December 15, 2025 • 22 mins
In this episode, Jane is joined by Daniel Hakim, founder and CEO of the Club of United Business (CUB). Daniel has built a thriving community for business owners who want to grow, connect, and enjoy networking.
They’re focusing on Little Locker, an ethically made kids’ clothing brand founded by Emily. Jane and Daniel break down Little Locker’s product range, website, and positioning in the kids’ clothing market, highlighting what really matters in brand messaging and how to connect with customers in a crowded space.
By the end of the episode, you’ll learn:
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How to pinpoint the key messaging your customers actually care about.
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Why ethics alone aren’t enough and how to combine them with design, style, and premium positioning.
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How to diversify your product range while maintaining a strong brand identity.
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Practical strategies to test, refine, and market products effectively.
If you’re building a brand, trying to stand out in a niche market, or want actionable tips for creating messaging that resonates and drives results, this episode is packed with insights.
Connect with us:Follow The Lazy CEO podcast: @thelazyceo_podcast @thelazyceopodStay updated with Jane Lu: @thelazyceoConnect with Daniel Hakim: @the.danielhakim
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to the Lazy Ceo Podcast. I'm Jane Lou. I
escaped the corporate grind in twenty four and started my
own business, Choupo, a global nine figures online fashion brand,
and now I want to share my learnings here with
you every Tuesday, so join my conversations with the entrepreneurs
behind the iconic brands we all know and love. In
between interview weeks, you'll find me talking about hot topics
(00:29):
that fascinates me in the world of business and personal development,
alternating with Help my Small Business episodes, where I deep
dive into a small business every month.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
To help them grow.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
And why the Lazy Ceo You ask, Well, give a
lazy person a problem, they'll find the simplest way to
solve it. Hey, pottyfam, welcome back to help my small business. Today,
I'm chatting with Daniel hookim, founder and CEO of Club
with the United Business or CUB. Daniel has bell a
thriving community for business owners who want to grow, connect
(01:00):
and enjoy networking, helping entrepreneurs navigate the challenges of running
a business while building meaningful relationships along the way. So
today we're turning our focus to a little locker an
ethically made kids clothing brand found by Emily. In this episode,
we'll break down her product range, her website, and her
positioning in a kid's clothing space. So for everyone's listening,
are we need to play along at home? Grab your phone,
(01:22):
grab your laptop, head on to her website and socials,
and join us on the fund. By the end of
this episode, you'll learn how to define a clear advantage
in a crowded market and create a winnable status for
your brand, why messaging around ethics isn't always enough, and
how to combine it with design, styble and premium positioning.
How to diversify your product range while maintaining a strong
(01:45):
brand identity, and practical tips to test, refine, and market
products effectively. If you're building a brand, trying to stand
out in a niche market, or just want actionable tips
to create a premium product that sells. This episode is
packed with insight, so let's get into it.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Help.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I need business advice. Please get down the business business,
shall we Well?
Speaker 4 (02:06):
I need your advice on official business now hijaying.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
My name is Emily. I'm the founder of Little Locker,
a children's wear brand. It creates small considered collections designed
to honor the magic of childhood. All of our pieces
are ethically made in Bali and Indonesia, using high quality fabrics,
and I'm really really proud of our slow, not fast
fashioned focus. My first question is some days I feel
discouraged because I feel like the children's clothing set feels
(02:34):
like such an oversaturated market. My products are ethically made,
high quality, and I love my supplier, but my prices
cannot go any lower because of the true cost of manufacturing.
How do you suggest that I keep my mindset strong
and avoid comparing myself to cheaper, more mass produced brands.
My second question is, I know my ideal customer is
(02:55):
out there, there's someone who values sustainability, ethical manufacturing, and
high quality.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
What would be your advice.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
On where I should be focusing my time, energy and
resources so that I can really connect with that audience
and grow instead of spreading myself too thin. Thank you
so much, I look forward to any advice you might have.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Hello Emily, So, Emily basically came to one of the
conferences that I spoke at. We all got really excited
for the video that you made, and it's kind of
now led to your feature and helped my small business.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
So welcome.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
So I've got Dannie with me today and we're going
to look at how she can tackle comparing her products
to cheap and more mass produced companies because her price
point cannot go any lower. Also, where should she be
spending her time and energy and resources so that she
can connect with her ideal customer. We always start with
the good. So the website looks great. I think the
(03:49):
eCOM photos look really good and I think they really
do sell the dream, and I think that is really important.
I think also you speak very well on content, which
I think, really you know, these days, is growingly more
and more important.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
What I love about this company is that is the
space that's playing in. Like I think children's and kids
and babies clothes is if I was to get into
business outside of members clubs or outside of business communities,
I probably get now into any children's products.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
I know.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
But you're also I think anyone with a new kid
gets into that space. I agree, and I'm like, when
I have a baby, I'm like, I want to set
a baby brand.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Also, because because everything's so expensive, you spend so much.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Money, You're like, actually, why is the solution for there's
not easy to find.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Yeah, exactly so, and I'm I have a like eleven
month old son, so so I got it. Like I've
seen particularly my wife goes through clothes. Yeah, my wife
goes through the decision making process of buying, of buying things.
I think you're in a great space. Your products look
great as well, and there's something that's visually like I
(05:00):
can catch you, particularly with the stripes and things like that,
which which I think is great for a brand. Should
I get into what my thoughts are on how she
can improve.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah, let's get straight into it.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
First of all, your messaging is based on like ethically
sustainably created clothes, and to be honest, that's just very
bad messaging because no one's purchasing because something's ethically created,
particularly like it's the sounds slack, but it's true. No
one's actually like, oh, because that's ethically made, I'm going
to buy it. They're thinking I'm going to buy it
(05:32):
because it's cheap. So it's either cost so they're buying.
Is a cost they're buying.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Because brand or design, but.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Also with kids, A big one which is what I
think she should foun on, is health and safety so
many kids clothes have like the flame retarded and it's
their carcinogenic. And there's a lot of chemicals in clothes,
particularly cheap kids clothes, so health design brand things like this,
but they're not buying. But they're not buying because it's
(05:59):
ethic that I just thinking.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yes, Glad you said, it's like it's a.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Bonus to buying. So I think there's a.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Lot of people who I think the ethically made is
a go no go decision. But I think what's going
to lead any decision is so it's like there's a
segment of the customers.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
But I think that's what she's saying. She's trying to.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Find that segment of customers. But basically, okay, think about
how do I just describe a ven diagram on the
podcast without boring everyone to death. Basically, you've got a
segment of the market that wants ethically sourced stuff, and
it's like a go no go decision of whether it
is or not.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
And then there's people who like your designs.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
And because I think the thing is your design is
still somewhat niche to have that overlap of one segment
with the other segment, it's quite a small segment.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
So basically she has no market, is what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
It's a small market that's hard to find with a
small budget. You know, I think ultimately people still it
still needs to be designed led and then the ethically
source can just get someone over the line.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
It's a bonus. It's like, join cub and ten percent
of we don't actually do this, but and ten percent
of your membership fee goes towards starving children. You know.
It's like, I'm not buying the membership because they're helping
starving children. I'm buying the membership because i want to
meet other successful business owners and grow my network. But
oh I feel better buying it because I'm also supporting
starving children. Cub doesn't actually do that, but it would work.
(07:24):
That's an example of it working. I think her angle,
like her big issue based on her questions, is I
can't compete in price. And of course you can't compete
in price because the economies of scale are in favor
of the big brands who have far better systems and
a far bigger purchasing power. So you need to stop
going down in price and you need to skyrocket your price.
(07:45):
Your price should be going up, not down. Trust me,
it should be going up and a great way to
push your price up. Now, you can't really sell that
you're a luxury brand. You can say that we're luxury
products or that we're premium products. That you can do that,
But luxury brands have been around a long time and
that's what creates them luxury, you know. But I really
(08:06):
believe a great angle and it's huge at the moment
is and you can do it is just marketing yourself
as a non toxin, non chemical, safe for children clothing brand,
and then a lot of your marketing should be all
about how so many of the other brands, particularly the
mass produced brands, have products and chemicals in them that
(08:28):
are so bad for your kids, so bad for their skin,
bad for allergies, carcinogenic, and there's so much research out there.
I know so much about it because I've read all
about it, but there's so much research for you out there.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Definitely, the brand has that Baron bay vibe.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
It's got the design, it's got great design, and all
she has to do to do that. And I'm not
saying to definitely do it. I'm just if it were me,
what I would do is because you literally doesn't have
to change anything other than making sure she doesn't use
chemicals that are bad. She could make that the focus,
and then when it comes to your kids safe health
and safety, all of a sudden, you're not purchasing based
(09:02):
on price. You're purchasing based on safety of your children,
and you're willing to spend more doing that, which prevents
her from keep competing with the mass produced, very efficient
brands on price. She can then push your price up.
She's got really clever designs and all her marketing is
about educating people on how to keep your kids safe
(09:22):
from chemicals that are in clothes.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
So that is your angle for how she can connect
with her ideal customer. So Daniel's coming in with the
approach from a new dad's perspective. I'm just going to
go at it from the fashion angle. I think there's
a lot of pentaphores and I don't know, maybe it's
like maybe I'm not like, maybe I haven't discovered the
true art of why Pinafores are great for kids, because
(09:45):
for me personally, I think there are a lot of
effort to take on and off, like you know, like
a onesie, you know, even as an adult, you're like,
oh my god, when I wear onesie and have to
go to toilet in public, am I got to take
the whole thing off?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
And then I've got mine.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
I'm like sitting on the toilet like topless, and if
it goes down on the ground, if the arms touch.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
The ground, it's gonna get dirty.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
But like little kids, it's like with a Pina four,
it's a lot of effort to go on and off
compared to just like a pans or address or whatever.
And then if you're gonna change then nappy in public,
you're gonna take the whole thing off. Whole thing on off.
They're potty trains.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
It dangles on the floor.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
I mean, I just think it's like a very like
for us, even that chow Pro like jumpsuits, is a
small part of our category mix having that to be
the lead, and I like that it's a unique product
that you want to stand out. But I'm just not
sure again, like how big the market is, sorry to
be honest.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
And then also when you actually go onto the.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Website, you've got your homepage banner which has a Pina
four in it, and you go down and it has
a few products and it's just more pinafores and they're
just different colors. I think for us, if you go
to chow Pro, you're gonna have like homepage like you're
gonna have some product.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
You're gonna have a big product to sell, the big
campaign image to sell the dream.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
And I'm gonna have some products and they're all gonna be different,
a mix of shapes, silhouettes, fabrics, which I know you
don't have the luxury of that much difference, but I
would have a pena foward to lead product and that's
what's unique about your brand. And then I would have
one of your T shirt and short sets, and then
I would have then a jumper like show diversity Show.
You know, it's like a preview of what's in your website.
(11:15):
Otherwise it looks like that's all you may.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Yeah, that's a very good point.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
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Speaker 1 (11:21):
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your way. And then I could be wrong, but like
(12:04):
I think we probably have actually very similar minimum units
based on like minimum units in Bali and in China,
Like it's quite similar. And that's all based on fabric
because they cut a certain amount of fabric and then
they you know, that's what you make it with. Now
you've got probably like the same design and four three
or four different colors and prints. So it's like, that's
(12:26):
why are you going so heavy on that one design?
Speaker 2 (12:29):
You know?
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I think when you're stargning a business, you should design
wider to see what people really like. And then that
way you have you're able to learn about what your
customers want. Because you know, I see that now you've
gone into heavy discounting from seventy dollars to you know,
twenty eighty five, Yeah, twenty eight dollars forty two dollars,
like you have to heavily discount things. It's a test
(12:51):
and repeat process. I think that's what any business is,
especially in fashion, where you can learn more and more
about what your customers want. Go wider in terms of
like what your the different shapes and the different categories
you're selling, like just so you can learn more about
what your customers want. But you can still have like
one brand, one style, one customer in mind, so that
it's like cohesive. But I think ultimately there's a fashion
(13:13):
brand you need to be brand led, and I'm just
not sure if the designs are strong enough for someone
to necessarily pay a premium. I just think about, like,
for what when I buy things at that price point,
for as a mum, it'll be three things.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
It's like for a.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Special occasion, so like say Rasy's birthday, I'll buy a
big puffy like pink dress with a bow with lace,
with puppy sleeves, and it's just got all the trimps.
So that's one thing. And so broadly speaking, dresses as
a category is the best place you'll find margin, like
for the amount of fabric and the what people are
willing to pay for it. It's like universally just like highest
(13:50):
margin you can find, which is a category you're currently
not selling it. And then branded stuff. Now I don't
really buy into branded, but I feel like that's what
people will buy into. So for you, it's like it's
whether you want to go deep with your marketing, and
that is, if you want to go deep with the
you know, the non toxin I still ethicity source like that,
that's if you want to focus on the branding element.
(14:11):
But I also do think it actually takes quite a
lot of marketing spend to actually get people to pay
for that brand premium. And then the next thing is
the design. Now, the difficulty is that you need the
design to be on trend so there's a reason to
buy that's not already in the market. And then it
also needs to be commercial enough so you can sell
(14:32):
big enough units, which I think that's where any fashion
business is kind of like, but.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
All this advice is all from running a huge fashion empire,
Like you know, I don't know things like that dresses
have the highest margin of profit and in a company
like this where margins are an issue because she's being
squeezed down in price because she's comparing herself to the
other big brands. Entering dresses is a great piece of
(14:58):
advice for that because to aeras and get more margin.
I guess my point on a broader because you know,
I don't run an e commerce business nor a fashion business.
But but my point is when you create your business strategy,
you need to have an advantage over others, and currently
you don't have any advantage over other kids clothing brands,
(15:19):
like why buy Little Loco as opposed to someone else?
There's no advantage and that's why you're having the problem.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yea, because I think it's quite a lot of brands
similar to this, like this with a few like lots
of people stay businesses and they have a few designs.
They generally are I think ethically sourced as well, because
it's foremo smaller.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Which is great. But and it doesn't have to be
the toxic angle that was just me giving an example.
But you need an angle that prevents you from needing
to compete in purely on price, because right now you're
just competing as any of the others. There's why, because
it's ethnically it's ethically sourced. If ethically sourced was a
good enough angle, then you wouldn't have to compete on price,
(15:59):
but it's not. That's why you are competing. And so
you know, I sat there and I thought, like, if
I'm going to buy I'm going to buy like kids clothes,
it's going to be based on price on health. So
that's like what the material like, is it synthetic material?
Is a cotton wool because natural materials are also healthier. Status,
which is like I'd go to buy my kids something
like Louis Vuitton jacket or some shit like that, or style,
(16:22):
like is someone a fantastic designer and their designs are incredible,
and like I want that. So if I was to
choose the easiest one of those to hit on, the
health one is the easiest, so long as you can
actually do it, because I don't know if you're a designer.
You might be, but I don't know. If you are,
you're not going to be Louis Vuitton or another major
brand and you can't compete on price, so you could
(16:43):
commit a style you can't compete on price or status.
Status is a hard one, so you've got and health.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
I agree with the non tops and thing, but I
think it's also still hard because you're like say, if
you're not because you either have people like me that
don't know about like don't know that's a thing, then
it's not going to convince someone like me. And if
that's you, but then you're I think, unless you're going
to go like heavy on SEO and be like I
want to make sure I'm ranked number one. There's not
enough products for like it's someone it's Daniel going to
(17:12):
come and be like this this whole range.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
There is a huge market of mums who are terrified
of toxins for their kids, especially since COVID. It is giant.
It is a huge market. All young mums are all
and even like on all topics of health, a lot
of young mums are concerned right now. It is a
giant market, and those mums are willing to pay more.
(17:36):
It's the type of mum that wouldn't use a plastic
chopping board, or wouldn't use nonstick pants, or it is
a giant or wouldn't use synthetic material on clothes, and
it's a giant market, and she could couple. I just
think it's an easy one that you can win.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Actually, it's interesting to say this because I also saw
her a recent TikTok post. Her pinpost is that she's
removing all children's faces from content, which I think is
great that she's making a stands because I'm more often like,
oh my god, I don't I'm like, I should stop
posting my kids, but then they do something really cute.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Like oh just this one.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
But I'm really like, I should really stop before they
go into like school school anyway. So I love that
she's made the stands, but I think that definitely makes
it so much harder for her to be selling children's
product without faces.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
And the content because.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
You know, why actually make that stands because a lot
of people don't want to show their children's faces on
social media, and she's like, if I want that for
my children, then I shouldn't be showing that from other people,
from like models. But I think you need to decide
if that's the battle you want to go down, because
that's a mistake, because yeah, I think it's like, if
you have a children's brand and people do I think
(18:45):
what what you want to do as a mother, you
don't have to really like put that onto like you
know people who do have.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
You're made the decisions.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
You need to make that decision and people you know
and you're trying to run this business.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I think that will make your life really hard for you.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
But if if you do want to go down that path,
then you have to make that your story.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
You know, that's how you start.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
A debate, and that mom probably will be very synergetic,
like it's gonna have the segments will cross over with
the mom who is worried about the toxins. Right, So
you then have to make yourself even more the face
of the brand and just really go deep on my
like what your brand say as well what I was saying, like,
even if you go down the full non toxin path,
(19:28):
unless you'd go hard on SEO and you come up
and search. Even if so Daniel is worried about toxins,
how will he remembered to come to your brand? Because
you've got like eight products right for example, I'm sorry
if that's wrong, like eight to ten, twelve products.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
There's a bunch of other.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Brands out there that also has non toxin brands and
they have a few products.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Like how is he going to come to you?
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Like how you can be front in mind for him
for his next purchasing decision. So then you've got to
really build yourself a brand, and that is like around
non toxin no faces, like this is the really brand
yourself as that.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
I think your point there was like, if you're going
to do the no faces, don't half do it, double
down on it. Look, I think it's a mistake because
when you purchase, you're purchasing a piece of clothes because
the kid looks cute in the clothes. If I can't
see the kid, I'm a lot less attached to the clothes.
But when I can see it, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Actually, the thing I did start the very thing I
said was great. It was like the pigs look great
and they sell the dreams.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
So and I know we've spoken all about non dogs,
and that's not what the message I'm trying to relay
is that. The message I'm trying to relay is you
need to create a business strategy that gives you a
chance of success and that doesn't make you compete directly
on price, because you will never win that. So you
need to sit down and figure out what is the
strategy that that will remove me from the race of
(20:48):
racing to the bottom end price, and that that could
be style. It doesn't have to be non toxic It
could be It could be style. It could be your
designs are so just incredible that people love your brand
for that. It could be status. You could make your
price really high and you know it's a status symbol.
You're an amazing logo, and someone knows, oh wow, they're
wearing a little locker. I wouldn't do that because your
brand little Locker doesn't relay status. But I do love
(21:11):
the name. But my point is you can't, like you
need to create a good strategy, for a winnable strategy
for your business. It can't compete in the same way
everyone else does because it will likely lose because they
have more of everything. They've got more resource to win.
So fight differently, don't fight the same I love that.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
I think we need to end on that because that
was beautiful cool. Thank you, Daniel, all the best, Emily.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
You have an amazing business.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Wait wait, wait before you go.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
If you enjoyed this episode and you want to be
featured on help my small business and get me to
deep dive on your business, well send you submission to
Hello at the lazyceo dot com. More details in the
show notes. All right, catch you guys next Tuesday.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Okay, that's it from me for now. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
If you're loving the podcast, don't forget to follow. Hello
and I would love it if you can do me
a favor and leave us a review, and if you
or more joined the conversation on a podcast Instagram at
the Lazy CEO on the Score podcast, all linked in
the show notes.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Catch you next Tuesday.
Welcome to the Lazy Ceo Podcast. I'm Jane Lou. I
escaped the corporate grind in twenty four and started my
own business, Choupo, a global nine figures online fashion brand,
and now I want to share my learnings here with
you every Tuesday, so join my conversations with the entrepreneurs
behind the iconic brands we all know and love. In
between interview weeks, you'll find me talking about hot topics
(00:29):
that fascinates me in the world of business and personal development,
alternating with Help my Small Business episodes, where I deep
dive into a small business every month.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
To help them grow.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
And why the Lazy Ceo You ask, Well, give a
lazy person a problem, they'll find the simplest way to
solve it. Hey, pottyfam, welcome back to help my small business. Today,
I'm chatting with Daniel hookim, founder and CEO of Club
with the United Business or CUB. Daniel has bell a
thriving community for business owners who want to grow, connect
(01:00):
and enjoy networking, helping entrepreneurs navigate the challenges of running
a business while building meaningful relationships along the way. So
today we're turning our focus to a little locker an
ethically made kids clothing brand found by Emily. In this episode,
we'll break down her product range, her website, and her
positioning in a kid's clothing space. So for everyone's listening,
are we need to play along at home? Grab your phone,
(01:22):
grab your laptop, head on to her website and socials,
and join us on the fund. By the end of
this episode, you'll learn how to define a clear advantage
in a crowded market and create a winnable status for
your brand, why messaging around ethics isn't always enough, and
how to combine it with design, styble and premium positioning.
How to diversify your product range while maintaining a strong
(01:45):
brand identity, and practical tips to test, refine, and market
products effectively. If you're building a brand, trying to stand
out in a niche market, or just want actionable tips
to create a premium product that sells. This episode is
packed with insight, so let's get into it.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Help.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I need business advice. Please get down the business business,
shall we Well?
Speaker 4 (02:06):
I need your advice on official business now hijaying.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
My name is Emily. I'm the founder of Little Locker,
a children's wear brand. It creates small considered collections designed
to honor the magic of childhood. All of our pieces
are ethically made in Bali and Indonesia, using high quality fabrics,
and I'm really really proud of our slow, not fast
fashioned focus. My first question is some days I feel
discouraged because I feel like the children's clothing set feels
(02:34):
like such an oversaturated market. My products are ethically made,
high quality, and I love my supplier, but my prices
cannot go any lower because of the true cost of manufacturing.
How do you suggest that I keep my mindset strong
and avoid comparing myself to cheaper, more mass produced brands.
My second question is, I know my ideal customer is
(02:55):
out there, there's someone who values sustainability, ethical manufacturing, and
high quality.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
What would be your advice.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
On where I should be focusing my time, energy and
resources so that I can really connect with that audience
and grow instead of spreading myself too thin. Thank you
so much, I look forward to any advice you might have.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Hello Emily, So, Emily basically came to one of the
conferences that I spoke at. We all got really excited
for the video that you made, and it's kind of
now led to your feature and helped my small business.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
So welcome.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
So I've got Dannie with me today and we're going
to look at how she can tackle comparing her products
to cheap and more mass produced companies because her price
point cannot go any lower. Also, where should she be
spending her time and energy and resources so that she
can connect with her ideal customer. We always start with
the good. So the website looks great. I think the
(03:49):
eCOM photos look really good and I think they really
do sell the dream, and I think that is really important.
I think also you speak very well on content, which
I think, really you know, these days, is growingly more
and more important.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
What I love about this company is that is the
space that's playing in. Like I think children's and kids
and babies clothes is if I was to get into
business outside of members clubs or outside of business communities,
I probably get now into any children's products.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
I know.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
But you're also I think anyone with a new kid
gets into that space. I agree, and I'm like, when
I have a baby, I'm like, I want to set
a baby brand.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Also, because because everything's so expensive, you spend so much.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Money, You're like, actually, why is the solution for there's
not easy to find.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Yeah, exactly so, and I'm I have a like eleven
month old son, so so I got it. Like I've
seen particularly my wife goes through clothes. Yeah, my wife
goes through the decision making process of buying, of buying things.
I think you're in a great space. Your products look
great as well, and there's something that's visually like I
(05:00):
can catch you, particularly with the stripes and things like that,
which which I think is great for a brand. Should
I get into what my thoughts are on how she
can improve.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah, let's get straight into it.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
First of all, your messaging is based on like ethically
sustainably created clothes, and to be honest, that's just very
bad messaging because no one's purchasing because something's ethically created,
particularly like it's the sounds slack, but it's true. No
one's actually like, oh, because that's ethically made, I'm going
to buy it. They're thinking I'm going to buy it
(05:32):
because it's cheap. So it's either cost so they're buying.
Is a cost they're buying.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Because brand or design, but.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Also with kids, A big one which is what I
think she should foun on, is health and safety so
many kids clothes have like the flame retarded and it's
their carcinogenic. And there's a lot of chemicals in clothes,
particularly cheap kids clothes, so health design brand things like this,
but they're not buying. But they're not buying because it's
(05:59):
ethic that I just thinking.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yes, Glad you said, it's like it's a.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Bonus to buying. So I think there's a.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Lot of people who I think the ethically made is
a go no go decision. But I think what's going
to lead any decision is so it's like there's a
segment of the customers.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
But I think that's what she's saying. She's trying to.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Find that segment of customers. But basically, okay, think about
how do I just describe a ven diagram on the
podcast without boring everyone to death. Basically, you've got a
segment of the market that wants ethically sourced stuff, and
it's like a go no go decision of whether it
is or not.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
And then there's people who like your designs.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
And because I think the thing is your design is
still somewhat niche to have that overlap of one segment
with the other segment, it's quite a small segment.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
So basically she has no market, is what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
It's a small market that's hard to find with a
small budget. You know, I think ultimately people still it
still needs to be designed led and then the ethically
source can just get someone over the line.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
It's a bonus. It's like, join cub and ten percent
of we don't actually do this, but and ten percent
of your membership fee goes towards starving children. You know.
It's like, I'm not buying the membership because they're helping
starving children. I'm buying the membership because i want to
meet other successful business owners and grow my network. But
oh I feel better buying it because I'm also supporting
starving children. Cub doesn't actually do that, but it would work.
(07:24):
That's an example of it working. I think her angle,
like her big issue based on her questions, is I
can't compete in price. And of course you can't compete
in price because the economies of scale are in favor
of the big brands who have far better systems and
a far bigger purchasing power. So you need to stop
going down in price and you need to skyrocket your price.
(07:45):
Your price should be going up, not down. Trust me,
it should be going up and a great way to
push your price up. Now, you can't really sell that
you're a luxury brand. You can say that we're luxury
products or that we're premium products. That you can do that,
But luxury brands have been around a long time and
that's what creates them luxury, you know. But I really
(08:06):
believe a great angle and it's huge at the moment
is and you can do it is just marketing yourself
as a non toxin, non chemical, safe for children clothing brand,
and then a lot of your marketing should be all
about how so many of the other brands, particularly the
mass produced brands, have products and chemicals in them that
(08:28):
are so bad for your kids, so bad for their skin,
bad for allergies, carcinogenic, and there's so much research out there.
I know so much about it because I've read all
about it, but there's so much research for you out there.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Definitely, the brand has that Baron bay vibe.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
It's got the design, it's got great design, and all
she has to do to do that. And I'm not
saying to definitely do it. I'm just if it were me,
what I would do is because you literally doesn't have
to change anything other than making sure she doesn't use
chemicals that are bad. She could make that the focus,
and then when it comes to your kids safe health
and safety, all of a sudden, you're not purchasing based
(09:02):
on price. You're purchasing based on safety of your children,
and you're willing to spend more doing that, which prevents
her from keep competing with the mass produced, very efficient
brands on price. She can then push your price up.
She's got really clever designs and all her marketing is
about educating people on how to keep your kids safe
(09:22):
from chemicals that are in clothes.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
So that is your angle for how she can connect
with her ideal customer. So Daniel's coming in with the
approach from a new dad's perspective. I'm just going to
go at it from the fashion angle. I think there's
a lot of pentaphores and I don't know, maybe it's
like maybe I'm not like, maybe I haven't discovered the
true art of why Pinafores are great for kids, because
(09:45):
for me personally, I think there are a lot of
effort to take on and off, like you know, like
a onesie, you know, even as an adult, you're like,
oh my god, when I wear onesie and have to
go to toilet in public, am I got to take
the whole thing off?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
And then I've got mine.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
I'm like sitting on the toilet like topless, and if
it goes down on the ground, if the arms touch.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
The ground, it's gonna get dirty.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
But like little kids, it's like with a Pina four,
it's a lot of effort to go on and off
compared to just like a pans or address or whatever.
And then if you're gonna change then nappy in public,
you're gonna take the whole thing off. Whole thing on off.
They're potty trains.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
It dangles on the floor.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
I mean, I just think it's like a very like
for us, even that chow Pro like jumpsuits, is a
small part of our category mix having that to be
the lead, and I like that it's a unique product
that you want to stand out. But I'm just not
sure again, like how big the market is, sorry to
be honest.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
And then also when you actually go onto the.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Website, you've got your homepage banner which has a Pina
four in it, and you go down and it has
a few products and it's just more pinafores and they're
just different colors. I think for us, if you go
to chow Pro, you're gonna have like homepage like you're
gonna have some product.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
You're gonna have a big product to sell, the big
campaign image to sell the dream.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
And I'm gonna have some products and they're all gonna be different,
a mix of shapes, silhouettes, fabrics, which I know you
don't have the luxury of that much difference, but I
would have a pena foward to lead product and that's
what's unique about your brand. And then I would have
one of your T shirt and short sets, and then
I would have then a jumper like show diversity Show.
You know, it's like a preview of what's in your website.
(11:15):
Otherwise it looks like that's all you may.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Yeah, that's a very good point.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
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Speaker 1 (11:21):
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building your own online business, the Lazy CEO Business Course
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You can go at your own pace, read visit lessons
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(11:42):
stuck wondering where to start or what to do next,
this course gives you the step by step guide to
finally make it happen. And because you're part of the pottyfam,
grab twenty percent off with the Code Podcast twenty head
to the lazyco dot com and start building your business
your way. And then I could be wrong, but like
(12:04):
I think we probably have actually very similar minimum units
based on like minimum units in Bali and in China,
Like it's quite similar. And that's all based on fabric
because they cut a certain amount of fabric and then
they you know, that's what you make it with. Now
you've got probably like the same design and four three
or four different colors and prints. So it's like, that's
(12:26):
why are you going so heavy on that one design?
Speaker 2 (12:29):
You know?
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I think when you're stargning a business, you should design
wider to see what people really like. And then that
way you have you're able to learn about what your
customers want. Because you know, I see that now you've
gone into heavy discounting from seventy dollars to you know,
twenty eighty five, Yeah, twenty eight dollars forty two dollars,
like you have to heavily discount things. It's a test
(12:51):
and repeat process. I think that's what any business is,
especially in fashion, where you can learn more and more
about what your customers want. Go wider in terms of
like what your the different shapes and the different categories
you're selling, like just so you can learn more about
what your customers want. But you can still have like
one brand, one style, one customer in mind, so that
it's like cohesive. But I think ultimately there's a fashion
(13:13):
brand you need to be brand led, and I'm just
not sure if the designs are strong enough for someone
to necessarily pay a premium. I just think about, like,
for what when I buy things at that price point,
for as a mum, it'll be three things.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
It's like for a.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Special occasion, so like say Rasy's birthday, I'll buy a
big puffy like pink dress with a bow with lace,
with puppy sleeves, and it's just got all the trimps.
So that's one thing. And so broadly speaking, dresses as
a category is the best place you'll find margin, like
for the amount of fabric and the what people are
willing to pay for it. It's like universally just like highest
(13:50):
margin you can find, which is a category you're currently
not selling it. And then branded stuff. Now I don't
really buy into branded, but I feel like that's what
people will buy into. So for you, it's like it's
whether you want to go deep with your marketing, and
that is, if you want to go deep with the
you know, the non toxin I still ethicity source like that,
that's if you want to focus on the branding element.
(14:11):
But I also do think it actually takes quite a
lot of marketing spend to actually get people to pay
for that brand premium. And then the next thing is
the design. Now, the difficulty is that you need the
design to be on trend so there's a reason to
buy that's not already in the market. And then it
also needs to be commercial enough so you can sell
(14:32):
big enough units, which I think that's where any fashion
business is kind of like, but.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
All this advice is all from running a huge fashion empire,
Like you know, I don't know things like that dresses
have the highest margin of profit and in a company
like this where margins are an issue because she's being
squeezed down in price because she's comparing herself to the
other big brands. Entering dresses is a great piece of
(14:58):
advice for that because to aeras and get more margin.
I guess my point on a broader because you know,
I don't run an e commerce business nor a fashion business.
But but my point is when you create your business strategy,
you need to have an advantage over others, and currently
you don't have any advantage over other kids clothing brands,
(15:19):
like why buy Little Loco as opposed to someone else?
There's no advantage and that's why you're having the problem.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yea, because I think it's quite a lot of brands
similar to this, like this with a few like lots
of people stay businesses and they have a few designs.
They generally are I think ethically sourced as well, because
it's foremo smaller.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Which is great. But and it doesn't have to be
the toxic angle that was just me giving an example.
But you need an angle that prevents you from needing
to compete in purely on price, because right now you're
just competing as any of the others. There's why, because
it's ethnically it's ethically sourced. If ethically sourced was a
good enough angle, then you wouldn't have to compete on price,
(15:59):
but it's not. That's why you are competing. And so
you know, I sat there and I thought, like, if
I'm going to buy I'm going to buy like kids clothes,
it's going to be based on price on health. So
that's like what the material like, is it synthetic material?
Is a cotton wool because natural materials are also healthier. Status,
which is like I'd go to buy my kids something
like Louis Vuitton jacket or some shit like that, or style,
(16:22):
like is someone a fantastic designer and their designs are incredible,
and like I want that. So if I was to
choose the easiest one of those to hit on, the
health one is the easiest, so long as you can
actually do it, because I don't know if you're a designer.
You might be, but I don't know. If you are,
you're not going to be Louis Vuitton or another major
brand and you can't compete on price, so you could
(16:43):
commit a style you can't compete on price or status.
Status is a hard one, so you've got and health.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
I agree with the non tops and thing, but I
think it's also still hard because you're like say, if
you're not because you either have people like me that
don't know about like don't know that's a thing, then
it's not going to convince someone like me. And if
that's you, but then you're I think, unless you're going
to go like heavy on SEO and be like I
want to make sure I'm ranked number one. There's not
enough products for like it's someone it's Daniel going to
(17:12):
come and be like this this whole range.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
There is a huge market of mums who are terrified
of toxins for their kids, especially since COVID. It is giant.
It is a huge market. All young mums are all
and even like on all topics of health, a lot
of young mums are concerned right now. It is a
giant market, and those mums are willing to pay more.
(17:36):
It's the type of mum that wouldn't use a plastic
chopping board, or wouldn't use nonstick pants, or it is
a giant or wouldn't use synthetic material on clothes, and
it's a giant market, and she could couple. I just
think it's an easy one that you can win.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Actually, it's interesting to say this because I also saw
her a recent TikTok post. Her pinpost is that she's
removing all children's faces from content, which I think is
great that she's making a stands because I'm more often like,
oh my god, I don't I'm like, I should stop
posting my kids, but then they do something really cute.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Like oh just this one.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
But I'm really like, I should really stop before they
go into like school school anyway. So I love that
she's made the stands, but I think that definitely makes
it so much harder for her to be selling children's
product without faces.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
And the content because.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
You know, why actually make that stands because a lot
of people don't want to show their children's faces on
social media, and she's like, if I want that for
my children, then I shouldn't be showing that from other people,
from like models. But I think you need to decide
if that's the battle you want to go down, because
that's a mistake, because yeah, I think it's like, if
you have a children's brand and people do I think
(18:45):
what what you want to do as a mother, you
don't have to really like put that onto like you
know people who do have.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
You're made the decisions.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
You need to make that decision and people you know
and you're trying to run this business.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I think that will make your life really hard for you.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
But if if you do want to go down that path,
then you have to make that your story.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
You know, that's how you start.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
A debate, and that mom probably will be very synergetic,
like it's gonna have the segments will cross over with
the mom who is worried about the toxins. Right, So
you then have to make yourself even more the face
of the brand and just really go deep on my
like what your brand say as well what I was saying, like,
even if you go down the full non toxin path,
(19:28):
unless you'd go hard on SEO and you come up
and search. Even if so Daniel is worried about toxins,
how will he remembered to come to your brand? Because
you've got like eight products right for example, I'm sorry
if that's wrong, like eight to ten, twelve products.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
There's a bunch of other.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Brands out there that also has non toxin brands and
they have a few products.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Like how is he going to come to you?
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Like how you can be front in mind for him
for his next purchasing decision. So then you've got to
really build yourself a brand, and that is like around
non toxin no faces, like this is the really brand
yourself as that.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
I think your point there was like, if you're going
to do the no faces, don't half do it, double
down on it. Look, I think it's a mistake because
when you purchase, you're purchasing a piece of clothes because
the kid looks cute in the clothes. If I can't
see the kid, I'm a lot less attached to the clothes.
But when I can see it, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Actually, the thing I did start the very thing I
said was great. It was like the pigs look great
and they sell the dreams.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
So and I know we've spoken all about non dogs,
and that's not what the message I'm trying to relay
is that. The message I'm trying to relay is you
need to create a business strategy that gives you a
chance of success and that doesn't make you compete directly
on price, because you will never win that. So you
need to sit down and figure out what is the
strategy that that will remove me from the race of
(20:48):
racing to the bottom end price, and that that could
be style. It doesn't have to be non toxic It
could be It could be style. It could be your
designs are so just incredible that people love your brand
for that. It could be status. You could make your
price really high and you know it's a status symbol.
You're an amazing logo, and someone knows, oh wow, they're
wearing a little locker. I wouldn't do that because your
brand little Locker doesn't relay status. But I do love
(21:11):
the name. But my point is you can't, like you
need to create a good strategy, for a winnable strategy
for your business. It can't compete in the same way
everyone else does because it will likely lose because they
have more of everything. They've got more resource to win.
So fight differently, don't fight the same I love that.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
I think we need to end on that because that
was beautiful cool. Thank you, Daniel, all the best, Emily.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
You have an amazing business.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Wait wait, wait before you go.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
If you enjoyed this episode and you want to be
featured on help my small business and get me to
deep dive on your business, well send you submission to
Hello at the lazyceo dot com. More details in the
show notes. All right, catch you guys next Tuesday.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Okay, that's it from me for now. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
If you're loving the podcast, don't forget to follow. Hello
and I would love it if you can do me
a favor and leave us a review, and if you
or more joined the conversation on a podcast Instagram at
the Lazy CEO on the Score podcast, all linked in
the show notes.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Catch you next Tuesday.
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