What drives someone to carry another family’s baby?
In this episode of our Infertility Series, I sit down with two of the most extraordinary humans I know — Skye and Jason — the couple who helped bring my daughter Kyle into the world through surrogacy.
Skye opens up about what drew her to this path — a deep love for pregnancy and an even deeper desire to help someone else experience the kind of love only parenthood can bring. Jason gets real about what it took for him to get on board — from long, honest conversations to confronting what it really means to support your partner through something most people can’t wrap their heads around.
Together, they take us inside their surrogacy journey:
🧡 How they explained it all to their young kids
🧡 The awkward questions they got from strangers (which Jason low-key loved)
🧡 What it’s like to carry a child you won’t bring home
🧡 And how this experience made their marriage even stronger
Whether you’re curious about surrogacy, actively exploring it, or just fascinated by how far people will go to help someone else build a family — this conversation is for you.
And if you’re on the path I was on — overwhelmed by agency costs and wondering if you’ll ever find the right match — I’ve created a Find Your Dream Surrogate Workshop to help you do what I did. No agency fees. No gatekeeping. Just the real tools and support you need to take the next step. Find everything you need to know at kericroft.com/surrogacy-workshop.
🎙️ Listen to the full episode now — I can’t wait for you to meet the people who changed my life.
#TheKeriCroftShow #SurrogacyJourney #InfertilitySeries #InfertilityAwarenessMonth #FindYourDreamSurrogate #SurrogacySupport #SurrogacyWithoutAgencies #1in6 #YouAreNotAlone #SayTheThing #ModernMotherhood #JasonAndSkye #FamilyIsFamily
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Keri Croft Show.
What kind of person chooses tocarry someone else's baby?
Not once, but twice.
In this episode I sit down withmy dream surrogate Skye and her
incredible husband Jason, thetwo people who helped bring my
baby girl, kyle, into this world.
Skye opens up about the momentshe realized this path was meant
(00:22):
for her.
She knew she loved beingpregnant and felt deeply called
to help another familyexperience the kind of joy she
already knew so well.
And Jason shares what it tookto get on that same page,
navigating the complex emotions,the deep love and the hard
conversations that made themstronger as a couple.
We get into all of it thehonest talks with their kids,
(00:44):
the sideways glances fromstrangers and the emotional
weight of carrying a baby forsomeone else.
Skye felt everything, but shecarried it all with perspective,
with clarity, with the kind ofemotional strength most people
never get to witness up close,and for me this is deeply
personal.
I will forever be grateful tothem for their courage, their
(01:07):
trust and their willingness tohelp another family come to life
.
Their story is a testament towhat can happen when two
families walk forward with love,respect and purpose, if you're
considering surrogacy or justwant a deeper understanding of
what it really looks like.
This conversation is for you.
Start your journey toparenthood with Pinnacle
Fertility Ohio.
We offer IVF, surrogacy,genetic testing and more,
(01:31):
accepting all insurances andoffering flexible payment plans.
Your dream of parenthood beginswith Pinnacle Fertility Ohio's
immediate, affordable care Booknow at RGIOhiocom.
Okay, I meaniocom, okay, I meanguys, guys, I wouldn't be more
excited if I had, like DenzelWashington in here or some like.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
You should be.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I literally my heart skipped a beat when you said
that you guys were here.
I was like I miss you.
Well, for everyone out there,this is Sky and Jason.
Sky was my surrogate and Jasonwas I.
I mean, what do we even sayabout you?
I mean, we gotta go no, behindthe guy you were the.
I mean, you were so great.
Yeah, you were so fucking greatfrom the beginning.
(02:14):
From the moment I met you guys,I mean you were just such a
supportive, but authenticallylike, genuinely supportive yeah,
and that you in, in for thelike, out outwardly supportive.
There was a lot of behind thescenes stuff that was we're
gonna get into, we're gonna get,we're gonna get into that yeah
we is well, let's start withthis because, um, if, if you're
(02:38):
listening right now and youhaven't listened to sky's
previous episode, where youbasically told everyone how you
guys met and got married, okay,which was like this big you know
, you open Pandora's box,everyone knows now, yeah, right,
and that's cool and it's allgood.
Yes, the kids were.
They like eh, whatever, thegirls I don't remember, I don't
even know yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
I was gonna say they were young.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I mean, they were young, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
I've actually talked to the girls about it more
recently.
Now that they're older, theyask questions now.
So I've kind of gone over thestory with them again a couple
of times and I'm like, but don'tever do that, right.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Right.
So new listeners, you're like,what the hell are you guys
talking about?
And you're probably alreadyannoyed with me.
Which, OK, pump the brakes.
Basically, Sky and Jason kneweach other for 10 seconds, went
to Vegas, got hitched.
The rest is history.
They did the thing, and I bringthat up.
I tee it up with that because Ithink that it takes a certain
personality to look at surrogacyand go, oh great, I'm in.
(03:37):
And so I want to start with,because, Sky, you were a
surrogate twice.
We were your second, albeitfavorite family.
I'm a little territorial, butwhen she first came to you,
jason, give us an idea of whereyou were in your lives, how she
(03:59):
teed up the conversation.
This is the second one.
This is yours.
This is the first one, thefirst time you ever heard that
this woman had this glimmer inher eye to carry another
person's child.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah, it's a lot to take in.
I think that I know her and Iknow how she is and I know that
when she gets passionate aboutsomething, she'll listen to me
but not really hear what I'msaying.
And for me and I say this abouther with everything she wants
to take care of everybody.
She wants to take care of thekids and her parents and my
(04:32):
parents and me, and so there'snobody to take care of her, and
so my number one priority in anysituation is her, and that was
the first thing that I said.
I'm like okay, I understandwhat you're saying, you want to
do this.
How is this going to affect you?
Is this like she had?
We had issues getting pregnant.
We had, you know, there wereissues, postpartum issues with
(04:53):
our kids, and so my concern washer.
So it I don't think that itsunk in what was really being
asked of the two of us.
I think it was more how is thisher?
That's what I immediately wentto, and you know, I think that
once I knew that she was gonnabe okay, then it was okay.
So am I gonna be okay?
(05:13):
So then it's more.
That's when you know my I kindof started thinking about how I
was gonna react to it.
And in the end, I need somebodyin my life that believes in
humanity, and that's her, and soI have to back her up when
she's doing something that shefeels so strongly about.
(05:34):
I know that all the intentionsare good, I know that she's
doing it for all the rightreasons.
I know she may not think itthrough completely because it's
again putting everyone else inthe world first, but I know that
what she's doing is a goodthing, and so I think in the end
we went back and forth with thefirst one.
I mean it was weeks, weeks andweeks of discussions back and
(05:58):
forth.
It was probably a month beforewe even met the couple.
I mean it was a minute just ustalking about it, month before
we even met the couple.
I mean it was, it was a minutejust us talking about it.
And then we met them and andthe first meeting we had with
them was great and it you knowit kind of that put my mind at
ease a little bit, cause that'sthe other thing you want to we
didn't know them.
I don't want to say I'm goingto let my wife sacrifice all of
(06:19):
this, like all of these issuesthat she could have, all of
these concerns that I had forrandom people.
I didn't know who they are.
I mean, you know, I don't wantto give up on our end for people
that don't deserve it.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
It has to feel aligned 100% 100%.
You knew you were doing itright.
You're like I'm just like mostwomen, right, so like guys, just
spoiler alert.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Here's what goes down .
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Okay, here's what goes down.
Okay, here's what goes down.
So the women get this idea andthey are already like okay, I'm
doing this right, yep, I'm doingthis, and we're already sold
and bought in.
And hell hath no fury.
Like someone try to like get inour way.
So you, we just wait to breakyour ass down.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
So you guys can make it easy on yourselves, you can
make it hard.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
So you just knew, like was it always something, or
did something hit you one daywhere you're?
Speaker 3 (07:07):
like it just hit me one day like, um, a family
friend came to us and like kindof brought up the idea because a
family friend of hers was theone that needed the surrogate.
And so as soon as she mentionedit, I was like how have I never
thought about that before?
Like I loved being pregnant andI would love to be able to help
(07:29):
another family achievesomething like that, and it was
just like, yeah, I had neverthought about it before then.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Knowing you, it's like of course.
It's like there was never abetter you know, it makes total
sense.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
I mean my God.
You know, it makes total sense.
Oh, it makes total sense.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I mean, my God, you know, like in my workshop that I
created, it's called Find yourDream Surrogate.
I mean, you are the dream,You're a dream person, let's be
honest, but like you're a dreamsurrogate, thank you For sure.
Describe your relationship andlike your dynamic in three words
, and you guys need to agree onthose three words.
We have to agree on that yeah,like throw some out, and then
you guys need to agree on whatthey are.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Compromise Ugh I knew you were going to say that.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Is ugh a word.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Are we going to do that?
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Before we ever even got together.
The day before the day of theday we did get married, like the
day we went out.
We were at the beach.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
When you were figuring out each other's last
names.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yeah, we hadn't done that yet.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
That came much later, you're like my last name that
came when we were in line Headersheet.
Oh, that has a nice ring to it.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
We were in line for a marriage license when I found
that out.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Yeah, and so that day that's fucking so great.
Just her and I went to thebeach that day and we were
talking about just random thingsand the idea of marriage just
came up and I was like I don'tplan on ever getting married
because I hate the thought ofcompromising.
I don't want to like, I don'twant to have to change any part,
like I like who I am.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
I don't want to change any part of me.
You said I don't want to feelobligated.
Yeah, to go to like her workwork functions, yeah if I don't
want to and I was like.
That seems normal.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah, and so I think that was the.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Customize is a weird word.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah it is.
But I will say marriage is anegotiation, every relationship
is a negotiation.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
I like negotiation much better, Because then I
don't feel like I'm giving in.
I'm saying my side, she'ssaying her side and we come to a
common ground you're saying youguys are good at that, though.
Yes, forgiveness is a big one.
Yeah, that's more so on hermore so on her end.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Oh, I can't imagine sometimes, jason, I can't
imagine you being at allchallenging challenging.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
I like that.
I like that word thoughchallenging doesn't sound,
doesn't have a negativeconnotation.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
No, I think you would be just perfect.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Okay, number three patience I think, and that's
that's on both of our.
We are.
We are very, very differentpeople.
Just at our cores we'redifferent, and so being able to
listen to each other patiently,open, being open-minded about
what the other one is saying,that's something I mean.
(10:09):
I work on that.
I still, I still work on that alot, so do I, um don't we all?
Speaker 1 (10:14):
yeah, yeah, if you're not working on it, you probably
have a problem.
Yes, right, I mean you shouldbe checked out.
You need to be, you need to beworking on that.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
All show me a couple that says they don't work on it
and I'll show you two liars, oryou're just checked out and like
yes, yeah, yeah, exactly yes.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
This just in Marriage , it be work, yeah, work.
W-e-r-k.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, yes.
Exclamation point 100%.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
So you basically, so she brings this thing, yeah, and
you're kind of shitting yourpants.
Yes, not kind of, you weretotally shitting your pants
fully.
And then how did you guysbroach it with the kids and did
they even have a?
Did they even flinch?
Speaker 3 (10:53):
at this point, the first time around, they were
young colin was old enough heknew exactly what was going on.
Let's see, caitlin had justbeen born.
So caitlin was one, yeah, um,so that means riley was five and
colin was seven.
So colin and riley kind of knew.
We just told them very kind ofplainly, like mommy's gonna help
(11:14):
this family have a baby, webought a book about it um that
we read to caitlin um and thenwe kept them very involved.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
We let they talk to the baby.
They talked to the baby theytalked to the baby Talked to
mommy's belly Like we, almostlike it was going to be their
sibling, yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
But they knew that the baby was not coming home
with us yes, Like from day one.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
And they got to meet the family and hang out with the
family.
They did have a daughter whowas Riley's age.
So, like they got to hang outand play and so they knew that
the baby was going to thatfamily and so, yeah, we just
kept everybody involved.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
So next step is you know family and friends.
What are you going to like,what are they going to think and
how do we or did you guysreally not even care too much
about that?
Speaker 3 (12:00):
We didn't really take friends into consideration.
I did talk to my parents aboutit because I'm close with my
parents and of course they are alot like jason, like worried
about me, like how hard is itgoing to be on my body because I
had just had caitlin um, I waseven older at that time as far
as pregnancy is concerned, sobut in the end they know me well
enough to like him just getbehind and yeah, and really with
(12:24):
as far as and my mom was theone who suggested the idea, so
because she worked at theinfertility at the clinic, and
so it really that wasn't.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
It wasn't a big deal.
And as far as our friends go Imean we didn't take our friends
into consideration when we gotmarried I think that we, I think
that's one thing that we arevery good about is outside
influence we yeah, it's reallyus we make decisions based on us
and we don't really for betteror for worse, don't really care
what anyone else thinks yeah,any awkward, weird moments with
(12:55):
people like intrusive questionsor stupid stuff, oh, everything
that was my favorite.
It was my favorite because thenI constantly got to say, oh yeah
, my wife's pregnant withsomeone else's kid.
It was my favorite because thenI constantly got to say, oh
yeah, my wife's pregnant withsomeone else's kid and just
watch people's face.
Oh my God, like their face.
It went from smiling to justcompletely dropped immediately.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
It was awesome.
It was so much fun for both ofthem, for both of the
surrogacies, I'm sure it wasamazing.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
I loved it Because it was, oh, my wife's pregnant
with someone else's baby.
Oh, this is uncomfortable.
I'm like.
I'm like it's okay, I know thepeople, it's fine.
Just make it even weirder itwas so funny.
She would get so angry and belike no, no, no, I'm a surrogate
, it's fine, I was justuncomfortable.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
I wasn't angry, I just don't like the
uncomfortable and he likes it, Ilove it.
Oh, I mean, I feel like that'sgood.
Like you, at least you're owedthat right, you could have a
little fun with it.
Yes, absolutely, so fastforward.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
You're 43 at the time when you got the inquiry about
moi.
Yeah, now I can only speak frommy side of things, but I would
love to hear your raw and uncutkind of point of view on the day
that we met, uncut kind ofpoint of view on when, the day
(14:08):
that we met.
So, of course, you know, justgive a quick background for
again people who haven'tlistened or new to the scene we
had recently lost jade.
I was in a complete like mental, you know, juggernaut.
We put this whole thingtogether, dr shepherd and I, and
we get this.
Dr shepherd's like, we got's,like we got this email.
She sounds really cool and she,she's like, reading it to me
over the phone, I'm like, oh mygosh, she sounds really lovely.
(14:30):
And so we were trying not toget our hopes up and it was like
I just need to convince myhusband and we're like you know,
behind the scenes we're likefuck yeah we're going to
convince the husband, all right.
And we were like going back andforth, like who is this guy,
like how hard is he gonna fight?
You know, we usually win, wealways win this.
So we're like having these,like you know, back and forth.
Is he gonna, is he gonna sayyes?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
what's he gonna do?
It's gonna be this battle justassuming.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Yeah, oh, for sure so probably because of the way I
wrote the email well, andbecause you were 43 at the time
and because you've done itbefore and this is our point of
view, right, so you've got thisguy who already was on board
once.
You're now 43, like okay, wehave to.
Just, we were really hanging onto like we knew that was a big
thing, like we were likepicturing, like oh my god, when
(15:14):
are they how?
We were just like, because wereally had this vibe about you
and your name, sky, we're like,oh, is this, is this the
universe?
So we get to the point with you.
You talk to your ob, you talkedit.
You know jason's universe.
So we get to the point with you.
You talk to your OB.
You talked to you know Jason'sa go.
And then we were having themeeting.
I was so I had two left feet.
It was like I was 16, gettingready to like go on my first
(15:36):
date.
I was looking out the window.
You guys, you pull up with yourkids.
I was like Dr Shepard was there, brady was there, and we go
outside and we sit together atthe picnic table.
So what was your debrief afteryou guys left?
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Do you want to start?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
And not to toot your horn or anything but it was so
comfortable.
And I do not like to meet newpeople.
It is not my thing.
I have the same two friendsI've had for the last 20 years.
I don't need new friends.
I don't need new people.
In my life.
I've got a nice little core andso for me to be comfortable when
(16:15):
I first meet someone is that'ssomething it doesn't happen all
the time.
And from the time I walked in,like just when you came out, you
know, you and I have talked andyou say that I have this energy
, the energy that you broughtout of that house I was like, oh
my God, like came up, hugged usimmediately, like it, just
everything felt very, verynatural and I think that when we
(16:35):
left, it was, it was a relieffor me that we had made the
right decision, and I say we, inthe end, she's going through
the majority of it, but it is adecision that we had made the
right decision.
And I say we, in the end she'sgoing through the majority of it
, but it is a decision that weboth have to make.
And we accept it.
You accept that, I accept that,and in the end it was like man
we this is it.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
This was, yeah.
I remember getting in the carand just being like, oh my God,
this is perfect, like this is someant to be.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
I want to party with you.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
We were like when can we hang out with?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
them again.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
We've got to set something up now.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Well, you know it's funny.
It's like I knew I don't knowand like it's funny.
Actually, I understand.
I say it's funny but Iunderstand totally when you say
you hate meeting new people.
Someone would never get thatfrom you because you're so
seemingly extroverted.
But I'm the same way where Ihave that same internal thing.
You had such a quiet but I knewlike a strong presence.
(17:33):
I just felt so safe, likeknowing I'm, like if I had the
honor, like if she will, if shewill have me, how blessed, how
lucky are we to have her.
Like I was, just I was sittingnext to you, just like, oh my
gosh.
And then I felt the same way,like I'm like we're gonna,
they're gonna be at Kyle's Sweet16.
Like I mean, this is like I knewit and like I know, when I talk
(17:57):
to people now because I havebecome this advocate for people
in this workshop and I'm nowoffering like doing one-on-one,
like walk with you to find thesurrogate, when I talk to
couples, I have to kind oftemper my experience a little
bit because it almost feels toogood to be true.
It's unbelievable, right like,and I and I that's what I tell
people.
I have actually this girl who'sgoing through it right now and
(18:20):
she's so sweet and she's askingme a lot of questions and
recently she sent me a text andshe said did your surrogate?
Or she said, did you have ababy shower and did you invite
the surrogate and did you gether a print?
And all I did was send her thephoto of you in the middle of
all my friends.
I go, well, I go, it's kind ofwe kind of like it was kind of
(18:40):
her baby shower and like, yes,I'm like I treated her like a
queen because I wanted to andshe liked it and we both loved
it.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I'm like again, I'm not trying to say this is right
for everyone but it was just sofucking great and it still can
like I my excitement to see youguys today probably isn't the
average.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
You're like, standing out there I'm like, oh yeah,
there they are.
So I mean, feeling was mutual.
Feeling was mutual.
Give a little behind the scenesthough, of like when she's
pregnant with somebody it's ninemonths she's in a bad mood or
she's tired and like all thisstuff causes stress, it causes
tension.
But now it's like stress andtension on behalf of like I
(19:22):
don't care how much you likebrady and I, you're like, fuck
these guys, they're out, youknow living their same life.
And I'm dealing with this shit.
Like how did like arguments?
Or like, were you saltysometimes?
Or were you like how did thatwork?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
I I would love to say , like I would love to have this
story about all of thisconflict that we had and how we
overcame it.
Was this difficult time, itjust wasn't.
I I don't know if it's becausewe had been through before.
I don't know if we've beenthrough a lot of, a lot of shit
in our marriage.
Like us as a couple, we've beenthrough a lot of stuff.
(19:59):
I mean, you get married.
You get married you don't evenknow a person, so you spend your
first year getting to know andthat's like your first year of
dating.
It's amazing.
Well then the second year islike your first year of marriage
, which, from what I'm told, isbrutal for most people, and so
we went through a lot of shit,and so I think that we have a
very, we have a strongrelationship, and so I think and
and it helped that we had justmoved into a house that had a
(20:21):
pool, so that summer, like, Iwas enjoying the pool and you
know she was pregnant, but shewas able to get into the I mean
it was, I don't know it it therewasn't a lot of there wasn't a
lot of that arguments andconflict, and I don't know and I
I think that's good to hear.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
I think that's good for people to hear that like
what I think, when you're bothon board with something and you
feel aligned in it and thatyou're doing something like this
, because I I think the pointthat I want people to understand
there's a lot of them, but it's.
It sounds so overwhelming andso crazy, but it's really.
It's really not.
I mean, it is like a pregnancyis very serious.
(20:56):
I'm not trying to minimize that, but it isn't like I don't know
.
I think it doesn't have to belike this huge, crazy, wild
thing it is what you make of ityeah, for sure 100 and pregnancy
always like chills me outanyways and it helps that she's
had good pregnancies.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Like I, I don't know.
I like I can't speak to.
You know, I can't speak tohaving a rough pregnancy and
what you go through, like as the, as the husband, what you go
through if your wife is sick allthe time feels like crap, all
the time, upset, grumpy, all thetime.
I just I just didn't have todeal with that, and so I think
(21:33):
that that you know that made ita little easier for me.
You know, when she's sick Ilike taking care of her.
That's not a problem for me, soI don't mind.
You know, I always say I'd muchrather take care of her than
have to have her take care of me.
So that's why when I'm sick, Ijust go lock myself in my room
and tell everyone to stay thehell away from me, but when
she's sick I want to be rightnext to her the whole time, you
know.
And so I think that because ofthat I don't know she she
(21:57):
doesn't want me to take care ofher all the time, and so a lot
of times she doesn't even tellme that she's not feeling well.
So I think we just I don't know.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
it's just easier and the pool definitely helped a lot
when I was uncomfortable.
I would just go float in thepool.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Pools in the summer, always, always help.
Yeah, do.
Surrogacy experience broughtyou guys closer 100 absolutely,
yeah, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
And I think that and again to your point talking it,
it has to be weird for youtalking to other people that go
through difficulty finding asurrogate and then having to
interview multiple surrogatesand just not clicking and it
just doesn't work out.
And you know it, I don't know itworked out so well for us, the
pregnancy went so well for us.
There just weren.
You know, we had the hiccupthere the one time and we just,
(22:39):
you know, kind of resetourselves and got right back
into it and everything was fine.
So I think that, again, it'sall about when it comes to the
surrogate, it's all about therelationship with her partner.
If there's a strongrelationship with her partner,
the surrogacy will be fine.
And you know again not tryingto be argumentative when you
have a baby inside of you, thosebabies like I'm not one that
(23:01):
says, oh, the baby's in a, thepregnancy is in a bad
environment, the baby will bebad.
But I do think that it canaffect how they come out, how
they are when they're little.
If they're in a calmenvironment, when they're in the
womb and they come out, I thinkthat there's a chance that
they're gonna be calm.
I think that just seems likecommon sense to me.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
And so, yeah, that's a very big deal, and that's
another thing.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
So when we're you know she's pregnant with someone
else's baby, I almost feel likewe're more cautious about it,
because we're, it's not ours.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
It's not ours.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yeah, we, you know our kids.
We can scream and holler ateach other because we're dealing
with it.
Dealing with it when they comeout, but like when it's someone
else, I think we were probably alittle more cautious than we
were with our kids.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
I bet the sex life was a little.
You're like oh, don't want topoke over here, Don't want to
poke over there, Got somebodyelse's baby in you.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
That was the one time .
I don't think I was cautious.
I didn't really think about itwhen that was going on.
Luckily it all turned out fine,so it's okay.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
All good, all good, Okay.
So would you do it again if youwere young enough?
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I love being pregnant.
If I could be pregnant for therest of my life, I would.
It just makes me a chill person.
I'm happy.
I don't feel bad about what Ieat.
Yeah, uh, but yeah, my body'slike I'm done well, now for sure
.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
But you're what now?
Speaker 3 (24:24):
44, I just turned 46, 46 just turned, 46 last weekend
my time is like I know it'scrazy but yeah, if I was younger
I would 100% do it again.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
So you're with the workshop, Is it?
Do you talk to surrogates?
Speaker 1 (24:41):
too, like, do you?
So here's how it's going down.
So I created this workshop.
That's basically they can buythe whole like I've gone behind
the scenes and I have basically,from the beginning to end of my
experience, so peeling back thebusiness model of an agency,
talking to all those differentagencies, figuring out what they
charge, all the differentelements, the pillars that go go
(25:01):
into it, what's important.
So I went and just did it'sthis really cool?
Like I didn't want to call it aPowerPoint because that sounds,
but it's like all thesegraphics, audio video of me, um,
walking them through, and thenI have like I'll have this
inside of there too for people.
But I have my attorney did apodcast.
Life insurance did a podcast.
(25:22):
We talk escrow.
We talk about everything fromlike beginning to end, how you
market yourself, build yourA-team, because my strategy with
this because what you weresaying is like talking to people
who aren't a fit it is soimportant that that I you feel
the way, or some of the way thatI felt about you, where I felt
like this baby would be caredfor.
(25:44):
There was never a moment whereI felt anything other than just
blessed and like the like, thisgood feeling, and you can't
discount that because you're sodesperate for a baby that you
just are going to look for thefirst person.
So my strategy is starting withyour core, and so who loves you
more than your core?
No one.
So you enlist your A-teamthat's closest to you that have
(26:06):
access to pockets of people Forexample, jesse Pizzuti, people
who maybe if you have a teacherwho has access to an email list
in a school system, of course,labor and delivery nurses, dr
Shepard, she has 45practitioners.
You create that marketingmaterial, you galvanize your
core and you give them all thethings they need and then you
(26:27):
send them out and then you gointo the universe and I believe
a million percent that that is abetter strategy.
And I believe a million percentthat that is a better strategy
If you are.
So the workshop is for someonewho, first of all, cannot afford
$150,000 ticket for an agency.
They can't afford a two-yearwait list.
Not all of them have that, butthere are some.
(26:48):
And if you are resourceful andyou can manage a complex process
.
So, like there are differentthings, you're dealing with
legal, you're dealing with lifeinsurance, escrow, the surrogate
relationship, the what ifs thatcome with growing a life inside
of you.
So you have to be able to kindof Aaron Brockovich the
situation.
But there are me's out there whothis is perfect for that will.
(27:11):
They won't have to spend all ofthat, and I believe that you
know too.
The surrogate should get paidmore than what they get paid, so
like, if you're not paying allthat money, then maybe you could
like even if it's like 10% more.
Or you know, some of thesesurrogates are making $30,000.
That's not enough, especiallywhen you see the agency getting
(27:35):
paid $150,000.
Now, $30,000 is low on the lowend, but still the surrogate's
the hero, you know.
So the workshop is basicallyplug and play.
You do it yourself.
I'm here for like help.
Q&a-wise want to hire me to dothe one-on-one?
Then I will enlist my networkwith your network, walk with you
(28:03):
and take the lead on managingthis stuff so you don't have to,
for like a fraction of theprice.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
That's amazing.
I mean there's there.
There has to be a huge marketfor that.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
I think it's funny.
When we went through the firstsurrogacy, I think people that
we would talk to people we wouldtalk to talk to would be like
she's doing what Is that even athing?
And with the second one therewere still plenty of people that
didn't understand what it was.
But I do feel like more peoplewe talked to maybe they knew us
and they knew what we hadalready been through.
But I do think that it'sbecoming more and more a thing
(28:30):
and people are getting morefamiliar with it than it was
when we did it the first timeOne of the nurses that I worked
with in the ER.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
She just was a surrogate for her sister last
year, so I feel like it'sbecoming more common.
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
I mean, and you have same-sex couples trying to get
pregnant and build families, youhave women who are older and
you have just the people whohave medical conditions that are
putting their bodies at riskbecause they don't feel like
there's another way.
So I do.
I mean, the demand for it isridiculous and I just want to be
like I can't wait, Like this isso new and I've started talking
(29:08):
to couples.
I am so excited to get my firstcouple where I'm like that
couple, we're going to findsomebody Like I'm hitching that
couple we gonna find somebodylike, like, like, I'm hitching.
Like I am, like I cannot.
You know Dr Shepard's ready tolike light up all the same
marketing.
I have a sister now that's anOB.
I mean you're in the NICU, wehave got so many reasons right
and like, just with thiscommunity that I've built, that
(29:30):
that they hear surrogacy I wantyou to think Keri Croft,
Surrogacy, like I say it all thetime, I just can't wait Like
I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
It's awesome.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
So for people who are having the conversation or
maybe this just gave them alight bulb moment of like, oh my
God, I never thought aboutbeing a surrogate what would be
like the biggest piece of advicefor the couple considering it.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Biggest piece of advice?
Well, the couple.
They have to be on the samepage.
So you've got to talk it outand be on the same page right
off the bat.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yeah, there can be doubt when you're first talking
about it, but when you sign onthe dotted line for lack of a
better term you have to be 100%on the same page.
You have to be there, cannot be, it can't be the.
You know my side, the husband,father, can't say I mean, I
think it'll be fine, then don'tdo it.
(30:25):
It's the because then you knowyou talked about what kind of
arguments did you have at theend?
What kind of conflict did youhave?
I think that that conflict comesfrom not being on the same page
right from the start.
And again, take your time.
Don't jump into it Like don'tlet the wife or the surrogate or
the spouse, don't let them takecontrol and just say we're
(30:47):
doing it, take the time to talkabout it, take the time to
research, make sure you reallyunderstand what it means.
Yeah, it worked out great forus, but I'm sure that there's,
for every story that we have,there's probably 10 stories
where it's not like that, and soyou really need to make sure
you do your research and you areon the same page and you have
(31:09):
to stay on the same page.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
You're right, like you have to communicate through
the entire thing.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Yeah, you can't say, oh yeah, I'm 100 in and then one
month into it say, well, I mean, I wasn't really 100 and that's
not gonna work.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
It doesn't work like that well, you really did walk
the walk, because to say thatyou're 100 in, but then you know
, you, you went, and I'm notsaying you have to come to every
single appointment, but butjust I mean, you went to every
single appointment, you didn'tmiss one.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
And so I think, when you're considering it, you have
to remember like you shouldtreat it as if it was your, like
your child, in terms ofcommitment to the partner, um,
and maybe try to come to, if youcan't make all of them like,
really be as supportive as youcan.
Walking the walk.
Walk as opposed to like yeah,you got a yes from me, so I'm
going to be a dick the rest ofthe nine months and you go, do
(31:56):
that.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
I'm going to be over here.
That's a great point.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
That's a great point being involved.
You need to still.
You can't just say I'm in butthen not be involved.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Yeah, it's not just her thing.
You have to be involved in it.
You're in it together.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Yep For sure.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
And like in terms of preparing emotionally and
mentally before stepping intothe journey, I think just time,
research, communication,definitely, and going with your
gut yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
And really understanding, really like talk
to people that have beensurrogates.
I'm sure that there areresources out there.
There are people that arewilling to talk to you.
Talk to a surrogate and seewhat it's like to carry a baby
for nine months and then give itup, like that's that's what I
can't.
That's what I can't.
I, I just from my side.
I can't wrap my head.
I just can't wrap my headaround that.
What emotionally, what thatdoes um to a surrogate, I mean,
(32:43):
it's that I just can't.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
I just can't even imagine that I get every time I
tell somebody that I've been asurrogate, like how can you
carry a baby and then just giveit up?
Like well, I'm not giving it up, like I was basically
babysitting, like I feel like inmy brain I just am able to look
at it as like babysitting, I'mfostering, you know, this
beautiful baby and for a family,and it's the most fulfilling
(33:10):
and rewarding thing that youcould ever imagine.
And being able to do that foranother family is it's just ind
fulfilling and rewarding thingthat you could ever imagine.
And being able to do that foranother family is it's just
indescribable.
So I just never.
It was never giving.
I was never giving up my babybecause it wasn't my baby.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
You know what I mean I do, and I think that brings up
a great point when you'rebeginning your search for a
surrogate, the reason why it'sso important.
One of the reasons why it's soimportant to do a very thorough
psychological background checkand that the surrogate has a
very stable support system.
Ie, your family and yourfriends was not mentally stable.
(33:55):
They could sort of muddy thewaters there, and so it's it's
super important to do yourresearch, understand that what
the person's home life is.
Have they had a backgroundcheck from a psychological
perspective, like what is theirangle?
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Have they had babies of their own?
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Yes, have they had babies of their own, which that
is again, you should not have asurrogate that did not have a
proven.
In my opinion, I would neversuggest a surrogate that didn't
already have a proven successfulpregnancy, ever.
I don't care how desperate youare for a child, that's not in
my medical experience, in mycommon sense, practical
(34:27):
experience, and I think anylegal or medical person would
probably back me up with that islike number one, two and three
have they had successfulpregnancies in the past?
So you know all of that to say,taking your time and really the
gut feel like, ok, they checkthese boxes, which is all great,
but what's your gut?
(34:48):
Read on this and your intuition, because it really does spend,
spend some time.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
The families and the surrogates spend some time
together.
Before you sign anything,before you agree to anything,
spend at least a little bit oftime.
Have a couple meetings indifferent environments.
Don't just go to thesurrogate's house or the
family's house.
Go out to dinner one night, Goto the park, Be around other
kids, See what the family's likearound other kids for the
(35:14):
surrogate and see what thesurrogate's like around other
kids for families.
I mean, the surrogates have tobe.
Everyone's got to be patientand understanding of the process
, but there's a lot of stuffthat's uncomfortable.
There's a lot of questions thatare uncomfortable that the
family has a right to ask andthat the surrogate has a right
to ask.
I mean, everyone's got tounderstand that this is not a
(35:34):
you know, oh sweet, I'm going tomake some money.
This is going to be fun fornine months.
It's not that simple.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
No, not at all.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Understand it's a process, understand that it's
going to be uncomfortable attimes.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Yeah, which is also why you have to have a lot of
smart people who know what thehell they're doing.
Because, to your point too,it's like your beliefs around,
like what if you have to somehowabort the baby?
What if the baby has a severechromosomal issue?
What if there's something likehealth risk for you?
What if you go?
(36:05):
I mean there are a millionthings.
And that's where the legal teamthat my legal team out of
Cincinnati was like top notch,um, so great, and just helped.
You can't avoid every landmine,like you never know what's going
to happen.
There could be some crazycircumstance, but for the most
part, if you get a legal teamand your life insurance, um, but
(36:28):
they will help you with yourlife insurance.
Like all the policies, theyhave seen things.
They know what to look for.
Life insurance like all thepolicies, they have seen things.
They know what to look for.
They understand all of thedetails.
Like how many embryos are yougoing to like?
How many times are you going totry if you keep miscarrying?
Like that was one thing with us.
When you said earlier about thehiccup when we had the
miscarriage, I was like, oh God,are they going to be done?
(36:48):
Because it's too, becauseyou're going through a
miscarriage on my behalf.
Right, I was just a wreck overthat and you know, when you not
to say you couldn't have saidyou know I can't do this anymore
, but up front you make thatdecision together like we'll do
this.
I think it was like three timesor something.
So there's all those like themore detailed and just really
like pragmatic and methodicalyou can be in the beginning.
(37:11):
So it just helps so much.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
No matter how absurd the question seems, ask it.
Yes, it does not matter howridiculous it seems or how over
the top it seems.
There was stuff with the firstone and I was like, well, you're
going to have to have a wholenew wardrobe, right, right?
I mean like, are we buyingclothes?
It's not something you wouldeven think about, but but like,
no matter how ridiculous youthink the question is, ask yeah,
(37:34):
and if your attorneys are goodwhich they should be they put
stuff in there for that.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
They give you like a monthly stipend for things.
Or you know, in our, in oursituation, two people ask us all
the time about the relationshipand like the communication.
I'm like I would always like,once a month, want to do
something nice for them becauseI wanted to.
But sky was also very good atjust receiving.
She wasn't like we didn't haveto go through this back and
forth of like, but I'm like Iwant to do this.
(37:58):
She's like great, I willreceive this, and so we would do
dinner.
Hell yeah, did Dan's come in,right, but again we had that
Like I like talking to you, Iliked all of that.
But you can build that stuffinto an agreement where, like,
if you're a moat, like I canalso understand.
Like being an intended parent,like, let's say, you were really
mourning the loss of being ableto carry your own child and
(38:20):
this was not a happy process foryou, like my.
My situation was one situation,so you have to remember
somebody else.
It may be triggering, like eventalking to a surrogate right
which seems counterintuitive,but it's out there and so you
can build those things in aheadof time to be like, hey, I want
to really care for this personbut I can't really have
(38:42):
communication, you know.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
But all of that upfront, don't wait do not wait
and be honest about it upfront,yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Another big, big question is being in the room
you know with.
Does the surrogate want you tobe in the room for the delivery?
I'm sure there are somesurrogates maybe not.
I would feel like most of themwould probably be okay with it.
Um, but you know, of course wehad our adjoining rooms and I
kept coming into your room like,like.
So do you think it's awkward ifI come back in?
(39:10):
I know you're in labor andeverything, but I kind of miss
you guys.
I mean, I don't know if we'regoing to have that with every
relationship, but I was sad whenyou guys remember me.
I was sad when you guys leftthe hospital.
Yeah, I was like, oh, thatmeans yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
I was like damn, yeah , we were.
I was sad too.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
You know.
So I mean you have to just beso, so diligent, Like, for
example, when I had this recentconversation with life insurance
.
They just they just came outwith miscarriage insurance, so
as of January, and so all thesedifferent things that are
available, or changes and likesurrogacy changes state by state
(39:50):
and all the shit that goes on.
Make sure you have someone inyour corner that's been there
and that knows what the hellthey're doing.
You know anything else likemisconceptions or anything you
want people to know aboutcouples that choose to do to be
surrogates?
Speaker 2 (40:06):
I think and I know we keep coming back to this, but I
definitely think that you, thesurrogate and their partner,
have to be honest withthemselves and honest about the
relationship with themselves.
If you, I think that, deep down, people know who they are, uh,
and you either know that this issomething you can do or you
don't.
You're either a selfish personor you're not a selfish person.
(40:28):
I don't care which way you go,but you have to be honest,
because this is this is alegitimate commitment.
This is not like, yeah, we'lltry it out, and if it doesn't
work, fine, that's not how thisworks.
And so I think that, as acouple, you have to be honest
with yourselves, that you'restrong enough to go through this
.
This is not for everybody.
This is not just a paycheck.
(40:49):
This is something that is goingto affect you physically,
emotionally both people, notjust the surrogate.
And I think that if you cannotbe honest and say we are strong
enough to get through somethinglike this, imagine because I
think for me, I always imaginethe worst and decide if I can
handle the worst.
If I can handle the worst, youknow what I mean.
(41:12):
So we get six months into itand something happens, sky is at
risk.
We have to make these kinds ofdecisions.
Are we strong enough?
Not, am I strong enough.
Are we strong enough to handlethat?
And if you can honestly saythat you're strong enough to
handle as a couple, to handlethe worst case scenario, then
you should do it, because it'sgoing to be hard to find
(41:33):
anything more rewarding even asa couple, not just the surrogate
, but even as the partner.
It's unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
We were all in tears.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
I know I wasn't in tears.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Oh no, your eyes were really dry that day.
You can cut that I was not intears.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
My kids might listen to this.
I don't cry in front of them.
You can cut that.
Your eyes were really dry thatday.
You can cut that.
I was not in tears.
My kids might listen to this.
I don't cry in front of them.
You can cut that.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Oh, my god, I mean that was like the bet, like
those pictures, too, that we had, I mean it, just like I felt
like my body had left the ground, you know, and like having the
whole village, having thatexperience, and like that's
where you look at it and you'relike, well, shit you.
This may sound weird to mostpeople and most people don't
have to go through this, but forthose who do like to make sure
(42:20):
they get something in thatneighborhood of that experience
is very important to me.
Yeah, they deserve that,because if you're in that
situation, you've probablyworked really, really hard and
you're probably in an emotionalstate and like you deserve the
other side of the rainbow.
And you guys were definitelythe other side of the rainbow
for us big time it was.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
It was legitimately surreal.
I'm not, uh, I'm not an overlyemotional person, I'm not a you
know, I don't have all thesehigher ideas about life and what
things are like, but it was, itwas, it was something it's.
It is completely indescribable.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
And you know to your point about it's not just a
paycheck.
It's like if it's really greatto get some money for sure, are
you kidding me If you have allthe other stuff with it?
Like you love being pregnant,you have, you know, had really
great, great pregnancies.
You have a partner who's onboard.
All the money should be likenumber.
It should be on the list, butit should be the last thing on
(43:19):
the list, because when you toyour point the unthinkable or
the shit that you have to gothrough, and when you divide all
that by like 11 months orwhatever, it's fine.
But it's not like you'regetting 10 million dollars, I
mean.
So you know, I think youbalance the altruism and then,
oh, by the way, I get a nice,you know, chunk of change to do
(43:40):
X, y and Z with.
But if you're front loadingwith, oh, we can make some quick
cash.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
If that's why you're doing it, don't do it.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
I definitely could not agree with that more and I
just don't think you're going tobe the right.
You have to have the heart.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
For sure Right.
Anything else before we closeout this wonderful,
awe-inspiring chat with my, like, two of my absolute faves.
I don't know, just it's themost fulfilling thing that you
could ever do.
So if there's anybody thatwants to be a surrogate and you
know that, you know you can doit.
(44:17):
You're not worried about, youknow, giving up the baby.
Maybe you're worried aboutwhat's going on with your body,
whatnot?
Just do it.
It's the most fulfilling thingyou could ever imagine.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Yeah, and again, be honest.
Like I said, I mean you knowtrust your wife.
Like, Like I said, I mean youknow trust your wife Like she
knows her body, she knows whatshe can handle.
But you need to, as the partner, you need to make sure that you
can handle it.
Yeah, and don't lie to yourselfand don't say, well, I'm going
to do it because she wants to doit, that's not a reason to do
it.
You need to make sure youunderstand it's a commitment.
(44:50):
You know, when people getpregnant and you go through the
pregnancy and you're like, well,it's okay, it's worth this,
it's worth the suffering becausewe're gonna have a baby at the
end, we're gonna have it likewe're gonna have a kid.
Well, this is, is it worth thesuffering to then not have the
baby?
You're not going home with this.
Like the reason people getpregnant ideally is because they
want to have kids.
And you're doing that part ofit without the Final part, like
(45:13):
the whole reason that you did itin the first place you don't
have that reason, yeah, so makesure you understand it's not.
It's not.
This is not a normal pregnancy.
This is not.
Oh, my wife's just pregnantagain.
That that is not even close towhat this is physically it is,
but everything else involved isnot.
It's not a normal pregnancy,yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:32):
Him being so supportive and there for all the
appointments and like at myside the entire time was a game
changer like that.
I couldn't have done it withoutyou.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
You guys are cute, you really are.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Yeah, it's taken a lot of work.
It's taken a lot of time to getto this Listen we can.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Let's do a little pivot here into just marriage,
shall we?
If we were all just beinghonest, marriage is the
universe's design to like fuckwith you, like it is truly, can
be the best thing in the world,but it could also be one of the
most frustrating.
Like you're, you, like it's,like the world is like day, oh,
(46:11):
and no, we're going to put youwith this person.
There's no way out, there's noway out.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
You fuckers figure it out.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
The more you're honest and just show your light,
Everybody else is like oh, Ifeel seen and then we can just
like, have better conversationsand relationships and like, and
besides that I do hate to spoileverybody's like facade.
People know, we all know twohuman beings living together.
(46:39):
It's a challenge.
You ever cry over Skye, Likebecause you love her so much?
Speaker 2 (46:47):
That's a weird question, very loaded.
That's a loaded question.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
I love you so much.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Scott, I feel like there's no way I get out of this
without either looking like agiant pussy or an asshole.
But you're my baby, you're myall-time lady.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
I get emotional sometimes.
No, I'm sure you do.
But men, I mean men, have youknow again, you have to have
more of a.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
there's a natural, there's a natural veneer, you
know, there's no doubt andthere's no doubt that I think
that you know again such acliche.
But society has built up thatthis is what's masculine and
this is what's not masculine,and I think that there are guys.
I don't.
I don't think that I subscribeto that.
I don't think that I'm I holdmy emotions in because I feel
like I need to be masculine.
(47:29):
I feel like it's just the wayyou was raised.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
I mean my, you know my dad doesn't show a ton of
emotion.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
It's just not his thing, um, and I think that
that's I kind of like, that'swhat I kind of fell into, that
same kind of thought process.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
We could have a whole other podcast about marriage,
though, oh my gosh, couldn't we?
Yeah, we've got lots of adviceand lots of stories.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Yeah, and just like our experiences.
I mean, you know she hasparents that are still married.
Grandparents stayed married thewhole time.
I have parents that weredivorced and remarried and
grandparents that were divorcedwhen they were grandparents and
remarried.
I mean like so we have a lot ofwe've seen a lot of stuff, a
lot of options, it's a wholething.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
Well, I love you guys , we love you, we love you.
We love you guys so much You'relike my faves and I can't wait
for us to have another gathering.
I don't know what it's going tobe.
Speaker 3 (48:21):
This summer you guys can come swim, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
Yeah, please, please.
I need to justify the cost ofowning a pool, so please come.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
All right, you two, you've made my week.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
We love you.
You made our week too.
Thank you.
I was so excited to come here.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
And I've got Chef Dog coming in this week, I've got
Dr Jane coming in.
I mean it's a jam-packed.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
Dr Jane.
I love Dr Jane.
Speaker 1 (48:39):
It's a jam-packed infertility series and family
building April.
All right, guys, if you'restill out Spotify, apple or
wherever you get your podcastsand until next time, have
questions about surrogacy, reachout to me.
Clearly, I know people who knowpeople, who know people.
And if you're looking for asurrogate, just go to the
kerrycroftcom and look at myFind your Dream Surrogate
(49:00):
Workshop.
And until next time, keepmoving, baby, If you've made it
to the end of this episode.
Thank you so much for listening.
And if infertility is part ofyour story, we've created a few
powerful ways to support you.
During the month of May, we'relaunching a free Slack channel
because we know firsthand justhow isolating infertility can be
(49:20):
.
Whether you're navigating IVF,grieving a loss, exploring
surrogacy or just need a safeplace to exhale, this space is
here for you.
It's more than a chat thread.
It's a community of support,shared stories and quiet
strength.
Come as you are, ask thequestions, share the wins and
the heartbreaks and know thatyou are not alone in this.
Welcome back to the Keri Croft Show.
What kind of person chooses tocarry someone else's baby?
Not once, but twice.
In this episode I sit down withmy dream surrogate Skye and her
incredible husband Jason, thetwo people who helped bring my
baby girl, kyle, into this world.
Skye opens up about the momentshe realized this path was meant
(00:22):
for her.
She knew she loved beingpregnant and felt deeply called
to help another familyexperience the kind of joy she
already knew so well.
And Jason shares what it tookto get on that same page,
navigating the complex emotions,the deep love and the hard
conversations that made themstronger as a couple.
We get into all of it thehonest talks with their kids,
(00:44):
the sideways glances fromstrangers and the emotional
weight of carrying a baby forsomeone else.
Skye felt everything, but shecarried it all with perspective,
with clarity, with the kind ofemotional strength most people
never get to witness up close,and for me this is deeply
personal.
I will forever be grateful tothem for their courage, their
(01:07):
trust and their willingness tohelp another family come to life
.
Their story is a testament towhat can happen when two
families walk forward with love,respect and purpose, if you're
considering surrogacy or justwant a deeper understanding of
what it really looks like.
This conversation is for you.
Start your journey toparenthood with Pinnacle
Fertility Ohio.
We offer IVF, surrogacy,genetic testing and more,
(01:31):
accepting all insurances andoffering flexible payment plans.
Your dream of parenthood beginswith Pinnacle Fertility Ohio's
immediate, affordable care Booknow at RGIOhiocom.
Okay, I meaniocom, okay, I meanguys, guys, I wouldn't be more
excited if I had, like DenzelWashington in here or some like.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
You should be.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I literally my heart skipped a beat when you said
that you guys were here.
I was like I miss you.
Well, for everyone out there,this is Sky and Jason.
Sky was my surrogate and Jasonwas I.
I mean, what do we even sayabout you?
I mean, we gotta go no, behindthe guy you were the.
I mean, you were so great.
Yeah, you were so fucking greatfrom the beginning.
(02:14):
From the moment I met you guys,I mean you were just such a
supportive, but authenticallylike, genuinely supportive yeah,
and that you in, in for thelike, out outwardly supportive.
There was a lot of behind thescenes stuff that was we're
gonna get into, we're gonna get,we're gonna get into that yeah
we is well, let's start withthis because, um, if, if you're
(02:38):
listening right now and youhaven't listened to sky's
previous episode, where youbasically told everyone how you
guys met and got married, okay,which was like this big you know
, you open Pandora's box,everyone knows now, yeah, right,
and that's cool and it's allgood.
Yes, the kids were.
They like eh, whatever, thegirls I don't remember, I don't
even know yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
I was gonna say they were young.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I mean, they were young, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
I've actually talked to the girls about it more
recently.
Now that they're older, theyask questions now.
So I've kind of gone over thestory with them again a couple
of times and I'm like, but don'tever do that, right.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Right.
So new listeners, you're like,what the hell are you guys
talking about?
And you're probably alreadyannoyed with me.
Which, OK, pump the brakes.
Basically, Sky and Jason kneweach other for 10 seconds, went
to Vegas, got hitched.
The rest is history.
They did the thing, and I bringthat up.
I tee it up with that because Ithink that it takes a certain
personality to look at surrogacyand go, oh great, I'm in.
(03:37):
And so I want to start with,because, Sky, you were a
surrogate twice.
We were your second, albeitfavorite family.
I'm a little territorial, butwhen she first came to you,
jason, give us an idea of whereyou were in your lives, how she
(03:59):
teed up the conversation.
This is the second one.
This is yours.
This is the first one, thefirst time you ever heard that
this woman had this glimmer inher eye to carry another
person's child.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah, it's a lot to take in.
I think that I know her and Iknow how she is and I know that
when she gets passionate aboutsomething, she'll listen to me
but not really hear what I'msaying.
And for me and I say this abouther with everything she wants
to take care of everybody.
She wants to take care of thekids and her parents and my
(04:32):
parents and me, and so there'snobody to take care of her, and
so my number one priority in anysituation is her, and that was
the first thing that I said.
I'm like okay, I understandwhat you're saying, you want to
do this.
How is this going to affect you?
Is this like she had?
We had issues getting pregnant.
We had, you know, there wereissues, postpartum issues with
(04:53):
our kids, and so my concern washer.
So it I don't think that itsunk in what was really being
asked of the two of us.
I think it was more how is thisher?
That's what I immediately wentto, and you know, I think that
once I knew that she was gonnabe okay, then it was okay.
So am I gonna be okay?
(05:13):
So then it's more.
That's when you know my I kindof started thinking about how I
was gonna react to it.
And in the end, I need somebodyin my life that believes in
humanity, and that's her, and soI have to back her up when
she's doing something that shefeels so strongly about.
(05:34):
I know that all the intentionsare good, I know that she's
doing it for all the rightreasons.
I know she may not think itthrough completely because it's
again putting everyone else inthe world first, but I know that
what she's doing is a goodthing, and so I think in the end
we went back and forth with thefirst one.
I mean it was weeks, weeks andweeks of discussions back and
(05:58):
forth.
It was probably a month beforewe even met the couple.
I mean it was a minute just ustalking about it, month before
we even met the couple.
I mean it was, it was a minutejust us talking about it.
And then we met them and andthe first meeting we had with
them was great and it you knowit kind of that put my mind at
ease a little bit, cause that'sthe other thing you want to we
didn't know them.
I don't want to say I'm goingto let my wife sacrifice all of
(06:19):
this, like all of these issuesthat she could have, all of
these concerns that I had forrandom people.
I didn't know who they are.
I mean, you know, I don't wantto give up on our end for people
that don't deserve it.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
It has to feel aligned 100% 100%.
You knew you were doing itright.
You're like I'm just like mostwomen, right, so like guys, just
spoiler alert.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Here's what goes down .
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Okay, here's what goes down.
Okay, here's what goes down.
So the women get this idea andthey are already like okay, I'm
doing this right, yep, I'm doingthis, and we're already sold
and bought in.
And hell hath no fury.
Like someone try to like get inour way.
So you, we just wait to breakyour ass down.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
So you guys can make it easy on yourselves, you can
make it hard.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
So you just knew, like was it always something, or
did something hit you one daywhere you're?
Speaker 3 (07:07):
like it just hit me one day like, um, a family
friend came to us and like kindof brought up the idea because a
family friend of hers was theone that needed the surrogate.
And so as soon as she mentionedit, I was like how have I never
thought about that before?
Like I loved being pregnant andI would love to be able to help
(07:29):
another family achievesomething like that, and it was
just like, yeah, I had neverthought about it before then.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Knowing you, it's like of course.
It's like there was never abetter you know, it makes total
sense.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
I mean my God.
You know, it makes total sense.
Oh, it makes total sense.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I mean, my God, you know, like in my workshop that I
created, it's called Find yourDream Surrogate.
I mean, you are the dream,You're a dream person, let's be
honest, but like you're a dreamsurrogate, thank you For sure.
Describe your relationship andlike your dynamic in three words
, and you guys need to agree onthose three words.
We have to agree on that yeah,like throw some out, and then
you guys need to agree on whatthey are.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Compromise Ugh I knew you were going to say that.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Is ugh a word.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Are we going to do that?
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Before we ever even got together.
The day before the day of theday we did get married, like the
day we went out.
We were at the beach.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
When you were figuring out each other's last
names.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yeah, we hadn't done that yet.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
That came much later, you're like my last name that
came when we were in line Headersheet.
Oh, that has a nice ring to it.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
We were in line for a marriage license when I found
that out.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Yeah, and so that day that's fucking so great.
Just her and I went to thebeach that day and we were
talking about just random thingsand the idea of marriage just
came up and I was like I don'tplan on ever getting married
because I hate the thought ofcompromising.
I don't want to like, I don'twant to have to change any part,
like I like who I am.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
I don't want to change any part of me.
You said I don't want to feelobligated.
Yeah, to go to like her workwork functions, yeah if I don't
want to and I was like.
That seems normal.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah, and so I think that was the.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Customize is a weird word.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah it is.
But I will say marriage is anegotiation, every relationship
is a negotiation.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
I like negotiation much better, Because then I
don't feel like I'm giving in.
I'm saying my side, she'ssaying her side and we come to a
common ground you're saying youguys are good at that, though.
Yes, forgiveness is a big one.
Yeah, that's more so on hermore so on her end.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Oh, I can't imagine sometimes, jason, I can't
imagine you being at allchallenging challenging.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
I like that.
I like that word thoughchallenging doesn't sound,
doesn't have a negativeconnotation.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
No, I think you would be just perfect.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Okay, number three patience I think, and that's
that's on both of our.
We are.
We are very, very differentpeople.
Just at our cores we'redifferent, and so being able to
listen to each other patiently,open, being open-minded about
what the other one is saying,that's something I mean.
(10:09):
I work on that.
I still, I still work on that alot, so do I, um don't we all?
Speaker 1 (10:14):
yeah, yeah, if you're not working on it, you probably
have a problem.
Yes, right, I mean you shouldbe checked out.
You need to be, you need to beworking on that.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
All show me a couple that says they don't work on it
and I'll show you two liars, oryou're just checked out and like
yes, yeah, yeah, exactly yes.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
This just in Marriage , it be work, yeah, work.
W-e-r-k.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, yes.
Exclamation point 100%.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
So you basically, so she brings this thing, yeah, and
you're kind of shitting yourpants.
Yes, not kind of, you weretotally shitting your pants
fully.
And then how did you guysbroach it with the kids and did
they even have a?
Did they even flinch?
Speaker 3 (10:53):
at this point, the first time around, they were
young colin was old enough heknew exactly what was going on.
Let's see, caitlin had justbeen born.
So caitlin was one, yeah, um,so that means riley was five and
colin was seven.
So colin and riley kind of knew.
We just told them very kind ofplainly, like mommy's gonna help
(11:14):
this family have a baby, webought a book about it um that
we read to caitlin um and thenwe kept them very involved.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
We let they talk to the baby.
They talked to the baby theytalked to the baby Talked to
mommy's belly Like we, almostlike it was going to be their
sibling, yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
But they knew that the baby was not coming home
with us yes, Like from day one.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
And they got to meet the family and hang out with the
family.
They did have a daughter whowas Riley's age.
So, like they got to hang outand play and so they knew that
the baby was going to thatfamily and so, yeah, we just
kept everybody involved.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
So next step is you know family and friends.
What are you going to like,what are they going to think and
how do we or did you guysreally not even care too much
about that?
Speaker 3 (12:00):
We didn't really take friends into consideration.
I did talk to my parents aboutit because I'm close with my
parents and of course they are alot like jason, like worried
about me, like how hard is itgoing to be on my body because I
had just had caitlin um, I waseven older at that time as far
as pregnancy is concerned, sobut in the end they know me well
enough to like him just getbehind and yeah, and really with
(12:24):
as far as and my mom was theone who suggested the idea, so
because she worked at theinfertility at the clinic, and
so it really that wasn't.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
It wasn't a big deal.
And as far as our friends go Imean we didn't take our friends
into consideration when we gotmarried I think that we, I think
that's one thing that we arevery good about is outside
influence we yeah, it's reallyus we make decisions based on us
and we don't really for betteror for worse, don't really care
what anyone else thinks yeah,any awkward, weird moments with
(12:55):
people like intrusive questionsor stupid stuff, oh, everything
that was my favorite.
It was my favorite because thenI constantly got to say, oh yeah
, my wife's pregnant withsomeone else's kid.
It was my favorite because thenI constantly got to say, oh
yeah, my wife's pregnant withsomeone else's kid and just
watch people's face.
Oh my God, like their face.
It went from smiling to justcompletely dropped immediately.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
It was awesome.
It was so much fun for both ofthem, for both of the
surrogacies, I'm sure it wasamazing.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
I loved it Because it was, oh, my wife's pregnant
with someone else's baby.
Oh, this is uncomfortable.
I'm like.
I'm like it's okay, I know thepeople, it's fine.
Just make it even weirder itwas so funny.
She would get so angry and belike no, no, no, I'm a surrogate
, it's fine, I was justuncomfortable.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
I wasn't angry, I just don't like the
uncomfortable and he likes it, Ilove it.
Oh, I mean, I feel like that'sgood.
Like you, at least you're owedthat right, you could have a
little fun with it.
Yes, absolutely, so fastforward.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
You're 43 at the time when you got the inquiry about
moi.
Yeah, now I can only speak frommy side of things, but I would
love to hear your raw and uncutkind of point of view on the day
that we met, uncut kind ofpoint of view on when, the day
(14:08):
that we met.
So, of course, you know, justgive a quick background for
again people who haven'tlistened or new to the scene we
had recently lost jade.
I was in a complete like mental, you know, juggernaut.
We put this whole thingtogether, dr shepherd and I, and
we get this.
Dr shepherd's like, we got's,like we got this email.
She sounds really cool and she,she's like, reading it to me
over the phone, I'm like, oh mygosh, she sounds really lovely.
(14:30):
And so we were trying not toget our hopes up and it was like
I just need to convince myhusband and we're like you know,
behind the scenes we're likefuck yeah we're going to
convince the husband, all right.
And we were like going back andforth, like who is this guy,
like how hard is he gonna fight?
You know, we usually win, wealways win this.
So we're like having these,like you know, back and forth.
Is he gonna, is he gonna sayyes?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
what's he gonna do?
It's gonna be this battle justassuming.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Yeah, oh, for sure so probably because of the way I
wrote the email well, andbecause you were 43 at the time
and because you've done itbefore and this is our point of
view, right, so you've got thisguy who already was on board
once.
You're now 43, like okay, wehave to.
Just, we were really hanging onto like we knew that was a big
thing, like we were likepicturing, like oh my god, when
(15:14):
are they how?
We were just like, because wereally had this vibe about you
and your name, sky, we're like,oh, is this, is this the
universe?
So we get to the point with you.
You talk to your ob, you talkedit.
You know jason's universe.
So we get to the point with you.
You talk to your OB.
You talked to you know Jason'sa go.
And then we were having themeeting.
I was so I had two left feet.
It was like I was 16, gettingready to like go on my first
(15:36):
date.
I was looking out the window.
You guys, you pull up with yourkids.
I was like Dr Shepard was there, brady was there, and we go
outside and we sit together atthe picnic table.
So what was your debrief afteryou guys left?
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Do you want to start?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
And not to toot your horn or anything but it was so
comfortable.
And I do not like to meet newpeople.
It is not my thing.
I have the same two friendsI've had for the last 20 years.
I don't need new friends.
I don't need new people.
In my life.
I've got a nice little core andso for me to be comfortable when
(16:15):
I first meet someone is that'ssomething it doesn't happen all
the time.
And from the time I walked in,like just when you came out, you
know, you and I have talked andyou say that I have this energy
, the energy that you broughtout of that house I was like, oh
my God, like came up, hugged usimmediately, like it, just
everything felt very, verynatural and I think that when we
(16:35):
left, it was, it was a relieffor me that we had made the
right decision, and I say we, inthe end, she's going through
the majority of it, but it is adecision that we had made the
right decision.
And I say we, in the end she'sgoing through the majority of it
, but it is a decision that weboth have to make.
And we accept it.
You accept that, I accept that,and in the end it was like man
we this is it.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
This was, yeah.
I remember getting in the carand just being like, oh my God,
this is perfect, like this is someant to be.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
I want to party with you.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
We were like when can we hang out with?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
them again.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
We've got to set something up now.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Well, you know it's funny.
It's like I knew I don't knowand like it's funny.
Actually, I understand.
I say it's funny but Iunderstand totally when you say
you hate meeting new people.
Someone would never get thatfrom you because you're so
seemingly extroverted.
But I'm the same way where Ihave that same internal thing.
You had such a quiet but I knewlike a strong presence.
(17:33):
I just felt so safe, likeknowing I'm, like if I had the
honor, like if she will, if shewill have me, how blessed, how
lucky are we to have her.
Like I was, just I was sittingnext to you, just like, oh my
gosh.
And then I felt the same way,like I'm like we're gonna,
they're gonna be at Kyle's Sweet16.
Like I mean, this is like I knewit and like I know, when I talk
(17:57):
to people now because I havebecome this advocate for people
in this workshop and I'm nowoffering like doing one-on-one,
like walk with you to find thesurrogate, when I talk to
couples, I have to kind oftemper my experience a little
bit because it almost feels toogood to be true.
It's unbelievable, right like,and I and I that's what I tell
people.
I have actually this girl who'sgoing through it right now and
(18:20):
she's so sweet and she's askingme a lot of questions and
recently she sent me a text andshe said did your surrogate?
Or she said, did you have ababy shower and did you invite
the surrogate and did you gether a print?
And all I did was send her thephoto of you in the middle of
all my friends.
I go, well, I go, it's kind ofwe kind of like it was kind of
(18:40):
her baby shower and like, yes,I'm like I treated her like a
queen because I wanted to andshe liked it and we both loved
it.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I'm like again, I'm not trying to say this is right
for everyone but it was just sofucking great and it still can
like I my excitement to see youguys today probably isn't the
average.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
You're like, standing out there I'm like, oh yeah,
there they are.
So I mean, feeling was mutual.
Feeling was mutual.
Give a little behind the scenesthough, of like when she's
pregnant with somebody it's ninemonths she's in a bad mood or
she's tired and like all thisstuff causes stress, it causes
tension.
But now it's like stress andtension on behalf of like I
(19:22):
don't care how much you likebrady and I, you're like, fuck
these guys, they're out, youknow living their same life.
And I'm dealing with this shit.
Like how did like arguments?
Or like, were you saltysometimes?
Or were you like how did thatwork?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
I I would love to say , like I would love to have this
story about all of thisconflict that we had and how we
overcame it.
Was this difficult time, itjust wasn't.
I I don't know if it's becausewe had been through before.
I don't know if we've beenthrough a lot of, a lot of shit
in our marriage.
Like us as a couple, we've beenthrough a lot of stuff.
(19:59):
I mean, you get married.
You get married you don't evenknow a person, so you spend your
first year getting to know andthat's like your first year of
dating.
It's amazing.
Well then the second year islike your first year of marriage
, which, from what I'm told, isbrutal for most people, and so
we went through a lot of shit,and so I think that we have a
very, we have a strongrelationship, and so I think and
and it helped that we had justmoved into a house that had a
(20:21):
pool, so that summer, like, Iwas enjoying the pool and you
know she was pregnant, but shewas able to get into the I mean
it was, I don't know it it therewasn't a lot of there wasn't a
lot of that arguments andconflict, and I don't know and I
I think that's good to hear.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
I think that's good for people to hear that like
what I think, when you're bothon board with something and you
feel aligned in it and thatyou're doing something like this
, because I I think the pointthat I want people to understand
there's a lot of them, but it's.
It sounds so overwhelming andso crazy, but it's really.
It's really not.
I mean, it is like a pregnancyis very serious.
(20:56):
I'm not trying to minimize that, but it isn't like I don't know
.
I think it doesn't have to belike this huge, crazy, wild
thing it is what you make of ityeah, for sure 100 and pregnancy
always like chills me outanyways and it helps that she's
had good pregnancies.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Like I, I don't know.
I like I can't speak to.
You know, I can't speak tohaving a rough pregnancy and
what you go through, like as the, as the husband, what you go
through if your wife is sick allthe time feels like crap, all
the time, upset, grumpy, all thetime.
I just I just didn't have todeal with that, and so I think
(21:33):
that that you know that made ita little easier for me.
You know, when she's sick Ilike taking care of her.
That's not a problem for me, soI don't mind.
You know, I always say I'd muchrather take care of her than
have to have her take care of me.
So that's why when I'm sick, Ijust go lock myself in my room
and tell everyone to stay thehell away from me, but when
she's sick I want to be rightnext to her the whole time, you
know.
And so I think that because ofthat I don't know she she
(21:57):
doesn't want me to take care ofher all the time, and so a lot
of times she doesn't even tellme that she's not feeling well.
So I think we just I don't know.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
it's just easier and the pool definitely helped a lot
when I was uncomfortable.
I would just go float in thepool.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Pools in the summer, always, always help.
Yeah, do.
Surrogacy experience broughtyou guys closer 100 absolutely,
yeah, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
And I think that and again to your point talking it,
it has to be weird for youtalking to other people that go
through difficulty finding asurrogate and then having to
interview multiple surrogatesand just not clicking and it
just doesn't work out.
And you know it, I don't know itworked out so well for us, the
pregnancy went so well for us.
There just weren.
You know, we had the hiccupthere the one time and we just,
(22:39):
you know, kind of resetourselves and got right back
into it and everything was fine.
So I think that, again, it'sall about when it comes to the
surrogate, it's all about therelationship with her partner.
If there's a strongrelationship with her partner,
the surrogacy will be fine.
And you know again not tryingto be argumentative when you
have a baby inside of you, thosebabies like I'm not one that
(23:01):
says, oh, the baby's in a, thepregnancy is in a bad
environment, the baby will bebad.
But I do think that it canaffect how they come out, how
they are when they're little.
If they're in a calmenvironment, when they're in the
womb and they come out, I thinkthat there's a chance that
they're gonna be calm.
I think that just seems likecommon sense to me.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
And so, yeah, that's a very big deal, and that's
another thing.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
So when we're you know she's pregnant with someone
else's baby, I almost feel likewe're more cautious about it,
because we're, it's not ours.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
It's not ours.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yeah, we, you know our kids.
We can scream and holler ateach other because we're dealing
with it.
Dealing with it when they comeout, but like when it's someone
else, I think we were probably alittle more cautious than we
were with our kids.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
I bet the sex life was a little.
You're like oh, don't want topoke over here, Don't want to
poke over there, Got somebodyelse's baby in you.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
That was the one time .
I don't think I was cautious.
I didn't really think about itwhen that was going on.
Luckily it all turned out fine,so it's okay.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
All good, all good, Okay.
So would you do it again if youwere young enough?
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I love being pregnant.
If I could be pregnant for therest of my life, I would.
It just makes me a chill person.
I'm happy.
I don't feel bad about what Ieat.
Yeah, uh, but yeah, my body'slike I'm done well, now for sure
.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
But you're what now?
Speaker 3 (24:24):
44, I just turned 46, 46 just turned, 46 last weekend
my time is like I know it'scrazy but yeah, if I was younger
I would 100% do it again.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
So you're with the workshop, Is it?
Do you talk to surrogates?
Speaker 1 (24:41):
too, like, do you?
So here's how it's going down.
So I created this workshop.
That's basically they can buythe whole like I've gone behind
the scenes and I have basically,from the beginning to end of my
experience, so peeling back thebusiness model of an agency,
talking to all those differentagencies, figuring out what they
charge, all the differentelements, the pillars that go go
(25:01):
into it, what's important.
So I went and just did it'sthis really cool?
Like I didn't want to call it aPowerPoint because that sounds,
but it's like all thesegraphics, audio video of me, um,
walking them through, and thenI have like I'll have this
inside of there too for people.
But I have my attorney did apodcast.
Life insurance did a podcast.
(25:22):
We talk escrow.
We talk about everything fromlike beginning to end, how you
market yourself, build yourA-team, because my strategy with
this because what you weresaying is like talking to people
who aren't a fit it is soimportant that that I you feel
the way, or some of the way thatI felt about you, where I felt
like this baby would be caredfor.
(25:44):
There was never a moment whereI felt anything other than just
blessed and like the like, thisgood feeling, and you can't
discount that because you're sodesperate for a baby that you
just are going to look for thefirst person.
So my strategy is starting withyour core, and so who loves you
more than your core?
No one.
So you enlist your A-teamthat's closest to you that have
(26:06):
access to pockets of people Forexample, jesse Pizzuti, people
who maybe if you have a teacherwho has access to an email list
in a school system, of course,labor and delivery nurses, dr
Shepard, she has 45practitioners.
You create that marketingmaterial, you galvanize your
core and you give them all thethings they need and then you
(26:27):
send them out and then you gointo the universe and I believe
a million percent that that is abetter strategy.
And I believe a million percentthat that is a better strategy
If you are.
So the workshop is for someonewho, first of all, cannot afford
$150,000 ticket for an agency.
They can't afford a two-yearwait list.
Not all of them have that, butthere are some.
(26:48):
And if you are resourceful andyou can manage a complex process
.
So, like there are differentthings, you're dealing with
legal, you're dealing with lifeinsurance, escrow, the surrogate
relationship, the what ifs thatcome with growing a life inside
of you.
So you have to be able to kindof Aaron Brockovich the
situation.
But there are me's out there whothis is perfect for that will.
(27:11):
They won't have to spend all ofthat, and I believe that you
know too.
The surrogate should get paidmore than what they get paid, so
like, if you're not paying allthat money, then maybe you could
like even if it's like 10% more.
Or you know, some of thesesurrogates are making $30,000.
That's not enough, especiallywhen you see the agency getting
(27:35):
paid $150,000.
Now, $30,000 is low on the lowend, but still the surrogate's
the hero, you know.
So the workshop is basicallyplug and play.
You do it yourself.
I'm here for like help.
Q&a-wise want to hire me to dothe one-on-one?
Then I will enlist my networkwith your network, walk with you
(28:03):
and take the lead on managingthis stuff so you don't have to,
for like a fraction of theprice.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
That's amazing.
I mean there's there.
There has to be a huge marketfor that.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
I think it's funny.
When we went through the firstsurrogacy, I think people that
we would talk to people we wouldtalk to talk to would be like
she's doing what Is that even athing?
And with the second one therewere still plenty of people that
didn't understand what it was.
But I do feel like more peoplewe talked to maybe they knew us
and they knew what we hadalready been through.
But I do think that it'sbecoming more and more a thing
(28:30):
and people are getting morefamiliar with it than it was
when we did it the first timeOne of the nurses that I worked
with in the ER.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
She just was a surrogate for her sister last
year, so I feel like it'sbecoming more common.
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
I mean, and you have same-sex couples trying to get
pregnant and build families, youhave women who are older and
you have just the people whohave medical conditions that are
putting their bodies at riskbecause they don't feel like
there's another way.
So I do.
I mean, the demand for it isridiculous and I just want to be
like I can't wait, Like this isso new and I've started talking
(29:08):
to couples.
I am so excited to get my firstcouple where I'm like that
couple, we're going to findsomebody Like I'm hitching that
couple we gonna find somebodylike, like, like, I'm hitching.
Like I am, like I cannot.
You know Dr Shepard's ready tolike light up all the same
marketing.
I have a sister now that's anOB.
I mean you're in the NICU, wehave got so many reasons right
and like, just with thiscommunity that I've built, that
(29:30):
that they hear surrogacy I wantyou to think Keri Croft,
Surrogacy, like I say it all thetime, I just can't wait Like
I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
It's awesome.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
So for people who are having the conversation or
maybe this just gave them alight bulb moment of like, oh my
God, I never thought aboutbeing a surrogate what would be
like the biggest piece of advicefor the couple considering it.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Biggest piece of advice?
Well, the couple.
They have to be on the samepage.
So you've got to talk it outand be on the same page right
off the bat.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yeah, there can be doubt when you're first talking
about it, but when you sign onthe dotted line for lack of a
better term you have to be 100%on the same page.
You have to be there, cannot be, it can't be the.
You know my side, the husband,father, can't say I mean, I
think it'll be fine, then don'tdo it.
(30:25):
It's the because then you knowyou talked about what kind of
arguments did you have at theend?
What kind of conflict did youhave?
I think that that conflict comesfrom not being on the same page
right from the start.
And again, take your time.
Don't jump into it Like don'tlet the wife or the surrogate or
the spouse, don't let them takecontrol and just say we're
(30:47):
doing it, take the time to talkabout it, take the time to
research, make sure you reallyunderstand what it means.
Yeah, it worked out great forus, but I'm sure that there's,
for every story that we have,there's probably 10 stories
where it's not like that, and soyou really need to make sure
you do your research and you areon the same page and you have
(31:09):
to stay on the same page.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
You're right, like you have to communicate through
the entire thing.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Yeah, you can't say, oh yeah, I'm 100 in and then one
month into it say, well, I mean, I wasn't really 100 and that's
not gonna work.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
It doesn't work like that well, you really did walk
the walk, because to say thatyou're 100 in, but then you know
, you, you went, and I'm notsaying you have to come to every
single appointment, but butjust I mean, you went to every
single appointment, you didn'tmiss one.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
And so I think, when you're considering it, you have
to remember like you shouldtreat it as if it was your, like
your child, in terms ofcommitment to the partner, um,
and maybe try to come to, if youcan't make all of them like,
really be as supportive as youcan.
Walking the walk.
Walk as opposed to like yeah,you got a yes from me, so I'm
going to be a dick the rest ofthe nine months and you go, do
(31:56):
that.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
I'm going to be over here.
That's a great point.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
That's a great point being involved.
You need to still.
You can't just say I'm in butthen not be involved.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Yeah, it's not just her thing.
You have to be involved in it.
You're in it together.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Yep For sure.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
And like in terms of preparing emotionally and
mentally before stepping intothe journey, I think just time,
research, communication,definitely, and going with your
gut yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
And really understanding, really like talk
to people that have beensurrogates.
I'm sure that there areresources out there.
There are people that arewilling to talk to you.
Talk to a surrogate and seewhat it's like to carry a baby
for nine months and then give itup, like that's that's what I
can't.
That's what I can't.
I, I just from my side.
I can't wrap my head.
I just can't wrap my headaround that.
What emotionally, what thatdoes um to a surrogate, I mean,
(32:43):
it's that I just can't.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
I just can't even imagine that I get every time I
tell somebody that I've been asurrogate, like how can you
carry a baby and then just giveit up?
Like well, I'm not giving it up, like I was basically
babysitting, like I feel like inmy brain I just am able to look
at it as like babysitting, I'mfostering, you know, this
beautiful baby and for a family,and it's the most fulfilling
(33:10):
and rewarding thing that youcould ever imagine.
And being able to do that foranother family is it's just ind
fulfilling and rewarding thingthat you could ever imagine.
And being able to do that foranother family is it's just
indescribable.
So I just never.
It was never giving.
I was never giving up my babybecause it wasn't my baby.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
You know what I mean I do, and I think that brings up
a great point when you'rebeginning your search for a
surrogate, the reason why it'sso important.
One of the reasons why it's soimportant to do a very thorough
psychological background checkand that the surrogate has a
very stable support system.
Ie, your family and yourfriends was not mentally stable.
(33:55):
They could sort of muddy thewaters there, and so it's it's
super important to do yourresearch, understand that what
the person's home life is.
Have they had a backgroundcheck from a psychological
perspective, like what is theirangle?
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Have they had babies of their own?
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Yes, have they had babies of their own, which that
is again, you should not have asurrogate that did not have a
proven.
In my opinion, I would neversuggest a surrogate that didn't
already have a proven successfulpregnancy, ever.
I don't care how desperate youare for a child, that's not in
my medical experience, in mycommon sense, practical
(34:27):
experience, and I think anylegal or medical person would
probably back me up with that islike number one, two and three
have they had successfulpregnancies in the past?
So you know all of that to say,taking your time and really the
gut feel like, ok, they checkthese boxes, which is all great,
but what's your gut?
(34:48):
Read on this and your intuition, because it really does spend,
spend some time.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
The families and the surrogates spend some time
together.
Before you sign anything,before you agree to anything,
spend at least a little bit oftime.
Have a couple meetings indifferent environments.
Don't just go to thesurrogate's house or the
family's house.
Go out to dinner one night, Goto the park, Be around other
kids, See what the family's likearound other kids for the
(35:14):
surrogate and see what thesurrogate's like around other
kids for families.
I mean, the surrogates have tobe.
Everyone's got to be patientand understanding of the process
, but there's a lot of stuffthat's uncomfortable.
There's a lot of questions thatare uncomfortable that the
family has a right to ask andthat the surrogate has a right
to ask.
I mean, everyone's got tounderstand that this is not a
(35:34):
you know, oh sweet, I'm going tomake some money.
This is going to be fun fornine months.
It's not that simple.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
No, not at all.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Understand it's a process, understand that it's
going to be uncomfortable attimes.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Yeah, which is also why you have to have a lot of
smart people who know what thehell they're doing.
Because, to your point too,it's like your beliefs around,
like what if you have to somehowabort the baby?
What if the baby has a severechromosomal issue?
What if there's something likehealth risk for you?
What if you go?
(36:05):
I mean there are a millionthings.
And that's where the legal teamthat my legal team out of
Cincinnati was like top notch,um, so great, and just helped.
You can't avoid every landmine,like you never know what's going
to happen.
There could be some crazycircumstance, but for the most
part, if you get a legal teamand your life insurance, um, but
(36:28):
they will help you with yourlife insurance.
Like all the policies, theyhave seen things.
They know what to look for.
Life insurance like all thepolicies, they have seen things.
They know what to look for.
They understand all of thedetails.
Like how many embryos are yougoing to like?
How many times are you going totry if you keep miscarrying?
Like that was one thing with us.
When you said earlier about thehiccup when we had the
miscarriage, I was like, oh God,are they going to be done?
(36:48):
Because it's too, becauseyou're going through a
miscarriage on my behalf.
Right, I was just a wreck overthat and you know, when you not
to say you couldn't have saidyou know I can't do this anymore
, but up front you make thatdecision together like we'll do
this.
I think it was like three timesor something.
So there's all those like themore detailed and just really
like pragmatic and methodicalyou can be in the beginning.
(37:11):
So it just helps so much.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
No matter how absurd the question seems, ask it.
Yes, it does not matter howridiculous it seems or how over
the top it seems.
There was stuff with the firstone and I was like, well, you're
going to have to have a wholenew wardrobe, right, right?
I mean like, are we buyingclothes?
It's not something you wouldeven think about, but but like,
no matter how ridiculous youthink the question is, ask yeah,
(37:34):
and if your attorneys are goodwhich they should be they put
stuff in there for that.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
They give you like a monthly stipend for things.
Or you know, in our, in oursituation, two people ask us all
the time about the relationshipand like the communication.
I'm like I would always like,once a month, want to do
something nice for them becauseI wanted to.
But sky was also very good atjust receiving.
She wasn't like we didn't haveto go through this back and
forth of like, but I'm like Iwant to do this.
(37:58):
She's like great, I willreceive this, and so we would do
dinner.
Hell yeah, did Dan's come in,right, but again we had that
Like I like talking to you, Iliked all of that.
But you can build that stuffinto an agreement where, like,
if you're a moat, like I canalso understand.
Like being an intended parent,like, let's say, you were really
mourning the loss of being ableto carry your own child and
(38:20):
this was not a happy process foryou, like my.
My situation was one situation,so you have to remember
somebody else.
It may be triggering, like eventalking to a surrogate right
which seems counterintuitive,but it's out there and so you
can build those things in aheadof time to be like, hey, I want
to really care for this personbut I can't really have
(38:42):
communication, you know.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
But all of that upfront, don't wait do not wait
and be honest about it upfront,yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Another big, big question is being in the room
you know with.
Does the surrogate want you tobe in the room for the delivery?
I'm sure there are somesurrogates maybe not.
I would feel like most of themwould probably be okay with it.
Um, but you know, of course wehad our adjoining rooms and I
kept coming into your room like,like.
So do you think it's awkward ifI come back in?
(39:10):
I know you're in labor andeverything, but I kind of miss
you guys.
I mean, I don't know if we'regoing to have that with every
relationship, but I was sad whenyou guys remember me.
I was sad when you guys leftthe hospital.
Yeah, I was like, oh, thatmeans yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
I was like damn, yeah , we were.
I was sad too.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
You know.
So I mean you have to just beso, so diligent, Like, for
example, when I had this recentconversation with life insurance
.
They just they just came outwith miscarriage insurance, so
as of January, and so all thesedifferent things that are
available, or changes and likesurrogacy changes state by state
(39:50):
and all the shit that goes on.
Make sure you have someone inyour corner that's been there
and that knows what the hellthey're doing.
You know anything else likemisconceptions or anything you
want people to know aboutcouples that choose to do to be
surrogates?
Speaker 2 (40:06):
I think and I know we keep coming back to this, but I
definitely think that you, thesurrogate and their partner,
have to be honest withthemselves and honest about the
relationship with themselves.
If you, I think that, deep down, people know who they are, uh,
and you either know that this issomething you can do or you
don't.
You're either a selfish personor you're not a selfish person.
(40:28):
I don't care which way you go,but you have to be honest,
because this is this is alegitimate commitment.
This is not like, yeah, we'lltry it out, and if it doesn't
work, fine, that's not how thisworks.
And so I think that, as acouple, you have to be honest
with yourselves, that you'restrong enough to go through this
.
This is not for everybody.
This is not just a paycheck.
(40:49):
This is something that is goingto affect you physically,
emotionally both people, notjust the surrogate.
And I think that if you cannotbe honest and say we are strong
enough to get through somethinglike this, imagine because I
think for me, I always imaginethe worst and decide if I can
handle the worst.
If I can handle the worst, youknow what I mean.
(41:12):
So we get six months into itand something happens, sky is at
risk.
We have to make these kinds ofdecisions.
Are we strong enough?
Not, am I strong enough.
Are we strong enough to handlethat?
And if you can honestly saythat you're strong enough to
handle as a couple, to handlethe worst case scenario, then
you should do it, because it'sgoing to be hard to find
(41:33):
anything more rewarding even asa couple, not just the surrogate
, but even as the partner.
It's unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
We were all in tears.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
I know I wasn't in tears.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Oh no, your eyes were really dry that day.
You can cut that I was not intears.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
My kids might listen to this.
I don't cry in front of them.
You can cut that.
Your eyes were really dry thatday.
You can cut that.
I was not in tears.
My kids might listen to this.
I don't cry in front of them.
You can cut that.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Oh, my god, I mean that was like the bet, like
those pictures, too, that we had, I mean it, just like I felt
like my body had left the ground, you know, and like having the
whole village, having thatexperience, and like that's
where you look at it and you'relike, well, shit you.
This may sound weird to mostpeople and most people don't
have to go through this, but forthose who do like to make sure
(42:20):
they get something in thatneighborhood of that experience
is very important to me.
Yeah, they deserve that,because if you're in that
situation, you've probablyworked really, really hard and
you're probably in an emotionalstate and like you deserve the
other side of the rainbow.
And you guys were definitelythe other side of the rainbow
for us big time it was.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
It was legitimately surreal.
I'm not, uh, I'm not an overlyemotional person, I'm not a you
know, I don't have all thesehigher ideas about life and what
things are like, but it was, itwas, it was something it's.
It is completely indescribable.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
And you know to your point about it's not just a
paycheck.
It's like if it's really greatto get some money for sure, are
you kidding me If you have allthe other stuff with it?
Like you love being pregnant,you have, you know, had really
great, great pregnancies.
You have a partner who's onboard.
All the money should be likenumber.
It should be on the list, butit should be the last thing on
(43:19):
the list, because when you toyour point the unthinkable or
the shit that you have to gothrough, and when you divide all
that by like 11 months orwhatever, it's fine.
But it's not like you'regetting 10 million dollars, I
mean.
So you know, I think youbalance the altruism and then,
oh, by the way, I get a nice,you know, chunk of change to do
(43:40):
X, y and Z with.
But if you're front loadingwith, oh, we can make some quick
cash.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
If that's why you're doing it, don't do it.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
I definitely could not agree with that more and I
just don't think you're going tobe the right.
You have to have the heart.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
For sure Right.
Anything else before we closeout this wonderful,
awe-inspiring chat with my, like, two of my absolute faves.
I don't know, just it's themost fulfilling thing that you
could ever do.
So if there's anybody thatwants to be a surrogate and you
know that, you know you can doit.
(44:17):
You're not worried about, youknow, giving up the baby.
Maybe you're worried aboutwhat's going on with your body,
whatnot?
Just do it.
It's the most fulfilling thingyou could ever imagine.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Yeah, and again, be honest.
Like I said, I mean you knowtrust your wife.
Like, Like I said, I mean youknow trust your wife Like she
knows her body, she knows whatshe can handle.
But you need to, as the partner, you need to make sure that you
can handle it.
Yeah, and don't lie to yourselfand don't say, well, I'm going
to do it because she wants to doit, that's not a reason to do
it.
You need to make sure youunderstand it's a commitment.
(44:50):
You know, when people getpregnant and you go through the
pregnancy and you're like, well,it's okay, it's worth this,
it's worth the suffering becausewe're gonna have a baby at the
end, we're gonna have it likewe're gonna have a kid.
Well, this is, is it worth thesuffering to then not have the
baby?
You're not going home with this.
Like the reason people getpregnant ideally is because they
want to have kids.
And you're doing that part ofit without the Final part, like
(45:13):
the whole reason that you did itin the first place you don't
have that reason, yeah, so makesure you understand it's not.
It's not.
This is not a normal pregnancy.
This is not.
Oh, my wife's just pregnantagain.
That that is not even close towhat this is physically it is,
but everything else involved isnot.
It's not a normal pregnancy,yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:32):
Him being so supportive and there for all the
appointments and like at myside the entire time was a game
changer like that.
I couldn't have done it withoutyou.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
You guys are cute, you really are.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Yeah, it's taken a lot of work.
It's taken a lot of time to getto this Listen we can.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Let's do a little pivot here into just marriage,
shall we?
If we were all just beinghonest, marriage is the
universe's design to like fuckwith you, like it is truly, can
be the best thing in the world,but it could also be one of the
most frustrating.
Like you're, you, like it's,like the world is like day, oh,
(46:11):
and no, we're going to put youwith this person.
There's no way out, there's noway out.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
You fuckers figure it out.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
The more you're honest and just show your light,
Everybody else is like oh, Ifeel seen and then we can just
like, have better conversationsand relationships and like, and
besides that I do hate to spoileverybody's like facade.
People know, we all know twohuman beings living together.
(46:39):
It's a challenge.
You ever cry over Skye, Likebecause you love her so much?
Speaker 2 (46:47):
That's a weird question, very loaded.
That's a loaded question.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
I love you so much.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Scott, I feel like there's no way I get out of this
without either looking like agiant pussy or an asshole.
But you're my baby, you're myall-time lady.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
I get emotional sometimes.
No, I'm sure you do.
But men, I mean men, have youknow again, you have to have
more of a.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
there's a natural, there's a natural veneer, you
know, there's no doubt andthere's no doubt that I think
that you know again such acliche.
But society has built up thatthis is what's masculine and
this is what's not masculine,and I think that there are guys.
I don't.
I don't think that I subscribeto that.
I don't think that I'm I holdmy emotions in because I feel
like I need to be masculine.
(47:29):
I feel like it's just the wayyou was raised.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
I mean my, you know my dad doesn't show a ton of
emotion.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
It's just not his thing, um, and I think that
that's I kind of like, that'swhat I kind of fell into, that
same kind of thought process.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
We could have a whole other podcast about marriage,
though, oh my gosh, couldn't we?
Yeah, we've got lots of adviceand lots of stories.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Yeah, and just like our experiences.
I mean, you know she hasparents that are still married.
Grandparents stayed married thewhole time.
I have parents that weredivorced and remarried and
grandparents that were divorcedwhen they were grandparents and
remarried.
I mean like so we have a lot ofwe've seen a lot of stuff, a
lot of options, it's a wholething.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
Well, I love you guys , we love you, we love you.
We love you guys so much You'relike my faves and I can't wait
for us to have another gathering.
I don't know what it's going tobe.
Speaker 3 (48:21):
This summer you guys can come swim, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
Yeah, please, please.
I need to justify the cost ofowning a pool, so please come.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
All right, you two, you've made my week.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
We love you.
You made our week too.
Thank you.
I was so excited to come here.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
And I've got Chef Dog coming in this week, I've got
Dr Jane coming in.
I mean it's a jam-packed.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
Dr Jane.
I love Dr Jane.
Speaker 1 (48:39):
It's a jam-packed infertility series and family
building April.
All right, guys, if you'restill out Spotify, apple or
wherever you get your podcastsand until next time, have
questions about surrogacy, reachout to me.
Clearly, I know people who knowpeople, who know people.
And if you're looking for asurrogate, just go to the
kerrycroftcom and look at myFind your Dream Surrogate
(49:00):
Workshop.
And until next time, keepmoving, baby, If you've made it
to the end of this episode.
Thank you so much for listening.
And if infertility is part ofyour story, we've created a few
powerful ways to support you.
During the month of May, we'relaunching a free Slack channel
because we know firsthand justhow isolating infertility can be
(49:20):
.
Whether you're navigating IVF,grieving a loss, exploring
surrogacy or just need a safeplace to exhale, this space is
here for you.
It's more than a chat thread.
It's a community of support,shared stories and quiet
strength.
Come as you are, ask thequestions, share the wins and
the heartbreaks and know thatyou are not alone in this.
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