August 6, 2024 • 39 mins
Join me on this captivating episode of my podcast, where I sit down with the dynamic Borko Milosev, CEO of Post Road Management, LLC. From his early days as a determined student from Serbia to becoming a prominent real estate entrepreneur and triathlete, Borko shares the trials and triumphs of his career.
Learn about his disciplined approach to business during the economic downturns, his strategic shift from single-family homes to multifamily units, and how he scaled his operations to manage thousands of properties. Borko reflects on the challenges and triumphs of navigating market cycles, his disciplined approach to investment, and the strategic shifts that helped him grow his portfolio.
Beyond business, Borko opens up about his passion for triathlons and mountaineering, revealing how these intense activities help balance his high-powered career and maintain his focus and energy. He also shares touching moments of family life, highlighting how he blends work and personal life to stay connected with his loved ones.
Tune in to hear how Borko Milosev navigates the complex world of real estate investment and management and get inspired by his dedication to personal and professional growth. This episode offers valuable insights and a dose of motivation to push your limits and pursue your passions.
00:00 - Borko Milosev's Journey in Real Estate
04:09 - Meeting Rob Verrone and Seizing Opportunities
08:53 - The Importance of Loyalty and Support
12:56 - Work Ethic and Overcoming Challenges
15:07 - Transitioning to Multifamily Properties
22:28 - Learning from Successful People and Seeking Advice
26:53 - Navigating Market Challenges and Seizing Opportunities
31:11 - The Importance of Passion and Grit in Achieving Success
Borko on Socials:
IG: @milosevborko
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/borko-milosev-b907924/
X: @MilosevBorko
https://postroadmgmt.com/
Jon on Socials:
IG: @streetschultz
FB: Jon Schultz
X: @JonSchultz_Onyx
LinkedIn: jonschultz1
www.jonschultz.com
Learn about his disciplined approach to business during the economic downturns, his strategic shift from single-family homes to multifamily units, and how he scaled his operations to manage thousands of properties. Borko reflects on the challenges and triumphs of navigating market cycles, his disciplined approach to investment, and the strategic shifts that helped him grow his portfolio.
Beyond business, Borko opens up about his passion for triathlons and mountaineering, revealing how these intense activities help balance his high-powered career and maintain his focus and energy. He also shares touching moments of family life, highlighting how he blends work and personal life to stay connected with his loved ones.
Tune in to hear how Borko Milosev navigates the complex world of real estate investment and management and get inspired by his dedication to personal and professional growth. This episode offers valuable insights and a dose of motivation to push your limits and pursue your passions.
00:00 - Borko Milosev's Journey in Real Estate
04:09 - Meeting Rob Verrone and Seizing Opportunities
08:53 - The Importance of Loyalty and Support
12:56 - Work Ethic and Overcoming Challenges
15:07 - Transitioning to Multifamily Properties
22:28 - Learning from Successful People and Seeking Advice
26:53 - Navigating Market Challenges and Seizing Opportunities
31:11 - The Importance of Passion and Grit in Achieving Success
Borko on Socials:
IG: @milosevborko
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/borko-milosev-b907924/
X: @MilosevBorko
https://postroadmgmt.com/
Jon on Socials:
IG: @streetschultz
FB: Jon Schultz
X: @JonSchultz_Onyx
LinkedIn: jonschultz1
www.jonschultz.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Every successful person got there by going through tough times.
Success is a hard ass teacher who likes to knock
you around along that journey. You know, it takes real
guts to not give up and keep going. We'll hear
stories about failures and how these leaders flip the.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Script to create success. I'm John Schultz.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Join me and let's discover how success is never really overnight.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Welcome to the John Schultz Podcast. This is gonna be
a good one.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
This is someone that I've known since he got into
the business, which is making me old.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
That's okay.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
I'm still alive, still healthy, still going. But I've been
able to watch the topic of my pott.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
What does that mean?
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I've watched the myth of overnight's success from this gentleman,
Borko Milicev, And to.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Have him on, I'm actually proud.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
I'm not related to him, you know, I've just known
him and he has such a good energy and I'm
always cheering for success, and when it comes to someone
like him, not only my cheering, I'm shouting from the
rooftops and we're gonna hear his story.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
He's Post Road Management LLC. He's the CEO.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
It started in twenty eleven. He's got a whole career
before that.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Obviously.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
What I also love about this man is he just
is balanced. He gets in work one hundred percent. But
he's also an accomplished mountaineer, a triathlon, a triathlete, you know,
anything to push the limits of what he thought he
could believe in doing, he tries to do. And it's
(02:04):
a lesson to everyone. So welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Thank you, John, Thank you for having me excited to
be here.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, it's a great man. So, uh all right, So
where'd you grow up?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
You know, we start from the beginning because I think
you know, when you're younger, it really shapes like your
ideas and that it could be that something you went
through when you were younger that like pushed you to.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Be that next thing.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
So how would you describe yourself and how would your
parents describe you?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
So background, there's a background. I grew up in Serbia, Serbia,
lived there till I was eighteen, and came to America
to study abroad as a high school student. Is exchanged
dudy in high school. After that, you know, stay for
college and met our mutual friend who gave me an
(02:53):
opportunity which is rob Berarone.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
We could say his name. He doesn't like doing, you know,
people say it his name, but we're saying.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Yes, yes, So what's interesting and I'll get into, you know,
working with rob and all that fun stuff. What's interesting.
Even while I was in Serpia, I I always wanted to,
uh to come to America. My brother says, They recalls
like pretty young young me at a young age. He
actually talks about us watching movie Wall Street and me saying,
(03:24):
you know, hey, I want to do this, and him
being like shut up, kid, like what do you know
You're like eight or however old. That was. So there
was this always this uh desire to come that I
can't I can't really explain. And uh, I was fortunate
enough where my parents agreed to send me, send me abroad,
as I said, as an exchange student. And then when
I came here, I want, I did you know anything
(03:48):
I needed to do, you know, in order to kind
of make sure that I stay in the easiest way
was education, you know, So I enrolled to a local
local college, actually the same school that rob Ron went,
the Moravian College, no Moravian University. Through that get to
know him, he gave me an internship that a full
time job. I wanted to work for him for about
(04:10):
ten years and that that's all before I started a company.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
So talk about that, because you made that sound too simple, right, Yeah,
I mean, here you are, you're in a place that
you really know nobody. You know how you know you
went to college. How did you meet a rob or
own person? Right? Because you had to have the courage
to go out there after you got here and actually
figure it out.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Yeah. Yeah, so I guest before even I met him,
you know. When I was uh, it was a pretty
good student back in Serbia, and then once I start
getting into high school, I wanted to have friends and
chase girls and have fun and all that good stuff.
But then coming to America, I realized it was either
sink or swim. So all I did was work really,
(04:57):
really hard. And that was at school and proud to
say that I ended up being valedictorian four oh a
great point average, double major wrote on her thesis and
so on and so forth, And my thinking there was
that actually, what what what what? One of the things
that incentivized I remember meeting another for student who was
doing an NBA when I told him what my dreams
(05:19):
were going to uh to New York and at that
time I thought I was going to work on Wall Street.
He's just sort of brushed me off and said, You're
never gonna make it there, right, you go to Brabian
they recruit from Harvard and things like that. So it
got me really mad, and I'm like, well, I'm gonna
I'm gonna work hard. I'm going to be the best,
you know, given the circumstance and where I am right,
I'm more I can. I couldn't kind of change at
(05:41):
that point, and so I ended up I feel like,
you know, kicking ass there, you know, the best that
I could, so, you know when. So how I met
Rob is in addition to studying, I would work every
waking hours that I could, right so, at school allowed
you to work so many hours a week. I worked
(06:02):
some stuff outside of school, which is important I can
talk about it because he also led me a little,
you know to real estate. But during my during the
time off or when they were holidays, I would work
at school and one of the places I worked for
was a lumni office. And again through the conversation sort
of what do you want to do and explain to
them and say, hey, look, we have this database. Why
don't you look at who is you new York that
(06:26):
might be able to help you. So I went to
the database, and you know, I put in New York City.
I kind of put you know, financial institutions, and I
selected a very specific year of graduations. You know, I
didn't want somebody that's too young and couldn't really help me,
and somebody that's much older and very you know, towards
the tail end of their career and just might not care. So,
(06:48):
not surprisingly Moravian, I guess I got a very short
list and I was on one of them. And so
I email Rob and for those that don't know Rob,
Rob as an OCD, right, add so or rather add
you know that city. But you know, I was lucky
that he responded in ten to fifteen minutes. He must
have been an email at that point in time. If
(07:08):
he wasn't, I probably would have never gotten respond But
he sort of responded back and said, you know, hey,
come into New York City and you know, let's chat.
And so I ended up going meeting with him. He
was starting a large long group that moving from Charlotte,
building out his team and he said, come on, you know,
(07:29):
I'll give you a job for a month, and I
think he was paying me something like two hundred bucks
a week. He was bare enough to even pay for
a bus ticket to commute from Bethlehem to New York,
which was I think over a two hour bus ride
back and forth. And you know, I didn't have money.
My parents were sort of middle class in Serbia, so
(07:51):
it really couldn't afford a college. I had to work
in the summer. I remember going to talking to another
alumni and telling him, look, I have this dilemma. I
could go and work for a great alum in New
York City to kind of what I wanted to do,
or I could stay here and work the summer just
to pay for school. So I got some good coaching
there where they and there was the first lesson negotiations
(08:13):
where they told me go back to your college and
explain to the more opportunities you have and tell them
you know they'll be making a mistake if they don't
help you out. And sure enough, he kind of worked out.
Remember the DCFO of college literally pull the check book
and he's like, how much you're going to make in
the summer. He was like five grand. He's like, here's
a check for five grand. Now go and you know,
(08:33):
chase your dreams and you'll pass back when you can.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
So that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
I hope I'll still talk to that person or now
he is retired.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
I see him at functions because of acts like that,
and because of meeting Rob. I'm very loyal to Moravians,
so I still do a lot. So oftentimes I'll see
him at different events and different functions. And I'd tell
this story to a lot of people because I think
it's so unique.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Rob's a giver. Yes, you said, you know, he.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Is a genuine giver, so I can see why he
would help you. And whatever Rob's in, he's loyalty, Like
He's got amazing loyalty, right, So that's so cool. So
you commuted from Bethlehem? So for how long did that last?
Speaker 3 (09:24):
So that was about two weeks? I don't know if
they were trying to see if they can shake me off,
and then when they realized they could, they actually ended
up getting me a corporate housing. But probably lasted for
about two three weeks. And then incidentally, I was going
to leave and I had another internship line up to
work for Marivin Alam, who ran a Johnson and Johnson
(09:48):
medical division in instable, Turkey. And so you know, I
work hard for Rob and you know our internship is
coming towards the end. And I said, look, you know
I'm about to leave, so why don't you stay. I'm like,
I don't, like I have to explore different options, you know,
graduating in about a year. You know, I got a
brun on my network. See you know what I can do.
(10:08):
So he's like, well, how about if you stay and
you continue to do well, whatever, if I offer your
job after you graduate? Right, and that that sort of
changed everything. I ended up staying the rest of the
summer with him, and true enough, I went back to
finish my senior year and it's at you know, mid
September I had an offer in hand, which made it
for a very fun a senior year. That's amazing. Yeah,
(10:33):
it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
All right, So you worked for Rob now and it
was Wakovia, right.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Yeah, so right, I first interviewed him. I really got
hooked in real estate. As I mentioned, I wanted to
kind of do all sht in stocks because that's what
I thought, or seeing the movies, what the financing is.
But then he opened a whole new world of real
estate that met some really cool people, including yourself, that
were doing some amazing stuff. And as a you know,
young twenty some year old impressionary guy, I sort of
(11:02):
was like, well, this is what I want to do.
So even after when I left internship, I came back
from my senior year, I started looking for for real
estate and the easiest entry point for me was single
family homes, and in particular I was looking at rio properties,
real estale properties. At that time, there was much different environment,
(11:25):
much different technology than it's today, you know. So I
would go on a hot website and and pull the
you know, the deeds and do my own like camp
analysis and things like that. And I ended up actually
buying a first house a few months a few months
into my my senior year. It was a distress property,
needed a lot of repair. I was, I guess in
(11:49):
a good way ignorant where even though I didn't I
wasn't really skilled, you know, to do things. I thought, well,
you know, if other people can do it, I can
do it. So I ended up buying a home depot
one tow three and learning how to install windows and
how to hang kitchen cabinets, and you know, hiring some
of my college bodies to help me with like some
of those basics. And so that was my first first
(12:12):
home that I bought. And then after I graduated went
to work. PABA would commute back and forth whenever I
had a weekend off it. It wasn't a much. I
would come back to Lehigh Valley and was sort of
first chasing single family homes and then eventually, in two
thousand and five both my first multi deal, which was
a sixteen unit project here in Metlhem as well.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
All right, so let's talk about this.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
So you're working a job, but you have this work
ethic that's amazing. And because you had to write, you
basically were in school and you had to make money
to survive.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
So that trained you for not.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Being afraid to do more and getting out of your box.
And it's funny, like you said, you bought your first home.
People come to me all the time and say, how.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Do I get into real estate? You're my story, Like
I tell your story.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
I'm like, well, I know someone who's just bought that
first house, didn't know what they were doing, but wasn't
afraid to fail, wasn't afraid to learn, knew it may
not be perfect.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
And what's so good about real estate?
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Because we live in it, we eating it, we shop
in it, we go on vacation in it.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
It's everything right. It's a huge market segment. And but
you can enter real estate because you can.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Just buy a small home and rent it out and
that can be your start. So so you're working at
Wacoba right with Rob for years and years and years
and you're doing this side gig. I'm sure you had
a lot of a lot of challenges and failures through it.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
What what?
Speaker 1 (13:45):
What?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
What would you say? Was the one thing that said,
like why am I doing this? Moment like that? But
you kept going? Was there any cool stories?
Speaker 3 (13:54):
I really never had that doubt what ended up? You know?
The only thing that to mind is eventually right as
as I kind of continued to buy and aggregate some
units and had a couple of hundred units at one point,
I had some employees, it was becoming a very apparent
that I couldn't do both. And you know, like I
love Rob, I mean he was best man in my wedding.
(14:16):
I could sit in my American dad type of thing.
My brother and so it was I never thought like
very it was very hard for me to think about
even leaving him, right and but this was, you know,
something that was passion. And it was him actually who
came and kind of encouraged. He saw it and he said, look,
I think you gotta do this. You got to pursue it.
And at first I didn't understand it, right. I felt
(14:38):
like I was being pushed out from somebody that you know,
you genuinely love and respect so much. So it took
me maybe about a year to kind of process and realize.
And I always say Robb is generally always write so
but I didn't see it at that time. Like I said,
it took about a year maybe to realize it. Then
sat down with him and said, look, I think you're right.
(14:59):
I got to pursue this. And uh, you know, he
was very supportive when he happened. As a matter of fact,
you know, through the conversation telling him what I wanted
to do, we find a way to work together, and
to this day we are, we're we're partners.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
That's that's like the first of all, like you had
a little separation anxiety because look at you're from another country.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
He was your dad and in a good way.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
And friends, I mean, however you want to it's how
you feel what he is and he supported you and
it gave you that little push which I always feel
like there's always someone that's there pushing us and if
we just open ourselves to feeling it, because it could
be someone that you don't even know that well, but
(15:44):
you happen to be with them. Right. I think people
come in and out of your life for all these
different reasons. Uh, and Rob not only was he there
for most reasons, he's still.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
There and you guys are partners. So okay, you know
you had this side gig. It was one hand. I
think you got up to ninety houses, right or some
to talk.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
About like the volume, talk about what like what was
your next move? We are going to have guts because
you know, you had a system that you knew, but
then you had the morph into something else.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Yeah. So it's actually so bought a couple of houses
starting two thousand and three and two thousand and five,
started buying multis, you know, bought a couple and then
as you know, six seven and eight, you know, actually
was disciplined enough that I wasn't buying into those years,
which was a good thing. And then eight or nine
(16:38):
kind of you know, liquidity crisis similar to maybe what
we're going through now. So there was just not a
lot of activity. And then in twenty ten eleven and
sticks started to open up. I ended up buying a
bunch of distressed properties, you know, some bankruptcy sales, note
buys and things of that nh old multifamily. So by
twenty twelve, I had as a ment a couple of
(17:00):
hundred units. I had, I believe four or five employees,
and you know, I make a couple of bucks, had
a little bit of savings. By thinking is all right,
I'm gonna I'm gonna quit. You know, I had a
good thing going on it rob but I'm gonna quit.
You know, I'm gonna give this two years, see if
I can make it work. If he doesn't, I'm gonna
back from my job back.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
You know.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
So what I thought at that time was that, you know,
in twenty twelve, there was a lot of money was
going into the smart money was going to sing single
family space. So the idea is that's what I'm gonna do.
I'm going to aggregate it, buy a bunch of rios,
aggregated and sell them to bigger private equity.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
And you had you had the track record or like
like you've been doing it for a long time already,
so it wasn't like it something new, right, No.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
That's right, that's right. And so Rob actually, you know,
his idea was, hey, why don't I help you raise
a fund that we do this together, and that's what
we dated. So we ended up actually about one hundred
and forty single family owns. It was more of a
development model than just buying wholesale and sell, you know,
but we ended up doing a fairly extensive renovations and
upgrades and things like that. But then I learned also
(18:07):
very quickly that it's really tough business, very granular, and
there were plenty of opportunities in multi family space. So
we kind of pivoted into more of a multi family space,
which is our bread.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
And butter and which is a part of it, right enviartments.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
And it's you know, we we buy Class B and
C apartments, workforce housing primarily like looking to buy. What
we love to buy is other people's headaches, right or issues,
things that have been neglected that Lappi data is you know,
there's people that invest in their properties and there are
people that suck properties dry and don't reinvest the capital.
(18:46):
We make money from those guys. Right, We'll go in
and and well invest the capital and put in the
time and effort that's needed to put you know, make
sure that property is casual in the way it should be.
Interestingly enough, you know, the business model is not much
different from you know, buying that single family home in
twenty thirteen. It's looking for what the property can be
(19:09):
once it's repaired and fixed up, versus what it is today.
So it's just the same thing.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
But I totally agree because it's like, once you get
the mechanics, it's almost like it takes it's the same
process you go through no matter how small or big
the deal is. Right, Yes, there's different risk profiles, and
you know, you may get a little more nervous by
taking such a large project on, but that you know,
(19:36):
and that's what's really in any industry, I think that's
the same thing.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
But okay, regardless of that, you had this two.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Year mindset, which means you just weren't afraid to try
something and get out of your box. And what I
love that you said, I'll go back and get what
I had before. Like a lot of people are scared
to take the chance because they're worried that like it's
lost for like nothing's permanent. We we know that nothing
in life is permanent, right, it's good or bad.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Uh, we just got to keep going.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
But when I'm intrigued by you, I mean, you had
Rob and whoever else they're investors. You know, this is
not what Rob did every day of his life, so
you're you know, he didn't really operate real estate. So
you were really by yourself. And I guess was that
because of just the whole ability to come here from
(20:29):
another country and be by yourself? Like what gave you
the strength and courage and what were the challenges of that?
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Yeah? So so I love I love the line of
you know, the success leaves clues. So it's a lot
of it was talking to people, uh, you know, throughout
the career at being in New York and meetings, you know,
getting myself exposed to some very successful and interesting people,
uh glue yourself and learning from from from them, and
(21:00):
you know, I remember I remember asking one of them
sort of you know, why is it that you know
these guys doing so well versus you know some that don't.
Then one of the response was it was more graphic
then I'm going to say, but basically that they had
more guts and I knew that I needed to lean
into it. Now it doesn't mean do something that that
(21:23):
is not well thought out. So I agree with you.
I do lean into things, right like if I don't,
if I don't have that a little bit of that
butterflies in my stomach, I'm probably not growing as much
as I should. But with that said, you know I
do at least I feel that I, you know, measured
three times before I cut, if you will, so I'll
(21:45):
make sure that all the eyes a dotities crossed before
we get into it. And you know, knock on wood.
We have had fairly good success right we are our
deal profile. We were able to achieve fairly good raids
of return because we've been careful. But again, knowing that
you know you got to you gotta push, you know,
(22:05):
you got to take those rests.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
And why do you pick Bethlehem Lehigh Valley Because in theory,
you're in this big city around lots of big suburbs
with lots of action. Candidly most of your contacts are here.
You spent years, ten years, right, you know we do
business out in that area too. It's a different world.
(22:26):
I mean, it's not the same. What made you do that?
Was it like a big fish in a small pond?
Like like what made you do it?
Speaker 3 (22:35):
So a couple of things. One is in some way,
you know, Leigh Valley might have picked me. You know,
I ended up landing here. You know, a family picked
me out of Lehigh Valley. That was where I landed
when I came as an exchange student and are going
to college here. So it was the market that I knew,
you know, and as you know real estate, right, the
three rules of really locationalation location. It was I understood
(22:58):
the micro market right a new street by street, block
by block, the differences right or where to buy where
not to buy? And then to your point, right, it's
it's it's bigger fish in a smaller pond. It wasn't
as competitive as something like New York City, right, so
it allowed you to procure deals that would generate greater
(23:20):
rates of return and take you know, less risk than
some other markets. With that said, you know, we have
moved on, you know, we are now pretty much in
everywhere in you know, in all of Pennsylvania and have
started to jump into different states or buying outside of Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Still unity now.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
So at the moment, it's about four thousand at a
high point, I think we had fourteen thousand apartments. But
our business plan and strategy has been to buy, do
the work, and then sort of exit, so more of
that opportunistic type of a buyer. Then you know, buy
(24:04):
and hold and aggregate and just grow.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
So listen to this everyone.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
It came from one multifamily home, so fourteen thousand at
its height and still going in a whole other cycle
to deal with.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
That's similar to when you started.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
So and you know, all the grit and dedication got
Borko to where he is today and he should be
proud of himself.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
But there's challenges along the way. If you could give
me the two or three or two challenge, like what
challenged you the most?
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Because here, you know, it all looks good from the outside.
Where did you see your biggest growth moments? Where was
was there a time maybe that you felt, you know,
it was like out of your control. Is there any
any part of the journey that you could point out
to show the audience that it's not always what it seems.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Yeah, I mean in terms of not always what it seems.
It's a lot of work, right, I mean, I I
still work six days a week. When I when I
left New York and came to back to Leah Alley,
actually worked seven days a week. And I realized that
it's unsustainable, right, I would, I would, I would roll
out of my bed. I actually had a home office
(25:28):
that that I was way before it worked for COVID.
I would roll out of my bed, I have a
quick breakfast. I would start working at six, and I
would work till my head drop literally and then after
you know, some period of time, I realized that it's unsustainable, right,
you can't do productive work when you're tired. So I
ended up establishing these limits where I have a hard
stop eight pm. I you know, because I go to
(25:50):
better and I go to bed by nine. So I
had a hard stop eight pm, and I would not
work Saturdays. So it's but even to this day, it's
it's so it's I have a lot of friends who
I grew up with in Serbia that will look at
me and be like, what's wrong with you? Right? That
that that doesn't resonate well with a lot of people.
Maybe with the New York crowd does, but even with
people in High Valley, you know, they say, hey, there's
(26:12):
there's there's you know, more to life than there's work. Right,
So so that that certainly is the challenge, uh as
you know, I mean today is a challenging market. The
challenges are with with equity, any type of capital liquidity, right,
whether it's equity of that. There's challenges with procuring deals.
(26:34):
I think my betting average is near zero in the
last you know, year and a half two years, it's
been very hard. Even though we're we're working very hard
to procure deals, we are striking out a lot. So
this environment has its set of challenges. And then even
prior to the market correction, we were getting to a
(26:55):
point where operationally I felt we were hitting our ceiling.
You know, joke with people that were like a twelve
twelve year old startup where we never had an opportunity
to sit back. And I don't want to say we
have no structure, but it's not we didn't roll out.
You know, the structure kind of emerged, but it wasn't
(27:16):
necessarily well thought out we didn't have not all the
departments had like KPIs and SOPs and type of things
of that nature. So we actually taking the opportunity of
the downturn in the market, if you will, to grow internally.
You know where we are. We've hired somebody and we're
going through that process where we're thinking of how do
(27:40):
we position ourselves so that when next upswing the market happened,
which it will eventually, we are we're in a position
where we can take advantage of it.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
It's funny, I mean, fourteen thousand units and you're just
thinking about structure now, which people should understand because like
it's never perfect.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
It's like drinking from a fire hose when you're growing.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Right, And so how did you build okay, because you're
a crazy workaholic and not everyone needs to be at
your company for that because you know, it's how do
you get people to have that culture and own it.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Like you feel like you own it? And because like
even though.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
You had no structure, then you had to you're not
a micromanager, right, so you had to let people do
their job to actually make your company and their company
a success. So what how did that form? What were
the challenges in that and where is it today?
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Yes, I mean I think we attracted like people sort
of like like attracted to you know, and then right
if people don't have that mentality, they generally don't last.
You know, they realize this is not for them and
they'll be happier elsewhere. With that said, I mean, truth
be told these you know, you know, part of that problem, Johnny,
(29:02):
is that that you know, maybe the reason why I
work still six days a week is because I haven't
figured out a way to properly delegate. And you know,
so those are things that I'm working on now.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
You know, so you're which is good.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
I mean, like self awareness right of what you need
to do. And we're going to have a next big cycle.
Right if you just look at what's gone on with rates,
you know, four or five hundred basis points higher in
a very fast period of time, it's going to create
a lot of opportunities.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Are you seeing.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Many of those? I mean, because now it's rates higher
for longer. Everyone thought we're going to get this reprieve.
We haven't gotten it. Are you seeing distress out there
in the in the world of what you do?
Speaker 3 (29:47):
We we are, we are, but it's hard to make
sense of any of it. Yet. You know, yesterday I
spend the day in Philly walking a portfolio. We response
are with the owner, but if we're really also talking
to the bank at the same time. I mean, the
guys like with these stoves, we're trying to figure it out,
(30:08):
so we are. I mean that next week I'm planning
to fly into Indiana. There's another property that's you know,
thirty percent occupied, great state of disrepair. So I started
to see this. But having said that, not a lot
of deals are still making sense. You know, the lenders
are still you know, not willing to accept that the
(30:30):
values are marked to market. Thing right, Yeah, like it did, right.
So it's so it's kind of looking trying, you know,
waiting for if that's going to ever happen, or maybe
market is going to catch up and you're going to
be there at the table once the market catch up
and can make can make those deals.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Well, listen, they're going to be here. What you've learned
is it never happens when how or the way we'd like,
But it does happen, right, Just like nothing's permanent, things
move and change, and we just got to be there
for them and hopefully you know, you saw your blind spots.
You brought it up right, your infrastructure, and now if
(31:11):
you just apply.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
That, you're you're going to go to the moon.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
But being a person that likes to push himself, this
triathlon thing, I mean, like you just said, you work
six days a week, go to bed at nine, you
have a family, How did you get involved in that?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Was that just to destress yourself to the point where
you can go to bed at nine or you know,
and what what why did you need that challenge?
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Yes, so that's a good question. So he and yes,
he was. It was part of the stress. I mean
he actually started doing it during the two downturn. You know,
we were working a lot abroculvia and all of a sudden,
write the music stop. We had all this free time,
and it was like, you know, dogs off the leash,
(31:58):
young guy going out all the time. I'm taking clients
out drinking, you know, eating, and I'm after a couple
of months, I'm like, this is not a good path
for me. Right, I'm out there three four nights a week, entertaining, drinking.
I need to find a different way to channel my energy.
So I ended up I ended up start doing triathlons,
(32:22):
but it was it was like the first thing in
the morning, and he helped me tremendously at work. Right.
Eventually the market came back, and you know, Robin I
ended up he started Ironheim and I ended up going
working for him as employe number one was restructuring. As
you know, it's tough work, it's very challenging, and this
was my kind of a drug. Right. I would go
in the morning, I would do my run or I
would do my swim, and I felt great, you know,
(32:45):
perfectly balanced right going there and dealing with issues that
would call me. If I did it will be a
rougher day. So I ended up being a way to
kind of get some of that that that nervous energy out.
And ever since, I you.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Know, dude, like people they go do a half hour
treadmill like three times a week to do that. So
what pushed you to I mean, you went to a
whole not that because that's joke.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Yes, So that's that's the way I treat myself. If
I say to myself, I'm just gonna go work out,
then it's easy for me to wake up in the
morning and be like I'm so busy. I really don't
have time for this, and I'm going to do it tomorrow.
But if I pick a goal and I say, okay,
I'm going to do this race, then it's not negotiable. Right, Like,
That's that's where I treat myself.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
You set it's a hack, right, It's it's which I think,
is what you know. I try to do too, right,
You make it where you can't. You don't want to fail. Yes, right,
So you have a goal that you have to achieve
and you do.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
It's great. And if you don't set it up like
I said, then it's very then it's loose. But this
this was a way to make it not negotiable.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
And I know you have a beautiful wife and daughter.
Take two dollars, So where do they fit into this
whole scheme?
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Because I see, I.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
See all the time, you're always so happy when you're
around your family.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
So yeah. So so I still work from home at
decent amount, you know, giving young families, so I get
the chance to you know, I wake up and take
the morning shift with let wife sleep in so I'll
be with my girls, eat breakfast and things like that.
Then they go off to school. I do my work also,
you know, then I'll come home at four or five
(34:34):
spend a little bit of time with them, you know.
I try to take them and do different activities or
even now, like we have a gym at home, so
if I'm doing a workout, you know, I grab them
to do it with me. When I was hiking when
they were very young, I would put them in the backpack,
you know, and then hike with them. So I try
to find, you know, ways to intertwine him. Tony Robbins
has that great line called net time no extra time,
(34:57):
where you kind of combine things. Yeah, I again have
some hats where I'm able to like combine activities.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
And lending its blending extent, right, keep it going, keep
it same thing.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Well that's tremendous. Wow.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
So you're a very young person that achieved in an
ordinate amount of success, coming from some place new, that
didn't know anyone anything or what to do. What would
you give younger people, younger adults, even people that want
(35:36):
to change their career? Right, because I think we're all
living longer and like second acts like are you know,
I think going to be the biggest thing that happens,
especially during the AI we're in a revolution here, right,
Like everything's going to change.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
So what what would you give people to think about?
Speaker 3 (35:56):
I think it's two things. Wants focus? Right, do you
have to debt to find one thing that that that
you really are passionate about or wanna wanna wanna cheat
whatever that might be? Might some of the times maybe
even have a passion, but at least you enjoy it.
But so one is focused in the other's grit, right,
just being relentless. Once you identify what that is and
you you you define your focus not giving up.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Do you find forget passion?
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Right, because like I have certain passions that it doesn't
A grit doesn't apply, right, So it's almost like living
in your character traits that best are you in some
industry or thing does Don't you think that makes grit
a bigger force because if you didn't, you know, if
(36:42):
you if you didn't like it, you wouldn't stay as long.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
You may quit sooner. Right, samely with.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Triathlons, right, like you have to like triathlons to the
point where the grit kicks in.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
So you feel that's a formula for yourself.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
I think so, I think so, and I think you
know I remember listening uh the story you know where
I think it was Bill Gates's father had a had
a dinner and he was you know, all these successful people,
including Moore and Buffett, and had them all right, one thing,
one thing that they made him successful. And you know,
both Bill and Warren focused was the thing and herderd
(37:22):
percent right, like when you it's like sunlight, right, the
sunlight is so dispersed. You know, it throws a lot
of energy, but it's but it's dispersed. You know, you're
okay to be you know, exposed to it, but you
have a little bit of energy v laser hyper focused
cut through the diamond, right, cut through the metal. So
it makes it makes a lot of a lot of sense.
(37:43):
And I'm reflecting back, you know, I mean, I you know,
you know, I I'm young, but not super young, right,
and relatively speaking, as started family later in life, right
forty three, my oldest is forty years old. Everything prior
to that was work. There was you know, yes, I
included exercise, etc. But it was also a way to
(38:07):
hack the work because he gave me more energy, kept
me more focused. I was more balanced and things like that.
But when I looked at life. Prior to that, there
was nothing else. It was percent focused on work.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Well, hopefully this artificial intelligence revolution will be that you
can create three or four borcos that are doing a
lot of the other.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Stuff so that maybe you can maybe take a vacation or.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Someone you can do other things. But listen, I just
want to say, you know, kudos to you.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
You're an example of greatness, and I want to thank
you for being on the show. People are gonna love
this story. You're in an industry I love. We both
love it, and it's ever changing and I think the
next few years will be interesting and we'll.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
All get through it and we'll we'll find the.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Exciting deals and ways to shape shape it in a
positive way.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
So thank you, thank you, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Hi John Schultz here.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Thank you so much for tuning into this week's episode.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Would really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
If you would like comment, subscribe, and share with your friends.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Looking forward to being with you soon.
Every successful person got there by going through tough times.
Success is a hard ass teacher who likes to knock
you around along that journey. You know, it takes real
guts to not give up and keep going. We'll hear
stories about failures and how these leaders flip the.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Script to create success. I'm John Schultz.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Join me and let's discover how success is never really overnight.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Welcome to the John Schultz Podcast. This is gonna be
a good one.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
This is someone that I've known since he got into
the business, which is making me old.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
That's okay.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
I'm still alive, still healthy, still going. But I've been
able to watch the topic of my pott.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
What does that mean?
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I've watched the myth of overnight's success from this gentleman,
Borko Milicev, And to.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Have him on, I'm actually proud.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
I'm not related to him, you know, I've just known
him and he has such a good energy and I'm
always cheering for success, and when it comes to someone
like him, not only my cheering, I'm shouting from the
rooftops and we're gonna hear his story.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
He's Post Road Management LLC. He's the CEO.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
It started in twenty eleven. He's got a whole career
before that.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Obviously.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
What I also love about this man is he just
is balanced. He gets in work one hundred percent. But
he's also an accomplished mountaineer, a triathlon, a triathlete, you know,
anything to push the limits of what he thought he
could believe in doing, he tries to do. And it's
(02:04):
a lesson to everyone. So welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Thank you, John, Thank you for having me excited to
be here.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, it's a great man. So, uh all right, So
where'd you grow up?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
You know, we start from the beginning because I think
you know, when you're younger, it really shapes like your
ideas and that it could be that something you went
through when you were younger that like pushed you to.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Be that next thing.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
So how would you describe yourself and how would your
parents describe you?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
So background, there's a background. I grew up in Serbia, Serbia,
lived there till I was eighteen, and came to America
to study abroad as a high school student. Is exchanged
dudy in high school. After that, you know, stay for
college and met our mutual friend who gave me an
(02:53):
opportunity which is rob Berarone.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
We could say his name. He doesn't like doing, you know,
people say it his name, but we're saying.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Yes, yes, So what's interesting and I'll get into, you know,
working with rob and all that fun stuff. What's interesting.
Even while I was in Serpia, I I always wanted to,
uh to come to America. My brother says, They recalls
like pretty young young me at a young age. He
actually talks about us watching movie Wall Street and me saying,
(03:24):
you know, hey, I want to do this, and him
being like shut up, kid, like what do you know
You're like eight or however old. That was. So there
was this always this uh desire to come that I
can't I can't really explain. And uh, I was fortunate
enough where my parents agreed to send me, send me abroad,
as I said, as an exchange student. And then when
I came here, I want, I did you know anything
(03:48):
I needed to do, you know, in order to kind
of make sure that I stay in the easiest way
was education, you know, So I enrolled to a local
local college, actually the same school that rob Ron went,
the Moravian College, no Moravian University. Through that get to
know him, he gave me an internship that a full
time job. I wanted to work for him for about
(04:10):
ten years and that that's all before I started a company.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
So talk about that, because you made that sound too simple, right, Yeah,
I mean, here you are, you're in a place that
you really know nobody. You know how you know you
went to college. How did you meet a rob or
own person? Right? Because you had to have the courage
to go out there after you got here and actually
figure it out.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Yeah. Yeah, so I guest before even I met him,
you know. When I was uh, it was a pretty
good student back in Serbia, and then once I start
getting into high school, I wanted to have friends and
chase girls and have fun and all that good stuff.
But then coming to America, I realized it was either
sink or swim. So all I did was work really,
(04:57):
really hard. And that was at school and proud to
say that I ended up being valedictorian four oh a
great point average, double major wrote on her thesis and
so on and so forth, And my thinking there was
that actually, what what what what? One of the things
that incentivized I remember meeting another for student who was
doing an NBA when I told him what my dreams
(05:19):
were going to uh to New York and at that
time I thought I was going to work on Wall Street.
He's just sort of brushed me off and said, You're
never gonna make it there, right, you go to Brabian
they recruit from Harvard and things like that. So it
got me really mad, and I'm like, well, I'm gonna
I'm gonna work hard. I'm going to be the best,
you know, given the circumstance and where I am right,
I'm more I can. I couldn't kind of change at
(05:41):
that point, and so I ended up I feel like,
you know, kicking ass there, you know, the best that
I could, so, you know when. So how I met
Rob is in addition to studying, I would work every
waking hours that I could, right so, at school allowed
you to work so many hours a week. I worked
(06:02):
some stuff outside of school, which is important I can
talk about it because he also led me a little,
you know to real estate. But during my during the
time off or when they were holidays, I would work
at school and one of the places I worked for
was a lumni office. And again through the conversation sort
of what do you want to do and explain to
them and say, hey, look, we have this database. Why
don't you look at who is you new York that
(06:26):
might be able to help you. So I went to
the database, and you know, I put in New York City.
I kind of put you know, financial institutions, and I
selected a very specific year of graduations. You know, I
didn't want somebody that's too young and couldn't really help me,
and somebody that's much older and very you know, towards
the tail end of their career and just might not care. So,
(06:48):
not surprisingly Moravian, I guess I got a very short
list and I was on one of them. And so
I email Rob and for those that don't know Rob,
Rob as an OCD, right, add so or rather add
you know that city. But you know, I was lucky
that he responded in ten to fifteen minutes. He must
have been an email at that point in time. If
(07:08):
he wasn't, I probably would have never gotten respond But
he sort of responded back and said, you know, hey,
come into New York City and you know, let's chat.
And so I ended up going meeting with him. He
was starting a large long group that moving from Charlotte,
building out his team and he said, come on, you know,
(07:29):
I'll give you a job for a month, and I
think he was paying me something like two hundred bucks
a week. He was bare enough to even pay for
a bus ticket to commute from Bethlehem to New York,
which was I think over a two hour bus ride
back and forth. And you know, I didn't have money.
My parents were sort of middle class in Serbia, so
(07:51):
it really couldn't afford a college. I had to work
in the summer. I remember going to talking to another
alumni and telling him, look, I have this dilemma. I
could go and work for a great alum in New
York City to kind of what I wanted to do,
or I could stay here and work the summer just
to pay for school. So I got some good coaching
there where they and there was the first lesson negotiations
(08:13):
where they told me go back to your college and
explain to the more opportunities you have and tell them
you know they'll be making a mistake if they don't
help you out. And sure enough, he kind of worked out.
Remember the DCFO of college literally pull the check book
and he's like, how much you're going to make in
the summer. He was like five grand. He's like, here's
a check for five grand. Now go and you know,
(08:33):
chase your dreams and you'll pass back when you can.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
So that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
I hope I'll still talk to that person or now
he is retired.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
I see him at functions because of acts like that,
and because of meeting Rob. I'm very loyal to Moravians,
so I still do a lot. So oftentimes I'll see
him at different events and different functions. And I'd tell
this story to a lot of people because I think
it's so unique.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Rob's a giver. Yes, you said, you know, he.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Is a genuine giver, so I can see why he
would help you. And whatever Rob's in, he's loyalty, Like
He's got amazing loyalty, right, So that's so cool. So
you commuted from Bethlehem? So for how long did that last?
Speaker 3 (09:24):
So that was about two weeks? I don't know if
they were trying to see if they can shake me off,
and then when they realized they could, they actually ended
up getting me a corporate housing. But probably lasted for
about two three weeks. And then incidentally, I was going
to leave and I had another internship line up to
work for Marivin Alam, who ran a Johnson and Johnson
(09:48):
medical division in instable, Turkey. And so you know, I
work hard for Rob and you know our internship is
coming towards the end. And I said, look, you know
I'm about to leave, so why don't you stay. I'm like,
I don't, like I have to explore different options, you know,
graduating in about a year. You know, I got a
brun on my network. See you know what I can do.
(10:08):
So he's like, well, how about if you stay and
you continue to do well, whatever, if I offer your
job after you graduate? Right, and that that sort of
changed everything. I ended up staying the rest of the
summer with him, and true enough, I went back to
finish my senior year and it's at you know, mid
September I had an offer in hand, which made it
for a very fun a senior year. That's amazing. Yeah,
(10:33):
it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
All right, So you worked for Rob now and it
was Wakovia, right.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Yeah, so right, I first interviewed him. I really got
hooked in real estate. As I mentioned, I wanted to
kind of do all sht in stocks because that's what
I thought, or seeing the movies, what the financing is.
But then he opened a whole new world of real
estate that met some really cool people, including yourself, that
were doing some amazing stuff. And as a you know,
young twenty some year old impressionary guy, I sort of
(11:02):
was like, well, this is what I want to do.
So even after when I left internship, I came back
from my senior year, I started looking for for real
estate and the easiest entry point for me was single
family homes, and in particular I was looking at rio properties,
real estale properties. At that time, there was much different environment,
(11:25):
much different technology than it's today, you know. So I
would go on a hot website and and pull the
you know, the deeds and do my own like camp
analysis and things like that. And I ended up actually
buying a first house a few months a few months
into my my senior year. It was a distress property,
needed a lot of repair. I was, I guess in
(11:49):
a good way ignorant where even though I didn't I
wasn't really skilled, you know, to do things. I thought, well,
you know, if other people can do it, I can
do it. So I ended up buying a home depot
one tow three and learning how to install windows and
how to hang kitchen cabinets, and you know, hiring some
of my college bodies to help me with like some
of those basics. And so that was my first first
(12:12):
home that I bought. And then after I graduated went
to work. PABA would commute back and forth whenever I
had a weekend off it. It wasn't a much. I
would come back to Lehigh Valley and was sort of
first chasing single family homes and then eventually, in two
thousand and five both my first multi deal, which was
a sixteen unit project here in Metlhem as well.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
All right, so let's talk about this.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
So you're working a job, but you have this work
ethic that's amazing. And because you had to write, you
basically were in school and you had to make money
to survive.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
So that trained you for not.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Being afraid to do more and getting out of your box.
And it's funny, like you said, you bought your first home.
People come to me all the time and say, how.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Do I get into real estate? You're my story, Like
I tell your story.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
I'm like, well, I know someone who's just bought that
first house, didn't know what they were doing, but wasn't
afraid to fail, wasn't afraid to learn, knew it may
not be perfect.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
And what's so good about real estate?
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Because we live in it, we eating it, we shop
in it, we go on vacation in it.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
It's everything right. It's a huge market segment. And but
you can enter real estate because you can.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Just buy a small home and rent it out and
that can be your start. So so you're working at
Wacoba right with Rob for years and years and years
and you're doing this side gig. I'm sure you had
a lot of a lot of challenges and failures through it.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
What what?
Speaker 1 (13:45):
What?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
What would you say? Was the one thing that said,
like why am I doing this? Moment like that? But
you kept going? Was there any cool stories?
Speaker 3 (13:54):
I really never had that doubt what ended up? You know?
The only thing that to mind is eventually right as
as I kind of continued to buy and aggregate some
units and had a couple of hundred units at one point,
I had some employees, it was becoming a very apparent
that I couldn't do both. And you know, like I
love Rob, I mean he was best man in my wedding.
(14:16):
I could sit in my American dad type of thing.
My brother and so it was I never thought like
very it was very hard for me to think about
even leaving him, right and but this was, you know,
something that was passion. And it was him actually who
came and kind of encouraged. He saw it and he said, look,
I think you gotta do this. You got to pursue it.
And at first I didn't understand it, right. I felt
(14:38):
like I was being pushed out from somebody that you know,
you genuinely love and respect so much. So it took
me maybe about a year to kind of process and realize.
And I always say Robb is generally always write so
but I didn't see it at that time. Like I said,
it took about a year maybe to realize it. Then
sat down with him and said, look, I think you're right.
(14:59):
I got to pursue this. And uh, you know, he
was very supportive when he happened. As a matter of fact,
you know, through the conversation telling him what I wanted
to do, we find a way to work together, and
to this day we are, we're we're partners.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
That's that's like the first of all, like you had
a little separation anxiety because look at you're from another country.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
He was your dad and in a good way.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
And friends, I mean, however you want to it's how
you feel what he is and he supported you and
it gave you that little push which I always feel
like there's always someone that's there pushing us and if
we just open ourselves to feeling it, because it could
be someone that you don't even know that well, but
(15:44):
you happen to be with them. Right. I think people
come in and out of your life for all these
different reasons. Uh, and Rob not only was he there
for most reasons, he's still.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
There and you guys are partners. So okay, you know
you had this side gig. It was one hand. I
think you got up to ninety houses, right or some
to talk.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
About like the volume, talk about what like what was
your next move? We are going to have guts because
you know, you had a system that you knew, but
then you had the morph into something else.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Yeah. So it's actually so bought a couple of houses
starting two thousand and three and two thousand and five,
started buying multis, you know, bought a couple and then
as you know, six seven and eight, you know, actually
was disciplined enough that I wasn't buying into those years,
which was a good thing. And then eight or nine
(16:38):
kind of you know, liquidity crisis similar to maybe what
we're going through now. So there was just not a
lot of activity. And then in twenty ten eleven and
sticks started to open up. I ended up buying a
bunch of distressed properties, you know, some bankruptcy sales, note
buys and things of that nh old multifamily. So by
twenty twelve, I had as a ment a couple of
(17:00):
hundred units. I had, I believe four or five employees,
and you know, I make a couple of bucks, had
a little bit of savings. By thinking is all right,
I'm gonna I'm gonna quit. You know, I had a
good thing going on it rob but I'm gonna quit.
You know, I'm gonna give this two years, see if
I can make it work. If he doesn't, I'm gonna
back from my job back.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
You know.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
So what I thought at that time was that, you know,
in twenty twelve, there was a lot of money was
going into the smart money was going to sing single
family space. So the idea is that's what I'm gonna do.
I'm going to aggregate it, buy a bunch of rios,
aggregated and sell them to bigger private equity.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
And you had you had the track record or like
like you've been doing it for a long time already,
so it wasn't like it something new, right, No.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
That's right, that's right. And so Rob actually, you know,
his idea was, hey, why don't I help you raise
a fund that we do this together, and that's what
we dated. So we ended up actually about one hundred
and forty single family owns. It was more of a
development model than just buying wholesale and sell, you know,
but we ended up doing a fairly extensive renovations and
upgrades and things like that. But then I learned also
(18:07):
very quickly that it's really tough business, very granular, and
there were plenty of opportunities in multi family space. So
we kind of pivoted into more of a multi family space,
which is our bread.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
And butter and which is a part of it, right enviartments.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
And it's you know, we we buy Class B and
C apartments, workforce housing primarily like looking to buy. What
we love to buy is other people's headaches, right or issues,
things that have been neglected that Lappi data is you know,
there's people that invest in their properties and there are
people that suck properties dry and don't reinvest the capital.
(18:46):
We make money from those guys. Right, We'll go in
and and well invest the capital and put in the
time and effort that's needed to put you know, make
sure that property is casual in the way it should be.
Interestingly enough, you know, the business model is not much
different from you know, buying that single family home in
twenty thirteen. It's looking for what the property can be
(19:09):
once it's repaired and fixed up, versus what it is today.
So it's just the same thing.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
But I totally agree because it's like, once you get
the mechanics, it's almost like it takes it's the same
process you go through no matter how small or big
the deal is. Right, Yes, there's different risk profiles, and
you know, you may get a little more nervous by
taking such a large project on, but that you know,
(19:36):
and that's what's really in any industry, I think that's
the same thing.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
But okay, regardless of that, you had this two.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Year mindset, which means you just weren't afraid to try
something and get out of your box. And what I
love that you said, I'll go back and get what
I had before. Like a lot of people are scared
to take the chance because they're worried that like it's
lost for like nothing's permanent. We we know that nothing
in life is permanent, right, it's good or bad.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Uh, we just got to keep going.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
But when I'm intrigued by you, I mean, you had
Rob and whoever else they're investors. You know, this is
not what Rob did every day of his life, so
you're you know, he didn't really operate real estate. So
you were really by yourself. And I guess was that
because of just the whole ability to come here from
(20:29):
another country and be by yourself? Like what gave you
the strength and courage and what were the challenges of that?
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Yeah? So so I love I love the line of
you know, the success leaves clues. So it's a lot
of it was talking to people, uh, you know, throughout
the career at being in New York and meetings, you know,
getting myself exposed to some very successful and interesting people,
uh glue yourself and learning from from from them, and
(21:00):
you know, I remember I remember asking one of them
sort of you know, why is it that you know
these guys doing so well versus you know some that don't.
Then one of the response was it was more graphic
then I'm going to say, but basically that they had
more guts and I knew that I needed to lean
into it. Now it doesn't mean do something that that
(21:23):
is not well thought out. So I agree with you.
I do lean into things, right like if I don't,
if I don't have that a little bit of that
butterflies in my stomach, I'm probably not growing as much
as I should. But with that said, you know I
do at least I feel that I, you know, measured
three times before I cut, if you will, so I'll
(21:45):
make sure that all the eyes a dotities crossed before
we get into it. And you know, knock on wood.
We have had fairly good success right we are our
deal profile. We were able to achieve fairly good raids
of return because we've been careful. But again, knowing that
you know you got to you gotta push, you know,
(22:05):
you got to take those rests.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
And why do you pick Bethlehem Lehigh Valley Because in theory,
you're in this big city around lots of big suburbs
with lots of action. Candidly most of your contacts are here.
You spent years, ten years, right, you know we do
business out in that area too. It's a different world.
(22:26):
I mean, it's not the same. What made you do that?
Was it like a big fish in a small pond?
Like like what made you do it?
Speaker 3 (22:35):
So a couple of things. One is in some way,
you know, Leigh Valley might have picked me. You know,
I ended up landing here. You know, a family picked
me out of Lehigh Valley. That was where I landed
when I came as an exchange student and are going
to college here. So it was the market that I knew,
you know, and as you know real estate, right, the
three rules of really locationalation location. It was I understood
(22:58):
the micro market right a new street by street, block
by block, the differences right or where to buy where
not to buy? And then to your point, right, it's
it's it's bigger fish in a smaller pond. It wasn't
as competitive as something like New York City, right, so
it allowed you to procure deals that would generate greater
(23:20):
rates of return and take you know, less risk than
some other markets. With that said, you know, we have
moved on, you know, we are now pretty much in
everywhere in you know, in all of Pennsylvania and have
started to jump into different states or buying outside of Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Still unity now.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
So at the moment, it's about four thousand at a
high point, I think we had fourteen thousand apartments. But
our business plan and strategy has been to buy, do
the work, and then sort of exit, so more of
that opportunistic type of a buyer. Then you know, buy
(24:04):
and hold and aggregate and just grow.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
So listen to this everyone.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
It came from one multifamily home, so fourteen thousand at
its height and still going in a whole other cycle
to deal with.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
That's similar to when you started.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
So and you know, all the grit and dedication got
Borko to where he is today and he should be
proud of himself.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
But there's challenges along the way. If you could give
me the two or three or two challenge, like what
challenged you the most?
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Because here, you know, it all looks good from the outside.
Where did you see your biggest growth moments? Where was
was there a time maybe that you felt, you know,
it was like out of your control. Is there any
any part of the journey that you could point out
to show the audience that it's not always what it seems.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Yeah, I mean in terms of not always what it seems.
It's a lot of work, right, I mean, I I
still work six days a week. When I when I
left New York and came to back to Leah Alley,
actually worked seven days a week. And I realized that
it's unsustainable, right, I would, I would, I would roll
out of my bed. I actually had a home office
(25:28):
that that I was way before it worked for COVID.
I would roll out of my bed, I have a
quick breakfast. I would start working at six, and I
would work till my head drop literally and then after
you know, some period of time, I realized that it's unsustainable, right,
you can't do productive work when you're tired. So I
ended up establishing these limits where I have a hard
stop eight pm. I you know, because I go to
(25:50):
better and I go to bed by nine. So I
had a hard stop eight pm, and I would not
work Saturdays. So it's but even to this day, it's
it's so it's I have a lot of friends who
I grew up with in Serbia that will look at
me and be like, what's wrong with you? Right? That
that that doesn't resonate well with a lot of people.
Maybe with the New York crowd does, but even with
people in High Valley, you know, they say, hey, there's
(26:12):
there's there's you know, more to life than there's work. Right,
So so that that certainly is the challenge, uh as
you know, I mean today is a challenging market. The
challenges are with with equity, any type of capital liquidity, right,
whether it's equity of that. There's challenges with procuring deals.
(26:34):
I think my betting average is near zero in the
last you know, year and a half two years, it's
been very hard. Even though we're we're working very hard
to procure deals, we are striking out a lot. So
this environment has its set of challenges. And then even
prior to the market correction, we were getting to a
(26:55):
point where operationally I felt we were hitting our ceiling.
You know, joke with people that were like a twelve
twelve year old startup where we never had an opportunity
to sit back. And I don't want to say we
have no structure, but it's not we didn't roll out.
You know, the structure kind of emerged, but it wasn't
(27:16):
necessarily well thought out we didn't have not all the
departments had like KPIs and SOPs and type of things
of that nature. So we actually taking the opportunity of
the downturn in the market, if you will, to grow internally.
You know where we are. We've hired somebody and we're
going through that process where we're thinking of how do
(27:40):
we position ourselves so that when next upswing the market happened,
which it will eventually, we are we're in a position
where we can take advantage of it.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
It's funny, I mean, fourteen thousand units and you're just
thinking about structure now, which people should understand because like
it's never perfect.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
It's like drinking from a fire hose when you're growing.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Right, And so how did you build okay, because you're
a crazy workaholic and not everyone needs to be at
your company for that because you know, it's how do
you get people to have that culture and own it.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Like you feel like you own it? And because like
even though.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
You had no structure, then you had to you're not
a micromanager, right, so you had to let people do
their job to actually make your company and their company
a success. So what how did that form? What were
the challenges in that and where is it today?
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Yes, I mean I think we attracted like people sort
of like like attracted to you know, and then right
if people don't have that mentality, they generally don't last.
You know, they realize this is not for them and
they'll be happier elsewhere. With that said, I mean, truth
be told these you know, you know, part of that problem, Johnny,
(29:02):
is that that you know, maybe the reason why I
work still six days a week is because I haven't
figured out a way to properly delegate. And you know,
so those are things that I'm working on now.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
You know, so you're which is good.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
I mean, like self awareness right of what you need
to do. And we're going to have a next big cycle.
Right if you just look at what's gone on with rates,
you know, four or five hundred basis points higher in
a very fast period of time, it's going to create
a lot of opportunities.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Are you seeing.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Many of those? I mean, because now it's rates higher
for longer. Everyone thought we're going to get this reprieve.
We haven't gotten it. Are you seeing distress out there
in the in the world of what you do?
Speaker 3 (29:47):
We we are, we are, but it's hard to make
sense of any of it. Yet. You know, yesterday I
spend the day in Philly walking a portfolio. We response
are with the owner, but if we're really also talking
to the bank at the same time. I mean, the
guys like with these stoves, we're trying to figure it out,
(30:08):
so we are. I mean that next week I'm planning
to fly into Indiana. There's another property that's you know,
thirty percent occupied, great state of disrepair. So I started
to see this. But having said that, not a lot
of deals are still making sense. You know, the lenders
are still you know, not willing to accept that the
(30:30):
values are marked to market. Thing right, Yeah, like it did, right.
So it's so it's kind of looking trying, you know,
waiting for if that's going to ever happen, or maybe
market is going to catch up and you're going to
be there at the table once the market catch up
and can make can make those deals.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Well, listen, they're going to be here. What you've learned
is it never happens when how or the way we'd like,
But it does happen, right, Just like nothing's permanent, things
move and change, and we just got to be there
for them and hopefully you know, you saw your blind spots.
You brought it up right, your infrastructure, and now if
(31:11):
you just apply.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
That, you're you're going to go to the moon.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
But being a person that likes to push himself, this
triathlon thing, I mean, like you just said, you work
six days a week, go to bed at nine, you
have a family, How did you get involved in that?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Was that just to destress yourself to the point where
you can go to bed at nine or you know,
and what what why did you need that challenge?
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Yes, so that's a good question. So he and yes,
he was. It was part of the stress. I mean
he actually started doing it during the two downturn. You know,
we were working a lot abroculvia and all of a sudden,
write the music stop. We had all this free time,
and it was like, you know, dogs off the leash,
(31:58):
young guy going out all the time. I'm taking clients
out drinking, you know, eating, and I'm after a couple
of months, I'm like, this is not a good path
for me. Right, I'm out there three four nights a week, entertaining, drinking.
I need to find a different way to channel my energy.
So I ended up I ended up start doing triathlons,
(32:22):
but it was it was like the first thing in
the morning, and he helped me tremendously at work. Right.
Eventually the market came back, and you know, Robin I
ended up he started Ironheim and I ended up going
working for him as employe number one was restructuring. As
you know, it's tough work, it's very challenging, and this
was my kind of a drug. Right. I would go
in the morning, I would do my run or I
would do my swim, and I felt great, you know,
(32:45):
perfectly balanced right going there and dealing with issues that
would call me. If I did it will be a
rougher day. So I ended up being a way to
kind of get some of that that that nervous energy out.
And ever since, I you.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Know, dude, like people they go do a half hour
treadmill like three times a week to do that. So
what pushed you to I mean, you went to a
whole not that because that's joke.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Yes, So that's that's the way I treat myself. If
I say to myself, I'm just gonna go work out,
then it's easy for me to wake up in the
morning and be like I'm so busy. I really don't
have time for this, and I'm going to do it tomorrow.
But if I pick a goal and I say, okay,
I'm going to do this race, then it's not negotiable. Right, Like,
That's that's where I treat myself.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
You set it's a hack, right, It's it's which I think,
is what you know. I try to do too, right,
You make it where you can't. You don't want to fail. Yes, right,
So you have a goal that you have to achieve
and you do.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
It's great. And if you don't set it up like
I said, then it's very then it's loose. But this
this was a way to make it not negotiable.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
And I know you have a beautiful wife and daughter.
Take two dollars, So where do they fit into this
whole scheme?
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Because I see, I.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
See all the time, you're always so happy when you're
around your family.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
So yeah. So so I still work from home at
decent amount, you know, giving young families, so I get
the chance to you know, I wake up and take
the morning shift with let wife sleep in so I'll
be with my girls, eat breakfast and things like that.
Then they go off to school. I do my work also,
you know, then I'll come home at four or five
(34:34):
spend a little bit of time with them, you know.
I try to take them and do different activities or
even now, like we have a gym at home, so
if I'm doing a workout, you know, I grab them
to do it with me. When I was hiking when
they were very young, I would put them in the backpack,
you know, and then hike with them. So I try
to find, you know, ways to intertwine him. Tony Robbins
has that great line called net time no extra time,
(34:57):
where you kind of combine things. Yeah, I again have
some hats where I'm able to like combine activities.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
And lending its blending extent, right, keep it going, keep
it same thing.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Well that's tremendous. Wow.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
So you're a very young person that achieved in an
ordinate amount of success, coming from some place new, that
didn't know anyone anything or what to do. What would
you give younger people, younger adults, even people that want
(35:36):
to change their career? Right, because I think we're all
living longer and like second acts like are you know,
I think going to be the biggest thing that happens,
especially during the AI we're in a revolution here, right,
Like everything's going to change.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
So what what would you give people to think about?
Speaker 3 (35:56):
I think it's two things. Wants focus? Right, do you
have to debt to find one thing that that that
you really are passionate about or wanna wanna wanna cheat
whatever that might be? Might some of the times maybe
even have a passion, but at least you enjoy it.
But so one is focused in the other's grit, right,
just being relentless. Once you identify what that is and
you you you define your focus not giving up.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Do you find forget passion?
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Right, because like I have certain passions that it doesn't
A grit doesn't apply, right, So it's almost like living
in your character traits that best are you in some
industry or thing does Don't you think that makes grit
a bigger force because if you didn't, you know, if
(36:42):
you if you didn't like it, you wouldn't stay as long.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
You may quit sooner. Right, samely with.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Triathlons, right, like you have to like triathlons to the
point where the grit kicks in.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
So you feel that's a formula for yourself.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
I think so, I think so, and I think you
know I remember listening uh the story you know where
I think it was Bill Gates's father had a had
a dinner and he was you know, all these successful people,
including Moore and Buffett, and had them all right, one thing,
one thing that they made him successful. And you know,
both Bill and Warren focused was the thing and herderd
(37:22):
percent right, like when you it's like sunlight, right, the
sunlight is so dispersed. You know, it throws a lot
of energy, but it's but it's dispersed. You know, you're
okay to be you know, exposed to it, but you
have a little bit of energy v laser hyper focused
cut through the diamond, right, cut through the metal. So
it makes it makes a lot of a lot of sense.
(37:43):
And I'm reflecting back, you know, I mean, I you know,
you know, I I'm young, but not super young, right,
and relatively speaking, as started family later in life, right
forty three, my oldest is forty years old. Everything prior
to that was work. There was you know, yes, I
included exercise, etc. But it was also a way to
(38:07):
hack the work because he gave me more energy, kept
me more focused. I was more balanced and things like that.
But when I looked at life. Prior to that, there
was nothing else. It was percent focused on work.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Well, hopefully this artificial intelligence revolution will be that you
can create three or four borcos that are doing a
lot of the other.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Stuff so that maybe you can maybe take a vacation or.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Someone you can do other things. But listen, I just
want to say, you know, kudos to you.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
You're an example of greatness, and I want to thank
you for being on the show. People are gonna love
this story. You're in an industry I love. We both
love it, and it's ever changing and I think the
next few years will be interesting and we'll.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
All get through it and we'll we'll find the.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Exciting deals and ways to shape shape it in a
positive way.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
So thank you, thank you, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Hi John Schultz here.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Thank you so much for tuning into this week's episode.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Would really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
If you would like comment, subscribe, and share with your friends.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Looking forward to being with you soon.
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