Start Acting and Thinking as Though You've Already Achieved It and The MONEY Will Come.

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I think, a big thing I got taught in sport as well.
It was like if you want to besomething, so say you want to be
a professional footy player ora basketball player or a tennis
player, whatever it is, you haveto act like that, even if
you're not there yet.
You have to start training yourbrain and your mind and then
also working on your skill setto get there.

(00:20):
So I think I've just carriedthat into construction, which
G'day guys.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Welcome back to another episode of Level Up.
We are in for an absolutecracker today.
I've got a great guest with ustoday.
He's one of the only well, oneof a handful of guys that have
actually reached out to me onInstagram and is now sitting in
the seat because he wants tohave a chat and learn and
progress, because he loves thebuilding industry and he wants
to eventually become a builder.
So, bloody man Mountain, bigwarm welcome to Lockie.

(00:54):
How are you, mate?
Good Dwayne, thanks for havingme on.
What are you 6'8"?

Speaker 1 (00:57):
6'8".

Speaker 2 (00:58):
6'8", not 6'9", holy shit, maybe 6'9 in boots, but
you make me feel like a bloodykindergarten kid sitting here
beside you.
But um, let's get serious.
So you reached out to me oninstagram.
You uh been following thepodcast and my socials for a
long time and wanted to come andhave a chat about just the
building industry and what youdo.
So you've been a chippy andyou're actually you're 25 years

(01:18):
old and you're now a supervisor.
So, yeah, kicking goals that'sit.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
Thanks, mate.
Just like I told we weretalking about before, I drive
around supervising now goingfrom site to site, and I got
sick of listening to Spotify andcircling through my different
music tastes.
What's?

Speaker 2 (01:35):
the music.
What's the tunes you listen?

Speaker 1 (01:36):
to.
Oh, it goes from country rockand roll.
A little bit of new stuff aswell, I'm all over the place.
I'm a little bit of new stuffas well, I'm all over the place.
I'm one of those guys thatdoesn't have any spotify
playlist.
It's all just in like songs andyou hit shuffle.
But um yeah, so end up.
Just getting onto the level uppodcast, I think I followed your
construction company oninstagram first and then saw all
the stories you posted and, umyeah, jumped on the podcast and

(01:58):
now every I'm pretty sure I'vecaught up to almost every
episode.
Every tuesday, when a new onecomes out, it's the first thing
on the playlist.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Cheers, mate, appreciate the support.
So before you start asking somequestions, tell us a little bit
about your journey, because 25is quite young to be a
supervisor.
So how have you ended up whereyou are?

Speaker 1 (02:19):
I was one of those guys that just knew they were
going to be a chippy from dayone.
It sort of all happened bychance.
I played a lot of like myinitial goal in life was
probably guessing by the heightwas to play basketball.
So I played a lot of thatgrowing up and when I was
finishing grade 12, I wanted togo over to the States and play
college basketball there.
So yeah, I was sort of on trackto do all that, finished grade

(02:42):
12, was looking to go over tothe States, and then a few
things happened around thatwhere I got some different
offers and was happy with some,wasn't happy with others, but I
still had a place at uni here inBrisbane.
So you know, that was sort of abit of a backup plan.
But one of my best mates fromschool he was always going to be
a chippy, his dad was a builder.

(03:03):
That was him lined up and, um,they were doing like a sandwich
panel, um carport, and theyneeded a hand, an extra guy, and
he's like, lucky, do you wantto come down and give us a hand?
I was like, oh sure, why not?
I'll come down.
Sounds like a pretty good deal.
Get paid, whatever it is for aday, a bit of spending money and
, um, that day sort of turnedinto a week with him and his

(03:24):
boss, like we just all sort ofworked well together.
And then his boss had a matewho was looking for an
apprentice, and just timing wisesort of worked out well for me.
I was actually going to go.
I went to uni for one day and Iremember it was like an
induction day went to uni forone day and about halfway
through that day I called dadand I was like dad I can't

(03:45):
remember the exact words I used,but they're talking to me like
a kid, like I'm still at school,like this sucks, like you know
I don't want to be here, and dad, you know, forget what he said,
but it was pretty much like allright, we'll pull your finger
out and go get a job then, oryou know work it out, so that
all happened start and then Iwent for the interview with my
friend's boss's mate started onwith them fresh out of school

(04:08):
the next year and the plan wasalways to sort of go and play
college basketball.
But as soon as I started workingas a chippy I was like I love
this and I just wanted toprogress my career as much as I
could.
And then from there I did about.
I did two years with the firstguy I worked for.
What sort of work were you doing?
We were doing sort of.
It was a mixture of like newbuilds and renovations.

(04:32):
Didn't get a lot of experiencebut like enough, but also got
some experience with pools andlandscaping.
So it was more of a builderapprenticeship, which I enjoyed.
It was nice.
But I really wanted to moveinto like pure carpentry and
framing.
But about halfway through thatI got an opportunity to start
training with like thedevelopment bullets team.

(04:53):
So I was working like half aday at work or training in the
morning, then working half a dayin the afternoon until
eventually I was like you know,I've got to really give
basketball a crack.
So I put my apprenticeship onhold after nearly two years,
went and did that, playedbasketball for a while, had a
few injuries.
I'm definitely not one of thoseguys that say if it was one

(05:13):
knee I would have been there.
That's not me.
But I gave it my best crack andI got to live out that dream
for a little bit.
And then I did sort of sixmonths through another friend
who was doing his apprenticeshipsix months with them doing like
one really big, high-end buildactually won like a HIA award
for best new build, maybe overthree million or just under

(05:36):
three million or something likethat, do that for six months.
But they didn't have a job forme as an apprentice, but one of
his mates had had an opening forfor an apprenticeship, which I
was really lucky to get, I think, because there's not many guys
that want to take on, you know,second, third, third year
apprentices, um, yeah.
So I jumped on with them andthey're the pure subcontractor

(05:58):
chippies.
So finished my apprenticeshipoff, did another two years with
him as a carpenter, um, and thenpretty much transitioned from
that when he retired now into mysupervising role.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
And here I am yeah, so that you were.
So the company you're workingfor now was doing all their own
carpentry work and and stuff.
Yeah, they are, yeah, yeah,yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
So it's pretty big um call, mate, to throw you in the
deep end and be a supervisoryeah, well, I think I was saying
before, like the, the boss thatI'm working for now, his dad
was who I finished myapprenticeship for, so we had a
bit of a good relationship wherewe were doing the subcontractor
carpentry work for, for who I'mworking for now.
Um, so developed a relationship, a bit of trust that way and

(06:43):
you know, we got along reallywell and I think it was just a
good progression for him to havesomeone he trusted and his old
man had trusted for so long as acarpenter.
Yeah, and I was keen, I reallywanted to do it, I wanted to
progress and evolve my career.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
So what was the process there?
Was it like, hey, I'm anAustralian in the deep end?

Speaker 1 (07:11):
or was it?
Hey, I'm in australia in thedeep end, or was it?
Hey, come with me, I'll teachyou how to do things like?
Um, no, he's been really good,definitely.
Uh, come with me, I'll show youhow to do it.
Um, like I say, the first sixmonths, you know, was a massive
eye opener, super humbling Ithought I was.
You know, I knew I knew my jobas a carpenter and, within my
scope of works, was quite okaywith that.
But all the other stuff youknow, footings and all the
builder side of the job wascompletely way out of my reach

(07:36):
at the time.
But yeah, my boss has beengreat in training me up and
taking me through the processand explaining things and
showing me and letting me fail alittle bit, but not too much
that it's too bad.
But I've been learning somegood lessons and yeah it's been
really good development for me.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
So do you do any extra additional learning?
Like, do you go to seminars?
Are you like you're getting onboard, like doing industry
seminars, personal development,like what are you doing to sort
of stay ahead of the game?

Speaker 1 (08:02):
yeah, I haven't yet, but this year that's some of my
goals definitely just reach out.
And that's probably why Ireached out to you.
You know that was the start forme, like I'd listen to the
podcast and been doing a littlebit extra reading on different,
different books and stuff likethat, looking online as much as
I can.
But yeah, this year I want tosort of start to take the next
steps and go to some seminarsand get involved with some

(08:24):
groups and try and just bounceideas off people yeah because
that's how I learned really it'slike talking to people and made
this industry.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
I don't think you ever stop learning.
Like every single day is aschool day, yeah, yeah, I've
said it before on the podcast,like anyone that thinks they
know everything is kiddingthemselves.
Like they're all, they're stuckin some old-fashioned ways and
then they're not improving thebuildings that they're building.
But, like there's um, like evenjust now, like we've just
booked it this week, uh, we'retaking most of our team to a um,

(08:54):
an upcoming seminar, becausethere's a massive, big change to
the building code that's comingin on the 1st of may.
Again, yeah, so just trying tokeep everyone up to date with
what's going on.
But how, like, how's yourcurrent employer deal with those
types of things?
Because, like, even even lastyear, there was big changes to
the building code.
So how are you keeping up todate with those we um?

Speaker 1 (09:14):
we talk myself and my boss talk to his certifier
pretty regularly.
Um, uh, we try and stay, youknow, on top of it, especially
when the livable housing stuffcame through and all that.
It was a massive adjustmentperiod for my boss currently
because he's been doing thingsfor a way for so long, and then
it was all sort of new to me,which was probably a good thing

(09:35):
because I was able to see itfrom a different perspective.
But we sort of work togetherand always try and stay on top
of what's coming up and anyemails that come through from
the QVCC or master builders.
We try and stay on top ofwhat's coming up and any emails
that come through from the QVCCor master builders.
Like, we try and stay on top ofthat.
I actually saw today we've gotan email from one of our office
ladies about a seminar thatshe's sending my boss and I to a

(09:55):
bit later in the year.
So it'll be the same one, mate.
Yeah, about a month's time yeah,I think it's that one.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah, um, so I'll probably see you there, but, um,
oh, I think it's reallyimportant.
You can't just go to work everyday and keep doing the same
thing.
I've spoken about it a fewtimes on the podcast.
Probably one of the biggesteye-openers for me was not.
Well, it was a while when I wastransitioning from being a

(10:19):
subcontract carpenter to abuilder, I started going to
seminars and I'd never been to atimber queensland seminar and
so I went along.
Um, it was quite expensive, Ithink back at the time, like 380
bucks or something.
Um, and so if you signed up andbecame a member, you got a
discount.
So we did that and I walked inthe room and I sat there and

(10:42):
like, at the end of it, theystill use my.
At the end of the day, they askfor feedback and on my feedback
form I wrote that every singlebuilder and engineer should be
made to attend this course, andbut they still I get all the
emails now like that is still onthe bottom of all their new
seminars like that feedback thatI gave them Because I sat in
that seminar and, like I was, Ibelieve I was a great chippy

(11:05):
like we.
We never got frames knocked back.
We, like we always passedinspections.
And yeah, yeah, I'm sitting inthis fucking seminar and like my
eyes are just growing becauseI'm looking at this screen and,
like everything, they're tellingme a lot shit, I've never done
that, I've never been told to dothat.
I didn't know you had to dothat.
That's different to what I do.
Yeah, um, and that's why Iwrote that that feedback because

(11:29):
, like, even that week we'd hada frame inspection and it had
been passed and after being inthe seminar, I was like these
jobs that I'm doing shouldn't begetting passed because I'm
doing shit wrong.
Yeah, and well, it wasn't.
Well, it was wrong, but I'dnever.
I was just doing shit the waythat I've been taught my
apprenticeship, and then I wasdoing shit the way that when I
started contracting and my bosshad told me to do so.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
I think it's really it's something our industry
needs to take a lot moreseriously, like people need to
continually like the sooner theyhurry up and bring cbd points
in yeah, everybody in theirbuilding industry, the better
what I found was crazy as achippy is you know about how you
now have to tape the windowsand flash the windows and all
that sort of stuff when we foundout about that on the ground

(12:14):
level.
You know, like from ourinspectors and certifiers, and
you need to start taping windows, like you can't just run around
the house and you know, cut outthe square and throw the paper
in the bin.
You got to actually do this nowwith the with the tape.
It was amazing once we starteddoing it, watching like new
homes in the street or just youknow, viewing how many people

(12:35):
were or were not doing it, andthen going back and having those
like a beer with your mates whoare chippies and going, are you
boys doing this?
And they're like, nah, what areyou talking about?
Like it was crazy how long ittook for people to catch on.
And still now I drive around thenew estates we're in, I see
guys, the apprentices runningaround cutting the square
windows out, not taping windows.
I'm like how is this not just astandard in the industry?

(12:57):
Well, it is a standard in theindustry.
Why is not everyone up to speedwith it?
Why don't they do it?
Why?

Speaker 2 (13:03):
is not everyone up to speed with it, and why don't
they do it Everyone?
I guess people don't see thevalue in it and I think the main
reason it is as bad as it is isbecause there's no
accountability, like there'svery well, I don't know.
I shouldn't speak for everyone,I guess, but like I know a lot
of certifiers, engineers, thatlike do lots of work and quite

(13:28):
often don't even get out oftheir car to do an inspection
Like we'll send a few photos of.
Do the drive-by on the street,have a look?
Yeah, looks all right.
I've got mate builders that Iargue with because they're like,
oh fuck, mate, my certifierdoesn't even get out of the car,
he just pulls out the front,gives me a certificate.
I'm like, well, you're sort ofspruiking about it, but really
that's shit.
You need to take ownership andstep up and actually make sure

(13:51):
you're delivering.
What you should be deliveringDoesn't help anyone.
No, it just makes the wholeindustry get a worse name than
what it's already got.
I'm really excited, mate, tosee someone like you're 25 years
old.
I think the industry's likethis year actually 2025, like I
honestly feel like, like I knowmy training business, live, life

(14:13):
Build is just exploding.
But I also feel like theindustry like last year it
started to happen, and I justfeel like we're about to just to
just have this massive changelike there's and probably got a
lot to do with social media likethere's a lot of people now
starting to talk about betterbuilding practices, healthy
homes, yeah, um, I feel likethere is people in the industry,

(14:38):
like some of the bodies in thatnow, that are really pushing
these, like people are aware ofthe changes.
And I think the other reallybig, important thing is there's
a lot of homeowners now, I think, that are more on top of this
than trades and builders, and soyou've got homeowners now
holding trades and builders abit more accountable.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
Absolutely.
I've noticed a massive increasein the amount of private
building inspections we getbefore we hand a house over.
So it's part of my job to handthe house over to the client and
also liaise between theinspector, the client and myself
right at that end, and it'sbecoming more and more popular
that they're switched on know,know the process, or at least a

(15:18):
little bit about what should behappening, how does that work?

Speaker 2 (15:21):
I've never had that done and I see I watch these.
Uh, who's a guy on instagram?
The?

Speaker 1 (15:26):
buddy the tiktok inspector, oh man non-compliant.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
I would.
I've.
I've reached out like I wanthim on the podcast.
I want to have a chat to himand look, I'd love him to come
to my jobs and just see ifthere's anything that we can
improve on.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
But man, he's hard.
I reckon he's hiding from allthe people he's exposing.
No, I like him's.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
I like him, I think like fair enough If you've done
shit wrong, like.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
There's nothing.
I mean he's there, he shows, hepulls the extract out of the
NCC of what's wrong, like it'sall you know legitimate what
he's doing.
But yeah, no, it's.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
So how does it work?
Like so what's?
I would assume that that'ssomething that possibly has to
get written into the contract,or it's not just something that
you get to the end of the joband the client's like, hey, I'm
getting this private inspectiondone.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
From what I see, that's sort of the
administration side that I don'treally see.
But from the way we sort of runit or it has run for the past
few that we've handed over isthat the client literally just
engages the private inspector, Ithe private inspector, and
they'll be like, hey, we've gotthis inspection coming up and
then the office sort oforganizes that the inspector

(16:32):
goes and does it.
We get the full report and thatgets handed to me with all the
different things in there, andthen I work through that with
the subcontractors to eitherrectify or to discuss with the
client what's going on or whythings are like that.
And, um, yeah, normally it goespretty smoothly and it's, yeah,
it's so what's some of thethings they're picking on?

(16:52):
a lot of.
It's really it's just a lot ofpaint defects, um, just little
things here and there um paintdefects.
There might be, um a scratch inthe glass or something like
that on a window.
Little things that you reallyhave to look for, and that's
what they're paid to do.
They really go through thehouse with a fine-tooth comb Not

(17:12):
that they shouldn't do that orwe shouldn't do that.
It's just they're lookingreally hard for things that are
obviously regular ticketed items.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yeah, I think it's a good thing.
I think our industry,personally, I believe our
industry, every home should havemore compulsory inspections,
like the I don't know, like Iknow you get the frame, like you
get your footing inspection,you get your slab inspection,
you get your frame inspection,those types of things.

(17:40):
But like I personally believethere should be a inspection
done at, let's say, the buildingwraps on and the windows are in
.
Yeah, to make, because for meand look, I never like if you
had asked me this four or fiveyears ago, I would have told you
a completely different story.
But knowing what I know now,like that that's the most

(18:02):
important part of the bill.
Like getting that enveloperight.
I was, I was taught through mytime and um by lots of builders
that like the cladding or thebrickwork or like that was your
weather defense, yeah, butultimately it's.
It's not like your buildingwrap needs to be your, your
watertight layer or yourairtight layer, and really the

(18:23):
cladding's a bit of a bonus so,yeah, that's the oldest trick in
the book, isn't it?

Speaker 1 (18:27):
get the inspection after the, after the paper and
the windows are in to, to tryand uh, not get done for that
sort of stuff oh no, we stillget your engineers inspection,
yeah, but I think that's areally crucial element that gets
missed.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
Um, it shits me, mate , when you drive around like you
see people have thrown thepaper on and the shit flapping
in the breeze, or the paper onlylines up with the tops of the
windows and you got the topthree or four hundred mil of the
frame with nothing on it orit's um yeah, I think there
definitely needs to be moreinspections around.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
Yeah, building wraps, window installations and
instillate installation ofinsulation yeah, 100 I've
learned so much just fromlistening to the podcast about,
like, healthy homes and all thatsort of stuff, and it's crazy
to hear the different levels andhow far you can really go with
it to improve the quality ofhome that you're building.
But, like you say, you drivearound some of these new estates

(19:20):
and you see not just newestates could be.
You know renovations and allthat sort of stuff as well, but
drive around you see the poorquality of installation, you
know, and it's just like whatare you doing?
Yeah, it's not helping anyone.
Yeah, no one's getting whatthey're paying for.
How can you?
Or even like, the big thing forme is like how can you walk
away from that?
As a chippy, like I held myhead pretty high about

(19:42):
everything I did.
I wanted to be proud of it.
When I walked away and you seethe standard of some things and
it's like, wow, that's prettyaverage so how have you got to
where you are, mate?

Speaker 2 (19:54):
because, like, I've only like, literally, we've only
met whatever 40 minutes ago, anhour ago.
Uh, we've had a couple oflittle chats on instagram.
Yeah, like, you seem likeyou're pretty level-headed, you
know quality, like even just theway you're answering what we're
talking about.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
Most 25 year old superwars wouldn't have a clue
I'd try really hard basically ifI and I'd take it pretty
personally how I do my job um,always have maybe that comes
from sport right, always wantingto get to the next level and
trying to chase that dream down,I guess.
And then that competitivenature has always been in me.
I've always been like that, soI guess that translated directly

(20:31):
into building and constructionand being carpenter, like as an
apprentice.
I wanted to be a tradesman, soI would do stuff that would make
me, you know, become a bettertradesman.
We'll get Like what give ussome examples.
Oh, just, you know, never standaround being on your phone,
always working hard.
I always wanted to.

(20:51):
If my boss was like do you wantto do this?
Yeah, I want to do this, evenif I didn't know how to do it.
If I didn't know how to nailsomething or show me how to do
it, don't do it for me, teach mehow to do it.
That was, I guess, always theway I was, because I wanted to
actually do it and that's justsort of carried through.
That's how I do most things, Iguess.
And same with supervising.

(21:12):
You know it was humbling beingback at the start.
It felt like I was at groundzero, day one, just started my
apprenticeship and buildingagain, which is ridiculous
because I've been around it forlong enough now.
But it was like all right,let's knuckle down, let's do it.
So, big hours researching,looking things up.
That's why I messaged you, likeyou know, here you talk about,

(21:32):
told your supervisor all thetime what does he do?
That's good, because I'm goingto try and do that because it
sounds like it works for him.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
it depends on the day mate.
Today todd's been getting a lotof whinged out, a lot but um,
but uh, yeah, so just just gochase it down, go get it if you
want it, go go work for it anddo it, you know you're, like you
did some part of your answerjust saying is what I would have
said to you, like I think partof the reason why todd is such a
good supervisor for me isbecause he he treats my business

(21:59):
like his business, yeah, likehe takes it very personally and,
I think, across the board, likeit doesn't matter, like I.
My opinion is that, and I thinkyou and I are probably quite
similar Um, like any anyone thatI've ever worked for, like I've
treated their business likemine.
Yeah, I want people like, causeI I know how I would feel if it

(22:21):
was my business and someonefucked something up or didn't do
something right, or, um, thehouse was sold and five years
down the track, someone foundsomething that wasn't right.
Like, so I think anybody,anybody at a supervision level,
yeah, you've got to treat itlike it's your business.
But even at a carpenter, likean apprentice level or whatever,

(22:42):
I believe that's one of theeasiest ways to progress through
life.
If you put as much effort intoa business as if you would if it
was your own, your employer isgoing to see that and you will
constantly keep growing.
Yeah, if you're just turning upevery day and just doing the
same shit, following the samerules or guidelines that you

(23:04):
know you have to do every day,you're never going to fucking
progress, exactly like you'vegot to keep improving yeah, I
think, a big thing I got taughtin sport as well.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
It was like if you want to be something, so say you
want to be a professional footyplayer or a basketball player
or a tennis player, whatever itis, you have to act like that,
even if you're not there yet.
You have to start training yourbrain and your mind and then
also working on your skill setto get there.
So, your brain and your mindand then also working on your
skill set to get there, you know.

(23:34):
And so I think I've justcarried that into construction,
which is what I was sayingbefore.
Like when I was an apprentice,I wanted to be a tradesman,
chippy.
So, all right, let's act like atradesman.
What would a tradesman do?
How would he?
He would go and pick up theplans and read what side sides
the door is.
He wouldn't stand there andwait for someone to come show
him, you know, or, if you don'tknow, ask and same thing.
Now, that's what I try and donow, like my boss, in my opinion
, is great builder.

(23:54):
So what does he do?
Well, he does this, this andthis.
So I go and try and do that andthat's I don't think people
understand the power of you.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
You need to act like you want to become.
Yeah, like if you huge becauseother it, it doesn't just happen
like.
You have to start acting likeyou want to be.
It's massive.
You might know the video being abasketball, but I was at a
business conference and Dr JoLukens was speaking at one of

(24:25):
Live Like Builds conferences andshowing us a video and it was a
female Australian basketballplayer and she was a female
australian basketball player, um, and she was shooting hoops
like from I don't knowbasketball, but like way back,
yeah, and like five in a row,like just straight in and then
stop the video and like um, likebasically asked what, what's

(24:49):
your opinion of her?
And everyone's like, oh, she'samazing, like that's incredible,
how does she do that?
And then keeps playing thevideo and then the numbers come
up and like you don't like, whenyou just see the five shoots,
it's like every like they talkabout a lot now in these days,
like everyone only sees the endresult.
Yeah, they don't see all thefails, all the mistakes.
And, um, on this video, likethis video was taken after the

(25:13):
normal afternoon trainingsession.
She'd stayed back and the fivein a row was like 116 to 121.
Yeah, like she'd been shootingfor two hours.
Yeah, um, and I think that'ssomething that gets overlooked.
With apprentices, withemployees, like you've got to

(25:33):
have consistency, you've got toshow up, you've got to put in
the extra yards, you've got toput in that bit of extra time
every day, like absolutely makesure the site's tidy, the site
fences shut up, the windows areall shut, like don't be in a
rush to just fuck off and gethome and get on instagram, sink
some piss with your mates.
Like that consistency, thatlittle bit of extra effort, like

(25:54):
some of my team members call itthe extra one percent yeah,
that little one percent everyday, day after day, will get you
where you want to be yeah, forsure that's not perfect every
day.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
That's something you gotta remember as well.
Or I tell myself, you knowevery day is not perfect, but as
long as you're tracking in theright direction over time it's
that whole like long graph thingright over time, a little bit
ups and downs, but you sort ofget there in the end.
So, like I say, just got to beconsistent and keep trying your
best and showing up really.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
So, apart from you, like being hard on yourself and
pushing yourself like does yourcurrent business have like kpis,
or like targets you haveIs ortargets you have to meet?
Do you have to meet budgets,timeframes, all that?

Speaker 1 (26:33):
Not that I see really anyway, so maybe there is.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
So how do you know?

Speaker 1 (26:37):
if you're doing a good job, how does it keep
getting built?
I guess they're still standingupright.
No, my boss and I I'm the onlysupervisor we talk all day,
every day, crossing paths on thephone, that sort of stuff.
It's pretty direct feedback allthe time, whether something's
going good or something's notgoing good.

(26:58):
So I think, just him being theway he is, I get that constant
feedback and gauge how thingsare, tracking and whatever.
I just ask the question too howam I going?
What am I doing bad?
We had a six-month review Tellme what I'm not doing.
Well, that's annoying you andor something I need to get
better at, and we had a bit of achit-chat and all right, cool,

(27:21):
that's what I'm going to work onnow.
Let's go do that.
I'm doing this, this and this.
Right, I need to do this, thisand this to get no that is goal.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
Well, that every single employee should be doing
that.
That's the only way to improve.
Like, if you don't know, you'refucking up what you're doing
wrong.
You, boston, like those otherteam members, don't like how do
you know to improve on?

Speaker 1 (27:38):
you don't, I guess.
But and every boss is different, right?
Some bosses you know I'veworked for in the past, they'll
tell you straight away if you'redoing bad.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
Some aren't that way inclined that I want to bark at
you all day, so you have to goand look for the information to
get the feedback, but even theones that are barking at you
every day and like there's,there's always room to ask yeah,
yeah, absolutely like.
What can I do better?
What would make me a betteremployee?

Speaker 1 (28:04):
like I don't know if that's, it's all old-fashioned
stuff, but I feel like it's,it's just gone, like it doesn't
happen much anymore yeah, I wasvery lucky, I guess, with my
upbringing, mom and dad prettyjust hard-working people and dad
always used to say they're bothor dad's in financial planning,
life insurance, that sort ofindustry, so nothing to do with

(28:24):
trades.
I was the first tradie in myfamily.
You know dad's in that industryand all his brothers are in law
and entrepreneurs and all thatsort of stuff.
So yeah, it's completelyseparate.
But I guess it's the principlesand the values of turning up
doing the work.
Dad always used to say when wewere at school have you done the
work?
You know it's like yeah, dad,yeah, I didn't really quite

(28:45):
didn't grasp that until I wentout and had to, you know, try
and prove myself as an athlete,prove myself as a chippy and now
supervisor.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
You know you have to do the work hey, you were like
you're pretty, like you switchedon for 25 year old.
But even just that comment likethat it blows my mind.
Like because people don't thinklike that, like people don't
think I have to prove myself,like people just think they're
entitled, they show up to work,shit happens, they're going to
get a pay rise Like no one.
Like to me, that is gold, thatis an awesome employee.

(29:16):
Like someone that's thinkinglike what do I need to improve
on?
What do I need to get better ator prove?
Like proving stuff.
Like there's so muchentitlement these days, everyone
wants to have the carpentrybusiness or be the builder yeah,
without doing the two, five,ten years experience and having
learning all the hard mistakesand all those sorts of things,

(29:39):
which, which I guess is fine if,like for people like yourself
that are actually reaching out,yeah, and wanting feedback, um,
and getting advice.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
I feel like it's a bit naive if you don't.
You know, if I wasn't to reachout to you and seek some advice,
I could just see myself fallingflat on my face pretty quickly
and I think that embarrassmentkind of scares me into.
You know, asking questions andtrying to find the answers out,
because it would be a prettysteep landing curve if you
didn't do this sort of stuff,you know.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
So I love it, mate.
Mate, like one thing, a biglesson in my life, and I like I
never did it at school and Ireally never did it for the
first probably 15 years of mycareer, but and like, even now,
like knowing what I know anddoing what I do, like I really
enjoy asking questions, yeah,and like it's something for a
long, a big part of my life.
I just sat on my hands, I Ididn't ask questions, I was too

(30:33):
embarrassed, I didn't wantpeople to think I didn't know
stuff, yeah, whereas now Iprobably bug the shit out of
people with questions.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
Yeah, I know, some days I call my boss.
You know, even yesterdayafternoon it was 2.30.
I'm like I swear this is thelast phone call for the day he
goes.
Last phone call for the day hegoes.
Yeah, sure, no worries, what'sup?
You know, I had a chat aboutsome different things coming up,
just because I'd rather ask andknow and learn and find out the
answer.
Then you know well, it comesback to that treating the

(31:00):
business like your own, like I'dtake it personally if we didn't
get an inspection on footingsand concrete turns up or
something like that.
Like that would really annoy meand upset me.
I'm sure it would upset him too.
So just trying to stay ahead ofthings like that and ask
questions, it's invaluable.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
So what sort of systems are in place to like do
you have job schedules?
Do you have any apps that youtick the task off?

Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yeah, I made my own with the help of my boss, of
course.
I run sheets for every job andstuff, so I just print them out
for each job.
They've got stage one, two andthree.
I'm very like I have to writeit down.
You know I have to physicallycross something off or write it
down and just go through thechecklist.
I'm not someone who can likehave 50 things in their brain

(31:45):
and just remember them like that.
You know I've got to have a runsheet, go through it.
've ordered this, I've orderedthat.
Yes, it's been requested,booked, that sort of stuff,
confirmed.
So they're like my personalthings that no one else sees
because they don't need to knowthat stuff.
But we've got our work calendarthat I do all the scheduling
and all that, all that sort ofstuff through there and my boss

(32:05):
has a bit of input on that whenhe needs to or he'll steer me in
the right direction.
Like you know, I think we couldbring this forward or push that
out, or you're getting a bittoo close on this and yeah,
that's basically how we runthings so you don't have a full
schedule from start to finish um, in a way, yes, but not not

(32:26):
like all pre-planned out,because we've got so many jobs
on the go, sort of in stages I'dsay, but yeah, each stage is
planned out, ready to go, yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
Yeah, no, I find it really interesting, just yeah,
finding out how other buildersdo this.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah, and we probably don't have that pressure as
much, because a lot of them arespecs for himself, you know.
So we don't have to necessarilygive a handover date or
anything like that.
It's like, all right, we'restarting these, we've got these
ones coming up, this is thestandard we build them to and
the time frame that we shouldroughly be tracking along.
Go for it, go make it happengeez, that'll be.

Speaker 2 (33:05):
Uh, that wouldn't be too bad some of the time, but,
um, so, mate, what's your goalslike?
Where do you want to end up?

Speaker 1 (33:11):
Definitely as a builder.
I am with my brother as well.
I've mentioned before he's anapprentice for us.
I think my brother and I teamup and take it on together.
Go start building some houses.
Is he currently working for you?
Yep, he's a second yearapprentice for us for who we're
working for now and he loves ittoo.

(33:32):
He listens to the podcast aswell.
I've got him on to it.
Very good, keep spreading theword, mate.
Yeah, so yeah, eventually, butyou know no set date or anything
like that.
I'm just focusing on enjoyingthe opportunity I've got now and
learning as much as I can, andeventually we'll get there.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
But yeah, that's the end goal, yeah no, like I said
before, I think it's reallyexciting times for people like
yourself.
Younger guys like we're seeinga massive influx in our live
like build my training business,so people that uh either still
carpenters, uh supervising all,and like working through on
their way to get their billslicensed yeah, reaching out and

(34:10):
signing up with us and justlearning everything they need to
learn.
But what we're seeing is,besides having access to all the
documents, the systems, library, everything we have, just being
able to involve themselves in acommunity.
So we've got guys and girls inour community that aren't
builders yet, right through toguys that have been builders for

(34:31):
35 years, and so young blokeslike yourself like being
involved in a community likethat that just has access to
this wealth of knowledge.
Yeah, like you can ask anythinglike whether it's to do with
any type of trades, anymaterials, any products, any
labor, like whether it's to dowith costs, like suppliers, like

(34:52):
um, we just see those guys justreally like skyrocketing.
Yeah, and I think to myself likefar out, like if I had access
to a group like this when I wasin my mid-20s I would be 10
years ahead of where I am nowyeah like it really excites me,
like because the industry hasgot a lot of room for
improvement and like I thinkit's happening.

(35:15):
Yeah, like you young guys aregoing to be the one that really
make it happen.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, it's exciting, like it is sort of echoing
throughout the industry, like alot of my mates obviously I've
got lots of mates around my agein the industry and like we're
all talk about it.
You know, like really takingthe initiative and doing the
things that are going to help usdoing things now they're going
to help us later in life.
Like let's don't just do it thehard way because that's the way
that our bosses did it orthat's the way that it has to.

(35:41):
You think it has to be, becausethat's how long how it's been.
Take the initiative, starttrying to find things out for
yourself.
Reach out to guys like yourselfwho have done it, been there,
done it, worn the shirt, madeall the mistakes, and can offer
some advice to guys like us tohelp us just get over that first
hump and then keep going fromthere.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
It's amazing Now, with everything I've done, I see
so many references fromsporting, the sporting fields
you think about, like thequeensland nrl team, like what
do they do every time they gointo um camp for the year?
they get the older players thereoh, yeah, the guys that have
been played 20, 20 for 20 yearsor played 100 games and they get

(36:27):
them there telling them thestories, geeing them up,
learning from their experiences.
You hear about those stories somuch in sporting circles and
yet when it comes to theconstruction industry it's like,
well, it's not anymore, it'sstarting to turn, but for a long
time it's been.
People are scared to sharethose stories and probably maybe

(36:48):
even a little bit embarrassed.
They don't want to ask thequestions.
Why do you think?

Speaker 1 (36:51):
that is, why wouldn't people want to share their
journey?
Because, coming from a sportingbackground, it was the best
thing ever when ex-NBL playersor guys who had a little bit of
NBA experience would come totraining just because they were
in town.
You just watch them and you'rein awe and you just want to chew
their ear off and ask abouttheir experiences and stuff, and
they're more than happy to tellit because they're proud of it.

(37:13):
Do you think that's part of whybuilders don't want to share it
?
Because they're not proud of itor they don't think they've
done as well as what they shouldhave, or oh look, I speaking
from my own experience.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
I think a lot of it is to do with um.
Like people feel ashamed thatthey should know more.
Uh, they feel ashamed to puttheir hand up and because they,
I I feel well, I don't.
I know there are so many peoplein our industry that are living
paycheck to paycheck, um onface value, like they look like

(37:47):
they're killing it.
Social media has, I think, madeit a lot worse, but I think
people feel ashamed to put theirhand up and really expose the
truth about their businesses andabout their knowledge.
They might be incredibletradesmen or incredible builders
, but, yeah, they're embarrassedthat they don't understand the
business.
I think I like, I know, I wasfor a very long time like, yeah,

(38:09):
I was like, fuck, I'm buildingmulti, multimillion-dollar homes
.
I've got a massive crew.
I should know how to do thisshit.
I'm not going to put my hand upand admit that I don't.
It's the worst mistake I evermade because it just put me
through years of hell and a lotof stress.
I don't know.
Definitely, social media, let'sface it, there's a lot to live

(38:35):
up to these days.
Like you watch all these tradesonline that they've all got
their new dual cars with theircanopies and their $40,000 tool
trailers, and they all look niceand pretty and all got their
hair and beards done like it's.
There's a lot going on likethere's a lot to live up to.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
Yeah, it's pretty daunting.
It can can be I.
For guys like us, it seems likea really big step away, you
know, and obviously it is.
There's lots of years of hardwork that have gone into getting
people to that position, butthat's why I'm inclined to reach
out and sort of find out whatthose guys have done, like
yourself.

(39:07):
How did you get here?
Because it seems like a longjump away for someone at 25
right now, you know.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
So yeah, I don't think it is, mate.
I think, just from ourconversation today, I I want to
stay in contact with you and Ithink, mate, I have no doubt by
the time you're 30, you willhave your own successful um
building business.
So you got a good head on yourshoulder, you're asking the
right questions.
You, you're reaching out,you're getting help.
So that's the first part of it,like getting that help reaching

(39:35):
out, asking questions.
I do firmly believe.
But, like in our industry,there is a lot that just can't
be learned without years ofdoing it.
Yeah, like you, you've got tohave the runs on the board.
Yeah, like you just can't go.
Yeah, what's the board?
Yeah, like you just can't go.
Yeah, what's the example?
What do you reckon?
Oh, mate, I'll probably getmyself in the shit.

(39:55):
Someone will complain.
But like, there's a guy Nothingagainst him, I don't know him,
but there's a guy on Instagram,another builder from Melbourne
that I see Like he started hisown training thing, he's doing
some seminars and stuff, andlike his fucking bio, in his bio

(40:17):
it it's got 50 million, like 50m plus, completed projects and
every time, every time it likeit doesn't.
I've hardly seen it, but I'veseen it enough to think what
does who cares?
Yeah, I know builders that do50 mil a month.
Like why?
Why do you think putting 50plus million completed projects
makes you an expert?
Yeah, because you might havedone 50 million plus completed
projects and in the next 12months shit might turn

(40:39):
pear-shaped and you could gobroke.
Yeah, um, it's probably one ofmy biggest pet hates in life.
Like, I hate that everythinggets related to dollar values.
Yeah, um, like, we've done over200 million dollars worth of
projects now and in the yearsI've had my building business
and I don't know everything.
I'm not perfect.
I'm still learning every singleday.

(41:00):
Yeah, but I definitely believeI've got enough runs on the
board now that, like, I knowwhat to do to make it keep going
successfully.
I, I think our industry is it'sa long-term game.
Yeah, there's a lot of peoplelike you see it you almost see
it every month like there is somany trades and building
businesses and even supplyingbusinesses that start up.

(41:22):
They they go really well forone, two or three years and then
they're either gone or they'veslowed right down or they've had
to go and work for somebodyelse because it didn't pan out.
I was actually only talking toa big accounting firm yesterday
about this and they were sayingit's super common in our
industry, yeah, to see likesomeone will go out, a trader or

(41:45):
builder, they'll start theirown business, so they'll sign up
to the accountant firm and gettheir books and stuff done and
they'll have two or three goodyears and then decide to build
their own house and then justget themselves in a heap of
financial stress, a lot ofpressure, and then realize, oh

(42:05):
fuck, I did that a bit early,didn't really understand my
numbers, and now I've put all mymoney into this house that I
thought was mine, it's notreally mine, it's a tax man.
And uh, now I've got to try andwork my way out of it.
And it just happens over andover again and look, I did that
a bit as well.
Like it's easy in our industry.
Like you're dealing with bigdollars.
It's not like you're opening a,a retail store or a restaurant

(42:30):
and, um, like you're dealingwith 20, 30, 40, 50 bucks,
couple hundred bucks.
Like, yeah, but you can be atradie and have a carpenter gang
and take on your first frameand it might be 40 000, yeah,
and you think, holy shit, that'sawesome, 40 000 bucks, I'm
gonna go and buy a new dual card.

(42:50):
Um, you do bloody low-docfinance.
You get the new dual cabbecause you think out of that
$40,000, you're going to make$20,000.
And you don't understand whatyour boss used to deal with.
You don't understand timeframes, you don't understand
insurances, you don't understandall the fixings and fittings
that have to get bought.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
I 100% learned that lesson.
Like I think I was telling youearlier, when my boss was
retiring, he gave me two framesto give me a head start.
You know like, look, take these, take your brother, go do these
two frames.
And same thing.
Like I saw the big number atthe end and I was like, oh sweet
, like it's going to be awesome,it's a great start.
It was good for us at the time.

(43:28):
But you know, when I did them Iwas, I took the time to like I
wrote out every single cost,exactly how many hours it took
us to do you know frames, thefeats, the fix out, every like
clip and nails, like calculatedit all out and what I actually
made at the end of it, minus allthe other stuff.
You may as well work forsomeone, it was not far off it

(43:50):
and I was like, okay, maybe weneed to change tactics a little
bit about how we're going to dothis because I don't think this
is going to buy us.
You know, the big boat in thebig house, benny like I reckon
we need to get a little bitquicker or you know, like just
stuff like that it was.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
I'm glad you said that, because that I see that
happening so much in ourindustry, even with older trades
.
Like it shits me that peoplethink to get more money they
need to be paid more.
Yeah, because that's not how itworks.
Yeah, and ultimately, thosesame people that are expecting
that are the same people thatare whinging everything's
starting to cost too much.
Yeah, like I was.
I don't know why, but it wasone thing that I was.

(44:25):
I don't even know how how ithappened or why did it, but I
was always like I would trackeverything.
Like right, when I very firststarted contracting, I knew the
finished price I was going toget for the job.
I worked it back as best I could, how many hours we needed to
get done, what we needed to getdone each day, and I'll admit,

(44:45):
like the first probably twoyears, like we were literally
making hundreds maybe sometimes$1, on each job we did, and
that's what pushed me to scaleLike that's why I ended up mid
twenties with 40 odd carbonersCause I was like, fuck, 500
bucks Isn't good, but if we cando 20 a week, that's good money.

(45:07):
Yeah, but like one of the, Ihad an apprentice, a guy we put
through his time and, um, he wasjust keen as, like when he
finished he just wanted to dohis own work and he was.
He was a really good carpenter,yeah, and so we did a deal.
I said, oh mate, look, we'vegot a lot of work coming up.
The next one we got.
The next year we got because atthe time I was using some

(45:28):
contract carpenter gangs as wellto help us out.
Yeah, and we'd had someconversations and he'd asked me
what they were getting and like,same deal.
He's like, fuck you serious yeah, they're getting 49 000 to do
the frame on that job.
So yeah, it was if you want tohave a crack, you can have a
crack.
And um, he did.
He ended up we.
We basically stopped hisemployment with us and he we

(45:49):
helped him out, guide.
He set up his own carpentrybusiness and got an apprentice
and he actually one of our othercarpenters went with him and
this is probably 12, 14, mighteven be 15 years ago and I still
remember going to that jobevery couple of days and going
mate, you need to get moving.
It's like what do you mean,mate?

(46:11):
What do you mean we're it?
it's like you're not mate if youdon't get moving, you're going
to be paying me.
Like what do you mean?
And make that?
Like that just kept happeningand happening and he just didn't
understand it and he, uh, likeI don't know, I I had a bit of a
soft spot for him, I helped himout a bit, but, yeah, he
literally got to a point wherehe, like he was drawing all that

(46:37):
, he was getting on that frame,yeah, and he still had weeks of
work to do and we ended upcoming to an agreement that we
just we sort of met in themiddle and finished it, um,
finished it on early rate.
But I just feel like thathappens a lot, like people don't
understand what it actuallytakes to go out on your own and

(46:58):
get into it.
And they and instead ofthinking, holy shit, for me to
make money, I actually need towork harder, I need to get shit
done, I need to get moreorganized they just think, oh
shit actually.
Uh, mr builder, man, I nevermade any money out of that, so,
uh, on the next one, I'm goingto charge you two thousand
dollars more yeah, to covermyself for the last one to cover
me for being useless and slowand not being organized.

(47:18):
It doesn't work like that.
No, definitely not.
But, um, mate, I think you'regoing to do really well.
I'm you've lucky's, actuallygot um sent through some
questions and, uh, I printedthem out here but we haven't got
to him yet.
But I'm going to hand them overto you, matt, because I want to
make sure when, when you sentthem through, I quickly glanced
and I'm like holy shit, this isgonna like this guy switched on.
I could tell by your questions.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
So, thank, you can't take all the credit.
My brother sat down with me andwe put our heads together, so
shout out to my brother, ben,for some of the input as well.
But I guess we'll start off.
We sort of touched on a littlebit of this stuff, but we'll
start with the first one.
Todd, your supervisor I hearyou talk about him all the time
on the podcast.
Tell me why he's such a goodsupervisor and why you keep him

(48:00):
on, and what value does he addto your business?

Speaker 2 (48:03):
We could talk all day about this but, like I touched
on before, he treats I dobelieve he treats the business
as his own.
There's definitely room forimprovement, but overall I'm
very confident.
Like he's been with me longenough and I think where a lot
of this comes from.
Like I've got heaps of imagesin my head right now, like

(48:26):
through the years, like turningup to site whether it's a
footing inspection, frameinspection or even just for a
site meeting and walking aroundand like just hearing Todd talk
to those contractors, talk tothe team, point things out that
are wrong, tell them how to fixit, and like I've gotten the
truck heaps of times and justthought, fuck yeah, like he's,
he's actually picking things upand probably being a bit harsher

(48:48):
on things, like on quality,than what I may have been.
So just what makes him a greatsupervisor is that I have 100%
confidence that he will delivera quality product.
He understands the values of mybusiness.
He respects my business.
I think that's a really big onethat gets overlooked these days

(49:09):
.
Respect, yeah, like he respectshaving a great job.
Uh, he respects that we reallylook after him.
Um, he quite often, like willbring ideas to the table like,
hey, we need to improve on this,or this is this trade's shit.
We need to start looking foranother one or um, just all

(49:32):
those little things thatbasically come back to him
treating the business like it'shis own.

Speaker 1 (49:37):
Yeah, all those one percenters you're talking about
before they?
Just add up for you, do they?

Speaker 2 (49:41):
yeah, probably the biggest thing he lets us down on
he fucking never cleans histruck.
Oh, really, like that.
Uh, I'm anal on shit like that,like that.
To me that's representing yourbusiness, like your work vehicle
should be clean all the time,tidy, neat, respectable.
Yeah.
But, mate, if that's the worst,like everything else he does is
pretty good.
True, that's probably one youcan let slide a little bit.

(50:02):
But I'm a bit like yeah, I likelike washing the car and keeping
it clean, yeah, um, and I guessto go the other way, like
probably probably his biggestdownfall because I think this is
important advice as well is hebecomes too friendly with people
on site.
Yeah, and look, don't get mewrong workplaces, like you've

(50:22):
got to be mates, you've got toget on.
But it can get to a point likeprobably not so much with the
team but more so contractorsLike if you let contractors
contractors, if you give them aninch, they'll take two miles.
Avoid that so you can't holdtheir hand.
You've got to be tough on them.
Uh, that's, that's definitelytodd's biggest downfall.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
Yeah, I struggled with that going from being a
chippy one of the boys now yousee that like we're all mates,
especially the guys we work withnow.
You know, because we weresubbing to who I'm working for
now as Chippies.
Yeah, you know, like the firstmonth I'm walking around like
hey, mate, how are you going?
Good to see you.
Yeah, I'm supervising now allthis sort of stuff and it was
all like lovey-dovey good to seeyou boys, and then I, the job I

(51:17):
had to do, and it's like Ican't be like that with you guys
anymore.
You know we can be mates but atthe end of the day you've got
to do a, b and c and if youdon't deliver I have to put my
foot down and wear thesupervisor hat first, and now I
can be your mate afterwards.
It's no good for anyone.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
Mate, like people, look, I'll put my hand up.
I've been bad for it over theyears as well.
But yeah, the more you give,more they take.
Yeah and right down to.
We just had a big team meetingin the last week with my whole
team right down to the sitecleanliness Like if my own team
isn't keeping the site clean,how can we hold the other trades

(51:45):
accountable?
Because if they show up likethe sparky comes to do a fit off
, if the job's not swept out andtidy, how can I hold him
accountable for sweeping hismess out after he's done his cut
and strip or done his final fitoff Because he's going to go?
Oh, there was already rubbishthere, so just all that type of
stuff 100%.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
The biggest one I have is we have when we get the
benchtops installed.
I put these signs on there thatsay you know, my boss gave them
to me.
Do not put anything on herebums, cigarettes, lunchboxes,
the whole lot keep it off thestone.
And literally just last week mybrother, as an apprentice, was

(52:21):
doing some skirting on the tilesand left the gun sitting on the
benchtop.
I said, bennyny, what are youdoing, mate?
Like read the sign.
He's like yeah, put it downsoftly though I know you put it
softly.
I watched you do it, waiting tosee if you'd read the sign.
But it's not about how youtreated it, it's about the
painter who's just over therewatching you do that.

(52:43):
If you know we allow what weaccept, if you do that and they
see it, then I can't rouse onhim when they do it and then the
whole thing falls, falls down.
I might as well not have a job.
Yeah, he goes.
Oh true, okay, like cool.
So can we take the gun off thebenchtop please?

Speaker 2 (52:57):
yeah, look, that's definitely something we've um,
let slide on the last couple ofjobs and it's a pet out of mind.
Like I can't stand when youwalk into someone's house that's
near finished and there's shitsitting on benches and stuff,
drinks on finished timber andstuff like that.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
Yeah, keep it off?
Yeah, definitely, but anyway,we'll jump into the next
question.
Um, this is one that I reallywanted to know and I guess I've
sort of already answered it, butwe've answered it together.
But do you believe the pathwayto becoming a builder is
appropriate?
So now you've got to do the twoyears, two years supervision um

(53:31):
, what I'm doing at the momentand, if not, why?

Speaker 2 (53:35):
uh, look, I I definitely don't.
Yeah, I think there needs to be, um, a lot more to it.
Um, I've said a lot of timeslike saying, in saying that I, I
wouldn't have got my builderslicense if it was a bit harder
than what it was.
Um, it took me a bit over twoyears to get mine.
But, um, I believe that ourindustry has a lot of the

(53:58):
problems it has because tradesand builders are given their
license too easy.
Yeah, trades to start off with.
I believe that trades should notbe allowed to start their own
business for a minimum of twoyears after they've been signed
off.
Yeah, you, just you cannot getthe knowledge and the experience

(54:18):
you need, not, not this, noteven talk like bringing running
a business into it, but youcannot get the skills and
knowledge, experience across theboard in your apprenticeship.
And so we have all these peoplethat finish their
apprenticeship, get signed off,think they can go straight into
their own, earn the big bucksand are doing building work that

(54:42):
isn't to code and it's costingus all money.
And then that just, I think,gets worse when you throw
builders in the mix.
You have builders that don'tunderstand how I believe you
shouldn't be able to get yourbuilder's ticket unless you've

(55:03):
got, I think, four yearsprobably, experience.
And again, you just can't.
Someone like yourself you'redoing 20 to 30 jobs a year, yeah
, so maybe instead of a timeperiod, it needs to be a job
period, a job amount, because ifyou're doing 20 jobs a year, 40

(55:26):
jobs in two years, you're goingto have a shitload of
experience.
Yeah're gonna.
If you're doing 20 jobs a year,40 jobs in two years, you're
gonna have a shitload ofexperience.
Yeah, but if you well like anexample, if there was someone
that worked for me that neededtwo years experience, depending
on the size of the job and thelevel of finish, we do between
six and ten jobs a year.
So by the time they finish withus, they might have only done
15 20 jobs, yeah.
And then you go right down to abuilder that might only do one

(55:47):
or two jobs a year.
Yeah, if that person's got toget two years experience in two
years, they might do two sets offootings.
Yeah, they might do two frames,like, even though they've done
their apprenticeship.
So, yeah, maybe we need to stoptalking about time periods and
actually start talking aboutquantity of work.
Yeah competency.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
yeah, yeah, yeah yeah competency.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
Yeah, because, mate, let's face it like there is so
much to know, so much.
Like different soil types,different footing designs,
different slab designs,different ways to do framing.
Like different waterproofingrequirements.
Like roof flashings, differentwindow installations.

(56:28):
Like what material goes, whereare they fit for purpose?
Like yeah, floor finishes.
Like safety requirements.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
Like do you think that experience should be all
for one builder?
Because, let's face it, youlearn off the environment you're
in.
So right now I'm in new homesessentially I'm not dealing with
renovation work on a big scaleor anything like that so I could
get my license, go out, take ona reno job and absolutely do my

(56:55):
end because I've just I haven'tseen that or been exposed to
that sort of work before, but Isee that, yeah, I wouldn't do
this.
But you see the money and yougo.
Yeah, that's something I couldgo and do.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
Oh man, we've had carpenters come to work for us
that have spent their wholecareer doing new builds and we
stick them with us to do renosand they will stand there for
half a day scratching their headbecause they don't know how to
profile it or how to square thejob or how to make the extension
fit in with the old part of thehouse, because the old part of
the house is all out of square,like how to pick your best line,

(57:32):
and there's a lot of knowledge.
So, yeah, I definitely believein that and I actually tell when
my young guys finish their timethey want to go.
Yeah, I encourage it because,exactly like they're going to
learn something different offyou, they're going to learn
something different off shayover there.
They're going to learnsomething different over there.
So, yeah, yeah, the moreexperience you can get, the
better.
But in saying that that, likeyou can't really put one blanket
over everyone, because ifpeople work with my building

(57:54):
business, like we do everythingfrom large homes on difficult
sites, new builds, renovations,extensions, internal refurbs
yeah, like jobs with um drivencopper log piers, job with screw
piers, job with board concretepiers we do everything.
So you get a shitload ofexperience when you work with my

(58:14):
business.
So, yeah, I'm not sure.
I definitely think there needsto be a, instead of being a time
period, there needs to be aminimum quantity of work, but
then there also needs to betougher competency basis.
And look, I think again, ifthey bring CBD points into our

(58:35):
industry, it will help clean itup.
Like, even if builders havebeen building for 20 years, if
they are made to go to seminars,like just sit at the seminars,
listen to things, it's going tomake their ears prick up.
They're going oh shit, this is.
Maybe I should have been comingto these things the last 20
years.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
Yeah, Dad's industry has it and he always talks about
it.
And recently there was a big Idon't know if you call it a
royal commission, but somethingwent on where people had to get
rellicensed and all that sort ofstuff and there was a lot of
older guys that were getting theshits and wanting to leave the
industry and all that sort ofstuff.
But the ones who stuck aroundand did the extra training and

(59:14):
got those CBD points up made amassive difference.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
They can't do it quick enough.
I'm a massive advocate for it.
We've Live Like Builds actuallybeen working on our own sort of
certification model which, evenif they bring CBD in in the
future, we will be doing thatbecause we want to make sure our
builders are next level again.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
I've even noticed on that tools app which I heard of
from the podcast.
I downloaded that andsubscribed to that because I use
it all the time at work to getinformation quickly before I go
to the NCC.
But I see now it pops up wherethey're launching a program like
that soon.
So it's just cool to see thatsort of stuff happening where
you can go and get that extraknowledge and training.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
It's just a shame that it's had to be done
privately.
The government needs to supportthe industry and put money
where it needs to be.

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
True, all right.
Next question Feel like you'rein the hot seat, so another sort
of personal one for me.
But what are some things that Ican be actively doing now to
prepare myself to become abuilder that you wish you knew
when you're in my shoes?

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
mate, it's a no-brainer for me, like I.
I can tell from theconversation we've been having
like you're going to be a goodbuilder.
My advice is, mate, you the themore time, money and energy you
can put into personaldevelopment.
Like it's yeah, I don't, it'sthere's no, I don't even have
words for it.
Like it's just, it's ano-brainer.

(01:00:44):
Yeah, like, just get out there,go to seminars, learn things.
Like open your mind up and uh,just realize that, like I can
listen to a whole 7, 12, 15 houraudible book, yeah, and it
might be shit, but there'll beone sentence or one paragraph or
one chapter.
Yeah, that I won't forget, I'llwrite it down and I'll get

(01:01:07):
something from it.
So just invest time in you,mate.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
So what are some things that you've found really
useful, or different seminars orbooks, or I'm open to anything
to Stay tuned, mate.

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
Level Up is having the best event the industry has
ever seen later this year, sostay tuned, we'll be announcing
that.
Well, actually, we'll have tomake sure this podcast is out
before that.
Now, mate, I've tried a bit ofeverything now and I get a
little bit from everything.
Grant Cade's own stuff has beenmassive for me, absolutely love
it, can't get enough of it.

(01:01:44):
His 10X rule book is my go-to,like I've actually.
I just finished it this morning.
Um, I was having, I was I'vebeen really pumped for 2025, but
I was like fuck, I just I wantto get next level, and so I
actually paused another audiblebook I was listening to the
other day.
I was like fuck it, I'm goingback to the to the boss, I'm

(01:02:04):
going back to the boss, I'mgoing back to 10X.
So just finished that over thelast week and for me, that book
I haven't listened to it forabout probably 18 months.
So that's probably my sixth orseventh time I've listened to
that book and every time Ilisten to it it just drives me
more and more.
But after listening to it overthe last week, something I took

(01:02:28):
away from it was if you want to,if you want to learn things you
like number one, you have tolook up to people that are where
you want to be.
Yeah, you have to surroundyourself with like-minded people
, like absolutely a no-brainer.
And you have to make sure likeit's not just looking up to
people that are where you wantto be.
You need to make sure that it'snot bullshit.
You need to make sure they gotthe runs on the board and that
they're following through onwhat they say.
And listen to that book.

(01:02:50):
This morning we're finishing itoff.
That book's 16 years old and inthat book he rattles off.
He talks about how he writeshis journals and how he writes
his goals and shit down.
Yeah, and he gave an example ofwhat he was.
He's like like, look, this iswhat I'm writing down at the
moment and I'm sitting therethinking you've achieved all

(01:03:10):
that, and like some of them weremassive.
Yeah, and so for me, that justinspired me even more to take
what he says even more on board,because he's actually doing it.
Yeah.
So, yeah, mate, I think any,any seminar is a good seminar.
Yeah, like it can be to do withanything investing wealth,
property, finances, personaldevelopment, business, audible

(01:03:35):
books so the only things thatget listened to in my truck mate
is Spotify and Audible.
I listen to audible books andpodcasts probably 70% of the
time.
I can't listen to them all thetime, so I break them up with
some tunes and crank the tunesup yeah, just get into them.
And I don't know about you, butI find, like I used to be in

(01:03:57):
this mindset that I couldn'tlisten to them a lot because I
would lose track, like I'd losewhat was in my head or what I
was singing about or who I hadto call yeah.
But I actually find now that,like I would lose track yeah,
like I'd lose what was in myhead or what I was thinking
about or who I had to call yeah.
But I actually find now that,like getting in a bit of a
routine where, like when I pullup somewhere, I check my phone,
check my emails, check my Slackmessages, smash them out, go and

(01:04:19):
do what I've got to do yeah.
Get back in the truck.
Same thing.
Do that straight onto theaudible, yeah.
So I do that straight onto theaudible, yeah.
So I'm getting everything outof my head and then I'm focused
on what I'm listening to yeah,while I'm listening to it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
If I just really clears your head and put you in
a different state of mind and Ijust work.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
I'd turn up to the next spot, g'd up and ready to
go, like, yeah, um, but youcannot spend enough money on
yourself, like um, and Iprobably to put my money where
my mouth is.
That definitely happened lastyear.
Like I went to that jt foxseminar yeah, bought tickets.
He was on stage, he threw thisdeal out there and I was like

(01:04:58):
fuck it, I shouldn't, but I amand it was like 10 grand to
spend an hour with him and, uh,it was the best 10 grand I've
ever spent.
Getting that one-on-one timewith him gave me so much
structure.
He gave me some really keyideas.
He met me for an hour and heasked me about my businesses.

(01:05:20):
He asked what my profits were,what my income was, what my
turnover was, how many people inmy team, what my markets were,
what my company values were, andliterally just threw ideas at
me.
I jumped straight back in mytruck, I wrote them all down
like three pages of notes andimplemented every single one of
them, and some of them havegenerated millions of dollars.

(01:05:41):
Wow.
So I can't.
You've got to take that leapsometimes and just get out of
your comfort zone and just gofor it.
It's pretty good odds.
Yeah, yeah, wow.
And look that could go the otherway as well, but you're never
going to know unless you have ago.
True, and I think the otherthing, the other big turning
point, mate, that I think I'mvery different now to how I was
brought up, is I'm veryopen-minded, yeah, like, whereas

(01:06:03):
I used to hear things and seethings like oh yeah, that's all
right for you, you've got a heapof money.
Oh, you've got the time, you'vealready achieved it.
Oh, you've got a rich daddy,you've had handouts, whereas now
I'm like no, fuck it, that'sgood information.
I need to take it away andimplement it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
Yeah, it's crazy.
I've been really trying toswitch my mindset from that sort
of stuff to now be moreopen-minded and just soaking
being a sponge like why, insteadof being like, oh, that guy's
got that, you know good on him.
You know, daddy must havetipped the tin in for him, or
something like that.
Like, okay, how did he actuallyget that?

(01:06:38):
What steps did he take when hewas my age?

Speaker 2 (01:06:40):
like someone must be doing something right along the
way, there's only one differencemate between people that have
what they want to have andpeople that don't.
So they've implemented things.
Yeah, but you can have.
You can have two people that goto the same seminar and hear
the same shit.
And I I grant, actually pointedthis out like my wife and I
went to his 10x conference backin 2020 and he called the

(01:07:03):
audience out.
He's like there should havebeen 13,000 people here and like
there's like we know from thecounters at the door that
there's already 1300 orsomething that haven't even
bothered.
They paid for the ticket andthey haven't even bothered to
come.
You guys are doing well becauseyou actually turned up.
And then he goes.
I look around the room and likesome of you just sitting here

(01:07:24):
like smiling, like what the fuckthat doing?
Look at the guy beside you.
He's got a notepad out.
He's taking notes.
Yeah, like the guy taking notesis going to achieve shit.
You're sitting there smiling.
You're not going to achieveshit.
Yeah, and I I have a notepadwith me everywhere I go now and
I just write shit down.
Yeah, and that's I heard itfrom.
Uh, I call him robert kawasaki.
That, uh, whatever his name, isthe um kiyosaki, like he told

(01:07:49):
me at one of his seminars, or hesaid at one of his seminars and
it just sunk with me mate, whatthe hand does, the mind follows
100%, so just write shit down.

Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
I've been doing a lot of that lately.
I have to write it down forwork, for personal stuff.
It's amazing the difference itmakes, because I actually
remember it.
I'm not someone I think I saidbefore I'm not someone who can
just have all this informationdropped on them and then just
have it in my brain ready toaccess.
No, it's got to be on the pieceof paper written down and it

(01:08:19):
actually sinks in.
It holds you accountable.
It does.
It does hold you accountablebecause at the end of the day I
go through it and it's like,okay, I've done that, don't shit
, I haven't done that.
Better get onto that tomorrow.
I better get it done tonight,or you know.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
But even if you don't get through like I do exactly
the same thing, but even if veryrarely, there might be one or
two things.
So if there is something that'snot done before I finish that
day, I go to the next page and Iwrite finish yesterday's list.
Yeah, and that's the firstthing I do before I start the
rest of the list.
But how awesome do you feelwhether it's five things on the

(01:08:52):
list or 50, when you sit backevery single day and you see a
line item through them all?

Speaker 1 (01:08:56):
Yeah, so very satisfying, probably instant
gratification, same as being achippy Turn around at the end of
the day and you're like, wow, Ibuilt that.
You know, we did that frame,did that cladding.
It's probably the same thing,but just on a piece of paper,
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
No, you are fucking so far ahead of your time.
Like just that's a perfectanalogy, because I think that's
another area our industrystruggles Like if you're a
trader or a builder and I knowthat's the big difference
between a trader that's on siteand a builder that sits in like
when you, when your businessstarts growing and you get to a
point where you're doing a lotof admin work exactly like you

(01:09:32):
just said, whether you're aframer, whether you're a plumber
doing a fit off or an underslabor a plaster like you can look
back at the end of the day andphysically see what you've
achieved.
Yeah, but when you, yourbusiness starts to grow and you
like I think that's why I likethe notes being able to cross
things off, because it's theonly way some days that I know
I've done something- yeah.

(01:09:53):
Yeah, interesting, it's crazy.
I do it, for you're a wealth ofknowledge, man Don't know about
that, but try my best.

Speaker 1 (01:10:01):
But I do it for training days as well.
Like just conveniently in thefront of my diary.
It's got, you know, every dayof the year blocked out.
I've got a red and a greenhighlighter and at the end of
the day, if I've trained, gets agreen swipe, if I haven't
trained, gets a red swipe.
And that, like that red orgreen, really drives me
sometimes gets me over the lineto actually get up and go train

(01:10:22):
or do something.
Otherwise, yeah, I just get youlose track of what you have or
haven't done.
It's pretty easy to forgetabout it and steer off course
pretty quickly, but definitely.
Next question this is aninteresting one.
I'm keen to hear what you gotto say about this.
So every generation faces itsown adversity in the industry,

(01:10:42):
whatever that might be.
What are you currently seeingand what do you foresee within
residential construction asmajor challenges that we will
face?

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
Well, mate, this will definitely stir the apple cart,
get some complaints, buthonestly, I feel like the
biggest problems that ourindustry faces is everyone
across the board, not just newapprentices is getting lazier.
Yep, everyone across the board,not just new apprentices is
getting lazier.
Yeah, there is nowhere near thequantity of work getting done

(01:11:14):
each day now is what I believewas done 20 years ago when I was
an apprentice.
Yeah, and I think that comesback a lot to the entitlement,
yeah, and I believe that isgoing to have massive impact on
our industry.
It's to the price of housing isgoing to go up, like I said
before, like someone doesn'tmake money because they were
told they were going to get 10grand to do it, so they think

(01:11:35):
they need to charge a buildermore.
So if the builder, if everyonejust keeps paying more and more
and more and everyone keepsgetting slower and slower which
I believe is what's happeningJust saturates, the industry
with slow tradies.
Well, look, I definitely.
I do think it's a big problem,but I think that problem comes

(01:12:00):
from it's nobody's problem, likenobody's fault.
But I definitely believe thatevery apprentice needs to do
some time with a volume builder.

Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:10):
Because that's where you get your speed.
Because you can't get speed oncustom homes.
Yeah, if you do your wholeapprenticeship, it doesn't
matter what trade you are oncustom homes, you're definitely
going to get the quality, butyou just will not get the speed
100%, and so you need a bit ofexperience.
You need a foot in each camp.
You need to get the qualityfrom the custom builders and the

(01:12:31):
one-off builders.
You need to get the speed fromthe volume builders.

Speaker 1 (01:12:34):
Yeah, the last two years of my apprenticeship and
the two years I worked as aqualified chippy, we were
subcontractor chippies and itwas go, go, go Darrell, the guy
I worked for.
He was 62 or 63 at the time and, mate, he would not stop all
day, just hard working, knewexactly what was going on.

(01:12:55):
He'd seen it a thousand times,could be.
I was used to laugh.
He'd be on the other end of theslab and I'd be twiddling my
thumbs like trying to worksomething out and he would yell
the answer out from down theother end.
I go how do you even know whatI'm?
What I'm doing is?
I can hear you thinking fromhere I'm what I'm doing, what
I'm doing and I'm watching outof the back of my head.
I know you're what you'restruggling with crazy, but just

(01:13:18):
that speed.
And you know it's almost like aproduction line.
You know it's like when you geta bunch of chippies who are all
doing their job perfectly andeverything is flying through,
like it's pretty special to be apart of.

Speaker 2 (01:13:30):
I loved it anyway.
I think it's fantastic mate itreminded me of sport.

Speaker 1 (01:13:33):
Like it's like, this is like.
You know, I'm playing sportagain.
We're all doing our job.
You know we're winning as ateam.
Like it's cool, yeah, it's such.
But as well, you notice theguys who haven't had that,
because they just don't havethat second year.
That gets them to get thingsdone.

Speaker 2 (01:13:49):
But I mean, I'm really, uh, I wasn't at the time
, but I'm so glad I did twoyears of my time doing volume
work.
Yeah, it was uh.
Yeah, it taught me routines, ittaught me systems and processes
, taught me to just have process, like everything organized in
front of you.
But yeah, so I definitely think, like, uh, speed is going to
affect our industry and I thinkthe the next one that closely

(01:14:12):
follows.
That's entitlement.
Like everyone just wants thatinstant gratification now.
They want, they want to be thetradie right now.
They want to have the best carright now.
They want to do the best jobsright now.
They don't want to work theirway up to it like, um, shortcuts
aren't good for anyone.
Yeah, you've got to do the, youhave to do the hard yards,

(01:14:33):
you've got to do the work toappreciate it so how do we
change the mindset of people ofmy generation?

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
I had it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:40):
I don't think well you don't seem to have that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
Yeah, not from this conversation, I wouldn't have
picked it.
I'd like to think I don't.
I wasn't brought up that way,by any means.
Like I said, dad was alwayslike if you want something, go
to work.

Speaker 2 (01:14:55):
If you hadn't been given the opportunity to be a
supervisor, would you have gonelooking for it?
100%, you wouldn't have stayeda chippy for a bit longer.

Speaker 1 (01:15:02):
No, I would have.
Yeah, because I love it.
I love being a chippy, it'sgreat fun in the sun and all
that sort of stuff, but at somepoint I would have had to put my
foot down and go.
If I want to become a builder,I have to supervise.
Yeah, you know and it's easy tospeculate now what I would have
done I wouldn't have done.

(01:15:23):
I would have finished mybrother's time or helped my
brother finish his time with me,and then he would have been a
chippy somewhere on his own, orlots of different paths we could
have taken.
But I'm just fortunate that Igot this opportunity to do this,
which is why I grab it withboth hands, because I know a lot
of guys don't get thisopportunity early on or they
have to prove it throughdifferent other pathways and

(01:15:45):
things like that.
So, short answer yeah, I wouldhave made this happen one way or
another.
I think, um, but yeah, I'm gladthis happened this way, I'm
really enjoying it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:55):
Oh look, I don't know how to fix it.
I, I and look, until peoplehave tried things, it's really
hard to tell them, but I just,I'm a firm believer that things
like now I am like things happenso much more quickly, like
everyone wants to get from hereto there as quick as possible

(01:16:18):
and so they try and shortcuteverything.
But reality is, if you actuallydo the hard yards, you get the
knowledge, you get theexperience.
Yes, it might take you a coupleextra years to get there, but
when you get there, you've gotthis experience and you fucking
go.
Yeah, and look, I'm probably aperfect example.
Like I wanted to get therequicker.

(01:16:39):
I got there, fucking very quick, and then I spent 10 years
fucking, going around in circlesand failing and dealing with
all the bullshit that comes withnot doing shit right.
Yeah, um, and like I've talkedabout this a few times like
finished my time by 21 um subcon.
Like had 40 odd chippies by thetime I was 25.

(01:16:59):
I had my builder's license at27 um.
Was doing multi-million dollarhomes by the time I was 28 um
and then in my early likebetween 28 and 35, almost went
broke three times until I pulledmy head in got all the business
experience and knowledge andself-development that I needed
over a three-year period and wasliterally able to like I don't

(01:17:25):
know the words for it, but likeliterally reach my targets in a
four-year period that I'd takenthe last 15 years trying to
achieve.

Speaker 1 (01:17:37):
But would you change how quickly you got there at the
start?

Speaker 2 (01:17:42):
Well, that's what I said before.
Like I wish, mate, if someonehad a, if there had been someone
around.
Like if social media had beenaround when I was your age, like
when I was 25, mate, there wasno.
Like it's only 19 years ago,but there was no.
Well, at least there was.
I wasn't using it, yeah, but Iwas looking for the builders to

(01:18:02):
look up to mate.
I've talked about it before.
Like, mate, I'd run into billsat hardware and ask them
questions.
They'd say, mate, that's theindustry, fucking, harden up,
deal with it.
Um, like I wanted builders toreach out to and give me advice
and I wish back then I had, Ihad the I guess I'd almost say
balls to go to seminars.

(01:18:23):
Like I was embarrassed to go toseminars.
I didn't, yeah, like, I thoughtthey were rubbish, like and,
and a lot of that I think comesfrom the way I was brought up.
Like, yeah, um, but yeah, Iwould have like if, if there was
opportunity, if there wassocial media and there was.
Look, I do it now.
Like mate, I see guys on socialmedia, um, that are same age or

(01:18:47):
older than me, that are likedoing something unbelievable or
they've got a detail or they've.
Yeah, like something.
I reach out to them like hey,mate, that's fantastic, like
that's awesome, like what'sgoing on there?
Like I ask questions?
Yeah, if I'd ask questions 25years ago, mate, I would be
worth 300 million dollars now.
Like it's, it's, it's thatsimple, yeah true?

Speaker 1 (01:19:09):
well, keep asking questions then.
Yeah, mate, yeah.
Well, I guess we spoke a lot of.
We have spoken a lot about thisas well, but what are three
things you would tell youryounger self, unrelated to
construction, that you know now?

Speaker 2 (01:19:22):
so this can be anything personal, or yeah, um,
I'll try and keep it to three,but, um, definitely, the first
one is invest in myself, yep.
Second one is figure out whoyou are.
So if anyone listens to mypodcast I'll let me talk about
all the time.
Let's just figure out who youare.

(01:19:42):
Don't, don't worry about howyou've been brought up, the
beliefs, religions, family, allthose types of things like,
figure out who you are and whoyou want to be.
And the third one would be stop, like, just change the stories
you're telling yourself.
Yeah, like, just stories arehuge, mate.
Like just there's no, I used tofeel like a dick, like, and I

(01:20:05):
guess it was again.
It's still a lot to do with theway I was brought up, but like,
and I'm not sure what you do,but like I would never tell
myself fuck, you've done a goodjob, geez, you've had a, that's
been a good day today.
Like, um, or something you cando better or yeah like miss that
or should have got this.
Yeah, yeah, like, mate, I'd fuck, I do it all the time now.
Like I'll jump in my truck andlike, fucking shout out, I'll

(01:20:27):
leave a meeting like, yes, I'venailed that.
Fuck, yeah, that went well.
You've got to give yourself apat on the back, believe in
yourself and tell yourself thatyou can achieve.
I'm definitely a firm believerthat any single person on this
planet I don't give a fuck howrich, poor, color, whatever you
are you can be and have whateveryou want.

(01:20:48):
You just need to change thestories you're telling yourself.
Yeah, that's good advice.
So what stories do you?

Speaker 1 (01:20:54):
tell yourself.
Since listening to the podcast,I've definitely tried to start
telling myself some good stories, but I believe I think Conor
McGregor might have said it butif you can think it and you have
the courage to speak it, itwill happen you know, so I do
try and spend a lot of time nota lot of time, but when the

(01:21:16):
opportunity arises, you know,okay, I am good enough to do
this.
I do know this, I can do that.
I am going to become a builder,self-affirmation made, it's
huge, yeah, and like Idefinitely didn't believe in it
growing up or anything like that, you know pretty just straight
edge, all right, if you want togo get it, go work for it.
You know, go try and go figureit out, um, but it has helped, I

(01:21:37):
think, in a lot of ways, justboosting your self-confidence a
bit and working on thingsoutside of the actual skill set
you're doing.
You know.
So, like I said, tellingyourself that you're good enough
to do it, um, and just findinga way to do that, yeah.
So those stories, and then Itry and try and plan my

(01:21:57):
narrative out a bit.
You know like I'm gonna, andnot you can't hold yourself too
firm to it because life happensand things get in the way.
But you know I want to do thisby such time and just working
through that, writing out a plan.

Speaker 2 (01:22:11):
Mate, I hope every 25-year-old tradie in Australia
is listening to this podcast.
Because I'm serious, mate, Iwant to stay in touch with you.
I want you to give me updateson how you're going because I'm
super keen to see in five yearswhere you're at.
So we'll set a calendarreminder in the calendar and I'm
sure keen to see in five yearswhere you're at.
So we'll set a calendarreminder in the calendar and I'm
sure you'll be interviewing meon your podcast telling me how

(01:22:34):
well your building business isdoing.
Hopefully that's the plan.
No, well, mate, look before wewrap it up.
Have you got any more questionsor is there anything else you
want to know?

Speaker 1 (01:22:43):
I think you've answered everything that I came
here to find out and justappreciate the chat.
Thank you.
I'm going to take and implementit and give my best crack.

Speaker 2 (01:22:51):
No good on you, mate.
You're a good young fella andI'm seriously keen about seeing
how you go.
But look, guys, I hope you'veenjoyed this episode of the
podcast.
I've actually got a lot out ofsitting here talking to Lockie,
so I'm sure you would have.
Make sure you like, subscribe,share with your friends, tell

(01:23:13):
the world about this podcast.
We want to continue to makethis Australia's number one
construction podcast.
Stay tuned, because we havesome very big things coming up
in 2025 and yeah, it's going tobe epic.
We'll see you on the next one.
Are you ready to build smarter,live better and enjoy life?

Speaker 1 (01:23:26):
Then head over to livelikebuildcom.
Forward slash elevate to getstarted.

Speaker 2 (01:23:39):
Everything discussed during the Level Up podcast with
me, Dwayne Pearce, is basedsolely on my own personal
experiences and thoseexperiences of my guests.
The information, opinions andrecommendations presented in
this podcast are for generalinformation only, and any
reliance on the informationprovided in this podcast is done
at your own risk.
We recommend that you obtainyour own professional advice in

(01:24:02):
respect to the topics discussedduring this podcast.

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