October 17, 2024 • 53 mins
In this episode of the Inviting Shift podcast, your host Christina Smith is joined by the amazing Jenn Fisher, Erica Manville, and Joanna Klein for a lively chat about all things mental and emotional wellness in midlife. We’re diving into the juicy stuff—like reflecting on our life journeys, embracing our beautiful bodies just as they are, and soaking up the healing vibes of nature and travel. Oh, and don’t forget the power of community and the bravery it takes to welcome change. Each of these fabulous women shares their own personal stories, reminding us why self-care is a must, and why surrounding ourselves with a supportive tribe of women makes all the difference.
OUR GUESTS:
Jenn Fisher is a travel blogger who helps trauma survivors heal through solo travel, hiking, camping, nature, inner child work, and mindfulness. Determined to heal her own trauma, she applied everything she learned across multiple modalities and is now recovered and trigger-free. She has helped thousands of readers overcome fears of solo travel through topics on abandonment, grief, anxiety, sexual abuse, generational trauma, fear, control, and ancestral healing arts. She’s on a mission to help trauma survivors achieve emotional and mental freedom, and begin their own self-healing solo travel journeys.
Connect with Jenn: Website | Facebook | Instagram
Joanna Klein is an international speaker, leader, and coach with over 40 years of experience creating successful personal growth and self-empowerment programs that have transformed lives across the globe. In 2020, Joanna founded Journey to Legacy, focusing her expertise on guiding women to harness the power of their own life stories. Journey to Legacy offers live online courses and workshops that have helped hundreds of women uncover the profound wisdom within their experiences and find healing, self-acceptance, and a renewed appreciation for their lives. Joanna's mission is clear: to inspire and empower women to embrace their journeys and share their extraordinary wisdom and gifts with the world.
Erica Manville, M.Ed. is a dynamic blend of mom, teacher, and artist, channeling her energy into nurturing both her family and her students. She lives in East Longmeadow, Massachusetts, with her partner Bryan, their blended family—daughter Ella Blue, son Keith—and their dogs, Pickle and Barley. Erica is deeply committed to anti-racist education, weaving together English and Visual Arts to empower students to navigate the world with awareness. A natural leader, she has been an active member of the Massachusetts Teachers Association and was the founding chair of the North Adams Public Arts Commission.
Connect with Erica on Instagram here.
HOST:
Christina Smith is a life coach specializing in confidence and self-love in midlife so that women can finally truly like themselves and how they show up for themselves and their relationships.
CONNECT with Inviting Shift & Christina on Social: Instagram | Facebook
FREE GIFT: The Confidence Tool Kit is here to help you walk into the second half like a queen (because you are one already). Get it here.
Email me and tell me what you think: christina@christina-s
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome back to the Inviting Shift podcast.
I'm so excited to have you hereand our lovely guests Again.
It's another week where we havethese really beautiful women on
and they're all in that midlifekind of space and we're going
to talk about how we can keepour mental and emotional
wellness through.
(00:21):
We have women here that havedifferent ways of keeping their
mental and emotional wellness,and I am here for it because I
feel like every time I recordone of these, it's like
something that I'm like, oh, Ineed that right now.
And so here it is.
I scheduled it for myself,manifested it, and so, without
delay, I just want to have ourwomen introduce themselves.
(00:45):
So, jen, can you tell us alittle bit about you, all, of
what we?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
use to help each other.
My name is Jen Fisher.
I run a travel blog.
It's called Jen Fisher Books.
It helps women get started,mostly solo travel, but it
(01:15):
really starts way before solotravel.
It really starts with arelationship with themselves.
It enables you to spend timewith yourself.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Value that time and understand that that is the
healing.
So yeah, thanks again forhaving me.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Thanks, jen and Erica a returning panel been a
teacher for a very long time 21years and I teach right now.
I teach 10th grade English inMassachusetts at a high school
and for 17 years, before I wasan English teacher, I was an art
teacher, an art teacher and I'man artist and a mom and I
(02:10):
really care a lot about takingcare of my own mental and
physical health and I'm excitedto be here as well.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Thanks, erica and Joanna.
Last but not least, introduceyourself.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Yeah, thanks for having me here.
I'm Joanna Klein, I'm thefounder of Journey to Legacy and
we offer virtual, self-guidedand also live courses that help
empower women to be inspired andreally impacted by their own
(02:43):
life experiences, so to be ableto guide them through processes
where they can reflect on theirlife, do writing, do exploratory
exercises that can help themheal, that can help them see the
wisdom that can inform theirmoving forward in their life in
a way that is both withintention and with inspiration.
(03:08):
And the people that we serveare mostly women, midlife and
beyond, and the result of ourcourses are life review or we
have life review courses as wellas life story writing, so that
those who want to write forlegacy can have something that
they can share and pass on tofuture generations.
(03:29):
I love hiking, I love all kindsof self-care activities, I love
being inspired by other womenand finding ways to increase my
self-care by the things that Ihear that others are doing.
So it's great to be here,beautiful.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Thank you, joanna.
And so, as we're talking aboutmental and emotional wellness, I
?
Um, midlife wasn't a time thatanybody was like, hey, that's a
big deal.
It was always like, ah yeah,she just doesn't get her cycle
anymore.
You know what I mean?
Like it would just like one dayjust magically stopped and boom
, everything was fine.
(04:07):
And what I'm finding is likemidlife is actually one of the
biggest times of transition forme.
I mean not just like, um, Imove around a lot, not just like
location wise, but likementally I've.
I start thinking aboutdifferent things Like what do I
want to do for the rest of mylife?
What do I think about therelationships in my life?
(04:29):
And also we have this wholeperimenopausal menopausal thing
that like, at least for me, it'sbeen guiding me on how to take
care of my body.
That's probably the kindest wayI can say it, but it's been a
lot of hot flashes and emotionaldisruption.
Let's say it's like being anadolescent all over again and
(04:50):
feeling that discomfort in mybody where I just I spent an
hour itching my skin the otherday.
I didn't realize that was amenopausal thing.
Apparently it is and hotflashes and all of these things.
So taking care of both ourmental and our emotional
wellbeing is so importantbecause at least for me because
(05:11):
when I'm physicallyuncomfortable, my mental and my
emotional wellbeing go out thedoor too, because I'm
uncomfortable and I don't wantto be there and I feel like a
spoiled little child or anadolescent.
That's just like all over again.
So that's why, today, I wantedto bring to you these beautiful
women who have each have likedifferent ways and different
(05:32):
processes and things around howthey take care of themselves so
that they can be mentally andemotionally well.
And one of the things I justwanted to start with because I
did this last year, joanna hadinspired me to do my life review
and I did a really shortversion of it because I wanted
to just go in.
(05:54):
This is how I am with mypersonal growth work Go in, get
the gold, get the hell out.
And so it really inspired me todo this life review, which was
really impactful because Istarted to see the patterns in
my life and the ways that mychildhood or my adolescence had
(06:17):
impacted the way that I lived mylife and the wounds that I had,
and how they impact the waythat I live my life and how they
impact the choices I make everyday, which has a lot to do with
my mental and emotionalwellbeing, and how resistant,
why I'm so resistant to treatingmy mental and emotional being
(06:39):
well.
Right, I mean, I really learneda lot about myself.
So, joanna, tell us a littlebit about how writing has been
inspiring you and your clientsto really look at their own
well-being in different ways.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
Well, and that's so awesome that you set your own
system up and discovered that,because that's exactly what has
been my experience too, indiving into my stories.
Realizing I've given certainmeaning to the stories and
experiences of my life, at mymemories and my stories, with an
(07:29):
open mind and a willingness tochallenge the meaning that I've
given it, has opened me up tothe possibility of looking at it
a different way, and one thatis serving me rather than not,
because I'm one of those thathave looked back on my life with
a lot of regret.
I've had a successful career 40years of developing personal
(07:49):
growth programs in a variety ofinstitutions, and yet I had a
really hard time seeing myselfas successful.
I was always not enough.
It never met my own standards,and so it wasn't until I started
diving in and looking at mystories and challenging myself
(08:09):
that I was able to change thatnarrative.
So writing is a way I have foundof doing it and I've been
through therapy andtransformational weekends and
all of that stuff has been great.
You know self-help books, butfor me, the process of writing
is what gave me a toolbox ofsomething to lean into and to
(08:34):
use on an ongoing basis and toreally take a look at as a story
comes up, as a memory comes upand it may bring up something
that's uncomfortable.
Uh, then, to be able to go inand either explore it by writing
about it or just through avariety of like exercises that
(08:55):
we use in life review, then toto create a different narrative
and to see the gold and thewisdom and the lessons and the
blessings, and that's turnedthings, as I said, has been
transformative for me and I'veseen it be transformative for my
clients.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
I love that so much because that's what happened for
me.
I had a lot of shame about my20s, which I think you're not
living your 20s right If youdon't have a lot of shame about
them.
Um, but like I really feel likeI collected so many red flags
in my and I used to feel like itwas like a victim-y kind of way
(09:32):
.
But once I started seeing like,oh well, this guy is just a
different version of that guyand that guy is just a different
version of that guy, I was like, oh, I had a pattern, even
though I thought they were alldifferent, like it was the same
relationship, just repeated,until, you know, until my
divorce, when I was like, oh no,we're not doing that again.
(09:54):
And I was really conscious thenabout what I was choosing.
But I think without lookingback at that, I wouldn't have
realized like I was the red flagcollector.
They didn't do anything to me.
They showed up the way thatthey promised to show up and I
was actually that person.
And I could also relate that tofriendships Cause that's where
it's more important to me,because I have a husband now I'm
(10:14):
not dating Um but tofriendships, like I used to
attach myself to women thatreally didn't have any loyalty,
didn't have any like realauthenticity to them.
So it was like it was a lot ofgossip and a lot of backstabbing
and it was like, oh, I actuallychoose, chose these women.
(10:35):
And so for me that was like abig part of my mental and
emotional well-being was likewhat are it started making me
think like, what are therelationships that I have now
and which ones do I want todeepen, which ones might I want
to let go of or at least allowthem to shift right Is a big
piece for me.
So for me that was a really, areally big deal.
(10:59):
Anybody else have experience?
Yeah, go ahead, Joanna.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Because one thing there's two things that you're
saying that I think are reallyimportant and one is that taking
responsibility for your ownpart, and that's a very
empowering that gives us agencywhen you start seeing it that
way.
And it's really important to dothat in combination with
self-compassion, because sooften when we see that and we
can go to guilt or shame orwhatever, but we were making the
(11:27):
best decisions we could make atthat point in time, and so it's
it's important to, when we doit, to be doing it with that
lens.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
I love that.
Yeah, learn from the lessonsright, instead of it's not to
like, bash me or even haveregrets, like I needed those
lessons in order to have thebeautiful relationships that I
have with women today,especially, and even my husband.
You know that there's a reasonwhy this relationship worked out
better than all the other onesis because I I really changed
(11:56):
the whole pattern and that wasreally nice to see.
But I love that you talk about,you know, being compassionate
with yourself because we didn'tknow better.
I mean, it was really cringyand yet that's me, that's my
story, and I know that just theother day on Facebook, I was
asking about things that wemight have regrets on, and I
(12:16):
know Erica's got a few of them.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
I had to write.
I had to write.
What do you get out of lookingback and really looking at some
of the history of your life?
I think that I really resonatewith what Joanna is talking
about because I'm an artist andan art teacher that became an
English teacher, and seamlessly,because I feel like visuals and
(12:44):
writing are very similar.
So I think I do something verysimilar to what Joanna's talking
about.
I explore visuals in the sameway to review my life.
If you take AP art in highschool right now they do
something called a sustainedinvestigation.
Art in high school right now,they do something called a
(13:07):
sustained investigation andyou're supposed to pick a topic
and do art that's related tothat topic.
So you actually do a researchproject, basically what most
artists do, especially thosethat are famous.
They work all day long doing asustained investigation.
So it's like you know, I'vetaught sustained investigations
and I was thinking about mydaughter who went through early
(13:30):
puberty.
So she was only 10 and she wasmy size and people thought she
was me.
So she went through earlypuberty.
She skipped a grade, six toseven, so that she could be more
physically the same size,because she was stooping to be
the same size as the girls inher class.
(13:50):
She's my size, so I'm fivethree.
We're not tall, but she wasjust so much taller early.
So while she was going throughthis problem, I was learning how
to teach AP art and I waslearning how to teach children
to have a sustainedinvestigation, which I don't
(14:11):
know if you know a lot ofteenagers, but sustaining
anything for any long amount oftime, except for, maybe, video
games, is like not a thing.
So I was learning that and asan adult learner, I was learning
how to teach kids about doingthis kind of exploration of
their lives which, when youhaven't been alive that long,
(14:31):
like it's hard to haveperspective.
(14:57):
And I did my own sustainedinvestigation on my body
changing because of having aC-section with my daughter and
going, you know, from havinglike one body to then being
pregnant and having a differentbody, to then having a baby and
having a C-section.
And the way that my body decidedto react to the C-section is
that I have basically twostomachs right and that feeling
is hard to have when you likelook and you see what you, what
your body looks like after that.
So she was having a hard timewith her body because she was
(15:17):
going through her first likedealing with puberty.
So I decided to do aninvestigation of that visually.
So I did a series of like 20 to40 artworks that were all based
on my stomach, which I wasreally like basing it head on,
because it was like the thingwhen I looked in the mirror that
(15:38):
I didn't want to see and Idecided that if she was going to
go through something that wasreally hard for her, that I was
going to try to understand it bygoing through that hard thing
kind of simultaneously.
Um, and so I feel like that's Ithink that's the way that I
handle this entire subject isMaybe it's because I'm from New
(16:04):
Jersey and we like to just bedirect, which sometimes may be
criticized for being a littletoo direct, but I feel like the
way that I get through somechallenges is I just that we can
get those feelings out and andyou know, crying or talking, or
(16:32):
meditating, or hiking, or makingsomething, it's all the ings
that help you get through whatyou're getting through.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
I love that because, even if even those women who
haven't had C-sections orwhatever, as we get in the
midlife, I mean your body'schanging anyway.
Like, whether you tookperformance care of it or not,
your body is going to change inways that you never expected it
to.
I know mine has, and it was achallenge when I realized like,
(17:05):
whew, this is what my body.
I didn't have a really a tallmirror for a long time and then
all of a sudden, one day I did,or I think I was like in a hotel
room and I was like, justbecause it was so shocking to me
.
But and I did have to do a lotof work, I've done a lot of
journaling about it, I've takena lot of pictures of myself, not
(17:26):
for social media, but just so Ican review it.
You know, almost like an artist, kind of like that like, let me
look at it, let me accept thispart of me, because this is who
I am now.
And if I don't accept that, Idon't like to be that person
who's, like, always trying tohide it or, you know, like or
try to.
There's women who try to dresscertain ways to hide their
(17:48):
stomach or their butt orwhatever, and I'm just like it
is what it is.
This is me, it's okay.
It doesn't mean that I can'tchange it, you know.
It doesn't mean that I can'twork on it, I can't do things
about it, but there is like areal mental and emotional
wellness about being acceptingof.
(18:08):
This is what aging looks like,and sometimes it's curvier than
it used to be, or there's thingsthat didn't used to be there
that are there now, or viceversa, or vice versa, not there
anymore, um, and that it's beenreally vice versa not there
(18:29):
anymore, um, and that it's beenreally, really lovely for me, Um
, and I know that, for me, oneof the best ways I can take care
of my mental and emotionalwellbeing even though a lot of
people, like, associate it withphysical wellbeing is like going
out in nature and hiking, or,um, you know, just actually
sitting sometimes and breathingin nature is so much different
(18:50):
than sitting and breathing in my, in my house, um, and so I know
that, jen, she encourages womento go traveling, to hike, to
see new things, um, and I'm surethat that's how, you know, lots
of women help their mental andemotional well-being.
What?
What do you know, jen, aboutlike traveling, and how that
(19:13):
helps us internally as we getolder.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I know that being able to be self-sufficient and
plan what you want to do andwhat your needs are and you know
your itinerary, every detail itflies in the face of
codependency.
I do know that for a fact.
But I was enjoying listening toeverybody's process.
(19:38):
I was enjoying how you find thepath that works for you.
You can still get to the otherside, you know, um, and I was
listening for the similarities.
You know I'm I'm an artist onlyin that I used art to heal a
lot of my trauma and didn't goout seeking or searching it, but
(20:02):
yet it found me.
You know, um, and of and, ofcourse, just enjoying listening
to and being reminded ofself-compassion and really was
marveling at.
You know, christina, yourability to just take a step back
and evaluate your lifeobjectively.
(20:23):
Like that I could not.
Things had to get reallydrastic, black and white for me
to be able to see some of thethings that you were describing
like patterns, um, like you know, very, very, uh, black and
white, um, and dramatic, um, butI did, you know, and here I am.
(20:46):
You know, here I sit a veryhealthy woman, um, even though
it was a.
It was pretty, you know,traumatizing getting there, um,
but uh, yeah, I.
I think that solo travelingteaches you how to be your own
best friend and if you don't,you know if you don't have a
(21:06):
great relationship with yourself, you will.
After you start taking a couplesolo trips, I know it's hard to
really identify what is a goodor a bad relationship.
It's ingrained in what we'vealways thought.
So how do you know if you'renot necessarily enjoying your
(21:28):
relationship with yourself?
You know, and that's again thatpart of that self-evaluation
I've learned a great deal ofwriting for other women about
myself.
I think that when we try toteach others wellness mental,
emotional, physical wellness weare always helping ourselves.
You know, as soon as you likeum, joanna said like taking that
(21:52):
personal responsibility andthen shouldering it for, uh, to
be a leader, it's just like, allof a sudden, you know, you just
like to your full height, whichis your.
Your light is shining bright.
You know, um, because that'swhat we need.
We need somebody to say like,hey, I'm not afraid to let my
light shine.
You know, that becomes anattraction, that becomes a light
(22:18):
, a beacon for others.
But yeah, you know, I find theparts about our body image very
interesting.
I definitely have suffered fromanorexia a lot of my life, in
teenage years and adulthood, andyou know all of that comes back
full circle to love myself.
(22:39):
You know, even with all of myself-abandonment, you know like
that has been the most healing,you know, is to say like I'm not
going to abandon you.
You know like that has been themost healing, you know, is to
say like I I'm not going toabandon you.
You know, put my hand on myheart, I'm not going to abandon
you, no matter what happens onthe outside.
So, um, yeah, and the travelingI do find that sometimes it's
(23:03):
like, oh, I don't have the moneyto travel, you know.
And and I laugh because I'mlike, well, hiking is free,
camping is free.
Not that everybody wants tohike and camp, but there are
ways to find that little getawaythat is your joy, whatever it
is.
Sitting in nature I waslistening when you said just
(23:23):
sitting in nature is differentthan sitting in your house.
I walked down to the beach onmy lunch break and was like, oh,
my god, that is so true.
Like when I take a deep breathlooking at the ocean, it really
is different than if I'm in myliving room or my job, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
So, yeah, it's just a lot of really valuable reminder
yeah, I think so often weforget that going out in nature
isn't just about beingphysically well, but it's like
whew, it helps me at least getout of my monkey mind and into
my body again, which is a hugepiece for me these days.
(24:01):
And, erica, I saw your headbobbing.
I know you got something hereto say.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
I think that when we were talking about body image
and then Jen was talking aboutshining your light, I really
feel like we are most attractiveto ourselves and others when we
are accepting of ourselves andwe're allowing our gifts to
blossom in the world and that weare doing the things that we
(24:31):
want to do with our lives,independently of anyone else.
That other people don't give ushappiness.
It really is from ourselves.
Like that you get the real, youknow glow about you.
I mean I get that a lot.
Like I get told like how do youdo all these things?
How are you?
You know glow about you?
I mean I get that a lot.
Like, um, I get told like howdo you do all these things?
How are you?
You know, I wake up, I work outevery day, I go to work, I walk
(24:54):
my dog, like there's all thesethings that I do as a pattern
for me.
Um, and you know people like,well, I could never.
I get this a lot.
I could never do that, you know.
And I'm like, well, you knowwhat?
Actually, it's not about what Iwant to do.
Like you don't have to takewhat I do and do it.
(25:17):
Figure out what you want to doand do it.
There's like all kinds ofthings you can do for yourself
when you wake up, to notimmediately just like roll out
of bed and go to work right, youcould.
There's so many things tochoose from that you could do.
That people find really givesthem what they need, you know.
So, like Christina's alreadyheard me talk about this but
(25:38):
like I did 75 hard and I did it.
Um, it's.
It's this workout thing whereyou work out twice a day and you
you're on a diet.
You work out twice a day andyou're on a diet.
It's very strict.
For 75 days I worked out twicea day and just my personality
and the way I was brought up, itwas super easy for me to do
this and people fail at it andif you fail you have to go back
(25:59):
to day one.
And I just did 75 days straightand did it.
And we're talking big, big beefyguys go on radio shows and talk
about how hard this is to doand I'm just like I did it and I
think it's because that's who Iam as a person.
It's just that I have adiscipline.
(26:20):
That is important to me andthat doesn't mean that my
discipline needs to be what youdo.
You know you could wake up andmeditate or just like I don't
know color on coloring books orsomething, just as long as you
find that thing.
That is what gives you thehappiness, is what's going to
make you feel good.
And when you feel good likereally feel good and you're
(26:42):
really happy, that's when you'regoing to shine.
You're going to glow to otherpeople.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
I love that so much Cause I was just on a call the
other day with a small group.
There was two women and they'relike their problems were like
the opposite.
One keeps their day sostructured, so busy, that they
don't.
It's like it's their way ofnumbing out the world, is like,
hey, this is my regimented kindof life.
And the other one is sospontaneous, so like in the
(27:09):
moment, that she often loses hermental and emotional wellbeing
because she's like constantlygoing and like I don't want to
say spastic, but like switchingthings all the time, and so she
doesn't really get to processanything.
But both of them are like doingthe same thing in one way or
another.
And I guess my point is is thatI was never a routine kind of
(27:32):
person.
My husband's a routine person.
You tell him that you knowwalking 1.2, 1.25 miles every
day is exactly perfect.
He will go do it every day, hedoesn't need to be questioned.
He will like he will go do itevery day, he doesn't need to be
questioned.
He will like he has a whole twoand a half hour self-care thing
in the morning before he goesinto his desk to work, and it's
(27:53):
just like I could never do that.
However, my life's been a littlebit chaotic is a word in the
last few months, and so for meit's like I then needed to add
routine.
And because there is a piece ofroutine for me that helps me
(28:14):
feel more stable, that helps mefeel more emotionally grounded,
so like before I turn on mycomputer, I read, I write in my
journal, I set my intentions forthe day, right, all these
things that Erica has heard mesay to my clients time and time
again.
But you know, I actually had tofollow the.
I'm like okay, christina ischaotic, let's follow my own
(28:38):
advice.
What would I do?
And those are the things thatwork for me.
Some people they hate journaling, but they'll paint in the
morning or do something creativeor even make themselves a
beautiful breakfast if that'swhat makes them feel good, right
.
So I love that you were sayinglike each thing is different for
(28:58):
everybody, because I would.
The 75 hard is not for me, justlike I have a friend nearby
where I live that she's atriathlete, so it's like her
morning routine is definitelynot going to be the morning
routine I have, because thatwouldn't feel good and it
wouldn't be mentally oremotionally kind to myself.
(29:20):
So we all have to decide what,what, how much routine do we
need in a day around this mentaland emotional wellbeing?
And for me it's like I needminimal until I need some, and
then it needs to be realstructured, and I'm not sure,
joanna, if you have any kind ofroutine or non-routine that you
(29:40):
do.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
And let's see, I have both routine and non-routine.
But before that I just wantedto come back to something that
Erica kind of alluded to withoutsaying it specifically, but I
know that so many women,including myself, have this
challenge.
It's that comparison.
The friend Erica you weretalking about is saying, well, I
(30:01):
couldn't do that.
So that sets us.
As soon as we start doing thatto ourselves, so that sets us as
soon as we start doing that toourselves, then we're giving
ourselves that negativeself-talk.
That, rather than diving in andasking ourselves what does work
, just like you were saying,with you and your husband
Christina, he does one thing,you know, just wanting to
(30:25):
presence that, because I thinkthat so much gets in our way
when we start hearing aboutother people's successes with
what works or what doesn't workand I am a workaholic really,
with the life story, writing andseeing the life review and
(30:47):
looking at my patterns is that Ifound my worth by what I do,
and so I've had to really, withintention, set things to make,
schedule things so that I willtake myself away from work, and
one of the things that's workedgreat for me is to schedule
(31:09):
hikes with my girlfriend so thatI have a girlfriend for Monday,
I have a girlfriend for Tuesday, I have a girlfriend for Friday
and we meet and then it's acombination of therapy because
we're talking the whole time andthen getting out of nature and
getting the physical.
So that's been really good and II've noticed, you know just,
(31:32):
the older I've gotten and andthrough menopause and on, you
know how I've responded toalcohol, for example, and how
that's.
You know that that shift hasshifted for me over the years
and making time, that's quiettime and music and just taking
those breaks.
So yeah, I do it more, otherthan the structured with my
(31:54):
girlfriends.
It's more me having to catchmyself in the act of self-care.
And then, clearly, the writinghas been very healing for me.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
I think a lot of women are afraid, and maybe Jen
can talk about this.
I think a lot of women areafraid, and maybe Jen can talk
about this.
I think a lot of women areafraid of exploring what it is
that would make them happy, andI think there's a lot of
barriers to why people have andwomen have hard, a hard time
figuring out what it is thatwould make them happy and would
(32:27):
fulfill them.
And I'm wondering if, becausewhen I travel solo, people are
like, wow, you did that yourself.
Like it's like this, like noone went with you and you went
on a mountain and and like noone else was there and I ran
(32:50):
into a bear and that was theonly other person I saw was this
bear.
So I'm wondering if, likebecause Joanna, what Joanna was
saying sparked me to think abouthow comparing is a hard thing
to do for yourself, but thenfiguring out who you really are
can be really scary.
And going on those solo tripsI'm sure is exactly what Jen was
(33:12):
talking about.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
You know the easiest way, the easiest analogy is that
I learned to become my own bestfriend, deeper you know.
Longer story is that I didn'tknow I hated myself until I
became my own best friend,deeper you know.
Longer story is that I didn'tknow I hated myself until I
became my own best friend youknow, and so, yeah, there's a
(33:34):
lot to unpack there.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
And I think it's both and right, like I think in
midlife I've learned to get abetter relationship with myself,
but it also reminded and italso reminded me that it's
really important to have womenin a community, and I know I
know that all of us know this,because I know that we all have
(33:59):
really great relationships withwomen and we love to be in
community with other women,which was something that I
didn't realize until I went to awoman within weekend that I was
really scared of other women,that I didn't trust them.
I would have rather been in aroom with 60 men than 60 women
because it really frightened me.
(34:20):
Um, and I know that in anotherpodcast episode Joanna talks
about this, it was the beginningof season two about the wounds
of female relationship, and Idon't want to go too deep into
that, but go to season two,episode two, if you want to
learn more, because it's reallyinteresting.
But I do want to go into howmidlife's a time where women may
(34:42):
have been working, may havebeen full-time moms, may have
been doing all of these things,and now that we don't have PTA
meetings to go to or soccergames, it can be hard to meet
other women and become friends.
Tell you today I wouldn't be asmentally and emotionally well
(35:03):
today if I did not have all thecircles of women that I sit with
, that I can commute, communewith, that I look up to and they
actually, you know, are inconnection with me because they
see something in me too and,like that stuff means a lot to
me.
So, and I know, jen, you lovecommunities, that women, so tell
(35:24):
us a little bit about you.
Know what community does foryour mental and emotional
wellbeing.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Yeah, I, um, was really appreciating the reminder
of how, at our age, you know,important female relationships
are, and I remember how I alsofelt that way about women.
And, you know, I haven'tthought about it in a long time
and I was thinking, like youknow, comparing it, and I
(35:51):
realized for me with that isunderstanding, that what I was
projecting out was my dislike ofmyself.
And the only way I know that isbecause, when I listened to
what you were explaining, it wasso obvious to me that I love
women because I do love myself,and it's not in any way
(36:12):
narcissistic or ego, it's joy,it's, you know, belonging, it's
a feeling of, you know,excitement, even.
And, yeah, I travel solo allthe time and sometimes I'll go
(36:38):
on a trip and I won't hear thosewords like, oh, you're by
yourself, you know.
And sometimes I'll go on a tripand I'll hear it the entire
trip.
It's funny how that works, um,because I'm the same person
traveling by myself, you know,um, and when I hear it when I it
used to, really, you know catchme off guard and like, put a
(36:58):
little, like spring in my step,but by taking on a role to one
is other women.
All you need to tell me is oneor two times that.
Like, why are you inspiring?
I do.
I'm like, well, hey, let's go.
You know, if that's the case,that me as you know, I'm a
teacher by day like let let meyou know um use my gifts and my
(37:23):
talents and my skills and knowum use my gifts and my talents
and my skills, and you know wecan go forward together, you
know.
So now, when I hear like youinspire me, I'm like okay, how
can we work with this and moveforward as a collective?
Speaker 4 (37:38):
you know, Um.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
So it's really amazing to be able to, um, use
your light to guide others.
You know, to go back on thatanalogy, because anybody can
really do it, because I didn'thave a passport until I was 40
and I couldn't even drive, youknow, two hours from my house.
You know it was an evolution.
It took time, but one step at atime.
(38:01):
You know if I can do it,anybody can do it.
Mm-hmm, if you have the desire.
You know if I can do it,anybody can do it If you have
the desire.
You know it's just breaking itdown into a process or, you know
, like a routine.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
You know however, it makes sense to you.
You know, if you want to do it,you can do it.
There's something aboutchallenging ourselves that I
think is so good for ourwellbeing that I know that
people, especially like inmidlife, we can get into this
like cozy comfort zone, and thenwe're like, yeah, I'd like to
try that, but you know, seemsrisky.
(38:32):
I could just, you know, sit onthe couch and eat my ho-hos and
watch a movie or something,instead of going to do that
scary thing.
And yet there's like somethingthat we need in that right.
The discomfort and my clientshear this all the time is that
discomfort is the price ofgrowth.
Discomfort is good.
(38:54):
It means we're growing and wewant to continue to grow.
I mean, if we're not continuingto grow, then what are we?
I mean, I'm not quite 50.
I'm what?
Am I going to spend the next 30, 40 years just in stasis, like
just doing the same thing I'mdoing today?
I hope not, because it seemslike I have a whole nother life
that I could be living Um and soto just kind of pitch it in and
(39:16):
stay in that comfort zonerather than I mean you travel a
few times by yourself, or atleast my experience was I
traveled a few times by myselfand I was like I actually like
this.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
I like the company.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
I don't have to like worry about what anybody else
wants to do.
I can just go do whatever Iwant to do.
I can have the food that I want.
I can reschedule a day.
However, I want nobody's goingto care that I'm canceling plans
or making it different and I Istill get the questions.
You went to the beaches byyourself.
Yeah, the whole time nobody waswith you.
(39:53):
Yeah, it was lovely.
I could read a book and notworry about entertaining anyone.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
Like it was so lovely yeah, if I can hop in.
Uh, christina, because I youknow, from my experience and the
women that I've worked with, itseems like when we get to this
place of like 50s, 60s, there'sthis you know, we've been on, we
we've been driven our wholelife in so many ways, kind of on
(40:24):
autopilot, you know, takingcare of building a career,
raising a family, doing allthese things towards a life that
we thought we were supposed tohave.
And at some point we lookaround and go, hmm, life isn't
what I thought it would be.
And for many of us maybe notall, but for many, and there's
(40:44):
some that can be discouraging wecan look at that and go get
discouraged, and sometimes wejust need that space and just
give ourselves.
That time we become the emptynesters or the career slows down
or even towards retirement, andthere's a need for some kind of
space just to be.
And there's a need for somekind of space just to be.
But my experience has been thatthen women are like, okay, I
(41:10):
want something, I want back towhat?
How do we take care ofourselves, how do we fall in
love with ourselves?
And for many of us it's for thefirst time, I mean, it's like
(41:33):
you're not alone, jen.
I'm right there with you withhaving it.
I mean, I became anentrepreneur at the age of 65.
I'd always wanted to be anentrepreneur, but I never
believed I had the capability.
So it took me that long tofinally say I get to step in.
What the hell am I waiting for?
(41:53):
You know, I want to do this.
Go for it, instead of lookinglike you know where's the gold
watch, I'm going to retire.
So it's so much, I think,recognizing.
Recognizing that there it is atransition and it is a process
and we do sometimes need to justtake that break and reset, but
that once we then start divingin and doing the healing and
(42:15):
whether it's art or travel orwriting or, you know, groups- or
whatever.
Then, how do we get ourselves to, you know, to the new source of
inspiration?
Speaker 3 (42:26):
Do you feel like the key was that one day you decided
to be one an entrepreneur, andthen you were?
Speaker 4 (42:33):
It was that I tell people that Bingo, erica.
It was just that, it was like,why not?
Speaker 3 (42:42):
That's what I tell people too.
I'm like it's so easy, you, butit's hard.
But you just say, that's what Iam now, and then you are well,
but I did have.
Speaker 4 (42:53):
I had to also do something that I I've always
been the lone ranger, you know.
I've always been like I have todo it myself, and it was a
friend confronted me.
She's like you can do this, butyou're going to need a coach,
you're going to need somesupport.
And I have to finallyacknowledge that I couldn't do
it alone, that I needed theguidance and the structure and
and and.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
So that in and of itself was huge for me to
acknowledge that and it made allthe difference what I love
about that is I always say, likethe first half of our life is
like us doing what we thinkwe're supposed to do or we
should do, and then the secondhalf is when we get to choose to
do what we actually want to do.
But we have to, like Joanna andeverybody here has said, we
(43:34):
have to have our own courage inorder to step into that and go.
Well, let me try it.
And I loved what Joanna saidabout taking that break.
Like, take that break, restmamas.
You've been raising kids for 20years, plus some of you.
Um, take that rest, figure itout, let your body come back to
normal, right, and your mentaland your mental and emotional
(43:56):
health come back to normal or toeven better, and then decide
and it's such a weird thingbecause when we're little kids,
like, we don't think about that.
We think about the marriage andthe blah and the blah and the
blah, but most of us havechecked those boxes by like 40
or 45.
And then we're like, oh, Ididn't know that I was going to
have a whole, nother decades tolive, like I thought somehow I
(44:19):
was going to be happy just tosit on the rocking chair and
wait.
You know, I don't know what Ithought I was going to do, like
I was just going to sit thereand homeostasis until like okay,
now it's time to die.
But we don't make plans forthat, which I think is really
actually quite brilliant,because we don't know.
I mean, if you would tell, askme when I was little what I
(44:40):
would be doing at 60 or 70, Imean, I'm sure it's nothing.
At 47, I'm not doing anything Ithought I would be doing.
So I think it's really lovelyto have that break and give
ourselves that whole newperspective of what is it I
actually want to do.
Did I want to be an artist whenI was young and everybody told
(45:01):
me that wouldn't make money, soyou can't do that.
Now I can go back to art.
Did I want to go be a forestranger?
I think it would be a forestranger even at my age.
Um, so whatever the thing is,we can step into that.
I know that we can have thisconversation all day, but what I
want to close with is each ofyou to offer one piece of wisdom
, and then you're welcome toshare anything about your
(45:23):
business or whatever's going onor how to connect with you, and
just know that I'll have all ofyour links in the show notes
below, so you don't need tospell them all out.
That should make it really easyfor people to clickety, click
and get connected to you.
So I think, um, I, I think I'llstart with one piece of wisdom
(45:44):
and, um, I think what justhaving courage right, having
courage to step out of thatcomfort zone, I think is so
essential when you're ready,when you're ready.
But I think that when we thinkof mental and emotional wellness
, we can think of therapy andall those beautiful things, and
sometimes, um, sometimes, it'sjust having courage to take the
(46:08):
first step of whatever it isthat we want to dream of.
And with that, jen, could you,uh, offer us a piece of wisdom
and tell us how we can connectwith you?
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Okay.
So, um, follow your heartbecause you're worth it.
And then, when you think aboutthose words like you definitely
can't get it wrong, because yourheart is yours and as soon as
you follow it, you'll know thatyou're worth it.
You know because in that actyou'll be making that a true
(46:40):
statement.
Yeah, and I'm atjennfisherbookscom and you know
my travel blog has all myresources for overcoming trauma,
leading the solo travel,traveling with your inner child.
Freebie quiz If you want to seewhere you are with your
readiness, how close you may beNice, but yeah, thank you for
(47:03):
having me Traveling with yourinner child.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
That sounds delicious and scary at the same time.
Thanks, jen.
Thanks so much for being on andhaving this conversation.
Speaker 3 (47:16):
Erica, my bit of wisdom is you get to decide what
your identity is.
Get to decide what youridentity is.
You are the one that mattersthe most to you and that you may
have other people telling youwho you are, or you might have
had a life where you feel likeyou didn't get to decide, but
(47:39):
you can make that choice now,like know, if that's what you
want.
You can find me at Missunderscore Manville on Instagram
and see my artwork and see whatwe're doing with my students.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
Thanks, Erica Joanna.
Speaker 4 (47:58):
Yeah, and what comes up for me is this notion of
pause, that maybe we can't stopeverything that's going on in
our life, but we can set anintention of setting time, just
quiet time, to connect andreflect that our life is our
(48:22):
best teacher, in my opinion.
And so taking that time to dosome connecting with who we are
and looking back with compassionand love and curiosity, but
just taking that time, makingthat time for ourselves and you
can find me at Journey to Legacy.
Find me at Journey to Legacyand I have a 12-week self-guided
(48:46):
life story writing course forthose who do like the writing
process.
It's very much a personaljourney.
It's guiding you on thatprocess of exploration of your
life and you get to write yourstories.
And if that's something thatyou ultimately want to share
with loved ones eventually, Idon't encourage doing it right
(49:10):
off initially, but to do thatexploration through writing.
And then, if writing is notnecessarily your thing but you
still want to lean into yourlife experiences from the wisdom
that it has to share, then mylife review course is a 12-week
live course online and there'scoaching.
(49:32):
We meet as a group and so it'sfor women, midlife women so if
you love being in that capacity.
We've got that one too, so youcan check it out at
journeytolegacycom.
Speaker 1 (49:44):
Nice, and I do have a client that's been through it
and thinks it's excellent.
So I mean it's just such a goodprocess to go through.
I think it's perfect at midlifeto go through this, that you
can really know who you are, asto, like what Jen was saying as
well really start to loveyourself and then you know, then
we can, even when we loveourselves, we can make better
(50:06):
connections with other women, wecan be in community with them
in a better way as well.
So thank you all for tuning in,thank you, women, for coming
and having this conversationwith me.
I love that so much and we'llyou'll hear again from us next
week.
Speaker 4 (50:22):
Thank you so much, Christina.
Welcome back to the Inviting Shift podcast.
I'm so excited to have you hereand our lovely guests Again.
It's another week where we havethese really beautiful women on
and they're all in that midlifekind of space and we're going
to talk about how we can keepour mental and emotional
wellness through.
(00:21):
We have women here that havedifferent ways of keeping their
mental and emotional wellness,and I am here for it because I
feel like every time I recordone of these, it's like
something that I'm like, oh, Ineed that right now.
And so here it is.
I scheduled it for myself,manifested it, and so, without
delay, I just want to have ourwomen introduce themselves.
(00:45):
So, jen, can you tell us alittle bit about you, all, of
what we?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
use to help each other.
My name is Jen Fisher.
I run a travel blog.
It's called Jen Fisher Books.
It helps women get started,mostly solo travel, but it
(01:15):
really starts way before solotravel.
It really starts with arelationship with themselves.
It enables you to spend timewith yourself.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Value that time and understand that that is the
healing.
So yeah, thanks again forhaving me.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Thanks, jen and Erica a returning panel been a
teacher for a very long time 21years and I teach right now.
I teach 10th grade English inMassachusetts at a high school
and for 17 years, before I wasan English teacher, I was an art
teacher, an art teacher and I'man artist and a mom and I
(02:10):
really care a lot about takingcare of my own mental and
physical health and I'm excitedto be here as well.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Thanks, erica and Joanna.
Last but not least, introduceyourself.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Yeah, thanks for having me here.
I'm Joanna Klein, I'm thefounder of Journey to Legacy and
we offer virtual, self-guidedand also live courses that help
empower women to be inspired andreally impacted by their own
(02:43):
life experiences, so to be ableto guide them through processes
where they can reflect on theirlife, do writing, do exploratory
exercises that can help themheal, that can help them see the
wisdom that can inform theirmoving forward in their life in
a way that is both withintention and with inspiration.
(03:08):
And the people that we serveare mostly women, midlife and
beyond, and the result of ourcourses are life review or we
have life review courses as wellas life story writing, so that
those who want to write forlegacy can have something that
they can share and pass on tofuture generations.
(03:29):
I love hiking, I love all kindsof self-care activities, I love
being inspired by other womenand finding ways to increase my
self-care by the things that Ihear that others are doing.
So it's great to be here,beautiful.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Thank you, joanna.
And so, as we're talking aboutmental and emotional wellness, I
?
Um, midlife wasn't a time thatanybody was like, hey, that's a
big deal.
It was always like, ah yeah,she just doesn't get her cycle
anymore.
You know what I mean?
Like it would just like one dayjust magically stopped and boom
, everything was fine.
(04:07):
And what I'm finding is likemidlife is actually one of the
biggest times of transition forme.
I mean not just like, um, Imove around a lot, not just like
location wise, but likementally I've.
I start thinking aboutdifferent things Like what do I
want to do for the rest of mylife?
What do I think about therelationships in my life?
(04:29):
And also we have this wholeperimenopausal menopausal thing
that like, at least for me, it'sbeen guiding me on how to take
care of my body.
That's probably the kindest wayI can say it, but it's been a
lot of hot flashes and emotionaldisruption.
Let's say it's like being anadolescent all over again and
(04:50):
feeling that discomfort in mybody where I just I spent an
hour itching my skin the otherday.
I didn't realize that was amenopausal thing.
Apparently it is and hotflashes and all of these things.
So taking care of both ourmental and our emotional
wellbeing is so importantbecause at least for me because
(05:11):
when I'm physicallyuncomfortable, my mental and my
emotional wellbeing go out thedoor too, because I'm
uncomfortable and I don't wantto be there and I feel like a
spoiled little child or anadolescent.
That's just like all over again.
So that's why, today, I wantedto bring to you these beautiful
women who have each have likedifferent ways and different
(05:32):
processes and things around howthey take care of themselves so
that they can be mentally andemotionally well.
And one of the things I justwanted to start with because I
did this last year, joanna hadinspired me to do my life review
and I did a really shortversion of it because I wanted
to just go in.
(05:54):
This is how I am with mypersonal growth work Go in, get
the gold, get the hell out.
And so it really inspired me todo this life review, which was
really impactful because Istarted to see the patterns in
my life and the ways that mychildhood or my adolescence had
(06:17):
impacted the way that I lived mylife and the wounds that I had,
and how they impact the waythat I live my life and how they
impact the choices I make everyday, which has a lot to do with
my mental and emotionalwellbeing, and how resistant,
why I'm so resistant to treatingmy mental and emotional being
(06:39):
well.
Right, I mean, I really learneda lot about myself.
So, joanna, tell us a littlebit about how writing has been
inspiring you and your clientsto really look at their own
well-being in different ways.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
Well, and that's so awesome that you set your own
system up and discovered that,because that's exactly what has
been my experience too, indiving into my stories.
Realizing I've given certainmeaning to the stories and
experiences of my life, at mymemories and my stories, with an
(07:29):
open mind and a willingness tochallenge the meaning that I've
given it, has opened me up tothe possibility of looking at it
a different way, and one thatis serving me rather than not,
because I'm one of those thathave looked back on my life with
a lot of regret.
I've had a successful career 40years of developing personal
(07:49):
growth programs in a variety ofinstitutions, and yet I had a
really hard time seeing myselfas successful.
I was always not enough.
It never met my own standards,and so it wasn't until I started
diving in and looking at mystories and challenging myself
(08:09):
that I was able to change thatnarrative.
So writing is a way I have foundof doing it and I've been
through therapy andtransformational weekends and
all of that stuff has been great.
You know self-help books, butfor me, the process of writing
is what gave me a toolbox ofsomething to lean into and to
(08:34):
use on an ongoing basis and toreally take a look at as a story
comes up, as a memory comes upand it may bring up something
that's uncomfortable.
Uh, then, to be able to go inand either explore it by writing
about it or just through avariety of like exercises that
(08:55):
we use in life review, then toto create a different narrative
and to see the gold and thewisdom and the lessons and the
blessings, and that's turnedthings, as I said, has been
transformative for me and I'veseen it be transformative for my
clients.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
I love that so much because that's what happened for
me.
I had a lot of shame about my20s, which I think you're not
living your 20s right If youdon't have a lot of shame about
them.
Um, but like I really feel likeI collected so many red flags
in my and I used to feel like itwas like a victim-y kind of way
(09:32):
.
But once I started seeing like,oh well, this guy is just a
different version of that guyand that guy is just a different
version of that guy, I was like, oh, I had a pattern, even
though I thought they were alldifferent, like it was the same
relationship, just repeated,until, you know, until my
divorce, when I was like, oh no,we're not doing that again.
(09:54):
And I was really conscious thenabout what I was choosing.
But I think without lookingback at that, I wouldn't have
realized like I was the red flagcollector.
They didn't do anything to me.
They showed up the way thatthey promised to show up and I
was actually that person.
And I could also relate that tofriendships Cause that's where
it's more important to me,because I have a husband now I'm
(10:14):
not dating Um but tofriendships, like I used to
attach myself to women thatreally didn't have any loyalty,
didn't have any like realauthenticity to them.
So it was like it was a lot ofgossip and a lot of backstabbing
and it was like, oh, I actuallychoose, chose these women.
(10:35):
And so for me that was like abig part of my mental and
emotional well-being was likewhat are it started making me
think like, what are therelationships that I have now
and which ones do I want todeepen, which ones might I want
to let go of or at least allowthem to shift right Is a big
piece for me.
So for me that was a really, areally big deal.
(10:59):
Anybody else have experience?
Yeah, go ahead, Joanna.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Because one thing there's two things that you're
saying that I think are reallyimportant and one is that taking
responsibility for your ownpart, and that's a very
empowering that gives us agencywhen you start seeing it that
way.
And it's really important to dothat in combination with
self-compassion, because sooften when we see that and we
can go to guilt or shame orwhatever, but we were making the
(11:27):
best decisions we could make atthat point in time, and so it's
it's important to, when we doit, to be doing it with that
lens.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
I love that.
Yeah, learn from the lessonsright, instead of it's not to
like, bash me or even haveregrets, like I needed those
lessons in order to have thebeautiful relationships that I
have with women today,especially, and even my husband.
You know that there's a reasonwhy this relationship worked out
better than all the other onesis because I I really changed
(11:56):
the whole pattern and that wasreally nice to see.
But I love that you talk about,you know, being compassionate
with yourself because we didn'tknow better.
I mean, it was really cringyand yet that's me, that's my
story, and I know that just theother day on Facebook, I was
asking about things that wemight have regrets on, and I
(12:16):
know Erica's got a few of them.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
I had to write.
I had to write.
What do you get out of lookingback and really looking at some
of the history of your life?
I think that I really resonatewith what Joanna is talking
about because I'm an artist andan art teacher that became an
English teacher, and seamlessly,because I feel like visuals and
(12:44):
writing are very similar.
So I think I do something verysimilar to what Joanna's talking
about.
I explore visuals in the sameway to review my life.
If you take AP art in highschool right now they do
something called a sustainedinvestigation.
Art in high school right now,they do something called a
(13:07):
sustained investigation andyou're supposed to pick a topic
and do art that's related tothat topic.
So you actually do a researchproject, basically what most
artists do, especially thosethat are famous.
They work all day long doing asustained investigation.
So it's like you know, I'vetaught sustained investigations
and I was thinking about mydaughter who went through early
(13:30):
puberty.
So she was only 10 and she wasmy size and people thought she
was me.
So she went through earlypuberty.
She skipped a grade, six toseven, so that she could be more
physically the same size,because she was stooping to be
the same size as the girls inher class.
(13:50):
She's my size, so I'm fivethree.
We're not tall, but she wasjust so much taller early.
So while she was going throughthis problem, I was learning how
to teach AP art and I waslearning how to teach children
to have a sustainedinvestigation, which I don't
(14:11):
know if you know a lot ofteenagers, but sustaining
anything for any long amount oftime, except for, maybe, video
games, is like not a thing.
So I was learning that and asan adult learner, I was learning
how to teach kids about doingthis kind of exploration of
their lives which, when youhaven't been alive that long,
(14:31):
like it's hard to haveperspective.
(14:57):
And I did my own sustainedinvestigation on my body
changing because of having aC-section with my daughter and
going, you know, from havinglike one body to then being
pregnant and having a differentbody, to then having a baby and
having a C-section.
And the way that my body decidedto react to the C-section is
that I have basically twostomachs right and that feeling
is hard to have when you likelook and you see what you, what
your body looks like after that.
So she was having a hard timewith her body because she was
(15:17):
going through her first likedealing with puberty.
So I decided to do aninvestigation of that visually.
So I did a series of like 20 to40 artworks that were all based
on my stomach, which I wasreally like basing it head on,
because it was like the thingwhen I looked in the mirror that
(15:38):
I didn't want to see and Idecided that if she was going to
go through something that wasreally hard for her, that I was
going to try to understand it bygoing through that hard thing
kind of simultaneously.
Um, and so I feel like that's Ithink that's the way that I
handle this entire subject isMaybe it's because I'm from New
(16:04):
Jersey and we like to just bedirect, which sometimes may be
criticized for being a littletoo direct, but I feel like the
way that I get through somechallenges is I just that we can
get those feelings out and andyou know, crying or talking, or
(16:32):
meditating, or hiking, or makingsomething, it's all the ings
that help you get through whatyou're getting through.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
I love that because, even if even those women who
haven't had C-sections orwhatever, as we get in the
midlife, I mean your body'schanging anyway.
Like, whether you tookperformance care of it or not,
your body is going to change inways that you never expected it
to.
I know mine has, and it was achallenge when I realized like,
(17:05):
whew, this is what my body.
I didn't have a really a tallmirror for a long time and then
all of a sudden, one day I did,or I think I was like in a hotel
room and I was like, justbecause it was so shocking to me
.
But and I did have to do a lotof work, I've done a lot of
journaling about it, I've takena lot of pictures of myself, not
(17:26):
for social media, but just so Ican review it.
You know, almost like an artist, kind of like that like, let me
look at it, let me accept thispart of me, because this is who
I am now.
And if I don't accept that, Idon't like to be that person
who's, like, always trying tohide it or, you know, like or
try to.
There's women who try to dresscertain ways to hide their
(17:48):
stomach or their butt orwhatever, and I'm just like it
is what it is.
This is me, it's okay.
It doesn't mean that I can'tchange it, you know.
It doesn't mean that I can'twork on it, I can't do things
about it, but there is like areal mental and emotional
wellness about being acceptingof.
(18:08):
This is what aging looks like,and sometimes it's curvier than
it used to be, or there's thingsthat didn't used to be there
that are there now, or viceversa, or vice versa, not there
anymore, um, and that it's beenreally vice versa not there
(18:29):
anymore, um, and that it's beenreally, really lovely for me, Um
, and I know that, for me, oneof the best ways I can take care
of my mental and emotionalwellbeing even though a lot of
people, like, associate it withphysical wellbeing is like going
out in nature and hiking, or,um, you know, just actually
sitting sometimes and breathingin nature is so much different
(18:50):
than sitting and breathing in my, in my house, um, and so I know
that, jen, she encourages womento go traveling, to hike, to
see new things, um, and I'm surethat that's how, you know, lots
of women help their mental andemotional well-being.
What?
What do you know, jen, aboutlike traveling, and how that
(19:13):
helps us internally as we getolder.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I know that being able to be self-sufficient and
plan what you want to do andwhat your needs are and you know
your itinerary, every detail itflies in the face of
codependency.
I do know that for a fact.
But I was enjoying listening toeverybody's process.
(19:38):
I was enjoying how you find thepath that works for you.
You can still get to the otherside, you know, um, and I was
listening for the similarities.
You know I'm I'm an artist onlyin that I used art to heal a
lot of my trauma and didn't goout seeking or searching it, but
(20:02):
yet it found me.
You know, um, and of and, ofcourse, just enjoying listening
to and being reminded ofself-compassion and really was
marveling at.
You know, christina, yourability to just take a step back
and evaluate your lifeobjectively.
(20:23):
Like that I could not.
Things had to get reallydrastic, black and white for me
to be able to see some of thethings that you were describing
like patterns, um, like you know, very, very, uh, black and
white, um, and dramatic, um, butI did, you know, and here I am.
(20:46):
You know, here I sit a veryhealthy woman, um, even though
it was a.
It was pretty, you know,traumatizing getting there, um,
but uh, yeah, I.
I think that solo travelingteaches you how to be your own
best friend and if you don't,you know if you don't have a
(21:06):
great relationship with yourself, you will.
After you start taking a couplesolo trips, I know it's hard to
really identify what is a goodor a bad relationship.
It's ingrained in what we'vealways thought.
So how do you know if you'renot necessarily enjoying your
(21:28):
relationship with yourself?
You know, and that's again thatpart of that self-evaluation
I've learned a great deal ofwriting for other women about
myself.
I think that when we try toteach others wellness mental,
emotional, physical wellness weare always helping ourselves.
You know, as soon as you likeum, joanna said like taking that
(21:52):
personal responsibility andthen shouldering it for, uh, to
be a leader, it's just like, allof a sudden, you know, you just
like to your full height, whichis your.
Your light is shining bright.
You know, um, because that'swhat we need.
We need somebody to say like,hey, I'm not afraid to let my
light shine.
You know, that becomes anattraction, that becomes a light
(22:18):
, a beacon for others.
But yeah, you know, I find theparts about our body image very
interesting.
I definitely have suffered fromanorexia a lot of my life, in
teenage years and adulthood, andyou know all of that comes back
full circle to love myself.
(22:39):
You know, even with all of myself-abandonment, you know like
that has been the most healing,you know, is to say like I'm not
going to abandon you.
You know like that has been themost healing, you know, is to
say like I I'm not going toabandon you.
You know, put my hand on myheart, I'm not going to abandon
you, no matter what happens onthe outside.
So, um, yeah, and the travelingI do find that sometimes it's
(23:03):
like, oh, I don't have the moneyto travel, you know.
And and I laugh because I'mlike, well, hiking is free,
camping is free.
Not that everybody wants tohike and camp, but there are
ways to find that little getawaythat is your joy, whatever it
is.
Sitting in nature I waslistening when you said just
(23:23):
sitting in nature is differentthan sitting in your house.
I walked down to the beach onmy lunch break and was like, oh,
my god, that is so true.
Like when I take a deep breathlooking at the ocean, it really
is different than if I'm in myliving room or my job, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
So, yeah, it's just a lot of really valuable reminder
yeah, I think so often weforget that going out in nature
isn't just about beingphysically well, but it's like
whew, it helps me at least getout of my monkey mind and into
my body again, which is a hugepiece for me these days.
(24:01):
And, erica, I saw your headbobbing.
I know you got something hereto say.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
I think that when we were talking about body image
and then Jen was talking aboutshining your light, I really
feel like we are most attractiveto ourselves and others when we
are accepting of ourselves andwe're allowing our gifts to
blossom in the world and that weare doing the things that we
(24:31):
want to do with our lives,independently of anyone else.
That other people don't give ushappiness.
It really is from ourselves.
Like that you get the real, youknow glow about you.
I mean I get that a lot.
Like I get told like how do youdo all these things?
How are you?
You know glow about you?
I mean I get that a lot.
Like, um, I get told like howdo you do all these things?
How are you?
You know, I wake up, I work outevery day, I go to work, I walk
(24:54):
my dog, like there's all thesethings that I do as a pattern
for me.
Um, and you know people like,well, I could never.
I get this a lot.
I could never do that, you know.
And I'm like, well, you knowwhat?
Actually, it's not about what Iwant to do.
Like you don't have to takewhat I do and do it.
(25:17):
Figure out what you want to doand do it.
There's like all kinds ofthings you can do for yourself
when you wake up, to notimmediately just like roll out
of bed and go to work right, youcould.
There's so many things tochoose from that you could do.
That people find really givesthem what they need, you know.
So, like Christina's alreadyheard me talk about this but
(25:38):
like I did 75 hard and I did it.
Um, it's.
It's this workout thing whereyou work out twice a day and you
you're on a diet.
You work out twice a day andyou're on a diet.
It's very strict.
For 75 days I worked out twicea day and just my personality
and the way I was brought up, itwas super easy for me to do
this and people fail at it andif you fail you have to go back
(25:59):
to day one.
And I just did 75 days straightand did it.
And we're talking big, big beefyguys go on radio shows and talk
about how hard this is to doand I'm just like I did it and I
think it's because that's who Iam as a person.
It's just that I have adiscipline.
(26:20):
That is important to me andthat doesn't mean that my
discipline needs to be what youdo.
You know you could wake up andmeditate or just like I don't
know color on coloring books orsomething, just as long as you
find that thing.
That is what gives you thehappiness, is what's going to
make you feel good.
And when you feel good likereally feel good and you're
(26:42):
really happy, that's when you'regoing to shine.
You're going to glow to otherpeople.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
I love that so much Cause I was just on a call the
other day with a small group.
There was two women and they'relike their problems were like
the opposite.
One keeps their day sostructured, so busy, that they
don't.
It's like it's their way ofnumbing out the world, is like,
hey, this is my regimented kindof life.
And the other one is sospontaneous, so like in the
(27:09):
moment, that she often loses hermental and emotional wellbeing
because she's like constantlygoing and like I don't want to
say spastic, but like switchingthings all the time, and so she
doesn't really get to processanything.
But both of them are like doingthe same thing in one way or
another.
And I guess my point is is thatI was never a routine kind of
(27:32):
person.
My husband's a routine person.
You tell him that you knowwalking 1.2, 1.25 miles every
day is exactly perfect.
He will go do it every day, hedoesn't need to be questioned.
He will like he will go do itevery day, he doesn't need to be
questioned.
He will like he has a whole twoand a half hour self-care thing
in the morning before he goesinto his desk to work, and it's
(27:53):
just like I could never do that.
However, my life's been a littlebit chaotic is a word in the
last few months, and so for meit's like I then needed to add
routine.
And because there is a piece ofroutine for me that helps me
(28:14):
feel more stable, that helps mefeel more emotionally grounded,
so like before I turn on mycomputer, I read, I write in my
journal, I set my intentions forthe day, right, all these
things that Erica has heard mesay to my clients time and time
again.
But you know, I actually had tofollow the.
I'm like okay, christina ischaotic, let's follow my own
(28:38):
advice.
What would I do?
And those are the things thatwork for me.
Some people they hate journaling, but they'll paint in the
morning or do something creativeor even make themselves a
beautiful breakfast if that'swhat makes them feel good, right
.
So I love that you were sayinglike each thing is different for
(28:58):
everybody, because I would.
The 75 hard is not for me, justlike I have a friend nearby
where I live that she's atriathlete, so it's like her
morning routine is definitelynot going to be the morning
routine I have, because thatwouldn't feel good and it
wouldn't be mentally oremotionally kind to myself.
(29:20):
So we all have to decide what,what, how much routine do we
need in a day around this mentaland emotional wellbeing?
And for me it's like I needminimal until I need some, and
then it needs to be realstructured, and I'm not sure,
joanna, if you have any kind ofroutine or non-routine that you
(29:40):
do.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
And let's see, I have both routine and non-routine.
But before that I just wantedto come back to something that
Erica kind of alluded to withoutsaying it specifically, but I
know that so many women,including myself, have this
challenge.
It's that comparison.
The friend Erica you weretalking about is saying, well, I
(30:01):
couldn't do that.
So that sets us.
As soon as we start doing thatto ourselves, so that sets us as
soon as we start doing that toourselves, then we're giving
ourselves that negativeself-talk.
That, rather than diving in andasking ourselves what does work
, just like you were saying,with you and your husband
Christina, he does one thing,you know, just wanting to
(30:25):
presence that, because I thinkthat so much gets in our way
when we start hearing aboutother people's successes with
what works or what doesn't workand I am a workaholic really,
with the life story, writing andseeing the life review and
(30:47):
looking at my patterns is that Ifound my worth by what I do,
and so I've had to really, withintention, set things to make,
schedule things so that I willtake myself away from work, and
one of the things that's workedgreat for me is to schedule
(31:09):
hikes with my girlfriend so thatI have a girlfriend for Monday,
I have a girlfriend for Tuesday, I have a girlfriend for Friday
and we meet and then it's acombination of therapy because
we're talking the whole time andthen getting out of nature and
getting the physical.
So that's been really good and II've noticed, you know just,
(31:32):
the older I've gotten and andthrough menopause and on, you
know how I've responded toalcohol, for example, and how
that's.
You know that that shift hasshifted for me over the years
and making time, that's quiettime and music and just taking
those breaks.
So yeah, I do it more, otherthan the structured with my
(31:54):
girlfriends.
It's more me having to catchmyself in the act of self-care.
And then, clearly, the writinghas been very healing for me.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
I think a lot of women are afraid, and maybe Jen
can talk about this.
I think a lot of women areafraid, and maybe Jen can talk
about this.
I think a lot of women areafraid of exploring what it is
that would make them happy, andI think there's a lot of
barriers to why people have andwomen have hard, a hard time
figuring out what it is thatwould make them happy and would
(32:27):
fulfill them.
And I'm wondering if, becausewhen I travel solo, people are
like, wow, you did that yourself.
Like it's like this, like noone went with you and you went
on a mountain and and like noone else was there and I ran
(32:50):
into a bear and that was theonly other person I saw was this
bear.
So I'm wondering if, likebecause Joanna, what Joanna was
saying sparked me to think abouthow comparing is a hard thing
to do for yourself, but thenfiguring out who you really are
can be really scary.
And going on those solo tripsI'm sure is exactly what Jen was
(33:12):
talking about.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
You know the easiest way, the easiest analogy is that
I learned to become my own bestfriend, deeper you know.
Longer story is that I didn'tknow I hated myself until I
became my own best friend,deeper you know.
Longer story is that I didn'tknow I hated myself until I
became my own best friend youknow, and so, yeah, there's a
(33:34):
lot to unpack there.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
And I think it's both and right, like I think in
midlife I've learned to get abetter relationship with myself,
but it also reminded and italso reminded me that it's
really important to have womenin a community, and I know I
know that all of us know this,because I know that we all have
(33:59):
really great relationships withwomen and we love to be in
community with other women,which was something that I
didn't realize until I went to awoman within weekend that I was
really scared of other women,that I didn't trust them.
I would have rather been in aroom with 60 men than 60 women
because it really frightened me.
(34:20):
Um, and I know that in anotherpodcast episode Joanna talks
about this, it was the beginningof season two about the wounds
of female relationship, and Idon't want to go too deep into
that, but go to season two,episode two, if you want to
learn more, because it's reallyinteresting.
But I do want to go into howmidlife's a time where women may
(34:42):
have been working, may havebeen full-time moms, may have
been doing all of these things,and now that we don't have PTA
meetings to go to or soccergames, it can be hard to meet
other women and become friends.
Tell you today I wouldn't be asmentally and emotionally well
(35:03):
today if I did not have all thecircles of women that I sit with
, that I can commute, communewith, that I look up to and they
actually, you know, are inconnection with me because they
see something in me too and,like that stuff means a lot to
me.
So, and I know, jen, you lovecommunities, that women, so tell
(35:24):
us a little bit about you.
Know what community does foryour mental and emotional
wellbeing.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Yeah, I, um, was really appreciating the reminder
of how, at our age, you know,important female relationships
are, and I remember how I alsofelt that way about women.
And, you know, I haven'tthought about it in a long time
and I was thinking, like youknow, comparing it, and I
(35:51):
realized for me with that isunderstanding, that what I was
projecting out was my dislike ofmyself.
And the only way I know that isbecause, when I listened to
what you were explaining, it wasso obvious to me that I love
women because I do love myself,and it's not in any way
(36:12):
narcissistic or ego, it's joy,it's, you know, belonging, it's
a feeling of, you know,excitement, even.
And, yeah, I travel solo allthe time and sometimes I'll go
(36:38):
on a trip and I won't hear thosewords like, oh, you're by
yourself, you know.
And sometimes I'll go on a tripand I'll hear it the entire
trip.
It's funny how that works, um,because I'm the same person
traveling by myself, you know,um, and when I hear it when I it
used to, really, you know catchme off guard and like, put a
(36:58):
little, like spring in my step,but by taking on a role to one
is other women.
All you need to tell me is oneor two times that.
Like, why are you inspiring?
I do.
I'm like, well, hey, let's go.
You know, if that's the case,that me as you know, I'm a
teacher by day like let let meyou know um use my gifts and my
(37:23):
talents and my skills and knowum use my gifts and my talents
and my skills, and you know wecan go forward together, you
know.
So now, when I hear like youinspire me, I'm like okay, how
can we work with this and moveforward as a collective?
Speaker 4 (37:38):
you know, Um.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
So it's really amazing to be able to, um, use
your light to guide others.
You know, to go back on thatanalogy, because anybody can
really do it, because I didn'thave a passport until I was 40
and I couldn't even drive, youknow, two hours from my house.
You know it was an evolution.
It took time, but one step at atime.
(38:01):
You know if I can do it,anybody can do it.
Mm-hmm, if you have the desire.
You know if I can do it,anybody can do it If you have
the desire.
You know it's just breaking itdown into a process or, you know
, like a routine.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
You know however, it makes sense to you.
You know, if you want to do it,you can do it.
There's something aboutchallenging ourselves that I
think is so good for ourwellbeing that I know that
people, especially like inmidlife, we can get into this
like cozy comfort zone, and thenwe're like, yeah, I'd like to
try that, but you know, seemsrisky.
(38:32):
I could just, you know, sit onthe couch and eat my ho-hos and
watch a movie or something,instead of going to do that
scary thing.
And yet there's like somethingthat we need in that right.
The discomfort and my clientshear this all the time is that
discomfort is the price ofgrowth.
Discomfort is good.
(38:54):
It means we're growing and wewant to continue to grow.
I mean, if we're not continuingto grow, then what are we?
I mean, I'm not quite 50.
I'm what?
Am I going to spend the next 30, 40 years just in stasis, like
just doing the same thing I'mdoing today?
I hope not, because it seemslike I have a whole nother life
that I could be living Um and soto just kind of pitch it in and
(39:16):
stay in that comfort zonerather than I mean you travel a
few times by yourself, or atleast my experience was I
traveled a few times by myselfand I was like I actually like
this.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
I like the company.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
I don't have to like worry about what anybody else
wants to do.
I can just go do whatever Iwant to do.
I can have the food that I want.
I can reschedule a day.
However, I want nobody's goingto care that I'm canceling plans
or making it different and I Istill get the questions.
You went to the beaches byyourself.
Yeah, the whole time nobody waswith you.
(39:53):
Yeah, it was lovely.
I could read a book and notworry about entertaining anyone.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
Like it was so lovely yeah, if I can hop in.
Uh, christina, because I youknow, from my experience and the
women that I've worked with, itseems like when we get to this
place of like 50s, 60s, there'sthis you know, we've been on, we
we've been driven our wholelife in so many ways, kind of on
(40:24):
autopilot, you know, takingcare of building a career,
raising a family, doing allthese things towards a life that
we thought we were supposed tohave.
And at some point we lookaround and go, hmm, life isn't
what I thought it would be.
And for many of us maybe notall, but for many, and there's
(40:44):
some that can be discouraging wecan look at that and go get
discouraged, and sometimes wejust need that space and just
give ourselves.
That time we become the emptynesters or the career slows down
or even towards retirement, andthere's a need for some kind of
space just to be.
And there's a need for somekind of space just to be.
But my experience has been thatthen women are like, okay, I
(41:10):
want something, I want back towhat?
How do we take care ofourselves, how do we fall in
love with ourselves?
And for many of us it's for thefirst time, I mean, it's like
(41:33):
you're not alone, jen.
I'm right there with you withhaving it.
I mean, I became anentrepreneur at the age of 65.
I'd always wanted to be anentrepreneur, but I never
believed I had the capability.
So it took me that long tofinally say I get to step in.
What the hell am I waiting for?
(41:53):
You know, I want to do this.
Go for it, instead of lookinglike you know where's the gold
watch, I'm going to retire.
So it's so much, I think,recognizing.
Recognizing that there it is atransition and it is a process
and we do sometimes need to justtake that break and reset, but
that once we then start divingin and doing the healing and
(42:15):
whether it's art or travel orwriting or, you know, groups- or
whatever.
Then, how do we get ourselves to, you know, to the new source of
inspiration?
Speaker 3 (42:26):
Do you feel like the key was that one day you decided
to be one an entrepreneur, andthen you were?
Speaker 4 (42:33):
It was that I tell people that Bingo, erica.
It was just that, it was like,why not?
Speaker 3 (42:42):
That's what I tell people too.
I'm like it's so easy, you, butit's hard.
But you just say, that's what Iam now, and then you are well,
but I did have.
Speaker 4 (42:53):
I had to also do something that I I've always
been the lone ranger, you know.
I've always been like I have todo it myself, and it was a
friend confronted me.
She's like you can do this, butyou're going to need a coach,
you're going to need somesupport.
And I have to finallyacknowledge that I couldn't do
it alone, that I needed theguidance and the structure and
and and.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
So that in and of itself was huge for me to
acknowledge that and it made allthe difference what I love
about that is I always say, likethe first half of our life is
like us doing what we thinkwe're supposed to do or we
should do, and then the secondhalf is when we get to choose to
do what we actually want to do.
But we have to, like Joanna andeverybody here has said, we
(43:34):
have to have our own courage inorder to step into that and go.
Well, let me try it.
And I loved what Joanna saidabout taking that break.
Like, take that break, restmamas.
You've been raising kids for 20years, plus some of you.
Um, take that rest, figure itout, let your body come back to
normal, right, and your mentaland your mental and emotional
(43:56):
health come back to normal or toeven better, and then decide
and it's such a weird thingbecause when we're little kids,
like, we don't think about that.
We think about the marriage andthe blah and the blah and the
blah, but most of us havechecked those boxes by like 40
or 45.
And then we're like, oh, Ididn't know that I was going to
have a whole, nother decades tolive, like I thought somehow I
(44:19):
was going to be happy just tosit on the rocking chair and
wait.
You know, I don't know what Ithought I was going to do, like
I was just going to sit thereand homeostasis until like okay,
now it's time to die.
But we don't make plans forthat, which I think is really
actually quite brilliant,because we don't know.
I mean, if you would tell, askme when I was little what I
(44:40):
would be doing at 60 or 70, Imean, I'm sure it's nothing.
At 47, I'm not doing anything Ithought I would be doing.
So I think it's really lovelyto have that break and give
ourselves that whole newperspective of what is it I
actually want to do.
Did I want to be an artist whenI was young and everybody told
(45:01):
me that wouldn't make money, soyou can't do that.
Now I can go back to art.
Did I want to go be a forestranger?
I think it would be a forestranger even at my age.
Um, so whatever the thing is,we can step into that.
I know that we can have thisconversation all day, but what I
want to close with is each ofyou to offer one piece of wisdom
, and then you're welcome toshare anything about your
(45:23):
business or whatever's going onor how to connect with you, and
just know that I'll have all ofyour links in the show notes
below, so you don't need tospell them all out.
That should make it really easyfor people to clickety, click
and get connected to you.
So I think, um, I, I think I'llstart with one piece of wisdom
(45:44):
and, um, I think what justhaving courage right, having
courage to step out of thatcomfort zone, I think is so
essential when you're ready,when you're ready.
But I think that when we thinkof mental and emotional wellness
, we can think of therapy andall those beautiful things, and
sometimes, um, sometimes, it'sjust having courage to take the
(46:08):
first step of whatever it isthat we want to dream of.
And with that, jen, could you,uh, offer us a piece of wisdom
and tell us how we can connectwith you?
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Okay.
So, um, follow your heartbecause you're worth it.
And then, when you think aboutthose words like you definitely
can't get it wrong, because yourheart is yours and as soon as
you follow it, you'll know thatyou're worth it.
You know because in that actyou'll be making that a true
(46:40):
statement.
Yeah, and I'm atjennfisherbookscom and you know
my travel blog has all myresources for overcoming trauma,
leading the solo travel,traveling with your inner child.
Freebie quiz If you want to seewhere you are with your
readiness, how close you may beNice, but yeah, thank you for
(47:03):
having me Traveling with yourinner child.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
That sounds delicious and scary at the same time.
Thanks, jen.
Thanks so much for being on andhaving this conversation.
Speaker 3 (47:16):
Erica, my bit of wisdom is you get to decide what
your identity is.
Get to decide what youridentity is.
You are the one that mattersthe most to you and that you may
have other people telling youwho you are, or you might have
had a life where you feel likeyou didn't get to decide, but
(47:39):
you can make that choice now,like know, if that's what you
want.
You can find me at Missunderscore Manville on Instagram
and see my artwork and see whatwe're doing with my students.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
Thanks, Erica Joanna.
Speaker 4 (47:58):
Yeah, and what comes up for me is this notion of
pause, that maybe we can't stopeverything that's going on in
our life, but we can set anintention of setting time, just
quiet time, to connect andreflect that our life is our
(48:22):
best teacher, in my opinion.
And so taking that time to dosome connecting with who we are
and looking back with compassionand love and curiosity, but
just taking that time, makingthat time for ourselves and you
can find me at Journey to Legacy.
Find me at Journey to Legacyand I have a 12-week self-guided
(48:46):
life story writing course forthose who do like the writing
process.
It's very much a personaljourney.
It's guiding you on thatprocess of exploration of your
life and you get to write yourstories.
And if that's something thatyou ultimately want to share
with loved ones eventually, Idon't encourage doing it right
(49:10):
off initially, but to do thatexploration through writing.
And then, if writing is notnecessarily your thing but you
still want to lean into yourlife experiences from the wisdom
that it has to share, then mylife review course is a 12-week
live course online and there'scoaching.
(49:32):
We meet as a group and so it'sfor women, midlife women so if
you love being in that capacity.
We've got that one too, so youcan check it out at
journeytolegacycom.
Speaker 1 (49:44):
Nice, and I do have a client that's been through it
and thinks it's excellent.
So I mean it's just such a goodprocess to go through.
I think it's perfect at midlifeto go through this, that you
can really know who you are, asto, like what Jen was saying as
well really start to loveyourself and then you know, then
we can, even when we loveourselves, we can make better
(50:06):
connections with other women, wecan be in community with them
in a better way as well.
So thank you all for tuning in,thank you, women, for coming
and having this conversationwith me.
I love that so much and we'llyou'll hear again from us next
week.
Speaker 4 (50:22):
Thank you so much, Christina.
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