October 31, 2024 • 41 mins
What if the grief we experience isn't just about losing people, but also losing dreams, relationships, or even parts of ourselves? Our episode this week poses this provocative question as we unpack the intricate layers of grief with Steph Grainger and Kelly Berry. Steph shares inspiring stories from her journey of supporting women through past grief, turning pain into a catalyst for personal growth. In her 40s, Kelly faced profound losses and she opens up about navigating these seismic life shifts. Together, we explore the grief that sneaks in with chosen changes such as ending friendships or career transitions, and how these too can lead to a deep loss of identity.
OUR GUESTS:
Steph Grainger, Therapeutic Mentor has been supporting women since 2010, to reconnect to all that they are and desire to be, by walking beside them as they turn their pain into power, embrace all their truths, and live a free, authentic life.
She has supported many women for many different reasons, but all with the same goal in mind - to understand, trust and love themselves and move through their world awake and with intention, and free from restraints that have been attached throughout their lifetime lived so far.
Connect with Steph: Instagram | Facebook | Linkedin | Podcast | Website
Kelly Berry is a strategic business leader, coach and podcaster with over two decades of experience in the business and entrepreneurial sectors. She is passionate about helping others find their path and live a life full of purpose and joy. Through Life Intended, Kelly offers a platform for sharing transformative stories and wisdom to inspire others to lead more fulfilling lives.
Connect with Kelly: Instagram | Website
THE HOST:
Connect with Christina Smith & Inviting Shift on Social: Instagram | Facebook
Free Gift: The Confidence Tool Kit is here to help you walk into the second half like a queen (because you are one already). Get it here.
Email me and tell me what you think: christina@christina-smith.com
Tune In:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Christina Smith (00:00):
Welcome back to the Inviting Shift podcast.
I am excited to have you allhere to hear this conversation
about something that we don'ttalk about a lot, which is grief
, and for me I know my four dayshas been, I wouldn't say,
filled with grief, but there'sdefinitely been a lot more grief
than probably any other decadeand that's all kinds of grief
(00:22):
we're going to talk about lossof dreams, loss of people that
we love, loss of our minds,maybe in menopause, and so,
without taking too much of thistime, I just wanted to have our
guests introduce themselves.
So, steph, can you introduceyourself?
Steph Grainger (00:42):
Absolutely.
Thank you for having me.
My name is Steph Grainger and Iam in the UK.
I support women to deal with alot of the past grief that
they've experienced, in whatevercapacity that that shows up, in
order for them to be able tomove forward with their life and
allow those experiences todefine them in a really positive
(01:03):
way rather than hold them back.
Those experiences to definethem in a really positive way
rather than hold them back.
Um and I do that say for womenof any age, but typically women
that are drawn to work with meare 35 plus um so yeah, that's
me thanks.
Kelly Berry (01:16):
Yeah then, kelly thank you, I'm happy to be here.
My name is is Kelly Berry.
I am also a podcast host.
I host a podcast called LifeIntended and my podcast is all
about just bringing awareness tomostly women but how to live a
life of intention and live itwith authenticity.
(01:38):
I also am a business owner anda coach.
Work with business owners toset their vision and achieve
their business dreams, and withwomen, similar to what Steph
said.
Um, and really you, christina,too like helping women overcome,
you know, negative self-talkand a lot of limiting beliefs
(02:00):
from their past and, uh, findingout who they are and who they
want to be and helping themremove those obstacles to get
there.
Yeah, I'm in my 40s.
Also have experienced in thisdecade I'm 43, but probably the
most profound losses of my lifeto date, and some of those have
(02:20):
been the loss of people I love,but some of them have been the
other things that you describedlike unmet expectations.
So I'm excited to dive into theconversation.
Christina Smith (02:30):
Yeah, All that unmet expectations and let's
just talk about like, yeah, whatare all the different things
that we grieve?
I know just in the past yearI've grieved loss of friendship
because friends can change inyour forties, as you start aging
, and things are different.
Letting go of grieving who Iused to be right and how life
(02:55):
has kind of changed me.
There's even this menopausalgrief of like grieving that
fertility I mean not so much forme.
I'd love to flip the switchanytime, but for lots of women,
there comes up a grief aroundnot being, you know, being able
to carry a baby anymore.
Even if they didn't want tocarry another baby, they can
have that.
So there's so many differenttypes of grief.
(03:18):
What do you?
What have I missed here?
Steph Grainger (03:21):
I experienced grief when I got divorced.
I was divorced about 16 yearsago and I'm now remarried.
But that was one of the hardestexperiences and because of the
loss of the life, I expected thelife that I had anticipated for
my children as well as for methe trauma of being a child of
(03:44):
divorced parents.
I didn't want that for mychildren as well as for me.
You know the trauma of being achild of divorced parents.
I didn't want that for my kids.
So when it came to therealisation that this
relationship was not working andwe couldn't retrieve that, I
was desperately sad and verymuch grieving that loss and as
much as I didn't want him in mylife anymore, everything that
(04:05):
came with him, even grieving theloss of my in-laws.
They were still going to be inmy life.
I could no longer call mymother-in-law my mother-in-law.
You know things like that andsuch a huge sense of loss.
Everything changed how we didChristmas changed, how we did
birthdays changed, all of thatand at the time I didn't even
(04:26):
recognize it as grief.
I didn't even recognize it asgrief.
I didn't even acknowledge it tobe the grieving process.
It was very difficult tonavigate because it's not
something that people talk about.
In that sense, you don't hearpeople say I grieved when I got
divorced.
It's just to me grief was verysomeone dies, you grieve, and
that was the very firstexperience I had of grieving
something that was no longergoing to be in my life, but the
(04:48):
person was still here.
It was a very differentexperience for me.
Christina Smith (04:53):
I love that you say that because it's like this
grief of like even if we makethe choice right to get that
divorce or change our life, itdoesn't mean that we skip the
grief part right.
Like it doesn't mean thatthat's not going to happen.
Um, even if it is our choice ofwhatever happens, and that that
is also um a friendship that Ihad, that I let go of.
(05:15):
It's like that was our choicetogether and yet, at the same
time, it's still sad.
I mean, I still had ideas, justlike you, with your marriage,
had ideas of how we would growold together, or you know, and
and be laughing like old ladies,or I, um, I, I also felt the
same thing during my divorce aswell, and that was many moons
(05:39):
ago, almost 20 years ago, um,and I still, I still can see
that grief, for you know, I wishit would have turned out
differently for our son.
How about you, kelly?
Kelly Berry (05:51):
Yeah, so I think and I'm working through this
still but like grief of a lostidentity.
So I used to be a runner, atriathlete, and I'll say used to
be like I still run a littlebit, but it was my identity.
You know, I was a runner, I ranhundreds of races, an ultra
(06:14):
runner, a trail runner and justthrough different circumstances
and life changes, I'm notanymore.
So I ran like a 50 mile race atthe end of 2019, had some like
nagging injuries that I wasgetting treatment for in early
2020.
And then the pandemic happenedand my treatment stopped and
it's like my body has just neverbeen able to recover.
(06:36):
Then I got pregnant, I had ababy.
You know all of these thingsthat I'm just kind of like
grieving that I will never bethe athlete that I was and how
much like personal fulfillment Igot from that.
How do I replace that?
What does that look like?
Will I be satisfied with, likebeing less athletic than that?
(06:59):
Like, can I replace that withyoga and still get the same
thing?
You know, as my body likechanges and, you know, just
needs different things.
So I'm still figuring out likehow to navigate that.
But you know, I don't even callmyself like a runner.
It's like, well, I used to be arunner or I used to be a
triathlete, um, and that just itfeels sad.
It was a season and it was justlike a really important season
(07:22):
in my life and um, it's just, Idon't know if it'll ever come
back, you know.
Christina Smith (07:27):
I agree.
I mean I was never a runner.
That's not what I'm grieving.
But there is a part of me wheremy body just naturally stayed
healthy and I didn't have to doa lot for it.
Um, and I could, I didn'treally have to limit what I eat.
And now it seems like my bodythere's this part that feels
like my body has kind of turnedon me, and that's the acceptance
(07:54):
and the grief that I'm goingthrough is that it used to be so
easy to take care of my bodyand now there's a lot more work
to it.
I just had my morning shakewith my collagen and my maca.
I mean I didn't have to do thatbefore.
And now, if I don't do thosethings for myself, I get so much
inflammation in my body and Ihave to figure out what foods
(08:16):
trigger me and I mean that's alltaken a really long time.
So like I grieve ice cream,because I really miss ice cream,
but my body does not want it atall anymore.
Steph Grainger (08:30):
I think it comes back to that point of these.
Things weren't said or we womendidn't have the openness to
express the menopausal processlike the perimenopausal process.
It's only now, certainly in myarea of the world, that that
we're talking about this.
It's such an open subject.
Period health has been taboo.
It's something we just didamongst ourselves, and education
(08:53):
was around concealing it andhow to deal with it in a certain
way, and it feels like themenopause is the same.
Women are seen to be a certainway through that process, so
let's just not talk about it,and so there's no wisdom.
That's kind of being passeddown from women that are older
than us.
So it's almost like I'm nowlearning without having anyone
(09:16):
told me that this is normal.
You're going to feel like this,you know, and for somebody that
never experienced fat around mybelly area, like it, just
everything I eat just goes therenow and it's why.
Why is this happening to me?
And then you put yourself onridiculous diets and you're
trying to get back to where youwas before instead of embracing
(09:37):
the change and why it'shappening and all of that, and
no one really spoke about that.
So I have definitely gonethrough a grieving process of
the body that I once had, likeyou were saying, the things that
I used to be able to eat, thatnow I just look at it and I
bloat.
You know all of these thingsand it's.
I've been very resistant.
I've been very angry about it.
(09:57):
For a period I was stuck inthat phase of grief, of the
anger of it's not fair.
Why, why can't I do thesethings anymore?
Why do I ache now?
Why do I sneeze and put my backout?
You know all of those things itfelt I was in.
I was stuck in anger for a longtime and I am transitioning
through the.
I've come out of that now.
I'm moving towards acceptance,but it's just um, yeah, it's not
(10:19):
spoken about.
And if you said I'm grieving mypre-perimenopausal body, it
might have looked at you likeyou had two heads, like what are
you talking about?
You know it's.
It's a strange subject, but weneed to talk more about it.
Christina Smith (10:30):
Yeah, it used to be well, just exercise more,
you know, go do the thing.
And it's like it's more thanthat and and we don't know this
because we don't really talkabout it.
In fact, I learned the otherday that even studying periods,
like scientists study erectiledysfunction six times as much as
(10:51):
periods, even though erectiledysfunction only affects like
15% of the population, whereperiods are like 50% of the
population.
It seems really odd, let alonemenopause.
You know, studying menopauseand just that change is been um,
it's just been really rough onme and I guess I want to talk
(11:11):
about what grief looks like,right, Cause people are like,
well, what, what is grief?
Especially, I have a lot ofclients that come to me and
they're like I don't really knowwhat I'm feeling because
they've ignored their body forso long that they don't really
know the differences betweenfeelings.
And for me, grief if we werelooking at mad, sad, fear, shame
(11:32):
, joy for me grief feels like aflip-flop between sadness and
anger, like it feels like thiswar going on between like I'm
really sad that I don't havewhat I had and I'm and, and uh,
what Steph said is like it's notfair, you know, like I can feel
my inner adolescent coming outgoing.
(11:53):
it's not fair.
This is now it's supposed to be.
I'm supposed to like I've I'vehit all these goals in my life
by midlife.
It's supposed to be easy peasyfrom here on out.
And it feels just as hard to meas it did when I was an
adolescent.
And I think that kind of makessense, because when we're an
(12:15):
adolescent, we're grieving too.
We're grieving losing ourchildhood and having to step
into adulthood, and even thoughthat's something that we
definitely don't talk about, itis something that is seriously
happening as we're having allthose hormonal changes, and so I
always look at menopause aslike our second puberty, where
(12:36):
it's like it's undoing all thatstuff.
But at the same time I feelsometimes I feel just as crazy
as.
I did when I was an adolescent,and I see Kelly popping her head
.
Kelly Berry (12:48):
Yeah, I mean, you know, talking about feelings, I
just feel like in the past twoyears I've had the gamut of
feelings surrounding grief, andsome that I think were very
unexpected for me are like shame.
Some that I think were veryunexpected for me are like shame
how come I can't move throughthis or move on.
(13:11):
You know, why am I?
Why do I feel like I'm justbeing drug through this?
And you know there's a lot ofcomparison out there for
everybody and it's like why doesit seem like other people are
able to move on?
And it's like why does it seemlike other people are able to
move on?
And I'm still stuck in this,like profound sadness over a lot
of things that have happened.
(13:37):
That's one jealousy, maybe thatyou know like other people
haven't had to experience thesame things, that you know it
can just feel like back to theshame thing, like feeling so
shameful that you feel jealousof other people because they
haven't had what the next minute?
I'm so sad, so tired, justreally tired of having.
It's a lot of work to gothrough all these emotions, you
(14:14):
know, and like manage yourrelationships through it all and
a lot of other things.
So I didn't really expect tofeel shame.
I didn't expect to feel jealous.
I didn't expect to feel like Ijust needed sleep all the time.
Um, which you know.
I don't know if that's having ababy in a toddler or if that's
(14:35):
going through grief.
I'm sure it's all justcompounds.
But you know, for me those weresome of the unexpected feelings
that I've had.
Steph Grainger (14:44):
Uh, through my experiences, yeah, you were
talking about the um element offertility and like mourning the
of your fertility.
And I'm like you, I'm done,like hard, like done, and I
would love to flick that switch.
But as I'm transitioning, Iskipped a period, one month, and
I did feel this sense ofsadness Like is this the end?
(15:05):
Is this now going to be comingto an end?
Something that I've had with mefor many, many years and I've
come to accept, and she arrivesevery month.
And the only time I've had withme for many, many years and
I've come to accept and shearrives every month.
And the only time I've skippedis when a baby is coming.
So all of a sudden it's nothere.
And is this the end of me beingable to do this part of
womanhood?
And I don't want to do it.
(15:26):
I don't want to do it again.
But there was a real sadnessthat day that I was just.
I sat in it and just thoughtwhy do I feel so sad?
Like this could be the end ofmy fertility journey, and
actually there's somethingreally sad about that and I
really wanted to honor that.
But then my period came thenext month.
So it's like this rollercoaster.
No, no, you're not quite doneyet, right?
Christina Smith (15:48):
right, just like testing, you testing and I
love what you said, Kelly, aboutthis comparison, because we do
this so often and I think thatwe often forget that what we see
on Instagram is people'sInstagram lives and it's not
there behind the scenes wherethey are possibly grieving as
well.
(16:08):
And what really came up for mewas my childhood and hearing my
mother go, just put your biggirl pants on and let's go.
Like you know what I mean.
Like, why can't I just suck itup?
Is what I want to?
Is what I constantly am tellingmyself these days is, like,
just suck it up.
Yeah, menopause sucks.
You're going to have theseemotions going crazy, and
(16:31):
sometimes there's not, there'snot an explanation for it.
Sometimes it's just it is whatit is and and yeah, there's a
real part of shame for a lot ofus of just saying why can't, why
can't?
Why is it such a big deal?
Why am I getting so emotionalabout this?
Like, why is this holding meback?
(16:51):
And what else you said was abouthaving to rest more and because
you're so tired all the time,and I don't know, I don't have a
toddler or a baby and I'm tired, and there's this real part of
me that gets angry that I haveto slow down, and I get angry
that I'm not doing or gettingdone as much as I used to, and I
(17:15):
think that that would happenwith any grief, whether someone
passed or left our lives orrelationships break.
I think that what I'm learningis that I need to be a lot more
gentler with myself and rememberthat I'm human and not a robot,
even though there's parts of me.
That's like I wish I was arobot.
(17:36):
That would be so much easier.
Have somebody just program meproperly.
And so we've talked a lot aboutwhat grief looks like.
So it can look like anything.
It can also look like there'ssome little moments of joy as
well, of going oh wow, I handledthat very well, even though I
(17:56):
didn't want to or even though Idon't like that this thing
happened.
There is this relief thathappens Like even when people
pass, if they're really sick.
There's like a relief that wehave, and then we feel guilty
about having relief that thisperson passed.
And so I guess what I'm sayingis all the things are okay when
(18:19):
it comes to grief.
They're all okay and they allkind of come in this giant bag
together and we don't reallyescape them.
But what is it that we can dowhile we're grieving in order to
, I guess, just be kinder toourselves?
Steph Grainger (18:35):
I think for me it is.
It is that it's exactly thatwhen I notice it's coming up, I
will show myself kindness andcompassion, and I'm so used to
as a woman, being so emotionallyresilient and being able to do
this and then be doing this andbe doing that.
And one thing that this phaseof my life has shown me is that
(18:56):
you can't, but neither shouldyou want to be doing all of
these things anymore, andthere's there's so much in
slowing down and showingyourself grace and all of those
things.
It's.
It's been a little bit I'vebeen.
It's taken a little while for meto catch up, but, um, I now
listen more and I'll sit down ifI need to sit down, or I will
(19:16):
say no now instead of saying yesand hoping that it will work
out fine.
I'm very boundaried now with myyeses because I know that the
weight of doing that is going totake me longer to recover and
actually do I really want to doit in the first place when
something else needs me?
So I'm showing myself grace alot more and it goes against the
(19:38):
grain, but I'm slowly catchingup to actually that's okay.
Now it is okay to do yeah.
Kelly Berry (19:44):
I think, for me vulnerability.
So I spent a lot of my lifebeing fine.
I'm okay, not really lettingpeople in, but always being a
good listener for others, takingon other people's problems,
coaching them through or justbeing there for them, but never
(20:09):
allowing anybody in my life toreciprocate that for me.
And it wasn't until I neededsomebody to do that that it kind
of had this awakening.
Well, the reason that nobody isbanging down my door asking how
they can help me is becauseI've never let anybody help me
and so really gettingcomfortable, getting really
(20:32):
uncomfortable.
So if my husband's like, how areyou, you know, I will now say
you know, I'm really sad, like I, I am really, really sad right
now, instead of being like I'mgood.
And and I'm good is the waythat I answered that question
for basically my whole life, mywhole life, and I just realized,
(20:56):
you know, that's what has keptfriendships more on like the
shallow side than the deep side,and so I've really tried to
open up more, let people seethat you know I'm not okay
sometimes or like this, justreally freaking sucks and I'm
having a really hard time and,um, you know I feel sadness a
lot and you know all it sucks,but it's also okay that I feel
(21:20):
this way and to be able to talkabout it with more people and,
um, just let people know that Ijust I need somebody to check on
me, like I've been checking onthem for so long.
Christina Smith (21:30):
I love, how you're like to tell them that
you know to let them know, hey,this is.
This door is open now and Ireally need the help rather than
whereas.
Before what I heard was, um,that you shut that off, and it
really brought up something forme, which is, um, in my forties
well, I guess in my thirties mylate thirties is when I started
um, when I started going towomen's circles and well, around
(21:54):
the world it's a womanwithinorg, in case anybody is
interested in a woman's circlebut those women's circles are
about being able to bringanything and not being judged
and just being kind of heldspace for, and that has been so
amazing for my grief, because Ican bring the tears and it
(22:18):
doesn't, it's not off-putting toanyone.
Or I can bring the anger, andthat's not off-putting to anyone
, and I'm able to share that andget the support that I need in
a really safe space.
So that's one way.
And what else I was picking upfrom what both of you were
saying is like this mindfulnesspiece, right Of just being like,
(22:40):
ooh, this is where I am today,and so how can I give myself
grace today If I'm having areally rough day, which I am
honestly having the roughest day, although you can't tell,
because I have these beautifulwomen here with me and I've been
loving talking to them, butjust giving myself grace and
(23:01):
saying, yeah, with my menopausalbrain.
Sometimes when I'm recording apodcast, there's words that
don't come up, that I want tocome up right away and they
won't do it.
And I don't feel as smart as Idid before, even though I know I
actually have more wisdom now,and it's that mindfulness that
(23:22):
it slows me down a little bit.
But who's to say that's a badthing?
I almost feel like that's onpurpose, right?
Like maybe menopause is here onpurpose, to like be like hey,
it's, it's time for you just tobe more mindful, to be more
conscious of what, what you'redoing with your energy and what
(23:44):
you're allowing in, what you'renot allowing in and how you're,
um, how I am reacting to allthat.
So in that tiredness right, Itry to find the gifts of yeah,
I'm tired because I need to slowdown and listen to my body.
I'm tired because I haven'tbeen listening to my body and
(24:04):
I've been pushing myself way toohard, and there's a lot of
wisdom that comes with that forme.
One of the things that I oftendo with my clients is something
called a dream funeral, which islike Steph and I were
discussing divorces.
When I got a divorce right,there was all this stuff that my
(24:29):
life wasn't going to look theway that I wanted it to right.
That fairy tale that, happilyever after, was just not going
to look the way that I wanted itto write.
That fairy tale that I thathappily ever after was just not
going to look the way that Iwanted it to, and it's not.
It's not like, um, people arelike oh well, you can have
anything you want.
Well, no, because oncesomething like that happens,
there are dreams that are takenout of there, and it's not
(24:49):
necessarily a bad thing, but itis something that I identified
myself with right Within thismarriage, and now I'm pulling
that identity away, and so adream funeral is about just that
, about putting all of ourdreams.
I often have my clients put themin like a little box.
(25:10):
Write all your dreams down thatare no longer going to happen,
put them in a box and then burythat box and have, literally,
have a little funeral for yourdreams, so that you have a place
to let them go.
Some people will burn them.
You know cremation.
Um, I like to have a boxbecause then I have a place to
go back to, because, as we know,just because you grieve at once
(25:33):
does not mean like, oh, allbetter, I cried once and now I
no longer feel that way.
But it gives us a space to goback to and, like, release more
of those dreams as they come,because I feel like I don't know
anybody who hasn't had grief inwaves.
Like there's people who show upto work, like the next week
(25:55):
after maybe a parent passes orsomething, but that doesn't mean
that those waves of grief aregoing to go away, and I think
that that can be.
What's so irritating for somepeople is that they go on and on
and on, and so I know, kelly,you've had a lot of loss in your
life.
How is it that you manage allthose waves that come?
(26:19):
Yeah, as best as I can.
Kelly Berry (26:22):
Yeah, right, the way that I can.
You know I there is kind of alot, you know, I will say up
until probably like my midthirties I would I would
describe my experience withgrief as very like normal circle
of life.
You know, I've had grandparentsthat passed away all well into
their eighties, um, some likeother family members, illnesses,
(26:47):
but you know I, I didn't reallyknow how to handle grief as an
adult because I hadn't had likea close, profound loss.
So when they started happeningand specifically, you know, I
will say maybe eight years ago,you know some, some profound
losses in mine and my husband'slife that just escalated up
(27:11):
until about 2021.
My grandfather passed away.
Then I had, like, my highschool soccer coach was murdered
.
I had a friend tragically hitby a car.
You know, my sister and herfamily suffered a loss of a
friend to COVID and then, Imentioned to you all, my best
friend was diagnosed withglioblastoma and she passed away
(27:33):
a year later.
So in a very small amount oftime, I not only had like close
losses, but some of them wereextremely tragic and sudden and
it was all such like newterritory for me, and so one of
the biggest helpers was atherapist, um, talking to
(27:54):
somebody who can help me, whoyou know I mentioned I hadn't
been very vulnerable, so Ineeded somebody that I could
practice this with and, um, whowas really like trained to help
me navigate all of thesefeelings.
Um, but I just even to Steph'spoint like I started saying no
to a lot of things, um, you knoweven things that I knew would
(28:16):
probably help me in the moment.
You know like, no, I'm notgoing to the gym today.
No, I'm not gonna.
I'm going to cancel thesemeetings or or whatever, like
really protecting myself, um,and the things that I was
exposed to and how much like thecapacity I would let kind of
like expand in my life.
(28:37):
And so therapy was a big one.
I also joined a women's circlein 2022.
That was amazing.
I'm actually partnering nowwith that facilitator and we're
starting a women's circle nextweek actually in our local area
(28:58):
and talk to and you know, don'thave the expectation that you're
going to show up as your bestself all the time.
You're showing up like how youare, and the same like I'll give
a ton of credit to my husband,like he understands, he's also a
coach, he is a listener, hekind of can like feel where I am
(29:22):
when I'm there.
He kind of can like feel whereI am when I'm there and will
always just offer, like you know, a way to think about things or
look at things.
That can help you put it intoperspective, because grief can
(29:47):
also just be so overwhelmingthat you feel like, uh, you're
just really close with and andknows you really well.
Christina Smith (29:53):
Hmm, that support is so important.
I think I don't even know whatI would do if I had gone the
last 11, 12, 15 years without awomen's circle.
I often have several of them atany particular time because
they've just been so helpful,because I think in my grief I
(30:15):
know I want to isolate and Iknow that that's sometimes
helpful and not always helpful.
And so knowing that I don't haveto isolate, like I can show up
as I am, like you said, and thatI'm going to be accepted.
I think it's so different, likeit's one of the gifts of
getting older for me, becausewhen I was young I went to lots
(30:38):
of different high schoolsbecause but we just moved a lot
and so I didn't trust women whenI was younger, because in high
school there was like a lot ofmean girls and they were at
every school, so I didn't reallytrust women.
And so if you're one of thosewomen listening to this and
going, I don't know how I'd feel.
My first women's weekend, I satin a room with 60 women.
(31:02):
Wish they were men, because menwould have been easier to
handle for me, and that's when Ifirst realized I didn't trust
women.
Um, but as I started being held, having space held for me by
women, I started to really trustthem.
And what I love about circle islike there's guidelines, there's
agreements to how we show up incircle, that we're not going to
(31:25):
judge each other, that we arethere to do the deep work, um,
where I feel like there's stillso many groups of women who try
to avoid that and stay on theshallow side and I I find myself
like not wanting to be in thosekinds of circles anymore, um,
and really wanting the deeprelationships, um.
So support is like essentialand, yes, therapy as well as has
(31:50):
been very, very useful to me.
Um, even as a coach, I go inand out of having a therapist
because I want to keep myselfclear too.
Steph Grainger (31:59):
You know, like I can't, I can't hold that space
for other women unless I'm alsoactually doing the work, like so
I'm just nodding furiously awayhere because, um, the most
profound grief I've everexperienced is the loss of my
sister, um, and that is a griefthat will be with me forever and
all grief is but it.
(32:19):
It defined me in such apowerful way and for a long time
, in an unhelpful way, because Iwas so young.
She was 17.
I was 19.
I have an older brother, whowas about 21 at the time, but it
shows up in all areas of mylife.
It shows up when I have mychildren, it showed up when I
(32:39):
got married.
It shows up when I see sisterswith their children playing
together and I have, like I say,my brother and he has children
as well and we are very close.
But I think most recently it'sresurfaced because our dad is
unwell.
He is seeing out the last days,weeks of his life and she's not
here again.
So it's again.
(33:01):
You know it been gosh nearly 30years since she, since she
passed, but it it shows upconsistently through big
milestones in our life thatshe's just not present.
So sometimes it takes yourbreath away.
Sometimes you didn't see itcoming, and other times you know
it's coming, um, and it's howyou support yourself when it
shows um, and I and I have gotreally good now at naming it and
(33:24):
allowing it and my default isto get in my car and drive to
the sea and stand on the beachand just let it come at me and
let it go at the same time.
But it's taken me quite a longtime to do that.
But women's circles have justtransformed my life.
I think being in circle withwomen, possibly around 14 years
(33:47):
ago, was the first time Ifinally found a place.
I fit, um, and that's how Iwould explain it because, like
you were saying, christine, aschool for me again didn't fit,
didn't know where I.
You know some mean girls.
I tried to stay in that campbecause you felt safer there
than you did, if you, you know,removed yourself.
But when I sat in circle forthe first time, I was like,
(34:09):
finally, finally, here's a groupof women that are just kind to
each other and I have been inmany since then and I
continually sit in circlebecause it just it's so
refreshing Like I have anincredible husband and the same
I go to therapy regularly, butsisterhood has been a game
(34:29):
changer for me, yeah, and it'snot in our natural DNA to be so
kind to each other.
Christina Smith (34:37):
Unfortunately, it's actually in our DNA to be
more about women's relationships, and I can't remember who wrote
it, but you can go look it up,great.
Well, yeah, we could probablyhave this conversation all day,
of course, and we don't have allday, so I'm going to have us
each close out with one piece ofwisdom, and if you also want to
(34:59):
share how people can connectwith you in case they want to
reach out to you, that would begreat.
My one piece of wisdom, andjust allow it to be okay
wherever you are, just allow itto.
You're sad today?
Great, be sad today.
You're angry day?
Great, be angry today.
And whatever it is, just allowit to pass through you, because
(35:23):
there's so many times I'vewanted to like, stomp it down
and be like, oh, we can't bethat way today.
Put on the happy face and thenI and I feel like I have been
stuffed and I don't feel myselfand I'm not also not hearing the
wisdom of what the feelings aretrying to bring to me.
(35:43):
So, with that staff, can youcheck out with a little wisdom
and how people can reach you?
Steph Grainger (35:50):
Absolutely.
I think the biggest lesson Ilearned was boundaries, and I
learned that the hard way, butonce I started to look at my
boundaries and implement them,it meant that I felt so much
safer with with what I was doing.
So I would always say noticethe areas of your life where
you're giving too much andyou're depleting yourself and
(36:13):
think about how you can put someboundaries in place.
Um, I read a on the back of oneof my friends bathroom doors
and it said say more as in saythe word no more so that it
gives your yeses more power.
And I loved that and that wasabout 15 years ago.
I read that and it stayed withme and I just think what you
know saying yes all the time, itdepowers you completely.
(36:36):
So I would, I would say thatboundaries and, yeah, checking
that, but you can find me onInstagram.
It's probably where I hang outthe most at.
I am Steph Granger and you canfind me at stephgrangercouk.
Christina Smith (36:50):
Thank you, thank you, and those links will
be down below as well, so thatpeople can easily click on them.
And Kelly.
Kelly Berry (36:58):
Yeah.
So I think my wisdom is topause and take notice when you
are living in autopilot.
And I say that because I thinkthat a lot of us are just in
this habit of letting life passus by staying busy, and really,
(37:19):
that we're doing things thatdon't bring us joy or that we
don't love, and we don't reallystop to take notice of that,
because it's just what we do,it's it's what our life looks
like, it's it's this likepattern that we've gotten
ourselves in, but it can lead todoing things that are really
misaligned with who you are andwhat you want.
(37:39):
And so then you find yourself,you know, way down the road,
very far from where you thoughtyou'd be or where you wanted to
be, and and all it takes is alittle bit of like awareness,
that intentionality of stoppingand being like why am I doing
this?
Do I really like this?
Then you can take whateversteps you know are comfortable
(38:05):
or right for you in the moment.
But that's a big one for methat you that really these
tragedies have surfaced for me.
Like you know, you only getthis one, one life, and if
you're just on auto, onautopilot, you'll end up
(38:25):
someplace that you didn't reallywant to be.
Uh, and you can find me also onInstagram.
Uh, the podcast is at lifeintended podcast, or my personal
Instagram is at Kelly Berryfour.
And then I also have a website,kelly Berryinfo, and I have a
newsletter.
You can sign up for it there.
Christina Smith (38:36):
Beautiful.
Thank you, women, so much forbeing here.
I really appreciate all thewisdom that you've brought to
this topic.
That is really really hard totalk about for so many of us.
With that, thank you, audience,for tuning in and we'll talk to
you next week.
Welcome back to the Inviting Shift podcast.
I am excited to have you allhere to hear this conversation
about something that we don'ttalk about a lot, which is grief
, and for me I know my four dayshas been, I wouldn't say,
filled with grief, but there'sdefinitely been a lot more grief
than probably any other decadeand that's all kinds of grief
(00:22):
we're going to talk about lossof dreams, loss of people that
we love, loss of our minds,maybe in menopause, and so,
without taking too much of thistime, I just wanted to have our
guests introduce themselves.
So, steph, can you introduceyourself?
Steph Grainger (00:42):
Absolutely.
Thank you for having me.
My name is Steph Grainger and Iam in the UK.
I support women to deal with alot of the past grief that
they've experienced, in whatevercapacity that that shows up, in
order for them to be able tomove forward with their life and
allow those experiences todefine them in a really positive
(01:03):
way rather than hold them back.
Those experiences to definethem in a really positive way
rather than hold them back.
Um and I do that say for womenof any age, but typically women
that are drawn to work with meare 35 plus um so yeah, that's
me thanks.
Kelly Berry (01:16):
Yeah then, kelly thank you, I'm happy to be here.
My name is is Kelly Berry.
I am also a podcast host.
I host a podcast called LifeIntended and my podcast is all
about just bringing awareness tomostly women but how to live a
life of intention and live itwith authenticity.
(01:38):
I also am a business owner anda coach.
Work with business owners toset their vision and achieve
their business dreams, and withwomen, similar to what Steph
said.
Um, and really you, christina,too like helping women overcome,
you know, negative self-talkand a lot of limiting beliefs
(02:00):
from their past and, uh, findingout who they are and who they
want to be and helping themremove those obstacles to get
there.
Yeah, I'm in my 40s.
Also have experienced in thisdecade I'm 43, but probably the
most profound losses of my lifeto date, and some of those have
(02:20):
been the loss of people I love,but some of them have been the
other things that you describedlike unmet expectations.
So I'm excited to dive into theconversation.
Christina Smith (02:30):
Yeah, All that unmet expectations and let's
just talk about like, yeah, whatare all the different things
that we grieve?
I know just in the past yearI've grieved loss of friendship
because friends can change inyour forties, as you start aging
, and things are different.
Letting go of grieving who Iused to be right and how life
(02:55):
has kind of changed me.
There's even this menopausalgrief of like grieving that
fertility I mean not so much forme.
I'd love to flip the switchanytime, but for lots of women,
there comes up a grief aroundnot being, you know, being able
to carry a baby anymore.
Even if they didn't want tocarry another baby, they can
have that.
So there's so many differenttypes of grief.
(03:18):
What do you?
What have I missed here?
Steph Grainger (03:21):
I experienced grief when I got divorced.
I was divorced about 16 yearsago and I'm now remarried.
But that was one of the hardestexperiences and because of the
loss of the life, I expected thelife that I had anticipated for
my children as well as for methe trauma of being a child of
(03:44):
divorced parents.
I didn't want that for mychildren as well as for me.
You know the trauma of being achild of divorced parents.
I didn't want that for my kids.
So when it came to therealisation that this
relationship was not working andwe couldn't retrieve that, I
was desperately sad and verymuch grieving that loss and as
much as I didn't want him in mylife anymore, everything that
(04:05):
came with him, even grieving theloss of my in-laws.
They were still going to be inmy life.
I could no longer call mymother-in-law my mother-in-law.
You know things like that andsuch a huge sense of loss.
Everything changed how we didChristmas changed, how we did
birthdays changed, all of thatand at the time I didn't even
(04:26):
recognize it as grief.
I didn't even recognize it asgrief.
I didn't even acknowledge it tobe the grieving process.
It was very difficult tonavigate because it's not
something that people talk about.
In that sense, you don't hearpeople say I grieved when I got
divorced.
It's just to me grief was verysomeone dies, you grieve, and
that was the very firstexperience I had of grieving
something that was no longergoing to be in my life, but the
(04:48):
person was still here.
It was a very differentexperience for me.
Christina Smith (04:53):
I love that you say that because it's like this
grief of like even if we makethe choice right to get that
divorce or change our life, itdoesn't mean that we skip the
grief part right.
Like it doesn't mean thatthat's not going to happen.
Um, even if it is our choice ofwhatever happens, and that that
is also um a friendship that Ihad, that I let go of.
(05:15):
It's like that was our choicetogether and yet, at the same
time, it's still sad.
I mean, I still had ideas, justlike you, with your marriage,
had ideas of how we would growold together, or you know, and
and be laughing like old ladies,or I, um, I, I also felt the
same thing during my divorce aswell, and that was many moons
(05:39):
ago, almost 20 years ago, um,and I still, I still can see
that grief, for you know, I wishit would have turned out
differently for our son.
How about you, kelly?
Kelly Berry (05:51):
Yeah, so I think and I'm working through this
still but like grief of a lostidentity.
So I used to be a runner, atriathlete, and I'll say used to
be like I still run a littlebit, but it was my identity.
You know, I was a runner, I ranhundreds of races, an ultra
(06:14):
runner, a trail runner and justthrough different circumstances
and life changes, I'm notanymore.
So I ran like a 50 mile race atthe end of 2019, had some like
nagging injuries that I wasgetting treatment for in early
2020.
And then the pandemic happenedand my treatment stopped and
it's like my body has just neverbeen able to recover.
(06:36):
Then I got pregnant, I had ababy.
You know all of these thingsthat I'm just kind of like
grieving that I will never bethe athlete that I was and how
much like personal fulfillment Igot from that.
How do I replace that?
What does that look like?
Will I be satisfied with, likebeing less athletic than that?
(06:59):
Like, can I replace that withyoga and still get the same
thing?
You know, as my body likechanges and, you know, just
needs different things.
So I'm still figuring out likehow to navigate that.
But you know, I don't even callmyself like a runner.
It's like, well, I used to be arunner or I used to be a
triathlete, um, and that just itfeels sad.
It was a season and it was justlike a really important season
(07:22):
in my life and um, it's just, Idon't know if it'll ever come
back, you know.
Christina Smith (07:27):
I agree.
I mean I was never a runner.
That's not what I'm grieving.
But there is a part of me wheremy body just naturally stayed
healthy and I didn't have to doa lot for it.
Um, and I could, I didn'treally have to limit what I eat.
And now it seems like my bodythere's this part that feels
like my body has kind of turnedon me, and that's the acceptance
(07:54):
and the grief that I'm goingthrough is that it used to be so
easy to take care of my bodyand now there's a lot more work
to it.
I just had my morning shakewith my collagen and my maca.
I mean I didn't have to do thatbefore.
And now, if I don't do thosethings for myself, I get so much
inflammation in my body and Ihave to figure out what foods
(08:16):
trigger me and I mean that's alltaken a really long time.
So like I grieve ice cream,because I really miss ice cream,
but my body does not want it atall anymore.
Steph Grainger (08:30):
I think it comes back to that point of these.
Things weren't said or we womendidn't have the openness to
express the menopausal processlike the perimenopausal process.
It's only now, certainly in myarea of the world, that that
we're talking about this.
It's such an open subject.
Period health has been taboo.
It's something we just didamongst ourselves, and education
(08:53):
was around concealing it andhow to deal with it in a certain
way, and it feels like themenopause is the same.
Women are seen to be a certainway through that process, so
let's just not talk about it,and so there's no wisdom.
That's kind of being passeddown from women that are older
than us.
So it's almost like I'm nowlearning without having anyone
(09:16):
told me that this is normal.
You're going to feel like this,you know, and for somebody that
never experienced fat around mybelly area, like it, just
everything I eat just goes therenow and it's why.
Why is this happening to me?
And then you put yourself onridiculous diets and you're
trying to get back to where youwas before instead of embracing
(09:37):
the change and why it'shappening and all of that, and
no one really spoke about that.
So I have definitely gonethrough a grieving process of
the body that I once had, likeyou were saying, the things that
I used to be able to eat, thatnow I just look at it and I
bloat.
You know all of these thingsand it's.
I've been very resistant.
I've been very angry about it.
(09:57):
For a period I was stuck inthat phase of grief, of the
anger of it's not fair.
Why, why can't I do thesethings anymore?
Why do I ache now?
Why do I sneeze and put my backout?
You know all of those things itfelt I was in.
I was stuck in anger for a longtime and I am transitioning
through the.
I've come out of that now.
I'm moving towards acceptance,but it's just um, yeah, it's not
(10:19):
spoken about.
And if you said I'm grieving mypre-perimenopausal body, it
might have looked at you likeyou had two heads, like what are
you talking about?
You know it's.
It's a strange subject, but weneed to talk more about it.
Christina Smith (10:30):
Yeah, it used to be well, just exercise more,
you know, go do the thing.
And it's like it's more thanthat and and we don't know this
because we don't really talkabout it.
In fact, I learned the otherday that even studying periods,
like scientists study erectiledysfunction six times as much as
(10:51):
periods, even though erectiledysfunction only affects like
15% of the population, whereperiods are like 50% of the
population.
It seems really odd, let alonemenopause.
You know, studying menopauseand just that change is been um,
it's just been really rough onme and I guess I want to talk
(11:11):
about what grief looks like,right, Cause people are like,
well, what, what is grief?
Especially, I have a lot ofclients that come to me and
they're like I don't really knowwhat I'm feeling because
they've ignored their body forso long that they don't really
know the differences betweenfeelings.
And for me, grief if we werelooking at mad, sad, fear, shame
(11:32):
, joy for me grief feels like aflip-flop between sadness and
anger, like it feels like thiswar going on between like I'm
really sad that I don't havewhat I had and I'm and, and uh,
what Steph said is like it's notfair, you know, like I can feel
my inner adolescent coming outgoing.
(11:53):
it's not fair.
This is now it's supposed to be.
I'm supposed to like I've I'vehit all these goals in my life
by midlife.
It's supposed to be easy peasyfrom here on out.
And it feels just as hard to meas it did when I was an
adolescent.
And I think that kind of makessense, because when we're an
(12:15):
adolescent, we're grieving too.
We're grieving losing ourchildhood and having to step
into adulthood, and even thoughthat's something that we
definitely don't talk about, itis something that is seriously
happening as we're having allthose hormonal changes, and so I
always look at menopause aslike our second puberty, where
(12:36):
it's like it's undoing all thatstuff.
But at the same time I feelsometimes I feel just as crazy
as.
I did when I was an adolescent,and I see Kelly popping her head
.
Kelly Berry (12:48):
Yeah, I mean, you know, talking about feelings, I
just feel like in the past twoyears I've had the gamut of
feelings surrounding grief, andsome that I think were very
unexpected for me are like shame.
Some that I think were veryunexpected for me are like shame
how come I can't move throughthis or move on.
(13:11):
You know, why am I?
Why do I feel like I'm justbeing drug through this?
And you know there's a lot ofcomparison out there for
everybody and it's like why doesit seem like other people are
able to move on?
And it's like why does it seemlike other people are able to
move on?
And I'm still stuck in this,like profound sadness over a lot
of things that have happened.
(13:37):
That's one jealousy, maybe thatyou know like other people
haven't had to experience thesame things, that you know it
can just feel like back to theshame thing, like feeling so
shameful that you feel jealousof other people because they
haven't had what the next minute?
I'm so sad, so tired, justreally tired of having.
It's a lot of work to gothrough all these emotions, you
(14:14):
know, and like manage yourrelationships through it all and
a lot of other things.
So I didn't really expect tofeel shame.
I didn't expect to feel jealous.
I didn't expect to feel like Ijust needed sleep all the time.
Um, which you know.
I don't know if that's having ababy in a toddler or if that's
(14:35):
going through grief.
I'm sure it's all justcompounds.
But you know, for me those weresome of the unexpected feelings
that I've had.
Steph Grainger (14:44):
Uh, through my experiences, yeah, you were
talking about the um element offertility and like mourning the
of your fertility.
And I'm like you, I'm done,like hard, like done, and I
would love to flick that switch.
But as I'm transitioning, Iskipped a period, one month, and
I did feel this sense ofsadness Like is this the end?
(15:05):
Is this now going to be comingto an end?
Something that I've had with mefor many, many years and I've
come to accept, and she arrivesevery month.
And the only time I've had withme for many, many years and
I've come to accept and shearrives every month.
And the only time I've skippedis when a baby is coming.
So all of a sudden it's nothere.
And is this the end of me beingable to do this part of
womanhood?
And I don't want to do it.
(15:26):
I don't want to do it again.
But there was a real sadnessthat day that I was just.
I sat in it and just thoughtwhy do I feel so sad?
Like this could be the end ofmy fertility journey, and
actually there's somethingreally sad about that and I
really wanted to honor that.
But then my period came thenext month.
So it's like this rollercoaster.
No, no, you're not quite doneyet, right?
Christina Smith (15:48):
right, just like testing, you testing and I
love what you said, Kelly, aboutthis comparison, because we do
this so often and I think thatwe often forget that what we see
on Instagram is people'sInstagram lives and it's not
there behind the scenes wherethey are possibly grieving as
well.
(16:08):
And what really came up for mewas my childhood and hearing my
mother go, just put your biggirl pants on and let's go.
Like you know what I mean.
Like, why can't I just suck itup?
Is what I want to?
Is what I constantly am tellingmyself these days is, like,
just suck it up.
Yeah, menopause sucks.
You're going to have theseemotions going crazy, and
(16:31):
sometimes there's not, there'snot an explanation for it.
Sometimes it's just it is whatit is and and yeah, there's a
real part of shame for a lot ofus of just saying why can't, why
can't?
Why is it such a big deal?
Why am I getting so emotionalabout this?
Like, why is this holding meback?
(16:51):
And what else you said was abouthaving to rest more and because
you're so tired all the time,and I don't know, I don't have a
toddler or a baby and I'm tired, and there's this real part of
me that gets angry that I haveto slow down, and I get angry
that I'm not doing or gettingdone as much as I used to, and I
(17:15):
think that that would happenwith any grief, whether someone
passed or left our lives orrelationships break.
I think that what I'm learningis that I need to be a lot more
gentler with myself and rememberthat I'm human and not a robot,
even though there's parts of me.
That's like I wish I was arobot.
(17:36):
That would be so much easier.
Have somebody just program meproperly.
And so we've talked a lot aboutwhat grief looks like.
So it can look like anything.
It can also look like there'ssome little moments of joy as
well, of going oh wow, I handledthat very well, even though I
(17:56):
didn't want to or even though Idon't like that this thing
happened.
There is this relief thathappens Like even when people
pass, if they're really sick.
There's like a relief that wehave, and then we feel guilty
about having relief that thisperson passed.
And so I guess what I'm sayingis all the things are okay when
(18:19):
it comes to grief.
They're all okay and they allkind of come in this giant bag
together and we don't reallyescape them.
But what is it that we can dowhile we're grieving in order to
, I guess, just be kinder toourselves?
Steph Grainger (18:35):
I think for me it is.
It is that it's exactly thatwhen I notice it's coming up, I
will show myself kindness andcompassion, and I'm so used to
as a woman, being so emotionallyresilient and being able to do
this and then be doing this andbe doing that.
And one thing that this phaseof my life has shown me is that
(18:56):
you can't, but neither shouldyou want to be doing all of
these things anymore, andthere's there's so much in
slowing down and showingyourself grace and all of those
things.
It's.
It's been a little bit I'vebeen.
It's taken a little while for meto catch up, but, um, I now
listen more and I'll sit down ifI need to sit down, or I will
(19:16):
say no now instead of saying yesand hoping that it will work
out fine.
I'm very boundaried now with myyeses because I know that the
weight of doing that is going totake me longer to recover and
actually do I really want to doit in the first place when
something else needs me?
So I'm showing myself grace alot more and it goes against the
(19:38):
grain, but I'm slowly catchingup to actually that's okay.
Now it is okay to do yeah.
Kelly Berry (19:44):
I think, for me vulnerability.
So I spent a lot of my lifebeing fine.
I'm okay, not really lettingpeople in, but always being a
good listener for others, takingon other people's problems,
coaching them through or justbeing there for them, but never
(20:09):
allowing anybody in my life toreciprocate that for me.
And it wasn't until I neededsomebody to do that that it kind
of had this awakening.
Well, the reason that nobody isbanging down my door asking how
they can help me is becauseI've never let anybody help me
and so really gettingcomfortable, getting really
(20:32):
uncomfortable.
So if my husband's like, how areyou, you know, I will now say
you know, I'm really sad, like I, I am really, really sad right
now, instead of being like I'mgood.
And and I'm good is the waythat I answered that question
for basically my whole life, mywhole life, and I just realized,
(20:56):
you know, that's what has keptfriendships more on like the
shallow side than the deep side,and so I've really tried to
open up more, let people seethat you know I'm not okay
sometimes or like this, justreally freaking sucks and I'm
having a really hard time and,um, you know I feel sadness a
lot and you know all it sucks,but it's also okay that I feel
(21:20):
this way and to be able to talkabout it with more people and,
um, just let people know that Ijust I need somebody to check on
me, like I've been checking onthem for so long.
Christina Smith (21:30):
I love, how you're like to tell them that
you know to let them know, hey,this is.
This door is open now and Ireally need the help rather than
whereas.
Before what I heard was, um,that you shut that off, and it
really brought up something forme, which is, um, in my forties
well, I guess in my thirties mylate thirties is when I started
um, when I started going towomen's circles and well, around
(21:54):
the world it's a womanwithinorg, in case anybody is
interested in a woman's circlebut those women's circles are
about being able to bringanything and not being judged
and just being kind of heldspace for, and that has been so
amazing for my grief, because Ican bring the tears and it
(22:18):
doesn't, it's not off-putting toanyone.
Or I can bring the anger, andthat's not off-putting to anyone
, and I'm able to share that andget the support that I need in
a really safe space.
So that's one way.
And what else I was picking upfrom what both of you were
saying is like this mindfulnesspiece, right Of just being like,
(22:40):
ooh, this is where I am today,and so how can I give myself
grace today If I'm having areally rough day, which I am
honestly having the roughest day, although you can't tell,
because I have these beautifulwomen here with me and I've been
loving talking to them, butjust giving myself grace and
(23:01):
saying, yeah, with my menopausalbrain.
Sometimes when I'm recording apodcast, there's words that
don't come up, that I want tocome up right away and they
won't do it.
And I don't feel as smart as Idid before, even though I know I
actually have more wisdom now,and it's that mindfulness that
(23:22):
it slows me down a little bit.
But who's to say that's a badthing?
I almost feel like that's onpurpose, right?
Like maybe menopause is here onpurpose, to like be like hey,
it's, it's time for you just tobe more mindful, to be more
conscious of what, what you'redoing with your energy and what
(23:44):
you're allowing in, what you'renot allowing in and how you're,
um, how I am reacting to allthat.
So in that tiredness right, Itry to find the gifts of yeah,
I'm tired because I need to slowdown and listen to my body.
I'm tired because I haven'tbeen listening to my body and
(24:04):
I've been pushing myself way toohard, and there's a lot of
wisdom that comes with that forme.
One of the things that I oftendo with my clients is something
called a dream funeral, which islike Steph and I were
discussing divorces.
When I got a divorce right,there was all this stuff that my
(24:29):
life wasn't going to look theway that I wanted it to right.
That fairy tale that, happilyever after, was just not going
to look the way that I wanted itto write.
That fairy tale that I thathappily ever after was just not
going to look the way that Iwanted it to, and it's not.
It's not like, um, people arelike oh well, you can have
anything you want.
Well, no, because oncesomething like that happens,
there are dreams that are takenout of there, and it's not
(24:49):
necessarily a bad thing, but itis something that I identified
myself with right Within thismarriage, and now I'm pulling
that identity away, and so adream funeral is about just that
, about putting all of ourdreams.
I often have my clients put themin like a little box.
(25:10):
Write all your dreams down thatare no longer going to happen,
put them in a box and then burythat box and have, literally,
have a little funeral for yourdreams, so that you have a place
to let them go.
Some people will burn them.
You know cremation.
Um, I like to have a boxbecause then I have a place to
go back to, because, as we know,just because you grieve at once
(25:33):
does not mean like, oh, allbetter, I cried once and now I
no longer feel that way.
But it gives us a space to goback to and, like, release more
of those dreams as they come,because I feel like I don't know
anybody who hasn't had grief inwaves.
Like there's people who show upto work, like the next week
(25:55):
after maybe a parent passes orsomething, but that doesn't mean
that those waves of grief aregoing to go away, and I think
that that can be.
What's so irritating for somepeople is that they go on and on
and on, and so I know, kelly,you've had a lot of loss in your
life.
How is it that you manage allthose waves that come?
(26:19):
Yeah, as best as I can.
Kelly Berry (26:22):
Yeah, right, the way that I can.
You know I there is kind of alot, you know, I will say up
until probably like my midthirties I would I would
describe my experience withgrief as very like normal circle
of life.
You know, I've had grandparentsthat passed away all well into
their eighties, um, some likeother family members, illnesses,
(26:47):
but you know I, I didn't reallyknow how to handle grief as an
adult because I hadn't had likea close, profound loss.
So when they started happeningand specifically, you know, I
will say maybe eight years ago,you know some, some profound
losses in mine and my husband'slife that just escalated up
(27:11):
until about 2021.
My grandfather passed away.
Then I had, like, my highschool soccer coach was murdered
.
I had a friend tragically hitby a car.
You know, my sister and herfamily suffered a loss of a
friend to COVID and then, Imentioned to you all, my best
friend was diagnosed withglioblastoma and she passed away
(27:33):
a year later.
So in a very small amount oftime, I not only had like close
losses, but some of them wereextremely tragic and sudden and
it was all such like newterritory for me, and so one of
the biggest helpers was atherapist, um, talking to
(27:54):
somebody who can help me, whoyou know I mentioned I hadn't
been very vulnerable, so Ineeded somebody that I could
practice this with and, um, whowas really like trained to help
me navigate all of thesefeelings.
Um, but I just even to Steph'spoint like I started saying no
to a lot of things, um, you knoweven things that I knew would
(28:16):
probably help me in the moment.
You know like, no, I'm notgoing to the gym today.
No, I'm not gonna.
I'm going to cancel thesemeetings or or whatever, like
really protecting myself, um,and the things that I was
exposed to and how much like thecapacity I would let kind of
like expand in my life.
(28:37):
And so therapy was a big one.
I also joined a women's circlein 2022.
That was amazing.
I'm actually partnering nowwith that facilitator and we're
starting a women's circle nextweek actually in our local area
(28:58):
and talk to and you know, don'thave the expectation that you're
going to show up as your bestself all the time.
You're showing up like how youare, and the same like I'll give
a ton of credit to my husband,like he understands, he's also a
coach, he is a listener, hekind of can like feel where I am
(29:22):
when I'm there.
He kind of can like feel whereI am when I'm there and will
always just offer, like you know, a way to think about things or
look at things.
That can help you put it intoperspective, because grief can
(29:47):
also just be so overwhelmingthat you feel like, uh, you're
just really close with and andknows you really well.
Christina Smith (29:53):
Hmm, that support is so important.
I think I don't even know whatI would do if I had gone the
last 11, 12, 15 years without awomen's circle.
I often have several of them atany particular time because
they've just been so helpful,because I think in my grief I
(30:15):
know I want to isolate and Iknow that that's sometimes
helpful and not always helpful.
And so knowing that I don't haveto isolate, like I can show up
as I am, like you said, and thatI'm going to be accepted.
I think it's so different, likeit's one of the gifts of
getting older for me, becausewhen I was young I went to lots
(30:38):
of different high schoolsbecause but we just moved a lot
and so I didn't trust women whenI was younger, because in high
school there was like a lot ofmean girls and they were at
every school, so I didn't reallytrust women.
And so if you're one of thosewomen listening to this and
going, I don't know how I'd feel.
My first women's weekend, I satin a room with 60 women.
(31:02):
Wish they were men, because menwould have been easier to
handle for me, and that's when Ifirst realized I didn't trust
women.
Um, but as I started being held, having space held for me by
women, I started to really trustthem.
And what I love about circle islike there's guidelines, there's
agreements to how we show up incircle, that we're not going to
(31:25):
judge each other, that we arethere to do the deep work, um,
where I feel like there's stillso many groups of women who try
to avoid that and stay on theshallow side and I I find myself
like not wanting to be in thosekinds of circles anymore, um,
and really wanting the deeprelationships, um.
So support is like essentialand, yes, therapy as well as has
(31:50):
been very, very useful to me.
Um, even as a coach, I go inand out of having a therapist
because I want to keep myselfclear too.
Steph Grainger (31:59):
You know, like I can't, I can't hold that space
for other women unless I'm alsoactually doing the work, like so
I'm just nodding furiously awayhere because, um, the most
profound grief I've everexperienced is the loss of my
sister, um, and that is a griefthat will be with me forever and
all grief is but it.
(32:19):
It defined me in such apowerful way and for a long time
, in an unhelpful way, because Iwas so young.
She was 17.
I was 19.
I have an older brother, whowas about 21 at the time, but it
shows up in all areas of mylife.
It shows up when I have mychildren, it showed up when I
(32:39):
got married.
It shows up when I see sisterswith their children playing
together and I have, like I say,my brother and he has children
as well and we are very close.
But I think most recently it'sresurfaced because our dad is
unwell.
He is seeing out the last days,weeks of his life and she's not
here again.
So it's again.
(33:01):
You know it been gosh nearly 30years since she, since she
passed, but it it shows upconsistently through big
milestones in our life thatshe's just not present.
So sometimes it takes yourbreath away.
Sometimes you didn't see itcoming, and other times you know
it's coming, um, and it's howyou support yourself when it
shows um, and I and I have gotreally good now at naming it and
(33:24):
allowing it and my default isto get in my car and drive to
the sea and stand on the beachand just let it come at me and
let it go at the same time.
But it's taken me quite a longtime to do that.
But women's circles have justtransformed my life.
I think being in circle withwomen, possibly around 14 years
(33:47):
ago, was the first time Ifinally found a place.
I fit, um, and that's how Iwould explain it because, like
you were saying, christine, aschool for me again didn't fit,
didn't know where I.
You know some mean girls.
I tried to stay in that campbecause you felt safer there
than you did, if you, you know,removed yourself.
But when I sat in circle forthe first time, I was like,
(34:09):
finally, finally, here's a groupof women that are just kind to
each other and I have been inmany since then and I
continually sit in circlebecause it just it's so
refreshing Like I have anincredible husband and the same
I go to therapy regularly, butsisterhood has been a game
(34:29):
changer for me, yeah, and it'snot in our natural DNA to be so
kind to each other.
Christina Smith (34:37):
Unfortunately, it's actually in our DNA to be
more about women's relationships, and I can't remember who wrote
it, but you can go look it up,great.
Well, yeah, we could probablyhave this conversation all day,
of course, and we don't have allday, so I'm going to have us
each close out with one piece ofwisdom, and if you also want to
(34:59):
share how people can connectwith you in case they want to
reach out to you, that would begreat.
My one piece of wisdom, andjust allow it to be okay
wherever you are, just allow itto.
You're sad today?
Great, be sad today.
You're angry day?
Great, be angry today.
And whatever it is, just allowit to pass through you, because
(35:23):
there's so many times I'vewanted to like, stomp it down
and be like, oh, we can't bethat way today.
Put on the happy face and thenI and I feel like I have been
stuffed and I don't feel myselfand I'm not also not hearing the
wisdom of what the feelings aretrying to bring to me.
(35:43):
So, with that staff, can youcheck out with a little wisdom
and how people can reach you?
Steph Grainger (35:50):
Absolutely.
I think the biggest lesson Ilearned was boundaries, and I
learned that the hard way, butonce I started to look at my
boundaries and implement them,it meant that I felt so much
safer with with what I was doing.
So I would always say noticethe areas of your life where
you're giving too much andyou're depleting yourself and
(36:13):
think about how you can put someboundaries in place.
Um, I read a on the back of oneof my friends bathroom doors
and it said say more as in saythe word no more so that it
gives your yeses more power.
And I loved that and that wasabout 15 years ago.
I read that and it stayed withme and I just think what you
know saying yes all the time, itdepowers you completely.
(36:36):
So I would, I would say thatboundaries and, yeah, checking
that, but you can find me onInstagram.
It's probably where I hang outthe most at.
I am Steph Granger and you canfind me at stephgrangercouk.
Christina Smith (36:50):
Thank you, thank you, and those links will
be down below as well, so thatpeople can easily click on them.
And Kelly.
Kelly Berry (36:58):
Yeah.
So I think my wisdom is topause and take notice when you
are living in autopilot.
And I say that because I thinkthat a lot of us are just in
this habit of letting life passus by staying busy, and really,
(37:19):
that we're doing things thatdon't bring us joy or that we
don't love, and we don't reallystop to take notice of that,
because it's just what we do,it's it's what our life looks
like, it's it's this likepattern that we've gotten
ourselves in, but it can lead todoing things that are really
misaligned with who you are andwhat you want.
(37:39):
And so then you find yourself,you know, way down the road,
very far from where you thoughtyou'd be or where you wanted to
be, and and all it takes is alittle bit of like awareness,
that intentionality of stoppingand being like why am I doing
this?
Do I really like this?
Then you can take whateversteps you know are comfortable
(38:05):
or right for you in the moment.
But that's a big one for methat you that really these
tragedies have surfaced for me.
Like you know, you only getthis one, one life, and if
you're just on auto, onautopilot, you'll end up
(38:25):
someplace that you didn't reallywant to be.
Uh, and you can find me also onInstagram.
Uh, the podcast is at lifeintended podcast, or my personal
Instagram is at Kelly Berryfour.
And then I also have a website,kelly Berryinfo, and I have a
newsletter.
You can sign up for it there.
Christina Smith (38:36):
Beautiful.
Thank you, women, so much forbeing here.
I really appreciate all thewisdom that you've brought to
this topic.
That is really really hard totalk about for so many of us.
With that, thank you, audience,for tuning in and we'll talk to
you next week.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.