Breaking Stereotypes as a Black Doctor, He Asks, What Legacy Are You Building For Your Grandchildren?

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I can't teach what I don't know.
So for my child to be a broadthinker, then I need to be a
broad thinker.
For them to be a reader, then Ineed to be a reader.
If I'm sitting around, wedidn't have video games when I
grew up.
But if I'm sitting aroundwatching TV and playing video
games, then they will sit aroundand watch TV and play video
games.
So if I'm smoking weed, theywill smoke weed.

(00:20):
If I exercise, they willexercise.
Right, who I am becomes whothey are.
De facto.
They got two choices theyeither assimilate into that
environment, which most peopledo, or say I hate you, I hate
that environment, and run fromit.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
All right, welcome to another edition, another
fantastic edition.
I can't wait to do all these ofour Journey to Freedom podcast

(00:58):
because I get to meet and DrUnderwood I don't know if you
have watched any of the showsbefore, but we're about 170
episodes in and so every time Iget to do one I'm just so
excited and so happy because Iget to learn from other people.
I say that I am the mostfortunate one in here because I

(01:19):
get to grow, I get to learn, Iget to talk to folks who have
been doing it and, of course,the Journey to Freedom program
is just that.
It's like what have we beendoing as black men over the last
?
You know however old we are Ihappen to be 60.
I know Dr Underwood pretty muchwent to high school the same
time I did, so we're rightaround the same age.
So what have we been doing withour lives to make a difference?

(01:40):
You know we had I think I justkind of explained to you to make
a difference.
You know we had I took I justkind of explained to you I took
a group of 18 black men down toAlabama in January to kind of do
a civil rights tour and that Ihad only been there one time
before.
The group that I brought kind offrom the West several of them
had never been to Alabama, neverbeen to the South and just
going.

(02:00):
Okay, this is a different world, this is a different place.
You know, we see all the movies, we see all the pictures, we
see.
You know, sometimes we get ahold of books and things that
folks don't want us to, or weget stories from relatives.
But to me there was nothinglike going there, feeling the
atmosphere.

(02:21):
It was palpable, it was thick,it was going to the Bryan
Stevenson Museum and you know,I've been to the
African-American Museum inWashington DC.
But Washington DC is not theSouth.
Right, there's just somethingabout being here in New York.
Now is not the South.

(02:42):
There's something when you goto a restaurant and you ask a
waiter or a waitress, like youknow, how much are you getting
paid?
And they say we're getting paid$2.15 an hour.
I said, well, you make a lot ontips.
No, we don't make very much ontips.
So you're about $500 a month.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah, and you're living on that in 2025?

Speaker 2 (03:01):
You're living on $500 a month.
How is that even close topossible?
And then you go throughneighborhoods that you know were
segregated back in the 60s andare still segregated in 2025.
And you know the deficit.
You see houses on one side ofthe street that are nicer and
kept up, and then you go to theother side and they're project

(03:23):
housing.
And then you see food desertswhere you're in a predominantly
black neighborhood that has onlyliquor stores to buy food at
and not grocery stores, andyou're like this is really the
platform where they sold slavesis still intact At Williams

(03:43):
Memorial.
I'm like, how come this is stillhere?
I, whether it's memorial, butI'm like how come this is still
here?
Why, you know I, I get it, it'shistory and but you know, the
pettus bridge is still calledthe pettus bridge, even though
you know there's been.
The historical society saysthat, you know, this man's name
is important to remember, andI'm like this wasn't a good man,
you know.
And so to have that and to say,okay, that great.

(04:05):
But then what are we doing?
How are we impacting the world?
How are we impacting society?
And so, you know, I've asked DrAnywhere to be on today so we
can talk about his journey andtalk about what he's been able
to do.
You know we were talking beforethe show and he's, you know,
actually in the running for thepresident of the American
Medical Association and you know, actually in the running for
the president of the AmericanMedical Association and, you

(04:26):
know, you think, would that havebeen impossible in the 50s?
Would that have been impossiblein the 60s?
No, it wasn't even.
You know, for him just to be anMD in the 50s and 60s and be
able to serve the people he'sbeen able to serve and where
we've come and the differencehe's made.
And so, like I do with all ofour guests, I ask them to tell

(04:49):
their story and then we're goingto chop it up after that and,
you know, kind of talk about thereality of our lives and what
it means to be a dad andidentity.
And you know we'll talk aboutsome health things.
You know one of the things andI don't know if this has changed
, but you know my understandingis that our life expectancy as
black men is right around that72, 73 years old and I'm hoping

(05:09):
it's getting older.
I have a father who's 86 now,who's running in track, meets
and doing some phenomenal stuff,but I know health hasn't been,
you know, something that we'veconcentrated on or that we spend
time on, and I know we're doingbetter now, but there's
probably some still pitfalls asa culture that we continue to do
.
That isn't good for our bodies,isn't good for our health and

(05:31):
high blood pressure and diabetesand all those things and maybe
we can talk a little bit aboutthat.
But before we do that, I reallywant to talk about your story
and how you know, how you becameto be and who you are, and so
the floor is yours.
Go ahead, I can't wait to hearit.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
I want to start off with this.
I've had the opportunity to doa lot of great things and I'm
going to get into that, but whatI want the audience to really
understand that there's nodifference between me and them.
Period.
I didn't fall out of heaven.
There was no special thing thathappened to me.
I tell people I rose up out ofhell and what I'm going to talk

(06:13):
about is what that rise is like,and when I talk to my mentees,
I share these things with themso that they can actually really
understand what life is for usand begin to to think about well
, if that's the reality, thenwhat do we do to not make that a
reality tomorrow?
Okay, so you know I was.
I was, as I said earlier.
You know I was born in coloradosprings, on the air force base,

(06:36):
so my father was in the army in1965.
That makes me 60 as well.
So then, what month in?

Speaker 2 (06:42):
1965, in 1965?
.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
January, january.
I came in Two months older thanyou, so you were in Colorado,
france and I was born in Denver,general.
Yeah, Same time, Same time.
Right, you know so.
Then you know and, and, and.
Within six months they were indivorce.
So you know, truth of thematter is that they were
separated.
My mother went to visit them,Things happened, and here come

(07:07):
me Right now.
Now there's a caveat to that.
My mother, after having mysister, she was informed that if
she tried to have another childshe could die in labor.
Hey, it's.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
Dr B, and let me ask you something just here real
quick.
Are you tired of doing the samething over and over and not
getting the results you want?
Are you serious about makingsome changes this year that will
impact you in a huge way?
Maybe you're putting outcontent right now and it's not
turning into customers.
Or maybe you're uploadingvideos, but you're not sure why
or how it's even going to help.
You know, I see a lot of peoplethat are making a whole bunch

(07:41):
of cold calls to the wrongpeople and no one's answering.
No one wants to talk to you.
It might just be that you'rejust doing what you've been
doing and crossing your fingers,hoping it finally works this
year, but let me tell you what.
That is not a strategy and itwill continue not to work.
That's why I created thepodcasting challenge and it's
coming up fast.

(08:01):
In just a few days, I'm goingto walk you through the mindset,
the tool set and the skill setyou need to create a powerful
podcast.
That's right, a podcast.
You won't believe what apodcast can do, one that builds
real value and creates newclients.
And if you grab a VIP ticket,you'll get to join me for a
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(08:22):
questions and help you tailoreverything to your goals.
This is your moment.
This is your year.
Go to thepodcastingchallengecomright now and save your seat.
The link is in the show notesand the description.
Thank you for watching thesepodcasts.
Now let's get back to theconversation.
Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
All right.
So that was in the circle, youknow, in the backdrop of her
carrying me for those ninemonths, understanding that she
might not survive.
So my mother says that I got agreat piece.
I read, I studied, I waspreparing, you know, for the
idea that that I may not livethrough this.
I may not live through this.

(09:01):
So luckily she did and I did,and that's why I was born at the
Air Force Hospital, becausethey were providing better care
than what my mother believed,the care she would receive in
Gary and Deanna, right when shewould have had me.

(09:21):
That's where she grew up andwhere I ended up growing up up.
So moved to gary, I'm there, II start school.
You know I'm in a loving familyaunts, grandmother, cousins, I
mean.
You know we're, you know we'relike that, that large, loving
family, loving neighborhood,everyone you know knows each
other.
Like you know, I tell peopleyou, I remember going trick or

(09:43):
treating when I was five yearsold and we could name everyone
who lived on going up 25th andJefferson up to 27th, back down
27th, right to 25th, and wewould lay the candy out and so
if you got Snickers or whateveryou could say, I've got three
Snickers Mrs Jones, mrs Allen,mrs So-and-so right, and you can

(10:06):
lay those Snickers out.
You wouldn't know which Snickercame from which person, but you
knew the three people who gaveyou Snickers, right, I mean,
that's how close that communitywas.
That also meant that whateveryou did, they would drop down on
you in a heartbeat.
I mean, they were boom.
They didn't have cell phones,but that phone, that phone be
jumping off the hook.
And you were held accountablefor your behavior because you

(10:29):
were representing the family.
You don't represent you, yourepresent your grandmother, your
mother, your cousins.
Right, I'm going to call yourgrandmother, all, right, I mean,
so that's important.
So I started school.
I went to kindergarten, throughthe second grade, saint
monica's um elementary.
It was a black catholic schooland they believed in excellence.

(10:53):
They believed that we all werecapable of excellence.
I mean, it was just clear.
It was just a culture we expectyou to produce.
They had a television stationwithin the school and we would
have to do like each class wouldrotate to see who were the two,
you know, the two announcerswho would be given the news that

(11:13):
morning.
Right, I mean, it was like aphenomenal place and I didn't
understand that, of course, whyI was there and, to be honest, I
wasn't that bright.
My sister was an academicsuperstar to the point that the
teachers would ask me there wasa joke.
I don't know it was a joke, butthey would say we think he's
adopted.
Oh, my god, he's adoptedbecause he can't be like you.

(11:39):
Sure, marching your sisterBecause she seemed to understand
stuff and you seem to just belike we can't say the word, but
you're like what the heck?
Then I would always say I'm alate bloomer, I'm a late bloomer
, I'm a late bloomer.
The idea that I was going tocatch on, right, I just knew I

(12:01):
would catch on, so, but I wasn't.
But.
But the interesting thing isthat I was at grade level.
Okay, right, it wasn't that Iwas behind, I was at grade level
, but they were.
You know, I'm average here andtheir expectations are here and
my sister was performing here.
So they're like she'sperforming here, our

(12:24):
expectations here, and you'rethis average dude right here,
and we'll understand why youcan't get up here.
That was, that's the backdrop,okay, but everything wrapped
around me because theexpectation was that I had it in
me.
So it was sort of like constantlove.
We expect you to be able to geta hundred on the spelling test.

(12:46):
How come you never got ahundred on spelling test?
That's what I'm talking about,you know, right, okay, so in
1974 we you know the supreme,1973, I think the supreme court
passed me getting rid ofrestrictive covenants so now
blacks could move into whiteneighborhoods.
My mother read it in the paper,jumped in a car, drove to

(13:08):
Miller, part of Gary, where thelake is, and bought, bought the
first house she saw for sale,really the first one she saw for
sale, and that was the wholeprocess.
Right, because they were, youknow.
So we move in there and youknow folks hate us.
You know you're selling, youknow you're lowering our
property value.
And that's the first time Irealized that my skin made me a

(13:31):
criminal.
Right, I've never experiencedthat ever.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
Right you know.
Correct me if I'm right though,because because I you know, all
I know is the stories of garyindiana.
Right, we hear about jacksonfive and all that, but what I
understand it was a lot of garywas predominantly black and, you
know, most of the folks that Italked to in that era really
kind of didn't even interactwith white folks at all, because

(13:57):
the community was, like youwere saying to me was, so
close-knit, it was so tight,there was, you guys had your own
stores, you had pretty mucheverything where you never
really had to venture out, andnow your mom goes.
This is what my dad did too.
My dad, he got into theaffirmative action program and
so we're down in Denver, we'redown in the Five Points area and
what they call Park Hill, andall of a sudden we move out to

(14:19):
the white neighborhood and we'rethe only black folks in that.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
So it sounds like we got kind of similar, similar
backgrounds.
So when I say how, whathappened?
You experienced the same stuff.
What the hell you doing here?
No, no, no, no.
Here's the interesting thing.
To that point, to be honest, Ihad the only whites I remember
interacting with were the nuns,and and, and, and the, and, the
priests, right, and none of themever.

(14:48):
You know, I was just.
You know, they were like.
You know, we don't you, wethink you're a really smart kid
and we expect more of you, right, that's what I got, right, you
know.
So all of a sudden, I go toschool and they're like well,
you know, you're dumb, you'redumb, you stupid, you this, and
that I'm like what, what, what,what, what, when did that happen

(15:08):
?
Right, how did that happen?
So, so, so here I am.
I'm now in the third grade.
I start there and it was if Isaid culture shock, it would be
an understatement.
But I end up in a class and theteacher tells us to read and

(15:29):
I'm Underwood, I'm listening toall them reading.
It gets to me and she saysdon't worry about it.
And I said, what do you meandon't worry about it?
She says, well, what books didyou read.
So I told her which wasdifferent, because whatever the
series they were reading inpublic school, public school, so
you need to go back and readthe books that we read.
So they took me out of classand put me in a special ed class

(15:50):
, which was kindergarten readinglevel, and that class was all
black and predominantly male.
Wow, and they were all darkskinned black males.
So that's the thing too,because we had a couple of light
skinned black males my age whodid not.
That didn't happen to them.
Okay, so not, not.
Here's just your thing.
I went from the top third gradeclass, based upon my testing,

(16:14):
to the bottom.
Yes, okay, so now the work iseasy, it's, they can't read,
they're this and we had it so.
And then the real teacher, mrsBurke, who's a decent person.
She gets sick and thesubstitute comes in and we're
clashing.

(16:34):
Now here's the class, the class.
You know, if I'm an educator,the class makes me rethink who
I'm dealing with.
So here's the clash.
George Washington is the fatherof our nation.
My clash is yes, he isLiterally, because he owned

(16:57):
slaves, raped women that's whythe majority of black people are
named Washington and Jefferson,because of the slaves and then
producing reproducing.
Matter of fact, I saidJefferson even said that the
greatest valuable item you canhave is a fertile black woman.

(17:18):
We're better more than any landThird grader, and I'm saying
these kind of things.
Better more than any land,right, third grader, and I'm
saying these kind of things.
Now, what I got was you carryyour butt home.
I'm gonna call your mother, whoworks in chicago, to come pick
you up because you're a menace.
And no one says well, how doeshe know that?
How does he use words likeprejudice, that he could define

(17:39):
them?
How does he, right, you getwhat I'm saying?
None of that came out.
What came out was he's a menaceto the point that that, even if
the bus was going to leave in30 minutes, they wouldn't let me
on the bus.
They would make my mother comepick me up, drive 45 minutes to
come pick me up.

(17:59):
That's how big of a menace.
They saw me as OK.
That's how big of a menace.
They saw me as Okay, so I'mwith this group.
So in the fifth grade theteacher asked you know everyone,
what do they want to be whenthey grow up?
Now, I did play football and Istarted playing football at
eight and I was pretty good atit.
So I'm in a class fifth graders, and every single they're all

(18:29):
predominantly black men.
Every single, with a couplehispanic guys, no whites they
would.
Every last one of them saidthey want to be an athlete every
last one of them the littleshort, little kid whose father
is 5.53.
You know he's going to be an nbaplayer.
I mean this is like, and I'myou know I he's going to be an
NBA player.
I mean this is like, and I'myou know I'm looking at this
going.
You guys are ridiculous.
This is clowns.
Now, there were two students inthe class who actually played

(18:52):
organized sports at that time.
That even makes it worse.
They didn't play organizedsports.
So two played organized sports.
This guy, alan and myself.
Alan does say he wants to be abaseball player and I said I
want to be a doctor.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
Now are you still in special ed class?

Speaker 1 (19:09):
Yes, I am, yes, I am.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
When I look back at my, I mean we went to that
school.
I told you we went to theneighborhood all the way through
high school.
All of almost all of the blackfolks that went into that school
district.
We were all in special ed class.
Correct, Correct, Backwards.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
And they were getting money.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
Because half of my heritage is Native American.
I was supposed to not be heardand not seen, so I wasn't able.
You know, I knew that GeorgeWashington had taken out his
slave's teeth to make his owndentures.
I knew that, but I didn't know.
You know some of the otherthings.
You know.
I wasn't going to say any ofthat to anybody at all and I was

(19:49):
told to be silent.
And you're being disruptive andnow you're telling folks you
want to be a doctor.
Oh, I can imagine how that wentover.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Oh dude they fell out laughing, of course, even the
teacher.
Even the teacher snickered.
Now, many, you know, I've hadblack teachers, right, this is a
black teacher at the time shesnickers, right, because this is
funny.
What the hell are you talkingabout, dude?
And I'm going.
Why are you laughing at me?
None of you guys play organizedsports.

(20:21):
You're not going to.
Yeah, you, none of you guysplay organized sports.
You don't even play.
Look at you, man, you five.
Come on, man, I've been askedto do this.
I apologize.
Your mother and father, you knowmy father's five seven.
Well, I said how the hell yougoing to be an NBA dude?
Yeah, like, how does that makesense to you?
Right, so I can't be a doctor,but you are going to be like,

(20:42):
like, go for it, come on, butit's not going to happen, right?
Yeah, so, so, um, um, so,that's so, boom, there you are.
So now, sixth grade, my mothertries to put me back in the
Catholic school.
I take a test and the resultsare third grade reading level.
They confused.

(21:03):
They said, wow, your son hasbeen.
Has he gone to school?
Has he gone to school?
And they said, yeah, because,why?
Because he.
We looked at his exit tests andwe looked at his repeating,
trying to get back in entrancetests, and he's still at the
same reading level.
How's that third grade?
How's that possible?

(21:23):
Right?
But he is at a seventh and ahalf grade math level.
And that was because I used tosit around and do math problems.
Wow, right, because you canteach yourself math.
What I would do is get old mathbooks and I would study the
examples in the books and learnhow to solve the problems.

(21:46):
And then you do test questions,look at the answer in the back
and you go on.
I figured it out.
There you go, boom, okay.
So now I'm mentally devastated,of course.
So the sixth grade I'm behavingpoorly.
But then, the same time, andthe kids in the neighborhood,
everybody's calling me a thief,a criminal.

(22:07):
I stole their bike, I'm ahorrible kid, right.
All this is happening, ok.
So now it hits to the point.
They must be true, right?
I'm dumb, I'm stupid, I'm acriminal.
So I began to do things thatwould have ended up in me going
to prison instead of the college, right?
So you know, I was getting high, I was doing stuff, all these

(22:29):
things is what I expected, thatthat I should be doing, all
right, remember.
So now, expectations,academically Right, going from
that to now, we expect you to belowered in law OK, great.
Be lowered in love, okay, great.
And you rise to yourexpectations, of course.
So, so, um, in the summer of theseventh grade, I had a vision,

(22:57):
and the vision said this to mewhat happened to you is criminal
, but what you're doing toyourself is more criminal.
And this is.
And I prayed, I asked God, Iasked God and I'm going to go
back to a story then somethingthat gives it put that in a
little context why I prayed toGod.
So I prayed to God that Godwould help me, but not for me,

(23:23):
but so that others could see meand know what's in them.
Wow, wow, right.
So the purpose is for others,because I, because what I was
missing was for me to seesomeone and go wait a minute.
Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait,wait, wait, wait.
You said this about me, butthat dude looks like me, so you
can do it, I could do it, right,right, that's sort of what

(23:44):
you're missing, right, that'sthe.
That's what I was missing,because I was no longer
connected to that blackcommunity, with the black
doctors and all that sort ofstuff that I saw on a routine,
regular basis.
I'm now in in a war that Idon't know that I'm in, okay,
okay, so why did I turn to that?

(24:05):
So when I first moved to Miller, I developed a stuttering
problem.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
Okay, and I couldn't get a sentence out.
So my grandmother would come.
So my grandmother went tochurch all Sunday with the
church, bible study in thebeginning, right, sunday school,
and then going through churchsetting the first row and all
that stuff.
So my grandmother missed Bible,you know, missed Sunday school.

(24:33):
And she would come over to myhouse and we would watch Oral
Roberts.
And she did that for about sixweeks and she would say you know
, oral Roberts used to stutter,oral Roberts used to stutter,
oral Roberts used to stutter,old robbers used to stutter, old
robbers used to stutter Right,but look at, look at the church,
look at how people revere hiswords, look at, I mean, that's
the stuff she's pointing out,right, right, so, so, so my

(24:56):
grandmother.
So finally, one day she says doyou want to give rid of this
stutter?
And I said, yes, you know whatI didn't say?
Yes, what I said was you know,right, you got to understand.
I mean, yes Was a 45 secondthing, okay, right.
So she says okay, do youbelieve?

(25:17):
She says we're going to pray,so we pray.
And what she said was if youbelieve God, what we're asking
God to do is not take thestuttering from you but to give
you the gift of words oflanguage so that people will
listen.

(25:37):
That when you speak, peoplewill listen, whoa, right, that's
like a prayer and a half.
When you speak, people willlisten, right.
So now, there you go.
Oh, so don't.
Stuttering goes away, so I sawthat that's right.
I saw it didn't go away like thenext day.
But so the next thing, you know, stuttering is gone.
Okay, right.

(25:58):
So now I realize I'm behind.
I ask god for help.
So I I need a process.
So I lay out what I did was Iwent back to when I started Pond
Horner football.
I was eight, they were 10.
They were faster, they were inbetter shape, they were all
these things, and my grandmotherwould get me up at seven in the

(26:19):
morning and we had a workoutand food routine and exercise
routine, a food routine to getme ready, which made me a better
athlete.
Yeah, so now I go okay, Iremember I couldn't tackle.
I practiced tackling.
I remember I couldn't do this,I practiced that.
I remember I couldn't run and Idid this.
So I knew how I had gottenbetter as an athlete.

(26:41):
So I I took that and said, okay, great, academically, there are
things that I'm not good at,bad at things that I'm good at
and things that I'm great at.
So the great has one thing init math.
The good at it had nothing andeverything else was in the bad
at right.

(27:01):
So I said, okay, what I have todo is figure out how to take
what's in the bad to the good,to the good, to the great.
Okay, right.
So let me just figure this out.
So I would ask teachersquestions, and now they know
what I was asking them for and Iwas, you know.
So I put a process togetherthat really allowed me to do
that right reading, writing,arithmetic.

(27:23):
Reading, writing, arithmetic.
Okay, right.
So now I like, leap, like thatsummer, to the eighth grade.
I leap the eighth grade, I leap, right.
So then I get to the ninthgrade.
Now in the ninth grade theythis okay, go back.
So when I am in the um seventhgrade, I take the first test in

(27:50):
seventh grade, math and theycall me in and they accuse me of
cheating.
So I take the test again.
They make me take another test,another test, another test.
Now no one says what's going onhere.
Then all of a sudden I show upand they take me out of my class
to another class, which is theeighth grade class.

(28:11):
Now you think back.
I'm a seventh grader in a classfor the eighth graders.
You know they don't want me inthat class.
Of course not Because I'm aseventh grader.
No one talked to me.
One girl, one person talked tome in that class.
Okay, so now I'm in seventhgrade taking eighth grade math,

(28:31):
and I finished the seventh gradeand I still got to take math.
So what do you think they did?
They?
made me take eighth grade mathagain.
So what do you think theteachers thought when I showed
up to eighth grade math again?
that I failed, that's right.
Oh yeah, yeah, you must havefailed.

(28:52):
And there was a guy who saidthat in class called me out in
class.
Now my classmates are, like youwere in the eighth grade math
last year like they're thinkingsome of this stuff makes sense,
like how was he even right, youknow?
But there's teachers think thatI flunked the eighth grade

(29:14):
right.
I mean it's like crazy.
So they didn't say hey.
So then then when I startedhigh school, they put me in
remedial algebra.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
No way except at the high level.
They put you in the lower.
Oh correct, remedial algebra.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
So I'm in remedial algebra and it was at the class
after lunch.
So I'm coming there and I'mputting my head down or whatever
I'm tired man, you rightputting my head down and stuff.
And uh, mrs ford, black teacher, she said, and they were all
like you know the other teachers, they were trying to figure out
I think he's on drugs, I thinkhe's this and that.

(29:54):
Right, you know, none of that'strue.
So so then she said to me hey,I noticed you don't do your
homework.
Why not?
And I said because it's busywork.
She says what I said it's busywork.
So you give us 30 problems todo.
I can solve the problem, I canfigure this out doing three.

(30:15):
Why should I do the other 27?
When I can go on and practicethe things that I'm trying to be
better at, like reading andthat sort of stuff and writing,
I can work on those othercourses that I need more time to
get done in, and this you know,I'm just doing your busy work.
So she says, okay, but homeworkis half the grade.

(30:37):
And I said, well, that doesn'tmake any sense.
She said because if you get ana on the exam and you get an f
on the homework, then you get aci class.
So how did that make sense toyou?
If the homework?
So what's the purpose ofhomework?
She says practice.
So if I need to practice then Ishouldn't get an a on the test.
If I get an a on the test,obviously I didn't need to
practice.
How does does this make anysense?
So I said, let's make a deal.

(30:59):
If I get 100 on your exam, Iwant full credit for the
homework.
And she says well, I'll do itif you get a 98.
I said nope, because if I get a98, I should have done the
homework.
Now no one's looking at what amI?
15, 14?

Speaker 2 (31:17):
Yeah, 14, man great.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
Yeah.
And no one says, hey, wait aminute, this kid may be onto
something, right?
He may be different than wethink.
Yeah, there may be somethingabout him, right?
No, they don't say that shegoes.
Okay, cool.
So I take the test and I finishbefore anyone else I got

(31:39):
finished it.
So then I walk up to her andshe says are you sure you're
going to turn to?
Said I said, wait one second.
As I looked through, I said letme make sure that I answered
every question, because I don'twant to not answer a question
and then miss that one.
And then, right, because Ididn't answer it.
So I go through, okay, all theanswers, they all answered.
So I give it to her and she sitsthere and she grades it and she
jumps up out of class andleaves, has another teacher come

(32:01):
in to watch the class andeverybody's like, ooh, so she go
.
What'd you do?
You, correct, correct, you introuble, right, correct, correct
.
You remember those days, right,ooh, you in trouble.
So so what she does?
She goes down to the school andwas like what the hell, how was

(32:22):
he in my class?
This dude finished this test in15 minutes.
He didn't miss any.
This was like.
He just, you know like, we wokehim up and said, hey, take the
sat, and he got a, you know a 15, 50, like you know, like this
there's something wrong.
So so they wouldn't get me outof her class, but what we did

(32:43):
was special work so that I couldcorrect so I can get through
the whole algebra thing.
And I never did the homework, Ijust kept getting hundreds on
the exams and went on my merryway and I was taking different
tests than everyone else.
And then you know geometry thenext year, and all that right,
and then I end up, um applyingto one college.
So I was a football athlete, um, um had some awards and stuff

(33:09):
and I wrestled mediocre wrestlerbut I was.
But I was captain because thecalisthenics, you know, I ran.
I used to do a thousand push-ups, thousands instead of let's do
all these crazy exerciseroutines with which the the when
the coach wanted to punish thewrestling team, he would turn it
over to work out over to me andhe would leave.

(33:30):
He would say peace out, I'mgonna leave you with willie,
peace out, right.
And we'd be running the stairs.
Okay, it's, there's something.
And you're like dude.
You know they would say thisdude is crazy, right, he's like
I'm like, I'm like, yeah, we'vegot to run up and down 10 times,
let's see, we're all right, I'mrunning and I'm leading the
pack and it was so was behind.

(33:51):
I would run down to the lastperson.
Push that person back up, right?
I mean, it's like that kind ofathletic, you know, kind of work
ethic that I put to it andthat's the same workout that I
put in academia.
So I get to apply to onecollege and that's morehouse, um
, because that's where I wasgoing, because king went there
and the motto was be someone, bea morehouse man.

(34:12):
I want to be someone, so I wentto morehouse.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
It was a great experience, um from indiana, I
went down to georgia and oh mywhich was something okay, which
I really like school.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
You were at the white school.
Yeah, correct, correct, which Ilearned which I learned that
there was a finite area that Ineeded to stay in if I wanted to
make it home a lot.
All right, you know.
So there you go.
So we ended up Morehouse.
Then I went to medical school,suny Upstate Syracuse.

(34:47):
You know which was quite anexperience, you know.
You walk in the bathroom at thetop.
You know big, bold letters andon the chalkboard this was like
all over is it too late to sendthese ends back to africa, or
should we just kill them all?
I mean, that's what, oh, that's.
You know, you can imagine,right, you know the hostility,

(35:09):
this stuff.
And and then I created a thing,what I call the cat in kick ass
and take names.
You know, I struggled at firstbecause of the environment and
because of a whole lot of otherstuff, and then, when I just
said, you know what, it's timeto kick ass and take names, and
then, um, and that's sort ofwhat we did, I had a crew with
me going to Morehouse too and wejust basically just said we're

(35:33):
going to dominate this.
And then that's sort of whathappened, right, that's how I
got honors and stuff.
Matter of fact, there's aplaque on my picture on the wall
outstanding young alumnusbecause once that process
started and I was rolling again,it's going back to what I
learned in the at eight playingfootball, what I learned in

(35:54):
restructuring my academicprocess.
I just applied that to now tomedical school.
It's the same thing.
I'd applied it in college too tobe able to, because I had to
work my way through college 35,you know, 30 to 35 hours a week,
you know, trying to do this soI can afford to go to school
Right.
So so there I'm in get througha match in urology which was

(36:17):
very competitive, got a master's.
Also got a master's in anatomycell biology while I was there
and then did residency, whichbrought on this whole different
set of issues, challenges.
Where did you do residency?

Speaker 2 (36:32):
at the University of Connecticut for urology two
years of general surgery, allkinds of things bouncing around
the.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
University of Connecticut for urology.
Two years of general surgery.
Yeah yeah, two years of generalsurgery Did four years of
urological surgery and we werethe first Black surgical
residents that were there.
Of course, right, which was youknow which.
Again, you know which wasbrought on all kinds of stuff,
you know, just like in medicalschool, I had Tom Blocker in
college who mentored me andhelped me, taught me a lot.

(37:01):
I had Greg Threat in medicalschool and I get a guy, lou
Brown, who was the thoracicsurgeon and you know that's the
first time I'd ever heard theterm a rabbi and he was like my
rabbi.
Lou Brown was a powerful,amazing guy and he took to me.
He now says he did it becauseof my work, ethic and everything
, which is what it was, what Iknew.

(37:23):
That's what I had to do to beconsidered a part of the team.
I had to lead the team, right,you know, you just can't be a
member of the team to beconsidered a part of the team,
team to be considered a part ofthe team.
So robertson johnson, clinicalscholar as a fifth urologist to
do that, which is prettycompetitive fellowship in health

(37:44):
services, research, and then Ibuilt an academic career, had
millions of dollars in grants,published in top journals, did a
lot of cool stuff, and then Ileft that uh in.
Now, in this process, I'vealways considered myself a
clinician scientist.
I mean doing research and thenscientific endeavors as a

(38:07):
clinician entrepreneur, I havepatents in New York.
I mean patents in the US andJapan Prostate cancer biomarker.
We created a startup companyaround that and now work with
other companies and socialchange agent, and that's really
about how we make the systemwork better.
How do we do things?

(38:28):
That led to me doing a couple ofcool things that just really
want to highlight.
One was we created the CannonAssociation society was now the
resident social society ofamerican college of surgeons,
and the first thing we did wascreate the family leave act.
So for so the family was thisso if you were a female surgical
resident and if you had a babyand you took off four weeks and

(38:53):
a day, you had to repeat yourwhole year of residency.
Oh my gosh, yes, ridiculous.
And I learned that from a guyand his wife that I'd gone to
medical school with and theywere MD PhDs and we were talking
.
They mentioned that.
So then we were looking forsomething to take on because we
had just started and I suggestedthat and we took it on and we

(39:14):
were able to get the surgeons,the American College of Surgeons
, to back it.
But the interesting thing isthat once they adopted it it
went out across all the surgicalresidencies urology, obgyn,
thoracic surgery, everyone Okay.
And we created it was calledthe family leave because they
said, okay, great Men should beable to have paternity leave,

(39:35):
they should be able to take offas a family member, sick, you
know, not just around having ababy but around the whole
process.
And that was successful and thatwas important, I mean.
I think I mean it has evolvedinto this thing on ACGME, has it
?
That accredits residencies.
I mean this is, you know, great.
So then, what else you know wecreated?

(40:02):
What else you know we created?
Um, when covet hit, we had andthere's a whole lot of stuff in
the middle.
I can kind of be here all daytalking about everything.
So, you know, from doing thefirst prostatectomy in nigeria
to getting a, an uh, uh, what isit called?
A blessing from the pope, rightnot to you know, to the stuff I
did in the Vatican, which Ican't tell anyone.
I mean it's like it's crazy.

(40:23):
My life has been amazing.
So we, so we, we, covid hit.
I get a phone call from 20, itwas 20, a bunch of ministers on
the phone, one other doctor, andthey said, hey, hey, can you
get on call with us?
And we were, okay, cool, andthis is when covid first started
.
And, to be honest, I didn'teven understand the implications

(40:44):
of covid at the time.
You know, my, my ex-wife said,hey, did you go grocery shopping
?
And I said, oh, yeah, you knowwhatever.
Because you know, I don't, Idon, you know.
I was like, what are youtalking about?
She goes we're going to die.
And I'm like, oh yeah, whatever.
And I go to the grocery storeand there's nothing.

(41:07):
So people, so the call.
You know we're on the phonewith the county exec and the
health county, healthcommissioner and the public
service person, social serviceperson from the county, and the
ministers all told their storiesand it was someone got sick on
Thursday and they were dead byTuesday and this was Tuesday
morning that we're on this call.
So no one, you know the countyexec doesn't have a plan.

(41:31):
No one has a plan, everybody's.
We don't know we're going to dothis any other.
So we get off the phone withthem and I said, listen, I
promise that we don't know we'regoing to do this any other.
So we get off the phone withthem and I said, listen, I
promise that we don't have aplan.
And so let's create a planagain.
You want to be a football player?
You can't run, you can't catch,you can't tackle.
Plan right, you want it.

(41:52):
You can't read, you want toread.
Plan right, you're in collegewith a bunch of kids who were
prepared to be there.
You want to catch them.
Plan, you're in medical school.
They don't want you here.
You want to get through Plan.
You're in residency and theydon't want you here, and some do
, some don't.
But you want to be a greatdoctor, plan, right, boom, there

(42:13):
you go.
We need a plan.
Okay.
So I said let's write a plan,let's have it done by the end of
the day, and they're like whatI said.
Now here's the plan.
We're going to go from society,our area, to to the hospital.
So what does that look like?
Testing, right, if someone'ssick but not someone gets
diagnosed with it, but they'renot sick, how do we?

(42:35):
How do we protect their family?
How do we social isolate?
How do we give them theresources that they need, all
these things?
We thought of it like theirchildren being able to have
access to the things they needfor school, like Wi-Fi and stuff
like that.
I mean, all this was laid out.
It took us three days to do it,and then they said what do we
do?
No-transcript, look at it andfigure out what you can do.

(43:27):
So companies who had people athome, they were paying.
They said, hey, you need peopleto call people to see how
they're doing.
We'll give you that.
We got to write.
You know all this stuff.
Mortality rate in the blackcommunity crashed like this,
saving lives.

(43:48):
Those people never know who weare, right, they never know what
happened.
Right, the government, sincethey were looking for plans,
gave us four million dollars toimplement the plan I mean it was
.
It was like you know, we boomto the point that the plan was
in the second wave of COVID.
It was adopted by the entirecounty and the county took it

(44:09):
over.
So so those are.
When I look back and say well,what are you proud of?
Yeah, being a doctor.
Yeah, I'm glad that I've beenable to provide great prostate
cancer care, great neurologiccare.
But when I look at my career inlife, it's helping people who
would never know my name.
Yeah, never know I existed.

(44:29):
Right, I mean, that's what thisis about, because the woman who
would see me as a kid walkingdown the street doing something
stupid, who picked up the phoneand called my grandmother, right
, that person is partiallyresponsible for the lives that I
say Right, yeah, a few teachersthat said you have talent.

(44:51):
Responsible, the people that Inamed Tom Blockerer, greg Three,
lou Brown.
Responsible Mother, grandmother, aunts, responsible Cousins
we're all responsible for helpshaping the God that's been able
to do the stuff that I've done.

(45:12):
Spokesperson for NCI.
Know, I mean this is like crazy.
I look back and I laugh andlike who is that guy and how did
I get to do that?

Speaker 2 (45:23):
yeah, oh my gosh.
Thank you for sharing all this,because it's so.
You know, you think, like yousaid, the people that are
responsible.
And when I think about, like,like the identity that you were
able to create amidst all thestruggles, I mean I know you
have a quote from FrederickDouglass, who you know was a man

(45:44):
who taught himself how to read.
You know, because the lady whowas teaching him how to read,
the husband, said if you teachthat boy to read, he'll never be
a slave.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
You can't be a slave.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
And so you kind of took on that whole persona of
I'm going to figure out how tomake this work despite the
obstacles against me.
I mean, there have been someamazing people in your life that
probably helped you create thatidentity that I can tell the
people that you talked aboutthat you have reverence for, but

(46:19):
what, intrinsically in yourmind, you know, when those
people are trying to shut youdown, people are stopping you,
that no, god has somethinggreater for me, or I have.
You know, you and your, yourgrandma, you pray and you stop
stuttering and kind of just walkme through this identity stages
.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
So yeah, I mean it's it mean it's interesting, I
don't understand it Right.
I mean, I do know my motherworked for Conroe and Railroad.
She was the first you knowblack person in her area that
they hired.
And she was in that first andonly for a very long time.
And my mother did things toshow me the world.

(46:57):
So, for example, when we hadput money on the house and we
were trying to get in the houseand I'd already started school
at Marquette Elementary in thatarea, which was hard as hell to
get me there and to pick me upevery day, right.
So so because we were alwaysclosing any minute.
So then, and we were living ina roach infested place, right At

(47:17):
the time, I mean, and we wereliving in a roach infested place
, right at the time I mean, youknow she was renting out, so we
wanted to get out of thathellhole which got condemned
after we moved out.
But that's a side story.
So my mother, the woman, callsJones Williams.
So she calls and she says Iwant to back out the deal.
My mother understands, shewants to get out of the deal.

(47:38):
So my mother says watch thisson.
So she says you know what I'mso excited the fact that you
called me.
Of course I will let you offthis deal.
The course is give me theearnest money back.
And the woman's like well, whyshe goes?
You know, because too many ofmy friends are moving in that
area.
And then she started making uppeople, wow, buying houses there

(48:03):
, so and so, so and so lookingat the house over here, so, and
I'm thinking, and my mother saidshe goes, okay, okay, know,
we'll have the thing, you'll getme the check back and we're all
good.
Mother gets off the phone andshe says watch this.
And then she said don't gonowhere, son, watch this.

(48:25):
That phone started ringing,ringing, ringing, ringing.
Well, I read that Mom says look, I think the house cost is too
expensive, right?
So you ask for out.
You're out At the price youposted is not a price I'm
willing to pay, especially sinceall those black folks are going

(48:47):
to be moving in thatneighborhood too.
And my mother, that call costher thousands of dollars.
Okay, and so I'm in the secondgrade.
I said mommy, look, if theydon't sell their homes, then we
can't live there because wecan't build houses.
My mother said, exactly, see,that's thinking.
They're not rational.
You can't pick up the phone andcall her neighbors and say, hey

(49:10):
, you selling your house to anigger, sorry, to a Negro, right
.
And they go no, okay, right,there's all kinds of stuff they
could have done, but they were.
But their emotions had driventhem into foolishness, into
selling a home less than itsvalue, to move in another

(49:32):
neighborhood that they're raisedthe prices for another
neighborhood, that they'reraised the prices for, that
they're paying more for andeverybody making money off their
right emotional racism.
Wow.
So she taught me that, right,boom, okay, right, she worked.
So since she got paid less thanmen, she had to work more

(49:56):
overtime to make what they made.
Yeah, so she worked 16 hourdays month, five days a week and
eight hour days in herso-called off day.
I was a resident before I hadthanksgiving or christmas dinner
with her because she wasworking, because she got double

(50:18):
time and a half for working onholidays Wow.
So you put that in the backdrop, right?
So of course I can go tocollege and work 35 hours a week
.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
Never complain.
No, that's right, because I sawit.

Speaker 1 (50:32):
Right, I'm like this is my education.
You want me to mop floors, youwant me to work security.
You want me to my floors, youwant me to work security.
Whatever, that's what I gottado.
I ain't complaining to nobody,right?
I took my daughter to tomorehouse campus and up on the
street they had they have aplace.
We got the fast foods likemcdonald's, burger king, all
that stuff, right.
And and I said, and I stoodacross the street and I said I

(50:56):
want you to look at these places, sweetheart.
Now she was like four, somefour and a half, and I said I
need you to understand that whenyour father came here for
school, he didn't have any moneyand he would go there and beg
for food.
I need you to understand that.

(51:16):
Yeah, right, look at them.
Look at it and envision me thisdude with all I got right now,
used to beg them for food when Iwas hungry because I had
nothing.
I was working my way throughschool and I didn't have any
extra Tuition.

(51:37):
First food, second, right, yousee, see, that's.
You know where that came from.
Is just grandmother right?
Yeah, oh, my God, you read.
My grandmother said make meread the King James Version
Bible.
King James Version.
I'm like granny, why got to?
She says, baby, if you can readthis, make me read the King
James Version Bible.
King James Version.
I'm like granny.

(51:57):
She says, baby, if you can readthis, you can read anything.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
You can read anything , so.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
I know you know how to read, because you can read
this.
So I need you to not only readit, but I need you to explain it
to me.
After church, when I didn'twant to sit on the first row
with her anymore, I went to siton the first row with her
anymore.
I went to sit in the balconywith the kids, other young
people.
They said you can do that, butafter church you have to give a

(52:25):
five minute talk on what theminister talked about.
So that meant that he read ascripture.
I read stuff before it andafterwards and I put it together
.
You got to explain what itmeans for you and in current day
society.
Right, okay, so you think aboutthat.
So so I'm, I'm standing infront of my family, cause you,
you know, you know how it is,man, you screw up in front of

(52:46):
your family.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
They nice about it, not even a little bit Right,
ain't nice about it.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
Okay, this is real.
And my grandmother, you ain'tgonna, you ain't gonna, you
ain't gonna miss some box, somescripture stuff that ain't gonna
work out well for you.
Yeah, okay, right, so.
So here it is right.
So now people say, man, how doyou give these talks all over
the world, how you do all thisstuff?
Of course I can't, because whenI was 12 I had to do it.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
I had to talk about the bible, yeah right, I had to
talk about the bible.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
Well, how do you understand these scriptures and
stuff?
How do you wait?
How you give a talk?
And I had to talk about theBible.
Correct, I had to talk aboutthe Bible.
Well, how do you understandthese scriptures and stuff?
How do you give a talk and youweave all these things together?
Because I was taught to do thatas a child.
Wow, you weave, and I wouldtell people oh no, you know.
So when I was teaching myself,I said I said theology, right.

(53:38):
History, yeah, right, geography,all those things, they all the
same.
Right, they all fit together.
So if you're reading somethingover here like where is that on
the map?
Who are those people?
What's their history?
Right, literature ties intothat, right, how does that fit

(54:00):
into the?
What I'm reading today, right,dante inferno is a, is a book,
but it's a historical context toit, the right?
So then you start developingthose kind of skills medicine,
medicine, the history ofmedicine, how we discovered this
, how we do that.
Now you say, oh, so then, as ascientist, that's what

(54:22):
scientists do.
Here's a problem how do wesolve it?
What do we need to know to beable to solve it?
That's been my life.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
Wow, I do have a question for you as I think
through this and I think aboutBlack men in general, and one of
the things that you haven'treally talked about is a dad or
male figures in your life, andyou talked a lot about the women
in your life and I know you'rea great dad.
I know that that has beensomething super important to you

(54:54):
.
How did that translate from youknow from your childhood to now
?
I have to be step in and whatyour examples and the people
around that allowed you tobecome the man that you are
today?
Oh, did you freeze on me?
Thank you, hello, hello.

(56:04):
Can you hear me now?

Speaker 1 (56:07):
hello yeah, yeah, I got dropped yeah, okay all right
, all right.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
So so you're asking me about the male figures in my
life yeah, the male figures, andthen how to become the man that
you become.
You know, because you haven'ttalked about a lot of influence
there, but it was important toyou to make sure that you didn't
that allow that legacy tocontinue without being because
you took your daughter.
I mean, you, you talk about howyou were a dad, but you didn't

(56:34):
talk about that other portion ofyour life, and so yeah, yeah, I
mean.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
So you know, my wife and I we were together and we
weren't together, and I had anoption to stay in this area,
which I did in Buffalo.
The only reason I'm here inBuffalo is because she's here
and I've created a work balancething where it allows me to be
here with her.

(57:01):
So so I did have men in my life.
My grandfather was an amazingman, although he did not raise
my mother, okay, but he was anamazing man.
He put a lot in my life toteach me that my what, my
obligation to society is right.
So he was great with that,although he ran a gambling joint

(57:22):
out of his place.
So bootleg liquor, you know,right, he did a lot of hustling
stuff, but that's what he coulddo.
And if I, you know, know thehistory of where he came from,
that's about all.
Even though he was in theservice, he didn't get the gi
bill benefits.
And my uncle, who was marriedto my joyce, you know he was a
military secret service guy.

(57:42):
You know he taught a lot aboutstanding straight up, you don't
pimp, you don't do those things.
You're a man, right, you know.
And my father though he didn'traise me, uh, was was a
scientifically math guy.
Okay, when my mother sent me tostay with him because I was
going to kill a cat, I didn'tget it, that but.

(58:03):
But, um, she sent me to staywith him.
He would.
He had physics books, geometrybooks and all this stuff and he
would say, open, grab one, I'llgrab one.
He opened it, I opened it towherever and he could look at
the chapter and then he could goto his chalkboard and teach it
to me, like that kind of stuff,right, good, I'm glad I saw that
, because I realized that thatwas in me if it was in him.

(58:25):
So so, but also realize howdevastating it is for people to
grow up without a father,because I saw people who had
fathers and I wish that I hadsomeone to teach me how to catch
.
I wish I had someone to justtalk to me about how to think

(58:45):
through things as a man.
Right, how to you know allthese things?
Now, the women in my life didwhat they could do.
They said, hey, great, you know.
Now you drive.
You're going to pull up to themall.
You're going to open up thedoor, let all of us out.
You're going to open up thedoor, let all of us out.
You're going to go, park yourcar.
You're going to come back andthen open up the second door to
let us in the mall.
Okay, right, all the packagesyou carry, I mean stuff like

(59:08):
that.
Of course, you know, right, youknow you provider, you're this.
But there's something to nothaving a male in your life and
it impacts men and women, right?
So for me me, I wanted to be apart of that and I also

(59:29):
understood this part of myeducation was about I can't
teach what I don't know.
So for my child to be able tobe a broad thinker and stuff
like that, that I need to be abroad thinker.
For them to be a reader, then Ineed to be a reader.
If I'm sitting around, wedidn't have video games when I
grew up, but if I'm sittingaround watching TV and playing
video games, then they will sitaround and watch TV and play

(59:49):
video games.
So if I'm smoking weed, theywill smoke weed.
If I'm a smoker smoker, if Iexercise, they will exercise.
Right, who I am becomes whothey are de facto.
They got two choices theyeither become, assimilate right
into that environment was mostpeople do or say I hate you, I

(01:00:11):
hate that environment and runfrom it, right?
So, so, so, that's the case.
So now we have now my secondwife, you know, through merger
and acquisition.
I have three daughters, one's intheir twenties, 27,.
Other one's 21.
And my daughter just turned 17a couple of days ago.
So dealing with that is at awhole nother level, and

(01:00:36):
especially now in this society,because of course, there's a lot
of things about me they don'tunderstand, right, because their
world is very different than myworld.
So when I say things that Iknow that's not really true, but
we're learning, that isdefinitely true, okay.
So so you know, although, andthey're, and they're great
students and they excel and, andum, um, my, my biological

(01:01:01):
daughter's in the history andmath, it's like I'm in into
history and math, it's like I'minto history and math.
That's why, you see, we, thepeople on one side, and
Frederick Douglass a quote fromFrederick Douglass on the other,
right?
So, of course, you know,imagine you in a house like that
, with books everywhere, and yougo out the door and you got to
see the Constitution.
That says a lot about herenvironment.

(01:01:21):
So, and her mom's as a phd, andshe's a, you know, a reader as
as well.
So she, of course she reads andand everything but.
But but that's critical, so wedon't have to have.
Just because we don't havesomething in our lives, that
doesn't mean that we have torepeat their failures.
You know, my father and I didn'thave a relationship until you

(01:01:45):
know, later on in his life, andyou know it's funny, we and I'll
tell you this.
So my father was in Vietnam.
He got exposed, you know, agentOrange and stuff like that.
So he ended up having fourcancers.
So he had prostate cancer,expert prostate cancer expert.

(01:02:06):
Prostate cancer, kidney cancer,bladder cancer and throat
cancer.
Don't think I'm not an expert,so, okay, right.
So so I mean, you think aboutthat like that's interesting
matter of fact, when he got hiskidney surgery, one of my
previous fellows operated on himand he couldn't understand why
no one would touch him where hewas without talking to me.

(01:02:27):
They told him.
They said, dude, we got to talkto your son, you don't know
your son.
Like you don't know your son, Imean, they didn't know, I
didn't know him.
But they were saying he, youknow, I don't know what you see,
but if we mess up with you, wegot to deal with him and they're
calling me up.
You know, that's how I found outhe had these things, so that's

(01:02:51):
unfortunate, but what I did dois say, well, wait a minute, how
do you be a father?
Then?
You need to read stuff, youneed to grow stuff.
You need to ask yourself, right, right, you know, how do I
contribute to this person's life?
How do I bring people aroundthem that can benefit them?
Right, you know, tiger woodsfather didn't have to be an
expert golfer, but he got golfcoaches yeah exactly right, so.

(01:03:14):
So if you can't read, then youget somebody to help them, right
, but the meantime you got tohelp you too.
Yeah, right, if you don'tunderstand money and you want
your child.
So my daughter understandsmoney, our daughters understand
money, right, not just having it, but how it works, how it works

(01:03:37):
Right.
So so my daughter wanted to be.
So my daughter is daughter'ssmart, right, she's smart at the
time, she's you know.
So she goes.
My, my, my mother is really,really frugal.
My father is not as frugal.
So what I'm going to do, I needglasses.
So my mother's going to make meget the medicaid glasses, the
free one.
But my father, I can make, talkhim to these glasses I want.

(01:03:59):
So I want daddy to come get,pick me, go get the glasses.
So we go, we get the thing, theglasses.
So then I said, well, pick outthe glasses you want.
So she goes well, I know whichones I want, daddy, they're in
the case.
I said oh, they're in the case.
Huh, so that means they must beglasses out of the case.

(01:04:23):
So he pulls them out of thecase and, um, these are some
gucci glasses and they're 450dollars.
Now she's in the fourth grade,correct?
Fourth grade, or whatever.
I said that's interesting.
So now I can't say to her thatI can't afford them, because
that's not true, right?
She's like dude, you can, youknow.
So my mother could say that,but I can't say that.
So I said okay, great, tell youwhat I'm gonna do, spirit, why
don't you start over there inthe free glasses?

(01:04:45):
And I think this is way toomuch.
I said but if you're willing totry on every pair in this
entire place, and if I find onethat I think looks better on you
than them, you agree to getthose.
So then the guy's sitting thereand I said well, how many are

(01:05:07):
here?
He said about 1600 or so.
I said you better get going.
I love it, 1600.
So she does it to the pointthat people are done with their
appointments and they're notleaving because everybody's
watching this.
Right, you know, I'm going up.
Then the guy is there puttingthem back and she's taking them

(01:05:28):
out.
She's trying to do this as fastas possible.
We narrowed down to 10.
We narrowed down to two.
One of the two is Gucci glassesand one is another pair.
I said, fine, I'll give you theGucci glasses.
Okay.
The guy said you want insurance.
I said, fine, I'll give you theGucci glasses, okay.
The guy said you want insurance.
I said, oh no, they break.
They break.
If you want them, you take careof them.

(01:05:50):
We ain't getting no insurance,we ain't getting nothing.
Okay, you want them, you bettertake care of them, right, end
of story.
So we get them.
So then the next day beforeschool I said sweetheart, how
much those glasses cost?
She said 450 plus tax.
And she's saying all that.

(01:06:11):
I said, no, baby, that was theprice.
She goes.
Well, what's the difference?
So let me explain thedifference.
I said if I take that samehundred four hundred fifty
dollars and I put it in the inthe right, the s&p 500, that
gets 10.26 percent a year.
I said but let's make it 10percent, right, which means it's
gonna double right every eightand a half years.

(01:06:31):
But we're gonna make it simpleit's gonna double every 10 years
, boom, boom, boom, boom.
By the time you get to 65.
And I'm showing them we'rewalking through each step right
by the.
By the time I was 65, theseglasses cost $32,000.
She goes.
Well, you think that way, daddy.
A pencil costs $100.
I said it does, it does.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
I said you need to understand, sweetheart, you need
to understand the differencebetween price and cost.
I said so.
She said, but I need a glass.
I said, yes, you did, but youdidn't need those.
But I need a glass.
I said, yes, you did, but youdidn't need those.
Right, the free glasses workthe same as a $450 glasses.
What you wanted was Gucciglasses.
Yeah, you want it to lookbetter, you want it to walk

(01:07:12):
around in Gucci glasses.
I'm fine, cause I can't affordit.
But I'm telling you what youpay for it is $32,000.
So I need you to understandthat.
So you better treat them likethey're $32,000.
You better understand what yougave up, not just for you but

(01:07:32):
for my grandchildren, right,because my investments, your
investments, become theirinvestments.
This is generational money.
Money is generational.
It ain't about you, right?
Yeah, and I and that.
That goes into what I wouldtell us.
We are what I pour into.
You ain't about you.
I love you, I care about you, Iwant you to be your best you,

(01:07:56):
but I'm doing it for mygrandchildren,
great--grandchildren,great-great-grandchildren,
everybody else going forward,because that's how I became who
I am and this is how you becomewho you're going to become, and
they become the unborn people.
Who benefits from what we dotoday?

(01:08:17):
Future is held by those whoprepare for it today, right,
today, right, so that'sparenting to me.
Future is held by those whoprepare for it today, today,
right, so that's heralding to me, right?
Hey, let me show you.
Let me show you this we were in, we were in Disney and she
wanted to stand in line.
She must have been since, like,yeah, since 2000.

(01:08:39):
Yeah, so 14, so she's six,right, so we're in disney and uh
, it was doing the frozen andthey had the actresses and stuff
and she wanted to get theirsignatures and she was getting
everybody's signature.
I'm cool with that.
90, some degrees outside.
It's a three and a half hourwait.
I said great, you want to waithere?

(01:09:02):
I said, let's talk aboutopportunity costs.
Yeah, we're gonna lose fourhours in line.
You can do all this other stuff.
Yeah, you want to do it, we'regonna do it.
I said, but you gotta stand inline.
Now I know you're gonna seeparents that will be standing in
line for their kids, that'sthem.
But if you want this, thenyou're gonna have to give it all
up and you stand in this hotass, son, with your father and

(01:09:25):
you do this and I will standwith you.
Okay, great, totally do that,right.
Boom, boom, boom.
She gets up front.
That's the only photo I took.
I took a picture because I'mlike I've been standing this hot
ass, son, I'm getting thisphoto too.
So there we go.
So we get the photo, and, and.
But in that line she learnedterms, yeah, like opportunity

(01:09:47):
costs, right, and we're talkingabout economics, value, but
we're also talking about makingdecisions and what those
decisions mean.
So now, when we're done andshe's running again on this ride
, that ride, I'm like you couldhave done all of this Because
you got early admissions intothe park.

(01:10:08):
You spent the first beginningof the park where people were
just getting in.
Oh, you could have done severalrides without no one in line,
but you chose to get signaturesof some actors pretending to be
fake people.

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
Yes, right.

Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
I'm okay with that, right, all the photos are turned
into a yearbook Memories.
I mean, we all land on Disney,but understand what it costs,
understand what it costs.
I took her, we went to likeit's a campground or whatever,
and we're there at thecampground and people are there

(01:10:51):
and most of those people come intheir trailer homes right,
their trailers and stuff right.
So we're hanging out and peopleare talking, asking questions
and stuff, and I'm just shootingthis crap with them having a
good time and she's talking totheir kids and stuff.
So so, um, she's like well, howcome you'd ever tell anyone
you're a doctor, right?

(01:11:14):
Because you say I say you saywhy are you here?
well, I'm in town, you know, I'min health care, you know I get
these vague answers I saidsweetheart, because what I
learned when you're dealing withcertain people, it makes them
uncomfortable when they realizeyour status compared to their
status.
And I'm enjoying theconversation, I don't want to
make it uncomfortable.
So she says I don't think so,daddy.

(01:11:34):
So then the next conversationwe did, I said well, I'm a
doctor and we're staying at thisfreaking high-end marriott over
here.
And then she saw how they, howthe whole thing changed right,
and I said well, let me show youwhere they're staying.
So I took her over there and Isaid see the difference?

(01:11:54):
I said you flew down here infirst class in the front of the
plane.
They drove here days to get toget to do this.
You got here in hours, they gothere in days.
I said so I need you tounderstand.
So I'm not devaluing that, I'mjust letting you know you
understand that people don'thave what you have exactly and

(01:12:15):
you don't stand that.
But you eat.
But but guess what?
You don't have it eitherbecause you didn't do it correct
.
This is my, you standing on myshoulders and guess what?
You don't have it eitherbecause you didn't do it Correct
.
This is my.
You stayed on my shoulders andguess what?
I didn't have it either and I'mglad I can give it to you.
So she asked my sister.
This is what she asked mysister.
She says Auntie Vette, when isthe first time you came to

(01:12:38):
Disneyland?
Did you go to Disneyland?
She goes this is my first time.
This is my first time you cameto Disneyland.
Did you go to Disneyland?

Speaker 2 (01:12:43):
She goes.
It's my first time.
It's my first time I didn't sayI hadn't done it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:46):
Correct, she goes first time.
So then I said, what about youDad?
I said, well, you know I was aresident, she goes.
Well, didn't you guys go onvacations as kids?
And we were like, no, she waslike, why not?
I said we didn't have any money.
What are you talking about?
You've been to China.
You travel around the world.

(01:13:07):
How do you think you do that?
How does that happen?
That happens from this kidblinding when everybody's
telling him he's stupid and hecan't achieve.
That's how you got here, china.
What are you talking about?
Five-year-old running on thegreat wall of china because your
father's giving a talk in china.

(01:13:27):
He takes you and your mama.
Would you come on, man, right?
Wow?
So I started this by saying Iain't nothing special, because
it's not about me.
It's about saying this is ourability and we have to tap into
that.
We have to have greaterexpectations for ourselves and

(01:13:49):
our community and we can'texpect anyone else to ever solve
our problems for us.
Yeah, because it's never goingto happen.
It hasn't happened in 400 yearsof America and it won't happen
in the next 400 either.

Speaker 2 (01:14:05):
No, absolutely Well, cool, well, dr.
Thank you so much.
I mean, I hope we get to haveanother show.
I look forward to it so much Igot a couple of pages of notes
here.
Just I can't believe I fullybelieve that you've done all of

(01:14:25):
this.
I just can't believe I got thehonor to be able to talk to you
about it and pull it out of youto just have this conversation.
I hope you're willing to haveme call you back and do some
more, because this is phenomenaland fantastic.
The things just thank you for Imean the things that we got to
talk about, I think, are exactlywhat our younger folks need to

(01:14:48):
hear.
I think it's that work ethicthat you talked about.
It's that willingness to gobeyond.
It's that willingness to sayI'm going to do this, regardless
whether you tell me I can or Ican't.
It's what has changed us to beable to become what we need to
become, so that we can do.
And that's where I really loveyour fact that we can do for
others and help others becomewho they need to be.

(01:15:09):
So thank you again for doing.
Do you have any one like twolast closing thoughts before
yeah, no, I want to thank youfor doing this.

Speaker 1 (01:15:17):
I mean, I think this is awesome.
I appreciate the opportunity toshare my story, but the main
thing is that the fact thatyou've taken this on, that
you're sharing people's stories,that you want people to know,
that people are out there whoare doing the things that we do,
so that the history of like AGGaston in Alabama built a $150
million enterprise in Jim Crow,alabama, right, so that we don't

(01:15:40):
let those things die, becausethose are our inspirations and
our motivations, because if theycan do it, then we can do it.
So, no, thank you, I appreciatethis.

Speaker 2 (01:15:51):
Absolutely, and so this is their first episode that
you've watched.
Go ahead and subscribe, hit thenotification bell.
We have many more like this foryou to be able to do, and I
want you not to forget that you,my friend, are God's greatest
gift.
He loves you, if you allow himto, and I cannot wait to talk to
you guys on the next one.
You guys have an amazing,awesome day.
Dr Underwood will be back.
I promise you that We'll talkto you guys soon.

(01:16:12):
Bye, bye, bye, bye.

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