Drop Your EGO and Work With Your CLIENTS.

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This dream defines, maybe, the rest of their life
and their legacy.
It defines how their familywill live.
It defines how they'll wake upand feel in the mornings.
It will define their behaviors.
This is so important.
So get your ego off and makethe promise to put the
foundation down that will givethem a solid stepping stone to

(00:21):
the next point.
Get your ego out of the way.
This is about them and it's forthem.
Bring your heart, soul andevery bit of knowledge and
education you can garner and putit into this for them, because
that's what they're paying youto do.
And do it with the rightbuilder, so that, as we go,
we're both so desperately inlove with what we're going to

(00:43):
create that it gets created andwe get to hand it over okay,
everyone, and welcome back toanother episode of level up.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
This is going to be another crapping episode today.
Uh, I'm not going to get goingabout this one because I'm back
with my good mate, adrian ramsey.
He's back for a second go.
For those that haven't heard myprevious podcast with Adrian,
adrian is a building designerfrom the Sunshine Coast, loves
his surfing, loves family anddoes land whispering.

(01:17):
So if you don't know about landwhispering, go back and listen
to our previous episode becauseit is.
I know it's definitely changedthe way I look at building
design and I definitely took alot away from that for our farm
development that we're doing atthe moment from the tips I got
from Adrian.
So the other thing Adrian doesI want to jump into it get this
podcast started.

(01:37):
Adrian also organises tours atdifferent destinations around
the world to show people anddemonstrate good architecture.
So how are you, mate?

Speaker 1 (01:48):
I'm brilliant mate, but you're looking good calendar
.
Yeah, all right, I'm having fun.
Last bit yeah, yeah, mostlystill in the ways oh yeah,
there's been a bit of a swellwindow going through, so, uh,
I've been challenging myself andscaring myself a bit and, um,
pretending I'm not my age andgetting out and chipping the go,
and that's been great funYou've got to live life that way

(02:09):
.
If you're not living life, thenit's not a lot of purpose for
working somehow, is it?
That's right, that's right.

Speaker 3 (02:15):
So mate, we've got a lot to talk about because you,
since we last spoke, you'rehosting a TV show.
Now You've got bloody worldtours, architectural tours, down
the hall.
You're a busy man and you'redesigning incredible homes.
So, yeah, tell us a little bitabout these tours that you have
down the hall.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah, 100%, in the tour space.
I've been doing this thing, forI travel a lot, so let's get
back to that.
I see education has been superimportant about how we stay
valid and also who we surroundourselves with.
And who we surround ourselveswith determines the knowledge

(02:56):
we're going to get.
You know, we've got a bunch ofexponents of that and I look at
it in the design space as beinga constant education.
There's always something moreto learn.
There's always somebody whoknows way more than we'll ever
know, and we want to take ouropportunity to get the best of
those people and bring themtogether as well.

(03:19):
And over the years, I've toldpeople about a tour that I was
doing and I remember saying toyou you know, look, I do this
thing where I go to Texas, andin Texas there's some amazing
builders, there's someincredible architects.
In particular, I go to Austinand in that I go and do some

(03:39):
music, I go and do some, youknow, like architectural stuff.
I go and I eat the barbecue andreally experience that heart of
Texas piece.
And we were talking about it.
That sounds like it's somethingthat would be special to do.
And I said, yeah, well, I dotake people on these tours with

(03:59):
me.
I'm not sure about that.
I draw pictures.
That's what I really do.
I draw pictures, I come up withdesigns, I work out people and
that I draw pictures.
That's what I really do.
I draw pictures, I come up withdesigns, I work out people and
how to make that work.
And so I've been kind ofstitching these things together
and taking a couple of architectmates or people that asked me
if they could go.
And last year I turned aroundand I talked to a tour guy who

(04:22):
he runs food tours all over theworld and his Rolodex is like
looking if anybody knows whatRolodex is His Rolodex is like
looking at chef's table.
So he's connected with the bestchefs in the world and with
that he sees food as being suchan experience.

(04:44):
And I see architecture as beingan experience.
You know, you can go and lookat a building, you can look at
it online, you can be inspiredby it, but you can't feel it
until you're in it.
And you know, I know that whenyou feel a building it changes
all the emotional parameters ofwhat's going on, how it sounds,

(05:05):
how it smells, how you approachit.
All those things change thatyou never get from a photograph.

Speaker 3 (05:10):
I feel like that, like that's, our perception of
architecture has really changed,because the word's thrown
around so willy-nilly.
Now You've got volume builders,we build architectural homes.
You've got every bloody buildersaying we do architectural
homes.
It's thrown around so much thatarchitecture.
Because we build architecturalhomes.
You've got every bloody buildersaying we do architectural
homes, everybody's doing it.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
It's thrown around so much that architecture has
almost lost a bit of age.
Oh, I think hugely.
I really do think hugely.
It's like you know, you look atbuilders and you're all locked
in as builders, and when we'relooking for a builder, we're
looking first for capability andthen we're looking for capacity
, but capability is the numberone thing we're looking for, and

(05:51):
what are they going to bring tothe project if we draw?
So, with setting up the tours,part of it was is to bring
people that have the samepassion for the same level of
wanting to understand design butalso wrapping it around great
food and great conversationnetwork and bringing that
together and then putting itinto an experiential, uh,

(06:16):
situation where it isn't asyou'd expect and where you might
grow from going and looking at,you know, the world's best 3D
printers to somebody who shapesa city, to somebody who just
creates the best granny flatthat you could ever imagine or
uses an unusual material,somebody who's an innovator,

(06:38):
amazing builders, where thebuilders are, you know, seen as
like building science and youknow you get into your people
that are like buildingbiologists, these kind of the
cutting edge of things that aresolid, being put up, performing,
happening.
There's history that we can showas well as there's new that we

(06:59):
can show.
There's a lot in it foreverybody, but it's about
creating a tight, tightcommunity.
Our tours are no more than 16people, other than for the event
pieces that we might do.
They might blow out a bitbigger, but 16 people and
they're curated, they'rehand-picked, um, we want them to
work together when they're ontour it's architecture is very

(07:19):
powerful, isn't it?

Speaker 3 (07:20):
like we uh, we've got a lot of like.
Obviously, we've got a lot ofstuff we want to get through
today, but like architecture, Idefinitely didn't understand
architecture for probably thefirst 10 to 12 years.
Okay, then we feel that, like II in my head, I wanted to build
architectural homes, but Ididn't understand what
architecture was like.
I was building plenty of homesthat had the like to had these

(07:45):
amazing facades.
The rest of the house was justa fucking box.
It was just boxes on boxes,yeah, and it obviously wasn't
until I expanded and reached outand started to well, the real
value come from us doing ourpack process and being involved
with Insolvent and meunderstanding what goes on

(08:05):
behind the scenes and why thingsare done, and like the
incredible designers andarchitects that we work with now
, like a home shouldn't just beboxes.
Like it's all about creatingshapes and spaces as the
sunlight moves around the house,it tells a story.
And like different textures andlike I've really really changed

(08:25):
.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
That's the excitement of actually creating something.
Design's a sort of a thingwhere, whether it's done well or
poorly, the cost of thebuilding is going to still be
the cost of the building and I'ma building designer the

(08:49):
building and I'm a buildingdesigner.
However, I would say that 98percent of my community is
architects.
Um, with that, the trainingthat they do, the way they're
taught to approach things, theway they look at it from an
environmental point of view solarge environment down to small
environment, about what thelegacy of it is, all these
different things.
Now, in every business there'slevels of people and how they

(09:09):
approach it.
I look at it and I go thisintimate look of how they're
going to take something, whetherit be a high-rise building or
whether it be a you know,massive convention center or
whether it be a home.
What are they going to do withthat and how is it going to

(09:29):
engage the public?
There's a fascinating book thatanybody who's really keen to
understand what the psychologyof architecture creates.
There's a book called Humanizedby Thomas Heatherwick,
heatherwick Studio.
Thomas isn't an architect, he'sEngland's probably leading
design.
He employs a few hundredarchitects.

(09:50):
What's it called Humanize?
Oh, I'll have to look it up.
Yep, in this book he talks, hebusts, he calls a few things
down in his conversation, thingsdown in his conversation.
But they have done data studies, actual data studies on grain

(10:12):
functionality around how peopleinteract with buildings, whether
it brings them joy or whetherit actually depresses them, and
what buildings and public spacesand stuff need to elevate our
community to places wherethey've got interest and joy and
they've got the adventure thathappens with great architecture.

(10:33):
You know the discovery.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
It's funny you say that because I feel like the
really good homes that we buildare an adventure and, like I say
, it's like I don't know, liketo me, there are so many homes
out there that the only way Ican describe them is stale, yeah
, but they're just playing.
They're literally just boxes onboxes.

(10:56):
White, like, just shit, like Idon't know, and it's a shame.
It's a shame because I agreewith you 100, I believe.
Now, knowing what I know, I'mjust seeing what's happening in
this world, um, and like I had,um deb, like deb in the light of
hell, I didn't want to do thison my podcast without not yet um

(11:17):
, like she was saying how, like,even, just, like everyone wants
these white, clean, cleanhouses, but white is not.
We're not meant to look whiteall day, every day.
Like white isn't meant to bestimulated, but it's meant to
have interest.
They're like it's an adventure.
But I feel like because, likeyou said before, like I'm a big
fan of education, like we allhave to educate more, like just

(11:39):
educate, educate, educate.
But so you've got builders thatdon't understand good design and
good architecture and so, likeI've said this before, I take my
job really seriously, like ifit's drawing, all the drawings,
I push my team to make thatdrawing and understand it.
Yeah, I feel so that you've gotbuilders that basically get

(12:03):
given drawings.
They then take it uponthemselves to interpret things
and substitute materials andmake changes, because it's just
them.
You haven't got the architector the designer around to have
their input.
So then you've got the builderand the area of the owner and
they're making these decisions.
But then on top of that you'vegot trades coming on site to do

(12:26):
this and say the builder oh,that's fine, why would you do
that?
Let's do it this way.
And so you've got all thesepeople putting this input in and
ultimately destroying what agood designer and architect has
put together.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
I 100% agree with this happening.
I don't actually doconstruction administration, so
I go, I've got to build it.
Why would I have a build-up andthen do construction
administration?
That's a builder's job.
So then I go all the way backto your PAC process.
I go.
If you're a builder, you'llprobably maybe understand this.

(13:03):
If you're an architect or adesigner, you will probably
understand this, especially incustom homes.
And if you're neither of thoseand you're somebody who's
embarking on a journey, pleaseunderstand this.
This is critical.
A team, just like you would ifyou were an entrepreneur in
business, just like if you're amanager in a company.

(13:29):
If you create a team to carrythe job forward from the start
and add the right people at theright times, you will get
success.
I come from the thing buildersshouldn't be designers and
designers shouldn't be builders.
Oh sorry, yep, that's my whole.
I go run down that line and Ithink there are builders who are

(13:49):
capable of being designers.
I still don't think they should, because they should be just
better builders and there'sdesigners that are probably
capable of being builders willjust go and put on a chippy felt
and come and build.
You know, put money where yourmouth is, forget about the
design.
But in a PAC process thing,what you're doing is you're

(14:11):
starting the team at the rightpoint.
Any architect or buildingdesigner, we can draw pictures
all day long without knowingwhat the latest costings, the
latest implications and all thatwill be to the process.
How are we going to get to theend without a key component?
We'll just say budget is partof a three, because it's always

(14:33):
in my ones.
How are we going to get tothere unless we have you?
So this whole thing ofinterview or tender our
documents once they're fullymade, screw down the bill to the
.
You know whoever's going to bethe cheapest.
Know how to read the documentsto bloody.
Understand whether it's all inPS and PC some of them are copy

(14:55):
built, that anyway.
Know how to do all that.
If that's your expertise, gofor your life.
But I'm not working with you,you're not working with them If
we go to the same client aboutthe same time whether it's right
at the same time or one meetingafter another.
Now we're in this positionwhere we can actually bring the
client's dream to life.

(15:16):
That's correct.
Yeah, educate them, educateeach other, bring each other on
the journey.
Your knowledge says.
Adrian mate, if you could dothis, then we could probably get
this.
We'll be able to bring thisinto a more of a price thing or
bullshit.
You're doing that.
I can't license that.
I know it looks good, but I'vegot no prior history in it.

(15:38):
We might spend another 30 grandtrying to work that out to not
still get it perfect.
Let's either spend more time inthe design or let's get on with
the design knowing that you canalter it to the way that we can
work with it comfortably.
I don't know.
I got asked recently at a talkum that I was doing so.
I was telling me talk for Idon't know a few hundred people

(16:01):
on design.
And a builder said so when arearchitects and designers going
to be responsible for the costof the building that they draw?
And I said I tell you thisnever.
And I said and they can neverbe held accountable either.
And I said do you think that'sright or wrong?
And they said, oh, it's wrongbecause we get plans and clients

(16:24):
all upset and they can't buildit for the price.
I mean, well, we can't build itfor the price.
And then they waste all thismoney and I go yeah, but where
were you and the designer in thejourney.
Oh, we got the plans once theywere all drawn, with the
engineer and with everythingelse.
Everybody's been paid on thatside and now it can't be built
or not, for the FUD can't bebuilt, I go how could you make

(16:48):
us responsible for costing whenwe don't build anything?
We're just drawing riches.
Builders have got to follow aprocess.

Speaker 3 (16:54):
They've got to get involved early.
So designers need to involvethem early.
That's what I was going to say.
Do I know if it's a need to getinvolved?
Look, the solution to theproblem is to stop tendering
Like it has to be built on arelationship Like architects and
designers should have.
I believe all architects anddesigners should have two, three

(17:15):
, four builders that they knowdo great work, know that get
good outcomes, keep clientshappy, build good relationships
that get feedback, don't havelots of variations, all those
types of things.
Build a relationship and thenchoose one that suits that
client.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, make it matter.
The problem is everyone'sCapability in the right spot.

Speaker 3 (17:37):
Yeah, everyone's scared that if they go down that
process the dealer's got a freereign and just going to charge
at every light.
But if you're running a goodrepuel business you can't do
that.
You'll be found out.
You've still got to deliverpeople value.
That's all it is.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
We say to our clients when that's the case, when they
go, what?
Just go with one person, go andspend a couple of grand on a QS
.
Yeah, ask the builder if he'shappy with that.
I've never met a builder whowon't say absolutely and would
even be happy to advise the QSon what they're thinking along
the way, if they're going to bethe ones who do it.
Clients often go oh no, no, Idon't want them to know.

(18:17):
I'm getting a QS and I go.
What's the secret?

Speaker 3 (18:22):
The problem with like I've got a few issues with QS
Me too If you're going to go toa QS and for this and that
you've got to find someonethat's got experience in the
type of project Like some of theprojects we do mate, like
they're one-off.
The two houses, all of themWell they are, they're all

(18:42):
one-off.
But like the two houses all ofthem well they are, they're all
the way on.
But like the two sustainablehouses we just built that have
got, 60 odd percent of thebuilding is recycled materials.
Tell qus how it would work withbetter.
Yeah, exactly, and like thelabor involved in those types of
things.
So there is parts of that jobthat I've completely done my ass
because it it was a first time.
Like every job we do, we'redoing for the first time that

(19:03):
you can't make it about price.
And the other thing is whetheryou're a contractor, a designer,
an architect, an engineer, allof build up, everyone deserves
to like profits on a dirty word,like to build to for most
lessons.
The reality is, every businessin the construction industry was
actually trading, profitableand running a good business, the

(19:26):
cost of housing would come down.
I have no doubt about it.
I'll bet my life on it.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
Yep and variations wouldn't blow out Yep, 100% Yep.

Speaker 3 (19:37):
So, Matt, where's it gone wrong?
Where's this misalignment allgone wrong with?
How does it get so?

Speaker 1 (19:44):
skew-iff.
I reckon there's a couple ofplaces, liz, that design and
builders don't love each otherenough and they need to bond,
they need to get together andthey need to understand the pain
points and the pressure pointsin each other's business.
A lot of builders don't valuedesign, Like you said.

(20:04):
Those think yeah and then youthink, oh shit, actually these
guys do bring some value.
I think that's something.
There's a poor education forbuilders around design it was
that, mate?

Speaker 3 (20:16):
I did not get taught anything about design when I got
my build.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
The other thing that happens, which is really obvious
up my bill.
So the other thing that happens, which is really obvious, is
that designers all too often getdriven by ego.
This is all about them, allabout their project.
Oh yes, it's gonna have my nameon it.
You know, I've got the bigswimming dip.
That, that part of it.
You see it, though.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
I mean you've worked on that because it's our own
project.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
So with that, you know, put your dick away and go
and find the people who aregoing to be in your team that is
going to support you to getyour projects built.
If you look in Australia, Ithink the figures are somewhere
around 50 to 60% of projectsdon't get built that are
designed by architects.
That's an industry in failure.

(21:07):
Now, there was lots of reasonsfor that, and you might have to
take commercial into that aswell and a lot of projects get
drawn that then get modifiedagain and changed and all the
rest of those things happen.
But even if you went, 30% ofprojects that are drawn that are
private family homes don't getbuilt because they bumped it.
Because, Again, it's anindustry in failure.

(21:29):
It's one that.

Speaker 3 (21:30):
Again, that's all adding to the cost of housing.
Absolutely Everyone had betterprocesses, ran profitable
businesses and ducted theirsystems.
I don't know the easy fix forit.
At the end of the day, everyoneis scared that they're going to
pay too much.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
As the end user, yeah , that they're not going to get
value for their money.
Yeah.
Why is that?
I don't know.
Well, I think Because you can'tsee what isn't there yet.

Speaker 3 (22:04):
I believe, like I say this a lot, I'll go toe-to-toe
with anyone that wants to ownyou, riffley.
I firmly believe that a builderhas the hardest job, like hand,
belt and cross, and if anyonewants to trial that, come on.
You can come and work with mybusiness for a month and just
see everything can be out foryou to do, how complex it is and

(22:24):
how much regulation there is,yeah, how many parts there are.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
How reliable are people spending on time?
How reliable you are for supplyon time?
How reliable you are for detailon time?
How reliable are you foreverything that shifts along the
way?
Yeah, no, why would you do itTo lose money?

Speaker 3 (22:45):
No, Well, that's right.
The reality is most buildersand traders aren't losing money.
They just don't understand it.
But you can't compare us toother industries.
Like a car, you go and buy acar.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
The one behind it on the line is the same as the one
in front of it.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
The only comparison is a volume builder.
So you go and buy a purchase.
Let's say you go and buy a LandCruiser, Yep, so you've got a
base, you've got a GXL, you'vegot a GX.
There's different models ofLand Cruiser and everybody knows
before they even go to the carto start looking each model is
going to be different Starts at,say, 90,000 and ends up at

(23:27):
100,000.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
And so you go to a volume builder.

Speaker 3 (23:30):
It's very similar.
You buy a house off the plansand you know if you upgrade or
you change those plans you haveto pay more.

Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yeah, you get seat covers and you get some tinting.
It's going to cost a bit extra.

Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yeah, yeah, so that, and this is exactly why part of
my mission and I hope to leave alegacy that I separated the
women's street because Idefinitely believe that volume
builders, volume builders, tierone builders, commercial
builders, multi-rise buildersall need to be put in their own
paddock.
And us when I say us, buildersthat build one-off homes, need

(24:10):
to be separated because we, likeall custom builders and I don't
, I don't care if you're doinghundred thousand dollar jobs or
ten million dollar jobs custombuilders are the ferrari, are
you?
We're not.
We're not the builder that youcan walk in the front door and
say, $10 million jobs.
Custom builders are the Ferrari.
Oh yeah, we're not the builderthat you can walk in the front

(24:31):
door and say I want to buy thatoff the planes.
That's not how we work.
We're custom builders for areason.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
Everything we do is different.
So what is the reason for that?
I know the reason reason for it, but what motivates somebody to
become a custom builder overbeing a, you know, like a multi?
Uh, let them, I want to sayproject builder.
But you know somebody who justbans out the same house over and
over, or similar houses overand over um, oh, look, for me it

(25:03):
would be quality.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
Like I don't want to be known for just smashing up
the same thing.
I say no, no again, like that,um, that's just not me.
And and well, probably thechallenge as well.
I'd like, yeah, excitement, theadventure.
You said before the adventure.
I lied, even though theadventure is very stressful
sometimes, I like the adventureof every job being different and

(25:25):
having to figure things out anduse this.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
That brings out the best in you.
It's the problem solving andmaking your systems robust and
still being able to have asystem within that, yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:40):
I firmly believe until we, unless we get that
separation, it's always going tobe difficult because homeowners
just think they can go to adesigner or an art tech.
We've got friends and familythat are recently done with
volume try filters and itfrustrates me.
I understand where they'recoming from and then again they
just don't understand.
They don't know what they findout.

(26:00):
Yeah, they don't know what theydon't know, but for one of them
, them the reason that they wentwith the volume builder over
and we I didn't want to do it.
I told them it wasn't my type ofproject but there's another
really good builder that Irecommended, like they told me.
I told me to and I said theylook like if I was you, I'd
swear I'd get a lot better valuethere than you are there.

(26:21):
But their reasoning for goingwith the volume builder over the
person that I would have gonewith well, because the volume
builder didn't like I think theyhad a five thousand dollar cap,
so, like, for five thousanddollars you've got all your
drawing, all your engineering,like all your polymerase done,
whereas the other guy was goingaway getting a designer.
Everything was all individualpeople and the preliminary fees

(26:44):
were going to be like $6,000 or$7,000 down in Melbourne and
they didn't see the value inthat.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
So how would you demonstrate the value in that?
I suppose that's the realquestion there, because we have
people doing that with us.
That's the only people we workwith, so they are doing that,
they're going.
You know, adrian, we want youto go and organize our engineer
and our you know soil tester andall those different people that

(27:10):
have been part of that you knowthe value.

Speaker 3 (27:12):
It's the difference, right, the bill they went with.
Mate does not give a shit abouthow that house works.
He's just drawn a box on boxeson boxes.
He's got a big front door,massive, beautiful, big entry.
That looks like they'd see thewashes.
Got a big front door, massive,beautiful, big entry.
They'd see the whole show.
It's kind of a big boy, whereasthe designer would have figured
out right, oh well, how manykids you got, what vogies you
got?
Oh shit, you run a businessfrom home, oh, and you need a

(27:33):
side access.
Fuck, you've got a massive sheddown the back.
Where is he at there?
They've just got a massivehouse, house plonked on the
block.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
This is something I see a lot.
And look, doing the TV show, Isee all kinds.
So I see some absolute… Give ita plug, mate.
What's the TV show DreamhamsRevealed?
So it's Channel 9, 9, now 9,life, and I just do Queensland.
So I just look at the Dreamhamsin Queensland and we look at

(28:04):
from project homes.
We're looking from projecthomes all the way through to the
highest end of architecturallydesigned homes, everything
through that thing.
So there's a dream home foreverybody.
At Sunday I was going to ask youhow are you Ideally like?
You know, if your budget's Xand you know that you're going
flat, well, in a subdivision,it's unlikely that you're going

(28:26):
to be able to be going into acustom home.
You are likely to end up in aproject home.
And with doing that, it'sgiving people an opportunity to
see the values of each projecthome builder, what they can
bring, how on trend, or know ontrend or not in the future, how
they're up to standard, whatthey're doing.

(28:48):
And I'll go tell you some ofthose project homes.
I walk through them and I go,oh, okay, Others of them.
I walk through them and I goman alive, this is bringing
something.
This is truly bringingsomething, and I know plenty of
people that, uh, I go theyshould be worried about their

(29:10):
design business because theseguys are bringing better value
than they are and they arebringing things.
So I look at that and then Ilook at the top end, and the top
end can be so diverse like itcan be so amazingly diverse with
design and I look at some ofthem where they've been designed
by builders and I go I can tellit pretty much when I walk

(29:30):
through the door and that's auseful experience.
I go you know what a bit moredesign and you would have got a
whole lot more from the moneythat was spent to get to this.
So that in itself, seeing allthese different parts is really
fascinating and seeing howdifferent people jump on the
trains and other people areworking with the environment.

(29:53):
You know what's built in whichway.
The ones that are typically, Ithink, the best ones I've been
in have been designed either bya really good building designer
or an architect, and you willnotice it in the way the house
floats, the dynamics of the home, the circulation, how it brings

(30:14):
light and air into the house,how it's positioned on the block
, how the block is used tomaximize the best of the house.
There's a ton of relatedthought.
Well, google, that thingy,babalit.
Well, typically these guys thatare doing these ones, either
they're doing it for someone or,if they are developing, they

(30:35):
are working closely with thebuilder and they are the builder
side, or they are workingclosely with the builder and the
designer at the same time.
They're doing your PAC process,essentially within their firm,
and they're getting the best outof all of it.
But, as you say, the publicdon't get to see and know and

(30:56):
get certainty because they can'tsee the outcome.
And that's why, like in mybusiness business, I go I've got
a meeting saying can you cometo this first meeting, see if
you would work with these people?
And if you come out and you'renot for me, or if I come out and
you're not for me either, oreither one, then we at least

(31:18):
know that we're in or out of aproject and we also know that
you're getting paid to assistthe costing through design.
Yeah, and I'm getting paid todesign and I'm getting paid to
assist to make sure that it'sbuildable by you at the other
end.
And we've got a chance ofgetting within a budget range

(31:41):
within a budget range and in itwe're both able to educate the
client to the almighty wish list, to the budget on the other
side.
I was having this conversationthe other day with somebody on
my podcast and I said to himhave you ever had a project?
You're an architect in Americahave you ever had a project that

(32:03):
the budget was greater than thedesired list of things?
And he said no.
Have you ever had one thatmatched it?
And he said never, it's notjust homes.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
People do that with everything.
You get a boy and you child.
You always want the next one.
It's always upgraded tosomething.
It's human nature.
But again, building's verydifferent, because you're not
talking five grand, 10 grand, 20grand, it's multiples.
Yeah, you're talking lots ofmoney, like hundreds of
thousands, most of the timebetween what you want and what

(32:38):
you can afford.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
Well, that's the thing, like.
So, in the design aspect, youknow like somebody will come to
me and they'll be talking aboutthe new build and they'll be
coming and talking to me aboutthe finishes, and normally
people start with the finishesand then they're working their
way backwards and I'll say, okay, so approximate kind of budget

(33:01):
range that you're looking at,and then I've got my design
magic process which takes methrough a way of actually making
them very, very self-aware ofwhat they're asking for and what
its cost implication could be.
And so that's a process thatI've developed so that I've got
a good sense of it and they getsome bottom of that.
And then I give them somechoices at the bottom of that

(33:22):
and we do some multiplicationand we go.
So you know they may have nottold me their budget by this
point, we may have gone, we'renot really sure.
Okay, cool, let's work throughit.
We get to the bottom and westart multiplying it out and go
well, that's probably thecheapest you're going to build
it for and that's going to beprobably more what I think it
will be and this will be whatyou're showing me in pictures,

(33:46):
and the range could be anythingfrom, say, $1 million to $3
million in that same floor spacearea.
And I'm like, well, thatpicture you showed me is all the
frame.
It's zero tolerance.
You've got 18 meters of slidingdoors all sliding away down one
end of the thing.
We've got cantilevers out here,we've got that.

(34:07):
That doesn't only cost us$4,000 a square metre.
Wish it would.

Speaker 3 (34:12):
And that like there's simple things like that that
people, and even if it'ssomething they fault, they just
don't know.
But that's exactly why youshould have a builder and an
architect and build a team.
I know haven't seen it.
We got a job at the momentwe're about six weeks away from
wrapping up and one of the lastthings that client got stuck on
was this 12-metre sliding doorand they just could not get

(34:36):
their head around.
Like there was an option to putthree posts in and have three
4-metre doors, doors all openingin the center, what's same
amount of glass, less openingbut they wanted no support and a
setter opening 12 meter door,that with some two meter panels,
so that ended up in an eightmeter opening and we've that's

(34:57):
what they ended up going withnow the cost implication made
that with the, the structuralsteel, the extra design, the
extra engineering, extrafoundations to hold the point
loads.
I'm like something you have thethe cost of that door, and then
they wanted zero threshold sothere was drainage on that door,
the installation, likeeverything that went with that

(35:18):
door, but it added 120 000 tothe house for one door, and so I
get it If you've got 120 spins,you might.
Yeah, but even me as a builder.
I look at it and go that's anexpensive door.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
Do you think they got value for money out of it?

Speaker 3 (35:38):
They obviously do they do.
That was just one thing theywanted.
But what made this even moredifficult is not long before,
when we were trying to finaliseour cross and things, a good
friend of theirs was alsogetting a build and so they had
a door Doing a PAC process no,pac process, I don't know the

(36:01):
side of their door, but they hada lopsided door which the
builder had told them was aflush finish.
And they obviously had aconversation and they come back
to me like, oh, your friends aredoing this, and that their
builder said that it's onlyworth this much and love about
it.
Anyway, they trusted me andobviously we got the job.
We went and we built it and wedo our weekly site visits and

(36:25):
like.
So it got to a point whereevery week that our weekly site
business so our weekly sitebusiness is show and tell.
But we educate our clients somuch, we detail everything, we
select everything.
Literally they just become ashow and tell.
There might be a couple oflittle things here and there.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
We've seen a client for a brief like sign off or
agree or yeah, just and bringthem up to speed, keep them well
informed.

Speaker 3 (36:44):
But it literally got to a point where every for a
couple of months the client isgetting a phone out and showing
me pictures that her friendssent her from their dog, because
she's sending him pictures ofour dog and going.
Man, I'm so glad I went withyou.
Look at what they're pulling.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
That's what flushes.
It's only a 50 mil step and nodrain.

Speaker 3 (37:07):
All this stuff.
She's proud of drain, like allthis stuff, and she's like this.
She's proud of it.
She's showing me photos ofyoung men.
I'm so flattered to be with you.
Look at the difference, look atwhat they've done on this field
.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
So she thinks 120 is probably good value.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
Now she's like, now she's responding to me, but
looking back, like I understandwhy it's difficult to educate
clients on that, becauseeveryone just looks and goes.
How the hell can there be a120-dollar difference in sliding
doors?

Speaker 1 (37:38):
I had a job a few years back and client yeah, got
to have zero tolerance.
Entry all the way around, tonsof sliding doors, tons of
openings, everything's got to bezero tolerance.
And I'm like, yeah, that meanseverything's got to carry a
great drain, they'll be tiled inbecause we're coming off tiled

(37:59):
patios, fall areas, things likethat and just getting at the
antsy about what the cost of youknow that this looking like it
would be.
And I said to him you know thatlittle thing where you told me
you know everything's got tohave a great drain, you've got
to be zero tolerance.
He said $70,000 worth.

(38:21):
I'll show you, I'll show youthe builder's quote.
There's $70,000 worth of greatdrains that's uninstalled,
that's supply to get them onsite and have the plumber set
them up but not installed.
Then we're going to tile them.
Everything's got to be donefrom there 70K.
And he's like what for steppingdown 50 mil?

(38:44):
I said that's your choice.
That's your choice.
If you want to save the 70,let's put it in the laundry or
wherever else you think youshould spend.
Your choice, that's your choice.
If you want to save thisdevonty, let's put it in the
laundry or wherever else youthink you should spend your
money.

Speaker 3 (38:51):
But what I would say a lot of builders do, like I
definitely don't.
It's been six years since I'vebeen to one but like my wife and
I do some developments andthere's definitely been
scenarios where we've justbought lots of land and got a
boy and girl that put a house onit because put it outside,
because that's pure investment.
But like you're getting a gooddisplay villages and like you
see that their zero threshold isa standard sliding door nine

(39:15):
times out of ten, not evenrebounding into the slab or the
subfloor system, so the tiles,but into it and you got a 30, 40
step over it anyway.
Yep, but they get away from itbecause they don't walk to the
slab.
So if it's a concrete they'llhave to.
You see, at the top there's a75mm gap between the slab and
the house slab or the house andthe deck.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
Fill that up with little stones.
Go to Fechmus.
Do you want something to do?
I like that.

Speaker 3 (39:43):
Yeah, look it goes, weeds as well, they're fresh.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
That's what biophilic yeah, you bring the.
That's what the biofiltratedesign.
You bring that planting up tothat.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
That must have by listen like how is a client
supposed to know what things areworth when there's so many
options?

Speaker 1 (40:03):
well, also, as a designer or a builder, how are
you meant to know what theclient looks the most value on?
That's the other thing that Ifind really important when we do
our wishlist process.
We have a very, very structuredwishlist and, to kind of give
you guys some sort of scope onwhat we do with it, we have our

(40:28):
clients write their wish listsseparately.
We encourage them to not talkabout it together.
They will have had enoughconversation.
They're already hiring somebodyto do something.
Don't talk about it together.
That's not important.
What we want you to do is beselfish.
We want you to ask for what youwant.
The first kind of piece we arenot asking to fill out.

(40:48):
The first part where we getdown to nuts and bolts is we
have a heading that says thisproject will not go forward
without these.
These are number ones.
Those are.
You know that old analogy ifyou're going to get a jar, do
you put in the sand first or doyou put in the rocks?
Those are the big rocks, yeah,so I look down that this is the

(41:08):
start of the brief.
It's not going to happenwithout these odd.
Yeah, that's a good idea, yep.
Secondly is I would love allthese things.
These things are what's goingto make up the rest of the house
.
They're less important.
I'm more flexible, but I wouldlove these things.
And that's usually the nextlist.
So those are our next sizerocks that we're trying to put
in the jar.
And then we have our last one,which is fuck, it'd be brilliant

(41:34):
if we could get these.
We don't have any budget for it, but, man, this would be
amazing if we could have it.
And we've had the craziestthing to ask for there.
But it's just letting thebrakes off, people.
It's like let the brake off andlet it go and write me a list
of if you could hit anything.
And you're with your wife.
Your wife's writing her list.
She doesn't give a shit aboutwhat you want.

(41:55):
You're writing your list.
Don't care about her, don'tcare about the kids.
This is just what I want frommy home.
And then we say if yourmarriage is up, get those two
lists and create a third list.
Don't alter ego of those twolists and create a third list.
Don't alter ego of those two.
Come together and do notconsider each other before you

(42:16):
write these lists.
I want you to do them selfishly.
Then come together and comparewhat each of you is after and
write a third list.
Now from that third list, I lookat the third list first and I
go there's the brief and then Igo backwards to the other two
lists.
When I go backwards to theother two lists, some center has

(42:40):
given up on their dream piece,or have the number ones changed.
What's moved in the other?
Where have each othercompromised?
Who's done the compromising?
Is it all her or is it all him?
Where have they compromised?
Do you know what's happenedwith that?
Yep, and that gives me a readon A their relationship, whether
one person's overrunning theother.
I've also got the otheroriginal verse.

(43:02):
So when I look down at it and Igo oh you know, sally gave up
this, I'll go hmm, sally, howimportant was this to you when
you wrote it here?
Where did it get covered off?
How were you taking care ofwith that?
Oh well, it made sense becausehe wanted this and I suppose
that was more important thanthis.
Yeah, but didn't it end up onyour number two list?

(43:23):
So why did you give it up?
Why was it there and it wasn'tthere?
And they'll tell you why.
You do it gently.
Then, once we've got that we'vegot a hierarchy of needs of the
job and we know that our budgethas to sit within the big rocks

(43:45):
and some of the small rocks.
The genius of designers is togive them some things from their
list that they thought they'dnever get and then also to look
at the number ones that gotthrown out and see how we could
accommodate those.
Not always as expected, but howcould we accommodate some of
those?
How could we bring it back forboth parties?
That's what design's about.

(44:07):
It's the human behaviour ofunderstanding people and then
understanding that the builtstructure, the architecture, is
going to respond to theseelements and then begin to learn
what's growing emotionalthought, plans and all these
things that take that intoanother level.
But we're starting out with ajourney of education, first of

(44:29):
all around this budget kind ofidea and what you're asking for,
and then what really matters toyou in these things We've got
your basic money sort of spend.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
Everything you're talking about now.
That's the value.
That's the difference between abodybuilder that gives you a
set of $5,000 plan or you gowith the custom 50, 60, say,
well, $100, drop blocks.
That's the difference.
But you're and this was a biglearning point for me and why I
started seeing value You'reactually, you're getting in

(44:59):
their head, you're figuring outwho they are.
How do they live?
How do they travel?
Do they have family comes outof the home?
What hobbies?

Speaker 1 (45:07):
do they have?
What's their legacy play,what's you know, know?
Are they thinking that I'mgonna have a number of clients
who go?
This home will be tied up formulti-generations.
A family might be able to sellit.
Well, you know, snotty nose,bloody fourth generation.
I think it's going to developthe size or any of those things.

(45:29):
We're going to leave this as aas a legacy play for the entire
family, those kinds of things aswell.
And you look at the structuresthose people have had to put
into to protect the asset andmake sure that that care and
attention and love.
Even though it was designed forthem, it wasn't meant to be

(45:50):
altered.
It doesn't mean it won't getmade into more for what the
family may desire.
It's got to move with the timessomewhat, but the core of it
belongs.

Speaker 3 (46:02):
Look, I don't know if Greg's wrong, but to me real
life it's actually as timeless.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
Yeah, I had somebody ask me this the other day.

Speaker 3 (46:14):
When you see a really well-designed house that
functions well, my opinion isthey're timeless.
It doesn't.
But when you like all this shit, you see coming in now and the
last sort of tension and stuff.
And we went through thatHanford space like.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
Oh, that'll go on forever as well, by the way.

Speaker 3 (46:33):
For five to 10 years we thought it was hell-bent on
building this.
Every now and then it's likegreat, I'm away.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
On that.
Come on my Hamptons tour andsee the variation of houses in
Long Island and the Hamptons andmaybe all the way to Montauk,
and understand that the Hamptonsthat we call the Hamptons is
just a tiny little bit of what'sgoing on.
That's a Victorian style.

Speaker 3 (46:59):
The interesting thing Hamptons is a timeless
architecture.
It's like architecture, you'vegot to throw it around.
Everyone threw around Hamptonslike throw a couple of gables,
the Golden farmhouse, yeah, andso it loses value I Like.
And then those same houses thateveryone saw a lot of value in

(47:20):
and paid a lot of money for endup being just this run-down,
tired-looking, outdated homes.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
Yeah, I had this person ask me the other day how
do you make a home timeless?
And I said well, it's not hard,it's actually one of the easiest
things they could ever do.
And I said I'll give you anexample.
See across the water there, soon a very wide canal, so it's

(47:51):
here across the water there.
See that big tuscan style homeover there.
And they're like, yeah, we hateit.
And I said, yeah, I said, butwe know it's tuscan style, don't
we?
And in 20 years it'll be tuscanstyle and if it was 50 years
old it would have been tuscanstyle and 100 years it'll be
tossed in style.
It's because it's a thousandyear old design or a 500 year

(48:14):
old design that's being modifiedand put there.
We understand that it'stimeless.
If you don't want to do that,then choose another genre.
So choose, say, mid-centurymodern, and look at the genre
and go, okay, what homes like?
There's the case study homesthat were all done with

(48:36):
mid-century modern.
What homes in the case studyhomes, what were the elements of
them and how would I recreatethose?
Now you have a piece of tested,timeless architecture.
If you want to go the other wayand you want to go well, I want
to be an innovator and dosomething new then you need
somebody who's going to beexceptional with design and

(48:58):
design for the space.
So if for the fully blown, forbluff, and that's going to give
you something that has anelement of being an art piece,
and the minute it looks like thehouse down the road or the one
just over the hill or the one inSydney, not the one up here,
the minute it's doing thatyou're probably no longer

(49:21):
timeless, you're a part of acopy.
It doesn't mean it won't havesensibility and elements of that
.
But you look at certainarchitects and they do this most
wonderful job of creatingtimeless homes.
And it's not that they're everfashionable In fact they are
never fashionable but, as yousay, they still operate well and

(49:43):
that give it, say, 25 years oflife and your kitchen's probably
getting tired, depending onwhether it was built out of real
timber or whether it was builtout of, you know, mdf and
melamine and colour board andstuff like that, and appliances
may have changed.
The opportunity for differentthings may have changed, so you

(50:05):
might want to upgrade that.
And you know you think thehouse your parents lived in
versus the house you live in, uh, suddenly none of us got a
butler, but we've all got apantry.
You know these kinds of thingswe've, but these are fashion and
you may still need to ease thespace.
You know we don't have biggerfamilies than we used to have,

(50:26):
but we used to have those biggerfamilies on larger blocks,
landed farms and stuff but wehad.
Now you may ease those spacesin a renovation or a remodel of
that piece, it's okay.
It's okay the circulation ingeneral will work really well.
The light coming into the homewill work really well.
The airflow in the home willwork really well.

(50:47):
The airflow in the home willwork really well, the acoustics
of the home will work reallywell and you will live with some
of it and some of it will livewith you.
You know there'll be, there'llbe little moments of, I want to
say, teaching in the house whereit asks a little bit of you and
you ask a little bit of it.
But you live symbioticallybecause that's part of the joy

(51:08):
of it, um, of making that work,and you don't just bulldoze
everythingically, because that'spart of the joy of it of making
it work and you don't justbulldoze everything flat.
It's in-ground, yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
I'm really glad I've learned more about it, because
to me, a house that flows, ahouse that functions, changes
your life.
You want people to come over,you want to entertain, you do.
Look, my house in Kwono means asexual peace, but like it's,

(51:40):
Like it just blows.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
It's circulation-wise , it works for you.

Speaker 3 (51:45):
There's roof space for everybody.
Quick, it's 35 years old now.
We're just giving it a littlebit of a refurb and we've had
some plans down to do a littleextension and add sort of things
.
But yeah, I really do feelthat's what we mentioned before.
I think like obviously there'slots of shit going on in this
world, but actually that house,I believe, adds to a lot of the

(52:09):
depression, anxiety problems wehave in the world today.
If you're working we've all gotthis busy, busy life.
If you're coming home to ahouse that doesn't flow, that
doesn't have good natural light,that doesn't that separation
doesn't allow spacial space italways does.

(52:29):
But one thing I think we'vereally lost is bringing nature
in, but we've got plantseverywhere in our house and we
just won't start to do films youknow, like in 1986 I think it
was the term biophilic design.

Speaker 1 (52:46):
It came kind of biophilic design and that means
in-world planting.
Essentially that's what that'swhat it means.
So in in the world ofarchitectural material design,
you've got biomimicry.
So biomimicry is where we takesomething from nature and we
repeat it in the buildings, inthe built structure.
Um, an example might besomething like we might decide

(53:12):
to use the shape of a shell orthe way something emulates a
part of the landscape yeah,that's the Japanese.
We might decide to do that.
We might try to bring outsideelements that make the home feel
like it's very part of itsgrateful environment.

(53:33):
And then biophilic design iswhere we actually bring plants
to the interior of the home.
And the studies from 86 and Bondwill show you that if you put
plants in an office, if you putplants in a home, if you put
plants in a classroom, cognitiveresponse goes up.
We get better results frompeople when they live with

(53:56):
plants inside their house.
That could be the old ladderfern behind the toilet which
we've probably grown, or underthe staircase, the bloody water
feature in the planting, thosethings, and really 1970s there
was a lot of it, that kind ofHaight-Ashbury hippie movement
and all the rest and a lot ofwhat was done in the Pacific

(54:19):
Northwest and in California andstuff was bringing these
modernist structures togetherand bringing planting in.
That really actually wasshifting our cognitive responses
and it brings joy to the humanwhen we have plants inside.
So it's undertook a massivekind of rebirth by understanding

(54:45):
in COVID.
Covid was a great catalyst.
What happened is the peoplewere locked in apartments.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
Covid's done the opposite of what they wanted it
to.
It's made people open theireyes and have a think about it,
hasn't?

Speaker 1 (54:56):
it.
So it's making them considerwhat their living environment's
like and how much value itbrings.
We say this thing.
Let's think of building biology.
Building biology is aboutmateriality and, for all intents
and purposes, most buildingmaterials are unbothered.

(55:21):
They're treated, they'rechemically dosed.
They are.
It's the manufacturing factory.
It's that simple they are.
It's the maverick in thefactory.
It's that simple.
They create electromagneticfields.
You take a piece of gibrot,strip the paper off or just let
it go mouldy when it gets wet,and then all the gibs inside

(55:42):
that plus everything else that'sput in there.
It's not healthy, don't likebreathing it.
Our carpet underlay.
It's all made of toxic glues.
People you know you go and buya new car and people go oh, that
new car smell.
Well, that's a shitstorm ofchemicals.
Let it heat up in the sun for acouple of hours and go and
sniff it because it's reallyhealthy.

(56:05):
So our homes are this.
Our homes are this.
Our homes are full of toxicmaterials.
So first thing is, what couldwe do that simplifies the
materiality of our home tohealthier outcomes?
That would be worth spendingmoney on for your own health.
You might not be as intolerantto cancers or intolerant to

(56:30):
autoimmune diseases, all theseother chemical things that we
put in our environment.
They're stacking on top of us.
You know, electromagneticfields, all these different
things that are happening in ahome.
The first one is thismateriality, what are we going
to build it of, that willnurture or at least be neutral
to your health, so that yourphysical, what you're breathing?

Speaker 3 (56:52):
it blows my mind that , like I like to, get on hobby
horse with this as you know Ican too, like I, I, um.
it's only something I've reallystarted to focus on probably in
the last couple of years, butI'm really glad that I have
because I really encourage ourclients.
Now we are getting a lot ofclients coming to us, especially

(57:12):
here in Brisbane, becausethere's a lot of builders doing
healthy animals.
Our focus is high-performinghealthy animals and we are very
conscious of the materials weuse, mate.
What sort of questions shouldpeople be asking builders and
these animals when they'rethinking about building or
renovating to get them a goodoutcome?

Speaker 1 (57:34):
The simplest first one is if you're a designer,
they should be asking you who'sthe builder and what selection
of builders you're going tointroduce me to.
That's the first one.
And if you're a builder, theyshould be asking who are the
designers you're going tointroduce me to?
How will I know they're a matchfor me?
That would be the firstquestion, so that know you can

(57:54):
work well together and thatyou've done it before and that
you're a team, and then ask whatprojects have you done before,
with when have you workedtogether before and what were
the outcomes of that?
What were the outcomes of aclient?
What were the outcomes of abudget?
What were the outcomes of thebudget?
What were the outcomes of thebuilding?

(58:14):
How has it been received?
What was the flow of theproject like?
Those would be the first things, because a lot of people spend
all this money.

Speaker 3 (58:20):
I hope a lot of builders, designers, architects
hear this and start taking therelationship more seriously.

Speaker 1 (58:26):
It's all, everything has to be based on a
relationship A hundred percent.
And the other thing with thatthat's really important is for
designers and architects andbuilders is to make sure that
they have a value system that'saligned and that they have a
transparency in their valuesystem that they can trust each
other, that remembering thatthey're a team that will go on

(58:48):
to do this multiple times, thisone customer they've got is one
customer.
I'm not saying that they aresuper important, I'm not saying
that they're any less important,but they're one customer and we
have to manage them and theirvalues with our values and we
are as the builder and thedesigner.

(59:09):
We are only two foundationblocks to getting to a dream.
So somebody has a bit of pillowtalk and says, honey, I'd love
a new home.
And honey says, yeah, me too.
And honey says, how can weafford it?
Honey works out a way andeventually they go.
You know what we could do this?

(59:30):
Where do we want to be?
You might go.
Oh no, they start looking inthe magazines and they go.
You know what Found a blog.
They go exploring.
They find a piece of land.
They fall in love with a pieceof land Right at that point,
before they ever do anythingelse they should be talking to
their builder and design.
So the same process they shouldbe going.

(59:53):
Who is going to be our team tomake this happen?
Yeah, who?
Who's going to get us there anddoing that research in parallel
with, before you buy a block ofland that tells you any
easements, any, all the overlaysyou know like it could be 27 or

(01:00:18):
57 overlays on a piece of land,but it's going to be
significant overlays on anypiece of land.
What are they?
What am I going to be?
And don't ask the real estateagent for this information.
You need to take it on yourselfto get it and if you need to,
you come to a designer and yougo to the designer.
I need this.
I'm looking at this block.
What's your fee to do this duediligence report for me and what

(01:00:42):
will it cover?
Let them go and do that duediligence report and bring it
back to you At the same time.
Have them do that with thebuilder and pay the builder's
fee to get out there with thedesigner and wrestle with them.
You know Everyone like.

Speaker 3 (01:00:58):
It's worth doing 100% and I think everybody should do
that.
But there's so much pressureLike estate agents, developers.
There's always this pressurehey, you've got to sell the
paper Like, we've got otherpeople interested, they want the
seventh, they want the sales,and so everyone gets sucked in

(01:01:19):
and and, uh, let's miss it outon opportunity.
And then, because it is findingthe right local land plays a
massive role.
That's something else I'velearned, that's what ships me
about.
They do these housing estates,they do the little display
village and in the displayvillage every house is
orientated perfectly.
People walk through the home,it's so beautiful, it's not too
bad.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
Or south or east west , it's working beautifully.
The one they buy the road'srunning completely.
The other way.

Speaker 3 (01:01:41):
Yeah, they want to take it.
It's just easier and just plonk, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Oh, they're turned around backwards or half-stolen,
might as well be A hundredpercent.
That's the problem with thedeveloper mentality of you know.
Their idea is and I'm notsaying all developers are bad,
we need them their idea is howmany blocks can I get out of

(01:02:08):
this piece of land and how can Ido that with the most economic
civil structure and the mostdensity and the simplest of the
public amenity you have tosupply?
That's the game in developmentand somebody has to do that,
somebody has to take the risk.

(01:02:28):
Then, ideally, a good developerdevelopment let's just say it's
going to be all project homeswould go okay who my project
from partner is going to be andwhat size homes are we
attracting to this development?
How many of what?
Where will they be and how willthey be?
So what facades will work best?

(01:02:49):
What will be the most economic?
What gets will work best?
And look at how they can breakthe blocks up like that.
What's my east-west orientationfor the majority of the blocks?
And then the Project Home guysare going to shoot me, for this
is go back and ask those ProjectHome guys to develop me a set

(01:03:12):
of plans that suit my east-westblocks, my north-south blocks,
those best for this development.
Yeah, go back and take the onesyou've got and alter them and
make them work for thisdevelopment, so that the people
who live there get the best outof the environment.

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
Yeah, because I'm passionate about it like, how do
you go about building arelationship where both, where
everybody trusts each other?
Like because I get a lot offeedback about this, because
obviously we do the pat processin my business and yeah, I talk
about it everywhere, all overour stations, with lots of video
, a lot of content, people knowpretty much what updates to the

(01:03:52):
owners I collaborate with and soto me, like my answer to that
question was through our socialmedia, like, we build a trust
with the client.
No one's ever attempted forthat, even contacted us, of
course, but for the generalpublic that aren't, but for the
general public that aren'thesitant on creating a team and

(01:04:13):
having a process, what's yourrecommendations to build trust?

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
Jeez, that's a really good question, because that's
ultimately what creates thisprocess, isn't it?

Speaker 3 (01:04:25):
People don't trust enough.
If people trust, they don'tworry about the 10-year-old,
they don't worry about gettingmoney.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
They know they're getting value for money.
Yeah, so I think the number onething that builds trust for
people is the testimonial ofother people and the testimonial
of other people, so that theysee the same person as
themselves or how they'd like tosee themselves.
So the builder who thinks thatyou're amazing either sees

(01:04:55):
something in you that what theywant to be, or they feel their
values are aligned with yourvalues.
So that's the first thing.
That's the builder that youattract to your process and all
those things they go.
He seems to have worked it out,he seems to be honest, all
those things, and they dip theirtoe in.

(01:05:16):
But they've got plenty ofopportunity to go and research
it.
You're an open book.
There's tons of knowledge outthere.
So they can do that.
They can scope around for acouple of years.
Nothing you bum.
You know the whole bit decidingon whether they're going to
make a move or not.
For the public, which is thepeople who we really are trying

(01:05:38):
to help, because it's theirdream we're getting.
Learn it, learn it, it's theirdream.
Yeah, so we want to put downthese foundations the design
foundation, the build foundationand then give them their dream
For the public, I think again.
You know, isn't the stacksomething like people have spent

(01:06:01):
four to seven hours researchingon you as an individual before
they actually even make a callto you, and that might mean that
they've spent a couple ofhundred hours looking at
different people They've got toget clear about for themselves,
no matter what they're doing.
They've got to get clear aboutwhat it is that matters to them
and their values.

(01:06:21):
And that's a combo of, you know, say, one of a couple is just
most of my party are coupleslike offing fans but if they're
not, they're not the singleperson and get clear about what
matters to, what their valuesare and how they want to be

(01:06:41):
treated.
And so if they can do that,then fortunately or
unfortunately, social media isgoing to be the fastest way for
them to find some battle.
If, like you, good podcasts,like me, I've got a podcast
don't start listening.
Don't start listening to theconversations and see what you

(01:07:04):
can find out from them and thendo the research.
Just start un-listen and,pretty much I would say, make a
short list.
Now I've heard a guy calledDaniel Priestley, who's he lives
in England, he's from Australiaoriginally.
He is an absolute person ofsome marketing guru, he said

(01:07:27):
recently.
He said if I went to find, if Idedicated 24 hours to find out
about you, how many hours of the24 would be taken up?
That's the good of God, isn'tit?
Now, if that was you shit,they'd be sitting there at the
end of a week.

(01:07:48):
If it was me, the same, they'dfind me.
You know, for me they'd findsitting there at the end of a
week.
If it was me, the same, they'dfind me.
You know, for me, they'd findme on the podcast.
They'd find me on the website.
They'd find me on I don't know,tv, tv, house um speaking on
stage.
You know, they'd find all thiscollateral for you not too
different.
It would be these differentpoints of where they would find
you.
They'd find reviews, they'dfind all these things.

(01:08:10):
Out of that we still may not bea match.
So then, are our values likelyto align?
And then, if they are, if youcan find and I feel bad about
saying this, because I haveamazing designer friends who do

(01:08:31):
no promotion of themselves, infact, they say I don't want to
do any promotion myself, I wantto be with them, and it doesn't
mean they're not really good, itjust means that they have a
network and all their work comesfrom that network, and you
won't find them easily online.
They'll have a website, but youneed to have an introduction.

Speaker 3 (01:08:51):
I think that's a really old-school mentality.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
Yeah, I think it's detrimental to the customer.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:08:59):
Well, it's detrimental to their business.
They might be busy, they mightget lots of people coming their
way, but the people coming theirway aren't the right clients.

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
Yeah, they're not.
It's like if we talk someforeign language and we don't
have the values coming throughthat are understood.

Speaker 3 (01:09:24):
It's like Bill would say oh, we've got deep support,
we don't need the market.
That's because you're justtaking everything that comes
across the table.
You're not actually knucklingdown figuring out who is your
ideal client.
You're not trying to hold atrack on this.

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
Let's do that.
One Ideal client If you'relooking at doing a home and a
custom home, who's your idealbuilder?
Who's your ideal designer?
What are the values that youwould need?
What would tell you that youfelt respected and what would
tell you that you didn't feelrespected?

(01:09:59):
What would be the things thatare your biggest worries?
Would it be that you weren'tgoing to get value for money?
What would you need to see todemonstrate that you were
getting value for money?
If you're going to go and spendyour millions of dollars doing
this process, treat it like withthe respect it deserves and
that that design and build itdeserves.
Put a bit of effort in and findthe right team, because we

(01:10:24):
don't want to do it.
If we're not the right team,you know you don't want to….

Speaker 3 (01:10:29):
Man, I've got my time .
My time is too dangling, I'vegot no time, Just family.

Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
you've got life, you've got all these things.

Speaker 3 (01:10:35):
Well, I've just got all these goals that I want to
achieve, mate, and I don't wantto waste my time on especially
with people but you don't valuewhat I'm putting out there.

Speaker 1 (01:10:50):
I'm not just taking on clients in the front of it,
no, no, this is the thing.
There's that needy part wherepeople take on clients because
they haven't worked out theirbusiness model particularly well
, and then we also want theadventure of taking on I won't
say clients, I'll say projectsthat challenge us because we
want to be challenged.
I had an early podcast of minewith a guy called Jeffrey Dungan

(01:11:10):
from Alabama.
I said to Jeffrey Jeff, youmust have some incredible
projects.
I know he does.
You just go and look on hiswebsite and on his Instagram and
all that Incredible projects,very traditional style projects.
And he goes.
Yeah, I do, he goes, but it's alegend, it's not about
incredible projects.
And I yeah, dude, it goes forthis legend it's not about

(01:11:31):
incredible projects.
And I'm like shit.
That stopped me a bit and I said, yeah, right, and he goes.
It's about great projects.
He said it's about great people.
With great people come greatprojects and one shit project
could ruin a great year, or oneshit person could ruin a great

(01:11:55):
year.
So you're in a great business?
Yeah, well, it could seem thatright, perfect, yeah, especially
when you've got the non-moneythat swings around in the
building company.
So we want to know that valuesare aligned and that we're not
for everybody.
Yeah, but when we find thematch, you know there's magic to

(01:12:15):
be made.
So, people, I get the samequestion a lot Like.

Speaker 3 (01:12:19):
A lot of builders reject me.
A lot of trades say oh, I lookup to you, I want to be doing
the jobs you're doing and if I'mmissing them back, okay, it's
absolutely nothing to do withthe job.
Yeah, we work with incrediblepeople.
The projects jump into that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:34):
Your job's an incredible project for an
incredible person.

Speaker 3 (01:12:36):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:40):
like Johnny, you have to identify your what you want,
to the work you want to bedoing, the job that you want to
be working for, yeah, and thatthey have the values you need
and you have their values, butalso that we're stepping stone
to a dream.
Don't let the ego get in theway.
Their dream is what's theimportant part.
They come to us because theyjust felt like throwing some

(01:13:03):
pictures.
They didn't come to us becausethey thought they might stick
something up in the paddock.
They came to us because theyhave a dream and this dream's
precious.
This dream defines, maybe, therest of their life and their
legacy.
It defines how their familywill live.
It defines how they'll wake upand feel in the mornings.
It will define their behaviors.

(01:13:24):
So this dream is so preciousthere's a podcast on it right
now.
It is hey, this is so importantis so precious.
It is hey, this is so important.
So get your ego off and makethe promise to put the
foundation down that will givethem a solid stepping stone to
the next point.
Get your ego out of the way.
This is about them and it's forthem.
Bring your heart, soul andevery bit of knowledge and

(01:13:47):
education you can garner and putit into this for them, because
that's what they're paying youto do, and do it with the right
builder, so that, as we go,we're both so desperately in
love with what we're going tocreate that it gets created and
we get to hand it over that's it, mate.

Speaker 3 (01:14:04):
That's it.
That's how I feel with everymatch.
I just like, I just, I amcompletely just hon with love,
like in love, but can't wait toget started, want to build, want
to see it come out of theground, want to see the client
smile when we hand over the key,Like it's just, it's a whole.
Well, I call it a journey, butI prefer adventure.
Or it's a belcher, that's allright.

(01:14:25):
But before we go ahead and doour but, but before we go ahead
and do that, we're definitelythis is a big one, but before we
wrap it up, the last time wetalked us through your land with
green, which I know we had alot of people reach out about
that Can you talk us throughyour process for the rest of the
actual building?

Speaker 1 (01:14:42):
The emotional full thing.
Yeah, yeah, for sure,absolutely.
We'll talk about a role play init.
Yeah, I'll give you sort of thebasis of it.
You know the land Say hello.
Oh, for my father's sake, I'llCreep yourself off.

Speaker 3 (01:14:54):
That that's getting down here, he loves to cook
shrimp.
Put the shrimp on the derby Mel.

Speaker 1 (01:15:07):
The land.
Whispering is just sort ofabout honoring the land and it's
about feeling the energy in theland and truly connecting with
what the land can offer.
And then it's about what it canphysically that we can see and
anybody can see.
You know, like where will thesun come up, what will happen
with the wind patterns, whatwill happen with the rain?

(01:15:28):
And we get three things forfree and we get to position
ourselves with wind, light andair.
That's well sorry.
Air, wind and water, sorry, thethree things we get.
They just come out of the sky.
We pay for the land and we payfor the privilege to sit on it

(01:15:49):
every year, with our rates andeverything else, and we have
regulations over all thosethings, those other things.
They come to us regardless,just like we were born onto the
planet.
And so, first of all, honoringthat is really important,
finding the energy in that andnot destroying the energy,
soaking it up and bringing ittogether with us.

(01:16:10):
That's really key.
Then we go into the house andthe house, if we get it back to
the most basic thing, is house,is shelter and it's security.
That's what we're trying tocreate.
There's shelter and security,and that security has a lot to
do with how our sympatheticnervous system operates.
Security has a lot to do withhow our sympathetic nervous

(01:16:32):
system operates.
The ease of how a housecirculates, the way it brings
light and air into it, has a tonto do with how we emotionally
feel.
We got into before a little bitabout building biology and
materiality.
That has a lot to do with ourphysical health in the house.
So we start layering thesethings up.

(01:16:52):
We spoke about biophilic design, how we're going to blend that
outdoors and outdoors, how we'regoing to create separation from
it when we need to and howwe're going to embrace it as we
need to.
So if you look at an emotionalthought plan, everybody has what
I would call a perfect day.

(01:17:14):
There's a day that they go.
If I said to you, well, let'sdo a perfect day, you need to
tell me the day of the week andwhat you do on it and why that
would be the perfect day.

Speaker 3 (01:17:30):
Could I get in a future or now, what makes it my
perfect day to be Perfect?

Speaker 1 (01:17:36):
in the future.

Speaker 3 (01:17:37):
So my perfect day would be in the future, when our
farms develop and we go home,instead of looking down over the
arena and the barn and down onthe arena with the kids riding
their horse, doing their day,racing, listening to the ocean,

(01:17:58):
feeling the breeze and justseeing the kids enjoying
themselves sitting on the arenawith the ocean, feeling the
breeze and just seeing the kidsenjoying themselves sitting on
the green with the meal and justbeing grateful for where we're
at it probably doesn't look likeI'm going to have to exit yet.

Speaker 1 (01:18:14):
That's a perfect answer.
Tell me, what time did you wakeup About?

Speaker 3 (01:18:19):
30 days.
How's the sun for what?

Speaker 1 (01:18:22):
Why did you do that?
About 30 a day?
How's the sun come up?
What?

Speaker 3 (01:18:26):
did you do next?
Wash the sun cover.
And what did you do?
Have a glass of water and eatsome breakfast.
What did you do last?

Speaker 1 (01:18:34):
On the veranda.
Where did you get glass ofwater?
And make breakfast At thekitchen.
And so then you got to theveranda, and then that was the
start of your day.

Speaker 3 (01:18:45):
We were supposed to no one's normally out when I'm
out, mate, but no, my dog.
I'm an early moaner with my dogGood.

Speaker 1 (01:18:54):
Walter.
And so that sets you up in someway, doesn't it?
That routine sets you up?
Yeah, for sure't it?
That routine sets you up?
Yeah, for sure.
So that's why you do it, yeah,and you know the result of how
it sets you up yeah, and youkeep doing it because it works.

Speaker 3 (01:19:14):
Well, I aim to do it.
That's what I thought.

Speaker 1 (01:19:17):
So then, if we break that down again a little bit
tighter, so you roll out of bedand you know, make your sun
quiet up, or it's just coming upyou go and have a shower, or
you do all that before you havea shower, what do you do?

Speaker 3 (01:19:36):
I've always been upstairs with the door to work
out.
This isn't my ideal day.
This is what happens.
Well, if it was your ideal dayand I've- always been downstairs
with the door to work out.

Speaker 1 (01:19:42):
This isn't my ideal day.
This is what happens.
Well, if it was your ideal day,you'd probably still do a lot
of these things.
Yeah, because they reach in.
Yeah, so each space that you gointo delivers something back to
you.
So let's just use the kitchenas the example and then we're

(01:20:04):
going to do this in anothermanner as well, but let's use
the kitchen as an example.
So you go into the kitchen, yougo and make breakfast.
What do you make?

Speaker 3 (01:20:15):
What's your perfect breakfast?
I'm sure I've got a perfectbreakfast, might as well.
I've never, never, get it ifyou don't.
Oh, mate, I don't know, I'm notan egg fan, dude, but we'll go
with that, yeah okay, so to makeeggs Benedict you know you need
some eggs, you need some.
So in a perfect world I'd begetting up getting dressed,

(01:20:36):
going outside with the dog,walking down the truck house
getting my eggs, walking back tothe house making my breakfast.

Speaker 1 (01:20:43):
In the kitchen, in the kitchen, or and then going
back out on the veranda, yeah,sitting there, maybe not taking
any, whatever it is out there,thinking about the day here,
yeah, watching the sun come up.
Watching the sun come up, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:21:03):
So I've never thought about it before, but even like
so, look.
So all we know about the housewe're living in at the moment is
the guy.
That's the guy that built itwas his builder, built the first
outboard bridge.
So he had a quite a big company.
He also had corporate pumps andthings.
He travelled overseas.
He loved the architectureoverseas and Foundhouse was

(01:21:27):
designed by an architect inAlabama or somewhere.
And it blows my mind becausethey obviously because I think
the orientation of N, our NS, isperfect.
It's absolutely perfect.
Maybe it was a bit after 10.
Because the way it's positioned, I of a morning, from our

(01:21:51):
bedrooms, from our dining room,from our green area, I don't
have to move, I just watch thesun come up.
And I didn't call you to.
Yeah, I don't have to go andsit in a particular area, I
could just come by there.
But in the afternoons it setsout of our kitchen window, yeah,

(01:22:11):
and we all know the girls loveit, because generally that's the
time that we're preparingdinner and we're all having a
chat and we can look out thewindow almost every day at the
little sunset.

Speaker 1 (01:22:20):
I thought you were just going to say.
So maybe he was just a greatarchitect and actually wanted to
say that the house really well,he thought about what was going
to happen and maybe the guy thebridge builder maybe he was the
guy who said you know, I knowthat these things make a
difference, I want these thingsin my life and therefore the
house got designed that way.
But we think about this thingagain of if I was to draw you a

(01:22:45):
house that didn't have a verandathat you could sit on and eat
your breakfast.
I might have just stolen partof the dream and I could dig
into the veranda in a milliondifferent ways and ask you
questions about it.
What I'll do?
I'll jump out of that justthinking about what that perfect
day is.
If you just wrote your wordperfect on the wall and then
just kept track of what perfectmeant to you for a Monday, a

(01:23:11):
Tuesday, a Wednesday, a weekdayand I would say Monday is a
really important one because formost people that's kicking off
the week and then I would alsoget them to add a Saturday and
Sunday and I would ask what thenuances were between those.
And we're going to go from wakeup to go to sleep.
Let's dig in and just find outwhat perfect for you would be

(01:23:35):
and then, if you've got a wifeor a partner, do the same.
Do the same, write out yourperfect and compare your lists
at some point.
Oh, I'd like to sleep in a bitmore on a Sunday.
This is more important to me.
You just said you're the firstone up Usually it's you and
you're getting alone time.
Then You're getting time forthat monkey mind ADHD to just be

(01:23:59):
settled a bit.
It's busy.
It's got settled with it.
It's busy.
It's got jobs to do.
It's going and getting an egg.
It's going and doing things.
It's got a little routine thatlooks at the sun.
It does these things that youknow make a better you and you
know that a better you brings abetter family.
It makes you a better human, itmakes you a better business.
It makes you a better community.
It makes a better business.

(01:24:20):
It makes a better community.
So you are self-aware and youare consciously and continuously
working on your ownself-awareness.
Most people aren't probablyquite as self-aware as you, but
these are the steps to becomingself-aware.
These are the steps to becomingself-aware.

(01:24:43):
Architecture respondsbeautifully to the people who
can become self-aware aboutvolume, color, light.
You just said that home thatyou live in you can get up and
all those things are actuallystarting to happen without you
having to move away from find aspecial spot.
So in decoding a human orhumans that are going to live in

(01:25:03):
a home, how do we take thatinto account?
Now that's gone in your casewith this house of orientation,
probably window heights andthings like that, and you have
adapted to them as much asthey've made it available to you
.
If I said to you tell me thefavorite room in your home, now,

(01:25:31):
absolute favorite room.

Speaker 3 (01:25:33):
I'm not sure what to call it.
We've got a sitting room or anamp room with a fireplace in it.
The room with the fireplace,yeah, but it's a bit odd, I've
never had it before.
So you walk into our entry, ourfront door, and it's a huge
two-story void area, the bridgeacross.

(01:25:55):
So you go upstairs.
All the main bedroom and mastersuite is to one side.
That's got a bridge across thevoid to all the kids' living
area and bedrooms, but that goesflows straight on to, yeah,
like a room with a fireplace anda sitting area, and that again,
that's got the exact same whatI explained to you before, like
the sun.
It's got two-story windows inthe side of the fireplace and

(01:26:19):
the sun just floods in that ringof a morning.
You sit in the chair, you canjust feel, hear the birds.
You can like the exact samething in the afternoon.
You look at like the big chunk.
So the thing is it didn't.
When we first bought it, thefront door was all sealed up, it
was solid and you couldn't seethe view.
Now we've changed it all.

(01:26:40):
We've got a lot of glazing andit's open.
The same thing in the afternoon.
Like you can see in that sage,you sit in the morning and you
can watch the sun go down.

Speaker 1 (01:26:49):
Something that I'm going to ask with that piece, to
kind of keep on the subject, isthat ability to see a distance.
How important is that to you?

Speaker 3 (01:27:02):
Oh, it's everything, mate, because I cannot.
I hate that.
People live in houses and Iknow it's an affordability thing
where you look at your windowsand all you see is a fence, or
you see the neighbours side ofthe neighbours.
I like your height, though Forme I feel caged, I feel left in.

Speaker 1 (01:27:20):
I know you people listening some of them may not
know you.
Would you say that you're a manof vision?
Yeah, do you think that you'vegot a reasonably long vision,
with a few kind of things you'dlike to kick off in that?
Yeah, mate, always that's it,eh, yeah.

(01:27:40):
So if I was sticking in yourvision for us to physically put
you that, yeah, mate, alwaysthat's it, eh, yeah.
So if I was sticking in yourvision, if I was to physically
put you in a cell, what would bethe hardest thing that you'd
have to overcome?

Speaker 3 (01:27:51):
I think about this very differently now.
If you had asked me thatquestion three, four years ago,
I probably wouldn't have beenable to answer.
I would have got nuts in thatspace.
But now I've just shut my eyes,mate.
I've just invented where I wantto be.

Speaker 1 (01:28:06):
You're a visual Because you're a man of vision.
So go back to now, that livingspace which has the fireplace
and fireplace is a key item, andthen we'll come to that in a
second the fact that you've gotthis long vision, and you, as a
human, need a long visionbecause you've got a mind that

(01:28:31):
is full of long vision.
If I chop it off, you'll closeyour eyes and you'll react.
More vision without it.
That's who you are.
So, when you have long vision,what?
And in that room in particular,and you've talked about it

(01:28:53):
morning and afternoon, and I'mgoing to ask which is the most
favorite time to use it.
So you told me that first,what's the most favorite time?
When does it fill your heartmost?
Morning?
So, if it's filling your heartmost in the morning and it gives
you that long vision and itgives you the ability to look
into the sun and stuff, what'sone emotional word that you

(01:29:16):
would sum that up with?
Content, content.
And when you say content, whatwas that?
Give me the context of whatcontentment means to you From

(01:29:37):
sitting in that room Wheneveryou felt content.

Speaker 3 (01:29:41):
Oh, mate, I just feel so grateful.
Well, number one, I used to getup, struggle to get up, feel
tired already, have the shitsabout the day and be stressed
about what was going on, whereasmy mindset now, mate, is fuck
you.
If my eyes are open in themorning and I take a breath, I
know that was me in my life.
We're very alive, I do breath,I know that was me on my face.

(01:30:01):
We've are alive.
Look to me.
It's that simple.
It's all all fantastic if youcan wake up in the morning and
be purely grateful that you'veyou're woken up and you're alive
and you're healthy.
Fuck, mate, the rest of thosegonna be a breeze does that,
yeah, all the challenges.

Speaker 1 (01:30:15):
I'm bored.
So contentment gives you thisincredible power to achieve and
to follow your vision and toachieve goals and to lead the
way you're a leader, to lead byexample, to create community,
all these things.

(01:30:36):
This is what contentment givesyou.
This.
What contentment gives you, ifI chop that window out that
you've gone and put so you getthe long vision out of it and
stuff like that, you'd probablywant to fix it.
You'd probably go well, what isout there?
What else could I have?
You could do the opposite andclose your eyes, which I know
you'll do anyway at differentpoints.

(01:30:57):
So if we can get a read on whatthat architecture, I wouldn't
know that, no, you wouldn't.
But this is the thing.
This is how we discover it.
So we start with something thatmatters and that has a big, big
pull, and then we go throughthe house, room by room, going

(01:31:19):
okay, if it works perfectly foryou, what would that be?
What emotion would you feel?
This way, we do it on differentdays of the week as well,
because on monday it could beand I'll give the example family
, kids, school lunches.
Have you got your damn bagwearing your shoes?
Shit, you've got sports today.
Get your stuff.
We've got to get out of thehouse.

(01:31:40):
I've got jobs to do as well.
Come on, stop pissing around.
Help your mother.
You know all these things.
That's kids.
That's just part of being afamily, yeah, and if you can
continually set yourself up sothat you've got gratitude and
all the rest, those other things, they're just management.

(01:32:00):
Those are management.
They're just management.
Those are management.
They're just growth for you andkids and the family.
So what we're looking for ishow architecture can support the
emotional states that arecritical to you being your best
human and then being your bestman, your best husband, your

(01:32:22):
best father, your best boss.
We're looking for those thingsand we're doing the same with
Camille.
We're saying actually, what arethe things that you need that
make you into the best humanthat you can be, which creates
this incredible family?
And when you create thisincredible family, your kids are
stepping off a platform way uphere, because you've given them

(01:32:48):
the environment that allows themto step off that platform.
And that is what we're doingwith an emotional floor plan.
Room by room, piece by piece,you're looking at what matters
to each of you and then going ifI lower the ceiling, what would
that do to it?
Oh, it might lose my eyes.

(01:33:08):
If I made it super expansive, Imight not feel as hugged or as
intimate or as secure.
Yeah, yeah, if I positioned youover here in that room, you
might go oh no, no, no, no, Ineed to be in that corner.
There, there'll be a space inthat room that feels better than

(01:33:29):
the other spaces.
I can dig through all this.
When we're doing the design ofthe building, we're taking these
elements and we're listingcontentment and we know what
contentment means to you.
And we've got that and thatroom might not be her favourite.
Her favourite might besomething completely different.

(01:33:50):
We're looking at that and we'regoing how do we make this spot
magical and make you the humanyou can be?
And this is an extension ofwhat we do from outside.
Like I said, well, if we don'tput a veranda on it, we put her
in the drink and that veranda.

(01:34:12):
It gets to be really specific,because if I jam you up and
you've got to eat your breakfaston your knee and you've got,
you know, hex Benedict slidingall over the show, it's not
going to bring you contentment,it's going to bring you
frustration.
So it's not about making lifeeasy.

Speaker 3 (01:34:28):
But that's again back to the value thing.
That's the difference between avolume builder presenting a set
of off-the-shelf planes andgoing to an architect who's
always having to find out aboutyou.

Speaker 1 (01:34:42):
It's your dream.
Well, you know, like I can lookat the things we've just spoken
about and I can go okay, cool.
So I need to know these thingsfrom your point of view.
I need to know these thingsfrom Camille's point of view.
What, from her point of view,would disturb, would you disturb

(01:35:02):
her with, and what, from yourpoint of view, will she disturb
you with?
Where are these points wheremaybe there would be a clash of
things?
So an example would be um, ifyou get up and you've got a
really open ensuite to thebedroom and you're fanging
around and scrubbing your teethor whatever the hell you're

(01:35:24):
doing, and she's still asleep,now her sympathetic nervous
system will be differently keyedfrom yours.
She's a mum and she's a female.
So she is going to be aware ofso many things that you're
unaware of because you've gotmale strength, you've got
testosterone, you've got theseitems.
Those are going to form you asa different dma structured human

(01:35:47):
and where hers will be moresecurity based.
You're like I'll handle whatneeds to be handled.
This will be security based.
It will have an air on the kids.
It will be like will thatchange with that movement, even
in their subconscious when she'sasleep.
So if there's a an hour'sdifference in those two spots,

(01:36:09):
she may need more sleep than you.
Is she going to get that earlylater, but you know, in the
ignorance earlier, or is shegoing to get that later?
How are we going to design thatroom so that she gets the least
disruption and you get the mostflow, so that you're not walking
out without it being perfect?
Yeah, that's an emotional floorplan, but we do way more than

(01:36:33):
that.
That's a touch on understandingthe human and getting them to
be vulnerable, because when wecan get their heart to connect
with the heart, that we can putin the home and in this case you
know it's in that living roomarea and in the other case, of a
perfect future one, it's outthere, you know, looking out

(01:36:55):
over the land, over the arena ordown by the chalk shed shed.
It's taking the walk, it'sgetting some eggs, it's getting
back up there.
It's got the dog with you.
We're fulfilling part of avision that you want to create

(01:37:17):
and you all morph with it In thegym.
We've just started.
We've just started there.
We're going to get to herethrough a design journey.
You think we're going todiscover some shit.

Speaker 3 (01:37:28):
No, it's powerful stuff.
It's stuff that people Ibelieve that a lot of builders,
tradies, homeowners, designersjust don't consider, and that's
what makes a difference betweena home and a house 100%.

Speaker 1 (01:37:44):
And I've had.
That's about the love that sitson the structure because you
can take a box and turn it intoa home.

Speaker 3 (01:37:50):
And I think that's why and I'm sure you get it as
well, but I believe that's why,on handover day, on back with
our jobs, our clients are intears.
Yeah, because we've deletedsomething the drink.

Speaker 1 (01:38:04):
The drink.
You know, you think when yourdream comes true, when you're
sitting.
Or you get up in the morningand you're up there at the beach
on the farm and you'restrolling out.
You're getting up in themorning, you're seeing that sun
come up and you're strolling out, pulling on some boots, maybe a
bare foot, down to the chookshields, looking across, taking

(01:38:28):
it all in, and then you're going, wow, okay, and you get back up
and you're sitting on, you makesome breakfast, you sit on that
veranda and you're going tohave a sense of contentment and
then you're going to go.
Oh man, what am I going to dowith my kids?
Where are we going to go?
What's the adventure we'regoing to have?
How's life going to play out?
What am I going to learn?

(01:38:52):
How am I going to be this humanthat allows them to be their
best humans and in the future?
They look back and go.
I always wondered why that cameup so early.

Speaker 3 (01:39:02):
Oh man, I love it.
It's the best time of the day.
You can see why we do it.
Yeah, 100%.
Maybe we'll have to wrap it up,because we can definitely talk
on the radio.
Mate, before we go, tell useverywhere that we can find you.
You're a loaded place now.

Speaker 1 (01:39:18):
Yeah, go spend 24 hours and see what you can find
us.
No, if you look at ar designhousecom, you'll find me there.
If you look at adrian ramsey oninstagram, that's pretty much
my main kind of space.
Uh, if you want to watchchannel nine stream homes
revealed, you'll find me onthere as the host for queensland
uh chalk podcast.

(01:39:39):
I drop a podcast every week ondesign and mental state.
A lot of different events Ispeak at as well.
They'll be around.
The big one would be if youreally want to experience some
really up close and personalmagic and you're not wanting me

(01:39:59):
to design your home've gotsomebody that's doing that come
on a tour so you'll find thetours under feast experiencesus.
That's with my you, with mypartners who, if you want to
come on an adventure that willbuild you, adventure that will
build you network connection.

(01:40:20):
It will take you into spacesthat you never thought we could
be in in the way of architectureand environment.
Plenty of adventure, food, likeyou've never eaten before.

Speaker 3 (01:40:35):
I'm super, super keen , whether it's this year or next
year, but I want to be on oneof those trips.
I've seen the places we go, thehomes we visit, the builders,
the builders.

Speaker 1 (01:40:42):
The builders.
We introduced you to thearchitects.
We introduced you to the minesthat we put you around.
This is one of my favoritethings about these tours is we
have a day at the end that wecall Breaking Bread.
That we call Breaking Bread.
And so the wrap day of a touris we bring all the tour group

(01:41:09):
off in a slew together and we goto somewhere just before lunch
and we get there and we have achef preparing us lunch.
We might have wine with it andall the rest, and we have a lot
of the guests that we've metalong the way come to this lunch
as well, and so there's all ofus and there's the guests that

(01:41:29):
come as well, and we eat and wedrink and we discuss, and some
of us, you know some peopleshare things, give talks, wrap
up, get common experiences, makesure everybody's sharing and
feeling it and networking, andwe do that and we have a lazy

(01:41:51):
afternoon doing that, and we getthat lazy afternoon roll on
into dinner and again then wehave a dinner like nothing
you've ever had before, justsomething out of the box.
And then after that we wrap thetour at that point and then we
disperse back to a hotel andeverybody's free.

(01:42:13):
The next morning they go and dowhat they want.
Now, sometimes I might runanother little day's trick or be
doing something and a couple ofpeople might join me or
whatever, but that aside, let'sjust say it's over.
That day you may have madeappointments to go and see some
of those people that you metalong the way and dig a little
deeper with them because wecertainly encourage that and get

(01:42:38):
some more personal time withthem one-on-one.
If you're around for the day,you might go shopping, you might
go walking, you might goswimming, you might do surfing,
you might go skiing, it might bewhatever it is that you want,
and we can curate a lot of thatfor people.
We want to change yourperception of how architecture

(01:42:59):
feels and what's happening inthe world of building and
architecture and this builtstructure and how we as a
community whether you're aboutto build a home or want a home
designed.
This is like education onsteroids.
If you're a builder, it is likedepth of education and design

(01:43:23):
and in what happens in thebuilding methods globally and
what we can see in the future.
You know our friend Matt Risingwould be a great example of
those kind of pieces.
And then it is if you're anarchitect or a designer or an
interior designer.
It's building your network andlearning from world-class people

(01:43:46):
in another space.
Yeah, so bringing that together, but with this common
conversation of a love ofamazing food and a love of the
built structure, yeah, I mean,I'm keen, I'm super, super keen
to get love.
A lot of dancing, a lot of,like, you know, barbecue or
whatever the cuisine is, somemusic, you know all the things

(01:44:08):
that make life magic.

Speaker 3 (01:44:10):
I've seen your photos and stuff on Instagram, mate.
They've been incredible.
But, mate, thanks so much fortaking some time out to staff
and having a time to join us.
Another crapping episode.
Look, guys, really appreciateeveryone listening and watching.
Please help support us tocontinue to make this
Australia's number oneconstruction podcast.
Look, if you haven't seen italready, go to the personal

(01:44:31):
website, dwaynepiercecom.
Buy some merch.
Help support our cause tocreate a new building industry.
Also, we have got someincredible events coming up now,
so make sure you register soyou receive our updates, have
emails and blogs and all thosetypes of things, because, uh,
yeah, this mission to create anew industry is ramping up and,

(01:44:53):
uh, it is a raging fire now.
We got some incredible stuffcoming up in 2025.
So, uh yeah, life shares strong.
All those things and we'll seeyou on the next one.
Are you ready to build smarter,live better and enjoy?

Speaker 1 (01:45:04):
life, then head over to livelikebuildcom forward
slash elevate to get started.

Speaker 2 (01:45:19):
Everything discussed during the level up podcast with
me, duane pierce, is basedsolely on my own personal
experiences and thoseexperiences of my guests.
The information, opinions andrecommendations presented in
this podcast are for generalinformation only, and any
reliance on the informationprovided in this podcast is done
at your own risk.
We recommend that you obtainyour own professional advice in

(01:45:42):
respect to the topics discussedduring this podcast.

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