July 28, 2025 • 39 mins
Roberto “Taz” Villaseñor: Faith, Policing, and the Power of Listening
In this episode of The Legacy Project, host Jim Copple sits down with Roberto “Taz” Villaseñor, former Chief of the Tucson Police Department and a key member of President Obama’s Task Force on 21st Century Policing.
Taz shares his journey—from growing up in a multi-generational immigrant family in Tucson, to finding faith as a teenager, and ultimately leading one of Arizona’s largest police departments. He speaks openly about the conflict between suspicion and trust, what it's like to be a police chief in a post-George Floyd world, and how his faith continues to shape his life and legacy.
You'll hear real stories—some painful, some redemptive—and gain insight into what it takes to lead with integrity in law enforcement. Whether you're a cop, a reformer, a community advocate, or someone seeking deeper understanding, this episode will make you think.
Check out some of Taz's work at 21CP Solutions. https://www.21cpsolutions.com
The Legacy Project is a series of conversations that focuses on legacy, the one we inherit and the one we can create. It is value based and not material based. We interview a wide range of individuals who reflect on key influencers in their lives.
Please subscribe to our podcast to hear future episodes. Please also consider leaving us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts. You can learn more on our Facebook Page.
#LegacyProject #JamesCopple #Interview
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
UNKNOWN (00:00):
music
SPEAKER_01 (00:04):
Welcome to The Legacy Project.
Today, we're talking to RobertoValencior.
He goes by Taz.
I've known Taz for the last 10years, worked with him as a
facilitator of a task force onPresident Obama's Task Force on
21st Century Policing.
Got to know him well and enjoyedhis professional work and call
(00:24):
him a friend.
The Legacy Project is aboutunderstanding the influences
that have shaped us and at thesame time, exploring the legacy
we want to create and the legacywe want to be known by.
So, Taz, where were you born?
Where are you from?
Oh, I'm born, bred, raised inTucson, Arizona, and I have deep
(00:48):
ties to the community.
On my mom's side, we go backfive generations to southern
Arizona.
There were ranchers here in theSonoyta, Patagonia area.
And on my dad's side, mygrandfather...
immigrated across as a cobbler,shoe repairman.
He and my father were both shoerepairmen.
I was raised in a shoe repairshop.
(01:10):
And we've been established inTucson now for at least five
generations.
Wow.
That's significant.
There are not many people thatcan say that kind of lineage for
that long of a period of time.
Correct.
Yeah, that's great.
As a child growing up, who arethe big influences in your life?
Who helps shape who you are,your values, the things that
(01:33):
have really defined who you are?
Well, there are several issues.
Obviously, my parents, both mymom and dad.
And they brought me up in a veryclose-knit family.
Every Sunday, we would go overto my grandmother's house on my
dad's side or go over to mymom's parents.
(01:53):
And a lot of familyget-togethers, a lot of family
parties and dinners and meals.
And so that shaped me a lot.
But then I have to say thatsports really had an influence
on me, playing football andwrestling and sports.
chocolate and discus.
(02:14):
And so I've always liked a sportmentality, a teamwork mentality,
a lot of effort to achieve whatyou want to achieve.
But then I have to really saythat over the years, faith has
been a very big influence forme.
Growing up, being raised as aRoman Catholic, I read the
(02:39):
entire one of the most bigfamily Bibles, and from the time
I was about 12, 13 years old, Iwould read a little bit every
night, and I read through thatwhole Bible, and I have since
become non-denominationalChristian for a variety of
reasons, but I noticed rightaway that the Maccabees are not
(03:01):
in a non-Catholic Bible, and sothat kind of changed things, but
So my faith, you know, catechismand going through that.
And then since then, therelationship I've developed with
Jesus Christ and God, I thinkit's been a huge influence for
me.
(03:21):
So was that an expectation inyour family?
At what point did it reallybecome your own?
Oh, like I said, probably 12 or13.
I kind of, I think, suppressedmy family.
Because if you were to say,every family has a black sheep,
that was probably me.
My sister was very strong-willedand rebellious.
(03:45):
She was probably second inrunning for it, but she just
didn't like being under controlof my father, and so soon she
turned 18.
She left the college and nevercame back.
My brother was like everyparent's dream.
He was my older brother.
He was a letterman in sports andbaseball, and He was homecoming,
(04:07):
court, and all that.
And I was not any of thosethings.
I got into trouble some when Iwas young and did things I
shouldn't have done.
And so I think it really shockedthem when they would see me
reading the Bible at night.
And they even said sometimes inmy sleep I would be mumbling
(04:27):
things, and it sounded to themlike Bible verses.
And I'm sure that's becauseright before I went to bed, I
was reading.
Yeah.
the Bible and stuff.
So I can't say that anyone drewme in or brought me in other
than just the motivation I hadmyself.
So how did that faith or thediscipline you took really to
(04:47):
read through the scriptures, howdid that influence decisions
that you made or choices thatyou made?
How present was that in thatprocess?
I tried to do everything forwhat I consider to be a sound
fair basis.
And I also really need toemphasize, while I say that
(05:09):
faith had a great influence onme, I definitely had issues of
not being obedient to what myfaith said how I should act.
I was rebellious, I was acharacter, and so you don't get
a nickname like Taz withouthaving some issues there in the
(05:31):
background.
But I think that it instilled inme a genuine belief in doing
things by other people that areright.
To treat people fairly, to beconscious of their feelings, to
understand how they may perceivethings, and try and see if that
(05:53):
perception is something I canmeld with.
If it's not, it's not.
But at least I don't have to bedisrespectful to them.
To what extent, in terms of yourdevelopment, did education play
a role for you?
Originally, very little.
(06:14):
School didn't interest me atall.
I went through it, and I kept mygrades to an average grade
level, even though I testedprobably could have been an
advanced education.
My parents couldn't afford itand didn't feel the need there.
But I was bored in school.
And I did just enough to get C'sso I could play sports.
(06:35):
Yeah, I was going to say toqualify for sports.
But then once I got into myprofessional life, it wasn't
until I really became, you know,I went to the university after
high school, but it was more thesocial aspects.
I went one year to juniorcollege and I went three years
up in Flagstaff, Arizona,Northern Arizona University,
(06:56):
where I joined a fraternity.
And it was all about the socialaspect of it.
And I really didn't understandthe benefit and value of
education until I started myprofessional career.
So by the time I became alieutenant, I said, you know, I
(07:18):
hadn't finished my bachelor'sdegree.
I said, I need to go get thatdone.
And if I want to do anythingelse besides being a lieutenant
or captain, because above that,you really need to have a
degree.
So I went back and I was workingfull time and I went back and
got my degree.
And then I said, well, might aswell continue.
And I was enjoying it, actually,because a lot of people on the
(07:42):
department went through what wecall cohorts.
Well, it was other departmentmembers going through.
And so it's all cops goingthrough this educational
process.
So all the discussion was fromthe viewpoint of cops.
I didn't do that purposely.
I chose not to do that.
And so I went just signing uplike any other person would do
(08:02):
and went into the program.
And then the people in the classfind out what I did, and boy,
that caused a lot of greatconversation.
But the nice part about that wasI think that prepared me for
community meetings.
And because I would hear whatthe issues and concerns are and
the feelings people would have,and I would get a chance to
(08:24):
present back my views of what'sgoing on and what i feel the
police were doing and why policedid what they did yeah they
didn't always agree and i didn'talways agree with them but we
had good civil discourse abouttopics that were important and i
think that as much as just thebook work and the testing was
probably more influential aspectof my education than the formal
(08:48):
education aspect was and so idid that both through my
bachelor's and then i continuedon to get my master's while I
was still in the school, youknow, school attendance mode.
And so I did stop before I said,I can't do a doctorate.
I just, the idea of doing adoctorate, although sometimes I
(09:09):
look back with regret, but theidea at that time of doing a
doctorate, at that point, I wasalready assistant chief when I
got my master's.
And I said, I can't do this joband continue to be a doctorate.
We're talking to RobertoVelasenor, and he met him when
he was chief of the TucsonPolice Department, and he was a
(09:31):
member of President Obama's TaskForce on 21st Century Policing.
And how did you decide, or whatinfluenced you to become a
police officer?
Actually, one of my biggestinfluences was my brother.
My brother had become a policeofficer in 1976.
SPEAKER_00 (09:51):
And
SPEAKER_01 (09:52):
I went on a couple ride-a-longs with him.
I watched him.
I watched what was going on.
We talked about the job.
And, you know, my dad alwayswanted both of us to go into the
shoe repair business.
From the time I was 10 years oldon, and Augie, that's my
brother, when he was 10, alsowent to the shop every Saturday,
some days after school, duringthe summer he worked there.
(10:13):
And our dad so wanted us to takeover the business, his two sons.
Neither one of us wanted to takeover the sugar bear business.
He was having a great time as acop.
I looked at that and I said, youknow, that really intrigued me
because it also instilled someof the same issues of sports.
It was team oriented.
It was goal oriented, dealingwith problems, dealing with
(10:34):
issues and forming bonds andcamaraderie that really appealed
to me.
So that probably was probablythe greatest influence for me to
become a police officer.
And he helped me greatly throughthe testing process.
The first time I took a test,they failed me for the
(10:55):
psychological portion.
And so my brother went to thehuman resource and said, you
know, you need to understand,this is what this kid's been
going through, all the stressit's had there.
He's got what you need, butright now you hit him at a bad
time.
So they agreed to give me asecond test.
um for the next class and ipassed and i went in i explained
(11:20):
you know yes i was i i'm notmaking excuses but it did affect
me i see that now but this isthe way i feel and so they
passed me on and um but sincethen i've never completely
trusted psychological evilsbecause i know they're not
without you know fail or they'renot infallible But he really
(11:41):
helped a lot.
And then when I got in, it wasthe best decision of my life.
It's exactly what I wanted.
Developed deep friendships, hadthe fulfillment.
And the nice part is Tucson's abig enough agency that every two
or three years, if you wantedto, you could find something
else to do.
You apply yourself.
And so I was able to do that andhad a very blessed career and
(12:03):
did just about everything youcan do as a police officer.
And I really enjoyed it.
Is that something you wouldrecommend to people going into
law enforcement to be able tohave that ability to move
laterally across differentaspects of the department?
Well, if they're in a largeagency, yes.
The problem is that the majorityof police are in much smaller
(12:25):
agencies and it doesn't offerthat flexibility.
One of my sons was trying tobecome a police officer and The
issues then were just startingto develop.
They are now.
He ended up not doing it.
(12:46):
And he's now very successful.
He went on to become a generalmanager of a car dealership and
now sells constructionequipment.
And all my children are verysuccessful.
But I don't know.
At this point, police work is sodifficult for police officers.
I would never tell someone notto.
(13:08):
to be a police officer.
I still think it's a nobleprofession, a noble calling, but
it has to be a calling in myperspective to go into the
police world and suffer whatpolice are suffering nowadays.
The thing is that we werenoticing this as I was chief, I
was starting, and now since myconsulting work since I retired,
(13:30):
for the past 10 years, everyagency complains about that.
It seems like The new generationmostly wants to be there for
three, four, five years and moveon to something else.
And so it's real difficult tobuild the things that we say we
want to build for communitypolicing and officers that know
(13:51):
their community, theirresidents, their business
people.
If their viewpoint is, I'm justgoing to be here for three years
and then go.
So it really has to be acalling, I think, for anyone who
wants to go into police work.
So speaking, In the context ofwhere you've come from and what
your profession is, you're apartner, correct, in 21CP, which
(14:15):
is, I often refer to 21CP as therefugees from the task force and
the great work.
And in all transparency, I'vebeen a senior advisor to 21CP
and have seen your work.
You're on the boat.
That's right.
(14:36):
And I've seen the work that youand others coming out of the
policing profession have done.
How does consulting enhance orstrengthen the values that you
have expressed or lived as apolice officer?
(14:56):
I think it has strengthened itbecause it gives me the
opportunity to to present theprofession and present the ideas
that I know the professioncontains to others that have
serious doubts or antagonismagainst the profession.
And it has provided anopportunity to try and mend some
(15:22):
of the fences that have beentorn down over the past couple
of decades between police andcommunities that they serve, and
on both sides.
to go in and just speak veryfrankly to some police and say,
wait a second, you got tounderstand how this comes across
and how what we were trained in20 years ago doesn't really flow
(15:45):
with society today.
On the other hand, I've alsogone into community and said,
you need to understand thepressures that police are under
and the attacks that they'reunder and why they act the way
they do.
Because you're looking at itfrom an area where, you know,
people say, well, why do theyhave to come across so
aggressive?
And you don't have to comeacross aggressive, but you have
(16:05):
to be suspicious.
If you're not suspicious, you'renot going to be a good police
officer.
That's just, in my opinion, thebasis of it.
You have to wonder about things.
If you take everything carteblanche and add its face value,
you're going to be fooled a lotof times and you're going to
miss out on a lot of stuffthat's going on that really is
evil.
And so I think that it really...
(16:26):
It helps me to try and get bothsides to understand a little bit
more of the other side.
And the fact that I get to goaround and talk to so many
people on both sides of thefence, that I can hear all these
ideas, try and meld themtogether and put out something
that's a little bit moreacceptable to everyone.
(16:47):
You use the word suspicious.
I worked on a project recently.
I've always maintained,especially after the murder of
George Floyd, that everybody wastalking about reimagining
policing.
And it struck me, in fact, itwas quoted in the New York Times
(17:11):
as saying that The trouble withreimagining policing today is
there's very little imaginationin terms of what a department
would look like and that wesometimes recycle certain kinds
of events.
And in that, I interviewed anumber of people about
reimagining or imagining whatpolicing would look like.
(17:35):
And one of the things that cameout of that was the use of the
word curiosity and And I wonderwhat the difference, I mean,
police officers and especiallypolice leadership, having
curiosity about how things work,about what the community looks
like, is an asset or a strength.
(17:57):
And that may be similar tosuspicious, being suspicious.
Any thoughts on that?
I think curiosity is a greatquality for a police officer to
have, but I do not see it as thesame as suspicion.
Okay.
Because suspicion carries withit, with a sense of distrust or
face value items, which is allpeople lie to police all the
(18:21):
time.
SPEAKER_00 (18:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:23):
And curiosity is, doesn't have that value behind
it.
Curiosity has a desire to learnthe truth.
I get that.
But without the bias of, okay,but did people lie to me?
And people do lie.
And see, so that's where I finda little bit different to that.
I think curiosity is a greatquality for a police officer
(18:44):
because they need to act on it.
They need to say, okay, and notonly just for the bad things,
but say, what if we did this?
I wonder if that would makethings better.
I wonder if we approach someonethis way, would that make things
better?
That's a curiosity to me that Ithink can be beneficial.
But when you're at the scene andeveryone's angry, screaming,
yelling, you're breaking apartfights and stuff, everyone's
(19:07):
going to try and put their sideacross with the grave of the
righteousness.
And probably the truth liessomewhere in between that.
So you have to be suspicious ofwhat you're told because you
cannot take it at face value.
So given especially your faithcommitment and what you've said
(19:30):
about suspicious, and I don'tdispute that at all, what I am
also curious about is being apolice officer, what is it, how
has it impacted your capacity totrust and to trust community
members, to trust colleagues?
Trust is a, I mean, if Iremember correctly, trust was a
(19:54):
huge part of the task forcereport.
Right.
And how do we build trust ifyou're also suspicious?
Because suspicions can beovercome.
But my trust was damaged a lotas a police officer because I
(20:14):
found myself lied to many times.
You know, one of the mosttelling episodes I had as a
young police officer is Istopped this woman for driving
wrong way on the road.
She was coming straight atpeople head on.
So I put my car between hers andothers, pulled her over, and she
was drunk as to be.
(20:36):
Got her out and performed allfifth sobriety tests, arrested
her for DUI.
She was just sobbing and crying.
And I felt terrible.
She was very nice.
She was crying.
And I'm so sorry.
I made mistakes.
I should have done this.
I should have done that.
Took her back to the station torun the breathalyzer.
(20:57):
At that time, we didn't havemobile ones in the cars.
And so took her back and didthat.
And she blew an enormously highblood alcohol content.
And so, but I said, don't worry,don't worry.
It's just, I'm going to give youa citation.
We'll have someone come pick youup.
You'll be going home tonight.
Don't be worried about that.
But she was very distraught.
But one of our routine practiceswas I was, oh, I have to do my
(21:20):
records check.
So I go back and do a recordscheck on her.
And there were two felonywarrants for very serious crimes
on her, and I confirmed it, andwho she was, by ID, all the
information I had.
I went back to her and I said,you didn't tell me about this,
and there's more felonies likethat.
(21:42):
Teardrops stopped, and she said,well, I took a shot.
And that was just such animportant lesson to me because
my human nature and probablymaybe my faith-based nature was
to try and cut a break, try andhelp this person out.
Everyone makes mistakes.
People have a right to makemistakes and come back for that.
(22:04):
But then that taught me that noteveryone out there, you know,
the old adage, a wolf in sheep'sclothing.
Sometimes people can confuse youand they can conceal their true
identity.
your actions that make you feelas if they're sincere, but when
they're not.
And that wasn't the only time,but lessons like that damage
(22:25):
your ability to trust.
But where the problems came in,and what we talked a lot about
in the task force, is you haveto be able to separate the
specific from the general.
We have distrust of certainindividuals based upon their
actions and what we find out.
(22:45):
But that shouldn't spill over todistrust of every single person
you come into contact with.
Give them a chance at first.
Their story could be legit.
So that old trust but verifything, very important.
And also to approach it from theviewpoint of, if I go in there
saying, I don't trust you, Idon't trust you, I don't trust
(23:05):
you, you're not going to believeanything the community says.
that's not conducive to any typeof good relationship.
You gotta listen to what thecommunity is saying.
Play it back, because I mean, ifyou're not defensive and you're
honest about things, some ofthese things the community's
complaining about, I can clearlysee happening.
And that may be a thing whereyou have to go now, okay, well,
(23:29):
we need to investigate this.
We need to look into this.
But it is something that youhave to really practice that and
struggle with as a policeofficer, I think, because of the
way the job bends you.
Particularly in your role as achief, I know, again, after
George Floyd, we started orlaunched a project called Act
(23:52):
Now, which was funded by JoyceFoundation, Stand Together, and
Walmart.
And over the last three years,we've talked to over 20,000
community people, people thatare not normally invited to the
table when reform issues arediscussed or there's a problem
in the community.
We went door to door,neighborhood to neighborhood.
(24:13):
And then we talked to over 1,200line officers.
And the thing that we did inthat process was we listened.
We set up listening sessions.
And we didn't come in with aprescription or with 10
recommendations to do this orthat.
And we're about to release areport to the nation based on
(24:35):
the listening.
And that happened.
in your consulting role comingout of a leadership role of a
department um is listeningimportant to you it is because
it gets you inside the doorthere and listen to it and i
don't know if you remember thisyou gave me one of my best
compliments in my consultingcareer i forget which project we
(24:57):
were on but we were dealing withunion members of this agency
it's a mid-sized agency And sowe had gone in there, and we
were talking.
They were complaining about thisand that, complaining about
that.
So I let them roll on for awhile and listen.
But then I came back at them,and I shot down a lot of their
arguments and said, but you'vegot to understand, the world has
(25:18):
changed from when you started.
Because these are uni guys.
Most of them are a little bitmore senior and tenured.
Right.
Go back to remember how thingswere.
And I'd say, you're in afishbowl in today's world.
And I believe this was after theFloyd murder.
And so I said, you cannot dothose type of things.
Those are not right.
You need to look at it how thepublic sees you.
(25:40):
And look at that.
And I convinced them.
They got around, yeah, okay,maybe we could look at some
other things and do thingsdifferently.
Afterward, you said to me, Tess,I love the way that you speak
truth to power.
And I said, wow, that's reallynice.
Because sometimes if you listento what their issues are, But
then you come back at them withtruth about, but this is the way
(26:02):
the world is and the situationit's in.
You can make converts.
Yeah, that's right.
So that, to me, is veryimportant in that people have to
feel they're listened to if youwant any chance for them to
listen to you and to hear yourviewpoints and maybe change
their way of thinking.
Yes.
(26:22):
You know, that was extremelyimportant for me, and I would go
out as often as I could and talkto the troops and go– you know,
to briefing or just actually Ieven call some meetings
sometimes where I brought in adivision and just talked and
listened, let them say theircomplaints.
A lot of times when I tell them,okay, well, this is why we did
(26:45):
this.
This is why we did that.
Oh, well, okay.
We didn't know.
SPEAKER_00 (26:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:51):
Yeah.
I know you didn't know, but Idon't tell you every single
thing, but this helps youunderstand it.
Yeah.
Well, it was interesting in thisprocess of these listening
sessions with rank and fileofficers and community people,
the listening process portion,particularly of the rank and
file officers, turned out to beone of the more positive,
(27:11):
encouraging things I'veexperienced in my role of
working with police.
And it covered the wholedemographic in terms of age, et
cetera, and the wisdom of theirexperience and what policing
needs to look like going forwardin a changing environment.
(27:33):
It was very instructive, andhopefully it gets capitalized in
our report to the nation.
I look forward to reading yourreport.
So how many children do youhave?
I have four children and sixgrandchildren.
Six grandchildren.
Well, I have eight and 24grandkids.
You have a ways to go, brother.
I don't think I'm ever going toreach that.
(27:55):
So when you think about yourchildren, your grandchildren,
what is it that you want totransmit to them?
in terms of the values that haveshaped you and the values that
you want them to capture fromyour life?
I want faith to play a moreimportant role in their lives.
Mine came about, I can't giveyou, like you asked me earlier,
(28:17):
what was the thing that drew youto it?
I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_00 (28:19):
All
SPEAKER_01 (28:21):
I know is that I wanted to read the Bible, and I
read the Bible, but I didn'thave anyone directly say you
should do this.
But one of the memories I dohave is that my dad, had this
little altar in his bedroom.
It was a wrought iron cornerpiece altar, and on it was
traditional, I view it as verycommon in Mexican, Hispanic
(28:45):
households.
It was like a three-foot tallstatue of Jesus, the robe of the
bird of heart, and then theVerde de Guadalupe on one side,
and I forget what else theother.
And he would go in there atnight, every night, his arms on
each side of the wall and hewould bow his head and pray he
didn't really you knowproselytize us and talk to us
(29:07):
about faith or anything but thatwas impactful to me okay well
there's relationship there iwant to give that relationship
to my children and grandchildreni think that we have because my
children all attend church withme we all go the three of my
children go to the same churchas us one of them goes to a
different church but we go tothat church every once in a
(29:29):
while.
And my grandchildren go theretoo.
And for them, it is an importantaspect of their lives today.
And so that's what I want toinstill to them, because they're
going to need an anchor in thisworld, because I see for quite a
while, things aren't going to bebetter.
They need a place where they cango to for strength and support.
(29:51):
That's a good point.
So Taz, what makes you laugh?
Oh, just about everything.
I got a great sense of humor andfrustration myself.
I can fight humor andeverything, sometimes
irreverent.
But I can't say there's onecertain thing that makes me
laugh because I'm surprised bythe things that I will laugh at.
(30:16):
Right now, my big kick is onsocial media.
There's this app out there thatmakes babies laugh.
talk or impersonate politicalfigures and they make me roar
with laughter when you see thisbaby impersonating people that
you recognize on the politicaltheater out there and the
manners and the voices and Ijust think that's hilarious but
(30:39):
I thank God I've gotten awayfrom the crude humor that I used
to enjoy and now I'm thinking alittle bit more And I feel a lot
of old age jokes throw in therenow, too, that make a lot more
sense to me now than they did 30years ago.
Yeah, that's right.
And I find those funny as well.
(30:59):
But I find humor in a lot ofthings in life.
Well, we're talking with RobertoVillasenor and former chief of
police in Tucson, a partner in21CP.
But you are also a photographer.
I am.
Well, I kind of think I am forsome reason.
I've seen your work, and whenyou post them on Facebook, and
(31:22):
I've used your work.
In fact, my most recent bookthat I did while being treated
for prostate cancer calledMeditations and Radiation, I saw
one of Taz's photographs that hetakes of...
celestial photography.
(31:42):
And it reminded me just of thepower of radiation in the
universe.
And I wound up using that forthe cover of my book.
What got you interested inphotography?
Especially that kind ofphotography.
Well, my second son started thiswhen he was in third grade.
And they were going through anastronomy phase.
So we bought him a telescope.
(32:03):
And I bought one that, I thinkit was Toys R Us or something.
It's magnified 500 times.
Piece of junk.
And we tried everything we couldto make it so we could see
things, and you could see maybea few things on the moon,
nothing.
So I'm driving it by there, ordriving it back to the store,
turning it, and there's thisastronomy shop called Star
Izona, which is a worldwidecompany now.
(32:26):
It's really, really well-knownin the astronomy world, and it's
based in Tucson.
So we pulled in there and I metthe owner and talked to him and
explained, yeah, you don't wantsomething like that.
Let me show you a good scopethat's a starter scope about the
same price.
So we ended up picking the olderone back and buying that.
And I became hooked.
We started seeing things.
Then my son didn't want to do itanymore.
(32:47):
And I, no, dad, it's all right.
And so I kept going and I just,I kept going to larger scopes
and larger scopes.
And then I tried, when we usedto do film photography, that was
difficult.
Days when you had to sit thereat the scope with a little
gyroscope and guide the scope,make sure it's on target for an
hour at a time.
(33:08):
Exhausting.
And it's just what technologyhas developed where you can do
almost everything automated now.
And the things that you can seeon a camera lens that naked eye
will just see as a gray blob upthere.
And then when you develop it,you take a picture and all of
these colors come forth and allthese gas and wisps of gas and
(33:30):
everything.
I find that is a true sign ofthe work of God and God's
advocates in every way.
And that's creation.
I just love it.
And the thing is, I can take apicture, process it this time,
and then six months from now,same picture, same amount of
(33:50):
data, because I'm talking hoursof data.
It's not just one picture.
It's like 500 images of the sameobject, each one a couple
minutes long.
And then I stack them togetherand process them, and they'll
come out different.
But the colors are all there.
It's just the processingtechniques I'm having to bring
out certain colors.
(34:11):
So I love it.
Yeah, with the web technologyand your pictures, I look at
those of the universe and go...
I don't think we could possiblybe alone here.
It makes you wonder, doesn't it?
Yes, very humbling.
I don't know the answer to that,but also I find it very hard
(34:34):
that all of this came fromnothing.
Right, yeah.
Exactly.
Nothing doesn't create anything.
Yeah.
We're coming to a close here,but I always like to ask this
question.
I don't know if you've ever seenthe movie Leap Year, which is a
romantic comedy.
And it takes place in Ireland.
(34:58):
And a suitor, in pursuit of thiswoman who had come to Ireland
thinking she was going to getmarried during Leap Year, he
asked the question...
If your house were to catch onfire, besides your family and
your pets, what's the one thingyou would grab that means the
(35:23):
most to you to be sure you gotout of the house?
I use this.
My father gave me, he was aWorld War II veteran and was
wounded.
And he has the medical box thatthey treated him with.
on board ship.
And he gave me that.
And inside that box, I keepthings that mean a lot to me.
(35:47):
I mean, when I attended Harvardin postdoctoral work, I kept my
admissions card.
I kept my football letter that Ihad in high school.
Things that just were seminal tome and important.
I keep it in that.
And that's probably what I wouldgrab.
But What would you grab?
(36:09):
What's the one thing you mightgrab out of your house that
would symbolize who you are andhelp define who you've been?
I really don't know if I have ananswer to that, Jim.
If I had my family out, my dogout, I don't think there's
(36:31):
anything that I'm going to riskmy life for to go back into the
house for.
If you're going to push me onand say, what is one thing?
There's this one picture of myfamily in the backyard.
Every member of my family is inthat picture with the beautiful
mountain behind it andeverything.
(36:52):
That's very important to me.
I would probably grab thatbecause I don't know if I can
duplicate that.
But other than that, there's notmuch of anything that I would
say, nope, I got the importantstuff out and let it go.
I don't want to risk that.
I go back to, I think of thatshow, This Is Us.
(37:13):
Yeah.
And the father goes back.
Now, he went in to save people,his family, but then he ends up
dying because of smokeexhaustion.
I'm not going to die because ofsmoke exhaustion for any
material possession.
As long as I got my family out,I'm good.
Yeah.
Taz, you're a good man, and Iappreciate you taking the time
to talk about with us you knowlegacy project we've talked to
(37:36):
political leaders uh the womanwho cut my hair for 25 years
when I lived in Washington, D.C.
We interviewed her.
We are talking to all kinds ofindividuals, all kinds of
backgrounds.
And it's fascinating to see whathas influenced them, what has
shaped them, what guides theirdecisions, and the kind of
(37:57):
legacy they want to create.
And we're starting to talk toyoung people, particularly
about...
That's right.
You are a leader in that area.
But we're talking to youngpeople about the legacy they
want to create.
And it's interesting because ayoung person isn't really
thinking about their legacy.
But if you intentionally beginto think about it, it can
(38:21):
influence decisions and choicesabout how you live your life.
Well, thanks, Taz, for thisconversation.
Really appreciate it.
And we'll be in touch.
All right.
Thank you very much, Jim.
Take care.
Be well.
To find out more informationabout this conversation and
other Legacy Podcast episodes,go to servantforge.org.
(38:43):
Please subscribe to us on yourfavorite podcast app and
consider leaving us a review.
The podcast was produced by MattErickson, music by David Hyde.
Please look for a new episode onour podcast coming out soon.
Remember, you have inherited agreat legacy.
You have an opportunity tocreate a great legacy.
(39:06):
Engage your past to build yourfuture.
music
SPEAKER_01 (00:04):
Welcome to The Legacy Project.
Today, we're talking to RobertoValencior.
He goes by Taz.
I've known Taz for the last 10years, worked with him as a
facilitator of a task force onPresident Obama's Task Force on
21st Century Policing.
Got to know him well and enjoyedhis professional work and call
(00:24):
him a friend.
The Legacy Project is aboutunderstanding the influences
that have shaped us and at thesame time, exploring the legacy
we want to create and the legacywe want to be known by.
So, Taz, where were you born?
Where are you from?
Oh, I'm born, bred, raised inTucson, Arizona, and I have deep
(00:48):
ties to the community.
On my mom's side, we go backfive generations to southern
Arizona.
There were ranchers here in theSonoyta, Patagonia area.
And on my dad's side, mygrandfather...
immigrated across as a cobbler,shoe repairman.
He and my father were both shoerepairmen.
I was raised in a shoe repairshop.
(01:10):
And we've been established inTucson now for at least five
generations.
Wow.
That's significant.
There are not many people thatcan say that kind of lineage for
that long of a period of time.
Correct.
Yeah, that's great.
As a child growing up, who arethe big influences in your life?
Who helps shape who you are,your values, the things that
(01:33):
have really defined who you are?
Well, there are several issues.
Obviously, my parents, both mymom and dad.
And they brought me up in a veryclose-knit family.
Every Sunday, we would go overto my grandmother's house on my
dad's side or go over to mymom's parents.
(01:53):
And a lot of familyget-togethers, a lot of family
parties and dinners and meals.
And so that shaped me a lot.
But then I have to say thatsports really had an influence
on me, playing football andwrestling and sports.
chocolate and discus.
(02:14):
And so I've always liked a sportmentality, a teamwork mentality,
a lot of effort to achieve whatyou want to achieve.
But then I have to really saythat over the years, faith has
been a very big influence forme.
Growing up, being raised as aRoman Catholic, I read the
(02:39):
entire one of the most bigfamily Bibles, and from the time
I was about 12, 13 years old, Iwould read a little bit every
night, and I read through thatwhole Bible, and I have since
become non-denominationalChristian for a variety of
reasons, but I noticed rightaway that the Maccabees are not
(03:01):
in a non-Catholic Bible, and sothat kind of changed things, but
So my faith, you know, catechismand going through that.
And then since then, therelationship I've developed with
Jesus Christ and God, I thinkit's been a huge influence for
me.
(03:21):
So was that an expectation inyour family?
At what point did it reallybecome your own?
Oh, like I said, probably 12 or13.
I kind of, I think, suppressedmy family.
Because if you were to say,every family has a black sheep,
that was probably me.
My sister was very strong-willedand rebellious.
(03:45):
She was probably second inrunning for it, but she just
didn't like being under controlof my father, and so soon she
turned 18.
She left the college and nevercame back.
My brother was like everyparent's dream.
He was my older brother.
He was a letterman in sports andbaseball, and He was homecoming,
(04:07):
court, and all that.
And I was not any of thosethings.
I got into trouble some when Iwas young and did things I
shouldn't have done.
And so I think it really shockedthem when they would see me
reading the Bible at night.
And they even said sometimes inmy sleep I would be mumbling
(04:27):
things, and it sounded to themlike Bible verses.
And I'm sure that's becauseright before I went to bed, I
was reading.
Yeah.
the Bible and stuff.
So I can't say that anyone drewme in or brought me in other
than just the motivation I hadmyself.
So how did that faith or thediscipline you took really to
(04:47):
read through the scriptures, howdid that influence decisions
that you made or choices thatyou made?
How present was that in thatprocess?
I tried to do everything forwhat I consider to be a sound
fair basis.
And I also really need toemphasize, while I say that
(05:09):
faith had a great influence onme, I definitely had issues of
not being obedient to what myfaith said how I should act.
I was rebellious, I was acharacter, and so you don't get
a nickname like Taz withouthaving some issues there in the
(05:31):
background.
But I think that it instilled inme a genuine belief in doing
things by other people that areright.
To treat people fairly, to beconscious of their feelings, to
understand how they may perceivethings, and try and see if that
(05:53):
perception is something I canmeld with.
If it's not, it's not.
But at least I don't have to bedisrespectful to them.
To what extent, in terms of yourdevelopment, did education play
a role for you?
Originally, very little.
(06:14):
School didn't interest me atall.
I went through it, and I kept mygrades to an average grade
level, even though I testedprobably could have been an
advanced education.
My parents couldn't afford itand didn't feel the need there.
But I was bored in school.
And I did just enough to get C'sso I could play sports.
(06:35):
Yeah, I was going to say toqualify for sports.
But then once I got into myprofessional life, it wasn't
until I really became, you know,I went to the university after
high school, but it was more thesocial aspects.
I went one year to juniorcollege and I went three years
up in Flagstaff, Arizona,Northern Arizona University,
(06:56):
where I joined a fraternity.
And it was all about the socialaspect of it.
And I really didn't understandthe benefit and value of
education until I started myprofessional career.
So by the time I became alieutenant, I said, you know, I
(07:18):
hadn't finished my bachelor'sdegree.
I said, I need to go get thatdone.
And if I want to do anythingelse besides being a lieutenant
or captain, because above that,you really need to have a
degree.
So I went back and I was workingfull time and I went back and
got my degree.
And then I said, well, might aswell continue.
And I was enjoying it, actually,because a lot of people on the
(07:42):
department went through what wecall cohorts.
Well, it was other departmentmembers going through.
And so it's all cops goingthrough this educational
process.
So all the discussion was fromthe viewpoint of cops.
I didn't do that purposely.
I chose not to do that.
And so I went just signing uplike any other person would do
(08:02):
and went into the program.
And then the people in the classfind out what I did, and boy,
that caused a lot of greatconversation.
But the nice part about that wasI think that prepared me for
community meetings.
And because I would hear whatthe issues and concerns are and
the feelings people would have,and I would get a chance to
(08:24):
present back my views of what'sgoing on and what i feel the
police were doing and why policedid what they did yeah they
didn't always agree and i didn'talways agree with them but we
had good civil discourse abouttopics that were important and i
think that as much as just thebook work and the testing was
probably more influential aspectof my education than the formal
(08:48):
education aspect was and so idid that both through my
bachelor's and then i continuedon to get my master's while I
was still in the school, youknow, school attendance mode.
And so I did stop before I said,I can't do a doctorate.
I just, the idea of doing adoctorate, although sometimes I
(09:09):
look back with regret, but theidea at that time of doing a
doctorate, at that point, I wasalready assistant chief when I
got my master's.
And I said, I can't do this joband continue to be a doctorate.
We're talking to RobertoVelasenor, and he met him when
he was chief of the TucsonPolice Department, and he was a
(09:31):
member of President Obama's TaskForce on 21st Century Policing.
And how did you decide, or whatinfluenced you to become a
police officer?
Actually, one of my biggestinfluences was my brother.
My brother had become a policeofficer in 1976.
SPEAKER_00 (09:51):
And
SPEAKER_01 (09:52):
I went on a couple ride-a-longs with him.
I watched him.
I watched what was going on.
We talked about the job.
And, you know, my dad alwayswanted both of us to go into the
shoe repair business.
From the time I was 10 years oldon, and Augie, that's my
brother, when he was 10, alsowent to the shop every Saturday,
some days after school, duringthe summer he worked there.
(10:13):
And our dad so wanted us to takeover the business, his two sons.
Neither one of us wanted to takeover the sugar bear business.
He was having a great time as acop.
I looked at that and I said, youknow, that really intrigued me
because it also instilled someof the same issues of sports.
It was team oriented.
It was goal oriented, dealingwith problems, dealing with
(10:34):
issues and forming bonds andcamaraderie that really appealed
to me.
So that probably was probablythe greatest influence for me to
become a police officer.
And he helped me greatly throughthe testing process.
The first time I took a test,they failed me for the
(10:55):
psychological portion.
And so my brother went to thehuman resource and said, you
know, you need to understand,this is what this kid's been
going through, all the stressit's had there.
He's got what you need, butright now you hit him at a bad
time.
So they agreed to give me asecond test.
um for the next class and ipassed and i went in i explained
(11:20):
you know yes i was i i'm notmaking excuses but it did affect
me i see that now but this isthe way i feel and so they
passed me on and um but sincethen i've never completely
trusted psychological evilsbecause i know they're not
without you know fail or they'renot infallible But he really
(11:41):
helped a lot.
And then when I got in, it wasthe best decision of my life.
It's exactly what I wanted.
Developed deep friendships, hadthe fulfillment.
And the nice part is Tucson's abig enough agency that every two
or three years, if you wantedto, you could find something
else to do.
You apply yourself.
And so I was able to do that andhad a very blessed career and
(12:03):
did just about everything youcan do as a police officer.
And I really enjoyed it.
Is that something you wouldrecommend to people going into
law enforcement to be able tohave that ability to move
laterally across differentaspects of the department?
Well, if they're in a largeagency, yes.
The problem is that the majorityof police are in much smaller
(12:25):
agencies and it doesn't offerthat flexibility.
One of my sons was trying tobecome a police officer and The
issues then were just startingto develop.
They are now.
He ended up not doing it.
(12:46):
And he's now very successful.
He went on to become a generalmanager of a car dealership and
now sells constructionequipment.
And all my children are verysuccessful.
But I don't know.
At this point, police work is sodifficult for police officers.
I would never tell someone notto.
(13:08):
to be a police officer.
I still think it's a nobleprofession, a noble calling, but
it has to be a calling in myperspective to go into the
police world and suffer whatpolice are suffering nowadays.
The thing is that we werenoticing this as I was chief, I
was starting, and now since myconsulting work since I retired,
(13:30):
for the past 10 years, everyagency complains about that.
It seems like The new generationmostly wants to be there for
three, four, five years and moveon to something else.
And so it's real difficult tobuild the things that we say we
want to build for communitypolicing and officers that know
(13:51):
their community, theirresidents, their business
people.
If their viewpoint is, I'm justgoing to be here for three years
and then go.
So it really has to be acalling, I think, for anyone who
wants to go into police work.
So speaking, In the context ofwhere you've come from and what
your profession is, you're apartner, correct, in 21CP, which
(14:15):
is, I often refer to 21CP as therefugees from the task force and
the great work.
And in all transparency, I'vebeen a senior advisor to 21CP
and have seen your work.
You're on the boat.
That's right.
(14:36):
And I've seen the work that youand others coming out of the
policing profession have done.
How does consulting enhance orstrengthen the values that you
have expressed or lived as apolice officer?
(14:56):
I think it has strengthened itbecause it gives me the
opportunity to to present theprofession and present the ideas
that I know the professioncontains to others that have
serious doubts or antagonismagainst the profession.
And it has provided anopportunity to try and mend some
(15:22):
of the fences that have beentorn down over the past couple
of decades between police andcommunities that they serve, and
on both sides.
to go in and just speak veryfrankly to some police and say,
wait a second, you got tounderstand how this comes across
and how what we were trained in20 years ago doesn't really flow
(15:45):
with society today.
On the other hand, I've alsogone into community and said,
you need to understand thepressures that police are under
and the attacks that they'reunder and why they act the way
they do.
Because you're looking at itfrom an area where, you know,
people say, well, why do theyhave to come across so
aggressive?
And you don't have to comeacross aggressive, but you have
(16:05):
to be suspicious.
If you're not suspicious, you'renot going to be a good police
officer.
That's just, in my opinion, thebasis of it.
You have to wonder about things.
If you take everything carteblanche and add its face value,
you're going to be fooled a lotof times and you're going to
miss out on a lot of stuffthat's going on that really is
evil.
And so I think that it really...
(16:26):
It helps me to try and get bothsides to understand a little bit
more of the other side.
And the fact that I get to goaround and talk to so many
people on both sides of thefence, that I can hear all these
ideas, try and meld themtogether and put out something
that's a little bit moreacceptable to everyone.
(16:47):
You use the word suspicious.
I worked on a project recently.
I've always maintained,especially after the murder of
George Floyd, that everybody wastalking about reimagining
policing.
And it struck me, in fact, itwas quoted in the New York Times
(17:11):
as saying that The trouble withreimagining policing today is
there's very little imaginationin terms of what a department
would look like and that wesometimes recycle certain kinds
of events.
And in that, I interviewed anumber of people about
reimagining or imagining whatpolicing would look like.
(17:35):
And one of the things that cameout of that was the use of the
word curiosity and And I wonderwhat the difference, I mean,
police officers and especiallypolice leadership, having
curiosity about how things work,about what the community looks
like, is an asset or a strength.
(17:57):
And that may be similar tosuspicious, being suspicious.
Any thoughts on that?
I think curiosity is a greatquality for a police officer to
have, but I do not see it as thesame as suspicion.
Okay.
Because suspicion carries withit, with a sense of distrust or
face value items, which is allpeople lie to police all the
(18:21):
time.
SPEAKER_00 (18:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:23):
And curiosity is, doesn't have that value behind
it.
Curiosity has a desire to learnthe truth.
I get that.
But without the bias of, okay,but did people lie to me?
And people do lie.
And see, so that's where I finda little bit different to that.
I think curiosity is a greatquality for a police officer
(18:44):
because they need to act on it.
They need to say, okay, and notonly just for the bad things,
but say, what if we did this?
I wonder if that would makethings better.
I wonder if we approach someonethis way, would that make things
better?
That's a curiosity to me that Ithink can be beneficial.
But when you're at the scene andeveryone's angry, screaming,
yelling, you're breaking apartfights and stuff, everyone's
(19:07):
going to try and put their sideacross with the grave of the
righteousness.
And probably the truth liessomewhere in between that.
So you have to be suspicious ofwhat you're told because you
cannot take it at face value.
So given especially your faithcommitment and what you've said
(19:30):
about suspicious, and I don'tdispute that at all, what I am
also curious about is being apolice officer, what is it, how
has it impacted your capacity totrust and to trust community
members, to trust colleagues?
Trust is a, I mean, if Iremember correctly, trust was a
(19:54):
huge part of the task forcereport.
Right.
And how do we build trust ifyou're also suspicious?
Because suspicions can beovercome.
But my trust was damaged a lotas a police officer because I
(20:14):
found myself lied to many times.
You know, one of the mosttelling episodes I had as a
young police officer is Istopped this woman for driving
wrong way on the road.
She was coming straight atpeople head on.
So I put my car between hers andothers, pulled her over, and she
was drunk as to be.
(20:36):
Got her out and performed allfifth sobriety tests, arrested
her for DUI.
She was just sobbing and crying.
And I felt terrible.
She was very nice.
She was crying.
And I'm so sorry.
I made mistakes.
I should have done this.
I should have done that.
Took her back to the station torun the breathalyzer.
(20:57):
At that time, we didn't havemobile ones in the cars.
And so took her back and didthat.
And she blew an enormously highblood alcohol content.
And so, but I said, don't worry,don't worry.
It's just, I'm going to give youa citation.
We'll have someone come pick youup.
You'll be going home tonight.
Don't be worried about that.
But she was very distraught.
But one of our routine practiceswas I was, oh, I have to do my
(21:20):
records check.
So I go back and do a recordscheck on her.
And there were two felonywarrants for very serious crimes
on her, and I confirmed it, andwho she was, by ID, all the
information I had.
I went back to her and I said,you didn't tell me about this,
and there's more felonies likethat.
(21:42):
Teardrops stopped, and she said,well, I took a shot.
And that was just such animportant lesson to me because
my human nature and probablymaybe my faith-based nature was
to try and cut a break, try andhelp this person out.
Everyone makes mistakes.
People have a right to makemistakes and come back for that.
(22:04):
But then that taught me that noteveryone out there, you know,
the old adage, a wolf in sheep'sclothing.
Sometimes people can confuse youand they can conceal their true
identity.
your actions that make you feelas if they're sincere, but when
they're not.
And that wasn't the only time,but lessons like that damage
(22:25):
your ability to trust.
But where the problems came in,and what we talked a lot about
in the task force, is you haveto be able to separate the
specific from the general.
We have distrust of certainindividuals based upon their
actions and what we find out.
(22:45):
But that shouldn't spill over todistrust of every single person
you come into contact with.
Give them a chance at first.
Their story could be legit.
So that old trust but verifything, very important.
And also to approach it from theviewpoint of, if I go in there
saying, I don't trust you, Idon't trust you, I don't trust
(23:05):
you, you're not going to believeanything the community says.
that's not conducive to any typeof good relationship.
You gotta listen to what thecommunity is saying.
Play it back, because I mean, ifyou're not defensive and you're
honest about things, some ofthese things the community's
complaining about, I can clearlysee happening.
And that may be a thing whereyou have to go now, okay, well,
(23:29):
we need to investigate this.
We need to look into this.
But it is something that youhave to really practice that and
struggle with as a policeofficer, I think, because of the
way the job bends you.
Particularly in your role as achief, I know, again, after
George Floyd, we started orlaunched a project called Act
(23:52):
Now, which was funded by JoyceFoundation, Stand Together, and
Walmart.
And over the last three years,we've talked to over 20,000
community people, people thatare not normally invited to the
table when reform issues arediscussed or there's a problem
in the community.
We went door to door,neighborhood to neighborhood.
(24:13):
And then we talked to over 1,200line officers.
And the thing that we did inthat process was we listened.
We set up listening sessions.
And we didn't come in with aprescription or with 10
recommendations to do this orthat.
And we're about to release areport to the nation based on
(24:35):
the listening.
And that happened.
in your consulting role comingout of a leadership role of a
department um is listeningimportant to you it is because
it gets you inside the doorthere and listen to it and i
don't know if you remember thisyou gave me one of my best
compliments in my consultingcareer i forget which project we
(24:57):
were on but we were dealing withunion members of this agency
it's a mid-sized agency And sowe had gone in there, and we
were talking.
They were complaining about thisand that, complaining about
that.
So I let them roll on for awhile and listen.
But then I came back at them,and I shot down a lot of their
arguments and said, but you'vegot to understand, the world has
(25:18):
changed from when you started.
Because these are uni guys.
Most of them are a little bitmore senior and tenured.
Right.
Go back to remember how thingswere.
And I'd say, you're in afishbowl in today's world.
And I believe this was after theFloyd murder.
And so I said, you cannot dothose type of things.
Those are not right.
You need to look at it how thepublic sees you.
(25:40):
And look at that.
And I convinced them.
They got around, yeah, okay,maybe we could look at some
other things and do thingsdifferently.
Afterward, you said to me, Tess,I love the way that you speak
truth to power.
And I said, wow, that's reallynice.
Because sometimes if you listento what their issues are, But
then you come back at them withtruth about, but this is the way
(26:02):
the world is and the situationit's in.
You can make converts.
Yeah, that's right.
So that, to me, is veryimportant in that people have to
feel they're listened to if youwant any chance for them to
listen to you and to hear yourviewpoints and maybe change
their way of thinking.
Yes.
(26:22):
You know, that was extremelyimportant for me, and I would go
out as often as I could and talkto the troops and go– you know,
to briefing or just actually Ieven call some meetings
sometimes where I brought in adivision and just talked and
listened, let them say theircomplaints.
A lot of times when I tell them,okay, well, this is why we did
(26:45):
this.
This is why we did that.
Oh, well, okay.
We didn't know.
SPEAKER_00 (26:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:51):
Yeah.
I know you didn't know, but Idon't tell you every single
thing, but this helps youunderstand it.
Yeah.
Well, it was interesting in thisprocess of these listening
sessions with rank and fileofficers and community people,
the listening process portion,particularly of the rank and
file officers, turned out to beone of the more positive,
(27:11):
encouraging things I'veexperienced in my role of
working with police.
And it covered the wholedemographic in terms of age, et
cetera, and the wisdom of theirexperience and what policing
needs to look like going forwardin a changing environment.
(27:33):
It was very instructive, andhopefully it gets capitalized in
our report to the nation.
I look forward to reading yourreport.
So how many children do youhave?
I have four children and sixgrandchildren.
Six grandchildren.
Well, I have eight and 24grandkids.
You have a ways to go, brother.
I don't think I'm ever going toreach that.
(27:55):
So when you think about yourchildren, your grandchildren,
what is it that you want totransmit to them?
in terms of the values that haveshaped you and the values that
you want them to capture fromyour life?
I want faith to play a moreimportant role in their lives.
Mine came about, I can't giveyou, like you asked me earlier,
(28:17):
what was the thing that drew youto it?
I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_00 (28:19):
All
SPEAKER_01 (28:21):
I know is that I wanted to read the Bible, and I
read the Bible, but I didn'thave anyone directly say you
should do this.
But one of the memories I dohave is that my dad, had this
little altar in his bedroom.
It was a wrought iron cornerpiece altar, and on it was
traditional, I view it as verycommon in Mexican, Hispanic
(28:45):
households.
It was like a three-foot tallstatue of Jesus, the robe of the
bird of heart, and then theVerde de Guadalupe on one side,
and I forget what else theother.
And he would go in there atnight, every night, his arms on
each side of the wall and hewould bow his head and pray he
didn't really you knowproselytize us and talk to us
(29:07):
about faith or anything but thatwas impactful to me okay well
there's relationship there iwant to give that relationship
to my children and grandchildreni think that we have because my
children all attend church withme we all go the three of my
children go to the same churchas us one of them goes to a
different church but we go tothat church every once in a
(29:29):
while.
And my grandchildren go theretoo.
And for them, it is an importantaspect of their lives today.
And so that's what I want toinstill to them, because they're
going to need an anchor in thisworld, because I see for quite a
while, things aren't going to bebetter.
They need a place where they cango to for strength and support.
(29:51):
That's a good point.
So Taz, what makes you laugh?
Oh, just about everything.
I got a great sense of humor andfrustration myself.
I can fight humor andeverything, sometimes
irreverent.
But I can't say there's onecertain thing that makes me
laugh because I'm surprised bythe things that I will laugh at.
(30:16):
Right now, my big kick is onsocial media.
There's this app out there thatmakes babies laugh.
talk or impersonate politicalfigures and they make me roar
with laughter when you see thisbaby impersonating people that
you recognize on the politicaltheater out there and the
manners and the voices and Ijust think that's hilarious but
(30:39):
I thank God I've gotten awayfrom the crude humor that I used
to enjoy and now I'm thinking alittle bit more And I feel a lot
of old age jokes throw in therenow, too, that make a lot more
sense to me now than they did 30years ago.
Yeah, that's right.
And I find those funny as well.
(30:59):
But I find humor in a lot ofthings in life.
Well, we're talking with RobertoVillasenor and former chief of
police in Tucson, a partner in21CP.
But you are also a photographer.
I am.
Well, I kind of think I am forsome reason.
I've seen your work, and whenyou post them on Facebook, and
(31:22):
I've used your work.
In fact, my most recent bookthat I did while being treated
for prostate cancer calledMeditations and Radiation, I saw
one of Taz's photographs that hetakes of...
celestial photography.
(31:42):
And it reminded me just of thepower of radiation in the
universe.
And I wound up using that forthe cover of my book.
What got you interested inphotography?
Especially that kind ofphotography.
Well, my second son started thiswhen he was in third grade.
And they were going through anastronomy phase.
So we bought him a telescope.
(32:03):
And I bought one that, I thinkit was Toys R Us or something.
It's magnified 500 times.
Piece of junk.
And we tried everything we couldto make it so we could see
things, and you could see maybea few things on the moon,
nothing.
So I'm driving it by there, ordriving it back to the store,
turning it, and there's thisastronomy shop called Star
Izona, which is a worldwidecompany now.
(32:26):
It's really, really well-knownin the astronomy world, and it's
based in Tucson.
So we pulled in there and I metthe owner and talked to him and
explained, yeah, you don't wantsomething like that.
Let me show you a good scopethat's a starter scope about the
same price.
So we ended up picking the olderone back and buying that.
And I became hooked.
We started seeing things.
Then my son didn't want to do itanymore.
(32:47):
And I, no, dad, it's all right.
And so I kept going and I just,I kept going to larger scopes
and larger scopes.
And then I tried, when we usedto do film photography, that was
difficult.
Days when you had to sit thereat the scope with a little
gyroscope and guide the scope,make sure it's on target for an
hour at a time.
(33:08):
Exhausting.
And it's just what technologyhas developed where you can do
almost everything automated now.
And the things that you can seeon a camera lens that naked eye
will just see as a gray blob upthere.
And then when you develop it,you take a picture and all of
these colors come forth and allthese gas and wisps of gas and
(33:30):
everything.
I find that is a true sign ofthe work of God and God's
advocates in every way.
And that's creation.
I just love it.
And the thing is, I can take apicture, process it this time,
and then six months from now,same picture, same amount of
(33:50):
data, because I'm talking hoursof data.
It's not just one picture.
It's like 500 images of the sameobject, each one a couple
minutes long.
And then I stack them togetherand process them, and they'll
come out different.
But the colors are all there.
It's just the processingtechniques I'm having to bring
out certain colors.
(34:11):
So I love it.
Yeah, with the web technologyand your pictures, I look at
those of the universe and go...
I don't think we could possiblybe alone here.
It makes you wonder, doesn't it?
Yes, very humbling.
I don't know the answer to that,but also I find it very hard
(34:34):
that all of this came fromnothing.
Right, yeah.
Exactly.
Nothing doesn't create anything.
Yeah.
We're coming to a close here,but I always like to ask this
question.
I don't know if you've ever seenthe movie Leap Year, which is a
romantic comedy.
And it takes place in Ireland.
(34:58):
And a suitor, in pursuit of thiswoman who had come to Ireland
thinking she was going to getmarried during Leap Year, he
asked the question...
If your house were to catch onfire, besides your family and
your pets, what's the one thingyou would grab that means the
(35:23):
most to you to be sure you gotout of the house?
I use this.
My father gave me, he was aWorld War II veteran and was
wounded.
And he has the medical box thatthey treated him with.
on board ship.
And he gave me that.
And inside that box, I keepthings that mean a lot to me.
(35:47):
I mean, when I attended Harvardin postdoctoral work, I kept my
admissions card.
I kept my football letter that Ihad in high school.
Things that just were seminal tome and important.
I keep it in that.
And that's probably what I wouldgrab.
But What would you grab?
(36:09):
What's the one thing you mightgrab out of your house that
would symbolize who you are andhelp define who you've been?
I really don't know if I have ananswer to that, Jim.
If I had my family out, my dogout, I don't think there's
(36:31):
anything that I'm going to riskmy life for to go back into the
house for.
If you're going to push me onand say, what is one thing?
There's this one picture of myfamily in the backyard.
Every member of my family is inthat picture with the beautiful
mountain behind it andeverything.
(36:52):
That's very important to me.
I would probably grab thatbecause I don't know if I can
duplicate that.
But other than that, there's notmuch of anything that I would
say, nope, I got the importantstuff out and let it go.
I don't want to risk that.
I go back to, I think of thatshow, This Is Us.
(37:13):
Yeah.
And the father goes back.
Now, he went in to save people,his family, but then he ends up
dying because of smokeexhaustion.
I'm not going to die because ofsmoke exhaustion for any
material possession.
As long as I got my family out,I'm good.
Yeah.
Taz, you're a good man, and Iappreciate you taking the time
to talk about with us you knowlegacy project we've talked to
(37:36):
political leaders uh the womanwho cut my hair for 25 years
when I lived in Washington, D.C.
We interviewed her.
We are talking to all kinds ofindividuals, all kinds of
backgrounds.
And it's fascinating to see whathas influenced them, what has
shaped them, what guides theirdecisions, and the kind of
(37:57):
legacy they want to create.
And we're starting to talk toyoung people, particularly
about...
That's right.
You are a leader in that area.
But we're talking to youngpeople about the legacy they
want to create.
And it's interesting because ayoung person isn't really
thinking about their legacy.
But if you intentionally beginto think about it, it can
(38:21):
influence decisions and choicesabout how you live your life.
Well, thanks, Taz, for thisconversation.
Really appreciate it.
And we'll be in touch.
All right.
Thank you very much, Jim.
Take care.
Be well.
To find out more informationabout this conversation and
other Legacy Podcast episodes,go to servantforge.org.
(38:43):
Please subscribe to us on yourfavorite podcast app and
consider leaving us a review.
The podcast was produced by MattErickson, music by David Hyde.
Please look for a new episode onour podcast coming out soon.
Remember, you have inherited agreat legacy.
You have an opportunity tocreate a great legacy.
(39:06):
Engage your past to build yourfuture.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.