This Will Change The Building Industry

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
what you say is you know, I apply in my day, and I
think there's a lot to be saidabout that.
For me it's all about value.
You know, like when you're inthat mindset of on site and
everyone's just cracking away,it's awesome.
It's a good vibe, Like it'ssuch a great vibe.
I'm a fringe of ACT and sheowned a property out there.
She owned a f***ing donkey farm, a miniature donkey farm.
Right, this can go out to thepublic yeah, it's all good.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
It's all good.
We'll leave all this shit in.
This is a real deal here, mate.
G'day guys, welcome back toanother episode of Level Up.
We are back in the shed todayfor another cracking episode.
This one's going to be full oflaughs, I think.
Um, I don't even know where tostart.
Where do we meet, mate?

Speaker 1 (00:45):
well, we actually, you know it's.
It could be whether it's goingto embarrass you or not, but it
was a dating app and and I wasactually quite surprised that
you wanted to reached out to mefrom for all the way from
Brisbane, because you know I'min the in the cold suburb of
Canberra.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
So, yeah, but yeah, look guys, today we got uh sean
um, I get names wrong all thetime is it hard wicks, hardwick
projects, yeah, yeah.
So sean, sean's come up fromcanberra.
As you just heard, we met on adating app.
So, uh sean flew up fromcanberra yesterday afternoon and
, um, I was catching up at thelocal uh with a few of the live

(01:21):
life build members and I invitedSean along.
He walked into a bunch ofbuilders that he's never met
before and one of them's askedhim where did we meet?
And I was already halfway inthe middle of a conversation I
heard behind me, him say that wemet on a dating app.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
You've got to break the ice somehow, dwayne, if I
can make the room comfortable,Every conversation that was
getting had at that tablestopped instantly yeah, they did
.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't knowwho they were more surprised at
me or you.
Mate, thanks for coming up.
Yeah, no, I appreciate it Like.
I'm a big supporter of thiswhole movement, the whole Level
Up movement, and I've beenlistening to your, you know, a

(02:10):
good couple of years, I meansince the first one.
So it's uh, it's an absolute,absolute honor to be, to be here
in the hot seat and um bitsurreal to be here in the shed.
You know it was uh.
When you you gave me the uhreached out um through tinder,
it was.
You know, when you reached outum, it was uh.
Yeah, it was a.
It was an experience I'll neverforget, you know, yeah no man,
I'm super proud of you here.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
Just watch the tapping on the chair, mate,
because it'll be going throughthe microphone.
Oh rightio, just a nervous one.
No need to be nervous, mate.
No need to be nervous.
I'm really excited about this.
So, like, how we actually metwas through Instagram.
Yep, a little bit of messagingbackwards and forwards, yeah,
but it wasn't really so muchabout building.

(02:46):
You were really passionateabout apprentices.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, so I mean, that's the reason I reached out
to you.
It was a simple newspaper sortof campaign that was in touch
with a journalist there inCanberra and yeah, they reached
out to us wanting some insighton the recent decline at the

(03:08):
Apprentice scene in construction, across all forms, really.
But yeah, and then I was justlooking for a basic ambassador,
like someone who I could reachout to, that could spread a
message, and I think that's whatit's all about is reaching out
to the public and to those whoyou know have the same intention

(03:30):
, you know.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
So yeah, Look, mate, our associations and industry
bodies and stuff, they're notfucking helping us.
So we want to change thisindustry.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
We've got to do it ourselves.
Yeah, exactly you know.
So I think that's why thiswhole movement of being able to
publicise this locally is reallyimportant.
I think podcasts are a greatthing for that, and they just
resonate with the general public, with the everyday person.
They really do.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
Well, I can't get it out of my head, mate, because
you were saying last night thatyou and your missus listen to
the podcast while you're havinga session.
Yeah, yeah.
What does that mean?

Speaker 1 (04:05):
yeah, no no, it's just a sunday session, not a
session session, but a sundaysession no, we, we, she in
particular, yeah, she, um, shereally um, enjoys listening to
you as well.
You know, from the firstpodcast, you know she said, wow,
this guy really has goodintentions, you know, and he's
and he's captivating, he's greatto listen to, he's got a lot of

(04:26):
knowledge and and I said, yeah,I know that's.
You know what I've been, whatI've been listening to.
And then, yeah, just a bit of a.
You know it's not a completetradition, but you know, like a
sunday, like we'll like tolisten to a couple of podcasts
and, uh, it's awesome as I'mironing my shirts, you know,
just um, doing the monday andactivities on a sunday afternoon
before you go steer into mondayand, uh, tackle it.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
So it's unreal, mate.
So what?
What is, what is your storylike?
What's your um?
What's the message you want toget out there about apprentices?

Speaker 1 (04:53):
so I mean, I think, just addressing the current um
status of of why, um, there issuch a shortage.
I mean the answer is why, um?
Why do you think there is?
Look, it's a.
You know there's influences nowin the world, a lot of digital

(05:14):
influences that I feel you knoware having some impact.
You know it's a lot easier forpeople and young people to make
money these days, you know,through that digital world and
that digital marketing you knowwhich.
You know it's all about keepingup with the times and keeping
up with the rhythm and flow oflife.
So you know it's a tough one,you know.

(05:37):
And then, whether you know it'sinfluenced from parents.
I mean there's parents, there'sschooling, there's government.
You know industry leaders thatI don't think are supporting,
you know, apprentices as well asthey should.
In this, what I'm going to calla crisis, you know.
I think you're saying it is acrisis.
It is.
I mean the stats show like thenumbers are there, as you're

(05:59):
always saying, as we're alwayssaying, the numbers just don't
lie.
And you know, from 2021, whenwe had 400, you know there was
almost 400 applicants orcommencements, you know we'll
call it.
And there was 100, I think, inthat year, 21,.
There was 190 completions, andthis is in Canberra, is it?
This is ACT Carpenters?
Yeah, yeah, so I should pointthat out.
Yeah, act Carpenters.

(06:20):
Yeah, 2021, 22,.
There was 400 as well, with asimilar number.
So over 400 signing up 400signing up, but less than 50%
yeah, 190-odd completions.
Now this year there's 100.
Now we're yet to close the yearout, of course, so the numbers
aren't as accurate as what theyhave been.

(06:40):
Like the stats, the data's notquite there yet, but this year
we've got 100 apprentices in thecity yep, just a hundred,
that's it.
You know, um, and at this stagethere's 20 completions, so I've
got two, so you take them out,there's 18.
You know those, those numbersare just staggering, you know it

(07:00):
is staggering and there needsto be something done before.
Uh, you know, there's a, there'sa um, there's big, there's high
demand on movement in theconstruction industry, there's,
you know, budgets in place,there's expectations to be set
for new dwellings and it's justnot going to be met.
You know, if we just being ableto pull labor and um, and and

(07:25):
and other people in that have a,you know, have an idea, I think
it's having educated people, um, like a an organization a
training institute is veryimportant.
Those three, four years of a ofan apprenticeship is very
important.
It's it's a really hard.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
one mate like I, I've done a couple of um speaking
gigs now.
Like up here in Brisbane, thetrade like we've got a few
private trade colleges Yep,they've got me in to talk to the
kids.
Tell them my story, yep, andjust be very blunt with them,
yeah, and tell them how it is.
Yep, I actually did one I don'tknow what was it, shay four or
six weeks ago.
Yep, weeks ago, yep, um, andthere was we're going back to do

(08:08):
another one, but there was, Ithink, in that room.
Uh, there was a bit over 100,um, it was across the board.
So at this trade school, yep,they do everything from
hairdressing to building toeverything yep, um, there was
over 100 in the room.
And, mate, the teachers couldnot believe, like they obviously
a lot of people that want toget into a trade are.
I don't know.
We don't like sitting inclassrooms and being told what

(08:31):
to do and stuff, so we'regenerally sort of having a bit
of a muck around and chattingand all that sort of shit.
The teachers all come up to meafterwards and they said we've
never seen a room so quiet andeveryone was so engaged and
listening, and for half an hourafter it kids were coming up
shaking my hand thanking me.
So I feel there needs to bemore real life experience put in

(08:53):
front of these kids.
But I've got a few very strongopinions on this and I know it's
probably going to piss a fewpeople off.
But I don't believe kids arehardworking anymore, or very few
of them.
I feel it goes all the way backto school.
There's not a lot of disciplineand you see it just with the

(09:14):
crime rates now.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
People don't respect any services ambulance, police,
fire brigades, all that I thinkyou could look back at it and
just say punishment now isalmost a crime.
But there's so many differentforms of punishment which are
valuable, you know, like they'revery but there has to be.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
For me there has to be.
Like I look, I the I don'tthink the cane hurt anyone.
Like you, it taught you.
Like I got it a couple of times, but you, you knew there was
boundaries, yep, and if youbreak those boundaries there was
a consequence.
Yeah, yeah, and what I see nowfrom like I couldn't even tell
you the numbers of apprenticeswe've tried in the last six

(09:50):
years.
Like it'd be, it'd have to be30, 40 plus.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, like we'vecurrently got three Yep, but I
see so many of them that come tous, they want to get in the
trade.
Yep, come to us, they want toget in the trade.
Yep, I couldn't even tell youagain the ones that have turned
up and they've lasted one dayand haven't come back, yeah,
okay, they just they don't likebeing told what to do yep, they

(10:11):
don't like showing, like tryingto get them to show up
continually on time.
Like I don't know what you'relike, but our rules are everyone
must be on site yep, 15 to 20minutes prior to start time.
Gear out on on site, ready tostart work.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
That's right.
Yeah, that level of expectation.
At 7 o'clock, 5 past 7, gunsshould be smoking and you have
that time.
That time's valuable too,because your staff can rock up
to site.
There's something to be saidabout having a conversation on
the road.
That's just what we do, and youhave that little bit of time to
have your coffee, get yourtools out, get them on site and

(10:46):
then by that time you knowyou're ready to go.
At 7 o'clock.
Yeah, the first two-hour periodof the day is the most valuable
period of the day.
That's 7 till 9.
Yeah, I always find that thatsets you up for the day.
So to put you in good steed,rocking up at a quarter pass, 20

(11:07):
past seven even five pass andthen you're rushing to get your
gear in.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
You know like it just , it's just no good.
It doesn't build culture, itdoesn't build good teamwork but
the other I feel like the otherreally big problem is social
media.
Yeah, like, oh and anddistraction.
Well, you've got that youmentioned about the influencing
and stuff, but just thedistraction and staying up late
at night and not getting a goodsleep.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Look, there's a lot to be saidabout it.
And you know, like even fromyou know, from each generation.
You know like I've found myselfgetting caught up in the
marketing side of the business.
You know, and you know you'vegot to apply a fair bit of

(11:48):
attention to it and you getcaptured by the audience.
You know like it's very in yourface, you know, so you can't
avoid it.
Sometimes you just can't avoidyou know being distracted by
that.
I'm doing it for a purpose?
Yeah, of course.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
And look, I'm the first to put my hand up.
I get sucked into it more oftenthan I'd like to.
But, I've got this rule thatI'm continually trying to repeat
to myself that I stick to.
Like I get on, I do my postingand get off.
If there's comments and thingsthere, I'll try and reply on
that.
But I try my hardest to avoid,but it is so powerful.
It is very powerful, yeah, andthe reason it's so powerful is

(12:22):
because got all the shit thatwe're fed everything we like.
That's right.
Yeah, if you start, yeah,commenting or liking or looking
at fall, driving or camping, or,yeah, fitness, yep it just
keeps feeding it to you.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I mean, how, how do youcontrol that beast?
It ain't going nowhere, youknow.
So how you know, how do youcontrol that?

Speaker 2 (12:42):
uh, yeah, I'm not sure, but I I think it's a hard
question I mean it's, it's.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
It's almost an unanswerable question.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah, but I think it's just making people aware of
it.
Like yeah, that's true, Ipulled one of my young guys up
yesterday morning.
I just said like I was on siteearly, same time as them, and
yeah, send him.
What's wrong?
Man, you look, you're reallytired.
Yeah, yeah.
He's like oh yeah, I'm notsleeping.
I'm not.
Yeah, yeah, you're not sleeping.
I'm like, yeah, you're notsleeping because you're on your
fucking phone.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
He's on the phone.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm a bigbeliever in that.
You know rest time, you knowtrying to stay off the phone.
You know trying to have awindow of five minutes.
You know of that screen timethis is for myself and having,
you know, lamps on in thebedroom having those lights, you

(13:29):
know it stimulates your brainlike it shouldn't happen, you
know.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
So how do we like?
What do we do?
What, what?
What's the messaging we need toget out to young people?
Because I, I see a lot ofthings that are going to happen
through what's going on now andI've been saying this for years
like, yep, the worst one.
I believe that, like, peopleare complaining about the cost
of housing now, yep, I seepersonally in my own business,

(13:51):
um, our team's getting slowerand slower because there's a
there's far more on time needingto be spent with new, new staff
.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yep, yep, um, you're talking, you know, just in the
management of, of staffmanagement, in the, in the way
of um, of making you know,making sure that they're
comfortable, and things likethat.
Is that what you mean, like?
No, I'm just talking about theamount of work that gets done.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah right, just the volume of work.
Like I think back to when I wasan apprentice and even when I
started contracting like you'retalking about.
Sorry, the volume of work.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, you just I mean how much you've got on the
books.
Yeah, yeah, yeah so.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
I see our jobs getting slower and slower and
look, that's a two-edged sword,like it's not just because of
the younger people comingthrough and the more time being
spent with them.
It's the way we're building hasimproved and there's a lot more
time now spent building.
You're not just throwing up aframe now and putting foil on it
.
You're building a healthierhome.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
It's involved, you know, and that takes time.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yeah, I get that, but I see that adding to the cost
of housing Like what a carpenteror what a carpentry company or
what any contractor used tocharge even four years ago
compared to now, is quite likeyou're talking 20 or 30% more.
Yeah, 100% Like where are wegoing to be in 10 years, 20

(15:13):
years, 30 years?
Like it's just going tocontinue to increase?
Yeah, well, and then, just so,the work ethic.
I think that probably ties itup in a couple of words Like
work ethic, I think needs toimprove.
Work ethic, I think needs toimprove, attitude needs to
improve.
But I feel the biggest problemwe have and I think it actually

(15:35):
ties in with what you spokeabout first, people expect to
come into their apprenticeship,get paid really, really well,
get their papers signed off andgo straight on to $60 or $70 an
hour.
Yeah, of course no one valuesthat time anymore, or everyone

(15:57):
wants everything right now,instantly and going back to the
demand of the.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
You know like it's in your face, you know like that's
the whole.
People are just, you know,brainwashed by all of that.
So that's the expectation inlife now.
You want things straight away,you want it clean, you want it
tidy, you want it now.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
You know, yeah, so they finish their time and they
think that they're worth 60 or70 bucks an hour and they're not
working up the levels.
Yeah, for me it's all aboutvalue.
You get paid, depending on thevalue you add to a business.
Yep, exactly.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
I don't know if that's something that needs to
be taught more in schools or byemployers bodies.
And then coming down from thereand and you know, having the um
I'm lost for words here um, theum, the, the um, training
organizations, um, you know liketheir influence.
You know like I was onlytalking.
You know I'm staying here inbrisbane with a good friend, and
and and his partner, um.
You know she's got arecruitment agency, um ad staff
and it's a really, really greatum recruitment and she's yet
she's had it for a long time.
She's very invested in herapprentices and you know we were

(17:09):
only just talking on the topicthis morning of she wants to put
together, you know, like, abunch of sponsors to be able to
put on a, like an event thatrecognises the apprentices at
the end of their apprenticeship.
I mean, we don't, unless you dosomething yourself within the
company you know um to to givethem that recognition I think

(17:31):
you know that's important.
You know the incentives for theimp, for the, for the
apprentices, um, you know, likethat's, they're all the things
that are going to sort of makeup that um, that that level of
patience in a way, you know, ifthey have those little
incentives, those goals you knowto reach, that's not a big pay
packet, you know, um, that's nota a line of credit that's over

(17:56):
50, 60 fucking thousand dollarsor whatever it is.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
You know, yeah they need to, like I don't think that
that sort of helps.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
I think that worsens the situation.
When I was an apprentice I hadan $800 tool bonus and that I
will never forget it.
I remember going to SydneyTools there in Tarrant Point and
I remember going in there,spending the $800 on the tools
and just having that Makita bag,as you do when you're a young

(18:23):
fella, and that was valuable,you know, because you had that
incentive there.
So going back to you know umthe, the, the, the incentives
today, I think it's a little bit.
I think it's a little bit umyou know um you know, it's just
not put, put in place.
Very well, you know, Um yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
It's and again, you know it's just not put in place
very well.
You know, yeah, yeah, and again, I guess there's lots of
reasons we can talk about, butmore and more, I think it's just
becoming more obvious that it'sthe social media that's
probably the biggest problem.
Like that instant gratification, like that's just gone across
everything.
Yeah, like what people get paid, how quickly they become
qualified, like everyone, likewe've just said, everyone wants

(19:06):
it straight away, yeah, yeah,yeah.
Quality of work yeah, um, likeI, we actually had to give one
of our apprentices a writtenwarning last week, um, because I
rocked up to site and was onthe phone and was standing up on
the um front of the house andwas looking down to the backyard
where they were working and,yep, he didn't realize I was

(19:27):
there and for a good 10 minutes,15 minutes, he was just
standing there flicking on hisphone.
He's fucking around, yeah, andyeah, like to me that's
disgusting.
Yeah, of course, and in my day,yep, I would never, ever have
even thought about getting myphone out of my lunchbox.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
yep and if I, if I did, I mean in your day you
didn't have that distraction.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
Well mate, I had a Nokia 3210.
What was it?
100 digits or something?
Play Snake.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
However, that was quite distracting, but you know
you didn't have that incident.
I think it's the networkingthat goes on in there and if you
make a comment on something andsomeone else comment, you want
to know what that response is.
It's all that rapid responsewhich is at the end of the day.
It's a distraction from whatyou're doing, your daily job,
which requires a lot ofattention during the day.

(20:17):
You're working with tools.
It can be a dangerousenvironment.
You're working with a team.
It's all got to flow Like Itell all my young guys it's
definitely, you know.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
It's a contributor, you know the social media
definitely, and then everyone'sin each other's ears.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
You know more of a distraction than what we think
you know when you dive in.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
And it's costing.
That's what I was getting tobefore Like all that wasted time
, like that's costing all of usbecause the cost of everything
just continues to go up becauseworth ethics dropping, speed and
just the ability to do a taskin an efficient manner is
dropping.
But I tell my guys I don't know.
We've had a couple of really,really good apprentices over the

(21:02):
last few years.
One of them actually wonApprentice of the Year, young
Alex.
He's gone on to do over thelast two or three years he's out
on his own.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
When did he leave?
At what period?
Once he finished hisapprenticeship, did he stay on
with you for a while?

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Well, no, and that's something that took me a while
to get over, of course yeah.
Because he was no different mate, like he finished his time.
And so I have the conversationwith all my team like, yep, I
will pay you whatever you wantif you're adding that value to
my business.
Yeah, so, yep, and value to meis no complaints by the other
guys on site.

(21:38):
Yep, me turning up and whatI've asked to be done getting
done.
Yep, um, solutions being foundinstead of just like making
everything a problem.
Yeah, feedback from supervisorclients.
And so I still remember it, likeI remember him leaving, like he
finished his time.
And then, about four weekslater, we were at the back of

(21:59):
the ute having a conversationand he was sort of telling me oh
, it's not all about the money.
I know I need to learn a lotmore.
And what do you know?
Four weeks later, if someone'sanother builder that is chasing
employees and look, I get it.
I don't wanna hold anyone backfrom earning money, but you get

(22:20):
a builder call like you get abill.
They see an ad from anotherbuilder paying 50, 60 bucks an
hour for carpentry.
They're a month out of theirtime.
They're qualified Like, yeah,mate, I'm a chippy.
No worries at all.
That builder doesn't know, allthe shit they don't know puts
them on.
And then all of a sudden we'vegot renovations and new homes
full of shit that is built wrongbecause they don't have the

(22:41):
runs on the board.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yeah.
So I mean you know this is along shot, but where they have
something in place, you know inin an employment agreement or or
you know the the, theemployment contract you know
that says you know for you toremain on for 12 months post
your apprenticeship, you knowwhether I, I definitely believe
that.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
they're like same as when you get your builders, like
when you get your builder'slicense.
When you get your builder'slicense, you have to have a
minimum amount of experience.
Exactly, you do, yeah, andobviously they do prior
recognition and all that sort of.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
Thing.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yeah, the RPLs, yeah, but I believe that any
apprentice across the boardplumbers, sparkies, plasterers,
like everybody should not beallowed to contract and work for
themselves for a minimum of twoyears.
Yeah, okay, yep, yep, I agree,I completely agree.
You just do not have theexperience.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
And that's honoring the employer as well for your
time to be, you know, valued forgoing through that process of
the apprenticeship.
And then you know, so you're asthe employer, you know you're
getting a return in.
You know if we're talking in abusiness, you know perspective,
you know you're getting a returnin.
You know if we're talking in abusiness, you know perspective,
you know it's, you're gettingthat return.
And then also, you know it'seducation for, for the, for the

(23:53):
employee.
You know, like this is now thereal world, I'm going to throw
you into this, into thiscategory, into this hierarchy,
and you're going to fulfillthese tasks and you know that
will set you up for if you wantto, if you want to head on.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
You know, after that, 24 months after that, yeah, and
it's not about um, holding themback, it's about, for me, it's
about them learning what theyneed to know, because you can't.
Yeah, yep, there's a few tradesthat in four years, you might
pick up everything.
But, yeah, yeah, well, actuallythere's a few trades that in
four years, you might pick upeverything.
But, yeah, yeah, well, actuallythere's even carbon most trades

(24:27):
.
You, you should know what youneed to know, how to do your job
in four years I think youshould know what your job is.
You know halfway through yourthird year, but what you don't
get to know is the experience ofdifferent situations that come
up, of course, through doingwhat you do, and that comes with
the independence you know sothat comes with the supervising

(24:48):
and having that weight on theshoulders on the building site.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
Calling shots, making the phone calls, looking at the
numbers, going fuck where.
So not not?

Speaker 2 (24:56):
only will we end up with a country full of better
and more experienced tradespeople.
There'll be a shitload lessdefects, yeah, of course.
Yeah, it'll help the industry.
Yeah, but the entire industry.
So with that.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
So were you saying now that the apprenticeship, you
know, would be a six-year term,in you know, because there's
got to be some form of locked inagreement, in place, some
legislation?

Speaker 2 (25:21):
you could almost say that that is what the it
probably makes it a bit harderbecause, like, they have all
these training organisations now, so a lot of apprentices aren't
actually signed to an employee.
They're signed to a companythat farms them out to different
employees.
Yeah, so, whereas I'm oldschool, like I believe that an

(25:42):
apprentice should be workingwith a company for their entire
period, if you're gettingshopped around and there's
companies out there that areshopping apprentices around,
like labour for hire, the HIAs,the MBAs, those organisations as
well, and also yourrecruitments.
And what young person or matureage apprentice is going to learn
their trade correctly?

(26:02):
If someone's bringing up, hey,I need some labor for a week,
they go and do a little bit overhere and then, oh no, I'm
finished with this, and then yougo over there.
It's disjointed.
It's, it's, it's yeah for their,for their own wellbeing, and
and and I personally, believethat comes back from the people

(26:23):
that are making the rules,haven't worked in our industry
and don't understand it.
You're talking the bureaucraticworld, yeah, especially in the
States.
I'm seeing it a lot at themoment.
You've got a lot of thesewealthy people that are seeing
that the construction industryis a place to make a lot of
money and so they're coming upwith all these schemes to fast

(26:45):
track apprentices, right, yeah,and so there's one in the States
at the moment.
I'm not going to name any names, but, like this guy thinks,
because he's got a heap of money, he's going to employ some
teachers and he's going to fasttrack immigrants to get their
trade, their contracting license.
Yeah, you can't fast track atrade?

Speaker 3 (27:01):
Not at all.
Yeah, but you can't fast-tracka trade you can't fast-track it?

Speaker 1 (27:03):
Not at all, not at all.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
The only way to learn is to physically be on site
doing the work.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
The curriculum is tight as it is.
You know, like I really think,like I'm just looking at the
curriculum at the traininginstitute.
So, whether it be TAFE or CIT,whatever it be, you know, like I
think that is still quitecompressed.
You know it could go out for alot longer, but just the on-site

(27:31):
experience.
Yeah, you can't fast track that.
You know like, like I saidbefore, I have a level of
expectation that you know,during the third year, you know
that's when you're developingyour wings and you're pretty
much almost ready to fly out ofthe next you know, so to say,
but you can't um.
And then that next year and ahalf you know until you end your
fourth year, that's, that'sstill.
You can't um.
And then that next year and ahalf you know until you end your
fourth year, that's, that'sstill.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
You can't fast track it yeah, it's a story, I don't
know.
Like I think I'm definitely oldschool, like I think I think
all apprentices need to besigned to the same employee, or
or maybe cap it at two or threefor their, like I, I did two and
, yep, I'm really grateful.
Like I got basically two yearsexperience with a custom home
builder.
That was just yep, superbcraftsman, yeah.

(28:08):
And then I got two yearsexperience doing volume building
, yeah, okay, so I learned thequality, but then I also learned
the speed yeah, yeah, um yeah,so I think it's, and again it's.
we're talking about experience,but I was taught I was brought
up old school so, like, evenonce I got signed off, I knew
that I wasn't worth what thetradies were worth, like.
I knew that I had to work myway up and the only way for me

(28:30):
to work my way up was to get onthe ground and physically do the
work and show people what Icould deliver.
Yeah, and as I delivered more,the people I was working for
kept rewarding me for keptrewarding me.
Yeah, yeah.
So, yeah, my, I'm not sure howit would work, but I feel like
after the apprenticeship period,there needs to be a two-year
period where you're allowed togo and work for other employees

(28:55):
but you're not allowed to startyour own business okay, yeah,
yeah, yep.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
I mean, I can't see how that wouldn't work.
You know, and and I think it'scertainly something that you
know I'm losing my words here,so we're going to have to cut
this part out.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
It's all right, mate.
It's all right.
Shay's a good editor.
This is where the real had thetrain of thought, Mate we'll
leave all this shit in.
This is a real deal here, mateyeah right, you know what I
actually did.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
start focusing, focusing on the sweat dripping
down your bloody chest.
It is hot in the shed today.
I started focusing on the sweatyou know, the old shed you can
tell it's ramping up.
We're probably about 32 outsidenow.
I reckon, mate, I'm sittinghere thinking it's a lovely day,
you're from Canberra and youused to Well, look, if I knew

(29:39):
that the shed wasn't lined, Iprobably would have drove up,
brought me trailer and we couldhave tinkered away yesterday
instead of going to dinner.
You know and just line the shed.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
So it made today a bit easier um the um that's all
staying in, by the way, yeah,that's all that's all staying in
there, mate that's the sort ofstuff that you and your missus
listen to on your sunday sessionthat's exactly right you know,
I'm probably gonna laugh at myown podcast.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
I'm that guy, you know.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
Yeah, I'm that fuck weird.
What else like in in the workthat you're doing?
Because you've um, you gotinvolved in some articles in the
local papers down there.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yeah, yeah, yep, so that's a yeah, a local
journalist journalist, um, hewas actually um, the father of
um, an apprentice that I had umfor a long time.
He was um.
He's still, to this day,Hardwick's longest standing
member.
He did move on.
He got poached from from CITand CIT is Capital Institute of

(30:34):
Technology in Canberra, so thatis, you know, equivalent of TAFE
.
And, yeah, they got, they got ahold of him and that was a
second apprentice actually thatthat CIT got a hold of him and
that was a second apprenticeactually that CIT got a hold of.
We had another apprentice, hewas in his fourth year and then
he got an offer a greatapprentice too.

(30:55):
We're still very good friendsand, yeah, I think he was in his
fourth year and I ended upsigning him off.
He ended up moving down toMelbourne, but the SCIT
approached him and offered himit was somewhere around the 90
grand.

Speaker 2 (31:11):
To go and be a trainer.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
To go and be a trainer.
So he's now teaching and he hadto get signed off, so I ended
up signing him off.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
Do you think he was ready to teach people?

Speaker 1 (31:22):
It's debatable.
He's going to watch thispodcast.
It's debatable.
He's going to watch thispodcast?
Um, it's debatable.
He, I don't think he had he hadthe, the craft, he had the
passion, he had the craft and hewas a very intelligent man.
You know, he is a veryintelligent man.
He's very academic as well.
You know, like he, uh, he camefrom environmental science.
You know, when he, when Iinterviewed him, I just went
fuck, you know, yeah, I'msitting in front of an academic

(31:46):
here, you know.
So he could apply thatknowledge, you know, to students
, which I found, you know,valuable.
You know.
So, as far as the experience onsite, no, I don't believe that
he did have that, you know, andhe knew it himself.
You know, a couple of times hesaid I'm walking into a storm

(32:09):
here.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
I do feel that that is another big part of the
problem is that a lot of thesepeople and the train just going
back.

Speaker 1 (32:15):
Sorry to James as well.
You know whether I can namenames on here.
Oh, you've dropped his name now,yeah or Pup, we call him, you
know, because he was the pupwhen he started.
He's still the pup now, but he,you know, he went into.
He had a lot of knowledge.
You know, like, he did, comeinto the trade, into the
industry, with zero knowledge.
You know he was a telemarketerfrom memory when he came to me.

(32:37):
But he, you know, he developeda lot of knowledge, a lot of
skill over the year and you knowhe, you know, I know I feel
that he was.
You know, the only thing hedidn't have on his side was was
the um assertiveness.
You know he wasn't veryassertive, so you know there was
.
I mean, whether you can findthe perfect um teacher, you know
or not, but well, we'll get.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
I want to jump into that.
So, yeah, I do think that is athat's definitely.
Another huge problem is thepeople that are teaching.
There's probably a few of themthat shouldn't be teaching, yep,
but I think we all need to betaught how to teach.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
Yeah, of course.

Speaker 3 (33:14):
Of course I know that they did have to go through
some training you know there wassome accredited oh us Right,
something that I've been reallybecoming aware of.
Yeah, look, that's a good topicto discuss.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
That's a great topic, you know for us to do some sort
of training, like it doesn'thave to be, you know, like a too
lengthy course, but just to getthe basics down, pat.
Yeah, to be able to hostapprentices and things like that
for sure.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
A few things that have come up in my building
business over the last sort of18 months, two years um and it's
something that's really on myradar now.
Like I'm really trying to workwith my team, um, about
communication and like so I putmy hand up constantly to take
ownership for things and to showthem that it's okay to make a

(34:01):
mistake.
Yeah, but it's how we deal withit.
Very important, but I see moreand more like now that I'm
becoming more and more aware ofit like I see, we've got some
incredible trade I call themcraftsmen that work for us.
That's what we are, yeah and butI see their fresh, their
constant frustration because ayounger person or even other

(34:23):
tradie that's working with themisn't doing it how they've asked
it to be done, or they're notunderstanding it, or they're
making more mistakes.
And the more that I watch thishappen, it's all their fault.
Yeah, like they're notcommunicating it properly and
like I had this wall, thisbeautiful wall that's behind us

(34:44):
here.
Yeah, We've heard about the wall, dwight, but I'm going to give
this as a real life example,because this is this is exactly
what I'm talking about.
So, um, I'll keep it short, but, like two, two, three days ago,
uh, we had a new project thatwe're doing the cut and fill on,
starting to do some retainingwall works and once we've cut
the site, the neighboringproperty, uh, when they've done

(35:07):
their retaining wall, theirfoundations are 600 mil into our
property and now it's, it'sstuffed up.
Actually, it's actually stuffedup.
The house is on, we've.
So.
Is the boundary out?
no, the boundary's fine, butthey've just over poured all
their concrete into our property, but because it's a meter and a
half under the ground.
Until we did did our site cut.
We weren't aware of it, wow,okay, anyway, long story short,

(35:28):
that house.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
That's a Queensland thing for sure.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
That's basically been put on hold.
Yeah, and we've had toreschedule some things, yep.
And so, because of that,yesterday one of my leading
carpenters and the apprenticethat is working with him I just
gave him some random tasks to do, which are just little shitty
jobs.
I've been sitting around andwe've had so much fucking shit
going on Like I haven't beenable to line this shed, like I

(35:54):
want to line the whole shed.
I said I'd come up early.
Yeah, You're hanging around,mate.
That's what we're doing thisafternoon.
Okay, I'll delay the flight.
Long story short.
I got him in here yesterday.
I was like mate, I want to linethe shed, I want a new backdrop
for the podcast.
This is a perfect opportunity.
He's only been with us aboutsix, seven months.
First year yeah, first yearHardly done any framing.

(36:15):
So, mate, this is a perfectopportunity.
I said I don't care if you fuckit up.
I drew him a drawing of au-shape yep, um, because I
wanted this backdrop.
And then I wanted two wingscoming outside.
And then we sit in here and itlooks like we're in this studio
yeah, yeah, anyway.
Shay comes up to me when I getback to the office yesterday and
says oh, I don't know whatthey've done down there, it

(36:36):
doesn't really work.
And I, he said, I can still seeshit in the shed.
Yeah, yeah.
So what are you talking about?

Speaker 1 (36:40):
bring your cameras in closer shay's got the media
brain on too, not the carpentrybrain, but he knew something was
going on.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
And I just could not think what was.
Why would it not work?
Anyway, then he set upyesterday afternoon's podcast.
I've walked in the door.
I'm like what the hell is that?
And so they've done exactlywhat I've asked.
They've done a U-shape.
Yeah, yeah, shaped.
Yeah, yeah, the walls are goingback the wrong way, yeah, yeah.
And so I'm sitting hereyesterday afternoon thinking

(37:06):
about this, yeah, and I'm likewell, they've done it that way.
Number one I drew a u-shape,that's all I drew.
Yep, you didn't giveorientation, I didn't give
orientation.
No, and in the conversation wehad, behind this wall is a heap
of old, like windows and doorsand shit from jobs, yep, and I
talked to them about the reasonI wanted to put the wall.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
Here was to hide the mess.
Yeah, right, okay.
So it makes sense with theu-shape to hide the mess and
have the fins.
But so what I'm?

Speaker 2 (37:30):
getting at is.
That is completely on me 100yeah I can't get frustrated that
they haven't, and in the olddays I would have yep, I would
have been ringing him upyesterday afternoon going what
the fuck are you doing, mate?
Like it's for the podcast, it'smeant to be like a u-shape, so
we sit in it.
Yep, and I know there's a lotof guys out there that would do
that, but I can't get mad atthem for doing this.

(37:51):
No, it's ownership you know youtake on I should have put more
detail into the explanation andon the drawing that u-shaped
drawing I did I could have quiteeasily put one more line yep,
and put outside of shed ofcourse.
Yeah, and they would have knownthat it went that way simple
detail.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
Yeah, yeah, so this, but you took ownership of it.
That's, that's.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
But to my point, it's , it's we're not taught how to
teach, like.
So in my head I've got this,I've got this in my head, like
sitting that way, like to me,I've drawn a u-shape.
That's what I want, yeah, yeah.
And so I see it more, more withall the and it's not just my
own carpentry team, like I seeit happening constantly with all
of our trades.
Yeah, when they're explainingsomething to their employee or

(38:31):
their apprentice or theircontract or whatever it is, yeah
, and I don't know if it's justbecause I'm more aware of it now
, but I hear them saying things.
I'm like can you're saying so?
How is?
he supposed to understand whatyou're?
Saying Of course yeah.
And so I honestly feel a bigimprovement to our industry
would be, and every like we needto be taught how to teach.

(38:56):
Yeah, of course.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
And who are you?
What's you know?
Who are you targeting that to?
You're targeting that to justemployers.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
Everybody, or are you ?

Speaker 1 (39:02):
talking that to supervisors.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
Are you talking to project managers?

Speaker 1 (39:05):
Across the board, you know so how I mean.
Like you know, let's start amovement.
How do you do it, wayne?

Speaker 2 (39:11):
Well, I'm going to do a shout out.
Rick Rushton, if you'relistening, mate, I've sent you
an email.
I need you to respond.
But there's a Melbourne bloke,rick Rushton.
He's done a bit of mentoring.
He's done a couple a sessionfor our Live, life, build
community.
Yep, he's got a really bookcalled the Power of Connection.
Okay, and it's simply aboutlistening and communicating.

(39:32):
Yeah, yep, and I just like sofor anyone listening, go and
listen to that book.
Like that book made a hugeimpact on me the Power of
Connection.
Okay, yeah, we'll put a Shaywill put some links and stuff in
here, but I know I'm talkingabout we need to be taught to
teach, but a lot of it is justsimply listening and

(39:54):
communicating.
And he talks a lot in his bookabout and I try and pull myself
up on this all the time sinceI've read it and I'm more aware
of it.
But it's such a busy world anda lot of this again keeps coming
back to the social media.
But when you go home, have athink about this and just be

(40:14):
aware of it.
I'm not going home.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
I'm staying up here for a long time.
We're lining the shed Like.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
have a think about how you communicate to people.
Yeah.
Because I've become very awareof this and I pull myself up all
the time, like in our heads.
We're in such a fast world nowthat we want everything to keep
happening.
So, as someone's speaking to usbefore they've even finished
the sentence or what they aretelling us, we've already come

(40:41):
up with a reaction for it yep,and that reaction, yeah, could
be absolutely nothing to do withwhat they've just asked or told
you.
Yeah, but and so what it comesdown to is you're not focused on
what you're being told.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
So, yeah, you're not, you're not absorbing so I've
been saying to my team nowespecially my apprentices.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
They've all got to have notebooks, yep, and they
have to write shit down.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
Great tool so you know I've got a notebook sitting
there.
It's, it's always with me.
You know the notebook is always.
I think it's an extremely greattool.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
You know several notebooks if you got them, but
you know just to write thingsdown you know and I think
there's whole other parts ofthis, like and I see my team and
I'm I'm constantly trying tomake them aware of it like, yep,
because the other pressure isand again, it's the older guys
that are worse at it, butthey've come from the old school
of hard knocks whereeverything's just head down, ass

(41:31):
up, get into it.
That's the only way to like.
We have to make money.
If we don't, if we don't getthis done, the boss doesn't make
money.
We won't get paid.
Yeah, yeah.
And so I have to constantly bereminding them you need to stop
and take the time to explainexactly what you're doing to
whoever you're working with.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yeah, yeah, if it takes a little bit longer, that
is on me, yep, and I need totrack all my data so that I can
make sure I'm allowing enoughanyway, yeah so yeah, but I
think if you're putting somesort of training in place to
refresh people of that, you knowthat's an important thing, like
you said, because life's busyand you get caught up in the in
the day-to-day in construction.

(42:09):
You know the day-to-day is isvery busy, so having a refresh I
think would be would besomething you know definitely
worth it you know, but just theway we communicate, like we all
communicate, yeah, justeverything's quick.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
Got to happen, got to happen, and I am bad for it.
Like I will.
I have a lot going on.
I'll turn up to site.
I'll be going through things,talking to people.
I'm like right, guys, I'mrunning late.
I've got to get to the nextmeeting.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
Yeah, yeah I know exactly what you're talking
about.
You know those site visits thatgo for five minutes, ten
minutes.
It's a quick visual,everything's okay.
You might need to dropsomething off or just have a
quick communicate something, butyou know it can be rushed.
Don't get me wrong.
I'm sure you do the same.
You drive away from site andyou go.
I didn't apply enough of mytime to them, you know, and to

(42:56):
the project, you know I'm reallybig on like what the hand does
and mine follows Like.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
I'm really big on like now, even if we are quick,
like everything gets like,whether it's on a sheet on the
billboard wall or a sheet ofcladding or a ply brace,
whatever it is, but like, asyou're talking to someone about
something, you're drawing apicture.
Yeah, of course, whether it'sof a detail or a finish you want
to achieve.
Yeah.
Or we're standing beside oursite whiteboard yeah, and we're

(43:24):
together.
Yeah, we're making a listwhat's happening over the next
few days, yeah, and instead ofjust talking about it, yeah, no,
write it down.
Yeah, what's today's put todaythere.
What's happening today,tomorrow's date, what's
happening then?
Yeah, and everyone on site canvisually see it yep and apply.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
And you know that sort of uh, that instruction
portrayed as well.
You know like who, what youraudience is.
Is it a first year apprenticeor is it a supervisor who's been
around for a long time?
So you know, having that time,you know um to for them to
understand it.
You know I think is isimportant.
You know, depending on theirlevel of experience.
I mean, how many times as anapprentice did you receive
depending on their level ofexperience?
I mean, how many times as anapprentice did you receive an

(43:59):
instruction say yep, no worries,I got it.
Your boss walks away and you'relike what the fuck was he
talking about?
you know, it's just it's, it's afact, you know it really is, so
you can educate to, to, um, youknow to, to slow down a little
bit and explain that a lotbetter yeah, we need to slow
down, to go slow down, you know,but you know, but yeah, yeah,
no, I agree.
The communication thing, likeit's massive, like I am huge on

(44:23):
it and I'm big on my team.
You know about communicatingand having.
You know having the processesin place now.
You know like the teams youcan't.
You know you've got no excuse.
You know like the digitalenvironment we live in.
You know like we're currentlygoing through Microsoft Teams
we're only changing.
Only as of last week we usedcommunicated through Slack.
I've heard that you use Slack alittle bit.
That's a great tool, butthrough email calendars, I'm all

(44:48):
about just loading them up withinformation and then verbally
as well, we're always talking,communicating.
I cannot express that enough tothe whole team.
You know, to the whole industry, your clients.
You know like there reallyneeds to be.
You know you've got to betalking all the time.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
There needs to be a team meeting Like on site.
There should be some days wherethere's six team meetings.
You need to be having a meetingevery time you're starting a
new task.
Yeah, Another example in thelast few days.
We're installing a heap ofhecka hoods on one of our jobs
before the scaffold comes down.
Yeah.
We've installed a shitload ofhecka hoods over the last few

(45:29):
years.
Yeah yeah, what's a hecka hood?
You don't know what a heckahood is.
Should I know what a hecka hoodis?
Heka hood Is.
You don't know what a heckahood is.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
Should I know what a hecka hood is Hika hood?
Is it a Queensland?

Speaker 2 (45:38):
term.
It's a Queensland thing, mate.
They're a company that started.
They're pre-folded windowawnings, so I think they're out
of like three mil plate orsomething.
They're powder coated.
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
You give them the window Like a large scale.
Yeah, they're 350, 300, 450,600.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
Never heard of a hacker.
Hood mate.
There you go.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
I've learned something.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
See, I listened and I asked a question.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
But well, this could apply to a window flash or
anything, but even though we'veinstalled a lot of them, I
didn't think about it Like we'vegot a lot of new team members
over the last six months, yep,and like to the and the lead
carpenter on this particular jobis is a new guy or a newer guy,
and we're just talking aboutinstalling the heck of hoods

(46:25):
yeah, okay, yeah, yeah I've donethem, yep, and I turned up to
site after I'd done the firstone and it wasn't what I wanted
right and so again, it'scompletely on me.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
Yeah, like he's installed it correctly, but they
were going in blind, basically.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
But he's never done it with us like I like them to
sit like 10 mil above the windowflashing so that any obviously
any water in the cavity canstill run out underneath them
yeah, makes sense depending onwhere, like this one's on a
weatherboard house, likedepending on how far that is off
the next weatherboard?
Yeah, I'm quite happy to pushthem up a little bit.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
So it's a neat silicon joint to the underside
of the weatherboard, like yeahjust those, those particulars as
the builder that you, you knowthat you want to apply to the
project.
You need to make sure thatthere, if you don't and I am so
guilty of that you know whetherthings can work the same way in,
you know, in design, um, butyour way is a little bit

(47:20):
different and if that's how youwant it done, you've got to make
sure you communicate that.
And there's, you know,countless times, you know that
I've arrived on site and justgone.
That's not how I plan to have itthere, but it works.
And do you bite your tongue?
Do you say, rip it down if youdidn't communicate it?
And you know, and there's a,there's an argument in place but

(47:41):
you've got to have aconversation.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
You've got to have the conversations before, though
, but also and have theconversation at the time.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, hey, boyslike that, yeah, look, that's
great up there.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
That's not what I sort of was thinking, but yeah
yeah, that's on me because Ididn't tell you what to do.
Express that you know.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
like, yeah, definitely express that, that's
the other thing that I've becomemore aware of, like, if you
don't have those conversationsafter something's happened, they
don't like.
How do they know?

Speaker 1 (48:08):
what they're meant to check with you.
If nothing's said, then yeah,nothing learned, right?

Speaker 2 (48:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah so there's like all these
little things, like, ultimately,everything we're talking about
today to help our industry and,more so, help apprentices, like
it's not rocket science.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
No, it's not.
No, it's not.
And you know, like something.
We're at a time now wheresomething really needs to be
done.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
You know, I haven't looked at the numbers here up in
Queensland.
But do you know?
You know, like, what thecompletion rates are?
No, don't know, I'm off the topof my head, but I, yeah, we
only we signed an apprentice uponly.
And why?
Why do you?
Why do you think?

Speaker 1 (48:44):
you know, like, what you know, like, do you think
that they're dropping off?

Speaker 2 (48:49):
yeah, that they're dropping off oh, mate, like I
said before, I'm a bit oldschool.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
I do believe that it's hard work, getting scared
of hard work yeah, yeah, yeah.
But my biggest fear with it alland you look at your wet trades
and you know like brickies arebecoming non-existent.
They're not going to exist in10 years time, they're just not.
And we're introducing thingslike you know.
Some other masonry productsthat are installed by carpenters

(49:13):
, like your Hebel power panelsare replacing brickwork.
You know which is going todominate the market there, in
those rendered finishes.
Anyway, you can't replace abrickie laying a brick though.
No, you can't have a carpenterlaying a brick.
Unfortunately the set-out'sjust too involved.
You know like it really is.
It's just I do and the work youknow like it's hard work, you
know like it really is you knowlike it's a lot harder than it

(49:39):
looks being a brickie mate.
Fuck.
You know brickies, I mean, theyused to be.
We'd call them the backbone ofthe building industry.
And now what?
Now the carpenters are thebackbone of the building
industry, but no, we really did,you know, like brickies the
plumbers that black you back inthe day, mate.
They're not even there um backin the day back in the day they,
you know like it was, it wasthe brickie set out.
You know, like the bricky wasthe the, the foundation of the
project in a way they'd puttheir first courses in and that

(50:01):
was a slab box.
Their profile exactly you knowthat's where your windows went,
your doors, first course was thetemplate of the whole house,
you know, and if that set outwasn't correct, you know you'd
be fighting that all the waythrough.
So they had a big you know,like they had a big um task to
fulfill and um, you know, Ithink yeah, it's, it's sort of
lost.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
You know that like a different subject, I guess, but
that is something that reallyshits me.
What's that like we used to,we're the same and we still do
it now.
So we, uh, like my boys, wecall them story sticks.
Yep, um, story stick.
I love a story stick yeah, Ilove a gauge, what's your what's
your.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
I love it I love a gauge stick.

Speaker 3 (50:37):
I love a story stick you know it, I love a gauge
stick.
What's your version?
I love a gauge stick.
I love a story stick.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
It's a set-out stick basically, you know like you're
setting out your course as abrick.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
We're going to do a.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
And it's like a gauge stick in any regard, across any
building application.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Cladding brickwork windows.
Whatever like for cladding,Joinery gauge sticks you know
there'll be a lot of peoplelistening to this podcast that
have no idea what a gauge.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
I hope so, like I read like they're the sorts of
things that you know make, makethe.
That takes all the guessworkout of it.
You know like you can't fuck upif you have a some form of
gauge stick or a story stick um.
I've always called it a gaystick, but I do like the story
stick.
It sounds a lot better.

Speaker 2 (51:15):
Everything to my boss was stories like we had a story
stick.
Yeah, you had to have off cutsof fibro shit in your nail bag
and that was your story books.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, okay,so we're just doing a job at the
moment where one of ourcraftsman, brad yep, has like
there's a lot of detail andjoinery heights and shit on it
and he's done a story stick forthe whole job and yep, um, we've

(51:35):
only just been talking the lastcouple of weeks.
We're going to have a teamtraining day and we're going to
talk about story sticks greatthe value of them great what I
was getting at like the onething that shits me.
Like we still do that.
Like, if we're doing a jobthat's got brick work yep, um,
depending on the job, yeah, wewill still get the bricky in to
do the brick work and then puthis knockoff course on for the
slab.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
Yep, I know builders that don't even know what a
knockoff course is yeah, yeah,um, I mean, it doesn't happen,
especially in a projectenvironment, project home
environment, like it justdoesn't.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
Well, they just form their slabs out with a rebate
exactly right you know whatshits me is.
I can't stand when you drivepast houses these days, yep, and
there's all cut bricks, yeah,yeah they, yeah, they cut bricks
everywhere.
The only bricks that ever usedto get cut on jobs through my
early days.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
Yeah, but that's the set out that I was talking about
before when I said the brickies, the backbone, like they were
the set out kings, you know,because they'd take that time to
set out.
So it was less cutting.
I mean cutting back then it wasshit.
But cutting back you you know,30 years ago wasn't a fun task
either.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
So to mitigate, all of that labor and and that hard
work, you know you get your setout.
You get your set out right fora long time.
Bricksies, like if they had to.
They got the sore out, likewhereas now you see a brick
brickie, now the fucking sourceof everything comes out off the
back of the back of the you.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
That's right, yeah, yeah and that's just all,
especially in.
You know like, yeah, of course,a face brick.
You know, like you want to makesure that's.
You know the facade of thathome.
You know, um, it's, it's, yeah,it means so much, it has so
much.
You know credibility, yeah, um,you know, when you're seeing,
when you're seeing bricks cut,it draws your eye away from you.

(53:17):
Know, know the beauty of thestructure.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
So you know, yeah, there's a lot to be said about
it.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
There's a lot to be said, yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
But those sorts of little things are just getting
pushed and pushed out.
Yeah, do you think?

Speaker 1 (53:28):
that comes down to this Cost, cost and this sped-up
industry as well, that we'vegot to.
You know, like cost is time,time is money.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
Everyone you know everyone is slowly just cutting
more and more corners yeah, totry and make a dollar, and then
these corner cutting, yeahthings I mean this.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
You know this is a um you know like people are
applying this type of science tolife in general, in every you
know in everything you know,yeah you know, like the, the
cutting the corners.
Not so much cutting the corners, but trying to find a faster
way to get a similar outcome.
You know, like but it's faster.

(54:12):
Well, it's debatable, I guessif you had a brick base or you
look at defects, liabilityperiods, you know, like some of
those, you know some of thosesheets, I mean but look, if you
have a thing about like if youset your bricks out correctly
and there's minimal cuts, yep,that's got to be quicker than a
brick.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
You run them back to the saw or like constantly or
even just the cost and themaintenance of the saw.

Speaker 1 (54:35):
Yeah, like no, that makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Yeah, but it does really annoy me that these
things are sneaking in andbecoming normal.
But the reality is if you get abrickie, that let's give it.
This is a real life example ofeverything we've talked about
today.
Yep, you get a brickie thatcomes through his brick.
Apprenticeship finishes histime, so see a lot of stuff.

(55:01):
You, mate.
I'm off to run my own show andearn the big bucks.
Yep, he hasn't like.
He just thinks he can laybricks.
Yeah, he hasn't picked up onall the time that the boss is
spending at the start of the jobdoing all the set out.
Yeah, doesn't understand thevalue in it.
Yep, he's all of a sudden he'sout on his own yeah, running his
own show.
Yep, he starts turning up tojobs for other builders yep, and

(55:25):
just laying bricks and cuttingbricks yeah, and if that, and if
that that builder doesn'tappreciate the effort of a brick
set out and the and theaesthetics and how much better
it is, yep, and that bricky nowstarts getting away with it.
Yeah, that becomes the normal,it does.
It's setting the trend he juststarts working for all these
other builders, yep.

(55:45):
And he might get the oddbuilder that goes oh mate, we
don't cut bricks, we've set thejob out for bricks, yep.
And then that guy argues well,I've never done that, this is
the way I do it.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is how I was taught.
Yeah, this is how I was taught.
How many times have you heardthis is how I was taught.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
Yeah, Well, my first reaction to that mate, I don't
give a fuck the way you'retaught.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
Yeah but I mean, don't you get this?
If you're doing work on my site, this is how you're going to do
it.
Let's, this podcast is going togo all day.
That set out should be.
You know part of that firstyear.
You know, like you should learnhow to set out a home using.

(56:25):
You know full bricks, wouldn'tyou not?
Well, again.
But then it's the time on siteYou're talking 20%, 80%.
Is that what you're saying?
Like you're learning mostthings on site.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
No, a lot of that again comes, comes back like I
actually had a meeting on thisyesterday for a job we've got
coming up next year.
Yep, that has an enormousamount of detailed brickwork in
it and so yesterday thearchitect and I were talking
through the brick set out yeahright, okay, so those drawings
when we get them, yeah, we'llhave all the starting points.
Yep, um, he it was, and so hewas getting my feedback on board

(57:00):
, like where?
Where do I think it shouldstart from?
That's great how's?
it going to affect like umconcrete and like there's.
There's a lot of conversationyeah, okay yeah, so there's not
too many architects anddesigners out there now that are
thinking about that like Iremember back to when I first
started subbing yeah on the.
I think it was a the pagebefore the floor plan had the

(57:23):
brick set out done like it wasall on there.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
To be quite honest with you, dwayne, I don't think
I've ever seen a set of planswith a brick set out yeah yeah,
I don't like, haven't you know?
Yeah it's always, it's always.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
You know it's, it's our set out, you know yeah it's
always a discussion with thebricklayer you know, bricklayer
and the builder um yeah, butthere's like those little things
that I just I think tyingeverything that we've been
talking about today, like I feelreally sorry for people that

(57:57):
are going to be building homesin the next 10, 20, 30, 40 years
yep, because they're just notgoing to get the quality that
they should be getting.
Like you see, yeah, like peopleI know builders now that think
they're the best builders aroundyeah, and I've been through
their jobs, yeah and like holyshit, like I've got to bite my
tongue.
I'm like fuck me, are youserious that you've that's your

(58:19):
standard.
You're gonna hand that over tothe client.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
And you've got staff and you've got apprentices.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
Yeah, I mean, I've had a very well-known builder I
won't I'm not gonna talk aboutthe exact situation, cause he'll
listen to this and he'll knowwhat I'm talking about but I
pulled and there was somefit-off stuff that had been

(58:44):
installed incorrectly and I said, mate, what's the go with that
gap right down, like all aroundthe bottom?
Yeah?
And he's like oh, thecontractors didn't ask me what
floor finishes they were, sothey've just set it all up for
carpet, right, okay, so it cutsout of the bag.
Now we're talking aboutskirting, I guess.

(59:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so thecarpetets in they haven't set
the heights up correctly andthere's a 10 mil gap between the
carpet and the bottom of theskirting.
What so?
They've just run the skirting Ithink it had some timber
floorings They've run theskirting around the timber
flooring in the hallways andthings and then just continued
that same height in all thebedrooms, but in the bedrooms

(59:29):
there's now this big gap betweenthe carpet and the bottom of
the skirting.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
So we're talking smooth edge plus carpet.
Like how tall are we talking?
We'd be 50, 30 mil above.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
Oh no, it was like a 10 to 20 mil gap.
Yeah, yeah, right yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
But you're including the whole.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
But, mate, the house was done, it was finished, it
was painted and I'm like mate,why didn't you get the?
contractor back to fix that?
Yeah, of course, yeah, painted.
And he's like oh yeah, you knowwe've had conversations about
it.
But, and like to me, like myintegrity, I would have, even if
it cost me, if the contractordidn't want to come back.
Well, number one, I would havewalked the job when the

(01:00:04):
contractor was finished and madesure everything was up to my
standard Yep, and if it wasn't,he wouldn't have got his final
payment until I was happy withit.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
And number two, if he chose not to come back, I would
have done it myself or got amember of my team to come and
pull it off and do it properly.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, is it like a finalinspection, you know, like
surely that sort of stuff getspicked up, you know?

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
But I think that ties in with everything we're
talking about.
Like people just aren't likepeople.
Even people that say they arepeople, that think they're
delivering these incrediblehomes, there's very few people
that are committed 100% and havethe integrity.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
To that level of finish which is almost
perfection.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Because it's going to hurt their back pocket.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Once againslowing down.

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
I think that's you know, that's the slogan of these
podcasts is slow down you know,I will lose money, mate, before
I hand a job over.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
That is not up to my standard, and I don't care if
it's hundreds of dollars,thousands of dollars or tens of
thousands of dollars, hundredsof dollars, thousands of dollars
or tens of thousands of dollars.
If there is something thathappens on my job sites, whether
it's myself, my own team, oneof our contractors, I will not
hand a homeowner to a clientunless it is up to my standard.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I don'tthink there's enough of that

(01:01:20):
integrity in our industry.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
There's not.
I mean it's addressing those.
You know what would be defects.
You know, like it's one ofthose things, it'll go into the
defects liability period.
You know I can't stand that talkyou know you hand that project
over and it's a case of whathave you got?
You know to the client.
You know we'll give you acouple of weeks.
You know, if you come back tous with some defects, you know

(01:01:44):
that's the attitude it should beand you should walk away from
there going.
We're going to have a fewpoints, maybe one to ten.
You know, like if we can get itunder five.
You know, like I've honed, I'llsay you know myself I've really
honed in over the last.
You know, sort of 12, 18 months, couple of years of just, you
know, trying to have a defectsum list.

(01:02:06):
You know of zero mate you know,like that's, that's the target,
you know um, there's alwaysthere's always some minor
emissions, you know, but but Ithink it really like you've got
to walk away from that job andand it's perfect, you know yeah
we're the same, that we aim.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Look every job there's.
There's some little things, butI'm of the opinion, mate, that
we're just completely open withour clients, like we had a job
we handed over recently and Ican't remember what happened.
Something like literally twodays before handover fell on the
glass sliding door and put amassive dent in the mullion.

Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
Yeah right, and rather than Was it aluminium.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
But rather than just like think, oh shit, like we'll,
uh, we'll just see if the ownerpicks that up or not.
Yeah, like at handover meetingI just said, like I pointed out
to the client, that's right,guys.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
Well, if you've got your, I'm sorry to butt in, but
if you've got your list, you'vegot your list of defects and
I'll do a comparison.
You know, and I hope I havesome of our previous clients
listening to this becausethey'll they'll know what I'm
talking about and I'll have mylist of incompletions.
I like to call them yeah andI'll go to that meeting, to that
um, you know, to that defectsmean I like to separate the hand
over from from the defectswalkthrough.

(01:03:17):
You know I don't.
I don't like to to integratethose two together.
I used to do that but it alwaysput a um.
It put a bit of a downer on thewhole experience of handing a
project over because you've gotto walk through and have a look
at things that need to beaddressed.

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
you know we do similar.
We do the defects walkthrough aweek prior to handover.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
Exactly.
Yeah, we do the same thing andthat gives us a chance as well
to quickly, before we hand keysover, to wrap it up and get
things done.
But I lost my train of thought.
But going to heading into thatmeeting and having those things
addressed before your client,you know you compare your two

(01:03:54):
sheets together, you know ifthey correlate, like you know,
you can't get any better thanthat as far as transparency goes
.

Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
Yeah, well, that's what happened on that project,
like we'd done our walkthrough aweek before and it was fine,
yep.
And then, yeah, that accidenthappened and it was quite like
just going to the meeting to say, hey guys, we had an accident a
couple of days ago.
This door is now damaged, butyou've actioned something.
We've already submitted thepaperwork for a service call and
a replacement to our windowcompany, and here's the

(01:04:23):
tentative date that they'reexpecting to get back at you
Like it just gives the clientconfidence, Of course yeah.
You're not trying to hideanything.
Yep, You're onto it Exactly.
Yeah, yeah, but yeah, all thisstuff, like I really do hope
there's a lot of well, no, it'snot just a practice.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
We've really strayed from conversations, haven't we?
I can see how these podcastsyou can really uh get wrapped up
and caught up and stray the uhstraight from the norm I mean
you know yeah it's all valuablemate, but it is.
It is of course, of course.
It's fantastic.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
I'm loving it a lot of the stuff we've talked about
today is definitely appliesacross the board, like it
doesn't matter whether you're abusiness owner, a contractor or
an apprentice, so it's allvaluable information yep, and
not just construction.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
You know it goes out to to all apprentices.
You know whatever field youknow, from hairdressing to
bakery to.
You know it goes out to allapprentices.
You know whatever field youknow, from hairdressing to
bakery to.
You know, whatever it is, youknow like we're all in it
together, so you know.

Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
We'll just change tack for a minute, mate, because
I know you're getting hot inhere.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
We'll start to wrap up soon.
No, that's all right.
No, I'm fine.
Look, we've talked about allthis, don't?
I've come a long way.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
Yeah, but no.
Well, I just want to get ontosome other topics because, like,
can you tell us a little bitabout your journey?

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
Because I know you've Well, how long have we got?
Well, my journey, look, I havethought about this coming onto
the podcast and the journey isquite long and whether it's
long-winded or not, but it's anexciting, it's been a very
exciting journey.
You know, sitting here today,you know I would never have
thought in a million years thatI would be, you know at, you

(01:05:54):
know what I'd say, this level,you know.

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
On Australia's number one construction.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
podcast On Australia's number one
construction podcast, you know,level up, yeah, yeah, yeah,
hashtag, but it's, you know,like I said, I didn't, um, I
didn't come in.
I, you know I wasn't forcedinto construction, but I needed
to be guided.
You know, like I didn't do wellat school, didn't want to
listen, um, I, you know,genuinely didn't.

(01:06:19):
You know, like I, in one earand out the other and I was
focused on other things, youknow, and, and that wasn't
education, you know, and youknow.
So you know, the story startedearly.
I actually did want to tell astory today.
This is your time, mate.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
This is your time.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
And it goes back.
So this could have been.
You know whether it was, youknow the catalyst or whatever
you're going to call it.
You know, but there wassomething ingrained in my brain
early on.
You know it was in construction.
But there was somethingingrained in my brain early on.
You know it was in constructionand so I would have been six to
eight years old, I reckon, andmy grandparents, my
great-grandmother, lived nextdoor.
So I grew up in Oyster Bay,which is in the Sunlight Shire

(01:06:58):
in Sydney, and, yeah, mygreat-grandmother lived next
door and she was getting onto anage where she needed to be
looked after.
So my grandparents, they builton top of her place.
They moved from another suburbin the Southern Shire and they
built on top and I found itfascinating.
I was just absolutely fascinatedby the build and the

(01:07:21):
construction and like I canremember you know a couple of
things I can remember quite wellwere one was the ramp.
You know they had this ramp andI can remember you know a
couple of things I can rememberquite well.
One was the ramp.
You know they had this ramp andI'm talking it was.
There was no safety rails, itwas a couple of stick timbers.
The ramp would have been maybe40, 50 metres long.
That shot from the front yard upto the subfloor of the new

(01:07:43):
addition.
You know, and you know at thatage it was 100 metres long.
You know what I mean.
It was long and I used to climbup there after school and just
you know, piss about up there.
You know, like I just rummagedthrough all the construction I
can remember holding silicontubes, you know, and pushing
rods in the silicon tubes andpushing the.

(01:08:04):
It was an old silicon, you know, like a used one, you know,
just stuff like that.
I can remember doing that.
So I found, you know, I foundit interesting.
It's bullshit, just aninquisitive child.
And even more, like it getsbetter.
There was two the twocarpenters there, and they're
you know these fellas calledDanny and Stuart, and I've told
this story so many times.

(01:08:24):
My and I've told this story somany times.
My sisters are going to bewatching this.
He's brought up the Danny andStuart story, but anyway, so I
just found those guys, so I wasjust so captivated by what they
did.
I just love watching them withthe nail bags on.
My mother bought me a littlenail bag for me to go in there
and just hang out with theseguys.

(01:08:45):
She used to make me a sandwich.
She'd make me a sandwich.
I'd say I want a sandwich, ham,cheese, tomato, butter on the
outside, don't toast it.
And I used to grab the sandwich.
I'd run next door up the rampand I'd put it in their Jaffa
making when they were havinglunch and I'd sit down with
Danny and Stuart.
How fucking annoying would Ihave been, you know, at that age

(01:09:10):
.
Um, anyway, so that was amemory.
That was a memory.
And then let's go, let's, let'sgo forward.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
uh, eight, maybe eight years, but that's the
passion we want in people thesedays.
Yeah, like I want people toturn up to my job site now doing
that yeah of course.

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
Of course you know if we go, if we go forward eight
years and, um, you know, wentthrough school, you know, and,
and you know, didn't didn't geta very good education at all.
I was put into a program, um,it was a um, carpentry bill, a
carpentry, cabinet making andjoinery course.
Um, it was out of burwood soI'd travel out there.
I was always late, I didn'tfind it.

(01:09:40):
You know, I still wasn't atthat stage where I was ready to
learn, you know, or or get, getany form of education, and I
used to.
Yes, I attended this programout there.
Unfortunately it was.
The program would have 15 kidsin it and the 14 of the 15 kids
were all in the same basket asme.
School didn't want them.
So we went and did this program.
So you can imagine, you know,the sort of distractions that

(01:10:02):
were there.
So we had to do some workexperience and my mother ended
up contacting my grandfather andsaying you know like we need a
building site for Sean to go outon and do a week's worth of
work experience.
So she got in contact with mygrandfather, larry.

(01:10:23):
He got in contact with abuilder and it was the builder
that built his house.
I didn't know this at the time,so off I went to do work
experience.
I'm sure it would have beenpulling teeth get me out of bed
at seven o'clock, you know.
Anyway, I rock up on thisbuilding site and this is Bill
the builder, you know.
Hey, bill, how are you going?
These are my carpenters Cool,no worries.

(01:10:43):
My carpenter's cool no worries.
You know, at that age I wouldhave been, I don't know, 16 or
something like that, justkicking about on site.
You know, we did the morning,you know, the couple of hours in
the morning, and we sat downfor Smogo and we're sitting down
there at Smogo and the twocarpenters said to me they go,
so your grandfather's LarryHansby, yeah.

(01:11:05):
And I said yeah, yeah, yeah,that's him.
And they go.
And they built on top of theybuilt in Oyster Bay.
And I was like yeah, yeah, Ican't remember exactly how the
conversation went, but they saidyou know, he built in Oyster
Bay and they go, well, you livenext door.
And I was like yeah, and theysaid we remember you.
And I'm like yeah, and theysaid we remember you.

(01:11:26):
And I'm like, straight away, Ijust went, this is Danny, I'm
getting goosebumps.
This is Danny and Stuart, Ididn't know, you know, like I
had no idea, like I'd justforgotten over those years, and
this was the two carpenters thatyou know I was so fascinated
with back in the day.
So whether that had some form ofimpact, you know, in my push

(01:11:48):
forward to construction, Ireally believe it did.
You know, like that, thoselittle key ingredients sort of
make up where you um, whereyou're headed in life, you know,
and so, and then, you know,just just moving forward from
there, I, you know, continuedthe, the pursuit in construction
and and, um, I didn't do iteasy, I didn't have my um, I
didn't have my car license untilI, easy, I didn't have my car
licence until I was 20.

(01:12:08):
I didn't have my car licenceuntil I moved to Canberra.
So I moved to Canberra when Iwas 24, 25.
I did my apprenticeship.
This is going to blow your mindand I'm not embarrassed to talk
about it.
It's a good story and it'ssomething that people can
possibly relate to and learnfrom.
But you know, I used to catch atrain.
So I possibly relate to andlearn from.
But, um, you know, I used tocatch a train, so I said I was

(01:12:29):
living at cronella and I'd geton the train, the first train
quarter past five, with my tools, that tool bag I was talking
about earlier, that 800 tool bag, you know, with the, with all
the makita gear in it this isthat on shoulder had a level in
my hand.

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
Um, it's good to talk about matt, because there's no
excuses no, there's not.

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
And I'd get on the train every morning and it was
always a run.
I'd be running to that train,you know, and my boss would
never, you know, he'd never let.
He picked me up from whereverwe were, usually Martin Place or
you know somewhere around theeastern suburbs because we were
working around there.
But he was always big on you'renot storing your tools in my
ute.
Like you're just not You'regoing to carry them, mate, in my

(01:13:05):
ute.
Like you're just not, you'regonna carry a mate.
And I was like, yeah, okay, Idid that for three years like
loser alert, you know, get yourlicense, mate, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:13:11):
And I just why did you not get your license?

Speaker 1 (01:13:12):
I don't know I, I don't know, I just I can't
actually answer that question.
You know, I was just thisgranola bum, you know, and it
was, it was, it was somethingthat you know I reflect back on
and say why didn't I get my?

Speaker 2 (01:13:25):
I feel like I didn't have the purpose.
You were holding on to a story.

Speaker 1 (01:13:28):
I didn't have the purpose, like I didn't felt I
didn't have the purpose.
You know I was confident.
You know I was a confident kidand everything, but I just never
felt I needed to.
You know I didn't listen topeople, dwayne.
You know, like you know, I hadall these people telling me.
You know my father, you knowyou need to get these things.

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
I think it's really important to share these stories
, mate, because there'll be somany people out there that just
make excuses for everything.
Like you didn't have a license.
You had to carry all your shitto a train.
Catch the train, get picked upby your boss.

Speaker 1 (01:13:58):
Yep, it gets better and it gets a bit illegal.
But I went like from there Idid.
You know, I did my three yearsapprenticeship.
There was I did plumbing.
That's a separate story.
We could be talking forever.
But I did learn from someoneelse in between that and I did
plumbing.
I did try plumbing out for acouple of years.
It was a bathroom.
An opportunity came up to takeover a bathroom business.

(01:14:20):
It was my father.
You know, my father was a biginfluence and he was always,
always.
He was always trying to steerme in the right direction.
You know like it was and I keptgoing down the.
He'd say that path and I'd gothat path.
You know, um, and I, and Ikicked myself.

Speaker 2 (01:14:32):
You know I'm so is he a plumber my father.

Speaker 1 (01:14:35):
No, no, no, he wasn't in the industry at all, you
know, yeah, he's just asportsman.
You know, like he did, heworked for the paper back in the
day.
He was um, he was um he's gonnahate me for not remembering,
but he was, he worked for theDaily Mirror.
He said we'll just go with that, but we I was getting off topic
there so, yeah, I am, yeah, soplumbing.

(01:14:56):
That didn't work out.
Long story short, I moved on andended up, yeah, I found a
carpenter that you know was agreat craftsman.
You know a fellow called CodyCasley and he, you know, was a
great craftsman.
You know a fellow called CodyCasley and he, you know, still
hold him in high regard.
He still we still keep in touchnow and then, you know, it's a
long time between drinks, but hewas a fantastic craftsman.
He wasn't a great businessowner, but he was a very, very

(01:15:17):
good carpenter, extremely goodcarpenter, and he taught me so
much.
And you know, like, moving onfrom that, I had a partner at
the time and her mother lived inSutton, which is on the fringe
of Canberra, on the fringe ofACT, and she owned a property
out there.
She owned a fucking donkey farm, a miniature donkey farm.

(01:15:40):
Right, and it was.
I told you.
The story's good, but so I usedto love going to Sutton and
spending time on the farm.
I loved the rural lifestyle.
You know when my family, likemy sisters in particular, they
always said, you know, you'realways meant for the bush.
You know like I enjoyed, youknow, the beach life and I

(01:16:00):
surfed as a young kid.
You know like I loved all ofthat Cronulla lifestyle.
But deep down, I think you know, my passion was, you know, in
the scrub, you know like out inthe paddocks, and so I ended up
going to.
So my partner at the time, hermother, she wanted to do some
renos on her house, you know.

(01:16:21):
So she wanted me to come up fora couple of weeks and I did go
up for a couple of weeks and itended up turning into about
three or four months because Iended up networking with a
couple of people.
Um, I just, you know the storygoes, I did need to pour some
concrete around the garage and Ineeded a hand.
I need someone to drop theconcrete in.
While I floated, while I screwedit off, and um, and this fella

(01:16:41):
rocked up and he was.
You know, there's only's onlyabout 100, 200 people in this
town, you know there's not many.
And I made the call, I made theinitiative to call up the local
store to ring and find alabourer or a handyman, you know
.
And this man rocked up and thatwas a big turning point in my
life and I made that call, youknow, to get a helping hand.

(01:17:02):
And this fella ended up givingme work around Sutton and he
said you know, do you want to doa deck here?
I know someone that wants abathroom done.
There's a carpenter in town,there's a carpenter in Sutton.
You know what I mean.
Basically, and and I put myhand up I had no fucking idea
what I was doing.
I mean, I had an idea.
I had a rough idea.
I hadn't finished myapprenticeship at this time and
I didn't have a car license.

(01:17:23):
So what I did?
There was a paddock basher andmy girlfriend taught me to drive
up and down Reed Road it wascalled in Sutton, that was the
road we lived in.
Drive up and down there.
I learnt how to drive.
You know it was a manual.
It was an old Brumby, one ofthose Subaru Brumbies paddock

(01:17:43):
basher, mate.
You know you had to fit yourtools in the back of that.
I didn't have many and anyway.
So I learned how to drive and Ijust took off, I loaded my
tools up and this fella Tim, youknow, he loaded me up with work
.
He started throwing work at me,you know, and I loaded up and I

(01:18:05):
just drove around.
You know the area, the region.
I never went into Canberra.
You know I'm driving anunlicensed vehicle, without a
license.
Sorry, I'm driving.
This can go out to the public.
Yeah it's all good, it's allgood, anyway.
So, but then, you know, thingsstarted to change and I started
to evolve.
I started to wake up as I was,you know, um, just gaining that

(01:18:29):
experience.
All the responsibility camewith it.
I'm like, what are you doing?
You got to get your fuckingcarpenter's license and you got
to get a car license.
If you want to do this, you know, like you've, you've, yeah, I'm
24 at this stage, you know, andI'm halfway through my fucking
20s mate, this is awesomebecause, with all the stuff we
started about in this podcast,this is is fantastic, mate this
is why, you know, like I reallypush for apprentices and I

(01:18:49):
really want them to have a goodeducation early on, you know,
and things just evolved fromthere and once I got that car
license and that carpenter'slicense, like that was a massive
milestone for me.
You know, like my family werejust like, wow, sean's got his
car license, you know, and thenthe carpenter's license on top

(01:19:11):
of that was just, you know, likeit was a big deal, you know,
and now when I look back at it,you know, like it it was just
it's it's the essentials in life.
But you know, it was a bigmovement for me, you know, like
it was a big change and it wasthe change that I needed to grow
up and and so where did you gofrom there?
so I started working for.

(01:19:33):
So this member I was talkingwe're talking before the podcast
about, um, our, um, you know,our hobbies, etc.
Under Land Rover.
So this fella that rocked up,tim, as I was talking about, he,
uh, he rocked up in a bus atold Land Rover Discovery.
I ended up buying that, youknow.
So I bought that vehicle, I gotit registered and then I took
off into town and, um, andstarted working for local

(01:19:56):
builders, um, and then slowly,you know, just started
connecting the dots, connectingwith people, um, and listening
to people, like I really didbecause I had no idea what I was
doing in this big wide world,you know, and I was on my did
because I had no idea what I wasdoing in this big wide world,
you know, and I was on my own.
It was the first time that Iwas not being cradled by my
family.
I wasn't being cradled by, youknow, the, the bosses that I had

(01:20:17):
back in Sydney.
You know the ones that woulddrive me around, you know, with
with, you know, like, yeah, withthe patience that they had and
I thank them very much for itbecause, you know, people were
patient with me.
Maybe it was my personality,because I've always been a
friendly, friendly person, youknow, and I've always wanted to
do well.
I've just been, just was a bitum, just didn't have.
I don't know about the energy,it's just the energy and the

(01:20:38):
drive.
You know the, the um, so but youknow that all changed when I,
when I developed that um, youknow that that responsibility,
um, then I started to change andI started listening.
I started listening to people.
But you know that all changedthen.
When I developed that you know,that responsibility, then I
started to change and I startedlistening to people.
There were builders, you know,and I'd start looking up to
people and go well, you knowlike, and people saw stuff in me
you know like I talk about.

(01:20:59):
You know there's a good familythat I'm close to.
Now I'm staying at.
You met Nathan last night.
So he's from, he's got a good,a very broad background in
construction and it all stemsfrom his father, greg, and Greg,
you know, he was awarded 45years of the annual NBA dinner,
you know, the other night, onlylast week, and I was fortunate

(01:21:21):
enough to see him because he wasjust such a mentor of mine.
He believed in me, like Gregbelieved in me.
Greg's a craftsman.
He's like you and I, craigStewart, he's that sort of breed
and he could see that I'd beentaught by somebody who was a
passionate carpenter because I'dloved it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:41):
So we were talking about Craig Stewart last night.
You've never met him in person.
I've never met him personally.

Speaker 1 (01:21:45):
Remember I was supposed to reach out to him
last night.
You've never met him in person.
I've never met him personally.
You reached out to him for me,remember?
I was supposed to reach out tohim last night.

Speaker 2 (01:21:48):
It just didn't happen , but you reached out after
hearing me talk about him on ourpodcast.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So he came about.
Craig Stewart Big onlinebuddies Mate.

Speaker 1 (01:21:55):
I'm one of his biggest fangirls behind the
screen, you know yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:22:02):
Online buddy.
He said buddy, but.

Speaker 1 (01:22:06):
It's not like such, it's not.

Speaker 3 (01:22:08):
Yeah, well look, yeah , no, he you know like the power
of connecting with great people, the power of connection.

Speaker 1 (01:22:15):
You know, like he, I follow him closely and to the
point where we haveconversations we just Just
little conversations in text,you know, and he's always
supporting what I do and Isupport what he does.

Speaker 2 (01:22:26):
You know, um, he's, you know, 1500 kilometers away
you know where, where to, fromwhat you've just talked about to
getting your builder's licenseso that came about just through
carpentry growth.

Speaker 1 (01:22:39):
So, like I said, I got my carpenter's license.
I ended up finishing it here inthat sorry here, but there in
Canberra, and then it was.
I think it was just through thegrowth of carpentry.
I took on an apprentice youknow back to a pup who I was
talking about before he was my,he was my first apprentice and
then he saw a lot of growth inthe company, like he was a lot

(01:23:02):
of help, you know, like hedoesn't know it either.
You know, like he's a very sortof you know he's that sort of,
he's that nature, but he reallyhelped a lot in the growth of
the business.
You know, by just being asupport.
He was the rock, he was thehard big rock, you know.
And as we grew, you know, theresponsibility grew, the
ambition grew and I wanted tostart tackling projects, you

(01:23:25):
know, on our own, doing theextension, reno.
That required BAs, you knowthings like that, which required
licensing.
So I crunched out a builder'slicense.
I ended up doing it through theCapital Training Institute.
It was an express course.
You had to have a minimum ofseven years experience in the

(01:23:45):
industry.
So it was a fast track course.
And now, looking back at it, Ithink I don't want to sound
boastful here, but I had apretty good understanding of the
construction industry at thispoint.
There were five of us in thatcourse sorry, five of us out of
20, say that completed thecourse and we were all
carpenters.
Yeah, because, um, you know,they were carpenters then the

(01:24:09):
majority of their time.
Well, I'm very biased, I'm avery biased carpenter, but you
know, and there's plenty in thefield that you know like can,
can, can, do it as well incustom homes.

Speaker 2 (01:24:17):
I mean custom homes.
Carpenters are on site.
My custom house is glorifiedadministration yeah, yeah, but,
um, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:24:23):
So I ended up up getting the.
Once I got my builder's license, you know, I had a license to
grow.
That was it, you know.
And then I started gettingreally involved with who I was,
who the brand was I had a like,so it was Hardwick Carpentry.
Before you know, you sort ofevolve and you have different
names and my first name this isa laugh my first name was SH

(01:24:46):
Carpentry and my sister shelives abroad, she lives in Czech
Republic, and I don't know ifit was by phone at this point or
where she was, because she'sbeen living abroad for a long
time and here and there.
But she did say to me one dayshe said don't you reckon it
sounds like shithouse carpentryJust ruined it, you know.
So I had to change my namethere.

(01:25:07):
So I rebranded to HardwickCarpentry and that worked
throughout the period of doingcarpentry work, but it only got
me so far, you know.
And then branded to HardwickProjects and that's when I
started to really embraceHardwick's as a brand, you know.
And in the last couple of years, you know, I've really taken

(01:25:30):
that on and been very aware ofwhat I'm putting.

Speaker 2 (01:25:32):
Your identity.

Speaker 1 (01:25:33):
My identity.
That's right, you know, andI've, since, you know, been
going through some businesscoaching with a good friend.
I mean back to the Spencers.
You know, like Greg I wastalking about Nathan he's always
been a support, and then nowhis brother, mick, is my
business coach you know, so thatfamily you know like has been

(01:25:55):
great support.
But he's really, you know, put,you know this.
You know just this distilled inme.
You know, like you've got abrand, this is your brand and
you need to.
You know, like you in me, youknow, like that you've you've
got a brand, this is your brandand you need to.

Speaker 2 (01:26:09):
You know, like you gotta make a personal connection
.
It can't be about just being abuilder that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:26:13):
Yeah, what's um, what's some of the biggest
challenges you've had in beingin starting your own business um
, look, I think, like always,like staffing, like is is one
you know, like there was at onepoint there I did have, I think,
um, he had five or sixcarpenters, you know, and, um,
although we were a good familyof carpenters, you know like it

(01:26:34):
was sometimes, you know, hard toto manage and and I was
spending, um, you know this isprobably one of my greatest
challenges is being able toremove myself from from
carpentry, you know, for here.

Speaker 2 (01:26:47):
Yeah, you know I'm almost getting a little bit,
yeah I think it's a challengewith any trade like yeah, I love
carpentry, but I don't get todo it anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:26:56):
You know I when I say I don't get to do it anymore,
there's, there's opportunities,but I, just you, you fall behind
too quickly if you, if you jumpon the tools because, for um,
whether I'm a simple-mindedcreature or not, if I'm hanging
a door, I'm hanging a door.
I'm not worried about thecontracts administration that's
getting left behind over here,or just the business.

(01:27:18):
Let's just call it the business.

Speaker 2 (01:27:20):
I think it's really good that you point that out,
because it's generally staff orpeople don't know their numbers,
they're not making money, butit actually is a big challenge.

Speaker 1 (01:27:29):
For me it was the step back, you know, and I spent
years, years and years beingthat hybrid version of a builder
.
You know that would be mate.
I'd be chasing me tail becauseI was spending way too much time
on the tools and trying to.
And when I'm on the tools, youknow it's.
I'm on the tools, you know it's, it's, it's.
I'm calling the shots, I'mrunning the crew, I'm loving it.

(01:27:50):
You know I'm fucking.
You know when you're running.
You're running when we'retalking about slowing down.
But you know, like you, whenyou're in that mindset of onsite
and everyone's just crackingaway and it's a good's your
target.

Speaker 2 (01:28:09):
Let's go and know what you've got done, where it's
.
I miss that, you know like I'vegot.

Speaker 1 (01:28:14):
I've still, you know, like it's.
It's my.
The screen, the home screen onmy phone, is a project that I
did um back for greg spencer andthat would have been five, six
years ago and it was just of theframework and I used to.
I used to take that much prideI'd wait until everybody went
from site so I'd be the last onethere, just so I could walk

(01:28:34):
around and clean the buildingsite.
I had an obsession with, with,with, cleaning, but you know,
cleaning the building site andthen just putting, you putting
you you know, resting your armon a noggin and just taking it
all in before it gets sheetedbecause when you get, when it
gets sheeted, it transforms.
You know, and and you know Ihate the shading.

(01:28:55):
I like seeing all thecamaraderie work, but you know
like and just take that momentto, to take it all in.
I don't really get that anymoreyou know that's.
That's one thing that I, youknow I found challenging to, and
I've only moved away from that,you know, over the last sort of
18 months.

Speaker 2 (01:29:10):
Well, um we'll start to wrap it up, mate, because
it's getting to about 35 degreesoutside this year, let alone
what it is in here but um, yep,we're gonna have to have you
back for round two, mate,because we haven't really
touched.
There's a lot of other stuff,like there's plenty to crack out
.
Before we wrap it up, can wejust try and keep it short.
Like I want to talk about yourroutine, like you look, because
routine's huge.

Speaker 1 (01:29:31):
I talk about all the time on it.

Speaker 2 (01:29:32):
Routine is everything run us through as quick as you
can just a day yeah, just forthe day yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:29:37):
So I mean, the daily routine is, you know, up early.
It's generally, you know, phonegoing off at 4, 30, not know,
not too far after that gettingup, and it's usually, you know
I've got my partner.
She's pregnant at the moment,so yeah, she's.
You're either getting up oryou're getting out, that's all.
You're getting back to bed oryou're getting up, but you know.

(01:29:58):
So yeah, very early.
You know I do like to have atleast a couple of hours in the
morning.
You know I enjoy that time.
I think there's a lot to be saidabout a slow morning.
Now, what I call a slow morningis getting up, you know, open
the laptop, sort of refreshingyourself on the day, before
catching up on emails.
You know that's a good time toplug into your social media,

(01:30:20):
which I've started doing on thecomputer, so it's not on the
phone.
So you open up the browsers onthe computer, you can respond to
your comments, all that sort ofstuff.
Taking the time in the morningto do that when you, when your
brain's fresh, um, and then onceI'm out the door, you know like
it's, it's construction all day.
So you know it's it's.
We've got an office in fish week, you know.
So we uh got breakfast icebaths, yeah.

(01:30:42):
So breakfast is um, breakfastis, it depends.
I do enjoy the gym, I enjoymuscle growth, I enjoy all the
principles about it, I enjoy thediscipline to the gym and so,
yeah, my diet it all sort ofintegrates, doesn't it?
Because there's no point intrying to grow or to have that

(01:31:07):
discipline reaction withoutsomething else.
You know that sort of feeds,that beast, you know, and that's
food, you know.
So diet's a big thing.
And you know my breakfast, youknow.
At the moment, you know I'msort of into a phase, we're
heading into that summer phase,and trying to look sharp is
always, you know, I'm consciousof that.
I think everybody should be.

Speaker 2 (01:31:27):
You're looking pretty sharp, mate Presentation's,
everything.
I'm pretty envious.
I need to fucking start workingout.

Speaker 1 (01:31:32):
Stop it.
You might get that Tinder date,but you know like so at the
moment I'm into the egg whites.
I have six egg whites and onewhole egg and that's about it.
You know, like it's prettybare's pretty bare a bit of salt
and pepper and a bit of parsley.
But I have a routine where mymeals are all calculated for the
week.
So Sunday afternoon it's alevel-up podcast, Sunday

(01:31:54):
planning, and I do meal prep.
So Isabel and I she helps me dothe meal prep.
When I say it, it's just a goodexercise to do together.
She's a hairdresser, she worksa Saturday, so we have Sunday.
That's pretty much the only day, so we like to spend time with
each other.
Like I said, we're about tohave our first child together.

(01:32:14):
Congratulations, Mate.
I'm just yeah, yeah, don't getme started on it because, I'll
cry.
I'm telling you I'm not startingon it because I'll cry, but
yeah, we are so excited We'vejust got into that phase of
enjoying it.
But yeah, so having that mealprep, it's all calculated, all
the macros, I've got them all inline.
So you know it's the Monday,tuesday, wednesday and I don't

(01:32:35):
have to think that's the bigthing.
I don't have to think aboutfood during the week because
I've done it all.
On Sunday I applied three hoursto thinking about the food.
I don't have to apply any brainpower to that, you're getting
up.

Speaker 2 (01:32:46):
You're smashing it out early.
I personally believe the time.
If you can get an hour in themorning, you'll get more work
done than you'll get in sevenhours during the day 100%.

Speaker 1 (01:32:56):
Those hours are valuable and I think it's
valuable because everybody'sdormant, Whether they're up as
well they're in.
You know, and I try and promotethat to everybody, Get up and
have those hours in the morningto yourself, you know, because
the rest of the day until you goto bed.
Pretty much it's just on, youknow Then we're off to work.

(01:33:17):
So you're still spending a bitof time on site On the tools.
You know it's very minimal.
You know I did a day on site.
It was a couple of weeks ago.
I smacked my head and sort ofgave it up but no, it was on a
brace um.
But no, I, you know, like I'vegot a very um, I've got a
extremely um, you know, a goodteam um.

(01:33:39):
So you know, I don't, I don'thave that urge to get out there.
I think that was a problem Ihad before was just the control
but but yeah, so I'm generally,you know, just floating about
doing the, doing the builder runmate.
You know you're at the officeone minute you're out on site,
the next you're out seeingsuppliers.
I've really been trying to tonetwork a lot more at the moment

(01:34:00):
.
So you know I'm really trying.
You know like I'm doing well atthat.
You know like talking to a lotof people, a lot of industry
bodies as well, yeah, so youknow, I think if you do your
eight hours a day, I stillbelieve in that.
You know eight hours, ninehours of work, if you do that
five days a week, you've doneyour week right.
I'm very much on that andthat's routine, you know.
And then after work it's a gymsession.

(01:34:24):
So once again, it's acalculated gym session for each
group of muscle group.

Speaker 2 (01:34:29):
I hear you do it in the afternoons, mate, I've got
it all.
I can't do extra in theafternoon If I don't do it in
the morning, mate I can't not doit.

Speaker 1 (01:34:36):
I have to do that every day.
I mean I spend 30 hours a weeksitting in a chair like in the
office.
I've got myself our officemanager.
She's part-time, she works, youknow, minimum sort of 24 hours
a week, and then we've got anestimator as well.
So between us, you know likethere's a lot of demand in the

(01:34:57):
administration side of abuilding business.
You know that.
You know I was having a chatwith Camille up there earlier
and I'm just in awe that she can, you know she can look after
all that administration on herown.
You know it's it's amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:35:10):
She's a machine, mate .
She's a machine.
She keeps the show running.

Speaker 1 (01:35:13):
So, but you know, like it's, it's, I think, I
think, routine and structure at.
You know, a lot of this cameabout after I was saying before,
you know, when I had my backsurgery and I decided to, you
know not.
You know, when I had my backsurgery and I decided to, you
know, not.
You know, not give up drinking,but you know I don't really
drink anymore, trying to justhave a clearer mind and all of
that, you know, like all of thatmobility that I lost during

(01:35:35):
that process of having umsurgery, you know, I, um, I was
told I need to have a core and abum, you know, and I took it to
the next level let's just saythat but I wouldn't have it any
other way.
I won't change.
You know, I really won't change.
I mean the exercises.
You know.
Another thing, big thing on themorning routine is the first

(01:35:55):
thing I do is exercise becauseI've got um, an extreme case of
arthritis in my spine.
So I wake up and I'm like afucking surfboard, you know yeah
so I've got to, um, I've got tounwind myself in the morning,
but um, but yeah look I you knowroutine, routines, everything
just for your mind, body andsoul.

Speaker 2 (01:36:11):
I really believe in it, you know well.
Uh, oh, mate, I'm, I'mcompletely on board with the
yeah and it's becoming, butpeople are waking up to that.

Speaker 1 (01:36:18):
You know there's a lot of, you know a lot of
therapies out there now thatpeople are.
You know, I think consistency,though, like people just have to
have the consistency COVID'sbeen the best thing for the
world, mate.

Speaker 2 (01:36:27):
It's opened people's eyes up to what's really going
on.

Speaker 1 (01:36:29):
Oh look, there's a lot of advantages and
disadvantages to that, Dwayne,but that's another conversation.
We'll come back around to that.

Speaker 2 (01:36:35):
But, mate, well, I really appreciate you coming up
here.
It's been an absolute pleasurehaving you.
I really appreciate it I feelthis podcast just dropping bombs
, mate, like this is a reallygood moment.

Speaker 1 (01:36:45):
I really appreciate it.
Like I said, I've beenlistening to you for a long time
.
I believe in this movement ofwhat you're trying to recreate.

Speaker 2 (01:36:54):
So what's level up mean to you, mate?

Speaker 1 (01:36:56):
Level up means future to me.
You know, creating a betterfuture.
You know that's exactly whatwe're here to do on planet earth
.
You know, whether you're afucking spider or you're a human
, you're here to survive and theway to survive is, you know,
all about making sure that thatfuture is is a better
environment for the day before.
You know, and that's exactlywhat you are doing, you know, in

(01:37:16):
this movement, in construction.
You know a way to uh wrap it up,mate it really it really is,
and um, and I couldn't yeah, Ican't thank you enough for being
here.
You know I came on this podcast.
I've been a ball of nerves,mate.
But, you know, I can say, youknow, you create a very
comfortable environment for usand I'm going to say on us on

(01:37:37):
behalf of everybody.
You know we can listen, we canabsorb information from you,
Like what you say is.
You know, I apply in my day,and I think there's a lot to be
said about that.
So don't stop what you're doing, mate, because I appreciate it,
mate.
Yeah, do not stop what you'redoing.
You know, give up dpconstructions before you give up
this okay, yeah, and if youwant to have me, on again.

(01:38:01):
I'd love coming up toqueensland mate, so yeah I might
have a baby with me next time.
Stay tuned, we've got, I knowthe missus know she wanted to
come up and be here but she hadto work.
So you know she's like I said,she's a great supporter, she's a
great supporter of me and yeah,so next time on the podcast
she'll have the time, you know,to come up.

Speaker 2 (01:38:20):
We'll definitely be the last time, mate, that's for
sure.

Speaker 1 (01:38:23):
Please do yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:38:24):
Guys, look as always.
Really appreciate you listening.
Please subscribe, share withyour friends.
We want to help continuing tomake this Australia's number one
construction podcast.
But the whole purpose, as youjust heard from Sean this
podcast is all about buildingand creating a new building
industry so that everyone in itcan thrive.
So continue to help us do thatand look forward to seeing you

(01:38:46):
on the next one, Are you?

Speaker 1 (01:38:47):
thrive.
So continue to help us do thatand look forward to seeing you
on the next one.
Are you ready to build smarter,live better and enjoy life?
Then head over to live likebuildcom forward.

Speaker 2 (01:38:52):
Slash, elevate to get started everything discussed
during the level up podcast withme, duane pierce, is based
solely on my own personalexperiences and those
experiences of my guests.

(01:39:12):
The information, opinions andrecommendations presented in
this podcast are for generalinformation only, and any
reliance on the informationprovided in this podcast is done
at your own risk.
We recommend that you obtainyour own professional advice in
respect to the topics discussedduring this podcast.

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