjust acknowledge these people, you
know, that are just like all of us.
Welcome to the Intern Whisperer.
Our show is all about thefuture of work and innovation.
So welcome to the Intern Whisperer shows.
All about the futureof work and innovation.
And today's guest is somebody I'vebeen trying to get for a long time.
(02:49):
John Cunningham.
He's the newly appointed COOwith B-R-A-R-A association.
I know it's through thatassociation and extra.
Um, John has a rich 30 year history ofleading and serving in multiple roles.
I always like to lead that.
Somebody is a veteran, so thank youfor your service, John, in the army.
Uh, he is a consulting technologist,a thought leader, and he is a
(03:12):
seriously sought after speaker.
He is the one of the pioneers in theXR and AI industry, and he helped
organizations such as the U.S.
Department of Defense, Army Corpsof Engineers, Lockheed Martin, NASA,
Siemens Energy, and the city of Orlando.
And he Helped implement ARand VR in their operations.
(03:33):
And he previously worked with Unity,Aruba Networks, Motorola, HP, and Verizon.
John, you are just like everywhere andyou are just doing so much good work.
I love that so much.
And I'm thrilled to have you here.
Well, thank you, Isabella.
I really appreciate theopportunity to be on your podcast.
(03:53):
I'm sorry it's taken so long,you know, to, to join you.
It's just been really,really busy this year.
Hmm.
So I am, I know thefeeling, I know the feeling.
Um, so tell us about yourselfin only 5 words and why the 5?
Okay.
So the 5 words is actuallya little bit of a sentence.
(04:14):
So it's always looking for new challenges.
And the reason I chose that is because Ilook back over my 30 plus years career,
and that's really been what it's been allabout from the military into technology.
I've always been lookingfor the next challenge.
The next thing that's going topush our industry or organizations
(04:35):
forward and looking for newways that I can can add value.
Mm.
That is very true.
And you're so sharp.
I always love having conversationsand hearing you speak.
So, you know, I, alwayslearn something so much.
Um, I would love to get like,how did you get started?
What was your career path?
(04:56):
Where did you go for school?
And then where are you, how'dyou get to where you are now?
Yeah, I mean, that's actuallya very long journey that I've
taken, but it all started with mewanting to get a college education.
I knew that I wanted to be incomputers and I knew I wanted to be
in the army because my father was inthe army and I was given an army RTC
(05:16):
scholarship to attend Florida A&MUniversity and I completed the RTC
program, became an army signal officer.
Thought I was going to spend mywhole career as an army officer.
Um, I deployed to Germany andthen deployed to Desert Storm and
Somalia and a few other thingsbefore I decided, okay, this isn't
what I want to do with my career.
(05:37):
I got married to a wonderful womannamed Sarah, who I met at FSU.
She was a student at FSU when I mether and we got married and decided,
okay, I'm going to get out of thearmy and then We're going to stay
and we're going to travel globally.
So I ended up living overseasfor 23 years, always opening
up new markets for companies.
(05:58):
I lived in Africa, the Middle East.
I lived in in Asia for 12 yearsbefore moving back to the States, but
my whole career has really been intechnology, either on the government
side and the defense side, or workingfor private organizations, opening up
new markets and creating new products.
(06:20):
That is like very succinct.
So you have done, likeI said, so very much.
Do you, did you, did you seethat as a career path that
you actually wanted to pursue?
I did not.
I, you know, I think, uh, you know, howmany of us at 18, 19, 20, 21 really know
what we want to do the rest of our lives?
(06:41):
I think we have ideas,but then life happens.
Right.
And when life happens, decisions getmade for you, or you make decisions
or choices, and then those resultin different paths that we take.
So I knew that I wantedto be in technology.
I, I remember my first computerwas a RadioShack TRS 80, and
that's where I learned how to code.
And I got my degree in data processing.
(07:03):
So I always knew that Iwanted to be in technology.
I just originally thought it wouldbe through the army my whole career.
And, and, and by the way, eventhough I knew army career, that
wasn't going to be a lifetime.
That was going to be maybe 20 years.
It ended up only really being for 4 years.
So I think, um, you know, it's, it'sokay for people not to know what they
(07:24):
want to do with the rest of their life.
Life is a journey.
You do need to develop skills, youknow, find something that you really
enjoy that you're passionate aboutand get skills in that, that can,
can make you, you know, that you canhelp you earn money or make a career.
What is your favorite takeaway thatyou learned from each of these types
(07:45):
of, you know, really rich experiences.
You worked with big companies andthen, you know, you've gone into this
other route of being in a professionalassociation, which is a global thing also.
Yeah.
You know, the thing that I've taken awayfrom all these experiences is, um, I,
I love, you know, never give up, right?
(08:05):
Never give up on your dreams.
Always try to improve yourself.
Always seek challenges and take the,take the hard jobs, take the jobs
or the, the projects that peopledon't want, because that's where
you're going to learn the most.
I get it.
And then you asked me, I thinkyou also asked me for a quote.
Um, and, and this is, this isa, this is a quote that, that I.
(08:28):
really enjoy.
I know it may not be popular witha lot of people, but the quote is
from General Patton and he said thisin World War II and the quote is
lead, follow, or get out of the way.
Now, now, and, and, and a lot of peopledon't like that because General Patton
was a somewhat of an abrasive individual.
(08:50):
But no one can argue thefact that he got things done.
Okay.
And so, you know, that that quotemeans, you know, be a leader, but
also know when it's time to bea follower and let other lead.
And if you can't be a leader orfollow, then move out of the way
and let other people lead or follow.
Yeah.
He was a direct communicator.
Yeah.
And I think that's the spirit of it.
(09:11):
You know, it, it's so, you know, sooften people want to get involved
in, in do things, but they, don'tknow when to lead or to follow.
And sometimes it's best just to stepaside and, and let other people do that.
So that's, that's a quote that I enjoy.
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Um, what is the hardest lesson thatyou learned that changed your life?
(09:32):
Oh, boy, there's a whole lot ofthem that have changed my life.
But one of the hardest lessons that I'velearned is that, um, I can't do it all.
I can't do it myself.
You know, we, we all need other people.
We need to be able to give upsomething to get something.
And, and sometimes that's,that's very hard to do.
Um, so, yeah, that was probably oneof the hardest lessons that I learned.
(09:54):
I could not agree with you more.
I think that, you know, we're, well,first off, I don't think I believe
we're made for a relationship.
Um, just like what you're sayingthere, we need each other.
But I think that people,it's so interesting.
Little children, you have kids, right?
Yeah, I sure do.
Kids are, do not hesitateto say, hey, I need help.
(10:14):
But adults don't like to say that.
That is absolutely true.
For some reason, we, you know,we've been conditioned that
it's weakness to ask for help.
And I actually think it's a strength ifyou can ask for help the right way, right?
It's not just, hey, help, help, help.
It's, you know, I need assistanceor here's a vision or, or
how do we do this together?
I think that's, uh, You know,that's what we need to remember.
(10:38):
I agree.
Totally.
I love this.
I love this interview.
It's going so well.
And I feel like we'reon the same page here.
How about what are you most grateful for?
Oh, well, um, I think I'm most gratefulfor the relationships that I have
in my life, my wife and my children.
Um, you know, as you go throughlife, you realize that it's
(10:58):
hard to make old friends.
Right.
You can't make old friends.
You can make new friends, but thosefriends that you've made earlier
on in your life, you know, treasurethose, nurture those relationships.
But you know, for me, what I'mmost grateful for is my family.
And you know, people will alwayskind of come and go, right?
We know that that definitely happens.
(11:20):
And that's okay.
Right.
People coming and going.
Okay.
Enjoy the moment, you know,nurture those relationships and
understand that sometimes pathsgo different ways and that's okay.
Yeah.
I've kind of feel like peopleare placed in life and different,
whatever direction that you'regoing, whether it's careers, right?
We have a lot of friends from, I'm sureyou had friends from army days, but
(11:42):
you may not see them as much anymore.
It's same as all of these reallygreat places that you've worked.
Do you have a preference as toenterprise and or the small indies?
Because you get to work whenyou were with unity, you worked
with a lot of small startups.
Yeah, you know, um,look, both both of those.
(12:04):
Let's call organizations, largeorganizations, small organizations,
businesses, universities, youknow, they all have different,
different characteristics.
I think, um, I've, I'veenjoyed all of them.
I've learned something from both of them.
Um, and, and today where I'm kindof at is I enjoy working with large
enterprises that want to do new thingsand use this new technology, XR, AI,
(12:30):
you know, Web3 technologies because.
They can have a tremendous impact.
I mean, you can, you can changethe trajectory of a large
business if they can do it right.
But I also really enjoy workingwith startup companies and emerging
technology companies and organizationsthat maybe are a little bit past
startup and they're ready to scale.
(12:51):
So, um, you know, I guess.
You know, I'm not going to choosejust one at this point in my career.
I I'm trying to find ways thatI can help, you know, different
organizations in many different ways.
And that's why the VR/AR associationand also the space force association
gives me the opportunity everyday, just to be involved and
continue to learn and give back.
(13:12):
Mm hmm.
Totally agree.
Um, separate.
I love military questions.
So what is the best thing thatyou got out of the military?
And how long did you say you served?
Well, I was 4 years whatthey call active duty.
And then I was also in the reservesbecause I, I owed another 4 years after
I got out because of my scholarship.
(13:32):
Um, and there's an obligation, youknow, the government pays for your
college and you sign that paper,you owe 8 years of your life.
Um, at that time, I don't know what itis now, but, um, but, you know, I, and
I had 3, 3 different opportunities tosupport combat operations and desert storm
and Somalia and Bosnia and so throughthose experiences, you know, I learned
(13:55):
a tremendous amount of about people.
And about how people operateunder stress and in good times.
And a lot of those experienceshave, have really helped me,
um, in my civilian career.
Very true.
So let me come over here.
Who in your life has hadthe biggest impact and why?
(14:17):
Um, I would say my wife, Sarah,she's had the biggest impact.
And I think it's because, um, youknow, when you're in a, when you're
in a, I've been married 32 years now.
Right?
So there's a lot of experience thereand nobody knows you better than the
person you spend the most time with.
And she holds me accountable.
You know, she, she's one of those peoplethat kind of can cut through and knows
(14:39):
me and can hold me accountable to myself.
Um, which is hard.
Sometimes it's a hard conversation whensomeone calls you out and says, wait a
minute, you know, this is this is theway it really is, you know, or or knows
you back when you were a very differentperson and and so and so I think, you
know, having someone that that holdsyou accountable and genuinely has,
(15:01):
like, she genuinely has my best interestat heart to help me continue to grow.
I can tell that your wife is everything.
I remember the first time I met her,she is just such a lovely woman.
And you mentioned about being accountable.
I love that you pointed that out.
Sometimes people don't like tobe held accountable and they
(15:22):
don't want somebody to say, Hey,I'm going to tell you the truth.
I don't like to be held accountable,but I know it's good for me.
Yeah, and you know that ifsomebody loves you, they're
really going to do that, right?
Really going to do that.
And that's why, you know, those, thosedeep friendships that go way, way back are
very important later in life, you know,and I, and like, I tell my, my two sons,
(15:46):
um, I have, I have two sons, one's 24,he's a second lieutenant in the air force.
Um, and I have a second son who's asophomore at the United States Air
Force academies and wearing my airforce dad shirt, my proud dad shirt.
Um, and they're five years apart.
But we always told them,listen, you two can't fight.
You have to resolve your differences.
You have to be friends because laterin life, you know, when mom and I are
(16:09):
gone, it's going to be the two of you.
And so we've really tried to makea big impact on them to nurture
that relationship and make surethat they find time to continue
to build on their relationship.
So what do you want to beremembered for in your life?
Oh, uh, wow.
Um, I think I just like to be rememberedby my, my family as being, uh, you know,
(16:35):
being present, being there to help them.
And I think in my career,I, I really don't know.
I think it's just, you know,that I tried to help a lot of
people in business be successful.
Many times, um, you know, I find thatas a really good question, because it
makes people stop and think, you know,like, oh, wow, what is that impact?
(16:57):
Because it's always about leavingimpact in the world, right?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I don't think.
I don't think you really thinkabout it until later in life.
I mean, I think when we're younger,we're so busy trying to do things
that interest us or improvesour lives or pursues a passion.
But I think as you start, you know,kind of getting towards, you know,
(17:17):
the past, the midpoint of life, youstart thinking about more seriously.
Okay.
You know, what is this all for?
What's this all about?
You know, and, and those of us that, youknow, have children, you look at them and
that's really your living legacy, right?
The, the.
Okay.
The gifts that we give them, theskills that we help them develop,
and then watching them go offand be their own humans, do you
(17:40):
consider yourself a teacher?
Um, I don't consider myself ateacher, but I think it happens.
Um, when you start gettingexperience and you realize that.
People younger than you want tolearn from those experiences.
You be by default, become a teacher.
Yeah.
I think that in life we just aboutall are, we don't even realize it.
(18:03):
Um, because that collective wisdom iswhat shapes us from people that were
ahead of us and we're doing the same too.
Yeah, no, I mean, I look back ateverything that I've experienced, and
there's always been people ahead of methat have shared their experiences, their
insights and their knowledge with me.
(18:24):
Now, whether I chose to acceptthat or use it is a different
thing, but it's been there.
And that's something I encourage.
Young people that are just, you know,still in school or starting their career
out, um, find those people that have gonedown that path and, and learn from them.
There's a quote I heard from someoneone time that really stuck with me.
(18:45):
It said, In life, you can learnthings two different ways.
One, you can learn through your ownexperience, or two, you can learn
through other people's experience.
It's generally a lot lesspainful to learn through others.
So true, it really is right?
So so, no, I think I think andthat's why I think mentoring
(19:06):
programs are so important.
I'm involved in rotary.
I've been a Rotarian for 12 to 15 years.
And one of the programs that I'mmost proud of that rotary has is
youth mentorship programs where,you know, experience business.
Professionals are able to sharetheir experience and knowledge with,
with younger Rotarians who are stillin school or just have come out of
(19:28):
school and started their careers.
How, um, do you see nowyou raised a good question.
There's like Rotary, there's Elks,there's Moose, these other organizations.
I remember them also.
Do you see that young, uh, it's alsopulling in a younger demographic?
Uh, you know, that's a very good questionbecause we're, you know, I think, I
(19:52):
think we're struggling, you know, a lotof these services organizations say the
same thing that they're really strugglingto, to get younger people interested.
And there's many reasons for it,but I think it's incumbent on these
organizations to try to meet youngerpeople where they are and try to
let them know that, Hey, we'reinterested, we want to help you.
(20:12):
But, um.
You know, there's there's also it's upto the younger people to kind of seek out
organizations that can help them grow.
So I think it's a little bit of both.
But, yeah, we're definitely, you know,in today's age of media and always on
entertainment and things like that.
We're finding it more challengingto get younger people interested in
(20:35):
service organizations, but I, I don'tthink it's because younger people
are less interested in service.
I think it's quite the opposite.
Oh yeah.
I think there's just so many ways for, forpeople to get involved and get engaged.
They no longer have to go toRotary or to Elks or to Masons.
So I just, I think it's all changinga little bit, but, but what I'm
really excited about is when I goaround Orlando, for example, and
(21:00):
I see on the weekend, I just see.
young people supporting andserving and helping and, you
know, and that's fantastic.
So whether it's through a formalorganization or through a faith based
organization or through just somefolks getting together wanting to do
good things, I think that's all fine.
(21:20):
So we're going to take a breakand acknowledge our sponsor, Cat5
Studios, and we will be right back.
The Intern Whisperer is brought to you byCat5 Studios, who help you create games
and videos for your training and marketingneeds that are out of this world.
Visit Cat5 Studios for moreinformation to learn how Cat5
Studios can help your business.
Thank you, Cat5 Studios.
Now we're back to thesecond half of our show.
(21:41):
And we're going to talk about the futureof jobs and industries in 2030, 2035.
I know this is going to be likeone of your, probably your favorite
things to talk about, Sarah.
Yeah.
So what do you think now?
This is just an opinion question.
What do you think 2030 will look like?
Because basically we know that'sabout like five years because
2030 doesn't count this year.
(22:03):
Doesn't count.
So we're looking at really a differenceof like about five years there.
Oh, well, first of all, I don'tthink that much is going to change
in five years about how work looks.
I think the pandemic clearlycaused us to rethink the workplace
and what, what work means to us.
(22:24):
As we've seen by so many companiesthat, you know, um, where, where
workers were able to work remotelyand they've chosen that that's how
they want to, to spend their time.
And then we've got now we're at thispoint where, um, we're starting to see the
evidence that in some cases, pure remotework doesn't work for some organizations.
It works for other organizations.
(22:45):
There is no one answer.
Um, first of all, but I think in somebusinesses where you have to do physical
things, like put hardware and softwaretogether to make a product health care.
You can't do that all remotely.
So, I think it's going to be upto individuals to determine their
(23:06):
lifestyle, how they want to.
Pursue their profession, and ifthey do want to work purely virtual,
what organizations support that?
Um, but I, you know, I don'tsee it changing much in 5 years.
I think new technologiesare going to come on board.
That's going to enable more productivity.
I mean, obviously, AI is already.
(23:28):
Impacting some areas of business.
It's gonna it's a super powerfultool that can help both individuals
and organizations be more powerful.
We're going to see more extended realitytechnologies, you know, like the VR.
headsets and maybe augmented realityclasses that bring data to the worker
wherever they are, whether they'reFrontline worker on assembly line,
(23:51):
whether they're a doctor or nurse,or perhaps whether they're a pilot, a
policeman or a soldier, those technologiesare going to be used to improve human
performance at the, at the workplace.
But I don't in five years, I don'tfundamentally seeing things look
much different than they do today.
Gotcha.
(24:12):
Well, what about.
Okay, robots, because wetalk about robots a lot.
And for me, I can see that they're like,when you were mentioning career paths that
are like outside the people that fix, youknow, electrical, you know, streetlights,
anything that's electricity, I couldsee that moving more towards robot.
(24:33):
Oh, I, I, no doubt that robots aregoing to play a role in our society
and doing jobs that are repetitive.
dangerous, um, you know, and don'trequire a great deal of human interaction.
Uh, they're going to be toolsthat we use to, to make our
lives easier, better, and safer.
(24:54):
No doubt about it.
Um, and, and so, you know, I mean,when I was growing up, we used to
watch the Jetsons and there was thisdream of having the maid robot that
would do everything in the house.
Well, look, it's probably not.
To unrealistic in the future.
I mean, I have a Roomba here in myhouse that is constantly cleaning our
(25:15):
floors, which is great because I don'thave to pick up a vacuum when my wife
doesn't have to pick up a vacuum as much.
We still have to use it everyonce in a while, but that's going
to just continue to get better.
Right.
And then in the workplace, I mean,you, you know, one of the things that
really has me excited is robotic drones.
Um, the ability for these flying dronesto go do things like inspect power lines,
(25:36):
inspect power plants, inspect pipes,you know, they're doing stuff that.
Is almost impossible for humans to door very difficult and very expensive.
So, so we're just going to have toget deal with this co habitation
with robots doing some things.
(25:58):
And I, and I know that scaressome people and that's okay.
I mean, there needs to be boundaries,but, um, you know, look, look
where we're at today with the car.
Imagine asking great grandparents,you know, to, if they, if we were
able to take our great grandparentsand bring him into our society of
today, what they would think, right?
And I think it's, it's thesame thing with robots.
(26:19):
You know, there was this thing, um, itwas several years ago where Chernobyl,
they had robots that were going intothat, um, that radiation, it's still,
you know, radioactive and they wouldsend robots in there to go and test
it and see, you know, what can stilllive, you know, inside of there.
(26:40):
Yeah, I know.
I used to work for Carnegie MellonUniversity at the Robotics Institute,
and they're the ones that actuallybuilt those robots that went into
the Chernobyl nuclear reactor site.
And they actually have one ofthose, not one that went, but, you
know, they built multiple models.
They kept one at the Institute toshow people, you know, a living
example of this is a replica ofthe robot that went in there.
(27:03):
I mean, that's fantastic, isn't it?
Right?
The fact that we use usetechnology to go do something
and not put people in harm's way.
I mean, we're starting to see go ahead.
Was there something that happenedto the robot though, too?
Was there some kind of, um,decay that had happened?
Oh, yeah, I mean, you know, look,you're going to put a machine
(27:24):
in an environment like that.
Yeah, you're not going to bringit back out because it's going
to be contaminated, but there'sgoing to be mechanical failures.
I mean, we look at, you know, welook at the spot robots that you
see at all the trade shows, youknow, the ones that look like dogs.
Yeah.
And they walk around.
Yeah.
And look, you put cameras on them.
I remember, I remember during thepandemic, Singapore deployed those, those
(27:45):
spot robots out in the parks during COVID.
And all they did was that the dogswould, the robots would go and
see if people were closer than twometers, six feet, and they would go
up to them and give them a message.
Please separate yourselves.
Right now it was a publicservice, uh, thing, but you
know, how, how valuable is that?
(28:06):
I mean, that showed a real world examplewhere you didn't have to put a human going
out and, and reminding people, uh, youknow, to, hey, you need to separate right
now because we're in a dangerous time.
So what was the outcome of that?
I didn't see that.
So how did people react to it?
Do you know people?
Well, first of all, askyourself this question.
If you have, if we're in a park, andI come up to you and say, Isabella,
(28:30):
you please separate yourselves.
You're going to look at me and you'regoing to be a little bit grumpy, right?
It's like, but now this, this four leggedmachine comes up and just says in a nice
tone, you know, please be reminded youneed to be, you know, six feet apart.
You might receive it alittle bit differently.
And, and what I, what I saw, theoutcome was people were very receptive.
(28:51):
They knew that it was a public safetything that this was being done for
their benefit and they didn't haveto interface with the human and
potentially have a negative engagement.
Mm hmm.
Yeah, I can see robots doinga lot of things that would be
really good work I don't know ifyou've ever seen Black Mirror.
I assume you have yeah, I've seen I'veseen some of the episodes I that they're
(29:15):
like a cautionary tale to me It's likeoh this is what can happen if you don't
do things right in the world of AI androbots and AR, VR No, I, I definitely
think that we need to be cautious.
We need to have rightoversights on technology.
Um, because there are peopleout there that have different
(29:37):
interest in using technology,either promote their own agendas.
Or for harm.
So we do need oversight, but,um, but I think the benefits that
a lot of this technology bringsus just makes our lives better.
I saw in 60 minutes,it was on October 8th.
That was my birthday.
So I can remember it.
But, um, his name is JeffreyHinton and he's the godfather.
(30:01):
They call him the godfather of AI.
He invented it back in the fifties.
It was way, way back.
And he, he had said, you know, we doneed to make sure we're being, um,
I'll call it good guardians and exhibitstewardship around it, because if we
don't, it could go bad really fast,but it's like that with anything.
Right?
(30:21):
I mean, if we don't control bigbusinesses, they can become monopolies.
It's just exactly.
But look, I, I have, it's funnybecause I graduated college in
1989 and I have a minor in AI.
And, um, yeah, yeah.
And I, I mean, we were, we were usinglanguages like Lisp and Prolog to do
(30:44):
best path analysis for different things.
And, you know, when you're a student,you know, you're looking at, oh, my gosh,
the future of the world and how whatI'm learning today is going to help.
That was over 30 years ago, and we'rejust now starting to get into the stuff
that we were thinking about 30 years ago.
Like, can we actually teach machines todo this or can machines learn themselves?
(31:08):
So, um, you know, I would, I wouldencourage students that are, that are
studying these different technologiesto dream to dream about what are
the possible good use cases forthe, for the technology, Thank you.
But also dream about what could go wrongif it not properly controlled and managed.
Yeah.
I love that advice.
(31:29):
I think that's the best advice anybodyshould take from the show so far is the
fact that curiosity, don't be complacent.
Don't just sit there and, you know, goto school and have people spoon feed you.
You need to be questioning constantlyand be curious and, and just wonder,
is this a good thing or a bad thing?
Yeah, and, you know, I, you know, Ioften get asked to talk to students and
(31:51):
give advice and, and things like that.
And here's what, here's whatI, the best advice I think I
give is you own your education.
Your learning journey is yours.
Institutions, teachers,they're there to help you.
But you at the end of the day, youown your journey and and and so take
it, take it like it's a life journey.
(32:12):
Learn everything that youcan things that interest you.
Also, you're going to have tolearn things that you may not
like, and may not interest you.
You may not see why it's relevantthat I have to learn algebra.
Now, believe me.
Um, some of that stuff you may not usein your job, but the fact that, you know,
and understand it will be important.
Um, I'm taking a course right now.
(32:33):
And this is somethingI put out on LinkedIn.
I absolutely believe in lifelong learning.
I think that, you know, being curiousabout things and wanting to learn
is just part of our life's journey.
And I always try to.
Tell my sons that it's like,okay, you finished your undergrad.
Now it's time to start thinking aboutyour next degree or certification, but
(32:53):
you know, always be improving yourself.
And so I have to set the example.
So a few months ago, I signed up for aspace professional certification program.
I remember you posted that.
A lot of work I'm doing right nowis in, you know, the space industry
is, is booming pun intended, butthere's a lot of opportunity in space.
And I really felt.
(33:14):
Ignorant when I'd be around a lotof these space professionals talking
about Leo and Mio and satellitevectors, and I did not understand that.
So I'm like, okay, Ihave to go learn that.
And I, I said, where's the,where's the best place?
The fastest place that I canlearn what I need to know.
And I found the global space universityand I signed up for the space
professional certification program.
(33:36):
It's been phenomenal.
I'm learning a whole lot of stuff.
However, Okay.
In that course, we had to calculatehow to move satellites around
and how much thrust was needed.
And they actually gaveus calculus problems.
And I, and I had to admit, I haven'ttouched this stuff in 35 years.
I had to go do I had to ask for help.
(33:56):
So I had to, I actually called my kids upand said, can you help me understand this?
And they said, dad, here, use thistool on the web, just punch it all in.
Yeah, but.
Point is, um, understanding how themath behind it, what, what are the
decisions that engineers have to make?
I, I didn't have to knowhow to do all the math.
I just had to understand how math wasused to get to a decision about what
(34:21):
angle to launch a rocket at how muchfuel you have to load once it's an orbit.
How do you change the orbit?
So much more conversational, right?
And I think that's what learning is.
And the wonderful thing aboutlearning today is you don't have
to go to a college or universityand sit in a traditional classroom.
(34:42):
You know, you can go learn throughYouTube and Khan Academy and just this.
Unlimited resources outthere to learn things.
You don't have to takea structured course.
Now, if students are watching this,I'm not saying don't go get degrees.
Degrees are absolutely valuable.
You know, certifications andcredentials is how we show society
(35:05):
that we've, we've passed a certain,um, series of examinations.
I mean, like in a company, Um, if weneeded to hire Unity developers, for
example, I can't tell whether Unitydeveloper knows unity or not, but if they
have a Unity professional certification,I know that, okay, I know that that
certification requires that they haveto pass these, um, these, these things.
(35:29):
So that's why thosecertifications are important.
I think still.
Oh, yeah, I agree with you, certificationsare also a faster way to be able
to demonstrate your knowledge.
And, you know, you can definitely buildon top of them without having to, I
don't, you know, I was an educator andstill am, but I don't think school is
(35:50):
for everybody because like a traditionalfour year degree and two years, I
think it's a good thing for sure.
Yeah.
Because you learn a lot about yourself.
Well, and I also think, um, I had thisconversation recently with one of my
sons that, that, um, I'm concernedthat we're getting away from teaching
(36:10):
liberal arts because I think the liberalarts, it helps us understand what it
is to be human, to appreciate musicand art and sociology and philosophy.
Oh, my gosh.
Understanding.
If you can understand philosophy, physics.
Chemistry and psychology, youcan pretty much understand
(36:31):
how the world operates, right?
Yeah, I agree.
But I agree with you, you know, you know,formal, let's call them school college
universities for everyone, you know, butI do, I do think that people, especially
since our society is getting moresophisticated, um, that you need to have a
(36:52):
good baseline of, of a number of differentsubject areas, Um, and, you know, and,
and otherwise what happens is you mightwant to change your, your professional
career at some point, cause what you'redoing is, is not interesting you, and
then it's harder to transfer over.
Very true.
(37:13):
So I know we talked about, youknow, remote and blended work.
Totally.
I get that one.
What about AR and VR?
How, how fast do you think it canactually become affordable for
people to use on a daily basis?
Well, it's affordable now.
So I mean, if you, if you have yourphone and you're using some of these
shopping apps like Walmart or Ikea,where you can look at your furniture
(37:36):
and then hold it up and see it inyour room, or you can do a try on of
sunglasses, that's augmented reality.
It's built, it's builtinto our phones today.
Um, I think a lot of people thinkaugmented virtual reality are immediately
thinking these, these bulky headsets.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well here.
Okay.
So here's, here's what, what I tell folks.
(37:56):
Okay.
This is not about the goggles.
This is not about glasses.
This is about informationand data following us as we
go through our daily life.
Some of it's going to be visual.
Some of it's going to be audio.
Some of it's going tobe kinesthetic, right?
We're going to have wearabletechnology that does things for us.
Our Google Maps when we're drivingor Waze tells us to go left or right.
(38:20):
So.
The the big where we're at todayis we're at the beginning of the
next revolution of the Internet,which is the real time 3D Internet.
A lot of people call Web3.
we're there.
We are there.
It's being built right now.
The next 10 years is going to be.
A big construction period, but, um,the, the headset technology is going
(38:42):
to get lighter, faster, cheaper, um,to the point where they're going to be
sunglass size things, or they're goingto be embedded into construction helmets.
Uh, we're going to have audio guidance.
Um, so that's all coming.
But what's important is that behindit, it's the systems that are
able to, to understand contextualinformation and data and get it to the
(39:06):
users in the way that they need it.
I think you raised such a good pointbecause most people don't think about,
Oh, it is being used in their phone.
I know that last year I went to twoyears ago, actually, I went to the
future of Ed, uh, Edtech conference.
And they said, okay, everybodypull out their phone.
(39:26):
And I knew this was,this was coming though.
And they said, okay, download this.
And they said, use Google.
We're going to search for cats.
And there was cats justswarming all over the floor.
Now, if it was like, you know.
Raptors or something like that, that couldhave been terrifying, but you know, cats
are super, you know, nice and friendly.
And I don't think that most ofus realize that we can actually
(39:49):
access it right through our phone.
You can access it through your phone.
Uh, and then every day new I mean,Ray Bans and Meta just teamed up
and they've come out with a newRay Bans that have some augmented
reality capability built into them.
It's going to be really exciting.
Um, you know, anybody that hasn'tseen Ready Player One, I suggest
go see the movie Ready Player One.
(40:11):
It is really a far fetched.
futuristic, you know, worst case view.
But if you look at what's going on inReady Player One and how data is being
presented, I don't think that's too farfetched for us here in the next decade.
Um, you know, uh, I am, Ihave not seen that movie now
based on your recommendation.
(40:32):
I mean, other people havesaid it, but your, you have a
different influence in my life.
So I'm going to, okay, I'm going togo make sure I go watch that movie.
Yeah.
It's um, you know,matrix is a good one too.
Um, but, but Ready PlayerOne really touched me cause I
went, wow, this, this could.
Actually happen if not controlled.
But once again, it's there.
(40:52):
There are some good things in therethat I know companies that are
already developed that are alreadyputting out there and that are going
to be that are going to help us.
So, yeah, and I think ReadyPlayer One is not a new movie.
It's been around for it'sbeen around for a while.
Yeah.
You're right.
What did you think about here?
We just had last week.
And just so our listeners know when theyactually hear this, we're talking about in
(41:15):
October of 2023, you know, just predictingit's going to be a year later soon.
Um, we had the medicine orworld global, um, event.
Yep.
The medicine of global week.
Yep.
Yeah.
And you guys were a big part of it.
You and Nathan and Nathanhas been a guest on the show.
Nathan Pettyjohn, he's thehead of, um, AR/VR, uh, but you
(41:37):
know, you're second in command.
So you guys are really, um, helpingguide what these conversations can be.
I love everything that you'vebeen bringing up because for the
average person, I don't thinkthat they know what's going on.
So you're going to be able to expandthe conversation, but, but But going to
that event this week, I saw Sony, I sawGoogle, I saw Meta, and they were all
(42:00):
sharing technologies that were trulyamazing that I hadn't seen before.
So you know, is there somethingthat's coming out that you think or
that was at that conference that'sworthy of sharing to the listeners?
Uh, yeah, I mean, I think 1st ofall, we're we're, you know, I've
been interviewing folks and askingthem are do they believe we're at the
(42:21):
tipping point for XR tipping pointbeing Malcolm Gladwell's definition.
That's when somethingspreads like wildfire.
And I think the overall consensuswas that in certain industries,
we're at the tipping point andhealthcare is one of those.
You know, healthcare is an industrythat is ready for disruption.
This technology can help.
Thank you.
(42:41):
Everyone from nurses and cliniciansto physicians to patients.
And so I think we're going to see a lotof XR technology and health care defense.
It's already been there for a while.
It's going to continue to grow.
Um, and then you're going to see, youknow, virtual reality for training in all
industries because it just makes sense.
It's just.
So much more efficient to put on a headsetand do training rather than sitting
(43:05):
there looking at a computer screen.
I mean, that's, that's the basics of it.
But here's what here's what is itgot me really excited for our region?
Um, the whole point of that conferencewas to bring a global association,
the VR/AR association to Orlandopartner up with a Florida based.
Conference, which is called Synapsehere in Orlando to both, you know,
(43:30):
showcase what we've got locally,but also bring global organizations
to see what we have here.
We are really at an interesting pointin Central Florida where it's not, you
know, we're not the new Silicon Valley.
Right, because Silicon Valley, SiliconValley, but we are something special where
we have this large ecosystem of companiesthat are developing applications and
(43:52):
solutions in XR using AI and and we'rea hungry area where we're an area where
people are hungry to want to be recognizedthat, hey, we have something here special.
And I think we accomplish that.
And so I think.
One of the challenges that that, you know,I used to run a business here in Orlando.
One of the challenges that I always facewas that our engineers are developers.
(44:15):
Once they had 2 to 3 years of experience,they felt they had to go to California
to work for, you know, a Microsoftor a unity or something like that.
Well, that was because theydidn't feel that the opportunities
and the companies were here.
Well, we're all working on that.
We're working at bringing thesecompanies into Central Florida.
So, and bringing the jobs hereso that people can start their
(44:38):
academic career here or theirtrade skill and then continue to
live here and be involved in that.
High tech industry.
So it's really an exciting time.
And I think that, you know, hatsoff to David Adelson and the team
at Innovate Orlando and the OrlandoEconomic Partnership for really helping,
helping organize this as a showcase.
(45:00):
And this is just the start, right?
We're really just at the startof this MetaCenter Global Week.
I can't wait till 2024.
I'm sure it's going tobe bigger and better.
And it's just gonna like South bySouthwest, you know, they started off
with like 300 people in Austin, Texas.
And now it's one of the largestarts and music and technology
festivals in the world.
(45:20):
So good.
Good.
It's a good time to be in centralFlorida technology and arts industry.
Yeah, I definitely can see that.
Um, I don't know if you knew, know SueBolle, but she's with the serious play
conference and I've gone to those.
I'm, I'm pretty sure you've been a speakerthere in the, yeah, and that's where I saw
(45:41):
a lot because you mentioned healthcare.
Uh, I go to it sec.
So I see it there, uh, how, you know, allof this is being used in that industry.
And I also listened to a lotof the speakers that are at the
series play conference, alwaysenjoy those because I learned so
much about how it is being used.
And I could not agree more with somuch of a shortage in healthcare
(46:03):
for nurses and just assistance.
I can definitely seethat there would be more.
Robotic use in there, um, somebody hadtold me about how they walked into a, uh,
a clinic, um, to go get a, an X ray done.
And there was no staff.
You just check in on a wall.
(46:24):
You just go right on in.
Um, once you have checked in, therewas somebody that was, you know,
behind the next door that wouldsay, okay, you're going to go in
here and, and greet you that way.
But it was, um.
Okay.
It's a difficult industry toprovide solutions with people
that need help and health care.
So, you know, robotics, Icould see that going there too.
(46:47):
Yeah, no health care health care.
And plus the other thing is good aboutFlorida is we do have such a large.
Elderly population, people movehere, large hospital networks.
So, so we're a good market fordeveloping the technology and then
putting it to use or working togetherwith the healthcare industry to
create the solutions that they need.
(47:08):
I just.
Had the honor of going over to Dr.
Robert Masson's, the Masson'sSpine Institute here in Orlando.
I met him at the conference andhe's using augmented reality
in his surgical suite today.
This is not a, Hey, we're building this.
Come look.
He's like, no, I'm, I'm usingit today to help my team, my
surgical team be more efficient.
(47:30):
And I got to witness that firsthandin the operating suite and I was blown
away there, there, there, because.
What they're doing is reallyabout improving workflow and
augmented reality technologygives them the ability to do that.
So very, very exciting time in healthcarefor us here in, in, in Central Florida.
Very much so.
(47:51):
So what ethical dilemmas do you foresee?
I know you touched on some of them.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, geez.
There's, there's, you know, look,it's, it's like, um, I think at a high
level, it's like, where, where is it?
Where's the right placesto use technology?
And to what extent do you use technology?
You know, I, you know, the humans arestill really important and you can't
(48:14):
solve every human problem with technology.
Um, and I think that'sthe real ethical dilemma.
Now we get into military use.
There's a whole nother areaof, of who makes the decisions
about what things to do.
Um, and that's way above my paygrade, but I definitely think
it's something that, you know, weneed to, we need to be mindful of.
Um, and make sure thatwe got controls in place.
(48:37):
And the other thing really that Ithink the area that I'm concerned
about is more about informationpeople's personal information.
And that's not an XR thing.
Um, but it does, youknow, when you're using.
If you, if you have augmentedreality glasses on and you're walking
around, you're capturing data, you'recapturing images and, you know,
(48:57):
people can learn a lot about whatyou're seeing and what you're doing.
So we just, we just got to makesure we got good checks and
balances in there and not overreact.
Too, too much on one side or the other.
Okay.
So best mentoring advice.
I know that, um, that ethical dilemmaswas like really good mentoring
(49:20):
advice, but do you have something?
I think, I think, you know, I think thebest mentoring advice for, for young
people that are looking at, you know,they're still in school or just start fine
mentors go, don't, don't be shy to ask.
Look, people, people 30, 40 years of, of.
Business or education.
They want to share their knowledge.
They want to share their experience.
(49:42):
And don't be afraid to just go ask andsay, Hey, I would like to talk to you.
Can you answer some questions for me?
Um, okay.
I mean, people, people want to share,but, you know, people aren't gonna, you
know, like, I'm not going to go out andtry to find students that I can help.
But if someone comes and says,Hey, can you give me some advice
(50:03):
on this or help me with this?
Absolutely be glad to, or pointhim in the right direction where
somebody else can help him.
Yeah, I assume that you guysare going to be at the upcoming
ITSEC conference, right?
Oh boy, of course, we can't miss ITSEC.
No, no way.
Um, do you guys also show up at IAAPA?
I know that's a right of way.
IAAPA, yeah, I'll be atIAAPA, I'll be at ITSEC, yes.
(50:25):
Now we may not, you know, we're notgoing to have an association booth,
but there will be a lot of our membersthat will have their booths that
we'll be going in and supporting.
Thank you.
Gotcha.
Well, how can people reach out to you?
We always provide your LinkedIn.
Please reach out to me on LinkedIn.
Um, and that's another advicethat I would have for, for folks
(50:47):
coming into, you know, coming outof college or into the workforces.
LinkedIn is really becoming a very, verypowerful professional networking platform.
And I've, I've been encouragingboth my sons to, to really, you
know, get on LinkedIn, use it, getconnected, develop relationships.
Um, and um, so that's the way I would sayif people wanna reach out to me is, is
(51:09):
reach, reach out to me through LinkedIn.
And what is the website for VR/AR?
It is www.thevrara.com.
www.thevrara.com One word.
thevrara.com.
There we go.
(51:30):
And it's a national organization, right?
Oh, it's global.
It's a global organization.
It's all over the world.
Um, we have 60,000 people on ourdistribution list, about 7,000 members.
Um, we're really the, we're reallytrying to be the, the association
for the XR industry, right?
Where people that want to learn about thetechnology that want to do business go.
(51:53):
And that's what associations do, right?
It's supposed to be a.
Uh, and, and we're tryingto get very focused on XR.
Yeah.
Well, John, I want to thank you somuch for being a guest on the show.
And I just, uh, I'm so thankful that Igot to have this conversation because
it's, it's hard to get FaceTime withyou because you're very popular.
There's always a circleof people around you.
(52:15):
Well, thank you so much.
I appreciate it, Isabella.
And I, and I appreciateeverything that you're doing.
And, uh, you know, anytime you needsomething, please feel free to reach out.
I sure will.
Thank you so much.
You're welcome.
We want to thank our sponsor, Cat5Studios, and thank you to our video
team, Gabe LaPorte, Tommy Myers,Andrew Pigott, and Julissa Hurtado.
(52:36):
Music is by Charles LawrenceLide, and you can visit
Employers4Change at www.e4c.tech.
To learn how you can create realdiversity and inclusive culture while
scaling your people for the future work.
Thank you for supporting the InternWhisperer by subscribing to us on
Podbean, our Employers 4 ChangeYouTube channel, or streaming from
your favorite podcast channel.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.