January 18, 2024 • 31 mins
In this captivating episode 139 of the Joyous Justice Podcast, a pivotal moment unfolds as April Baskin and Tracie Guy Decker delve into a heartfelt and transformative discussion: They unveil significant changes that will shape the future of the podcast, marking a new era in their journey of advocacy and growth.
This episode is not just an update; it's a reflection of resilience, the power of collaboration, and the beauty of evolving paths. As April takes a bold step in a new direction, and Tracie explores exciting endeavors, they invite listeners to be part of this momentous transition.
Filled with profound insights, personal revelations, and a glimpse into the future of Joyous Justice, this episode promises to be a compelling listen that will leave you inspired and curious about what lies ahead.
Links:
- Tracie & Emily's latest podcast: https://dtass.buzzsprout.com/
- For Lucifer fans!: https://lightbringers.buzzsprout.com/
Discussion and reflection questions:
- What in this episode is new for you? What have you learned and how does it land?
- What is resonating? What is sticking with you and why?
- What, if anything feels hard? What is challenging or on the edge for you?
- If relevant. what feelings and sensations are arising as you reflect on themes from this episode, and where in your body do you feel them?
- What key insights or strategies are you carrying forward and how do you want to weave them into your living and/or leadership?
Visit https://joyousjustice.com to learn more about Joyous Justice, LLC, our team, and get connected & involved in our community!
Join our online community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/590922415522750
Submit a question, insight, or topic or guest suggestion at https://joyousjustice.com/connect
Find April’s TikTok videos here: https://www.tiktok.com/@aprilavivabaskin
Follow us on Instagram (@joyous.justice), Twitter, (@JoyousJustice), or Facebook (www.facebook.com/joyousjustice365)
Visit https://joyousjustice.com to learn more about Joyous Justice, LLC, our team, and get connected & involved in our community!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
April (00:01):
You're listening to the Joyous Justice Podcast.
A weekly show hosted by AprilBaskin with Tracie Guy Decker.
In a complex world in whichsystemic oppression conditions
us to deny others and our ownhumanity, let's dedicate
ourselves to the pursuit andembodiment of wholeness, love,
and thriving in the world-- andin our own lives.
(00:23):
It's time to heal and flourishour way to a more joyously just
future.
Happy Gregorian New Year.
It is so good to be back.
I think it's worth informingthose of you who are listening,
which is most of ourlistenership who are listening,
(00:44):
that I am not alone on thispodcast.
So I can also let Tracie alsohelp me usher in the Gregorian
New Year.
And bring your voice on to thisepisode pretty soon from the
outset.
Hi April.
Hi listeners.
It's been a long minute.
Well, it's been a long minutefor you listeners.
April and I speak every weekstill, so.
(01:05):
Yeah.
But I'm, I'm excited to be backon the podcast today.
Yes! Woooo hoooo! I'm excitedtoo.
I hope you are too.
It's Tracie.
Tracie is in the podcastbuilding y'all.
So, and we wanted to take amoment in this moment of
freshness and newness.
(01:27):
As much as you vibe with that, Ido for reasons that might be for
another episode.
I'm going to try to stay ontrack here.
We wanted to take a moment toshare some updates.
as you know for since when,Tracie?
March or April, March, April ofthis year.
(01:47):
one, there's been like three orfour podcasts, and they've all
been me.
And moving forward, I am goingto be, so the big headline news
of this podcast.
this episode is to inform you,in partnership with Tracie that
(02:08):
we are making another update inthe ongoing evolution of the
Joyous Justice podcast and ofdifferent elements of Joyous
Justice, the Joyous Justicepodcast, formerly known as
Joyous Justice.
Juice Talk Racial Justice withApril and Tracie.
And in this next stage ofevolution that neither one of us
(02:28):
foresaw, or anticipated orpredicted I am going to be
moving forward as the sole hostof the podcast.
And likely as I figure differentthings out, have at times
continued to just be a solopodcaster as I was during part
of last year and also invite ondifferent guests and likely
(02:51):
bring Tracie back in any numberof ways for us to engage in our
April and Tracie magic.
Around racial justice, aroundTorah, around life learnings,
about social justice, strategicleadership, around anything in
the, at that time that we decideit would be fun to discuss.
So we wanted to inform you ofthat and share some additional
(03:15):
reflections and insights andtake a little bit of time to
talk about it together and shareour thinking with you so you can
be, brought in.
as Tracie mentioned, we've beenthinking and processing a range
of different things and alsonavigating, both aligned and
also divergent pathways,meaningful, challenging, in
(03:35):
different ways for both of us.
2023 was quite challenging anddemanding.
At least let me speak formyself.
It was the hardest year in myadult life, or in the hardest
year in terms of my leadership.
It was the hardest, mostchallenging year for me.
And I can let Tracie speak forherself, both around last year
and where she is right now.
But in.
(03:56):
Form that is somewhat atypicalfor me.
I didn't wanna bury the lead andjust wanted to share upfront
that that is an update.
And now I wanna give Tracie amoment to say anything.
If you wanna say anything rightnow.
And then for us to talk aboutsome of the, any implications,
answering certain questions orjust talking about this, and
(04:17):
also hopefully taking some time,although it's hard to take some
time, take some moments ofappreciation and also know that
we just.
Much of our appreciation hasalready been expressed through
all of the different 130 plusepisodes of Jews Talk Racial
Justice and Joyous Justicepodcast that we've already done
(04:37):
together and that Joyous Justicewill continue to share out that
material.
And hopefully now that we are ina different phase of maturity
within the company.
we recently passed our five yearmark.
We're no longer an infant or atoddler as an organization.
We're a kid who can walk on itsown and is still continuing to
(04:58):
learn and evolve.
And in that, in this next phaseof development, we'll see, but
I'm hoping to be sharing more ofthe content that we've already
shared and lifting it up andhelping make it more accessible
to you, to more folks.
And so, We wanted to just takethis moment to acknowledge that
things are shifting and also.
(05:21):
This is not a parting, per se,in the ways that one might think
of a transition at times when aperson is shifting from being co
host to no longer being co host.
Tracie, I'll pass it to you.
Yeah, it's like, the way I'mthinking about it, April, is
that, like, I was a part of theensemble cast, but now I'm gonna
be kept on as, like, a rerecurring guest character in
(05:45):
this.
In this show.
Yeah.
Yes.
Beloved in both roles.
Thanks.
Yeah.
I think that in our, in the lastepisode I was in, I talked about
sort of needing some space andthe things, 2023, I don't know
if it was the most challengingin my adult Life because there
(06:09):
have been some challengingyears, but it definitely was, it
was big and it continues to alot of demands which you know,
that's how life works and to usethe spoons metaphor that has
been popularized by some of thethe disabled community folks who
call themselves spoonies I wantto use the spoons metaphor,
(06:31):
which is that, you know, if weimagine that we have a number of
units or spoons that we get eachday to use on intellectual and
emotional endeavors.
And then once you're out, you'reout.
Life has been requiring a lot ofspoons for me, for a while now.
And the work that we dotogether, April, also requires a
(06:52):
lot of spoons, not in a bad way,it's just, it's deep and
important work, and I have feltthat I haven't had, yeah, I felt
that I haven't had sufficientspoons to do it justice and that
continues to be the case most ofthe time, which is why I'm
transitioning from, or keepingthe, not on the ensemble cast,
(07:14):
designation, at least.
For the foreseeable future.
Yeah.
And also, it's deep andimportant work that we do
together and I'm not, and Idon't want to give it up
entirely.
So, that's where I am.
Yeah.
And do you want to say, speakingof where you are, some folks may
know, but I think a number ofpeople don't know, do you want
to say, since you are such abrilliant creative, some of the
(07:38):
ways that.
You've continued.
I really love that metaphor.
There was something we werewatching or some part of the
text study I was a part of and Ithink we spoke about it about I
can't sometimes a book I thinkwe talked about it on the
podcast or I'm not sure.
I can't remember if it was apersonal offline conversation or
online About you know this ideaof unfurling and that we both
needed some space wanted to takesome space We've been really in
(08:01):
deep partnership and we'recontinuing that deep partnership
But in a number of ways we weredoing that before For where we
were both in a phase of growthand unfurling different things
and not being fully sure whatwas going to unfurl and
recognizing that we needed ourown space to do that and to
allow those things to come up.
And some different things haveunfurled and been seeded and
(08:22):
sprouted and blossomed.
In your experience, and I thinkit would be refreshing and sweet
to hear and, to have you shareand have us listen to you about
some of, those things that areexciting and feel good for you
to share.
In this context.
Yeah.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Yeah.
Well, I parlayed some of thethings that I learned about
(08:43):
podcasting from our worktogether to start a podcast with
my biological sibling as opposedto you as my emotional sibling,
my biological and emotionalsibling, my sister.
My sister, Emily Guy Burken is,brilliant and hilarious.
And so we launched a podcastcalled Deep Thoughts About
(09:04):
Stupid Sh*t.
There's an asterisk in place ofthe I.
Where we're looking at, we lookat pop culture, especially from
our childhood and sort of take adeeper look at some of the
subtext and the tropes and thethings that have become part of
our mental furniture withoutbeing examined.
(09:26):
And that's exactly how.
Sexism and racism and ableismand fat phobia all kind of get
like baked into the way that wethink and express ourselves is
through those unexamined tropesand stereotypes and subtext.
And so we're looking at thosethings in some beloved pop
(09:47):
culture.
So the Twilight series, theMuppets, Ghostbusters, the
Princess Bride, these kinds ofthings that from our Gen X
childhood.
Um, and others and we're havinga really good time and it is, it
feels, like tangentially relatedto the work that you and I have
done together, but requiresfewer emotional spoons.
(10:09):
Yeah.
And I was just about to saysomething about that, about how
Nothing needs to, like it reallydoesn't, but I am overjoyed
about the fact about how italigns so deeply with values
that are really important toyour choice, just as about
important, that are veryimportant about joy and taking
(10:29):
time for fun and connecting withour beloveds and engaging in not
only social change leadership,which you've also continued and
was honored for, for those whodon't, okay.
Know, one of the things thatTracie was up to in the past few
months, more recently in thispast fall, she was honored by
Jews United for Justice and gotthe Heschel Award.
(10:51):
Now, Tracie, can you remind meof the specific, the languaging
of that?
I know in part, it's alsohonoring the sacred, gorgeous
memory of Elissa Froman(z'l),but I, I'm not sure if it's the,
I know you were honored at theHeschel Awards.
I'm not sure if you got theElissa Froman(z'l).
Can you, yeah, can you help meout here?
So there were, there were threehonorees of the Heschel Vision
(11:13):
Awards and I had the namedhonor, the Elissa Froman(z'l)
Heschel Vision Award for 2020.
Yes.
So mazel tov again.
Just to kind of paint the fullpicture here and I like what
we're doing.
I like what's kind of cominginto being and then to focus or
maybe not even focus, but intothe picture here on this episode
(11:33):
that feels so on brand for somuch of our work together that
it's like a wholehearted sharingand painting of what's going on
in Joyous Justice Land and inTracie Guy Decker Land and in
Kohenet April Baskin Land and somentioned that just to say that
you've shifted and taken morespace and you're engaging, oh,
(11:55):
that's what I was saying, right,is that I was speaking about how
I love how, aligned, not that ithas to be, but how aligned the
work that you're doing with yoursister is with a core element of
joyous justice, which is takingtime in general, and
particularly when we'renavigating things that are hard,
right?
To still engage in joyous careand creation and, and connecting
(12:18):
with people that we love, thatthat helps nourish and clarify,
and it helps, is supportive ingeneral of us cultivating our
minds and our hearts to be inalignment with the ultimate
destination we're looking for,that I hope both is deeply just
and also profoundly joyous,right?
So I just, just, I think it's sogreat.
(12:41):
And every time you talk aboutit, and every time I get to see
the clips or listen to episodes,there's just so much.
Yeah, we have a really good timetogether.
We definitely have fun together.
I mean, we've been trying tomake each other laugh for 40
years.
So, you know, at least 40 years.
Um, so.
Continuing in that Guy Berkins'stradition.
(13:05):
And, and so that's something forfolks to know about that.
That a lot of things are goingto continue to be happening in
the joyous justice sphere andespecially on the joyous justice
podcast.
And that Tracie and I arelooking forward to figuring out
together the ways that she willcontinue to be part of the
(13:27):
joyous justice podcast.
And if you didn't already know,if at times you're like, Oh, I
miss, I miss hearing Tracie'svoice or like.
Goodness, I have all thisbrilliance and there's so much
sh*t and I would love to thinkand consider profound insights
and thoughts about it Well now,you know where you can go on Any
(13:48):
platform where podcasts areavailable to experience Tracie
If you really like tracingyou're like I want kind of more
Tracie But also a wholedifferent human with her own
brilliance and financialexpertise You get Tracie and
emily and Get to, continue toexperience Tracie's
metaphorical, analytical,loving, wholehearted brilliance.
(14:13):
Thanks, April.
Right?
And there's a way where some ofthat internalized oppression in
me is like, I don't want to loselisteners on this podcast.
And in this moment, as I'mvibing with Tracie, And feeling
the fullness of all that we'vecreated together and the mystery
and richness and sweetness ofwhat we may create together in
the future that feels like anillusion that fear, fear feels
(14:36):
like an illusion and and it'smore like.
No, this is actually a season ofshift, but also growth and
fertilization in different ways.
And I really hope that, forthose for whom it's relevant for
you that you can experience thistransition and this shift at
(14:58):
least partly in that way.
you know, God willing, neitherof us are, departing, and we're
taking up space in similar andin different and new ways and in
various platforms.
And so in the show notes forthis episode, you'll be able to
see you'll be able to get linksif you want to check out Tracie
(15:20):
and Emily's podcast.
They also have another fan, isit called fan fiction or like
fan?
fandom podcast about Lucifer,which we've heard about before,
but in case you didn't alreadyknow, Were rewatching Lucifer
all six seasons.
We do two seasons, two, excuseme, two episodes.
Okay.
So it is still very much like,it's, yeah, it was a YouTube
(15:41):
show.
It's now being released as apodcast.
It's very specific though.
So like, If you're not a bigLucifer fan, like, I, I, yeah, I
mean, you might just love tolisten to us because we are
hilarious and adorable personlistening to this.
It's like, oh my gosh, or whoor, somebody, you know, in your
life and you know, howphenomenal Tracie is.
(16:02):
So now, you know, okay.
And in future episodes as I'mstrategizing with, yeah.
Current members of my team,which I need to update y'all
about that, and with Tracie, Iwill be keeping you posted about
what's coming with the JoyousJustice podcast.
Exciting things, excitingthings, and meaningful and
(16:23):
significant things, and becausethey are meaningful and
significant things,.
I can't imagine doing all ofthat and not have Tracie
continue to be a beloved thoughtpartner and dreamer and
metaphorical magical maiden whohelps to bridge divides and
(16:45):
helps to concretize visionary,profound, deep concepts into
accessible ideas and metaphorsthat we can carry in our hearts
and pockets and purses andbackpacks.
I think that's about it for now.
Is there anything else that wewanted to mention, Tracie?
(17:06):
I just remember there was a notethat I wrote that I think I
basically already conveyed, butis there anything else that you
might want to say before westart to send people?
I want to express a deepappreciation for.
Um, all the time that we'vespent together and, and our
listeners and what's ahead in2024.
(17:29):
I think that it's, I mean, it's,it's really been, it's, it's
been really powerful experienceand, I want to have like the
perfect metaphor, especially forthe way you just built up the,
the way that I, you have, you'vedone them dozens of times.
I want to say hundreds.
I don't.
But.
I don't have it.
Yeah, I don't, I don't have onefor it just at the moment.
(17:50):
I have some things I want toshare so you might be able to
weave with what I'm about tosay, but I'll let you finish
your thought and then we'll see.
I mean, I just, I mainly justwanted to, you know, just say
how great it is to be back inthe, in the virtual studio with
you.
And, I'm looking forward to my,guest appearances in 2024.
(18:12):
Yes.
Yeah.
Same, same.
I'm looking forward to that.
And thank you.
Right.
I wanted to touch upon some ofthe appreciation, and say, thank
you for doing that.
And thank you for reminding methat just before we started the
podcast, I was in a place now,it's a different place that I'm
in now where I want, I knew Iwanted to do a podcast for a few
different reasons.
It really works with part of howI'm able to express My message,
(18:37):
my brilliance, my thoughtleadership, and I really needed
an exceptional partner.
I really needed a partner, likeI just didn't, it felt
unfulfilling.
And also too, I was in themidst, I was beginning.
I was on the precipice of amassive transformation, much of
what, which I've undergone inthe midst of us recording all
(18:58):
our episodes.
So I want to appreciate Traciethe ways that you've been a
friend and a confidant and heldit down.
Not so much on the podcast, butmore just within Joyous Justice.
As I've been undergoing repeatedsubstantial metamorphoses and
then reached a point where thisyear, an even more intense
(19:22):
metamorphosis that began by likea huge point of friction and
Shero's Journey moment where Ireached a real low point in
different ways and then justneeded to float for a long time.
And I love how that metaphor,like we were talking, you were
talking about that earlier inthe year and I just needed to
Let myself float and experiencea range of shifts and
(19:43):
transformation and also what'scoming up for me right now in
the realm of appreciation isjust all the various topics
we've covered and when we metthrough a program that I was
invited to be a lead consultanton, and, and our buddy Noah, our
shidduch, our matchmaker, youknow, was like, I really want to
(20:04):
bring on this person, Tracie,and it was in the moment, I was
just like, I'm really not into,I don't, I don't know, we have,
we have a really great thinggoing here, and thank God for
Noah, and for recommendingTracie, and then meeting Tracie,
and absolutely falling in lovewith her, and being like, can
she be in every meeting, andthen us beginning our
conversation, y'all know the arcfor those who have been
listening.
for a while.
And I'd been in the market.
(20:25):
I was like, I want to find a cohost, someone who especially as
I'm evolving and wanting to domy Afro Indigenous coming home
work and identity reclamationwork and weave that into my
leadership and being in thistender kind of mushy, varying
back and going back and forthbetween a butterfly and going
back into a caterpillar stage.
And in the mushy, Transformativestage to have someone to be an
(20:50):
energetic and intellectualanchor and partner as someone
with multiple ideas.
It was just hard for me tofixate and focus on something.
And Tracie has been such aphenomenal partner that provided
a counterpoint to my.
Expansive, like expanding out ofmy different awarenesses and
weaving all these things and howdo I hold that and then make a
(21:12):
coherent statement.
And now I'm in a place whereI've done the work and I don't
even know what the metaphor isfor me, but I'm feeling more
rooted and I don't have thatsame need, practical need.
For a regular partner although Ido need Tracie in my life and
want her to still be a part ofthis podcast, but I'm not in
(21:35):
that same place anymore and ahuge part of that or
significant.
thread on that journey was thework that we got to do together
and for me to have thatpartnership and support as I was
finding my way and stillremaining anchored to connection
and so the other piece that Iwanted to name quickly, and it
seems like you might have otherthoughts and ideas and maybe
metaphor, maybe not, nopressure.
(21:55):
You've come up with so manymetaphors.
I was not expecting you to turnout a metaphor.
I don't think of you as ametaphor machine.
I think of you as a metaphormaven and as spirit so inspires
you, you, a list, you know, aflower.
A metaphorical flower blooms andyou gift us with them.
And I thought I was good withmetaphors and I am great with
metaphors, but you are ametaphor maven.
The other piece that I want tosay and just appreciate to your
(22:17):
point about appreciating ourlisteners and our community is,
I can't even remember, I think Imight have mentioned it, but I
just want to appreciate All thedifferent folks who have shared
episodes who have been loyallisteners consistently have
listened to nearly everyepisode.
I want to love and appreciateyou up until this point.
And I hope you continue to joinus and also perhaps expand your
(22:41):
podcast repertoire and get somejoy from two socially conscious,
thoughtful, brilliant Jewishwomen.
That being Tracie and Emily,that wasn't obvious.
And I wanted to appreciate thatthere.
There's more that I canappreciate.
You know, the list is so long Ican't cover it all, but some
things I want to touch upon isone of our listeners was a staff
(23:02):
member and or is a staff memberat a Holocaust Museum and ran
study groups and discussiongroups based upon our podcast.
A number of y'all did this and Ispecifically remember that
person.
Some of you like our buddies atT'ruah recently shared one of
our episodes, one of our Jewishholiday episodes, and wove it
into their social justiceHanukkah theme.
(23:23):
And various other organizationshave included various episodes
of the Jews Talk Racial Justiceand Joyous Justice Podcast in
curricula.
that they've written, andthere's just so many, and we've
had so many insights andhealings and, and I think our
conversations have offeredinsights and reframes and I just
want to take a moment to, thankyou Tracie for reminding me to
(23:47):
appreciate that and celebrateThat we have a number of super
popular podcast episodes fromthe holidays, from the high
holidays, from Passover one ofTracie's best metaphors about
how Judaism and Jews and antiJewish oppression is both a
particle and a wave we've justcovered a lot of ground thus
(24:07):
far, and I'm excited for us tocover more and for me to lead
the way in covering more andbranching out and continuing to
cover some of the kinds ofthemes we've covered to date and
also perhaps covering more indifferent ways and doing so in
ongoing but shifted in nature,partnership and collaboration
(24:29):
and co conspiratorship with mybeloved friend Tracie Guy
Decker.
Now, oh, the one last piece thatI want to mention, in light of
some of the appreciation we justshared, or anything really in
this episode, but especiallyremembering and celebrating in
this moment of reflection, andin this moment of transition,
(24:49):
and this mini siyyum, but not afull siyyum of sorts, a closing,
a closure of a specific seasonof the podcast to date.
If there's anything thatparticularly stands out to you,
we'd love to hear from you.
Please feel free to email us, atinfo@joyousjustice.com.
(25:10):
If in hearing some of thesedifferent things and in hearing
the appreciation, if you heardyourself or if you didn't hear
yourself, but you know thathopefully you may feel that like
I'm also thinking of you too,but if you want to retroactively
be like, Oh, my goodness, as I'mhearing these things, I didn't
even think to tell you we didthis whole program, which I'm
actually think somebody did dothat.
And I'm just never around thisepisode, or this is this has
(25:33):
become a core part of ourprogram or leadership in this
way.
We would really love to hearthat and see if there's some way
that we might lift it up.
And also it would just be sweetfor Tracie and I to get that
message.
It'll come to me, but I willforward them to Tracie too.
And will also give us a sense ofwhat's resonated with you to
date.
(25:53):
And if you want to, no pressure,but also if you're, Also want to
speak to, I'm really excitedabout these different things.
We'd love to hear.
We'd love to be an ongoingconversation with our friends
and our fellow buddies,accomplices, allies, co
conspirators and kindred,beloved community and family in
this work.
If you did or didn't hearyourself,, please let us know.
(26:17):
It really warms our hearts.
Has been and will continue to bea labor of love for us.
And we're so excited for what'sahead.
And we're glad to be in thiswith you.
And if you've gotten to thispoint, thank you for listening
to Tracie and me.
And if you have any otherquestions, feel free to let us
know.
I think we've been prettytransparent here.
(26:39):
And I said to Tracie before werecorded this, and I also just
think it's sweet and it'sspecial to me.
It means a lot to me as someonewho's had both desired and
undesired transitions, that thisis a moment of transition that's
anchored in growth for us anddifferent ways that life is
moving or that life lessons orlife experiences moving through
us and the ways that we'renavigating that it's an
(27:02):
evolution in our relationship.
It's not a closure.
It's a shift in how we've beenoperating to date and me
shifting into the role ofprimary host and, Tracie will be
back.
And there's something that justfeels really beautiful and
poetic about that, aboutnavigating a beautiful, graceful
gray area where it's like, no,we're not maintaining.
(27:23):
What was because that doesn'tmake sense in light of how we've
evolved and what's what life iscalling on us.
And that doesn't mean also thatit has to be a total departure
or rupture or that somethingwent wrong.
That we're continuing to reachfor each other and be in
relationship and also givingourselves and the joyous justice
(27:45):
podcast and various parts of ourwork together and separately
space to grow and evolve andcontinue to be in conversation
as we want to be in conversationwith all of you and our movement
work.
And with you around what'shappening in your life and
what's meeting you in thisseason, in this moment, and the
ways that we can be of resourceto you.
(28:06):
So is there anything else,Tracie, you want to say before
we close them out with ouroutro?
Thanks for having me back.
Of course.
Always.
Always.
I love you so very much.
Love you too.
And we love you, belovedlistener.
with very little funding.
(28:27):
We're almost no funding actuallyfor the podcast itself per se,
or maybe a little bit frominkind donors, indirectly.
We've produced, by businessstandards, a very successful
podcast with a really stronglistenership.
And we've done that inpartnership with you.
And it's both understandable theway Tracie and I being so close
and intimate together and beingdear friends and Having gone to
(28:47):
mikveh(spiritual bath) togetherand having gone through a number
of professional and personaltrials together and navigating
it both separately and togetherindividually as those things
happened and as we've alreadysaid, we just.
deeply love and appreciate youand the ways that you've
listened and amplified thesharings of our minds and our
(29:09):
hearts.
And we're excited to moveforward together with you.
And hopefully throughout thisepisode in the ways that make
sense.
You've had time and space toreflect upon ways that you've
perhaps shifted in the lastcouple of years and the ways
that you're both moving insimilar and in different ways
(29:31):
yourself.
And hopefully this episode orperhaps this episode is like
maybe there's something that'sitching or like an inkling for
you.
And this and I think that thisepisode can hopefully offer or
serve as a balm and or a sourceof encouragement and inspiration
that we can move and evolve andtake up more space and it is
possible to have partnershipsand friendships that have room
(29:53):
to breathe and shift insignificant ways that I think
will ultimately lead to reallybrilliant, courageous
outstanding outcomes thatneither, that none of us perhaps
can foresee in this moment rightnow, but I trust that when we
give ourselves, Tracie and me,and also when you give yourself
(30:15):
the space to unfurl and move andlet relationships be in deep
conversation and also like, letthings move and shift that that
Makes room for more magic andalso positions us in the long
run to be able to have access togreater strength and
authenticity, which will only bein deeper service of our joy and
(30:39):
our capacity to work topowerfully advance justice and
love so much love to you.
Much love to you.
Tracie.
Thanks for tuning in to learn more about Joyous Justice,
LLC, our team, and how you canget involved with our community.
Check out the info in our shownotes or find us at
(31:00):
joyousjustice.com com.
If you enjoyed this episode,show us some love! Subscribe
wherever you're listening.
Tell your people, share whatyou're learning and how your
leadership is evolving.
Stay humble, but not too humbleand keep going because the
future is ours to co-
create.
You're listening to the Joyous Justice Podcast.
A weekly show hosted by AprilBaskin with Tracie Guy Decker.
In a complex world in whichsystemic oppression conditions
us to deny others and our ownhumanity, let's dedicate
ourselves to the pursuit andembodiment of wholeness, love,
and thriving in the world-- andin our own lives.
(00:23):
It's time to heal and flourishour way to a more joyously just
future.
Happy Gregorian New Year.
It is so good to be back.
I think it's worth informingthose of you who are listening,
which is most of ourlistenership who are listening,
(00:44):
that I am not alone on thispodcast.
So I can also let Tracie alsohelp me usher in the Gregorian
New Year.
And bring your voice on to thisepisode pretty soon from the
outset.
Hi April.
Hi listeners.
It's been a long minute.
Well, it's been a long minutefor you listeners.
April and I speak every weekstill, so.
(01:05):
Yeah.
But I'm, I'm excited to be backon the podcast today.
Yes! Woooo hoooo! I'm excitedtoo.
I hope you are too.
It's Tracie.
Tracie is in the podcastbuilding y'all.
So, and we wanted to take amoment in this moment of
freshness and newness.
(01:27):
As much as you vibe with that, Ido for reasons that might be for
another episode.
I'm going to try to stay ontrack here.
We wanted to take a moment toshare some updates.
as you know for since when,Tracie?
March or April, March, April ofthis year.
(01:47):
one, there's been like three orfour podcasts, and they've all
been me.
And moving forward, I am goingto be, so the big headline news
of this podcast.
this episode is to inform you,in partnership with Tracie that
(02:08):
we are making another update inthe ongoing evolution of the
Joyous Justice podcast and ofdifferent elements of Joyous
Justice, the Joyous Justicepodcast, formerly known as
Joyous Justice.
Juice Talk Racial Justice withApril and Tracie.
And in this next stage ofevolution that neither one of us
(02:28):
foresaw, or anticipated orpredicted I am going to be
moving forward as the sole hostof the podcast.
And likely as I figure differentthings out, have at times
continued to just be a solopodcaster as I was during part
of last year and also invite ondifferent guests and likely
(02:51):
bring Tracie back in any numberof ways for us to engage in our
April and Tracie magic.
Around racial justice, aroundTorah, around life learnings,
about social justice, strategicleadership, around anything in
the, at that time that we decideit would be fun to discuss.
So we wanted to inform you ofthat and share some additional
(03:15):
reflections and insights andtake a little bit of time to
talk about it together and shareour thinking with you so you can
be, brought in.
as Tracie mentioned, we've beenthinking and processing a range
of different things and alsonavigating, both aligned and
also divergent pathways,meaningful, challenging, in
(03:35):
different ways for both of us.
2023 was quite challenging anddemanding.
At least let me speak formyself.
It was the hardest year in myadult life, or in the hardest
year in terms of my leadership.
It was the hardest, mostchallenging year for me.
And I can let Tracie speak forherself, both around last year
and where she is right now.
But in.
(03:56):
Form that is somewhat atypicalfor me.
I didn't wanna bury the lead andjust wanted to share upfront
that that is an update.
And now I wanna give Tracie amoment to say anything.
If you wanna say anything rightnow.
And then for us to talk aboutsome of the, any implications,
answering certain questions orjust talking about this, and
(04:17):
also hopefully taking some time,although it's hard to take some
time, take some moments ofappreciation and also know that
we just.
Much of our appreciation hasalready been expressed through
all of the different 130 plusepisodes of Jews Talk Racial
Justice and Joyous Justicepodcast that we've already done
(04:37):
together and that Joyous Justicewill continue to share out that
material.
And hopefully now that we are ina different phase of maturity
within the company.
we recently passed our five yearmark.
We're no longer an infant or atoddler as an organization.
We're a kid who can walk on itsown and is still continuing to
(04:58):
learn and evolve.
And in that, in this next phaseof development, we'll see, but
I'm hoping to be sharing more ofthe content that we've already
shared and lifting it up andhelping make it more accessible
to you, to more folks.
And so, We wanted to just takethis moment to acknowledge that
things are shifting and also.
(05:21):
This is not a parting, per se,in the ways that one might think
of a transition at times when aperson is shifting from being co
host to no longer being co host.
Tracie, I'll pass it to you.
Yeah, it's like, the way I'mthinking about it, April, is
that, like, I was a part of theensemble cast, but now I'm gonna
be kept on as, like, a rerecurring guest character in
(05:45):
this.
In this show.
Yeah.
Yes.
Beloved in both roles.
Thanks.
Yeah.
I think that in our, in the lastepisode I was in, I talked about
sort of needing some space andthe things, 2023, I don't know
if it was the most challengingin my adult Life because there
(06:09):
have been some challengingyears, but it definitely was, it
was big and it continues to alot of demands which you know,
that's how life works and to usethe spoons metaphor that has
been popularized by some of thethe disabled community folks who
call themselves spoonies I wantto use the spoons metaphor,
(06:31):
which is that, you know, if weimagine that we have a number of
units or spoons that we get eachday to use on intellectual and
emotional endeavors.
And then once you're out, you'reout.
Life has been requiring a lot ofspoons for me, for a while now.
And the work that we dotogether, April, also requires a
(06:52):
lot of spoons, not in a bad way,it's just, it's deep and
important work, and I have feltthat I haven't had, yeah, I felt
that I haven't had sufficientspoons to do it justice and that
continues to be the case most ofthe time, which is why I'm
transitioning from, or keepingthe, not on the ensemble cast,
(07:14):
designation, at least.
For the foreseeable future.
Yeah.
And also, it's deep andimportant work that we do
together and I'm not, and Idon't want to give it up
entirely.
So, that's where I am.
Yeah.
And do you want to say, speakingof where you are, some folks may
know, but I think a number ofpeople don't know, do you want
to say, since you are such abrilliant creative, some of the
(07:38):
ways that.
You've continued.
I really love that metaphor.
There was something we werewatching or some part of the
text study I was a part of and Ithink we spoke about it about I
can't sometimes a book I thinkwe talked about it on the
podcast or I'm not sure.
I can't remember if it was apersonal offline conversation or
online About you know this ideaof unfurling and that we both
needed some space wanted to takesome space We've been really in
(08:01):
deep partnership and we'recontinuing that deep partnership
But in a number of ways we weredoing that before For where we
were both in a phase of growthand unfurling different things
and not being fully sure whatwas going to unfurl and
recognizing that we needed ourown space to do that and to
allow those things to come up.
And some different things haveunfurled and been seeded and
(08:22):
sprouted and blossomed.
In your experience, and I thinkit would be refreshing and sweet
to hear and, to have you shareand have us listen to you about
some of, those things that areexciting and feel good for you
to share.
In this context.
Yeah.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Yeah.
Well, I parlayed some of thethings that I learned about
(08:43):
podcasting from our worktogether to start a podcast with
my biological sibling as opposedto you as my emotional sibling,
my biological and emotionalsibling, my sister.
My sister, Emily Guy Burken is,brilliant and hilarious.
And so we launched a podcastcalled Deep Thoughts About
(09:04):
Stupid Sh*t.
There's an asterisk in place ofthe I.
Where we're looking at, we lookat pop culture, especially from
our childhood and sort of take adeeper look at some of the
subtext and the tropes and thethings that have become part of
our mental furniture withoutbeing examined.
(09:26):
And that's exactly how.
Sexism and racism and ableismand fat phobia all kind of get
like baked into the way that wethink and express ourselves is
through those unexamined tropesand stereotypes and subtext.
And so we're looking at thosethings in some beloved pop
(09:47):
culture.
So the Twilight series, theMuppets, Ghostbusters, the
Princess Bride, these kinds ofthings that from our Gen X
childhood.
Um, and others and we're havinga really good time and it is, it
feels, like tangentially relatedto the work that you and I have
done together, but requiresfewer emotional spoons.
(10:09):
Yeah.
And I was just about to saysomething about that, about how
Nothing needs to, like it reallydoesn't, but I am overjoyed
about the fact about how italigns so deeply with values
that are really important toyour choice, just as about
important, that are veryimportant about joy and taking
(10:29):
time for fun and connecting withour beloveds and engaging in not
only social change leadership,which you've also continued and
was honored for, for those whodon't, okay.
Know, one of the things thatTracie was up to in the past few
months, more recently in thispast fall, she was honored by
Jews United for Justice and gotthe Heschel Award.
(10:51):
Now, Tracie, can you remind meof the specific, the languaging
of that?
I know in part, it's alsohonoring the sacred, gorgeous
memory of Elissa Froman(z'l),but I, I'm not sure if it's the,
I know you were honored at theHeschel Awards.
I'm not sure if you got theElissa Froman(z'l).
Can you, yeah, can you help meout here?
So there were, there were threehonorees of the Heschel Vision
(11:13):
Awards and I had the namedhonor, the Elissa Froman(z'l)
Heschel Vision Award for 2020.
Yes.
So mazel tov again.
Just to kind of paint the fullpicture here and I like what
we're doing.
I like what's kind of cominginto being and then to focus or
maybe not even focus, but intothe picture here on this episode
(11:33):
that feels so on brand for somuch of our work together that
it's like a wholehearted sharingand painting of what's going on
in Joyous Justice Land and inTracie Guy Decker Land and in
Kohenet April Baskin Land and somentioned that just to say that
you've shifted and taken morespace and you're engaging, oh,
(11:55):
that's what I was saying, right,is that I was speaking about how
I love how, aligned, not that ithas to be, but how aligned the
work that you're doing with yoursister is with a core element of
joyous justice, which is takingtime in general, and
particularly when we'renavigating things that are hard,
right?
To still engage in joyous careand creation and, and connecting
(12:18):
with people that we love, thatthat helps nourish and clarify,
and it helps, is supportive ingeneral of us cultivating our
minds and our hearts to be inalignment with the ultimate
destination we're looking for,that I hope both is deeply just
and also profoundly joyous,right?
So I just, just, I think it's sogreat.
(12:41):
And every time you talk aboutit, and every time I get to see
the clips or listen to episodes,there's just so much.
Yeah, we have a really good timetogether.
We definitely have fun together.
I mean, we've been trying tomake each other laugh for 40
years.
So, you know, at least 40 years.
Um, so.
Continuing in that Guy Berkins'stradition.
(13:05):
And, and so that's something forfolks to know about that.
That a lot of things are goingto continue to be happening in
the joyous justice sphere andespecially on the joyous justice
podcast.
And that Tracie and I arelooking forward to figuring out
together the ways that she willcontinue to be part of the
(13:27):
joyous justice podcast.
And if you didn't already know,if at times you're like, Oh, I
miss, I miss hearing Tracie'svoice or like.
Goodness, I have all thisbrilliance and there's so much
sh*t and I would love to thinkand consider profound insights
and thoughts about it Well now,you know where you can go on Any
(13:48):
platform where podcasts areavailable to experience Tracie
If you really like tracingyou're like I want kind of more
Tracie But also a wholedifferent human with her own
brilliance and financialexpertise You get Tracie and
emily and Get to, continue toexperience Tracie's
metaphorical, analytical,loving, wholehearted brilliance.
(14:13):
Thanks, April.
Right?
And there's a way where some ofthat internalized oppression in
me is like, I don't want to loselisteners on this podcast.
And in this moment, as I'mvibing with Tracie, And feeling
the fullness of all that we'vecreated together and the mystery
and richness and sweetness ofwhat we may create together in
the future that feels like anillusion that fear, fear feels
(14:36):
like an illusion and and it'smore like.
No, this is actually a season ofshift, but also growth and
fertilization in different ways.
And I really hope that, forthose for whom it's relevant for
you that you can experience thistransition and this shift at
(14:58):
least partly in that way.
you know, God willing, neitherof us are, departing, and we're
taking up space in similar andin different and new ways and in
various platforms.
And so in the show notes forthis episode, you'll be able to
see you'll be able to get linksif you want to check out Tracie
(15:20):
and Emily's podcast.
They also have another fan, isit called fan fiction or like
fan?
fandom podcast about Lucifer,which we've heard about before,
but in case you didn't alreadyknow, Were rewatching Lucifer
all six seasons.
We do two seasons, two, excuseme, two episodes.
Okay.
So it is still very much like,it's, yeah, it was a YouTube
(15:41):
show.
It's now being released as apodcast.
It's very specific though.
So like, If you're not a bigLucifer fan, like, I, I, yeah, I
mean, you might just love tolisten to us because we are
hilarious and adorable personlistening to this.
It's like, oh my gosh, or whoor, somebody, you know, in your
life and you know, howphenomenal Tracie is.
(16:02):
So now, you know, okay.
And in future episodes as I'mstrategizing with, yeah.
Current members of my team,which I need to update y'all
about that, and with Tracie, Iwill be keeping you posted about
what's coming with the JoyousJustice podcast.
Exciting things, excitingthings, and meaningful and
(16:23):
significant things, and becausethey are meaningful and
significant things,.
I can't imagine doing all ofthat and not have Tracie
continue to be a beloved thoughtpartner and dreamer and
metaphorical magical maiden whohelps to bridge divides and
(16:45):
helps to concretize visionary,profound, deep concepts into
accessible ideas and metaphorsthat we can carry in our hearts
and pockets and purses andbackpacks.
I think that's about it for now.
Is there anything else that wewanted to mention, Tracie?
(17:06):
I just remember there was a notethat I wrote that I think I
basically already conveyed, butis there anything else that you
might want to say before westart to send people?
I want to express a deepappreciation for.
Um, all the time that we'vespent together and, and our
listeners and what's ahead in2024.
(17:29):
I think that it's, I mean, it's,it's really been, it's, it's
been really powerful experienceand, I want to have like the
perfect metaphor, especially forthe way you just built up the,
the way that I, you have, you'vedone them dozens of times.
I want to say hundreds.
I don't.
But.
I don't have it.
Yeah, I don't, I don't have onefor it just at the moment.
(17:50):
I have some things I want toshare so you might be able to
weave with what I'm about tosay, but I'll let you finish
your thought and then we'll see.
I mean, I just, I mainly justwanted to, you know, just say
how great it is to be back inthe, in the virtual studio with
you.
And, I'm looking forward to my,guest appearances in 2024.
(18:12):
Yes.
Yeah.
Same, same.
I'm looking forward to that.
And thank you.
Right.
I wanted to touch upon some ofthe appreciation, and say, thank
you for doing that.
And thank you for reminding methat just before we started the
podcast, I was in a place now,it's a different place that I'm
in now where I want, I knew Iwanted to do a podcast for a few
different reasons.
It really works with part of howI'm able to express My message,
(18:37):
my brilliance, my thoughtleadership, and I really needed
an exceptional partner.
I really needed a partner, likeI just didn't, it felt
unfulfilling.
And also too, I was in themidst, I was beginning.
I was on the precipice of amassive transformation, much of
what, which I've undergone inthe midst of us recording all
(18:58):
our episodes.
So I want to appreciate Traciethe ways that you've been a
friend and a confidant and heldit down.
Not so much on the podcast, butmore just within Joyous Justice.
As I've been undergoing repeatedsubstantial metamorphoses and
then reached a point where thisyear, an even more intense
(19:22):
metamorphosis that began by likea huge point of friction and
Shero's Journey moment where Ireached a real low point in
different ways and then justneeded to float for a long time.
And I love how that metaphor,like we were talking, you were
talking about that earlier inthe year and I just needed to
Let myself float and experiencea range of shifts and
(19:43):
transformation and also what'scoming up for me right now in
the realm of appreciation isjust all the various topics
we've covered and when we metthrough a program that I was
invited to be a lead consultanton, and, and our buddy Noah, our
shidduch, our matchmaker, youknow, was like, I really want to
(20:04):
bring on this person, Tracie,and it was in the moment, I was
just like, I'm really not into,I don't, I don't know, we have,
we have a really great thinggoing here, and thank God for
Noah, and for recommendingTracie, and then meeting Tracie,
and absolutely falling in lovewith her, and being like, can
she be in every meeting, andthen us beginning our
conversation, y'all know the arcfor those who have been
listening.
for a while.
And I'd been in the market.
(20:25):
I was like, I want to find a cohost, someone who especially as
I'm evolving and wanting to domy Afro Indigenous coming home
work and identity reclamationwork and weave that into my
leadership and being in thistender kind of mushy, varying
back and going back and forthbetween a butterfly and going
back into a caterpillar stage.
And in the mushy, Transformativestage to have someone to be an
(20:50):
energetic and intellectualanchor and partner as someone
with multiple ideas.
It was just hard for me tofixate and focus on something.
And Tracie has been such aphenomenal partner that provided
a counterpoint to my.
Expansive, like expanding out ofmy different awarenesses and
weaving all these things and howdo I hold that and then make a
(21:12):
coherent statement.
And now I'm in a place whereI've done the work and I don't
even know what the metaphor isfor me, but I'm feeling more
rooted and I don't have thatsame need, practical need.
For a regular partner although Ido need Tracie in my life and
want her to still be a part ofthis podcast, but I'm not in
(21:35):
that same place anymore and ahuge part of that or
significant.
thread on that journey was thework that we got to do together
and for me to have thatpartnership and support as I was
finding my way and stillremaining anchored to connection
and so the other piece that Iwanted to name quickly, and it
seems like you might have otherthoughts and ideas and maybe
metaphor, maybe not, nopressure.
(21:55):
You've come up with so manymetaphors.
I was not expecting you to turnout a metaphor.
I don't think of you as ametaphor machine.
I think of you as a metaphormaven and as spirit so inspires
you, you, a list, you know, aflower.
A metaphorical flower blooms andyou gift us with them.
And I thought I was good withmetaphors and I am great with
metaphors, but you are ametaphor maven.
The other piece that I want tosay and just appreciate to your
(22:17):
point about appreciating ourlisteners and our community is,
I can't even remember, I think Imight have mentioned it, but I
just want to appreciate All thedifferent folks who have shared
episodes who have been loyallisteners consistently have
listened to nearly everyepisode.
I want to love and appreciateyou up until this point.
And I hope you continue to joinus and also perhaps expand your
(22:41):
podcast repertoire and get somejoy from two socially conscious,
thoughtful, brilliant Jewishwomen.
That being Tracie and Emily,that wasn't obvious.
And I wanted to appreciate thatthere.
There's more that I canappreciate.
You know, the list is so long Ican't cover it all, but some
things I want to touch upon isone of our listeners was a staff
(23:02):
member and or is a staff memberat a Holocaust Museum and ran
study groups and discussiongroups based upon our podcast.
A number of y'all did this and Ispecifically remember that
person.
Some of you like our buddies atT'ruah recently shared one of
our episodes, one of our Jewishholiday episodes, and wove it
into their social justiceHanukkah theme.
(23:23):
And various other organizationshave included various episodes
of the Jews Talk Racial Justiceand Joyous Justice Podcast in
curricula.
that they've written, andthere's just so many, and we've
had so many insights andhealings and, and I think our
conversations have offeredinsights and reframes and I just
want to take a moment to, thankyou Tracie for reminding me to
(23:47):
appreciate that and celebrateThat we have a number of super
popular podcast episodes fromthe holidays, from the high
holidays, from Passover one ofTracie's best metaphors about
how Judaism and Jews and antiJewish oppression is both a
particle and a wave we've justcovered a lot of ground thus
(24:07):
far, and I'm excited for us tocover more and for me to lead
the way in covering more andbranching out and continuing to
cover some of the kinds ofthemes we've covered to date and
also perhaps covering more indifferent ways and doing so in
ongoing but shifted in nature,partnership and collaboration
(24:29):
and co conspiratorship with mybeloved friend Tracie Guy
Decker.
Now, oh, the one last piece thatI want to mention, in light of
some of the appreciation we justshared, or anything really in
this episode, but especiallyremembering and celebrating in
this moment of reflection, andin this moment of transition,
(24:49):
and this mini siyyum, but not afull siyyum of sorts, a closing,
a closure of a specific seasonof the podcast to date.
If there's anything thatparticularly stands out to you,
we'd love to hear from you.
Please feel free to email us, atinfo@joyousjustice.com.
(25:10):
If in hearing some of thesedifferent things and in hearing
the appreciation, if you heardyourself or if you didn't hear
yourself, but you know thathopefully you may feel that like
I'm also thinking of you too,but if you want to retroactively
be like, Oh, my goodness, as I'mhearing these things, I didn't
even think to tell you we didthis whole program, which I'm
actually think somebody did dothat.
And I'm just never around thisepisode, or this is this has
(25:33):
become a core part of ourprogram or leadership in this
way.
We would really love to hearthat and see if there's some way
that we might lift it up.
And also it would just be sweetfor Tracie and I to get that
message.
It'll come to me, but I willforward them to Tracie too.
And will also give us a sense ofwhat's resonated with you to
date.
(25:53):
And if you want to, no pressure,but also if you're, Also want to
speak to, I'm really excitedabout these different things.
We'd love to hear.
We'd love to be an ongoingconversation with our friends
and our fellow buddies,accomplices, allies, co
conspirators and kindred,beloved community and family in
this work.
If you did or didn't hearyourself,, please let us know.
(26:17):
It really warms our hearts.
Has been and will continue to bea labor of love for us.
And we're so excited for what'sahead.
And we're glad to be in thiswith you.
And if you've gotten to thispoint, thank you for listening
to Tracie and me.
And if you have any otherquestions, feel free to let us
know.
I think we've been prettytransparent here.
(26:39):
And I said to Tracie before werecorded this, and I also just
think it's sweet and it'sspecial to me.
It means a lot to me as someonewho's had both desired and
undesired transitions, that thisis a moment of transition that's
anchored in growth for us anddifferent ways that life is
moving or that life lessons orlife experiences moving through
us and the ways that we'renavigating that it's an
(27:02):
evolution in our relationship.
It's not a closure.
It's a shift in how we've beenoperating to date and me
shifting into the role ofprimary host and, Tracie will be
back.
And there's something that justfeels really beautiful and
poetic about that, aboutnavigating a beautiful, graceful
gray area where it's like, no,we're not maintaining.
(27:23):
What was because that doesn'tmake sense in light of how we've
evolved and what's what life iscalling on us.
And that doesn't mean also thatit has to be a total departure
or rupture or that somethingwent wrong.
That we're continuing to reachfor each other and be in
relationship and also givingourselves and the joyous justice
(27:45):
podcast and various parts of ourwork together and separately
space to grow and evolve andcontinue to be in conversation
as we want to be in conversationwith all of you and our movement
work.
And with you around what'shappening in your life and
what's meeting you in thisseason, in this moment, and the
ways that we can be of resourceto you.
(28:06):
So is there anything else,Tracie, you want to say before
we close them out with ouroutro?
Thanks for having me back.
Of course.
Always.
Always.
I love you so very much.
Love you too.
And we love you, belovedlistener.
with very little funding.
(28:27):
We're almost no funding actuallyfor the podcast itself per se,
or maybe a little bit frominkind donors, indirectly.
We've produced, by businessstandards, a very successful
podcast with a really stronglistenership.
And we've done that inpartnership with you.
And it's both understandable theway Tracie and I being so close
and intimate together and beingdear friends and Having gone to
(28:47):
mikveh(spiritual bath) togetherand having gone through a number
of professional and personaltrials together and navigating
it both separately and togetherindividually as those things
happened and as we've alreadysaid, we just.
deeply love and appreciate youand the ways that you've
listened and amplified thesharings of our minds and our
(29:09):
hearts.
And we're excited to moveforward together with you.
And hopefully throughout thisepisode in the ways that make
sense.
You've had time and space toreflect upon ways that you've
perhaps shifted in the lastcouple of years and the ways
that you're both moving insimilar and in different ways
(29:31):
yourself.
And hopefully this episode orperhaps this episode is like
maybe there's something that'sitching or like an inkling for
you.
And this and I think that thisepisode can hopefully offer or
serve as a balm and or a sourceof encouragement and inspiration
that we can move and evolve andtake up more space and it is
possible to have partnershipsand friendships that have room
(29:53):
to breathe and shift insignificant ways that I think
will ultimately lead to reallybrilliant, courageous
outstanding outcomes thatneither, that none of us perhaps
can foresee in this moment rightnow, but I trust that when we
give ourselves, Tracie and me,and also when you give yourself
(30:15):
the space to unfurl and move andlet relationships be in deep
conversation and also like, letthings move and shift that that
Makes room for more magic andalso positions us in the long
run to be able to have access togreater strength and
authenticity, which will only bein deeper service of our joy and
(30:39):
our capacity to work topowerfully advance justice and
love so much love to you.
Much love to you.
Tracie.
Thanks for tuning in to learn more about Joyous Justice,
LLC, our team, and how you canget involved with our community.
Check out the info in our shownotes or find us at
(31:00):
joyousjustice.com com.
If you enjoyed this episode,show us some love! Subscribe
wherever you're listening.
Tell your people, share whatyou're learning and how your
leadership is evolving.
Stay humble, but not too humbleand keep going because the
future is ours to co-
create.
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