September 12, 2024 • 50 mins
In this conversation, Christina, Jen, and Erica discuss the topics of perfectionism, identity, and letting go of societal expectations. They share personal experiences and insights on how perfectionism can harm one's well-being and how embracing imperfection can lead to personal growth. They also explore the challenges of transitioning identities, particularly as mothers and professionals, and the importance of finding and embracing one's true self. In this conversation, Jen Anderson and Erica Manville discuss mindset changes and embracing imperfections in midlife. They talk about allowing oneself to make mistakes and inspire others to do the same. They also discuss the importance of identifying what is truly important in life and letting go of things that don't bring joy, income, or orgasms. The conversation explores mindset shifts, such as recasting the inner critic and being open to change. The guests share their personal experiences and offer advice on embracing one's uniqueness and staying relevant in midlife.
Our guests:
Professional Imperfectionist Jen Anderson is the tech genius behind Accomplist, the to-do app for imperfect humans. As a coach, she helps people ditch perfectionism and overwhelm. A native New Yorker, she knits and makes mixed media art in Los Angeles, California.
Connect with Jen
Facebook | Facebook Group | Instagram | Website
Erica Manville, M.Ed. is a dynamic blend of mom, teacher, and artist, channeling her energy into nurturing both her family and her students. She lives in East Longmeadow, Massachusetts, with her partner Bryan, their blended family—daughter Ella Blue, son Keith—and their dogs, Pickle and Barley. Erica is deeply committed to anti-racist education, weaving together English and Visual Arts to empower students to navigate the world with awareness. A natural leader, she has been an active member of the Massachusetts Teachers Association and was the founding chair of the North Adams Public Arts Commission.
Connect with Erica on Instagram here.
Host:
Christina Smith is a life coach specializing in confidence and self-love in midlife so that women can finally truly like themselves and how they show up for themselves and their relationships.
CONNECT with Inviting Shift & Christina on Social:
Instagram | Facebook
FREE GIFT: The Confidence Tool Kit is here to help you walk into the second half like a queen (because you are one already). Get it here.
Email me and tell me what you think: christina@christina-smith.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So excited about this because we're going to talk
about some really interestingtopics like perfectionism and
identity and these things that,at least for me, came up and I
was like, huh, is this who Iwant to be and what is it that I
want to be?
And so I want to introduce ourguests.
We have Jen Anderson.
She's a professionalimperfectionist.
(00:22):
Jen, tell us what that means.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Well, it means I'm not a hot mess, I'm an
inspiration.
I am a coach, a productivitycoach, giving up perfectionism
coach, and I have just launchedan app called Accomplice.
It is a to-do app for imperfecthumans.
And I am also a freelancewriter.
I write for a plus-size fashioncompany for a plus size fashion
(00:48):
company Beautiful.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Thank you, jen and Erica.
Erica I have known for severalyears.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Hi, I'm Erica.
I am a mom.
I'm the mom to a 17 year olddaughter and I have a 16 year
old stepson, and I and, um, I ama teacher.
Um, I've been a teacher for 20,.
This is my 21st year as ateacher.
Um, so teenagers are in my life, um, at home and at school, at
(01:16):
my work.
So that's me.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
You're the teen whisperer, yes, awesome.
Well, thank you women for beinghere, and I love that.
You're a professionalimperfectionist, jen.
Tell me more about that,because we want to talk about
this topic of like perfectionism, because it used to be one of
my identities and I used toreally love that identity and
(01:40):
then I grew not to like it.
So tell us how you got to yourimperfection.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, yeah, it's a long and imperfect journey.
Yeah, I mean I get a lot ofmigraines.
So you know, I fried everythingand a few years ago I was doing
the mind-body-health thing,which did help somewhat.
And a big part of that is thatif you are a perfectionist,
people pleaser and or hadchildhood trauma, then, yeah,
(02:09):
your brain could be causing painjust to distract you.
And perfectionism definitelyties into that.
We always think that if we walkon eggshells, that we can
actually control it.
If we can actually keep fromtriggering an outburst from
somebody, then everything willbe fine.
And no, that's not how thatworks.
(02:29):
It's a sucker's bet.
If someone wants to blow up atyou, they're gonna, and it's
just.
You know there's a differencebetween perfectionism and
excellence is the thing.
Excellence exists and you know,as a writer, you know I'm not
going to just send off my firstdraft without actually reading
it.
You know it's there, especiallyanyone in the creative field.
(02:53):
There is a certain level of,yeah, it's not done yet.
I'm not being a perfectionist,it's not there, but at some
point, yeah, you got to let itgo.
And you know, especially withmy writing, you know what they
tell you is that you're.
Most people can't tell thedifference between your B plus
work and your A plus work.
So you know there's no reasonto kill yourself to get it just
(03:15):
right.
And you know there are timeswhere the my client has been
happiest when I had a migraine.
I was just writing somethingjust to get it done and it just
all the filters off and theyloved it Beautiful.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
What I love about what you just said is I always
talk about perfectionism being amoving target.
That's what it always felt likefor me, because I could get
really perfect on something orwhat I thought was perfect, and
then all of a sudden I'm lookingat it and I'm like, oh, this
could be a little different, andthat could be a little
different, and this could be alittle different.
And so, like perfect.
(03:47):
It's like hard to get toperfect because it's just
constantly moving about, likewhat does that look like?
And I think that we were giventhis, uh, at least in my house,
when I was growing up.
You know you have to give ahundred percent to everything.
I think that's crap.
I think that's crap.
I don't give a hundred percentto my dishes or my scrubbing my
(04:08):
floor.
No, they get done.
That's good enough.
Done is good, right.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
So there is such a thing as good enough.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Okay, yeah, no, go ahead.
Yeah, there is such a thing asgood enough, especially when
it's something we're notpassionate about, right?
I mean especially, yeah.
So, erica, tell us a little bitabout your relationship with
perfectionism.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Is that something that you've run into?
Yeah, I, as a teacher mostlyfor my students did go to art
school and when is art done,done?
There's always the questionthat all artists are wondering
at all times and you really tobe an artist?
You really can't be aperfectionist because then you
would never finish anything.
And so, um, a good resource formy students, because, as I was
(05:03):
an art teacher for 17 years andI am now an English teacher and
special ed teacher and I havehad to get kids through that
journey of understanding what afinished product is, what an
edited product is, what ajourney is and what a process is
(05:28):
, and that the process tocreation is just as important.
I used a lot of metaphors, youknow, like I had a baby and
she's great and she's notperfect, but she is to me.
So when you create something,you're creating these babies
that you know.
They have a life of their ownsometimes and they just have
(05:50):
what it is, whatever it needs tobe, and you can keep going like
.
You don't have to stop.
You do with babies but, likewith projects, you can just keep
going, you know.
And so if you didn't like oneversion of it, you can always
make a series.
You can.
That's why there's so artistseries, because you can't have
anything be finished enough ifyou have that idea still brewing
(06:12):
, so it's good.
It can be a good driver andcreate more.
I love that.
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
I'm just going to say , yeah, the one thing that
really helped me give upperfectionism was making art.
I'm just going to say, yeah,what?
The one thing that reallyhelped me give up perfectionism
was making art.
You know cause it's, it's.
I say the key is to findsomething that you're no good at
and you don't care that you'reno good at it, and it drove me
crazy that I can't.
I don't draw as well as I'dlike, but for some reason,
collages, I didn't care aboutcollages.
So you know, years later, I'mmaking this media art and it's,
(06:41):
it doesn't have to be done.
It's not great.
It doesn't have to go in thefridge.
I mean, it's, it's art therapy,it has to.
It should be bad and you know,if I ever decide to get better
at it, I give my collages awayas gifts.
I'll cut the big ones up to usethem as background for smaller
ones.
It doesn't have to be done.
Which which?
Speaker 1 (07:00):
I love that so much because I, like, in my early 40s
, I decided I wanted to startpainting.
I never painted Erica knows thestory but I had really awful
art teachers.
I did not have an EricaManville as a art teacher by any
means and it took me a reallylong time to just get to the
point where I was like, let metry art again as an adult, and I
(07:22):
bought the canvas and I boughtthe paints and I stared at them
for like a year.
I was just staring at thesecanvas, never cracked the paints
, and finally I had a friendthat came up to me and she was
like Christina, what are youdoing?
Put the damn colors on thecanvas and just move them around
.
Because, like Erica was saying,it's really about the process.
(07:43):
It's not whether or not you'regoing to be able to hang that
thing up or, you know, thinkit's perfect or whatever.
You're never going to getanywhere.
If even practice needs to beperfect, right, like even we're
talking about the Olympicslately, and even the Olympians
like they have to mess up a lotof times before they can say hey
, actually this is the way thatwork and this is, this is how
(08:07):
I'm going to do this.
So I think that it's aboutpractice and allowing ourselves
not to be perfect.
I think starts with likepermission, right Permission not
to be perfect and being okaywith that, claiming the
imperfection title because,let's face it, none of us are
perfect the imperfection titlebecause, let's face it, none of
(08:28):
us are perfect.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Yeah, if thinking that if you start painting, all
the masters, most of themstarted with a mid-grade.
So they started with van dykebrown or they started with a
rich color because having thatwhite blank paper or having that
white blank canvas is souninviting.
But then when you add warmth toit or you just start and taking
away from that middle ground alot easier than starting from
(08:51):
zero that's lovely.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
That's a lovely tip, yeah.
So just getting something onthere right and getting it so
that it feels started, and Ithink that's a really great tip,
yeah.
So perfectionism was a realproblem for me.
It used to make me reallyanxious, and I think most of us
know that perfectionism is a waythat we avoid embarrassment,
(09:15):
ridicule, all those things thatwe're afraid that you know will
happen if we're not reallyperfect at something, instead of
just saying, yeah, I'm humanand I'm practicing, and it also
becomes this identity.
I mean, I know, you know, whenI was in the corporate world,
like I would be like, yeah, I'ma perfectionist, right, and
that's supposed to be a reallygreat thing.
(09:37):
And so we can step into some ofthese identities not really
fully understand the impact thatthey're having on us, because
me saying that I'm aperfectionist, well, now I have
to show up perfect, don't I?
I have to show everybody elsethat that is absolutely who I am
.
And that part is the part that Ithink was making me partially
(10:00):
ill for so many years is becauseI was putting so much stress on
myself.
It wasn't even what bosseswanted from me.
It was what I thought I wassupposed to be, and again, this
might come from childhood trauma.
I know mine did because Iwanted to make sure that people
wanted to stay connected to meand I had a very disconnected
(10:22):
family.
So I thought, you know, withthe perfectionism of course for
me came people pleasing too.
I don't know if anybody herehas that issue, but people
pleasing definitely came alongwith it because I wanted other
people to be happy and I reallythought that if everybody else
was happy around me I would toobe happy.
Anybody else have experiencedthe people pleasing?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
No, no, no.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Very much me.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Absolutely, and you put other people first and
they're never happy.
You know, that's one of thethings that I absolutely love
about being middle-aged.
I've just given up.
I've realized there's no waterin some of those wells, and fine
, you know it.
Just it is and is.
And you know my brother, I havethis quote, that from my
brother, um, who moved all theway across the country in his
(11:10):
early 20s.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
it's sanity is directly proportional to the
distance between you and yourparents house you know that
explains a lot in the last fiveyears of my life and why I've
been so peaceful.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
What do you think about that?
Um, my child left home at 13.
So I mean, I have to assumethat that's part of it.
Um, and she is now going to goto college.
Um, but she's not that far.
Um, I, I live with my um soonto be mother-in and I can
totally understand that.
I mean, mother-in-laws aredifferent.
(11:48):
I think when I think ofpeople-pleasing, I think about
that we don't always addourselves as one of the people
and like it's okay to includeyourself.
I don't know if it's Americanculture or what, but not
including yourself is seen asbetter than including yourself,
(12:09):
like not being too like stuck onyourself or like selfish.
And my mother has instilled inme that I should never think
about myself, and I think thatthat's the problem is that you
should include yourself in whoyou're thinking about and
(12:30):
considering.
And so I think that I rememberexactly when it was.
I'm 48 now, I was 38.
I can remember exactly whathappened when I decided I was no
longer going to not includemyself.
I was going to make sure that Iadded myself in, and you know,
those kinds of decisions taketime and I feel like it's
(12:53):
perfected over a decade and at48, I can really say that I
spend a lot of time helpingmyself and getting over the
shame associated with caring formyself in a way in which I feel
like I'm a good person and Ican say those words to the
(13:13):
mirror, mirror work yay and beokay with it, because I've had
the courage to allow for adecade for me to think and add
myself into the equation whenI'm making decisions.
So, you know, obviously workingwith Christina has really helped
, because working with women andbeing in a women's circle like
(13:35):
allows you that grace to carefor yourself in a way, because
you have women cheering you onto care about yourself in a way
that is really authentic.
And when you have thosefeelings of shame or feeling
like embarrassed that youactually considered yourself in
that moment, usually the supportis, of course, you should, you
(13:57):
know, and so I think havinglike-minded individuals around
you is really important for that.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Beautiful.
Would you mind sharing themoment that you decided that you
needed to be included?
Is that something that you'd bewilling to?
Speaker 3 (14:10):
share.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
If not, you can say no.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Please, I would love to.
I had my baby at 30 and I got adivorce at 32, 33, something
like that.
32, 33, something like that andI'm not good with numbers or
remembering dates, but so mychild was about eight, yeah, and
(14:33):
I was between relationships andI had a boyfriend that worked
in Antarctica for six months outof the year and he had sworn
off Antarctica and he was goingto just be with me and my kid
and we were going to get married.
And then he was gone for sixmonths and four months and he
(14:55):
broke up with me on FaceTimethere's no other way because
you're like iced in inAntarctica and so I had been
really working on myself duringthat four months and had really
been trying to create space formyself and I had read some
Gabrielle Bernstein books aboutlike caring for yourself, and
(15:15):
I'm forgetting the word thatputting the ing in your life was
the subtitle.
Anyway, I was doing a lot oflike, working out and and really
trying to help myself.
And when he broke up with me, Iwas in this like space of like,
really trying to connect to himspiritually.
And so when he broke up with meand he broke up with my child,
(15:38):
who was like devastated, longdistance it.
It's like that energy shiftedthat I was spending trying to
connect with him long distanceand I started to.
I said you know what I deservethat all of that energy I'm
trying to connect to anotherhuman being.
As a single mom, I should bespending that energy for me and
(16:01):
and for being that mom and beingthe kind of person that I would
want my you know theneight-year-old to grow up to
really like understand thatbeing a strong woman is
important and caring for otherpeople are important, but you
should be able to care foryourself that's so lovely.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
I remember when it happened for me, which was I was
in therapy, and it was like thefirst time somebody had asked
me, christina, what do you want?
And I was like, well, I want tobe a good wife, I want to be a
good mom and I want to be a goodfriend, and the therapist was
like, no, that's not what I mean.
I mean who you want to, what doyou want for yourself?
(16:42):
And I didn't have an answer.
I mean, and I've been on, likeyou know, a 15 year trek finding
that answer and findingdifferent answers for that, and
it's something that I stillthink about is like, wow, am I
trying to be something forsomeone else, or am I actually
showing up as me someone else,or am I actually showing up as
(17:06):
me?
And that's really because I canwear so many masks.
Um, and so I went to many, manydifferent schools and I was a
different person in every schoolthat I went to, because I was
in high school or middle schooland you know, you want to fit in
and you want to be accepted.
So the first group that wouldaccept me in was like my group.
So I went from like metalheadsto the preppies to the athletes.
(17:27):
I mean it was crazy.
And so if I went to like afootball game where there was
multiple schools, nobodyrecognized me because I showed
up differently for each one ofthose groups and that had a huge
part of my people pleasing.
And you know, at the time thatwas the only tool I had in my
pocket to be able to survive allthat you know transition that I
(17:49):
was going through.
But really, when my therapistasked me and then she was like
that's what you want to be forother people, where you want to
be for yourself, and I thoughtthat that was so amazing.
Jen, do you have a story aboutbreaking up with people, please?
Do you know?
when you decided that it was nolonger for you.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Gosh, I don't know.
I mean, it's for therapists, isthe charm, I think it's there.
There was a workbook calledHealing the Inner Child or
something like that, and mytherapist at the time gave me
assignments Okay, do thischapter, do this.
And you know it wastransformative, it helped so
(18:30):
much.
You know when.
You know, because when you'rein it in certain experiences
you're just trying to treadwater.
You know, when I was in my earlythirties, you know when I was
in my early 30s, I called up mymother and looking for sympathy,
full that I was, for a guy whohad broken my heart.
And she then went on in on thislong onslaught about all the
(18:54):
times that she had her heartbroken before she got married.
And we're talking like 40 yearsearlier.
You know, in retrospect you'relike're like, okay, that was
just gotcha, that was justabsolutely ridiculous reaction.
And but at the time I was justlike I, yeah, at the time I was
like, but what, what do I do?
And taking myself a little bitimmediately afterwards, but
(19:16):
years later I'm like there wasno water in that well, went to
the wrong person.
I mean, you know, look back, I,you know it's weird, it's you
get to a certain age and it'sjust like I just ran out, I just
couldn't care anymore.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah so we've been talking about people pleasing
and perfectionism and how thesecan be two identities that we
have a hard time letting go with.
Um, and my struggle withidentity is that sometimes when
we call ourselves something,then we box ourselves in, and
one of the biggest identitiesfor many of us and Erica, I know
(19:53):
that you can speak to thisbecause you're having kids
growing up and getting out, justlike I have that mom becomes
identity for a lot of peoplethat, if we have kids, we
suddenly, like that becomes ourwhole identity.
For some people it wasn't for me, but for some people that could
become their whole identity.
(20:14):
And then they have a hard timeletting go of their kids.
And they, what I find, is thewomen that come to me in midlife
.
They're letting go of theirkids and they're like who am I
now that I'm not a full-time mom?
Who am I now and this can alsohappen in retirement, right,
like if I've been a lawyer mywhole life.
(20:34):
Now that I'm retired, I'm not alawyer anymore.
Really Like, so how do I let goof those identities?
And what I loved about what youwere saying, jen, is that I
believe that midlife is a timewhere we start questioning
ourselves more Like is lawyer ormom the only things I want to
be?
Can't I have a whole?
(20:56):
I mean because at 50, we stillhave decades to live.
I mean, god willing, we stillhave decades to live.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
I mean God willing.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
we still have decades to live, and so how do we shift
identity?
I'm curious to hear both ofyour answers about that what is
it that you've been doing tomaybe let go of identities or at
least shift them or transitionthem?
Speaker 3 (21:19):
I think for me it's to be really thoughtful.
When we started this and weintroduced ourselves and you
wanted us to tell a little bitabout ourselves, I resisted the
urge to say I'm a teacher,because I don't a teacher and
not be a teacher at your job.
And I feel like I am naturallya teacher.
(21:39):
But I've been trying to havethose different parts of myself
as important as part of myidentity.
So when people say, well, whatdo you do?
I don't, I try not to alwayssay teacher or I work as a
(22:00):
teacher, because I know that'swhat they're really asking, but
to talk about other parts ofmyself more often, because
voicing it is really part ofinternalizing it.
And so I guess one thing I talkabout is being an artist.
When I have to do a bio, youknow, for anything, I like to
(22:22):
not include my job first becauseit isn't really my priority.
It's a means to an end, but andit is something I enjoy,
luckily I have a job I enjoy,but most of the time.
But to say I'm a hiker, I'm anartist, I'm an empath, I'm a
caring person, I like to add inthat those details because you
(22:45):
know, teachers can be all kinds,you know like there can be all
types, as you were talking about.
You're never having a good artteacher, like.
So I want people to know whatkind of person I am.
That I'm.
You know, I spent a lot of mylife in school not talking, was
selectively mute.
So instead of saying well, Iwas mute, I say I was a really
(23:07):
good listener, you know like,and I was.
So.
My superpowers are that I amempathic, I am caring, I am
loving, and that's really whatinforms my teaching.
It's not that I'm some sort ofexpert trying to like fill the
minds of children, becausesometimes, honestly, if I'm
(23:28):
teaching art or teaching English, I don't even get to it,
because the most important thingis what they're going to
remember is how I treated themas people.
So I guess the way I getthrough that part is I really
just add agency and credence tothe different parts of of me and
feed them and talk about them.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
I love that so much because what I'm hearing is that
you talk about your gifts andyour strengths, rather than a
title Like I'm a creative, I ama caring person.
I am, you know, I do havechildren, that's okay, but I'm
not just mom and I'm not just ateacher, because even moms can
(24:09):
show up very differently, can'tthey?
So explaining the type ofperson you are.
I love that so much becausethat goes down to, like my core
values, strengths and gifts, andthose things don't change right
.
Like those are things that wecan.
We can hang on to for a verylong time where identities tend
(24:30):
to shift.
Thanks for sharing that.
How about you, jen?
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Oh, it's, it's, yeah, my identity it's.
It is amorphous.
I think I do actually need towork a little bit on figuring
that out.
I mean, yes, I'm animperfectionist, I'm a hot mess,
I'm a lot, you know, and I havea lot of different jobs and a
lot of different things.
But I live in Los Angelesrecently this is the past few
years and when I first startedgoing to, you know, groups with
(24:57):
meetup, there was a group thatwas people over 50 or over 40,
whatever it was.
It was my people and they werenot my people, you know it was.
I just wasn't feeling it.
And I went to a gathering ofthe Burbank Ladies Science
Fiction and Fantasy Book Cluband those are my people, those
are absolutely my people, and itjust clicked, it's just, you
(25:20):
know people who want to consumemedia, who want to talk about it
, who just love different formsof art that are not necessarily
museum art, and so, you know,it's hard to say, during the
pandemic, I got a little intouch with mortality and
thinking about that and I readwhen Breath Becomes Air by Paul
Calentini, who was aneuroscientist and a writer, and
(25:42):
he talks about finding yourlife's purpose and I realized,
yeah, okay, my purpose is tohelp other people stop beating
themselves up, because I didthat for a very long time and I
want other people to join me.
You know, it's fantastic.
I want to send ripples out intothe world.
So you know, let them inspireother people, because every time
you're okay with your ownmistakes and imperfections,
(26:05):
you're giving other peoplepermission to do the same.
And you know, like when I writeabout clothing, it's all about
what styles are good.
Give you the room to move andbreathe.
It's not every style is foreverybody and the problem is
with the style, not the body,and for a lot of us, that is
(26:26):
just mind blowing, yeah, and howwe identify with that.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
So wonderful.
So what are the major mindsetchanges that we need in order to
either drop identity or, like Ilike to believe that in midlife
we start giving less thoughtsabout things and we can just let
go of a lot of stuff.
Right, that isn't reallyimportant.
(26:49):
And even, as you said about thepandemic and thinking about
mortality, same thing, right.
I'm getting to this age whereI'm like I just don't care.
I don't want to have to careabout certain things that aren't
that important to me, whereas,you know, when I was younger, I
could get caught up in any drama.
But now my mindset is like, isthis important?
(27:13):
I believe somebody said does itgive you income, orgasms or joy
?
And if it doesn't, then wedon't need it, we can get rid of
it, and I don't know that wecan do that with everything
right we still have to do somethings.
And at the same time, there is abig shift that happens in my
mindset about what is importantand what isn't important in life
(27:37):
.
And I'm curious about y'all howhave your mindsets changed over
time about y'all?
How have your mindsets changedover time?
Or?
Speaker 2 (27:49):
what are some mindset shifts that you might have had
in midlife?
Well, one thing that I did wasI, I recast my inner critic and
you know I'd walk into mykitchen and it's a mess and I'd
hear my mother and my aunt in myhead and you know criticizing,
and I changed it to, you know,the voice of someone who doesn't
like me and I don't like them,and that's fine, and it became
so much easier to just mentallygo, get out of my kitchen, just
(28:11):
go away, oh, and tell thisperson off, because, yeah, my
mom and aunt, I, you know, Irespect their opinion.
I think I'm garbage and Irespect my opinion.
I know me better than anyoneelse and it's the 1980s.
Mom would have criticized the2022.
Mom came for a visit and stoodin my kitchen and was like, yeah
(28:31):
, it's fine.
You know they would not be rudeenough to say that.
So it's people who don't evenexist anymore in our heads.
So, to make it someone else, itdid help to be able to not
absorb that criticism best loveway.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Thanks, jen.
Why are you erica?
What kind of mindset changeshave you had?
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I think, that, having a controlling mother, creative
brain, a listening brain, atfirst it was just easier to
allow someone who really has alot of loud and strong feelings
about how things go to justfollow that.
But I did have that independentstreak and left home and went
farther away than any of mysiblings.
(29:15):
I have two younger brothers andthey've stayed pretty close to
where I grew up in New Jerseyand I was seen as like the
radical because I went toupstate New York for college, to
Alfred University, and went toart school.
It wasn't practical, you know,and sort of like forged my own
way.
I think I did it by accident.
I didn't realize that I wasgoing to a school that was based
(29:39):
on the Bauhaus movement.
I had no idea what that was.
So they probably told me and Ihad no idea.
And basically what it is is aGerman movement in which you
become free because you knoweverything.
So it's really interesting.
So if you can make a lamp,throw a vase, make a painting,
(30:00):
do a drawing, you can do anykind of artwork at all and you
have the skills to do it, youcan do anything.
So and I also had a.
You know I'm Gen X, so Ialready had that going for me
where we're of the generation,where, if you don't know how to
do it, you figure it out.
You know, I learned how to typeon a typewriter.
(30:22):
Then I learned how to like inmiddle school.
Learned how to do it you figureit out, you know.
I learned how to type on atypewriter.
Then I learned how to like inmiddle school.
Learned how to, you know,program a computer.
Then, when the internet started, I learned HTML.
You know by hand.
So it was just one of thosethings where I'm just used to
things changing, I'm used tothere being a new thing, I'm
used to those types of things,and so I feel like I just
(30:42):
embraced that part of myselfwhere I was like you know what.
I don't know what I'm doing, butI'm sure I'm going to figure it
out, even this weekend.
I went to Chicago, toLollapalooza, last weekend with
my child and her best friend andthey're in a band together and
they're called Catskill.
They don't have anything outyet, but look for it.
They're really great kids, andso I know I'm 48.
(31:09):
I'm going to a music festival.
It's hot, I walked eight milesone of the days, eight miles,
and it's good food, actually atLollapalooza.
So go there if you want somegood food.
But it's just thousands andthousands and thousands of
people.
It's overstimulating for anintrovert like me.
But what I was thinking in myhead was first off, I went.
(31:31):
My intention was for me to bondwith my child, with my kid, and
I knew that she was glowing,this was her time, and so it
didn't make it about me, andthat helped me to not
internalize the struggle ofbeing hot, being tired, being
(31:51):
old, not being able to sit.
You know, like stuff like that,my feet hurt.
But you know, like I was trying, I was trying to make sure two
other people didn't getdehydrated, stuff like that and
instead of focusing on just that, I was like you know what?
I don't understand the music ofthese kids, like why don't I
try?
You know the deaf ones werethere, which you know, I know
(32:13):
them.
I opened up to the possibilitiesthat I could enjoy what they
were enjoying and that I couldtry to see what it was like for
them what they were enjoying,and that I could try to see what
it was like for them.
And I think that that it was akey to my happiness in that
moment, because I wasn'tlistening to the like.
You know, every, every adult Iasked to go with me, by the way,
was like you're insane, fuckthat.
(32:35):
Like I'm not, like I've doneenough of that.
And I went to one of.
You know I've been to theLollapalooza's in the 90s, you
know.
So I knew what I was gettingmyself into.
Instead of thinking that way, Ijust thought how can I?
Luckily I'm physically capable,you know enough, and I could
make it about the journey of theprocess of that instead of you
(32:55):
know all the other voices.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
I love this.
How can I love this question,right, like, how can I engage
with what's going on right now,even though all of this other
stuff is going on?
And I know that Jen talkedabout the inner critic earlier
and I know we all hate to wordvictim right, we're in our
victim because you could haveeasily gone into your victim,
(33:20):
right, and I like to switch thataround and say you could have
gone into your wounded childright With.
I like to switch that aroundand say you could have gone into
your wounded child, right, thatpart of you that's really
uncomfortable in the moment anddoesn't really want to be where
you are and want somethingdifferent.
That's my wounded child.
She shows up a lot lately andshe's like I don't want to be
doing this, I don't want this, Idon't want things to be this
(33:40):
way.
So I can easily give in to thatway to child if I want to, or I
can recognize it and step intoa different part of me, like you
did, and be like hold on.
What is my purpose?
What is the goal here?
Right, it's about my kidgetting what she wants out of
this event and it's me beingable to be joyful for her that
(34:01):
she's getting what she needs outof this event, and I think that
that's really great.
The other thing that I wanted totouch on is and we've done this
in coaching is I know you're anearly adopter, so your mindset
shift.
You are really great atshifting your mind right.
I think that you can shift fromone thing to another, you can
(34:22):
open yourself up to things thatmight make me a bit
uncomfortable, even as a coach,and you're really good at just
jumping in things.
Now I am of the 80s too, or theGen X generation as well, and
so I know that I can go out anddo things.
Doing things and me switchingmy brain is like two different
(34:42):
things for me, whereas for you Iam more like your fiance.
I know we've had thisconversation where you want
other people to try it first.
We want to know that it works.
We want you to convince us thatwe have to change, because I'm
not really into change unlessthere's a reason.
I need to change and you do itfor fun.
Need to change, and you do itfor fun.
(35:07):
Like you need to like shake upyour life on purpose, because
that's what keeps you like, youknow, going, as you love to
shake up, and so I guess I'msaying this so that people out
there understand that there aredifferent aspects.
Some people are really great atmindset shifts.
Um, I'm a coach.
I still am a late adopter and Istill have to know that there's
(35:27):
a reason why I'm shiftingbefore I do it, because just I
don't want to do the work.
I don't like change, I wantthings to stay the same, even
though I know that's never goingto be the truth, and I know
that I would get bored if theydid stay the same at some point
just not as quickly as you are.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
I um, I feel like my years and years of being
tentative, um, and not speaking,my mom made, made sure I was
like afraid of the water, likedon't go in there, you don't
know what's in the water.
You know like afraid of likemostly everything.
Oh, don't try that, we don'tknow if it's okay.
Um, and I think that the yearsof that and not talking gave me
(36:06):
enough of that time.
You know, like I had like 17years before cause I was 17 when
I was in college of of nottalking, not trying things, so
like I had that that time to notdo things.
So now I feel like I'm wakingup for lost time.
And when I was a teenagersomewhat I remember this day, I
(36:28):
have a weird memory.
I remember almost everythingabout this day where I was
eating a pickle and I was like Idon't know if I like pickles.
And this person looked at meand she goes well, why don't you
just decide to like it?
Then and I was like like brainlike exploded, like I mean,
don't I try to like, just say Ilike it.
(36:49):
You know and it's amazing howmuch words are spelled.
So I say this all the time ifyou constantly wake up and say I
hate this, this sucks, like Ihate waking up like it's the
morning, this sucks, this sucks,this sucks, it will continue to
suck.
Um, but if you keep, if you tryto say you know what, I'm
waking up this morning, it's notso bad, like I'm not expecting
you to change completely, maybedecide in that moment, just one
(37:13):
tiny moment, that it's not asbad as it seems, or maybe you do
actually just like pickles andI think that that an art school
kind of I mean, it was like bootcamp, my art school, so it was
like you know, you're gonnalearn how to make a lamp right
now.
I've never made a lamp before.
Well, you better do it, becauseyou're expected to have a lamp
(37:34):
in three weeks, you know.
So like stuff like that, Ithink helped me I almost said
broke me one or the other.
It's it's more like changing.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Sometimes we need a little break before we can make
a mindset change, at least forus late adopters, that's for
certain.
That's for certain, jen.
What are the mindset changesthat you've had?
Speaker 2 (38:05):
And like how?
How are you a late adopter oran earlier adopter?
I'm definitely a late adopter,you know know, I absolutely hate
affirmations because they work.
Why, oh my god, it's just sodorky.
It's just because thegeneration x thing it's oh, it's
so uncool but it works.
It is just so annoying that Iput off trying them for so long
(38:25):
and they're so effective.
So definitely a late adopter.
But one thing that has helpedme is the Generation X.
No one's paying attention.
Because no one's payingattention.
I sold a personal essay abouthow I love that.
My marriage is boring.
I just love it.
Because I grew up in chaos andmy brother read it and he was
(38:47):
like, okay, no, it's good, mom'snot going to like it.
My mother's never read it.
It has been years and, yes, Iwent from.
My parents do not understandwhat I do for a living.
They don't pay attention to me.
They don't pay attention to me.
This is crazy.
Pay attention to me.
(39:13):
This is funny and and thathelps this mindset of there's no
permanent record, there's,there's no judge looking out
after me.
Condemn me, it's okay, I'm free, I can do whatever yeah, that
is a mindset shift, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (39:24):
I love that so much because I think that it really
is, whatever we put on it.
I know when I was in mycorporate job, when people
started asking me, how's itgoing?
How's it going?
I'm like it's fine.
It'll be fine, it'll be fine,right.
And that was me, it'll be fine.
That was me Like it'll be fine.
(39:48):
They knew that I was wayoverwhelmed and that I didn't
know if it was going to be fine.
I'm telling you it's fine.
It means I don't know that it'sgoing to be fine, but I can do
that.
And what I loved about youraffirmations is I also resisted
affirmations for a very longtime, even though I used to.
It's fine.
That was more of a shut up.
And let me figure this outAffirmations for me, they have
to have at least an ounce oftruth, and so if there's people
(40:08):
out there that are listening tothis, I'm sure that there's
other Gen Xers that are likeaffirmations.
I hate that stuff because Icould sit there and tell myself
every day that I am beautifuland perfect the way that I am.
I am beautiful and perfect theway that I am.
But if I don't believe that atall, that's hard for me to step
into.
(40:28):
So for me it's like make it alittle bit true.
I'm open to seeing how I'mawesome and fabulous.
I'm open to seeing how I'mbeautiful and perfect.
You know that way at least,still looking for it right, I'm
still have my brain and what isbeautiful and perfect about me,
and it feels somewhat truebecause I can say that I am open
(40:50):
to seeing that.
Of course, we're all open toseeing our own awesomeness,
aren't we?
But for me first to say that Iam awesome is like it just
didn't feel right and it felticky.
So instead my brain was like no, you're not, look at this, look
at that.
Do you remember that time?
You remember this conversation?
You're not awesome.
(41:10):
Do you remember all this?
And so my brain would fight itso, um.
So this little tip for those ofyou out there that might be
thinking about this um, justmake it an ounce of truth in
there that, even if you don'tbelieve it, now that you're open
to believing it, I'm open toseeing my awesomeness.
Of course I am, um, and then atleast we can keep our eyes
(41:32):
focused on what it is that wewant.
And Erica knows I always talkabout intention, and tensions
are feelings, and I'm sure thatthere's other episodes in which
y'all can go and find my wholeprocess on this, go and find my
whole process on this.
But it's really about wherewe're keeping our eyes, because
(41:55):
we can go between survival andthriving, and survival is I'm
focused on all the things that Idon't want in my life, meaning
the sharks in the water, or thatI don't like this part of my
relationship or this part of myjob, and if that's all I'm
focusing on, that becomes mymindset in my world.
Right, it's like the bluecolored glasses instead of the
rosy colored glasses, but if I'mfocused on.
Hey, I really want to feel openand bold today.
(42:18):
Then I can find ways to be openand bold, right, so, and we can
hold both of those.
So, just a reminder to us thatour words do really matter.
I mean the way that we talk toourselves.
Um, even jen, you recognizingyour aunt and your mom's voice
in your kitchen, likerecognizing that hold on, that's
(42:39):
not very kind.
My inner child is not going tolike that.
Um, what, what would actuallyserve me in this moment?
Um, and I think that that'sreally important.
All right, so we are going toclose out by having each of you
maybe give us one piece ofadvice on midlife for um, around
the topics that we talked abouttoday.
(42:59):
Does it have to be related?
I know I'm putting you all onthe spot.
I didn't tell you about this,so I want you to.
If you want people to reach outto you, feel free to share how
they can connect with you andshare that one piece of advice.
Who wants to go first?
Speaker 2 (43:16):
I guess my advice is be the weirdo.
Do you want to be the nicelittle lady or do you want to be
that wacky old lady who wearsoutrageous clothes, who everyone
is paying attention to and itmakes everyone's day that you
know?
Just to see this person being100% themselves?
(43:36):
And yeah, be the weirdo.
They can find me and all mystuff at accomplishedapp.
It's the word accomplished, butwith a T instead of an H, and
autocorrect is the bane of myexistence on the Facebooks and
the other places.
It's team accomplished.
And yeah, the app is availablefor the phones, the iPhones, and
(43:57):
for the Googles the Android.
Okay, well, it's a to-do appwhere you can mark things
skipped because we try to do toomuch and at the end of the day
you feel like garbage.
So some things you skip.
And for repeating tasks, somethings that if they show up
every day, they're not going toshow up as overdue the next day,
even if you don't touch it,because there's today's version
(44:20):
of it, so today's meditationit's not like I have to make up
for not meditating yesterday.
So there's that and there's adelegated status, because we
always forget that there arepeople we can ask for help and
the delegated stuff goes off ofour list and onto a delegated
list so we can go look and andif you have to follow up, you'll
(44:40):
look at that list.
It's not my thing that I haveto do now.
So it's yeah, it's designed tohelp you reprogram your brain
and shift your mindset and justget used to being imperfect
being inspired to be imperfectand being good with that.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Yeah, I love that so much because some of those apps
they want you to like, oh, thisis all overdue.
That's why I don't use any ofthose to-do lists, because it
gets too chaotic, and I lovethat.
It's like physical form of likeallowing yourself to just let
go of things and start todayfresh, beautiful I'll be your
(45:18):
first new user because it soundsgreat.
Speaker 3 (45:21):
I did just well.
A couple years ago I did 75hard, which is for 75 days.
You do a list of things and ifyou skip any of the things, you
have to start over and do itagain.
It's like the opposite of yourapp and I did it first time.
By the way, anyone who knowswhat 75 hard is, I did it first
time all the way through.
(45:42):
I did not have to start overbecause I'm awesome, but I do
the thing all the way through.
Did not have to start over um,because I'm awesome.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Um, but uh is what it is, I do the thing.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
I.
If something needs done, I doit like I just do it.
So my piece of advice is, umthat you're relevant, that
getting older does not eraseyour relevancy, that you are
important and that you can stillhave dreams and you can still
have long-term goals and you canstill have short-term goals and
(46:12):
you can still change your goalsand you can change your whole
life and you can change whatyou're doing.
And it's scary, but it's likesomething that if you feel like
you need to do and your lifefeels dull or meaningless, that
doesn't mean that you can't justchange it.
Like I used to think.
You know, like everyone thinkswhen you're young, that you will
(46:34):
someday find figure it all out,right, and then you realize
that that's not happening, likelike, maybe someday when I'm 30,
I'll like know what's going onand like, no, I do not know.
Someday, when I'm 30, I'll likeknow what's going on and like,
no, I do not know.
Um, and you never know.
And there's um a lot of comfortin not knowing and there's um,
pima Chodron said, says it likethis she says there is no ground
(46:58):
that we're searching to begrounded, and really that's an
illusion, isn't?
There is no time where you aregoing to feel completely stuck
around it.
Yeah, I figured it out.
So, in the spirit of that, justknow that you're not going to
figure it out, it's going to beokay and that you'll have it
(47:20):
done.
Just enough, right, to go backto the perfectionist part, that
sometimes it's just done and youmove on and and that's good.
Um, yeah, and you can find meat miss man, miss manville on
instagram.
It's miss m-i-s-s underscoremanville.
My last name m-a-n-v-i-l-l-e.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Like a village of man links below too, so that people
can easily click on them.
Um, thank you both for beinghere.
I appreciate you both so muchand all of the insight and
wisdom that you've been sharing,and thank you, audience, for
tuning in.
We'll talk to you next week.
So excited about this because we're going to talk
about some really interestingtopics like perfectionism and
identity and these things that,at least for me, came up and I
was like, huh, is this who Iwant to be and what is it that I
want to be?
And so I want to introduce ourguests.
We have Jen Anderson.
She's a professionalimperfectionist.
(00:22):
Jen, tell us what that means.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Well, it means I'm not a hot mess, I'm an
inspiration.
I am a coach, a productivitycoach, giving up perfectionism
coach, and I have just launchedan app called Accomplice.
It is a to-do app for imperfecthumans.
And I am also a freelancewriter.
I write for a plus-size fashioncompany for a plus size fashion
(00:48):
company Beautiful.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Thank you, jen and Erica.
Erica I have known for severalyears.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Hi, I'm Erica.
I am a mom.
I'm the mom to a 17 year olddaughter and I have a 16 year
old stepson, and I and, um, I ama teacher.
Um, I've been a teacher for 20,.
This is my 21st year as ateacher.
Um, so teenagers are in my life, um, at home and at school, at
(01:16):
my work.
So that's me.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
You're the teen whisperer, yes, awesome.
Well, thank you women for beinghere, and I love that.
You're a professionalimperfectionist, jen.
Tell me more about that,because we want to talk about
this topic of like perfectionism, because it used to be one of
my identities and I used toreally love that identity and
(01:40):
then I grew not to like it.
So tell us how you got to yourimperfection.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, yeah, it's a long and imperfect journey.
Yeah, I mean I get a lot ofmigraines.
So you know, I fried everythingand a few years ago I was doing
the mind-body-health thing,which did help somewhat.
And a big part of that is thatif you are a perfectionist,
people pleaser and or hadchildhood trauma, then, yeah,
(02:09):
your brain could be causing painjust to distract you.
And perfectionism definitelyties into that.
We always think that if we walkon eggshells, that we can
actually control it.
If we can actually keep fromtriggering an outburst from
somebody, then everything willbe fine.
And no, that's not how thatworks.
(02:29):
It's a sucker's bet.
If someone wants to blow up atyou, they're gonna, and it's
just.
You know there's a differencebetween perfectionism and
excellence is the thing.
Excellence exists and you know,as a writer, you know I'm not
going to just send off my firstdraft without actually reading
it.
You know it's there, especiallyanyone in the creative field.
(02:53):
There is a certain level of,yeah, it's not done yet.
I'm not being a perfectionist,it's not there, but at some
point, yeah, you got to let itgo.
And you know, especially withmy writing, you know what they
tell you is that you're.
Most people can't tell thedifference between your B plus
work and your A plus work.
So you know there's no reasonto kill yourself to get it just
(03:15):
right.
And you know there are timeswhere the my client has been
happiest when I had a migraine.
I was just writing somethingjust to get it done and it just
all the filters off and theyloved it Beautiful.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
What I love about what you just said is I always
talk about perfectionism being amoving target.
That's what it always felt likefor me, because I could get
really perfect on something orwhat I thought was perfect, and
then all of a sudden I'm lookingat it and I'm like, oh, this
could be a little different, andthat could be a little
different, and this could be alittle different.
And so, like perfect.
(03:47):
It's like hard to get toperfect because it's just
constantly moving about, likewhat does that look like?
And I think that we were giventhis, uh, at least in my house,
when I was growing up.
You know you have to give ahundred percent to everything.
I think that's crap.
I think that's crap.
I don't give a hundred percentto my dishes or my scrubbing my
(04:08):
floor.
No, they get done.
That's good enough.
Done is good, right.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
So there is such a thing as good enough.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Okay, yeah, no, go ahead.
Yeah, there is such a thing asgood enough, especially when
it's something we're notpassionate about, right?
I mean especially, yeah.
So, erica, tell us a little bitabout your relationship with
perfectionism.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Is that something that you've run into?
Yeah, I, as a teacher mostlyfor my students did go to art
school and when is art done,done?
There's always the questionthat all artists are wondering
at all times and you really tobe an artist?
You really can't be aperfectionist because then you
would never finish anything.
And so, um, a good resource formy students, because, as I was
(05:03):
an art teacher for 17 years andI am now an English teacher and
special ed teacher and I havehad to get kids through that
journey of understanding what afinished product is, what an
edited product is, what ajourney is and what a process is
(05:28):
, and that the process tocreation is just as important.
I used a lot of metaphors, youknow, like I had a baby and
she's great and she's notperfect, but she is to me.
So when you create something,you're creating these babies
that you know.
They have a life of their ownsometimes and they just have
(05:50):
what it is, whatever it needs tobe, and you can keep going like
.
You don't have to stop.
You do with babies but, likewith projects, you can just keep
going, you know.
And so if you didn't like oneversion of it, you can always
make a series.
You can.
That's why there's so artistseries, because you can't have
anything be finished enough ifyou have that idea still brewing
(06:12):
, so it's good.
It can be a good driver andcreate more.
I love that.
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
I'm just going to say , yeah, the one thing that
really helped me give upperfectionism was making art.
I'm just going to say, yeah,what?
The one thing that reallyhelped me give up perfectionism
was making art.
You know cause it's, it's.
I say the key is to findsomething that you're no good at
and you don't care that you'reno good at it, and it drove me
crazy that I can't.
I don't draw as well as I'dlike, but for some reason,
collages, I didn't care aboutcollages.
So you know, years later, I'mmaking this media art and it's,
(06:41):
it doesn't have to be done.
It's not great.
It doesn't have to go in thefridge.
I mean, it's, it's art therapy,it has to.
It should be bad and you know,if I ever decide to get better
at it, I give my collages awayas gifts.
I'll cut the big ones up to usethem as background for smaller
ones.
It doesn't have to be done.
Which which?
Speaker 1 (07:00):
I love that so much because I, like, in my early 40s
, I decided I wanted to startpainting.
I never painted Erica knows thestory but I had really awful
art teachers.
I did not have an EricaManville as a art teacher by any
means and it took me a reallylong time to just get to the
point where I was like, let metry art again as an adult, and I
(07:22):
bought the canvas and I boughtthe paints and I stared at them
for like a year.
I was just staring at thesecanvas, never cracked the paints
, and finally I had a friendthat came up to me and she was
like Christina, what are youdoing?
Put the damn colors on thecanvas and just move them around
.
Because, like Erica was saying,it's really about the process.
(07:43):
It's not whether or not you'regoing to be able to hang that
thing up or, you know, thinkit's perfect or whatever.
You're never going to getanywhere.
If even practice needs to beperfect, right, like even we're
talking about the Olympicslately, and even the Olympians
like they have to mess up a lotof times before they can say hey
, actually this is the way thatwork and this is, this is how
(08:07):
I'm going to do this.
So I think that it's aboutpractice and allowing ourselves
not to be perfect.
I think starts with likepermission, right Permission not
to be perfect and being okaywith that, claiming the
imperfection title because,let's face it, none of us are
perfect the imperfection titlebecause, let's face it, none of
(08:28):
us are perfect.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Yeah, if thinking that if you start painting, all
the masters, most of themstarted with a mid-grade.
So they started with van dykebrown or they started with a
rich color because having thatwhite blank paper or having that
white blank canvas is souninviting.
But then when you add warmth toit or you just start and taking
away from that middle ground alot easier than starting from
(08:51):
zero that's lovely.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
That's a lovely tip, yeah.
So just getting something onthere right and getting it so
that it feels started, and Ithink that's a really great tip,
yeah.
So perfectionism was a realproblem for me.
It used to make me reallyanxious, and I think most of us
know that perfectionism is a waythat we avoid embarrassment,
(09:15):
ridicule, all those things thatwe're afraid that you know will
happen if we're not reallyperfect at something, instead of
just saying, yeah, I'm humanand I'm practicing, and it also
becomes this identity.
I mean, I know, you know, whenI was in the corporate world,
like I would be like, yeah, I'ma perfectionist, right, and
that's supposed to be a reallygreat thing.
(09:37):
And so we can step into some ofthese identities not really
fully understand the impact thatthey're having on us, because
me saying that I'm aperfectionist, well, now I have
to show up perfect, don't I?
I have to show everybody elsethat that is absolutely who I am
.
And that part is the part that Ithink was making me partially
(10:00):
ill for so many years is becauseI was putting so much stress on
myself.
It wasn't even what bosseswanted from me.
It was what I thought I wassupposed to be, and again, this
might come from childhood trauma.
I know mine did because Iwanted to make sure that people
wanted to stay connected to meand I had a very disconnected
(10:22):
family.
So I thought, you know, withthe perfectionism of course for
me came people pleasing too.
I don't know if anybody herehas that issue, but people
pleasing definitely came alongwith it because I wanted other
people to be happy and I reallythought that if everybody else
was happy around me I would toobe happy.
Anybody else have experiencedthe people pleasing?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
No, no, no.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Very much me.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Absolutely, and you put other people first and
they're never happy.
You know, that's one of thethings that I absolutely love
about being middle-aged.
I've just given up.
I've realized there's no waterin some of those wells, and fine
, you know it.
Just it is and is.
And you know my brother, I havethis quote, that from my
brother, um, who moved all theway across the country in his
(11:10):
early 20s.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
it's sanity is directly proportional to the
distance between you and yourparents house you know that
explains a lot in the last fiveyears of my life and why I've
been so peaceful.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
What do you think about that?
Um, my child left home at 13.
So I mean, I have to assumethat that's part of it.
Um, and she is now going to goto college.
Um, but she's not that far.
Um, I, I live with my um soonto be mother-in and I can
totally understand that.
I mean, mother-in-laws aredifferent.
(11:48):
I think when I think ofpeople-pleasing, I think about
that we don't always addourselves as one of the people
and like it's okay to includeyourself.
I don't know if it's Americanculture or what, but not
including yourself is seen asbetter than including yourself,
(12:09):
like not being too like stuck onyourself or like selfish.
And my mother has instilled inme that I should never think
about myself, and I think thatthat's the problem is that you
should include yourself in whoyou're thinking about and
(12:30):
considering.
And so I think that I rememberexactly when it was.
I'm 48 now, I was 38.
I can remember exactly whathappened when I decided I was no
longer going to not includemyself.
I was going to make sure that Iadded myself in, and you know,
those kinds of decisions taketime and I feel like it's
(12:53):
perfected over a decade and at48, I can really say that I
spend a lot of time helpingmyself and getting over the
shame associated with caring formyself in a way in which I feel
like I'm a good person and Ican say those words to the
(13:13):
mirror, mirror work yay and beokay with it, because I've had
the courage to allow for adecade for me to think and add
myself into the equation whenI'm making decisions.
So, you know, obviously workingwith Christina has really helped
, because working with women andbeing in a women's circle like
(13:35):
allows you that grace to carefor yourself in a way, because
you have women cheering you onto care about yourself in a way
that is really authentic.
And when you have thosefeelings of shame or feeling
like embarrassed that youactually considered yourself in
that moment, usually the supportis, of course, you should, you
(13:57):
know, and so I think havinglike-minded individuals around
you is really important for that.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Beautiful.
Would you mind sharing themoment that you decided that you
needed to be included?
Is that something that you'd bewilling to?
Speaker 3 (14:10):
share.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
If not, you can say no.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Please, I would love to.
I had my baby at 30 and I got adivorce at 32, 33, something
like that.
32, 33, something like that andI'm not good with numbers or
remembering dates, but so mychild was about eight, yeah, and
(14:33):
I was between relationships andI had a boyfriend that worked
in Antarctica for six months outof the year and he had sworn
off Antarctica and he was goingto just be with me and my kid
and we were going to get married.
And then he was gone for sixmonths and four months and he
(14:55):
broke up with me on FaceTimethere's no other way because
you're like iced in inAntarctica and so I had been
really working on myself duringthat four months and had really
been trying to create space formyself and I had read some
Gabrielle Bernstein books aboutlike caring for yourself, and
(15:15):
I'm forgetting the word thatputting the ing in your life was
the subtitle.
Anyway, I was doing a lot oflike, working out and and really
trying to help myself.
And when he broke up with me, Iwas in this like space of like,
really trying to connect to himspiritually.
And so when he broke up with meand he broke up with my child,
(15:38):
who was like devastated, longdistance it.
It's like that energy shiftedthat I was spending trying to
connect with him long distanceand I started to.
I said you know what I deservethat all of that energy I'm
trying to connect to anotherhuman being.
As a single mom, I should bespending that energy for me and
(16:01):
and for being that mom and beingthe kind of person that I would
want my you know theneight-year-old to grow up to
really like understand thatbeing a strong woman is
important and caring for otherpeople are important, but you
should be able to care foryourself that's so lovely.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
I remember when it happened for me, which was I was
in therapy, and it was like thefirst time somebody had asked
me, christina, what do you want?
And I was like, well, I want tobe a good wife, I want to be a
good mom and I want to be a goodfriend, and the therapist was
like, no, that's not what I mean.
I mean who you want to, what doyou want for yourself?
(16:42):
And I didn't have an answer.
I mean, and I've been on, likeyou know, a 15 year trek finding
that answer and findingdifferent answers for that, and
it's something that I stillthink about is like, wow, am I
trying to be something forsomeone else, or am I actually
showing up as me someone else,or am I actually showing up as
(17:06):
me?
And that's really because I canwear so many masks.
Um, and so I went to many, manydifferent schools and I was a
different person in every schoolthat I went to, because I was
in high school or middle schooland you know, you want to fit in
and you want to be accepted.
So the first group that wouldaccept me in was like my group.
So I went from like metalheadsto the preppies to the athletes.
(17:27):
I mean it was crazy.
And so if I went to like afootball game where there was
multiple schools, nobodyrecognized me because I showed
up differently for each one ofthose groups and that had a huge
part of my people pleasing.
And you know, at the time thatwas the only tool I had in my
pocket to be able to survive allthat you know transition that I
(17:49):
was going through.
But really, when my therapistasked me and then she was like
that's what you want to be forother people, where you want to
be for yourself, and I thoughtthat that was so amazing.
Jen, do you have a story aboutbreaking up with people, please?
Do you know?
when you decided that it was nolonger for you.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Gosh, I don't know.
I mean, it's for therapists, isthe charm, I think it's there.
There was a workbook calledHealing the Inner Child or
something like that, and mytherapist at the time gave me
assignments Okay, do thischapter, do this.
And you know it wastransformative, it helped so
(18:30):
much.
You know when.
You know, because when you'rein it in certain experiences
you're just trying to treadwater.
You know, when I was in my earlythirties, you know when I was
in my early 30s, I called up mymother and looking for sympathy,
full that I was, for a guy whohad broken my heart.
And she then went on in on thislong onslaught about all the
(18:54):
times that she had her heartbroken before she got married.
And we're talking like 40 yearsearlier.
You know, in retrospect you'relike're like, okay, that was
just gotcha, that was justabsolutely ridiculous reaction.
And but at the time I was justlike I, yeah, at the time I was
like, but what, what do I do?
And taking myself a little bitimmediately afterwards, but
(19:16):
years later I'm like there wasno water in that well, went to
the wrong person.
I mean, you know, look back, I,you know it's weird, it's you
get to a certain age and it'sjust like I just ran out, I just
couldn't care anymore.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah so we've been talking about people pleasing
and perfectionism and how thesecan be two identities that we
have a hard time letting go with.
Um, and my struggle withidentity is that sometimes when
we call ourselves something,then we box ourselves in, and
one of the biggest identitiesfor many of us and Erica, I know
(19:53):
that you can speak to thisbecause you're having kids
growing up and getting out, justlike I have that mom becomes
identity for a lot of peoplethat, if we have kids, we
suddenly, like that becomes ourwhole identity.
For some people it wasn't for me, but for some people that could
become their whole identity.
(20:14):
And then they have a hard timeletting go of their kids.
And they, what I find, is thewomen that come to me in midlife
.
They're letting go of theirkids and they're like who am I
now that I'm not a full-time mom?
Who am I now and this can alsohappen in retirement, right,
like if I've been a lawyer mywhole life.
(20:34):
Now that I'm retired, I'm not alawyer anymore.
Really Like, so how do I let goof those identities?
And what I loved about what youwere saying, jen, is that I
believe that midlife is a timewhere we start questioning
ourselves more Like is lawyer ormom the only things I want to
be?
Can't I have a whole?
(20:56):
I mean because at 50, we stillhave decades to live.
I mean, god willing, we stillhave decades to live.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
I mean God willing.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
we still have decades to live, and so how do we shift
identity?
I'm curious to hear both ofyour answers about that what is
it that you've been doing tomaybe let go of identities or at
least shift them or transitionthem?
Speaker 3 (21:19):
I think for me it's to be really thoughtful.
When we started this and weintroduced ourselves and you
wanted us to tell a little bitabout ourselves, I resisted the
urge to say I'm a teacher,because I don't a teacher and
not be a teacher at your job.
And I feel like I am naturallya teacher.
(21:39):
But I've been trying to havethose different parts of myself
as important as part of myidentity.
So when people say, well, whatdo you do?
I don't, I try not to alwayssay teacher or I work as a
(22:00):
teacher, because I know that'swhat they're really asking, but
to talk about other parts ofmyself more often, because
voicing it is really part ofinternalizing it.
And so I guess one thing I talkabout is being an artist.
When I have to do a bio, youknow, for anything, I like to
(22:22):
not include my job first becauseit isn't really my priority.
It's a means to an end, but andit is something I enjoy,
luckily I have a job I enjoy,but most of the time.
But to say I'm a hiker, I'm anartist, I'm an empath, I'm a
caring person, I like to add inthat those details because you
(22:45):
know, teachers can be all kinds,you know like there can be all
types, as you were talking about.
You're never having a good artteacher, like.
So I want people to know whatkind of person I am.
That I'm.
You know, I spent a lot of mylife in school not talking, was
selectively mute.
So instead of saying well, Iwas mute, I say I was a really
(23:07):
good listener, you know like,and I was.
So.
My superpowers are that I amempathic, I am caring, I am
loving, and that's really whatinforms my teaching.
It's not that I'm some sort ofexpert trying to like fill the
minds of children, becausesometimes, honestly, if I'm
(23:28):
teaching art or teaching English, I don't even get to it,
because the most important thingis what they're going to
remember is how I treated themas people.
So I guess the way I getthrough that part is I really
just add agency and credence tothe different parts of of me and
feed them and talk about them.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
I love that so much because what I'm hearing is that
you talk about your gifts andyour strengths, rather than a
title Like I'm a creative, I ama caring person.
I am, you know, I do havechildren, that's okay, but I'm
not just mom and I'm not just ateacher, because even moms can
(24:09):
show up very differently, can'tthey?
So explaining the type ofperson you are.
I love that so much becausethat goes down to, like my core
values, strengths and gifts, andthose things don't change right
.
Like those are things that wecan.
We can hang on to for a verylong time where identities tend
(24:30):
to shift.
Thanks for sharing that.
How about you, jen?
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Oh, it's, it's, yeah, my identity it's.
It is amorphous.
I think I do actually need towork a little bit on figuring
that out.
I mean, yes, I'm animperfectionist, I'm a hot mess,
I'm a lot, you know, and I havea lot of different jobs and a
lot of different things.
But I live in Los Angelesrecently this is the past few
years and when I first startedgoing to, you know, groups with
(24:57):
meetup, there was a group thatwas people over 50 or over 40,
whatever it was.
It was my people and they werenot my people, you know it was.
I just wasn't feeling it.
And I went to a gathering ofthe Burbank Ladies Science
Fiction and Fantasy Book Cluband those are my people, those
are absolutely my people, and itjust clicked, it's just, you
(25:20):
know people who want to consumemedia, who want to talk about it
, who just love different formsof art that are not necessarily
museum art, and so, you know,it's hard to say, during the
pandemic, I got a little intouch with mortality and
thinking about that and I readwhen Breath Becomes Air by Paul
Calentini, who was aneuroscientist and a writer, and
(25:42):
he talks about finding yourlife's purpose and I realized,
yeah, okay, my purpose is tohelp other people stop beating
themselves up, because I didthat for a very long time and I
want other people to join me.
You know, it's fantastic.
I want to send ripples out intothe world.
So you know, let them inspireother people, because every time
you're okay with your ownmistakes and imperfections,
(26:05):
you're giving other peoplepermission to do the same.
And you know, like when I writeabout clothing, it's all about
what styles are good.
Give you the room to move andbreathe.
It's not every style is foreverybody and the problem is
with the style, not the body,and for a lot of us, that is
(26:26):
just mind blowing, yeah, and howwe identify with that.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
So wonderful.
So what are the major mindsetchanges that we need in order to
either drop identity or, like Ilike to believe that in midlife
we start giving less thoughtsabout things and we can just let
go of a lot of stuff.
Right, that isn't reallyimportant.
(26:49):
And even, as you said about thepandemic and thinking about
mortality, same thing, right.
I'm getting to this age whereI'm like I just don't care.
I don't want to have to careabout certain things that aren't
that important to me, whereas,you know, when I was younger, I
could get caught up in any drama.
But now my mindset is like, isthis important?
(27:13):
I believe somebody said does itgive you income, orgasms or joy
?
And if it doesn't, then wedon't need it, we can get rid of
it, and I don't know that wecan do that with everything
right we still have to do somethings.
And at the same time, there is abig shift that happens in my
mindset about what is importantand what isn't important in life
(27:37):
.
And I'm curious about y'all howhave your mindsets changed over
time about y'all?
How have your mindsets changedover time?
Or?
Speaker 2 (27:49):
what are some mindset shifts that you might have had
in midlife?
Well, one thing that I did wasI, I recast my inner critic and
you know I'd walk into mykitchen and it's a mess and I'd
hear my mother and my aunt in myhead and you know criticizing,
and I changed it to, you know,the voice of someone who doesn't
like me and I don't like them,and that's fine, and it became
so much easier to just mentallygo, get out of my kitchen, just
(28:11):
go away, oh, and tell thisperson off, because, yeah, my
mom and aunt, I, you know, Irespect their opinion.
I think I'm garbage and Irespect my opinion.
I know me better than anyoneelse and it's the 1980s.
Mom would have criticized the2022.
Mom came for a visit and stoodin my kitchen and was like, yeah
(28:31):
, it's fine.
You know they would not be rudeenough to say that.
So it's people who don't evenexist anymore in our heads.
So, to make it someone else, itdid help to be able to not
absorb that criticism best loveway.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Thanks, jen.
Why are you erica?
What kind of mindset changeshave you had?
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I think, that, having a controlling mother, creative
brain, a listening brain, atfirst it was just easier to
allow someone who really has alot of loud and strong feelings
about how things go to justfollow that.
But I did have that independentstreak and left home and went
farther away than any of mysiblings.
(29:15):
I have two younger brothers andthey've stayed pretty close to
where I grew up in New Jerseyand I was seen as like the
radical because I went toupstate New York for college, to
Alfred University, and went toart school.
It wasn't practical, you know,and sort of like forged my own
way.
I think I did it by accident.
I didn't realize that I wasgoing to a school that was based
(29:39):
on the Bauhaus movement.
I had no idea what that was.
So they probably told me and Ihad no idea.
And basically what it is is aGerman movement in which you
become free because you knoweverything.
So it's really interesting.
So if you can make a lamp,throw a vase, make a painting,
(30:00):
do a drawing, you can do anykind of artwork at all and you
have the skills to do it, youcan do anything.
So and I also had a.
You know I'm Gen X, so Ialready had that going for me
where we're of the generation,where, if you don't know how to
do it, you figure it out.
You know, I learned how to typeon a typewriter.
(30:22):
Then I learned how to like inmiddle school.
Learned how to do it you figureit out, you know.
I learned how to type on atypewriter.
Then I learned how to like inmiddle school.
Learned how to, you know,program a computer.
Then, when the internet started, I learned HTML.
You know by hand.
So it was just one of thosethings where I'm just used to
things changing, I'm used tothere being a new thing, I'm
used to those types of things,and so I feel like I just
(30:42):
embraced that part of myselfwhere I was like you know what.
I don't know what I'm doing, butI'm sure I'm going to figure it
out, even this weekend.
I went to Chicago, toLollapalooza, last weekend with
my child and her best friend andthey're in a band together and
they're called Catskill.
They don't have anything outyet, but look for it.
They're really great kids, andso I know I'm 48.
(31:09):
I'm going to a music festival.
It's hot, I walked eight milesone of the days, eight miles,
and it's good food, actually atLollapalooza.
So go there if you want somegood food.
But it's just thousands andthousands and thousands of
people.
It's overstimulating for anintrovert like me.
But what I was thinking in myhead was first off, I went.
(31:31):
My intention was for me to bondwith my child, with my kid, and
I knew that she was glowing,this was her time, and so it
didn't make it about me, andthat helped me to not
internalize the struggle ofbeing hot, being tired, being
(31:51):
old, not being able to sit.
You know, like stuff like that,my feet hurt.
But you know, like I was trying, I was trying to make sure two
other people didn't getdehydrated, stuff like that and
instead of focusing on just that, I was like you know what?
I don't understand the music ofthese kids, like why don't I
try?
You know the deaf ones werethere, which you know, I know
(32:13):
them.
I opened up to the possibilitiesthat I could enjoy what they
were enjoying and that I couldtry to see what it was like for
them what they were enjoying,and that I could try to see what
it was like for them.
And I think that that it was akey to my happiness in that
moment, because I wasn'tlistening to the like.
You know, every, every adult Iasked to go with me, by the way,
was like you're insane, fuckthat.
(32:35):
Like I'm not, like I've doneenough of that.
And I went to one of.
You know I've been to theLollapalooza's in the 90s, you
know.
So I knew what I was gettingmyself into.
Instead of thinking that way, Ijust thought how can I?
Luckily I'm physically capable,you know enough, and I could
make it about the journey of theprocess of that instead of you
(32:55):
know all the other voices.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
I love this.
How can I love this question,right, like, how can I engage
with what's going on right now,even though all of this other
stuff is going on?
And I know that Jen talkedabout the inner critic earlier
and I know we all hate to wordvictim right, we're in our
victim because you could haveeasily gone into your victim,
(33:20):
right, and I like to switch thataround and say you could have
gone into your wounded childright With.
I like to switch that aroundand say you could have gone into
your wounded child, right, thatpart of you that's really
uncomfortable in the moment anddoesn't really want to be where
you are and want somethingdifferent.
That's my wounded child.
She shows up a lot lately andshe's like I don't want to be
doing this, I don't want this, Idon't want things to be this
(33:40):
way.
So I can easily give in to thatway to child if I want to, or I
can recognize it and step intoa different part of me, like you
did, and be like hold on.
What is my purpose?
What is the goal here?
Right, it's about my kidgetting what she wants out of
this event and it's me beingable to be joyful for her that
(34:01):
she's getting what she needs outof this event, and I think that
that's really great.
The other thing that I wanted totouch on is and we've done this
in coaching is I know you're anearly adopter, so your mindset
shift.
You are really great atshifting your mind right.
I think that you can shift fromone thing to another, you can
(34:22):
open yourself up to things thatmight make me a bit
uncomfortable, even as a coach,and you're really good at just
jumping in things.
Now I am of the 80s too, or theGen X generation as well, and
so I know that I can go out anddo things.
Doing things and me switchingmy brain is like two different
(34:42):
things for me, whereas for you Iam more like your fiance.
I know we've had thisconversation where you want
other people to try it first.
We want to know that it works.
We want you to convince us thatwe have to change, because I'm
not really into change unlessthere's a reason.
I need to change and you do itfor fun.
Need to change, and you do itfor fun.
(35:07):
Like you need to like shake upyour life on purpose, because
that's what keeps you like, youknow, going, as you love to
shake up, and so I guess I'msaying this so that people out
there understand that there aredifferent aspects.
Some people are really great atmindset shifts.
Um, I'm a coach.
I still am a late adopter and Istill have to know that there's
(35:27):
a reason why I'm shiftingbefore I do it, because just I
don't want to do the work.
I don't like change, I wantthings to stay the same, even
though I know that's never goingto be the truth, and I know
that I would get bored if theydid stay the same at some point
just not as quickly as you are.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
I um, I feel like my years and years of being
tentative, um, and not speaking,my mom made, made sure I was
like afraid of the water, likedon't go in there, you don't
know what's in the water.
You know like afraid of likemostly everything.
Oh, don't try that, we don'tknow if it's okay.
Um, and I think that the yearsof that and not talking gave me
(36:06):
enough of that time.
You know, like I had like 17years before cause I was 17 when
I was in college of of nottalking, not trying things, so
like I had that that time to notdo things.
So now I feel like I'm wakingup for lost time.
And when I was a teenagersomewhat I remember this day, I
(36:28):
have a weird memory.
I remember almost everythingabout this day where I was
eating a pickle and I was like Idon't know if I like pickles.
And this person looked at meand she goes well, why don't you
just decide to like it?
Then and I was like like brainlike exploded, like I mean,
don't I try to like, just say Ilike it.
(36:49):
You know and it's amazing howmuch words are spelled.
So I say this all the time ifyou constantly wake up and say I
hate this, this sucks, like Ihate waking up like it's the
morning, this sucks, this sucks,this sucks, it will continue to
suck.
Um, but if you keep, if you tryto say you know what, I'm
waking up this morning, it's notso bad, like I'm not expecting
you to change completely, maybedecide in that moment, just one
(37:13):
tiny moment, that it's not asbad as it seems, or maybe you do
actually just like pickles andI think that that an art school
kind of I mean, it was like bootcamp, my art school, so it was
like you know, you're gonnalearn how to make a lamp right
now.
I've never made a lamp before.
Well, you better do it, becauseyou're expected to have a lamp
(37:34):
in three weeks, you know.
So like stuff like that, Ithink helped me I almost said
broke me one or the other.
It's it's more like changing.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Sometimes we need a little break before we can make
a mindset change, at least forus late adopters, that's for
certain.
That's for certain, jen.
What are the mindset changesthat you've had?
Speaker 2 (38:05):
And like how?
How are you a late adopter oran earlier adopter?
I'm definitely a late adopter,you know know, I absolutely hate
affirmations because they work.
Why, oh my god, it's just sodorky.
It's just because thegeneration x thing it's oh, it's
so uncool but it works.
It is just so annoying that Iput off trying them for so long
(38:25):
and they're so effective.
So definitely a late adopter.
But one thing that has helpedme is the Generation X.
No one's paying attention.
Because no one's payingattention.
I sold a personal essay abouthow I love that.
My marriage is boring.
I just love it.
Because I grew up in chaos andmy brother read it and he was
(38:47):
like, okay, no, it's good, mom'snot going to like it.
My mother's never read it.
It has been years and, yes, Iwent from.
My parents do not understandwhat I do for a living.
They don't pay attention to me.
They don't pay attention to me.
This is crazy.
Pay attention to me.
(39:13):
This is funny and and thathelps this mindset of there's no
permanent record, there's,there's no judge looking out
after me.
Condemn me, it's okay, I'm free, I can do whatever yeah, that
is a mindset shift, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (39:24):
I love that so much because I think that it really
is, whatever we put on it.
I know when I was in mycorporate job, when people
started asking me, how's itgoing?
How's it going?
I'm like it's fine.
It'll be fine, it'll be fine,right.
And that was me, it'll be fine.
That was me Like it'll be fine.
(39:48):
They knew that I was wayoverwhelmed and that I didn't
know if it was going to be fine.
I'm telling you it's fine.
It means I don't know that it'sgoing to be fine, but I can do
that.
And what I loved about youraffirmations is I also resisted
affirmations for a very longtime, even though I used to.
It's fine.
That was more of a shut up.
And let me figure this outAffirmations for me, they have
to have at least an ounce oftruth, and so if there's people
(40:08):
out there that are listening tothis, I'm sure that there's
other Gen Xers that are likeaffirmations.
I hate that stuff because Icould sit there and tell myself
every day that I am beautifuland perfect the way that I am.
I am beautiful and perfect theway that I am.
But if I don't believe that atall, that's hard for me to step
into.
(40:28):
So for me it's like make it alittle bit true.
I'm open to seeing how I'mawesome and fabulous.
I'm open to seeing how I'mbeautiful and perfect.
You know that way at least,still looking for it right, I'm
still have my brain and what isbeautiful and perfect about me,
and it feels somewhat truebecause I can say that I am open
(40:50):
to seeing that.
Of course, we're all open toseeing our own awesomeness,
aren't we?
But for me first to say that Iam awesome is like it just
didn't feel right and it felticky.
So instead my brain was like no, you're not, look at this, look
at that.
Do you remember that time?
You remember this conversation?
You're not awesome.
(41:10):
Do you remember all this?
And so my brain would fight itso, um.
So this little tip for those ofyou out there that might be
thinking about this um, justmake it an ounce of truth in
there that, even if you don'tbelieve it, now that you're open
to believing it, I'm open toseeing my awesomeness.
Of course I am, um, and then atleast we can keep our eyes
(41:32):
focused on what it is that wewant.
And Erica knows I always talkabout intention, and tensions
are feelings, and I'm sure thatthere's other episodes in which
y'all can go and find my wholeprocess on this, go and find my
whole process on this.
But it's really about wherewe're keeping our eyes, because
(41:55):
we can go between survival andthriving, and survival is I'm
focused on all the things that Idon't want in my life, meaning
the sharks in the water, or thatI don't like this part of my
relationship or this part of myjob, and if that's all I'm
focusing on, that becomes mymindset in my world.
Right, it's like the bluecolored glasses instead of the
rosy colored glasses, but if I'mfocused on.
Hey, I really want to feel openand bold today.
(42:18):
Then I can find ways to be openand bold, right, so, and we can
hold both of those.
So, just a reminder to us thatour words do really matter.
I mean the way that we talk toourselves.
Um, even jen, you recognizingyour aunt and your mom's voice
in your kitchen, likerecognizing that hold on, that's
(42:39):
not very kind.
My inner child is not going tolike that.
Um, what, what would actuallyserve me in this moment?
Um, and I think that that'sreally important.
All right, so we are going toclose out by having each of you
maybe give us one piece ofadvice on midlife for um, around
the topics that we talked abouttoday.
(42:59):
Does it have to be related?
I know I'm putting you all onthe spot.
I didn't tell you about this,so I want you to.
If you want people to reach outto you, feel free to share how
they can connect with you andshare that one piece of advice.
Who wants to go first?
Speaker 2 (43:16):
I guess my advice is be the weirdo.
Do you want to be the nicelittle lady or do you want to be
that wacky old lady who wearsoutrageous clothes, who everyone
is paying attention to and itmakes everyone's day that you
know?
Just to see this person being100% themselves?
(43:36):
And yeah, be the weirdo.
They can find me and all mystuff at accomplishedapp.
It's the word accomplished, butwith a T instead of an H, and
autocorrect is the bane of myexistence on the Facebooks and
the other places.
It's team accomplished.
And yeah, the app is availablefor the phones, the iPhones, and
(43:57):
for the Googles the Android.
Okay, well, it's a to-do appwhere you can mark things
skipped because we try to do toomuch and at the end of the day
you feel like garbage.
So some things you skip.
And for repeating tasks, somethings that if they show up
every day, they're not going toshow up as overdue the next day,
even if you don't touch it,because there's today's version
(44:20):
of it, so today's meditationit's not like I have to make up
for not meditating yesterday.
So there's that and there's adelegated status, because we
always forget that there arepeople we can ask for help and
the delegated stuff goes off ofour list and onto a delegated
list so we can go look and andif you have to follow up, you'll
(44:40):
look at that list.
It's not my thing that I haveto do now.
So it's yeah, it's designed tohelp you reprogram your brain
and shift your mindset and justget used to being imperfect
being inspired to be imperfectand being good with that.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Yeah, I love that so much because some of those apps
they want you to like, oh, thisis all overdue.
That's why I don't use any ofthose to-do lists, because it
gets too chaotic, and I lovethat.
It's like physical form of likeallowing yourself to just let
go of things and start todayfresh, beautiful I'll be your
(45:18):
first new user because it soundsgreat.
Speaker 3 (45:21):
I did just well.
A couple years ago I did 75hard, which is for 75 days.
You do a list of things and ifyou skip any of the things, you
have to start over and do itagain.
It's like the opposite of yourapp and I did it first time.
By the way, anyone who knowswhat 75 hard is, I did it first
time all the way through.
(45:42):
I did not have to start overbecause I'm awesome, but I do
the thing all the way through.
Did not have to start over um,because I'm awesome.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Um, but uh is what it is, I do the thing.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
I.
If something needs done, I doit like I just do it.
So my piece of advice is, umthat you're relevant, that
getting older does not eraseyour relevancy, that you are
important and that you can stillhave dreams and you can still
have long-term goals and you canstill have short-term goals and
(46:12):
you can still change your goalsand you can change your whole
life and you can change whatyou're doing.
And it's scary, but it's likesomething that if you feel like
you need to do and your lifefeels dull or meaningless, that
doesn't mean that you can't justchange it.
Like I used to think.
You know, like everyone thinkswhen you're young, that you will
(46:34):
someday find figure it all out,right, and then you realize
that that's not happening, likelike, maybe someday when I'm 30,
I'll like know what's going onand like, no, I do not know.
Someday, when I'm 30, I'll likeknow what's going on and like,
no, I do not know.
Um, and you never know.
And there's um a lot of comfortin not knowing and there's um,
pima Chodron said, says it likethis she says there is no ground
(46:58):
that we're searching to begrounded, and really that's an
illusion, isn't?
There is no time where you aregoing to feel completely stuck
around it.
Yeah, I figured it out.
So, in the spirit of that, justknow that you're not going to
figure it out, it's going to beokay and that you'll have it
(47:20):
done.
Just enough, right, to go backto the perfectionist part, that
sometimes it's just done and youmove on and and that's good.
Um, yeah, and you can find meat miss man, miss manville on
instagram.
It's miss m-i-s-s underscoremanville.
My last name m-a-n-v-i-l-l-e.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Like a village of man links below too, so that people
can easily click on them.
Um, thank you both for beinghere.
I appreciate you both so muchand all of the insight and
wisdom that you've been sharing,and thank you, audience, for
tuning in.
We'll talk to you next week.
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