October 3, 2024 • 58 mins
Are relationships meant to be effortlessly smooth? Join us as we challenge this common misconception with our special guests, Amy Stone and Hannah Blackburn. Amy, a transformational life coach for step-parents and blended families, shares her journey of blending optimism and naivete in forming a new family. Hannah, a transformational somatic coach, brings her expertise on helping individuals regulate their nervous systems and overcome internal barriers to achieve their goals. Together, we explore the significant impact one person can have on altering relational patterns, even when facing resistance.
OUR GUESTS:
Amy Stone is the founder and creator of Stepparent Success School and Imperfect Adulting. Amy understands that being a grown up can sometimes be tougher than expected. It can be a little scary to ask for support when it comes to questions about our families. In her own experience “adulting” she sometimes struggled to find the education, support and community she was looking for from traditional experts. Eventually she came to a realization that became a pillar of her businesses…sometimes the people who give the best advice are not professionals like doctors and lawyers but rather those who have shared in a similar experience who are willing to mentor other adults by sharing.
Amy began by creating specialized resources for stepparents. A lot of people fall into the category of identifying as stepparents but unfortunately there is shockingly little support for stepparents. Today she also offers a group subscription connection community called Imperfect Adulting.
Website here.
Hannah Blackburn is a Transformational Somatic Coach, specializing in embodiment and nervous system regulation. She helps ambitious people find their true purpose in life by shifting fears and doubt, so they can more easily step into the most authentic and magnetic version of themselves and live the life they have always dreamed of. Connect with Hannah for a free call.
Website here.
HOST:
Christina Smith is a life coach specializing in confidence and self-love in midlife so that women can finally truly like themselves and how they show up for themselves and their relationships.
CONNECT with Inviting Shift & Christina on Social:
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FREE GIFT: The Confidence Tool Kit is here to help you walk into the second half like a queen (because you are one already). Get it here.
Email me and tell me what you think: christina@christina-smith.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Christina Smith (00:01):
Welcome back.
This week we are talking aboutrelationships and I'm very
excited about this conversationbecause I really really could
use it this week.
As I was looking through mynotes and bringing up some
thoughts about what I mightspeak about, what we might speak
about, I was just like, oh oh,this is, this, is, these are the
(00:22):
things that you would give yourclients exactly what you need,
christina.
How peculiar that that alwaysseems to happen magically and
some kind of synchronicity.
Anyway, I have with me AmyStone and Hannah Blackburn and
we are going to talk aboutrelationships and midlife and
(00:42):
how relationships shift.
I think that I know I had thisdream that I would have
girlfriends from like my teenageyears and then have them
forever, and it's like I can't.
Even some people are very luckyto have childhood friends.
My husband has a whole group ofthem.
I do not have any of thosefriends.
Our lives changed, and so thatjust shows how relationships can
(01:07):
change, and it doesn't have tobe bad.
Just is, you know, the changingthing.
So, without any further ado,let's just introduce our guests
and have them introducethemselves.
Hey, amy, how are you?
Amy Stone (01:20):
I'm good.
I'm so happy that you're here.
Yay, all right, my name is AmyStone.
I live in sunny Miami Florida,which is not so sunny today, and
what I do these days is I havea transformational life coach
for step-parents and adults inblended families Really,
basically any adult who has afamily and is looking for more
(01:42):
pleasure and joy and less stress, right?
So what does that mean?
What do I do?
How do I?
How did I get there?
I have you guys.
I have a bunch of kids.
I have two stepkids.
I was a stepmom before I was amom.
I did you talk aboutrelationships, which we can talk
more about that I went intothat situation with all of the
optimism and positivity andnaivete that you can do as a 24,
(02:06):
27-year-old person.
I thought I was nice, they werenice, what could possibly go
wrong?
And then, to make thatsituation even easier, I very
quickly added two more kids,love kids, love family.
Gotta say they never, ever,ever simplify anything is my
master advice there.
I don't make anything easier andsimpler, and so I'm excited to
(02:28):
have this conversation Today.
I very much fall into thatcategory of midlife right smack
in the middle, proudly Gen X,and trying to reconcile the
reality that my favorite songsare now being played at the
grocery store.
Christina Smith (02:44):
Classic.
They're on classic radio.
Now I heard it the other day.
I was like this is classicradio and it was like Billy Idol
and I was like classic.
Amy Stone (02:53):
Am I classic?
I'll go with that.
I'm classic.
We're now classic.
There we go Officially.
Christina Smith (02:58):
Yeah, yeah, thank you, amy and Hannah.
Welcome to the Inviting Chefpodcast.
Yeah, thank you so much forhaving me.
Yeah, tell us a little bitabout you and what it is that
you do.
Hannah Blackburn (03:10):
So my name is Hannah, I live in London and I
am a transformational somaticcoach, so that means I help
people regulate their nervoussystems and achieve goals that
they believe that they can'tachieve, and achieve goals that
they believe that they can'tachieve by shifting fears,
blocks, doubts, essentiallyanything that's held and stored
(03:33):
in our system.
So it could be trauma, it couldjust be old belief systems, it
could be ancestral, it could beyou know wherever we picked up
all these beliefs from?
And so, yeah, I help peopleshift the stuff that's in the
way, essentially helping peopleget out of their own way so that
they can really attract andcreate the life that they desire
, because I think there's a lotof people out there who do not
believe that they can have whatthey want, and I believe that
anyone can have exactly whatthey want.
(03:53):
There's just a method and ayeah the tools, I suppose, to
get there that are needed.
Christina Smith (04:00):
Yeah absolutely , and I love that, so Cause we
were even talking about thisbefore we started recording
about how, like, I get clientsthat come to me and go.
What's the point of working onrelationships, christina, if I
can't get the other person to goto therapy with me, or I can't
get the other person to do whatI think that they should be
doing Right?
And it's like you would besurprised how much one person
(04:24):
can impact a relationship,because if you're in this weird
like do loop of getting angryand in a bad space, or you have
the same argument over again, ifsomebody breaks that cycle, the
other person has to responddifferently, because you know,
keep go ahead, keep yelling, butI'm going to walk away.
(04:46):
Well, that person's not goingto keep yelling, right, we're
going to have to find a new wayto communicate if I'm going to
walk away, and every time you'reyelling and you yell a lot.
So I mean we can make a hugedifference.
I think what it comes down tofor me and I don't want to go
into this too deep because Iwant to talk about why
relationships change, butthey're hard.
I think we expect them to beeasy all the time and that we're
(05:09):
just going to show up and itshould be happily ever after.
Isn't that what happens?
You meet the Prince Charming,you marry them and things are
just smooth, kind of Amy, likeyou were saying in your intro,
like, of course, we're all nicepeople, we can get along.
Doesn't that make a family?
Amy Stone (05:27):
Well, right, that's where the movie ends, right, the
movie ends with Happily EverAfter, nobody gave us the book.
That's like, what does it taketo make that happen?
And one of the crazy thingsthat I think about a lot now,
looking back over severaldecades, is that surprise, right
, that surprise that it was like, well, I thought this was
(05:48):
supposed to be easy and Iactually thought that being a
child was the piece that maybetrained me to be a parent, which
doesn't turn out to be true.
In my experience.
They're two differentexperiences, right.
Being a kid trained me to be akid.
Being a parent is how I learnedto be a parent.
Being a step-parent is how Ilearned to be a step-parent, and
(06:08):
that has been a crazy, crazyrealization for me.
I've had, like I have these, Icall them the moments where you
look for an adult to your adult,where you find yourself in a
situation where somebody expectsyou to do something.
Like you know, fix the plumbing.
Like, deal with a cloggedtoilet.
You know a leak.
Like you know, fix the plumbinglike deal with a clogged toilet
.
You know a leak.
You know, continue to do thelaundry.
(06:32):
And you're just like how am Ithe person who's in charge of
this and you like look over yourshoulder like shouldn't there
be somebody else that I can?
Where is the adult to youradult to tell me how to do this?
Christina Smith (06:38):
Fortunately, that is your circus and those
are your monkeys.
Amy Stone (06:42):
It's the most painful realization.
In the middle of the night it'slike wow, my circus, my monkeys
.
Christina Smith (06:50):
Yeah, and it's lovely too, I'm sure it is no.
Of course, lots of beautifulmoments.
We're not taking that away, butthat's that's what we mean,
like even like, oh, you knowwhen, when we were young, we
were like oh well, I knowexactly how I'm going to parent
and I'm going to do it perfectly, and this is what my parents
are doing wrong, and I'm nevergoing to do any of those things
or say any of those things ormake my kid feel this way.
(07:12):
And it was like yeah, right.
Amy Stone (07:16):
Well, one of the.
I don't know if you experiencedthis, Christina or Hannah, but
one of the craziest things thatI have realized as an adult is
when I was a teenager, I thoughtI was delightful.
You guys, I thought I wasdelightful and then, being in
the situation where I'm livingwith other small people, I have
come to this stunning.
I watch them do things that Imyself did as a child and I
(07:38):
think to myself, huh, not at allfucking delightful.
I'm so sorry I just cursed onyour show, but it's like.
It's like I see them do it andI was like, oh, you know, I
don't think I was maybe asdelightful to live with as I
thought I was.
I was delightful to my friends,but I'm pretty sure that my
parents and my aunts and unclesand grandparents were like, wow,
we are looking forward to thisperson growing up a little bit.
Christina Smith (08:00):
Yeah, yeah, we call them the huff and puff ears
with my stepdaughter.
Huff and puff ears, yeah, thosewere challenging, you do?
Amy Stone (08:08):
you do have a lot of control of how you experience it
, right?
So you were saying, if you walkout of the room, you know it
makes it harder to people yellat you.
And one of the things I'velearned is the other part of it,
(08:31):
which is like sometimes youlearn not to walk into the room,
right?
It's like, oh, if this personis not willing to meet me where
I am, then the shift that I canmake is how much I'm willing to
put myself in the firing line.
You know and I think Hannah wastalking about that a little bit
before we got on the thing it'slike it changes how we want to
see our life, changes how otherpeople, how we allow other
(08:51):
people to interact with us yeah,exactly, and I obviously you
guys are talking about this likeon the behavioral level,
because that's like the obvioussign of things.
Hannah Blackburn (08:59):
And then there's the like energetic side
of things, like when we start tochange how we feel about our
own sense of self-worth, and Ithink that's really interesting
as well, like the way thatrelationships mirror back to us,
our sense of self.
Ultimately, like, the strongerwe feel in ourself, the more
able we are to set boundaries,and I think it's really
(09:20):
interesting that people, howpeople react to boundaries when
they're not so spoken, let's saythat, when they're not so overt
, when the boundaries are moreso, this is what I'm going to
tolerate and, just as you said,actually, amy, it's more like
I'm going to choose not to enterthe room.
That's kind of an energeticboundary.
That's kind of like I don'teven need to tell you, but I'm
(09:40):
just going to allow you to feelwhere I'm at with this and I
think that's really powerful aswell.
Right, that kind of, yeah,showing people how you want to
be treated.
I think it's super powerful,yeah.
Christina Smith (09:54):
Right.
I mean, when I think about it,like there are certain people
they don't have to tell you yourboundaries, you just kind of
behave around them.
You know what I mean?
We kind of respect that justbecause we can feel that.
And then there's people who wedo have to set the boundary with
, and it doesn't mean that there, that there's anything wrong
with that, it's.
(10:15):
It's really easy for me to belike hey, um, I think I just set
a boundary the other day withmy husband, but it was spoken.
It was like hey, when I'm in myworkspace and you come in,
you're like emoting stuff.
Could you just give me awarning?
Like I would love a warning.
If not, I might have to stopyou and take a breath or
(10:36):
something, because my brain ishere and that is really hard for
me to do that.
I'm not really a good switcher.
I have to like I need a momentand a breath, and so just having
those boundaries and myhusband's really good, we're
really good at hearing eachother and doing our best.
Right, we don't always succeedbut doing our best.
(10:57):
But boundaries are somethingthat we don't like to speak.
And even before that, how about?
Like?
One of the biggest tips I havefor people and it sounds so
ridiculously simple is askingfor what one is really important
.
And and I know this is kind offlipping over, but I think so
(11:19):
often we like miss so muchcommunication or we have to have
so much communication and youknow, miscommunication just
because we're not asking forwhat we want.
We go about it in differentways, right, amy?
Amy Stone (11:39):
Yeah, specialist, but establishing or reestablishing
the connection between my bodyexperience, my like somatic
experience of living, and youlearning to use that as cues to
figure out like, what do I want?
and what is important to me andalso you can maybe.
What do I not want?
(12:00):
Like, oh my gosh, this react,my body is reacting to this in a
physical sense, and what doesthat mean?
And trusting, creating thesafety and security, like the
skills to create for yourselfthe safety and security to be
able to speak up for that um andto lean into it, um and and.
And.
The other side of that, which is, you know, often more urgent,
(12:23):
is um is learning thattransition from child children
give that responsibility to theadults in their life.
It's the adult's responsibilityto create safety for a child.
Then you magically become anadult and if you don't figure it
out, you will still give thatauthority and the power to the
other people in your life andyou may not realize, but you
will give your boss and yourboyfriend and the homeless guy
(12:47):
on the corner.
You just automatically assumethat they are in charge of
creating safety for you, whichmakes it very hard to ask for
what you want, right.
And then trusting yourself andsaying, no, it's okay for me to
stand up and say I actuallydon't like it when you walk into
my office or hey, I don't wantto talk about politics with you
it upsets me.
Or, by the way, this meal thatyou make every Thursday night, I
(13:11):
think is disgusting.
You know that one probablydoesn't go over as well in a
family as the others but, youknow like that that process and
seeing putting it all together,it's, it's complex and the cues
are confusing.
Christina Smith (13:29):
Yeah, what I loved what you said about that
was I remember one time I walkedinto my husband's office while
I was talking to him and I wasjust like, hey, you don't spend
enough time with me.
And blah, blah, blah, blah,blah.
I was feeling really small inthat moment, I'm sure.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
I was feeling really small inthat moment, I'm sure, and
unimportant and all of theseother things, and I just like,
(13:49):
and he's like what is it thatyou want around this, though?
And I was like what do I want?
I want you to make me feelloved, Like.
And he's like yeah, and how canI do that?
And it's like right, right, sowhat is?
Amy Stone (14:01):
it that you want?
What am I?
Christina Smith (14:03):
asking for and it took me a while to be like
actually I want one night a weekwhere there's no phones, no
other appointments, it's just usand we don't have to do
anything fancy, but just that wehave dedicated time for each
other and it's just connectiontime.
Connection time that was aneasy ask.
(14:27):
I mean it wasn't easy at firstbecause my husband was a really
busy man.
So for him to tell people oncea week that he wasn't going to
have any calls, any meetings,nothing was a lot for him.
But at the same time, getting meto the point of like past that
emotional barrier, I guessthat's part of the energetic
right.
It's like the somatic healingis like trying to pull.
What is this underneath allthis motion?
(14:49):
What is it that I actually wantand need?
Because let me tell you, it wasa lot easier when I could just
be like here's exactly what Ineed, and then he could be like
yes or no and not just be like,oh, I'll try to make you happy.
I mean, that's just aridiculous request when you
don't know if that persondoesn't know what they want and
(15:10):
they can't ask for it and Ialways get from women, but they
should know.
Amy Stone (15:16):
I will admit I have not ever found that the people
in my family can read my mind.
I wish they could, but I havenever found that.
And the other thing to dovetailinto the theme of this podcast,
christina, is I think that thatchanges.
So what I wanted from mypartners when I was in my 20s
was completely different to whenwe had a bunch of small
(15:38):
children, and now that I'mlooking at empty nest it's
totally different.
Right, it was like when I wasin the chaos of small children.
I wanted, you know quiet time,you know at home and or maybe
girlfriend time, and you can getcaught in the ruts, right, like
you can do the same thing overand over again for years and
(15:58):
then you have to rethink it andbe like why does this no longer
make me happy?
Christina Smith (16:03):
I love that.
Yeah, it does.
It does change.
It doesn't mean that we didn'tknow.
It just means that whatever wehad before doesn't fit.
Hannah, how are you feelingabout this?
You're like on the younger sideof the midlife, so I'm curious
of your you know thoughts aboutthis and the energy no.
Hannah Blackburn (16:21):
Listen to you both.
I have so much to say on this.
Like I, I love the topic ofboundaries.
I find it so interesting andjust off the back of both of
what what you were saying aboutfeeling into the yes, feeling
into the no.
This is something that I'vebeen doing quite a lot with
myself recent next year as wellas clients.
It's that because I think we,when we think of boundaries, a
lot of the time we think aboutwhat don't we want, is that
(16:42):
there's that real sense of likeright, I'm going to tell you how
I feel and and this is what I'mnot accepting but sometimes we
forget to feel into what the yesis like, what we're a yes to,
and I think they're both asimportant as each other.
So I think, just feeling intoboth of that, like how is the
body reacting to the no, the yes, and also how is it reacting
(17:03):
when we say no, because a lot ofthe time we don't give
ourselves permission to say nobecause there's these fears
around well, if I say no, thenI'm gonna lose this person If I
say no, like all these kinds ofstories that we create about it.
So it's been really interestingfor me on my own personal
journey because I think for themost part of my life I'm 31
years old, I'd say for most ofmy 20s.
(17:25):
I know most of relationships inour 20s are a bit of a shit show
, but I just feel like my 20s, Inever was able to ask for what
I needed and for what I wanted.
But I never knew that that wasthe case.
You know, until doing that workI just understood that that's
how relationships went, that Ijust had to repress and I just
(17:45):
had to kind of accept ifsomething didn't feel right.
But I think back then I wasmaybe so numb and disassociated
I didn't even realize that thatwas the case.
So, having done this work, it'sreally interesting to notice
how my relationships havestarted to shift, as I've
started to find my yes, find myno.
I'm still not there yet, like Istill haven't quite met the
(18:07):
emotionally available man.
I still keep attracting thesemen who are not available to my
needs, and so it's just showingme okay, well, I've still got
work to do there.
I've still got work to dobecause maybe I'm not so certain
about my yes or my no as Ithought I was.
So it's just using theserelationships to show me and
show us like where we're at interms of our development.
Amy Stone (18:32):
I think that's really I think that's a really grown
up description of what you'regoing through Like.
So my experience in my 20s to30s was a little bit different.
In my 20s I was really able topretty much solve things by
myself.
I was like I got this, like Ididn't find myself saying yes or
no to things because it reallydidn't matter.
I was like, yeah, I can do this, like this is not a problem.
(18:57):
And then I, when I jumped intoa family, I was like, yeah, I
can do this, like this is not aproblem.
And then I, when I jumped intoa family, I was like, oh my gosh
, I cannot do all of this All ofa sudden.
It was very impossible and Ihad never practiced that like
getting you know, gettingsupport and asking for help and
all of those things, and it waslike a two by four to the head.
My 20s.
Christina Smith (19:15):
I just I just put a question up in my Facebook
group that was like what wouldyou have called your 20s if it
was a book?
And mine was like cringe the redflag collector, I definitely
was not listening to my body,the yes or a no.
I even got really physicallyill in my 30s because I had not
(19:35):
listened to my body, reallyphysically ill in my thirties
because I had not listened to mybody.
And in the meantime I'm gettinginto these relationships that I
had no business being inwhatsoever.
Um, and because I didn't listento my body and it really took
me even though I got sick in mythirties and started healing
that it really took me into myforties before I was able to
(19:56):
really feel that yes or no.
And now, like I set intentionalwords with my clients.
So if it doesn't feel like this, whether that's a relationship,
a situation or whatever, thenit's probably not for me or
aligned with me.
And I think that that's whereyou're going, hannah, right,
like starting to, like reallyget to what is the energy I want
(20:16):
to be aligned with.
Hannah Blackburn (20:18):
Yeah, and there's actually a point that
I've just realized that I kindof want to mention, because we
were talking before about thisidea of safety, like sourcing
safety.
And I think for some peoplelistening they might be like
well, what the hell does thateven mean?
And I think it's also a pointto note that what feels safe to
some people is just what'sfamiliar or to all of
us right, it's just what'sfamiliar.
(20:39):
So so for me I've alwaysattracted relationships that
have never served me, that havenever.
You know they've been nice inthe beginning but that they
haven't really nourished me andI've never really got what I
needed from it.
But they felt safe at the time.
And so I suppose the point islike, how can we, you know, if
we are attracting theserelationships, what in us is
(20:59):
creating that Like, what is thatfamiliarity that we're
attracting and sometimes likeaddicted to?
I suppose if you've got ananxious attachment style like me
, so I'm addicted to that kindof chase and I can now be so
aware of it, I probably willstill have that addiction until
it's cleared it.
I probably will still have thataddiction until it's it's
cleared.
(21:19):
And when I say addiction, it'smy, my nervous system is just
attracted to that type of person.
Um, but yeah, I just think it'san interesting point to make,
because it's like the safetykind of has to be cultivated.
If it's not there and I guessfor a lot of us it isn't is it
like we've all had piecesmissing?
Like both of you were sayingbefore, there's no such thing as
perfect parenting.
We're always going to misssomething.
There's going to be a littlebit of trauma somewhere for the
(21:41):
children, but we just can't helpit, can we like it's just life
so yeah yeah yeah, I thinkthat's a.
Amy Stone (21:47):
I mean, I think that that's like a whole master class
, like in, you know, picking outyour like, digging into your
origin story and figuring outwhat are the things that you
don't actually want to, what arethe things that feel familiar,
that we misidentify as thesafety we want as adults?
Right, because sometimes it issafety.
(22:10):
Right, we want to repeat thatfriendly, fun thing that we had
as a kid, and on other timesit's things that we don't, but
we don't realize it because wedidn't, we didn't identify the
discomfort or we weren't taughtor we weren't supported in it.
And there's levels of that,right, like there's like things
that are not really a big deal.
(22:31):
And then there's like honestabuse and people who are, you
know, stockholm syndrome, right,and so there's all kinds of
things in there.
And then, like, so there'sidentifying it, becoming aware
of the pattern and the awarenessthat, oh, you know what, even
though I really really like thischocolate ice cream, if I eat
(22:53):
the whole container I will feellike crap.
So it's like picking it up andthen going through and trying to
reestablish other things to getwhat we think we want.
And that the next phase, I think, hannah, is like when you
figure out what you think youwant, it feels the opposite of
safe.
It feels like you were jumpingoff a cliff or at the top of a
(23:15):
rollercoaster hill, like you'relike all right, so what I think
I want is this wonderfulrelationship with this person.
But then when it shows up infront, if it's something you've
never had before, it feels theopposite of secure.
It's like danger.
Danger, will Robinson, danger.
Christina Smith (23:29):
Yeah, I had no like, not no, I had limited
personal interpersonal skills.
When I met my husband, I thinkhe, like I knew that he was the
kind of man I wanted to be withmy this is my second husband,
but I knew the kind of man thatI wanted to be with.
But when I was with that it waslike, oh so he's just gonna
(23:52):
hold boundaries and I'm gonnahave to figure this out Like I'm
gonna have to do my own work.
I'm going to have to like, if Iwant to be with somebody I
think this tails off of whatHannah was saying is like our
energy will shift and then we'llattract different people.
And I think that that is sorelatable, especially in midlife
(24:12):
, because a lot of us, you know,shift friends.
I had a couple of friends whereI'm just not friends with them
in the last year, even though wewere like really really close
before that.
And I think, as we shift, wedon't need to feel bad about,
like Amy was saying, you know,not even going into the room
(24:34):
anymore, not picking up thephone or not texting all the
time, right, we don't reallyhave to feel bad about that.
That's just energy that is notno longer in alignment with what
it is that we need.
And I mean, I'm not saying thatwe can do this with every
relationship.
Obviously there could bedifferent boundaries.
I have boundaries with my mom.
(24:56):
I talk to her several times ayear and that's where our
relationship lives, becausethat's what feels good to both
of us.
If we wanted anything else, wewould ask for it, but that's
what feels safe for us in thatrelationship.
So I think that relationshipscan change and I know this is
true and I hope it's truebecause I want to build more
(25:18):
relationships and moreconnections.
And I don't know, has yourexperience been with like
friendships?
Amy Stone (25:28):
You know, I think that's a fascinating topic right
now because I am personally ina spot where my friend group is
probably in a place to changeLike.
So for the last 25 years, I'vebeen connected to various parent
school groups through my kids,right, and that is like a
constant fire hose ofopportunities to connect with
(25:48):
people who are parents of sameage children.
Right, I'm about to be an emptynester and you know, if you
like, Hannah has not livedthrough this yet, but you don't
always have actually a lot ofstuff in common with the other
parents in the school groups.
Like, your only connection isthat your kids are in the same
school.
But you know it's like now Ihave the opportunity to reinvent
(26:09):
and shift things, and I don'teven know what these people are
going to do, like I hope totravel and and do these fun
things, and you know like we can, it's going to shift.
It's going to totally shiftpeople.
Some people are going to docompletely different things and,
um and I actually am veryexcited about it Um, a lot of
people who are in the same spotof me are like feeling anxiety
(26:31):
and trepidation.
Um, because they really theyfeel safe and comfortable in the
parent bubble, the schoolparent bubble, which is good,
right, that's totally that'swhere they are.
I think that one of the classicexamples of that sensation so
Martha Beck describes this asthe empty elevator, when you're
transitioning and the peoplearound you are not, so like
(26:53):
you're in a full elevator, butthen it empties out because
people step out and then you'rein it by yourself and you've got
to figure out how to fill itback up, and so I think that's
kind of a fun visual, but it'ssomething that we always go
through.
One of the big places thatpeople go through this is if
they change habits fromsomething that was destructive
and then they need to changetheir circle to support their
(27:14):
healthy habits right.
The other one that people seeand Hannah might be seeing this
in her age group is when wepartner up, some people break
off and have families and theydon't socialize anymore with
people who don't have children,right, like we're as much.
It's that weird.
You know you go through thatage period where you're going to
50 weddings a year.
You know you're broke becauseall you have to do is buy
(27:36):
wedding presents.
And then some people havefamilies and kids and other
people don't, and they don't dothe same things.
Like your single friends callyou and they're like, hey, let's
go to the Bahamas for theweekend.
And you're like I have littlepeople, I am not available.
Christina Smith (27:51):
Yeah, so it changes when we have children.
Often then it also can changewhen we no longer have children
and that's where, like, womentend to struggle because they're
like how do I, now that I'm anempty nester, how do I meet new
friends?
And it's like you actually haveto go out, be social.
Amy Stone (28:09):
I know you have to people with the people.
You have to do the peopling tomeet the people.
Yes, you have to do thepeopling to meet the people.
Hannah Blackburn (28:18):
Yes, yeah, it's interesting what both of
you are saying actually, becauseI feel like I'm at that age
where some of my friends aremarried and some of them have
kids, but very few.
I feel very fortunate actuallythat a lot of my friends are
probably quite far off havingkids and I have quite a few
single friends, I would say,which is quite nice.
I feel like I'll be enteringthat period at some point, maybe
in the next few years.
(28:38):
But it's so interesting thatwe're having this conversation
because I was literally justthinking about this before the
call.
I didn't get panicky about it,but I had this moment of like,
oh god, like I can feel thatcertain friendships are starting
to change and certain peopleare like our relationships are
not the same, and there was justthis kind of like genuine fear
(28:59):
actually that came up of likeshit, like I might lose some of
my really close friends here,and I hope that to not be the
case, and I guess it would not.
You know, relationships willnaturally shift, but there was
like a genuine fear there oflike I can sense that things are
changing and it's that likefear of change, isn't it?
But also like not wanting tolose those friendships.
(29:21):
And I don't think I will have to.
But I suppose it's one of thosethings where some people will
naturally just leave from mylife and I'll attract other
people who are more on that samevibration.
So it's that kind of beingcoming into acceptance, of
letting go of what was.
I guess there's.
I'm in a weird transition.
I think I'm in a weirdtransition where I think I'm
(29:43):
having loads of breakthroughsand I can feel myself really
about to have a quantum leap andyou know when you can just feel
I don't know if either of youcan relate I feel like I'm on
the cusp of big changes andmaybe some big shifts and it's
kind of scary actually but theunknown right, the unknown is
always a little scary, I think.
Christina Smith (30:01):
Oh no, I think we uh lost amy to a storm, but
we'll keep talking see if shecan pop back.
I was just thinking, as, as, um, you both were talking, where's
my mouse?
Um, I was thinking about what'sreally yeah, she's back.
What I really loved about thatwas, uh, so we talk about these
(30:24):
friends that you have to leavebehind.
But what's been really lovelyfor me is as I've been on my
growth journey.
I was working really closelywith an organization called
woman within and I I developednew relationships, um, with
women who really inspire me,like I remember sitting on the
(30:44):
board going, wow, these womenare so cool and half of them are
my friends.
So I don't want to, I don'twant it to be like doom and
gloom for midlife.
I want us to remember thatthere's there are a lot of
really awesome relations.
There's a lot of people thatwill get on the elevator right,
we just have to, we have to findthem in the right places and we
(31:08):
want to, um, we want to, youknow, not just jump into safety,
but you grow a relationship.
Is what I've learned over, youknow, the last 10 or 15 years.
I didn't have really greatrelationships when I was young
cause we moved so often, butlike I've learned, you grow the
safety.
There's friends that I was onlylike acquaintances with for
(31:30):
like eight years.
Then all of a sudden we hungout more and I trusted them more
and we did more things togetherand it was like.
So I feel like, even thoughI've had to let go of some
relationships that hurt, I havestepped into a time that feel
really good, they feel inspiring, they feel really collaborative
(31:51):
and like supporting each otherand you know really pushing each
other, like supporting eachother and you know really
pushing each other.
I have great coaching friends.
I mean I just I feel really,really blessed and, with that
being said, a lot of that wasbecause I chose that I went and
had women's circles.
I went and was social.
(32:11):
When there wasn't what I wantedin an area that I moved to, I
created it so that I could meetmore women.
So I have incrediblerelationships.
Amy Stone (32:21):
And I think that you deserve a gold star for doing
the work to create what youwanted because that is a lot
easier to say than it is to doLike it really takes courage,
right?
You know it's like.
It's like all right, this iswhat I want.
(32:41):
And then you have that likemiddle school cafeteria moment
where you're like is anybodygoing to come?
Like, are people going to?
Like, am I going to be the onlyperson who comes to my circle?
You know it's, it's, I meanperson who comes to my circle.
You know it's, it's, I meanit's, it's, it's beautiful, it's
beautiful.
And I think that what I want tosort of give you credit for and
show you as an example of atransformation is that you are
(33:05):
the example of creating thecommunity that you wanted.
You are the example that it canwork, that if you that the risk
is worth the reward, that it'sscary at the beginning and it's
hard work, but that you, whenlistening to you talk about
these amazing relationships thatyou've created, is like I mean
(33:26):
awesome, awesome.
Christina Smith (33:29):
And it did take work.
I mean, I just want everybodyto know like it's not like I was
, like I hosted one event andsuddenly I had best friends Like
the the friends that I have arefrom all over the place and but
we, we also do the work of likehey, we have a date each one of
my friends because I'm sonomadic.
Uh, we have a date every monththat we're going to meet on that
(33:50):
night.
If we don't meet on that, Imean we can always renegotiate
it, but it's set on the calendarso that we are ensure that we
are connected every month and wehave great conversations.
Um, and so, yeah, it's reallyagain, no, no, easy happily ever
after.
You kind of have to create yourhappily ever after.
Hannah Blackburn (34:12):
Yeah, totally, I think.
I think, um, I've definitelystarted to create those kind of
friends.
I think coaching friends arelike the best kind of friends,
because you just get each otheron a different kind of level,
don't you?
Especially when they're goinginto this like deep,
transformational work?
I think it's for me it's likethat it's probably the age group
that I'm in as well.
(34:32):
It's that kind of when thingsstart to shift, like when people
start to get into seriousrelationships or when people
start to have children,especially like my best friends
and I'm the single one, so thatof course there's kind of those
thoughts.
You know that there's.
There's natural thoughts oflike things are starting to
change and I'm starting tochange.
So it's that kind of transitionperiod where I absolutely trust
(34:54):
life and I know I have the mostamazing future ahead of me.
But I just feel like it it is abit difficult at the age of 31,
actually to like be goingthrough this transition period
and having to let go of things.
It's kind of, yeah, just lettinggo of what you once knew and
just being comfortable in theunknown.
I think for me that's notalways been easy.
It's kind of it's a bitunsettling.
(35:16):
So I imagine in the next likefive years things will start to
settle, because I imagine I willmyself be in a serious
relationship.
That's what I see for myself.
But it's just one of thosethings, isn't it Like single
amongst loads of people inrelationships.
It's a funny one.
Amy Stone (35:35):
Well, it is.
That's why they make all therom-coms about it.
Like, in every rom-com, thereis the, you know, there are the
people who are not coupled up.
There is the friend who is the,you know the, the bestie who
plays the wing person who makesthe rom-com hilarious.
They're all you know like.
But you know it's not, it's noteasy.
It's like we don't live in amovie, right?
So, even though it would be funactually, that's one of the
(35:56):
things I always like when peopleare thinking about this,
sometimes I will be like I'mlike if your life was a movie,
but how do you want it to playout?
Like you know, how do you wantthis story to be retold of you
in your situation right now?
You know, and that's especiallyhelpful when I'm talking to
parents who are like, what Iwant to do is scream at my kids
and I'm like, okay, so if thiswas a movie and we were
replaying it, how do you wantthe story of you fighting with
(36:18):
your kids about Rice-A-Roni tobe played back?
Christina Smith (36:23):
Right, yeah, no , absolutely.
How do you want to have beenknown to show up, right?
What does that look like?
And yeah, so we're talkingabout family changes and I know
that there's so many 30 to 60,that's like your entire um ages
30 to 60 is like, and lettingthem go and doing other things,
(36:50):
and so there's so many changesthat happen that I find amazing.
Now, luckily, I only raised onekid full time, because I don't
know how I would have done witha whole Brady bunch of family
members.
That would have been a lot ofkids for me, really took a lot
(37:16):
of energy.
And what I love about I loveempty nesting and Hannah, you
may not have much to say aboutthis, but I know that Amy will I
have so much to say and how itchanges, not just your
relationship with you, know,your kids, cause you're no
longer that full-time mom we'restill moms, but we're not
full-time but how it changed myrelationship with my husband,
because we had all this time andthen, right when my kid
(37:39):
graduated, or the year that hewas graduating was was the
pandemic.
So then it was like it wasreally just us and we had been
the Southwest, so we were awayfrom both of our families, so it
really became a littleinteresting.
Let's say there was so manytransitions there at one time
(38:02):
and I guess what happened withus is I would love it when he
would go away for a weekend todo men's work or whatever.
I'm like you want to be awayfor a week to see your family.
Absolutely Like, leave me alone.
So there's a little bit morefreedom and we're not fighting
(38:23):
for time like we were.
Amy Stone (38:25):
That is I mean not that this is your experience,
but that is like, statisticallythat's the biggest.
That's where people are gettingdivorced now, like what do we
call it?
Silver grade divorce orsomething is the fastest growing
thing, which is basically womenand men who have done the job
of raising the kids, and thenthe kids launch and the parents
are like I never want to see youagain.
I'm moving across the country.
(38:46):
Goodbye.
Thank you so much, and not thatthat's what you know.
That's neither here nor therehow it is.
But I do think that that is oneof the most interesting
challenges, because if you'regoing to live to be a hundred
right, and your kids move outwhen you're 55, you know you're
looking at 45 years with thatsame person, you know.
(39:10):
So, um, I am right there withyou.
The other day this is a storyfrom this week I'm not an empty
nester yet, but I walked into myhouse and my husband had
spilled coffee on the floor,somehow walked through it and
hadn't noticed, and there was atrail I don't even know how
that's possible, I literallydon't understand this and there
was a path from the kitchen tohis office of coffee colored
(39:33):
feet and I was like whathappened here and he's like what
are you talking about?
I don't know.
And I was like, did you spillthe coffees?
Like I don't think.
So.
I was like, oh my God, and inthe moment I was like deeply
craving, like I was like I lookforward to a day where the only
messes that I will clean up arethe ones that I make.
(39:55):
You know like, and I don'tactually look forward to that,
like that, you know, it's likebless the mess and I'm happy for
my family, like it's beautiful.
But I was just like, seriously,how, like, how, why is this?
You know, how do you not know?
Christina Smith (40:06):
And I understand that because we just
we were living alone for fiveyears and now and now we moved
in with family because agingparents and whatnot and uh, just
like hannah's been saying, youknow nothing and and you also
like nothing like being in closerelationship with other people
(40:28):
and know where your energy isand what's going on and seeing
all of the stuff, seeing thatmirror part of us and being like
christina.
What's going on?
And seeing all of this stuff,seeing that mirror part of us
and being like Christina.
What's that judgment about?
Can we let that go?
And you know, with my husbandbeing in his childhood home,
that changes his energy as well.
You know like he's got a lotmore young boy energy in him
(40:53):
than he did before, for thebetter or worse depending on the
day.
Amy Stone (40:58):
So you guys are, you guys are in his childhood home.
That's gotta be superfascinating actually.
Christina Smith (41:03):
Yeah, about uh, two other three other full-time
people and three otherpart-time people that come and
go and we're close to his familyso they drop in whenever they
want.
So it's a lot different lifethan we had where, like you know
, we were so secluded.
(41:24):
We had some friends wherever wewere going, but it was really,
it was really just us and hewould go away and I'd have alone
time and I mean we would havefriends, visit and stuff.
But he like yeah, it was.
It's a much different setup now.
So, um, so, which is why I waslooking at relationship tips and
what would I offer people andthe one that came up that I just
(41:48):
texted my husband before thiswas we have to look at conflict
differently, that it's not youagainst me, it's us against the
problem, and I think that sooften when we're in an emotional
disagreement, we forget that.
We forget that we're actuallyon the same side.
(42:12):
It's not you that I'm arguingwith or fighting here.
We're trying to approach thisproblem.
We're trying to win over thischallenge that we're having.
That's what we're looking forand for me because probably
because the way I was raised,it's so easy for me to go into I
want to make this other personwrong instead of well, what is
(42:36):
the actual problem?
And let's get through theemotional stuff so that we can
see what is the actual problem,what do we each want out of it
and how can we best make thathappen, if it's possible, but I
think so often we can get.
I mean, you can see it in thepolitics in the United States
too.
It's just like if you don'tbelieve what I believe, you're
absolutely wrong, and it's likethat's why we don't solve
(42:58):
anything, because we'reconstantly fighting each other
instead of working with eachother.
How can we actually, let's youknow, focus on the problem, not
on bringing each other down orpoking or whatever?
Amy Stone (43:12):
And I just want to say that is one of the best
times to bring in a third personto help you through it, because
when you're in the bottle, it'svery hard to read the label
from inside the bottle, right?
So, like when you'reemotionally attached to the
problem, I mean you have a lotof skills, christina, you've got
a lot of talent, you've got alot of knowledge.
(43:33):
For you to work through thatwith your husband is, you know,
is a lot of work, christina,you've got a lot of talent,
you've got a lot of knowledge.
For you to work through thatwith your husband is a lot of
work for you.
For most people, they're livingthrough this feeling like there
is no other option and a thirdperson a coach, an advisor, a
counselor they're the people whocan rubber duck for you, like,
(43:54):
bounce back to you and be likeyou know, hey, this is what I'm
hearing, this is what you'redoing and try to redirect you to
being problem focused.
Right?
So it's like fighting over whowill take out the trash, right?
If you harp on it with yourpartner like that they're doing
it wrong and they need to do ityour way, you can have that
(44:14):
fight forever and the trash willnever get taken out.
You have to like actually stopand say okay, we actually need
to talk about how we're going toget the trash out of the house,
and I just want to offercompassion and grace for people
who don't see it, because Ithink that when you're in it,
you know it's really hard to seeit.
Yeah, I once had a countrysession with a person which was
(44:37):
an entire hour about potatoesLike a kid had eaten potatoes
that wasn't their share and itwas an entire hour of working on
it because she was so hurt bythe situation.
And when you think about it,it's like oh, it's just the
potatoes.
But one of the things she keptsaying to me she's like I'm so
happy that you're not sayingit's just the potatoes, and I
was like dude, there are ahundred times in my life in the
(44:58):
last year that I've been pissedoff about things like potatoes.
Like I get it that this is.
It hurts right.
Christina Smith (45:13):
It doesn't do me any good to tell you it meant
to her and how it must havebeen intended that way.
You know all that garbage and Ithink you were about to say
something.
Amy Stone (45:22):
If I was, I forgot Hannah weigh in.
Hannah Blackburn (45:36):
I'm deliberately single, but it's
why I'm kind of I'm I'm verymuch a stand for being single
and not settling forrelationships.
I suppose not that that's whatI'm getting from, from what
either of you are saying, but Iwas just thinking about it and I
was reflecting, because I'vedecided to dedicate the next six
months to kind of dating myselfand I think it's one of those
things where, even though, onthe one hand, I'm looking at all
of my friends in theserelationships and they're
getting married and having kids,like I don't really envy any of
(45:59):
that.
I'm kind of like that's cool,you've got your own little thing
going on.
But I just have these bigdreams of what I want my
relationship to look like andI'm more than happy to kind of
be over here doing my own workand eventually whoever it's
supposed to be will come by,kind of be over here doing my
own work and eventually whoeverit's supposed to be will come by
.
So it's just kind of all ofthis churning up just how like
relationships can be, so muchego and so much drama when the
(46:21):
people aren't doing their ownwork or the people don't know
how to do their own work, youknow, and I think it just
reminds me of how, like, whatthe kind of relationship is that
I want.
Right, and it's not to saythese sorts of things won't come
up, but it's like your abilityto heal together, I think is the
most important thing.
Right, like how you make up andhow you mend.
Amy Stone (46:43):
And I just want to say like, okay, so when you're a
kid, right, everybody you knowhas parents and so your world is
just everybody, that is,parents and kids.
But a lot of people like a lot,a lot, a lot of people have
very, very full, totallyenriching lives and they are not
a part of that.
And it's weird because it doesbecome this very tight circle of
(47:08):
react.
Kids are a huge amount of work,so you surround yourself with
other people who are goingthrough this monstrous job of
raising all these little peoplewho are not good at following
directions.
But I, about half of my friendgroup, are people who are
child-free by choice.
Some of them are married, someof them are not, and they the
number of times that I'm enviousof the freedom of my single
(47:31):
friends, my single child-freefriends, I mean a lot, a lot.
It's a great life.
I'd never want to be a personwho offers that up, that the
only path to happiness or theonly path to satisfaction and
joy is through that one singularrelationship or by filling up
(47:51):
your house with small versionsof yourself or by filling up
your house with small versionsof yourself it absolutely isn't.
Christina Smith (48:00):
And, hannah, bravo to you.
Yes, because I got married atlike 23 to what Dr Phil would
call a starter marriage.
It taught me a whole lot, butlet me tell you, the paperwork
wasn't worth it.
Amy Stone (48:13):
It's an expensive way to learn it.
Christina Smith (48:16):
It's an expensive lesson that way.
And after that marriage I waslike so set on who I wanted as a
partner and my friends werelike, oh, you're just a man
hater.
I'm like, I'm not a man hater.
So one night I went home and Iwrote down all the requirements
and I was like, if it ain't this, I want nothing to do with it,
(48:37):
Cause I'll do better on my own.
I'll be okay on my own.
This is exactly what I want.
If I can't get that, I'm notgetting it.
And like, years later it waslike we were moving in together,
me and my current husband, andI found the list and he checked
every single one.
And I found the list and hechecked every single one and I
was like, see, he wasn't beingpicky, I was just because it
wasn't like he's got to be 6'3with dark hair.
(48:59):
It was more like, you know, Iwant somebody who's doing their
work, I want somebody who'sgoing to take my son in like as
if it's his own child and notbecause I talked with Amy on her
podcast about my step parentingexperience and it was
challenging at best.
Um and so I knew exactly how Iwanted, what I wanted for my son
(49:22):
, what I wanted for me and yeah,and it all came true.
So take your time, manifest thething that you want.
It's not worth it in any otherway.
It's not a happily ever after.
It's going to be work.
If it's work before, it's goingto be work after.
Amy Stone (49:40):
But I love that you clarified how you made that list
, because I think we've probablyall known people who make the
list like they're going to thegrocery store, like you know
this height, this color hairworks at this company and it's
like, and that you know thosethings might shift right, those
(50:00):
things might shift and change,whereas, like, the more
character based stuff is key.
Christina Smith (50:08):
Yeah.
So, hannah, please take yourtime, choose the right one.
It all comes in your ownjourney.
And absolutely, amy, I meanwomen do not need to be married
or attached or have kids.
I mean they can do that in anycombination they want to do
these days, and so you know,allowing that to be.
Amy Stone (50:32):
But that's so easy to say, a lot harder to do because
the so what are the words weuse?
The socialized message that weget about our value as women is
still very much that.
You know, we are defined by theperson who chooses as a partner
.
We are defined by their socialstatus in the, in the community.
(50:53):
We are defined by how our kidsshow up and intellectually we
can know that that's nonsenseand it's really really important
, I think, forself-actualization and
self-growth to understand thatwe are our own individual people
.
But I give true weight andhonor and verity to the
(51:13):
challenge that is actuallyliving that life.
You know, like it's like.
You know just, you know it'sjust, it's really really hard to
walk that walk Cause that thatis.
It's like a fire hose ofshoulda, shoulda, shoulda that
has been forced on us for a longtime.
Hannah Blackburn (51:30):
Yeah, I think it's a journey defying.
That, isn't it?
Amy Stone (51:32):
I'm coming out of that.
Hannah Blackburn (51:36):
I think, yeah, I think it's a journey, defying
that, isn't it?
And coming out of that, yeah,yeah, all the norms, like I
think it, and I think it'sdefinitely changing.
I think it's just obviously asa as a worldwide thing it's
gonna be.
You know, we've got someprogress to make, but I suppose
it's an individual thing, isn'tit like?
Amy Stone (51:48):
we just change, we change ourselves on an
individual level and then itstarts to trickle outwards and I
I mean it's like right, sohumanity has been around for
however long humanity has beenaround.
I don't even know that I didn'tpay enough attention to history
class.
Like it took a while to getthese longstanding things.
The idea that it would like befixed between when I turned 12
(52:08):
and 150, it's probablyunrealistic.
You know it's, it's.
It's a little piece here and alittle piece there and tying it
into the social circlerelationships.
A piece of this is finding thecircle of people who have the
same worldview as you, right, solike, if you want to lead a
life as a feminist, independent,empowered woman and you find
(52:33):
yourself with a social circle oftrad wives, you're going to
feel a little bit out of syncwith that group.
You know, like that's, you knowthat's that's.
You know you gotta, you gottagotta exit stage left and find
your people.
No judgment right, no judgmentwhich one you want you know, but
yeah, yeah yeah, absolutely Allright.
Christina Smith (52:53):
So let's just wrap up maybe one piece of
wisdom or takeaway and howpeople can reach out to you.
So I guess I just want toreemphasize ask for what we want
.
I think it's one of the mostromantic things somebody could
do.
I know that we think it'sromantic when they just know
magically what it is that weneed.
(53:15):
And let me tell you, you cantake so much work out of the
relationship if both of you askfor what you want, because then
I don't have to guess, I canjust do that and you can just do
exactly what I have asked ifyou're available for that, and
we don't have to do the wholeguessing game.
So that's my wisdom.
Amy Stone (53:33):
So one piece of advice I think that I'm going to
use Hannah as the example,right, because I think that one
of the most powerful things wecan do is, um is take the time
to allow the noise to drop, toignore the noise and and get to
know ourselves.
Right, and she used the worddating herself, but it is
(53:59):
intentionally cutting off thethings that are influencing us,
that may be distractions, andcreating the space to listen to
ourselves so that we can makethe list that Christina is
talking about, so that we can dothe stuff.
It can be hard to knowourselves, and so that sounds
lonely and stuff, but it can behard to know ourselves, and so
that sounds lonely and stuff,but it's not.
It's the most exciting, amazingthing.
(54:20):
When it's like I want achocolate milkshake, I'm going
to go get a chocolate milkshakebecause I'm listening to myself.
It's a really, really powerfulthing to do and I think it can
be done.
So I'm Amy Stone, life Coach forStep Parents and Adults and
Blended Families.
The name of my company, youguys, is Amy Says so, because
I'm a little bossy and that'swhere I share all of the things
that I make and create forpeople and I have lots of free
(54:43):
stuff there.
You can go and get it and thatwill tap you in to let me tell
you all about the fun things I'mdoing.
Christina Smith (54:51):
Thank you.
Amy and Hannah, and all thelinks will be below for these
women so that you can connectwith them.
Hannah Blackburn (54:59):
Something that I've been reminding myself of
quite a lot when this is.
This could be for, like,personal goals, professional
goals.
It could be for attractingrelationships.
It could be for creatingsomething in a relationship, and
it's like who do I need tobecome to have the things that I
want to have?
Like, what, if I'm wanting toattract, say, it's a man who has
all of these differentqualities?
(55:20):
It's like, well, am I embodyingthese qualities myself?
And it's like, well, if I'm not, then how do I expect someone
to you know, to attract someoneof that same type, I suppose.
So I think it's always justlooking inwards If we're
dissatisfied with what's goingon outside in any part of our
life.
It's like, well, what is it inme that I'm dissatisfied with,
(55:41):
or what do I need to changeabout myself, my views?
You know my worth, whatever itis to actually have all of those
things.
So, yeah, it's a constantreminder for myself.
I've got it on like a littleboard I look at every day just
to kind of bring myself back tothat when I, when I lose myself
slightly.
Um, and yeah, the best way tofind me is I guess you'll have
the link to my website in your,in your notes.
(56:03):
But yeah just my website,wwwhannahblackburncom, and all
my details are on there.
Christina Smith (56:08):
Awesome.
Yeah, all of your informationwill be below, so go connect
with these beautiful women.
Thank you for being on today,thank,
Welcome back.
This week we are talking aboutrelationships and I'm very
excited about this conversationbecause I really really could
use it this week.
As I was looking through mynotes and bringing up some
thoughts about what I mightspeak about, what we might speak
about, I was just like, oh oh,this is, this, is, these are the
(00:22):
things that you would give yourclients exactly what you need,
christina.
How peculiar that that alwaysseems to happen magically and
some kind of synchronicity.
Anyway, I have with me AmyStone and Hannah Blackburn and
we are going to talk aboutrelationships and midlife and
(00:42):
how relationships shift.
I think that I know I had thisdream that I would have
girlfriends from like my teenageyears and then have them
forever, and it's like I can't.
Even some people are very luckyto have childhood friends.
My husband has a whole group ofthem.
I do not have any of thosefriends.
Our lives changed, and so thatjust shows how relationships can
(01:07):
change, and it doesn't have tobe bad.
Just is, you know, the changingthing.
So, without any further ado,let's just introduce our guests
and have them introducethemselves.
Hey, amy, how are you?
Amy Stone (01:20):
I'm good.
I'm so happy that you're here.
Yay, all right, my name is AmyStone.
I live in sunny Miami Florida,which is not so sunny today, and
what I do these days is I havea transformational life coach
for step-parents and adults inblended families Really,
basically any adult who has afamily and is looking for more
(01:42):
pleasure and joy and less stress, right?
So what does that mean?
What do I do?
How do I?
How did I get there?
I have you guys.
I have a bunch of kids.
I have two stepkids.
I was a stepmom before I was amom.
I did you talk aboutrelationships, which we can talk
more about that I went intothat situation with all of the
optimism and positivity andnaivete that you can do as a 24,
(02:06):
27-year-old person.
I thought I was nice, they werenice, what could possibly go
wrong?
And then, to make thatsituation even easier, I very
quickly added two more kids,love kids, love family.
Gotta say they never, ever,ever simplify anything is my
master advice there.
I don't make anything easier andsimpler, and so I'm excited to
(02:28):
have this conversation Today.
I very much fall into thatcategory of midlife right smack
in the middle, proudly Gen X,and trying to reconcile the
reality that my favorite songsare now being played at the
grocery store.
Christina Smith (02:44):
Classic.
They're on classic radio.
Now I heard it the other day.
I was like this is classicradio and it was like Billy Idol
and I was like classic.
Amy Stone (02:53):
Am I classic?
I'll go with that.
I'm classic.
We're now classic.
There we go Officially.
Christina Smith (02:58):
Yeah, yeah, thank you, amy and Hannah.
Welcome to the Inviting Chefpodcast.
Yeah, thank you so much forhaving me.
Yeah, tell us a little bitabout you and what it is that
you do.
Hannah Blackburn (03:10):
So my name is Hannah, I live in London and I
am a transformational somaticcoach, so that means I help
people regulate their nervoussystems and achieve goals that
they believe that they can'tachieve, and achieve goals that
they believe that they can'tachieve by shifting fears,
blocks, doubts, essentiallyanything that's held and stored
(03:33):
in our system.
So it could be trauma, it couldjust be old belief systems, it
could be ancestral, it could beyou know wherever we picked up
all these beliefs from?
And so, yeah, I help peopleshift the stuff that's in the
way, essentially helping peopleget out of their own way so that
they can really attract andcreate the life that they desire
, because I think there's a lotof people out there who do not
believe that they can have whatthey want, and I believe that
anyone can have exactly whatthey want.
(03:53):
There's just a method and ayeah the tools, I suppose, to
get there that are needed.
Christina Smith (04:00):
Yeah absolutely , and I love that, so Cause we
were even talking about thisbefore we started recording
about how, like, I get clientsthat come to me and go.
What's the point of working onrelationships, christina, if I
can't get the other person to goto therapy with me, or I can't
get the other person to do whatI think that they should be
doing Right?
And it's like you would besurprised how much one person
(04:24):
can impact a relationship,because if you're in this weird
like do loop of getting angryand in a bad space, or you have
the same argument over again, ifsomebody breaks that cycle, the
other person has to responddifferently, because you know,
keep go ahead, keep yelling, butI'm going to walk away.
(04:46):
Well, that person's not goingto keep yelling, right, we're
going to have to find a new wayto communicate if I'm going to
walk away, and every time you'reyelling and you yell a lot.
So I mean we can make a hugedifference.
I think what it comes down tofor me and I don't want to go
into this too deep because Iwant to talk about why
relationships change, butthey're hard.
I think we expect them to beeasy all the time and that we're
(05:09):
just going to show up and itshould be happily ever after.
Isn't that what happens?
You meet the Prince Charming,you marry them and things are
just smooth, kind of Amy, likeyou were saying in your intro,
like, of course, we're all nicepeople, we can get along.
Doesn't that make a family?
Amy Stone (05:27):
Well, right, that's where the movie ends, right, the
movie ends with Happily EverAfter, nobody gave us the book.
That's like, what does it taketo make that happen?
And one of the crazy thingsthat I think about a lot now,
looking back over severaldecades, is that surprise, right
, that surprise that it was like, well, I thought this was
(05:48):
supposed to be easy and Iactually thought that being a
child was the piece that maybetrained me to be a parent, which
doesn't turn out to be true.
In my experience.
They're two differentexperiences, right.
Being a kid trained me to be akid.
Being a parent is how I learnedto be a parent.
Being a step-parent is how Ilearned to be a step-parent, and
(06:08):
that has been a crazy, crazyrealization for me.
I've had, like I have these, Icall them the moments where you
look for an adult to your adult,where you find yourself in a
situation where somebody expectsyou to do something.
Like you know, fix the plumbing.
Like, deal with a cloggedtoilet.
You know a leak.
Like you know, fix the plumbinglike deal with a clogged toilet
.
You know a leak.
You know, continue to do thelaundry.
(06:32):
And you're just like how am Ithe person who's in charge of
this and you like look over yourshoulder like shouldn't there
be somebody else that I can?
Where is the adult to youradult to tell me how to do this?
Christina Smith (06:38):
Fortunately, that is your circus and those
are your monkeys.
Amy Stone (06:42):
It's the most painful realization.
In the middle of the night it'slike wow, my circus, my monkeys
.
Christina Smith (06:50):
Yeah, and it's lovely too, I'm sure it is no.
Of course, lots of beautifulmoments.
We're not taking that away, butthat's that's what we mean,
like even like, oh, you knowwhen, when we were young, we
were like oh well, I knowexactly how I'm going to parent
and I'm going to do it perfectly, and this is what my parents
are doing wrong, and I'm nevergoing to do any of those things
or say any of those things ormake my kid feel this way.
(07:12):
And it was like yeah, right.
Amy Stone (07:16):
Well, one of the.
I don't know if you experiencedthis, Christina or Hannah, but
one of the craziest things thatI have realized as an adult is
when I was a teenager, I thoughtI was delightful.
You guys, I thought I wasdelightful and then, being in
the situation where I'm livingwith other small people, I have
come to this stunning.
I watch them do things that Imyself did as a child and I
(07:38):
think to myself, huh, not at allfucking delightful.
I'm so sorry I just cursed onyour show, but it's like.
It's like I see them do it andI was like, oh, you know, I
don't think I was maybe asdelightful to live with as I
thought I was.
I was delightful to my friends,but I'm pretty sure that my
parents and my aunts and unclesand grandparents were like, wow,
we are looking forward to thisperson growing up a little bit.
Christina Smith (08:00):
Yeah, yeah, we call them the huff and puff ears
with my stepdaughter.
Huff and puff ears, yeah, thosewere challenging, you do?
Amy Stone (08:08):
you do have a lot of control of how you experience it
, right?
So you were saying, if you walkout of the room, you know it
makes it harder to people yellat you.
And one of the things I'velearned is the other part of it,
(08:31):
which is like sometimes youlearn not to walk into the room,
right?
It's like, oh, if this personis not willing to meet me where
I am, then the shift that I canmake is how much I'm willing to
put myself in the firing line.
You know and I think Hannah wastalking about that a little bit
before we got on the thing it'slike it changes how we want to
see our life, changes how otherpeople, how we allow other
(08:51):
people to interact with us yeah,exactly, and I obviously you
guys are talking about this likeon the behavioral level,
because that's like the obvioussign of things.
Hannah Blackburn (08:59):
And then there's the like energetic side
of things, like when we start tochange how we feel about our
own sense of self-worth, and Ithink that's really interesting
as well, like the way thatrelationships mirror back to us,
our sense of self.
Ultimately, like, the strongerwe feel in ourself, the more
able we are to set boundaries,and I think it's really
(09:20):
interesting that people, howpeople react to boundaries when
they're not so spoken, let's saythat, when they're not so overt
, when the boundaries are moreso, this is what I'm going to
tolerate and, just as you said,actually, amy, it's more like
I'm going to choose not to enterthe room.
That's kind of an energeticboundary.
That's kind of like I don'teven need to tell you, but I'm
(09:40):
just going to allow you to feelwhere I'm at with this and I
think that's really powerful aswell.
Right, that kind of, yeah,showing people how you want to
be treated.
I think it's super powerful,yeah.
Christina Smith (09:54):
Right.
I mean, when I think about it,like there are certain people
they don't have to tell you yourboundaries, you just kind of
behave around them.
You know what I mean?
We kind of respect that justbecause we can feel that.
And then there's people who wedo have to set the boundary with
, and it doesn't mean that there, that there's anything wrong
with that, it's.
(10:15):
It's really easy for me to belike hey, um, I think I just set
a boundary the other day withmy husband, but it was spoken.
It was like hey, when I'm in myworkspace and you come in,
you're like emoting stuff.
Could you just give me awarning?
Like I would love a warning.
If not, I might have to stopyou and take a breath or
(10:36):
something, because my brain ishere and that is really hard for
me to do that.
I'm not really a good switcher.
I have to like I need a momentand a breath, and so just having
those boundaries and myhusband's really good, we're
really good at hearing eachother and doing our best.
Right, we don't always succeedbut doing our best.
(10:57):
But boundaries are somethingthat we don't like to speak.
And even before that, how about?
Like?
One of the biggest tips I havefor people and it sounds so
ridiculously simple is askingfor what one is really important
.
And and I know this is kind offlipping over, but I think so
(11:19):
often we like miss so muchcommunication or we have to have
so much communication and youknow, miscommunication just
because we're not asking forwhat we want.
We go about it in differentways, right, amy?
Amy Stone (11:39):
Yeah, specialist, but establishing or reestablishing
the connection between my bodyexperience, my like somatic
experience of living, and youlearning to use that as cues to
figure out like, what do I want?
and what is important to me andalso you can maybe.
What do I not want?
(12:00):
Like, oh my gosh, this react,my body is reacting to this in a
physical sense, and what doesthat mean?
And trusting, creating thesafety and security, like the
skills to create for yourselfthe safety and security to be
able to speak up for that um andto lean into it, um and and.
And.
The other side of that, which is, you know, often more urgent,
(12:23):
is um is learning thattransition from child children
give that responsibility to theadults in their life.
It's the adult's responsibilityto create safety for a child.
Then you magically become anadult and if you don't figure it
out, you will still give thatauthority and the power to the
other people in your life andyou may not realize, but you
will give your boss and yourboyfriend and the homeless guy
(12:47):
on the corner.
You just automatically assumethat they are in charge of
creating safety for you, whichmakes it very hard to ask for
what you want, right.
And then trusting yourself andsaying, no, it's okay for me to
stand up and say I actuallydon't like it when you walk into
my office or hey, I don't wantto talk about politics with you
it upsets me.
Or, by the way, this meal thatyou make every Thursday night, I
(13:11):
think is disgusting.
You know that one probablydoesn't go over as well in a
family as the others but, youknow like that that process and
seeing putting it all together,it's, it's complex and the cues
are confusing.
Christina Smith (13:29):
Yeah, what I loved what you said about that
was I remember one time I walkedinto my husband's office while
I was talking to him and I wasjust like, hey, you don't spend
enough time with me.
And blah, blah, blah, blah,blah.
I was feeling really small inthat moment, I'm sure.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
I was feeling really small inthat moment, I'm sure, and
unimportant and all of theseother things, and I just like,
(13:49):
and he's like what is it thatyou want around this, though?
And I was like what do I want?
I want you to make me feelloved, Like.
And he's like yeah, and how canI do that?
And it's like right, right, sowhat is?
Amy Stone (14:01):
it that you want?
What am I?
Christina Smith (14:03):
asking for and it took me a while to be like
actually I want one night a weekwhere there's no phones, no
other appointments, it's just usand we don't have to do
anything fancy, but just that wehave dedicated time for each
other and it's just connectiontime.
Connection time that was aneasy ask.
(14:27):
I mean it wasn't easy at firstbecause my husband was a really
busy man.
So for him to tell people oncea week that he wasn't going to
have any calls, any meetings,nothing was a lot for him.
But at the same time, getting meto the point of like past that
emotional barrier, I guessthat's part of the energetic
right.
It's like the somatic healingis like trying to pull.
What is this underneath allthis motion?
(14:49):
What is it that I actually wantand need?
Because let me tell you, it wasa lot easier when I could just
be like here's exactly what Ineed, and then he could be like
yes or no and not just be like,oh, I'll try to make you happy.
I mean, that's just aridiculous request when you
don't know if that persondoesn't know what they want and
(15:10):
they can't ask for it and Ialways get from women, but they
should know.
Amy Stone (15:16):
I will admit I have not ever found that the people
in my family can read my mind.
I wish they could, but I havenever found that.
And the other thing to dovetailinto the theme of this podcast,
christina, is I think that thatchanges.
So what I wanted from mypartners when I was in my 20s
was completely different to whenwe had a bunch of small
(15:38):
children, and now that I'mlooking at empty nest it's
totally different.
Right, it was like when I wasin the chaos of small children.
I wanted, you know quiet time,you know at home and or maybe
girlfriend time, and you can getcaught in the ruts, right, like
you can do the same thing overand over again for years and
(15:58):
then you have to rethink it andbe like why does this no longer
make me happy?
Christina Smith (16:03):
I love that.
Yeah, it does.
It does change.
It doesn't mean that we didn'tknow.
It just means that whatever wehad before doesn't fit.
Hannah, how are you feelingabout this?
You're like on the younger sideof the midlife, so I'm curious
of your you know thoughts aboutthis and the energy no.
Hannah Blackburn (16:21):
Listen to you both.
I have so much to say on this.
Like I, I love the topic ofboundaries.
I find it so interesting andjust off the back of both of
what what you were saying aboutfeeling into the yes, feeling
into the no.
This is something that I'vebeen doing quite a lot with
myself recent next year as wellas clients.
It's that because I think we,when we think of boundaries, a
lot of the time we think aboutwhat don't we want, is that
(16:42):
there's that real sense of likeright, I'm going to tell you how
I feel and and this is what I'mnot accepting but sometimes we
forget to feel into what the yesis like, what we're a yes to,
and I think they're both asimportant as each other.
So I think, just feeling intoboth of that, like how is the
body reacting to the no, the yes, and also how is it reacting
(17:03):
when we say no, because a lot ofthe time we don't give
ourselves permission to say nobecause there's these fears
around well, if I say no, thenI'm gonna lose this person If I
say no, like all these kinds ofstories that we create about it.
So it's been really interestingfor me on my own personal
journey because I think for themost part of my life I'm 31
years old, I'd say for most ofmy 20s.
(17:25):
I know most of relationships inour 20s are a bit of a shit show
, but I just feel like my 20s, Inever was able to ask for what
I needed and for what I wanted.
But I never knew that that wasthe case.
You know, until doing that workI just understood that that's
how relationships went, that Ijust had to repress and I just
(17:45):
had to kind of accept ifsomething didn't feel right.
But I think back then I wasmaybe so numb and disassociated
I didn't even realize that thatwas the case.
So, having done this work, it'sreally interesting to notice
how my relationships havestarted to shift, as I've
started to find my yes, find myno.
I'm still not there yet, like Istill haven't quite met the
(18:07):
emotionally available man.
I still keep attracting thesemen who are not available to my
needs, and so it's just showingme okay, well, I've still got
work to do there.
I've still got work to dobecause maybe I'm not so certain
about my yes or my no as Ithought I was.
So it's just using theserelationships to show me and
show us like where we're at interms of our development.
Amy Stone (18:32):
I think that's really I think that's a really grown
up description of what you'regoing through Like.
So my experience in my 20s to30s was a little bit different.
In my 20s I was really able topretty much solve things by
myself.
I was like I got this, like Ididn't find myself saying yes or
no to things because it reallydidn't matter.
I was like, yeah, I can do this, like this is not a problem.
(18:57):
And then I, when I jumped intoa family, I was like, yeah, I
can do this, like this is not aproblem.
And then I, when I jumped intoa family, I was like, oh my gosh
, I cannot do all of this All ofa sudden.
It was very impossible and Ihad never practiced that like
getting you know, gettingsupport and asking for help and
all of those things, and it waslike a two by four to the head.
My 20s.
Christina Smith (19:15):
I just I just put a question up in my Facebook
group that was like what wouldyou have called your 20s if it
was a book?
And mine was like cringe the redflag collector, I definitely
was not listening to my body,the yes or a no.
I even got really physicallyill in my 30s because I had not
(19:35):
listened to my body, reallyphysically ill in my thirties
because I had not listened to mybody.
And in the meantime I'm gettinginto these relationships that I
had no business being inwhatsoever.
Um, and because I didn't listento my body and it really took
me even though I got sick in mythirties and started healing
that it really took me into myforties before I was able to
(19:56):
really feel that yes or no.
And now, like I set intentionalwords with my clients.
So if it doesn't feel like this, whether that's a relationship,
a situation or whatever, thenit's probably not for me or
aligned with me.
And I think that that's whereyou're going, hannah, right,
like starting to, like reallyget to what is the energy I want
(20:16):
to be aligned with.
Hannah Blackburn (20:18):
Yeah, and there's actually a point that
I've just realized that I kindof want to mention, because we
were talking before about thisidea of safety, like sourcing
safety.
And I think for some peoplelistening they might be like
well, what the hell does thateven mean?
And I think it's also a pointto note that what feels safe to
some people is just what'sfamiliar or to all of
us right, it's just what'sfamiliar.
(20:39):
So so for me I've alwaysattracted relationships that
have never served me, that havenever.
You know they've been nice inthe beginning but that they
haven't really nourished me andI've never really got what I
needed from it.
But they felt safe at the time.
And so I suppose the point islike, how can we, you know, if
we are attracting theserelationships, what in us is
(20:59):
creating that Like, what is thatfamiliarity that we're
attracting and sometimes likeaddicted to?
I suppose if you've got ananxious attachment style like me
, so I'm addicted to that kindof chase and I can now be so
aware of it, I probably willstill have that addiction until
it's cleared it.
I probably will still have thataddiction until it's it's
cleared.
(21:19):
And when I say addiction, it'smy, my nervous system is just
attracted to that type of person.
Um, but yeah, I just think it'san interesting point to make,
because it's like the safetykind of has to be cultivated.
If it's not there and I guessfor a lot of us it isn't is it
like we've all had piecesmissing?
Like both of you were sayingbefore, there's no such thing as
perfect parenting.
We're always going to misssomething.
There's going to be a littlebit of trauma somewhere for the
(21:41):
children, but we just can't helpit, can we like it's just life
so yeah yeah yeah, I thinkthat's a.
Amy Stone (21:47):
I mean, I think that that's like a whole master class
, like in, you know, picking outyour like, digging into your
origin story and figuring outwhat are the things that you
don't actually want to, what arethe things that feel familiar,
that we misidentify as thesafety we want as adults?
Right, because sometimes it issafety.
(22:10):
Right, we want to repeat thatfriendly, fun thing that we had
as a kid, and on other timesit's things that we don't, but
we don't realize it because wedidn't, we didn't identify the
discomfort or we weren't taughtor we weren't supported in it.
And there's levels of that,right, like there's like things
that are not really a big deal.
(22:31):
And then there's like honestabuse and people who are, you
know, stockholm syndrome, right,and so there's all kinds of
things in there.
And then, like, so there'sidentifying it, becoming aware
of the pattern and the awarenessthat, oh, you know what, even
though I really really like thischocolate ice cream, if I eat
(22:53):
the whole container I will feellike crap.
So it's like picking it up andthen going through and trying to
reestablish other things to getwhat we think we want.
And that the next phase, I think, hannah, is like when you
figure out what you think youwant, it feels the opposite of
safe.
It feels like you were jumpingoff a cliff or at the top of a
(23:15):
rollercoaster hill, like you'relike all right, so what I think
I want is this wonderfulrelationship with this person.
But then when it shows up infront, if it's something you've
never had before, it feels theopposite of secure.
It's like danger.
Danger, will Robinson, danger.
Christina Smith (23:29):
Yeah, I had no like, not no, I had limited
personal interpersonal skills.
When I met my husband, I thinkhe, like I knew that he was the
kind of man I wanted to be withmy this is my second husband,
but I knew the kind of man thatI wanted to be with.
But when I was with that it waslike, oh so he's just gonna
(23:52):
hold boundaries and I'm gonnahave to figure this out Like I'm
gonna have to do my own work.
I'm going to have to like, if Iwant to be with somebody I
think this tails off of whatHannah was saying is like our
energy will shift and then we'llattract different people.
And I think that that is sorelatable, especially in midlife
(24:12):
, because a lot of us, you know,shift friends.
I had a couple of friends whereI'm just not friends with them
in the last year, even though wewere like really really close
before that.
And I think, as we shift, wedon't need to feel bad about,
like Amy was saying, you know,not even going into the room
(24:34):
anymore, not picking up thephone or not texting all the
time, right, we don't reallyhave to feel bad about that.
That's just energy that is notno longer in alignment with what
it is that we need.
And I mean, I'm not saying thatwe can do this with every
relationship.
Obviously there could bedifferent boundaries.
I have boundaries with my mom.
(24:56):
I talk to her several times ayear and that's where our
relationship lives, becausethat's what feels good to both
of us.
If we wanted anything else, wewould ask for it, but that's
what feels safe for us in thatrelationship.
So I think that relationshipscan change and I know this is
true and I hope it's truebecause I want to build more
(25:18):
relationships and moreconnections.
And I don't know, has yourexperience been with like
friendships?
Amy Stone (25:28):
You know, I think that's a fascinating topic right
now because I am personally ina spot where my friend group is
probably in a place to changeLike.
So for the last 25 years, I'vebeen connected to various parent
school groups through my kids,right, and that is like a
constant fire hose ofopportunities to connect with
(25:48):
people who are parents of sameage children.
Right, I'm about to be an emptynester and you know, if you
like, Hannah has not livedthrough this yet, but you don't
always have actually a lot ofstuff in common with the other
parents in the school groups.
Like, your only connection isthat your kids are in the same
school.
But you know it's like now Ihave the opportunity to reinvent
(26:09):
and shift things, and I don'teven know what these people are
going to do, like I hope totravel and and do these fun
things, and you know like we can, it's going to shift.
It's going to totally shiftpeople.
Some people are going to docompletely different things and,
um and I actually am veryexcited about it Um, a lot of
people who are in the same spotof me are like feeling anxiety
(26:31):
and trepidation.
Um, because they really theyfeel safe and comfortable in the
parent bubble, the schoolparent bubble, which is good,
right, that's totally that'swhere they are.
I think that one of the classicexamples of that sensation so
Martha Beck describes this asthe empty elevator, when you're
transitioning and the peoplearound you are not, so like
(26:53):
you're in a full elevator, butthen it empties out because
people step out and then you'rein it by yourself and you've got
to figure out how to fill itback up, and so I think that's
kind of a fun visual, but it'ssomething that we always go
through.
One of the big places thatpeople go through this is if
they change habits fromsomething that was destructive
and then they need to changetheir circle to support their
(27:14):
healthy habits right.
The other one that people seeand Hannah might be seeing this
in her age group is when wepartner up, some people break
off and have families and theydon't socialize anymore with
people who don't have children,right, like we're as much.
It's that weird.
You know you go through thatage period where you're going to
50 weddings a year.
You know you're broke becauseall you have to do is buy
(27:36):
wedding presents.
And then some people havefamilies and kids and other
people don't, and they don't dothe same things.
Like your single friends callyou and they're like, hey, let's
go to the Bahamas for theweekend.
And you're like I have littlepeople, I am not available.
Christina Smith (27:51):
Yeah, so it changes when we have children.
Often then it also can changewhen we no longer have children
and that's where, like, womentend to struggle because they're
like how do I, now that I'm anempty nester, how do I meet new
friends?
And it's like you actually haveto go out, be social.
Amy Stone (28:09):
I know you have to people with the people.
You have to do the peopling tomeet the people.
Yes, you have to do thepeopling to meet the people.
Hannah Blackburn (28:18):
Yes, yeah, it's interesting what both of
you are saying actually, becauseI feel like I'm at that age
where some of my friends aremarried and some of them have
kids, but very few.
I feel very fortunate actuallythat a lot of my friends are
probably quite far off havingkids and I have quite a few
single friends, I would say,which is quite nice.
I feel like I'll be enteringthat period at some point, maybe
in the next few years.
(28:38):
But it's so interesting thatwe're having this conversation
because I was literally justthinking about this before the
call.
I didn't get panicky about it,but I had this moment of like,
oh god, like I can feel thatcertain friendships are starting
to change and certain peopleare like our relationships are
not the same, and there was justthis kind of like genuine fear
(28:59):
actually that came up of likeshit, like I might lose some of
my really close friends here,and I hope that to not be the
case, and I guess it would not.
You know, relationships willnaturally shift, but there was
like a genuine fear there oflike I can sense that things are
changing and it's that likefear of change, isn't it?
But also like not wanting tolose those friendships.
(29:21):
And I don't think I will have to.
But I suppose it's one of thosethings where some people will
naturally just leave from mylife and I'll attract other
people who are more on that samevibration.
So it's that kind of beingcoming into acceptance, of
letting go of what was.
I guess there's.
I'm in a weird transition.
I think I'm in a weirdtransition where I think I'm
(29:43):
having loads of breakthroughsand I can feel myself really
about to have a quantum leap andyou know when you can just feel
I don't know if either of youcan relate I feel like I'm on
the cusp of big changes andmaybe some big shifts and it's
kind of scary actually but theunknown right, the unknown is
always a little scary, I think.
Christina Smith (30:01):
Oh no, I think we uh lost amy to a storm, but
we'll keep talking see if shecan pop back.
I was just thinking, as, as, um, you both were talking, where's
my mouse?
Um, I was thinking about what'sreally yeah, she's back.
What I really loved about thatwas, uh, so we talk about these
(30:24):
friends that you have to leavebehind.
But what's been really lovelyfor me is as I've been on my
growth journey.
I was working really closelywith an organization called
woman within and I I developednew relationships, um, with
women who really inspire me,like I remember sitting on the
(30:44):
board going, wow, these womenare so cool and half of them are
my friends.
So I don't want to, I don'twant it to be like doom and
gloom for midlife.
I want us to remember thatthere's there are a lot of
really awesome relations.
There's a lot of people thatwill get on the elevator right,
we just have to, we have to findthem in the right places and we
(31:08):
want to, um, we want to, youknow, not just jump into safety,
but you grow a relationship.
Is what I've learned over, youknow, the last 10 or 15 years.
I didn't have really greatrelationships when I was young
cause we moved so often, butlike I've learned, you grow the
safety.
There's friends that I was onlylike acquaintances with for
(31:30):
like eight years.
Then all of a sudden we hungout more and I trusted them more
and we did more things togetherand it was like.
So I feel like, even thoughI've had to let go of some
relationships that hurt, I havestepped into a time that feel
really good, they feel inspiring, they feel really collaborative
(31:51):
and like supporting each otherand you know really pushing each
other, like supporting eachother and you know really
pushing each other.
I have great coaching friends.
I mean I just I feel really,really blessed and, with that
being said, a lot of that wasbecause I chose that I went and
had women's circles.
I went and was social.
(32:11):
When there wasn't what I wantedin an area that I moved to, I
created it so that I could meetmore women.
So I have incrediblerelationships.
Amy Stone (32:21):
And I think that you deserve a gold star for doing
the work to create what youwanted because that is a lot
easier to say than it is to doLike it really takes courage,
right?
You know it's like.
It's like all right, this iswhat I want.
(32:41):
And then you have that likemiddle school cafeteria moment
where you're like is anybodygoing to come?
Like, are people going to?
Like, am I going to be the onlyperson who comes to my circle?
You know it's, it's, I meanperson who comes to my circle.
You know it's, it's, I meanit's, it's, it's beautiful, it's
beautiful.
And I think that what I want tosort of give you credit for and
show you as an example of atransformation is that you are
(33:05):
the example of creating thecommunity that you wanted.
You are the example that it canwork, that if you that the risk
is worth the reward, that it'sscary at the beginning and it's
hard work, but that you, whenlistening to you talk about
these amazing relationships thatyou've created, is like I mean
(33:26):
awesome, awesome.
Christina Smith (33:29):
And it did take work.
I mean, I just want everybodyto know like it's not like I was
, like I hosted one event andsuddenly I had best friends Like
the the friends that I have arefrom all over the place and but
we, we also do the work of likehey, we have a date each one of
my friends because I'm sonomadic.
Uh, we have a date every monththat we're going to meet on that
(33:50):
night.
If we don't meet on that, Imean we can always renegotiate
it, but it's set on the calendarso that we are ensure that we
are connected every month and wehave great conversations.
Um, and so, yeah, it's reallyagain, no, no, easy happily ever
after.
You kind of have to create yourhappily ever after.
Hannah Blackburn (34:12):
Yeah, totally, I think.
I think, um, I've definitelystarted to create those kind of
friends.
I think coaching friends arelike the best kind of friends,
because you just get each otheron a different kind of level,
don't you?
Especially when they're goinginto this like deep,
transformational work?
I think it's for me it's likethat it's probably the age group
that I'm in as well.
(34:32):
It's that kind of when thingsstart to shift, like when people
start to get into seriousrelationships or when people
start to have children,especially like my best friends
and I'm the single one, so thatof course there's kind of those
thoughts.
You know that there's.
There's natural thoughts oflike things are starting to
change and I'm starting tochange.
So it's that kind of transitionperiod where I absolutely trust
(34:54):
life and I know I have the mostamazing future ahead of me.
But I just feel like it it is abit difficult at the age of 31,
actually to like be goingthrough this transition period
and having to let go of things.
It's kind of, yeah, just lettinggo of what you once knew and
just being comfortable in theunknown.
I think for me that's notalways been easy.
It's kind of it's a bitunsettling.
(35:16):
So I imagine in the next likefive years things will start to
settle, because I imagine I willmyself be in a serious
relationship.
That's what I see for myself.
But it's just one of thosethings, isn't it Like single
amongst loads of people inrelationships.
It's a funny one.
Amy Stone (35:35):
Well, it is.
That's why they make all therom-coms about it.
Like, in every rom-com, thereis the, you know, there are the
people who are not coupled up.
There is the friend who is the,you know the, the bestie who
plays the wing person who makesthe rom-com hilarious.
They're all you know like.
But you know it's not, it's noteasy.
It's like we don't live in amovie, right?
So, even though it would be funactually, that's one of the
(35:56):
things I always like when peopleare thinking about this,
sometimes I will be like I'mlike if your life was a movie,
but how do you want it to playout?
Like you know, how do you wantthis story to be retold of you
in your situation right now?
You know, and that's especiallyhelpful when I'm talking to
parents who are like, what Iwant to do is scream at my kids
and I'm like, okay, so if thiswas a movie and we were
replaying it, how do you wantthe story of you fighting with
(36:18):
your kids about Rice-A-Roni tobe played back?
Christina Smith (36:23):
Right, yeah, no , absolutely.
How do you want to have beenknown to show up, right?
What does that look like?
And yeah, so we're talkingabout family changes and I know
that there's so many 30 to 60,that's like your entire um ages
30 to 60 is like, and lettingthem go and doing other things,
(36:50):
and so there's so many changesthat happen that I find amazing.
Now, luckily, I only raised onekid full time, because I don't
know how I would have done witha whole Brady bunch of family
members.
That would have been a lot ofkids for me, really took a lot
(37:16):
of energy.
And what I love about I loveempty nesting and Hannah, you
may not have much to say aboutthis, but I know that Amy will I
have so much to say and how itchanges, not just your
relationship with you, know,your kids, cause you're no
longer that full-time mom we'restill moms, but we're not
full-time but how it changed myrelationship with my husband,
because we had all this time andthen, right when my kid
(37:39):
graduated, or the year that hewas graduating was was the
pandemic.
So then it was like it wasreally just us and we had been
the Southwest, so we were awayfrom both of our families, so it
really became a littleinteresting.
Let's say there was so manytransitions there at one time
(38:02):
and I guess what happened withus is I would love it when he
would go away for a weekend todo men's work or whatever.
I'm like you want to be awayfor a week to see your family.
Absolutely Like, leave me alone.
So there's a little bit morefreedom and we're not fighting
(38:23):
for time like we were.
Amy Stone (38:25):
That is I mean not that this is your experience,
but that is like, statisticallythat's the biggest.
That's where people are gettingdivorced now, like what do we
call it?
Silver grade divorce orsomething is the fastest growing
thing, which is basically womenand men who have done the job
of raising the kids, and thenthe kids launch and the parents
are like I never want to see youagain.
I'm moving across the country.
(38:46):
Goodbye.
Thank you so much, and not thatthat's what you know.
That's neither here nor therehow it is.
But I do think that that is oneof the most interesting
challenges, because if you'regoing to live to be a hundred
right, and your kids move outwhen you're 55, you know you're
looking at 45 years with thatsame person, you know.
(39:10):
So, um, I am right there withyou.
The other day this is a storyfrom this week I'm not an empty
nester yet, but I walked into myhouse and my husband had
spilled coffee on the floor,somehow walked through it and
hadn't noticed, and there was atrail I don't even know how
that's possible, I literallydon't understand this and there
was a path from the kitchen tohis office of coffee colored
(39:33):
feet and I was like whathappened here and he's like what
are you talking about?
I don't know.
And I was like, did you spillthe coffees?
Like I don't think.
So.
I was like, oh my God, and inthe moment I was like deeply
craving, like I was like I lookforward to a day where the only
messes that I will clean up arethe ones that I make.
(39:55):
You know like, and I don'tactually look forward to that,
like that, you know, it's likebless the mess and I'm happy for
my family, like it's beautiful.
But I was just like, seriously,how, like, how, why is this?
You know, how do you not know?
Christina Smith (40:06):
And I understand that because we just
we were living alone for fiveyears and now and now we moved
in with family because agingparents and whatnot and uh, just
like hannah's been saying, youknow nothing and and you also
like nothing like being in closerelationship with other people
(40:28):
and know where your energy isand what's going on and seeing
all of the stuff, seeing thatmirror part of us and being like
christina.
What's going on?
And seeing all of this stuff,seeing that mirror part of us
and being like Christina.
What's that judgment about?
Can we let that go?
And you know, with my husbandbeing in his childhood home,
that changes his energy as well.
You know like he's got a lotmore young boy energy in him
(40:53):
than he did before, for thebetter or worse depending on the
day.
Amy Stone (40:58):
So you guys are, you guys are in his childhood home.
That's gotta be superfascinating actually.
Christina Smith (41:03):
Yeah, about uh, two other three other full-time
people and three otherpart-time people that come and
go and we're close to his familyso they drop in whenever they
want.
So it's a lot different lifethan we had where, like you know
, we were so secluded.
(41:24):
We had some friends wherever wewere going, but it was really,
it was really just us and hewould go away and I'd have alone
time and I mean we would havefriends, visit and stuff.
But he like yeah, it was.
It's a much different setup now.
So, um, so, which is why I waslooking at relationship tips and
what would I offer people andthe one that came up that I just
(41:48):
texted my husband before thiswas we have to look at conflict
differently, that it's not youagainst me, it's us against the
problem, and I think that sooften when we're in an emotional
disagreement, we forget that.
We forget that we're actuallyon the same side.
(42:12):
It's not you that I'm arguingwith or fighting here.
We're trying to approach thisproblem.
We're trying to win over thischallenge that we're having.
That's what we're looking forand for me because probably
because the way I was raised,it's so easy for me to go into I
want to make this other personwrong instead of well, what is
(42:36):
the actual problem?
And let's get through theemotional stuff so that we can
see what is the actual problem,what do we each want out of it
and how can we best make thathappen, if it's possible, but I
think so often we can get.
I mean, you can see it in thepolitics in the United States
too.
It's just like if you don'tbelieve what I believe, you're
absolutely wrong, and it's likethat's why we don't solve
(42:58):
anything, because we'reconstantly fighting each other
instead of working with eachother.
How can we actually, let's youknow, focus on the problem, not
on bringing each other down orpoking or whatever?
Amy Stone (43:12):
And I just want to say that is one of the best
times to bring in a third personto help you through it, because
when you're in the bottle, it'svery hard to read the label
from inside the bottle, right?
So, like when you'reemotionally attached to the
problem, I mean you have a lotof skills, christina, you've got
a lot of talent, you've got alot of knowledge.
(43:33):
For you to work through thatwith your husband is, you know,
is a lot of work, christina,you've got a lot of talent,
you've got a lot of knowledge.
For you to work through thatwith your husband is a lot of
work for you.
For most people, they're livingthrough this feeling like there
is no other option and a thirdperson a coach, an advisor, a
counselor they're the people whocan rubber duck for you, like,
(43:54):
bounce back to you and be likeyou know, hey, this is what I'm
hearing, this is what you'redoing and try to redirect you to
being problem focused.
Right?
So it's like fighting over whowill take out the trash, right?
If you harp on it with yourpartner like that they're doing
it wrong and they need to do ityour way, you can have that
(44:14):
fight forever and the trash willnever get taken out.
You have to like actually stopand say okay, we actually need
to talk about how we're going toget the trash out of the house,
and I just want to offercompassion and grace for people
who don't see it, because Ithink that when you're in it,
you know it's really hard to seeit.
Yeah, I once had a countrysession with a person which was
(44:37):
an entire hour about potatoesLike a kid had eaten potatoes
that wasn't their share and itwas an entire hour of working on
it because she was so hurt bythe situation.
And when you think about it,it's like oh, it's just the
potatoes.
But one of the things she keptsaying to me she's like I'm so
happy that you're not sayingit's just the potatoes, and I
was like dude, there are ahundred times in my life in the
(44:58):
last year that I've been pissedoff about things like potatoes.
Like I get it that this is.
It hurts right.
Christina Smith (45:13):
It doesn't do me any good to tell you it meant
to her and how it must havebeen intended that way.
You know all that garbage and Ithink you were about to say
something.
Amy Stone (45:22):
If I was, I forgot Hannah weigh in.
Hannah Blackburn (45:36):
I'm deliberately single, but it's
why I'm kind of I'm I'm verymuch a stand for being single
and not settling forrelationships.
I suppose not that that's whatI'm getting from, from what
either of you are saying, but Iwas just thinking about it and I
was reflecting, because I'vedecided to dedicate the next six
months to kind of dating myselfand I think it's one of those
things where, even though, onthe one hand, I'm looking at all
of my friends in theserelationships and they're
getting married and having kids,like I don't really envy any of
(45:59):
that.
I'm kind of like that's cool,you've got your own little thing
going on.
But I just have these bigdreams of what I want my
relationship to look like andI'm more than happy to kind of
be over here doing my own workand eventually whoever it's
supposed to be will come by,kind of be over here doing my
own work and eventually whoeverit's supposed to be will come by
.
So it's just kind of all ofthis churning up just how like
relationships can be, so muchego and so much drama when the
(46:21):
people aren't doing their ownwork or the people don't know
how to do their own work, youknow, and I think it just
reminds me of how, like, whatthe kind of relationship is that
I want.
Right, and it's not to saythese sorts of things won't come
up, but it's like your abilityto heal together, I think is the
most important thing.
Right, like how you make up andhow you mend.
Amy Stone (46:43):
And I just want to say like, okay, so when you're a
kid, right, everybody you knowhas parents and so your world is
just everybody, that is,parents and kids.
But a lot of people like a lot,a lot, a lot of people have
very, very full, totallyenriching lives and they are not
a part of that.
And it's weird because it doesbecome this very tight circle of
(47:08):
react.
Kids are a huge amount of work,so you surround yourself with
other people who are goingthrough this monstrous job of
raising all these little peoplewho are not good at following
directions.
But I, about half of my friendgroup, are people who are
child-free by choice.
Some of them are married, someof them are not, and they the
number of times that I'm enviousof the freedom of my single
(47:31):
friends, my single child-freefriends, I mean a lot, a lot.
It's a great life.
I'd never want to be a personwho offers that up, that the
only path to happiness or theonly path to satisfaction and
joy is through that one singularrelationship or by filling up
(47:51):
your house with small versionsof yourself or by filling up
your house with small versionsof yourself it absolutely isn't.
Christina Smith (48:00):
And, hannah, bravo to you.
Yes, because I got married atlike 23 to what Dr Phil would
call a starter marriage.
It taught me a whole lot, butlet me tell you, the paperwork
wasn't worth it.
Amy Stone (48:13):
It's an expensive way to learn it.
Christina Smith (48:16):
It's an expensive lesson that way.
And after that marriage I waslike so set on who I wanted as a
partner and my friends werelike, oh, you're just a man
hater.
I'm like, I'm not a man hater.
So one night I went home and Iwrote down all the requirements
and I was like, if it ain't this, I want nothing to do with it,
(48:37):
Cause I'll do better on my own.
I'll be okay on my own.
This is exactly what I want.
If I can't get that, I'm notgetting it.
And like, years later it waslike we were moving in together,
me and my current husband, andI found the list and he checked
every single one.
And I found the list and hechecked every single one and I
was like, see, he wasn't beingpicky, I was just because it
wasn't like he's got to be 6'3with dark hair.
(48:59):
It was more like, you know, Iwant somebody who's doing their
work, I want somebody who'sgoing to take my son in like as
if it's his own child and notbecause I talked with Amy on her
podcast about my step parentingexperience and it was
challenging at best.
Um and so I knew exactly how Iwanted, what I wanted for my son
(49:22):
, what I wanted for me and yeah,and it all came true.
So take your time, manifest thething that you want.
It's not worth it in any otherway.
It's not a happily ever after.
It's going to be work.
If it's work before, it's goingto be work after.
Amy Stone (49:40):
But I love that you clarified how you made that list
, because I think we've probablyall known people who make the
list like they're going to thegrocery store, like you know
this height, this color hairworks at this company and it's
like, and that you know thosethings might shift right, those
(50:00):
things might shift and change,whereas, like, the more
character based stuff is key.
Christina Smith (50:08):
Yeah.
So, hannah, please take yourtime, choose the right one.
It all comes in your ownjourney.
And absolutely, amy, I meanwomen do not need to be married
or attached or have kids.
I mean they can do that in anycombination they want to do
these days, and so you know,allowing that to be.
Amy Stone (50:32):
But that's so easy to say, a lot harder to do because
the so what are the words weuse?
The socialized message that weget about our value as women is
still very much that.
You know, we are defined by theperson who chooses as a partner
.
We are defined by their socialstatus in the, in the community.
(50:53):
We are defined by how our kidsshow up and intellectually we
can know that that's nonsenseand it's really really important
, I think, forself-actualization and
self-growth to understand thatwe are our own individual people
.
But I give true weight andhonor and verity to the
(51:13):
challenge that is actuallyliving that life.
You know, like it's like.
You know just, you know it'sjust, it's really really hard to
walk that walk Cause that thatis.
It's like a fire hose ofshoulda, shoulda, shoulda that
has been forced on us for a longtime.
Hannah Blackburn (51:30):
Yeah, I think it's a journey defying.
That, isn't it?
Amy Stone (51:32):
I'm coming out of that.
Hannah Blackburn (51:36):
I think, yeah, I think it's a journey, defying
that, isn't it?
And coming out of that, yeah,yeah, all the norms, like I
think it, and I think it'sdefinitely changing.
I think it's just obviously asa as a worldwide thing it's
gonna be.
You know, we've got someprogress to make, but I suppose
it's an individual thing, isn'tit like?
Amy Stone (51:48):
we just change, we change ourselves on an
individual level and then itstarts to trickle outwards and I
I mean it's like right, sohumanity has been around for
however long humanity has beenaround.
I don't even know that I didn'tpay enough attention to history
class.
Like it took a while to getthese longstanding things.
The idea that it would like befixed between when I turned 12
(52:08):
and 150, it's probablyunrealistic.
You know it's, it's.
It's a little piece here and alittle piece there and tying it
into the social circlerelationships.
A piece of this is finding thecircle of people who have the
same worldview as you, right, solike, if you want to lead a
life as a feminist, independent,empowered woman and you find
(52:33):
yourself with a social circle oftrad wives, you're going to
feel a little bit out of syncwith that group.
You know, like that's, you knowthat's that's.
You know you gotta, you gottagotta exit stage left and find
your people.
No judgment right, no judgmentwhich one you want you know, but
yeah, yeah yeah, absolutely Allright.
Christina Smith (52:53):
So let's just wrap up maybe one piece of
wisdom or takeaway and howpeople can reach out to you.
So I guess I just want toreemphasize ask for what we want
.
I think it's one of the mostromantic things somebody could
do.
I know that we think it'sromantic when they just know
magically what it is that weneed.
(53:15):
And let me tell you, you cantake so much work out of the
relationship if both of you askfor what you want, because then
I don't have to guess, I canjust do that and you can just do
exactly what I have asked ifyou're available for that, and
we don't have to do the wholeguessing game.
So that's my wisdom.
Amy Stone (53:33):
So one piece of advice I think that I'm going to
use Hannah as the example,right, because I think that one
of the most powerful things wecan do is, um is take the time
to allow the noise to drop, toignore the noise and and get to
know ourselves.
Right, and she used the worddating herself, but it is
(53:59):
intentionally cutting off thethings that are influencing us,
that may be distractions, andcreating the space to listen to
ourselves so that we can makethe list that Christina is
talking about, so that we can dothe stuff.
It can be hard to knowourselves, and so that sounds
lonely and stuff, but it can behard to know ourselves, and so
that sounds lonely and stuff,but it's not.
It's the most exciting, amazingthing.
(54:20):
When it's like I want achocolate milkshake, I'm going
to go get a chocolate milkshakebecause I'm listening to myself.
It's a really, really powerfulthing to do and I think it can
be done.
So I'm Amy Stone, life Coach forStep Parents and Adults and
Blended Families.
The name of my company, youguys, is Amy Says so, because
I'm a little bossy and that'swhere I share all of the things
that I make and create forpeople and I have lots of free
(54:43):
stuff there.
You can go and get it and thatwill tap you in to let me tell
you all about the fun things I'mdoing.
Christina Smith (54:51):
Thank you.
Amy and Hannah, and all thelinks will be below for these
women so that you can connectwith them.
Hannah Blackburn (54:59):
Something that I've been reminding myself of
quite a lot when this is.
This could be for, like,personal goals, professional
goals.
It could be for attractingrelationships.
It could be for creatingsomething in a relationship, and
it's like who do I need tobecome to have the things that I
want to have?
Like, what, if I'm wanting toattract, say, it's a man who has
all of these differentqualities?
(55:20):
It's like, well, am I embodyingthese qualities myself?
And it's like, well, if I'm not, then how do I expect someone
to you know, to attract someoneof that same type, I suppose.
So I think it's always justlooking inwards If we're
dissatisfied with what's goingon outside in any part of our
life.
It's like, well, what is it inme that I'm dissatisfied with,
(55:41):
or what do I need to changeabout myself, my views?
You know my worth, whatever itis to actually have all of those
things.
So, yeah, it's a constantreminder for myself.
I've got it on like a littleboard I look at every day just
to kind of bring myself back tothat when I, when I lose myself
slightly.
Um, and yeah, the best way tofind me is I guess you'll have
the link to my website in your,in your notes.
(56:03):
But yeah just my website,wwwhannahblackburncom, and all
my details are on there.
Christina Smith (56:08):
Awesome.
Yeah, all of your informationwill be below, so go connect
with these beautiful women.
Thank you for being on today,thank,
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