September 11, 2025 • 62 mins
What makes someone walk away from their dream job? For Michael Butler, it was a simple question from his three-year-old daughter: "Daddy, are you leaving again?"
Michael's journey began on baseball fields in North St. Louis, where as a seven-year-old he witnessed opponents cheating to win a game. When his father told him "life isn't fair," young Michael made a profound decision – he would dedicate himself to creating more fairness in the world. This childhood moment sparked a passion for public service that would eventually lead him to make history as the first African-American elected Recorder of Deeds in Missouri.
The path wasn't straightforward. From earning a full scholarship to Alabama A&M University to an unfulfilling corporate career at Walmart, Michael's trajectory changed dramatically after a mentor advised him to "quit now" and pursue his true purpose. Within three years of that conversation, he'd been elected to the Missouri House of Representatives at just 26 years old. His meteoric rise continued when fellow legislators elected him Democratic Caucus Chair at 30.
Yet at the height of his political success, Michael faced a crucial realization – his dream job kept him away from his growing family. This prompted his decision to run for a local position that would allow him to serve his community while being present for his children. Today, he's transformed the Recorder's office into the highest-rated government office in Missouri through innovation, technology, and exceptional customer service.
Michael's philosophy that "the measure of a man is how he treats those he doesn't need" shapes his approach to leadership and service. His story challenges us to reconsider our definitions of success and impact. What sacrifices are we making for career advancement? How might our greatest purpose be found closer to home than we imagined?
Listen to this powerful conversation about purpose, priorities, and creating meaningful change right where you are. Michael Butler proves that sometimes the most significant leadership happens when we choose what truly matters. If you're searching for your own purpose or trying to understand how your past experiences might be shaping your future calling, this episode will inspire you to look at your pain through a new lens and consider how it might be guiding you toward your most meaningful work.
👋 Follow me for more podcasting tips and exclusive offers:
🔥 Instagram: / drbrianearnold
🚀 Facebook: / brianearnold
📺 YouTube: / @brianearnold1
💼 LinkedIn: / brianearnold
🐦 X: https://x.com/DrBearnold
📱 TikTok: / brianearnold1
📚 Books: www.brianearnold.com/books
#personaldevelopmentmustwatchvideo #inspirationalstory #purposefulliving
http://thepodcastchallenge.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
All right, all right, all right, just here we are.
This is Dr B, just so excited.
We got another edition of theJourney Free Podcast.
Oh my gosh, you guys are in fora treat today.
You know, every time I get todo one of these podcasts and I
get to talk to I guess I justhave a bias.
When I get to talk aboutenergetic black men who are
(00:37):
doing stuff, my heart just getswarm, I get excited.
I can't wait to hear everythingthat's going on in your life
and all the things you're beingable to do.
And I love my other show.
So I have another show.
It's called Living Boldly withPurpose and it is just that
We'll talk about a lot of theaspects and the things and you
(00:59):
know what does it mean to livein purpose and all that kind of
stuff.
But there's just somethingspecial about we're at about 200
and some episodes now of theJourney to Freedom podcast I
have I said in 2024, you know Ihad gone to a.
It was a trust leadershipconference and it was in
(01:19):
Minnesota.
It was really good.
A guy by the name of DavidHorsager led this event.
I've had him on my podcast, myLiving Boldly with Purpose
podcast.
It was probably one of the best.
I'm 60 years old now.
It was probably one of the bestconferences that I had been to,
and it was a three-day event.
And he just, I mean, he pullsno stops and he understands
(01:41):
trust and what it means to trustand all these things.
And so there's 500 people inthis room and, you know, I
started looking around andthere's about 30 folks that look
like me that are in the roomand I'm going okay, 500 people,
some really good content, somethings that our community really
needs to.
You know, just to know and tobe exposed to.
(02:04):
You know, if there's a communityof people that have trouble
with trust issues sometimes, youknow, I think it's ours, and
not just because I live withinour community.
You know it could be the sameeverywhere, but somehow I don't
think so.
And so I came back and I saidthis needs to change.
And so in 2004, I said I'mgoing to do at least 100.
I'm going to find Black men whoare doing something and making
(02:27):
a change on a community level,on a, you know, in the city
level, in the rural area level,not just.
You know what we see asentertainment or what we see as
music or some of the things.
You know, the people that weidolize because they're famous,
but what about the everydayperson who is going to schools
(02:48):
and showing up at parks and, youknow, making sure that people
are taken care of, are there.
And so that began that journeyto freedom.
And then I was able to take, youknow, some men down to Alabama
and do some stuff and justcontinues just to be this
incredible place where I get totalk about some of the wonderful
things that we're doing inevery community.
(03:09):
And then, you know, I get to,you know, get to talk to you,
you know, and get introduced toyou and go, wait a minute.
Here's just another example ofsomebody who's out there doing
stuff, and so, like all of ourother shows, I've asked Michael
to share his story, to talkabout what it is that makes him,
I guess, to tell us about hisgenius, what he's been able to
(03:32):
do in the community that he'sthere, and I said, hey, like I
told you, you can start anywhereyou want, start at your mama's
womb, or start somewhere in themiddle, the middle, because I
think for a lot of us, if we canunderstand who you are, then
what you do becomes even thatmore special, and so you know
(03:53):
again, thank you for being ontoday, thank you for taking your
time in your evening time herein the middle of the week to be
able to be on this podcast, andI just hope it just enlightens
and helps the folks that arewatching.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
So please go ahead, tell us your story and then
we'll just chop it up after thatyeah, thanks, dr b, I'm excited
for the conversation, uh, andof course I'm mike butler and uh
, yeah, I've never been called agenius before, so that's a,
that's a new title.
I I really, I really appreciatethe, the and to look inside any
(04:25):
kind of jeans that I may have.
But my story really starts outin my hometown of St Louis,
missouri.
I played a baseball game when Iwas a kid and I played
shortstop for a team here calledthe Herbert Hoover Boys and
Girls Club.
It's in North City, thelow-income area of the city, and
(04:47):
I grew up not rich at all, poor.
As a kid we were playing a teamthat I knew was cheating and
this team is a verywell-recognized name in St Louis
.
I'm not going to say because Idon't want to offend them, but
I've told this story that thisteam was cheating.
They were throwing dirt in theair going into second base if
you played baseball.
(05:08):
I played shortstop, so theykind of throw some stuff at you
going to third or put theircleats in the air sliding in the
base.
To be honest, we lost that gameto this team, the rival team
that we have at Herbert Hoover.
They loved hearing me say thatwe lost the game.
I remember telling my dad inthe game I was like dad um, it's
(05:30):
not fair, it's like dad, youknow.
You told me cheaters never win.
It's not, that's not fair.
They were obviously cheating.
They won the game.
My dad told me something thathe told me a lot when I was a
kid.
He said, son, life isn't fairand at that moment that I
realized that I wanted to makelife more fair for everyone, and
as a seven-year-old, I didn'taccept that concept, that life
(05:53):
couldn't be fair.
Even though, growing up in apoor area of St Louis Missouri,
I wanted to make sure that otherfolks didn't experience the
negative trauma that I had as akid from time to time.
So I had since dedicated mylife to public service.
Then I then attended collegesome years later at Alabama A&M
(06:16):
University, where the theme ofthe school is services.
Sovereignty is our motto andit's a's a a great public
institution, hbcu in alabama, inhuntsville, alabama, that asks
uh folks to use what they learnhere in service to the, to the
community, in in some parts ofthe race.
(06:37):
And I was blessed to be verysuccessful at alabama in my.
I was a student governmentpresident by my senior year.
I graduated with honors, uh,and, be honest, I had a blast at
alabama a&m university.
I had a great time, and but ifthere are any young guys
listening to this podcast, Ilike to tell them when you're
(06:58):
thinking about college, go tothe place that wants you, no
matter what that place is.
And I chose alabama a&m becauseI got a full ride.
Academic scholarship uh, mytuition was full, fully paid, in
my room and board uh, I filedthe money and it was the best
decision I ever made.
I got accepted to many othercolleges, some with bigger names
(07:21):
, but they weren't giving.
They wanted me to pay them tobe there.
In a sense, alabama A&M waspaying me to be present and I
felt like even at 17, that thatwas important, that somebody
wanted me and that theorganization wanted me, and that
truly changed my collegeexperience and it truly helped
(07:44):
me to be more successful incollege and to take risk and to
expand in my leadershippotential and I got to try a lot
of different things and reallypractice the leadership I got to
do later on in life.
So after I left college, I was,I wanted to start a company.
I'm much like you, dr B I'm anentrepreneur.
(08:05):
I'm in a sense of some peoplecan call me a serial
entrepreneur.
My father started a businesswhen I was nine years old and
since then I really have beenhit with a bug like him to to
leave my own company and dothings my way, and I decided
that I want to get into service,but in order to be a public
(08:27):
servant, I wanted to get richfirst.
I wanted to have a company,wanted to have some money, and
that way I could never be boughtout as a politician.
That was my goal at like 20.
Like, okay, I'm dedicated toservice, but it's better.
I put this in my mind.
It was better for me to getinto service if I had a lot of
money.
And, um, some people could saythat's, that could be, that was
(08:49):
the devil's extra thing to putit in, you know.
But uh, and so I decided afterI graduated, after I graduated
undergrad.
So I got a business degree inundergrad, but I graduated in
2008.
I originally wanted to start acompany right at the college of
22.
And if you remember the year2008, it was a big economic
(09:09):
downturn.
Half, like quite a few peoplein my graduating class, didn't
have a job offer upon graduation.
It wasn't easy for people in mygeneration coming out of
college for those few years, andI was lucky enough to get a job
offer where I was actually.
I actually started out incorporate America at a small
(09:29):
company Might've heard of itcalled Walmart stores,
incorporated.
I started out in Benville with areally cool job as a 22 year
old.
I was a liquor buyer forWalmart at 20 years old.
Pretty fun job.
So I was the term wasreplenishment manager.
(09:51):
I was responsible forpurchasing and replenishing
liquor stock for over 600 Sam'sclubs across the country and I
was really good at it.
I was really good at good at myjob.
I made good money not greatmoney, but decent money for a
22-year-old.
I lived a very peaceful and coollife in Bentonville, arkansas,
(10:13):
but I hated my job.
I hated it.
I hated corporate America.
From probably the 31st day itwas really cool.
Until every day I walked intowork at seven, eight o'clock in
the morning and I'm just like,why am I here?
I didn't feel any purpose inlife and I have learned quickly.
(10:34):
The reason I was there inBenville was to meet my wife.
I met my wife in Benville,arkansas, the summer.
I decided to leave and we arestill married today.
And we started dating inBenville and we are still
married today.
Um, and and we started datingthen in benville and we were
married today, but I at the timeI could not tell you why I was
in benville, arkansas, so I wentto lunch with a, a mentor of
(10:54):
mine and frat brother, uh, whowas in the legal department at
in at walmart storesincorporated, and he was asking
me hey, what do you really wantto do in life?
What do you, what, what, whatare your?
What are your real goals like?
Do you really want, do you want, to stay here in walmart
forever?
And I'll tell them no, I wantto get into politics.
I'm just here to make money andlearn how, learn how to run a
company.
Man, I want to, or maybe makesome quite a bit of money and
(11:16):
then run for office.
And this uh brother changed mylife and was having saying he
said, michael, you Quit now.
He said get out of here.
He said get out of here rightnow.
He said you don't want to getstuck in Benville.
He said you don't want to meetsome lady you don't have, you're
not married, don't have kids,don't get stuck.
Do what you want to do rightnow, do your purpose.
(11:36):
And that really resonated withme.
And so when I got back to mydesk that day, I decided I
prayed about it in my desk thatday.
I decided, I prayed about it inmy desk and I was.
I was driven to, to, to, topursue that and kind of the plan
that came to me from thismentor was that, hey, if you got
(11:58):
, if you just got, to govolunteer and be an intern in a
campaign, go back home and dothat.
If you're going to be a staffer, go back home and do that.
If you want to go to graduateschool, just go to graduate
school or something like that,go and do that.
So I pursued research, allthree of those avenues, and I
kind of did all three.
So I actually applied tograduate school, first at the
(12:18):
University of Missouri, which is30 minutes from the state
Capitol and has a lot ofconnections to the state Capitol
in Columbia, missouri, and Igot accepted to graduate school
for a master's in publicadministration and I got a full
scholarship for graduate school.
So I applied that day and Ifound out a few months later I
got a full ride tuition andscholarship to graduate school.
(12:42):
When I was in graduate school Istarted out in politics as an
intern.
I decided that I wanted to dograduate school differently than
I did undergrad and undergrad.
I was very involved on campus.
I was some people could call meone.
I wouldn't say I was, but it'sone of the men on campus, one of
the big guys on campus.
But I said, this time I want tobe just as involved off the
(13:05):
campus as I was on campus andcommunity relationships uh, like
I as well as on-campusrelationships.
So I was able to do that, uh,by being an intern in the state
legislature.
So I started out as a gradstudent and an intern in
Missouri State House.
I worked for the staterepresentative that represented
the University of Missouri andhad a blast I.
(13:28):
I originally wanted to go backhome and run for local politics
as a city council person, but Ifell in love with state politics
at 23.
And my state representative,who I was working with, she fell
in love with me.
So she actually, at the end ofmy internship her current
staffer was leaving to pursueanother job opportunity.
(13:50):
She asked me to work for her tobe her legislative assistant.
Well, a little bit of that.
She asked me at the time whatdo you want to do when you
graduate?
I said I want to run for office.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
I want to be a state representative.
I said I want to go back home.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Just go back home and be a city councilman.
I want to be up here.
She said, well, representative.
I said I want to go back home.
Just go back home and be a citycouncilman.
I want to be up here.
She said, well, I'm helping youdo that.
I want to hire you as my aid.
So then I became stafford um,great job.
I almost loved that.
So I served uh elected officialfor two years uh in jefferson
city and learned everythingabout the state capital and
about, and everything aboutbeing a good uh state elected
(14:26):
official.
And, as God would have it, myhome district in St Louis
Missouri for staterepresentative opened up in 2011
through redistricting throughthe whole state.
There was nobody running forthe place where I grew up in St
Louis Missouri and, as fatewould have it too, there were a
(14:49):
couple state representatives whowere looking for someone to run
in that space, and they askedme if I was interested in
running, and I was just heavensent.
So I said yes.
I said let me look it up firstand research see if I can win,
and I did.
And a month later, I said, yeah, I want to run in this.
(15:10):
And the rest is history.
And since, when it came to mewinning that race, it was.
I went from in Bentonville,arkansas, at the lunch with my
friend, to becoming an actualelected official within a span
of three years, and that wasjust truly a blessing, not
something that I thought wouldoccur when I was having that
(15:30):
lunch.
So yeah, ever since then, I wasvery successful as a young
state legislator.
I was 26 years old when I firstgot elected to the state house.
I thought I knew a lot and.
I didn't know a lot, but at thesame time I do look back as a
39-year-old now.
Lot I knew I was, but at thesame time I do look back and, as
a 39 year old now, like man, Iwas young and making some
(15:53):
mistakes.
I did a lot of things right,but I also did quite a few
things that I wish I could, thatI wish youth had, that the
experience had of overcame myyouth but at the same time I was
very successful as a statelegislator.
The things I learned incorporate America and in college
and the things that my fatherand my mother instilled in me as
(16:14):
a child led to me becoming oneof the youngest members of
leadership in the state house.
I was elected to be the caucuschair of the Democratic caucus
at age 30.
So other leaders chose me tolead them in the Democratic
caucus and I was very successfulto in a sense change the way
(16:36):
some of the things in our caucuswere run and lead leaders at a
young age but at the same timeto get to work through the
position I'm in now.
I got married and had thosekids and my friend knew what
happened and in that last termI'll never forget beginning of
(16:58):
that last term.
I'm in my dream job and I livedin St Louis.
The state capitol is inJefferson City and most
politicians state level orcongressional politicians have
to travel away from home inorder to do their job in their
state capitol.
It's a sacrifice that you make.
My daughter was just turningthree years old and she was old
(17:20):
enough to talk at the time andI'll never forget on a Monday
when I was leaving town to go tothe state capitol that week to
be gone for about five days, mydaughter looks up at me and she
says Daddy, are you leavingagain?
And that's when it hit me thatI worked in a different city
than I lived in, away from myfamily, and while I had a really
(17:41):
good last two years inlegislature, my family life was
not good and my you know itreally affected how I even felt
about what was my dream job.
It was harder and harder todrive those two hours to get to
the state capitol every week.
So I decided to run for a morelocal office to really stretch
(18:04):
my master's degree in publicadministration, because I asked
the legislative branch to be anexecutive branch office as well
as allow myself to be closer tofamily, which became more
important to me at the time andstill is so.
I ran for office in 2018 as arecorder of deeds for the city
(18:26):
of St Louis and within six tonine months, I was elected as
the first African-Americanperson ever in the history of
our state to be elected as arecorder of deeds in the state.
There are over a hundredcounties in our state and I'm
the first electedAfrican-American.
There's been a couple appointed, but I'm the first one ever in
all the counties in our state tobe elected um, as well as, of
(18:49):
course, the first one ever in mycity to be an african.
Mariner's position had neverbeen held by an african-american
in the past and since then,I've just transformed the office
to uh, to be moreforward-thinking, to be to come
to the 21st century and I liketo say, in some ways, the the
22nd century.
We're utilizing online servicesand artificial intelligence and
(19:13):
better customer service than anyother office in our state and
right now, we're the highestrated government office in the
entire state and, quite frankly,we're still not satisfied and
we want to keep pushing that alittle further and save the city
some money and give ourcitizens better services, and I
found that service doesn't haveto be, doesn't have equal fame
(19:37):
or equal something that gets youin the news every day, but it's
something that you, thatdedication I had for service
from when I was a kid, issomething that just makes
someone's life a little easierand reduces the amount of trauma
they may have.
And I've been blessed.
I've been blessed.
So my focus has went from justserving the entire public and
(20:02):
trying to change the world toserving my family and serving my
local community and changingthe world on that level, until
God calls me to serve at anotherlevel.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Wow, thank you for sharing what an incredible story
and as I think I got so manyquestions to figure out where to
start.
So initially, when I'm sittinghere thinking I don't ever think
I ever heard anybody like whenthey were kids and I want to
grow up to be a reporter ofdeeds, it's just not one of
(20:34):
those and, you know, think of itas a position that has impact,
but it must have a lot of impact.
So maybe just kind of share alittle bit about what a recorder
of deeds does and like, what isyour impact as you move through
the city?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yeah, the recorder of deeds.
There's a recorder or aregister or a clerk in every
county in this in the country.
My office is responsible forproviding and overseeing all the
land deeds of the city all thebirth records, all the death
records and all the archives andthe marriage licenses of the
city.
So any important document thatyou need, we are there to
(21:12):
provide that for you when youneed it, as well as keep it safe
for safekeeping to protectthose actual physical documents.
In the meantime, the firstrecorder of deeds in the country
Black recorder of deeds in thecountry is actually Frederick
Douglass.
The first black recorder ofdeeds in the country was
actually Frederick Douglass.
He recognized how important itwas to in the 1800s, how
(21:33):
important it was for AfricanAmericans to oversee land
records for folks in ourcommunity.
That was his first and onlypolitical office throughout his
life.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
That's so cool, just because you brought that up.
When I think of being able tocreate relationships, and be
around people.
I don't know if there's, youknow, I guess they say, like
with Kevin Bacon there's sevenlevels of separation and that
kind of stuff and can you findcommonality in people?
And sure, as a politicianyou've been able to find and
(22:11):
create relationships throughcommonality.
But when I think about like soI have a stepson and his lineage
goes to Frederick Douglass, sohe's like a great, great, great
grandson of Frederick Douglass.
And here now Frederick Douglassis the county reporter.
He was one of our.
I took him with us when we wentto Alabama.
(22:31):
We learned all about, you know,not just what the history books
say, but a whole bunch of otherstuff so cool that there's
always something in common.
So I guess, when I think aboutidentity and I don't know if
there's term limits as therecorder of deeds and you can
(22:52):
only do it so many years andthen you have to do something
else, but maybe kind of talk tome, because you said you grew up
in St Louis and it wasn't, youknow, not wealthy.
In fact, you said you guys werepoor, not wealthy.
In fact, you said you guys werepoor and then you get a
scholarship academically.
So there had to be somethingthat's going on in this
(23:16):
community that you're in, thatallowed you to excel
academically and for you tobelieve that you belonged going
to Huntsville to be on ascholarship and that you could
thrive there.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, when it comes to education, I don't.
I don't have this, I don't havethe sob story that some people
have, but like I'm not a firstgeneration college student, I'm
not, I didn't have to.
Of course it was expected of meto excel academically, but not
for the reasons, not for anormal, I would say, a movie,
(23:54):
stereotypical way ofAfrican-American.
My great grandmother has acollege degree.
My grandmother has a college, amaster's degree.
My mother is an attorney.
She has a JD.
On my mother's side, um,education attainment was an
expectation.
Even even though we didn't havefinancial uh advantages, we
(24:19):
always had uh, in a sense of wewere instilled us to have
educational advances in that ina
sense.
In a sense, I grew up in afamily that education and
intelligence was more importantthan money, and yeah.
So going to Alabama A&M wasmore of extension of what my
grandparents had.
(24:39):
My grandparents attended HBCUand met at HBCU, at Kentucky
State University.
I grew up in a household wherethe Crisis magazine was on the
table every day and I didn'teven know what that was until I
went to HBCU.
I was like, oh, this is theNAACP's magazine.
I've been reading this my wholelife, I don't know.
I mean Ebony Magazine was onthe table every day, I mean next
(25:02):
to the Bible.
So we were very and.
I got to that my grandparentsare educators, so they were both
teachers in the St Louis publicschool system.
So the education attainment wasnot even a question for us and
I but I but.
But getting a scholarship was achoice that I made.
(25:22):
That and attending HBCU was notforced on us.
So my mother went to Universityof Missouri Columbia.
She didn't go attend HBCU.
It wasn't a requirement to goto HBCU.
But when I was 17 years old,this little move I can't say
little this little movie cameout called Drumline.
That was started.
I really wanted to go toFlorida State University and by
(25:47):
the time I watched Drumline Iwas like I want to go to Florida
A&M and I decided that I wantedto go to HBCU, which in a sense
was in most cases our smallschools and our state schools,
and it opened up a world to methat allowed me to be able to
get more money scholarship moneyas well, be able to get more
(26:10):
money, scholarship money as well.
So now I guess what I saw wassuccessful parents and
grandparents who showed thatgetting an education could give
you more options.
It wasn't a requirement, but itgives you more options to
success, and that's one thing Itry to instill in younger folks
as well that I mean if you wantto go do trucking or do anything
(26:30):
else, that's perfectly fine,but sometimes you might be
limiting your options careerwise at the beginning.
Now let me add this to I'venoticed the older I get is that
the more money you can make at18, 19, you save that money.
Cash expands your options aswell.
So there's a way to, if you'renot going to go to college, make
(26:52):
sure you're saving your moneyand invest your money until when
you turn 25 or 26 or 30 or 35.
You have cash.
Cash gives you options as well.
But if you want those careeroptions, you can go to college
and you can go from one placeanother.
You can um, it does allow youto move careers a lot better if
you have a college degree ratherthan if you stayed in one
(27:13):
position and didn't have adegree.
But sometimes a lot of collegegraduates don't have that cash
that a lot of the non-collegegraduates have early on in life.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Talk to me a little bit about.
We think of.
You know associations andpeople that have been in our
lives and you talked a littlebit about a mentor that you had
that just told you to quit.
You know I've never heard itcalled Walmart Incorporated.
It kind of has a ring of youknow some of the, you know some
of the, some of the.
(27:49):
I love it, but you know, andsometimes you know say you are
who you hang around with, youare the people that you're
around.
I like to say sometimes you arewho you compare yourself with,
that you hang around with.
But maybe kind of talk aboutthat.
What are some of the people inyour life, the people that made
(28:11):
a difference, that kind ofchanneled your trajectory into
where you are now and theabilities that you have with
folks now?
Maybe kind of just talk abouthow important that is.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
That is very important when I think about a
lot of my mentors have mostlybeen from my fraternity.
I'm a member of Kappa Alpha PsiFraternity Incorporated and I
became a member in college atAlabama A&M University and,
(28:44):
quite frankly, I came from avery large chapter.
When I crossed, we wereactually the largest chapter in
the country.
I have to say that I had a lotof attachments and a lot of
associations with really smartand successful guys, because
we're about achievement.
In Kappa Alpha Psi, upongraduating, I had 120 brothers
(29:07):
who were in the same fraternityas me and then you know, about
30 or so pledge every year.
So we have a large network offolks who are connected and I
have some.
And what was interesting aboutmy our chapter is that we have
quite a few successfulpoliticians coming from directly
from that school chapter.
Two of them were in the statelegislature.
(29:30):
When I interned there, you guyswere a part of the group that
asked me to run for office.
So when I showed up in thestate house as an intern, I mean
, what amazing is to me that Ihave two.
And these guys were both youngtoo.
They were20-something-year-olds just
elected in 2008, youngpoliticians who really gave me
(29:54):
an advantage over other folks.
I had a long-standingrelationship.
I knew two actual young,popular state representatives
who were like oh hey, michael,how are you?
Yo, come have a drink with ushere.
That was a big deal forsomething that people usually
(30:18):
get.
Maybe they go to Harvard orthey go to Yale.
I got that by going to AlabamaA&M University.
Those guys directed me in theright way, of course.
They directed me to run in adistrict that was meant in a
sense was meant for me.
But after that, one person thathas and I gotta shout out their
name.
Those guys are StateRepresentative Chris Carter,
(30:42):
whose family is a legend in StLouis, and at the time, state
Representative Don Callaway, whois a legend in St Louis, and at
the time State RepresentativeDon Calloway, who is a media
powerhouse nationally here nowand is one of my really good
friends.
But they also I would say, theone since I've been elected,
another fraternity brother ofmine.
(31:02):
His name is Starsky Wilson.
Reverend Starsky Wilson, who isnow the director of the
Children's Defense Fund.
Name is Starsky Wilson.
Reverend Starsky Wilson, who isnow the director of the
Children's Defense Fund, hasbeen a tremendous person to be
associated with and to learnfrom and to instance.
Compare in a sense, when I metStarsky, he was a street
preacher for a church in mystate representative district
(31:25):
and, in a sense, a civil rightsleader here in St Louis.
He led a lot of the protestsaround the Trayvon Martin murder
here in St Louis and was adynamic community figure and
just a smart guy in a sense.
I really respect him and Donand Chris, because Kappa is not
(31:46):
the first thing people thinkwhen they see us.
Kappa is what connects us, it'snot what we promote ourselves.
So to be able to see him andothers lead past just the
association with such a boldorganization was important.
But since then he's reallydirected me in ways that makes
(32:07):
me a better leader.
He's a he's a reverend.
he's a non-profit leader andit's something that's connected
to community, something I wasinterested in at one point in
life as well, and yeah so thoseI like your point about you are
who you compare yourself to, ina sense, like you are, who your
role models are, like you arewho you who's your.
(32:31):
You are who your role modelsare and, uh, I, I like that, I
agree, I, I, I, um, and, andthat has, and I've been blessed
to have great role models andhave those, not even my family
or with my fraternity, and notwhile I have sought out other
role models and mentors and beensuccessful in that, and
sometimes unsuccessful ingetting those getting some good
mentors.
I've been blessed to have somenatural good role models.
I don't want to add some tothem.
Some people say you know theold term, the measure of a man,
(32:55):
and he wrote a book about themeasure of man and he has a a, a
historic quote the measure ofman is not where he stands in
times of peace, but in times ofcontroversy.
Uh, I have a different stand bymeasurement than martha king.
I say the measure he stands intimes of peace, in times of
controversy.
I have a different stand onmeasurement than Martin Luther
King.
I say the measure of a man ishow he treats those he doesn't
(33:17):
need.
And when I think aboutmentorship and some of those
guys who took me under theirwing, they didn't need me.
These guys were alwayssuccessful.
Quite a few of them are 10years or older than me or you
know they were heading ahead inlife and me more.
All three that I just namedmore talented than I am.
(33:38):
But the way they treated me assomeone that I didn't need was
changed my life and was veryimportant to how I treat others
too, because somewhere along inmy career I decided that I need
to treat everyone like they'rethe governor of the state of
Missouri and I found myself myfirst couple of years as a young
(34:03):
elected official being kind ofimportant and soaking in the
newfound importance and I had alot of.
You know, when you're apolitician you have a lot of
people coming at you or askingyou questions or calling you,
your phone's ringing a lot and Iwas answering my phone.
I was answering my phone a lotbut I was prioritizing who I was
answering the phone for, who Iwould interact with, because
(34:26):
that's what you do as aprofessional you have to
prioritize things.
But I realized that if thegovernor or the governor's
office called me, I'd pick up onthe first ring.
Oh, I got it.
And then it got to where I waslike, oh, they didn't call me as
much as I wanted to that year.
Maybe they called you once ortwice that year, which is kind
of be a big deal if you're 20something years old.
(34:46):
But I realized that all thosepeople that are calling me that,
that that in a sense I don'tneed I'm the governor to them
and it's very important that Iread that if I'm important to
those folks, I need to make surethat they're important to me,
and that really changed my, mylife in a sense, is measure
myself as a person as how howI'm in service to folks, and not
(35:08):
how I can use my relationshipsto just improve myself or
improve their well-being, buthow I'm in service to them in
every day.
And that simple thing ispicking up the phone.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Man, that's powerful.
I was just thinking, as youwere saying that, about the
people that I interacted with inthe last two weeks, and did I
treat them?
Because I don't know if there'sany.
Obviously there's severalpeople that I do need that I
interact with.
But then I think about thefolks that are coming to me for
advice or coming to me for helpor coming to me because of
(35:44):
whatever the reason is, and thenhow did I treat them?
And I love it.
I mean, I wrote it down so youknow it's gonna be something
incorporating the things that Ido.
Oh my gosh, and I love the factthat, uh, you were able to find
, uh, your preference.
I have, uh, I have a cousin inin texas.
His name is chris arnold, whichis like an original hall of
(36:05):
fame and he's like this famouson a daily show stuff and he's
kappa, and he told me that youknow, if there's anything you do
, brian, you got to play staffof you.
I unfortunately did go to auniversity or a college that
even had a remote offraternities and stuff, but had
I been to one, I would have.
I would have got lynched if Ididn't go, so I would have, and
(36:27):
he's been on my show and I'mjust so I'm thinking of all the
people he's introduced me towith the same thing where the
fraternity of brothers that makesure that they take care of me.
We're really happy in theOmegas here in Colorado and you
know when I get to see andinteract with a lot of, with a
lot of them and how they treateach other.
I want to shift focus a littlebit because it's something that
(36:48):
you mentioned that I don't wantto pass over because I think
it's so important, especiallywhen we talk about the persona
of what Black men are.
You said you changed a prettyheavy, intense job that was in
Jefferson City because of yourfamily.
It was that important to you,and so when I think about being
(37:12):
a dad and what that means to bea dad and we often talk about
how our kids we know all of ourkids absolutely need their dad
and every child should not growup without a dad.
If it's at all possible, howbig of an influence that is.
But sometimes we don't talkenough about what it means to be
a dad and who you are and whatyou've done as a result of the
(37:35):
importance of that.
Please share with us what youbelieve it means to be a dad.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
What it means to be a dad is a given purpose.
People look for purpose intheir life and when you make
children, then you have a, apurpose that you don't have to
(38:02):
question.
And, man, as long as we're bothprofessional guys, I've read
your bio.
You've had a great career andyou've done a lot of different
things and sometimes, whenyou're going through your career
, you're questioning, like, isthis what I'm supposed to be
doing now?
Like, yeah, I just set out todo that five years ago, but I'm
supposed to be doing this and Ido it already.
(38:24):
Being a dad, there's noquestion.
Like, being a dad is this iswhat you're supposed to be doing
.
This is this is supposed to bethe most important thing in your
life.
Um and I.
I'm very blessed to have twowonderful kids and and someone
to share um parenting with, withmy wife and I.
My wife is the best mother.
(38:44):
She makes being a dad mucheasier, um and but being a
parent is more about purpose.
So a few things led me to umbecome what I will, and it says,
become more of a family manthan a career driven person.
One was I grew up with uh halfof my life, yet childhood was
(39:05):
with.
I had a dad.
My dad was in the household.
My parents got divorced when Iwas nine years old, so halfway
through my childhood, and theother, in a sense, I was raised
halfway by a single mother.
My father was, of course, myfather had visitation and we
still know.
My father is one of my biggestfans and friends, but during
(39:26):
that time that was verydifficult for me and my siblings
.
The divorce was debilitatingfor some of my siblings.
They did not.
They still have not gotten pastthe trauma of that divorce.
But, more importantly, nothaving our dad in the household
had a tremendous impact on mychild and a tremendous impact on
(39:46):
me, and I vow like really, as ayoung person, I would never
want my kids to not have theirfather in the house.
And then I always reached backto.
There was a movie I saw.
I don't know when this moviecame out, either I was in high
school or college and I watchedthis movie almost every year now
(40:08):
and after I became a father, Iwas reminded.
This is where this, thisfeeling, came from.
For me it's a movie calledfamily man that stars Nicolas
Cage movie where because, uh, asa young kid you know growing up
either middle class.
Some parts, michael, later on,like we did become my parents,
got educated, became middleclass.
(40:30):
But either middle class or poor, you want to make money, you're
ambitious, you're like, hey, Ijust want to get on my
predicament.
And in this movie, nicolas Cageis a very successful Wall Street
broker and rich single guy wholives in Manhattan in a
penthouse and drives a Ferrari.
Through half of the movie andthis is the guy you want to be.
(40:53):
In a sense, he has a Scroogemoment where he is confronted by
an angel who gives him his lifein New Jersey where he would
have if he had to marry his in asense, his college sweetheart.
And at the end of the movie hechooses the college sweetheart
(41:17):
over his success for obviousreasons, mostly kind of the kid
thing.
Those kid scenes if you've seenthe movie, they're just amazing
.
So, yeah, I think at a younglet's say I was 17 or 18 or 22
when I saw the movie I was like,oh, that's what purpose is
about.
Uh, nicolas Cage had all thesuccess in the world, but he, he
(41:39):
felt way more purpose after thethree weeks of being with a
family and, um, yeah, I thinkthat that's what being a parent
is about.
It's about the natural purposesyou get, the moments that you
have as a parent that money cannever buy.
Money can never get you.
The time to parenting isimportant because my kids are
(42:14):
only going to get me in a dailyway for most likely 18 years and
I'm only going to get them.
My kids are six years apart for24 years.
So from the day my daughter wasborn to the day my youngest, my
oldest daughter was born theday my youngest daughter is
going to most likely go off tocollege, I'm only really
guaranteed 24 years.
It if me and my wife are don'tuh, lord lord, will this not
(42:37):
happen?
But my dad didn't get 24 years.
Let's say it's my parents, butmy dad only got 14 in the house
with his children.
Well, no, not his children, myoldest brother's team.
He only got 10 years to be inthe house with his children
every day.
So these are I look at thesejust precious times and my
daughters are just growing.
You can see.
(42:58):
You see the results in in beingparenting differently than you
see in a career, because you'rewatching something every day
grow, and physically.
It's like a tree is day.
Grow.
It's like a tree, it'sphysically grow.
They tell the best jokes andthe best stories.
Parenting is just a joy and anamazing part of purpose in your
(43:20):
life.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
It's only because you said they tell the best jokes.
They're not even funny unlessthey're coming from your kid.
Yeah, and they're not evenfunny unless they're coming from
your kid.
Yeah, it's so cool.
When some other person's kidtells that joke, you're like
that's dumb.
And then you hear your kid sayit it's the funniest thing ever
and it's so cool.
It's that feeling you get.
I can remember, like when myfirst son was born.
(43:44):
I had eight children when myfirst son was born and literally
, like you know, I I havewatched Roots or whatever, and
holding them up and going, youknow, behold, the only thing
greater than yourself and whatit meant to me is changing who I
am and then to see them grow up.
And so, you know, I'm fortunateenough to have seen all my kids
(44:06):
graduate high school, most ofthem graduate college and have
careers and have 16 grandkidsnow, and so I get to see that.
Can you know?
Now, the greatest thing ever isthose grandkids, and so, so
much that you have to lookforward to.
But one of the things that Iwould love for you to even go
beyond, because one of thethings they say is the greatest
thing you can do for a child,right or for you know a son or a
(44:26):
daughter if you're in thehousehold as a mother or mom
right to be able to have themsee that and maybe talk about
that relationship that you havewith your spouse that they get
to see as an example, that thoseare the you know people that
they're comparing right, theassociation.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Whatever people ask me this, I'd say that I'm sure
my wife would have a muchdifferent answer than I would.
I'm sure my wife would have amuch different answer than I
would, but I have heard my wifesay that you know I'm a
different person.
I'm much.
I definitely feel like I'm abetter husband than I was every
year hopefully every year, butdefinitely five or six years ago
(45:05):
.
I think your question was well,your question was just the
relationship.
How important is therelationship with a spouse?
Barack Obama says the mostimportant relationship you'll
ever have, the most importantchoice you'll ever make in life
and there's no doubt about thatfrom any successful person will
tell you who you choose to beyour partner and share your life
(45:28):
with is very important.
I was fortunate enough to knowthat as a young, younger person.
My grandmother and my motherinstilled that in me as a young
person.
Like who you choose who youspend your time with, as who
your girlfriend is, that's veryimportant.
Like don't, don't be goingafter these bad girls, in a
sense, because they're going towaste your time.
(45:50):
And I was a very ambitious evenas a young person and, of
course, I decided I want to bein public service at nine years
old.
I decided I want to be a NFLplayer and then own a business
and do all these things in lifeat a very young age and I was
lucky that I had parents whosaid, well, if you're going to
do that, then you probably needto be very picky when it comes
(46:12):
to partners and our marriage, mymarriage with my wife Erin has
transformed over time becausewhen I first got married I was a
very ambitious and in a sense Ididn't think I was but a very
selfish person with my time andI always had a vision of being,
(46:35):
of being a political animal,where you know the marriage was
about me and that my wife wouldsupport that.
That and she did.
Quite frankly, she did do it.
But there is no person who cando that for next four years and
not have some pain or sometrauma and over time.
(46:59):
And there's no person who canhave that arrangement as a man
or a woman and and be the theleader or the politician and not
become selfish or takeadvantage of of that partner and
no that that was importantbecause in a sense, it grounded
me and I had to make a choice atone point where it wasn't
(47:21):
ultimatum or anything, but Inoticed that my family was
suffering through my politicalanimalness and that my wanting
to be, share my time with thepublic and my family was not a
good enough balance.
I had to balance that a lotbetter and my wife really helped
(47:41):
me, help me through that time.
It was and was it.
It didn't look like it, Ididn't think it was the time,
but she was very supportivethrough those times and I'm very
grateful for that.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
So I guess you'd have to say that some of the
greatest women in the world comefrom Arkansas.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
All right, my wife actually from St Louis Missouri.
We met.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
That's a love story.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
We actually went to.
We both grew up in the city ofSt louis, uh, literally less
than a mile from each other.
We moved to different suburbanparts of the city and we went to
high school in suburban partsof the city which, and our high
schools, are less than two milesaway from each other.
We didn't know each other then.
Um, my wife went to southernuniversity in baton rouge,
(48:25):
louisiana.
I went to she's went to hbcu inthe south.
I went to school in the southin Huntsville, alabama, which is
not a mile apart, but one stateis over.
We both had that experience.
We didn't meet until we were inBentonville, arkansas.
We were in an apartment complexat a Walmart.
Of all places.
We didn't meet online.
I had to put some game on ayoung lady in Walmart to attract
(48:52):
this, the beautiful lady I have.
But um, no, she's not fromarkansas.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
There are some people , but the most beautiful woman I
know comes from st louis,missouri I want to just give a
little bit to to faith and wherefaith has played a part in your
life, uh, throughout the years,and how it's impacted you in
whatever way it has.
Maybe you can just talk alittle bit about what that means
to you.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Faith without works is dead.
That's number one.
I think faith is a part ofsuccess and it's shaped me.
My dad is a pastor, so I grewup in the church yeah, my dad is
, and my dad's a good preacher.
He's a very good preacher andhe instilled in me some very
(49:42):
important scriptures from ayoung person.
And then my dad, also in mychildhood, was not a great
example of faith.
At the same time Was not a verygood example of being a pastor
from time to time, and now he isa great example.
(50:02):
And so faith has taught me thatsin is not something me, that
sin is not something that'sforever, and that forgiveness is
important on both sides.
And forgiveness is a part offaith that we don't take
(50:26):
advantage.
In other words, that we don'tutilize as much, that we expect
quite a bit but we don't put outas much as Christians.
Most importantly, faith is abelief in God that most folks
don't dive deep into.
When I see my dad as a pastor,my dad is a Pentecostal pastor.
The only thing aboutdenominations Pentecostal is one
of the, let's say, hard beliefbelieve in miracles, kind of
(50:54):
denomination and when there weretimes where my faith was tested
and everyone doubts whether Godis hearing them or whether God
has their best interest at heart.
I had enough experiences as achild and as a young adult to
(51:16):
where I don't have to questionit for more than two seconds.
When I was a kid, I would losethings a lot.
I lost things a lot.
I was an ambitious kid tryingto run around.
I was that like kind of anathlete, so I would run around,
do things I never forget.
One time I was probably 11years old, I lost my wallet and
(51:39):
had a little money in thatwallet and you know living I was
really into projects at thetime so $2.25 in that wallet, I
needed that $2.25.
And one time I don't know if mymom told me this or not, but I
prayed about it and I prayed.
I was like God, just please letme find my wallet.
I need this money.
(52:00):
And I found the wallet withinlike 30 seconds.
I've been looking for it andthroughout my childhood I did
that quite a bit.
After that it worked.
Of course, I would do it againand every time I would lose
something, I would lose things,probably fairly importantly.
Maybe once every three monthsI'd be looking for it all over
and then I'd pray about it andI'd find it, and so that's an
(52:35):
example for me where, even as ayoung kid, my faith was shaped
that God is real and I haveexperience with God that some of
my other siblings don't.
I may also say my father was a.
As a Pentecostal, he was a, ina sense a healer.
There have been times where Iwas sick that my dad prayed over
me and I almost immediatelyfelt better and healed, and my
dad had that kind of faith andhe still does.
My dad has a physical kind offaith in Pentecostals, a
(52:58):
physical belief that God is withus.
We believe what Jesus said atthe last supper, that what God
had given Jesus he was givingall the apostles Some people
believe it stops at the apostles.
Pentecostals don't believe that.
We believe that that same thatJesus was saying, that that same
power is within us and everyone of us, every single one of
(53:22):
us who believe in Jesus and Icontinue that kind of faith
generationally from my father tomyself and hopefully to my
children- Thank you for sharingthat, one of the things I'd love
to know this is a question Idon't get to ask very many
people because many peoplearen't public service.
Speaker 1 (53:42):
If you were to give advice to somebody who is
wanting to run for office orsomebody who wants to live a
life in public service, what aresome of the things that you
would say is great about it thatyou should actually run into,
and maybe some things theyshould caution themselves if
this is the life that they wouldlove to have?
Speaker 2 (54:00):
Great, great, great question.
The things that are great aboutpublic service are that you,
depending on what positionyou're in or any leadership
position, you're really at theforefront of every issue for
folks.
So what attracted me topolitics and to be in public
(54:23):
service was that the things thatwere plaguing my city and the
things that give me trauma as ayoung, poor person, that I could
affect all of them, not just ifI was a teacher, my place is
just education.
If I was a preacher, my placeis really in the pulpit.
As an elected official.
If I was a lawyer, I wouldn'twant to be a lawyer like my mom,
(54:45):
just the judicial branch.
But as a politician, you'retrying to change laws and change
what tax dollars are spent.
That can each day be adifferent topic, but I will also
caution people.
That I learned later in life isthat that could be a burden as
(55:05):
well.
And me and my wife first gotmarried.
Our pastor and marriagecounselor said that one thing he
likes to tell new marriedcouples is that the thing that
attracts you to the person isgoing to be the thing that
annoys you about them later onin the marriage.
It happened in our marriage.
What attracted me to my wife.
She said in marriage counselingwas that I was a very ambitious
(55:27):
and, in a sense,entrepreneurial person, and
three years into the marriage,that ambition meant that I had a
lot of time away from thehousehold and was putting my
career over her Same thing aboutpolitics.
(55:54):
So having the responsibility ofbeing responsible for everyone's
issues and being able to fixpeople's issues can become
difficult, and then you becomeresponsible for other people's
issues when sometimes you havesome personal issues of your own
.
So I would ask folks not to be.
I hear a lot from folks thatthey're worried about their past
and negative attention.
The real thing to be consideredwhen getting into public office
(56:17):
is that the issues of othersnot just others of everyone
become your issues and peopleexpect you to solve not just
your problems but their problems, and that could be a big burden
.
Speaker 1 (56:30):
Yeah, it'd be hard to do, because you can't solve
everybody's problems.
You can't do that.
Some people just really don'twant their problem solved, they
just want to be able to complainabout it.
Speaker 2 (56:41):
A political mentor called me being a city council
member at St Louis.
He told me doing the impossiblefor the ungrateful.
Speaker 1 (56:51):
Ooh, wow.
Speaker 2 (56:54):
They asked me why I never ran for city council.
I tell them that quote likethat and there are different
levels where public service isnot as people are.
There are times when people arevery grateful, but some of the
lower levels direct people,political offices are doing the
impossible for the ungrateful.
And, yeah, it could be a bigburden, it could be difficult.
(57:17):
Wow, that's so cool man.
Speaker 1 (57:20):
This has been a great conversation, man.
I've enjoyed it so much.
I've been super selfish intrying to get to know you and
learn you and ask the questionsthat I wanted to know, and I
hope everybody else that iswatching gets to learn from that
.
But maybe just tell me a littlebit about you.
Know what you want to talkabout If there's something we
missed, something we didn't getto talk about.
(57:41):
You know how can people get ahold of you if you want to.
Speaker 2 (57:51):
I don't know if you want to or not, but maybe you
know, just you know from yourheart.
What would you love to share inthe last few minutes?
Yeah, I want to add that I knowyou take a trip to Alabama
every year, but I would say,either mix it up or add in the
state of Mississippi.
As someone who went to collegein Alabama, I've taken the same
trip.
You have the civil rights trip.
I've been to Selma, montgomery,birmingham, a lot of the rural
towns in the Blackville, alabama.
(58:13):
Some of my best friends arefrom Mobile, alabama, and
there's a lot of history in theBlackville and in Birmingham.
But my family is actually fromMississippi and we're from 30
Minutes.
My grandfather was born 30 Minminutes north of Jackson and
Vaughan, mississippi.
There's just as much history inthe state of Mississippi as
(58:37):
well and I've taken both civilrights trips there are.
But I will say, choose Alabamaas a good state, because Alabama
, in a sense, is where Georgiais, where in where I sense a lot
of success is portrayed.
Alabama, middle Road,mississippi, in some ways is
about the losses of the CivilRights Movement, about the
(59:00):
sacrifice of folks in CivilRights and some of the extending
circumstances from thosesacrifices that just resonate
with me so much because myfamily's from there and some of
that spirit is still in me, fromthe black men that sacrificed
(59:20):
their life in Mississippi.
And it comes to politics,mississippi was the most
powerful black state duringReconstruction, right after
slavery.
The first black United StatesSenator, hiram Nevels, was from
Mississippi and the first, oneof the first US Congressmen
Black US Congressmen fromMississippi.
(59:41):
And there were, and duringReconstruction hundreds of Black
men like myself ran for thestate legislature, ran for the
city council.
Black people immediately inMississippi started to take
power and built beautiful cities, amazing structures, um amazing
structure, political structure.
But they were murdered for it.
(01:00:02):
They were live meet myself, ata 26 year old I would have been
murdered in vaughan, mississippi, 80 years ago, 100 years ago,
trying to live out my purpose inlife.
And I think about those storiesof the most well-known civil
rights leader from Mississippiis Medgar Evers.
Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
In.
Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Georgia it's Martin Luther King.
In Alabama it's ShuttlesworthReverend Shuttlesworth.
In Mississippi it was a man whowas murdered, mcgregor Evers.
So I would just say I wouldlove to go on a trip with you,
but I would say let's addMississippi in there, and then
there's so much richness in thesoil of Mississippi for us.
(01:00:47):
So people can find me asMichael Butler on most of social
media sites or St Louis CityRecorder Vids or STL Mike Butler
.
Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
Thank you so much.
Thank you for spending yourtime with us today.
What a wealth of information.
I hope you look him up.
I hope you check out everythingyou can I am going to, for
those of you thinking arethinking about going on a trip
with us, I'm getting Mr Butlerwith us because I know he knows
the history way better than evenI could pretend to or ever know
(01:01:22):
to, and so if this is yourfirst time that you've watched
an episode with us, please behappy to turn on and hit the
notifications and subscribebuttons and all the things that
folks do in order to see thecontent that we're putting out.
So many good guests, so manygreat folks, that we just get to
understand their lives and whatthey do and how they do it, and
(01:01:44):
so I'd love for you to do that.
You see on the bottom of thescreen where it says
becomingthepersoncom.
We are launching a communityabout helping you become that
person that you were meant to be, what God put you on the search
to be in ways that you can'teven believe, and so I'd love
for you to be a part of that aswell, and so I can't wait to
talk to you on the next one.
Don't forget your God'sgreatest gift he loves you.
(01:02:06):
If you allow him to, mr MichaelButler, do you have any one
last word that you'd love toshare with everybody?
Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
I'm very blessed to be on the podcast with you, dr B
, looking forward to continuingthe relationship.
Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
Absolutely Thank you.
You guys have an amazing,awesome, incredible day today.
We'll talk to you soon, you.
All right, all right, all right, just here we are.
This is Dr B, just so excited.
We got another edition of theJourney Free Podcast.
Oh my gosh, you guys are in fora treat today.
You know, every time I get todo one of these podcasts and I
get to talk to I guess I justhave a bias.
When I get to talk aboutenergetic black men who are
(00:37):
doing stuff, my heart just getswarm, I get excited.
I can't wait to hear everythingthat's going on in your life
and all the things you're beingable to do.
And I love my other show.
So I have another show.
It's called Living Boldly withPurpose and it is just that
We'll talk about a lot of theaspects and the things and you
(00:59):
know what does it mean to livein purpose and all that kind of
stuff.
But there's just somethingspecial about we're at about 200
and some episodes now of theJourney to Freedom podcast I
have I said in 2024, you know Ihad gone to a.
It was a trust leadershipconference and it was in
(01:19):
Minnesota.
It was really good.
A guy by the name of DavidHorsager led this event.
I've had him on my podcast, myLiving Boldly with Purpose
podcast.
It was probably one of the best.
I'm 60 years old now.
It was probably one of the bestconferences that I had been to,
and it was a three-day event.
And he just, I mean, he pullsno stops and he understands
(01:41):
trust and what it means to trustand all these things.
And so there's 500 people inthis room and, you know, I
started looking around andthere's about 30 folks that look
like me that are in the roomand I'm going okay, 500 people,
some really good content, somethings that our community really
needs to.
You know, just to know and tobe exposed to.
(02:04):
You know, if there's a communityof people that have trouble
with trust issues sometimes, youknow, I think it's ours, and
not just because I live withinour community.
You know it could be the sameeverywhere, but somehow I don't
think so.
And so I came back and I saidthis needs to change.
And so in 2004, I said I'mgoing to do at least 100.
I'm going to find Black men whoare doing something and making
(02:27):
a change on a community level,on a, you know, in the city
level, in the rural area level,not just.
You know what we see asentertainment or what we see as
music or some of the things.
You know, the people that weidolize because they're famous,
but what about the everydayperson who is going to schools
(02:48):
and showing up at parks and, youknow, making sure that people
are taken care of, are there.
And so that began that journeyto freedom.
And then I was able to take, youknow, some men down to Alabama
and do some stuff and justcontinues just to be this
incredible place where I get totalk about some of the wonderful
things that we're doing inevery community.
(03:09):
And then, you know, I get to,you know, get to talk to you,
you know, and get introduced toyou and go, wait a minute.
Here's just another example ofsomebody who's out there doing
stuff, and so, like all of ourother shows, I've asked Michael
to share his story, to talkabout what it is that makes him,
I guess, to tell us about hisgenius, what he's been able to
(03:32):
do in the community that he'sthere, and I said, hey, like I
told you, you can start anywhereyou want, start at your mama's
womb, or start somewhere in themiddle, the middle, because I
think for a lot of us, if we canunderstand who you are, then
what you do becomes even thatmore special, and so you know
(03:53):
again, thank you for being ontoday, thank you for taking your
time in your evening time herein the middle of the week to be
able to be on this podcast, andI just hope it just enlightens
and helps the folks that arewatching.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
So please go ahead, tell us your story and then
we'll just chop it up after thatyeah, thanks, dr b, I'm excited
for the conversation, uh, andof course I'm mike butler and uh
, yeah, I've never been called agenius before, so that's a,
that's a new title.
I I really, I really appreciatethe, the and to look inside any
(04:25):
kind of jeans that I may have.
But my story really starts outin my hometown of St Louis,
missouri.
I played a baseball game when Iwas a kid and I played
shortstop for a team here calledthe Herbert Hoover Boys and
Girls Club.
It's in North City, thelow-income area of the city, and
(04:47):
I grew up not rich at all, poor.
As a kid we were playing a teamthat I knew was cheating and
this team is a verywell-recognized name in St Louis
.
I'm not going to say because Idon't want to offend them, but
I've told this story that thisteam was cheating.
They were throwing dirt in theair going into second base if
you played baseball.
(05:08):
I played shortstop, so theykind of throw some stuff at you
going to third or put theircleats in the air sliding in the
base.
To be honest, we lost that gameto this team, the rival team
that we have at Herbert Hoover.
They loved hearing me say thatwe lost the game.
I remember telling my dad inthe game I was like dad um, it's
(05:30):
not fair, it's like dad, youknow.
You told me cheaters never win.
It's not, that's not fair.
They were obviously cheating.
They won the game.
My dad told me something thathe told me a lot when I was a
kid.
He said, son, life isn't fairand at that moment that I
realized that I wanted to makelife more fair for everyone, and
as a seven-year-old, I didn'taccept that concept, that life
(05:53):
couldn't be fair.
Even though, growing up in apoor area of St Louis Missouri,
I wanted to make sure that otherfolks didn't experience the
negative trauma that I had as akid from time to time.
So I had since dedicated mylife to public service.
Then I then attended collegesome years later at Alabama A&M
(06:16):
University, where the theme ofthe school is services.
Sovereignty is our motto andit's a's a a great public
institution, hbcu in alabama, inhuntsville, alabama, that asks
uh folks to use what they learnhere in service to the, to the
community, in in some parts ofthe race.
(06:37):
And I was blessed to be verysuccessful at alabama in my.
I was a student governmentpresident by my senior year.
I graduated with honors, uh,and, be honest, I had a blast at
alabama a&m university.
I had a great time, and but ifthere are any young guys
listening to this podcast, Ilike to tell them when you're
(06:58):
thinking about college, go tothe place that wants you, no
matter what that place is.
And I chose alabama a&m becauseI got a full ride.
Academic scholarship uh, mytuition was full, fully paid, in
my room and board uh, I filedthe money and it was the best
decision I ever made.
I got accepted to many othercolleges, some with bigger names
(07:21):
, but they weren't giving.
They wanted me to pay them tobe there.
In a sense, alabama A&M waspaying me to be present and I
felt like even at 17, that thatwas important, that somebody
wanted me and that theorganization wanted me, and that
truly changed my collegeexperience and it truly helped
(07:44):
me to be more successful incollege and to take risk and to
expand in my leadershippotential and I got to try a lot
of different things and reallypractice the leadership I got to
do later on in life.
So after I left college, I was,I wanted to start a company.
I'm much like you, dr B I'm anentrepreneur.
(08:05):
I'm in a sense of some peoplecan call me a serial
entrepreneur.
My father started a businesswhen I was nine years old and
since then I really have beenhit with a bug like him to to
leave my own company and dothings my way, and I decided
that I want to get into service,but in order to be a public
(08:27):
servant, I wanted to get richfirst.
I wanted to have a company,wanted to have some money, and
that way I could never be boughtout as a politician.
That was my goal at like 20.
Like, okay, I'm dedicated toservice, but it's better.
I put this in my mind.
It was better for me to getinto service if I had a lot of
money.
And, um, some people could saythat's, that could be, that was
(08:49):
the devil's extra thing to putit in, you know.
But uh, and so I decided afterI graduated, after I graduated
undergrad.
So I got a business degree inundergrad, but I graduated in
2008.
I originally wanted to start acompany right at the college of
22.
And if you remember the year2008, it was a big economic
(09:09):
downturn.
Half, like quite a few peoplein my graduating class, didn't
have a job offer upon graduation.
It wasn't easy for people in mygeneration coming out of
college for those few years, andI was lucky enough to get a job
offer where I was actually.
I actually started out incorporate America at a small
(09:29):
company Might've heard of itcalled Walmart stores,
incorporated.
I started out in Benville with areally cool job as a 22 year
old.
I was a liquor buyer forWalmart at 20 years old.
Pretty fun job.
So I was the term wasreplenishment manager.
(09:51):
I was responsible forpurchasing and replenishing
liquor stock for over 600 Sam'sclubs across the country and I
was really good at it.
I was really good at good at myjob.
I made good money not greatmoney, but decent money for a
22-year-old.
I lived a very peaceful and coollife in Bentonville, arkansas,
(10:13):
but I hated my job.
I hated it.
I hated corporate America.
From probably the 31st day itwas really cool.
Until every day I walked intowork at seven, eight o'clock in
the morning and I'm just like,why am I here?
I didn't feel any purpose inlife and I have learned quickly.
(10:34):
The reason I was there inBenville was to meet my wife.
I met my wife in Benville,arkansas, the summer.
I decided to leave and we arestill married today.
And we started dating inBenville and we are still
married today.
Um, and and we started datingthen in benville and we were
married today, but I at the timeI could not tell you why I was
in benville, arkansas, so I wentto lunch with a, a mentor of
(10:54):
mine and frat brother, uh, whowas in the legal department at
in at walmart storesincorporated, and he was asking
me hey, what do you really wantto do in life?
What do you, what, what, whatare your?
What are your real goals like?
Do you really want, do you want, to stay here in walmart
forever?
And I'll tell them no, I wantto get into politics.
I'm just here to make money andlearn how, learn how to run a
company.
Man, I want to, or maybe makesome quite a bit of money and
(11:16):
then run for office.
And this uh brother changed mylife and was having saying he
said, michael, you Quit now.
He said get out of here.
He said get out of here rightnow.
He said you don't want to getstuck in Benville.
He said you don't want to meetsome lady you don't have, you're
not married, don't have kids,don't get stuck.
Do what you want to do rightnow, do your purpose.
(11:36):
And that really resonated withme.
And so when I got back to mydesk that day, I decided I
prayed about it in my desk thatday.
I decided, I prayed about it inmy desk and I was.
I was driven to, to, to, topursue that and kind of the plan
that came to me from thismentor was that, hey, if you got
(11:58):
, if you just got, to govolunteer and be an intern in a
campaign, go back home and dothat.
If you're going to be a staffer, go back home and do that.
If you want to go to graduateschool, just go to graduate
school or something like that,go and do that.
So I pursued research, allthree of those avenues, and I
kind of did all three.
So I actually applied tograduate school, first at the
(12:18):
University of Missouri, which is30 minutes from the state
Capitol and has a lot ofconnections to the state Capitol
in Columbia, missouri, and Igot accepted to graduate school
for a master's in publicadministration and I got a full
scholarship for graduate school.
So I applied that day and Ifound out a few months later I
got a full ride tuition andscholarship to graduate school.
(12:42):
When I was in graduate school Istarted out in politics as an
intern.
I decided that I wanted to dograduate school differently than
I did undergrad and undergrad.
I was very involved on campus.
I was some people could call meone.
I wouldn't say I was, but it'sone of the men on campus, one of
the big guys on campus.
But I said, this time I want tobe just as involved off the
(13:05):
campus as I was on campus andcommunity relationships uh, like
I as well as on-campusrelationships.
So I was able to do that, uh,by being an intern in the state
legislature.
So I started out as a gradstudent and an intern in
Missouri State House.
I worked for the staterepresentative that represented
the University of Missouri andhad a blast I.
(13:28):
I originally wanted to go backhome and run for local politics
as a city council person, but Ifell in love with state politics
at 23.
And my state representative,who I was working with, she fell
in love with me.
So she actually, at the end ofmy internship her current
staffer was leaving to pursueanother job opportunity.
(13:50):
She asked me to work for her tobe her legislative assistant.
Well, a little bit of that.
She asked me at the time whatdo you want to do when you
graduate?
I said I want to run for office.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
I want to be a state representative.
I said I want to go back home.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Just go back home and be a city councilman.
I want to be up here.
She said, well, representative.
I said I want to go back home.
Just go back home and be a citycouncilman.
I want to be up here.
She said, well, I'm helping youdo that.
I want to hire you as my aid.
So then I became stafford um,great job.
I almost loved that.
So I served uh elected officialfor two years uh in jefferson
city and learned everythingabout the state capital and
about, and everything aboutbeing a good uh state elected
(14:26):
official.
And, as God would have it, myhome district in St Louis
Missouri for staterepresentative opened up in 2011
through redistricting throughthe whole state.
There was nobody running forthe place where I grew up in St
Louis Missouri and, as fatewould have it too, there were a
(14:49):
couple state representatives whowere looking for someone to run
in that space, and they askedme if I was interested in
running, and I was just heavensent.
So I said yes.
I said let me look it up firstand research see if I can win,
and I did.
And a month later, I said, yeah, I want to run in this.
(15:10):
And the rest is history.
And since, when it came to mewinning that race, it was.
I went from in Bentonville,arkansas, at the lunch with my
friend, to becoming an actualelected official within a span
of three years, and that wasjust truly a blessing, not
something that I thought wouldoccur when I was having that
(15:30):
lunch.
So yeah, ever since then, I wasvery successful as a young
state legislator.
I was 26 years old when I firstgot elected to the state house.
I thought I knew a lot and.
I didn't know a lot, but at thesame time I do look back as a
39-year-old now.
Lot I knew I was, but at thesame time I do look back and, as
a 39 year old now, like man, Iwas young and making some
(15:53):
mistakes.
I did a lot of things right,but I also did quite a few
things that I wish I could, thatI wish youth had, that the
experience had of overcame myyouth but at the same time I was
very successful as a statelegislator.
The things I learned incorporate America and in college
and the things that my fatherand my mother instilled in me as
(16:14):
a child led to me becoming oneof the youngest members of
leadership in the state house.
I was elected to be the caucuschair of the Democratic caucus
at age 30.
So other leaders chose me tolead them in the Democratic
caucus and I was very successfulto in a sense change the way
(16:36):
some of the things in our caucuswere run and lead leaders at a
young age but at the same timeto get to work through the
position I'm in now.
I got married and had thosekids and my friend knew what
happened and in that last termI'll never forget beginning of
(16:58):
that last term.
I'm in my dream job and I livedin St Louis.
The state capitol is inJefferson City and most
politicians state level orcongressional politicians have
to travel away from home inorder to do their job in their
state capitol.
It's a sacrifice that you make.
My daughter was just turningthree years old and she was old
(17:20):
enough to talk at the time andI'll never forget on a Monday
when I was leaving town to go tothe state capitol that week to
be gone for about five days, mydaughter looks up at me and she
says Daddy, are you leavingagain?
And that's when it hit me thatI worked in a different city
than I lived in, away from myfamily, and while I had a really
(17:41):
good last two years inlegislature, my family life was
not good and my you know itreally affected how I even felt
about what was my dream job.
It was harder and harder todrive those two hours to get to
the state capitol every week.
So I decided to run for a morelocal office to really stretch
(18:04):
my master's degree in publicadministration, because I asked
the legislative branch to be anexecutive branch office as well
as allow myself to be closer tofamily, which became more
important to me at the time andstill is so.
I ran for office in 2018 as arecorder of deeds for the city
(18:26):
of St Louis and within six tonine months, I was elected as
the first African-Americanperson ever in the history of
our state to be elected as arecorder of deeds in the state.
There are over a hundredcounties in our state and I'm
the first electedAfrican-American.
There's been a couple appointed, but I'm the first one ever in
all the counties in our state tobe elected um, as well as, of
(18:49):
course, the first one ever in mycity to be an african.
Mariner's position had neverbeen held by an african-american
in the past and since then,I've just transformed the office
to uh, to be moreforward-thinking, to be to come
to the 21st century and I liketo say, in some ways, the the
22nd century.
We're utilizing online servicesand artificial intelligence and
(19:13):
better customer service than anyother office in our state and
right now, we're the highestrated government office in the
entire state and, quite frankly,we're still not satisfied and
we want to keep pushing that alittle further and save the city
some money and give ourcitizens better services, and I
found that service doesn't haveto be, doesn't have equal fame
(19:37):
or equal something that gets youin the news every day, but it's
something that you, thatdedication I had for service
from when I was a kid, issomething that just makes
someone's life a little easierand reduces the amount of trauma
they may have.
And I've been blessed.
I've been blessed.
So my focus has went from justserving the entire public and
(20:02):
trying to change the world toserving my family and serving my
local community and changingthe world on that level, until
God calls me to serve at anotherlevel.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Wow, thank you for sharing what an incredible story
and as I think I got so manyquestions to figure out where to
start.
So initially, when I'm sittinghere thinking I don't ever think
I ever heard anybody like whenthey were kids and I want to
grow up to be a reporter ofdeeds, it's just not one of
(20:34):
those and, you know, think of itas a position that has impact,
but it must have a lot of impact.
So maybe just kind of share alittle bit about what a recorder
of deeds does and like, what isyour impact as you move through
the city?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yeah, the recorder of deeds.
There's a recorder or aregister or a clerk in every
county in this in the country.
My office is responsible forproviding and overseeing all the
land deeds of the city all thebirth records, all the death
records and all the archives andthe marriage licenses of the
city.
So any important document thatyou need, we are there to
(21:12):
provide that for you when youneed it, as well as keep it safe
for safekeeping to protectthose actual physical documents.
In the meantime, the firstrecorder of deeds in the country
Black recorder of deeds in thecountry is actually Frederick
Douglass.
The first black recorder ofdeeds in the country was
actually Frederick Douglass.
He recognized how important itwas to in the 1800s, how
(21:33):
important it was for AfricanAmericans to oversee land
records for folks in ourcommunity.
That was his first and onlypolitical office throughout his
life.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
That's so cool, just because you brought that up.
When I think of being able tocreate relationships, and be
around people.
I don't know if there's, youknow, I guess they say, like
with Kevin Bacon there's sevenlevels of separation and that
kind of stuff and can you findcommonality in people?
And sure, as a politicianyou've been able to find and
(22:11):
create relationships throughcommonality.
But when I think about like soI have a stepson and his lineage
goes to Frederick Douglass, sohe's like a great, great, great
grandson of Frederick Douglass.
And here now Frederick Douglassis the county reporter.
He was one of our.
I took him with us when we wentto Alabama.
(22:31):
We learned all about, you know,not just what the history books
say, but a whole bunch of otherstuff so cool that there's
always something in common.
So I guess, when I think aboutidentity and I don't know if
there's term limits as therecorder of deeds and you can
(22:52):
only do it so many years andthen you have to do something
else, but maybe kind of talk tome, because you said you grew up
in St Louis and it wasn't, youknow, not wealthy.
In fact, you said you guys werepoor, not wealthy.
In fact, you said you guys werepoor and then you get a
scholarship academically.
So there had to be somethingthat's going on in this
(23:16):
community that you're in, thatallowed you to excel
academically and for you tobelieve that you belonged going
to Huntsville to be on ascholarship and that you could
thrive there.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, when it comes to education, I don't.
I don't have this, I don't havethe sob story that some people
have, but like I'm not a firstgeneration college student, I'm
not, I didn't have to.
Of course it was expected of meto excel academically, but not
for the reasons, not for anormal, I would say, a movie,
(23:54):
stereotypical way ofAfrican-American.
My great grandmother has acollege degree.
My grandmother has a college, amaster's degree.
My mother is an attorney.
She has a JD.
On my mother's side, um,education attainment was an
expectation.
Even even though we didn't havefinancial uh advantages, we
(24:19):
always had uh, in a sense of wewere instilled us to have
educational advances in that ina
sense.
In a sense, I grew up in afamily that education and
intelligence was more importantthan money, and yeah.
So going to Alabama A&M wasmore of extension of what my
grandparents had.
(24:39):
My grandparents attended HBCUand met at HBCU, at Kentucky
State University.
I grew up in a household wherethe Crisis magazine was on the
table every day and I didn'teven know what that was until I
went to HBCU.
I was like, oh, this is theNAACP's magazine.
I've been reading this my wholelife, I don't know.
I mean Ebony Magazine was onthe table every day, I mean next
(25:02):
to the Bible.
So we were very and.
I got to that my grandparentsare educators, so they were both
teachers in the St Louis publicschool system.
So the education attainment wasnot even a question for us and
I but I but.
But getting a scholarship was achoice that I made.
(25:22):
That and attending HBCU was notforced on us.
So my mother went to Universityof Missouri Columbia.
She didn't go attend HBCU.
It wasn't a requirement to goto HBCU.
But when I was 17 years old,this little move I can't say
little this little movie cameout called Drumline.
That was started.
I really wanted to go toFlorida State University and by
(25:47):
the time I watched Drumline Iwas like I want to go to Florida
A&M and I decided that I wantedto go to HBCU, which in a sense
was in most cases our smallschools and our state schools,
and it opened up a world to methat allowed me to be able to
get more money scholarship moneyas well, be able to get more
(26:10):
money, scholarship money as well.
So now I guess what I saw wassuccessful parents and
grandparents who showed thatgetting an education could give
you more options.
It wasn't a requirement, but itgives you more options to
success, and that's one thing Itry to instill in younger folks
as well that I mean if you wantto go do trucking or do anything
(26:30):
else, that's perfectly fine,but sometimes you might be
limiting your options careerwise at the beginning.
Now let me add this to I'venoticed the older I get is that
the more money you can make at18, 19, you save that money.
Cash expands your options aswell.
So there's a way to, if you'renot going to go to college, make
(26:52):
sure you're saving your moneyand invest your money until when
you turn 25 or 26 or 30 or 35.
You have cash.
Cash gives you options as well.
But if you want those careeroptions, you can go to college
and you can go from one placeanother.
You can um, it does allow youto move careers a lot better if
you have a college degree ratherthan if you stayed in one
(27:13):
position and didn't have adegree.
But sometimes a lot of collegegraduates don't have that cash
that a lot of the non-collegegraduates have early on in life.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Talk to me a little bit about.
We think of.
You know associations andpeople that have been in our
lives and you talked a littlebit about a mentor that you had
that just told you to quit.
You know I've never heard itcalled Walmart Incorporated.
It kind of has a ring of youknow some of the, you know some
of the, some of the.
(27:49):
I love it, but you know, andsometimes you know say you are
who you hang around with, youare the people that you're
around.
I like to say sometimes you arewho you compare yourself with,
that you hang around with.
But maybe kind of talk aboutthat.
What are some of the people inyour life, the people that made
(28:11):
a difference, that kind ofchanneled your trajectory into
where you are now and theabilities that you have with
folks now?
Maybe kind of just talk abouthow important that is.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
That is very important when I think about a
lot of my mentors have mostlybeen from my fraternity.
I'm a member of Kappa Alpha PsiFraternity Incorporated and I
became a member in college atAlabama A&M University and,
(28:44):
quite frankly, I came from avery large chapter.
When I crossed, we wereactually the largest chapter in
the country.
I have to say that I had a lotof attachments and a lot of
associations with really smartand successful guys, because
we're about achievement.
In Kappa Alpha Psi, upongraduating, I had 120 brothers
(29:07):
who were in the same fraternityas me and then you know, about
30 or so pledge every year.
So we have a large network offolks who are connected and I
have some.
And what was interesting aboutmy our chapter is that we have
quite a few successfulpoliticians coming from directly
from that school chapter.
Two of them were in the statelegislature.
(29:30):
When I interned there, you guyswere a part of the group that
asked me to run for office.
So when I showed up in thestate house as an intern, I mean
, what amazing is to me that Ihave two.
And these guys were both youngtoo.
They were20-something-year-olds just
elected in 2008, youngpoliticians who really gave me
(29:54):
an advantage over other folks.
I had a long-standingrelationship.
I knew two actual young,popular state representatives
who were like oh hey, michael,how are you?
Yo, come have a drink with ushere.
That was a big deal forsomething that people usually
(30:18):
get.
Maybe they go to Harvard orthey go to Yale.
I got that by going to AlabamaA&M University.
Those guys directed me in theright way, of course.
They directed me to run in adistrict that was meant in a
sense was meant for me.
But after that, one person thathas and I gotta shout out their
name.
Those guys are StateRepresentative Chris Carter,
(30:42):
whose family is a legend in StLouis, and at the time, state
Representative Don Callaway, whois a legend in St Louis, and at
the time State RepresentativeDon Calloway, who is a media
powerhouse nationally here nowand is one of my really good
friends.
But they also I would say, theone since I've been elected,
another fraternity brother ofmine.
(31:02):
His name is Starsky Wilson.
Reverend Starsky Wilson, who isnow the director of the
Children's Defense Fund.
Name is Starsky Wilson.
Reverend Starsky Wilson, who isnow the director of the
Children's Defense Fund, hasbeen a tremendous person to be
associated with and to learnfrom and to instance.
Compare in a sense, when I metStarsky, he was a street
preacher for a church in mystate representative district
(31:25):
and, in a sense, a civil rightsleader here in St Louis.
He led a lot of the protestsaround the Trayvon Martin murder
here in St Louis and was adynamic community figure and
just a smart guy in a sense.
I really respect him and Donand Chris, because Kappa is not
(31:46):
the first thing people thinkwhen they see us.
Kappa is what connects us, it'snot what we promote ourselves.
So to be able to see him andothers lead past just the
association with such a boldorganization was important.
But since then he's reallydirected me in ways that makes
(32:07):
me a better leader.
He's a he's a reverend.
he's a non-profit leader andit's something that's connected
to community, something I wasinterested in at one point in
life as well, and yeah so thoseI like your point about you are
who you compare yourself to, ina sense, like you are, who your
role models are, like you arewho you who's your.
(32:31):
You are who your role modelsare and, uh, I, I like that, I
agree, I, I, I, um, and, andthat has, and I've been blessed
to have great role models andhave those, not even my family
or with my fraternity, and notwhile I have sought out other
role models and mentors and beensuccessful in that, and
sometimes unsuccessful ingetting those getting some good
mentors.
I've been blessed to have somenatural good role models.
I don't want to add some tothem.
Some people say you know theold term, the measure of a man,
(32:55):
and he wrote a book about themeasure of man and he has a a, a
historic quote the measure ofman is not where he stands in
times of peace, but in times ofcontroversy.
Uh, I have a different stand bymeasurement than martha king.
I say the measure he stands intimes of peace, in times of
controversy.
I have a different stand onmeasurement than Martin Luther
King.
I say the measure of a man ishow he treats those he doesn't
(33:17):
need.
And when I think aboutmentorship and some of those
guys who took me under theirwing, they didn't need me.
These guys were alwayssuccessful.
Quite a few of them are 10years or older than me or you
know they were heading ahead inlife and me more.
All three that I just namedmore talented than I am.
(33:38):
But the way they treated me assomeone that I didn't need was
changed my life and was veryimportant to how I treat others
too, because somewhere along inmy career I decided that I need
to treat everyone like they'rethe governor of the state of
Missouri and I found myself myfirst couple of years as a young
(34:03):
elected official being kind ofimportant and soaking in the
newfound importance and I had alot of.
You know, when you're apolitician you have a lot of
people coming at you or askingyou questions or calling you,
your phone's ringing a lot and Iwas answering my phone.
I was answering my phone a lotbut I was prioritizing who I was
answering the phone for, who Iwould interact with, because
(34:26):
that's what you do as aprofessional you have to
prioritize things.
But I realized that if thegovernor or the governor's
office called me, I'd pick up onthe first ring.
Oh, I got it.
And then it got to where I waslike, oh, they didn't call me as
much as I wanted to that year.
Maybe they called you once ortwice that year, which is kind
of be a big deal if you're 20something years old.
(34:46):
But I realized that all thosepeople that are calling me that,
that that in a sense I don'tneed I'm the governor to them
and it's very important that Iread that if I'm important to
those folks, I need to make surethat they're important to me,
and that really changed my, mylife in a sense, is measure
myself as a person as how howI'm in service to folks, and not
(35:08):
how I can use my relationshipsto just improve myself or
improve their well-being, buthow I'm in service to them in
every day.
And that simple thing ispicking up the phone.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Man, that's powerful.
I was just thinking, as youwere saying that, about the
people that I interacted with inthe last two weeks, and did I
treat them?
Because I don't know if there'sany.
Obviously there's severalpeople that I do need that I
interact with.
But then I think about thefolks that are coming to me for
advice or coming to me for helpor coming to me because of
(35:44):
whatever the reason is, and thenhow did I treat them?
And I love it.
I mean, I wrote it down so youknow it's gonna be something
incorporating the things that Ido.
Oh my gosh, and I love the factthat, uh, you were able to find
, uh, your preference.
I have, uh, I have a cousin inin texas.
His name is chris arnold, whichis like an original hall of
(36:05):
fame and he's like this famouson a daily show stuff and he's
kappa, and he told me that youknow, if there's anything you do
, brian, you got to play staffof you.
I unfortunately did go to auniversity or a college that
even had a remote offraternities and stuff, but had
I been to one, I would have.
I would have got lynched if Ididn't go, so I would have, and
(36:27):
he's been on my show and I'mjust so I'm thinking of all the
people he's introduced me towith the same thing where the
fraternity of brothers that makesure that they take care of me.
We're really happy in theOmegas here in Colorado and you
know when I get to see andinteract with a lot of, with a
lot of them and how they treateach other.
I want to shift focus a littlebit because it's something that
(36:48):
you mentioned that I don't wantto pass over because I think
it's so important, especiallywhen we talk about the persona
of what Black men are.
You said you changed a prettyheavy, intense job that was in
Jefferson City because of yourfamily.
It was that important to you,and so when I think about being
(37:12):
a dad and what that means to bea dad and we often talk about
how our kids we know all of ourkids absolutely need their dad
and every child should not growup without a dad.
If it's at all possible, howbig of an influence that is.
But sometimes we don't talkenough about what it means to be
a dad and who you are and whatyou've done as a result of the
(37:35):
importance of that.
Please share with us what youbelieve it means to be a dad.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
What it means to be a dad is a given purpose.
People look for purpose intheir life and when you make
children, then you have a, apurpose that you don't have to
(38:02):
question.
And, man, as long as we're bothprofessional guys, I've read
your bio.
You've had a great career andyou've done a lot of different
things and sometimes, whenyou're going through your career
, you're questioning, like, isthis what I'm supposed to be
doing now?
Like, yeah, I just set out todo that five years ago, but I'm
supposed to be doing this and Ido it already.
(38:24):
Being a dad, there's noquestion.
Like, being a dad is this iswhat you're supposed to be doing
.
This is this is supposed to bethe most important thing in your
life.
Um and I.
I'm very blessed to have twowonderful kids and and someone
to share um parenting with, withmy wife and I.
My wife is the best mother.
(38:44):
She makes being a dad mucheasier, um and but being a
parent is more about purpose.
So a few things led me to umbecome what I will, and it says,
become more of a family manthan a career driven person.
One was I grew up with uh halfof my life, yet childhood was
(39:05):
with.
I had a dad.
My dad was in the household.
My parents got divorced when Iwas nine years old, so halfway
through my childhood, and theother, in a sense, I was raised
halfway by a single mother.
My father was, of course, myfather had visitation and we
still know.
My father is one of my biggestfans and friends, but during
(39:26):
that time that was verydifficult for me and my siblings
.
The divorce was debilitatingfor some of my siblings.
They did not.
They still have not gotten pastthe trauma of that divorce.
But, more importantly, nothaving our dad in the household
had a tremendous impact on mychild and a tremendous impact on
(39:46):
me, and I vow like really, as ayoung person, I would never
want my kids to not have theirfather in the house.
And then I always reached backto.
There was a movie I saw.
I don't know when this moviecame out, either I was in high
school or college and I watchedthis movie almost every year now
(40:08):
and after I became a father, Iwas reminded.
This is where this, thisfeeling, came from.
For me it's a movie calledfamily man that stars Nicolas
Cage movie where because, uh, asa young kid you know growing up
either middle class.
Some parts, michael, later on,like we did become my parents,
got educated, became middleclass.
(40:30):
But either middle class or poor, you want to make money, you're
ambitious, you're like, hey, Ijust want to get on my
predicament.
And in this movie, nicolas Cageis a very successful Wall Street
broker and rich single guy wholives in Manhattan in a
penthouse and drives a Ferrari.
Through half of the movie andthis is the guy you want to be.
(40:53):
In a sense, he has a Scroogemoment where he is confronted by
an angel who gives him his lifein New Jersey where he would
have if he had to marry his in asense, his college sweetheart.
And at the end of the movie hechooses the college sweetheart
(41:17):
over his success for obviousreasons, mostly kind of the kid
thing.
Those kid scenes if you've seenthe movie, they're just amazing
.
So, yeah, I think at a younglet's say I was 17 or 18 or 22
when I saw the movie I was like,oh, that's what purpose is
about.
Uh, nicolas Cage had all thesuccess in the world, but he, he
(41:39):
felt way more purpose after thethree weeks of being with a
family and, um, yeah, I thinkthat that's what being a parent
is about.
It's about the natural purposesyou get, the moments that you
have as a parent that money cannever buy.
Money can never get you.
The time to parenting isimportant because my kids are
(42:14):
only going to get me in a dailyway for most likely 18 years and
I'm only going to get them.
My kids are six years apart for24 years.
So from the day my daughter wasborn to the day my youngest, my
oldest daughter was born theday my youngest daughter is
going to most likely go off tocollege, I'm only really
guaranteed 24 years.
It if me and my wife are don'tuh, lord lord, will this not
(42:37):
happen?
But my dad didn't get 24 years.
Let's say it's my parents, butmy dad only got 14 in the house
with his children.
Well, no, not his children, myoldest brother's team.
He only got 10 years to be inthe house with his children
every day.
So these are I look at thesejust precious times and my
daughters are just growing.
You can see.
(42:58):
You see the results in in beingparenting differently than you
see in a career, because you'rewatching something every day
grow, and physically.
It's like a tree is day.
Grow.
It's like a tree, it'sphysically grow.
They tell the best jokes andthe best stories.
Parenting is just a joy and anamazing part of purpose in your
(43:20):
life.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
It's only because you said they tell the best jokes.
They're not even funny unlessthey're coming from your kid.
Yeah, and they're not evenfunny unless they're coming from
your kid.
Yeah, it's so cool.
When some other person's kidtells that joke, you're like
that's dumb.
And then you hear your kid sayit it's the funniest thing ever
and it's so cool.
It's that feeling you get.
I can remember, like when myfirst son was born.
(43:44):
I had eight children when myfirst son was born and literally
, like you know, I I havewatched Roots or whatever, and
holding them up and going, youknow, behold, the only thing
greater than yourself and whatit meant to me is changing who I
am and then to see them grow up.
And so, you know, I'm fortunateenough to have seen all my kids
(44:06):
graduate high school, most ofthem graduate college and have
careers and have 16 grandkidsnow, and so I get to see that.
Can you know?
Now, the greatest thing ever isthose grandkids, and so, so
much that you have to lookforward to.
But one of the things that Iwould love for you to even go
beyond, because one of thethings they say is the greatest
thing you can do for a child,right or for you know a son or a
(44:26):
daughter if you're in thehousehold as a mother or mom
right to be able to have themsee that and maybe talk about
that relationship that you havewith your spouse that they get
to see as an example, that thoseare the you know people that
they're comparing right, theassociation.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Whatever people ask me this, I'd say that I'm sure
my wife would have a muchdifferent answer than I would.
I'm sure my wife would have amuch different answer than I
would, but I have heard my wifesay that you know I'm a
different person.
I'm much.
I definitely feel like I'm abetter husband than I was every
year hopefully every year, butdefinitely five or six years ago
(45:05):
.
I think your question was well,your question was just the
relationship.
How important is therelationship with a spouse?
Barack Obama says the mostimportant relationship you'll
ever have, the most importantchoice you'll ever make in life
and there's no doubt about thatfrom any successful person will
tell you who you choose to beyour partner and share your life
(45:28):
with is very important.
I was fortunate enough to knowthat as a young, younger person.
My grandmother and my motherinstilled that in me as a young
person.
Like who you choose who youspend your time with, as who
your girlfriend is, that's veryimportant.
Like don't, don't be goingafter these bad girls, in a
sense, because they're going towaste your time.
(45:50):
And I was a very ambitious evenas a young person and, of
course, I decided I want to bein public service at nine years
old.
I decided I want to be a NFLplayer and then own a business
and do all these things in lifeat a very young age and I was
lucky that I had parents whosaid, well, if you're going to
do that, then you probably needto be very picky when it comes
(46:12):
to partners and our marriage, mymarriage with my wife Erin has
transformed over time becausewhen I first got married I was a
very ambitious and in a sense Ididn't think I was but a very
selfish person with my time andI always had a vision of being,
(46:35):
of being a political animal,where you know the marriage was
about me and that my wife wouldsupport that.
That and she did.
Quite frankly, she did do it.
But there is no person who cando that for next four years and
not have some pain or sometrauma and over time.
(46:59):
And there's no person who canhave that arrangement as a man
or a woman and and be the theleader or the politician and not
become selfish or takeadvantage of of that partner and
no that that was importantbecause in a sense, it grounded
me and I had to make a choice atone point where it wasn't
(47:21):
ultimatum or anything, but Inoticed that my family was
suffering through my politicalanimalness and that my wanting
to be, share my time with thepublic and my family was not a
good enough balance.
I had to balance that a lotbetter and my wife really helped
(47:41):
me, help me through that time.
It was and was it.
It didn't look like it, Ididn't think it was the time,
but she was very supportivethrough those times and I'm very
grateful for that.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
So I guess you'd have to say that some of the
greatest women in the world comefrom Arkansas.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
All right, my wife actually from St Louis Missouri.
We met.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
That's a love story.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
We actually went to.
We both grew up in the city ofSt louis, uh, literally less
than a mile from each other.
We moved to different suburbanparts of the city and we went to
high school in suburban partsof the city which, and our high
schools, are less than two milesaway from each other.
We didn't know each other then.
Um, my wife went to southernuniversity in baton rouge,
(48:25):
louisiana.
I went to she's went to hbcu inthe south.
I went to school in the southin Huntsville, alabama, which is
not a mile apart, but one stateis over.
We both had that experience.
We didn't meet until we were inBentonville, arkansas.
We were in an apartment complexat a Walmart.
Of all places.
We didn't meet online.
I had to put some game on ayoung lady in Walmart to attract
(48:52):
this, the beautiful lady I have.
But um, no, she's not fromarkansas.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
There are some people , but the most beautiful woman I
know comes from st louis,missouri I want to just give a
little bit to to faith and wherefaith has played a part in your
life, uh, throughout the years,and how it's impacted you in
whatever way it has.
Maybe you can just talk alittle bit about what that means
to you.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Faith without works is dead.
That's number one.
I think faith is a part ofsuccess and it's shaped me.
My dad is a pastor, so I grewup in the church yeah, my dad is
, and my dad's a good preacher.
He's a very good preacher andhe instilled in me some very
(49:42):
important scriptures from ayoung person.
And then my dad, also in mychildhood, was not a great
example of faith.
At the same time Was not a verygood example of being a pastor
from time to time, and now he isa great example.
(50:02):
And so faith has taught me thatsin is not something me, that
sin is not something that'sforever, and that forgiveness is
important on both sides.
And forgiveness is a part offaith that we don't take
(50:26):
advantage.
In other words, that we don'tutilize as much, that we expect
quite a bit but we don't put outas much as Christians.
Most importantly, faith is abelief in God that most folks
don't dive deep into.
When I see my dad as a pastor,my dad is a Pentecostal pastor.
The only thing aboutdenominations Pentecostal is one
of the, let's say, hard beliefbelieve in miracles, kind of
(50:54):
denomination and when there weretimes where my faith was tested
and everyone doubts whether Godis hearing them or whether God
has their best interest at heart.
I had enough experiences as achild and as a young adult to
(51:16):
where I don't have to questionit for more than two seconds.
When I was a kid, I would losethings a lot.
I lost things a lot.
I was an ambitious kid tryingto run around.
I was that like kind of anathlete, so I would run around,
do things I never forget.
One time I was probably 11years old, I lost my wallet and
(51:39):
had a little money in thatwallet and you know living I was
really into projects at thetime so $2.25 in that wallet, I
needed that $2.25.
And one time I don't know if mymom told me this or not, but I
prayed about it and I prayed.
I was like God, just please letme find my wallet.
I need this money.
(52:00):
And I found the wallet withinlike 30 seconds.
I've been looking for it andthroughout my childhood I did
that quite a bit.
After that it worked.
Of course, I would do it againand every time I would lose
something, I would lose things,probably fairly importantly.
Maybe once every three monthsI'd be looking for it all over
and then I'd pray about it andI'd find it, and so that's an
(52:35):
example for me where, even as ayoung kid, my faith was shaped
that God is real and I haveexperience with God that some of
my other siblings don't.
I may also say my father was a.
As a Pentecostal, he was a, ina sense a healer.
There have been times where Iwas sick that my dad prayed over
me and I almost immediatelyfelt better and healed, and my
dad had that kind of faith andhe still does.
My dad has a physical kind offaith in Pentecostals, a
(52:58):
physical belief that God is withus.
We believe what Jesus said atthe last supper, that what God
had given Jesus he was givingall the apostles Some people
believe it stops at the apostles.
Pentecostals don't believe that.
We believe that that same thatJesus was saying, that that same
power is within us and everyone of us, every single one of
(53:22):
us who believe in Jesus and Icontinue that kind of faith
generationally from my father tomyself and hopefully to my
children- Thank you for sharingthat, one of the things I'd love
to know this is a question Idon't get to ask very many
people because many peoplearen't public service.
Speaker 1 (53:42):
If you were to give advice to somebody who is
wanting to run for office orsomebody who wants to live a
life in public service, what aresome of the things that you
would say is great about it thatyou should actually run into,
and maybe some things theyshould caution themselves if
this is the life that they wouldlove to have?
Speaker 2 (54:00):
Great, great, great question.
The things that are great aboutpublic service are that you,
depending on what positionyou're in or any leadership
position, you're really at theforefront of every issue for
folks.
So what attracted me topolitics and to be in public
(54:23):
service was that the things thatwere plaguing my city and the
things that give me trauma as ayoung, poor person, that I could
affect all of them, not just ifI was a teacher, my place is
just education.
If I was a preacher, my placeis really in the pulpit.
As an elected official.
If I was a lawyer, I wouldn'twant to be a lawyer like my mom,
(54:45):
just the judicial branch.
But as a politician, you'retrying to change laws and change
what tax dollars are spent.
That can each day be adifferent topic, but I will also
caution people.
That I learned later in life isthat that could be a burden as
(55:05):
well.
And me and my wife first gotmarried.
Our pastor and marriagecounselor said that one thing he
likes to tell new marriedcouples is that the thing that
attracts you to the person isgoing to be the thing that
annoys you about them later onin the marriage.
It happened in our marriage.
What attracted me to my wife.
She said in marriage counselingwas that I was a very ambitious
(55:27):
and, in a sense,entrepreneurial person, and
three years into the marriage,that ambition meant that I had a
lot of time away from thehousehold and was putting my
career over her Same thing aboutpolitics.
(55:54):
So having the responsibility ofbeing responsible for everyone's
issues and being able to fixpeople's issues can become
difficult, and then you becomeresponsible for other people's
issues when sometimes you havesome personal issues of your own
.
So I would ask folks not to be.
I hear a lot from folks thatthey're worried about their past
and negative attention.
The real thing to be consideredwhen getting into public office
(56:17):
is that the issues of othersnot just others of everyone
become your issues and peopleexpect you to solve not just
your problems but their problems, and that could be a big burden
.
Speaker 1 (56:30):
Yeah, it'd be hard to do, because you can't solve
everybody's problems.
You can't do that.
Some people just really don'twant their problem solved, they
just want to be able to complainabout it.
Speaker 2 (56:41):
A political mentor called me being a city council
member at St Louis.
He told me doing the impossiblefor the ungrateful.
Speaker 1 (56:51):
Ooh, wow.
Speaker 2 (56:54):
They asked me why I never ran for city council.
I tell them that quote likethat and there are different
levels where public service isnot as people are.
There are times when people arevery grateful, but some of the
lower levels direct people,political offices are doing the
impossible for the ungrateful.
And, yeah, it could be a bigburden, it could be difficult.
(57:17):
Wow, that's so cool man.
Speaker 1 (57:20):
This has been a great conversation, man.
I've enjoyed it so much.
I've been super selfish intrying to get to know you and
learn you and ask the questionsthat I wanted to know, and I
hope everybody else that iswatching gets to learn from that
.
But maybe just tell me a littlebit about you.
Know what you want to talkabout If there's something we
missed, something we didn't getto talk about.
(57:41):
You know how can people get ahold of you if you want to.
Speaker 2 (57:51):
I don't know if you want to or not, but maybe you
know, just you know from yourheart.
What would you love to share inthe last few minutes?
Yeah, I want to add that I knowyou take a trip to Alabama
every year, but I would say,either mix it up or add in the
state of Mississippi.
As someone who went to collegein Alabama, I've taken the same
trip.
You have the civil rights trip.
I've been to Selma, montgomery,birmingham, a lot of the rural
towns in the Blackville, alabama.
(58:13):
Some of my best friends arefrom Mobile, alabama, and
there's a lot of history in theBlackville and in Birmingham.
But my family is actually fromMississippi and we're from 30
Minutes.
My grandfather was born 30 Minminutes north of Jackson and
Vaughan, mississippi.
There's just as much history inthe state of Mississippi as
(58:37):
well and I've taken both civilrights trips there are.
But I will say, choose Alabamaas a good state, because Alabama
, in a sense, is where Georgiais, where in where I sense a lot
of success is portrayed.
Alabama, middle Road,mississippi, in some ways is
about the losses of the CivilRights Movement, about the
(59:00):
sacrifice of folks in CivilRights and some of the extending
circumstances from thosesacrifices that just resonate
with me so much because myfamily's from there and some of
that spirit is still in me, fromthe black men that sacrificed
(59:20):
their life in Mississippi.
And it comes to politics,mississippi was the most
powerful black state duringReconstruction, right after
slavery.
The first black United StatesSenator, hiram Nevels, was from
Mississippi and the first, oneof the first US Congressmen
Black US Congressmen fromMississippi.
(59:41):
And there were, and duringReconstruction hundreds of Black
men like myself ran for thestate legislature, ran for the
city council.
Black people immediately inMississippi started to take
power and built beautiful cities, amazing structures, um amazing
structure, political structure.
But they were murdered for it.
(01:00:02):
They were live meet myself, ata 26 year old I would have been
murdered in vaughan, mississippi, 80 years ago, 100 years ago,
trying to live out my purpose inlife.
And I think about those storiesof the most well-known civil
rights leader from Mississippiis Medgar Evers.
Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
In.
Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Georgia it's Martin Luther King.
In Alabama it's ShuttlesworthReverend Shuttlesworth.
In Mississippi it was a man whowas murdered, mcgregor Evers.
So I would just say I wouldlove to go on a trip with you,
but I would say let's addMississippi in there, and then
there's so much richness in thesoil of Mississippi for us.
(01:00:47):
So people can find me asMichael Butler on most of social
media sites or St Louis CityRecorder Vids or STL Mike Butler
.
Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
Thank you so much.
Thank you for spending yourtime with us today.
What a wealth of information.
I hope you look him up.
I hope you check out everythingyou can I am going to, for
those of you thinking arethinking about going on a trip
with us, I'm getting Mr Butlerwith us because I know he knows
the history way better than evenI could pretend to or ever know
(01:01:22):
to, and so if this is yourfirst time that you've watched
an episode with us, please behappy to turn on and hit the
notifications and subscribebuttons and all the things that
folks do in order to see thecontent that we're putting out.
So many good guests, so manygreat folks, that we just get to
understand their lives and whatthey do and how they do it, and
(01:01:44):
so I'd love for you to do that.
You see on the bottom of thescreen where it says
becomingthepersoncom.
We are launching a communityabout helping you become that
person that you were meant to be, what God put you on the search
to be in ways that you can'teven believe, and so I'd love
for you to be a part of that aswell, and so I can't wait to
talk to you on the next one.
Don't forget your God'sgreatest gift he loves you.
(01:02:06):
If you allow him to, mr MichaelButler, do you have any one
last word that you'd love toshare with everybody?
Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
I'm very blessed to be on the podcast with you, dr B
, looking forward to continuingthe relationship.
Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
Absolutely Thank you.
You guys have an amazing,awesome, incredible day today.
We'll talk to you soon, you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com