October 12, 2025 • 53 mins
In this second part of our interview with Roger O’Donnell, we dive deeper into Roger’s time with The Cure by walking through each Cure album Roger worked on in reverse order. We also chat on composing for ballet, a great on-stage train wreck and a whole lot more. Watch Part 1 here. To listen /...
The post Roger O’Donnell – The Cure / Psychedelic Furs / Solo Artist (Part 2) appeared first on The Keyboard Chronicles.
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(00:00):
I'm thinking, okay, when I'm playing Just Like Heaven for the nine millionth time, youjust have to look into the audience and people love it.
Hello and welcome to the Keyboard Chronicles, a podcast for keyboard players.
(00:21):
I'm your host, David Holloway.
And as always, I'm pumped to be here.
Welcome to part two of our interview with the amazing Roger O'Donnell.
As you heard in part one, we covered quite a bit of ground with Roger's career musicalupbringing, near 40 years with The Cure.
Well, that continues.
We talk a lot more about The Cure and a whole lot of other interesting topics and anamazing on-stage train wreck.
(00:43):
And it's one that you definitely won't have heard before.
some brilliant desert Island dis choices, his work on composing for ballet and a bunchmore.
yeah, do enjoy and I'll talk to you at the end of the show.
(01:07):
And it is worth for those that may not actually be regular, clear listeners, it's worthemphasizing just how well that album slots into the back catalog and particularly from a
live environment.
What stood out to me, Roger, with those songs and all the older songs is just how powerfulyour performances are still in a live setting.
I mean, I've watched your BBC in the Park performance, your Glastonbury stuff over recentyears and that.
(01:30):
As a band, I'd argue you've never been stronger.
I mean, it's still a joy for you playing live generally.
Yeah, I think 2019, you mentioned Glastonbury.
We really were, we were, you know, we were firing on all cylinders there.
That was, it was a festival tour, festival year.
And Glastonbury was pretty much the peak of it, I think.
(01:53):
We were, we were a five piece then and it was very, very powerful.
we know each other's playing and there's room and you know, you can.
It was a shorter show at Glastonbury, so you can use all your energy in one go.
And I mean, that's that, I think that stands as one of the best performances of the band.
(02:16):
And so let's jump back to 2004 to the self-titled the album, The Cure.
And you obviously had an involvement with that.
Recollections of that and the process as we work our way back.
It was a dreadful, dreadful period.
We, um, we worked with a producer called Ross Robinson and think he had his own idea ofwhat the cure was.
(02:41):
And we've got our idea and it's, I think it was an interesting process.
mean, you know, everybody talks about the worst album of their career and
working in a studio and it being a nightmare and that was mine.
So.
And this was one, If I've got it correct, this was the one where he would want you to allsort of play together in the studio to record the songs.
(03:08):
Yeah, yeah, he would throw plates and things and hang skeletons up.
was like, you know, The Cure's music can be extremely dark, but we're not like that as agroup of people.
We, you know, if you spend a weekend with us, it's a lot of fun.
(03:30):
And we don't have black candles and inverted crucifixes in our houses.
I think what you were saying earlier about my solo record, our emotions, m my emotionscome out in my music.
And I think the Cure's emotion, you know, it comes out in the music.
And, for example, one day Simon and I walked into the studio and there's hammering away athis bass, twiddling with the amp.
(03:59):
And Simon says to him, Ross, what the fuck are you doing?
And Ross goes, I'm trying to get that classic Cure sound.
And Simon's like, uh, hello.
I was playing keyboards one day on a track and I know what it's supposed to sound like.
I know what it needed.
And, uh, Ross was like, wow, man, that's, that's just, you know, that is the cure rightthere.
(04:25):
And I'm like, yeah, Ross, I'm the fucking keyboard player in the cure.
Ross is a nice guy, super nice guy.
We've had our ups and downs.
don't want to say anything bad about him.
hugely successful producer.
Um, but bringing, you know, some heavy, uh, new metal producer in from California intoOlympic studios in a very cold winter of 2003, it just, uh, it just didn't work.
(04:54):
You you have to be more than a, than a fanatical cure fan to be a producer.
You you need to know how to challenge what we do, not try and falsify it.
You need to ask what we do and why we do it and make it better.
(05:17):
it was, yeah, I remember walking around the corner of the studio on the first day and itwas like 12 weeks booked.
like, I can do this.
I can do this.
I can make it through it.
I can do it.
And,
I did make it through.
I did.
I only have one outburst, which is what he wanted.
He wanted us all to have these like emotional break.
(05:39):
And we're not like that, but I lost it once and I was so pissed off at myself because Iwas like, he won.
So yeah, not, not a great experience and I'm not a great sounding record and, and we don'tplay any songs from that record.
Yeah.
uh
occasionally do play one song, uh which name alludes me, but it's got synth solo in it.
(06:07):
You know, that's, that's great.
And so this is probably the worst juncture to bring this up, but you've mentioned aboutthe songwriting process and you obviously have, as a band do write songs together here and
there.
So it's probably the worst juncture to bring this up, but what, what is the secret ofsuccess when you are working together as to band to songwriting?
Is it partly what we're talking about before that Robert hasn't surrounded himself withyes people that there is, you know, there is a bit of spark there between the members.
(06:33):
How does it tend to.
uh as far as writing songs or is it different every time?
Uh, well, it's not so much writing songs together.
It's so we, we all bring in demos and then the demos, if they make it past the sort offirst level of scrutiny, get played pretty much as you write them.
(06:53):
There's not really a collaboration.
Um, I mean, the collaboration is that then Robert writes words for it and sings it.
But if you listen to the demos of say one of Simon's songs.
It will sound 95%, well, the actual finished version will sound 95 % like the demo.
(07:17):
So it's more, it's less of a collaboration, more of a individual kind of writing process.
We don't sit in a room together and bang out at court, you know, that would be weird.
No, that's good.
That answer that beautifully.
And I'll skip over 413 dream because I don't believe you had an involvement with that one.
(07:37):
my off periods.
No keyboards, rubbish.
Yeah, tight.
oh So we'll go back to the amazing blood flowers.
So again, tell us about your recollections and obviously the role you played there, whichwas pretty pivotal.
As finally again, was, that was quite, a Robert solo record at the time I thought.
(08:05):
em but I did play extensively on that record.
We, and in fact, lot of my playing on that was done during the demo stage and thepre-production stage because I would just, you know, the songs didn't vary that much and I
played midi, you know, we recorded the midi.
So when it came to the, um, the actual recording, I wasn't, I wasn't that much involved.
(08:31):
That was 2000.
We were, we, um, we stayed in this house called St.
Catharines where, so we all lived together, which is where we did the 96 album whileMoosewings.
So it was, uh, it was a lot of fun.
We had a lot of fun during that period.
Um, but it really did feel like that felt like a Robert Seller album.
(08:54):
But it wasn't obviously.
mean, Simon's got songs on that.
And across those four years between Wild Mood Swings and Bloodflowers, was there anychange as far as your approach as a player or even as far as, as you know, over that
period, the keyboard technology, you know, was burgeoning like it always was.
(09:16):
Were there any changes or that was still pretty much same approach on both?
It's pretty much the same approach.
World of Moonswings was the first album that we'd used MIDI on, which gave Robert and theproducer a lot more freedom with sounds because I just play information and then you can
just put any sound on it, which is, lose a lot of control as a keyboard player because youcan go away for the weekend and come back and they put some hideous sound.
(09:48):
on the part that you played and you've got no comeback.
So, um, whereas on disintegration, I was making the sounds and they were recorded.
Um, there was a lot, the samplers were getting smaller and faster.
think we ended up with E fours that we took on the road, uh, in 96, um, and probably 2000.
(10:12):
Yeah.
It was just going crazy.
Wasn't it?
I mean, I always, uh, think about.
how lucky I've been to see the change in technology of keyboards, you know, from a HonaPNF through to like a whatever.
mean, samplers are built into logic now.
You don't even have to have a standalone sampler.
(10:34):
We bought these E4s and they cost an absolute fortune.
And then we put extra RAM in it, which costs them much again.
So,
Yeah, it was a good time.
then it's all sort of imploded, didn't it?
By the time we got to like 99, it was all about virtual instruments and yeah, really.
And now on stage, I use main stage.
(10:56):
I was about to say, I thought this is a perfect time for a left-hand turn, Roger.
That's, that's perfect.
Yeah.
Tell us about your current touring rig and how you manage the diversity of your sounds.
I'd love to hear more about that.
So we put together this rig, 12 I think.
When I came back to the band in 2011 and my keyboard rig was basically the same as it hadsince 1996.
(11:20):
So I thought it was about well time to revamp it.
So I got two Mac minis, well, everything was doubled in case something fails and it stillis.
So a Mac mini, a Mo2, Ultralight.
So most things.
My piano sound comes out of my mother keyboard on stage, which is a Kurtz file, which I'vebeen using, using those for years and years.
(11:45):
They're great.
Uh, and some strings and some stuff comes out of that, but most of it comes out of mainstage.
So I just made, I've got, I think I've got all 120 songs in there and they are all withthe original samples, you know, the Selena's we sampled for, so I can call up any song
(12:05):
from them.
from the Kurtzweil and it's instant.
It loads instantly.
know, it's like, and it sounds real.
I mean, it just sounds like the record.
mean, I don't know.
There's, there's two approaches to how you play an old and loved song.
You go on stage and you play it exactly as it was on the record, or you twist it aroundand make it unrecognizable.
(12:29):
And I'm firmly in the first camp.
When I go and see a band,
I want the song to sound like it does on the record, obviously live, but I'm with thatintensity, but I don't want it to sound different.
I don't want it to be faster or messed up.
Um, so it's, it's very accurate and I spent quite a lot of time, a lot of time with theguys at Apple.
(12:53):
Um, we would share the screen and they would help me set up main stage and make it work.
And it's rock solid.
It's never crashed.
Uh, and it sounds great.
So that goes through the ultralight out to the, I, know, and if Robert wants me to have adelay, I can set it up exactly on a track and it's all stored.
(13:17):
It's all memorized.
And then I'll walk over to the other side of the stage and I'll look at Reeves' guitarpedals and I'm like, how the fuck do you know what any of these are doing?
How do you know that delay is going to be in time with the song?
And he's like, I don't.
You know, he'll hit a pedal and the guitar will go insane.
(13:41):
And he's got no control over it.
I'm sure he doesn't know what half this shit does anyway.
But mine's all very controlled, but I'm a keyboard player.
You know, it's very black and white and clean and laid out.
And I've got a great tech Russ, who used to be with Radiohead and he's all over everythingand nothing ever goes wrong.
(14:02):
And it definitely sounds amazing.
So you've just prompted me on another question I hadn't planned on asking, and that is forthose early sort of seven albums before, or eight albums before you joined, what sort of,
I assume there wasn't much of a handover as far as how you recreated those sounds once youtook over the reins.
So what sort of work was it for you, both for those earlier albums and then, you know,the, what I'll call the sabbatical albums.
(14:26):
How did you go about recreating sounds and approaching that?
the sabbatical albums I refuse to play.
No, I play them.
Um, the old albums, you know, they didn't have much gear back in those days.
So it's not really difficult to, uh, to approximate those sounds.
Um, some of the sounds were handed over to me in 87, like, but I'm, then I've tweaked themand recreated them over the years.
(14:56):
Uh, but.
Yeah, they were difficult because there wasn't a lot of keyboards on them.
Uh, the top album is probably the hardest.
Cause I think there was a lot of drugs going on during that period and the keyboard soundsare all over the place.
Um, but yeah, we got it all down.
Um, the sabbatical albums, I listened to them for a gritted teeth and, uh, I'm usuallynot, it's usually piano.
(15:25):
Cause like when there's no keyboard player in the band, all they ever do is stick piano init.
or something else and then that'll do.
So it's not usually that complicated.
No, absolutely.
and, um, it's there.
So as far as, when you're performing live now, and I definitely don't mean this in anegative way, because a lot of bands need to do it because of the complexity.
(15:51):
you running tracks on top of your playing where it's particularly complex?
No, no, no keyboard tracks.
We use, there, there's a SIMTY track to run the lights and a click for the drums.
Um, but these days you've got to that stuff.
(16:12):
So, no, there's no keyboards on the, there's no backing track keyboards.
Um, I can cover everything.
You know, at one stage I was playing with both hands and both feet.
fact, you're in the disintegration era.
I had a midi foot, you know, foot pedals, so I could play a melody with my feet, but I hadto wear different shoes because it kept falling over.
(16:36):
had these pointy cowboy boots and I couldn't wear it because they were good for gettingthe individual notes, but they they're a bit high.
So, and standing there were trying and also operating uh a swell pedal.
You know, I use, I use a volume pedal quite a lot for bringing sounds in and bringing themout.
Yeah, that was fun.
(16:58):
And I mean, you've mentioned that you have essentially 120 songs, you know, programmed inand you do need to dust some off.
Are there songs that even to this day you find particularly challenging and that thatcould either be an enjoyable or a non enjoyable thing.
I mean, there are obviously some things I'm assuming are just, you know, a day at theoffice, but are there some songs you go, look, that's a real challenge for me.
And the robot will usually put them on the learning list.
(17:21):
And I'll spend a week on each of them and then we'll get into rehearsals and he'd be like,I don't think we'll do that one.
I'm like, yeah, thanks.
The top from the top is incredibly difficult to play.
And I've never got my head around it and I probably don't play it right to this day.
There was, there's a song from Kiss Me Kiss Me called Like Cockatoos, which I learnedwhile I was on tour with the psychedelic furs.
(17:47):
And I can play that in my sleep because I learned it, you know, so it's, it's really achallenge.
I love playing it, you know, and it comes at the end of the song.
So I've got all the song to worry about getting it right.
you know, there, there were years when like disintegration, for example, which is prettymuch a keyboard album.
(18:11):
There's not a huge amount of guitar on them.
And I love playing all the songs from that and none of those are difficult for me.
you know, none of it's really that hard is it?
Let's be honest.
No, and I'm just interested from the viewpoint because as we've talked about your solooutput, there's some quite complex, you know, playing on there that shows that you're
(18:32):
obviously capable of playing complex stuff and on the surface, a lot of the Cure stuff hashuge depth to it.
And I think it goes back to what you were saying.
It's about making it sound huge with not too many notes.
Yeah.
Less is more.
That's it.
And that's, that's what it's all about.
I can't play my album, my solo album.
(18:53):
did the first two, I toured them using Ableton live and loop things, but you know, I justdon't think that's very exciting to watch.
I always, you know, when you see a laptop band, they could, they could just as well be atravel agents booking your next solo day to, you know, turn a reef.
(19:13):
It's not exciting.
And I didn't think me sitting there with two voyagers on stage and a laptop in the middlewas particularly exciting.
Most of the parts on my solo records, I would have only have played once.
You know, I play it, I play the parts, it's recorded.
I don't ever play it again.
(19:33):
And I always think to myself that rehearsing and learning songs is the most dreadfullyboring thing you can ever do.
It's like an artist.
like a painter painting, incredible painting, and then being asked to go and paint it onstage every night.
So they've got to sit there and work out what the colors were.
Once you, okay.
(19:54):
So you've got the, you've got the right tubes of color and then you're going to paint itthe same every night.
I guess it will be slightly different every night, but then people get to, I remember.
So I remember saying, I'm saying to, I was quite involved in the ballet world for a periodbetween.
2012 to, and, uh, 2000, probably 16.
(20:18):
And I remember saying, saying to a prima ballerina in Moscow, what you're doing atChristmas.
And she said, Oh, we're doing nutcracker.
I'm like, Oh God, you must be so bored of doing that.
And she said, no, I love it because I look into the audience and I see the children'sfaces and some of them, it's the first time they've ever seen it and they love it.
And that just resonated with me.
And I'm, thinking, okay, when I'm playing.
(20:41):
just like heaven for the nine millionth time, you just have to look into the audience andpeople love it.
And if you can't extract the enjoyment from that, then you know, why bother?
I love playing those old songs.
You know, we start playing lullaby and I remember that in the studio, I was in, I rememberbeing in the studio when we recorded it or love song.
(21:08):
we would do, m
uh, bass and drums, and I would play a guide keyboard line so that they knew where theywere for the changes.
Not that they really needed it because Boris and Simon were so on it, but I just remembersitting there looking at Simon playing the bass line and recording it that day in
November, 1988.
And I'm on stage in front of 50,000 people and they're laughing every minute of it.
(21:32):
So how can you possibly be bored or jaded?
Uh, the thing about touring that really, that does get you down is the traveling.
You know, and it gets harder and harder with the security in airports and delays and, butI still enjoy flying anyway.
So.
The other part of touring I was interested in finding out more about, you've talked aboutthe painter and having to repaint things.
(21:56):
I mean, how much room do you have as a band, given how iconic some of the songs are, howmuch room do you have for any improvisation or keeping it a bit loose?
It feels like there is some room there, but.
zero.
Because if you do do something, it's going to put everyone else off.
(22:17):
And also if you do do something different, you get the look from Robert.
Although I missed Stucky's look once.
We were doing an acoustic thing on French radio and we were doing a forest and I startedthrowing in some jazz shapes on the grand piano.
(22:37):
And he gave me the look, so I'm like straight back onto the single nose.
And then we get in the dressing room and he's like, why did you stop?
That sounded great.
I'm like, you gave me the look.
He said, yeah, that was the look of love.
But we generally stick to the script.
Yeah.
You know, makes sense.
so let's, mean, you've mentioned in passing disintegration a number of times and I wasobviously keen to get to that.
(23:01):
So I mean, that's one of the iconic albums and your first really deep involvement on therecording side.
Just tell us again, beyond what you already have about your recollections of that time andjust, you know, what an experience.
was, so we were in a residential studio outside Reading, which is about 40 miles out tothe west of London.
(23:21):
It was an old, it was a fantastic house and this barn on the back that had been convertedinto a state of the art 48 track em recording studio.
It was owned by two producers that had done a lot of the madness stuff.
And so we were there for 12 weeks from.
(23:43):
October until the pretty much Christmas and We would start work at like five o'clock inthe afternoon Stop for dinner about a Get completely drunk and Going back in the studio
for about 10 until about 5 o'clock in the morning and go to sleep.
(24:04):
didn't see daylight for three months and We just made this record that weeds
We'd demoed and we'd done pre-production.
we had a um good quality demos of them.
And we just went in there and turned them into an incredible album.
And I said to Robert recently, said, we didn't know what we had when we were, you know,people talk about it as being, well, it's one of the top 100 all time albums, according to
(24:35):
Apple.
And I've got an award for it in.
Oh cool.
Oh wow.
In the shape of like a Mac mini sort of.
exactly.
I thought it was going to be something useful, there it is.
And I, you know, I remember talking to Boris and saying, there's no, there's no singles onthis record.
(24:55):
You know, it's not going to do very well, is it?
And we thought, maybe lullaby.
then so, cause it's quite, you know, groovy kind of vibe.
And then Robert starts singing about spiders and being eaten alive and all that.
God, that's that one out the window.
So, but honestly at the time it was.
I was making my first Cure record.
We were making a record.
(25:17):
didn't, we weren't, we weren't serious about it.
You know, there was a lot of, I remember Robert being in the vocal booth and we'd be likerolling on the floor laughing and then he'd come in and we'd be all like this, oh yeah,
great take Robert.
was, was, oh, that was a cracker.
And that's what it was.
And I said, I didn't think that we knew that it was such a fantastic record.
(25:39):
Of course he claims that he did, but then he would.
And it was a very intense period of work.
Um, you know, with, I don't know how many songs we were probably, I think the idea was wewere going to record them all multitrack, like one at a time, uh, instruments at a time.
(26:01):
And then during the day and then every night we would play song live and that we would usethe live version because that didn't happen, did it?
because you've got no control over it.
And so I think we did try and bash them out at night.
There was a lot of table tennis playing.
Yeah, that's about it.
And with those broader, what let's call them band albums, least for the recording process.
(26:25):
I mean, how much are you leaving in the vault as a general rule?
And I'm sure it does vary, but I mean, if you've got an album of say 12 songs that have 20being done or 10 being done.
Yeah, probably, probably 20.
but then they generally get used for B-sides.
my, I, I, I didn't get any songs on that album, but I got a couple of B-sides.
(26:49):
So I reckon, and they've all been released now on, you know, on the repackaged editions.
Um, so yeah, the, the stuff.
You know, the, not so good tracks get edited out earlier in the process.
(27:11):
So that by the time you're in a, a, um, residential studio, we pained through the, youknow, arm and a leg per day to be there.
You're really concentrating on the songs, you know, we're going to make the record and itwas 48 track analog.
So there were two 24 track machines slaved.
(27:33):
So, uh, that was.
Probably the height of that and pro well, no, was 88.
So digital, digital recording in studios didn't come along for quite a while after that.
That's right.
Uh, I presented my demos on that.
I I was.
(27:54):
Yeah, you were.
Yeah, absolutely.
Cutting edge with that for sure.
Um, and then I want to, I do want to cover off some broader questions if you don't mind,Roger.
So obviously as someone that's got an amazing career, um, to date in music, do you haveany advice you'd give up and coming or aspiring players who want to both develop some good
technical facility and their own unique voice and basically, you know, any advice for howyou survive in today's industry, which is obviously a very different thing.
(28:18):
I've no idea, honestly.
It's a different world to what I started in.
And I had a record label about 20 years ago, but I just don't feel like I've got any ideaabout what's going on.
It seems like a totally different world.
All I ever say to musicians that I meet that ask for advice is like, you better love it.
(28:43):
You better really be passionate about it if you want to do it, cause it's going to destroyyou otherwise.
And don't do it because you think you're going to get famous cause you probably won't.
So you better be doing it because you love it because then you will always have that love,even if you don't make money from it.
Although it can take that away from you.
I mean, I know so many musicians that have just, actually I reconnected with an oldfriend, a bass player that I worked with in the seventies and he just never cracked it.
(29:13):
incredibly talented musician, but never cracked it for whatever reason.
Maybe you'd never met the right people at the right time.
Maybe you wasn't the right person.
Maybe you didn't get on with people.
don't know.
yeah.
And you have to be in the right place at the right time.
And you have to be prepared to play in any different style you want or used to.
(29:36):
I don't know anymore.
I really don't know.
I would advise anyone, just do it because you love it.
You know, make music at home.
You can record at home.
I'm, you know, I've got a studio here.
run logic.
can record.
Um, I can record pre well, all my albums I've recorded at home.
So, unless anyone, unless it is strings and I'll go into studio, although I've got mics Icould use here.
(30:02):
I always fall into that trap of thinking that I don't know enough that I need an engineerwho knows more than me about recording and that I need to have them do it.
But when it comes down to it, they don't know that much more anyway.
So if you want to get a cello sounding good, they've probably got their idea of how itworks.
(30:23):
then, you know, and then you go and record a string quartet and they'll record them withbleed going over uh each other instrument.
So you can't up one instrument above another.
And I'd be like, well, why did you do that?
Why didn't you just isolate them?
you know.
Uh, lot of it's to do with confidence and knowledge, you know, just keep your ears andeyes open all the time.
(30:45):
That's what I did about the business.
Ask questions.
Don't just, you know, the publisher comes and he says, Oh yeah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah.
And then he goes away and you're like, well, what does the publisher do then?
Um, I don't really know.
So find out, you know, ask questions, make sure you know everything you can or don't andbeing completely ignorant, is bliss.
(31:10):
I, um, recently became friends with one of the guys from 10 CC and, he's like, didn't,said, I bet you got ripped off then, didn't you?
He said, yeah, we didn't make any money back in the day, back in the, you know, I guessthey started in the seventies, but you better know what's going on now.
(31:30):
And you can, you can do, you can now.
Yeah, absolutely.
And just, you made a great point about fame before about, know, you're not likely tobecome famous.
One of the things I love about being a keyboard player and definitely a non-famous one,but there's a joke that obviously goes around around keyboard players that, you know, no
one tends to know who we are anyway.
We tend to be up the back.
(31:50):
Is that sort of a mixed blessing for you?
I'm assuming you're able to quite easily walk down the street a lot of the time and you'renot accosted.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It depends where we are.
There are certain places when, uh, people will know more likely to know I am.
it's usual people recognize me.
It was just a very embarrassing situations.
(32:14):
But, I, I look back at keyboard players, you know, in the, before the synth came along.
Although, you know, organ players were out from, but when I think about Jan Hammer andthose kind of guys, they really brought the spotlight to keyboards and they brought the
(32:37):
keyboard player out of the shadows from behind the curtains and onto this front of thestage.
you know, look at the bands from the 80s, Depeche Mode, The Cutes, a certain extent, SoftCell, all those guys.
They are all keyboard driven.
In fact, think it's time for a keyboard revival.
(32:59):
It is.
Get rid of these bloody guitars.
I agree.
It's time for a Cure Synth-Only album.
If they went the other way, they could go back that way.
um So the other question I had was obviously you mentioned about um things sometimes beenembarrassing.
Is there a memorable onstage trainwreck, Roger, you're happy to, regardless with that youcan now look back and laugh about?
(33:24):
Yeah.
So we were playing a festival, I don't know where we were, and I looked to the right ofthe stage and there's this person under one of the lights doing all of these gestures,
dancing and I'm like, what the fuck is going on here?
So I call over one of the crew and it was a jazz, he was a bass tech, think, I don't know,like jazz.
(33:49):
Can you please get that person thrown off the stage?
It's really distracting.
ah
So he came back five minutes later and he said, they're signing for the deaf.
Sign language.
I was trying to get them thrown off the stage.
(34:09):
uh Needless to say, we left them there.
uh
That is truly unique.
Thank you.
We've definitely not heard that one before.
Even the deaf deserve to know what's going on.
Absolutely.
people coming to concerts.
Probably better at some concerts than others.
(34:29):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's wonderful.
Thank you.
And then to get the crystal ball out, Roger, I know this is impossible, but just yourbroad brushstrokes.
What does the next 10 years of your career look like?
I think that the cure, well, Robert said recently that he wants to stop when he'sseventies, four years younger than me.
Um, so we've got about four years of that.
(34:55):
You know, there are plans for, I can't really say anything about, um, but I think nextyear is going to be quite busy.
Uh, then to complete my career.
I've been working on a ballet, a two act ballet of the picture of Dorian Gray for about 12years now.
(35:18):
The music's pretty much all written and my ballet producer, Tatiana, we met recently andwe're like, let's just give it one last push.
And you know, I performed in the Kremlin Palace.
did a duet uh based on Orpheus and Urethes.
And that was, you know, I could take that.
(35:40):
It's kind of like not the crowning moment, but if I had to, I could take that as being asfar as I ever got in, in, uh, in the ballet world.
But if we could do the pitrador in gray, it would just be, you know, just the, it will bethe cherry on top of my career.
mean, I can't, I can't complain.
I've been in some amazing bands.
(36:01):
I've toured the world many, many times, uh, made a great, made
great albums, uh, I've got no complaints.
So that would just be something very, very special for me if we could get that produced,but it's incredibly expensive to do ballet.
You need really, you need a state, uh, ballet company to get behind it.
(36:26):
but that's the, if we get, if I could do that in the next 10 years, uh, I'd die happy.
Yeah
Look, I've got to ask before we get onto the last couple of questions, Roger, mean,writing for ballet is obviously an incredibly specialized task.
And you mentioned with your musical upbringing that, you know, the reading side of things,you obviously picked up some stuff, but it wasn't caught in what you do.
(36:52):
How do you write a ballet?
Um, and like, in a way that makes you happy creatively and, and sort of ticks those boxesfor a ballet to be able to be produced.
Well, so when I first started making music, I had a monophonic synth and also my first twoelectronic albums.
It was all monophonic and all.
(37:14):
So, um, you know, I could only play and I couldn't, um, I couldn't play more than one noteat a time and I couldn't play more than one sound at a time.
So I would have to commit to all of those lines and, uh, it's orchestration.
Really it is.
mean, if you listen to, some of the songs on, songs from the silver box, it's called,yeah.
(37:40):
Um, the orchestration is very intricate.
So instead of, so take out a moog sound and put in a violin, uh, take out another one andput in a cello or put in a French horn.
And you know, it's just a matter of what you've learned over the years.
you what you've listened to and what sounds good together.
(38:03):
And then you just layer it and it, you you start with a simple melody and then you invertit and then you harmonize with it.
And then you end up with all this shit going on and it's that's it.
You know, it's like, and it sounds amazing.
You're like, how did that happen?
I've been re-listening to it lately and I'm like, where did it, where did this all comefrom?
(38:27):
You know,
How did I do this?
Um, and then of course you can give it to an orchestrator, which many of the great, um,Danny Elfman, for example, doesn't do any of his own orchestration.
He just sends it off to a team of people and they cut.
did give one song to the lead cellist of the Bolshoi orchestra who does orchestrations andhe, he did his version of it.
(38:53):
I'm like, that's not really how I hear it.
So I think I'll.
But I work with people, I work with a viola player, who does my scoring that, know, I spitout the scores from logic and then he goes through it and makes it.
I mean, the logic score is pretty good.
Um, but when you, when you've got like 20 instruments or 30 instruments, it gets verycomplex.
(39:18):
So he'll, he'll, you know, straighten everything out for me and make it more readable andtie things where they need tie in all that sort of stuff.
But really, you know, orchestration, it just starts with a melody as well.
Uh, and that's just, you know, and then you add harmonies and, uh, and then countermelodies and I'll send you some of it if you want, if you're interested.
(39:43):
Yeah.
And I'm really, I would love, I would love that.
And are you talking about more of a classical score for the picture of your going gray?
Yeah.
Yeah, it's classic.
It's, um, well, it's orchestral.
And I said to Tatiana the other day, she, and she said, yeah, but it sounds modern.
It's you, you know, it's, it's not classical.
(40:05):
It's orchestral and it's you.
it's orchestral instruments.
Uh, it's not classical.
It's, but I want it to be a classical ballet.
don't, I'm not a big fan of modern dance.
Be on point and, uh, you know,
duets and all that sort of stuff.
know I can see it.
If I could choreograph, I I could, uh, I know how it's supposed to look in my head.
(40:29):
I know how things go.
And that's amazing.
And one last question on that.
Have you to date in your crib had the privilege of standing before a large orchestraplaying your compositions or is that something you've still yet to experience?
Yeah, I've worked with a chamber orchestra in Toronto, a friend of mine, Paul, he's theCorktown Chamber Orchestra.
(40:50):
I wrote a suite for them based on a David Hockney painting.
And we performed that.
played, I played piano with them though.
So I wasn't really standing back, but it's incredible.
You sit there playing and you know every note that everyone's supposed to be playing andyour ears literally move and focus in on the different instruments.
(41:13):
And it can be incredibly frustrating when they get it wrong.
Uh, or they, they were pretty good.
Uh, before we did it with the Coulthard Orchestra, I did it with, uh, an ensemble foryoung musicians in London.
Uh, boy, that was interesting.
uh A lot of, uh, soaring and, uh, I bet it was fun working with kids and trying to, youknow,
(41:41):
because I come from the rock world, you know, not playing on the one and this, there wasthis cello part and this guy was like, I, and I'm like, you just forget the one, just go
and do it.
And he just couldn't do it.
And it was, it was really interesting.
I'm working with, working with, uh, orchestra musicians that only, that can only read thatyou put there, you put an instrument in their hands.
(42:02):
They can't play anything.
Yeah.
And so you put a piece of paper in front of them.
I know a pianist and a company.
And I said, you know, when you just walk up to a piano and sit down and start playing,it's that sort of stream of consciousness.
And she said, I've never experienced that.
(43:17):
Absolutely.
And you mentioned right at the start of the interview, Roger, about when you were ill withthe lymphoma and that you didn't play for a period of time.
Obviously you were feeling unwell, so it wasn't totally front of mind, but how much didyou miss not playing, having to go through months of not playing?
(44:23):
Yeah, makes sense.
um now another emotional conundrum for you, Roger, the desert Island discs question.
So five albums, if you have to choose five, what are they?
(45:37):
Beautiful.
careful.
(46:00):
That's okay, four's fine.
We have a lot of people that do six, so you've evened it out nicely.
That's great.
(46:50):
It is just like...
Yeah.
(47:14):
So he's only on fire.
Yeah.
I've had the chance to him in the last year, Roger.
And absolutely the same experience.
(48:07):
Absolutely.
We're onto our last question, Roger, which we call the quick fire 10.
So just 10 very short and sharp answers to some very simple questions.
So due to some serious crime you've committed, you're sentenced to six months in a tributeband.
What tribute are you choosing?
(48:28):
nice.
Yeah.
Well, might as well go big.
That's great.
Most important pre-gig ritual.
So what do you need to do to feel settled before you play a gig?
Let's use the Cura as the example.
Nice.
If you hadn't been a musician, what do think your career choice would have been?
It makes sense with art school.
(48:49):
This is nearly impossible, but favorite tour you've ever done as a whole entity of as atour.
Even more difficult favourite gig you've ever done.
(49:13):
And this doesn't have to be the cure, be across all of your experiences.
Name a song that you used to love, but you've now played it to death and would happilynever play it again.
There you go.
Yeah, that's right.
Well, it's, sort of a sabbatical album, isn't it?
So yeah.
Yeah.
(49:34):
and, look, as a cover band player that literally does play just like heaven, um, I'mpleased what you said before about just like heaven.
It's so much fun to play.
Um, favorite music documentary or movie.
Are you looking forward to the sequel?
(49:55):
I love it.
Name one thing you'd like to see invented that would make your life as a keyboard playereasier.
Yeah.
Love it.
and last but not least your favorite non-musical activity or hobby.
keeps you sane outside of music?
Oh, Wonderful.
Um, looking, think helicopter, you've taken a helicopter view to music over the years.
(50:20):
mean, your, your output is amazing.
Your creativity and emotion with your music is amazing.
It's been an absolute, I mean, you mentioned before about not saying, don't be silly.
I'm sure you feel.
That way, when I say you're an inspiration to a lot of people, including myself, andcannot thank you enough for taking the time.
(50:52):
That's the way we like it.
uh
And there we have it.
I hope you enjoyed both parts of that interview with Roger O'Donnell.
It was an utter privilege to speak with him, as I mentioned.
You're welcome to turn off now before I go all fanboy in regards to the cure and so on.
(51:16):
But even before I start that, Roger's solo output is utterly amazing.
um Now I may tend to say that about most guests because we're incredibly choosy with ourguests, but getting to listen to Roger's back catalog and the new album.
There is such beauty, emotion, continuity over the three synth albums and then theseamazing orchestrally driven albums as well.
(51:40):
I just cannot recommend highly enough checking it out.
is well and truly worth it.
Now, as far as The Cure, I'm one of those people that The Cure somewhat changed my life asa teenager.
mean, The Head on the Door was a seminal album.
It'd probably be in my Desert Island discs if I ever get the chance to choose them oneday.
Um, but obviously the albums disintegration, old mood swings, blood flowers.
(52:03):
They are all incredible albums that I love to bits as well.
So it was just an absolute, you know, iconic moment getting to speak with Roger and, he'sproven what an amazing musician he has throughout his career.
So yeah, do hope you enjoy that.
Um, thank you for listening a huge shout out to our Goal and Silver supporters.
So the amazing Gary Evans from the Sunnylander Wales.
(52:25):
Thank you, sir, as always.
The lovely Tammy Katcher from Tammy's musical stew cannot thank you enough Tammy for yourongoing and long-term support.
The brilliant Mike Wilcox from Midnight Mastering, if you are creating your own work andwhat a great job on mixing and mastering.
is the go-to guy.
And last but definitely not least the musicplayer.com forums.
(52:47):
We love hanging out there.
We love talking keyboards and everything related to it.
We've recently had a, been having a brilliant chat about AI music and so on.
There's quite a lengthy thread there.
recommend checking out, do go to musicplayer.com and check out the keyboard corner forgreat discussions like that.
Once again, thank you for listening.
Thank you for listening to both those parts.
(53:09):
And as always, we'll be back in a week or two and until then keep on playing.
I'm thinking, okay, when I'm playing Just Like Heaven for the nine millionth time, youjust have to look into the audience and people love it.
Hello and welcome to the Keyboard Chronicles, a podcast for keyboard players.
(00:21):
I'm your host, David Holloway.
And as always, I'm pumped to be here.
Welcome to part two of our interview with the amazing Roger O'Donnell.
As you heard in part one, we covered quite a bit of ground with Roger's career musicalupbringing, near 40 years with The Cure.
Well, that continues.
We talk a lot more about The Cure and a whole lot of other interesting topics and anamazing on-stage train wreck.
(00:43):
And it's one that you definitely won't have heard before.
some brilliant desert Island dis choices, his work on composing for ballet and a bunchmore.
yeah, do enjoy and I'll talk to you at the end of the show.
(01:07):
And it is worth for those that may not actually be regular, clear listeners, it's worthemphasizing just how well that album slots into the back catalog and particularly from a
live environment.
What stood out to me, Roger, with those songs and all the older songs is just how powerfulyour performances are still in a live setting.
I mean, I've watched your BBC in the Park performance, your Glastonbury stuff over recentyears and that.
(01:30):
As a band, I'd argue you've never been stronger.
I mean, it's still a joy for you playing live generally.
Yeah, I think 2019, you mentioned Glastonbury.
We really were, we were, you know, we were firing on all cylinders there.
That was, it was a festival tour, festival year.
And Glastonbury was pretty much the peak of it, I think.
(01:53):
We were, we were a five piece then and it was very, very powerful.
we know each other's playing and there's room and you know, you can.
It was a shorter show at Glastonbury, so you can use all your energy in one go.
And I mean, that's that, I think that stands as one of the best performances of the band.
(02:16):
And so let's jump back to 2004 to the self-titled the album, The Cure.
And you obviously had an involvement with that.
Recollections of that and the process as we work our way back.
It was a dreadful, dreadful period.
We, um, we worked with a producer called Ross Robinson and think he had his own idea ofwhat the cure was.
(02:41):
And we've got our idea and it's, I think it was an interesting process.
mean, you know, everybody talks about the worst album of their career and
working in a studio and it being a nightmare and that was mine.
So.
And this was one, If I've got it correct, this was the one where he would want you to allsort of play together in the studio to record the songs.
(03:08):
Yeah, yeah, he would throw plates and things and hang skeletons up.
was like, you know, The Cure's music can be extremely dark, but we're not like that as agroup of people.
We, you know, if you spend a weekend with us, it's a lot of fun.
(03:30):
And we don't have black candles and inverted crucifixes in our houses.
I think what you were saying earlier about my solo record, our emotions, m my emotionscome out in my music.
And I think the Cure's emotion, you know, it comes out in the music.
And, for example, one day Simon and I walked into the studio and there's hammering away athis bass, twiddling with the amp.
(03:59):
And Simon says to him, Ross, what the fuck are you doing?
And Ross goes, I'm trying to get that classic Cure sound.
And Simon's like, uh, hello.
I was playing keyboards one day on a track and I know what it's supposed to sound like.
I know what it needed.
And, uh, Ross was like, wow, man, that's, that's just, you know, that is the cure rightthere.
(04:25):
And I'm like, yeah, Ross, I'm the fucking keyboard player in the cure.
Ross is a nice guy, super nice guy.
We've had our ups and downs.
don't want to say anything bad about him.
hugely successful producer.
Um, but bringing, you know, some heavy, uh, new metal producer in from California intoOlympic studios in a very cold winter of 2003, it just, uh, it just didn't work.
(04:54):
You you have to be more than a, than a fanatical cure fan to be a producer.
You you need to know how to challenge what we do, not try and falsify it.
You need to ask what we do and why we do it and make it better.
(05:17):
it was, yeah, I remember walking around the corner of the studio on the first day and itwas like 12 weeks booked.
like, I can do this.
I can do this.
I can make it through it.
I can do it.
And,
I did make it through.
I did.
I only have one outburst, which is what he wanted.
He wanted us all to have these like emotional break.
(05:39):
And we're not like that, but I lost it once and I was so pissed off at myself because Iwas like, he won.
So yeah, not, not a great experience and I'm not a great sounding record and, and we don'tplay any songs from that record.
Yeah.
uh
occasionally do play one song, uh which name alludes me, but it's got synth solo in it.
(06:07):
You know, that's, that's great.
And so this is probably the worst juncture to bring this up, but you've mentioned aboutthe songwriting process and you obviously have, as a band do write songs together here and
there.
So it's probably the worst juncture to bring this up, but what, what is the secret ofsuccess when you are working together as to band to songwriting?
Is it partly what we're talking about before that Robert hasn't surrounded himself withyes people that there is, you know, there is a bit of spark there between the members.
(06:33):
How does it tend to.
uh as far as writing songs or is it different every time?
Uh, well, it's not so much writing songs together.
It's so we, we all bring in demos and then the demos, if they make it past the sort offirst level of scrutiny, get played pretty much as you write them.
(06:53):
There's not really a collaboration.
Um, I mean, the collaboration is that then Robert writes words for it and sings it.
But if you listen to the demos of say one of Simon's songs.
It will sound 95%, well, the actual finished version will sound 95 % like the demo.
(07:17):
So it's more, it's less of a collaboration, more of a individual kind of writing process.
We don't sit in a room together and bang out at court, you know, that would be weird.
No, that's good.
That answer that beautifully.
And I'll skip over 413 dream because I don't believe you had an involvement with that one.
(07:37):
my off periods.
No keyboards, rubbish.
Yeah, tight.
oh So we'll go back to the amazing blood flowers.
So again, tell us about your recollections and obviously the role you played there, whichwas pretty pivotal.
As finally again, was, that was quite, a Robert solo record at the time I thought.
(08:05):
em but I did play extensively on that record.
We, and in fact, lot of my playing on that was done during the demo stage and thepre-production stage because I would just, you know, the songs didn't vary that much and I
played midi, you know, we recorded the midi.
So when it came to the, um, the actual recording, I wasn't, I wasn't that much involved.
(08:31):
That was 2000.
We were, we, um, we stayed in this house called St.
Catharines where, so we all lived together, which is where we did the 96 album whileMoosewings.
So it was, uh, it was a lot of fun.
We had a lot of fun during that period.
Um, but it really did feel like that felt like a Robert Seller album.
(08:54):
But it wasn't obviously.
mean, Simon's got songs on that.
And across those four years between Wild Mood Swings and Bloodflowers, was there anychange as far as your approach as a player or even as far as, as you know, over that
period, the keyboard technology, you know, was burgeoning like it always was.
(09:16):
Were there any changes or that was still pretty much same approach on both?
It's pretty much the same approach.
World of Moonswings was the first album that we'd used MIDI on, which gave Robert and theproducer a lot more freedom with sounds because I just play information and then you can
just put any sound on it, which is, lose a lot of control as a keyboard player because youcan go away for the weekend and come back and they put some hideous sound.
(09:48):
on the part that you played and you've got no comeback.
So, um, whereas on disintegration, I was making the sounds and they were recorded.
Um, there was a lot, the samplers were getting smaller and faster.
think we ended up with E fours that we took on the road, uh, in 96, um, and probably 2000.
(10:12):
Yeah.
It was just going crazy.
Wasn't it?
I mean, I always, uh, think about.
how lucky I've been to see the change in technology of keyboards, you know, from a HonaPNF through to like a whatever.
mean, samplers are built into logic now.
You don't even have to have a standalone sampler.
(10:34):
We bought these E4s and they cost an absolute fortune.
And then we put extra RAM in it, which costs them much again.
So,
Yeah, it was a good time.
then it's all sort of imploded, didn't it?
By the time we got to like 99, it was all about virtual instruments and yeah, really.
And now on stage, I use main stage.
(10:56):
I was about to say, I thought this is a perfect time for a left-hand turn, Roger.
That's, that's perfect.
Yeah.
Tell us about your current touring rig and how you manage the diversity of your sounds.
I'd love to hear more about that.
So we put together this rig, 12 I think.
When I came back to the band in 2011 and my keyboard rig was basically the same as it hadsince 1996.
(11:20):
So I thought it was about well time to revamp it.
So I got two Mac minis, well, everything was doubled in case something fails and it stillis.
So a Mac mini, a Mo2, Ultralight.
So most things.
My piano sound comes out of my mother keyboard on stage, which is a Kurtz file, which I'vebeen using, using those for years and years.
(11:45):
They're great.
Uh, and some strings and some stuff comes out of that, but most of it comes out of mainstage.
So I just made, I've got, I think I've got all 120 songs in there and they are all withthe original samples, you know, the Selena's we sampled for, so I can call up any song
(12:05):
from them.
from the Kurtzweil and it's instant.
It loads instantly.
know, it's like, and it sounds real.
I mean, it just sounds like the record.
mean, I don't know.
There's, there's two approaches to how you play an old and loved song.
You go on stage and you play it exactly as it was on the record, or you twist it aroundand make it unrecognizable.
(12:29):
And I'm firmly in the first camp.
When I go and see a band,
I want the song to sound like it does on the record, obviously live, but I'm with thatintensity, but I don't want it to sound different.
I don't want it to be faster or messed up.
Um, so it's, it's very accurate and I spent quite a lot of time, a lot of time with theguys at Apple.
(12:53):
Um, we would share the screen and they would help me set up main stage and make it work.
And it's rock solid.
It's never crashed.
Uh, and it sounds great.
So that goes through the ultralight out to the, I, know, and if Robert wants me to have adelay, I can set it up exactly on a track and it's all stored.
(13:17):
It's all memorized.
And then I'll walk over to the other side of the stage and I'll look at Reeves' guitarpedals and I'm like, how the fuck do you know what any of these are doing?
How do you know that delay is going to be in time with the song?
And he's like, I don't.
You know, he'll hit a pedal and the guitar will go insane.
(13:41):
And he's got no control over it.
I'm sure he doesn't know what half this shit does anyway.
But mine's all very controlled, but I'm a keyboard player.
You know, it's very black and white and clean and laid out.
And I've got a great tech Russ, who used to be with Radiohead and he's all over everythingand nothing ever goes wrong.
(14:02):
And it definitely sounds amazing.
So you've just prompted me on another question I hadn't planned on asking, and that is forthose early sort of seven albums before, or eight albums before you joined, what sort of,
I assume there wasn't much of a handover as far as how you recreated those sounds once youtook over the reins.
So what sort of work was it for you, both for those earlier albums and then, you know,the, what I'll call the sabbatical albums.
(14:26):
How did you go about recreating sounds and approaching that?
the sabbatical albums I refuse to play.
No, I play them.
Um, the old albums, you know, they didn't have much gear back in those days.
So it's not really difficult to, uh, to approximate those sounds.
Um, some of the sounds were handed over to me in 87, like, but I'm, then I've tweaked themand recreated them over the years.
(14:56):
Uh, but.
Yeah, they were difficult because there wasn't a lot of keyboards on them.
Uh, the top album is probably the hardest.
Cause I think there was a lot of drugs going on during that period and the keyboard soundsare all over the place.
Um, but yeah, we got it all down.
Um, the sabbatical albums, I listened to them for a gritted teeth and, uh, I'm usuallynot, it's usually piano.
(15:25):
Cause like when there's no keyboard player in the band, all they ever do is stick piano init.
or something else and then that'll do.
So it's not usually that complicated.
No, absolutely.
and, um, it's there.
So as far as, when you're performing live now, and I definitely don't mean this in anegative way, because a lot of bands need to do it because of the complexity.
(15:51):
you running tracks on top of your playing where it's particularly complex?
No, no, no keyboard tracks.
We use, there, there's a SIMTY track to run the lights and a click for the drums.
Um, but these days you've got to that stuff.
(16:12):
So, no, there's no keyboards on the, there's no backing track keyboards.
Um, I can cover everything.
You know, at one stage I was playing with both hands and both feet.
fact, you're in the disintegration era.
I had a midi foot, you know, foot pedals, so I could play a melody with my feet, but I hadto wear different shoes because it kept falling over.
(16:36):
had these pointy cowboy boots and I couldn't wear it because they were good for gettingthe individual notes, but they they're a bit high.
So, and standing there were trying and also operating uh a swell pedal.
You know, I use, I use a volume pedal quite a lot for bringing sounds in and bringing themout.
Yeah, that was fun.
(16:58):
And I mean, you've mentioned that you have essentially 120 songs, you know, programmed inand you do need to dust some off.
Are there songs that even to this day you find particularly challenging and that thatcould either be an enjoyable or a non enjoyable thing.
I mean, there are obviously some things I'm assuming are just, you know, a day at theoffice, but are there some songs you go, look, that's a real challenge for me.
And the robot will usually put them on the learning list.
(17:21):
And I'll spend a week on each of them and then we'll get into rehearsals and he'd be like,I don't think we'll do that one.
I'm like, yeah, thanks.
The top from the top is incredibly difficult to play.
And I've never got my head around it and I probably don't play it right to this day.
There was, there's a song from Kiss Me Kiss Me called Like Cockatoos, which I learnedwhile I was on tour with the psychedelic furs.
(17:47):
And I can play that in my sleep because I learned it, you know, so it's, it's really achallenge.
I love playing it, you know, and it comes at the end of the song.
So I've got all the song to worry about getting it right.
you know, there, there were years when like disintegration, for example, which is prettymuch a keyboard album.
(18:11):
There's not a huge amount of guitar on them.
And I love playing all the songs from that and none of those are difficult for me.
you know, none of it's really that hard is it?
Let's be honest.
No, and I'm just interested from the viewpoint because as we've talked about your solooutput, there's some quite complex, you know, playing on there that shows that you're
(18:32):
obviously capable of playing complex stuff and on the surface, a lot of the Cure stuff hashuge depth to it.
And I think it goes back to what you were saying.
It's about making it sound huge with not too many notes.
Yeah.
Less is more.
That's it.
And that's, that's what it's all about.
I can't play my album, my solo album.
(18:53):
did the first two, I toured them using Ableton live and loop things, but you know, I justdon't think that's very exciting to watch.
I always, you know, when you see a laptop band, they could, they could just as well be atravel agents booking your next solo day to, you know, turn a reef.
(19:13):
It's not exciting.
And I didn't think me sitting there with two voyagers on stage and a laptop in the middlewas particularly exciting.
Most of the parts on my solo records, I would have only have played once.
You know, I play it, I play the parts, it's recorded.
I don't ever play it again.
(19:33):
And I always think to myself that rehearsing and learning songs is the most dreadfullyboring thing you can ever do.
It's like an artist.
like a painter painting, incredible painting, and then being asked to go and paint it onstage every night.
So they've got to sit there and work out what the colors were.
Once you, okay.
(19:54):
So you've got the, you've got the right tubes of color and then you're going to paint itthe same every night.
I guess it will be slightly different every night, but then people get to, I remember.
So I remember saying, I'm saying to, I was quite involved in the ballet world for a periodbetween.
2012 to, and, uh, 2000, probably 16.
(20:18):
And I remember saying, saying to a prima ballerina in Moscow, what you're doing atChristmas.
And she said, Oh, we're doing nutcracker.
I'm like, Oh God, you must be so bored of doing that.
And she said, no, I love it because I look into the audience and I see the children'sfaces and some of them, it's the first time they've ever seen it and they love it.
And that just resonated with me.
And I'm, thinking, okay, when I'm playing.
(20:41):
just like heaven for the nine millionth time, you just have to look into the audience andpeople love it.
And if you can't extract the enjoyment from that, then you know, why bother?
I love playing those old songs.
You know, we start playing lullaby and I remember that in the studio, I was in, I rememberbeing in the studio when we recorded it or love song.
(21:08):
we would do, m
uh, bass and drums, and I would play a guide keyboard line so that they knew where theywere for the changes.
Not that they really needed it because Boris and Simon were so on it, but I just remembersitting there looking at Simon playing the bass line and recording it that day in
November, 1988.
And I'm on stage in front of 50,000 people and they're laughing every minute of it.
(21:32):
So how can you possibly be bored or jaded?
Uh, the thing about touring that really, that does get you down is the traveling.
You know, and it gets harder and harder with the security in airports and delays and, butI still enjoy flying anyway.
So.
The other part of touring I was interested in finding out more about, you've talked aboutthe painter and having to repaint things.
(21:56):
I mean, how much room do you have as a band, given how iconic some of the songs are, howmuch room do you have for any improvisation or keeping it a bit loose?
It feels like there is some room there, but.
zero.
Because if you do do something, it's going to put everyone else off.
(22:17):
And also if you do do something different, you get the look from Robert.
Although I missed Stucky's look once.
We were doing an acoustic thing on French radio and we were doing a forest and I startedthrowing in some jazz shapes on the grand piano.
(22:37):
And he gave me the look, so I'm like straight back onto the single nose.
And then we get in the dressing room and he's like, why did you stop?
That sounded great.
I'm like, you gave me the look.
He said, yeah, that was the look of love.
But we generally stick to the script.
Yeah.
You know, makes sense.
so let's, mean, you've mentioned in passing disintegration a number of times and I wasobviously keen to get to that.
(23:01):
So I mean, that's one of the iconic albums and your first really deep involvement on therecording side.
Just tell us again, beyond what you already have about your recollections of that time andjust, you know, what an experience.
was, so we were in a residential studio outside Reading, which is about 40 miles out tothe west of London.
(23:21):
It was an old, it was a fantastic house and this barn on the back that had been convertedinto a state of the art 48 track em recording studio.
It was owned by two producers that had done a lot of the madness stuff.
And so we were there for 12 weeks from.
(23:43):
October until the pretty much Christmas and We would start work at like five o'clock inthe afternoon Stop for dinner about a Get completely drunk and Going back in the studio
for about 10 until about 5 o'clock in the morning and go to sleep.
(24:04):
didn't see daylight for three months and We just made this record that weeds
We'd demoed and we'd done pre-production.
we had a um good quality demos of them.
And we just went in there and turned them into an incredible album.
And I said to Robert recently, said, we didn't know what we had when we were, you know,people talk about it as being, well, it's one of the top 100 all time albums, according to
(24:35):
Apple.
And I've got an award for it in.
Oh cool.
Oh wow.
In the shape of like a Mac mini sort of.
exactly.
I thought it was going to be something useful, there it is.
And I, you know, I remember talking to Boris and saying, there's no, there's no singles onthis record.
(24:55):
You know, it's not going to do very well, is it?
And we thought, maybe lullaby.
then so, cause it's quite, you know, groovy kind of vibe.
And then Robert starts singing about spiders and being eaten alive and all that.
God, that's that one out the window.
So, but honestly at the time it was.
I was making my first Cure record.
We were making a record.
(25:17):
didn't, we weren't, we weren't serious about it.
You know, there was a lot of, I remember Robert being in the vocal booth and we'd be likerolling on the floor laughing and then he'd come in and we'd be all like this, oh yeah,
great take Robert.
was, was, oh, that was a cracker.
And that's what it was.
And I said, I didn't think that we knew that it was such a fantastic record.
(25:39):
Of course he claims that he did, but then he would.
And it was a very intense period of work.
Um, you know, with, I don't know how many songs we were probably, I think the idea was wewere going to record them all multitrack, like one at a time, uh, instruments at a time.
(26:01):
And then during the day and then every night we would play song live and that we would usethe live version because that didn't happen, did it?
because you've got no control over it.
And so I think we did try and bash them out at night.
There was a lot of table tennis playing.
Yeah, that's about it.
And with those broader, what let's call them band albums, least for the recording process.
(26:25):
I mean, how much are you leaving in the vault as a general rule?
And I'm sure it does vary, but I mean, if you've got an album of say 12 songs that have 20being done or 10 being done.
Yeah, probably, probably 20.
but then they generally get used for B-sides.
my, I, I, I didn't get any songs on that album, but I got a couple of B-sides.
(26:49):
So I reckon, and they've all been released now on, you know, on the repackaged editions.
Um, so yeah, the, the stuff.
You know, the, not so good tracks get edited out earlier in the process.
(27:11):
So that by the time you're in a, a, um, residential studio, we pained through the, youknow, arm and a leg per day to be there.
You're really concentrating on the songs, you know, we're going to make the record and itwas 48 track analog.
So there were two 24 track machines slaved.
(27:33):
So, uh, that was.
Probably the height of that and pro well, no, was 88.
So digital, digital recording in studios didn't come along for quite a while after that.
That's right.
Uh, I presented my demos on that.
I I was.
(27:54):
Yeah, you were.
Yeah, absolutely.
Cutting edge with that for sure.
Um, and then I want to, I do want to cover off some broader questions if you don't mind,Roger.
So obviously as someone that's got an amazing career, um, to date in music, do you haveany advice you'd give up and coming or aspiring players who want to both develop some good
technical facility and their own unique voice and basically, you know, any advice for howyou survive in today's industry, which is obviously a very different thing.
(28:18):
I've no idea, honestly.
It's a different world to what I started in.
And I had a record label about 20 years ago, but I just don't feel like I've got any ideaabout what's going on.
It seems like a totally different world.
All I ever say to musicians that I meet that ask for advice is like, you better love it.
(28:43):
You better really be passionate about it if you want to do it, cause it's going to destroyyou otherwise.
And don't do it because you think you're going to get famous cause you probably won't.
So you better be doing it because you love it because then you will always have that love,even if you don't make money from it.
Although it can take that away from you.
I mean, I know so many musicians that have just, actually I reconnected with an oldfriend, a bass player that I worked with in the seventies and he just never cracked it.
(29:13):
incredibly talented musician, but never cracked it for whatever reason.
Maybe you'd never met the right people at the right time.
Maybe you wasn't the right person.
Maybe you didn't get on with people.
don't know.
yeah.
And you have to be in the right place at the right time.
And you have to be prepared to play in any different style you want or used to.
(29:36):
I don't know anymore.
I really don't know.
I would advise anyone, just do it because you love it.
You know, make music at home.
You can record at home.
I'm, you know, I've got a studio here.
run logic.
can record.
Um, I can record pre well, all my albums I've recorded at home.
So, unless anyone, unless it is strings and I'll go into studio, although I've got mics Icould use here.
(30:02):
I always fall into that trap of thinking that I don't know enough that I need an engineerwho knows more than me about recording and that I need to have them do it.
But when it comes down to it, they don't know that much more anyway.
So if you want to get a cello sounding good, they've probably got their idea of how itworks.
(30:23):
then, you know, and then you go and record a string quartet and they'll record them withbleed going over uh each other instrument.
So you can't up one instrument above another.
And I'd be like, well, why did you do that?
Why didn't you just isolate them?
you know.
Uh, lot of it's to do with confidence and knowledge, you know, just keep your ears andeyes open all the time.
(30:45):
That's what I did about the business.
Ask questions.
Don't just, you know, the publisher comes and he says, Oh yeah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah.
And then he goes away and you're like, well, what does the publisher do then?
Um, I don't really know.
So find out, you know, ask questions, make sure you know everything you can or don't andbeing completely ignorant, is bliss.
(31:10):
I, um, recently became friends with one of the guys from 10 CC and, he's like, didn't,said, I bet you got ripped off then, didn't you?
He said, yeah, we didn't make any money back in the day, back in the, you know, I guessthey started in the seventies, but you better know what's going on now.
(31:30):
And you can, you can do, you can now.
Yeah, absolutely.
And just, you made a great point about fame before about, know, you're not likely tobecome famous.
One of the things I love about being a keyboard player and definitely a non-famous one,but there's a joke that obviously goes around around keyboard players that, you know, no
one tends to know who we are anyway.
We tend to be up the back.
(31:50):
Is that sort of a mixed blessing for you?
I'm assuming you're able to quite easily walk down the street a lot of the time and you'renot accosted.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It depends where we are.
There are certain places when, uh, people will know more likely to know I am.
it's usual people recognize me.
It was just a very embarrassing situations.
(32:14):
But, I, I look back at keyboard players, you know, in the, before the synth came along.
Although, you know, organ players were out from, but when I think about Jan Hammer andthose kind of guys, they really brought the spotlight to keyboards and they brought the
(32:37):
keyboard player out of the shadows from behind the curtains and onto this front of thestage.
you know, look at the bands from the 80s, Depeche Mode, The Cutes, a certain extent, SoftCell, all those guys.
They are all keyboard driven.
In fact, think it's time for a keyboard revival.
(32:59):
It is.
Get rid of these bloody guitars.
I agree.
It's time for a Cure Synth-Only album.
If they went the other way, they could go back that way.
um So the other question I had was obviously you mentioned about um things sometimes beenembarrassing.
Is there a memorable onstage trainwreck, Roger, you're happy to, regardless with that youcan now look back and laugh about?
(33:24):
Yeah.
So we were playing a festival, I don't know where we were, and I looked to the right ofthe stage and there's this person under one of the lights doing all of these gestures,
dancing and I'm like, what the fuck is going on here?
So I call over one of the crew and it was a jazz, he was a bass tech, think, I don't know,like jazz.
(33:49):
Can you please get that person thrown off the stage?
It's really distracting.
ah
So he came back five minutes later and he said, they're signing for the deaf.
Sign language.
I was trying to get them thrown off the stage.
(34:09):
uh Needless to say, we left them there.
uh
That is truly unique.
Thank you.
We've definitely not heard that one before.
Even the deaf deserve to know what's going on.
Absolutely.
people coming to concerts.
Probably better at some concerts than others.
(34:29):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's wonderful.
Thank you.
And then to get the crystal ball out, Roger, I know this is impossible, but just yourbroad brushstrokes.
What does the next 10 years of your career look like?
I think that the cure, well, Robert said recently that he wants to stop when he'sseventies, four years younger than me.
Um, so we've got about four years of that.
(34:55):
You know, there are plans for, I can't really say anything about, um, but I think nextyear is going to be quite busy.
Uh, then to complete my career.
I've been working on a ballet, a two act ballet of the picture of Dorian Gray for about 12years now.
(35:18):
The music's pretty much all written and my ballet producer, Tatiana, we met recently andwe're like, let's just give it one last push.
And you know, I performed in the Kremlin Palace.
did a duet uh based on Orpheus and Urethes.
And that was, you know, I could take that.
(35:40):
It's kind of like not the crowning moment, but if I had to, I could take that as being asfar as I ever got in, in, uh, in the ballet world.
But if we could do the pitrador in gray, it would just be, you know, just the, it will bethe cherry on top of my career.
mean, I can't, I can't complain.
I've been in some amazing bands.
(36:01):
I've toured the world many, many times, uh, made a great, made
great albums, uh, I've got no complaints.
So that would just be something very, very special for me if we could get that produced,but it's incredibly expensive to do ballet.
You need really, you need a state, uh, ballet company to get behind it.
(36:26):
but that's the, if we get, if I could do that in the next 10 years, uh, I'd die happy.
Yeah
Look, I've got to ask before we get onto the last couple of questions, Roger, mean,writing for ballet is obviously an incredibly specialized task.
And you mentioned with your musical upbringing that, you know, the reading side of things,you obviously picked up some stuff, but it wasn't caught in what you do.
(36:52):
How do you write a ballet?
Um, and like, in a way that makes you happy creatively and, and sort of ticks those boxesfor a ballet to be able to be produced.
Well, so when I first started making music, I had a monophonic synth and also my first twoelectronic albums.
It was all monophonic and all.
(37:14):
So, um, you know, I could only play and I couldn't, um, I couldn't play more than one noteat a time and I couldn't play more than one sound at a time.
So I would have to commit to all of those lines and, uh, it's orchestration.
Really it is.
mean, if you listen to, some of the songs on, songs from the silver box, it's called,yeah.
(37:40):
Um, the orchestration is very intricate.
So instead of, so take out a moog sound and put in a violin, uh, take out another one andput in a cello or put in a French horn.
And you know, it's just a matter of what you've learned over the years.
you what you've listened to and what sounds good together.
(38:03):
And then you just layer it and it, you you start with a simple melody and then you invertit and then you harmonize with it.
And then you end up with all this shit going on and it's that's it.
You know, it's like, and it sounds amazing.
You're like, how did that happen?
I've been re-listening to it lately and I'm like, where did it, where did this all comefrom?
(38:27):
You know,
How did I do this?
Um, and then of course you can give it to an orchestrator, which many of the great, um,Danny Elfman, for example, doesn't do any of his own orchestration.
He just sends it off to a team of people and they cut.
did give one song to the lead cellist of the Bolshoi orchestra who does orchestrations andhe, he did his version of it.
(38:53):
I'm like, that's not really how I hear it.
So I think I'll.
But I work with people, I work with a viola player, who does my scoring that, know, I spitout the scores from logic and then he goes through it and makes it.
I mean, the logic score is pretty good.
Um, but when you, when you've got like 20 instruments or 30 instruments, it gets verycomplex.
(39:18):
So he'll, he'll, you know, straighten everything out for me and make it more readable andtie things where they need tie in all that sort of stuff.
But really, you know, orchestration, it just starts with a melody as well.
Uh, and that's just, you know, and then you add harmonies and, uh, and then countermelodies and I'll send you some of it if you want, if you're interested.
(39:43):
Yeah.
And I'm really, I would love, I would love that.
And are you talking about more of a classical score for the picture of your going gray?
Yeah.
Yeah, it's classic.
It's, um, well, it's orchestral.
And I said to Tatiana the other day, she, and she said, yeah, but it sounds modern.
It's you, you know, it's, it's not classical.
(40:05):
It's orchestral and it's you.
it's orchestral instruments.
Uh, it's not classical.
It's, but I want it to be a classical ballet.
don't, I'm not a big fan of modern dance.
Be on point and, uh, you know,
duets and all that sort of stuff.
know I can see it.
If I could choreograph, I I could, uh, I know how it's supposed to look in my head.
(40:29):
I know how things go.
And that's amazing.
And one last question on that.
Have you to date in your crib had the privilege of standing before a large orchestraplaying your compositions or is that something you've still yet to experience?
Yeah, I've worked with a chamber orchestra in Toronto, a friend of mine, Paul, he's theCorktown Chamber Orchestra.
(40:50):
I wrote a suite for them based on a David Hockney painting.
And we performed that.
played, I played piano with them though.
So I wasn't really standing back, but it's incredible.
You sit there playing and you know every note that everyone's supposed to be playing andyour ears literally move and focus in on the different instruments.
(41:13):
And it can be incredibly frustrating when they get it wrong.
Uh, or they, they were pretty good.
Uh, before we did it with the Coulthard Orchestra, I did it with, uh, an ensemble foryoung musicians in London.
Uh, boy, that was interesting.
uh A lot of, uh, soaring and, uh, I bet it was fun working with kids and trying to, youknow,
(41:41):
because I come from the rock world, you know, not playing on the one and this, there wasthis cello part and this guy was like, I, and I'm like, you just forget the one, just go
and do it.
And he just couldn't do it.
And it was, it was really interesting.
I'm working with, working with, uh, orchestra musicians that only, that can only read thatyou put there, you put an instrument in their hands.
(42:02):
They can't play anything.
Yeah.
And so you put a piece of paper in front of them.
I know a pianist and a company.
And I said, you know, when you just walk up to a piano and sit down and start playing,it's that sort of stream of consciousness.
And she said, I've never experienced that.
(43:17):
Absolutely.
And you mentioned right at the start of the interview, Roger, about when you were ill withthe lymphoma and that you didn't play for a period of time.
Obviously you were feeling unwell, so it wasn't totally front of mind, but how much didyou miss not playing, having to go through months of not playing?
(44:23):
Yeah, makes sense.
um now another emotional conundrum for you, Roger, the desert Island discs question.
So five albums, if you have to choose five, what are they?
(45:37):
Beautiful.
careful.
(46:00):
That's okay, four's fine.
We have a lot of people that do six, so you've evened it out nicely.
That's great.
(46:50):
It is just like...
Yeah.
(47:14):
So he's only on fire.
Yeah.
I've had the chance to him in the last year, Roger.
And absolutely the same experience.
(48:07):
Absolutely.
We're onto our last question, Roger, which we call the quick fire 10.
So just 10 very short and sharp answers to some very simple questions.
So due to some serious crime you've committed, you're sentenced to six months in a tributeband.
What tribute are you choosing?
(48:28):
nice.
Yeah.
Well, might as well go big.
That's great.
Most important pre-gig ritual.
So what do you need to do to feel settled before you play a gig?
Let's use the Cura as the example.
Nice.
If you hadn't been a musician, what do think your career choice would have been?
It makes sense with art school.
(48:49):
This is nearly impossible, but favorite tour you've ever done as a whole entity of as atour.
Even more difficult favourite gig you've ever done.
(49:13):
And this doesn't have to be the cure, be across all of your experiences.
Name a song that you used to love, but you've now played it to death and would happilynever play it again.
There you go.
Yeah, that's right.
Well, it's, sort of a sabbatical album, isn't it?
So yeah.
Yeah.
(49:34):
and, look, as a cover band player that literally does play just like heaven, um, I'mpleased what you said before about just like heaven.
It's so much fun to play.
Um, favorite music documentary or movie.
Are you looking forward to the sequel?
(49:55):
I love it.
Name one thing you'd like to see invented that would make your life as a keyboard playereasier.
Yeah.
Love it.
and last but not least your favorite non-musical activity or hobby.
keeps you sane outside of music?
Oh, Wonderful.
Um, looking, think helicopter, you've taken a helicopter view to music over the years.
(50:20):
mean, your, your output is amazing.
Your creativity and emotion with your music is amazing.
It's been an absolute, I mean, you mentioned before about not saying, don't be silly.
I'm sure you feel.
That way, when I say you're an inspiration to a lot of people, including myself, andcannot thank you enough for taking the time.
(50:52):
That's the way we like it.
uh
And there we have it.
I hope you enjoyed both parts of that interview with Roger O'Donnell.
It was an utter privilege to speak with him, as I mentioned.
You're welcome to turn off now before I go all fanboy in regards to the cure and so on.
(51:16):
But even before I start that, Roger's solo output is utterly amazing.
um Now I may tend to say that about most guests because we're incredibly choosy with ourguests, but getting to listen to Roger's back catalog and the new album.
There is such beauty, emotion, continuity over the three synth albums and then theseamazing orchestrally driven albums as well.
(51:40):
I just cannot recommend highly enough checking it out.
is well and truly worth it.
Now, as far as The Cure, I'm one of those people that The Cure somewhat changed my life asa teenager.
mean, The Head on the Door was a seminal album.
It'd probably be in my Desert Island discs if I ever get the chance to choose them oneday.
Um, but obviously the albums disintegration, old mood swings, blood flowers.
(52:03):
They are all incredible albums that I love to bits as well.
So it was just an absolute, you know, iconic moment getting to speak with Roger and, he'sproven what an amazing musician he has throughout his career.
So yeah, do hope you enjoy that.
Um, thank you for listening a huge shout out to our Goal and Silver supporters.
So the amazing Gary Evans from the Sunnylander Wales.
(52:25):
Thank you, sir, as always.
The lovely Tammy Katcher from Tammy's musical stew cannot thank you enough Tammy for yourongoing and long-term support.
The brilliant Mike Wilcox from Midnight Mastering, if you are creating your own work andwhat a great job on mixing and mastering.
is the go-to guy.
And last but definitely not least the musicplayer.com forums.
(52:47):
We love hanging out there.
We love talking keyboards and everything related to it.
We've recently had a, been having a brilliant chat about AI music and so on.
There's quite a lengthy thread there.
recommend checking out, do go to musicplayer.com and check out the keyboard corner forgreat discussions like that.
Once again, thank you for listening.
Thank you for listening to both those parts.
(53:09):
And as always, we'll be back in a week or two and until then keep on playing.
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