Breaking Free from Nice Guy Syndrome: Harrison Saunders on Living Authentically

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What happens when your entire identity is built around being the 'nice guy' who never rocks the boat? Harrison Saunders, host of the Growth Voyage podcast, knows this territory all too well. In this raw, illuminating conversation, Harrison reveals how a devastating wake-up call at age 19 began his journey away from people-pleasing and toward authentic living.

Behind the nice guy mask often lies deep-seated shame, frustration, and a profound disconnection from one's true self. Harrison unpacks how childhood experiences—particularly his parents' divorce when he was six—shaped his people-pleasing tendencies and desperate need for external validation. "I wasn't voicing my annoyances," he explains. "I would shove it down, build resentment, and what happens with resentment is that it never leaves your body."

The turning point came when Harrison recognized himself as the common denominator in his recurring relationship patterns. This crucial realization shifted him from victim mentality to creator consciousness—a transformation that changed everything. Through disciplines like Thai boxing, pro wrestling, and consistent self-development, Harrison gradually built genuine self-confidence rather than the facade he'd previously maintained.

Most powerfully, Harrison shares practical strategies for breaking free from nice guy syndrome: testing boundaries in low-stakes situations, surrounding yourself with people who "call you forward," and reconnecting with your authentic self beneath the layers of conditioning. The reward? Genuine relationships, clear purpose, and the freedom of being loved for who you truly are.

Whether you're struggling with people-pleasing tendencies or simply want to live more authentically, this conversation offers both inspiration and actionable wisdom. As Harrison puts it: "When you become proud of the person you've become, you stop looking for external approval."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I think the nice guy doesn't know what he values.
This is why in conversations hewas conflicted.
I remember I had a lot oftrouble because when debates
would come up and when thesecertain scenarios happening, I
never questioned oh hang on,what do I actually want to do
here?
And I had so much indecision Iwas like I really struggled with
making decisions and it wasbecause I didn't know my value.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hello and welcome to the James Gresham podcast.
This week's guest is the hostof the Growth Voyage podcast, a
show dedicated to supporting menin their personal development
through the raw, relatableconversations he has, after a
major shift at 19, began his ownjourney and his own deep inner
work, ultimately confronting andovercoming nice guy syndrome.

(00:45):
This week's guest is none otherthan Harrison Saunders.
Welcome to the show.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
Thank you, james, really really good to be here.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Harrison, I love this idea of the nice guy syndrome.
I'm sure a lot of people mayhave heard of it, but you know,
laugh it off.
But there's some like undertone, some serious dark undertone to
it, and why not just start atthe beginning and then we can
under understand this absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
I mean, like all experiences, it begins at a
young age, at school, alwaysfeeling like I was different
from everybody else, I alwaysfound it very difficult to fit
in.
I had this perception thatthere was something wrong with
me, that, yeah, just no matterhow hard I tried, I just
couldn't find any sort of deepconnections, anyone who could

(01:33):
reconnect with me.
Maybe, if I was lucky, I couldget maybe one or two best
friends, but then I'd be hidingfrom everybody else and from a
young age I, yeah, I think,carried quite a lot of shame and
at the same time, was also veryhappy.
In many ways I was veryprivileged.
From my understanding, it was avery privileged upbringing,

(01:56):
right?
I grew up in, yeah, in a greathouse sorry, north London and I
grew up, but what happened was Ihad low self-esteem from a
young age.
But as I got into my teens 14,15, 16, 17 something started to
change.
I started to get attentionsomehow.

(02:19):
Maybe it was through sports, asa goalkeeper, maybe it was from
female validation attention,and so what I'd done is I,
around the age of 15, 16, notonly was I getting that
attention, but I startedthinking about okay, how can I
build an identity for myself.
So I went to the gym, I builtup confidence, really enjoyed

(02:42):
that, did it all for thephysical, aesthetic reasons, and
then I sort of built this egoin my head, right.
And then what happened was I wasstill underneath all the layers
.
I was still finding it verytricky to connect with people,
even though in my mind I wasbeing genuine, I was loving.
How could anyone not just loveme, and why is it so difficult

(03:07):
to make friendships?
However, on the surface, I wasgetting on okay and what
happened was at the age of 19,.
I was in this on and offrelationship with this girl and
it was very exciting, right.
It was like my ego had hit anall-time high because in the
past it was okay.

(03:27):
Well, I get all this femaleattention from women, so
suddenly I've become important.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
I've become getting all the validation that you felt
you weren't getting in youryounger years exactly right,
that's it, you're coming at aculmination point.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
Well, I didn't know that.
Right in my mind I just thoughtoh well, you know who like you,
don't know, because it's yourbelief system.
So for me it was just okay.
This is me.
I'm confident.
Now I can get anything I want,even though that wasn't always
the case.
But in this instance, in mymind, I'd hit, hit the top.
So I was in a really excitingsituation, relationship, however

(04:03):
you want to call it on and off,and that for me, on the surface
, was great.
However, underneath it all, inthis first relationship, I had
somewhat serious.
I wasn't really myself.
I built this ego, this identity.
I was very quiet, I was nice,very easygoing, and I had this

(04:27):
perception in my mind that I hadto be the chilled guy, the
easygoing guy, and I didn't haveany boundaries.
There were some things thatreally annoyed me, but in my
mind my perception was oh no,I've got to be the nice guy.
I can't, I don't want to belike other people who are loud
and cocky and rude and shouty.

(04:48):
So no, if something's annoyingme, hang on that's, you know,
that's I can't make it, I can'tsay anything.
But no, I can't do that.
And so I found myself in thistoxic pattern where we were on
and off and it just it wasn'treally a fit right and that's
okay.
But I kept on going back intothe same situation.
Now what happened was I was at ahouse party and I believe it

(05:11):
was her house party, herfriend's house party, but she
was living there and, bearing inmind, at this point, I still
thought, okay, I'm the guy, I'mthe guy who runs the place, I
can get any woman I want.
And I was at this house party.
I'd taken fair few drugs, lotsof alcohol.
I was feeling on top of theworld, I was dancing with my
mates and for me it was greatbecause I knew at the end of the

(05:35):
night I'd go back with thisgirl and that would be.
That, for me, was always thehighlight of the night.
If I could go back with someone, then, yeah, that's a success,
then you will be loved, I willbe loved, I'll be, you will be
loved, right?
yeah, you'll be like I've got itall, okay, and then and then
I'm going around looking for herand I'm thinking, oh, I can't

(05:55):
see her.
Where is this girl, where'sthis girl?
And then I'm looking.
I'm looking and I'm like, oh,where is she?
Where is she?
And then I feel my heart ratestarting to speed up.
I'm starting to, I'm lookingand I'm like, oh, where is she?
Where is she?
And then I feel my heart ratestarting to speed up.
I'm starting to get a bitanxious.
And then I'm in the bathroomand I hear somebody say, oh,
where's this girl?
And someone replied oh, she'sin her bedroom with this guy.

(06:17):
And I remember I heard that andI froze, I thought, oh my gosh.
And then my heart rate just gotreally, really fast.
And then suddenly it's like mywhole world just went upside
down and I couldn't comprehendwhat was happening and I was so

(06:39):
upset, angry, just shocked.
I was shocked more thananything.
My Hiko took such a beating.
So then I went back home and Iwent back to my place I was
staying at and I sat there and Iwas like, oh my god, what is
this?
Is this?
So this is what depression mustbe like.
It was like this cloud above methat I just couldn't.

(07:00):
I just couldn't get through andit was like, oh my gosh, I'm
gonna stay like this forever,like this is frightening, this
is crazy.
And that was the moment thattransformed my life and from
then on, I always say this I amso grateful for that moment
because I had the wake-up callthat would then lead me down a
huge path of self-developmentand self-discovery, because the

(07:24):
wound is where the light enters.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
And really, when he says that, the persian poet
roomie, what he's really tryingto say and it's tough is,
especially when you're young andyou're having to deal with this
I had a something similar atthe age of 19 and had a car
crash is that light needs toenter to crack the masked self
open without it, you're notgonna get exactly.

(07:50):
You need to crack the ego openso far so that the light can
enter and it can begin to heal.
In Japanese, they have thisbeautiful pottery of all these
smashed pieces, but when theyglue them back together again,
they call them it's.
It's a, it's an art, but it'salso like there's like very

(08:12):
cared for and treasured, becausewhen things are cracked and you
hand them back together again,they've got more value and it's
a bit like the human spirit.
Sometimes you find the mosttogether.
People have gone through somesignificant painful suffering
experiences and come out theother side because you recognize

(08:34):
that through that pain andsuffering you grow, you realize
what's important, you realizewhat isn't important and then
you can have compassion forother people who are going
through tough times absolutely,and on on that point you're not
going to have that wake-up call.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
I think without it and exactly as you were saying,
when you rebuild, you can buildstronger foundations.
Now, and I'm sure you willagree with me, happening at the
age of 19 is such a blessing.
That's what I say to guys whoare my age or younger, are
struggling.
It's just like wow, what ablessing.
Some people don't get thismoment until 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
Sometimes it's on their deathbed, so it's a real
blessing yeah, this question isis that you may have that
challenge, but what are yougoing to do with it?
How are you going to rebuildand are you going to come from
hopefully a steady place,because your foundations are
shaking?
At that moment, I had a carcrash at 19 and I went through
the windscreen and the car wasupside down and nothing happened

(09:37):
to my face.
I got some glass on my back andthat was it.
But when I walked away fromthat experience, I thought
number one how am I still alive?
And then number two is whateverI've been thinking and all my
actions, I mean I've been soselfish it's a joke and I've
just been thinking about merather than there is more to

(10:00):
life than just me that's reallyinteresting.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
So for you, did you have an identity crisis, or was
it more just okay, I'm stuckwith my thoughts.
Now I'm left with nothing butmy thoughts, and then you can't
avoid it because you're not busydoing anything well when you
feel well, anybody going throughany, everyone's going through
something.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
But it just takes a realization that maybe your
actions aren't in harmony withyour thinking and you're
expecting more from life ratherthan giving to life.
I've come to the, the place inmy life now where it's time to
give, not take, and it's likewhat can I give?
How can I help?
Where can I show up?
What can I do?

(10:43):
That's a bit different thanmaybe give to me, but that's
kind of like what you need as achild.
As a child in those youngeryears, it's like I'm hopefully
have some type of guardians orparents that are able to direct
you.
But the fact of the matter isis that you're dealing with
parents who are doing the bestthey can with what they know.

(11:04):
And this generation where we'rein now is really interesting
because more people are awake,more people are conscious, more
people are spiritually mindedthat there might be something
else going on, and then, indoing so, they're trying to heal
their own challenges and findhappiness, joy, love and
laughter, which is on the flipside of pain and suffering.

(11:25):
Right, so you can't find greatjoy without having deep sadness.
So it's a real like flip.
So you know we're all wantingsomething from life, but I I had
an interview with a guy calledneil donald walsh and he says
it's not about you, it's aboutthe lives you touch and that's
the purpose of what you're doingwith the growth void podcast,
is the purpose of what you'redoing with the Growth Void
podcast, it's the purpose ofwhat we're doing here on the

(11:47):
Super Soul Model series and it'sour challenges and how we come
back which is the real story.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
Absolutely.
And I feel as though I'vereflected on this and I'm
starting to come to the ideathat we all kind of have to go
through this journey.
The first one is, as you weresaying, we grow up believing the
whole world revolves around usand we almost have to chase
success.
We have to almost reach thatsuccess or die chasing it, to

(12:15):
realize actually, no, hang on,that's not what it's all about.
And I think it's really reallydifficult when you have that
belief system, right, you hear,because I remember listening to
all the podcasts, right, and itwas listening to these
billionaires and saying how oldmoney doesn't make you happy,
and you'll read all the commentsand they're saying, oh, it's
easy for him to save, uh, youknow when he's got money, but

(12:36):
it's only when you chase successyourself.
You don't even have to feel itfully, but even just on that
journey and realize, actually,hang on a sec.
There must be something more tothis, because it's all based of
some external validation,societal conditioning, and I
believe perhaps everybody on thepath to spiritual growth has to

(12:58):
go through that journey.
Exactly, right, exactly,realize it's not for them.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
It's so funny.
We need internal validationmore than external validation.
We need, like harrison, to havehis own self-validation.
Well done, harrison.
You did well there.
Buddy, I like the way youhandled that conflict.
I like the way you handledthose challenges.
I like the way you showed upfor yourself and put some
healthy boundaries in place whenit wasn't easy and I hadn't,
you hadn't previously done thatbefore.
That's the validation you needand you know well done for

(13:23):
showing up and you hadn'tpreviously done that before.
That's the validation you need,and you know well done for
showing up and doing anotherepisode and having that guess in
and asking the tough questionsand still showing up, even on
those days when you really don'tfeel like showing up.
That's the validation.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
Absolutely.
And I think that's an importantpoint as well, because I went
through my journey believing, ohno.
When I came to theserealizations, it was no, you
can't have anything external,it's all internal, it's all
internal, it's all you.
But it's like I'm gonna say, weall evolved from tribes.
It's a human requirement tohave some form of tribe and we

(13:59):
yeah, I think we, I think we, weneed that and it's normal to
want that.
But that was very late for meto understand that.
I always thought it had to beinternal.
But I think that's a greatpoint.
Is that?
No, it's okay if you want that.
But okay, what type ofvalidation is it?
Is it to do with your character, how you showed up in the world
, as you were alluding to before?

(14:19):
Are you showing up as a kindperson?
Are you putting your boundariesin place?
Are you a great example forother people?

Speaker 2 (14:26):
so I think that's it's not easy because it takes
it takes discipline and and Iwas the most ill-disciplined
person, um, but it's part of thejourney.
But, like what I want to knowabout your journey and you know
the listeners are in everyone'sgoing through something, but how
did you come out of that?
How did you confront that niceguy syndrome and how did you

(14:49):
actually discover what that was?
And perhaps I'll probably callit people pleasing, I don't know
, but how did you discover thatand step away from that identity
that?
Perhaps you falsely created,that, perhaps you falsely
created.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
Yeah, it's important to mention that.
It didn't happen overnight,certainly not.
I stayed in the same cycles fora while after that, Even though
that was the wake-up call.
I think sometimes the universeis going to keep on giving you
the same lesson over and overuntil you really understand it.
So for a long time it was thisvictimization, right, the focus

(15:25):
was on this, this girl.
And then I came to peace.
Wouldn't say it in the wrongway, but my perception of the
time was okay, no, like she'stroubled, she's had her trauma,
probably, and she's done this,but it was all still.
The focus was all outward.
So it was only when I repeatedthe same similar cycles with

(15:45):
other female interactions whereI was like, oh, hang on a sec,
there's a certain dynamichappening here.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
I'm did you actually notice, did you witness it
yourself going this same thing'shappening again?

Speaker 1 (15:57):
yes, and I had to do that a couple times where I
thought there's an imbalancehere.
I'm chasing something and I'mnot being respected, but I'm
allowing it, and then that'sthat got me really thinking.
Okay, hang on, I must be thecommon denominator here I love
that.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
That is such a wonderful bit of awakening and
consciousness.
I know that because I had thatexperience.
It's like it must be me all the.
There's a guy who, uh, I reallylike who I follow.
His name's randy gage, and hesaid that I was always caught in
the middle of a problem and hegoes wherever there was a
problem.
I was there, so he goes, itmust be me.

(16:32):
And I had exactly the samething.
I was like why are these thingshappening?
I was like it can't be anyoneelse, it must be me, and I love
the way that you go.
I'm the common denominator.
So what happened after thatwhen you figured that out?

Speaker 1 (16:45):
well, once I figured that out, it was clear I had to
put boundaries in place.
I looked up people pleasingwhat it actually meant.
I started to practice onlow-stakes scenarios and I
thought, okay, can I speak?

Speaker 2 (16:57):
to my mind, what's a low-stakes scenario?

Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, I would say even a simple one, right?
Let's say we're talking and yousay something that I don't
necessarily agree with.
The common thing the peoplepleaser does is to just agree,
right, it's like, oh, okay, yeah, no, I agree with that, whereas
in reality you're thinking,hang on, I'll say that's not
right.
But then you, you're endorsingthis behavior.
Now it can be quite a big jump,I think.

(17:21):
If you're thinking right, I'mgoing to suddenly put boundaries
in place with a sibling, afamily member, a best friend,
and that carries a lot of risk,and I really appreciate now that
that can be a big jump for somepeople if you're not used to
that.
So I just say, right, lowstakes scenario if you go to the
pub not my thing anymore, butmaybe it's someone you meet at a
pub or a night out could youpractice setting a boundary

(17:42):
there.
Maybe someone's talking tooclose to your face, could you
just take a step back and go oh,excuse me, excuse me, mate.
And then naturally I thinkyou'll build up a bit of
confidence there, just gettingthose tiny, tiny reps in.
So that's what I did.
I started on nights out justpracticing these small
conversations, challengingpeople's ideas and just slowly

(18:03):
building up confidence.
But then I started to think,actually, who actually am I?
Who am I beneath all theselayers and am I proud of the way
I'm showing up?
And I thought, right, I justwant to become someone who I can
be proud of.
So it was all about discipline,confidence.
I'd mentioned the gym before,but I took that to another level

(18:25):
.
I competed in Thai boxing.
I really tested myself.
I would go um, I would sign upfor a fight and in the lead-up
it was very serious.
It was four times a weektraining.
I'd maybe run five kilometersin under 20 minutes and I was
running, yeah, amazing I wastraining straight after that, so
I really just became a hero formyself.

(18:45):
I showed up every day, I lookedin the mirror, said my
affirmations and started.
What affirmations and startedbuilding a life.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
What affirmations did you say?
It's always good to knowbecause, see, when people are
just cracking open from theunconscious behaviour and
thinking, oh, I'm the commondenominator, the bad stuff and
the good stuff, it's always me.
And what I really admire thatyou mentioned earlier is you're
like I'm not the victim.
And that's really tough becauseas soon as you can drop out of

(19:15):
that, I'm the victim to, I'm thecreator, and whether I know it
or not, I'm creating myexperience.
Even if I'm doing itunconsciously or by default, I'm
still doing it.
And if you can get there, ifyou can get to that really at
the edge, if you can get to that, it's the, it's a home run from
there because you're free, thenif you can't get there if you

(19:40):
think now the world's still outto get me, or those people
aren't safe, or you knowwhatever, or it's always
happening to me well.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
This is why I I really believe that we need to
surround ourselves with goodpeople, right, people who will
hold you accountable, whereaswith the nice guy, often what he
will do is because he'soperating at a certain frequency
or energy level, he tends tohang out with people who are on
that same frequency, right, andbecause you've got low
self-worth, you're looking forexternal validation.

(20:10):
You will shrink yourself andthey'll reinforce your own
habits, and so when you are outof alignment, when you are
operating from this victimmentality, they won't call you
out.
They'll maybe, yeah, they'llencourage these behaviors, right
, and so this is why surroundingyourself with, if it's not a
coach, just someone who inspiresyou, a good, embodied man, can

(20:32):
encourage you to takeresponsibility, put your
boundaries in place, call youforward, right so it's really
difficult to surround yourselfwith good people if you're in
that frequency because they'renot on your vibe.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yes, so the only thing that I've noticed in this
modern age which is great ispodcasts, is YouTube videos is
actually spelling it out.
That's really important, and ifyou can actually put yourself
in an environment where you cangain greater confidence, then
that's great.
Or go and get a mentor who willpull you up, Because a great

(21:07):
mentor won't come down to yourlevel.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
They'll stay there yeah, and I I do believe,
because my big thing was rightyou've got to change your
environment, right.
So for me it was getting out ofthis university environment.
I was lucky enough to have ayear abroad and, yeah, meet new
people who wouldn't sort of yeahI could feel like I could be
myself authentically with.
But I think a big part of it isactually going okay.

(21:32):
You know what?
It's not necessary?
It's not always about yourenvironment.
If you can't change yourenvironment, if you find
yourself in your situation likeyou're alluding, to listen to
some podcasts, read some books,just read, read 10 minutes a day
, just 10 minutes of anyself-help book and yeah, some
books I think are like gamechangers, right.
But I think just being exposedto these ideas I think will

(21:56):
expand your mind a bit and getyou thinking differently.
I think that's the, that'sreally the key there, so you can
change your environmentanywhere.

Speaker 2 (22:03):
I think that's important, an important point to
mention I like the the way youmentioned a little earlier.
You were trying to get out ofthese layers.
Now, those layers, everybodyfeels as though they're certain
layers to me.
What do you mean by thoselayers?
And then, what I liked that yousaid about that, it was like I
want to know who am I underneathall of that, because I think

(22:24):
that there's something brilliantthat you did with that
understanding there.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
Yes.
So the way I can articulatethis is because you, I still
held so much shame over who Iwas as a kid, so I was building
up all these character traitsand I was becoming so far
disconnected from who I actuallywas.
So, yeah, absolutely, builddiscipline, go to the gym, do
hard stuff, build up theseincredible character traits that

(22:50):
no one can take away from you.
However, are you stillconnected to yourself?
Can you still love yourself?
Underneath it all?
And a lot of the time, I thinkwe use that experience, these
experiences as childhood, as bigdriving forces, but we're still
disconnected.
We're.
We want to be as so far awayfrom that child as possible,

(23:10):
which is where I think.
When I started looking outwardly, that's where I started to gain
more answers about my layers,because I was very internal.
I was in my head think aboutthe man I wanted to become.
But when I wanted to startlooking outwardly and start
thinking, okay, what can I learnfrom other people?
Where are my triggers?
What am I?
Why am I?

(23:31):
Why don't I like this guy?
Why am I sort of being madeuncomfortable by this guy?
And I started toying with theseideas and I thought, hang on,
I'm projecting something here.
I'm projecting something, andthat gave me the idea that, okay
, hang on.
When I found out that triggersare your teachers, that's when I
started thinking, yeah, somethings, some things.

(23:55):
Something is hiding underneathhere and that's when I really
started to think.
Right, let's reconnect toharrison.
Underneath all the layers,underneath all these nice guy
masks, this stoic mask and thatwas the stoicism was a whole
other journey as well so can Ijust ask it without getting too

(24:15):
personal, just in a general what?

Speaker 2 (24:17):
what makes you feel the shame when you're a kid,
that you bring it into yourearly life because everybody's
thinking, god, I feel guilty orI've got shame or I'm anxious.
But there's a reason why wefelt like that and have brought
it.
I believe, like everyone is achild made into an adult body
and you're still carrying aroundlike your techniques that you

(24:37):
used to do as a child.
But I noticed with myself afterlike two decades of daily
meditation, like all thesethings just came up to the
surface.
I was like hang on a minute,this isn't right.
But we do carry challenges andthose lower emotions when we're
a kid.
And may I ask, like the shame,where did that come from?

(24:58):
What was that about?
Was that being in a privilegedenvironment and feeling that
that wasn't right with the peers, or what was that about?

Speaker 1 (25:06):
I don't think it was about the environment.
I was always happy to, I say,admit that I came from
privileged background.
I went to one of the topboarding schools in the country.
I never hid that way becausethat was part of me.
What I think happened was backat the age of six.
That was when my parents gotdivorced, yeah, and that's where
my whole world just kind ofchanged, because you don't

(25:28):
really understand what, what theworld really is at that point.
You don't get all these complexadult scenarios we get, and at
the time my dad really struggledbecause of that and he didn't
really have anyone to turn to.
Maybe he had like one or twofriends, but even then that
culture they grew up in it justwasn't a thing you know with,

(25:49):
with parents who grew up duringthe war.
I think he was actually bornduring world war ii.
So, yeah, that's um, that givesyou a bit of perspective and I
feel like I took on quite a lotof the mess that came about from
from that did you feel like youwere sponging the myth at some
level?

(26:09):
Absolutely, and I still had noidea what was going on, except
that these horrible things werehappening and it was.
I felt like I was taking thison, but then I didn't really
have an idea of, okay, what am Isupposed to do with this?
Okay, am I supposed to hatethis person?
Am I supposed to like?

(26:30):
How am I supposed to be in thisworld?
And at school I've beennaturally being bullied, being
picked on.
I kind of just felt very lostand this shame, I think, just
came from not really havingbelonging, feeling like I was
always looking at someone else'sproblems, the attention was
always elsewhere, it was neveron me.
So I felt very lost.
I didn't know who I was and Ithink every time I tried to be

(26:54):
weird or say something funny, itwas shut down.
And even when I wore the niceguy mask, even when I was this
confident guy on the well, I sayconfidence, but outwardly
confident what would happen is Iwould just, you know, I
wouldn't really say much inconversations, I would just be
there and try and be likechilled out, cool guy.
Uh, you know, I had like a manbun, I had, uh, sometimes it was

(27:18):
a skin fade and I was just, youknow, very minimal, still
connecting with people on asurface level.
But what happened is, as Istarted to trust these people, I
would show my real self, theweird Harrison you know the kid
from the kid from school andwhenever I did that, it wasn't
met with the same receptivity.
It was almost like oh, who'sthis guy?

(27:40):
This is strange.
And then, coming back to thenice guy, I wasn't voicing my
annoyances.
I wasn't telling people I wasannoyed at stuff they did.
So what did I do?
Instead of telling them themdirectly?
If we were having aconversation, I'd say James, I
don't appreciate that.
Do you mind not doing thatplease?
I didn't have any respect formyself.
So what I did was I would shoveit down, I would build

(28:02):
resentment, and what happenswith resentment is that it never
leaves your body, it never goesaway.
So for me it was.
It was right I'd be this coolguy on the surface and then
randomly I'd shout or I wouldfeel these big rejection wounds
and I would be feeling reallybad about stuff.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
So it'd be like passive aggressive and then
external aggressive in some kindof way.
So the fighting is a way to getthat irate, heavy energy out,
like the thai boxing and soforth.
Well, that's why the Thaiboxing was such a great outlet
for me, yeah, but it's an outlet.
It's a flow, right.
A lot of boxers come from heavybackgrounds and they need a way
to express that, so it's ahealthy thing.

(28:40):
But once you become healthy, ifyou've got frustration, hitting
a boxing bag is great, but onceyou're back in center, again
that.
But once you're back in centeragain, that is not what you want
to do.
You want to learn somethingelse, like Tai Chi.
If you managed it.
So, like I noticed, when myemotions change, do I go on the
bag?
If I've got some heavy energy,I want to explain, yes, and I'll
do it.
And I notice okay, look, I'vechanneled that energy really

(29:02):
well and I found my creativityis amazing when I know when I've
channeled that energy in apositive way rather than a
negative way.
But when we do it negatively,we internally combust and then
our world around us changesbecause our vibration and our
frequency changes.
I want to know when you noticedthe nice guy syndrome and

(29:25):
changed it.
But then I also want to knowfor the people listening,
because I'll be like fascinated.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
What did you notice around you begin to change?
Yes, it was.
I remember an exact incidentwhere I wanted to go to pro
wrestling training.
I was an aspiring pro wrestler,absolutely loved it, and it
fell on, I don't know.
Let's say a thursday evening,and I remember my friend I think
it was saint patrick's day.
He's like oh, harrison, we'regoing to the pub for saint
patrick's day, do you want tocome?
Yeah, and then I said I thinkI'm going to go to wrestling.

(30:00):
He's like oh, come on, don't beboring, come on, come.
And I ended up going to the puband I remember that moment.
I'm there and I'm having thisdrink.
And then after I remember, thepro wrestling coach messaged me
and he said oh, are you okay,harrison?
Haven't seen you at trainingrecently.
And I thought and that was justsuch a big you know what?

(30:20):
Hang on, this is the last, thisis the last show.
I'm completely done with thisnow.
Yeah, and that's when I thoughtright, you know what my goals
and ambitions are far moreimportant than anyone else's, at
least from a friendship leveland before you go on about
looking at the world and outsideof you.
So that was the first time in afriendship setting where I was

(30:41):
like okay, I've had enough ofthis.
And then I started reflectingback on my previous friendships
with people and I realized justhow unbalanced it was.
It was always just me wantingto be included in everything and
then not being included.
And then that's why I justthought you know what?
I'm just so done with this.
I want to build my own life.
And then I think, as you go outof university, what happens is

(31:05):
you suddenly don't have anexcuse to go out anymore.
Right, it's for a lot of people, university's a fun time.
You go out drinking and youhave the women, the attention
and all this other stuff goingon.
But for me, what happened waswhen I left that environment,
suddenly I had a choice onweekends, do I go out or do I
take up this new hobby and prowrestling was a big one because

(31:27):
I thought no, I would muchrather put my own needs first,
because that's more exciting tome.
So for me, suddenly, when Irealized, oh, actually there's
more to this world than thedrinking, the hanging out with
people, suddenly that was arealization.
I thought no, my needs are moreimportant.
So I think you've got to havethat, whereas I think early on
in the nice guy's story.

(31:47):
He's always just looking to beincluded.
It's about I want more friends,I want to be included.
But then I realized everythingand then I noticed every single
scenario.
I felt like I was invisible.
I felt like it wouldn't matterif I was here, like no one, no
one's interested.
And it was when I went to prowrestling where I was like, oh
my gosh, hang on a sec.
These guys are all weird, likeme.

(32:09):
This is amazing.
And I found that communitythere and I thought this is just
brilliant, like I can just be.
These guys hang on.
I'm thinking these guys areweird.
I thought I was a weird guy andthen now it's like, oh wow,
these are my people.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
That's why I really love it is that when you own who
you are and your weirdness, youknow people just like go that
you're my kind of person.
But if you're not beingauthentic with that, then it
always gets hidden.
I personally believe somethingthat you mentioned which is
really important that you oftentend to people please when you

(32:42):
haven't got a purpose, and Ithink this is a massive one,
especially for men.
And this is very important forwomen, because women are mostly
and always attracted to men whohave got a purpose and follow it
, because it's leadership.
But if men don't have a purpose, you're vulnerable.
A most dangerous man and I meanthat in a positive way is a man

(33:07):
who knows where he's going.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Well, I agree with that wholeheartedly.
I love how you put that,because when you have a mission,
when you have a vision,suddenly it's like, well, you
don't have, you just don't havetime like you drop all this
stuff off.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
You drop the things that aren't necessary anymore.
That's not good.
This is just so important.
People respect you and thenthey value your time so much
more, because if your time isalways given away, people don't
value it and it's a good pointto, I'd say to anyone work out
what your values are.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
I think the nice guy doesn't know what he values.
This is why in conversations hewas conflicted.
I remember I had a lot oftrouble because when debates
would come up and when thesecertain scenarios happening, I
never questioned oh hang on,what do I actually want to do
here?
And I had so much indecision.
I was, I, like I reallystruggled with making decisions
and it was because I didn't knowmy values.

(34:01):
I didn't know what it was.
So I was just this again, justno direction, just I was just
flowing, flowing, flowing andyour question.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
What gave you direction?
What?
What was it?
Was it the?
The conversation in the pubwhen the, the pro wrestling
manager, um director, said toyou I haven't seen you in
training, what?
What was it that you go?
Do you know what?
This is important.
This is my mission.
This is the route I want to go,and also setting up the podcast
, the growth void.
You know that's got to comefrom something within to go.

(34:31):
I can help people.
I've been through this andthat's exactly what you're doing
.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
You're helping a lot of people, you're coaching a lot
of people well, that was theproblem was one scenario right
where I thought, hang on, this,this isn't, this isn't right.
Maybe it's the environment thatneeds changing, maybe, my well,
I need, I need something, andthat's where, when I found that
something, I had a direction togo on.
However, that was in myself,and then I started thinking okay

(34:59):
, well, I'm somewhat along thisgrowth journey now.
I'm starting to detach from anysort of nice guy tendencies,
I'm detaching from my socialcircle, and I felt a little bit
lonely, a little bit.
However, now I was like no, I'mhappy, I'm showing up for
myself, I'm getting up early ona Saturday and going to

(35:19):
jiu-jitsu.
So it was, yeah, like, while Iwould like connection, and I was
looking at people's Instagramstories, I thought, oh, would
have liked to get the invite tothat.
Oh, that looks like a goodnight out.
So I'd feel that emotion reallyheavily on the Friday evening,
but Saturday morning I'd go tojujitsu, have a wicked session,
and then I'd get my firstsubmission on someone and I'm
like and it's Saturday and it's11 am and I'm there walking and

(35:41):
I'm high as hell and there's nojug at all.
I'm just there, just like, andI found so much meaning in that
and I thought, wow, that isawesome.
So that's when, I think, that'swhen I really started to lead
my own life.
And then I started along thisgrowth journey and I thought,
hang on, there's this middle bithere.

(36:03):
So you've left the nice guytendencies, you've left the nice
guy mask, but you want tobecome this person.
You've got this vision.
So, before you get there,there's this period in between
where, okay, you've, you're kindof leaving that you'll fall
back into old patterns, maybeyou'll procrastinate a bit,
maybe you'll get back intosmoking one night, like these

(36:24):
tendencies still happen.
And you have a choice you caneither go back to the life that
you used to have as a nice guyor you can continue on the
journey.
Now what I love to believehappens with everyone is that
they think right, you know whatI've.
You look backwards and you'relike, hang on a sec, I don't
want to go back there.
So you have no choice but tokeep on going.
And I thought why not create apodcast where?

(36:48):
Which is dedicated to people inthat middle spot, where they've
gone on this journey andthey're not quite where they
want to be yet, but they canfinally listen to people who've
gone through that journey or arestill on it, and that was my
vision.
It was so these people who, intheir mind, think they're the
only ones that they're crazy,but they're living in a society

(37:08):
that doesn't accept them andthey're strange ones that
they're crazy, but they'reliving in a society that doesn't
accept them and they're strangeActually, no, you're on the
right path.
Keep on going and I promise youyour life is going to be so
much better.
So that's the vision.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
I love that and you know, in addition to what you're
saying there, I think it'sreally important that if people
are at a crossroads and theydon't know what's going to
happen next, I think that that'sthe best place to be, because
the unknown is waiting for youto discover.
I remember when I first turnedsober, like 20-odd years ago,

(37:39):
and became plant-based, I wasthe only guy doing it and I was
like all right, I don't knowanybody in my sphere of
influence who's doing?
anything similar.
But the reason why I did it wasbecause I drank so much like
binge drinking and I was justlike I know what's going to
happen next weekend.
I don't want to be that personnext weekend, but you can't stop

(38:01):
something without startingsomething else.
And for me, in my journey andmy listeners now, I think this
is really powerful to drop thenice guy or the nice girl
syndrome.
You've got to do something foryou that is just for you, and
it's definitely got to besomething for your mental
well-being, your health, yourmind, body and your soul.

(38:23):
Something and I made thatcommitment to myself daily I'm
going to do something for mymind, body and soul every day,
something that makes me happy,something that calms me and is
good for me, something thatmoves the body, something that's
going to go inside the bodynutrition and food that's good.
And I'm going to find a way toquiet my mind.
And that's when I beganmeditation and doing stretching

(38:46):
and eating really well andspending more time in nature and
doing things I love, which ismusic and like being outside.
I was like, wow, this actuallyhappened.
And so for my journey, it was Iam so important, or my
well-being is so important thatmy life cannot spark any change

(39:07):
unless I do something new today.
So what was your new thing?
Like, you had your Thai boxing,is that right?
You had your wrestling.
What else?

Speaker 1 (39:18):
yeah.
So I had all of that which wasreally driving me and I still
had this really deep meaning forpurpose.
I was like, right, what's mything?
And I knew I wanted to be anentrepreneur.
And that was always my vision,because I think every guy maybe
not every guy, but at least forme I really wanted something.
I really wanted that one thingthat was going to drive me and I

(39:39):
think deep down, we're allwanting that.
I think we all want a purpose,something that's going to go big
.
And for me there were twothings.
Well, one was I had a coffeewith a chap who's, yeah, run
several businesses now, and Iwas like, how do I find my
purpose?
I want to find my purpose.
And he told me honestly, mate,it will come.

(40:01):
It will come to you, you justgotta continue doing.
But what happened with me was,as soon as I let go of wanting
to find something, it found me,and so I thought, okay, yeah,
that makes so he said that right.
he said that, okay, and Ithought, okay, cool, so I let go
of any idea of findingsomething.
And then it was only then, whenI was speaking to a guy at a

(40:23):
meetup at this coffee place, andI go up to him and I can see
he's looking at a book and he'sreading a book on his phone and
I'm saying, oh, what's that?
He said oh, no more, mr NiceGuy.
I thought, oh, that'sinteresting.
What is that he's like?
Oh, it's a book and it'scompletely changed my life.
It's a game changer man, youhave to get it.

(40:43):
So I thought, oh, okay, I'vegot to get this.
This sounds really cool.
That sounds like something,because, bearing in mind
everything we've discussed sofar, I had no idea what the nice
guy syndrome was.
Right, okay, I was justbattling the symptoms, I was
just, I was just working thingsout, I didn't have anything.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
If I'd found that book at the age of 19, then well
, that would have been, but youmight not been in the headspace
for it, right?
So I always think thateverything comes to you when
you're ready.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
You know when the student's ready, the master
appears I agree, and I foundthat in my plant medicine
experiences as well, where it'slike if I had the lessons more
recently than I did two yearsago, my brain wouldn't have been
able to handle it.
It was.
It was too much.
So I do really believe in that.
Now I read this book and I wasoh wait, I'm the.
I'm the nice guy.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
This is great.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
So all the answers came to me.
I thought, oh, this iswonderful.
And then it made sense, becausethen I could go deeper within
my childhood story, which Ihadn't really pieced together
yet, and then start looking atthe correlations.
And then that's where I thought, okay, well, this is
interesting.
And what was happening was,before then I was working in
recruitment and it was a cooljob, you know.

(41:51):
I learned some sales skills andit was a nice environment yeah
however, yeah, still looking forthat soul's calling.
But what was happening was someof my friends were really
struggling with their mentalhealth and I really wanted to
help them, but naturally workwould take priority and I was
just trying to figure things outby myself.
And then eventually, when thatjob just kind of left I think

(42:14):
now I kind of manifested it inthe back of my mind, but out of
the blue we just had a chat anddecided it was no longer a fit.
Now I had this time to help myfriends out.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
So I'm like okay, cool, let me get deep into your
life and ask a question whatmade you feel as though it was
your job to help your friendswho were struggling mentally?
Because this is interesting isthat a nice guy going oh, I've
got to go and fix somebody.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
I don't know that's a really good question and,
looking back on it, there wasprobably an element of that.
But at the same time, I knewthat you know, just with a
change of some belief systems,that it could.
It could help him.
Yeah, but I was also aware oflike boundaries as well.
And yeah, not to.
I was just said look, if youwant me to help you out, I've

(42:57):
got this time on my hands, let'ssee how we go.
And he said, oh, I feel bad, Ifeel like a burden.
You know, I don't want you to.
Yeah, I'm not sure.
And I was like, okay, well,look, just pay me for my time.
You know, that way it's a valueexchange and let's see how we
go.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
And that ended up being really, really can I say
that's the entrepreneur spiritkicking in straight away, paying
me for my time.
Then it's no waste of anybody's.
I love that.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
Yeah, and it's seeing it as a value exchange and the
nice guy usually he'll refrainfrom asking for stuff a lot of
the time and the receivingaspects, which I'm sure we'll go
into but that happened and wegot really great results and I
thought, okay, wow, okay, therecould be something here.
And then even my podcast guestssome of them I thought, oh, do
you want to take this deeper?

(43:45):
Do you want to try this out?
And then I thought, oh, they'reall nice guys.
So then it's like okay, right,we can start creating a
framework here to help nice guysjust uncover or get rid of
these layers of themselves andavoid making the same mistakes
that I did, or get rid of theselayers of themselves and avoid
making the same mistakes that Idid.
So that's where the real purposecame, because I know that
feeling like they're, they'veachieved so much.

(44:07):
And this is why, like before Istart working with them, I'm
always like, right, just tell meall your achievements and
they'll give me theseachievements.
I'm like, hang on, you've donethis, you've done this, you've
done this.
I knew you were telling meyou're low in confidence and I
just couldn't.
And I could so relate to itbecause I've been there, I
couldn't see.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
I couldn't see my worth for a long time right it's
so funny because it's almost asif you're wired for something
else rather than for seeing youknow the gifts and qualities
that you possess.
You know, I I don't think thatit's healthy to always feel as
though you need validation fromsomebody, meaning like your
grandma was the one who put youon her knee and just go oh well

(44:46):
done, harrison, you're such agood boy, you've done brilliant
today.
You don't get that in life.
You get sunshine, you getclouds, you get rain, you get
thunderstorms.
That's how it goes, and I thinkthat finding a way to maintain
a sense of steadiness in all ofthat is what the adult mind, not

(45:08):
a child.
I believe a child should bereally looked after and nurtured
, but when you become an adult,if that's the type of discipline
you have to develop to step outof that, nice, the people
pleasing I get validated,otherwise I'm not going to get
acknowledged because you're notshown that as a child.
You know.
You know I look at like someleaders in the world that make a

(45:29):
big noise.
That's because their child, intheir childhood, they weren't
validated.
They said to make a big noise.
You see the people going downthe streets with big boom boxes,
coming out their cars thatannoying.
But they're annoying becausethey weren't heard as a child.
So if I speak up and I makemore noise, then you'll see me.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
And this is where you reminded me, because I was
never the naughty kid at school.
I always paid attention, but Iwould do now and then I would do
crazy stuff that got me intotrouble.
And now I see that I was justtrying to be seen.
There'd be this big events atthe school and there'd be a
microphone and I'd pick it upand I'd give a shout out to john
cena.
So I saw all this stuff andthen just really random events.

(46:12):
But in the classroom I wasreally well behaved, but there
were these events where I justwanted someone to see me really
funny and it's so funny, likewhen I was growing up.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
There's a guy in my, uh, in my year and he's always
playing the joker the whole time, always like the whole time
inside the class, outside theclass.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
But that was to hide the pain feelings that he had
that is a really interestingpoint, mainly because I noticed
it was a big pattern in mybehavior was just always making
jokes, always making jokes.
And then, because the ego is sostrong, and this is what I'm
really trying to how to breakthis down to people when you're

(46:50):
in that belief system, becauseif you said to someone, oh, hang
on, where did that come from?
If they make a comment aboutyour clothes or about it, could
be something very small, but ifyou just ask where did that come
from?
And but because the ego is sostrong, like in my instance, it
was like, oh, no, hang on, sayI'm just, I'm just me, it's just
part of my personality and,like you were saying, we've all
got a childlike aspect to us.

(47:13):
However, there's still likethere's going to be discernment,
there's going to be a time andplace and if you're always
making jokes, always makingthese comments and this is why,
when you look back at yourjourney, I look back and in the
time of the nice guy, I thoughtwhy doesn't anyone like me
understand me?
Well, there's a couple reasons,one of them being that
imperfect people are attractedto imperfection.

(47:33):
So that way, if you're alwaystrying to be, you know perfect,
which is a whole other subjectthen they're going to see
through that and you're going toattract inauthentic
relationships.
Now there's another element tothat as well, where, if you're
constantly just going, going,going and you're sort of in the
zone and you're, you've got thisbelief system and no one

(47:56):
challenges you, you're going tothink that you're the good guy,
you're all the nice guy right.
And now, looking back, I think,okay, I can understand why
people didn't gravitate towardsme.
Because I was.
I'd make these little jokes, Iwould make these little jibes at
people and it would be, it'd berude, right.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
So, yeah, because the energy that you're giving off
is like becoming.
It's like you're demagnetizingpeople in.
You always find that that whenyou see people laughing in a
room, everyone looks over.
Do you know why?
Because joy is our normal setpoint.
Having fun and feeling good isour normal set point.
So when someone's looking overand they're people are laughing
in the airport or somethingpeople are I want some of that.

(48:42):
That's our normal thing.
So we attract those things, butwe also repel things, and I
think that when you understandenergy, you realize that there
are no victims here.
They're only creators, andyou're either attracting
experiences or you're repellingexperiences.
And I think the nice guysyndrome repels authentic

(49:02):
relationships.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
It repels fantastic, intimate relationships big time,
big time, and that was such abig part of my journey.
Right, we talked aboutfriendships, but in a romantic
setting setting as well, yeah,and what happens is, even though
you learn the lessons from thenice guy mask, sometimes you can
move into a completelydifferent mask where you're just

(49:24):
shut off from the world.
And we talked about the layerswhere I built up so many layers
to avoid getting hurt again.
Right, it's layers of the ego,because, yeah, no, I don't want
to get hurt, I want to pushpeople away.
So what happened was right, itwas very sort of, yeah, fleeting
relationships never reallycommit to anything, was just
having fun playing the field.
But what happened was I wasusing that, this sort of work

(49:48):
hard, play hard mentality, andfor me it worked.
At the time I thought, okay,life's good, yeah, still looking
for external validation fromwomen, like it was the ultimate
source of my approval.
So what I would do?
I would see multiple women, andthen that way I could never, I
could never get hurt.
My ego was just protectedbecause I was always seeking
that.
And then this is the power ofthe belief system.
You don't realize that you'rechasing a feeling for me.

(50:10):
I just thought I just lovefemale company, like nothing
wrong with that.
It's like no, you're chasing afeeling.
But what happened was Ieventually met someone who was
different.
It felt like more of a genuineconnection.
It was like wow, like thiscould be something different
here.
And what was happening was wewere seeing each other a bit but

(50:30):
I wasn't ready to let her in.
I built up so many layers of myego, it just didn't work out.
So eventually that really gotme thinking.
It was like hang on a sec.
The first time I've gotsomewhat of a genuine connection
, someone actually likes me forme, yeah there's a really
interesting quote.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Let me pull it off your task is not to seek for
love, but merely to seek andfind all the barriers within you
that you have built against it.
It's basically like saying thatwe, we literally put so many
walls up in.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
The ultimate spiritual reflection you can
ever have is an intimaterelationship and I think I
imagine that goes not just forthat aspect, but also just any,
any aspect of life.
I feel like we're all going toreceive something, but it's our
blocks, our own internal blocks,that stop us from receiving it.
So this is why, doing the workso important in my journey, when

(51:28):
that incident happened, Ithought something's got to
change, because I've I've beenhaving fun for, you know, since
the age of 15.
Now I kind of want something abit more.
I crave that deeper connection.
Comes to the responsibilitypiece.
Again, I thought I've got tochange an aspect of myself.
So then that's why I thought,okay, right, what would I want
in an ideal partner?
Okay, and then I listed theattributes you know calming,

(51:50):
presence, understanding,empathetic.
I thought okay, and then Ilooked my own behavior and I
thought, okay, you know what?

Speaker 2 (51:58):
I need to start embodying more of these, because
it's like the thing is, youwant to attract the right
partner, you better be that,that version that magnetizes it
in, because everyone in truth isreflection, whether we like it
or not, and even the difficultpeople that we have in our life
are mirrors to show us.
Oh, maybe I have that sort ofthing within me myself that

(52:18):
maybe I need to look at.
And you know, I remember oncehaving a really difficult
neighbor and I was thinking, god, why is he so challenging?
And I remember thinking tomyself have I had that behavior
within me as well?
and I thought to myself if Ilook deep enough, maybe I do so.
Then I looked at that,addressed it, cleaned it up.

(52:39):
Really interesting.
We don't want to admit ourfaults, we don't want to admit
our poor behavior, we don't wantto admit our downfalls because
we want to see that we'reperfect.
But the truth is we'rebeautiful, imperfect, like that
Japanese thing.
You know where they break allthe bits and glue it up.
That's what makes us relatableoh, and you've.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
You've sparked something inside me which is a
debate I've sort of thrown aboutin my head for a while.
Which is okay?
Which elements of yourself doyou necessarily say need work on
for lack of a better term orwhich parts are just you as a
person, and there's so muchdepth to that?
I wonder if it's just a case,or which parts are just you as a
person and there's so muchdepth to that.
I wonder if it's just a case ofokay, which parts of me do I

(53:25):
want to keep or not?

Speaker 2 (53:26):
Oh, I love that.
Okay, so in closing, this is ariveting conversation.
I love speaking to you,harrison, but in closing, for
people who recognize they mayhave a nice guy or a nice girl
syndrome, what would you say areperhaps the first things that
they need to do in order to stopthat self-sabotage, to stop

(53:47):
that type of behavior and startmoving in and leaning into the
best version of themselves?

Speaker 1 (53:54):
I think the first one is awareness, awareness of your
patterns.
Surround yourself with goodpeople who will call you out.
I like to say, call you forward, people who will call you
forward into stepping into abetter version of yourself, and
then from there, you can alsohave responsibility.
I think, having responsibilityfor your life, for your actions,

(54:16):
for everything, even if youthink, oh, this person did this,
but oh, come on, did you notsee what this person did doesn't
matter.
Take responsibility, becausethat's the only way your life is
going to change.
No one else is going to changeyour life for you, only you are.
So responsibility and thenaction.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
I think you've got to take action so what sort of
actions could they take?
I've got one, but I want youknow you've you're well
experienced about this, so whatsort of actions could they take?

Speaker 1 (54:43):
I would get very clear on sort of who you want to
become and then take actionstowards that.
So it's very simple maybe youwant to be more confident, you
want to respect your ownboundaries.
Okay, we mentioned beforetesting it out on people taking
small steps.
Yeah, noticing again, likeeverything's links, and noticing
, with the awareness piece, Ithink, also just showing up for

(55:04):
yourself just every day.
If you say you're going to dosomething, then do it, because
that way, when you keep yourword to yourself, you build up
so much self-love over time andthen you stop looking gradually
for this external approvalbecause you've become proud of
the person you've become.
So I think action is animportant piece.
I'm intrigued to hear what yourone was okay.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
So I really like what you just said is what, when you
keep your word to yourself,your mind is listening.
Your subconscious mind's alwayslistening.
So if harrison does what hesays he's going to do, or julia
or john does what he says theysaid they were going to do, the
mind listens and goes right,believe you're gonna keep doing
that.
So that behavior Createsconfidence, right, and then that

(55:46):
external validation what youdon't need it, but it comes
because you do what you sayyou're gonna do.
People are respect and trustyou, so then they naturally want
to start listening because youdo what you say you're gonna do
and follow through.
I think one of the things thatmade me become less of a yes
person and what you say you'regoing to follow through I think
one of the things that made mebecome less of a yes person and
more kind rather than nice,which was to myself more than

(56:10):
anything else, which was I underpromised and over delivered,
and what I mean by that is Iused to be the worst for this,
but I said you know I'll bethere in 20 minutes, but really
I was there in 30 minutes andfor the whole of those 30
minutes I was stressing and so Iwas like oh God, why am I?

(56:33):
Why am I promising that I'mgoing to be there in 20 minutes
where I'm not really going tomake it?
And the reason being is becauseI thought I don't know what I
was thinking, but I thoughtthat's what I should do.
You know, like I want to makethem feel that I'm going to be
close but I'm not going to be,and so that entire anxiety and
stress of pushing against timemade me feel so uncomfortable so

(56:55):
I actually did the opposite.
So instead of saying I wasgoing to be there in the amount
of time in 30 minutes I saidsaid I'll be there in 45.
And so when I turned up at 30,you're early.
I was like and so that wholetime gave me leeway, gave me
freedom, gave me space, gave memore time for my life to do

(57:15):
whatever I wanted to do.
And I was like wow, I feel good.
So now, when it came to myfamily, which was I was always
the person that was like I feelgood.
So now, when it came to myfamily, which was I was always
the person that was like I'mgonna be late or whatever.
They were like oh, you're early, oh, that's good, you know.
And so everyone started tobuild up this different, uh, new
perspective or new identity ofhow James showed up in the world
.
Oh, I'll tell you what gave mean astronomical amount of

(57:39):
confidence, friskiness what Imean like fun.
You know, like I was like, yeah, of course I'm early.
You, what gave me anastronomical amount of
confidence, friskiness what Imean like fun.
You know, like I was like, yeah, of course I'm early.
You know what I mean, and soit's just.
I just felt, so I don't know,happy with myself because I put
all that stress away, I'dstopped needing to be nice and
I'd given myself extra time.
And I think that's reallyimportant Give yourself extra

(58:01):
time.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
You spoke to my younger self there.
It's such a big one, alwaysalways late, stuff, always
stressing, and again, this iswhy it goes.
It goes so deep sometimes.
Sometimes you don't evenrealize you're people pleasing.
Classic scenario was.
I mentioned this one because italways happened to me.
I'd be.
Let's say we went for a coffee.
Let's say I've got a say I'vegot to be done by 1 pm on the

(58:24):
spot, and it goes to 12.58.
And I'm there, I'm getting abit anxious.
12.59, then it's one Okay.
And then what the kind personwould do, even if I'm really
interested in what you're goingto say, I'm going to say
Jamesames, I'm so sorry, I'vereally got to go.
Let's continue thisconversation next time.
But what I would do is I'd gookay, it's 101, okay, shit.

(58:46):
And then it's like 103 and I'dbe like and it's just so
inauthentic, and they can telland it's rude, you think you're
being nice, you're usingniceness to avoid the rejection
and the fear that you don't getapproval, but they tell, they
can tell your body language thatyou want to go.
So what's the kind of thing todo?
It's by being upfront andhonest, even though there's this

(59:08):
sense of discomfort which isusually just the mind anyway.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
Yeah, I love that.
In fact, the most importantthing is authenticity and owning
it.
I remember once I had a bossyears ago.
I really liked him because hewas so authentic and he owned
his like bad habits, right.
He said, look, I've got a foulmouth, I'm often very rude, but
I do this extremely well.

(59:32):
And he'd say that in front ofclients and I remember laughing
so much.
I was like that's exactly whathe's like, laughing so much I
was like that's exactly whathe's like.
But I loved that, like saying,look, I'm not perfect, I do
speak like that, I am prettyrude, but you are going to get
an excellent service.
And he always delivered.
And people really liked himbecause he was like that,

(59:54):
because he owned his stuff.
And I think that when you'renice, you don't want to own
stuff.
When you're nice, you don'twant to own any of your
imperfections.
When you're nice, you don'twant to own stuff.
When you're nice, you don'twant to own any of your
imperfections.
When you're nice, you're alwayslooking for someone to go.
Well, well done.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
don't want that and how freeing, how freeing is that
?
Just put it out there, you know, almost like that disarms it,
that disarms the discomfort,saying hey, I'm gonna be this
way.
I think that's so powerful andagain, like just small steps you
can take right, if you're, ifyou've got a trusted friend, a
partner, a coach, whatever itmay be, tell them for this week
I'm going to put myself first.

(01:00:26):
And this is a big step in thenice guy recovery.
Just tell someone I'm going toput myself first.
It might be uncomfortable, youmight not like it, but let's
just see how it goes and thenyou'll see just how much more
peaceful life can get.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
I bet there's an absolute direct correlation
between your heart health andheart disease.
From people who are nice topeople who are authentic and own
it, I bet there is a massivecorrelation.
If you go to hospitals youwouldn't probably be able to
diagnose it or find out, but I'mpretty sure on an energetic

(01:00:59):
level, the people that arealways saying yes, the people
who are people pleasing, they,have a shorter lifespan oh yeah,
I 100% make sense to me and Ithink that this conversation and
you, you know what you've beentalking about the nice guy
syndrome and trying to step outof that potential identity and
creating an empowered identity,I think could save lives, can

(01:01:25):
make your life number one morefun, but number two, you know,
you leave all that stress andanxiety away.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
And when you show up as a better person for yourself,
that's going to have a rippleeffect.
You're going to then inspiremore people because when you're
authentic, when you're spreadingyour light, okay cool.
Some people will outwardlymaybe project their own
insecurities, but secretly,what's going on?
You're planting a seed andyou're inspiring people, whether
they admit it or not.
So I think that's extramotivation that you can create

(01:01:53):
this wonderful life for yourself, but then also for the people
around you as well, and yourrelationships will get so, so,
so much better.
And there's nothing morepowerful than meeting someone
and they just love you andaccept you for who you are,
behind all the masks.
And that's what happened when Imet my current girlfriend.

(01:02:14):
When I first met her, she couldsee beneath all of this and it
was like I was speaking to hersoul.
Suddenly, it wasn't about theexternal look anymore.
I could talk and I wasn't beinginterrupted.
She was actually listening,actually listening to every word
I had to say, and I thought youknow what?
I haven't felt that in my lifebefore and that is so healing.
So I think, if you can get tothat point even beforehand just

(01:02:39):
learning to be vulnerable infront of safe men and learning
to be loved and accepted.
That's been such a an importantmoment, not just in my journey,
but in my clients as well.
That's the.
That's the goal, I think justbe loved and accepted for who
you are.
And you can only do that whenyou get rid of the masks and
step into fear amazing, amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
Harrison, thank you so much for being on the show.
If you haven't listened toharrison's podcast, he's got the
growth voyage podcast go andlisten to it.
I'm gonna have all the links toconnect with harrison below,
but thank you so much, harrison.
Thank you so much, james,appreciate you.
Thanks for tuning into the showand if you enjoyed it, please
remember to follow rate andshare it with someone who'd love

(01:03:19):
it too.
Until the next time, wishingyou green lights ahead.