April 30, 2025 • 47 mins
Jami Crist has lived through the kind of heartbreak most people can’t imagine — and somehow, she’s turned it into her superpower.
After four pregnancy losses — including a termination at 17 weeks, miscarriages, and a traumatic loss at home — Jami realized there was just a gapping hole when it came to pregnancy loss support.
In this episode, Jami shares her full story — from being adopted by her aunt at age five, to the patterns of instability that shaped her approach to motherhood, to the painful, relentless losses that nearly broke her.
But what she’s built out of the wreckage is extraordinary.
She co-authored The Losses We Keep, an anthology of stories from women who’ve walked the same path — giving voice to the grief no one knows how to talk about.
We also get into:
⚡️ What it’s really like to parent after loss
⚡️ The pressure to “bounce back” at work
⚡️ Why most companies still don’t know how to support employees through miscarriage or stillbirth
⚡️ And what Jami wants every manager, friend, and family member to know
This one is about loss — yes.
But it’s also about legacy.
And the power of saying, “Me too,” when it matters most.
🎙️ Share this episode it with someone who’s ready to feel seen.
#TheKeriCroftShow #PregnancyLossAwareness #TheLossesWeKeep #InfertilitySeries #StillbirthAwareness #1in4 #WomensHealth #MotherhoodAfterLoss #SayTheThing #YouAreNotAlone #WorkplaceSupport #JamiCrist #GriefSupport
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Don't say I've never doneanything for you.
Jamie Crist, welcome to theKeri Croft Show.
I'm so happy to be here.
We've locked eyes now in theflesh, in the flesh.
Welcome to the Keri Groff Show.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
We've locked eyes now in the flesh In the flesh, not
through the DMs, no, we are here.
And just quick background forall the listeners out there On
how you and I connected throughthis huge universe.
Isn't that wild, hilary Phelps?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I think Regan Regan was the one who was like you
need to meet Keri, and I juststarted following one who was
like you need to meet Carrie,and then I just like started
following you and and like waslike hi, I'm Jamie.
Reagan told me I should connectwith you.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Okay, so let's, let's let's rewind for Reagan, the
ultimate connector.
So you're right, reaganconnected me with Hillary Phelps
, yes, but I also connectedReagan.
Yeah, okay, so this is like thewhole thing.
So it's all about reagan, it'sall about you, it's not about me
today, listen, reagan.
We figured a way to make itabout you.
Already thank you so much forthe connection.
(03:11):
So you and I have been bondingand kind of rooting for each
other via the gram.
So for people who say you can'tform true connections on the
internet, I disagree because Ifelt it with you and then I
really will say when I saw youcause you never know, like, what
the energy is going to readwhen you meet somebody in the
flesh yes and the minute.
So.
So Jamie and I, we all haddinner last night and we met at
(03:34):
the Juneto, but I was going upthe elevator and she was walking
in the elevator and she turnsaround.
There I was.
The moment I met you in theflesh I this like very cool
laid-back energy where I waslike I'm gonna really like her
and then, as we sat togetherwhen I felt your vulnerability
but then your strength and justhow you kind of sit back and I
(03:56):
don't know.
I really I'm feeling it okay.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
I it's so interesting when we were sitting down with
dinner because obviously I'veknown Reagan for so long and
then the other ladies thatjoined us.
But like I'm like dinner,because obviously I've known
Reagan for so long and then theother ladies that joined us, but
like I'm like I feel like I'veknown you for years and there's
a couple of women on throughInstagram, that same feeling
like I've only met them maybeonce in person or just met them
through Instagram and I'm likeGod, I feel like I've known you
for years and it's just sospecial and to have that
(04:22):
connection with somebody like wewere talking about, like
surrounding yourself with goodpeople.
I feel so blessed to have liketo come to Columbus and be at
dinner with four other women whojust I vibe with and who uplift
me and just hearing, and likeI'm like holy shit, like this is
so special and I feel like somepeople never get that in their
lives.
But I'm like I feel sofortunate to be part of this
(04:42):
table and yeah, it's just what,like unlocking yesterday.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
I was like I just feel like I've known you forever
well and I and I, when westarted to kind of get into your
upbringing too, I think I alsofelt this like real kinship with
you.
I was like wait, that's where Isaw a little girl in you, where
I was like holy shit, like itdoes remind you that everyone
has such a story, like it's likeyour story and like for me,
(05:09):
having a tumultuous backgroundwith a divorce I mean it changes
you, it creates a fault line inyou.
But you you had an alcoholicmom.
You end up getting adopted byyour aunt.
So just give a littlebackground on that, because you
know you started.
You know, when you were alittle wee girl the universe was
like the seas are going to be alittle rough here yeah, and
growing up you just don'trealize how much you are going
(05:30):
through at that time.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
And then when I look back, when people are like, wow,
you've been through a lot, I'mlike, did I?
Because when I was growing up,like, I had my aunt and I played
sports and I had an amazingcommunity of people and coaches
and teammates and you know so,yeah, so growing up, my, my mom
was 29.
My dad was 56.
My dad was previously married,had four children who were
(05:53):
basically the same age as my mom.
So we like to keep itinteresting in our family and
you know, my dad had a heartattack at 50, or I guess he was
at 60 at this point and he wasan alcoholic as well.
And so my mom you know youngmom at the time and you know
there was probably some abuse,abusive relationship that I
(06:13):
realized later on in life aboutmy mom and my dad.
But, um, my aunt and my momwere best of friends, they were
sisters, and I think my aunt wasjust like Lori, like we need to
do something here.
Jamie's not in a good placehere with you.
You're not in a good place foryourself, let me help.
And I just my aunt is myguardian angel.
I, because I really do think ifI would have continued that
(06:36):
life with my mom, I would endedup in child services, um, and
probably taken away from my mom.
You know, now reflecting back,there was just a lot of trauma.
My mom went through that.
I still don't know to this daythat maybe have caused her to be
an alcoholic, but she justdidn't know how to get help.
And so, yeah, when I was aboutfive years old, my aunt took
legal custody of me, with herand her husband, and at the same
(06:56):
month she signed the paperwork.
She just had her first son, andso her son and I were about
almost six years apart.
And then she had her daughter,jenna, so me and her were 12
years apart.
So it's just funny, that dynamic, like I was the only child but
then became the oldest child andand then when I was about 14,
15, my, we found out my unclewas cheating on my aunt.
(07:18):
And it's so crazy because I Idon't you grow it like growing
up I kind of sensed somethingwas off and and I mean, I grew
up in a very small town, soeverybody knew everybody's
business and my aunt owned aflower business at the time she
had to sell it, she had to gofind a corporate job to get
benefits and just saw, just sawso much what happened to her to
(07:40):
become a single mom.
And this relationship to myuncle, who was like a dad to me,
like I completely lost trust inhim and just I just couldn't
wait to get out.
And at the same time, I stillhad a very good relationship
with my mom through the years.
She remarried um when I wasabout 16 at the time, and my
stepdad and her are completeopposites.
(08:02):
Like Like he didn't drink, he,you know, worked for UPS for 20,
25 years, retired from there,you know, he, they were such a
good balance and but I had mylife in Delaware and I didn't
want to like have to move toBuffalo with them and, you know,
start over and I was justreally keen on getting out.
I just I just wanted to live myown life and get out and just
(08:24):
be on my own.
But realizing with my mom'srelationship, like I knew she
was always there and we hadsomething special, but I just
always felt like I had to be theadult.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Yeah, Do you remember when you were five, around the
time when you when your aunttook you?
Do you have any memories ofbeing with your mom before your
aunt took you?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I, you know it's wild .
So, where we lived inPittsburgh, I remember what the
condo looked like.
I remember my dad's funeral, um, I remember the trips we would
take to my aunt's house.
I don't, I don't remember thefish, like the official move to
Delaware, like this was it, uh,but I remember those trips, like
going back and forth fromPittsburgh and I was also going
to Buffalo, cause my grandmotherwould come and help my mom as
(09:05):
well, so she would.
I would be bouncing around, um,all over the place until my
aunt was like no, this, sheneeds to be here.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
But you don't remember your mom being like any
situations where you're like Ifelt unsafe.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
No, I mean I, I was so young.
It's like those moments I don'tremember.
The only thing like that reallyI'll never forget and this was
kind of the breaking point formy aunt I found my mom's drug
pipe like in her purse in one ofher closets.
And that's what my aunt waslike Lori, you need to get out,
you need to go get help, youcannot do this to your daughter
anymore and I can't have youstay here anymore.
(09:37):
And I, I, just I look back atmy aunt of just she was in her
20s, like she just had her son,like her oldest uh sister was a
shit show and then, like hereshe's taking care of me too,
like I, I don't know how she didit the sports kind of.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Was that kind of like a escape for you or being an
athlete?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
oh, yeah, I and I was a very hyperactive child and my
it was like you were in everysport and I just thought for you
this would be such a great wayto have that outlet.
And I mean I still have greatfriends through playing since
the age of five and playingsoftball and I look back of just
my aunt with her business.
A lot of times I didn't haveher there at our tournaments or
(10:18):
games and having my friend'sparents kind of be looking out
for me on the field and off thefield on those trips and and it,
like I said, it was a smalltown so everybody kind of looked
out for each other for the mostpart.
It was really special.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
So your mom ends up passing away and you guys were
just kind of, you said,developing or trying to deepen
your relationship, which I feellike is just another gut punch
for you.
It's like, okay, what couldhave been?
Do you struggle with that whereyou're like what would she be
like now?
Speaker 2 (10:53):
All the time.
I had the weird feeling theother day where I was like I'm
going to call my mom and I waslike whoa, I haven't done that
in a long time.
So she passed when I was about32.
My husband and I got married.
We eloped and had like our corefamily there and then a year
later we had an anniversaryparty and the years of when my
husband and I were like datingand it was some of the hardest
(11:16):
years with my mom because heralcoholism got so bad that we
had to put her in rehab twice.
I would be at work but I waslike traveling all the time for
Under Armour and so I would justskip family, like visits to her
or my grandmother wasn't doingwell, so I just I never made
time because I just didn't wantto deal with what was happening
to her because she would lie tome.
She had two DUIs and it just um, it was just so frustrating and
(11:42):
her to not want to change andit was something I realized
growing up like she never wantedto change, to be my mom and to
take care of me and I felt likeit was the same thing.
Yeah, we, we kinda I don't.
I think she just realized howsick she was.
She had rheumatoid arthritis.
And that week, when we had theparty was just like, we didn't
(12:02):
argue, we didn't fight, she waslike under control with her
drinking at the time, and wejust had the party was just like
, we didn't argue, we didn'tfight, she was like under
control with her drinking at thetime, and we just had the best
time.
We danced to Whitney Houston atthe party, like it was
everything.
And then, literally a weeklater, she passed and it was
just like.
It felt like we were turningthis new page together and I
(12:22):
felt like my mom and I werehaving this great relationship
again and it's like it was gone.
And yeah, to now, like thinkingabout, I think about she would
have been an amazing grandmother.
Yeah, she was okay mom, but I,she would love these kids so
much she would spoil a shit outof them.
She would probably made mystepdad to move to Baltimore or
move to the beach.
And I just think, especially inthe moments my stepdad and I
(12:45):
still we didn't have like aclose relationship when she was
alive, cause he just wasn't like, um, an emotional type of
stepfather, and my mom was likehe just it's not a feely, touchy
guy, james, like he justdoesn't like to talk about his
emotions.
But something changed when shepassed and I was like Ken, you
need me and I need you and we.
I literally call him almostevery day, he texts me, every
(13:07):
day he comes and visits us and I, just in these moments when
he's with the kids, andespecially we, were up at the
house and like her ashes arestill on the mantle, like I, you
know, the house is still herand I see my two kids in this
house, I'm like I just can'tbelieve she's not here to see
(13:31):
this, you know, and toexperience with Ken and seeing
him be such a great grandfatherto these children too, like she
would be so beyond herself, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
And so, coming from this you know, just unstable all
in it, all worked out, but justvery unstable upbringing.
You probably wanted and yearnedfor your own family so badly,
and then for you to embark ontrying to have a family and then
to hit all of these horribleroadblocks, it's like why you
know no, it's funny, I I didn'tknow I wanted kids.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
And same thing, like with my husband, because we were
so career focused.
He was just starting startinghis business.
He left his other job.
I, because of my upbringing andwhat I've seen and experienced,
I was like, well, I don't wantto fuck my kids up.
I like don't want this tohappen to them.
And you know, I still I think,because of what I happened
seeing with my mom and then myaunt and uncle, I've always had
(14:19):
this fear like are we going toget divorced, something bad
going to happen to us and ourrelationship?
And so I just didn't want to dothat to my own kids.
So I was like, all right, well,I'll just focus on my career.
And then, when Brad and I gotmarried, I'm like, do we start
trying?
Like it's been a couple ofyears, like we'll give it a go.
And we got pregnant prettyquickly.
And so we were both like weright, we're gonna, we're gonna
(14:39):
do this, yeah.
And then, yeah, we we found outwe were pregnant in July 2019.
And then we I went for a scanat the 12 week mark, so it was
around like September, and theywere like, well, we see some
(15:00):
weird, something off a littlebit.
It just looks like there's acyst in the baby's abdomen we'll
bring you back in a few weeks.
And I was like okay, andliterally the next day they
found a lump in my breast.
So they weren't sure, like whatwas going on with that.
So I was literally gettingbiopsy done on my breast and
then at the same time had to goback to see to make sure
everything's okay with the baby.
I had a benign, everything wasfine.
(15:21):
They're just figuring outwhat's from hormones and went
back for my appointment and Ijust told Brad cause he didn't
come to the 12 week.
I was like, can you just comewith me just to be there?
Like it just it's weird.
I was like I just need youthere and we go in.
Lady, just, you know, doesultrasound.
She shows us the baby's face,we're excited, and then she gets
(15:47):
quiet and then she brings thedoctor in and this guy
definitely did not his likebedside manners whatsoever, but
he's just pressing really hardand he's just like, okay, cleans
me up.
He's like we're just going togo to this room down here and
we're just going to chat.
I'm getting cleaned up.
I'm like Brad, something,something's not right, this does
not feel right at all.
We go in this room, we sit downand the doctor comes in with the
genetic counselor and they'rejust saying we see something
(16:09):
very wrong.
It looks like your baby hasorthogryposis.
So, basically, the hands arecurled in and you can see it on
the scan that the legs weren'tfully out, it was like the baby
was sitting.
And they laid it out to us likewell, it was like the baby was
sitting and they laid it out tous like well, your baby may not
make it and if they do, they'regoing to need pretty severe
(16:31):
surgeries to help correct a lotof these things.
And we just don't know howsevere it is.
You know they're looking at thescan and seeing.
You know it's not good.
And then the genetic counselorshe had such better manners and
to explain to us and when thedoctor left she was just like,
listen, here's what we could do.
We could get you a secondopinion and just think about it.
(16:53):
I'm happy to get you in.
And so Brad and I were just andit's weird because we had this
discussion before we even gotpregnant Like if something
seriously is wrong, if we have ababy and and we have to termin
or make that decision orwhatever.
Like we're on the same page,like we're in it together, which
is so weird because we weren'teven sure if we wanted to have
kids.
But here we are at this tableand they leave and we're just
(17:16):
like this is what we talkedabout.
We have to see if this is evenan option, because I don't even
know.
Like we just didn't expectanything like this.
So the doctors come back in Imentioned you know, if we have
to proceed to terminate thispregnancy, what does that look
like?
They're like, oh, you can't dothat here we're a Catholic
hospital.
We're like, oh, okay, all right.
(17:36):
And I'm just in shock becauseit's like getting the news and
then hearing that it's just likewe don't even know what our
options are, what this is, howthe hell we got this ortho
kyposis, because nothing came upin our genetic testing or
anything.
So we go to university ofmaryland next day, get in and
the doctor there they were likea high fetal risk, uh, hospital.
(17:56):
And so the main doctor therewas like it does not look good,
like it's something with thecentral nervous system is not
firing up.
You can see it in the bloodflow.
He's just like this is not goodguys.
So we decided to terminate at 17weeks and so I had to go
through a DNC and I had a wholeweek to wait before we went
forward with the surgery.
(18:16):
So I was literally one of thebiggest events in Baltimore for
the city with running, and I wasrunning our running category
for sports marketing.
We had all these athletescoming in and to explain that I,
that we're not going to have ababy anymore.
We were receiving gifts.
You know, it's just so much.
And when people are like how'sthe baby, how's it going, you
(18:37):
run into people and you're justI just kind of like locked
myself in our condo and justdidn't want to come out.
And then we had the DNC and thedoctor did confirm that we made
the right choice and that gaveus peace.
But what I realized that week,it was just like, well, if you
(19:01):
want to go to work, you know,later this week you can.
There was just no anything, noresources, and I think that's
the beauty about community, ofother people reaching out to me
to say I've been through whatyou've been through.
I would love to help.
And one was an acupuncturist inBaltimore who went through
three miscarriages herself andshe just said listen, I heard
what happened to you.
I would love to help you.
And I just didn't realize, like,what that could look like.
At the same time, I had afriend mentioned about a
therapist.
So I go and see Marianne, who'smy therapist, up to this day,
(19:26):
and I didn't know.
I just never went to therapy.
And to think what we justtalked about with my background,
what the hell was a night intherapy, what the fuck.
And I sit down with her and I'mlike checking off the box, like
all right, I'm here at therapy,I'm going to talk about what
happened and then I'm going togo back to work because, like, I
just need to do something.
I can't think about thisanymore, I don't want to talk
(19:48):
about it.
And then she was like, well,who's who's supporting you right
now?
And I mentioned like oh, myhusband, my aunt, and I tell her
about my relationship with mymom and what happened.
I think that's when she was like, oh, there's a lot more to lock
here.
James, you haven't grievedabout your mother yet and the
relationship that you had withher and everything you went
(20:09):
through.
But now you just lost yourdaughter and you don't have a
mom here to console you.
But also the way that youdidn't know you wanted this
child, it didn't hit me until wegot the news and we lost that
baby.
How badly I wanted to be amother.
Then I had no idea it likebrings tears to my eyes because
(20:30):
I just was so focused on careerand work and like avoiding the
emotion and feelings of likebeing nurturing and then to see
to have something taken awayfrom you that you didn't even
know you wanted it.
Like, wow, that hits so hard,so hard.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
So what happened next in terms of pregnancies?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Oh, here we go pregnancies.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
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Speaker 2 (22:34):
So that happened October 2019.
And I mentioned about in thebook how you just get very
fixated of you're going to getpregnant again.
Here's what I'm going to do NowI know what could happen.
I'm going to get it earlier.
So we tried three months afterthat and then the pandemic
(22:54):
happened in March and soeverything shut down and I mean
I was pushing my husband likewe're going to have scheduled
sex, we're going to make thishappen.
And then I finally got pregnantagain in July and then eight
(23:17):
weeks later, I miscarried.
Don't know, we don't know why.
You know, it's just end uppassing at home.
And then shortly after that byso that was September of 2020,
by January 2021, I got pregnantagain.
Everything was going great.
My progesterone was a littlebit low.
I was like on it Okay, low, letme go take progesterone.
Like here's the test I need toget done.
And then we went in for the 12to 13 week ultrasound.
(23:40):
The same time we were waitingfor our genetic results, the
sonographer realized there wassomething going on with the
heart and I still like I knewwhat I knew then, but like still
didn't understand.
Like I'm like there's just noway this can happen again, no
way.
Like well, they take us in aroom, the head doctor comes in
we already know him, and he'slike guys, this is not looking
(24:01):
good.
And so we found out that thatbaby another, it was another
female.
It was caused by triplody,which is when two sperm hit the
same egg and it creates a wholeanother set of chromosomes and
baby does not make it.
So we scheduled another dnc andliterally the day before I was
supposed to, I was on like aboutto leave the house to go get
(24:23):
prepped for a dnc and it'sbecause the day before you go
and get dilated and everythingand I end up miscarrying at home
.
And that was one of the most Imean traumatic experiences I've
ever went through.
I don't recommend it to anybody.
Then we decided to go to Mexico.
We have a blast two monthslater and I probably yeah, two
(24:43):
months later got pregnant again.
I'm like, okay, this is it,this is it, this has to be it.
I go and schedule it early, goin and I see the screen and at
this point you know what you'relooking at and I see the screen.
I'm like there's there's nolike fetus, there's no baby Like
, and I didn't say anything butthat I could tell by the lady,
(25:04):
the tech, and she was like I'msorry, but there's no fetus, um,
and then it explains it's ablighted ovum.
So that was pregnancy numberfour.
This is almost June of 2021.
And so at that point, after twoweeks of taking basically the
abortion pill to help passeverything, I still had to go
get a DNC.
So that was my third surgery.
(25:25):
So at this point I'm just likemy body is not doing what it's
supposed to.
Am I having too many surgeriesat this point?
Is it going to affect thingslater on?
Just very much of like why me?
We escaped to Rehoboth Beach forthe summer.
I told my husband, like I can'tspend another summer in
Baltimore, I need to get out.
And so that's what we did.
(25:46):
We went to the beach for three,or not even for three months,
it was like two months and I wasjust, we were like at a
breaking point of like what dowe do next?
Before we try to figure outwhat was next, what was going on
with me, I got him tested.
I I mean any resource I couldfind online or what people did.
(26:07):
I would reach out and saywhat'd you do?
Like, all right, I need to getthat test done and and really
the unlocking was going to afunctional medicine doctor who
helped me realize like mythyroid was getting off like
tripling every time I gotpregnant and probably some other
variables with likeinflammation.
But I just told Brad I was likewe have to do IVF.
(26:27):
I can't, I can't go throughanother three months of this and
to get horrible news.
And then my body was justfluctuating with hormones, the
weight gain and then likefeeling pregnant after these
things.
It's just and I was very muchof a person that pried
themselves in their body.
I was like an athlete playedcollege field hockey, like
worked out all the time.
(26:48):
I just didn't even recognizewho I was anymore.
I was like thinking abouteverything I put in my body,
like can I eat this, should I bedrinking?
And I enjoyed being aroundfriends and going out and you
know, going to the bar and haveit, just all those things.
You just just feel like youcan't do it anymore and it's
(27:08):
just locking you up now and then, and then we started the IVF
process of September 21 and gothrough all the tests.
Everything comes back clear andthen, um, right before we were
going to start the next steps,shots, all that.
I got pregnant with our nowdaughter, adley, and I just it
(27:30):
was during my birthday weekendin October and I was like I'm
not going to test it, I'm goingto wait for another day, I'm
going to wait for one more day.
And then I was just like, allright, here we go, we're
pregnant again.
And it just when you've beenthrough this experience, this
journey, you it's just everypart of it just gets robbed.
You can't celebrate, can't getexcited.
You go to these appointments.
(27:52):
You're literally hanging on todear life because you just don't
know what the news is going tobe.
And so each appointment and Iwas going like on a weekly basis
because I was like I, my mentalhealth, like I just I need to
know, like, are we okay?
And then by the I think itreally didn't sink in until the
20th week appointment thatanatomy scan, that once, um, our
(28:17):
tech she was with us for acouple other pregnancies and we
just kind of knew how she worked.
She didn't talk much, she wasjust like I'm going to check you
first and then I'm going tocheck on the baby, and then,
just so, she's like everythinglooks healthy.
And my husband's like are thehands okay?
Like what are the, what are thehands and?
feet, like Because I think thatfor him was like stuck in his
head and she's like everythinglooks perfect.
(28:38):
But it's still like when you'regoing through that experience,
you just know so much nowbecause you have Googled and
talked to everybody of all theshit that could go wrong that
until she was in my arms likethere's just no way like I it
didn't feel real and you justcouldn't like I almost didn't
have a baby shower Cause I waslike I just I didn't want to
(28:59):
celebrate something that wasn'there yet.
But then I was just like, well,fuck it, we're gonna.
We're gonna party.
We had a DJ and we're like we'renot opening gifts, we're just
going to get people together,and it was in April of 22 and
just to celebrate.
And then Adley came July 1st.
But I mean, I hired a doula tobe in the room with me.
(29:20):
I hired a postpartum nursebecause I was just so scared
something would go wrong.
I mean, even when they're likewe're going to induce you and I
remember calling my doula, I'mlike I don't know if this is the
right choice, like I just don'twant to fuck this up.
I don't know if this is theright choice.
(29:43):
Like I just don't want to fuckthis up.
I don't want to mess this up.
Yeah, and it'll go wrong.
So we had Adley July 1st of 22.
Um, I went back to work to aweird situation which is a
conversation another day initself and then um left that job
of beginning of 2023 and then Iwas on a trip to my best
friend's wedding in SanFrancisco and I was like, oh,
coffee tastes weird.
That's, that's odd andsomething that I don't know if
this happened to you in yourjourney.
Like certain signs would showup and the feathers were always
(30:07):
a sign and always just popped inmy.
Even my therapist, like James,there's a feather like right
next to you, like there was likethese moments, and I was in San
Fran like, like James, there'sa feather like right next to you
, like there was like thesemoments, and I was in San Fran
like rolling up my yoga mat.
There was a feather on the yogamat and I'm like I just like
pay attention to those likelittle dings and flew back.
I was like God, I didn't drinkthat much, like that's odd, I
(30:28):
just didn't think.
But I was pregnant.
And so I got pregnant withtheir son, carter, and we were
just like we know how this goes.
I never thought like having asecond child wasn't even on the
radar.
We wanted to after we had Adley.
But we were just like, let'sjust enjoy Adley, let's just be
at peace with what we have.
And we're so lucky.
So, having Carter, we get to the12 week appointment, everything
(30:49):
looks good.
I'm like, okay, we'll see whathappens.
Like we were still veryhesitant to tell people.
And then, you know, we get toalmost the third trimester.
Things are still going well.
I'm like, holy shit, this is,this is not real life right now,
like it's just everything we'vebeen through.
But then, right before Christmas, we caught the norovirus and I
(31:12):
was.
My husband had it for 24 hoursand then everybody else was
better, but I was still throwingup really badly.
It was having pain on my rightside.
I went to the hospital twice oflike am I okay, is this baby
okay?
Like I, things don't feel rightand um.
By the third time I went backwe've realized that my appendix
um erupted and so within noteven 12 hours later, they were
(31:34):
immediate surgery.
They're like listen, we don'tknow if we're going to have to
get him out first, but we thinkwe could work around him.
And I think, because I was sosick and I was just like we just
got to do what we got to do tokeep this baby alive and healthy
.
So like, do whatever docs, Itrust you.
And was in a room with 20something doctors, all women,
which was like I don't know.
(31:55):
Just like the women that camein, the doctors who said they
were in the room, I'm like, wow,that's so powerful.
But we had the NICU team, theOB team, the ER team and a four
hour surgery.
They took my appendix out, theykept my son in and three weeks
later ended up delivering him,which was so insane.
(32:15):
But even then like the anxietyof like pregnancy after loss,
then having your children afterloss, like it's still a thing,
and I know you and I talkedabout it.
It's like you know, even whenthey get sick, I'm like is
everything okay?
Like do I need to take them tothe hospital?
Do I, like you, just think theworst case scenario?
Speaker 1 (32:32):
So it's like an anxiety that continuously
working on oh, because the momanxiety, the baseline, I think,
of a parent anxiety is.
You know it's there and thenyou ramp it up by a hundred.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
It's wild yeah, yeah, and I'm like is this, is this
normal?
Do other moms feel this wayabout everything and like even
traveling to come here like Iwas like, oh god, what happens
if something bad happens?
It's just worst case scenario.
But I think when we weretalking about my childhood and
getting like, how do I?
I just have to go back to thelight and just keep thinking
(33:05):
positivity and grounding myselfand gratitude and keeping myself
both feet on the ground and belike this is this.
We're here now, like I can'tspiral and do this because it's
just going to it.
It doesn't do any good and youjust have to remind yourself to
be in the now and focus Right.
What's it right here?
Speaker 1 (33:24):
No wonder you coauthored a book.
Yeah, like you know you hearthat you sit here and you, you
know you just like it's, it'sincredible what some women go
through to have their child.
You know, I mean it's just I'min awe.
I mean, having gone throughwhat I've gone through, I'm just
(33:44):
sitting here listening to youand I'm like my God, it's crazy.
So how did you stumble upon?
So it was in your heart andlike clearly you are very
interested in helping otherwomen and supporting people,
whether it's in their workplaceor just in their life, like
being like a lighthouse forothers.
When were you like you knowwhat I should like be a part of
this book the Losses we.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Keep.
When were you like?
You know what I should like bea part of this book the Losses
we Keep.
So the idea came from my doula,my postpartum doula, lisa.
She was helping us during theday and we were talking about my
work and what was going on.
I was like I don't know if Iwant to go back and I just don't
like the environment that I'min.
And she's like Jane, you needto write a book about your
experience and what you wentthrough.
I don't think you realize ofyou sharing your story, because
(34:22):
we were kind of forced to tellwhat happened to us and I don't
know if, if we were less thanwhere we were and like not
because we announced it onsocial media.
We were pregnant 14 weeks, Iyou know.
And then we had to say threeweeks later, like this is not
going to work, so I had to postsomething.
But Lisa was like Jane, whatyou've done for other women in
(34:44):
this space to give them thatthey're not alone, here's how
you can help get through it,like you've been that beacon for
so many people.
You need to write a book aboutyour experience.
So I went back to work andsomething just kept calling me
to help other women in this,because I would get DMS.
I would, and I'm sure for you,people are like what'd you do?
How'd you get through this?
Thank you for sharing I don't.
I feel less alone.
(35:04):
I feel like I'm not ashamed ofwhat I chose to do.
So the book kept coming throughand I was like maybe I should
write a book.
I don't know, I don't even knowwhere to start from writing a
book, and so I shared with afriend of like I have this idea
of writing a book about ourpregnancy loss journey and how
it can help other women, and sheconnected me with Jessica
(35:25):
Buchanan.
Jessica's story is unbelievable, which is you got to get her on
here.
But I went to Jess and I justsaid I have this idea about
writing a book about ourpregnancy loss journey, but I
feel like my story is just one.
There's so many different casesof what women go through and
they need that like example, soit relates to them.
She's like what about anthology?
(35:45):
I was like absolutely Likecommunity is everything.
Community is like the catalystfor change.
Like if I could curate that ina book.
I've done it in other ways,through running and teaching,
spin class and running like allthe things Like absolutely Like,
how do we do this?
Yeah, run it.
Like all the things likeabsolutely like how do we do
this, yeah.
So she was like you're gonnaneed find other other authors
who've been through thisexperience and then we'll have
(36:06):
them share, as their story is ina chapter.
So, and I just mentioned, likethe losses we keep.
We carry it just the title ofit.
I was like we, you never forgetthese dates and these moments
and these babies that come intoour life, even though sometimes
we don't get to meet them inperson.
But like, damn well, like March28th was the first due date for
(36:27):
our first little girl and Ijust always think about that
date, you know, and thesemoments of time.
And so that's how we createdthe concept the Losses we Keep.
Yeah, I mean, the goal was tohave 10 authors.
We had nine other women whojoined in the book and anything
from pregnancy loss to goingthrough IVF and what that
(36:48):
experience was like, to secondinfertility and choosing a
surrogate and why and what.
She went through ovarian cancertwice right before they removed
her second ovary.
She had to hurry up and gothrough IVF to save eggs, and so
now she has her son Parker, buttalked about her insane
(37:10):
experience.
So I think it's really amazingto see women to have a platform
and that's what really just tocreate that platform for them to
share their story, because someof these women never shared
publicly, even on social, and tosay, like I'm going to share my
story because I want to helpothers.
I feel like there's such a shiftin women's health right now too
, like you see it, not only foryou know, infertility, but also
(37:33):
for menopause, perimenopause now, and women saying like you're
not alone and what you'refeeling, you should not be
ashamed and here's how you canget help.
Here are the people, theresources and it's like the more
we can do that as a collectiveof women to help other women to
get through these hard times.
Like why the hell not um,versus holding it in and feeling
(37:53):
shamed, and but it's, it's hardat times when, if you're not
surrounded around the rightpeople to encourage you and not
to make you feel ashamed,because I remember feeling that
like.
I remember when we firstdecided to terminate I'm not
going to say exactly who in thefamily, but somebody in the
family was like well, you needto be careful what you say out
loud because you know, someother people around us work with
(38:16):
children who have disabilitiesand so they may feel differently
and I'm like like well, ifthat's the way they feel, but
this is my life, this is myfucking choice, this is what's
best for our family right now.
Like I've seen what it could doto families financially, stress
level, like up close andpersonal with my own half
brother, and that was a decisionthat Brad and I made, that we
(38:38):
just didn't want to do that likewe, we just didn't want to go
through that.
So, yeah, it's just to seesomething like the losses we
keep come to life and to be aresource for other women, and
not just for women who beenthrough it, but also what's
unlocked is for caregivers.
You know, to realize like I hada woman last night was like I
shared your book with my sister.
(38:59):
Her daughter has gone throughmultiple losses and my sister
just didn't know what to sayanymore and she's reading your
book and it's really helping herunderstand what her daughter's
going through.
And then only to practitioners,like a doctor who is in the OB
space but may not understand,like behind the doors at home
with like what their patient isactually going through and why
(39:22):
they need to be mindful of everystep point of like when that
patient's coming back in yourroom making sure there's not
signs of like.
Here's your baby.
Here's about breastfeeding.
Because that was something thathappened to me after the third
loss.
They had like what to expectwhen you're expecting a baby and
like the kit and everything andI'm like this is a sick fucking
joke right now and then to haveme sit in that room for 30
(39:44):
minutes cause they were runninglate.
Nobody check on me.
I mean I'm surprised they likeI didn't go to a mental
institute after that, because Iwas just like this, this is
sickening and I just I text her.
I was like I had to leave.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
I'm like they put me in this room.
This is what was on the bed.
I sat there for almost 40minutes.
I walked out.
Well, it's like you're anafterthought.
It's like it's like when you'regoing through something so
horrible like child loss, it'slike you're like pushed to this,
like, oh, let's not, let's not.
You go through the back door,like I talk about the back door
when you get the shitty news andit's like okay, instead of you
walking through the lobby withall these happy pregnant people.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
We're going to walk you to this back room back door
so nobody can see you yes, and.
I had no idea.
I was like, oh, that's whathappens to these people, right?
So the losses, we keep Amazon,amazon, yeah, amazon, and we can
do wholesale.
A lot of practitioners haveasked if they could buy copies
and everything.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
But yes, you can find it on lot of us.
You're really still trying tofeel your way through your
journey and how you can make themost impact.
That feels aligned smallbusiness or whatever the
medium-sized business, anyoneout there who works for a
company.
What are we doing to supportsituations like miscarriage,
(41:10):
child loss?
Are we, you know, are wetalking about that in these
strategic conversations?
Is this part of the plan foryour employees?
And if it's not, not why?
And can we start having thoseconversations?
I would like I'm asking thequestion, it's not rhetorical.
I would like to hear fromanyone out there who you know
(41:30):
feels like no, there's a totalgap here.
Or, oh my god, my company'sdoing x, y and z.
I'd like to know what'shappening, what's best practices
, what's not working out there,like can you just like send us
some DMs, emails, talk to Jamie.
There are people like useverywhere who stand ready and
are passionate to make adifference for the woman that we
(41:51):
were.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, when we found out the first loss
, I was like I said I was atUnder Armour and I didn't know
what else to do besides go backto work, because I was afraid
that people were going to lookdown at me already that I was
going to go on maternity leave,but now that we're not having a
baby, like I'm like, all right,I'm going back to work, that's
it.
And I know some companies haveincluded in their policy that if
(42:12):
there's been a miscarriage or astillbirth, they lost a child,
where maybe they're in theBayverment HR policy, but but
not many at all.
And also something that hasreally come up for me it's like
a lot of these companies arepaying for ivf benefits, which
is amazing, or they're payingfor surrogacy or a adoption
(42:32):
agency.
But those processes of goingthrough ivf, trying to adopt,
trying to go through like thestress level and capacity that
these people are going through,then to show up at work and act
like everything's okay andmeanwhile, behind closed doors,
like there's so many things thatare going wrong that the stress
level of it and the pressurethat they have to do to show up
(42:54):
at work and act likeeverything's okay, I really do
feel like there's a gap forleaders and training them to be
compassionate and empathetictowards those employees.
And how do you talk to thoseemployees on your team that are
going through these things?
Because there was none of thatunder Armour whatsoever.
And my very best boss she was awoman had three kids.
She just left the month beforethis all happened to me.
(43:16):
So I had to go talk to my brandnew boss, who was a male and I
mean, luckily, he was veryunderstanding, but he didn't
check in on me and was likeJamie, you need to take time.
Like he was like all right,whatever you need to do, you
know, and I think that companies, if you have teams, you have
people.
It is your responsibility tohelp train your leaders to be
armed with with these things, tohow to manage and to work with
(43:40):
your people who are goingthrough these hard chapters,
cause I just don't think there'sanything there.
It's like they pay for thebenefits, great, but like do you
?
Do you realize what else isgoing on behind the scenes?
Speaker 1 (43:49):
I mean public service announcement for any company
out there.
I don't care if you're 10 peopleor 10,000 people and being a
male is not as it's not anexcuse.
I don't want to hear like, oh,until we had someone who went
through it.
If you own a company and youhave people, specifically women,
you are going to havesituations in your company where
women suffer miscarriages, theysuffer child loss and they need
(44:12):
time, they need support, theyneed mental health days.
So if you are just notprioritizing that or you're
putting a blind eye to it, shameon you.
And this is the call to actionnow is, if you're not doing it,
set up your zoom call or set upyour meeting or whatever you
need to do to.
How about this?
How about a little brainstormwith the females, a little
(44:34):
powwow?
What do you guys need?
Speaker 2 (44:37):
And parent groups and whatever it may be like you
have asked the questions youhave them.
And so it's just having thediscussion and just ripping that
band-aid off because it'sneeded.
It's so needed.
Do the right thing.
I recently just did a talk fora fortune 500 company and we did
a panel with some of the otherauthors and one of them, sarah,
talks about how she found outher daughter at 13 weeks being
(44:58):
pregnant.
They she had down syndrome andher and her husband decided,
like for their family, theywould have to terminate and some
of the survey feedback that wegot from that ERG group for from
the women's group.
One of the guys in the room waslike thank you for saying what
you did, because that's how wefelt, but we proceeded to have
our daughter.
But I just didn't realize themental and physical load that my
(45:18):
, my wife was going through atthat time.
And then also another womanspoke about how she was lucky
enough to have a really greatboss who didn't he didn't know
that cut to a degree of what shewas going through with IVF
because she went through fourrounds.
But he basically was like youneed to take a few days and
having somebody to give youpermission.
She was like I just I was justhanging on so tightly that I
(45:41):
didn't realize what washappening because I was going
through so much at home.
So just showing up as a betterleader and like just leaning in,
you gotta, you gotta lean in,you gotta do the work.
If you're a leader andsometimes you're not going to
get it from your executive,you're not going to have
somebody to like to assign thattraining for you.
Like, if you know you havepeople on your team who are
going through this, like, do thework, be a better leader and
(46:03):
try to understand instead ofbeing just not too long.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Amen, sister.
Yeah, any closing thoughts,jamie?
Speaker 2 (46:10):
You know, I just I really feel like there's this
beautiful movement for women'shealth, especially what you're
building in the conversationabout infertility, pregnancy and
child loss that, given what'sgoing on in our environment
right now, I just I'm proud.
I'm proud of us in stepping up,because I feel like we need
more people like this in thisworld to help other people get
(46:31):
through it.
And it's been like I always sayit's like the shittiest club to
be part of, but the bestmembers.
You know, I feel fortunate thatI've got to meet these members,
but I just I'm so grateful forthis work and what it's taught
me, um and just I'm just proudthat we can be a vessel to help
others in this way.
So thank you for everythingyou're doing Well.
I'm proud to know you.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
Same same Can't get rid of me.
I'm coming back to Columbus Nottrying to Thank you.
So much, jamie, thank you, andif you're still out there
following your girl, follow meon YouTube, spotify, apple or
wherever you get your podcasts.
And until next time, go toAmazon.
Put the losses we keep in yourlittle thing.
Hit, send and keep moving baby.
Thank you.
Thank you.
So so, so, so, so, so, so, so,so, so, so, so, so so.
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Don't say I've never doneanything for you.
Jamie Crist, welcome to theKeri Croft Show.
I'm so happy to be here.
We've locked eyes now in theflesh, in the flesh.
Welcome to the Keri Groff Show.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
We've locked eyes now in the flesh In the flesh, not
through the DMs, no, we are here.
And just quick background forall the listeners out there On
how you and I connected throughthis huge universe.
Isn't that wild, hilary Phelps?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I think Regan Regan was the one who was like you
need to meet Keri, and I juststarted following one who was
like you need to meet Carrie,and then I just like started
following you and and like waslike hi, I'm Jamie.
Reagan told me I should connectwith you.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Okay, so let's, let's let's rewind for Reagan, the
ultimate connector.
So you're right, reaganconnected me with Hillary Phelps
, yes, but I also connectedReagan.
Yeah, okay, so this is like thewhole thing.
So it's all about reagan, it'sall about you, it's not about me
today, listen, reagan.
We figured a way to make itabout you.
Already thank you so much forthe connection.
(03:11):
So you and I have been bondingand kind of rooting for each
other via the gram.
So for people who say you can'tform true connections on the
internet, I disagree because Ifelt it with you and then I
really will say when I saw youcause you never know, like, what
the energy is going to readwhen you meet somebody in the
flesh yes and the minute.
So.
So Jamie and I, we all haddinner last night and we met at
(03:34):
the Juneto, but I was going upthe elevator and she was walking
in the elevator and she turnsaround.
There I was.
The moment I met you in theflesh I this like very cool
laid-back energy where I waslike I'm gonna really like her
and then, as we sat togetherwhen I felt your vulnerability
but then your strength and justhow you kind of sit back and I
(03:56):
don't know.
I really I'm feeling it okay.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
I it's so interesting when we were sitting down with
dinner because obviously I'veknown Reagan for so long and
then the other ladies thatjoined us.
But like I'm like dinner,because obviously I've known
Reagan for so long and then theother ladies that joined us, but
like I'm like I feel like I'veknown you for years and there's
a couple of women on throughInstagram, that same feeling
like I've only met them maybeonce in person or just met them
through Instagram and I'm likeGod, I feel like I've known you
for years and it's just sospecial and to have that
(04:22):
connection with somebody like wewere talking about, like
surrounding yourself with goodpeople.
I feel so blessed to have liketo come to Columbus and be at
dinner with four other women whojust I vibe with and who uplift
me and just hearing, and likeI'm like holy shit, like this is
so special and I feel like somepeople never get that in their
lives.
But I'm like I feel sofortunate to be part of this
(04:42):
table and yeah, it's just what,like unlocking yesterday.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
I was like I just feel like I've known you forever
well and I and I, when westarted to kind of get into your
upbringing too, I think I alsofelt this like real kinship with
you.
I was like wait, that's where Isaw a little girl in you, where
I was like holy shit, like itdoes remind you that everyone
has such a story, like it's likeyour story and like for me,
(05:09):
having a tumultuous backgroundwith a divorce I mean it changes
you, it creates a fault line inyou.
But you you had an alcoholicmom.
You end up getting adopted byyour aunt.
So just give a littlebackground on that, because you
know you started.
You know, when you were alittle wee girl the universe was
like the seas are going to be alittle rough here yeah, and
growing up you just don'trealize how much you are going
(05:30):
through at that time.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
And then when I look back, when people are like, wow,
you've been through a lot, I'mlike, did I?
Because when I was growing up,like, I had my aunt and I played
sports and I had an amazingcommunity of people and coaches
and teammates and you know so,yeah, so growing up, my, my mom
was 29.
My dad was 56.
My dad was previously married,had four children who were
(05:53):
basically the same age as my mom.
So we like to keep itinteresting in our family and
you know, my dad had a heartattack at 50, or I guess he was
at 60 at this point and he wasan alcoholic as well.
And so my mom you know youngmom at the time and you know
there was probably some abuse,abusive relationship that I
(06:13):
realized later on in life aboutmy mom and my dad.
But, um, my aunt and my momwere best of friends, they were
sisters, and I think my aunt wasjust like Lori, like we need to
do something here.
Jamie's not in a good placehere with you.
You're not in a good place foryourself, let me help.
And I just my aunt is myguardian angel.
I, because I really do think ifI would have continued that
(06:36):
life with my mom, I would endedup in child services, um, and
probably taken away from my mom.
You know, now reflecting back,there was just a lot of trauma.
My mom went through that.
I still don't know to this daythat maybe have caused her to be
an alcoholic, but she justdidn't know how to get help.
And so, yeah, when I was aboutfive years old, my aunt took
legal custody of me, with herand her husband, and at the same
(06:56):
month she signed the paperwork.
She just had her first son, andso her son and I were about
almost six years apart.
And then she had her daughter,jenna, so me and her were 12
years apart.
So it's just funny, that dynamic, like I was the only child but
then became the oldest child andand then when I was about 14,
15, my, we found out my unclewas cheating on my aunt.
(07:18):
And it's so crazy because I Idon't you grow it like growing
up I kind of sensed somethingwas off and and I mean, I grew
up in a very small town, soeverybody knew everybody's
business and my aunt owned aflower business at the time she
had to sell it, she had to gofind a corporate job to get
benefits and just saw, just sawso much what happened to her to
(07:40):
become a single mom.
And this relationship to myuncle, who was like a dad to me,
like I completely lost trust inhim and just I just couldn't
wait to get out.
And at the same time, I stillhad a very good relationship
with my mom through the years.
She remarried um when I wasabout 16 at the time, and my
stepdad and her are completeopposites.
(08:02):
Like Like he didn't drink, he,you know, worked for UPS for 20,
25 years, retired from there,you know, he, they were such a
good balance and but I had mylife in Delaware and I didn't
want to like have to move toBuffalo with them and, you know,
start over and I was justreally keen on getting out.
I just I just wanted to live myown life and get out and just
(08:24):
be on my own.
But realizing with my mom'srelationship, like I knew she
was always there and we hadsomething special, but I just
always felt like I had to be theadult.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Yeah, Do you remember when you were five, around the
time when you when your aunttook you?
Do you have any memories ofbeing with your mom before your
aunt took you?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I, you know it's wild .
So, where we lived inPittsburgh, I remember what the
condo looked like.
I remember my dad's funeral, um, I remember the trips we would
take to my aunt's house.
I don't, I don't remember thefish, like the official move to
Delaware, like this was it, uh,but I remember those trips, like
going back and forth fromPittsburgh and I was also going
to Buffalo, cause my grandmotherwould come and help my mom as
(09:05):
well, so she would.
I would be bouncing around, um,all over the place until my
aunt was like no, this, sheneeds to be here.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
But you don't remember your mom being like any
situations where you're like Ifelt unsafe.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
No, I mean I, I was so young.
It's like those moments I don'tremember.
The only thing like that reallyI'll never forget and this was
kind of the breaking point formy aunt I found my mom's drug
pipe like in her purse in one ofher closets.
And that's what my aunt waslike Lori, you need to get out,
you need to go get help, youcannot do this to your daughter
anymore and I can't have youstay here anymore.
(09:37):
And I, I, just I look back atmy aunt of just she was in her
20s, like she just had her son,like her oldest uh sister was a
shit show and then, like hereshe's taking care of me too,
like I, I don't know how she didit the sports kind of.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Was that kind of like a escape for you or being an
athlete?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
oh, yeah, I and I was a very hyperactive child and my
it was like you were in everysport and I just thought for you
this would be such a great wayto have that outlet.
And I mean I still have greatfriends through playing since
the age of five and playingsoftball and I look back of just
my aunt with her business.
A lot of times I didn't haveher there at our tournaments or
(10:18):
games and having my friend'sparents kind of be looking out
for me on the field and off thefield on those trips and and it,
like I said, it was a smalltown so everybody kind of looked
out for each other for the mostpart.
It was really special.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
So your mom ends up passing away and you guys were
just kind of, you said,developing or trying to deepen
your relationship, which I feellike is just another gut punch
for you.
It's like, okay, what couldhave been?
Do you struggle with that whereyou're like what would she be
like now?
Speaker 2 (10:53):
All the time.
I had the weird feeling theother day where I was like I'm
going to call my mom and I waslike whoa, I haven't done that
in a long time.
So she passed when I was about32.
My husband and I got married.
We eloped and had like our corefamily there and then a year
later we had an anniversaryparty and the years of when my
husband and I were like datingand it was some of the hardest
(11:16):
years with my mom because heralcoholism got so bad that we
had to put her in rehab twice.
I would be at work but I waslike traveling all the time for
Under Armour and so I would justskip family, like visits to her
or my grandmother wasn't doingwell, so I just I never made
time because I just didn't wantto deal with what was happening
to her because she would lie tome.
She had two DUIs and it just um, it was just so frustrating and
(11:42):
her to not want to change andit was something I realized
growing up like she never wantedto change, to be my mom and to
take care of me and I felt likeit was the same thing.
Yeah, we, we kinda I don't.
I think she just realized howsick she was.
She had rheumatoid arthritis.
And that week, when we had theparty was just like, we didn't
(12:02):
argue, we didn't fight, she waslike under control with her
drinking at the time, and wejust had the party was just like
, we didn't argue, we didn'tfight, she was like under
control with her drinking at thetime, and we just had the best
time.
We danced to Whitney Houston atthe party, like it was
everything.
And then, literally a weeklater, she passed and it was
just like.
It felt like we were turningthis new page together and I
(12:22):
felt like my mom and I werehaving this great relationship
again and it's like it was gone.
And yeah, to now, like thinkingabout, I think about she would
have been an amazing grandmother.
Yeah, she was okay mom, but I,she would love these kids so
much she would spoil a shit outof them.
She would probably made mystepdad to move to Baltimore or
move to the beach.
And I just think, especially inthe moments my stepdad and I
(12:45):
still we didn't have like aclose relationship when she was
alive, cause he just wasn't like, um, an emotional type of
stepfather, and my mom was likehe just it's not a feely, touchy
guy, james, like he justdoesn't like to talk about his
emotions.
But something changed when shepassed and I was like Ken, you
need me and I need you and we.
I literally call him almostevery day, he texts me, every
(13:07):
day he comes and visits us and I, just in these moments when
he's with the kids, andespecially we, were up at the
house and like her ashes arestill on the mantle, like I, you
know, the house is still herand I see my two kids in this
house, I'm like I just can'tbelieve she's not here to see
(13:31):
this, you know, and toexperience with Ken and seeing
him be such a great grandfatherto these children too, like she
would be so beyond herself, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
And so, coming from this you know, just unstable all
in it, all worked out, but justvery unstable upbringing.
You probably wanted and yearnedfor your own family so badly,
and then for you to embark ontrying to have a family and then
to hit all of these horribleroadblocks, it's like why you
know no, it's funny, I I didn'tknow I wanted kids.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
And same thing, like with my husband, because we were
so career focused.
He was just starting startinghis business.
He left his other job.
I, because of my upbringing andwhat I've seen and experienced,
I was like, well, I don't wantto fuck my kids up.
I like don't want this tohappen to them.
And you know, I still I think,because of what I happened
seeing with my mom and then myaunt and uncle, I've always had
(14:19):
this fear like are we going toget divorced, something bad
going to happen to us and ourrelationship?
And so I just didn't want to dothat to my own kids.
So I was like, all right, well,I'll just focus on my career.
And then, when Brad and I gotmarried, I'm like, do we start
trying?
Like it's been a couple ofyears, like we'll give it a go.
And we got pregnant prettyquickly.
And so we were both like weright, we're gonna, we're gonna
(14:39):
do this, yeah.
And then, yeah, we we found outwe were pregnant in July 2019.
And then we I went for a scanat the 12 week mark, so it was
around like September, and theywere like, well, we see some
(15:00):
weird, something off a littlebit.
It just looks like there's acyst in the baby's abdomen we'll
bring you back in a few weeks.
And I was like okay, andliterally the next day they
found a lump in my breast.
So they weren't sure, like whatwas going on with that.
So I was literally gettingbiopsy done on my breast and
then at the same time had to goback to see to make sure
everything's okay with the baby.
I had a benign, everything wasfine.
(15:21):
They're just figuring outwhat's from hormones and went
back for my appointment and Ijust told Brad cause he didn't
come to the 12 week.
I was like, can you just comewith me just to be there?
Like it just it's weird.
I was like I just need youthere and we go in.
Lady, just, you know, doesultrasound.
She shows us the baby's face,we're excited, and then she gets
(15:47):
quiet and then she brings thedoctor in and this guy
definitely did not his likebedside manners whatsoever, but
he's just pressing really hardand he's just like, okay, cleans
me up.
He's like we're just going togo to this room down here and
we're just going to chat.
I'm getting cleaned up.
I'm like Brad, something,something's not right, this does
not feel right at all.
We go in this room, we sit downand the doctor comes in with the
genetic counselor and they'rejust saying we see something
(16:09):
very wrong.
It looks like your baby hasorthogryposis.
So, basically, the hands arecurled in and you can see it on
the scan that the legs weren'tfully out, it was like the baby
was sitting.
And they laid it out to us likewell, it was like the baby was
sitting and they laid it out tous like well, your baby may not
make it and if they do, they'regoing to need pretty severe
(16:31):
surgeries to help correct a lotof these things.
And we just don't know howsevere it is.
You know they're looking at thescan and seeing.
You know it's not good.
And then the genetic counselorshe had such better manners and
to explain to us and when thedoctor left she was just like,
listen, here's what we could do.
We could get you a secondopinion and just think about it.
(16:53):
I'm happy to get you in.
And so Brad and I were just andit's weird because we had this
discussion before we even gotpregnant Like if something
seriously is wrong, if we have ababy and and we have to termin
or make that decision orwhatever.
Like we're on the same page,like we're in it together, which
is so weird because we weren'teven sure if we wanted to have
kids.
But here we are at this tableand they leave and we're just
(17:16):
like this is what we talkedabout.
We have to see if this is evenan option, because I don't even
know.
Like we just didn't expectanything like this.
So the doctors come back in Imentioned you know, if we have
to proceed to terminate thispregnancy, what does that look
like?
They're like, oh, you can't dothat here we're a Catholic
hospital.
We're like, oh, okay, all right.
(17:36):
And I'm just in shock becauseit's like getting the news and
then hearing that it's just likewe don't even know what our
options are, what this is, howthe hell we got this ortho
kyposis, because nothing came upin our genetic testing or
anything.
So we go to university ofmaryland next day, get in and
the doctor there they were likea high fetal risk, uh, hospital.
(17:56):
And so the main doctor therewas like it does not look good,
like it's something with thecentral nervous system is not
firing up.
You can see it in the bloodflow.
He's just like this is not goodguys.
So we decided to terminate at 17weeks and so I had to go
through a DNC and I had a wholeweek to wait before we went
forward with the surgery.
(18:16):
So I was literally one of thebiggest events in Baltimore for
the city with running, and I wasrunning our running category
for sports marketing.
We had all these athletescoming in and to explain that I,
that we're not going to have ababy anymore.
We were receiving gifts.
You know, it's just so much.
And when people are like how'sthe baby, how's it going, you
(18:37):
run into people and you're justI just kind of like locked
myself in our condo and justdidn't want to come out.
And then we had the DNC and thedoctor did confirm that we made
the right choice and that gaveus peace.
But what I realized that week,it was just like, well, if you
(19:01):
want to go to work, you know,later this week you can.
There was just no anything, noresources, and I think that's
the beauty about community, ofother people reaching out to me
to say I've been through whatyou've been through.
I would love to help.
And one was an acupuncturist inBaltimore who went through
three miscarriages herself andshe just said listen, I heard
what happened to you.
I would love to help you.
And I just didn't realize, like,what that could look like.
At the same time, I had afriend mentioned about a
therapist.
So I go and see Marianne, who'smy therapist, up to this day,
(19:26):
and I didn't know.
I just never went to therapy.
And to think what we justtalked about with my background,
what the hell was a night intherapy, what the fuck.
And I sit down with her and I'mlike checking off the box, like
all right, I'm here at therapy,I'm going to talk about what
happened and then I'm going togo back to work because, like, I
just need to do something.
I can't think about thisanymore, I don't want to talk
(19:48):
about it.
And then she was like, well,who's who's supporting you right
now?
And I mentioned like oh, myhusband, my aunt, and I tell her
about my relationship with mymom and what happened.
I think that's when she was like, oh, there's a lot more to lock
here.
James, you haven't grievedabout your mother yet and the
relationship that you had withher and everything you went
(20:09):
through.
But now you just lost yourdaughter and you don't have a
mom here to console you.
But also the way that youdidn't know you wanted this
child, it didn't hit me until wegot the news and we lost that
baby.
How badly I wanted to be amother.
Then I had no idea it likebrings tears to my eyes because
(20:30):
I just was so focused on careerand work and like avoiding the
emotion and feelings of likebeing nurturing and then to see
to have something taken awayfrom you that you didn't even
know you wanted it.
Like, wow, that hits so hard,so hard.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
So what happened next in terms of pregnancies?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Oh, here we go pregnancies.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
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Speaker 2 (22:34):
So that happened October 2019.
And I mentioned about in thebook how you just get very
fixated of you're going to getpregnant again.
Here's what I'm going to do NowI know what could happen.
I'm going to get it earlier.
So we tried three months afterthat and then the pandemic
(22:54):
happened in March and soeverything shut down and I mean
I was pushing my husband likewe're going to have scheduled
sex, we're going to make thishappen.
And then I finally got pregnantagain in July and then eight
(23:17):
weeks later, I miscarried.
Don't know, we don't know why.
You know, it's just end uppassing at home.
And then shortly after that byso that was September of 2020,
by January 2021, I got pregnantagain.
Everything was going great.
My progesterone was a littlebit low.
I was like on it Okay, low, letme go take progesterone.
Like here's the test I need toget done.
And then we went in for the 12to 13 week ultrasound.
(23:40):
The same time we were waitingfor our genetic results, the
sonographer realized there wassomething going on with the
heart and I still like I knewwhat I knew then, but like still
didn't understand.
Like I'm like there's just noway this can happen again, no
way.
Like well, they take us in aroom, the head doctor comes in
we already know him, and he'slike guys, this is not looking
(24:01):
good.
And so we found out that thatbaby another, it was another
female.
It was caused by triplody,which is when two sperm hit the
same egg and it creates a wholeanother set of chromosomes and
baby does not make it.
So we scheduled another dnc andliterally the day before I was
supposed to, I was on like aboutto leave the house to go get
(24:23):
prepped for a dnc and it'sbecause the day before you go
and get dilated and everythingand I end up miscarrying at home
.
And that was one of the most Imean traumatic experiences I've
ever went through.
I don't recommend it to anybody.
Then we decided to go to Mexico.
We have a blast two monthslater and I probably yeah, two
(24:43):
months later got pregnant again.
I'm like, okay, this is it,this is it, this has to be it.
I go and schedule it early, goin and I see the screen and at
this point you know what you'relooking at and I see the screen.
I'm like there's there's nolike fetus, there's no baby Like
, and I didn't say anything butthat I could tell by the lady,
(25:04):
the tech, and she was like I'msorry, but there's no fetus, um,
and then it explains it's ablighted ovum.
So that was pregnancy numberfour.
This is almost June of 2021.
And so at that point, after twoweeks of taking basically the
abortion pill to help passeverything, I still had to go
get a DNC.
So that was my third surgery.
(25:25):
So at this point I'm just likemy body is not doing what it's
supposed to.
Am I having too many surgeriesat this point?
Is it going to affect thingslater on?
Just very much of like why me?
We escaped to Rehoboth Beach forthe summer.
I told my husband, like I can'tspend another summer in
Baltimore, I need to get out.
And so that's what we did.
(25:46):
We went to the beach for three,or not even for three months,
it was like two months and I wasjust, we were like at a
breaking point of like what dowe do next?
Before we try to figure outwhat was next, what was going on
with me, I got him tested.
I I mean any resource I couldfind online or what people did.
(26:07):
I would reach out and saywhat'd you do?
Like, all right, I need to getthat test done and and really
the unlocking was going to afunctional medicine doctor who
helped me realize like mythyroid was getting off like
tripling every time I gotpregnant and probably some other
variables with likeinflammation.
But I just told Brad I was likewe have to do IVF.
(26:27):
I can't, I can't go throughanother three months of this and
to get horrible news.
And then my body was justfluctuating with hormones, the
weight gain and then likefeeling pregnant after these
things.
It's just and I was very muchof a person that pried
themselves in their body.
I was like an athlete playedcollege field hockey, like
worked out all the time.
(26:48):
I just didn't even recognizewho I was anymore.
I was like thinking abouteverything I put in my body,
like can I eat this, should I bedrinking?
And I enjoyed being aroundfriends and going out and you
know, going to the bar and haveit, just all those things.
You just just feel like youcan't do it anymore and it's
(27:08):
just locking you up now and then, and then we started the IVF
process of September 21 and gothrough all the tests.
Everything comes back clear andthen, um, right before we were
going to start the next steps,shots, all that.
I got pregnant with our nowdaughter, adley, and I just it
(27:30):
was during my birthday weekendin October and I was like I'm
not going to test it, I'm goingto wait for another day, I'm
going to wait for one more day.
And then I was just like, allright, here we go, we're
pregnant again.
And it just when you've beenthrough this experience, this
journey, you it's just everypart of it just gets robbed.
You can't celebrate, can't getexcited.
You go to these appointments.
(27:52):
You're literally hanging on todear life because you just don't
know what the news is going tobe.
And so each appointment and Iwas going like on a weekly basis
because I was like I, my mentalhealth, like I just I need to
know, like, are we okay?
And then by the I think itreally didn't sink in until the
20th week appointment thatanatomy scan, that once, um, our
(28:17):
tech she was with us for acouple other pregnancies and we
just kind of knew how she worked.
She didn't talk much, she wasjust like I'm going to check you
first and then I'm going tocheck on the baby, and then,
just so, she's like everythinglooks healthy.
And my husband's like are thehands okay?
Like what are the, what are thehands and?
feet, like Because I think thatfor him was like stuck in his
head and she's like everythinglooks perfect.
(28:38):
But it's still like when you'regoing through that experience,
you just know so much nowbecause you have Googled and
talked to everybody of all theshit that could go wrong that
until she was in my arms likethere's just no way like I it
didn't feel real and you justcouldn't like I almost didn't
have a baby shower Cause I waslike I just I didn't want to
(28:59):
celebrate something that wasn'there yet.
But then I was just like, well,fuck it, we're gonna.
We're gonna party.
We had a DJ and we're like we'renot opening gifts, we're just
going to get people together,and it was in April of 22 and
just to celebrate.
And then Adley came July 1st.
But I mean, I hired a doula tobe in the room with me.
(29:20):
I hired a postpartum nursebecause I was just so scared
something would go wrong.
I mean, even when they're likewe're going to induce you and I
remember calling my doula, I'mlike I don't know if this is the
right choice, like I just don'twant to fuck this up.
I don't know if this is theright choice.
(29:43):
Like I just don't want to fuckthis up.
I don't want to mess this up.
Yeah, and it'll go wrong.
So we had Adley July 1st of 22.
Um, I went back to work to aweird situation which is a
conversation another day initself and then um left that job
of beginning of 2023 and then Iwas on a trip to my best
friend's wedding in SanFrancisco and I was like, oh,
coffee tastes weird.
That's, that's odd andsomething that I don't know if
this happened to you in yourjourney.
Like certain signs would showup and the feathers were always
(30:07):
a sign and always just popped inmy.
Even my therapist, like James,there's a feather like right
next to you, like there was likethese moments, and I was in San
Fran like, like James, there'sa feather like right next to you
, like there was like thesemoments, and I was in San Fran
like rolling up my yoga mat.
There was a feather on the yogamat and I'm like I just like
pay attention to those likelittle dings and flew back.
I was like God, I didn't drinkthat much, like that's odd, I
(30:28):
just didn't think.
But I was pregnant.
And so I got pregnant withtheir son, carter, and we were
just like we know how this goes.
I never thought like having asecond child wasn't even on the
radar.
We wanted to after we had Adley.
But we were just like, let'sjust enjoy Adley, let's just be
at peace with what we have.
And we're so lucky.
So, having Carter, we get to the12 week appointment, everything
(30:49):
looks good.
I'm like, okay, we'll see whathappens.
Like we were still veryhesitant to tell people.
And then, you know, we get toalmost the third trimester.
Things are still going well.
I'm like, holy shit, this is,this is not real life right now,
like it's just everything we'vebeen through.
But then, right before Christmas, we caught the norovirus and I
(31:12):
was.
My husband had it for 24 hoursand then everybody else was
better, but I was still throwingup really badly.
It was having pain on my rightside.
I went to the hospital twice oflike am I okay, is this baby
okay?
Like I, things don't feel rightand um.
By the third time I went backwe've realized that my appendix
um erupted and so within noteven 12 hours later, they were
(31:34):
immediate surgery.
They're like listen, we don'tknow if we're going to have to
get him out first, but we thinkwe could work around him.
And I think, because I was sosick and I was just like we just
got to do what we got to do tokeep this baby alive and healthy
.
So like, do whatever docs, Itrust you.
And was in a room with 20something doctors, all women,
which was like I don't know.
(31:55):
Just like the women that camein, the doctors who said they
were in the room, I'm like, wow,that's so powerful.
But we had the NICU team, theOB team, the ER team and a four
hour surgery.
They took my appendix out, theykept my son in and three weeks
later ended up delivering him,which was so insane.
(32:15):
But even then like the anxietyof like pregnancy after loss,
then having your children afterloss, like it's still a thing,
and I know you and I talkedabout it.
It's like you know, even whenthey get sick, I'm like is
everything okay?
Like do I need to take them tothe hospital?
Do I, like you, just think theworst case scenario?
Speaker 1 (32:32):
So it's like an anxiety that continuously
working on oh, because the momanxiety, the baseline, I think,
of a parent anxiety is.
You know it's there and thenyou ramp it up by a hundred.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
It's wild yeah, yeah, and I'm like is this, is this
normal?
Do other moms feel this wayabout everything and like even
traveling to come here like Iwas like, oh god, what happens
if something bad happens?
It's just worst case scenario.
But I think when we weretalking about my childhood and
getting like, how do I?
I just have to go back to thelight and just keep thinking
(33:05):
positivity and grounding myselfand gratitude and keeping myself
both feet on the ground and belike this is this.
We're here now, like I can'tspiral and do this because it's
just going to it.
It doesn't do any good and youjust have to remind yourself to
be in the now and focus Right.
What's it right here?
Speaker 1 (33:24):
No wonder you coauthored a book.
Yeah, like you know you hearthat you sit here and you, you
know you just like it's, it'sincredible what some women go
through to have their child.
You know, I mean it's just I'min awe.
I mean, having gone throughwhat I've gone through, I'm just
(33:44):
sitting here listening to youand I'm like my God, it's crazy.
So how did you stumble upon?
So it was in your heart andlike clearly you are very
interested in helping otherwomen and supporting people,
whether it's in their workplaceor just in their life, like
being like a lighthouse forothers.
When were you like you knowwhat I should like be a part of
this book the Losses we.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Keep.
When were you like?
You know what I should like bea part of this book the Losses
we Keep.
So the idea came from my doula,my postpartum doula, lisa.
She was helping us during theday and we were talking about my
work and what was going on.
I was like I don't know if Iwant to go back and I just don't
like the environment that I'min.
And she's like Jane, you needto write a book about your
experience and what you wentthrough.
I don't think you realize ofyou sharing your story, because
(34:22):
we were kind of forced to tellwhat happened to us and I don't
know if, if we were less thanwhere we were and like not
because we announced it onsocial media.
We were pregnant 14 weeks, Iyou know.
And then we had to say threeweeks later, like this is not
going to work, so I had to postsomething.
But Lisa was like Jane, whatyou've done for other women in
(34:44):
this space to give them thatthey're not alone, here's how
you can help get through it,like you've been that beacon for
so many people.
You need to write a book aboutyour experience.
So I went back to work andsomething just kept calling me
to help other women in this,because I would get DMS.
I would, and I'm sure for you,people are like what'd you do?
How'd you get through this?
Thank you for sharing I don't.
I feel less alone.
(35:04):
I feel like I'm not ashamed ofwhat I chose to do.
So the book kept coming throughand I was like maybe I should
write a book.
I don't know, I don't even knowwhere to start from writing a
book, and so I shared with afriend of like I have this idea
of writing a book about ourpregnancy loss journey and how
it can help other women, and sheconnected me with Jessica
(35:25):
Buchanan.
Jessica's story is unbelievable, which is you got to get her on
here.
But I went to Jess and I justsaid I have this idea about
writing a book about ourpregnancy loss journey, but I
feel like my story is just one.
There's so many different casesof what women go through and
they need that like example, soit relates to them.
She's like what about anthology?
(35:45):
I was like absolutely Likecommunity is everything.
Community is like the catalystfor change.
Like if I could curate that ina book.
I've done it in other ways,through running and teaching,
spin class and running like allthe things Like absolutely Like,
how do we do this?
Yeah, run it.
Like all the things likeabsolutely like how do we do
this, yeah.
So she was like you're gonnaneed find other other authors
who've been through thisexperience and then we'll have
(36:06):
them share, as their story is ina chapter.
So, and I just mentioned, likethe losses we keep.
We carry it just the title ofit.
I was like we, you never forgetthese dates and these moments
and these babies that come intoour life, even though sometimes
we don't get to meet them inperson.
But like, damn well, like March28th was the first due date for
(36:27):
our first little girl and Ijust always think about that
date, you know, and thesemoments of time.
And so that's how we createdthe concept the Losses we Keep.
Yeah, I mean, the goal was tohave 10 authors.
We had nine other women whojoined in the book and anything
from pregnancy loss to goingthrough IVF and what that
(36:48):
experience was like, to secondinfertility and choosing a
surrogate and why and what.
She went through ovarian cancertwice right before they removed
her second ovary.
She had to hurry up and gothrough IVF to save eggs, and so
now she has her son Parker, buttalked about her insane
(37:10):
experience.
So I think it's really amazingto see women to have a platform
and that's what really just tocreate that platform for them to
share their story, because someof these women never shared
publicly, even on social, and tosay, like I'm going to share my
story because I want to helpothers.
I feel like there's such a shiftin women's health right now too
, like you see it, not only foryou know, infertility, but also
(37:33):
for menopause, perimenopause now, and women saying like you're
not alone and what you'refeeling, you should not be
ashamed and here's how you canget help.
Here are the people, theresources and it's like the more
we can do that as a collectiveof women to help other women to
get through these hard times.
Like why the hell not um,versus holding it in and feeling
(37:53):
shamed, and but it's, it's hardat times when, if you're not
surrounded around the rightpeople to encourage you and not
to make you feel ashamed,because I remember feeling that
like.
I remember when we firstdecided to terminate I'm not
going to say exactly who in thefamily, but somebody in the
family was like well, you needto be careful what you say out
loud because you know, someother people around us work with
(38:16):
children who have disabilitiesand so they may feel differently
and I'm like like well, ifthat's the way they feel, but
this is my life, this is myfucking choice, this is what's
best for our family right now.
Like I've seen what it could doto families financially, stress
level, like up close andpersonal with my own half
brother, and that was a decisionthat Brad and I made, that we
(38:38):
just didn't want to do that likewe, we just didn't want to go
through that.
So, yeah, it's just to seesomething like the losses we
keep come to life and to be aresource for other women, and
not just for women who beenthrough it, but also what's
unlocked is for caregivers.
You know, to realize like I hada woman last night was like I
shared your book with my sister.
(38:59):
Her daughter has gone throughmultiple losses and my sister
just didn't know what to sayanymore and she's reading your
book and it's really helping herunderstand what her daughter's
going through.
And then only to practitioners,like a doctor who is in the OB
space but may not understand,like behind the doors at home
with like what their patient isactually going through and why
(39:22):
they need to be mindful of everystep point of like when that
patient's coming back in yourroom making sure there's not
signs of like.
Here's your baby.
Here's about breastfeeding.
Because that was something thathappened to me after the third
loss.
They had like what to expectwhen you're expecting a baby and
like the kit and everything andI'm like this is a sick fucking
joke right now and then to haveme sit in that room for 30
(39:44):
minutes cause they were runninglate.
Nobody check on me.
I mean I'm surprised they likeI didn't go to a mental
institute after that, because Iwas just like this, this is
sickening and I just I text her.
I was like I had to leave.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
I'm like they put me in this room.
This is what was on the bed.
I sat there for almost 40minutes.
I walked out.
Well, it's like you're anafterthought.
It's like it's like when you'regoing through something so
horrible like child loss, it'slike you're like pushed to this,
like, oh, let's not, let's not.
You go through the back door,like I talk about the back door
when you get the shitty news andit's like okay, instead of you
walking through the lobby withall these happy pregnant people.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
We're going to walk you to this back room back door
so nobody can see you yes, and.
I had no idea.
I was like, oh, that's whathappens to these people, right?
So the losses, we keep Amazon,amazon, yeah, amazon, and we can
do wholesale.
A lot of practitioners haveasked if they could buy copies
and everything.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
But yes, you can find it on lot of us.
You're really still trying tofeel your way through your
journey and how you can make themost impact.
That feels aligned smallbusiness or whatever the
medium-sized business, anyoneout there who works for a
company.
What are we doing to supportsituations like miscarriage,
(41:10):
child loss?
Are we, you know, are wetalking about that in these
strategic conversations?
Is this part of the plan foryour employees?
And if it's not, not why?
And can we start having thoseconversations?
I would like I'm asking thequestion, it's not rhetorical.
I would like to hear fromanyone out there who you know
(41:30):
feels like no, there's a totalgap here.
Or, oh my god, my company'sdoing x, y and z.
I'd like to know what'shappening, what's best practices
, what's not working out there,like can you just like send us
some DMs, emails, talk to Jamie.
There are people like useverywhere who stand ready and
are passionate to make adifference for the woman that we
(41:51):
were.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, when we found out the first loss
, I was like I said I was atUnder Armour and I didn't know
what else to do besides go backto work, because I was afraid
that people were going to lookdown at me already that I was
going to go on maternity leave,but now that we're not having a
baby, like I'm like, all right,I'm going back to work, that's
it.
And I know some companies haveincluded in their policy that if
(42:12):
there's been a miscarriage or astillbirth, they lost a child,
where maybe they're in theBayverment HR policy, but but
not many at all.
And also something that hasreally come up for me it's like
a lot of these companies arepaying for ivf benefits, which
is amazing, or they're payingfor surrogacy or a adoption
(42:32):
agency.
But those processes of goingthrough ivf, trying to adopt,
trying to go through like thestress level and capacity that
these people are going through,then to show up at work and act
like everything's okay andmeanwhile, behind closed doors,
like there's so many things thatare going wrong that the stress
level of it and the pressurethat they have to do to show up
(42:54):
at work and act likeeverything's okay, I really do
feel like there's a gap forleaders and training them to be
compassionate and empathetictowards those employees.
And how do you talk to thoseemployees on your team that are
going through these things?
Because there was none of thatunder Armour whatsoever.
And my very best boss she was awoman had three kids.
She just left the month beforethis all happened to me.
(43:16):
So I had to go talk to my brandnew boss, who was a male and I
mean, luckily, he was veryunderstanding, but he didn't
check in on me and was likeJamie, you need to take time.
Like he was like all right,whatever you need to do, you
know, and I think that companies, if you have teams, you have
people.
It is your responsibility tohelp train your leaders to be
armed with with these things, tohow to manage and to work with
(43:40):
your people who are goingthrough these hard chapters,
cause I just don't think there'sanything there.
It's like they pay for thebenefits, great, but like do you
?
Do you realize what else isgoing on behind the scenes?
Speaker 1 (43:49):
I mean public service announcement for any company
out there.
I don't care if you're 10 peopleor 10,000 people and being a
male is not as it's not anexcuse.
I don't want to hear like, oh,until we had someone who went
through it.
If you own a company and youhave people, specifically women,
you are going to havesituations in your company where
women suffer miscarriages, theysuffer child loss and they need
(44:12):
time, they need support, theyneed mental health days.
So if you are just notprioritizing that or you're
putting a blind eye to it, shameon you.
And this is the call to actionnow is, if you're not doing it,
set up your zoom call or set upyour meeting or whatever you
need to do to.
How about this?
How about a little brainstormwith the females, a little
(44:34):
powwow?
What do you guys need?
Speaker 2 (44:37):
And parent groups and whatever it may be like you
have asked the questions youhave them.
And so it's just having thediscussion and just ripping that
band-aid off because it'sneeded.
It's so needed.
Do the right thing.
I recently just did a talk fora fortune 500 company and we did
a panel with some of the otherauthors and one of them, sarah,
talks about how she found outher daughter at 13 weeks being
(44:58):
pregnant.
They she had down syndrome andher and her husband decided,
like for their family, theywould have to terminate and some
of the survey feedback that wegot from that ERG group for from
the women's group.
One of the guys in the room waslike thank you for saying what
you did, because that's how wefelt, but we proceeded to have
our daughter.
But I just didn't realize themental and physical load that my
(45:18):
, my wife was going through atthat time.
And then also another womanspoke about how she was lucky
enough to have a really greatboss who didn't he didn't know
that cut to a degree of what shewas going through with IVF
because she went through fourrounds.
But he basically was like youneed to take a few days and
having somebody to give youpermission.
She was like I just I was justhanging on so tightly that I
(45:41):
didn't realize what washappening because I was going
through so much at home.
So just showing up as a betterleader and like just leaning in,
you gotta, you gotta lean in,you gotta do the work.
If you're a leader andsometimes you're not going to
get it from your executive,you're not going to have
somebody to like to assign thattraining for you.
Like, if you know you havepeople on your team who are
going through this, like, do thework, be a better leader and
(46:03):
try to understand instead ofbeing just not too long.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Amen, sister.
Yeah, any closing thoughts,jamie?
Speaker 2 (46:10):
You know, I just I really feel like there's this
beautiful movement for women'shealth, especially what you're
building in the conversationabout infertility, pregnancy and
child loss that, given what'sgoing on in our environment
right now, I just I'm proud.
I'm proud of us in stepping up,because I feel like we need
more people like this in thisworld to help other people get
(46:31):
through it.
And it's been like I always sayit's like the shittiest club to
be part of, but the bestmembers.
You know, I feel fortunate thatI've got to meet these members,
but I just I'm so grateful forthis work and what it's taught
me, um and just I'm just proudthat we can be a vessel to help
others in this way.
So thank you for everythingyou're doing Well.
I'm proud to know you.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
Same same Can't get rid of me.
I'm coming back to Columbus Nottrying to Thank you.
So much, jamie, thank you, andif you're still out there
following your girl, follow meon YouTube, spotify, apple or
wherever you get your podcasts.
And until next time, go toAmazon.
Put the losses we keep in yourlittle thing.
Hit, send and keep moving baby.
Thank you.
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