In this episode, I sit down with my older sister, Cecilia Garnett, a career coach, mother of two, and stage 4 cancer survivor. Cecilia’s journey from diagnosis to cancer-free is nothing short of extraordinary. Through a combination of hope, asking the right questions, and taking control of her healing, she curated a team of experts as well using combinational therapy including a functional nutritionist and oxygen therapy—empowering herself to reclaim her health.
Now, as a career coach, Cecilia uses these same principles of self-advocacy, communication, and resilience to help others find their purpose and get back to work.
Tune in for an inspiring story of how asking the right questions can spark hope, transform your health, and lead you to a more fulfilling career.
Thank you for listening
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
This week's guest is an extraordinary woman, a stage
core cancer survivor and careercoach, Cecilia Garner.
She's a little unusual as aguest because she's also my
older sister.
Cecilia's here to share herinspiring journey and the
powerful lessons she's learnedalong the way.
SPEAKER_03 (00:19):
Nothing is hopeless as long as you are able to find
that positivity from somewhere,and we are better together as a
team, as people around us.
So there is you don't need to dostuff on your own.
SPEAKER_01 (00:37):
Hello and welcome to the James Grantham Podcast Super
Town Model series.
This week we are joined by anextraordinary person who is not
only a fantastic coach, but isalso my sister.
And I'd like to introduceCecilia Garnet, who is a
seasoned career coach with over20 years of experience in
recruitment, talent development,and guiding young people and
(00:59):
professionals towards careersthat genuinely lie with their
strength and their story.
Cecilia's delivered hundreds oftalks to coach families
one-to-one and recently designeda powerful employability program
for social disadvantagedteenagers, including those with
special needs.
She's our Swedish, married to aNew Zealander with two amazing
(01:19):
kids, my nephew and niece, andshe's a stage four cancer
survivor.
And in this episode, we aregoing to explore communication
in a way that will not onlyempower you, but will show you
exactly what you need to do inorder to help yourself go to the
next level.
I'd like to welcome CeciliaGarnett to this week's episode.
SPEAKER_03 (01:40):
Thank you so much for having me, James.
SPEAKER_01 (01:43):
Well, first and foremost, I would just like to
say this is very rare becauseI'll never have any members of
my family on the podcast.
And I just wanted to appreciateyou and your journey and applaud
you for how you've handledperhaps one of the most
difficult things that peoplecould face and how you've come
(02:03):
back from that.
And I think the whole purpose ofthe Super Town Model series is
to show people who are rolemodels who can show us the way
when life gets really tough.
And your story, you know, I'veyou know, my you're my sister,
but your story is inspiring, andI think it could help millions
of people, and that's why Ireally wanted to have you on
this episode.
(02:24):
So it's very rare to have mysister or any member of my
family for that matter on thisepisode.
So I just wanted to give youfirst a warm welcome and an
introduction.
And I'd if you could, I'd loveyou to share your story.
So let's just cast your mindback to a few years ago when you
were diagnosed, because I thinkunderstanding your story will
(02:47):
give people some clarity abouthow that your story could
inspire them.
SPEAKER_03 (02:55):
Okay, so um it was July 21, I found a lump
completely accidentally, noother symptoms whatsoever.
The lump was the size of a golfball, so it was officially 36
millimeters.
And I was told that if I was tohave surgery straight away, I
(03:22):
would have to have a mastectomy.
So they instead wanted to tryand shrink it with chemotherapy,
five months worth ofchemotherapy.
Um back when they gave me thatdiagnosis, I had to go in for
various different um MRI, CTscans, PET scans, etc., because
(03:43):
they needed to assess whether ornot the cancer had spread beyond
my my breast.
And what they found was that ithad indeed uh reached um my
lymph nodes, which automaticallymakes you go makes you go from
stage two diagnosis to a stagethree diagnosis.
(04:09):
What transpired after that wasyou may recall, I came out to
Spain to tell you and our motherthe news because I wanted you to
hear it in person rather thanjust over the phone.
But upon my return, they broughtme in for further conversations,
(04:31):
and the stand-in oncologist atthe time told me that my
diagnosis was no longer stagethree, and actually it was stage
four.
Now, for those who areunfamiliar with the staging of
of or cancer diagnoses, stage touse his words, he told me that
(04:55):
um because they have foundadditional inflammation in my
body, namely in my groin and inmy lung, that that therefore
meant that I had more cancer.
And that more cancer meant thatI was now stage four.
He told me that he was gonnapull my future um chemotherapy
(05:21):
treatments.
I was not going to have any umsurgery, and they were gonna
have to figure out a protocolfor me to be put on.
At that moment, when I got giventhat diagnosis, I was
dumbfounded.
Okay, you know, I had hadseveral diagnoses in that short
(05:41):
space of time across those fewweeks.
And each time I seemed to go in,I seemed to like have a shock.
Um and I just didn't understand.
I mean, I didn't want surgery,really, no one wants surgery,
but to then have it pulled mademe feel like I didn't have a
choice and I just had to sort ofgo along with it.
(06:04):
And I asked him, you know, whywhy why are you pulling all of
this additional treatment thatyou guys had initially you know
laid out for me?
And he turned around and said,You're stage four, which means
you're terminal.
So what's the point?
SPEAKER_01 (06:20):
So when you hear words like that, how did that
make you feel in that moment?
SPEAKER_03 (06:26):
Hopeless.
I mean, I am naturally afighter, but here was a doctor
with loads of letters after hisname, you know, he's been
practicing for years as anoncologist, radio, radio, um,
radiographer, and he was tellingme, who has no medical
(06:48):
background, um, that pretty muchI had a finite I'm out of time
to live.
SPEAKER_01 (06:55):
So you got a husband, you've got two kids,
you got a family.
SPEAKER_03 (06:58):
They were 10 and 12 at the time, so still young,
still need their mother.
I mean, all children need theirmother at whatever age, but I
just I I just didn't get it, andI just felt so unempowered that
I had to hear his reasons as towhy they were not going to
(07:19):
follow through on the originaltreatment plan.
Yeah, and you know, I was reallyupset.
SPEAKER_01 (07:26):
Yeah, naturally.
It's it's it I just wanted tosay there's a you know, I think
there are some amazing doctors,but sometimes they just look at
the the symptoms and just tellyou what is, and that when
you're told what is, you canfeel so disempowered, as you
said, and then it's like what doyou need next?
(07:47):
But you know, Cecilia, yourstory just doesn't stop there at
all.
That's just the beginning.
And I remember when I was inSpain looking after our mother
at the same time, just thinking,Wow, what's gonna happen next?
you know, and you you know, wewe were thinking, How can we
help?
You know, the only thing wecould do is pray every day.
(08:08):
But you know, I like thisterminology by the Quakers, they
say pray whilst you move yourfeet, and that's exactly what
you were doing.
So, how did you handle what camenext?
You know, you had the diagnosis,you probably felt, as you said,
like hopeless, and the rest ofit.
Now, what happened next?
What how did you handle this?
Because this is a lot of thingsthat some people may get a
(08:29):
diagnosis and think, Well, whatdo I do?
SPEAKER_03 (08:32):
So, the first thing it was it wasn't this didn't
happen overnight, it was very itwas gradual, but timing is of
the essence.
This is what I've learned.
So, when I was brave enough toshare my diagnosis with other
people around me, I then gotintroduced to some very
(08:56):
inspirational people who hadcome through at the other end,
and that led me to anintroduction to an amazing
functional nutritionist, andalso led me to another
organization that supportscancer patients through
complementary treatmentsalongside traditional
(09:19):
chemotherapy and radiotherapyand surgery, um, such as
hyperbaric oxygen therapy,infrared sauna, repurposed
drugs, all which work in tandemwith the uh more traditional uh
treatments that are on offerwith an or you know with a with
(09:40):
a system like the NHS.
SPEAKER_01 (09:41):
I really I really like that because you're just
trying to take anything you canget your hands on to be able to
assist yourself so you gain somelevel of control because it must
have felt like you were out ofcontrol, right?
SPEAKER_03 (09:53):
Well, I lost all control in terms of the doctors,
the doctors were making all thedecisions for me, and I had to
go along with it.
SPEAKER_02 (10:00):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (10:01):
But what I learned was that you don't have to go
along with it, or you areallowed to put in requests, or
you're allowed to ask questions.
And I from short very shortlyafter that, I started doing a
lot of reading.
I joined a lot of um specialistFacebook groups on breast
(10:25):
cancer, yeah.
Um, and started reading otherpeople's stories, understanding
the challenges that they'dfaced.
And you know, it's differentfrom country to country.
Um, but here in the UK, youknow, we're really lucky that
we've got the NHS and they do afantastic job, but they're
still, you know, a lot of thesedoctors and nurses are are human
just like us, and they can getit wrong.
(10:48):
And what transpired was thatoncologist who gave me that
terminal, you know, stage fourdiagnosis was actually
incorrect.
And I used my network ofcontacts and and managed to find
a way to get an appointment withthe leading breastcare uh
(11:11):
specialist at the Marsden, who,when I explained my story, had
agreed to see me for a secondopinion because you know I
really needed to know if thiswas really it's fair, it's fair
enough, right?
SPEAKER_01 (11:29):
If you're gonna give a terminal diagnosis, you want a
second opinion because you don'twant to just take it.
Because there are a lot of caseswhere people receive a diagnosis
and within a short amount oftime they're gone, they pass
away.
But but you you wanted a secondopinion, you know, that's
natural within I think withinyour own your own psyche.
I think the way Sicilia's builtis let me find another way.
(11:50):
If this is the first you know,diagnosis, is there is there
something else?
So you went to go and see whathappened next.
SPEAKER_03 (11:57):
So I don't know if you remember this, James, but
the last day that we were inSpain when I came to tell you
and our mother the news, I gotstung by a jellyfish.
SPEAKER_01 (12:07):
I remember that.
SPEAKER_03 (12:14):
I all only put my foot in and I got stung.
SPEAKER_02 (12:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (12:18):
But that and it was quite a bad sting, it became
very inflamed.
Now, I don't know if yourlisteners know about this, but I
learned about it that your lymphnodes are in place to eliminate
toxins from your body.
Okay, and a light or a sting,like a jellyfish sting, makes
(12:43):
your lymph nodes work withoverload.
And didn't know that that wasthe reason why I had more
inflammation elsewhere in mybody due to the jellyfish sting.
So when that was clarified byProfessor Johnson at the
(13:05):
Marsden, it I could go back tomy hospital that I had
originally started the treatmentwith and explain the second
opinion or have that re-lookedat.
And I was then taken back to astage three diagnosis, which
meant all the treatment was backon the table.
SPEAKER_01 (13:28):
Wow, just there's something as normal as well, I
wouldn't say normal to getstunned by a jellyfish, but
something that is so abstractcan come across and change a
diagnosis.
So, does that mean the firstdoctor was wrong because of the
jellyfish sting?
And that's the reason.
So he didn't know, and none ofyou knew.
SPEAKER_03 (13:48):
Well, interestingly enough, they did know because
they ask you right at thebeginning when you have your
chemotherapy, just before aboutyour house to have your
chemotherapy treatment, yeah,whether or not you have been
stung or bitten.
And so when you hear that, Ithought, oh, have I been stung
by a bee or have I been bittenby a dog?
And the answer to that was no.
But I did mention, well, I don'tknow if it's relevant, but I
(14:11):
have just been stung by ajellyfish, and they said, No,
that is relevant.
So it was in my notes.
But this doctor, thisoncologist, didn't read my
notes, and so he made he jumpedto a conclusion that was
absolutely right.
SPEAKER_01 (14:22):
Can I ask a question then?
Because this is really importantto the audience.
As you know, we are quick to getsomething or receive some news.
Uh, maybe at some time I alwayslike to think when you're going
out shopping, you get a firstprice when you're given a quote.
Is that the first quote you sayyes to?
And in this case, it's it's alot more severe, you're getting
(14:43):
a diagnosis um or you'rereceiving one, but that doesn't
mean you have to accept it.
I think that there is a greatdeal of strength within each of
us, demonstrated by you,Cecilia, which is saying, I'm
not having this, I think thatthere's another way.
And I and I think that sometimeswe can fall prey to to being
(15:04):
human and going, Oh, I can't doanything else.
That is very normal and humanbecause sometimes that is the
bottom of we're hitting rock,bottom.
SPEAKER_03 (15:13):
Especially when you are presented with information
from an expert.
Yeah, I'm not a medical expert,I have not had any medical
training whatsoever.
So I had to very, very quicklylearn the language that they
(15:34):
talk so that I could haveconversations on a similar level
with the knowledge that what Iwas learning was relevant, but
not just that, that they wouldhear what I was saying, so that
when I was presenting myquestions and challenging some
of their theories, that I wouldactually be heard by them rather
(16:00):
than overlooked because I'mwasn't a medic or a doctor
myself.
SPEAKER_01 (16:05):
You could potentially just a patient,
another number with anothercase.
SPEAKER_03 (16:09):
Correct.
SPEAKER_01 (16:09):
So we're we're all important, everybody listening,
everyone in the world, we're allimportant.
So, how did you manage tocommunicate what you needed to
communicate, and what exactlydid you need to say?
Because I think communication isthe main theme of today.
Your ability to communicate whatyou needed, given the
(16:30):
information that you'd acquired.
I mean, not many people want togo and learn like what you had
to learn given you knew nothing,but your life was on the line,
your family's on the line, yourkids' lives are on the line.
SPEAKER_03 (16:42):
So I think for me, the emotion I first tapped into
was I don't understand, I don'tget it.
And so I became a detectiveovernight, almost like an
investigator.
And I wanted to find out as muchas I possibly could do about my
(17:05):
type of cancer, because all thecancers are you know different
and treated slightlydifferently, and I just wanted
to know as much as possible sothat I could ask questions, and
then in asking the questions,then I could understand why this
is the case or why that might behappening.
And the more I found out, themore I was then able to present
(17:28):
an alternative or a suggestionto the specialists, to the
experts, to get the best kind oftreatment for me.
And that allowed me to prove andshow them that I was committed
to achieving the best possibleresult, which would be
(17:51):
beneficial for all involved, youknow, it looks good for the
doctors, it looks good for thehospital, and of course, it
would be good for me and myfamily.
But I had to first reallyunderstand why they may have
come to the conclusion that theydid.
So getting that second opinionwas very valuable, and then when
(18:12):
I was able to present thereasons why I might want
alternative uh treatments, thatthey actually heard me.
So going back to reallyunderstanding the language that
they use.
So one of the things that Ifirst did after that uh second
(18:34):
opinion was to change theallocated surgeon that I was
given.
And the reason why I wanted thatis because I wanted somebody who
had a tried and tested andsuccessful track record of
taking out lymph nodes uh and alumpectomy.
(18:56):
And I did my research, found adoctor that predominantly a
surgeon who predominantly workswith private patients.
My I was NHS, so it's slightlydifferent, but he agreed to be
my surgeon.
I then later on found out howdid you even get that person?
SPEAKER_01 (19:17):
Because I think your art of communication is quite
rare, and I think a lot ofpeople can learn through
Cecilia's art of communication,which is very clear, and making
sure you have, um, as youmentioned, the right questions.
But how do you even find thepeople?
And then what questions did youask them?
And how did you get them to sayyes?
Because I think everybody canbenefit from asking the right
(19:39):
questions and learning how toget a yes from people.
SPEAKER_03 (19:42):
Well, I think the thing is, is we are much better.
How can I explain it?
No man is an island, I think.
A famous quote has once wassaid, and we are much better
together.
And so my sharing of my storywith others led me to then find
(20:03):
people locally to me who had thesame surgeon.
But this name kept cropping up,cropping up, cropping up.
So then I did a Google search ofhim, you know, looked him up on
the uh the you know, the medicalum uh websites, and read a whole
load of reviews, what hisbackground was, and knew that he
(20:26):
was going to be the best bet forme, given the type of uh breast
cancer I had, and that it hadgone to the lymph nodes.
And so because of the mess upfrom before, I was able to ask,
you know, it's really importantthat I have the right team.
SPEAKER_01 (20:48):
So you went to go around and basically curate your
own team.
I think you touched on itearlier, but you also went and
tried to do your own thing byfinding a nutritionist as well,
hyperbaric chambers, starvingcancer cells with oxygen.
I mean, this is all fascinatingstuff.
So you're trying to meettraditional medicine with your
(21:10):
own holistic nutritional.
So you're trying to find, you'retrying to take back control
where it was kind of taken awayfrom you.
Now, I have to ask you aquestion.
Did this, when you were curatinga team, did this give you hope?
SPEAKER_03 (21:23):
Absolutely, because suddenly the doctors, the
oncologists, the nurses startedlistening and really hearing me.
It probably took about threemonths for them to see that I
was actually getting some reallygood results because I was
walking in to chemotherapy witha whole host, I was icing my
(21:47):
hands and my my feet so that Iwouldn't get peripheral
neuropathy, which is like anumbing of the fingers and the
toes, which can be permanent.
And I was talking about, youknow, that I had completely
overhauled my diet, no sugar, nodairy, no um um I like this
because this is a real practicalapproach to feeling, you know,
(22:08):
as we mentioned earlier, liketaking back control when it's
kind of it feels as though it'staken from you.
Experts like from breast cancercharities were telling me there
isn't one of them turned aroundafter I'd phoned them up and
they said, Look, I hope youunderstand love, but there is no
medical proof that changing yourdiet has any positive impact.
(22:32):
However, the fact that doing allof these additional
complementary treatments,including diet, meant that after
three months my tumour shrunkfrom 36 millimeters to 24
millimeters.
(22:53):
Then the following two months ofthe remainder of my my
chemotherapy, plus still doingthe diet, still doing hyperbaric
oxygen, still doing repurposeddrugs, it then shrunk a further
uh 66%, I think it was, to eightmillimeters.
SPEAKER_01 (23:11):
Uh just tell us a little bit about the hyperbaric
chamber because I know a lot oftennis players use hyperbaric
chambers.
Tell us a little bit about thisbecause a lot of people don't
necessarily understand whatoxygen is doing.
So, how is that helping you?
I I I can understand it myself,but I you can explain.
SPEAKER_03 (23:27):
I learned that cancer cells don't live or or
don't operate very well inintensive oxygenated
environments, right?
So you walk into this hyperbaricoxygen chamber, it's not
particularly pleasant,particularly if you feel a
little bit claustrophobic,you've got this sort of gas mask
(23:48):
on you, and you can be in therefor an hour and a half up to two
hours, okay, um taking in thisoxygen.
Sometimes it can make you feellightheaded, sometimes it can
you know make you feel a bitnauseous.
But what I was told was thatwhen you are having
(24:12):
chemotherapy, um if you fastbefore you do oxygen,
hyperbiotic oxygen, you youryour good cells, your healthy
cells, hibernate and theyprotect themselves until more
food or more nutrition fuelcomes their way.
(24:35):
But the cancer cells are dumband they just sit there in the
middle waiting for any morsel offood.
So that when I then after I'ddone a hyperbiotic oxygen, I'd
then go and have chemotherapy,maybe not the same day, but the
following day or a couple ofdays afterwards, those cells are
(24:55):
already weakened from the oxyoxygen, that therefore the
chemotherapy can then mop themup, but yet keeping the healthy
cells uh safe and reduced theamount of um side effects that I
received from chemotherapybecause I was keeping those
(25:16):
healthy cells safe.
SPEAKER_01 (25:18):
Right.
Interesting.
You went and go and do all yourstudy, so when you educate
yourself, then you can executewith the knowledge you get.
SPEAKER_03 (25:27):
Also, hyperbaric oxygen therapy, a bit like you
were talking about sportsathletes, etc., it heals bodies,
you know, after surgery andstuff, three times faster than
anything else.
SPEAKER_02 (25:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (25:42):
So whilst it was also helping me weaken the
cancer cells, it was alsohelping me heal quicker through
my surgeries.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:53):
It's really beautiful.
I've I've uh experienced thebenefits of oxygen uh chambers.
I've I used to do it for acouple of years when I lived in
Tokyo, they had they werealready out there.
You could go and uh have it haveit up your nose, and you had a
uh you could zip up bag and sitin this oxygen.
And um, it's fascinating howgood you feel, how well you
(26:14):
sleep, how radiant your skinlooks, how quicker you're able
to focus.
It's fascinating.
And of course, you know, whenyou're in the hospital and
patients can't breathe, thefirst thing they do is put you
on oxygen to help the body finda state of uh of balance.
Thank you for sharing that.
That's very interesting.
I guess that you know, as wesort of head towards the end of
(26:35):
that story, you you've you'vebeen taking complementary
medicine, nutrition, hyperbaricchambers, etc., and repurpose
drugs you mentioned.
And then you're also doing thechemo.
So, how what happened next, youknow, because this is that the
last bit of this story is reallyinteresting because you've shown
that asking the right questionsto the right doctors who you
(26:56):
didn't know, you had nobackground, managed to put you
in a position where you feltthat there was great hope that
could come from the situationwhere usually, when you're
giving a diagnosis, there's nohope, that's it.
SPEAKER_03 (27:11):
Well, I think the doctors around me realized that
I wasn't somebody who's gonnaroll over.
Uh, I was always going to fightmy corner and ask questions.
And I think in the end, theyreally respected me for that,
which then resulted almost whatI would say is the most
(27:35):
fantastic thing was I learnedthat having your lymph nodes
removed has you can't tellwhat's going to happen
afterwards.
But there was a lot of talk onthe Facebook groups that I was
following that people weregetting lymphedema, and
lymphedema is like a swelling ofyour limb.
unknown (27:54):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (27:54):
It can be very painful, it can involve you not
even being able to, you know,hold a pen.
And I play a lot of tennis, asyou know, and I really, really
didn't want anything to happento my arm as a result of having
my lymph nodes removed.
And so I learned through theseFacebook groups and through
reading that there is a surgery,and I think I think it's called
(28:20):
lymph anastomosis or somethinglike that, but basically, in
simple layman's terms, it meansa lymph bypass surgery, and it's
normally administeredpost-lymphedema, so once you've
got it, never is a preventativemeasure, or very rarely is a
preventative measure.
(28:40):
And so when I was told that Ineeded to have all my lymph
nodes removed in on in my rightarm, I challenged them and said,
Look, I really don't want thelymph nodes removed unless I can
have this lymph bypass surgery.
And they smiled and thoughtasked me, How on earth did I
(29:03):
know about this surgery?
And I explained.
And then the surgeon told methat that type of surgery
requires a plastic surgeon, andthey don't have plastic surgery
in the hospital that I was uhassigned to.
And to cut a very long storyshort, my surgeon was excited to
(29:25):
be involved in this new uh umtype of surgery, and so he used
his contacts and his network andgot me a meeting with a leading
plastic surgeon up in London,the guys in St.
Thomas's, and I went to have ameeting, and I will never forget
that I sat in this very smallroom with eight other nurses
(29:48):
waiting for this Mr.
SPEAKER_01 (29:50):
So and so that's a lot of people in one room,
right?
SPEAKER_03 (29:53):
Lots of people in one room, and there was no
explanation as to why they wereall there.
Okay, and everyone the the Theenvironment was electrically
charged, shall we say, withoutany words being spoken.
And shortly afterwards, in walksthis plastic surgeon, and I'm
(30:14):
seated in this tiny chair, andhe and there's an empty chair
right beside me.
And he comes and sits oppositeme, and he looks me in the eye.
And he says, I've heard a lotabout you.
And when you hear that, youthink, Is that a good thing?
Is it a bad thing?
SPEAKER_00 (30:32):
Are you talking to everybody?
You were literally somebodywho's not gonna take a no, are
you?
You were just not gonna take alook at the same.
SPEAKER_03 (30:38):
He turned around and said, Look, I've I've heard a
lot about you.
And I I answered by saying, Isthat a good thing?
Yeah, a bad thing, and he said,Well, I'm here on time.
Yeah, and I said, Okay, so hesaid, The challenge is I have to
persuade my board of trustees todo this surgery for free because
you're on the NHS.
(30:59):
And I turned around and said tohim, So what what's the
likelihood?
And he turned around and said tome, We'll see.
And then the next thing I knew,I was being booked in for
surgery and the rest of surgery.
SPEAKER_01 (31:13):
Okay, so you you were basically a a woman on a
mission who was not gonna take ano.
You know, I'm just trying tospeak it as it is, right?
You're a woman on a mission, notgonna take a no, you curate your
own team on the NHS, you'redoing a complimentary medicine,
you're learning about themedical know-how and speaking to
a language of a bunch of doctorsand plastic surgeons, and
(31:36):
they're they're kind ofquestioning themselves, how does
this person know what they'retalking about with zero medical
background?
I mean, where does that drivecome from, Cecilia?
SPEAKER_03 (31:46):
Well, I think you know, we grew up in a family
that loved playing Monopoly,loved playing cards and gin
rummy, etc., and playing gamesin the garden.
And we've always had a bit of acompetitive nature to our
personalities.
But I think when you have a lifeand potentially death situation
(32:08):
presented to you, I'm not gonnatake that lying down, and I
don't think you would either.
And so that inner fight verymuch stemmed from perhaps our
childhood and growing up, butthen it was also fighting for my
my family today, my children, myhusband, and to ensure that I
(32:32):
would give it every single lastbreath of my body to achieve the
goal of being cancer-free, whichI have.
SPEAKER_01 (32:41):
Yeah, and if you look at yourself now, you look
glowing, vital, alive.
I played Tennessee every day forthe last couple of weeks.
We were lucky enough to go awayand have a family holiday, which
is incredibly rare.
So it's great to see how healthyand vital you are now.
You know, I I really like yourethos of what you've shared and
(33:05):
how you're also taking that toalso show people, young people
coming into the workplace, howyou're helping them.
Your art of communication andcurating a team and being able
to ask the right questions hassort of found its way into what
you're doing with your work andyour coaching.
Tell us a little bit about that,because I think your art of
(33:28):
communication could be learnt.
It's saved your life, it's givenyour kids, you know, extension
of life with their mum, yourhusband as well.
This is really beautiful becauseasking the right questions and
communicating clearly canliterally save your life and can
heal it in beautiful ways.
And I know you're doing thatwith the clients that you're
(33:48):
working with.
Tell us a little bit about that.
SPEAKER_03 (33:52):
So I'm a career coach and I help both young
people leaving school oruniversity entering the job
marketplace for the first timeby helping them navigate the job
marketplace and teaching themhow to formulate their
individual story.
But I also work with mothersreturning to the workplace after
(34:15):
having raised a family.
And quite often, the women thatI work with don't want to do
what they did before, they wantto find a job or a career that
works around their family, orthey quite often they want to
have more purpose and meaning intheir jobs.
SPEAKER_01 (34:31):
That's so interesting because we all need
purpose and meaning, and beingpaid is great, but unless
there's meaning or purposebehind it, you feel a bit flat.
So, how how do you help peoplefind their purpose, or do they
already know, and then you tryand help them?
SPEAKER_03 (34:45):
Sometimes they know, but quite often they don't, but
they're also coming from a froma place whether they're young or
they've got more experience.
Quite often they come to me withreally lacking a lot of
confidence.
SPEAKER_02 (34:56):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (34:57):
And part of that is because they don't know yet what
their value is, what they canbring to the table.
And so I do a lot of work withpeople in helping them clarify
what their strengths are, whatthey're what they enjoy doing,
and then helping them build uponthat, their story as to their
(35:22):
why, why they want to go downthat path.
Because the clearer you areabout what's important to you in
life and how you want to showup, the more authentic and more
credible your story is to apotential employer.
SPEAKER_01 (35:38):
It's the same with your story, uh, which was why I
was asking you.
Well, you know, why did you goto the lengths that you did to
try and curate a team and getthe complimentary medicine,
etc., and do those things everysecond of your waking hour uh
during that treatment.
You know, your why was yourfamily, your why was, you know,
that was massive to you.
And you know, that was yourpurpose.
(35:59):
Your purpose was I'm gonna finda way to get myself back to a
great state of wellness again.
And when you're asking thepeople their why, you know, to
get back into the workplace,you're you're tapping into that
same emotional drive.
SPEAKER_03 (36:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:16):
Amazing.
So what's happening next?
You know, the people that cometo you, how do you help them
communicate in a way that isempowering to them if they don't
feel that confident?
SPEAKER_03 (36:28):
Well, what I say to all of them, and this is this is
you know, I know you and I havehad conversations about this,
and you know, we are on the samepage here.
But you may recall me sayingthat I there's this mantra that
that I really adhered to, whichis the quality of the response
(36:48):
you get from someone else isonly ever going to be as good as
the quality of the communicationyou give.
So in an interview situation ortalking to members of family,
you know, family members or evenyour children, other people,
your partner, yourrelationships.
If you want somebody to reallyhear what you're about to say in
(37:13):
order to get the best possibleresponse, you first have to ask
yourself is the other personready and in the right emotional
state to really hear what I haveto say?
So there's this exercise that Ido, uh, and then I have had to
sort of self-coach myself when Iwas talking to these doctors.
(37:35):
Is what do you want this personto feel, think, and then do as a
result of your communication?
SPEAKER_01 (37:46):
Okay.
So with a doctor, for instance,how did you want them to feel?
SPEAKER_03 (37:51):
I wanted them to feel empathy to me.
I wanted I wanted them to feelimpressed that I had done my
homework.
I wanted them to sit up andreally hear what I had to say so
they knew that they weren'twasting their time and they
weren't just talking to somebodywho hadn't just another number,
another patient.
(38:11):
Just another number.
I wanted to be memorable.
I wanted to be able to walk outof that any meeting that I had
with them, with them learningsomething new, even about them
as a doctor.
SPEAKER_02 (38:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (38:25):
And then what I wanted them to think about me
was wow, this is a determinedyoung lady.
I know that she's going, youknow, she's going to go far,
that she's going to get theresults that she wants, and
she's not going to stop untilshe can achieve that.
But not in a way that wasbamboozling them or like a like
a china shop or anything likethat.
(38:48):
Somebody who, with calm andclarity, was able to muddle
their way through their thoughtprocesses in a way that would
make them really hear what I hadto say.
Because what I needed them to dowas let me have my choice of
(39:08):
surgeon, plastic surgeon, uh theother team that I, as you to use
your words, so beautifullycurated around me.
SPEAKER_01 (39:19):
And that got me the results I wanted, which was a
clean bill of health, right?
Yeah, cancer free.
So just in closing, I love thatexercise.
So you've got to ask them towhat does the person want to
feel?
What do you want them to do,think, and what do you want them
to do?
SPEAKER_03 (39:38):
And the reason being the feel bit is almost the most
important, but it is the mostchallenging.
SPEAKER_02 (39:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (39:46):
Because in order to get somebody else to actually do
something for you in the waythat you want them to do it, you
first have to elicit a gutfeeling from that person.
SPEAKER_01 (40:00):
So this isn't manipulation, this is like this
needs to be authentic, thisneeds to be genuine, right?
There's a genuine authenticcommunication.
SPEAKER_03 (40:07):
Yes.
If this person, if the otherperson feels nothing about your
experience or your words, oryour communication, they aren't
going to be motivated to doanything about it.
SPEAKER_00 (40:19):
Sure.
SPEAKER_03 (40:20):
So if you are clear and understand what kind of
emotion you want this person tofeel, the other person to feel,
then you can work backwards byunderstanding what content you
need to say in order to produce.
SPEAKER_01 (40:38):
So give me an example of how you could apply
this, just let's say, in apersonal relationship.
SPEAKER_03 (40:45):
So, for example, say you're having an argument, you
know, with your partner, youhave a dis you're having a
disagreement, and it perhaps hasgone on for a few weeks now, and
you want to resolve it or youwant to find a way through it.
SPEAKER_02 (41:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (41:01):
But you keep, you know, you're you're you're both
at loggerheads.
You have, you know, one personhas one idea and the other
person has the other idea.
So if you really want the otherperson to hear your side of
things, you've got to leave theego at the door.
And you have to ask yourself,okay, clearly something's not
(41:22):
working, the communication's notworking.
SPEAKER_02 (41:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (41:26):
So what do I want my partner to feel about my what
I'm telling them?
And quite often it might be, youknow, I've my husband and I,
we've had arguments over theyears, you know, how we want to
bring up the children or thechallenges that we have with,
(41:47):
you know, arranging the house,etc.
Whatever that whatever theymight be.
And the moment I could leave myego at the door and tap into
what his needs were, what wasimportant to him.
That then allowed him to want tothen hear a bit more about what
(42:11):
I had to say.
So showing some vulnerabilitybecame really, really valuable,
you know, rather than steppingback and just allowing some
space for some vulnerability.
SPEAKER_01 (42:23):
I like that, just leaving the ego at the door to
show that you're willing to finda way or create a way, whatever
that is, but with their help.
Correct.
But what I really like, you alsowanted to get a yes from them
that they wanted to help you.
And I love that that you're alsohelping people come back to work
or get the job of their dreams,you're helping people with that
(42:46):
process, maybe when they'refeeling a lack of confidence,
and then you actually empowerthem to have that confidence as
they they show up.
And I and I and I like thatbecause I think the more that
we're able to put our ego aside,I think the more we have greater
genuine connection.
Yeah, and actually, in truth,that also gives you a greater
state of health and wellness aswell, because you know, you're
(43:09):
not fighting and resisting thedesperate need of you know
acknowledgement and validationfrom everybody, you're getting
it from yourself.
Uh Steel, it's been reallyenjoyable having this
conversation.
You're an extraordinary story,really extraordinary story, and
you know, it's in my own familyas well.
So I just wanted to share someappreciation for you, not only
(43:32):
as my sister, but just assomebody who who has you know
the willingness to listen tothemselves and not take a note
when and try and find asolution.
And I think your story is one ofthere is always a way if you
look for it and you're willingto move your feet, and even
though you weren't didn't knowwhat to do or understand the
(43:54):
medical background, you found away.
And I really like your story somuch because I just think it can
inspire other people to find away in their own lives with
whatever challenges that they'vegot going on, and find a way to
get there, yes.
So I'd just really like to alsocongratulate you on what you're
doing with your work and howyou're helping other people get
(44:17):
back into the workplace andfinding their jobs of their
dreams, and we'll have all yourdetails underneath this episode
of how you can help people getthe jobs of their dreams, but
more importantly, how you canempower them to find their own
confidence.
Is there anything you'd like theaudience to know, just in
closing?
SPEAKER_03 (44:34):
I think nothing is hopeless as long as you are able
to find that positivity fromsomewhere, there is always hope.
And we are better together as asa team, as people around us.
So there is you don't need to dostuff on your own.
(44:56):
So find the right team aroundyou, whether that's your
friends, your family, yourdoctor the doctors, etc.
But together we are definitelybetter than on our own.
SPEAKER_01 (45:06):
Thank you, Cecilia.
Cecilia's this week's Super SoulModel.
unknown (45:10):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (45:12):
Thanks for tuning into this episode.
And if you enjoyed it, pleasehelp us hit the like, subscribe,
and share button and share itwith somebody who you think
would really appreciate thistype of message.
Because in doing so, you'rehelping the channel grow and
helping the algorithm.
So just want to give you a bigthanks, and until the next
episode, I wish you green lightsall the way.
This week's guest is an extraordinary woman, a stage
core cancer survivor and careercoach, Cecilia Garner.
She's a little unusual as aguest because she's also my
older sister.
Cecilia's here to share herinspiring journey and the
powerful lessons she's learnedalong the way.
SPEAKER_03 (00:19):
Nothing is hopeless as long as you are able to find
that positivity from somewhere,and we are better together as a
team, as people around us.
So there is you don't need to dostuff on your own.
SPEAKER_01 (00:37):
Hello and welcome to the James Grantham Podcast Super
Town Model series.
This week we are joined by anextraordinary person who is not
only a fantastic coach, but isalso my sister.
And I'd like to introduceCecilia Garnet, who is a
seasoned career coach with over20 years of experience in
recruitment, talent development,and guiding young people and
(00:59):
professionals towards careersthat genuinely lie with their
strength and their story.
Cecilia's delivered hundreds oftalks to coach families
one-to-one and recently designeda powerful employability program
for social disadvantagedteenagers, including those with
special needs.
She's our Swedish, married to aNew Zealander with two amazing
(01:19):
kids, my nephew and niece, andshe's a stage four cancer
survivor.
And in this episode, we aregoing to explore communication
in a way that will not onlyempower you, but will show you
exactly what you need to do inorder to help yourself go to the
next level.
I'd like to welcome CeciliaGarnett to this week's episode.
SPEAKER_03 (01:40):
Thank you so much for having me, James.
SPEAKER_01 (01:43):
Well, first and foremost, I would just like to
say this is very rare becauseI'll never have any members of
my family on the podcast.
And I just wanted to appreciateyou and your journey and applaud
you for how you've handledperhaps one of the most
difficult things that peoplecould face and how you've come
(02:03):
back from that.
And I think the whole purpose ofthe Super Town Model series is
to show people who are rolemodels who can show us the way
when life gets really tough.
And your story, you know, I'veyou know, my you're my sister,
but your story is inspiring, andI think it could help millions
of people, and that's why Ireally wanted to have you on
this episode.
(02:24):
So it's very rare to have mysister or any member of my
family for that matter on thisepisode.
So I just wanted to give youfirst a warm welcome and an
introduction.
And I'd if you could, I'd loveyou to share your story.
So let's just cast your mindback to a few years ago when you
were diagnosed, because I thinkunderstanding your story will
(02:47):
give people some clarity abouthow that your story could
inspire them.
SPEAKER_03 (02:55):
Okay, so um it was July 21, I found a lump
completely accidentally, noother symptoms whatsoever.
The lump was the size of a golfball, so it was officially 36
millimeters.
And I was told that if I was tohave surgery straight away, I
(03:22):
would have to have a mastectomy.
So they instead wanted to tryand shrink it with chemotherapy,
five months worth ofchemotherapy.
Um back when they gave me thatdiagnosis, I had to go in for
various different um MRI, CTscans, PET scans, etc., because
(03:43):
they needed to assess whether ornot the cancer had spread beyond
my my breast.
And what they found was that ithad indeed uh reached um my
lymph nodes, which automaticallymakes you go makes you go from
stage two diagnosis to a stagethree diagnosis.
(04:09):
What transpired after that wasyou may recall, I came out to
Spain to tell you and our motherthe news because I wanted you to
hear it in person rather thanjust over the phone.
But upon my return, they broughtme in for further conversations,
(04:31):
and the stand-in oncologist atthe time told me that my
diagnosis was no longer stagethree, and actually it was stage
four.
Now, for those who areunfamiliar with the staging of
of or cancer diagnoses, stage touse his words, he told me that
(04:55):
um because they have foundadditional inflammation in my
body, namely in my groin and inmy lung, that that therefore
meant that I had more cancer.
And that more cancer meant thatI was now stage four.
He told me that he was gonnapull my future um chemotherapy
(05:21):
treatments.
I was not going to have any umsurgery, and they were gonna
have to figure out a protocolfor me to be put on.
At that moment, when I got giventhat diagnosis, I was
dumbfounded.
Okay, you know, I had hadseveral diagnoses in that short
(05:41):
space of time across those fewweeks.
And each time I seemed to go in,I seemed to like have a shock.
Um and I just didn't understand.
I mean, I didn't want surgery,really, no one wants surgery,
but to then have it pulled mademe feel like I didn't have a
choice and I just had to sort ofgo along with it.
(06:04):
And I asked him, you know, whywhy why are you pulling all of
this additional treatment thatyou guys had initially you know
laid out for me?
And he turned around and said,You're stage four, which means
you're terminal.
So what's the point?
SPEAKER_01 (06:20):
So when you hear words like that, how did that
make you feel in that moment?
SPEAKER_03 (06:26):
Hopeless.
I mean, I am naturally afighter, but here was a doctor
with loads of letters after hisname, you know, he's been
practicing for years as anoncologist, radio, radio, um,
radiographer, and he was tellingme, who has no medical
(06:48):
background, um, that pretty muchI had a finite I'm out of time
to live.
SPEAKER_01 (06:55):
So you got a husband, you've got two kids,
you got a family.
SPEAKER_03 (06:58):
They were 10 and 12 at the time, so still young,
still need their mother.
I mean, all children need theirmother at whatever age, but I
just I I just didn't get it, andI just felt so unempowered that
I had to hear his reasons as towhy they were not going to
(07:19):
follow through on the originaltreatment plan.
Yeah, and you know, I was reallyupset.
SPEAKER_01 (07:26):
Yeah, naturally.
It's it's it I just wanted tosay there's a you know, I think
there are some amazing doctors,but sometimes they just look at
the the symptoms and just tellyou what is, and that when
you're told what is, you canfeel so disempowered, as you
said, and then it's like what doyou need next?
(07:47):
But you know, Cecilia, yourstory just doesn't stop there at
all.
That's just the beginning.
And I remember when I was inSpain looking after our mother
at the same time, just thinking,Wow, what's gonna happen next?
you know, and you you know, wewe were thinking, How can we
help?
You know, the only thing wecould do is pray every day.
(08:08):
But you know, I like thisterminology by the Quakers, they
say pray whilst you move yourfeet, and that's exactly what
you were doing.
So, how did you handle what camenext?
You know, you had the diagnosis,you probably felt, as you said,
like hopeless, and the rest ofit.
Now, what happened next?
What how did you handle this?
Because this is a lot of thingsthat some people may get a
(08:29):
diagnosis and think, Well, whatdo I do?
SPEAKER_03 (08:32):
So, the first thing it was it wasn't this didn't
happen overnight, it was very itwas gradual, but timing is of
the essence.
This is what I've learned.
So, when I was brave enough toshare my diagnosis with other
people around me, I then gotintroduced to some very
(08:56):
inspirational people who hadcome through at the other end,
and that led me to anintroduction to an amazing
functional nutritionist, andalso led me to another
organization that supportscancer patients through
complementary treatmentsalongside traditional
(09:19):
chemotherapy and radiotherapyand surgery, um, such as
hyperbaric oxygen therapy,infrared sauna, repurposed
drugs, all which work in tandemwith the uh more traditional uh
treatments that are on offerwith an or you know with a with
(09:40):
a system like the NHS.
SPEAKER_01 (09:41):
I really I really like that because you're just
trying to take anything you canget your hands on to be able to
assist yourself so you gain somelevel of control because it must
have felt like you were out ofcontrol, right?
SPEAKER_03 (09:53):
Well, I lost all control in terms of the doctors,
the doctors were making all thedecisions for me, and I had to
go along with it.
SPEAKER_02 (10:00):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (10:01):
But what I learned was that you don't have to go
along with it, or you areallowed to put in requests, or
you're allowed to ask questions.
And I from short very shortlyafter that, I started doing a
lot of reading.
I joined a lot of um specialistFacebook groups on breast
(10:25):
cancer, yeah.
Um, and started reading otherpeople's stories, understanding
the challenges that they'dfaced.
And you know, it's differentfrom country to country.
Um, but here in the UK, youknow, we're really lucky that
we've got the NHS and they do afantastic job, but they're
still, you know, a lot of thesedoctors and nurses are are human
just like us, and they can getit wrong.
(10:48):
And what transpired was thatoncologist who gave me that
terminal, you know, stage fourdiagnosis was actually
incorrect.
And I used my network ofcontacts and and managed to find
a way to get an appointment withthe leading breastcare uh
(11:11):
specialist at the Marsden, who,when I explained my story, had
agreed to see me for a secondopinion because you know I
really needed to know if thiswas really it's fair, it's fair
enough, right?
SPEAKER_01 (11:29):
If you're gonna give a terminal diagnosis, you want a
second opinion because you don'twant to just take it.
Because there are a lot of caseswhere people receive a diagnosis
and within a short amount oftime they're gone, they pass
away.
But but you you wanted a secondopinion, you know, that's
natural within I think withinyour own your own psyche.
I think the way Sicilia's builtis let me find another way.
(11:50):
If this is the first you know,diagnosis, is there is there
something else?
So you went to go and see whathappened next.
SPEAKER_03 (11:57):
So I don't know if you remember this, James, but
the last day that we were inSpain when I came to tell you
and our mother the news, I gotstung by a jellyfish.
SPEAKER_01 (12:07):
I remember that.
SPEAKER_03 (12:14):
I all only put my foot in and I got stung.
SPEAKER_02 (12:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (12:18):
But that and it was quite a bad sting, it became
very inflamed.
Now, I don't know if yourlisteners know about this, but I
learned about it that your lymphnodes are in place to eliminate
toxins from your body.
Okay, and a light or a sting,like a jellyfish sting, makes
(12:43):
your lymph nodes work withoverload.
And didn't know that that wasthe reason why I had more
inflammation elsewhere in mybody due to the jellyfish sting.
So when that was clarified byProfessor Johnson at the
(13:05):
Marsden, it I could go back tomy hospital that I had
originally started the treatmentwith and explain the second
opinion or have that re-lookedat.
And I was then taken back to astage three diagnosis, which
meant all the treatment was backon the table.
SPEAKER_01 (13:28):
Wow, just there's something as normal as well, I
wouldn't say normal to getstunned by a jellyfish, but
something that is so abstractcan come across and change a
diagnosis.
So, does that mean the firstdoctor was wrong because of the
jellyfish sting?
And that's the reason.
So he didn't know, and none ofyou knew.
SPEAKER_03 (13:48):
Well, interestingly enough, they did know because
they ask you right at thebeginning when you have your
chemotherapy, just before aboutyour house to have your
chemotherapy treatment, yeah,whether or not you have been
stung or bitten.
And so when you hear that, Ithought, oh, have I been stung
by a bee or have I been bittenby a dog?
And the answer to that was no.
But I did mention, well, I don'tknow if it's relevant, but I
(14:11):
have just been stung by ajellyfish, and they said, No,
that is relevant.
So it was in my notes.
But this doctor, thisoncologist, didn't read my
notes, and so he made he jumpedto a conclusion that was
absolutely right.
SPEAKER_01 (14:22):
Can I ask a question then?
Because this is really importantto the audience.
As you know, we are quick to getsomething or receive some news.
Uh, maybe at some time I alwayslike to think when you're going
out shopping, you get a firstprice when you're given a quote.
Is that the first quote you sayyes to?
And in this case, it's it's alot more severe, you're getting
(14:43):
a diagnosis um or you'rereceiving one, but that doesn't
mean you have to accept it.
I think that there is a greatdeal of strength within each of
us, demonstrated by you,Cecilia, which is saying, I'm
not having this, I think thatthere's another way.
And I and I think that sometimeswe can fall prey to to being
(15:04):
human and going, Oh, I can't doanything else.
That is very normal and humanbecause sometimes that is the
bottom of we're hitting rock,bottom.
SPEAKER_03 (15:13):
Especially when you are presented with information
from an expert.
Yeah, I'm not a medical expert,I have not had any medical
training whatsoever.
So I had to very, very quicklylearn the language that they
(15:34):
talk so that I could haveconversations on a similar level
with the knowledge that what Iwas learning was relevant, but
not just that, that they wouldhear what I was saying, so that
when I was presenting myquestions and challenging some
of their theories, that I wouldactually be heard by them rather
(16:00):
than overlooked because I'mwasn't a medic or a doctor
myself.
SPEAKER_01 (16:05):
You could potentially just a patient,
another number with anothercase.
SPEAKER_03 (16:09):
Correct.
SPEAKER_01 (16:09):
So we're we're all important, everybody listening,
everyone in the world, we're allimportant.
So, how did you manage tocommunicate what you needed to
communicate, and what exactlydid you need to say?
Because I think communication isthe main theme of today.
Your ability to communicate whatyou needed, given the
(16:30):
information that you'd acquired.
I mean, not many people want togo and learn like what you had
to learn given you knew nothing,but your life was on the line,
your family's on the line, yourkids' lives are on the line.
SPEAKER_03 (16:42):
So I think for me, the emotion I first tapped into
was I don't understand, I don'tget it.
And so I became a detectiveovernight, almost like an
investigator.
And I wanted to find out as muchas I possibly could do about my
(17:05):
type of cancer, because all thecancers are you know different
and treated slightlydifferently, and I just wanted
to know as much as possible sothat I could ask questions, and
then in asking the questions,then I could understand why this
is the case or why that might behappening.
And the more I found out, themore I was then able to present
(17:28):
an alternative or a suggestionto the specialists, to the
experts, to get the best kind oftreatment for me.
And that allowed me to prove andshow them that I was committed
to achieving the best possibleresult, which would be
(17:51):
beneficial for all involved, youknow, it looks good for the
doctors, it looks good for thehospital, and of course, it
would be good for me and myfamily.
But I had to first reallyunderstand why they may have
come to the conclusion that theydid.
So getting that second opinionwas very valuable, and then when
(18:12):
I was able to present thereasons why I might want
alternative uh treatments, thatthey actually heard me.
So going back to reallyunderstanding the language that
they use.
So one of the things that Ifirst did after that uh second
(18:34):
opinion was to change theallocated surgeon that I was
given.
And the reason why I wanted thatis because I wanted somebody who
had a tried and tested andsuccessful track record of
taking out lymph nodes uh and alumpectomy.
(18:56):
And I did my research, found adoctor that predominantly a
surgeon who predominantly workswith private patients.
My I was NHS, so it's slightlydifferent, but he agreed to be
my surgeon.
I then later on found out howdid you even get that person?
SPEAKER_01 (19:17):
Because I think your art of communication is quite
rare, and I think a lot ofpeople can learn through
Cecilia's art of communication,which is very clear, and making
sure you have, um, as youmentioned, the right questions.
But how do you even find thepeople?
And then what questions did youask them?
And how did you get them to sayyes?
Because I think everybody canbenefit from asking the right
(19:39):
questions and learning how toget a yes from people.
SPEAKER_03 (19:42):
Well, I think the thing is, is we are much better.
How can I explain it?
No man is an island, I think.
A famous quote has once wassaid, and we are much better
together.
And so my sharing of my storywith others led me to then find
(20:03):
people locally to me who had thesame surgeon.
But this name kept cropping up,cropping up, cropping up.
So then I did a Google search ofhim, you know, looked him up on
the uh the you know, the medicalum uh websites, and read a whole
load of reviews, what hisbackground was, and knew that he
(20:26):
was going to be the best bet forme, given the type of uh breast
cancer I had, and that it hadgone to the lymph nodes.
And so because of the mess upfrom before, I was able to ask,
you know, it's really importantthat I have the right team.
SPEAKER_01 (20:48):
So you went to go around and basically curate your
own team.
I think you touched on itearlier, but you also went and
tried to do your own thing byfinding a nutritionist as well,
hyperbaric chambers, starvingcancer cells with oxygen.
I mean, this is all fascinatingstuff.
So you're trying to meettraditional medicine with your
(21:10):
own holistic nutritional.
So you're trying to find, you'retrying to take back control
where it was kind of taken awayfrom you.
Now, I have to ask you aquestion.
Did this, when you were curatinga team, did this give you hope?
SPEAKER_03 (21:23):
Absolutely, because suddenly the doctors, the
oncologists, the nurses startedlistening and really hearing me.
It probably took about threemonths for them to see that I
was actually getting some reallygood results because I was
walking in to chemotherapy witha whole host, I was icing my
(21:47):
hands and my my feet so that Iwouldn't get peripheral
neuropathy, which is like anumbing of the fingers and the
toes, which can be permanent.
And I was talking about, youknow, that I had completely
overhauled my diet, no sugar, nodairy, no um um I like this
because this is a real practicalapproach to feeling, you know,
(22:08):
as we mentioned earlier, liketaking back control when it's
kind of it feels as though it'staken from you.
Experts like from breast cancercharities were telling me there
isn't one of them turned aroundafter I'd phoned them up and
they said, Look, I hope youunderstand love, but there is no
medical proof that changing yourdiet has any positive impact.
(22:32):
However, the fact that doing allof these additional
complementary treatments,including diet, meant that after
three months my tumour shrunkfrom 36 millimeters to 24
millimeters.
(22:53):
Then the following two months ofthe remainder of my my
chemotherapy, plus still doingthe diet, still doing hyperbaric
oxygen, still doing repurposeddrugs, it then shrunk a further
uh 66%, I think it was, to eightmillimeters.
SPEAKER_01 (23:11):
Uh just tell us a little bit about the hyperbaric
chamber because I know a lot oftennis players use hyperbaric
chambers.
Tell us a little bit about thisbecause a lot of people don't
necessarily understand whatoxygen is doing.
So, how is that helping you?
I I I can understand it myself,but I you can explain.
SPEAKER_03 (23:27):
I learned that cancer cells don't live or or
don't operate very well inintensive oxygenated
environments, right?
So you walk into this hyperbaricoxygen chamber, it's not
particularly pleasant,particularly if you feel a
little bit claustrophobic,you've got this sort of gas mask
(23:48):
on you, and you can be in therefor an hour and a half up to two
hours, okay, um taking in thisoxygen.
Sometimes it can make you feellightheaded, sometimes it can
you know make you feel a bitnauseous.
But what I was told was thatwhen you are having
(24:12):
chemotherapy, um if you fastbefore you do oxygen,
hyperbiotic oxygen, you youryour good cells, your healthy
cells, hibernate and theyprotect themselves until more
food or more nutrition fuelcomes their way.
(24:35):
But the cancer cells are dumband they just sit there in the
middle waiting for any morsel offood.
So that when I then after I'ddone a hyperbiotic oxygen, I'd
then go and have chemotherapy,maybe not the same day, but the
following day or a couple ofdays afterwards, those cells are
(24:55):
already weakened from the oxyoxygen, that therefore the
chemotherapy can then mop themup, but yet keeping the healthy
cells uh safe and reduced theamount of um side effects that I
received from chemotherapybecause I was keeping those
(25:16):
healthy cells safe.
SPEAKER_01 (25:18):
Right.
Interesting.
You went and go and do all yourstudy, so when you educate
yourself, then you can executewith the knowledge you get.
SPEAKER_03 (25:27):
Also, hyperbaric oxygen therapy, a bit like you
were talking about sportsathletes, etc., it heals bodies,
you know, after surgery andstuff, three times faster than
anything else.
SPEAKER_02 (25:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (25:42):
So whilst it was also helping me weaken the
cancer cells, it was alsohelping me heal quicker through
my surgeries.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:53):
It's really beautiful.
I've I've uh experienced thebenefits of oxygen uh chambers.
I've I used to do it for acouple of years when I lived in
Tokyo, they had they werealready out there.
You could go and uh have it haveit up your nose, and you had a
uh you could zip up bag and sitin this oxygen.
And um, it's fascinating howgood you feel, how well you
(26:14):
sleep, how radiant your skinlooks, how quicker you're able
to focus.
It's fascinating.
And of course, you know, whenyou're in the hospital and
patients can't breathe, thefirst thing they do is put you
on oxygen to help the body finda state of uh of balance.
Thank you for sharing that.
That's very interesting.
I guess that you know, as wesort of head towards the end of
(26:35):
that story, you you've you'vebeen taking complementary
medicine, nutrition, hyperbaricchambers, etc., and repurpose
drugs you mentioned.
And then you're also doing thechemo.
So, how what happened next, youknow, because this is that the
last bit of this story is reallyinteresting because you've shown
that asking the right questionsto the right doctors who you
(26:56):
didn't know, you had nobackground, managed to put you
in a position where you feltthat there was great hope that
could come from the situationwhere usually, when you're
giving a diagnosis, there's nohope, that's it.
SPEAKER_03 (27:11):
Well, I think the doctors around me realized that
I wasn't somebody who's gonnaroll over.
Uh, I was always going to fightmy corner and ask questions.
And I think in the end, theyreally respected me for that,
which then resulted almost whatI would say is the most
(27:35):
fantastic thing was I learnedthat having your lymph nodes
removed has you can't tellwhat's going to happen
afterwards.
But there was a lot of talk onthe Facebook groups that I was
following that people weregetting lymphedema, and
lymphedema is like a swelling ofyour limb.
unknown (27:54):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (27:54):
It can be very painful, it can involve you not
even being able to, you know,hold a pen.
And I play a lot of tennis, asyou know, and I really, really
didn't want anything to happento my arm as a result of having
my lymph nodes removed.
And so I learned through theseFacebook groups and through
reading that there is a surgery,and I think I think it's called
(28:20):
lymph anastomosis or somethinglike that, but basically, in
simple layman's terms, it meansa lymph bypass surgery, and it's
normally administeredpost-lymphedema, so once you've
got it, never is a preventativemeasure, or very rarely is a
preventative measure.
(28:40):
And so when I was told that Ineeded to have all my lymph
nodes removed in on in my rightarm, I challenged them and said,
Look, I really don't want thelymph nodes removed unless I can
have this lymph bypass surgery.
And they smiled and thoughtasked me, How on earth did I
(29:03):
know about this surgery?
And I explained.
And then the surgeon told methat that type of surgery
requires a plastic surgeon, andthey don't have plastic surgery
in the hospital that I was uhassigned to.
And to cut a very long storyshort, my surgeon was excited to
(29:25):
be involved in this new uh umtype of surgery, and so he used
his contacts and his network andgot me a meeting with a leading
plastic surgeon up in London,the guys in St.
Thomas's, and I went to have ameeting, and I will never forget
that I sat in this very smallroom with eight other nurses
(29:48):
waiting for this Mr.
SPEAKER_01 (29:50):
So and so that's a lot of people in one room,
right?
SPEAKER_03 (29:53):
Lots of people in one room, and there was no
explanation as to why they wereall there.
Okay, and everyone the the Theenvironment was electrically
charged, shall we say, withoutany words being spoken.
And shortly afterwards, in walksthis plastic surgeon, and I'm
(30:14):
seated in this tiny chair, andhe and there's an empty chair
right beside me.
And he comes and sits oppositeme, and he looks me in the eye.
And he says, I've heard a lotabout you.
And when you hear that, youthink, Is that a good thing?
Is it a bad thing?
SPEAKER_00 (30:32):
Are you talking to everybody?
You were literally somebodywho's not gonna take a no, are
you?
You were just not gonna take alook at the same.
SPEAKER_03 (30:38):
He turned around and said, Look, I've I've heard a
lot about you.
And I I answered by saying, Isthat a good thing?
Yeah, a bad thing, and he said,Well, I'm here on time.
Yeah, and I said, Okay, so hesaid, The challenge is I have to
persuade my board of trustees todo this surgery for free because
you're on the NHS.
(30:59):
And I turned around and said tohim, So what what's the
likelihood?
And he turned around and said tome, We'll see.
And then the next thing I knew,I was being booked in for
surgery and the rest of surgery.
SPEAKER_01 (31:13):
Okay, so you you were basically a a woman on a
mission who was not gonna take ano.
You know, I'm just trying tospeak it as it is, right?
You're a woman on a mission, notgonna take a no, you curate your
own team on the NHS, you'redoing a complimentary medicine,
you're learning about themedical know-how and speaking to
a language of a bunch of doctorsand plastic surgeons, and
(31:36):
they're they're kind ofquestioning themselves, how does
this person know what they'retalking about with zero medical
background?
I mean, where does that drivecome from, Cecilia?
SPEAKER_03 (31:46):
Well, I think you know, we grew up in a family
that loved playing Monopoly,loved playing cards and gin
rummy, etc., and playing gamesin the garden.
And we've always had a bit of acompetitive nature to our
personalities.
But I think when you have a lifeand potentially death situation
(32:08):
presented to you, I'm not gonnatake that lying down, and I
don't think you would either.
And so that inner fight verymuch stemmed from perhaps our
childhood and growing up, butthen it was also fighting for my
my family today, my children, myhusband, and to ensure that I
(32:32):
would give it every single lastbreath of my body to achieve the
goal of being cancer-free, whichI have.
SPEAKER_01 (32:41):
Yeah, and if you look at yourself now, you look
glowing, vital, alive.
I played Tennessee every day forthe last couple of weeks.
We were lucky enough to go awayand have a family holiday, which
is incredibly rare.
So it's great to see how healthyand vital you are now.
You know, I I really like yourethos of what you've shared and
(33:05):
how you're also taking that toalso show people, young people
coming into the workplace, howyou're helping them.
Your art of communication andcurating a team and being able
to ask the right questions hassort of found its way into what
you're doing with your work andyour coaching.
Tell us a little bit about that,because I think your art of
(33:28):
communication could be learnt.
It's saved your life, it's givenyour kids, you know, extension
of life with their mum, yourhusband as well.
This is really beautiful becauseasking the right questions and
communicating clearly canliterally save your life and can
heal it in beautiful ways.
And I know you're doing thatwith the clients that you're
(33:48):
working with.
Tell us a little bit about that.
SPEAKER_03 (33:52):
So I'm a career coach and I help both young
people leaving school oruniversity entering the job
marketplace for the first timeby helping them navigate the job
marketplace and teaching themhow to formulate their
individual story.
But I also work with mothersreturning to the workplace after
(34:15):
having raised a family.
And quite often, the women thatI work with don't want to do
what they did before, they wantto find a job or a career that
works around their family, orthey quite often they want to
have more purpose and meaning intheir jobs.
SPEAKER_01 (34:31):
That's so interesting because we all need
purpose and meaning, and beingpaid is great, but unless
there's meaning or purposebehind it, you feel a bit flat.
So, how how do you help peoplefind their purpose, or do they
already know, and then you tryand help them?
SPEAKER_03 (34:45):
Sometimes they know, but quite often they don't, but
they're also coming from a froma place whether they're young or
they've got more experience.
Quite often they come to me withreally lacking a lot of
confidence.
SPEAKER_02 (34:56):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (34:57):
And part of that is because they don't know yet what
their value is, what they canbring to the table.
And so I do a lot of work withpeople in helping them clarify
what their strengths are, whatthey're what they enjoy doing,
and then helping them build uponthat, their story as to their
(35:22):
why, why they want to go downthat path.
Because the clearer you areabout what's important to you in
life and how you want to showup, the more authentic and more
credible your story is to apotential employer.
SPEAKER_01 (35:38):
It's the same with your story, uh, which was why I
was asking you.
Well, you know, why did you goto the lengths that you did to
try and curate a team and getthe complimentary medicine,
etc., and do those things everysecond of your waking hour uh
during that treatment.
You know, your why was yourfamily, your why was, you know,
that was massive to you.
And you know, that was yourpurpose.
(35:59):
Your purpose was I'm gonna finda way to get myself back to a
great state of wellness again.
And when you're asking thepeople their why, you know, to
get back into the workplace,you're you're tapping into that
same emotional drive.
SPEAKER_03 (36:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:16):
Amazing.
So what's happening next?
You know, the people that cometo you, how do you help them
communicate in a way that isempowering to them if they don't
feel that confident?
SPEAKER_03 (36:28):
Well, what I say to all of them, and this is this is
you know, I know you and I havehad conversations about this,
and you know, we are on the samepage here.
But you may recall me sayingthat I there's this mantra that
that I really adhered to, whichis the quality of the response
(36:48):
you get from someone else isonly ever going to be as good as
the quality of the communicationyou give.
So in an interview situation ortalking to members of family,
you know, family members or evenyour children, other people,
your partner, yourrelationships.
If you want somebody to reallyhear what you're about to say in
(37:13):
order to get the best possibleresponse, you first have to ask
yourself is the other personready and in the right emotional
state to really hear what I haveto say?
So there's this exercise that Ido, uh, and then I have had to
sort of self-coach myself when Iwas talking to these doctors.
(37:35):
Is what do you want this personto feel, think, and then do as a
result of your communication?
SPEAKER_01 (37:46):
Okay.
So with a doctor, for instance,how did you want them to feel?
SPEAKER_03 (37:51):
I wanted them to feel empathy to me.
I wanted I wanted them to feelimpressed that I had done my
homework.
I wanted them to sit up andreally hear what I had to say so
they knew that they weren'twasting their time and they
weren't just talking to somebodywho hadn't just another number,
another patient.
(38:11):
Just another number.
I wanted to be memorable.
I wanted to be able to walk outof that any meeting that I had
with them, with them learningsomething new, even about them
as a doctor.
SPEAKER_02 (38:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (38:25):
And then what I wanted them to think about me
was wow, this is a determinedyoung lady.
I know that she's going, youknow, she's going to go far,
that she's going to get theresults that she wants, and
she's not going to stop untilshe can achieve that.
But not in a way that wasbamboozling them or like a like
a china shop or anything likethat.
(38:48):
Somebody who, with calm andclarity, was able to muddle
their way through their thoughtprocesses in a way that would
make them really hear what I hadto say.
Because what I needed them to dowas let me have my choice of
(39:08):
surgeon, plastic surgeon, uh theother team that I, as you to use
your words, so beautifullycurated around me.
SPEAKER_01 (39:19):
And that got me the results I wanted, which was a
clean bill of health, right?
Yeah, cancer free.
So just in closing, I love thatexercise.
So you've got to ask them towhat does the person want to
feel?
What do you want them to do,think, and what do you want them
to do?
SPEAKER_03 (39:38):
And the reason being the feel bit is almost the most
important, but it is the mostchallenging.
SPEAKER_02 (39:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (39:46):
Because in order to get somebody else to actually do
something for you in the waythat you want them to do it, you
first have to elicit a gutfeeling from that person.
SPEAKER_01 (40:00):
So this isn't manipulation, this is like this
needs to be authentic, thisneeds to be genuine, right?
There's a genuine authenticcommunication.
SPEAKER_03 (40:07):
Yes.
If this person, if the otherperson feels nothing about your
experience or your words, oryour communication, they aren't
going to be motivated to doanything about it.
SPEAKER_00 (40:19):
Sure.
SPEAKER_03 (40:20):
So if you are clear and understand what kind of
emotion you want this person tofeel, the other person to feel,
then you can work backwards byunderstanding what content you
need to say in order to produce.
SPEAKER_01 (40:38):
So give me an example of how you could apply
this, just let's say, in apersonal relationship.
SPEAKER_03 (40:45):
So, for example, say you're having an argument, you
know, with your partner, youhave a dis you're having a
disagreement, and it perhaps hasgone on for a few weeks now, and
you want to resolve it or youwant to find a way through it.
SPEAKER_02 (41:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (41:01):
But you keep, you know, you're you're you're both
at loggerheads.
You have, you know, one personhas one idea and the other
person has the other idea.
So if you really want the otherperson to hear your side of
things, you've got to leave theego at the door.
And you have to ask yourself,okay, clearly something's not
(41:22):
working, the communication's notworking.
SPEAKER_02 (41:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (41:26):
So what do I want my partner to feel about my what
I'm telling them?
And quite often it might be, youknow, I've my husband and I,
we've had arguments over theyears, you know, how we want to
bring up the children or thechallenges that we have with,
(41:47):
you know, arranging the house,etc.
Whatever that whatever theymight be.
And the moment I could leave myego at the door and tap into
what his needs were, what wasimportant to him.
That then allowed him to want tothen hear a bit more about what
(42:11):
I had to say.
So showing some vulnerabilitybecame really, really valuable,
you know, rather than steppingback and just allowing some
space for some vulnerability.
SPEAKER_01 (42:23):
I like that, just leaving the ego at the door to
show that you're willing to finda way or create a way, whatever
that is, but with their help.
Correct.
But what I really like, you alsowanted to get a yes from them
that they wanted to help you.
And I love that that you're alsohelping people come back to work
or get the job of their dreams,you're helping people with that
(42:46):
process, maybe when they'refeeling a lack of confidence,
and then you actually empowerthem to have that confidence as
they they show up.
And I and I and I like thatbecause I think the more that
we're able to put our ego aside,I think the more we have greater
genuine connection.
Yeah, and actually, in truth,that also gives you a greater
state of health and wellness aswell, because you know, you're
(43:09):
not fighting and resisting thedesperate need of you know
acknowledgement and validationfrom everybody, you're getting
it from yourself.
Uh Steel, it's been reallyenjoyable having this
conversation.
You're an extraordinary story,really extraordinary story, and
you know, it's in my own familyas well.
So I just wanted to share someappreciation for you, not only
(43:32):
as my sister, but just assomebody who who has you know
the willingness to listen tothemselves and not take a note
when and try and find asolution.
And I think your story is one ofthere is always a way if you
look for it and you're willingto move your feet, and even
though you weren't didn't knowwhat to do or understand the
(43:54):
medical background, you found away.
And I really like your story somuch because I just think it can
inspire other people to find away in their own lives with
whatever challenges that they'vegot going on, and find a way to
get there, yes.
So I'd just really like to alsocongratulate you on what you're
doing with your work and howyou're helping other people get
(44:17):
back into the workplace andfinding their jobs of their
dreams, and we'll have all yourdetails underneath this episode
of how you can help people getthe jobs of their dreams, but
more importantly, how you canempower them to find their own
confidence.
Is there anything you'd like theaudience to know, just in
closing?
SPEAKER_03 (44:34):
I think nothing is hopeless as long as you are able
to find that positivity fromsomewhere, there is always hope.
And we are better together as asa team, as people around us.
So there is you don't need to dostuff on your own.
(44:56):
So find the right team aroundyou, whether that's your
friends, your family, yourdoctor the doctors, etc.
But together we are definitelybetter than on our own.
SPEAKER_01 (45:06):
Thank you, Cecilia.
Cecilia's this week's Super SoulModel.
unknown (45:10):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (45:12):
Thanks for tuning into this episode.
And if you enjoyed it, pleasehelp us hit the like, subscribe,
and share button and share itwith somebody who you think
would really appreciate thistype of message.
Because in doing so, you'rehelping the channel grow and
helping the algorithm.
So just want to give you a bigthanks, and until the next
episode, I wish you green lightsall the way.
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