📱Redefining Retail in the Digital Age ft. Sowmyanarayan Sampath EVP & CEO @VerizonConsumer

Explore Verizon Consumer Group's transformative world as we examine the strategic vision and leadership of executive vice president and CEO Sowmyanarayan Sampath. 
From his humble beginnings in Kolkata, India, Sampath's journey is a testament to the values of education, family, and respect, which have fueled his rise to the top echelons of Verizon. He shares the bold moves and strategic decisions that revitalized Verizon's consumer division, significantly enhancing customer satisfaction and driving growth.
Sampath candidly discusses the challenges and strategies behind Verizon Consumer's remarkable turnaround, emphasizing the importance of leadership, agility, and returning to fundamental principles in driving success. He delves into the future of work, advocating for a hybrid model that balances productivity with the human need for connection and flexibility.
The episode also covers the impactful role of AI and technology in shaping customer service and operations, underscoring Verizon's ambition to lead in applied AI for superior customer experience and revenue growth. Sampath shares his insights on the influencer landscape, the power of sports and music partnerships in building brand loyalty, and the ongoing journey towards more authentic and engaging social media interactions.
This episode is a deep dive into the mind of a leader who navigates the complexities of a changing world with grace, strategic thinking, and an unwavering focus on what truly matters. You wouldn't want to miss this.

00:00 - Introduction and Background
01:02 - Influence of Upbringing
03:06 -Impactful Teachers
04:44 -Challenges and Career Direction
08:31 -Transition to Accounting
09:04 -First Job and Career Progression
14:30 -Transition from Consulting to Operator
17:19 -Transition to Verizon
25:12 -Responsibilities as EVP and CEO of Verizon Consumer
33:29 -Challenges of Emerging Technologies
41:50 -Work from Home and Future of Work
44:14 -The Future of Work
47:23 - Retail Expansion
50:31 - Influencers and Branding
53:06 - Measuring Investment

www.jonschultz.com
https://www.youtube.com/@jonschultzMythOvernightSuccess
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sowmyanarayan/

Episode Transcript

(00:12):
Every successful person got there by goingthrough tough times. Success is a hard
ass teacher who likes to knock youaround along that journey. You know,
it takes real guts to not giveup and keep going. Well, here's
stories about failures and how these leadersflip the script to create success. I'm

(00:32):
John Schultz. Join me and let'sdiscover how success is never really overnight.
Welcome to the John Schultz Podcast,The Myth of Overnight Success. I'm very
excited about my guest today. Firstof all, Jersey. It's a Jersey

(00:54):
company, global company, but bigpresence in Jersey. His name is Sam
Path and he is the executive vicepresident and CEO of Verizon Consumer. You
know, everything that goes on inVerizon is about people, consumers, and
what a big responsibility you have.You've been at Verizon for a very very

(01:15):
long time. We're going to discussthat and you rose all the all the
way up to this amazing position ofgrowth, and you know, couldn't be
a better person to be running it. And I'm so happy to have you
on the podcast. John, I'mso happy to spend some time with you,
and I'm looking forward to a conversation. All Right, so let's uh,

(01:37):
let's dive in. So you know, I love going back all the
way to when we're younger because Ibelieve what we learn when we're younger and
a lot of the challenges and howwe're brought up and who we take on
as mentors is such an important partof our lives. So how did your
upbrak bringing, you know, influenceyour values, your work ethic and sort

(02:01):
of you know what you are todayif you can remember, John, I
grew up in India. You know, I grew up in Calcutta, which
is now called Kolkata. It's onthe eastern side, not far from the
Bangladesh border, maybe one hundred kilometersfrom the Bangladesh border. And I grew
up for the first twenty five yearsof my life there. And my whole

(02:22):
upbringing can be summarized in one wordor three words, middle class values.
You know, I came from amiddle class Indian family, and we have
three things that are foundational to anyIndian middle class person you ask, they'll
say exactly the same three things.The first is education, like disproportionate focus
on education. The second ist familyand the broader community. And the third

(02:46):
is respect for the order. Theorder can mean family, elders, teachers,
senior folks. There's an order insociety, there's an order in life,
and you respect it. Those threeare foundational to my upbringing and almost
most of the things I do tendto go back to those three things.
I mean, like, could therebe any better three things? You know,

(03:09):
if the world just completely focused onthat every day in our personal and
work lives, I think we'd allbe happier. So that's tremendous. So
obviously those are great things. Asyou're growing up, you know, I
had different role models that you know, sometimes you don't want to ask your
parents those questions, or was thereanyone that had a huge impact on you

(03:32):
growing up as an individual, inyour in your younger years that that maybe
changed the direction of how you thinkor what you wanted to do it.
Look, for me, it wasteachers at school. I had two teachers.
One was my science slash matt teacher. The other, gentleman, was
a physical education teacher. It wascalled something else those days. I forget

(03:53):
what it is. And they werefoundational. You know, they're brilliant.
Both were brilliant, both with PhDsin some subject don't understand, but they
were teachers. They decided to giveup their careers to come and teach,
you know, young wayward kids likeus, and they became the foundation.
And I think a lot of whatI am today, the good and the

(04:13):
bad, tends to come from thatfoundation they have. Second, look,
my home environment was a very comfortablehome environment. You know, we didn't
have money, but we had alot of fun and as long as you
did your homework, your grades weredecent, you could have fun. So
till very late, in fact,till I was in college, every day
I used to go down. Evenwhen I was in college, you in

(04:34):
post college. In my first job, every day I used to go down
because we lived in apartments. Weused to go down and hang with friends.
And that's the foundation we have.And those friends remain some of my
closest friends today. But teachers didhave a pretty outsized influence on my career
early. That's great, that's amazing. I mean I had a couple as
well. I also had a couplepeople like family friends that became almost like

(04:59):
my second and third fathers. Actually, what were some challenges you went through,
Because you know, it sounds goodyou had all this great environment,
to work in. But was thereanything that you think molded you, that
was a challenge, that was somethingthat you know didn't go the right way.
Actually, look, it starts withthe India as a very very competitive

(05:21):
environment. I mean, folks whotalk about, you know, America as
a competitive environment, India has aneven more competitive environment, just largely given
the ratio of people to opportunities.It's one hundred times more competitive. And
I think that was very difficult.You were good, you thought you were
good, of someone was just muchbetter than you, and it's difficult to

(05:43):
shine in those type of environments.I think that's one. I think the
second is for the first twenty,maybe first seventeen years of my life,
I was convinced I wanted to bean engineer, like I knew it,
like I want to be an engineer. I didn't care what engineering, but
I wanted to be an engineer.And I got comfort in that. Look,
a lot of my cousins were engineers. My father is a very very

(06:04):
good engineer. And in India,that's the thing you do. Become a
lawyer, you become a doctor,you become an engineer. I couldn't be
a doctor. I'll get about thelawyer thing in a bit so and as
a result, I had to dovery well in STEM. It was very
difficult for me. I did okay, Look, I did fine. I
was a a minus student, youknow, B plus, a minor student.

(06:28):
But it wasn't enough. It wasn'tenough for me to cut through the
competitive environment there. It was achallenge, and some of it came down
to skill. I was a horsethat was running in a course that was
not meant for me. And itwas difficult in that environment. One when
you're a child or a teenager toacknowledge that you want to do something you're
not that great at it. You'redecent, but others are much better and

(06:51):
you just don't know why why can'tI do math better than the others?
And I think it was a challengeto work through the competition and the old
STEM, especially because it says,like you said, there's three things you're
supposed to be. You know,we all have that in all of our
cultures and families, and you know, you know that's a hard thing because

(07:15):
like you're, you're you don't wantto disappoint. So you got through that,
right and you saw that, Sowhat made you veer away from it,
Like, what was the thing thatenabled you to actually go and go
to your strengths rather than just somethingthat you thought you had to do.
It was when I finished school andI want to go to college. I
didn't get into an engineering school.I just didn't. You know. It's

(07:36):
not like I had an option.I chose not to. I just did
not get into an engineering school.I still think I would have made a
good engineer, but we'll come tothat later. And it was a difficult
thing. I didn't have any otherskill because my whole life, you get
ready, I wasn't a basketball players, I wasn't a swimmer. I didn't
play golf well. I brey playedcricket decently. So I'm stuck here,

(07:59):
you know, I'm an awkward teenagersfinished high school and now and this is
where I think my mother and myfather came in and helped, which is,
look, you have a strong businessacumen. And I'm like, what
does the word business acumen even me? And they're like, no, no,
we've seen you grow up very closely. We think you understand business well.
We think you should become an accountant. Oh my god. Now accounting

(08:24):
in India it's called the chartered accountantis one of the most competitive programs in
the world. Typically one or twopercent pass it every single year. So
they said you should go and becomean account I'm like, oh, that's
so easy. You know, I'mgetting ready for engineering school and then now
I'll just shift in, you know, major in accounting. But it took
me like a month or two tojust ghetto through that. But then I

(08:45):
got into it, and I thinkthat was the single biggest unlock in my
life. I didn't know it.I think my parents knew it. In
fact, my grandfather is a verysenior accountant back then, and he knew
it, and he said, youknow what, this kid will be a
good business guy whatever that means.A big, big unlock for me happened
right there. Wow, So youwent to college for accounting or is that

(09:07):
how you? Okay? And Icould do your taxes, John, I
could do your taxes. You knowit's coming up, tax season's coming up.
I could do your taxes. Andthen I ended up specializing in tax
tax and international tax. So I'mhappy to do anyone's taxes. So all
right, So listen, in accountingis very specific, right, It's numbers
oriented. It's performance. It's alot of digging and a lot of focus.

(09:31):
So what was the first job youtook on obviously getting this degree in
accounting. Look, I went andjoined the bank. It was a rotational
program in a bank. Was therefor a couple of years, But my
first real job was with KPMG.You know, that's where all good accountants
go. I believe that time.So I was there. I was in

(09:52):
there corporate finance slash evaluations group wherewe valued companies. We did some basic
greed structuring. We did a fewlow end MNA deals, but that was
foundational for me. I got tounderstand credit in a pretty meaningful way.
I got to understand where value getscreated. But it was great. I
loved it, and there was anadded bonus. I met my wife there,

(10:16):
so you know, we've been marriedfor twenty years. So I think
I got two things out of thatfirst job. My first job and I
got married. So you obviously didwell there. Right, you could have
stayed there forever. I mean,the big company's still around. What made
you want to change? Like?What was the push? I think,

(10:39):
Look, Calcutta is a lot ofpeople, but it's a small market and
I very quickly realized I had outgrownthe city. It's still one of my
favorite cities in the world, butI had outgrown the cities. I had
outgrown the business opportunities, and Ineeded to get out of the city.
And I figured the best way forme to get out is what I do

(11:00):
best, education. So I decidedto do an MBA. That's where I
came to the US. I cameto Boston. I got a pretty decent
scholarship into Boston University to do anMBA because I knew it would help me
branch out and do things different.So I committed it two more years of
education, and then I came tothe US first time. I think it
was the first or second time I'deven traveled in a plane in my life.
That's a big move. That's abig move. So was it something

(11:26):
that you felt was going to betemporary or and you're you're going to go
back? Like? How did?How did things evolve? Every Indian who
comes has two stories. He comeswith two suitcases and two hundred dollars in
his pocket, and he or shesays they're going to go back in two
years. That was also true forme. The rule still holds I came
with two suitcases and a couple hundredbucks and I told my parents I'll be

(11:48):
back in two years. And youknow, but the story, unfortunately,
unfortunately was different. And what whatwhy that change? I'm curious, like
you're like you had this great family, like like you know, your family's
important. What drove you not todo that? I think it was intellectual

(12:09):
curiosity. I really liked the Americancuriosity. You know. I had a
great time in business school. Itried new things. I took courses I
would have never done before. Butit opened my eyes up to some pretty
cool things, mostly around how curiousI was. I wanted to try and

(12:31):
learn new things, and too isI like the meritocracy in America. There's
something that was magical for me.India has it a lot, and I
found America very meritocrossing. You know, you had a kid strong Indian accent.
As you can see, twenty yearshasn't changed it with nobody. I
knew absolutely nobody in this country.And yet you work hard, you put

(12:54):
one foot in front of the other. You know. I got my first
job out of business school and it'sworked very well since then. But I
had conviction that the meritocracy would workfor me. But what gave you the
courage? I get that it allsounds good, but like, like it's
a lot of courage to just notknow anyone and stay here, and like,

(13:15):
how'd you get through that? Lookit was I graduated in a year
when the economy was very soft.I applied to keep I kept track of
this for a long time. Ihad applied to I think three hundred different
companies. I wrote three hundred coverletters, I had three hundred resumes I
must have called NonStop. I evenhad a small CRM software which I had
designed on my computer where I couldtrack people who I called. It was

(13:39):
a rough time getting my first job, But I think some of it was
conviction that you know I could doit. And if I had Plan B,
Plan C, Plan D, Iwas saying, I'll study for another
year. Why didn't you, likeafter a hundred say forget this, I'm
going back. What kept you going? I I think it is just conviction

(14:01):
you know that I could do it. And some of it is also youthful
exuberance. You know, when you'rein your early twenties, you haven't seen
that much life. You feel youcan do something way bigger than what you
are. I think that helped.If I know what I know now and
I go back, I would havetaken a much less risky option. I

(14:24):
would have gone back or have donesomething else in another country. But sometimes,
you know, youth is youth hasa certain magic that I think people
don't use enough. Well, welose it unfortunately, right, And I
think as we're all living older,you know, we're living longer, like
and you can have a second thirdcareer, and you know, I hope
that's where we all go, especiallywith so much new innovation and technology and

(14:48):
exciting things happening that you know,if we can add value to So you
had advantage, had bought in consultinggroup KPMG. You sort of stuck in
that, right, Why didn't youjust keep going? Like how did the
change occur to get to Verizon?What? You spent a lot of time

(15:11):
too, Like why would you makethat because it doesn't match, It just
doesn't match. Yeah. Look,I was at BCG, which is I
think probably one of the finest consultingfirms in the world. Very intellectual,
very academic to some extent, butjust the smartest people I've ever met in
my life, and I did verywell there. I was a partner.
Very few years from joining, Imade partner, and then very soon they

(15:33):
gave me the whole practice to run. I was running the telecom practice globally.
It was amazing, you know.I was, I think in my
twenties or maybe early thirty, andI had the whole global practice to run,
which people tend to get much laterin their career. I had so
much fun. And then I realizeda point which you raised earlier, which
is I'm going to work till I'msixty five or seventy. I think people

(15:56):
are going to work longer. Irealized it. I was reasonably healthy.
I still am I was going towork. I probably couldn't see myself do
consulting for another thirty five years.That was the trigger for me. I
loved what I was doing. Itwas so much fun. I was traveling
around the world, meeting some ofthe best companies, working on high profile
Why not, like, why not? Like if you're meeting all this and

(16:18):
learning, which it sounds like that'swhat you like to do. Education,
you know, I feel like theminute you stop learning, it sort of
gets boring. Why would you leavethat you outgrow a place. You know,
it's similar. Outgrew Calcutta. WhenI grew up there, I outgrew
consulting. You know, it wassimilar type of projects. There's some nuance

(16:40):
to it, but it's the same, the client management and the delivery of
the project. You give a projectand you move on and that move.
I always had emotional separation issues frommy project every time I firsted it.
Well, so you just answered it. You never really owned what you did.
Yeah, it sort of went awayand then you felt like it was
gone. And I love that youhave that separate I mean I feel that

(17:03):
with certain things as well. Yeah, I guess some of the big projects
you work on. You know,you've done the project, you're driving by,
you look at it and said,oh, I wonder how the project's
doing. I felt the same.So I started keeping in touch with projects
I did years ago, three yearsago, four years ago. And it
was a trend I saw where Iwas so emotionally vested in my projects,

(17:25):
but the project was not vested inme because they had moved on, they
had new leadership, they had takenit another way. And it got to
a point where I had to dosomething about it and That was the trigger
when I said I'm going to goand get a real job. And I
did that, and you know,I was lucky. I worked with a
few the largest companies in America.They all made me an offer. They

(17:47):
were supremely generous and kind to me. And then I ended up choosing Verizon.
And we should talk about that.Yeah, so all right, so
you choose Verizon, which love thecompany. We're just start out. How
did you enter Hoverrizon? You know, consultants make shitty operators in general,

(18:08):
and I was very nervous of that. So the first job I did was
a tweener job. It had alot of strategy, it had planning,
but it had some elements of executionbecause they wanted to test me whether I
can run a lemonade stand outside GrandCentral Station in summer. It was a
test as simple as that, andI almost did not pass it. Because
I grew up in such a strongconsulting environment. Everything had to be perfect,

(18:32):
and everything had to foot from leftto right, the top to bottom.
If a plan went south a littlebit, oh my god, I
just know. So for me thatwas the big thing. Can I get
the transition from a consultant to abasic operator. I spent almost all my
time it was called the head ofBusiness Transformation of Chief Transformation Officer, so

(18:55):
big, large projects that the companytook, mostly special projects. That was
it. That was my first realjob I ever have in my life.
And obviously you did well enough soit kept going. And you know,
I'm looking at chronologically your history here. I mean, it took a long
time to get where you are.What was the challenges of jumping around?

(19:21):
It's such a big company. Howdo you ever feel relevant? And what
was your mindset? Knowing that youlove the company enough to want to stay
there, but obviously you wanted togrow. What were some of the challenges
in that for you? And youknow, because easily over this time you
could have said, again, thisis not for me. I'm moving on
right, Like I don't own this. I think. Look, I've had

(19:45):
seven jobs in almost between nine andten years, so let's call it ten
years. I've had seven jobs,so an average job at Verizon, I've
had his eighteen months, which isextremely unusual for a company our size.
And these were jobs at Global scin terms of size. So I think
I tell a lot of folks,you know, a lot of people come

(20:06):
up to me and say, oh, you know, I want to be
promoted. I'm stuck in my joband I'm doing a kick ass job.
I'm like, that's not enough.That's what gets you your paycheck every other
Friday. You get promoted. Youget moved on for doing the next job
in your current job. And thatwas the mindset I had, which is

(20:26):
I wanted to get deeper into operations. I wanted to run more things at
scale, so I started doing thingsthat were little ahead of what my job
requirement needed to be. And wasthat this thing? Because I think this
is a very important thing because atthe end of the day, everyone at
every company wants to feel relevant andonce I always find the person that can
get the next person to take theirjob is going to be the one that

(20:48):
can grow. Right, did youdo this by going and asking to help
people in the other divisions? Likehow did you go about that strategy?
Because I think most people don't understandhow to do that. Yeah, Because
look, I think when people evaluateyou, it's on a kind of a
two by two matrix. You know, on one end is your current performance,
you know, are your rockstar.The other end is potential, which

(21:11):
is code for can he or shedo the next job? And look,
I knew I was going to dowell. On the performing side. I
would perform reasonably well, people werehappy, but I spent inordinate amount of
time on the potential piece, whichis what is the next job. And
part of it is in large companies, there are many things people don't want
to do. You know. Partof this is sometimes everyone wants a sexy

(21:33):
thing, easy thing, the hotthing. But sometimes doing things that others
don't want to do is a secretsuperpower that you have. And for me,
I've used that every time. I'vealways gone and done jobs that are
either being a turnaround, a cleanup, a messy situation, or something that
needs a reboot, and not toomany people have raised their hands, and

(21:57):
that's where I find opportunity. Andconsistently, every single job I've had has
been that framework. Go and dothings that others are not necessarily dying to
do, and do a kick assjob at it, and then that creates
opportunity for you. I totally agree, and that's what the younger generation should
understand. Most of us want tomove on, but we're you know,

(22:19):
we're either good or we're stuck inwhat we have to accomplish for our companies.
So teaching them and getting someone elseon board with you will only help
you you grow. That's something.And also I think there's a point you
make, which is jobs are toughand you have to embrace that grind.

(22:40):
You have to embrace the tough andyou have to find some joy in it.
I know it's a very weird thingto say you got to enjoy the
grind. You got to enjoy thesuck, and if you don't do that,
it becomes a burden on you.And then when things become a burden
on you, there's no way youget out of it. So some of
it is a mindset where I tellpeople we do hot things and we do

(23:06):
heart things better than other people cando hard things. And that gives me
an edge when I talk to mycompetition outside the company. Well, I
love that enjoy the grind. Imean most of the time, when you're
done with the project, you alwaysyour your war stories are what matter,
Like, oh my god, whenwe had to go through that storm,

(23:29):
and you know, like you haveyours, I have mine. So if
we would just realize that that,like as hard as it is, is
what's gonna make it the most rewarding. You know, we will have a
different mindset for embracing the grind andthe suck, as you say, which
I love that terminology. Yeah.And some of it is there is no

(23:49):
easy path. You know. Ifyou want an easy path, you stay
in your current job. There's nothingwrong with that. It's a personal choice
we make. And just because somethingis hot shouldn't be something why you don't
do it. Uh. And italso requires a mindset to do hot things.
I know you have it in someof the projects you've led. You
need a mindset which is I knowI can work through this. It's not

(24:12):
going to be perfect, it's notgoing to be the way I want it.
But knowing the end goal and beingflexible how you get there is a
pretty important framework for me. Andthat was the biggest unlock for me from
a consultant to an operator is thegoal is the same, but how you
get there can be because we're alwayswrong how we're going to get there.

(24:33):
Always we're like any any startup I'minvolved in, it's never the product that
ends up being And any deal I'min I'm in real estate, you know
that it's always in the direction,but never how we think, when we
think, or you know, allthe things that go into it. So
so if you if you just knowthat, and if you're younger and you
realize that's what it's going to be, that's the fun part, right,

(24:56):
and and you got to you gotto embrace that. It's not easy.
I mean, who is it.I think Mike Tyson who said, right,
you know, and someone punches youin the face, all your plans
go out of the window. Ithink that's true. Like, you know,
we do all these complex financial plans. I have one in the back
for twenty twenty three, but Januarysecond, twenty twenty four, that and
two dollars ninety cents gets you inNew York subway token up. But it's

(25:18):
good to have a direction because youstill got to get everyone like focused on
a direction and sort of a roadmap, per se. But it's never what
ends up, all right, Soyou get all the way through the chief
executive Officer of Verizon Business and nowthat you know where you are today Executive
vice president CEO Verizon Consumer, whichis again I think the heartbeat of Verizon.

(25:40):
Were chatting before the show about thisamazing Super Bowl ad. You got
to be involved, and that's prettycool. So lots of fun new things
that you're you're touching, but nowyou're it. So how would you describe
your responsibilities? Because talk about havingthat to be the ultimate operator and from
consultant to ultimate operator, millions ofpeople, right, stores, services,

(26:07):
all the stuff that goes into it. How do you manage that and what
are some of the challenges to that. Just give you a sense, you
know, like my group is,you know, one hundred and ten billion
dollars of revenue, produces forty billiondollars of you know, ebit damagin every
We have I think the sixth theseventh largest retailer in the country, and

(26:27):
we have a billing relationship with everysecond household in the country. Well literally
we send a bill they pay usevery single month. So the scale is
enormous. It makes us the largestconsumer group in the world in our business
and look for us having the keythree or four things to keep mind.
The first one for me is ateam. You need an organization structure that

(26:52):
can function without you. If somethingwereld happen to me, or I get
sloppy and I get lazy one afternoon, nothing should come in the way,
So how do you build a structurethat is resilient. And it is very
important to understand that I have thisconcept of DRI directly responsible individual. Every
number has an owner, full stop. I get it. In large companies,

(27:17):
we have teams. I'll work collaboratively, I'll work in teams, we'll
work jointly. I look forward tocatching up all that's good. I need
a name and I need who's responsiblefor that one thing. So that's very
important in org design for me,and in America there's so much matrix to
organizations right now. You need nineteenpeople to make a cup of tea these

(27:37):
days, so having this concept ofDRI is very important. The second piece
where I do is time management.I'm very clear. I mark my time
every day. I have a colorcoding system that Ida who's worked with me
for many years managers, and Isay, my time is simple. I
like to spend twenty thirty percent ofmy time with customers, twenty thirty percent

(27:59):
of my time in governance managed,and then twenty thirty percent of my time
with my teams. And I'm religiousabout it. I get out in the
field a lot, I inspect alot, I use the phone a lot.
You know, one of the thingsI do is I call people.
It sounds old fashioned, but Iprobably I have. On an average week,
I will call thirty people without anappointment. I'll speak up the phone

(28:23):
and call them and chat with them. So some form of time management with
an organizational framework lets you scale.But you also need to know that you
cannot fill the calendar because if Ifill the calendar and I have an issue,
I will never get to it.So make time for the urgent,
make time for the important, andthen make time for nothing so that it

(28:44):
gets filled up in the moment.I think nothing matters a little bit too,
because like you'll kill yourself, right. But you know what's interesting here.
You are CEO of one hundred andten billion dollar company within a company,
and your whole job is to figureout how you're never needed. And
like that's hard, right, becauselike we're striving for that. Our whole

(29:06):
career is to get to that point. And the whole point of that point
is to not be needed. Andyou know what, I find that commendable.
And most of the CEOs I knowof large companies, you know,
breaks it down differently, but mostof it's about their team and the fact
that that they you know, they'renot needed, you know, at the
end of the day. Except Ithink delegation is a very important skill to

(29:27):
have and I struggled early on inmy career. You know, I really
did, because I always thought Icould do something better than my team,
and maybe six out of ten timesthat was true. But just because you
can do something better is not thereason for you to do it. And
learning to delegate manage is very veryimportant. I think people who move from

(29:52):
an individual contribute a role to amanager role that often becomes the biggest indicat
of success or failure in that transition. Delegate, delegate effectively, manage results,
don't micromanage. And I feel notenough training is given to some of
our younger managers in how to dothat, and that becomes a little bit

(30:14):
of a choke point for people.Well, and that's what you're gonna do.
So what would you say is likesome of the tough because now you
come into this new position, newerwhat was the toughest decisions and the most
challenge you had coming into such abig thing and having to make your mark
or you know, you never wantthe same person doing the same thing.

(30:37):
That's why there's change. Look,I picked up this consumer role when it
was not doing well. We hadone of our worst quarters in our history.
For four or five quarters before thathas been rough. We miss guidance.
Riison never misses guidance. This isVerizon, it's a dow John thirty
company. We put out guidance fora reason. We miss guidance twice in
a year. And that's the backdropin which I came in, took this

(31:02):
role up. And Look, thefirst thing I did was a leadership team.
There were some folks on the leadershipteam I didn't think made sense both
for them and for us. Soget a team that was committed. Second
is fundamental focus. I think weas a company got a little distracted.
John, you shiny objects, showand tell, and we had to go

(31:26):
back to the fundamentals. We havea great value prop. So I read
it the complete value prop. Itwas called My Plan, which is first
time in the world someone had donea construct like that. We launched that.
I completely read the sales teams.We were a national structure run out
of basking with New Jersey. Ibroke it down to six markets. Each
market has eight to ten territories.Every territory has a boss, so completely

(31:48):
decentralized sales. And third is madea commitment to fix customer experience over two
years and get back to being numberone. So these were three foundational programs
that we did as part of thatpiece, and we saw results. You
know, fourth quarter was probably oneof our best quarters in a very long
time. The markets rewarded us.How long was it for those results,

(32:09):
because like, was there any pointin time because you're making all these big
moves that it was going the wrongway And you're like, oh, no,
I think agility is important. Thisgoes back to being an operator,
and it's a fine line. Youneed conviction in your plan, but you
also need to know when you needto pivot. And that balance is probably

(32:31):
what makes a great CEO from anot a great CEO. In my opinion,
I'm trying to learn how to dothat because sometimes I suffer from what
I call professional impatience. I'm surethere's a less colorful word for that,
but professional impatience. And you're like, oh, this should didn't work,
Let me move on to the nextthing. No, No, you got

(32:51):
to let give things time to settle. You got to give times to so
knowing when to do that. Ithink it's a very personal thing. It's
in your gut. And as Ido more work, I seem to be
getting better at that and I havea better instinct. And that instinct cannot
be taught in schools. It cannotbe put in an HBr article. It's
very personal where you know it.There are enough leading indicators you know there's

(33:14):
going to be a turnaround. That'sI think you're correct because you're scared.
Either way, you're scared is notgoing to work, or you're scared you
know you may have made the wrongmove, and you know the last thing
to do is to make a fastmistake. Too fast, right, so
unbelievable. All right, so you'redoing well. What are some of the

(33:39):
issues of today. I mean,we've got so many emerging technologies. We
got AI, we got blockchain.I mean, like it's very confusing and
it's very hard to keep up with. What would you say your biggest challenges
are now going into this new innovationcycle with you know, starlink. I

(34:00):
mean, there's just things going comingfrom every direction. John. The cool
part about my job is my customerspick up and use my product one hundred
and forty four times a day.It's pretty cool. An average person picks
up their phone one hundred and fortyfour times every single day. So your
communication, what does I would lovethe statistic of Like from when social media

(34:24):
entered the world, it was itforty times or I mean it's got to
be it's gotta or it could probablymore. Definitely it probably grew up four
or five x just because of socialmedia. But think about your life,
John, You're going to finish thiscall. Uh, I'm going to make
up a scenario. You're gonna have, you know, call for a ride
to get home. You're gonna callUber. You're not excited about what's being

(34:46):
cooked at home, so you're goingto order grub Hub. Your food is
going to be delivered. You're gonnahave Instagram. Then you're gonna go and
pay some bills in the evening usingyour phone, whether it's in a bank
or some other builds need to pay. And then your friends and family are
going to ping you NonStop about everyinteresting thing and how great the Verizon Beyonce
ad was? So which was thatwas a good one? Like that in

(35:07):
the dunkin Donuts? Those two arethe those ones. So if you think
about it. Your phone is sofoundational to what you do. Same with
internet at home. You know them. You know, I travel a fair
bit and I have two young kids. They call me often to you know,
chat. But the minute the internetis not working perfectly, in two

(35:28):
seconds, I get like five calls. So that is a very good place
given how important what we do isin society. My whole strategy is a
company can be summed up in oneline. I connect people and I connect
things. That's it. I don'twant to do anything else. So we
are in a pretty privileged position interms of our product and how it gets
used. The second thing is,look, AI is something which I think

(35:52):
is going to be a foundational technology, and maybe I go backwards. Of
all the technologies I've seen, thatone I feel has most legs. You
know, I was never that hoton blockchain, I was never that hot
on metaverse. Quantum may or maynot happen down the line. But AI
is an interesting thing because for thelast thirty years in America, we've had

(36:12):
a deflationary environment. In other words, products have cost less every year than
the previous year for the most part. If you pull out education and healthcare,
every product we use today costs lessthan it did fifteen twenty years ago
when adjusted for inflation, and thereason for that has been offshoring in China.
That has been the single biggest driverof deflationary environment and labor productivity in

(36:34):
America. That movie has come toan abrupt stop. So for the next
twenty years, the only lever Americahas today in labor productivity is going to
be ai IS. So I thinkit's a foundational technology for long term GDP
growth for the country. So Ithink that's probably the biggest piece. I'm
excited about the second pieces. Itis also an interesting technology where what the

(37:00):
technology can do and what it isadopted for. The gap is the biggest
I've never seen in use cases right, like like where it's almost like when
the Internet first started. I rememberlike going on AOL and it didn't do
anything. Right. You can youcan like make a couple emails and maybe
look up the weather. Yeah,yeah, you got John at aol dot

(37:22):
com. That's a great email addressto have. But uh, I think
the gap is big, So weneed to be careful not to get carried
away by the exuberance, but focuson use cases. Look, I have
a vision. I want to bethe world's best AI applied company h and
I want to be a better SoI don't want to design AI technologies.

(37:45):
I don't want to have the nextbig model or you know, out Gemini
Gemini or out open Ai in theirthing. I want to take AI deep
into the operations of my company andfundamentally do two things. One a better
outcome of my customers. It's easier, we are more friendly, we are
more relatable, So that's one.Second is drive revenue growth. That's it.

(38:07):
Those are my two things. I'mless worried about cost. I think
we can do other things in cost, but customer experience and driving significant more
revenue is what I want to useAI. And do you feel that it
makes it better? Because right now, customers support on any software or any
service to me is just a difficultprocess to navigate. Right You're never getting

(38:30):
to you never can talk to anyoneyou know, and it's hard. So
how will AI help that? SoI want to talk about three places where
I'm very bullish on in my group. The first is customer service. You
know, I have tens of thousandsof people, multiple tens of thousands of
people around the world serving customers.And let's say you colin your really good

(38:53):
phone has an issue and maybe thescreen is cracked or the software bug on
it. You call a rep.He or she goes looks, searches it
up in their intranet, finds aPDF document that is sixty pages long,
looks for your issue, and thentroubleshoots with you, like, oh,
it's not that. It's a complicatedprocess. So I want to take the

(39:15):
cognitive workload off my frontline teams,whether it's my service teams or my sales
teams. You go into a Verizonstore, call me if it's easier.
But if you go into a Verizonstore, there are plans, there are
new plans, there are promotions.I don't want the rep to worry about
all of that. I want myspecialist to focus on you, John,
what's going on in your life,what I on needs? How can I

(39:36):
serve you, empathize with you,connect with you. All the cognition I
want to put in AI, sowe have a co pilot that literally walks
you and the rep through a salesprocess or through a service environment. We
are very close to launching that morebroadly in ecosystem, but it's a great
use case for all this crazy technologyused in production today. It's all use

(39:59):
case, just like it was alluse cases once the web, you know,
Facebook, to all these apps thatare gigantic now, the Magnificent Seven,
the six, whatever we want tocall them. And I think there's
just so much opportunity and I thinkpersonally it's going to create more jobs,
not less. That's just my view. And I think, you know,

(40:20):
we're going to be able to bewhat we are human like, these are
all tools. Humans are not goingaway, and they're only going to actually
get better with having the co pileif the person that maybe helps some of
their weaknesses to become more strengths.Let's pick up on the jobs theme here,
John. You know, I'm anaccountant. Though I don't do much
accounting, I'm an accountant by education. In the late in the early eighties,

(40:46):
VisiCalc came, you know, whichwas the first real program for accounting.
They were three hundred and forty ninethousand accountants in America accountants slash bookkeepers
in America at that time, that'swhat they were called bookkeepers back. Yeah,
VisiCalc is going to come. Everyone'sall accountents are going to lose their
job. Everything's going to be automated. The last survey I looked at that

(41:07):
are one point four million people inAmerica who do accounting, slash auditing some
related function. VisiCalc didn't take awaytheir jobs. It actually added four x
their job. It just moved toa higher tier what they do, the
basic grunt work, the basic loadhas been taken off. I think most
functions are going to get through this. Hopefully this is productivity, right Like

(41:30):
for coding, if you can tenextra coding skills, you're going to be
able to produce more with less.So it's good. Like it'll affects certain
things, but then other things willgrow from it. It has every every
evolution, revolution, dustial revolution,right like, it's just things change,
right and hopefully reskilling and people beingcognizant of this because I think that's important

(41:55):
because then that will create a wholenew industry in a whole new way for
people to be exc I did tolearn something, they wouldn't be something.
Now. So next question, sowork talking jobs, Now, it's work.
We've had the pandemic and this wholework from home thing. You know,

(42:15):
we're four years into it. What'syour whole view. I'm work from
home and you know, the plusis, the minus is, and where
do you think this is going togo? Actually, when COVID happened,
the biggest challenge I had was gettingpeople to work at home, because you
were people who've worked in an officetwenty thirty, forty years. Now They've

(42:36):
got to take all that equipment andgo home, and it was a challenge.
I didn't know if it would work. The change management. The biggest
challenge I have now is bringing peopleback to the work, you know,
And I think we've got to anenvironment where I don't think people want to
work five days a week in theoffice. I may want it as a

(42:57):
CEO, but I don't think peopleare going to do that. They like
the flexibility. I think two thingsCOVID showed them. One they can actually
work reasonably well from home. Twothey are quite productive. And three that
flexibility they have when they work fromhome is magical. You know, today's
Friday. I typically work at homefrom Fridays. My wife's working in another
office, but we'll have lunch together. It's magical without kids. We'll have

(43:20):
lunch for forty minutes. We'll catchup on things, maybe people have errands.
So I think the community has spoken, our teams have spoken. There
is a place for working back inthe office. I think it's three days
a week where and you can pickthree days different formats. But giving people
some flexibility is going to be veryimportant. But on the other hand,

(43:44):
complete remote work is not a goodlong term recipe. There's not enough intensity.
But second is people look, noteveryone produces at the same level of
output. And when you're working fromhome, there are folks who can hide,
you know when you are not producing, and others pick up your slack.
You know it. So I don'tthink it's I think it's more the

(44:05):
commute and not being home and likebecause I I don't know, I like
getting don't you want to get dress, go out, go somewhere. So
is it more would you say commute? I think commutes in general suck and
I'd love to get your views.I think some of our office designs don't

(44:27):
help either. You know, youcome to an office that's crowded, that's
not inspirational. You know it lookslike the insurance office from glen Glady,
Glen Ross. You know it's notinspirational. So how do you create an
environment where people want to come towork, they have some privacy, they
have some places to collaborate and havefun, and so I think commute in
general sucks, but we're going toas a society have to adjust to an

(44:50):
hybrid model. I don't think longterm companies that want to create competitive advantage
can do this working five days aweek from home. Yeah, listen,
I think most companies it wasn't fivedays anyway. I think everyone was flexible
anyway. It's just you had toask for flexibility, where now it's just
flexibility built in. I do thinkthat you have to make an experience come

(45:15):
to life, almost like a hotelierdoes when you go on vacation in these
office buildings, like you have tohave the amenities that matter, you know,
listen, I always I say thisall the time, Like Starbucks was
the first co working space. Youknow, every coworking space or restaurant that
has that ability. When I gotake a break and go get something,

(45:37):
people are working everywhere, they're nothome. So I do believe if you
create the right environment, people willcome in the right experience. And we're
seeing it. I mean, ourClass A plus leasing volume is up,
you know, everyone's trying to figureout. Just like like retail went through
its phase. You know, theinternet came, there's never going to be

(45:59):
shopping. Okay, that's not truethere and we could talk about your retail
as well. You know, thatwas a farce. Formats got a little
less. Certain companies figured the costof acquisition was too much just on the
web, so they needed to havebrick and mortar Untucket Warby Parker. You
know. So I think it's notever what we think it is, and

(46:20):
but I do think there's gonna bemore flexibility in a new way to work.
But I think the more you createthe environment of success as an owner
to help the tenant within their spaceand within the common areas, I'm not
sure a single tenant occupant obviously,but uh yeah, so we'll see.
You know, the jury is stillout. But I think we over my
senses. We also overthinking this piece. You know, is it all remote?

(46:44):
Is it all whack? Because alot of companies that like you have
to be back in the office fivedays a week, and I hear that
employees bitch and complain a lot.I know it. I got to have
friends who do that. And thenyou have people who are five days a
week remote? And then they complain, Oh, we don't get promotional opportunities,
we don't get to work on coolsexty projects. So I think we
are. You know, there's toomuch college, not enough high school on

(47:05):
this topic. You know, it'shybrid. Three days a week, some
flexibility, create a work environment that'shealthy and fun. Move on. Yeah,
and I think we're getting there.We're getting there. I mean,
listen, you can't expect that.You know, it was such a dramatic
change now. You know, ifyou look at any like crazy event that
we've gone through, and it's alwaystaken five six set. Look at retail

(47:28):
nine to eleven, no one wouldgo above the tenth floor for two years,
right, I mean things will somethings will stay based on the change,
and some things will revert back.And like you said, we've got
to, you know, go forwardand we'll see what happens. So let's
talk about uh, you know,we talked about where now it's retail,
you know, being a consumer business. Talk about like where do you see

(47:50):
retail in Verizon's footprint and why doesit matter? And does it grower?
Does it contract? Grol I'm goingto add stores this year. I'm going
to add stose next year. I'mgoing to stores the year after that.
A couple of you don't feel it'scannibal like, like why are you doing
that? Like what's the reasoning behindthe growth in retail? I think part
of it is the experience. Ifyou go to a store and it's not

(48:12):
the greatest of experience, it feelslike you're going to the DMV to you
know, to rendew a license.Fine, that's the thing, but I'm
going to work hard so that it'snot like going to the DMV. It's
a better experience. People want tocome. They want to come, they
want to see, they want totouch, they want to feel, and
it's a little bit of a socialexperience. You know, when people go
shopping in retail, it's a socialthing. They dress well, they typically
take a couple of people with them, they chat, they grab a food

(48:36):
bite. So I think retail isthe social experience right now. And we
have one of the best digital platformsin our industry. We know it,
we grow it. But I dothink a differentiated retail experience is a really
good one. What will change,Like, it's funny, I wanted to
visit a friend the other day inthe city. We went to a Capital
One cafe. I was like itwas cool, Like I don't bank there,

(48:59):
but like I actually enjoyed it.Are you going to bring some new
nuance to like a Verizon store.I mean there's so much technology changing.
You sell all sorts of products,so like, what's your vision? Look,
I give you a good example.You know, we have all these
streaming services, Disney Plus, ESPN, Hulu, Netflix, We've become one

(49:21):
of the largest sellers resellers of theseplatforms. I think we think we have
eleven or twelve million subscriptions right nowon our platform. The last majority of
them is sold through stores. Peoplecome, they see it, they understand
what it is, what the plan, and when it's sold through a store,
the churn is significantly lower. Soadding new products. Same with home
internet. You know, we launchedthe Verizon five G Home Internet incredibly strong

(49:45):
product. I've never seen a productwith that strutch strong NPS at launch.
It's sold through the stores. Peoplelike it, they take it. You
don't have to wait for a technicianon Wednesday between two and seven and then
he shows up at seven or two. No, I know, that's crazy.
Yeah, so right, I canfix that. I don't know about
that. New products, new services, teaching. Look, you and I

(50:06):
may be super savvy with technology,some people are not. So come in,
we'll teach you. We'll set upa few, will transfer your phone
few. It's an experience. Ithas to feel. Like I tell my
store managers, this is your house. Treat customers like when you treat guests
at your house. It's not atransaction. It's not a one time relationship.
Look, an average customer of ourstends to be with us for ten

(50:28):
plus years. Yeah, and theybuy multiple phones. So you're not selling
them a forty dollars plan, You'reselling them a forty thousand dollars relationship.
You're literally selling them a car.That's how much value a relationship is for
each of us. Yeah, andit's a core component of how we live.
It's interesting. Yeah. No,I even like the Apple store,
Like you go in and like theyhave the Genie bar, right, Like

(50:51):
it's a good thing, and Ithink it gets you closer to the brand.
And you know, overall, Ithink you know, companies have to
be brands today more than just likethat's over right, Like, and talk
to me about the influencer world right, you did this commercial. How are
these brand influencers impacting your business?Is it something that Verizon, being such

(51:15):
a global brand itself, finds necessary? And how do you feel like with
social media? I mean, andany one day there could be fifty things
going against the company. God forbid, they go into a store and something's
not right. What keeps you upat night in this new world of consumerism?
Look, we as a company,I don't think we are really great

(51:37):
at social I think it's a bigopportunity for me to double down and do
well. I do think so.So I think we have a little bit
of a Barbell strategy on social.We have some really big influences. You
know Beyonce, you know Tom Brady, Josh Allen, Justin Hubbert, you

(51:58):
know some of the really strong guys. You know, the Manning brothers.
So we have some incredibly strong folks, you know Baldwin, Jay Baldwin.
On the music side, it's onthe front end and the back end.
We have influencers who have fifty seventyeight thousand, ninety thousand followers, So
we're kind of a Barbell strategy onthem. I think as a company we
have opportunity to connect with our customersa little better. On this front,

(52:21):
we are still a little corporate,a little sterile. Sometimes I think there's
an opportunity for us to let ourbrand show through a little bit. It's
an important thing because people will beinfluenced by others, but it has to
be a genuine, genuine influence.You know, if today I come and
pitch you an ice hockey stick,you should not buy it because I've never

(52:42):
been on the ice, right,right, right. But if I come
and pitch you a new phone ora new laptop or some new technology,
are like, yeah, this iskind of I know, shit, let's
do it. So genuine, authenticinfluencer is important to us, but I
feel we have more opportunity to dothat. The second is we've committed to
sports and music John as a company. I mean, we sponsor the NFL,
the NBA, the NHL, differentversions, different leagues. You got

(53:07):
all in. It's big, andit's big, it's like, it's tremendous.
Same with music. You know,we are one of the largest partners
to Apple Music. You know,we have a huge partnership with Live Nation.
So music and sports is our thing. We think we can connect with
customers. The only thing missing inmy world is food. I really would
like food, music and sports,and I'm all done in life, but
totally that's maybe the next thing Iwork on. So that's our major look.

(53:30):
I can't spread my resources thin andtry and be everything to everyone,
but through sports and music, Iwant them to think of Verizon. We
have brand loyalty, they have abrand association. And when psychologically, like,
how do you measure all of thisinvestment? Like at the end of
the day, it's a large amountof money, right, and like,
how does that happen? You know, return on invested Models on this thing

(53:58):
is ambiguous at best and spurious precisionat worst. Okay, you know it's
not like the models you and Igrew up building, where you have an
IRR that's accurate to the second decimal. This one is directionally correct, precisely
wrong. But at the end ofthe day, two things, are we
selling enough and are customers happy?If the answer is no, there's something
wrong in how we are doing it. So second is it's also a lagging

(54:21):
effect. You can't spend money inMarch and expect results in March, so
you tend to take a multi yearview over a two to three year of
view. Second is are you sellingenough with happy customers and is their brand
association with that? Like NFL isa great We have a ten year partnership
with NFL. People associate us withthe NFL, you know, whether it's
teams, whether it's clubs, soyou can create events and for your customers.

(54:42):
I mean that's why Gov's so good. I mean, there's so many
ways to create brand awareness, butalso you know, give customers a new
way to interact with the company rightin a cool way. So I think
it's tremendous. You know, inentertainment, you know the things that you're
in or what people care about.So it's good. So I want to

(55:04):
thank you for doing this. Imean, you know, you're a great
person. You've done a wonderful job. You're just gonna keep doing great things,
I'm sure. And I appreciate youtaking the time on this to be
on the podcast. Hey, John, thanks so much. I appreciate the
relationship, the friendship, and youknow, let's stay hungry and let's have

(55:24):
some fun now. Absolutely, HiJohn Schultz here, thank you so much
for tuning into this week's episode.Would really appreciate it. If you would
like comments, subscribe and share withyour friends, looking forward to being with
you soon.