March 31, 2025 • 59 mins
The Vietnam War left scars that never fully healed—especially for the women who served but came home to find their sacrifices erased from the national narrative. In this deeply moving episode, we dive into Kristin Hannah's masterpiece "The Women," exploring how one nurse's journey from battlefield to home front illuminates a forgotten chapter of American history. This will be our final episode until June as we take a brief hiatus for wedding planning and work commitments, but we'll return this summer refreshed and ready for more literary adventures. In the meantime, connect with us on Instagram or Fable to share your thoughts on "The Women" and what books we should feature when we return!
SPOILER WARNING!
Start: 6:09
End: 54:20
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to the Lazy Girl Library, the podcast, where
reading is a pleasure andcaptivating adventures happen
from the comfort of your couch.
I'm your host, darby, and I'mMikayla, and if you've ever
spent more time rearranging yourbookshelf than your priorities,
then you, my friend, are in theright place.
Hello.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Darby.
Hey, mikayla, welcome backlisteners.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
We're so happy you're here.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
This is our book talk for the month of March.
We read the Women by KristenHanna.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Oh yeah, I love Kristen.
I love her.
Before we get into the book,let's do a little life check-in.
What are our five stars and onestar for the month?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Oh, I didn't think about this ahead of time.
My five star, um, I've beenreally good about taking time in
the mornings, when I've beenlike home, when I work from home
, or, um, on the weekends, tosit out on my patio and enjoy
the nice weather that we'rehaving right now, that's good my
(01:13):
tea.
Do a little morning meditationfor myself.
No, that's good.
Get into like a good mindset.
I've been like very, veryintentional with it and
regardless of how stressed I am,then I always make sure I take
that little time to, like youknow, start the day off right.
I love that.
I think that would probably bemy five star.
My one star, um, it's justexcited for this wedding.
(01:35):
But this wedding is stressful.
Uh, lots going on, uh, takingup a lot of my time, energy,
mind, space, so.
So that's just kind of been allconsuming in my life and I'm
excited, but it's also stressful.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah, wedding planning can kind of be a full
time job sometimes.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
So we're working through it, and the thing that
keeps me going is that I justkeep thinking about the day,
yeah, and how it's gonna beamazing and perfect and
everything will be great.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
It is, and I mean you can't stop it.
It you're locked in, like it'sgonna happen, so and it's gonna
be great.
Yeah, what about you?
All?
Right, five star, probably.
We had a big work event onthursday and it went really well
and I got to lead it, um, soit's been something that I've
been working on for a long timeand we like exceeded goals and
(02:24):
had, you know, meet, like we hadraised the most money that we'd
ever raised at that event,which was really cool, and the
the day was so seamless, likethe event itself had no fires,
um, and when you plan any event,like there's always going to be
a fire, like on my wedding,there was things that happened,
you know, like things just likehappen in events.
(02:46):
Um, and I've to this event inthe past and there's always
something that happens, butnothing happened.
I kept waiting for, like theball to drop and I was like this
is crazy.
So, knock on wood, hopefullypost event things go good and
something doesn't happen.
But so proud of you, thank you,thank, did so hard, thank you,
yeah, so it was really fun and,yeah, very impactful.
(03:08):
One star is probably just howtired I am now and the fact that
I can't stop because we haveanother big event in May.
So I have one month to kind ofreally hone in on that.
And, yeah, burnout is coming,but it's okay because we're just
going to push through and inJune I'll be a new woman, so for
your wedding I'm gonna beamazing and in much, much higher
(03:30):
spirits, but it's.
It's weird because it's suchlike a roller coaster.
It's like I'm so happy aboutthis stuff and I'm having fun,
but it's hard and I'm tired andI'm really tired and some things
are frustrating.
But this is really great, stilllike I'm enjoying it.
So that's kind of like I'vebeen feeling five stars and one
stars.
We keep going up and down.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah, this time it's been pretty crazy for both of us
.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I think, for our listeners.
Unfortunately, this is going tobe our last episode, at least
until.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Just for the spring season.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Just for the spring season, at least until June.
We'll be right back up in thesummer, hot, fresh, ready to go.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Day after the wedding , we're going to do a podcast.
I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
You know, sometimes life just takes over and because
this is something fun that welike to do, priorities got to
take importance at that point.
So unfortunately it will be alittle bit of a break for us,
but we're not going away farlong.
We will be back, promise.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yes, and maybe I'll try and post more on Instagram.
I'm sorry I'm so bad at that,but maybe I'll try and post some
more videos, while we don'tpost a full podcast.
We'll put some more content outin other ways, but this is a
great time to let us know whatyou want us to read when we get
back and to tell us what youguys are up to and for you guys
(04:47):
to keep us in the loop for booktalk and bookstagram and all
that fun stuff.
Give us the feedback.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
This is a perfect time when we come back for us to
kind of regroup and um reallycater to what you guys want to
hear from us.
So let us know on our Instagram, at Lazy Girl Library, on our
website, lazygirllibrarycom.
You can even find us on Fable.
I know we had a lot of thoughtsthere on our book this month.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
So if you're on there with us, then you've got the
little sneak preview of ourthoughts that we're about to
talk about.
But keep up with us there.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah, and we'll be back soon.
Yeah, it's only going to be forApril and May that we're
probably going to like skip outon, and then we'll be back in
June, like the end of June, soit'll go by fast.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yep, yay, but getting into this episode.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
What did not go by fast?
The Vietnam War.
Yeah, oh my gosh, oh this book.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Kristen, not more.
Oh my gosh, oh this book.
Kristen, you have my heart, butat the same time, oh, you break
it every time.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
You've taken my heart .
You've taken it All right.
So we can get into a littlereading recap and before we get
into it, we'll give a littlecontent, warning that there are
a lot of heavy themes ofviolence and the struggles women
can face during pregnancy.
So please be careful listeningand if these are triggering
topics for you, um, maybe skipout on this one.
Warning book spoilers ahead.
Please head to the descriptionand show notes to find where to
(06:15):
skip to.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
You have been warned skip to the end yeah, it is best
for you.
So um, but we start off in Mayof 1966 in Coronado Island,
california, where we'reintroduced to Frances Frankie
Grace McGrath.
She is mingling at a party forher brother Finley's deployment
to Vietnam as a Navy sailor.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Frankie is from a lavishly wealthy and prominent
family with a very pedigreedmilitary background.
There was never any doubt inthe minds of the McGrath parents
that both Finley and his bestfriend Rye Walsh would enlist in
the armed forces.
So this party is along-expected celebration of a
dream being fulfilled.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Bette and Connor McGrath.
Frankie's parents don't havesuch high military hopes for
Frankie.
However, she struggles with herfamily's misogynistic, limited
view of the obligations she andher brother are under Rye, on
the other hand, encouragesFrankie to believe that women
can also do heroic things.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
After Finley's tragic death and action, Frankie
defiles her parents' wishes andenlists as a nurse.
She begins basic training forfield nursing duties in the
surgical division in 1967 and isquickly deployed to Vietnam.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Although she is initially horrified by the
brutality and scale of wartimeviolence, she quickly adapts to
life on base wartime violence.
She quickly adapts to life onbase and while in Vietnam she
builds loving friendships withtwo nurses, she shares a
quote-unquote pooch with namedBarb and Ethel and she steps
into her new role as a surgicalnurse working under Dr Jamie
(07:58):
Callahan.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Frankie and Jamie hesitantly begin a relationship,
knowing it can go nowherebecause Jamie is married.
However, all seems to be lostwhen Jamie apparently dies from
injuries sustained in ahelicopter crash shortly before
finishing his deployment.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Frankie has almost no time to grieve.
Because of her excellentnursing skills, she's quickly
assigned to a far more dangerousarea in the highlands of
Fleetview.
Barb is exhausted from hertours and plans to go home
without reenlisting after thisnext assignment.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Frankie takes a weekend break in Saigon with
Barb and runs into her brother'sfriend, rye.
Their attraction is instant,but Frankie does not act on it
because Rye is engaged.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
After a more grueling time in the OR, Frankie is
forced to take an R&R break inKauai, Hawaii, where she runs
into Rai, who soon tells her hebroke off his engagement to a
girl at home to be with her.
They then enter into apassionate love affair that
helps them escape from thehorrors of the war for a while.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
After Frankie's tour in Vietnam ends in March 1968,
she knows she's still needed andchooses to extend her service,
as does Rye.
During her second tour, shesees more horrible wartime
atrocities than she can count,including the effects that
napalm had on the soldiers andcivilians alike.
She begins to drink moreregularly to dull the disgust
(09:24):
and shock.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
In March of 1969, Frankie returns to California
after a riotous partycelebrating the end of her
second tour.
As she waits for ride to returnto the US and for their reunion
, she discovers that life athome is not much easier than
life in Vietnam.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
The US is erupting in anti-war protests and, instead
of being seen as a hero, manythink of Frankie and the
veterans like her as villains.
She learns that her parents areashamed of her service and had
lied about where she had gone totheir well-heeled friends and
family.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Frankie has terrible, reoccurring nightmares about
the violence in Vietnam andisolates herself from her former
friends.
Things only get worse when shefinds out from Rai's father that
Rai had been killed in Vietnam.
To add insult to injury, hisremains are unrecoverably
damaged.
So there's no memorial service.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
His death devastates Frankieie and she loses her
temporary job at the localhospital because she wasn't
actively involved in combat.
The va also denies her mentalor medical health care.
Feeling like everyone despisesher, frankie turns to barb and
ethel for help.
Ethel offers her a place at herfather's farmhouse, giving
frankie room to plan what's nextand to adjust to her new lonely
(10:44):
life without Rye.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
The narrative shifts towards the girl in 1971 in
Virginia, where Frankie, who'snow 25, has picked up the
threads of her former life.
She's now a well-respectedsurgical nurse and is living
with Barb and Ethel.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Barb convinces Frankie to attend an anti-war
protest in DC.
Frankie receives news that hermother has had a stroke and her
father is struggling to cope.
She returns home to Coronadoand partially reconciles with
her parents.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Frankie then joins a group focused on bringing home
prisoners of war and starts arelationship with a man named
Henry Acevedo, an anti-warpsychiatrist who supports and
shows very persistent interestin her.
She becomes pregnant quicklyand they agree to marry, to the
relief of Frankie's parents.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Things go steeply downhill, however, when Frankie
learns that Rye was not killedin combat after, but returned to
the US as a former POW prisonerof war and has a wife and child
.
He was never engaged, butmarried and told no one.
Frankie is so shocked that shemiscarries and decides to end
(11:54):
her relationship with Henrybecause it's only making her
feel worse.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Throughout this period she's been relying on
mood-altering pills to regulateher PTSD.
But after breaking things offwith Henry, she begins to take
more and more and drink daily.
She spirals into full-blownaddiction.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Unsurprisingly, this has a negative impact on both
her professional and personallife and she's fired from her
nursing job at the hospital.
Rye comes to see her and,despite her initial fury, she
can't resist beginning a newrelationship with him.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
He promises he'll leave his wife for her
repeatedly, but never actuallydoes.
Frankie is willing to live inhope until she discovers that
Bri's wife is pregnant withtheir second child.
Once again, he has utterlydeceived her.
She's miserable and overwhelmedand, in her despair, overdoses
on pills.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Frankie's parents and a few remaining friends have
been very concerned about hersince she returned from Vietnam.
But this is the final straw.
Henry runs a treatment programat the local hospital where they
push for her to be admitted.
Henry explains to Frankie thatshe has PTSD from her service in
Vietnam and that it's thereason for her nightmares and
the root of her addictions.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Frankie still feels like no one understands what she
did in Vietnam.
When Frankie finishes recovery,she resolves to start
completely afresh, away fromCoronado and her past life.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
She buys a run-down farmhouse in Montana, just
outside Missoula.
She has a vision for how shecan help other former nurses
like herself deal with theaftermath of Vietnam.
She collaborates with Donna,another nurse with PTSD, to
transform the property into asanctuary for female Vietnam
veterans, called the Last BestPlace.
(13:36):
It's a success and women fromall over the country come to
recover and to live in community.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
The book concludes as Frankie attends the unveiling
of the Vietnam War Memorial inWashington DC.
The reader gets one finalsurprise.
In the last pages, frankiereunites with a recently
divorced Jamie who had survivedhis crash.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yeah, he did.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
All right, this was a very high, high-level summary
of what happened in this bookbecause there was so much detail
and trauma to it, so much.
But this is just a little tastefor those who need a refresh on
the book, or if you don't planto read it, but want to listen
to the episode anyway, so youcan kind of understand what
we're talking about.
But, darby, what were yourinitial thoughts?
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Initial thoughts.
Kristen Hanna is a genius.
She knows how to write.
I just think she has such a waywith words and portraying
history in an incrediblyemotional and moving way, but
also in a way that's easy tounderstand.
I was never a history buff inschool.
There's probably a lot ofthings that I was quote unquote
(14:42):
taught that I do not knowanything about, probably a lot
of things that I wasquote-unquote taught that I do
not know anything about, and soit was very like it was very
eye-opening again to learn abouthistory and and she just made
it so easy to understand it wasjust yeah, that she's great
she's so great.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
I couldn't agree more like it's like what a painfully
beautiful story.
It truly puts into perspectivethe trauma the Vietnam War
caused for so many, butespecially the women, in very
different ways than most wars inhistory.
And, like you said, I likehistory and, growing up, I knew
a lot, and you hear about thesethings, and you know a lot of
(15:21):
the struggles that Vietnamveterans had coming back from
the war, generically speaking,at least in my case.
But to hear it from A a newperspective and B in the level
of detail to where you can trulyfeel for them, oh my gosh, it
just yeah.
It gave me such a newperspective and the tone of the
book really helped you to feellike Frankie's feelings with her
(15:44):
which Kristen does.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
So, yeah, I think that's one of the biggest
differences.
And why, like her writing ofhistorical fiction is so like,
hits home so much more isbecause you have that emotional
tie, like when you're readingfrom history books.
You're not like connecting withthem in any way, because it's
so like it's so high level ofoverview of what happens and she
just really makes it personal.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
It gives it like an out-of-body experience where you
feel like you're almost likeFrankie in the story.
Which helps you.
Yeah, like connect to it insuch a real way.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah, it was great.
What do you think your favoritepart was of the book?
Speaker 2 (16:23):
I loved the sisterhood that Frankie had with
Barb and Ethel.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
It was so good.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
It was so incredibly moving and I think what was so
great about it is they were ableto find this connection during
the war to help them all copeand get through.
But I loved how it transcendedthe war and they really kept in
touch and were able to help eachother out even when they came
back home, because it's so easyto like move on or like get
(16:49):
caught up in your own life,especially because they're in
such different parts of thecountry.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
but as soon as like frankie needed them, barb and
ethel were there in an instantto be there for her, and like
vice versa.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Even when, like they didn't know they needed each
other, they were there for eachother despite like everything,
like all the different thingsthat are going on in their life,
like ethel starting a familyand barb, you know, being part
of these political movements,like, but they're always willing
to drop it all to be there yeah, their, their relationship was
like my favorite relationshipout of all the different
(17:19):
characters.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
That was great.
I think.
My favorite part, kind of likewhat my initial thoughts were,
honestly just learning moreabout a war and history that I
didn't know much about.
Of all the wars that I'velearned about, vietnam I
probably knew the least about,so this was really interesting,
um, to just like learn andespecially because, like this is
(17:42):
a war that our grandparentswere, you know, could have been
a part of or they were alive for, and even like my parents were
born in like 1961 and 1963.
So this was time of like theirearly childhood, which I think
is really interesting too, likeknowing, like it makes more
(18:02):
sense, like some of the viewsthat they have because of
learning about how, like whatworld they were brought up in
right, um, yeah, absolutelybecause it like, because it it
was so recent in history too, Ifeel like like the nightingale I
loved.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
but it's almost easy to still kind of remove yourself
from that time period a littlebit, because of it being a
little bit further in historythan this one was, but because
there are so many things thatyou recognize or understand in
recent history from it that italmost hit a little bit harder
for all the traumas that thesepeople went through.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
But did you have a least favorite part?
I did.
Honestly, it was like a lot ofmen and a lot of male
relationships, but it also likemade sense.
So I understand, like why theywere different men, because like
and like that's just how lifewent, you know, like she had her
(19:02):
morals so she wasn't going toget with Jamie in the war
because he was married.
But then she learned how fastthat things can change and she
should have said her feelings tohim and pursued stuff.
And then you meet Rye and thenshe's like a push and pull and
then you think he's gone andthen it's like OK, I have
nothing left.
But then this guy like so I getit, but I just wanted things to
be easier for her.
(19:23):
That's not real life.
So I understand it.
But because this is stillfiction, if I'm not liking
anything, it's like I wish thatit could have been easier for
her.
And then she just kind of hadone guy or two.
Three was like just like onetoo many, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
No, I get that I'm just kind of similar.
I know it was reallyintentional and it's what makes
Kristen's writing like soincredible.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, like it, it made sense.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
But yeah, it's just like my least favorite was like
how long it took for me tofinally find peace.
Yeah, yeah, it's just it'sheartbreaking to hear and like
all of the like constant youknow, trying to help people but
then like getting caught up inthese like love triangle things
(20:08):
but then never being able totruly like pursue anything and
having you know that love lost,um.
But then also like her cominghome and trying to find that
help from people um, but youknow she knew something was
wrong, but then constantly beingcast aside was so like
infuriating to listen to and uh,I also kept waiting for like at
(20:34):
the end, to for like the menthat she saved during that time
period to like pop up again,like when she was home at some
point to give her some sort oflike and she's not finding
relief within like love and likethe comfort of relationships,
at least like knowing that, likewhat she was recognized by
these people that she did saveand like she did a good thing,
(20:54):
but then that never reallyhappened yeah, she got like the
one at the end yeah, it just.
It was just heartbreaking like,yeah, I understand it and you
needed it, but it just.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
And that was real life.
You know, the US is a bigcountry, so it's not like you
are going to run into peoplethat you served and whether
they'd recognize you too.
It's so different.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, but one more thing about the guys is it was
hard to like connect and to likeroot for one Because it was so
like, and to like root for onebecause it was so like are they
gonna stay around like?
I know we both we can get intoit when we talk more about them,
but we both had like hypothesesabout who were actually still
around, and so it was like Idon't know if I should let go of
this one and root for this one.
(21:37):
I don't know.
So it was yeah it was hard yeahum, but what about Frankie's
journey?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
like hit you the hardest.
Was it specifically Vietnam orwhen she came home?
Also, like which side of thestory felt more emotional or
shocking to you?
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Well, it's hard to choose one, because they both,
like you know, they were both sohard, they both had shocking
elements to it.
I think, for me, though, thewar is something that like felt
more emotional because it'ssomething that I will hopefully
never see, like I'll never be inwar, that's not my calling.
So I think, because it'ssomething I'll never experience,
(22:18):
by hearing about it and likereading, you know what their
day-to-day life was like, andyou know the horrors that they
had to see and while they werestill helping even quote-unquote
the enemies, like going intothose villages and helping where
they can.
I think that was, you know,really hard and I said this
about the night nightingale too,but it just puts in perspective
(22:40):
to like there's war going onright now, that people are doing
that, so I I think that's justlike hard Whereas on the other
side, though, we've made so muchmovement and progress I will
actually that's this all comingout of my butt.
I know nothing about veterans,but it seems like we've made
more progress with, you know,veterans, and for our female
veterans, I feel like you cansee more stuff on this side
(23:04):
versus on the side of war.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah.
So I think that was more likeshocking to see like how they
like I know they see death andthey see all this stuff, but
it's, yeah, it's a lot.
But it was also kind of likeemotional to see like all the
pawns they form and like thelittle clubs they make out there
and stuff like that.
(23:25):
But that was me.
What about you?
Speaker 2 (23:27):
um, I definitely agree like both parts were
really difficult to get through,but I think the aftermath of
being at home was what hit meharder, and I think it's because
almost like the war was reallygruesome to read it and hard to
read at times.
Um, but because Frankie wasmaking that difference and I
think because just even insociety, like, we have so many
(23:49):
things about war that almost, atleast for me personally, become
desensitized to seeing orhearing about a lot of that
unfortunately versus theaftermath at home is something
that you don't hear about veryoften, or like you get that
experience and I think, becausewe have made such big strides to
(24:11):
honor our troops now and Ithink I'm sure that this was
like that stepping stone to likeyou know, okay, this was
horrible how we treated theseveterans coming home and like
helped improve that for thefuture and into now for us um,
but seeing like the oppositeside, coming from a military
family, like we have so manythings to help honor and like
help our troops when they'recoming back not to say that it's
(24:33):
perfect there's still a lot ofthings to improve but compared
to this time period at least, itwas really hard to hear about
the struggles that she's goingthrough and like all these
veterans that were going throughum, one that should be like the
reprieve from all the horrors,especially for her as a woman
too, like I think it just hiteven harder yeah, especially
(24:56):
during that time, because notlike I'm sure it was not easy
for the guys at all with thePTSD they went through.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
But for Frankie not getting any sort of validation
or anything from a single personbesides those who were with her
in the war, like not from herparents, not from a random
person on the street, not fromliterally other veterans, like
male veterans that were helpedout by female nurses, exactly,
yeah, it's like, even though nowonder she went crazy right, how
(25:26):
could she not?
Speaker 2 (25:27):
and with those troops it's like you think, like they
would band together to like,know, like okay, we're not
getting the recognition wedeserve, but at least we have
each other, except for you, like, oh my gosh, that was, it's so
hard to read.
Yeah, that was definitely.
I think the home part versusthe home part really hit harder
for me?
Speaker 1 (25:44):
yeah, I think too, because you have that connection
, like military connection.
It's like I'm sure you couldput yourself or put like your
dad in that space of likeimagining if he had to go
through like what they weregoing through at this time yeah,
no, that was rough yeah, um,something that wasn't rough was
(26:05):
the incredible bond that frankiemade with barb and ethel.
That really just transcendedtheir time at war.
Each woman brought somethingdifferent to the friendship.
What do you think frankieneeded most from barb and ethel
and what do you think theyneeded from her?
Speaker 2 (26:21):
so I think I do, I love their, I love this bond and
I think that they all broughtsomething really important to
each other.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah, they were like the best part of the book.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yes, completely agree , it's the women, the women.
But I think Barb really helpedteach Frankie how to be
confident and push herself to belike the best version of
herself and like know that eventhough you're scared, like you
can still do incredible things,whereas ethel, I feel, is more
(26:48):
of a comforting figure forfrankie and kind of like a
mother figure almost away fromwar or at war, and uh kind of
helped her stay sane whilesurrounded by like so much
horror.
Um, it was kind of like a goodcop back between the two of them
.
I feel, um, and I feel likefrankie helped bring like a
sense of innocence and moralityback for the girls who had been
(27:11):
at war for so long or beforefrankie showed up, um to like
help remind them that like thereare still good people and good
things in the world um afterseeing such atrocity that's so
easy to lose that kind ofhindsight in yeah what about you
?
what do you think?
Speaker 1 (27:28):
well, I think she definitely needed them to keep
her moving when she didn't knowhow, um, they were just always
there for her, which I think shewas there for them too.
That's just not, you know,written in that light.
I think ethel was a big supportsystem for her in the beginning
of the war and helping to gether like acclimated and like
(27:49):
helping to ease her into it.
Um, coming from like like beingable to see each other like,
even though ethel grew up on afarm and stuff, they they both
were still like, like they wereboth white and they both kind of
understood in that time period,whereas Barb, I think, helped
her grow so much and taught herabout so many things very
(28:11):
prideful of their country and ofwhat their families have been
able to do, and so I think barbreally helped her to grow and
(28:35):
not stay so innocent, but in agood way.
You know, you're so right.
Yeah, so I think I feel likethey touched on barb's
relationship with her a littlemore than ethel's relationship.
I feel like there was more likescenes of them together, um,
but I do think, like you saidtoo, ethel was also always there
(28:55):
to bring that like comfort andnurturing side um to both of
them and just being there, andthen, I think, for Barb and
Ethel.
They also just needed that loveand support from Frankie, just
being there with them.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
It was almost like Ethel was a mother figure versus
Barb was a sister.
I feel like the way that theirrelationships kind of because
like Ethel was there as likecomfort and like to help through
things, but wasn't necessarilyas close as barb and frankie
were in that sisterhood and thatbond that they truly like kind
of grew more yeah, yeah, buttheir friendship was so powerful
(29:37):
, like the friendship scenesmade me cry, where, like that,
those scenes made me tear up,more so than almost any other
scenes were.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Like when they came to her and it was like they're
here for her, I was like, oh,she needed them.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
So those were good yeah, all right, okay, but now
to talk about the boys.
Uh, jb and rye were bothimportant to Frankie in totally
different ways.
Uh, what were your initialfeelings for each of the men and
when they were first introduced, and how did they change as the
story progressed?
Speaker 1 (30:14):
it's kind of funny because when I first met Rye,
when they meet in like the houseand he's like women can be
heroes, I'm like okay, rye, likeI like him.
And then when we werereintroduced to him back in the
war, I was like why is he backhere?
I was like I like didn't loveit and I really was never fully
bought into their relationship.
(30:34):
Um, especially because when Imet Jamie for the first time in
the book, when he was likehugging her, I was like okay,
don't touch her.
Like that, you're being kind ofweird.
Like I didn't fully trust himbut really quickly flipped and
grew to like love him and Ialways held on hope, like that
was my big hypothesis.
When he was gone, I was likehe's not gone.
(30:55):
I was like he's coming back.
I was like, especially afterreading the Nightingale, I was
like he's coming back.
So, but it did.
She introduced so many guys thatit did throw me for a loop of
like I didn't know who wasendgame, but I was super hopeful
that Jamie would be endgame.
And for Rye, I was never likeyeah, I don't know.
And like I said in thebeginning, I was like yes, but
(31:17):
after Jamie had been introduced,I like really just pushed him
to the side and could never like, like it just didn't feel right
, like you know that gut feeling.
And then I know this isn't inthe question I never liked Henry
, like I thought he was such agreat friend but I don't
necessarily think they neededthat the relationship to be able
to get across like what it was.
(31:38):
You know, it definitely hadanother dimension, but he that
was like the one too many.
I was like we don't, we don'tneed this, yeah, yeah anyway
what about you?
Speaker 2 (31:47):
um, no, I completely agree.
Uh, I think that the two menand the way that they're written
really showcase um kristin'slike way with storytelling so
beautifully.
Um, because I feel like Jamie,the way that he was written in
his relationship with Frankie.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
I'm going off script, off my notes because yeah, yeah
, go off script, go with yourheart.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
I took the time writing all this out, like no,
we're just gonna go um, but uh,with Jamie she is like a you
could I don't know, I couldalmost see through the facade,
like when we first met him.
Like you could tell like he wasmeant to be like the charmer,
everything's good, whatever.
But you could tell the way thatshe wrote him like that there
(32:33):
were deeper feelings, it wassofter, it was more intimate and
like even his relationship withFrankie growing um through
their friendship and like thatlove that they truly had, but
Frankie refusing and pushing herin work too, like he
never.
He never let his feelings oflust overtake his relationship
of what he thought was best forFrankie, you know, and like he
(32:56):
respected Frankie's like choicesand decisions.
I mean, obviously you knew itwas hard on him but like he
still was a great friend and,like you said, pushed her to be
her best and to do these thingsand you could see just like the
shared, like bond and like thesadness that he held to and how
they were just like there to belike a soft comfort for each
other, which was devastating.
(33:17):
When he left, um, I definitelythought he was going to come
back at some point too becauseof the rock um, tear, yeah, um,
but then with rye, I liked himin the house, like you said, but
I completely forgot about himuntil he was introduced again
and when he was, I was like, oh,I don't like this yeah that is
the writing, because the waythat kristen wrote him was very
intense andvery like he was all of a sudden
(33:40):
latched onto Frankie and likealmost possessive in a way.
That really kind offoreshadowed that, seeing
Frankie more as like an objectto hold and a person to care for
, and so I never like, I neverlike cried.
I was like we don't like this.
And when he did, frankie foundout he died.
I'm like he didn't, he's got tocome back.
And when he did, frankie foundout he died.
I'm like he didn't.
(34:00):
He's going to come back.
He was probably a POW, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
He's coming back.
I thought that too, but you, ifyou read on our fable, michaela
, quickly thought onto the factthat he still had a wife.
I did not think that at first.
As we got closer I was like Ilike the thought.
No, actually, I don't eventhink the thought crossed my
mind until, like the plane scene.
(34:22):
And then I was like you, littletwerp, but you caught on to
that.
I knew he would come back, butI didn't know that he would come
back with a wife it was justthe way that he was so intent on
the word engagement you know, Ididn't even.
I didn't even like I promise I'mnot engaged where there's no
engagement kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
I was like, but what?
Hmm?
Well, what if there's a wife,though?
And then, yeah, on the planescene, when he's like I have
something to tell you, I waslike, oh yeah, no, there's
somebody, because she wastalking about going home and
starting a family together.
You could tell he like hewasn't about that because he had
one already.
So, yeah, no, we did not likeride.
No, not like rye.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
No, uh, that was hard I mean, I'm sure he goes
through his own stuff, but sureyou can empathize.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
You lying, cheating it's hard to get, and that's
what kristin does.
So well is seeing the complexityof it, because in a way you can
feel for rye and trying to findthat comfort, that escape in
such horror of it all and like,especially if you're with
somebody who you don'tnecessarily love back home and
then you find somebody you havean instant connection with.
(35:23):
Like it's hard to like havethose boundaries and and like
you can understand, likeespecially after the war too,
trying to find that comfort forall the trauma that he went
through as a pow.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
But you could still also hate him, yeah, yeah, and
because it's like like I'm suremaybe he did like love his wife
and loved Frankie, but it's likeyou made a commitment and you
have to choose to love your whatlike.
You have to choose that.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
So, yeah, it was a bit muggy, yep, not a fan, not a
fan, yeah, Okay, but do youthink Frankie wanted recognition
from the public or from thepeople closest to her more?
And what does it mean to beseen, and where did she find
that?
Speaker 1 (36:14):
I think.
Well, definitely from herfamily, but also from the public
.
I think she wanted both.
I think Kristen mentions thisin the very beginning of the
book and I think we've seen thisshift too, even now.
The Fourth of July used to besuch a community holiday and
(36:35):
everyone was just so for America, the USA loving Just having so
much country pride which I'm notsaying that was necessarily
like great back then, but it was.
I felt like it was a moreunified country in some aspects.
Again, there was definitelyfaults up in that regard.
(37:03):
I think that's where she wantedthat public's you know praise,
um, or not even like praise, butjust wanted the public to be
like, yes, you served, and likewe see that um, and of course,
obviously with her dad, the wallof heroes.
She wanted to make her dadproud, as we all do.
I was.
I was talking um, sorry, quickside note, but with my big work
event, I was talking to mysister about how it's, like I
hope, like dad says he's proudof me because you know, like you
(37:24):
just and my dad did yeah manytimes um, but like you know, you
just crave that parentalapproval too, um to know that
like you raised me, like I'mdoing the big things now.
So I think, definitely from herfamily and from the public, and
I think she just wanted to knowthat those around her knew that
she was doing something for thegreater good, or at least what
(37:48):
she thought was for the greatergood, even though we learned
that the war isn't what it seems.
Um, I think to be seen is to beunderstood.
I don't want to steal yourpoint, but one of the words you
wrote down, like I agree with,like you wrote to be seen as to
be like validated, I agree, um,but just just, yeah, to be
(38:10):
understood and to to just belike present for them too,
because it was they were sodismissive of her and so to not
even give her the time of day.
It's to literally be seen.
Give her the time of day, but Ithink she really gets this from
Barb and Ethel, which I thinkthat's hard when they're far
away and you can't do everythingtogether, whereas in the war
(38:33):
they were together 24-7.
They didn't write letters too.
It's not even like now, whereit's like yeah, I think she
throughout the book she gets ita little bit from the intimate
relationship she has with eachof the men.
But again, it's like not enoughand and you can't put your
(38:54):
happiness or your validation inanother person.
You have to be able to find itwithin yourself.
Um so like, like being seen isgreat, but you also have to see
yourself and like, know your ownworth.
And then, finally, at the end,her family.
You know, when her dad sees the, the one guy come up to her, I
was like, oh, that was anotherreally good scene.
(39:15):
Yes, but that's my long-windedanswer.
What are your thoughts on it?
Speaker 2 (39:19):
I agree, but, like you said, I think to be seen as
being validated, whether it bein your thoughts, your
appearance, your actions, andFrankie just craved validation,
but I think she cravedvalidation especially from her
father.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Definitely.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
I think growing up and seeing the hero's wall and
being talked about constantlyand seeing that's the way to get
validation talked aboutconstantly and seeing like
that's the way to get validationfrom her father and then to go
off and do the thing, come backand then still be like not even
just ignored but like lookeddown upon because of it, when
you thought that you were doingthis for him, was just like
(39:55):
really hard to hear about and Iknow that she just like all she
wanted was to make him proud,but he was like too stubborn and
self-righteous to accept that.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Yeah, and I think too , like like you can tell she's
like daddy's girl or she wantsto be, and it's like her dad
almost like doesn't want her tobe.
Like he's putting her in a box.
Like her mom is like let's goto the club, let in a box.
(40:24):
Like her mom is like let's goto the club, let's do this, and
she's like no, I want to, I wantto be more like I want to be a
nurse, and it like her dad isn'tsupport, like isn't supporting
that.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
So that's gonna be so hard to just crave that support
absolutely.
And like I know I like I'm gladshe finally got that in the end
from him.
Like when the veteran at the ummemorial service like uh, came
up to her and like thanked herfor what she did during the war,
like to finally hit the dad.
But I felt like by that pointhis character was just
irredeemable for me because itwas just like too late, like it
(40:51):
took another man validating yourdaughter's service in order for
you to validate your daughter'sservice.
That just like I'm glad shefinally got it, but it just but
it just it didn't.
It was too far, too little, toolate for me for him.
Um.
But I think that frankie alsowas just so caught up in living
for everyone else within thatthat she didn't find the
(41:13):
validation she craved until shecould see her true self and
accept who she was, that shewasn't like the daughter that
her mom was trying to make herin these you know women, but
then she's.
Then she started to do thewhole thing for her dad, but
then that didn't work out andshe's constantly just trying to
live up to other people'sexpectations, so she was finally
able to validate, like I did,this I'm proud of myself and all
(41:36):
I accomplished.
I think that's when she foundher peace and was able to like,
validate herself in that wayyeah, and she really was such
like a, like a servant leader.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Um, like, I feel like those are the quality of hers
and that was like her life'spurpose, because she wanted to
like serve in the war and thenshe finds peace when she's
serving other women and helpingthem know, like that they've
made a difference.
So I think that was cool too.
Yeah, just like realizing that,um, frankie and the other
nurses served right in themiddle of the war but were
(42:10):
treated like they didn't existwhen they got home.
Why do you think that theirstories were so easily ignored?
And do you think that kind oferase erasure did I say that
right?
Speaker 2 (42:21):
um, still happens today um, I think the
circumstances of the war were ahuge part of how these women
were ignored by society, becauseobviously all veterans, when
they came home from this war,were treated horribly and
society just wanted to erasetheir existence and like the
thought of the war itself.
But now you mix in the fold,like the women who served during
(42:42):
that time where women's rightswere just starting to kind of
like rumble under the surfaceagain and all the societal
movements that happening at thattime period.
It made it almost like evenmore impossible for them to be
heard and like thought about inthat way.
Um, and I think that we wouldbe really naive to think that
stories like this don't stillhappen today, especially in
(43:03):
other parts of the world.
But especially because, likeyou hear about in the book
kristen writes about the mediaand how it easily, it's like
manipulated until you truly onlysee, like certain aspects of it
or the government holding backinformation about things.
And now, with the media havinggrown exponentially since then,
(43:25):
um, their trustworthiness, Ithink, from that time period,
has also decreased a lot, umwhich I'm sure there are many
stories that have yet to be like, heard, that are still in the
making.
From that that we just don'tget, unfortunately, but
hopefully we will get to hearyeah, I, I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
I think part of it, like you said, was due to, like
the time and the fact that womenhad less rights.
Um, they also were the minorityin the war, so I think it was
easier to like quiet them andjust they were just overpowered
by the masses.
Um, I think it unfortunatelydefinitely happens today, but I
(44:02):
also don't think it's withmalicious intent.
Like, sometimes I think peopleare just so selfishly minded.
You know, we're all living inour own world and for ourselves.
So I don't think a lot of theguys in the wars meant to make
those women feel bad.
Rather, they were, like youknow, only thinking of
(44:25):
themselves, which I'm not sayingis OK, but I don't think they
just needed to learn.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
Like they just didn't know.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
You know, and I think today there's so much content
and so many bad things in theworld that it's not like they're
trying to erase it that thingsaren't happening, but it's
rather they're covering so manybad things that are happening
that it's like you can't keep upwith it all.
(44:54):
Yeah, so I think that issomething big that happens now
too.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
And also, too, it's almost like from the other side
of that.
With so many things happening,you kind of become numb and you
just stop paying attentionbecause there's always something
bad going on, that you're noteven paying attention to the bad
things anymore because you'rejust trying to get through life,
which then doesn't help thosestories be heard either.
Yeah, yeah, and that's a greatpoint uh, tough.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
And it is tough because, like it is happening
today, yeah, no, I think it's it.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
Is it the part about this book being so so much
closer in history than the otherone?
Um, and the fact that we knowthat things like this are so?
yeah, there's just likeinjustice everywhere yeah, I
just it gives you such anunsettling feeling leaving this
book, um, but I think that waskind of the point.
So, yeah, um, all right.
Well, we're skipping thequestion that we typically have
(45:48):
here towards the end of ourdiscussion of would you read
another book by this author,because the answer is obviously
yes.
We've read one before and I'msure we will continue to, but to
to replace it with somethingnew.
I'm curious what scene stuckwith you the most in this book,
like what was the one that youcouldn't stop thinking about
later?
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Well, jamie's scene with the departure from war, his
helicopter scene, because Ithink it was the first time that
she came face-to-face with therealities of losing someone in
war.
Obviously she lost Finley, butI but I mean, like in serving in
the war, and this seems like itwas the first guy that maybe
she even had these feelings for,because, um, you know, she was
(46:30):
a virgin and she just neverpursued that prior to the war.
So I think that that was justlike, so the grief she felt was
so big there.
And then another scene is that,even though her parents had
faults and didn't understandFrankie, the scene of them
(46:50):
rescuing her from the ocean wasa big one for me.
And I know you said that herfather couldn't be redeemed in
your eyes, but I think he waslike he was redeemed for me, um,
just because he couldn'tvalidate her war experience
again, I don't think it was likemalicious, it's just like he
didn't know which.
(47:11):
Again, it doesn't make it okay,but just like it took him
longer to learn and you can telllike because this happens
before he you know they go tothe memorial and it's like he
clearly has so much love for her.
He just is, he's, he's toostubborn enough to adjust with
(47:34):
the change of the times and togive her the time of day, which,
again isn't I'm not saying isright, but I think it's just
taking him longer to learn Right.
And she I mean Frankie herselfdoesn't even know how to portray
it because she's going throughher own things.
So it's like they're all justlike, it's just like life.
Everyone is going through theirown dark things, and so I'm.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
I just give them a lot of grace yeah, yeah, that's
like and that's the beauty ofkristen's writing with these
characters is she does createsuch complex characters that
have such different facets tothem, that can be interpreted
differently and have differentfeelings on it.
But then it's like you can feelfor one thing, it doesn't make
anything right that they didbefore, or vice versa they can
be a good person and still havelike bad things that they've
(48:18):
done, or like yeah, youshouldn't have done kind of
thing too exactly what are your?
Speaker 1 (48:22):
what scenes stick out to you?
Speaker 2 (48:24):
I had two on opposite ends of the spectrum.
Um, the first one were well,technically there are two, but
they're kind of combined intothe one uh, one breaking into
the va for help twice and wasturned away oh yeah, that made
me so angry I was fuming, I wasfurious, I was so mad because
she clearly like she, went thefirst time trying to get help
(48:44):
and they didn't even recognizeher as a veteran to begin with.
They just thought she was onher period, whatever, yeah I was
like, oh my gosh, howinvalidating and just
infuriating for her.
That was absolutely insane,because when I'm reading about
her struggles up until thatpoint I'm like, oh, I wonder.
When the va came into play,like I'm sure she can find help
there, she goes there and it'scompletely shot down.
Oh, I was so mad that firsttime yeah second time.
(49:07):
It happened because, after goingthrough everything that she
went through and clearly knowingshe needed the help and like
was desperate for that help, shewent again and was like, even
more like sassy, standing herground and like, no, like I
served and like was able to likepull out receipts of it and was
still turned away because herservice was not as serious as
(49:30):
other men's service.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
Yeah, I wanted to punch a wall, I know, yeah, that
didn't make me sad, it justmade me mad.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
Yeah, I was so, so, so, mad um.
But then, on the opposite sideof the spectrum of that one, I
thought I could make it throughthis book without crying.
I was like, maybe this?
how naive of you, I know,because I did.
I made it to the very, very endand I was like, I don't get me
wrong, I was getting emotional,but not to the point where I'm
like crying again.
Um, but I should haveremembered when it came for the
(49:58):
nightingale and before it camefor this one too was at the very
, very end.
Um, when jamie handed her therock that she had given him when
he was unconscious being takento the hospital, it said what
was it you fight with that kindof thing?
Oh, at that point I lost it.
Yeah I just full-on, sobbed um,and I don't even I can't explain
(50:20):
really why.
I think maybe it's just likeit's a full circle moment for
the way that frankie foughtwhile home and by being given
the rock it kind of symbolizedthat like her fight was over,
yeah, and that peace.
And it kind of symbolized thatlike her fight was over, yeah,
and that peace.
And it just kind of releasedall the emotions that had been
trapped in me throughout thiswhole book, I think, and like,
obviously it was emotional forlike finding, I hope, happiness
(50:43):
with Jamie, even if it's as afriend and not even as a
romantic relationship, becausewe really don't know.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
It's romance.
He's divorced.
They're going to live happilyever after.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
But we don't know now .
We know because she's alsoreally happy.
But no, I really hope she didshe would not have put the word
divorce in there if she didn'twant us to assume you're right,
you're right, uh, but yeah, itwas like I'm happy she found
that, but it was truly just likethe like full circle and like
the you fight and now her fightwas like over, yeah, um yeah,
that's got to be crazy though,too.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
Just the thought of, like, if you mourn someone and
they come back from the deadlike that's not something you do
, like, I can't even like.
What a concept.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
That's crazy like yeah, yeah, so let's hear.
You hit me at the buzzer.
That was a wild one.
Um, all right, but what wereyour final thoughts?
And star?
Speaker 1 (51:36):
ratings here five star, obviously.
Um, I do think I liked thenightingale better, um, but that
doesn't take away from like theastounding writing that was
written here.
But I cried so much more in thenightingale um, and I think
it's because I connected withlike every single character, um,
(51:59):
even like the side characters,whereas this one, like I said,
like some of the characters,like the relationships were just
you couldn't really connectwith right on a deeper level.
Um, but it was still good.
Again, it makes me feel twistedon the inside and just ignorant
to the current wars so that arelike happening now that I want
(52:20):
to somehow help with or delveinto um, and it also makes me,
if they're still alive, um, Iwant to meet some like vietnam
war veterans and like ask themabout their stories, especially,
um, you know, kristen and herauthor's note said that it was
so hard to find women, um, andto find, like literally to find
(52:42):
the history of the women thatserved in Vietnam, so that
writing this was reallydifficult, so it would just be
really interesting to talk tothem.
And also, like that, when I hadjust talked about like, what
was that like when people cameback from the dead, like was it.
Was it sad because of thesadness that you had felt for so
long?
Was it like relief?
I'm sure it was probably allthe emotion.
(53:04):
So I don't know.
Maybe we will go serve in somenursing homes or something that
could be fun.
Maybe I'll go find like a VAaround here and donate brownies
or something.
I don't know, something I thinkcould be fun.
I'd be down to do that, yeah.
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2 (53:19):
um five stars too easy easy.
I do agree with you, though Ithink the nightingale is still
my favorite out of the two.
Um, it just hit me on adifferent level, but I think
it's because, again, the way itwas written by Kristen and like
the way that she wanted you tofeel while reading it.
I think it's because, again,the way it was written by
Kristen and like the way thatshe wanted you to feel while
reading it.
I think with the nine gill ismore of like this truly poetic
(53:40):
kind of story that was morefluid versus this one was meant
to make you feel unsettled andunrest, like it sparked the
justice yeah anxiety of it alland like the fast pace.
It didn't give you the time toconnect with the characters
because that's kind of like thewar she was in.
It's just like this constant,like people coming in and out.
So I think it was intentional,but which I can appreciate, why
(54:01):
it was five stars for me.
But I do agree.
Yeah, the Nightingale just hita little bit harder, but it did
give me an entirely newperspective on this history.
That I'm so grateful for, and Icannot wait to read more of her
works because they're just sogood.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
Yeah, I agree, I agree.
Oh, that was the women.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (54:23):
So good, great way to wrap up Women's History Month.
Speaker 1 (54:24):
I know I love that Before we get into Burrows and
Returns, we will not be having abook club book again for the
next two months.
Um, but still follow us onfable because, who knows, we're
we're both going to keep readingwithin these next two months.
We're just not necessarilychatting about it on the pod,
(54:47):
but maybe we'll throw one onfable and we can still do, we
can still share our thoughtsjust virtually in writing.
So go check us out there.
Speaker 2 (54:56):
You can also always find us on goodreads too.
Um, our have our bios linked inour instagram so you can easily
find us on there and keep upwith what we're reading
individually until we come backfor our book club yeah, speaking
of what we're reading borrowsand returns, let's get into um
um, uh, I can go first, becauseI have nothing um, you're
(55:20):
reading wedding manuals, weddingcontracts.
Speaker 1 (55:22):
That's the better, yeah yep, all of that.
Speaker 2 (55:25):
My only return was the women.
I haven't started anything,probably won't until we pick
back up our book club, uh, afterthe wedding, just because life
is a little crazy.
So that's okay.
What are you reading?
Speaker 1 (55:36):
I'm still finding some room to get some books in.
I did an audiobook it was firsttime caller by bk borison.
Um, so I'd never read from thisauthor before, but I gave it
four stars.
It was just a cute littleromance book.
Um, the audio like voice actorswere not cringy, they were.
They're pretty good.
(55:56):
Um, there wasn't too many likespicy scenes and I honestly like
skipped through them, um, butit was just.
It was good.
I liked the concept.
I liked the characters.
Speaker 2 (56:05):
It's so funny because after our last podcast, when
you said that this was in yourboroughs, uh, all of a sudden
you start popping up oh really,social media and people like
raving about the book.
So I was curious.
Speaker 1 (56:16):
Yeah I did like it, it was good.
And then borrows.
I'm finally I know it's beenout for like a hot set well, it
really hasn't been out for long,but in the book world I feel
like it's been out for a whilefinally reading onyx storm by
rebecca yarrow.
So I've seen mixed reviews, soI'm trying to, like, take it
with a grain of salt.
I sometimes, when I readreviews that are like bad, I
(56:36):
feel like I sometimes just likecling to them.
I don't know why.
So I'm trying to take it with agrain of salt, because her
other two books were, um, reallyphenomenal.
So I'm sure that this one'sstill gonna be good for writing
too.
Whether she's gonna make mefeel some type of way or not,
we'll see.
But that's what I'll be reading, so you can keep up with my
thoughts on that on Goodreads.
(56:57):
And then I'm not sure what I'llread after that.
I think actually in April somenew books come out that I'm
wanting to read, like I think inthe Powerless series.
I think that new book comes outin April.
I think Emily Henry's new bookcomes out in April.
So those will be some that Ipick up.
Um, but yeah, it's so funnybecause by the end of last year
(57:21):
I was reading so many books amonth and now I'm like, okay, I
just squeezed in two.
So second half is our year.
Speaker 2 (57:27):
Second half we'll.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
We'll have our nose in a book, but right now we have
our nose in work and wedding,so but thanks for hanging out
with us listening.
I would love to hear yourthoughts if you are a listener.
I know we have a lot oflisteners who actually don't
reside in the US, so if you haveany thoughts on any like
American wars with othercountries, I would be so
(57:51):
intrigued to hear like what yourthoughts were, absolutely.
A different perspective, yeah,or just I don't know.
Yeah, I just want to hear yourthoughts in general.
Please talk to us.
Speaker 2 (58:01):
We'll be up on our people for a little while, so
feel free to go and leave yourthoughts for us to read and
discuss as well, definitely, butthanks for joining us, guys,
and we'll be back soon.
Speaker 1 (58:13):
See you in the summer .
Bye well, dear listeners, wefind ourselves at the end of
another episode and remember thelazy girl library is not just a
podcast, it's a community.
We absolutely love hearing fromfellow book lovers, so don't
(58:34):
forget to share your thoughtsand your favorite reads with us
on our social media.
You can find us on Instagram atLazy Girl Library.
Make sure to check out ourwebsite, lazygirllibrarycom,
your one-stop shop for allthings Lazy Girl.
Before we go, we want to take amoment to thank all of our
wonderful listeners, whetheryou're listening from your cozy
bed, on your way to work oranywhere in between.
(58:57):
Thank you for making us a partof your day and for being a part
of our Lazy Girl family.
So keep those pages turning,keep those imaginations
flourishing and remember thebest stories are yet to be
discovered.
Until next time, stay lazy andhappy reading.
Welcome to the Lazy Girl Library, the podcast, where
reading is a pleasure andcaptivating adventures happen
from the comfort of your couch.
I'm your host, darby, and I'mMikayla, and if you've ever
spent more time rearranging yourbookshelf than your priorities,
then you, my friend, are in theright place.
Hello.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Darby.
Hey, mikayla, welcome backlisteners.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
We're so happy you're here.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
This is our book talk for the month of March.
We read the Women by KristenHanna.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Oh yeah, I love Kristen.
I love her.
Before we get into the book,let's do a little life check-in.
What are our five stars and onestar for the month?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Oh, I didn't think about this ahead of time.
My five star, um, I've beenreally good about taking time in
the mornings, when I've beenlike home, when I work from home
, or, um, on the weekends, tosit out on my patio and enjoy
the nice weather that we'rehaving right now, that's good my
(01:13):
tea.
Do a little morning meditationfor myself.
No, that's good.
Get into like a good mindset.
I've been like very, veryintentional with it and
regardless of how stressed I am,then I always make sure I take
that little time to, like youknow, start the day off right.
I love that.
I think that would probably bemy five star.
My one star, um, it's justexcited for this wedding.
(01:35):
But this wedding is stressful.
Uh, lots going on, uh, takingup a lot of my time, energy,
mind, space, so.
So that's just kind of been allconsuming in my life and I'm
excited, but it's also stressful.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah, wedding planning can kind of be a full
time job sometimes.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
So we're working through it, and the thing that
keeps me going is that I justkeep thinking about the day,
yeah, and how it's gonna beamazing and perfect and
everything will be great.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
It is, and I mean you can't stop it.
It you're locked in, like it'sgonna happen, so and it's gonna
be great.
Yeah, what about you?
All?
Right, five star, probably.
We had a big work event onthursday and it went really well
and I got to lead it, um, soit's been something that I've
been working on for a long timeand we like exceeded goals and
(02:24):
had, you know, meet, like we hadraised the most money that we'd
ever raised at that event,which was really cool, and the
the day was so seamless, likethe event itself had no fires,
um, and when you plan any event,like there's always going to be
a fire, like on my wedding,there was things that happened,
you know, like things just likehappen in events.
(02:46):
Um, and I've to this event inthe past and there's always
something that happens, butnothing happened.
I kept waiting for, like theball to drop and I was like this
is crazy.
So, knock on wood, hopefullypost event things go good and
something doesn't happen.
But so proud of you, thank you,thank, did so hard, thank you,
yeah, so it was really fun and,yeah, very impactful.
(03:08):
One star is probably just howtired I am now and the fact that
I can't stop because we haveanother big event in May.
So I have one month to kind ofreally hone in on that.
And, yeah, burnout is coming,but it's okay because we're just
going to push through and inJune I'll be a new woman, so for
your wedding I'm gonna beamazing and in much, much higher
(03:30):
spirits, but it's.
It's weird because it's suchlike a roller coaster.
It's like I'm so happy aboutthis stuff and I'm having fun,
but it's hard and I'm tired andI'm really tired and some things
are frustrating.
But this is really great, stilllike I'm enjoying it.
So that's kind of like I'vebeen feeling five stars and one
stars.
We keep going up and down.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah, this time it's been pretty crazy for both of us
.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I think, for our listeners.
Unfortunately, this is going tobe our last episode, at least
until.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Just for the spring season.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Just for the spring season, at least until June.
We'll be right back up in thesummer, hot, fresh, ready to go.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Day after the wedding , we're going to do a podcast.
I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
You know, sometimes life just takes over and because
this is something fun that welike to do, priorities got to
take importance at that point.
So unfortunately it will be alittle bit of a break for us,
but we're not going away farlong.
We will be back, promise.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yes, and maybe I'll try and post more on Instagram.
I'm sorry I'm so bad at that,but maybe I'll try and post some
more videos, while we don'tpost a full podcast.
We'll put some more content outin other ways, but this is a
great time to let us know whatyou want us to read when we get
back and to tell us what youguys are up to and for you guys
(04:47):
to keep us in the loop for booktalk and bookstagram and all
that fun stuff.
Give us the feedback.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
This is a perfect time when we come back for us to
kind of regroup and um reallycater to what you guys want to
hear from us.
So let us know on our Instagram, at Lazy Girl Library, on our
website, lazygirllibrarycom.
You can even find us on Fable.
I know we had a lot of thoughtsthere on our book this month.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
So if you're on there with us, then you've got the
little sneak preview of ourthoughts that we're about to
talk about.
But keep up with us there.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah, and we'll be back soon.
Yeah, it's only going to be forApril and May that we're
probably going to like skip outon, and then we'll be back in
June, like the end of June, soit'll go by fast.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yep, yay, but getting into this episode.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
What did not go by fast?
The Vietnam War.
Yeah, oh my gosh, oh this book.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Kristen, not more.
Oh my gosh, oh this book.
Kristen, you have my heart, butat the same time, oh, you break
it every time.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
You've taken my heart .
You've taken it All right.
So we can get into a littlereading recap and before we get
into it, we'll give a littlecontent, warning that there are
a lot of heavy themes ofviolence and the struggles women
can face during pregnancy.
So please be careful listeningand if these are triggering
topics for you, um, maybe skipout on this one.
Warning book spoilers ahead.
Please head to the descriptionand show notes to find where to
(06:15):
skip to.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
You have been warned skip to the end yeah, it is best
for you.
So um, but we start off in Mayof 1966 in Coronado Island,
california, where we'reintroduced to Frances Frankie
Grace McGrath.
She is mingling at a party forher brother Finley's deployment
to Vietnam as a Navy sailor.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Frankie is from a lavishly wealthy and prominent
family with a very pedigreedmilitary background.
There was never any doubt inthe minds of the McGrath parents
that both Finley and his bestfriend Rye Walsh would enlist in
the armed forces.
So this party is along-expected celebration of a
dream being fulfilled.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Bette and Connor McGrath.
Frankie's parents don't havesuch high military hopes for
Frankie.
However, she struggles with herfamily's misogynistic, limited
view of the obligations she andher brother are under Rye, on
the other hand, encouragesFrankie to believe that women
can also do heroic things.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
After Finley's tragic death and action, Frankie
defiles her parents' wishes andenlists as a nurse.
She begins basic training forfield nursing duties in the
surgical division in 1967 and isquickly deployed to Vietnam.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Although she is initially horrified by the
brutality and scale of wartimeviolence, she quickly adapts to
life on base wartime violence.
She quickly adapts to life onbase and while in Vietnam she
builds loving friendships withtwo nurses, she shares a
quote-unquote pooch with namedBarb and Ethel and she steps
into her new role as a surgicalnurse working under Dr Jamie
(07:58):
Callahan.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Frankie and Jamie hesitantly begin a relationship,
knowing it can go nowherebecause Jamie is married.
However, all seems to be lostwhen Jamie apparently dies from
injuries sustained in ahelicopter crash shortly before
finishing his deployment.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Frankie has almost no time to grieve.
Because of her excellentnursing skills, she's quickly
assigned to a far more dangerousarea in the highlands of
Fleetview.
Barb is exhausted from hertours and plans to go home
without reenlisting after thisnext assignment.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Frankie takes a weekend break in Saigon with
Barb and runs into her brother'sfriend, rye.
Their attraction is instant,but Frankie does not act on it
because Rye is engaged.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
After a more grueling time in the OR, Frankie is
forced to take an R&R break inKauai, Hawaii, where she runs
into Rai, who soon tells her hebroke off his engagement to a
girl at home to be with her.
They then enter into apassionate love affair that
helps them escape from thehorrors of the war for a while.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
After Frankie's tour in Vietnam ends in March 1968,
she knows she's still needed andchooses to extend her service,
as does Rye.
During her second tour, shesees more horrible wartime
atrocities than she can count,including the effects that
napalm had on the soldiers andcivilians alike.
She begins to drink moreregularly to dull the disgust
(09:24):
and shock.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
In March of 1969, Frankie returns to California
after a riotous partycelebrating the end of her
second tour.
As she waits for ride to returnto the US and for their reunion
, she discovers that life athome is not much easier than
life in Vietnam.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
The US is erupting in anti-war protests and, instead
of being seen as a hero, manythink of Frankie and the
veterans like her as villains.
She learns that her parents areashamed of her service and had
lied about where she had gone totheir well-heeled friends and
family.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Frankie has terrible, reoccurring nightmares about
the violence in Vietnam andisolates herself from her former
friends.
Things only get worse when shefinds out from Rai's father that
Rai had been killed in Vietnam.
To add insult to injury, hisremains are unrecoverably
damaged.
So there's no memorial service.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
His death devastates Frankieie and she loses her
temporary job at the localhospital because she wasn't
actively involved in combat.
The va also denies her mentalor medical health care.
Feeling like everyone despisesher, frankie turns to barb and
ethel for help.
Ethel offers her a place at herfather's farmhouse, giving
frankie room to plan what's nextand to adjust to her new lonely
(10:44):
life without Rye.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
The narrative shifts towards the girl in 1971 in
Virginia, where Frankie, who'snow 25, has picked up the
threads of her former life.
She's now a well-respectedsurgical nurse and is living
with Barb and Ethel.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Barb convinces Frankie to attend an anti-war
protest in DC.
Frankie receives news that hermother has had a stroke and her
father is struggling to cope.
She returns home to Coronadoand partially reconciles with
her parents.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Frankie then joins a group focused on bringing home
prisoners of war and starts arelationship with a man named
Henry Acevedo, an anti-warpsychiatrist who supports and
shows very persistent interestin her.
She becomes pregnant quicklyand they agree to marry, to the
relief of Frankie's parents.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Things go steeply downhill, however, when Frankie
learns that Rye was not killedin combat after, but returned to
the US as a former POW prisonerof war and has a wife and child
.
He was never engaged, butmarried and told no one.
Frankie is so shocked that shemiscarries and decides to end
(11:54):
her relationship with Henrybecause it's only making her
feel worse.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Throughout this period she's been relying on
mood-altering pills to regulateher PTSD.
But after breaking things offwith Henry, she begins to take
more and more and drink daily.
She spirals into full-blownaddiction.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Unsurprisingly, this has a negative impact on both
her professional and personallife and she's fired from her
nursing job at the hospital.
Rye comes to see her and,despite her initial fury, she
can't resist beginning a newrelationship with him.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
He promises he'll leave his wife for her
repeatedly, but never actuallydoes.
Frankie is willing to live inhope until she discovers that
Bri's wife is pregnant withtheir second child.
Once again, he has utterlydeceived her.
She's miserable and overwhelmedand, in her despair, overdoses
on pills.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Frankie's parents and a few remaining friends have
been very concerned about hersince she returned from Vietnam.
But this is the final straw.
Henry runs a treatment programat the local hospital where they
push for her to be admitted.
Henry explains to Frankie thatshe has PTSD from her service in
Vietnam and that it's thereason for her nightmares and
the root of her addictions.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Frankie still feels like no one understands what she
did in Vietnam.
When Frankie finishes recovery,she resolves to start
completely afresh, away fromCoronado and her past life.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
She buys a run-down farmhouse in Montana, just
outside Missoula.
She has a vision for how shecan help other former nurses
like herself deal with theaftermath of Vietnam.
She collaborates with Donna,another nurse with PTSD, to
transform the property into asanctuary for female Vietnam
veterans, called the Last BestPlace.
(13:36):
It's a success and women fromall over the country come to
recover and to live in community.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
The book concludes as Frankie attends the unveiling
of the Vietnam War Memorial inWashington DC.
The reader gets one finalsurprise.
In the last pages, frankiereunites with a recently
divorced Jamie who had survivedhis crash.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yeah, he did.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
All right, this was a very high, high-level summary
of what happened in this bookbecause there was so much detail
and trauma to it, so much.
But this is just a little tastefor those who need a refresh on
the book, or if you don't planto read it, but want to listen
to the episode anyway, so youcan kind of understand what
we're talking about.
But, darby, what were yourinitial thoughts?
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Initial thoughts.
Kristen Hanna is a genius.
She knows how to write.
I just think she has such a waywith words and portraying
history in an incrediblyemotional and moving way, but
also in a way that's easy tounderstand.
I was never a history buff inschool.
There's probably a lot ofthings that I was quote unquote
(14:42):
taught that I do not knowanything about, probably a lot
of things that I wasquote-unquote taught that I do
not know anything about, and soit was very like it was very
eye-opening again to learn abouthistory and and she just made
it so easy to understand it wasjust yeah, that she's great
she's so great.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
I couldn't agree more like it's like what a painfully
beautiful story.
It truly puts into perspectivethe trauma the Vietnam War
caused for so many, butespecially the women, in very
different ways than most wars inhistory.
And, like you said, I likehistory and, growing up, I knew
a lot, and you hear about thesethings, and you know a lot of
(15:21):
the struggles that Vietnamveterans had coming back from
the war, generically speaking,at least in my case.
But to hear it from A a newperspective and B in the level
of detail to where you can trulyfeel for them, oh my gosh, it
just yeah.
It gave me such a newperspective and the tone of the
book really helped you to feellike Frankie's feelings with her
(15:44):
which Kristen does.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
So, yeah, I think that's one of the biggest
differences.
And why, like her writing ofhistorical fiction is so like,
hits home so much more isbecause you have that emotional
tie, like when you're readingfrom history books.
You're not like connecting withthem in any way, because it's
so like it's so high level ofoverview of what happens and she
just really makes it personal.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
It gives it like an out-of-body experience where you
feel like you're almost likeFrankie in the story.
Which helps you.
Yeah, like connect to it insuch a real way.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah, it was great.
What do you think your favoritepart was of the book?
Speaker 2 (16:23):
I loved the sisterhood that Frankie had with
Barb and Ethel.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
It was so good.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
It was so incredibly moving and I think what was so
great about it is they were ableto find this connection during
the war to help them all copeand get through.
But I loved how it transcendedthe war and they really kept in
touch and were able to help eachother out even when they came
back home, because it's so easyto like move on or like get
(16:49):
caught up in your own life,especially because they're in
such different parts of thecountry.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
but as soon as like frankie needed them, barb and
ethel were there in an instantto be there for her, and like
vice versa.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Even when, like they didn't know they needed each
other, they were there for eachother despite like everything,
like all the different thingsthat are going on in their life,
like ethel starting a familyand barb, you know, being part
of these political movements,like, but they're always willing
to drop it all to be there yeah, their, their relationship was
like my favorite relationshipout of all the different
(17:19):
characters.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
That was great.
I think.
My favorite part, kind of likewhat my initial thoughts were,
honestly just learning moreabout a war and history that I
didn't know much about.
Of all the wars that I'velearned about, vietnam I
probably knew the least about,so this was really interesting,
um, to just like learn andespecially because, like this is
(17:42):
a war that our grandparentswere, you know, could have been
a part of or they were alive for, and even like my parents were
born in like 1961 and 1963.
So this was time of like theirearly childhood, which I think
is really interesting too, likeknowing, like it makes more
(18:02):
sense, like some of the viewsthat they have because of
learning about how, like whatworld they were brought up in
right, um, yeah, absolutelybecause it like, because it it
was so recent in history too, Ifeel like like the nightingale I
loved.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
but it's almost easy to still kind of remove yourself
from that time period a littlebit, because of it being a
little bit further in historythan this one was, but because
there are so many things thatyou recognize or understand in
recent history from it that italmost hit a little bit harder
for all the traumas that thesepeople went through.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
But did you have a least favorite part?
I did.
Honestly, it was like a lot ofmen and a lot of male
relationships, but it also likemade sense.
So I understand, like why theywere different men, because like
and like that's just how lifewent, you know, like she had her
(19:02):
morals so she wasn't going toget with Jamie in the war
because he was married.
But then she learned how fastthat things can change and she
should have said her feelings tohim and pursued stuff.
And then you meet Rye and thenshe's like a push and pull and
then you think he's gone andthen it's like OK, I have
nothing left.
But then this guy like so I getit, but I just wanted things to
be easier for her.
(19:23):
That's not real life.
So I understand it.
But because this is stillfiction, if I'm not liking
anything, it's like I wish thatit could have been easier for
her.
And then she just kind of hadone guy or two.
Three was like just like onetoo many, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
No, I get that I'm just kind of similar.
I know it was reallyintentional and it's what makes
Kristen's writing like soincredible.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, like it, it made sense.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
But yeah, it's just like my least favorite was like
how long it took for me tofinally find peace.
Yeah, yeah, it's just it'sheartbreaking to hear and like
all of the like constant youknow, trying to help people but
then like getting caught up inthese like love triangle things
(20:08):
but then never being able totruly like pursue anything and
having you know that love lost,um.
But then also like her cominghome and trying to find that
help from people um, but youknow she knew something was
wrong, but then constantly beingcast aside was so like
infuriating to listen to and uh,I also kept waiting for like at
(20:34):
the end, to for like the menthat she saved during that time
period to like pop up again,like when she was home at some
point to give her some sort oflike and she's not finding
relief within like love and likethe comfort of relationships,
at least like knowing that, likewhat she was recognized by
these people that she did saveand like she did a good thing,
(20:54):
but then that never reallyhappened yeah, she got like the
one at the end yeah, it just.
It was just heartbreaking like,yeah, I understand it and you
needed it, but it just.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
And that was real life.
You know, the US is a bigcountry, so it's not like you
are going to run into peoplethat you served and whether
they'd recognize you too.
It's so different.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, but one more thing about the guys is it was
hard to like connect and to likeroot for one Because it was so
like, and to like root for onebecause it was so like are they
gonna stay around like?
I know we both we can get intoit when we talk more about them,
but we both had like hypothesesabout who were actually still
around, and so it was like Idon't know if I should let go of
this one and root for this one.
(21:37):
I don't know.
So it was yeah it was hard yeahum, but what about Frankie's
journey?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
like hit you the hardest.
Was it specifically Vietnam orwhen she came home?
Also, like which side of thestory felt more emotional or
shocking to you?
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Well, it's hard to choose one, because they both,
like you know, they were both sohard, they both had shocking
elements to it.
I think, for me, though, thewar is something that like felt
more emotional because it'ssomething that I will hopefully
never see, like I'll never be inwar, that's not my calling.
So I think, because it'ssomething I'll never experience,
(22:18):
by hearing about it and likereading, you know what their
day-to-day life was like, andyou know the horrors that they
had to see and while they werestill helping even quote-unquote
the enemies, like going intothose villages and helping where
they can.
I think that was, you know,really hard and I said this
about the night nightingale too,but it just puts in perspective
(22:40):
to like there's war going onright now, that people are doing
that, so I I think that's justlike hard Whereas on the other
side, though, we've made so muchmovement and progress I will
actually that's this all comingout of my butt.
I know nothing about veterans,but it seems like we've made
more progress with, you know,veterans, and for our female
veterans, I feel like you cansee more stuff on this side
(23:04):
versus on the side of war.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah.
So I think that was more likeshocking to see like how they
like I know they see death andthey see all this stuff, but
it's, yeah, it's a lot.
But it was also kind of likeemotional to see like all the
pawns they form and like thelittle clubs they make out there
and stuff like that.
(23:25):
But that was me.
What about you?
Speaker 2 (23:27):
um, I definitely agree like both parts were
really difficult to get through,but I think the aftermath of
being at home was what hit meharder, and I think it's because
almost like the war was reallygruesome to read it and hard to
read at times.
Um, but because Frankie wasmaking that difference and I
think because just even insociety, like, we have so many
(23:49):
things about war that almost, atleast for me personally, become
desensitized to seeing orhearing about a lot of that
unfortunately versus theaftermath at home is something
that you don't hear about veryoften, or like you get that
experience and I think, becausewe have made such big strides to
(24:11):
honor our troops now and Ithink I'm sure that this was
like that stepping stone to likeyou know, okay, this was
horrible how we treated theseveterans coming home and like
helped improve that for thefuture and into now for us um,
but seeing like the oppositeside, coming from a military
family, like we have so manythings to help honor and like
help our troops when they'recoming back not to say that it's
(24:33):
perfect there's still a lot ofthings to improve but compared
to this time period at least, itwas really hard to hear about
the struggles that she's goingthrough and like all these
veterans that were going throughum, one that should be like the
reprieve from all the horrors,especially for her as a woman
too, like I think it just hiteven harder yeah, especially
(24:56):
during that time, because notlike I'm sure it was not easy
for the guys at all with thePTSD they went through.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
But for Frankie not getting any sort of validation
or anything from a single personbesides those who were with her
in the war, like not from herparents, not from a random
person on the street, not fromliterally other veterans, like
male veterans that were helpedout by female nurses, exactly,
yeah, it's like, even though nowonder she went crazy right, how
(25:26):
could she not?
Speaker 2 (25:27):
and with those troops it's like you think, like they
would band together to like,know, like okay, we're not
getting the recognition wedeserve, but at least we have
each other, except for you, like, oh my gosh, that was, it's so
hard to read.
Yeah, that was definitely.
I think the home part versusthe home part really hit harder
for me?
Speaker 1 (25:44):
yeah, I think too, because you have that connection
, like military connection.
It's like I'm sure you couldput yourself or put like your
dad in that space of likeimagining if he had to go
through like what they weregoing through at this time yeah,
no, that was rough yeah, um,something that wasn't rough was
(26:05):
the incredible bond that frankiemade with barb and ethel.
That really just transcendedtheir time at war.
Each woman brought somethingdifferent to the friendship.
What do you think frankieneeded most from barb and ethel
and what do you think theyneeded from her?
Speaker 2 (26:21):
so I think I do, I love their, I love this bond and
I think that they all broughtsomething really important to
each other.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah, they were like the best part of the book.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yes, completely agree , it's the women, the women.
But I think Barb really helpedteach Frankie how to be
confident and push herself to belike the best version of
herself and like know that eventhough you're scared, like you
can still do incredible things,whereas ethel, I feel, is more
(26:48):
of a comforting figure forfrankie and kind of like a
mother figure almost away fromwar or at war, and uh kind of
helped her stay sane whilesurrounded by like so much
horror.
Um, it was kind of like a goodcop back between the two of them
.
I feel, um, and I feel likefrankie helped bring like a
sense of innocence and moralityback for the girls who had been
(27:11):
at war for so long or beforefrankie showed up, um to like
help remind them that like thereare still good people and good
things in the world um afterseeing such atrocity that's so
easy to lose that kind ofhindsight in yeah what about you
?
what do you think?
Speaker 1 (27:28):
well, I think she definitely needed them to keep
her moving when she didn't knowhow, um, they were just always
there for her, which I think shewas there for them too.
That's just not, you know,written in that light.
I think ethel was a big supportsystem for her in the beginning
of the war and helping to gether like acclimated and like
(27:49):
helping to ease her into it.
Um, coming from like like beingable to see each other like,
even though ethel grew up on afarm and stuff, they they both
were still like, like they wereboth white and they both kind of
understood in that time period,whereas Barb, I think, helped
her grow so much and taught herabout so many things very
(28:11):
prideful of their country and ofwhat their families have been
able to do, and so I think barbreally helped her to grow and
(28:35):
not stay so innocent, but in agood way.
You know, you're so right.
Yeah, so I think I feel likethey touched on barb's
relationship with her a littlemore than ethel's relationship.
I feel like there was more likescenes of them together, um,
but I do think, like you saidtoo, ethel was also always there
(28:55):
to bring that like comfort andnurturing side um to both of
them and just being there, andthen, I think, for Barb and
Ethel.
They also just needed that loveand support from Frankie, just
being there with them.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
It was almost like Ethel was a mother figure versus
Barb was a sister.
I feel like the way that theirrelationships kind of because
like Ethel was there as likecomfort and like to help through
things, but wasn't necessarilyas close as barb and frankie
were in that sisterhood and thatbond that they truly like kind
of grew more yeah, yeah, buttheir friendship was so powerful
(29:37):
, like the friendship scenesmade me cry, where, like that,
those scenes made me tear up,more so than almost any other
scenes were.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Like when they came to her and it was like they're
here for her, I was like, oh,she needed them.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
So those were good yeah, all right, okay, but now
to talk about the boys.
Uh, jb and rye were bothimportant to Frankie in totally
different ways.
Uh, what were your initialfeelings for each of the men and
when they were first introduced, and how did they change as the
story progressed?
Speaker 1 (30:14):
it's kind of funny because when I first met Rye,
when they meet in like the houseand he's like women can be
heroes, I'm like okay, rye, likeI like him.
And then when we werereintroduced to him back in the
war, I was like why is he backhere?
I was like I like didn't loveit and I really was never fully
bought into their relationship.
(30:34):
Um, especially because when Imet Jamie for the first time in
the book, when he was likehugging her, I was like okay,
don't touch her.
Like that, you're being kind ofweird.
Like I didn't fully trust himbut really quickly flipped and
grew to like love him and Ialways held on hope, like that
was my big hypothesis.
When he was gone, I was likehe's not gone.
(30:55):
I was like he's coming back.
I was like, especially afterreading the Nightingale, I was
like he's coming back.
So, but it did.
She introduced so many guys thatit did throw me for a loop of
like I didn't know who wasendgame, but I was super hopeful
that Jamie would be endgame.
And for Rye, I was never likeyeah, I don't know.
And like I said in thebeginning, I was like yes, but
(31:17):
after Jamie had been introduced,I like really just pushed him
to the side and could never like, like it just didn't feel right
, like you know that gut feeling.
And then I know this isn't inthe question I never liked Henry
, like I thought he was such agreat friend but I don't
necessarily think they neededthat the relationship to be able
to get across like what it was.
(31:38):
You know, it definitely hadanother dimension, but he that
was like the one too many.
I was like we don't, we don'tneed this, yeah, yeah anyway
what about you?
Speaker 2 (31:47):
um, no, I completely agree.
Uh, I think that the two menand the way that they're written
really showcase um kristin'slike way with storytelling so
beautifully.
Um, because I feel like Jamie,the way that he was written in
his relationship with Frankie.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
I'm going off script, off my notes because yeah, yeah
, go off script, go with yourheart.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
I took the time writing all this out, like no,
we're just gonna go um, but uh,with Jamie she is like a you
could I don't know, I couldalmost see through the facade,
like when we first met him.
Like you could tell like he wasmeant to be like the charmer,
everything's good, whatever.
But you could tell the way thatshe wrote him like that there
(32:33):
were deeper feelings, it wassofter, it was more intimate and
like even his relationship withFrankie growing um through
their friendship and like thatlove that they truly had, but
Frankie refusing and pushing herin work too, like he
never.
He never let his feelings oflust overtake his relationship
of what he thought was best forFrankie, you know, and like he
(32:56):
respected Frankie's like choicesand decisions.
I mean, obviously you knew itwas hard on him but like he
still was a great friend and,like you said, pushed her to be
her best and to do these thingsand you could see just like the
shared, like bond and like thesadness that he held to and how
they were just like there to belike a soft comfort for each
other, which was devastating.
(33:17):
When he left, um, I definitelythought he was going to come
back at some point too becauseof the rock um, tear, yeah, um,
but then with rye, I liked himin the house, like you said, but
I completely forgot about himuntil he was introduced again
and when he was, I was like, oh,I don't like this yeah that is
the writing, because the waythat kristen wrote him was very
intense andvery like he was all of a sudden
(33:40):
latched onto Frankie and likealmost possessive in a way.
That really kind offoreshadowed that, seeing
Frankie more as like an objectto hold and a person to care for
, and so I never like, I neverlike cried.
I was like we don't like this.
And when he did, frankie foundout he died.
I'm like he didn't, he's got tocome back.
And when he did, frankie foundout he died.
I'm like he didn't.
(34:00):
He's going to come back.
He was probably a POW, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
He's coming back.
I thought that too, but you, ifyou read on our fable, michaela
, quickly thought onto the factthat he still had a wife.
I did not think that at first.
As we got closer I was like Ilike the thought.
No, actually, I don't eventhink the thought crossed my
mind until, like the plane scene.
(34:22):
And then I was like you, littletwerp, but you caught on to
that.
I knew he would come back, butI didn't know that he would come
back with a wife it was justthe way that he was so intent on
the word engagement you know, Ididn't even.
I didn't even like I promise I'mnot engaged where there's no
engagement kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
I was like, but what?
Hmm?
Well, what if there's a wife,though?
And then, yeah, on the planescene, when he's like I have
something to tell you, I waslike, oh yeah, no, there's
somebody, because she wastalking about going home and
starting a family together.
You could tell he like hewasn't about that because he had
one already.
So, yeah, no, we did not likeride.
No, not like rye.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
No, uh, that was hard I mean, I'm sure he goes
through his own stuff, but sureyou can empathize.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
You lying, cheating it's hard to get, and that's
what kristin does.
So well is seeing the complexityof it, because in a way you can
feel for rye and trying to findthat comfort, that escape in
such horror of it all and like,especially if you're with
somebody who you don'tnecessarily love back home and
then you find somebody you havean instant connection with.
(35:23):
Like it's hard to like havethose boundaries and and like
you can understand, likeespecially after the war too,
trying to find that comfort forall the trauma that he went
through as a pow.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
But you could still also hate him, yeah, yeah, and
because it's like like I'm suremaybe he did like love his wife
and loved Frankie, but it's likeyou made a commitment and you
have to choose to love your whatlike.
You have to choose that.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
So, yeah, it was a bit muggy, yep, not a fan, not a
fan, yeah, Okay, but do youthink Frankie wanted recognition
from the public or from thepeople closest to her more?
And what does it mean to beseen, and where did she find
that?
Speaker 1 (36:14):
I think.
Well, definitely from herfamily, but also from the public
.
I think she wanted both.
I think Kristen mentions thisin the very beginning of the
book and I think we've seen thisshift too, even now.
The Fourth of July used to besuch a community holiday and
(36:35):
everyone was just so for America, the USA loving Just having so
much country pride which I'm notsaying that was necessarily
like great back then, but it was.
I felt like it was a moreunified country in some aspects.
Again, there was definitelyfaults up in that regard.
(37:03):
I think that's where she wantedthat public's you know praise,
um, or not even like praise, butjust wanted the public to be
like, yes, you served, and likewe see that um, and of course,
obviously with her dad, the wallof heroes.
She wanted to make her dadproud, as we all do.
I was.
I was talking um, sorry, quickside note, but with my big work
event, I was talking to mysister about how it's, like I
hope, like dad says he's proudof me because you know, like you
(37:24):
just and my dad did yeah manytimes um, but like you know, you
just crave that parentalapproval too, um to know that
like you raised me, like I'mdoing the big things now.
So I think, definitely from herfamily and from the public, and
I think she just wanted to knowthat those around her knew that
she was doing something for thegreater good, or at least what
(37:48):
she thought was for the greatergood, even though we learned
that the war isn't what it seems.
Um, I think to be seen is to beunderstood.
I don't want to steal yourpoint, but one of the words you
wrote down, like I agree with,like you wrote to be seen as to
be like validated, I agree, um,but just just, yeah, to be
(38:10):
understood and to to just belike present for them too,
because it was they were sodismissive of her and so to not
even give her the time of day.
It's to literally be seen.
Give her the time of day, but Ithink she really gets this from
Barb and Ethel, which I thinkthat's hard when they're far
away and you can't do everythingtogether, whereas in the war
(38:33):
they were together 24-7.
They didn't write letters too.
It's not even like now, whereit's like yeah, I think she
throughout the book she gets ita little bit from the intimate
relationship she has with eachof the men.
But again, it's like not enoughand and you can't put your
(38:54):
happiness or your validation inanother person.
You have to be able to find itwithin yourself.
Um so like, like being seen isgreat, but you also have to see
yourself and like, know your ownworth.
And then, finally, at the end,her family.
You know, when her dad sees the, the one guy come up to her, I
was like, oh, that was anotherreally good scene.
(39:15):
Yes, but that's my long-windedanswer.
What are your thoughts on it?
Speaker 2 (39:19):
I agree, but, like you said, I think to be seen as
being validated, whether it bein your thoughts, your
appearance, your actions, andFrankie just craved validation,
but I think she cravedvalidation especially from her
father.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Definitely.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
I think growing up and seeing the hero's wall and
being talked about constantlyand seeing that's the way to get
validation talked aboutconstantly and seeing like
that's the way to get validationfrom her father and then to go
off and do the thing, come backand then still be like not even
just ignored but like lookeddown upon because of it, when
you thought that you were doingthis for him, was just like
(39:55):
really hard to hear about and Iknow that she just like all she
wanted was to make him proud,but he was like too stubborn and
self-righteous to accept that.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Yeah, and I think too , like like you can tell she's
like daddy's girl or she wantsto be, and it's like her dad
almost like doesn't want her tobe.
Like he's putting her in a box.
Like her mom is like let's goto the club, let in a box.
(40:24):
Like her mom is like let's goto the club, let's do this, and
she's like no, I want to, I wantto be more like I want to be a
nurse, and it like her dad isn'tsupport, like isn't supporting
that.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
So that's gonna be so hard to just crave that support
absolutely.
And like I know I like I'm gladshe finally got that in the end
from him.
Like when the veteran at the ummemorial service like uh, came
up to her and like thanked herfor what she did during the war,
like to finally hit the dad.
But I felt like by that pointhis character was just
irredeemable for me because itwas just like too late, like it
(40:51):
took another man validating yourdaughter's service in order for
you to validate your daughter'sservice.
That just like I'm glad shefinally got it, but it just but
it just it didn't.
It was too far, too little, toolate for me for him.
Um.
But I think that frankie alsowas just so caught up in living
for everyone else within thatthat she didn't find the
(41:13):
validation she craved until shecould see her true self and
accept who she was, that shewasn't like the daughter that
her mom was trying to make herin these you know women, but
then she's.
Then she started to do thewhole thing for her dad, but
then that didn't work out andshe's constantly just trying to
live up to other people'sexpectations, so she was finally
able to validate, like I did,this I'm proud of myself and all
(41:36):
I accomplished.
I think that's when she foundher peace and was able to like,
validate herself in that wayyeah, and she really was such
like a, like a servant leader.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Um, like, I feel like those are the quality of hers
and that was like her life'spurpose, because she wanted to
like serve in the war and thenshe finds peace when she's
serving other women and helpingthem know, like that they've
made a difference.
So I think that was cool too.
Yeah, just like realizing that,um, frankie and the other
nurses served right in themiddle of the war but were
(42:10):
treated like they didn't existwhen they got home.
Why do you think that theirstories were so easily ignored?
And do you think that kind oferase erasure did I say that
right?
Speaker 2 (42:21):
um, still happens today um, I think the
circumstances of the war were ahuge part of how these women
were ignored by society, becauseobviously all veterans, when
they came home from this war,were treated horribly and
society just wanted to erasetheir existence and like the
thought of the war itself.
But now you mix in the fold,like the women who served during
(42:42):
that time where women's rightswere just starting to kind of
like rumble under the surfaceagain and all the societal
movements that happening at thattime period.
It made it almost like evenmore impossible for them to be
heard and like thought about inthat way.
Um, and I think that we wouldbe really naive to think that
stories like this don't stillhappen today, especially in
(43:03):
other parts of the world.
But especially because, likeyou hear about in the book
kristen writes about the mediaand how it easily, it's like
manipulated until you truly onlysee, like certain aspects of it
or the government holding backinformation about things.
And now, with the media havinggrown exponentially since then,
(43:25):
um, their trustworthiness, Ithink, from that time period,
has also decreased a lot, umwhich I'm sure there are many
stories that have yet to be like, heard, that are still in the
making.
From that that we just don'tget, unfortunately, but
hopefully we will get to hearyeah, I, I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
I think part of it, like you said, was due to, like
the time and the fact that womenhad less rights.
Um, they also were the minorityin the war, so I think it was
easier to like quiet them andjust they were just overpowered
by the masses.
Um, I think it unfortunatelydefinitely happens today, but I
(44:02):
also don't think it's withmalicious intent.
Like, sometimes I think peopleare just so selfishly minded.
You know, we're all living inour own world and for ourselves.
So I don't think a lot of theguys in the wars meant to make
those women feel bad.
Rather, they were, like youknow, only thinking of
(44:25):
themselves, which I'm not sayingis OK, but I don't think they
just needed to learn.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
Like they just didn't know.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
You know, and I think today there's so much content
and so many bad things in theworld that it's not like they're
trying to erase it that thingsaren't happening, but it's
rather they're covering so manybad things that are happening
that it's like you can't keep upwith it all.
(44:54):
Yeah, so I think that issomething big that happens now
too.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
And also, too, it's almost like from the other side
of that.
With so many things happening,you kind of become numb and you
just stop paying attentionbecause there's always something
bad going on, that you're noteven paying attention to the bad
things anymore because you'rejust trying to get through life,
which then doesn't help thosestories be heard either.
Yeah, yeah, and that's a greatpoint uh, tough.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
And it is tough because, like it is happening
today, yeah, no, I think it's it.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
Is it the part about this book being so so much
closer in history than the otherone?
Um, and the fact that we knowthat things like this are so?
yeah, there's just likeinjustice everywhere yeah, I
just it gives you such anunsettling feeling leaving this
book, um, but I think that waskind of the point.
So, yeah, um, all right.
Well, we're skipping thequestion that we typically have
(45:48):
here towards the end of ourdiscussion of would you read
another book by this author,because the answer is obviously
yes.
We've read one before and I'msure we will continue to, but to
to replace it with somethingnew.
I'm curious what scene stuckwith you the most in this book,
like what was the one that youcouldn't stop thinking about
later?
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Well, jamie's scene with the departure from war, his
helicopter scene, because Ithink it was the first time that
she came face-to-face with therealities of losing someone in
war.
Obviously she lost Finley, butI but I mean, like in serving in
the war, and this seems like itwas the first guy that maybe
she even had these feelings for,because, um, you know, she was
(46:30):
a virgin and she just neverpursued that prior to the war.
So I think that that was justlike, so the grief she felt was
so big there.
And then another scene is that,even though her parents had
faults and didn't understandFrankie, the scene of them
(46:50):
rescuing her from the ocean wasa big one for me.
And I know you said that herfather couldn't be redeemed in
your eyes, but I think he waslike he was redeemed for me, um,
just because he couldn'tvalidate her war experience
again, I don't think it was likemalicious, it's just like he
didn't know which.
(47:11):
Again, it doesn't make it okay,but just like it took him
longer to learn and you can telllike because this happens
before he you know they go tothe memorial and it's like he
clearly has so much love for her.
He just is, he's, he's toostubborn enough to adjust with
(47:34):
the change of the times and togive her the time of day, which,
again isn't I'm not saying isright, but I think it's just
taking him longer to learn Right.
And she I mean Frankie herselfdoesn't even know how to portray
it because she's going throughher own things.
So it's like they're all justlike, it's just like life.
Everyone is going through theirown dark things, and so I'm.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
I just give them a lot of grace yeah, yeah, that's
like and that's the beauty ofkristen's writing with these
characters is she does createsuch complex characters that
have such different facets tothem, that can be interpreted
differently and have differentfeelings on it.
But then it's like you can feelfor one thing, it doesn't make
anything right that they didbefore, or vice versa they can
be a good person and still havelike bad things that they've
(48:18):
done, or like yeah, youshouldn't have done kind of
thing too exactly what are your?
Speaker 1 (48:22):
what scenes stick out to you?
Speaker 2 (48:24):
I had two on opposite ends of the spectrum.
Um, the first one were well,technically there are two, but
they're kind of combined intothe one uh, one breaking into
the va for help twice and wasturned away oh yeah, that made
me so angry I was fuming, I wasfurious, I was so mad because
she clearly like she, went thefirst time trying to get help
(48:44):
and they didn't even recognizeher as a veteran to begin with.
They just thought she was onher period, whatever, yeah I was
like, oh my gosh, howinvalidating and just
infuriating for her.
That was absolutely insane,because when I'm reading about
her struggles up until thatpoint I'm like, oh, I wonder.
When the va came into play,like I'm sure she can find help
there, she goes there and it'scompletely shot down.
Oh, I was so mad that firsttime yeah second time.
(49:07):
It happened because, after goingthrough everything that she
went through and clearly knowingshe needed the help and like
was desperate for that help, shewent again and was like, even
more like sassy, standing herground and like, no, like I
served and like was able to likepull out receipts of it and was
still turned away because herservice was not as serious as
(49:30):
other men's service.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
Yeah, I wanted to punch a wall, I know, yeah, that
didn't make me sad, it justmade me mad.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
Yeah, I was so, so, so, mad um.
But then, on the opposite sideof the spectrum of that one, I
thought I could make it throughthis book without crying.
I was like, maybe this?
how naive of you, I know,because I did.
I made it to the very, very endand I was like, I don't get me
wrong, I was getting emotional,but not to the point where I'm
like crying again.
Um, but I should haveremembered when it came for the
(49:58):
nightingale and before it camefor this one too was at the very
, very end.
Um, when jamie handed her therock that she had given him when
he was unconscious being takento the hospital, it said what
was it you fight with that kindof thing?
Oh, at that point I lost it.
Yeah I just full-on, sobbed um,and I don't even I can't explain
(50:20):
really why.
I think maybe it's just likeit's a full circle moment for
the way that frankie foughtwhile home and by being given
the rock it kind of symbolizedthat like her fight was over,
yeah, and that peace.
And it kind of symbolized thatlike her fight was over, yeah,
and that peace.
And it just kind of releasedall the emotions that had been
trapped in me throughout thiswhole book, I think, and like,
obviously it was emotional forlike finding, I hope, happiness
(50:43):
with Jamie, even if it's as afriend and not even as a
romantic relationship, becausewe really don't know.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
It's romance.
He's divorced.
They're going to live happilyever after.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
But we don't know now .
We know because she's alsoreally happy.
But no, I really hope she didshe would not have put the word
divorce in there if she didn'twant us to assume you're right,
you're right, uh, but yeah, itwas like I'm happy she found
that, but it was truly just likethe like full circle and like
the you fight and now her fightwas like over, yeah, um yeah,
that's got to be crazy though,too.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
Just the thought of, like, if you mourn someone and
they come back from the deadlike that's not something you do
, like, I can't even like.
What a concept.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
That's crazy like yeah, yeah, so let's hear.
You hit me at the buzzer.
That was a wild one.
Um, all right, but what wereyour final thoughts?
And star?
Speaker 1 (51:36):
ratings here five star, obviously.
Um, I do think I liked thenightingale better, um, but that
doesn't take away from like theastounding writing that was
written here.
But I cried so much more in thenightingale um, and I think
it's because I connected withlike every single character, um,
(51:59):
even like the side characters,whereas this one, like I said,
like some of the characters,like the relationships were just
you couldn't really connectwith right on a deeper level.
Um, but it was still good.
Again, it makes me feel twistedon the inside and just ignorant
to the current wars so that arelike happening now that I want
(52:20):
to somehow help with or delveinto um, and it also makes me,
if they're still alive, um, Iwant to meet some like vietnam
war veterans and like ask themabout their stories, especially,
um, you know, kristen and herauthor's note said that it was
so hard to find women, um, andto find, like literally to find
(52:42):
the history of the women thatserved in Vietnam, so that
writing this was reallydifficult, so it would just be
really interesting to talk tothem.
And also, like that, when I hadjust talked about like, what
was that like when people cameback from the dead, like was it.
Was it sad because of thesadness that you had felt for so
long?
Was it like relief?
I'm sure it was probably allthe emotion.
(53:04):
So I don't know.
Maybe we will go serve in somenursing homes or something that
could be fun.
Maybe I'll go find like a VAaround here and donate brownies
or something.
I don't know, something I thinkcould be fun.
I'd be down to do that, yeah.
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2 (53:19):
um five stars too easy easy.
I do agree with you, though Ithink the nightingale is still
my favorite out of the two.
Um, it just hit me on adifferent level, but I think
it's because, again, the way itwas written by Kristen and like
the way that she wanted you tofeel while reading it.
I think it's because, again,the way it was written by
Kristen and like the way thatshe wanted you to feel while
reading it.
I think with the nine gill ismore of like this truly poetic
(53:40):
kind of story that was morefluid versus this one was meant
to make you feel unsettled andunrest, like it sparked the
justice yeah anxiety of it alland like the fast pace.
It didn't give you the time toconnect with the characters
because that's kind of like thewar she was in.
It's just like this constant,like people coming in and out.
So I think it was intentional,but which I can appreciate, why
(54:01):
it was five stars for me.
But I do agree.
Yeah, the Nightingale just hita little bit harder, but it did
give me an entirely newperspective on this history.
That I'm so grateful for, and Icannot wait to read more of her
works because they're just sogood.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
Yeah, I agree, I agree.
Oh, that was the women.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (54:23):
So good, great way to wrap up Women's History Month.
Speaker 1 (54:24):
I know I love that Before we get into Burrows and
Returns, we will not be having abook club book again for the
next two months.
Um, but still follow us onfable because, who knows, we're
we're both going to keep readingwithin these next two months.
We're just not necessarilychatting about it on the pod,
(54:47):
but maybe we'll throw one onfable and we can still do, we
can still share our thoughtsjust virtually in writing.
So go check us out there.
Speaker 2 (54:56):
You can also always find us on goodreads too.
Um, our have our bios linked inour instagram so you can easily
find us on there and keep upwith what we're reading
individually until we come backfor our book club yeah, speaking
of what we're reading borrowsand returns, let's get into um
um, uh, I can go first, becauseI have nothing um, you're
(55:20):
reading wedding manuals, weddingcontracts.
Speaker 1 (55:22):
That's the better, yeah yep, all of that.
Speaker 2 (55:25):
My only return was the women.
I haven't started anything,probably won't until we pick
back up our book club, uh, afterthe wedding, just because life
is a little crazy.
So that's okay.
What are you reading?
Speaker 1 (55:36):
I'm still finding some room to get some books in.
I did an audiobook it was firsttime caller by bk borison.
Um, so I'd never read from thisauthor before, but I gave it
four stars.
It was just a cute littleromance book.
Um, the audio like voice actorswere not cringy, they were.
They're pretty good.
(55:56):
Um, there wasn't too many likespicy scenes and I honestly like
skipped through them, um, butit was just.
It was good.
I liked the concept.
I liked the characters.
Speaker 2 (56:05):
It's so funny because after our last podcast, when
you said that this was in yourboroughs, uh, all of a sudden
you start popping up oh really,social media and people like
raving about the book.
So I was curious.
Speaker 1 (56:16):
Yeah I did like it, it was good.
And then borrows.
I'm finally I know it's beenout for like a hot set well, it
really hasn't been out for long,but in the book world I feel
like it's been out for a whilefinally reading onyx storm by
rebecca yarrow.
So I've seen mixed reviews, soI'm trying to, like, take it
with a grain of salt.
I sometimes, when I readreviews that are like bad, I
(56:36):
feel like I sometimes just likecling to them.
I don't know why.
So I'm trying to take it with agrain of salt, because her
other two books were, um, reallyphenomenal.
So I'm sure that this one'sstill gonna be good for writing
too.
Whether she's gonna make mefeel some type of way or not,
we'll see.
But that's what I'll be reading, so you can keep up with my
thoughts on that on Goodreads.
(56:57):
And then I'm not sure what I'llread after that.
I think actually in April somenew books come out that I'm
wanting to read, like I think inthe Powerless series.
I think that new book comes outin April.
I think Emily Henry's new bookcomes out in April.
So those will be some that Ipick up.
Um, but yeah, it's so funnybecause by the end of last year
(57:21):
I was reading so many books amonth and now I'm like, okay, I
just squeezed in two.
So second half is our year.
Speaker 2 (57:27):
Second half we'll.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
We'll have our nose in a book, but right now we have
our nose in work and wedding,so but thanks for hanging out
with us listening.
I would love to hear yourthoughts if you are a listener.
I know we have a lot oflisteners who actually don't
reside in the US, so if you haveany thoughts on any like
American wars with othercountries, I would be so
(57:51):
intrigued to hear like what yourthoughts were, absolutely.
A different perspective, yeah,or just I don't know.
Yeah, I just want to hear yourthoughts in general.
Please talk to us.
Speaker 2 (58:01):
We'll be up on our people for a little while, so
feel free to go and leave yourthoughts for us to read and
discuss as well, definitely, butthanks for joining us, guys,
and we'll be back soon.
Speaker 1 (58:13):
See you in the summer .
Bye well, dear listeners, wefind ourselves at the end of
another episode and remember thelazy girl library is not just a
podcast, it's a community.
We absolutely love hearing fromfellow book lovers, so don't
(58:34):
forget to share your thoughtsand your favorite reads with us
on our social media.
You can find us on Instagram atLazy Girl Library.
Make sure to check out ourwebsite, lazygirllibrarycom,
your one-stop shop for allthings Lazy Girl.
Before we go, we want to take amoment to thank all of our
wonderful listeners, whetheryou're listening from your cozy
bed, on your way to work oranywhere in between.
(58:57):
Thank you for making us a partof your day and for being a part
of our Lazy Girl family.
So keep those pages turning,keep those imaginations
flourishing and remember thebest stories are yet to be
discovered.
Until next time, stay lazy andhappy reading.
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