What happens when the fertility journey ends and there’s no baby?
Lana Manikowski lived that.
Seven years of treatments, zero viable embryos — and a whole lot of silence from the people who were supposed to help her through it.
In this episode, we talk about:
→ Grieving what could’ve been
→ Redefining purpose when motherhood isn’t part of the story
→ Baby showers, holidays, and all the awkward sh*t no one prepares you for
→ Finding joy — even with a little grief in your back pocket
Lana is real, brilliant, and brave as hell.
And if you’ve ever felt like the only one navigating life after infertility — this one’s for you.
🎙️ Listen to the full episode now.
💻 Download her free guide at lanamanikowski.com
📖 Get her book "So Now What?" HERE
#TheKeriCroftShow #InfertilitySeries #LifeAfterInfertility #ChildlessNotByChoice #SayTheThing #YouAreNotAlone #InfertilityAwarenessMonth #LanaManikowski #PurposeBeyondMotherhood #OthersDay #1in6
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
a pair of Valentino slides for like $3.79.
I know they must have had a biglast year's liquidation or
something that they sent off tothe rack.
Coco, nobody's going to bug you.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm just going to do this for your mom.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
This is good.
I had to wear my.
I turned 50 in May.
My parents got me this and itsays you always shine like a
star, thank you.
They had it engraved in theback.
So I was like, okay, I'll wearthis today.
(01:03):
Those eyeballs, she'll get hotin the middle and she'll get up
(01:46):
and move.
I got lots of those, all right.
Resting bitch face.
Yeah, okay, I got lots of thoseresting bitchface.
Yeah, okay, will you stop mycamera right here and then we'll
(02:08):
restart right before you sitdown so I don't run out of
battery.
You're going to have someoneelse to meet.
What's her name?
Yeah, kate's going to be herelater.
(02:29):
Yeah, I'm on these new menopause, hair loss, um vitamins and so
I feel it, I have a lot of newhair growth and I feel like I've
got these alpha.
Yeah, I, they're from london,from the uk gloa, I'll send you
the link, but I order them andthey ship um, but yeah, I've got
(02:51):
like a ton of new hair growth.
So my thanks, thanks.
Well, I just I was saying Ihave a lot of little flyaways
because it's new growth.
Okay, oh god, okay, oh good,okay, never know.
(03:16):
Okay, you know you're going tobe sitting in the car for a long
time.
Are you sure you want to bethis curled up?
She does love the car.
I know it's nice.
(03:38):
That's why, when the dog walkercancelled, I was like, okay,
we're going to do a girls trip.
Walker canceled and I was like,okay, we're gonna do a girl's
trip, okay, test.
Um, I don't consider myselfsoft spoken.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I don't know the answer to that I might feel like
it's super close to you, butthat's okay, try not to bump
into it.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
I might feel like it's super close to you, but
that's okay.
Okay, I'm trying not to bumpinto it.
Are you sure my can's notruining your set?
I can move it.
No, okay, I'm fine with it, youare?
Yeah, you can do it.
Probably not because I won't beable to reach it.
Or maybe we can put it downhere and I can grab it.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, I'll go back here.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
I'll take it that way .
I don't have to bug you thisdog takes priority over my life.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Coco's on.
Okay, coco and Lana, coco andLana Manikowski.
Welcome to the.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
I am so good.
How are you?
I'm so good.
I'm really glad to be here.
You came all the way fromChi-Town.
I did.
I wanted a little road trip.
We did a girls' night inColumbus.
Where did you stay?
We stayed at the A-Loft, whichwas super dog-friendly.
Coco got her own ball.
They had like treats for her.
What did you had like treatsfor her.
(05:49):
So I didn't eat dinner.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I just yeah, we just kind of got in around 7, 30 and
chilled out.
Yeah, I'm just, I'm soflattered.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah, I know you offered uh zoom and I was like,
ah, I don't know.
I felt like we'd vibe better inperson, so I'm glad to be here
anytime I can get somebody here,as opposed to remote, I'm all
about it.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yeah, so you, just like many women that we have
been talking to and some men inthe month of April, you've gone
through your own long battlewith infertility and for you the
ending was you didn't have anykids and so you have become an
advocate and a voice and sort ofthis light for people who, at
(06:28):
the end of this journey if it'slike, hey, I don't want to go
through anything else, I'm donethey can look to you and be like
, well, shit, life could be realdamn good and you've done all
kinds of stuff which we'll getinto and you've written a book
and you're just like a source ofyou know.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I think personally like a safety net, positivity
and kind of like oh, I feel somuch less alone I'm.
That's really what I wantedwhen I left.
My seven-year treatment journeywithout kids was a living,
breathing human that wasn't fullof toxic positivity and
positive affirmations, but butsomeone who was like this sucks,
(07:06):
this is not where you expectedto be, this is not why you work
so hard, but you're here Now howare we going to get through it?
So now what?
Speaker 2 (07:16):
So tell us a little bit about your journey.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Well, it started.
I got married at 35.
I was always very career drivensocial travel, like all the fun
things and I met my husband at32.
We got married I was 35.
And after about two years itwas actually a friend of mine
who had gone through fertilitytreatments.
That said to me you know howyou and Jack thinking about
(07:42):
having kids, and I was like,yeah, we've been trying.
And she said you know, I'm nottrying to get in your business,
but I just want you to know thatyou might want to have some
workup done.
And I it was like this lightbulb went off, which is kind of
crazy because in hindsight I'mlike how did I not think of that
sooner?
So she gave me the name of herreproductive endocrinologist in
(08:03):
Chicago.
I went for a workup and at 37, Iwas diagnosed with unexplained
infertility and that was thefirst time that I can recall in
my life.
Feeling so helpless and beingcalled unexplained to begin with
as a clinical diagnosis justblows my fucking mind.
That people say that.
You know like, how is thatsomeone unexplained?
(08:25):
But that was my diagnosis andmy husband and I then started a
seven year off and on treatmentpath.
We started in Chicago.
We did nearly seven IUIs, Ibelieve, which is crazy, and a
couple rounds in Chicago.
And when that didn't result inany frozen embryos, we had one
(08:49):
fresh transfer, no frozenembryos.
We decided to take a break.
I was in my 40s at that point.
I was 41 and took a break.
And then again another friendwith infertility was like hey,
are you sure you're ready tohang it up?
And I needed that voice to kindof question me because I had
been back and forth on it myself.
(09:12):
And she started going to aclinic out in Colorado and she's
like you know, it's totallydifferent than doing your
full-time job and living yourlife in Chicago and then doing
infertility treatments on top ofthat.
It's a totally different vibe.
When you go out to Colorado,you stay in a hotel, you kind of
just check out from real life.
(09:32):
And I decided to do that.
So I went to a clinic inColorado and pursued three more
rounds and had one frozen embryofrom my first round and had one
frozen embryo from my firstround and at the end of those
three rounds that was the onlything that we had to move
forward with.
And we got it chromosomallytested and it had trisomy 16.
(09:54):
And I was told that it wouldnever be viable for implantation
.
And that's where our treatmentpath ended.
And what was the moment?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Do you?
Speaker 1 (10:27):
remember the breaking point where you were like, okay
, I'm absolutely done, pathended and it's just the epitome
of like, maybe I'll get 12 to 15or what you know.
It's like this, you know theepitome of the number, and then
you don't get there and it isjust a I don't even know the
word to describe it like.
It's just like you fall off ofa building, and so what was the
moment with you and your partner?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Do you remember?
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Well, we were on the phone with our reproductive
endocrinologist because this was2018.
So Zoom wasn't really a bigthing and we were doing remote
cycles in Colorado and it wasactually his advice that I don't
move forward with more.
I was grateful that he washonest with me.
(11:07):
He said you know, we've changedyour protocols, we've tried
different things.
Your results seem to be thesame.
It's up to you if you want todo more, but I'd advise that if
you do more, expect the sameoutcome.
And that's kind of what Ineeded to hear.
He didn't tell me no.
I felt like he gave me theoption to decide whether I
(11:33):
wanted to.
But just intellectually, I justsort of knew, like, why am I
going to continue to do this?
And is it really because I wantthe baby or is it because my
desire to succeed and achievethe goal and do the thing that
seemed impossible was thatreally the thing that was
calling me towards moving ahead?
So in the end, they offeredadoption and egg donor services
and we contemplated adoption fora long time but decided that
(11:56):
that wasn't the right answer forus.
Maybe it was both right.
Maybe you did always want to bea mom and you're a very driven
person and it was both of thosethings.
It's possible, yeah, and that'spossible, yeah, yeah.
I just felt like I I didn'treally know my why anymore and I
think that's really what itcame down to was.
I looked at you know, I was 44and it's I was looking at my
(12:19):
friends and they were all hadtheir kids and my dreams of
raising my kids with my bestfriends, kids and the milestones
of enjoying motherhood together.
I felt like that was gone.
Some of my friends from highschool you know I'm seeing on
Facebook they're alreadygrandparents and I'm like what
the hell?
Like I'm just trying to likepop out a kid and they're like
grandparents already.
(12:39):
So it just felt like this lossof identity.
Really.
Like, who am I Like?
Who am I turning into?
And I think that there was partof me that just wanted to move
forward and find the peacebecause my life felt like it was
in a holding pattern for solong.
He was very much what I wantedto do.
(13:02):
I felt like he was in alignmentwith there were.
When we started our fertilitytreatments, we agreed that we
would be on each other's sidewith whatever felt right for us.
So in the beginning he didn'treally want to do ICSI.
He thought it was importantthat you know the sperm and the
egg find each other and thatthere was some sort of natural
formation.
Well, that one we gave that upfor a while.
(13:26):
We were doing ICSI soon afterour first couple rounds did not
result in a pregnancy, but therewas a mutual respect, I think,
of what felt right for us.
So I felt very supported by himand in hindsight I don't think
I really took his opinion intoaccount much.
I, more so, felt like I borethe burden of infertility
(13:50):
because I was the one who wasinfertile it wasn't male factor,
so I felt like I was the onewho was carrying everything.
So I don't think I asked him alot, but he never made a big
deal out of it.
This is probably a dumb question, because I think the grieving
process for things probablynever ends.
It gets better, it's different.
(14:11):
But how was that process foryou?
When you finally were like,okay, this is definite, we're
done, the finality of that, andthen you trying to sort through
the new reality, your identity,what you're going to do, moving
forward, I felt really lost.
(14:32):
I felt like I needed to show upbold and together and very
unaffected.
I think that's how I showed upin my corporate life.
Very unaffected, I think that'show I showed up in my corporate
life.
I would go to work events and Ialways had like the best outfit
and the best handbag and theone that people would look at
and be like, oh my God, like nothaving kids must be wonderful.
(14:54):
It was this facade that I feltlike I needed to put on to make
people think I was okay.
And I remember coming home fromevents and just feeling
exhausted because I had put thisact on of who I was.
So I was very much living inshame of not being able to
figure out something that mostpeople just are able to do, and
(15:16):
so I think for me I just reallywanted to feel connected to
myself, but I didn't know how.
I wasn't offered any resourcesof where to go.
I wasn't even offered atherapist by my clinic when I
found out that we were finishingtreatment and I didn't know how
to achieve that connection withsomebody.
(15:37):
I didn't see people around mewho had gone through IVF and
didn't end up as parents.
So I alienated myself somewhatfrom my friends because I didn't
want to be the wet towel ontheir excitement about their
kids' birthday parties and babyshowers and things like that.
So I just pulled away andbecame really alienated from
(15:57):
people that I was usually thecheerleader for.
So I judged myself a lot too,like am I a bad friend?
Am I this horrible jealousperson who can't be happy for
somebody who got their dreambecause I was so lost in not
having mine?
Speaker 2 (16:14):
I feel like that's something a lot of people can
relate to, and knowing thatthere's duality, you know,
knowing that you can I can lookat my friends and be joyful for
them, but I can also beheartbroken for me is, I think,
a concept that's foreign topeople, I'm glad we're talking
(16:38):
about it and I'm glad thatpeople on the outside can
understand that, that you aren'tthis horrible jealous person
who's small and just doesn'twant to be there for people.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
You are a very loving person who has been dealt a
hand and a card in their hand isheartbreaking beyond measure,
and so you can carry thosethings, but it's hard to carry
it all it really is.
Yeah, the grief part is, Ithink, the most foreign thing,
because I wasn't grieving a loss.
(17:10):
I never once had a positivepregnancy test, so I never had a
pregnancy loss.
There was like I felt like Iwasn't entitled to my grief
because I wasn't grievinganything but a dream, yeah, but
I mean, coco, we have company.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Coco, what are you a?
Speaker 1 (17:35):
pit bull.
Yeah, coco, we have company.
Kate's here.
Look, this is Coco.
How are you, kate?
Hi, how are you?
Good, coco, we have company.
Oh, she is.
Oh, there we go.
Yeah, right now you'rerecording.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Okay, she looks fine.
I think you might have bumpedit a little bit, is it fine?
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yeah, coco, kate's here.
I'm going to take a sip andthen can you turn my recording
off for now, if you don't mind.
This one, just for now.
I'm afraid my battery's goingto die.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Okay, you saw it, if you don't mind this one just for
now.
I'm afraid my battery's goingto die Hi.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
That's my life story with the charger with the
charger.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
I was downstairs sniffing around people's offices
like nothing to see here, justlooking for a wire.
I was doing that for scissors.
One day I was down there.
Like I know, one of thesestores has a scissor.
Excuse me, the grief.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yes, can you remember some of the things that were
sort?
Speaker 2 (19:17):
of like a lighthouse for you.
Was it a person?
The grief yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
I wish I could tell you yes and like for me it was
my weight gain from my fertilitytreatments.
And when I finished mytreatments, I gave up on my body
and I was like I'm just goingto eat like shit.
Who cares?
This body's broken, I don'tneed to care for it.
And when the pandemic came andthe world shut down and I was
(19:52):
working from home and not ableto find my purpose through my
job because that was somethingthat really gave me purpose or
so I thought I realized that Ijust couldn't stand the person I
saw in the mirror andphysically I looked to me
terrible.
I didn't fit in my clothes, Ididn't feel attractive to my
(20:12):
husband, I didn't want to youknow, have sex Like I.
Just everything just felt likeso out of whack.
And I started working with aweight loss coach who turned out
to be a life coach and I neverknew any.
I heard of life coaching but Inever really understood the
principles of it.
I thought it was somebody withlike a clipboard telling you
like this is what you need to do.
(20:39):
And I worked with this womanthrough creating a new
relationship with my body andforgiving my body for not being
able to reproduce.
And that's when the light wenton for me, that the story that
I'd been believing about myselfdidn't have to be true anymore.
And she was really the personthat flipped the switch for me
and put the switch on, if youwill that my story doesn't have
(20:59):
to look like the vision that Ithought my future would look
like, because I didn't have kids.
You know the sad person, theone that people obligatorily
invite to Thanksgiving because,oh, you know, they don't have
fam, they don't have kids, theydon't have this.
So I just always thought Iwould have this sort of sad life
, and working with her made merealize that I could rewrite my
(21:22):
story, and that's when I decidedI wanted to do this for women
who are childless afterinfertility, because I could not
find anyone who was doing thiswork.
What was?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
the first thing that you did?
Did you jump on Instagram?
I started my podcast.
I could not find anyone who wasdoing this work.
What was the first thing thatyou did?
Did you jump on?
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Instagram.
What was your first step?
I started my podcast.
That was in 2021, september of21.
I was in my closet with a pairof earbuds and if someone goes
and listens to probably episode1 through 20, I sometimes get
embarrassed because it's likesuper shitty quality, but the
content is great and I told mystory really for the first time,
(21:56):
and my mom I remember tellingme oh my gosh, honey, I didn't
know you were going through allof this.
It was like so self-disclosingof things that I had never told
people before.
And then the emails startedcoming in of oh my gosh, you're
the first person I've ever heardsay this.
Like I thought I was the onlyone.
I didn't know.
Other people were experiencingthis and I have chills right now
(22:19):
just thinking about how manypeople needed to hear this
message and how proud I am thatI found the way to share it.
And it probably was like afloodgate, I can imagine, of
people being like hey, me tooover here.
This happened Because peopleare so ashamed.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
There's not an open space, there's stigma, there's
othering.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
There's so much that leads you to do anything but
open up.
Yeah, and I think people are.
Often they feel misunderstoodbecause people are always
offering you suggestions ofthings, that things that you
should continue to try toachieve motherhood.
You know they're relaxed, it'llhappen, pray on it or god has
his ways.
You know all these things thatdon't address the fact that
(23:06):
motherhood isn't part of yourfuture.
So it's you.
You feel really used to beingmisunderstood and trying to be
fixed by everybody and to beable to be in a space where
people can acknowledge that youare moving forward without kids
and the fixing doesn't need tohappen through having a child,
(23:28):
like to me, that is the storyand the words that most people
don't hear that you can create alife that you love, even though
you didn't have the childrenthat you dreamed of.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
All the time, yeah, everywhere.
Yeah, like I was at the grocerystore the other day and there
was a mother pushing her baby inthe carriage and they stopped
at the deli counter.
I was waiting for my monstercheese and I love monster cheese
, oh, it's so good um, and shewas doing this little piggy on
the toes of her baby.
(24:07):
And you know my eyes filledwith tears, and not from a place
of jealousy, but a place oflike.
What a beautiful connection,something that I'll never have,
and there was part of me thatmourns that, but I don't.
I don't judge myself formourning it, even though 2018
was when I found out that myjourney to parenthood was going
(24:30):
to be and or was ending.
Found out that my journey toparenthood was going to be end
or was ending, and, yeah, for along time, walking through
Target, through the maternitysection, was really hard for me,
seeing the mannequins with thematernity outfits, because, you
know, I love my fashion and Ialways, you know, imagine having
like the cute maternity clothesand yeah, so I think there are
(24:50):
moments that I see familiestogether and think, you know,
they're making their memoriesthat they're going to have for
the next 50 years and mymemories just are going to look
different, and that's okay too.
But I think it's reallyimportant to acknowledge that
the grief doesn't have to fullybe gone for you to feel like
you're moving ahead.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah, and I think that's a lot of people go
through grief, be gone for youto feel, you know, and then
sometimes you bring it down andyou're like and you put it back
(25:35):
up, but it's something you livewith.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Yeah, and I actually I have an advanced coaching
certification in grief andpost-traumatic growth because I
think that there is such a highlevel of grief it's called
disenfranchised grief that womenare going through because they
don't feel validated to talkabout grieving a dream, but that
dream you had for your futurefelt so real that it feels like
(26:00):
you physically lost someone orlost something.
And I also think it's importantfor women to know that grief is
an emotion and sadness is anemotion, happiness is an emotion
, excitement is an emotion, andI think we get way too into the
(26:23):
weeds of classifying emotions asgood and bad emotions.
So we think grief is a badthing to do and to feel and to
have.
So we judge ourselves when wefeel that sadness and that grief
.
You mentioned and I love thisthat you're interested in
following women who, when theyleave the fertility specialist
without having a child.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
What's their story?
What happens?
Who's caring for them?
What kind of bridge are peoplegiving them Right?
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Talk a little more about that.
Right, I am just blown away,and maybe because I spent 20
years in the medical field priorto leaving my job this past
July.
There was clinical data oneverything.
You know.
There's all these studies goingon and I started asking, like,
what studies are there, whatdata points are there about
women who leave treatmentwithout a child and the people
(27:13):
at big universities?
I've asked them, I've askedpsychologists, psychiatrists.
People say you know, we don'tfollow them, we don't know.
Do they go on to go to anotherclinic?
Do they go on to adopt, get asurrogate?
Like nobody knows this and I'mlike, how do we not know this?
So it's my goal to find someway to create the funding to get
(27:36):
the study going so that we canactually know.
Did women leave treatment?
Were they offered mental healthservices?
I was not.
I was offered adoption or eggdonor.
No one said, hey, we have atherapist we'd like to refer to
you.
So where are these women goingand how are they moving forward
in their lives, Feeling asthough they're supported and
(27:58):
relevant, even when they're nota billable patient?
Yeah, I decided about two yearsago.
Yeah, it was.
How do I say it?
It was very therapeutic for me,and not necessarily like
putting the words on paper, butknowing that I'm creating a
(28:19):
roadmap for somebody that I wishI had and that's really.
I just wanted someone to saylike here's a book, here's a
podcast, here's a Facebook likesomething, and I got none of
that.
And I think about theterminally ill patient who
somebody tells them readTuesdays with Maury.
You know like everybody gets aresource, but why do women who
(28:42):
leave treatment not get aresource?
So I wrote so now what to be aroadmap that women can follow
along.
There's different chapters inthree different sections and the
way I wrote the book, you don'thave to start it front to back
when you look at the chapternames and what I'm talking about
(29:02):
.
You can just pick it up and belike, oh, I got an invite to a
baby shower, how do I respond?
And there's a whole chapter onbaby shower invites.
There's one about holidays.
So when you don't have thefamily traditions of Christmas
to pass down, what do you do andhow do you feel connected
around the holidays to yourselfand your life?
So the book I really love that.
(29:24):
It's resourceful but real.
I think I'm not a toxicpositivity person.
I talked about that already.
I think I'm not a toxicpositivity person.
I talked about that already.
I think it's real important tobe like, honest and open about
the trenches that you're in andacknowledging that you're there,
but how do you move ahead andcome out of them for air every
(29:45):
once in a while?
I think for me, the parts arepurpose the part about creating
your purpose.
I think a lot of us as womenthink that your purpose is
automatically defined by being amother.
So I know for me and many ofthe clients that I work with in
my coaching practice they cometo me being like I don't know
(30:06):
what my purpose is, and I have atotally different perspective
on purpose.
I don't think it's somethingthat we declare for ourselves.
I think if we're connected towho we are and we show up as the
badass women that we are,people take from us what they
need.
So I look back I give thisexample all the time my second
(30:27):
grade teacher.
Maybe she was a mom, Maybe shewas a wife to somebody, Maybe,
who knows, she was active in herchurch community.
I don't know, but the purposeshe played for me, the purpose
she played in my life, was toteach me the times tables and
math and all these things thathave been the foundation of me
(30:48):
moving head in my life, knowinghow to do arithmetic.
So she showed that You're goingto edit this out because I'm
getting For me.
That was the purpose she playedin my life, and I think about
people who meet me and somebodycan take one thing about meeting
me and somebody can findanother reason that was
(31:09):
impactful or resourceful aboutmeeting me.
So I let people decide for themwhat my purpose is and it keeps
me from chasing this rubberstamp of like here's my purpose
and you have to declare it forlife and have it be this big,
huge thing that you feel isimpressive.
And I think we make purposereally hard for ourselves.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
I like that and I agree with that.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
it's just showing up and being you and being
connected to who you are.
Life just flows that way.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
What's your advice on the holidays?
Speaker 1 (31:58):
I think you have to learn how to create your own
traditions and we get stuck inthis like, oh well, you know,
grandma Mabel always made thesecookies.
Like, maybe you'll be the firstone to bring a new recipe into
the family, maybe you'll decideto go out of town for the
holidays.
I think we always think we haveto show up and we put what's
(32:19):
expected of us, from our familyor from the traditions and we
forget that we have our owntraditions that we can make.
What about baby showers?
Baby showers it's difficultbecause we don't want to seem
(32:43):
like we're the bad friend whocan't be happy.
What about baby showers?
So maybe you want to go anddrop off a present, and that's
going to be your thing, and youjust tell yourself, okay, I'm
going to go, I'm going to takemy present, I'm going to make an
excuse that I got somewhereelse to be, but you didn't want
to miss it.
I'm going to see how I feel andmaybe I'll stay and stick
around for the games.
You know they always do likethe games guess the name.
(33:14):
Maybe, if I feel okay, I'llstay longer, but segmenting the
event so that you don't feellike, oh my God, I got to stay
here for three hours and bebombarded.
So create a plan for yourselfbefore you go.
But if you decide that you don'twant to go, it's okay to make
up an excuse that you can't bethere.
You don't have to tell someone.
It's hard for you, but maybeyou can tell someone.
You know I love you so much,carrie.
I wish I could be there.
But this is just a really hardtime for me and I think that's
(33:35):
really important.
And I think we worry about ourfriends judging us or seeing us
as weak or jealous, andoftentimes we create that
self-judgment for ourself and wedon't allow ourselves to really
listen to our needs becausewe're too worried what people
are going to think about us andhow they're going married and
(33:55):
then they're having kids most,if not like none of those girls
are probably going to have theforesight to even understand
what you're going through, andso you are going to be judged.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
And that's the thing where it's, I think, the
awareness of it and saying andsaying like okay, so the people
who are having an easy timehaving kids amazing, but there
are people out there who are not, so if your friend happens to
be one, of them show some gracelike.
I know it's your baby showerand I know it's about you and
you're excited, but there's areal reason here why this person
(34:47):
can't support you at thismoment.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
They're just not being a dick yeah, yeah, and
sometimes what I would do too islike I'd volunteer to host,
because hosting kept my brainoff of being an attendee.
Yeah, yeah, so I would.
I'm like, one of my bestfriends had a baby shower and I
had it at my house and you know,it kept me included, but not at
(35:11):
the forefront because I coulddisappear.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I, youknow I'm really lucky.
My friends, um, there's a groupof four of us.
We've been friends for years.
One is a foster mom to two highschool girls.
Uh, one is an IVF mom ofidentical twins.
Her embryo split this is theone who told me to go to
Colorado and so she hasidentical twin girls.
(35:33):
And then my other mom my otherbest friend is a single mom by
choice and I'm a dog mom and wegot, we got everything.
We got the smorgasbord, yeah onthe rise, baby.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Yeah, on the rise yeah, she knew she.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
I think she saw that my friend who went through IVF
and me struggling and she hadn'tmet the person that she wanted
to settle down with and sheknowingly got pregnant with
someone that she was dating andtold him.
You know, like listen, I don'texpect you to be part of the
baby's life, but I want to havea kid.
And he was game and theyco-parent.
They don't live together to bepart of the baby's life, but I
want to have a kid.
He was game and they co-parent.
They don't live together butthey co-parent.
(36:15):
The daughter is now eight yearsold and it works out great.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Good.
So how has your relationshipwith the Hubs evolved and how
are you guys starting traditionsand what are you doing?
To sort of maximize thischildless life, honey, because
let me tell you, those of usthat have youngins, we are
living vicariously through this.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
That's funny, make no mistake.
You know, I think a lot ofpeople think that automatically
your life just turns into jetsetting and going here and going
there.
But, just like people who areparents of kids, you've got to
plan for it, because if youdon't have a plan, it's like, oh
, we need to go to Italy, butunless you plan it, it just
(36:57):
keeps being the thing on theradar.
That said, we oftentimes dothings on a limb, like we'll go
to Europe with a month's noticeor be on vacation and not sure
where our next destination is inbetween now and our flight home
, and that part is really fun.
But as far as the relationshipgoes, I would be remiss without
(37:18):
saying there was times when Iwondered if our relationship was
going to be enough without kids.
My rock, like he supported methrough everything and was there
(37:39):
to pick me up, when times weremore times, you know,
heartbreaking than they werejoyful and I didn't know if we'd
have enough substance in ourrelationship to continue.
But I think it's important torecognize why did you marry that
person?
Like, yeah, there's greattraits that you were like, oh,
when we have kids, they're goingto have his brown eyes and he's
six, six and so hot.
(38:00):
But yeah, I really try to goback and remember like, what was
it about him that attracted meto him, and look for those
qualities and see that withoutparenthood he's still that same
person.
And on our anniversary wealways talk about what do we
want to do more of as a couple,but also as individuals, because
(38:20):
I think it's important for usto have our own personal goals
and achievements for ourselves,not just as a unit.
So when he wants to go on a skitrip with the guys, I'm always
like go.
I love that.
I want him to not be reliant onme as his own social outlet.
So for us, I think we reallydeliberately create this goal or
(38:44):
these like life dreams,together as couples, but also as
individuals.
And then we also have this cutething.
He started it, so I'll give himcredit.
It's a cute little piggy bankand in the piggy bank you put
little notes to each other andit could be anything from dinner
was awesome tonight, or youlooked so beautiful when you
(39:06):
were sleeping, or whatever, andhe started this piggy bank.
So now we do this and we droplittle notes into each other and
at the end of the year we emptythe piggy bank and read our
notes to one another.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel likeyou're such a dick.
That's my birthday, may 14th,by the way.
(39:27):
I'm like how did you know that?
No, he's a gift, a good giftgiver, so I would never say that
on may 14th.
But, um, yeah, uh, we haven'tgotten to that point yet.
But where we put, where we putshitty notes in, but yeah, yeah,
yes, we just say it out loud.
(39:48):
We don't have to, we don't haveto mince words, yeah, I'm sure
you guys, like I would imagineyeah, yeah yeah, we're very, um,
(40:21):
we're very willing to explorenew ways to develop ourselves,
to develop our, our friendshipwith each other, because I think
that you, you lose that you,you think that kids are going to
be the thing that keeps youtogether and, like, for me, I'm
always like.
(40:41):
I texted him last night and Ijust said I love you and I'm
proud of you.
Because who tells you that,like, when you become an adult,
you know you and you don't havethe kids to tell that too.
So sometimes that language getslost and I, really, I I try to
like, build us up and createthis like friendship that is so
(41:02):
rock solid, because it really is, and it's not just like this
facade of like, oh, this great,you know couple who doesn't have
kids, who gets to do this andgets to do that, like there's
times that become lonely too,and and I think it's important
to recognize both of them.
I bet he's really proud of you.
Yes, watching you turn yourpain into purpose like this and
(41:25):
be a light for other people hasto be like that's my girl,
because not everybody does that.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
I mean, a lot of people can allow the pain to
take them over, and then they'reunderneath it to such an extent
that it sort of calcifies andthere you are, you know, and so
for you to not only figure thisout, but to be like I'm not just
gonna figure this out, I'mgonna be like the spokesperson
(41:51):
for this shit.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
You know that's pretty badass, thank you, yeah,
he is, um, he's dentist, so he'stalking to people all day long,
or you know.
It's like when you go to thedentist and they ask you a
question, you can't answer.
How annoying that is.
That's how I met him.
He was my dentist and I fell inlove with him.
Yes, I found every excuse tokeep going back there.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
I was like teeth whitening this, this, um, yeah
so you walk in there and that'sthe most like vulnerable,
unattractive, you're like ahright and you're loving this guy
.
You're thinking he's hot, likehow did you end up?
Speaker 1 (42:28):
well, we, we live in chicago and as big of a city as
chicago is, we ended up runninginto each other out one night
and I was with another guy whowas like a random date that I
knew wasn't going anywhere andI'm like, oh shit, the one time
I see him out of the officewhere I have my chance.
I got this guy with me.
So I trotted over, I said tothe guy I was with I was like
(42:48):
I'll be right back, I'm going tothe bathroom and I trotted over
to Dr Jack and I was like hiand he was like, introduced to
me, my friend, to his friends,like oh, this is my patient,
lana.
And then I was like, well, Igotta go my cousin's in from out
of town and you know, we'regoing to meet some friends.
And so we bolted because he'sJack, my husband is super
friendly guy.
I could see him coming over andbeing like how are you related?
(43:10):
So, uh, we left.
And then a couple weeks later Iwent to the same place and he
happened to be there again andwe left.
And then a couple weeks later Iwent to the same place and he
happened to be there again andwe left together and went and we
got a bottle of wine and we saton Ohio Street Beach in Chicago
.
They had this like biglifeguard chair and just hung
out until like 4 am.
And yeah, that was history,that's right girl.
(43:35):
You're like you walked overthere and you're like, do you
remember these two?
That's right girl, that's rightbaby.
He's funny because he'll belike I can't remember anyone's
name until I see their teeth andI'm like, oh, I remember this
person, they're mine, thank you,they're beautiful.
They almost look like theycould be the nearest you.
(43:57):
You know, teeth are geneticlike.
My sister is a patient of myhusband's too and he's like, oh
my gosh, when your sister comesin, you guys have such similar
teeth.
And I was like, oh, I didn'trealize teeth were kind of a
genetic trait, yeah, so anyway,we could go on and on about
dentistry.
(44:18):
I was like I am not letting thisguy get out the door thinking I
got a boyfriend, um, but yeah,I still remember these cute
little like eyelet white shortsand a tank top.
This was gosh 2000.
We got married in 09.
This would have been like 2006yeah, always, yeah, 2006.
Yeah, always, yeah, I am.
Yeah, I left.
(44:38):
I worked in the medical devicefield.
I was a sales rep for a largemedical device company for 20
years and I was doing both.
In 2021 is when I started thepodcast and I finished my life
coach certification and pushcame to shove.
I was turning 50 in May of lastyear and I was like this is my
time, like people are like 50,wah, wah.
(45:01):
I was like I can't wait to be50.
So I gave my resignation thenight before my 50th and I've
been doing this since July oflast year.
Yeah, totally, totally, I don'tthink twice about it.
Yeah, I gave him three monthsnotice because you know I care.
(45:22):
You know that was my baby, myjob was my baby, my territory.
You know, if you're a sales rep, it's like you nurture those
relationships and there's youget personal, you get invited to
their kids' birthday partiesand events and I didn't want to
leave my customers high and dry,and I gave them three months'
(45:42):
notice and I haven't looked back.
I'm just so happy I'm doing thiswork, but also it frees me up
to be more available to thepeople that need it.
So I have clients in Australianow and the time zone before if
I was working, I couldn't takeon people that were not in my
same time zone because the timedifference.
Now I have clientsinternationally.
(46:04):
I can do things in the middleof the day where I couldn't do
that when I was working.
Are they all women who didn'thave children?
Yes, yeah, I sometimes willhave people come to me that are
kind of in the midst of not surewhat's next and I'll kind of
help understand.
Like, are you sure you want tostop?
If you don't want to stop, Ihave people that I can refer you
(46:26):
to.
There's coaches that help womenas they're going through
treatment.
But yeah, for me it's reallyimportant to support the women
who know that they're movingforward without kids.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
Yeah, so is the lion's share of what you're
doing, the actual coachingcomponent.
So you're author, podcast host,coach yes.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
Is that?
Speaker 2 (46:45):
like the big need of it.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
Yeah, well, I also founded something called the
Others Day Brunch yeah, so Istarted that four years ago, in
2022.
It's an event the day beforeMother's Day.
It happens in Chicago and it'sfor women who don't have kids
for whatever reason, women whomight still be going through
treatment, who you know Mother'sDay feels hard for them, women
who've lost their mom or don'thave an active mother figure in
(47:09):
their life.
So it's kind of a pan reasonthat you might feel called to be
connected during Mother's Dayweekend.
So people come from all over.
I've had people from PuertoRico, massachusetts, florida,
texas.
Like people will fly in, peoplethat follow me on social media
and they're like I want to dothis and I have such admiration.
(47:30):
Like people get on an airplaneto come and spend two and a half
hours in Chicago with a groupof women to feel as though they
were connected.
Like that is badass.
Well, and that also tells yousomething you know it's very
much needed and you should dothe other thing, like you could
branch that out and city to city.
Yeah, I do have some people whoare ambassadors, but I'm really
(47:52):
particular about how it'shandled.
I am working on the trademarkfor it now.
We're in the final processes ofthat.
God, that's been a process, yeah, but yeah, I mean I like that
people come in for it, becausethere's something really special
about meeting people from allwalks of life and people that
(48:16):
come from different parts of theUS.
I mean, hopefullyinternationally one day, but I
really love the fact that peopleadvocate for themselves and
they say I need this.
To me, that is such a testamentof how you're showing up for
yourself, because I think we'renot taught how to show up for
yourself and go after what youneed.
(48:36):
There's so much of life that Ithink passes us by because we're
like, oh, it'll be weird, or oh, I don't know anyone, or oh,
you know, like what are peoplegoing to think that I need this
for myself?
So, yeah, the others day brunchis happening May 10th in
Chicago.
So that's my vision.
(48:58):
Yeah, it's happening May 10thin Chicago.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
That's my vision.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
Yeah, yes, I totally want it to be like a wellness,
personal development, focus onyourself, get what you need,
like I have visions of, likesound baths and yoga and
speakers.
You know, not just me.
Yeah, girl, I love that.
(49:30):
Yeah, there you go.
No em dashes, don't you hatethat.
There you go.
No M dashes, don't you hatethat?
Okay, I've got to say like,since ChatGPT came along, the
use of the dash, I felt like,was so unique to me, like I
always used dashes instead ofcommas, and now everyone is
(49:53):
using these fucking dashes andI'm'm like that is not yours.
It's irritating.
Yeah, I love chat gbd, don'tget me wrong.
(50:16):
When I do my podcast, I take myscript and I throw it in there
and it does my show notes andall that and it's made my life
better, but I just get reallypissed off about the dashes.
Yeah, I'm a dash girl.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
Okay, so someone's out there listening right now.
Their ears are perked up.
Out there listening right now,their ears are perked up Is
there anything else that youwant to say?
Speaker 1 (50:45):
You know, I created a really good resource that a lot
of people have found valuable.
It's called the top 27 thingspeople say when you're childless
and how to respond, because Ithink when you get those
questions of how many kids doyou have, or you're at a work
event, you're meeting a newgroup of people and everyone's
talking about their kids orquestion you.
So I would advise people.
It's a free download on mywebsite, londonmanikowskicom.
(51:06):
It's really helpful too ifyou're on the other side of
things and you're like I'mworking with someone going
through infertility.
What are some things I shouldavoid saying.
So I would say that is a reallygreat tool to have, whether
you're on the infertility sideor the friend and advocate side.
(51:26):
Yes, lanamanikowski, if you canspell my last name, I know she's
just happy to be here.
Yes, now we get to drive backfive hours.
She loves the car, so we'regoing to go for a ride.
Yes, oh, I'm so glad to be heretime.
(51:50):
Go follow Lana and keep moving.
Aww, see, she knows when thingsare over.
That's such a great way to endthe show when I finish my calls.
Speaker 2 (52:03):
Oh my God, she's so sweet.
a pair of Valentino slides for like $3.79.
I know they must have had a biglast year's liquidation or
something that they sent off tothe rack.
Coco, nobody's going to bug you.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm just going to do this for your mom.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
This is good.
I had to wear my.
I turned 50 in May.
My parents got me this and itsays you always shine like a
star, thank you.
They had it engraved in theback.
So I was like, okay, I'll wearthis today.
(01:03):
Those eyeballs, she'll get hotin the middle and she'll get up
(01:46):
and move.
I got lots of those, all right.
Resting bitch face.
Yeah, okay, I got lots of thoseresting bitchface.
Yeah, okay, will you stop mycamera right here and then we'll
(02:08):
restart right before you sitdown so I don't run out of
battery.
You're going to have someoneelse to meet.
What's her name?
Yeah, kate's going to be herelater.
(02:29):
Yeah, I'm on these new menopause, hair loss, um vitamins and so
I feel it, I have a lot of newhair growth and I feel like I've
got these alpha.
Yeah, I, they're from london,from the uk gloa, I'll send you
the link, but I order them andthey ship um, but yeah, I've got
(02:51):
like a ton of new hair growth.
So my thanks, thanks.
Well, I just I was saying Ihave a lot of little flyaways
because it's new growth.
Okay, oh god, okay, oh good,okay, never know.
(03:16):
Okay, you know you're going tobe sitting in the car for a long
time.
Are you sure you want to bethis curled up?
She does love the car.
I know it's nice.
(03:38):
That's why, when the dog walkercancelled, I was like, okay,
we're going to do a girls trip.
Walker canceled and I was like,okay, we're gonna do a girl's
trip, okay, test.
Um, I don't consider myselfsoft spoken.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I don't know the answer to that I might feel like
it's super close to you, butthat's okay, try not to bump
into it.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
I might feel like it's super close to you, but
that's okay.
Okay, I'm trying not to bumpinto it.
Are you sure my can's notruining your set?
I can move it.
No, okay, I'm fine with it, youare?
Yeah, you can do it.
Probably not because I won't beable to reach it.
Or maybe we can put it downhere and I can grab it.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, I'll go back here.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
I'll take it that way .
I don't have to bug you thisdog takes priority over my life.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Coco's on.
Okay, coco and Lana, coco andLana Manikowski.
Welcome to the.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
I am so good.
How are you?
I'm so good.
I'm really glad to be here.
You came all the way fromChi-Town.
I did.
I wanted a little road trip.
We did a girls' night inColumbus.
Where did you stay?
We stayed at the A-Loft, whichwas super dog-friendly.
Coco got her own ball.
They had like treats for her.
What did you had like treatsfor her.
(05:49):
So I didn't eat dinner.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I just yeah, we just kind of got in around 7, 30 and
chilled out.
Yeah, I'm just, I'm soflattered.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah, I know you offered uh zoom and I was like,
ah, I don't know.
I felt like we'd vibe better inperson, so I'm glad to be here
anytime I can get somebody here,as opposed to remote, I'm all
about it.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yeah, so you, just like many women that we have
been talking to and some men inthe month of April, you've gone
through your own long battlewith infertility and for you the
ending was you didn't have anykids and so you have become an
advocate and a voice and sort ofthis light for people who, at
(06:28):
the end of this journey if it'slike, hey, I don't want to go
through anything else, I'm donethey can look to you and be like
, well, shit, life could be realdamn good and you've done all
kinds of stuff which we'll getinto and you've written a book
and you're just like a source ofyou know.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I think personally like a safety net, positivity
and kind of like oh, I feel somuch less alone I'm.
That's really what I wantedwhen I left.
My seven-year treatment journeywithout kids was a living,
breathing human that wasn't fullof toxic positivity and
positive affirmations, but butsomeone who was like this sucks,
(07:06):
this is not where you expectedto be, this is not why you work
so hard, but you're here Now howare we going to get through it?
So now what?
Speaker 2 (07:16):
So tell us a little bit about your journey.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Well, it started.
I got married at 35.
I was always very career drivensocial travel, like all the fun
things and I met my husband at32.
We got married I was 35.
And after about two years itwas actually a friend of mine
who had gone through fertilitytreatments.
That said to me you know howyou and Jack thinking about
(07:42):
having kids, and I was like,yeah, we've been trying.
And she said you know, I'm nottrying to get in your business,
but I just want you to know thatyou might want to have some
workup done.
And I it was like this lightbulb went off, which is kind of
crazy because in hindsight I'mlike how did I not think of that
sooner?
So she gave me the name of herreproductive endocrinologist in
(08:03):
Chicago.
I went for a workup and at 37, Iwas diagnosed with unexplained
infertility and that was thefirst time that I can recall in
my life.
Feeling so helpless and beingcalled unexplained to begin with
as a clinical diagnosis justblows my fucking mind.
That people say that.
You know like, how is thatsomeone unexplained?
(08:25):
But that was my diagnosis andmy husband and I then started a
seven year off and on treatmentpath.
We started in Chicago.
We did nearly seven IUIs, Ibelieve, which is crazy, and a
couple rounds in Chicago.
And when that didn't result inany frozen embryos, we had one
(08:49):
fresh transfer, no frozenembryos.
We decided to take a break.
I was in my 40s at that point.
I was 41 and took a break.
And then again another friendwith infertility was like hey,
are you sure you're ready tohang it up?
And I needed that voice to kindof question me because I had
been back and forth on it myself.
(09:12):
And she started going to aclinic out in Colorado and she's
like you know, it's totallydifferent than doing your
full-time job and living yourlife in Chicago and then doing
infertility treatments on top ofthat.
It's a totally different vibe.
When you go out to Colorado,you stay in a hotel, you kind of
just check out from real life.
(09:32):
And I decided to do that.
So I went to a clinic inColorado and pursued three more
rounds and had one frozen embryofrom my first round and had one
frozen embryo from my firstround and at the end of those
three rounds that was the onlything that we had to move
forward with.
And we got it chromosomallytested and it had trisomy 16.
(09:54):
And I was told that it wouldnever be viable for implantation
.
And that's where our treatmentpath ended.
And what was the moment?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Do you?
Speaker 1 (10:27):
remember the breaking point where you were like, okay
, I'm absolutely done, pathended and it's just the epitome
of like, maybe I'll get 12 to 15or what you know.
It's like this, you know theepitome of the number, and then
you don't get there and it isjust a I don't even know the
word to describe it like.
It's just like you fall off ofa building, and so what was the
moment with you and your partner?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Do you remember?
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Well, we were on the phone with our reproductive
endocrinologist because this was2018.
So Zoom wasn't really a bigthing and we were doing remote
cycles in Colorado and it wasactually his advice that I don't
move forward with more.
I was grateful that he washonest with me.
(11:07):
He said you know, we've changedyour protocols, we've tried
different things.
Your results seem to be thesame.
It's up to you if you want todo more, but I'd advise that if
you do more, expect the sameoutcome.
And that's kind of what Ineeded to hear.
He didn't tell me no.
I felt like he gave me theoption to decide whether I
(11:33):
wanted to.
But just intellectually, I justsort of knew, like, why am I
going to continue to do this?
And is it really because I wantthe baby or is it because my
desire to succeed and achievethe goal and do the thing that
seemed impossible was thatreally the thing that was
calling me towards moving ahead?
So in the end, they offeredadoption and egg donor services
and we contemplated adoption fora long time but decided that
(11:56):
that wasn't the right answer forus.
Maybe it was both right.
Maybe you did always want to bea mom and you're a very driven
person and it was both of thosethings.
It's possible, yeah, and that'spossible, yeah, yeah.
I just felt like I I didn'treally know my why anymore and I
think that's really what itcame down to was.
I looked at you know, I was 44and it's I was looking at my
(12:19):
friends and they were all hadtheir kids and my dreams of
raising my kids with my bestfriends, kids and the milestones
of enjoying motherhood together.
I felt like that was gone.
Some of my friends from highschool you know I'm seeing on
Facebook they're alreadygrandparents and I'm like what
the hell?
Like I'm just trying to likepop out a kid and they're like
grandparents already.
(12:39):
So it just felt like this lossof identity.
Really.
Like, who am I Like?
Who am I turning into?
And I think that there was partof me that just wanted to move
forward and find the peacebecause my life felt like it was
in a holding pattern for solong.
He was very much what I wantedto do.
(13:02):
I felt like he was in alignmentwith there were.
When we started our fertilitytreatments, we agreed that we
would be on each other's sidewith whatever felt right for us.
So in the beginning he didn'treally want to do ICSI.
He thought it was importantthat you know the sperm and the
egg find each other and thatthere was some sort of natural
formation.
Well, that one we gave that upfor a while.
(13:26):
We were doing ICSI soon afterour first couple rounds did not
result in a pregnancy, but therewas a mutual respect, I think,
of what felt right for us.
So I felt very supported by himand in hindsight I don't think
I really took his opinion intoaccount much.
I, more so, felt like I borethe burden of infertility
(13:50):
because I was the one who wasinfertile it wasn't male factor,
so I felt like I was the onewho was carrying everything.
So I don't think I asked him alot, but he never made a big
deal out of it.
This is probably a dumb question, because I think the grieving
process for things probablynever ends.
It gets better, it's different.
(14:11):
But how was that process foryou?
When you finally were like,okay, this is definite, we're
done, the finality of that, andthen you trying to sort through
the new reality, your identity,what you're going to do, moving
forward, I felt really lost.
(14:32):
I felt like I needed to show upbold and together and very
unaffected.
I think that's how I showed upin my corporate life.
Very unaffected, I think that'show I showed up in my corporate
life.
I would go to work events and Ialways had like the best outfit
and the best handbag and theone that people would look at
and be like, oh my God, like nothaving kids must be wonderful.
(14:54):
It was this facade that I feltlike I needed to put on to make
people think I was okay.
And I remember coming home fromevents and just feeling
exhausted because I had put thisact on of who I was.
So I was very much living inshame of not being able to
figure out something that mostpeople just are able to do, and
(15:16):
so I think for me I just reallywanted to feel connected to
myself, but I didn't know how.
I wasn't offered any resourcesof where to go.
I wasn't even offered atherapist by my clinic when I
found out that we were finishingtreatment and I didn't know how
to achieve that connection withsomebody.
(15:37):
I didn't see people around mewho had gone through IVF and
didn't end up as parents.
So I alienated myself somewhatfrom my friends because I didn't
want to be the wet towel ontheir excitement about their
kids' birthday parties and babyshowers and things like that.
So I just pulled away andbecame really alienated from
(15:57):
people that I was usually thecheerleader for.
So I judged myself a lot too,like am I a bad friend?
Am I this horrible jealousperson who can't be happy for
somebody who got their dreambecause I was so lost in not
having mine?
Speaker 2 (16:14):
I feel like that's something a lot of people can
relate to, and knowing thatthere's duality, you know,
knowing that you can I can lookat my friends and be joyful for
them, but I can also beheartbroken for me is, I think,
a concept that's foreign topeople, I'm glad we're talking
(16:38):
about it and I'm glad thatpeople on the outside can
understand that, that you aren'tthis horrible jealous person
who's small and just doesn'twant to be there for people.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
You are a very loving person who has been dealt a
hand and a card in their hand isheartbreaking beyond measure,
and so you can carry thosethings, but it's hard to carry
it all it really is.
Yeah, the grief part is, Ithink, the most foreign thing,
because I wasn't grieving a loss.
(17:10):
I never once had a positivepregnancy test, so I never had a
pregnancy loss.
There was like I felt like Iwasn't entitled to my grief
because I wasn't grievinganything but a dream, yeah, but
I mean, coco, we have company.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Coco, what are you a?
Speaker 1 (17:35):
pit bull.
Yeah, coco, we have company.
Kate's here.
Look, this is Coco.
How are you, kate?
Hi, how are you?
Good, coco, we have company.
Oh, she is.
Oh, there we go.
Yeah, right now you'rerecording.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Okay, she looks fine.
I think you might have bumpedit a little bit, is it fine?
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yeah, coco, kate's here.
I'm going to take a sip andthen can you turn my recording
off for now, if you don't mind.
This one, just for now.
I'm afraid my battery's goingto die.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Okay, you saw it, if you don't mind this one just for
now.
I'm afraid my battery's goingto die Hi.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
That's my life story with the charger with the
charger.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
I was downstairs sniffing around people's offices
like nothing to see here, justlooking for a wire.
I was doing that for scissors.
One day I was down there.
Like I know, one of thesestores has a scissor.
Excuse me, the grief.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yes, can you remember some of the things that were
sort?
Speaker 2 (19:17):
of like a lighthouse for you.
Was it a person?
The grief yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
I wish I could tell you yes and like for me it was
my weight gain from my fertilitytreatments.
And when I finished mytreatments, I gave up on my body
and I was like I'm just goingto eat like shit.
Who cares?
This body's broken, I don'tneed to care for it.
And when the pandemic came andthe world shut down and I was
(19:52):
working from home and not ableto find my purpose through my
job because that was somethingthat really gave me purpose or
so I thought I realized that Ijust couldn't stand the person I
saw in the mirror andphysically I looked to me
terrible.
I didn't fit in my clothes, Ididn't feel attractive to my
(20:12):
husband, I didn't want to youknow, have sex Like I.
Just everything just felt likeso out of whack.
And I started working with aweight loss coach who turned out
to be a life coach and I neverknew any.
I heard of life coaching but Inever really understood the
principles of it.
I thought it was somebody withlike a clipboard telling you
like this is what you need to do.
(20:39):
And I worked with this womanthrough creating a new
relationship with my body andforgiving my body for not being
able to reproduce.
And that's when the light wenton for me, that the story that
I'd been believing about myselfdidn't have to be true anymore.
And she was really the personthat flipped the switch for me
and put the switch on, if youwill that my story doesn't have
(20:59):
to look like the vision that Ithought my future would look
like, because I didn't have kids.
You know the sad person, theone that people obligatorily
invite to Thanksgiving because,oh, you know, they don't have
fam, they don't have kids, theydon't have this.
So I just always thought Iwould have this sort of sad life
, and working with her made merealize that I could rewrite my
(21:22):
story, and that's when I decidedI wanted to do this for women
who are childless afterinfertility, because I could not
find anyone who was doing thiswork.
What was?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
the first thing that you did?
Did you jump on Instagram?
I started my podcast.
I could not find anyone who wasdoing this work.
What was the first thing thatyou did?
Did you jump on?
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Instagram.
What was your first step?
I started my podcast.
That was in 2021, september of21.
I was in my closet with a pairof earbuds and if someone goes
and listens to probably episode1 through 20, I sometimes get
embarrassed because it's likesuper shitty quality, but the
content is great and I told mystory really for the first time,
(21:56):
and my mom I remember tellingme oh my gosh, honey, I didn't
know you were going through allof this.
It was like so self-disclosingof things that I had never told
people before.
And then the emails startedcoming in of oh my gosh, you're
the first person I've ever heardsay this.
Like I thought I was the onlyone.
I didn't know.
Other people were experiencingthis and I have chills right now
(22:19):
just thinking about how manypeople needed to hear this
message and how proud I am thatI found the way to share it.
And it probably was like afloodgate, I can imagine, of
people being like hey, me tooover here.
This happened Because peopleare so ashamed.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
There's not an open space, there's stigma, there's
othering.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
There's so much that leads you to do anything but
open up.
Yeah, and I think people are.
Often they feel misunderstoodbecause people are always
offering you suggestions ofthings, that things that you
should continue to try toachieve motherhood.
You know they're relaxed, it'llhappen, pray on it or god has
his ways.
You know all these things thatdon't address the fact that
(23:06):
motherhood isn't part of yourfuture.
So it's you.
You feel really used to beingmisunderstood and trying to be
fixed by everybody and to beable to be in a space where
people can acknowledge that youare moving forward without kids
and the fixing doesn't need tohappen through having a child,
(23:28):
like to me, that is the storyand the words that most people
don't hear that you can create alife that you love, even though
you didn't have the childrenthat you dreamed of.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
All the time, yeah, everywhere.
Yeah, like I was at the grocerystore the other day and there
was a mother pushing her baby inthe carriage and they stopped
at the deli counter.
I was waiting for my monstercheese and I love monster cheese
, oh, it's so good um, and shewas doing this little piggy on
the toes of her baby.
(24:07):
And you know my eyes filledwith tears, and not from a place
of jealousy, but a place oflike.
What a beautiful connection,something that I'll never have,
and there was part of me thatmourns that, but I don't.
I don't judge myself formourning it, even though 2018
was when I found out that myjourney to parenthood was going
(24:30):
to be and or was ending.
Found out that my journey toparenthood was going to be end
or was ending, and, yeah, for along time, walking through
Target, through the maternitysection, was really hard for me,
seeing the mannequins with thematernity outfits, because, you
know, I love my fashion and Ialways, you know, imagine having
like the cute maternity clothesand yeah, so I think there are
(24:50):
moments that I see familiestogether and think, you know,
they're making their memoriesthat they're going to have for
the next 50 years and mymemories just are going to look
different, and that's okay too.
But I think it's reallyimportant to acknowledge that
the grief doesn't have to fullybe gone for you to feel like
you're moving ahead.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah, and I think that's a lot of people go
through grief, be gone for youto feel, you know, and then
sometimes you bring it down andyou're like and you put it back
(25:35):
up, but it's something you livewith.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Yeah, and I actually I have an advanced coaching
certification in grief andpost-traumatic growth because I
think that there is such a highlevel of grief it's called
disenfranchised grief that womenare going through because they
don't feel validated to talkabout grieving a dream, but that
dream you had for your futurefelt so real that it feels like
(26:00):
you physically lost someone orlost something.
And I also think it's importantfor women to know that grief is
an emotion and sadness is anemotion, happiness is an emotion
, excitement is an emotion, andI think we get way too into the
(26:23):
weeds of classifying emotions asgood and bad emotions.
So we think grief is a badthing to do and to feel and to
have.
So we judge ourselves when wefeel that sadness and that grief
.
You mentioned and I love thisthat you're interested in
following women who, when theyleave the fertility specialist
without having a child.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
What's their story?
What happens?
Who's caring for them?
What kind of bridge are peoplegiving them Right?
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Talk a little more about that.
Right, I am just blown away,and maybe because I spent 20
years in the medical field priorto leaving my job this past
July.
There was clinical data oneverything.
You know.
There's all these studies goingon and I started asking, like,
what studies are there, whatdata points are there about
women who leave treatmentwithout a child and the people
(27:13):
at big universities?
I've asked them, I've askedpsychologists, psychiatrists.
People say you know, we don'tfollow them, we don't know.
Do they go on to go to anotherclinic?
Do they go on to adopt, get asurrogate?
Like nobody knows this and I'mlike, how do we not know this?
So it's my goal to find someway to create the funding to get
(27:36):
the study going so that we canactually know.
Did women leave treatment?
Were they offered mental healthservices?
I was not.
I was offered adoption or eggdonor.
No one said, hey, we have atherapist we'd like to refer to
you.
So where are these women goingand how are they moving forward
in their lives, Feeling asthough they're supported and
(27:58):
relevant, even when they're nota billable patient?
Yeah, I decided about two yearsago.
Yeah, it was.
How do I say it?
It was very therapeutic for me,and not necessarily like
putting the words on paper, butknowing that I'm creating a
(28:19):
roadmap for somebody that I wishI had and that's really.
I just wanted someone to saylike here's a book, here's a
podcast, here's a Facebook likesomething, and I got none of
that.
And I think about theterminally ill patient who
somebody tells them readTuesdays with Maury.
You know like everybody gets aresource, but why do women who
(28:42):
leave treatment not get aresource?
So I wrote so now what to be aroadmap that women can follow
along.
There's different chapters inthree different sections and the
way I wrote the book, you don'thave to start it front to back
when you look at the chapternames and what I'm talking about
(29:02):
.
You can just pick it up and belike, oh, I got an invite to a
baby shower, how do I respond?
And there's a whole chapter onbaby shower invites.
There's one about holidays.
So when you don't have thefamily traditions of Christmas
to pass down, what do you do andhow do you feel connected
around the holidays to yourselfand your life?
So the book I really love that.
(29:24):
It's resourceful but real.
I think I'm not a toxicpositivity person.
I talked about that already.
I think I'm not a toxicpositivity person.
I talked about that already.
I think it's real important tobe like, honest and open about
the trenches that you're in andacknowledging that you're there,
but how do you move ahead andcome out of them for air every
(29:45):
once in a while?
I think for me, the parts arepurpose the part about creating
your purpose.
I think a lot of us as womenthink that your purpose is
automatically defined by being amother.
So I know for me and many ofthe clients that I work with in
my coaching practice they cometo me being like I don't know
(30:06):
what my purpose is, and I have atotally different perspective
on purpose.
I don't think it's somethingthat we declare for ourselves.
I think if we're connected towho we are and we show up as the
badass women that we are,people take from us what they
need.
So I look back I give thisexample all the time my second
(30:27):
grade teacher.
Maybe she was a mom, Maybe shewas a wife to somebody, Maybe,
who knows, she was active in herchurch community.
I don't know, but the purposeshe played for me, the purpose
she played in my life, was toteach me the times tables and
math and all these things thathave been the foundation of me
(30:48):
moving head in my life, knowinghow to do arithmetic.
So she showed that You're goingto edit this out because I'm
getting For me.
That was the purpose she playedin my life, and I think about
people who meet me and somebodycan take one thing about meeting
me and somebody can findanother reason that was
(31:09):
impactful or resourceful aboutmeeting me.
So I let people decide for themwhat my purpose is and it keeps
me from chasing this rubberstamp of like here's my purpose
and you have to declare it forlife and have it be this big,
huge thing that you feel isimpressive.
And I think we make purposereally hard for ourselves.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
I like that and I agree with that.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
it's just showing up and being you and being
connected to who you are.
Life just flows that way.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
What's your advice on the holidays?
Speaker 1 (31:58):
I think you have to learn how to create your own
traditions and we get stuck inthis like, oh well, you know,
grandma Mabel always made thesecookies.
Like, maybe you'll be the firstone to bring a new recipe into
the family, maybe you'll decideto go out of town for the
holidays.
I think we always think we haveto show up and we put what's
(32:19):
expected of us, from our familyor from the traditions and we
forget that we have our owntraditions that we can make.
What about baby showers?
Baby showers it's difficultbecause we don't want to seem
(32:43):
like we're the bad friend whocan't be happy.
What about baby showers?
So maybe you want to go anddrop off a present, and that's
going to be your thing, and youjust tell yourself, okay, I'm
going to go, I'm going to takemy present, I'm going to make an
excuse that I got somewhereelse to be, but you didn't want
to miss it.
I'm going to see how I feel andmaybe I'll stay and stick
around for the games.
You know they always do likethe games guess the name.
(33:14):
Maybe, if I feel okay, I'llstay longer, but segmenting the
event so that you don't feellike, oh my God, I got to stay
here for three hours and bebombarded.
So create a plan for yourselfbefore you go.
But if you decide that you don'twant to go, it's okay to make
up an excuse that you can't bethere.
You don't have to tell someone.
It's hard for you, but maybeyou can tell someone.
You know I love you so much,carrie.
I wish I could be there.
But this is just a really hardtime for me and I think that's
(33:35):
really important.
And I think we worry about ourfriends judging us or seeing us
as weak or jealous, andoftentimes we create that
self-judgment for ourself and wedon't allow ourselves to really
listen to our needs becausewe're too worried what people
are going to think about us andhow they're going married and
(33:55):
then they're having kids most,if not like none of those girls
are probably going to have theforesight to even understand
what you're going through, andso you are going to be judged.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
And that's the thing where it's, I think, the
awareness of it and saying andsaying like okay, so the people
who are having an easy timehaving kids amazing, but there
are people out there who are not, so if your friend happens to
be one, of them show some gracelike.
I know it's your baby showerand I know it's about you and
you're excited, but there's areal reason here why this person
(34:47):
can't support you at thismoment.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
They're just not being a dick yeah, yeah, and
sometimes what I would do too islike I'd volunteer to host,
because hosting kept my brainoff of being an attendee.
Yeah, yeah, so I would.
I'm like, one of my bestfriends had a baby shower and I
had it at my house and you know,it kept me included, but not at
(35:11):
the forefront because I coulddisappear.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I, youknow I'm really lucky.
My friends, um, there's a groupof four of us.
We've been friends for years.
One is a foster mom to two highschool girls.
Uh, one is an IVF mom ofidentical twins.
Her embryo split this is theone who told me to go to
Colorado and so she hasidentical twin girls.
(35:33):
And then my other mom my otherbest friend is a single mom by
choice and I'm a dog mom and wegot, we got everything.
We got the smorgasbord, yeah onthe rise, baby.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Yeah, on the rise yeah, she knew she.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
I think she saw that my friend who went through IVF
and me struggling and she hadn'tmet the person that she wanted
to settle down with and sheknowingly got pregnant with
someone that she was dating andtold him.
You know, like listen, I don'texpect you to be part of the
baby's life, but I want to havea kid.
And he was game and theyco-parent.
They don't live together to bepart of the baby's life, but I
want to have a kid.
He was game and they co-parent.
They don't live together butthey co-parent.
(36:15):
The daughter is now eight yearsold and it works out great.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Good.
So how has your relationshipwith the Hubs evolved and how
are you guys starting traditionsand what are you doing?
To sort of maximize thischildless life, honey, because
let me tell you, those of usthat have youngins, we are
living vicariously through this.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
That's funny, make no mistake.
You know, I think a lot ofpeople think that automatically
your life just turns into jetsetting and going here and going
there.
But, just like people who areparents of kids, you've got to
plan for it, because if youdon't have a plan, it's like, oh
, we need to go to Italy, butunless you plan it, it just
(36:57):
keeps being the thing on theradar.
That said, we oftentimes dothings on a limb, like we'll go
to Europe with a month's noticeor be on vacation and not sure
where our next destination is inbetween now and our flight home
, and that part is really fun.
But as far as the relationshipgoes, I would be remiss without
(37:18):
saying there was times when Iwondered if our relationship was
going to be enough without kids.
My rock, like he supported methrough everything and was there
(37:39):
to pick me up, when times weremore times, you know,
heartbreaking than they werejoyful and I didn't know if we'd
have enough substance in ourrelationship to continue.
But I think it's important torecognize why did you marry that
person?
Like, yeah, there's greattraits that you were like, oh,
when we have kids, they're goingto have his brown eyes and he's
six, six and so hot.
(38:00):
But yeah, I really try to goback and remember like, what was
it about him that attracted meto him, and look for those
qualities and see that withoutparenthood he's still that same
person.
And on our anniversary wealways talk about what do we
want to do more of as a couple,but also as individuals, because
(38:20):
I think it's important for usto have our own personal goals
and achievements for ourselves,not just as a unit.
So when he wants to go on a skitrip with the guys, I'm always
like go.
I love that.
I want him to not be reliant onme as his own social outlet.
So for us, I think we reallydeliberately create this goal or
(38:44):
these like life dreams,together as couples, but also as
individuals.
And then we also have this cutething.
He started it, so I'll give himcredit.
It's a cute little piggy bankand in the piggy bank you put
little notes to each other andit could be anything from dinner
was awesome tonight, or youlooked so beautiful when you
(39:06):
were sleeping, or whatever, andhe started this piggy bank.
So now we do this and we droplittle notes into each other and
at the end of the year we emptythe piggy bank and read our
notes to one another.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel likeyou're such a dick.
That's my birthday, may 14th,by the way.
(39:27):
I'm like how did you know that?
No, he's a gift, a good giftgiver, so I would never say that
on may 14th.
But, um, yeah, uh, we haven'tgotten to that point yet.
But where we put, where we putshitty notes in, but yeah, yeah,
yes, we just say it out loud.
(39:48):
We don't have to, we don't haveto mince words, yeah, I'm sure
you guys, like I would imagineyeah, yeah yeah, we're very, um,
(40:21):
we're very willing to explorenew ways to develop ourselves,
to develop our, our friendshipwith each other, because I think
that you, you lose that you,you think that kids are going to
be the thing that keeps youtogether and, like, for me, I'm
always like.
(40:41):
I texted him last night and Ijust said I love you and I'm
proud of you.
Because who tells you that,like, when you become an adult,
you know you and you don't havethe kids to tell that too.
So sometimes that language getslost and I, really, I I try to
like, build us up and createthis like friendship that is so
(41:02):
rock solid, because it really is, and it's not just like this
facade of like, oh, this great,you know couple who doesn't have
kids, who gets to do this andgets to do that, like there's
times that become lonely too,and and I think it's important
to recognize both of them.
I bet he's really proud of you.
Yes, watching you turn yourpain into purpose like this and
(41:25):
be a light for other people hasto be like that's my girl,
because not everybody does that.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
I mean, a lot of people can allow the pain to
take them over, and then they'reunderneath it to such an extent
that it sort of calcifies andthere you are, you know, and so
for you to not only figure thisout, but to be like I'm not just
gonna figure this out, I'mgonna be like the spokesperson
(41:51):
for this shit.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
You know that's pretty badass, thank you, yeah,
he is, um, he's dentist, so he'stalking to people all day long,
or you know.
It's like when you go to thedentist and they ask you a
question, you can't answer.
How annoying that is.
That's how I met him.
He was my dentist and I fell inlove with him.
Yes, I found every excuse tokeep going back there.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
I was like teeth whitening this, this, um, yeah
so you walk in there and that'sthe most like vulnerable,
unattractive, you're like ahright and you're loving this guy
.
You're thinking he's hot, likehow did you end up?
Speaker 1 (42:28):
well, we, we live in chicago and as big of a city as
chicago is, we ended up runninginto each other out one night
and I was with another guy whowas like a random date that I
knew wasn't going anywhere andI'm like, oh shit, the one time
I see him out of the officewhere I have my chance.
I got this guy with me.
So I trotted over, I said tothe guy I was with I was like
(42:48):
I'll be right back, I'm going tothe bathroom and I trotted over
to Dr Jack and I was like hiand he was like, introduced to
me, my friend, to his friends,like oh, this is my patient,
lana.
And then I was like, well, Igotta go my cousin's in from out
of town and you know, we'regoing to meet some friends.
And so we bolted because he'sJack, my husband is super
friendly guy.
I could see him coming over andbeing like how are you related?
(43:10):
So, uh, we left.
And then a couple weeks later Iwent to the same place and he
happened to be there again andwe left.
And then a couple weeks later Iwent to the same place and he
happened to be there again andwe left together and went and we
got a bottle of wine and we saton Ohio Street Beach in Chicago
.
They had this like biglifeguard chair and just hung
out until like 4 am.
And yeah, that was history,that's right girl.
(43:35):
You're like you walked overthere and you're like, do you
remember these two?
That's right girl, that's rightbaby.
He's funny because he'll belike I can't remember anyone's
name until I see their teeth andI'm like, oh, I remember this
person, they're mine, thank you,they're beautiful.
They almost look like theycould be the nearest you.
(43:57):
You know, teeth are geneticlike.
My sister is a patient of myhusband's too and he's like, oh
my gosh, when your sister comesin, you guys have such similar
teeth.
And I was like, oh, I didn'trealize teeth were kind of a
genetic trait, yeah, so anyway,we could go on and on about
dentistry.
(44:18):
I was like I am not letting thisguy get out the door thinking I
got a boyfriend, um, but yeah,I still remember these cute
little like eyelet white shortsand a tank top.
This was gosh 2000.
We got married in 09.
This would have been like 2006yeah, always, yeah, 2006.
Yeah, always, yeah, I am.
Yeah, I left.
(44:38):
I worked in the medical devicefield.
I was a sales rep for a largemedical device company for 20
years and I was doing both.
In 2021 is when I started thepodcast and I finished my life
coach certification and pushcame to shove.
I was turning 50 in May of lastyear and I was like this is my
time, like people are like 50,wah, wah.
(45:01):
I was like I can't wait to be50.
So I gave my resignation thenight before my 50th and I've
been doing this since July oflast year.
Yeah, totally, totally, I don'tthink twice about it.
Yeah, I gave him three monthsnotice because you know I care.
(45:22):
You know that was my baby, myjob was my baby, my territory.
You know, if you're a sales rep, it's like you nurture those
relationships and there's youget personal, you get invited to
their kids' birthday partiesand events and I didn't want to
leave my customers high and dry,and I gave them three months'
(45:42):
notice and I haven't looked back.
I'm just so happy I'm doing thiswork, but also it frees me up
to be more available to thepeople that need it.
So I have clients in Australianow and the time zone before if
I was working, I couldn't takeon people that were not in my
same time zone because the timedifference.
Now I have clientsinternationally.
(46:04):
I can do things in the middleof the day where I couldn't do
that when I was working.
Are they all women who didn'thave children?
Yes, yeah, I sometimes willhave people come to me that are
kind of in the midst of not surewhat's next and I'll kind of
help understand.
Like, are you sure you want tostop?
If you don't want to stop, Ihave people that I can refer you
(46:26):
to.
There's coaches that help womenas they're going through
treatment.
But yeah, for me it's reallyimportant to support the women
who know that they're movingforward without kids.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
Yeah, so is the lion's share of what you're
doing, the actual coachingcomponent.
So you're author, podcast host,coach yes.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
Is that?
Speaker 2 (46:45):
like the big need of it.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
Yeah, well, I also founded something called the
Others Day Brunch yeah, so Istarted that four years ago, in
2022.
It's an event the day beforeMother's Day.
It happens in Chicago and it'sfor women who don't have kids
for whatever reason, women whomight still be going through
treatment, who you know Mother'sDay feels hard for them, women
who've lost their mom or don'thave an active mother figure in
(47:09):
their life.
So it's kind of a pan reasonthat you might feel called to be
connected during Mother's Dayweekend.
So people come from all over.
I've had people from PuertoRico, massachusetts, florida,
texas.
Like people will fly in, peoplethat follow me on social media
and they're like I want to dothis and I have such admiration.
(47:30):
Like people get on an airplaneto come and spend two and a half
hours in Chicago with a groupof women to feel as though they
were connected.
Like that is badass.
Well, and that also tells yousomething you know it's very
much needed and you should dothe other thing, like you could
branch that out and city to city.
Yeah, I do have some people whoare ambassadors, but I'm really
(47:52):
particular about how it'shandled.
I am working on the trademarkfor it now.
We're in the final processes ofthat.
God, that's been a process, yeah, but yeah, I mean I like that
people come in for it, becausethere's something really special
about meeting people from allwalks of life and people that
(48:16):
come from different parts of theUS.
I mean, hopefullyinternationally one day, but I
really love the fact that peopleadvocate for themselves and
they say I need this.
To me, that is such a testamentof how you're showing up for
yourself, because I think we'renot taught how to show up for
yourself and go after what youneed.
(48:36):
There's so much of life that Ithink passes us by because we're
like, oh, it'll be weird, or oh, I don't know anyone, or oh,
you know, like what are peoplegoing to think that I need this
for myself?
So, yeah, the others day brunchis happening May 10th in
Chicago.
So that's my vision.
(48:58):
Yeah, it's happening May 10thin Chicago.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
That's my vision.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
Yeah, yes, I totally want it to be like a wellness,
personal development, focus onyourself, get what you need,
like I have visions of, likesound baths and yoga and
speakers.
You know, not just me.
Yeah, girl, I love that.
(49:30):
Yeah, there you go.
No em dashes, don't you hatethat.
There you go.
No M dashes, don't you hatethat?
Okay, I've got to say like,since ChatGPT came along, the
use of the dash, I felt like,was so unique to me, like I
always used dashes instead ofcommas, and now everyone is
(49:53):
using these fucking dashes andI'm'm like that is not yours.
It's irritating.
Yeah, I love chat gbd, don'tget me wrong.
(50:16):
When I do my podcast, I take myscript and I throw it in there
and it does my show notes andall that and it's made my life
better, but I just get reallypissed off about the dashes.
Yeah, I'm a dash girl.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
Okay, so someone's out there listening right now.
Their ears are perked up.
Out there listening right now,their ears are perked up Is
there anything else that youwant to say?
Speaker 1 (50:45):
You know, I created a really good resource that a lot
of people have found valuable.
It's called the top 27 thingspeople say when you're childless
and how to respond, because Ithink when you get those
questions of how many kids doyou have, or you're at a work
event, you're meeting a newgroup of people and everyone's
talking about their kids orquestion you.
So I would advise people.
It's a free download on mywebsite, londonmanikowskicom.
(51:06):
It's really helpful too ifyou're on the other side of
things and you're like I'mworking with someone going
through infertility.
What are some things I shouldavoid saying.
So I would say that is a reallygreat tool to have, whether
you're on the infertility sideor the friend and advocate side.
(51:26):
Yes, lanamanikowski, if you canspell my last name, I know she's
just happy to be here.
Yes, now we get to drive backfive hours.
She loves the car, so we'regoing to go for a ride.
Yes, oh, I'm so glad to be heretime.
(51:50):
Go follow Lana and keep moving.
Aww, see, she knows when thingsare over.
That's such a great way to endthe show when I finish my calls.
Speaker 2 (52:03):
Oh my God, she's so sweet.
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